1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound On. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: If people think the country is on the wrong track 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: and are upset, it's usually really bad news to the 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: party in Valley. The Democrats had a very difficult challenge 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: on their hands when it comes to the mid term 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On, Politics, Policy and perspect from DC's top names. 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: I pick, there's a lot of petrup demand for electing 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: a woman. Hand I two could be the year of 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: the world, and I see this demand that we have 10 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: today as the baseline for the future could mean to 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: our economy is roaring back. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe 12 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The President leaves the bubble for 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: a little barbecue in Kansas City, back on the road 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: today to sell infrastructure and the rest of the economic agenda, 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: while Democratic leaders on Capitol Hill right there Christmas lists. 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: With very little time left to make the President's holiday 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: wishes come true. We'll discuss what to expect coming up 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: with Sheila Burke of the Harvard Kennedy School, former chief 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: of staff to the late Senator Bob Dole. Later, our 20 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 1: conversation with Deputy White House Press Secretary Chris Mahr and 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: the panel today Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chanzano, Rick Davis 22 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: with us in studio for the hour. Yes, the signature 23 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: panel intact. You would think Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: did something wrong by reading the headlines on the terminal. 25 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 1: You know, we pull headlines from everywhere the Atlantic. Why 26 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: Mitch caved again? Politico Trump teas off on McConnell. Business 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: insider Trump rips McConnell for not using debt ceiling to 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: block Biden's agenda. I could go on this. Of course, 29 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: after McConnell announced the deal late yesterday to fast track 30 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: legislation to lift the debt ceiling, we talked about this 31 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: and paved the way for Democrats to do it with 32 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: a simple majority. So he's being punished by members of 33 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: his own party for again helping to avoid a default. 34 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: All the while, as I mentioned, Democratic leaders are sticking 35 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: with their plans here or maybe hopes a better word, 36 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: to pass the rest of the president's economic agenda before 37 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: leaving for the holidays. Can it be done or will 38 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: they leave for the holidays. Here's how Speaker Nancy Pelosi, 39 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: we feel very confident about what is indild back better. 40 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: We know what some possibilities are, and it would be 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: my hope that we have this bill done before the 42 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: Christmas vacation, and it again echoing Chuck Schumer, majority leader 43 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: next door in the Senate. And that is where we 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: begin with Sheila Burke of the Harvard Kennedy School, former 45 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: chief of staff for the late Senator Bob Doles. She 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: now chairs the Government Relations and Public Safety group at 47 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: the firm Baker Donaldson. Sheila, I thank you for being here, 48 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: been looking forward to it. You've walked up on many 49 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: holiday breaks with a long to do list. You know 50 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: what it's like to be in the majority facing the 51 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: Christmas break. Will Democrats pass the President's social spending plan 52 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: in time? Gosh, thanks very much for having me on today. Um. 53 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: You know you describe correctly the run up to a holiday, 54 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: which is not infrequent when there is pressured to complete 55 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: action on particular legislation. I think there is certainly the 56 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: intention by Mr Schumer to get the Senate to complete 57 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: its work. The question will be whether or not that 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: resolves the question or whether they have to conference with 59 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: the House, and that could certainly go into next year. 60 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: But it's certainly going on Senator Schumer's words, his intention 61 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: is to complete work and to get it done. So 62 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: we can only go with that, certainly not with the 63 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 1: support of the Republicans. Well, we could also go with 64 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: what John Mansion has been saying in Kyrston Cinema that 65 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: this timeline to to get this done before Christmas is 66 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: not realistic. Uh and maybe not even possible. You know, 67 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: he just doesn't have the votes to make that happen, 68 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: does he. Well, it will take all of his votes, 69 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: all fifty. We've known that from the outset, and certainly 70 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: Senator Mansion has used the opportunity to articulate his concerns, 71 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: as has Senator Cinema, and taken the oppert tunity to 72 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: negotiate against the deadline. Again, this is not an unusual 73 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: set of circumstances, and I suspect it will go to 74 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: the very end in terms of negotiating. We're still waiting 75 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: for the final bird Bath process to complete, and Senator 76 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: Mansion has said he will in fact await the results 77 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: of that to see what the final package looks like. 78 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: Doesn't that tell you something? Though, If we don't even 79 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: know if the parliamentarian is good with the language in 80 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: this bill. Well, it's not unusual to ask the parliamentarian 81 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: to do that kind of review. It's quite usual. It will, 82 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: I suspect, go into next week before we see a 83 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: completion of that work to determine what is and what 84 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: is not. If they're supposed to be done this week, right, 85 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to keep I suspect it will be 86 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: next week would be my best, perhaps uninformed guest, but 87 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: that would be my guest. What's that like when you're 88 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: in the majority leader's office and you have to start 89 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: calling people to tell them they're not going home when 90 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: they thought they were not pretty, not pretty something in 91 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: whether it was a Christmas break or the fourth of 92 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,559 Speaker 1: July or the August rece s uh. It is never 93 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: easy to tell members that they have to delete, you know, 94 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: really delay their plans. Not an easy thing for a 95 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: leader to do. As someone who's deeply aware of the 96 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: realities of this situation, you know, we've been talking about 97 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: these massive Sheila, massive comprehensive bills and one of my 98 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: questions for a lot of people lately, and I've talked 99 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: to our panel here about it, including your old friend 100 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, who was with us in studio. What about 101 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: taking this piece mail? What if you come into the 102 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: new year too Okay, no one wants another trillion something dollars? 