WEBVTT - Dig DeepXYZ: Don’t Hate Me Because I’m Beautiful 

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to desperately devoted think of us as your favorite

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<v Speaker 1>neighbors as we chat about life and relationships.

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<v Speaker 2>All while we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Emerson Tunny.

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<v Speaker 3>So here we are again, because as we know, sometimes

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<v Speaker 3>the episode of the week is just so jam packed

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<v Speaker 3>and chock full of interesting things that we just can't

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<v Speaker 3>squeeze it all into one episode. So, I know, for

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<v Speaker 3>this one for episode eighteen. So this major theme popped

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<v Speaker 3>up to all three of us, which was this kind

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<v Speaker 3>of age old thing that happens with women, specifically about

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<v Speaker 3>you know, equating beauty with intelligence or aging with somehow

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<v Speaker 3>not being beautiful anymore, and all of the ways in

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<v Speaker 3>which we struggle to be perceived as full people in

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<v Speaker 3>the world. And this popped out so much. You have Gabrielle,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, in her storyline she mentioned she has a

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<v Speaker 3>line to Carlos about how he you know, she he

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<v Speaker 3>might think that because she's pretty, she's therefore stupid. And

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<v Speaker 3>then it comes up later when she tells John in

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<v Speaker 3>that scene like whatever you do, just don't call me beautiful,

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<v Speaker 3>which was a kind of haunting line for her to say,

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<v Speaker 3>and Sophie, Susan's mom comes in and has this hang

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<v Speaker 3>up clearly about aging and wanting to be perceived as

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<v Speaker 3>Susan's sister and not her mother. And I just think

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<v Speaker 3>there is so much to really jump into here, and

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<v Speaker 3>I thought the three of us, being of course three

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<v Speaker 3>different generations, we might have some really interesting conversations that

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<v Speaker 3>can come up. So I wanted to talk about beauty

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<v Speaker 3>standards and how we feel about where we stand today,

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<v Speaker 3>but certainly how we all felt with the messaging we

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<v Speaker 3>had in our own individual generation.

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<v Speaker 2>I am so glad that we were doing this X

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<v Speaker 2>Y Z because I think beauty standards and I mean

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<v Speaker 2>obviously continue to be an interesting topic that evolves, I

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<v Speaker 2>think from a beauty standard perspective. In my generation, at least,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like there is much more, thank God of

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<v Speaker 2>a move away from the kind of like Barbie dimension

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<v Speaker 2>beauty standard proportions. I even think about in high school,

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<v Speaker 2>the way a lot of girls that I grew up with,

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<v Speaker 2>and even myself like, we wore a lot of eyeliner

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<v Speaker 2>and makeup, and now I feel like there's such a

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<v Speaker 2>swing toward wearing less makeup or no makeup and kind

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<v Speaker 2>of more comfortable clothes, and the skinny jeans are out,

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<v Speaker 2>and I love a mom jean or an even bag

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<v Speaker 2>ear jean. And I think there's kind of also more

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<v Speaker 2>integration of androgyny in femininity and kind of incorporating the masculine,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is a style that I feel very at

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<v Speaker 2>home and comfortable in, and so I'm really appreciative when

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<v Speaker 2>I see, you know, high fashion brands like Mew Mew

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<v Speaker 2>or Prada, or when I see other celebrities out in

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<v Speaker 2>the public eye like Kendall Jenner or Jennifer Lauren kind

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<v Speaker 2>of exemplify this more androgynous style. Drew Barrymore, I'm actually

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<v Speaker 2>wearing the Drew Barrymore sweatshirt that we got when we

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<v Speaker 2>were on the show promoting this podcast. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>she is another great example of someone who is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of pushing to have more embracing definitions of what it

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<v Speaker 2>means to be a woman and what it means to

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<v Speaker 2>be feminine in terms of beauty being equated with intelligence.

