Speaker 1: Welcome to desperately devoted think of us as your favorite
Speaker 1: neighbors as we chat about life and relationships.
Speaker 2: All while we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.
Speaker 3: I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen.
Speaker 2: And I'm Emerson Tunny.
Speaker 3: So here we are again, because as we know, sometimes
Speaker 3: the episode of the week is just so jam packed
Speaker 3: and chock full of interesting things that we just can't
Speaker 3: squeeze it all into one episode. So, I know, for
Speaker 3: this one for episode eighteen. So this major theme popped
Speaker 3: up to all three of us, which was this kind
Speaker 3: of age old thing that happens with women, specifically about
Speaker 3: you know, equating beauty with intelligence or aging with somehow
Speaker 3: not being beautiful anymore, and all of the ways in
Speaker 3: which we struggle to be perceived as full people in
Speaker 3: the world. And this popped out so much. You have Gabrielle,
Speaker 3: you know, in her storyline she mentioned she has a
Speaker 3: line to Carlos about how he you know, she he
Speaker 3: might think that because she's pretty, she's therefore stupid. And
Speaker 3: then it comes up later when she tells John in
Speaker 3: that scene like whatever you do, just don't call me beautiful,
Speaker 3: which was a kind of haunting line for her to say,
Speaker 3: and Sophie, Susan's mom comes in and has this hang
Speaker 3: up clearly about aging and wanting to be perceived as
Speaker 3: Susan's sister and not her mother. And I just think
Speaker 3: there is so much to really jump into here, and
Speaker 3: I thought the three of us, being of course three
Speaker 3: different generations, we might have some really interesting conversations that
Speaker 3: can come up. So I wanted to talk about beauty
Speaker 3: standards and how we feel about where we stand today,
Speaker 3: but certainly how we all felt with the messaging we
Speaker 3: had in our own individual generation.
Speaker 2: I am so glad that we were doing this X
Speaker 2: Y Z because I think beauty standards and I mean
Speaker 2: obviously continue to be an interesting topic that evolves, I
Speaker 2: think from a beauty standard perspective. In my generation, at least,
Speaker 2: I feel like there is much more, thank God of
Speaker 2: a move away from the kind of like Barbie dimension
Speaker 2: beauty standard proportions. I even think about in high school,
Speaker 2: the way a lot of girls that I grew up with,
Speaker 2: and even myself like, we wore a lot of eyeliner
Speaker 2: and makeup, and now I feel like there's such a
Speaker 2: swing toward wearing less makeup or no makeup and kind
Speaker 2: of more comfortable clothes, and the skinny jeans are out,
Speaker 2: and I love a mom jean or an even bag
Speaker 2: ear jean. And I think there's kind of also more
Speaker 2: integration of androgyny in femininity and kind of incorporating the masculine,
Speaker 2: and that is a style that I feel very at
Speaker 2: home and comfortable in, and so I'm really appreciative when
Speaker 2: I see, you know, high fashion brands like Mew Mew
Speaker 2: or Prada, or when I see other celebrities out in
Speaker 2: the public eye like Kendall Jenner or Jennifer Lauren kind
Speaker 2: of exemplify this more androgynous style. Drew Barrymore, I'm actually
Speaker 2: wearing the Drew Barrymore sweatshirt that we got when we
Speaker 2: were on the show promoting this podcast. And I think
Speaker 2: she is another great example of someone who is kind
Speaker 2: of pushing to have more embracing definitions of what it
Speaker 2: means to be a woman and what it means to
Speaker 2: be feminine in terms of beauty being equated with intelligence.