103 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: What about a paid leave bill? What about a standalone 104 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: bill on on free pre k? Is that not in 105 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: the works at this point? Or if that just can't 106 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: be done because the margins are too thin, you know, 107 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: that's always an option. Uh. Incremental is not necessarily a 108 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: negative term, nor one that leads to an inability to conclude. 109 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: But often you need one piece to balance another. Uh, 110 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: something that someone cares deeply about in order to get 111 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: someone to vote in favor of something they feel less 112 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: strongly about. So it's really a calculation by the leadership 113 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: as to what the mix needs to look like. And 114 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 1: this was something Dole managed, certainly, Senator Dastion managed, Senator 115 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: Mitchell Mantel, Senator Bird managed, Senator a lot and others 116 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: have managed. And that is the calculus by the leader 117 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: as to what it needs in order to get it 118 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: through the final push. Uh. And that's a call I 119 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: suspect they're examining very closely today. What are the piece 120 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 1: of that you need in order to get a the 121 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: right number of votes. Now, the other side of this 122 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: whole story, Sheila, is is the view of your party, 123 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: the Republican party, where inflation is the word, where inflation 124 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: is the concern, and inflation seems to be driving the 125 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: talking points. And nobody is going to be going near 126 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: this agenda here as we gear up for for a 127 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: wild mid term election year. What is the best posture 128 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: for Republicans now to not look like obstructionists but to 129 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: stick with that storyline. Well, I think the best position 130 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: for Republicans is to in fact hold of their principles 131 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: in terms of the things that are critical. They're obviously 132 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: concerned about the economy, obviously concerned about inflation, but equally 133 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: is concerned about the concerns being raised by their constituents. 134 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: And there are legitimate questions about the need for child 135 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: care support, legitimate questions for some of the elements of 136 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: the legislation. Now having passed the first bill with the 137 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: infrastructure changes, will provide tremendous opportunities, we believe, UH and 138 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: one that obviously came out originally with a bipartisan vote. UH. 139 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: And in this case, I think again there are legitimate 140 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: questions about whether it is too much UH and whether 141 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: in fact it will lead to a greater concern in 142 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: terms of inflation, uh and pressure on the economy. And 143 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: that's I think, consistently the position Republicans have taken and 144 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: I suspect will continue to take. But again, they'll look 145 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: at each element of this I think going forward, and 146 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: it goes back to your question about it you better 147 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: off breaking it up or keeping it together, And that's 148 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: a calculus that has to be made, Sheila, I didn't 149 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: mean to be presumptuous in the framing of my question. 150 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: Maybe I should have started by asking you if you 151 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: feel like this is still your Republican party. Well, you know, 152 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: that's a that's a very difficult question to answer. I mean, 153 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: there's certainly elements of the points of view that are 154 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: being held by Republicans today with which I am quite comfortable. 155 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: There are others that perhaps I feel that we need 156 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: to reach more to compromise. We need to look at 157 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: some of the issues that are confronting the American public 158 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: and deal with them, whether it's nutrition issues, housing issues, 159 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: retirement security, and certainly health care and health care costs. Obviously, 160 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: the drug provisions are ones that a great many people 161 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: care very deeply. About I certainly do in terms of 162 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: the cost of drugs and the pressure that puts on 163 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: American families. So I think there are certainly issues about 164 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: which I feel strongly and agree and others where I 165 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: would disagree. You know Joe Biden, you knew him, I'm 166 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: sure for many years in the it worked directly with him. 167 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: Is he an honest broker in these negotiations? Oh? My? 168 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: I think I could describe fairly Senator Dole's view of 169 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: Senator Biden then as being a decent, honorable man with 170 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: strongly held views. I think there's no question that he 171 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: feels strongly about these issues. Uh, and is also somebody 172 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: who knows the Senate and is someone who seeks to 173 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: reach compromise. That was his view when he was in 174 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: the Senate as a member, and I think that's certainly 175 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: what appears to be his position today. Well, there does 176 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: seem to be a feel among Republicans that he's over 177 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: his head, that he doesn't realize what's actually being discussed 178 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: at kitchen tables. If I can use that that tired cliche. 179 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: He thinks that he's coming from the working man's perspective, Sheila, Well, 180 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, um, I think there's no question that he 181 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: comes from a working man's perspective. I think that's his background. 