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<v Speaker 2>Though this is something that I actually as a young

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<v Speaker 2>woman working in the industry behind the camera, not as

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<v Speaker 2>an actor, where obviously there are a lot of different

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<v Speaker 2>types of beauty standards, but as a writer, I come

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<v Speaker 2>up against feeling like sometimes I am judged as a

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<v Speaker 2>more attractive young woman that I am not going to

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<v Speaker 2>be as intelligent of a writer. And obviously my job

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<v Speaker 2>is all about my intellect. It has nothing to do

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<v Speaker 2>with what I look like. And I actually this made

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<v Speaker 2>me think of a story about two summers ago. I

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<v Speaker 2>was in London with my mom for the Coraline was

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<v Speaker 2>celebrating its fifteen year anniversary, and we went to dinner

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<v Speaker 2>with a lot of filmmakers and people who had been

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<v Speaker 2>involved in the film, and we had My mom and

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<v Speaker 2>I had both been kind of made up because there

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<v Speaker 2>had been a little bit of a red carpet at

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<v Speaker 2>the exhibit, and I don't really wear makeup like that

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<v Speaker 2>in my day to day life, but I had, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'd had my makeup done and I had my hair done,

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<v Speaker 2>and I looked a little bit more glam than I

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<v Speaker 2>normally do. And we were at lunch and the wife

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<v Speaker 2>of one of the filmmakers there I was talking to

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<v Speaker 2>about being a writer and she goes, well, I hope

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<v Speaker 2>you don't look like this when you go into meetings,

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<v Speaker 2>because no one will take you seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, And it really stuck with me because it made

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<v Speaker 2>me feels so kind of small and insecure and was

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<v Speaker 2>taking honestly in a way that Carlos does with Gabby,

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<v Speaker 2>taking my looks and implying that no one will take

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<v Speaker 2>me seriously as a writer, which is my career if

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<v Speaker 2>I present as more glamorous in certain settings.

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<v Speaker 1>And it is.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a very It was really a comment that

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<v Speaker 2>has stuck with me since then and is something I

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<v Speaker 2>think about.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I you know, I guess I have a lot

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<v Speaker 1>to say about this. I mean, just you know, being

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<v Speaker 1>really young, before I was an act or anything. In

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<v Speaker 1>high school, I clearly remember, in fact, I remember the dress.

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<v Speaker 1>So I went away the summer of my sophomore year

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<v Speaker 1>at high school with like no breast, and I came

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<v Speaker 1>back as a junior with little, like with you know,

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<v Speaker 1>size B breast.

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<v Speaker 2>So they will but she says little, because I'm weren't

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<v Speaker 2>they weren't little?

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<v Speaker 1>No. I was gonna say, yeah, they I said little,

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<v Speaker 1>But they weren't. They were like a be a bee,

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<v Speaker 1>a noticeable, physical, noticeable change. And I had this yellow

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<v Speaker 1>kind of polyester dress from the eighties and and all

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<v Speaker 1>the boys. All the seniors suddenly noticed me like I suddenly,

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<v Speaker 1>and I felt horrible about it because I couldn't make

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<v Speaker 1>sense of why did nobody talk to me last year,

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<v Speaker 1>and now that I have breasts, everybody seems to be interested.

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<v Speaker 1>And it made me feel really ashamed of my breast.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't like my breasts. I didn't I didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>to be known for that. Ironically, I know, I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>wait a second, yeah, wait a second. Cut to my

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<v Speaker 1>career and I would say, you know, it's interesting. I've

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<v Speaker 1>actually heard Pamela Anderson talk a little bit about this,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, we all know that she's had her

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<v Speaker 1>you know, reinvention of herself and her whole career, and

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<v Speaker 1>a big part of that has been her exposing her

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<v Speaker 1>face literally with no makeup, but also like her persona is,

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<v Speaker 1>just to be who she is. And I really applaud

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<v Speaker 1>what she's talked about that allowing herself to be who

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<v Speaker 1>she is kind of for the first time in her life.

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<v Speaker 3>And blaming her beauty and her body as her And.