Speaker 2: Though this is something that I actually as a young
Speaker 2: woman working in the industry behind the camera, not as
Speaker 2: an actor, where obviously there are a lot of different
Speaker 2: types of beauty standards, but as a writer, I come
Speaker 2: up against feeling like sometimes I am judged as a
Speaker 2: more attractive young woman that I am not going to
Speaker 2: be as intelligent of a writer. And obviously my job
Speaker 2: is all about my intellect. It has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with what I look like. And I actually this made
Speaker 2: me think of a story about two summers ago. I
Speaker 2: was in London with my mom for the Coraline was
Speaker 2: celebrating its fifteen year anniversary, and we went to dinner
Speaker 2: with a lot of filmmakers and people who had been
Speaker 2: involved in the film, and we had My mom and
Speaker 2: I had both been kind of made up because there
Speaker 2: had been a little bit of a red carpet at
Speaker 2: the exhibit, and I don't really wear makeup like that
Speaker 2: in my day to day life, but I had, you know,
Speaker 2: I'd had my makeup done and I had my hair done,
Speaker 2: and I looked a little bit more glam than I
Speaker 2: normally do. And we were at lunch and the wife
Speaker 2: of one of the filmmakers there I was talking to
Speaker 2: about being a writer and she goes, well, I hope
Speaker 2: you don't look like this when you go into meetings,
Speaker 2: because no one will take you seriously.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow, And it really stuck with me because it made
Speaker 2: me feels so kind of small and insecure and was
Speaker 2: taking honestly in a way that Carlos does with Gabby,
Speaker 2: taking my looks and implying that no one will take
Speaker 2: me seriously as a writer, which is my career if
Speaker 2: I present as more glamorous in certain settings.
Speaker 1: And it is.
Speaker 2: It was a very It was really a comment that
Speaker 2: has stuck with me since then and is something I
Speaker 2: think about.
Speaker 1: Well, I you know, I guess I have a lot
Speaker 1: to say about this. I mean, just you know, being
Speaker 1: really young, before I was an act or anything. In
Speaker 1: high school, I clearly remember, in fact, I remember the dress.
Speaker 1: So I went away the summer of my sophomore year
Speaker 1: at high school with like no breast, and I came
Speaker 1: back as a junior with little, like with you know,
Speaker 1: size B breast.
Speaker 2: So they will but she says little, because I'm weren't
Speaker 2: they weren't little?
Speaker 1: No. I was gonna say, yeah, they I said little,
Speaker 1: But they weren't. They were like a be a bee,
Speaker 1: a noticeable, physical, noticeable change. And I had this yellow
Speaker 1: kind of polyester dress from the eighties and and all
Speaker 1: the boys. All the seniors suddenly noticed me like I suddenly,
Speaker 1: and I felt horrible about it because I couldn't make
Speaker 1: sense of why did nobody talk to me last year,
Speaker 1: and now that I have breasts, everybody seems to be interested.
Speaker 1: And it made me feel really ashamed of my breast.
Speaker 1: I didn't like my breasts. I didn't I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be known for that. Ironically, I know, I was like,
Speaker 1: wait a second, yeah, wait a second. Cut to my
Speaker 1: career and I would say, you know, it's interesting. I've
Speaker 1: actually heard Pamela Anderson talk a little bit about this,
Speaker 1: and you know, we all know that she's had her
Speaker 1: you know, reinvention of herself and her whole career, and
Speaker 1: a big part of that has been her exposing her
Speaker 1: face literally with no makeup, but also like her persona is,
Speaker 1: just to be who she is. And I really applaud
Speaker 1: what she's talked about that allowing herself to be who
Speaker 1: she is kind of for the first time in her life.
Speaker 3: And blaming her beauty and her body as her And.
Speaker 1: I definitely feel that, you know, most I guess I
Speaker 1: can just speak for myself. I never thought I was beautiful,
Speaker 1: Like I know, there are people who rightfully sow and
Speaker 1: I kind of wish I had this confidence who have
Speaker 1: looked in the mirror of their whole lives and I'm
Speaker 1: not even saying it like with arrogance, they've just looked
Speaker 1: in the mirror and they've been like, I'm beautiful. I'm
Speaker 1: a model, or I'm an actor, I'm a beautiful person,
Speaker 1: and I go through the world and you know, I'm beautiful.