182 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: I think it's something he understands. I don't think he's 183 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: forgotten his roots any more than Bob Dole did coming 184 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: out of Russell, Kansas. I think they both felt strongly 185 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: for families and the concerns of families, and I believe 186 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: firmly that Senator Biden, now President Biden, holds true to 187 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: those views of essentially worrying about the American family. I 188 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: want to ask you about your old boss in our 189 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: last couple of minutes here, Sheila, because I'm sure you've 190 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: had a lot of thoughts and a lot of memories 191 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: going through your head. This week. We've had a couple 192 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: of very important days coming up in Washington, and it 193 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: begins tomorrow. The formal tribute to Bob Dole will liance 194 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: state in the Capitol Rotunda. The President will take part 195 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: in a private ceremony. The Washington National Cathedral will then 196 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: host the funeral of Bob Dole on Friday. I can 197 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: only assume that you'll be part of these commemorations, and 198 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: I wonder what your thoughts were, Sheila, when you saw 199 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: President Biden get up early in the morning with the 200 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: First Lady yesterday went down to the World War Two 201 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: Memorial to lay that wreath. You know, I would I 202 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: would add that the third element of the celebration will 203 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: in fact be at the World War Two Memorial, as 204 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: President Biden recognized yesterday the importance of that to Senator Dole. 205 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: The last stop Senator Doll will make on his way 206 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: home to Kansas will be the World War Two Memorial. Um. 207 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: The next two days are going to be very difficult, 208 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: but I think celebratory. It was as he would wish it. UM. 209 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: He loved the Senate, loved it as an institution, and 210 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: I think the opportunity to lie in the rotunda is 211 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: remarkably important to him and to his family. I think 212 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: it is a place of um reverence for Senator Dolls 213 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: for all those years. Uh. And I think again it 214 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: will be a celebratory event and a recognition of how 215 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: important it was to him. And again his last stop 216 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: will be at the World War Two Memorial. Well, I 217 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: want to express our condolences to you, Sheila Burke, and 218 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your insights with us today, and 219 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: good luck these next two days. We'll all be watching 220 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: and listening and talking about it here on Bloomberg Radio, 221 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: certainly on this program. Am sound on. I'm Joe Matthew. 222 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: We're in New York. I didn't mention that at the 223 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: mother Ship. And guess what Rick and Genie are up next. 224 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg You sound on 225 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. The President making his 226 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: way back from Kansas City. As we discussed in big 227 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: thoughts are coming up on Capitol Hill. How do we 228 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: get all of this stuff done? They still have to 229 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: make good on the debt ceiling deal that we talked about, 230 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: still have to make sure that the defense spending package 231 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: is done, and as we discussed yesterday, maybe they're done. 232 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: After that. We assemble the panel now to talk about 233 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: some of the ideas we shared with Gil Burke, Bloomberg 234 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,959 Speaker 1: Politics contributors Genie Chantano and Rick Davis or where this 235 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: in studio And it's great to see you guys. What 236 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: are your thoughts here? Genie, should everybody just go home 237 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: this weekend? Or do we actually you know, by the way, 238 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: we are hearing that they're going to keep lawmakers in 239 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: town through next week or into next week. Is this 240 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: some sort of a show when Democrats don't actually have 241 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: the votes to pass the next massive piece of legislation 242 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: that that would be up for a vote. Well, you know, 243 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer says he's going to push this through before Christmas, 244 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: so you know the job that. I can't explain why 245 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: he's saying it, because I don't think that Joe Mansion 246 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: is on board, and without Mansion, it's not going to happen. 247 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: But Chuck Schumer has said this repeatedly. I do think, 248 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, we have seen great progress on the debt 249 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: ceiling that looks like that gets wrapped up maybe early 250 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: next week, and then it's all about build back better 251 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: and the n d A A. And you know they 252 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: are saying Democrats are saying that they still have an 253 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: intent to get this through. And I don't see it 254 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: happening myself, but Chuck Schumer says he wants to do that, 255 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: and maybe the fact that people want to go home 256 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: for the holidays is going to push them to take action. 257 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: I doubt about the pain that's involved and making those calls. Rick, 258 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: you know what, you're going to have to stay. We're 259 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: extending uh the session here. If you're a Democrat and 260 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: you know the votes aren't there, you don't want to 261 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: take that call, do you. You don't want to take 262 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: the call any time. But it is what leadership uses 263 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: as a device to force people to do things they 264 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: otherwise wouldn't do. Right, And that's what this is all about, 265 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: is getting people to change their minds. Can he keep 266 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: people in long enough with the threat that they're going 267 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: to have to miss things at home? Uh? And and 268 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: they have the pressure build right in the public mind, 269 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: people like us talking about this all the time to 270 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: like get you to cave and and to be honest, 271 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: I mean, the two people that they need to get 272 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: caved are Joe Manchin and Christen Cinema. And I don't 273 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: think they're capable. They don't they don't care. And by 274 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: the way, I'm relatively confident that when they walk through 275 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: the halls they're getting thumbs up by a lot of 276 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: their colleagues in a Democratic caucus. And not to two 277 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: tell me more about that, I mean, just think about it. 278 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: I mean, because we isolated this to two obstructionists, you're saying, 279 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: it's just a lot of obstructionists who are only under 280 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: pressure right now from one individual, Chuck Schumer, right, how 281 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: many other Democrats you see out there being quoted in 282 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: the as saying this is outrageous. We've got to stop this. 283 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin is being a bad Democrat. None, They're called 284 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: Chamber of One. The conventional wisdom is their colleagues are 285 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: annoyed with them for for holding this whole thing up. Well, 286 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: that's even better for them, right, I mean, like, so, 287 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: so you know if you tell someone no enough, sooner 288 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: or later they start to believe you. Well, it's not 289 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: just like, oh well, if we just keep you here 290 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: long enough, you're gonna cave. But I don't think they're capable. 291 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: I think this is just optics. I think that Schumer 292 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: has to convince Democrats both in the Senate and in 293 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: the House because he's in charge now that um he's 294 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: doing everything he can to turn the screws on these 295 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: two individuals to get them to vote right on the 296 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: bill back better. And I just think he's it's all 297 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: optics at this stage. I think they've done the hard work. 298 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: They got a compromise on the dead ceiling. They were 299 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: able to avoid a sequestration of Medicare, which was the 300 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: number one priority to Republicans, and they ought to declare 301 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: victory and get the heck out of there, but they're 302 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: gonna just drag it on if they if they can. 303 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: It was the optics that was I was kind of 304 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: thinking as we were talking about this, Genie, what what's 305 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: the purpose of putting on that show? Is it to say, 306 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, we stayed till the last we used every 307 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: last minute to do this for the American people, these 308 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: guys held us up. Is it to have the opportunity 309 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: to say that that we did everything we could, We 310 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: exhausted every opportunity. I think that's what Chuck Schumer thinks. 311 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: I also really thinking you're changing mind as he's not 312 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: going to change minds. As Rick said, Joe Manion has 313 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: been clear right up to this week, there is no 314 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: need to do this right now. There is no deadline 315 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: by Christmas, except an artificial one set by Chuck Schumer. 316 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: And yes, we're going into an election year. Yes, to 317 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer's point, it does get harder to do the 318 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: longer this drags on, So there is you know, some 319 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: pressure there. But the reality is, and I think this 320 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: is where I agree with Rick on this is members 321 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: are concerned this first time. I'll great now UM members 322 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: are concerned on the Democratic side about this issue of 323 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: inflation constantly being brought up to them as many of 324 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 1: them run in really difficult re elections, and that is 325 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: a number one issue or a top issue on many 326 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: voters minds, particularly in these swing districts, and so they've 327 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: got to be very, very cautious. And I think they 328 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,199 Speaker 1: like to have the cover of a Joe Mansion in 329 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: a Christian cinema to say, yeah, we wanted to build 330 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: back better, but unfortunately, you know, gosh, guys couldn't get there. 331 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: Maybe we'll do it in the new year. And it 332 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: gives them an out. They go home and hope their 333 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: constituents get Christmas presents in a timely manner. That's right, Okay, 334 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: the comments from Joe Mansion, uh that that we heard yesterday, 335 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: We keep hearing from the administration seventeen Nobel Prize winning 336 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,159 Speaker 1: a kind of and he said, well, seventeen Nobel Prize 337 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: winning economists were wrong. At some point, Rick, you talk 338 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: about inflation just about every day in this conversation. At 339 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: some point the White House narrative will have to change 340 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: on that. Well, we've seen the FED narrative change one, right, 341 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: I mean, well, the firman of the FED was wrong. 342 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: It wasn't transient. And what is transient? Is it two years? 343 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: Four years? I mean, like, you know, some of these 344 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,120 Speaker 1: guys been around a long time. Transient to them, right, 345 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: I mean. So, so, look, I mean, everybody is starting 346 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: to get with it, and this administration has not been 347 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: nimble on this issue. Right. They were telling everybody don't 348 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: worry about this while people were getting negatively affected by this. 349 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: And so you're not only just wrong on the met 350 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: on the facts that the inflation isn't going away right away, 351 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: but you're you're wrong to tell people to ignore something 352 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 1: that's hurting them, right, I mean, And so so the 353 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: administration has been incredibly good in the past of being empathetic, right, 354 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: certainly much more than Donald Trump's administration was, which was 355 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: grin and Barrett babe uh and uh. And so I 356 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: think this is the thing that I don't quite understand 357 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: is that the number one issue in America is relatively 358 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: ignored by the White House. Just a day after meeting 359 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: with Vladimir Putin, President Biden gets back to domestic politics 360 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: leaves the bubble for Kansas City, and we've heard speeches 361 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: like these before, promoting the now infrastructural law, but also 362 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: making the case for build back better and want to 363 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: talk about it with Deputy White House Presecretary Chris mar 364 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: joining us for the first time. Welcome Chris to Bloomberg Radio. 