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely feel that, you know, most I guess I

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<v Speaker 1>can just speak for myself. I never thought I was beautiful,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I know, there are people who rightfully sow and

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of wish I had this confidence who have

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<v Speaker 1>looked in the mirror of their whole lives and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not even saying it like with arrogance, they've just looked

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<v Speaker 1>in the mirror and they've been like, I'm beautiful. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>a model, or I'm an actor, I'm a beautiful person,

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<v Speaker 1>and I go through the world and you know, I'm beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>I never felt that way about myself, which I you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's is a regret. I mean, I'm not saying that

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<v Speaker 1>there's nothing heroic about that. It's just my personal self

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<v Speaker 1>esteem issues. I never felt that way, but the world,

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<v Speaker 1>especially in my professional world, reflected on me that I

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<v Speaker 1>was beautiful and you know, on the cover of magazines

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<v Speaker 1>or was the sexiest woman in whatever how long you know, blah.

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<v Speaker 2>The world that was that headline.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this the world, right, So something I never asked

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<v Speaker 1>to be reflected at me and honestly wasn't particularly comfortable with.

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<v Speaker 1>Then as I age got taken away from me, like

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<v Speaker 1>you're not beautiful anymore. Now you're just old. Now you're

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<v Speaker 1>just didn't you know, you didn't age well whatever that means,

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<v Speaker 1>Like like I haven't done it right. So there's this

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<v Speaker 1>whole narrative about the exterior of me that I was

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<v Speaker 1>never a part of, but I've had to live with.

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<v Speaker 1>And it didn't include at all my intellect or my

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<v Speaker 1>talent or what I might have potentially been capable of.

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<v Speaker 1>And it is why my number one favorite thing about

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<v Speaker 1>being sixty is that I feel like, for the first

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<v Speaker 1>time in my life, people are going to have to

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<v Speaker 1>look at me and deal with me and judge me

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<v Speaker 1>for who I am and not what I look like,

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<v Speaker 1>and that I don't know if it's going to work

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<v Speaker 1>in my favor or not. I don't know if I'll

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<v Speaker 1>get acting jobs that I like. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>I'll make any money. I don't know what the result

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be. But what I do know is

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<v Speaker 1>that the person I am when I walk into a

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<v Speaker 1>room and I audition or I have a meeting with somebody,

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<v Speaker 1>it is much less concerned with what the exterior of

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<v Speaker 1>my face and body look like.

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<v Speaker 3>That has to probably feel very freeing.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like it's freeing. Like I said, it may

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<v Speaker 1>not work, you know, may nobody may be interested in

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<v Speaker 1>me while I'm not quote unquote useful and beautiful, but

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<v Speaker 1>I hope that they are because I think that I

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<v Speaker 1>have a lot to offer. I think I have more

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<v Speaker 1>to offer. I think I've more offered of course, yeah

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<v Speaker 1>when I was younger.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, and you're absolutely beautiful. You are very incredibly beautiful,

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<v Speaker 3>always have been, always will be. I think that's my opinion.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think I just feel like there's there's we

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<v Speaker 3>could talk about this forever. I'm sure it will come

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<v Speaker 3>up in future episodes as well, because of course it's

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<v Speaker 3>always relevant the idea, especially when you.

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<v Speaker 1>Were the show had five women who were all pretty

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<v Speaker 1>as their leads.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, exactly, And and I just think, like I remember,

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<v Speaker 3>I just I was thinking a lot about how this

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<v Speaker 3>show premiered in two thousand and four, and another show

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<v Speaker 3>that was on at this time in two thousand and

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<v Speaker 3>four was a reality show called The Swan. Do you

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<v Speaker 3>guys remember this show at all?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>What is this? Oh? Enlighten us reality Queen?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, so I, oh my gosh, I don't deserve

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<v Speaker 3>that title, but I will say The Swan. I'm really

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<v Speaker 3>glad that you guys don't remember this or don't know

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<v Speaker 3>about it, because your jaws are going to hit the floor.

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<v Speaker 3>The Swan was a reality show that took women who

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<v Speaker 3>felt like they were not beautiful because society has told

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<v Speaker 3>them they're not beautiful, just you know, regular regular women

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<v Speaker 3>out in the world, not actresses, not models, just women.