Speaker 1: I never felt that way about myself, which I you know,
Speaker 1: it's is a regret. I mean, I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: there's nothing heroic about that. It's just my personal self
Speaker 1: esteem issues. I never felt that way, but the world,
Speaker 1: especially in my professional world, reflected on me that I
Speaker 1: was beautiful and you know, on the cover of magazines
Speaker 1: or was the sexiest woman in whatever how long you know, blah.
Speaker 2: The world that was that headline.
Speaker 1: Okay, this the world, right, So something I never asked
Speaker 1: to be reflected at me and honestly wasn't particularly comfortable with.
Speaker 1: Then as I age got taken away from me, like
Speaker 1: you're not beautiful anymore. Now you're just old. Now you're
Speaker 1: just didn't you know, you didn't age well whatever that means,
Speaker 1: Like like I haven't done it right. So there's this
Speaker 1: whole narrative about the exterior of me that I was
Speaker 1: never a part of, but I've had to live with.
Speaker 1: And it didn't include at all my intellect or my
Speaker 1: talent or what I might have potentially been capable of.
Speaker 1: And it is why my number one favorite thing about
Speaker 1: being sixty is that I feel like, for the first
Speaker 1: time in my life, people are going to have to
Speaker 1: look at me and deal with me and judge me
Speaker 1: for who I am and not what I look like,
Speaker 1: and that I don't know if it's going to work
Speaker 1: in my favor or not. I don't know if I'll
Speaker 1: get acting jobs that I like. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'll make any money. I don't know what the result
Speaker 1: is going to be. But what I do know is
Speaker 1: that the person I am when I walk into a
Speaker 1: room and I audition or I have a meeting with somebody,
Speaker 1: it is much less concerned with what the exterior of
Speaker 1: my face and body look like.
Speaker 3: That has to probably feel very freeing.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's freeing. Like I said, it may
Speaker 1: not work, you know, may nobody may be interested in
Speaker 1: me while I'm not quote unquote useful and beautiful, but
Speaker 1: I hope that they are because I think that I
Speaker 1: have a lot to offer. I think I have more
Speaker 1: to offer. I think I've more offered of course, yeah
Speaker 1: when I was younger.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and you're absolutely beautiful. You are very incredibly beautiful,
Speaker 3: always have been, always will be. I think that's my opinion.
Speaker 3: But I think I just feel like there's there's we
Speaker 3: could talk about this forever. I'm sure it will come
Speaker 3: up in future episodes as well, because of course it's
Speaker 3: always relevant the idea, especially when you.
Speaker 1: Were the show had five women who were all pretty
Speaker 1: as their leads.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, exactly, And and I just think, like I remember,
Speaker 3: I just I was thinking a lot about how this
Speaker 3: show premiered in two thousand and four, and another show
Speaker 3: that was on at this time in two thousand and
Speaker 3: four was a reality show called The Swan. Do you
Speaker 3: guys remember this show at all?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: What is this? Oh? Enlighten us reality Queen?
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I, oh my gosh, I don't deserve
Speaker 3: that title, but I will say The Swan. I'm really
Speaker 3: glad that you guys don't remember this or don't know
Speaker 3: about it, because your jaws are going to hit the floor.
Speaker 3: The Swan was a reality show that took women who
Speaker 3: felt like they were not beautiful because society has told
Speaker 3: them they're not beautiful, just you know, regular regular women
Speaker 3: out in the world, not actresses, not models, just women.