365 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm glad to be here. I know that 366 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: you don't plan these presidential trips by accident. A lot 367 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 1: of thought goes into them. You could be anywhere in 368 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: the country today. So why Kansas City for President Biden? 369 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: Are you? Are you appealing to people who voted for 370 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: Donald Trump in the last election to get the word 371 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: out on what you're up to. Well, you know, we 372 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: think it's important to go everywhere and talk to everybody, 373 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: whether they voted for the president or not. UM. And 374 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: the fact is that the people in Kansas and Missouri 375 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: are going to be feeling the impact of the bipartisan 376 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: infrastructure law that was signed by the President last month. Uh, 377 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, last week, UM Vice President Harris and Pete 378 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: Boutagis were in North Carolina. Before that, the President was 379 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: in again. So we're going everywhere and we're talking to 380 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: everybody because we think we have a really good infrastructure. 381 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,479 Speaker 1: UH plan to to talk to people about it has 382 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 1: been quite a road trip for I know for a 383 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: lot of you realizing it will take time for some 384 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: of the items that you mentioned to get off the 385 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: ground to get things running from the infrastructure law. Are 386 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: you concerned the plan will will take too long to 387 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: touch Americans to make a difference in the midterm elections 388 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: or do you see some of these actually getting shovels 389 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: on the ground by the inter of next year. Well, 390 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: what we're focused on our our shovel worthy projects, not 391 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 1: so much shove already projects. I would say, you know, 392 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: the mid terms are the farthest uh from our minds. 393 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: What we're focused on is what can help middle class 394 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: families around the country. Um. What you're talking about with 395 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: the infrastructure law is good paying union jobs. UM. And 396 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, infrastructure improvements to our roads and our bridges. Uh. 397 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: These are broadly popular components that you know, Republicans support, 398 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: Democrats support, independent support. Everybody drives over those potholes, you know. Uh. 399 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: So we're we worked in a bipartisan manner to pass 400 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: the infrastructure Law, and now we're going to get to 401 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: work implementing. So we're going with shovel worthy, Chris instead 402 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: of shovel ready. This is big stuff for me, you know, 403 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: for a guy who covered the two thousand and eight 404 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: election and remembering some of this stuff, the stimulus law, 405 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: this is this is big semantics for those of us 406 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: who are wonky in Washington. Well, certainly, you know, we're 407 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: getting right to work in implementing uh, the infrastructure plan 408 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: and uh, you know where their projects perhaps already in 409 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: the works or being planned to identifying you know, roads 410 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: and bridges and airports that uh, you know, our need 411 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: of improvement. We look at this as a generational transformational moment, uh, 412 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: to take us from twelve uh in the world in 413 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: infrastructure to compete and more globally with with other countries. 414 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: So it's a it's a long term investment in our economy, 415 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,959 Speaker 1: but it is going to add uh and grow our 416 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: economy in the short term. As well. As the President 417 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: tries to spread the words on infrastructure, he's also making 418 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: the case for his Build Back Better plan, kind of 419 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: in the same breath, with Joe Manchin, Kirsten Cinema others 420 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: saying that they're concerned about the timeline to have this 421 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: passed by Christmas. I wonder does the White House care 422 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: if this carries into the new year, if this is 423 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: done in January, for instance. Well, look, we're hoping to 424 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: get this past as early as we can get it. Um. 425 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: The President's in touch with members and leadership on the Hill. 426 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: Our team is in touch with members and leadership on 427 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: the Hill. We're engaging in good faith, UH, as we 428 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: always do. And I think what you're seeing with the 429 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: discussions around build back, but there's a sense of urgency 430 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: to build on our historic jobs growth, to fight the 431 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: inflationary pressures that we're feeling, and cut the biggest costs 432 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: facing families, childcare, prescription drugs, elder care. And so you know, 433 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: we're we're confident at the end of the day that uh, 434 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: the Senate is going to put American families first and 435 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: move quickly to get this done. We'll leave it to 436 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: them on the timetable, but we feel confident that we're 437 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: going to get this across the finish line. I ask 438 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: you because you know, I know that that Press Secretary 439 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: Jansaki has been asked this about a hundred times in 440 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: the White House briefs, and from what I understand or 441 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: infer from the White House's position on this is we'll 442 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: take the amount of time it takes to get it done. 443 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: That too much is being made of deadlines. At the 444 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, if we get the 445 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: Build Back Better Act past UM, that's going to lead 446 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: to lower costs for the American people, that's going to 447 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: lead to more money and pockets for the American people, 448 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,639 Speaker 1: extending tax cuts for working on las UH, and easing 449 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: this inflationary pressure that uh we're feeling on the economy. 