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<v Speaker 3>And then they incorporated them getting plastic surgery over the

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<v Speaker 3>course of several months, and then then they all competed

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<v Speaker 3>against each other in a beauty pageant. What the fuck

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<v Speaker 3>exactly they are? Jaw show. That show was on the

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<v Speaker 3>air in two thousand and fourteen year old bab I know,

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<v Speaker 3>I know, and as a fourteen year old girl, I

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<v Speaker 3>remember watching this show and being so horrified that not

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<v Speaker 3>only was the messaging like change your physical appearance through surgery,

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<v Speaker 3>which again like, of course if you want to, and

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<v Speaker 3>you can, like whatever, do what you want to be happy,

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<v Speaker 3>but it wasn't that. It was them as a show

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<v Speaker 3>producing this saying you come on the show, We're going

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<v Speaker 3>to change your appearance, and then we're gonna make you

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<v Speaker 3>compete against each other. I'm like, so sad for the

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<v Speaker 3>wh I know. So I think that show got two

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<v Speaker 3>seasons as well. So I like to think that we've

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<v Speaker 3>come a long way. I do think we're in an

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<v Speaker 3>interesting time now where there's a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 3>homogenized look.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, between ozempic and eyelifts. I like ozempic

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<v Speaker 2>and eyelifts. Literally, I feel like everyone in Hollywood suddenly

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<v Speaker 2>looks the same again in the last two years. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't Yeah, I don't love it.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I don't love it either, But it is interesting

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<v Speaker 1>that you kind of have these two lanes. You've got,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm gonna call it the Pamela Anderson lane

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<v Speaker 1>because I think she deserves, you know, the street title.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you've got still what is you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>well the Ozempic I Live lane, you know, and plenty

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<v Speaker 1>of celebrities out there doubling down on that they're skinnier

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<v Speaker 1>than ever.

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<v Speaker 2>I have been pretty disappointed to see some actors now

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to say like celebrities, because I think

0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.839
<v Speaker 2>that is a difference, but some really incredible actors whose

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<v Speaker 2>work I love and who I think have really unique looks.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say in the last year, I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to say fall into the trap, because I'm not trying

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<v Speaker 2>to have judgment about whatever you want to do that

0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.720
<v Speaker 2>makes you happy, but choose to go down the lane

0:13:35.880 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 2>of obviously altering things on their face to look more

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 2>homogenized with other celebrities who maybe aren't actually actors. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think, as an artist and as a writer who

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<v Speaker 2>aspires to write scripts that I imagine actors embodying, there is

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<v Speaker 2>a loss. There's actually kind of a great loss for

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<v Speaker 2>me of some people I grew up really idolizing, who

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<v Speaker 2>have changed some things about themselves and I think look

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<v Speaker 2>less like real people.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I wonder my parting words I want, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder who to blame, and I I guess we'll

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<v Speaker 1>ultimately like have to blame ourselves. I mean, I sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>do think that like we've created our own monster. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh it's you know, with our purchases, with you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what we tune into, like you know, we make things

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<v Speaker 1>popular and then we create the monster. So I think

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<v Speaker 1>we we have the power that if if if you

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<v Speaker 1>know it isn't what you want, don't buy it, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>stop consuming it, stop consuming it. I do wonder if

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, all the tuning, all the all the filters,

0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 1>like if it made people it's brain changed and then

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<v Speaker 1>they looked in the mirror and went like, oh I

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.840
<v Speaker 1>need a fill for my face, And I'm so used

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<v Speaker 1>to looking at myself with the filter. Now it don't

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.120
<v Speaker 1>look like like I. But again, we've done it to ourselves.

0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, we've done it to ourselves, and it's sad.

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<v Speaker 1>So because I'm here to say, we're all beautiful for

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<v Speaker 1>who we are and whatever that means to be beautiful.

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:23.680
<v Speaker 1>I think being beautiful is about being a good person.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope that's what counts.

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<v Speaker 3>I agree, I am all right. Well, thanks for chatting

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<v Speaker 3>about this.

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<v Speaker 1>I know there's more. I feel like we go on.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll have to, We'll have to do this one again.

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<v Speaker 1>Let us know what you think, let us know, hope

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<v Speaker 1>we should keep talking about inner beauty and outer beauty.

0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 2>And if you have things to add, if you have

0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.360
<v Speaker 2>perspectives to add, right to us. We'll pick it up

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<v Speaker 2>in our next X y Z about beauty. Yes we will, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>because we are desperately devoted to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely see next week five