Speaker 3: And then they incorporated them getting plastic surgery over the
Speaker 3: course of several months, and then then they all competed
Speaker 3: against each other in a beauty pageant. What the fuck
Speaker 3: exactly they are? Jaw show. That show was on the
Speaker 3: air in two thousand and fourteen year old bab I know,
Speaker 3: I know, and as a fourteen year old girl, I
Speaker 3: remember watching this show and being so horrified that not
Speaker 3: only was the messaging like change your physical appearance through surgery,
Speaker 3: which again like, of course if you want to, and
Speaker 3: you can, like whatever, do what you want to be happy,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't that. It was them as a show
Speaker 3: producing this saying you come on the show, We're going
Speaker 3: to change your appearance, and then we're gonna make you
Speaker 3: compete against each other. I'm like, so sad for the
Speaker 3: wh I know. So I think that show got two
Speaker 3: seasons as well. So I like to think that we've
Speaker 3: come a long way. I do think we're in an
Speaker 3: interesting time now where there's a little bit of a
Speaker 3: homogenized look.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, between ozempic and eyelifts. I like ozempic
Speaker 2: and eyelifts. Literally, I feel like everyone in Hollywood suddenly
Speaker 2: looks the same again in the last two years. I
Speaker 2: don't Yeah, I don't love it.
Speaker 1: No, I don't love it either, But it is interesting
Speaker 1: that you kind of have these two lanes. You've got,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna call it the Pamela Anderson lane
Speaker 1: because I think she deserves, you know, the street title.
Speaker 1: And then you've got still what is you know, the
Speaker 1: well the Ozempic I Live lane, you know, and plenty
Speaker 1: of celebrities out there doubling down on that they're skinnier
Speaker 1: than ever.
Speaker 2: I have been pretty disappointed to see some actors now
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say like celebrities, because I think
Speaker 2: that is a difference, but some really incredible actors whose
Speaker 2: work I love and who I think have really unique looks.
Speaker 2: I would say in the last year, I don't want
Speaker 2: to say fall into the trap, because I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to have judgment about whatever you want to do that
Speaker 2: makes you happy, but choose to go down the lane
Speaker 2: of obviously altering things on their face to look more
Speaker 2: homogenized with other celebrities who maybe aren't actually actors. And
Speaker 2: I think, as an artist and as a writer who
Speaker 2: aspires to write scripts that I imagine actors embodying, there is
Speaker 2: a loss. There's actually kind of a great loss for
Speaker 2: me of some people I grew up really idolizing, who
Speaker 2: have changed some things about themselves and I think look
Speaker 2: less like real people.
Speaker 1: Well, I wonder my parting words I want, you know,
Speaker 1: I wonder who to blame, and I I guess we'll
Speaker 1: ultimately like have to blame ourselves. I mean, I sometimes
Speaker 1: do think that like we've created our own monster. You know.
Speaker 1: Uh it's you know, with our purchases, with you know,
Speaker 1: what we tune into, like you know, we make things
Speaker 1: popular and then we create the monster. So I think
Speaker 1: we we have the power that if if if you
Speaker 1: know it isn't what you want, don't buy it, you know,
Speaker 1: stop consuming it, stop consuming it. I do wonder if
Speaker 1: like you know, all the tuning, all the all the filters,
Speaker 1: like if it made people it's brain changed and then
Speaker 1: they looked in the mirror and went like, oh I
Speaker 1: need a fill for my face, And I'm so used
Speaker 1: to looking at myself with the filter. Now it don't
Speaker 1: look like like I. But again, we've done it to ourselves.
Speaker 1: You know, we've done it to ourselves, and it's sad.
Speaker 1: So because I'm here to say, we're all beautiful for
Speaker 1: who we are and whatever that means to be beautiful.
Speaker 1: I think being beautiful is about being a good person.
Speaker 1: I hope that's what counts.
Speaker 3: I agree, I am all right. Well, thanks for chatting
Speaker 3: about this.
Speaker 1: I know there's more. I feel like we go on.
Speaker 1: We'll have to, We'll have to do this one again.
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think, let us know, hope
Speaker 1: we should keep talking about inner beauty and outer beauty.
Speaker 2: And if you have things to add, if you have
Speaker 2: perspectives to add, right to us. We'll pick it up
Speaker 2: in our next X y Z about beauty. Yes we will, okay,
Speaker 2: because we are desperately devoted to you.
Speaker 1: Absolutely see next week five