450 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: And so that's what our focus is. We want it 451 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: to pass as early as we can get it, but 452 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: we're confident in in the discussions and the negotiations that 453 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: are taking place on the Hill. Secretary, I want to 454 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: ask you lastly about messaging from the White House. A 455 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: lot has been made about the President's approval ratings. You 456 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: don't need me to tell you, but you're a former journalist. 457 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: You spent years in TV and newspapers, and I wonder 458 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: what you think when you read stories about the President's 459 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: approval ratings right now? Does does the White House have 460 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: a messaging problem? You know, the President signed the infrastructure 461 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: Bill into law last month, and and like we mentioned 462 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: at the top, our administration is hitting the road to 463 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: talk to the American people directly about the benefits of 464 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: that infrastructure plan. Um, we know that these components are 465 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: broadly popular with people, and we just need to continue 466 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: to have that discussion with people. On one hand, in 467 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: the Buildback Better Act, you have demo crets, you know, 468 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: fighting for lower prices and costs for the American people, 469 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 1: extending tax cuts, easing inflationary pressures. On the other side, 470 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: you have Republicans who voted against lower and core costs 471 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: for Americans and prescription drugs and childcare. They're fighting against 472 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: common sense measures to put the pandemic in retreat, and 473 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: they're voting against easing inflationary pressures. You know, they don't 474 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: have a plan, and they refuse to get on board 475 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: with the build backed up and they say that this 476 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: would make inflation worse in the new year. So you know, 477 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: you've got people on such stark sides of this argument. 478 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: Seventeen Nobel Prize winners and economics would disagree with them 479 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 1: on that one. So I do know that line. Senator 480 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: Mansion seemed to have his own here. But it's a 481 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: fascinating conversation that we're having here and I thought I 482 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: would ask from from one journalist to another. Secretary. I 483 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: know that your time is tight. Want to thank you 484 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: for being with us today on Bloomberg Radio. Come back 485 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: and see us. All right, Thanks Joe for having me. 486 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,880 Speaker 1: We're updating our WONK vocab list now officially to include 487 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: shovel worthy sort of made my data. It's a sub note, 488 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,479 Speaker 1: different version. Shovel ready a few pages down. All right, 489 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here on Sound on the 490 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: fastest hour in politics. Rick and Genie will come back. 491 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: We'll talk more about this and a vote teed up 492 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill in the Senate, one we've been waiting 493 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: for to potentially overturn the Biden administration's mandates on vaccines 494 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: and testing. It's all ahead. Here is well check traffic 495 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: and the markets for you too, to try to help 496 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: you get home. Joe Matthew, stay with us. This is Bloomberg. 497 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on with Joe Matthew 498 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. So here's a question. Rick Davis asked it, 499 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: as a matter of facts, why is the President Biden 500 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: in Kansas City trying to sell what's already been done 501 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: with infrastructure instead of staying in Washington, d C. To 502 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: try to get the reconciliation bill pass. Do you have 503 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: an answer to your own question? You know, build back 504 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: better Biden? You know, I mean, where is he? They're 505 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: counting down too, But that's kind of Republican And that's 506 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: an attack line, isn't it? Because can't he do his 507 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: job anywhere? You know, he's got air Force one, he's 508 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: got the traveling light up. He can he can call 509 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: and talk to you know, the Majority Leader and and 510 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: and and the rest of the caucus from air Force one. 511 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: What he might probably want to do is put Joe 512 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 1: Mansion on Air Force on when he flies out of 513 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: town and like, you know, threatening to put him in 514 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: a jumpsuit and send him out the door if he 515 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 1: doesn't vote right. I mean, like, look, I mean there's 516 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: something to be said for being in Washington and being 517 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: the president. This is how he negotiated the deal begin with. 518 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: He brought him all over the White House. So what 519 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: are we gonna do? Have a Christmas party and you know, 520 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: have Joe Mansion to a sidebar and under the mistletoe. 521 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: I mean, like I'm ready, does that see the kiss? 522 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: Does that bother you? Genie, or do you think he's 523 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: actually doing what what Rick is saying. He's he's working phones, 524 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: he's talking to people, whether he's in d C or 525 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: across the country. I am going to defend President by 526 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: and on this. I think he's doing exactly what he 527 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: should be. This is a huge accomplishment to pass the 528 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: hard infrastructure bill, bipartisan as it was. He should be 529 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: out there talking about it, celebrating it. We've talked about 530 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: the fact that this is exactly what Democrats should be doing. 531 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: And I think the last thing he should be doing 532 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: is sitting in Washington, D C. Trying to knock his 533 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: head against the mansion cinema wall that's not going to 534 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: crack until at least after New Year's So if I 535 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: was on his team, I would say, go out, Joe, 536 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: sell that bill. Talk about what you've done. Major accomplishment 537 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 1: and much needed at everything from the environment to bridges, roads, tunnels, broadbands, 538 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: everything else. He's doing what he should be doing. Is 539 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: it an optical problem? Though? Not everybody knows what you 540 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: know about the way these things work. And if he's 541 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: out there in Kansas City, by the way, I can 542 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: only imagine what the local you know conservative talk stations 543 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: are saying in that area in a state that he lost. Well, 544 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: I talked to somebody from Missouri today. I'm gonna tell 545 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: you this, Joe and Missouri or Missouri. I'm always curious 546 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: as England. She probably said Missouri. I did say Missouri, 547 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: and I am from New England, so there's that, um. 548 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: But I did talk to somebody. And you know, this 549 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: is important for presidents, particularly in these days, is to 550 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: get out and talk to local media. They want to 551 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: break through this national media focus on everything going on 552 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And talk to people on the ground. 553 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: So I do think that it is productive for him. 554 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: Sure he's going to get pushed back from conservative media 555 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: in the state, but that's okay. And to your earlier 556 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: guests comment, you know they've got to go places. You 557 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: can't only go where you win, you gotta go everywhere. 558 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: So you know I'm here to defend your not that 559 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: he needs it, I read. I mean, there are two 560 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: sides to this. That was the when when Barack Obama 561 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: finished the whole Obamacare a situation. Rick, I'm sure you 562 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: remember it. He said, God, if I had to do 563 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: anything over again, I would have taken a lot more 564 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: care to explain things to people and actually try to 565 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: promote what we did because people still didn't exactly know 566 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: what was in there. You know. The difference though, is 567 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: he didn't have a two trillion dollar transformational social programming 568 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 1: that is only for Democrats in Congress to pass, and 569 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: he didn't. He didn't have that to keep him at home, right, So, like, 570 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: you're right, he probably should have gone out and actually 571 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: explained Obamacare. But the reality is that this is the 572 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: shining star of his legislative achievement. It's only going to 573 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: have votes from the Democratic Caucus, and if it goes down, 574 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: it's only going to be on the backs of the 575 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: Democratic Party, and so he had better ensure that it 576 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: gets done. I mean, someone ought to ask Joe mention, 577 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: when was the last time you got a phone call 578 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: from Joe Biden, Because if it wasn't today from that airplane, 579 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: then it was probably not a good use of his time, 580 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: because right now Joe Manson is standing between him and 581 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: his legacy. Is Joe Manin taking his calls right now? Genie, 582 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: I mean, of course you take the call from the president, 583 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: but some of the comments he's had about you know, 584 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: potentially leaving the party. This seems very casual about all 585 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: of this. You know, we look, they haven't invited me, 586 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: But I'm kind of stuck somewhere in the middle. He's in. 587 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: I think he's taking his calls, and they have a 588 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: good relationship. It's a solid relationship. And let me just say, 589 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: I wouldn't tell the President to be in Washington, d C. 590 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: Pushing for something that we've all agreed is probably not 591 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: going to happen before Christmas. I don't think it's a 592 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: good way to spend his time. And I also think 593 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: with this economic environment and inflation as it is, it's 594 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: not something that he needs to be talking about. Let 595 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: the Democrats in the Senate try to work this out. 596 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 1: He can come in when he can push it over 597 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: the line. You're not going to push it over the 598 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: line right now, and I think he knows that intuitively. 599 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: Of course, these aren't the only votes that are happening 600 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: in Washington. We've talked about the debt limit of the 601 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: wild procedure that that's going to go through the n 602 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: d a A. And there's some voting going on about 603 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: vaccine mandates. We got a whiff of this and we 604 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: talked about it with with both of you in the 605 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: continuing resolution to fund the government. Right there was a 606 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: thought that, uh, this would be held up and it 607 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: was kind of for a minute, but they work things 608 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: out by the deadline by a couple of Republican senators 609 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: who wanted to block the Biden administration's vaccine and testing mandates. 610 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: There's a new wrinkle on this as I read on 611 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: the terminal. Republicans put vaccine mandates on agenda for mid 612 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: term elections. It's also a standalone vote here. Republicans say 613 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: requirements that some people get vaccinated or risk losing their 614 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: jobs are deeply unpopular and worse than employment and inflation. 615 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: We heard today from Senator Mike Braun, Republican from Indiana, 616 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: said Aboule, he favors people getting vaccinated. He's not an 617 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: anti vaxer. He says individuals and businesses must be able 618 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: to make their own decisions. Here, he is this is 619 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: different because it's coming from the highest level of authority. 620 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: It's a federal mandate. Most other vaccine mandates and I 621 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: think they've all were originated at the state level. And uh, 622 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: this is done also in the context of probably um 623 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: Hotter political you know, environment to to where have either 624 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: been vaccinated are gotten immunity through natural infection alex Off rights. 625 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: This could be a risky move. Voters seem to support 626 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 1: at least some vaccine mandates according to recent polls. Is 627 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: a good politics Rick, Yeah, I think this falls into 628 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: like where the puck's gonna go, not where it is. 629 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: Right where it is today is everybody's kind of trying 630 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: to get over this thing, and and and you're you're 631 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: trying to figure out, like how do we get everybody 632 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: a javany arm and you've still got the thread of 633 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: a macon and and other you know viruses that that 634 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: are the threat to our jobs, in our in our economy. 635 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: But like a year from now, where do you think 636 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: we're gonna be If if we've got that many people 637 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: already vaccinated, it's it's going to be yesterday's news. And 638 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: so the question is how many of these people lost 639 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: their jobs because they didn't get vaccinated. Now we're right 640 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: out of the threshold of pain, we're out of the 641 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: exposure for public health emergency. Do they get rehired to 642 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 1: the police, to the nurses who chose not to get 643 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: a vaccine? So I think that's where they're going. They're 644 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: looking down stream and saying, you know what, it's not 645 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: going to affect anybody today. No one's voting, and there's 646 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: all kinds of disagreement on this, but like, we want 647 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: to be in a place where we thought it was 648 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: unfair for people to lose their jobs just because they 649 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: didn't get a vaccination. This would be a Congressional Review 650 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: Act vote. Right. I mentioned that Republicans are pushing this, 651 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: but you know, Joe Mansion and John Tester, Democrat from 652 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: Montana say they will join Republicans in supporting a genie. Yeah, 653 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: that's right. And I'm still trying to make sense of 654 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: Rick's puck comment because I'm not a nice hockey person, 655 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: so that analogy was lost on me. Rick, David Runsky baby. 656 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 1: But you know, I do think it's not a surprise 657 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 1: that Tester and Mansion are on board with this. Um. 658 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: You know, this is in the United States. It is 659 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: a very um It's an issue that quite frankly goes 660 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: back to the founding. Not to put my academic hat 661 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: on it, but we are in a country that values liberty, 662 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, above all else. And while mandates are very, 663 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: very helpful in getting people vaccinated. People I think are 664 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: rightly concerned about the federal government stepping in and trying 665 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: to tell you what to do with your own body. 666 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: So I am not surprised this is such a divisive issue. 667 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about in the context of abortion 668 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: it to a certain extent. Now you're talking about in 669 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: the context of vaccines and a pandemic. On the flip side, 670 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: we you know, those of us who have gone to 671 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: school and that educating the United States, we've gotten vaccinated 672 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: without much, you know, thought about it until the pandemics. 673 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: So I do think it's gonna something we're going to 674 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: continue to grapple with for many, many years to come. 675 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: And I think it's one of the big questions we 676 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: have to think about in terms of public health in 677 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: this country. You're with us on balance of power this 678 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: week when Governor christ and Nunu joined us, and he's 679 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: arguing with fellow Republicans to say no mandates, but also 680 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: no blocking of mandates. In other words, the government shouldn't 681 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: have anything to do with it. Rick Davis should come 682 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: down to private business is one way or the other. 683 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: Do it the way you want it, but don't have 684 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: it come from Washington. Yeah, I mean that abdicates Washington's leadership, right. 685 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: I mean we've talked quite a bit on this show 686 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: about you know, the proper role of the president using 687 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: his bully pulpit to steer the country in a certain direction, 688 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: and and that the reality is that industry and the 689 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 1: private sector tends to follow the government lead. It's not 690 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: the trailblazer that you would think it would be. Uh. Sure, 691 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: you want industry to make those rules for themselves, you 692 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: want them deciding what's in their self interests. But if 693 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: they get direction from the government without a requirement, right, 694 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: this is the word mandate is what you get into. 695 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 1: Um uh. And remember for almost a year that this president, 696 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, did not want to put a mandate on Right. 697 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: It wasn't until people didn't follow the lead of the 698 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: government and get a job that he then went to 699 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: a mandate. So it wasn't like the instituted this on 700 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: the first day of his president. So was the answer then, 701 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: writing genie language to the extent that Rick suggested here 702 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: that at the end of the public health crisis people 703 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: get their jobs back, that this actually has a timeline. 704 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: I do think that is important to consider, and you know, 705 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: as you are talking about this, I think it's so 706 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: important to note that Joe Biden promised on the campaign 707 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: and is delivering this week this Democracy Summit, and at 708 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: the heart of it are the very questions that we're 709 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: talking about in terms of things like vaccine mandates. You know, 710 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: Freedom House tells us democracy is floundering across the world. 711 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: Part of what this summit is all about, and that 712 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:26,080 Speaker 1: has been exacerbated and underscored by the pandemic and totalitarian 713 00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: states quite frankly enforce vaccinations in a way we don't 714 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: in the democracy. So it's right at the heart of 715 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: what we're talking about. Did you guys get invited to 716 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: the summit? It's a democracy for democracy. We'll talk more 717 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: about it tomorrow on this broadcast, The Fastest Hour in Politics. 718 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: Great to see you guys in person, Rick and Jeanie 719 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,400 Speaker 1: with us on sound on. I'm Joe Matthew. This is 720 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg