1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,240 Julie Wainwright: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Julie Wainwright. 2 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,079 Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,759 Emily Tisch Sussman: with women who dare to pivot out of one career 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: and into something new and explore how their personal lives 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:35,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: impacts these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. Today's 6 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: episode is all about the myth of failure and how 7 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: what we perceive as a whole we may never get 8 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: out of can be the launching pad for something even greater. 9 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: Here today to share her story and bust this myth 10 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: is Julie Wainwright, the founder and former CEO of The 11 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: Real Real, turned author and now CEO again of her 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: new company, Ahara. Julie was at the helm of the 13 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: very beginning of the dot com startups after starting at 14 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Chlorox and building a reputation for herself. She was a 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: known leader, builder and problem solver. 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:10,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: But while she jumped. 17 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: From success to success in the c suite, everything came 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: crashing down when pets dot com crashed under her watch. 19 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: At the time, it was one of the most high 20 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,479 Emily Tisch Sussman: profile casualties of the dot com bubble, and not only 21 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:27,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: did her professional life implode, so did her personal life. 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: Her husband filed for divorce the same week the company 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: went under, and Julie was left devastated. For many people, 24 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: that double blow might have been the end of their 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: career in the spotlight, but Julie's story is not one 26 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:46,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: of defeat. It's of reinvention. Instead of letting failure define her, 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: she used it as fuel. She spent the next decade reflecting, recalibrating, 28 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: and eventually redefining not just her own path, but an 29 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: entire industry. In twenty eleven, Julie founded The Real, Real 30 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: you Know It Heaven on the Internet, the place where 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: you can find incredible designer goods at a fraction of 32 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:10,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: the cost. She paired consignment with technology at a scale 33 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: no one had attempted before. Under her leadership, the company 34 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: grew to millions of users, attracting nearly three hundred million 35 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: in funding, and went public in twenty nineteen, making Julie 36 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: one of the very few women to take a company 37 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: that she founded all the way to IPO. But even 38 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: that chapter didn't end the way she might have hoped. 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: In twenty twenty two, Julie was pushed out of the 40 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: company she built. Another painful moment that many might have 41 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: considered a failure. Yet once again, she refused to let 42 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: it define her. She turned that ending into a new beginning. 43 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Her journey is a reminder that success isn't linear. It's 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: shaped by resilience, by learning from failure, by the courage 45 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: to start again. Today, Julie continues to innovate with her 46 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,799 Emily Tisch Sussman: latest venture in personalized health and nutrition with her company 47 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: at Aha, and she's sharing her story more openly than 48 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: ever in her new memoir, Time to Get Real. We 49 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:13,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: cover it all and more so, without further ado, Welcome, Julie. 50 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,880 Julie Wainwright: I'm Julie Wayne Wright, and I'm an author and entrepreneur. 51 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 3: Perfect okay, great, So tell us about your childhood. What 52 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: was it like? What were your siblings like? Like were 53 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 3: your parents like? 54 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,919 Julie Wainwright: So? Both my parents graduated from the Art inst well, 55 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,880 Julie Wainwright: my father graduated from the Art Institute of Chicago, but 56 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,920 Julie Wainwright: he started at the Academy of Arts and it was merged, 57 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,240 Julie Wainwright: so he was more interested in being a not a 58 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,840 Julie Wainwright: not a fine artist, more of a commercial artist. And 59 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,080 Julie Wainwright: my mother dropped out to maryfy Father, as women did 60 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,760 Julie Wainwright: then occasionally, and she was studying fashion illustration, which used 61 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,800 Julie Wainwright: to be a thing. So they ended up getting married. 62 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,840 Julie Wainwright: They had me about eleven months later, and then things 63 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,240 Julie Wainwright: went awry in their marriage and they separated. They got 64 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,920 Julie Wainwright: back together and had four more kids. And by this 65 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,240 Julie Wainwright: time my mom was twenty eight, so just to give 66 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,880 Julie Wainwright: an age of you know, this was the era when 67 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,840 Julie Wainwright: women tended to have children, a lot of children very 68 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:22,200 Julie Wainwright: quickly at that age. She was hospitalized after about eight 69 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,839 Julie Wainwright: months after she'd given birth, and they said she was dying. 70 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,800 Julie Wainwright: So she didn't die, but she was misdiagnosed when they 71 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,400 Julie Wainwright: said the hospital, the doctor said she was dying. They 72 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,960 Julie Wainwright: thought she had encephalitis. And my dad turned to me 73 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,680 Julie Wainwright: and said I had to step up and help take 74 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,760 Julie Wainwright: care of my sisters and brothers. I was eight. Now 75 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Julie Wainwright: this sounds kind of grim, but the truth is we 76 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,560 Julie Wainwright: still had a lot of fun, which doesn't really make sense, 77 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,240 Julie Wainwright: and I think it does if you understand the fact 78 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,320 Julie Wainwright: that when your parents both parents are creative people, and 79 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,320 Julie Wainwright: my dad was very sporty, so there was always some 80 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,080 Julie Wainwright: great creativity going on. So I'm the oldest of four. 81 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,800 Julie Wainwright: Then I have a sister or brother or sister, who 82 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,279 Julie Wainwright: are you the youngest ones eight years younger than me. 83 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,320 Julie Wainwright: But we had motorcycles, we had go carts we took 84 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,359 Julie Wainwright: because my dad loved fish fishing vacations wasn't really my 85 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,320 Julie Wainwright: favorite thing to do, but being out in the water 86 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,880 Julie Wainwright: was fun. So it was this mixed thing of sort 87 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,640 Julie Wainwright: of looming sadness with my mother but also a lot 88 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,839 Julie Wainwright: of fun the other thing. So you have to go 89 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,520 Julie Wainwright: way back. But you know, child actors weren't really a thing, 90 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,520 Julie Wainwright: especially for ads, so that meant anyone in the neighborhood 91 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,480 Julie Wainwright: was fair game to be on the package of Flintstone 92 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,520 Julie Wainwright: vitamins on ads for cars, we did a remember shooting 93 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,320 Julie Wainwright: believe it or not, Studabakers of all things. They're new 94 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,320 Julie Wainwright: line of cars, and every kid in the neighborhood was 95 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,520 Julie Wainwright: asked to come out. They literally had their parents bring 96 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,640 Julie Wainwright: them to the so they could be part of the shoot. 97 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,560 Julie Wainwright: So it was this neighborhood thing where anyone could be 98 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,719 Julie Wainwright: a star. My brother, my sister and I were all 99 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,200 Julie Wainwright: childhood models for whenever they needed money, he had. You 100 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,760 Julie Wainwright: know this, We worked really, really cheaply. 101 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: Eventually, Julie enrolled in Purdue University and quickly got engaged. 102 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,200 Julie Wainwright: I got engaged at the age of twenty. It sounds 103 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,480 Julie Wainwright: like something my mother did, dropped out of college because 104 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,240 Julie Wainwright: he was finishing his graduate I riveted bumpers on the 105 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,599 Julie Wainwright: Monte Carlo rear line in Anderson, Indiana, in a GM 106 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:43,880 Julie Wainwright: factory because his dad was the general manager for this factory. 107 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,960 Julie Wainwright: So I was a bumper riveter when I was twenty. 108 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: A bumper riveter is basically an assembly technician for cars. 109 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,920 Julie Wainwright: I started in the summer and went until I think November, well, 110 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,000 Julie Wainwright: I know it was until November, and his dad would 111 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,720 Julie Wainwright: explained they were automating the factory and they were having 112 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,240 Julie Wainwright: lots of issues, and so his dad would always like 113 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,760 Julie Wainwright: talk about what the issues were, how they were solving it. 114 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:11,600 Julie Wainwright: And I was on the line, so I knew there 115 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,000 Julie Wainwright: were problems because the line was running stop and start, 116 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,400 Julie Wainwright: and so I got sort of this masterclass and operations, 117 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,360 Julie Wainwright: which was unexpected. Anyway, I called up the wedding. Five 118 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,280 Julie Wainwright: weeks before the wedding, I couldn't put the invitations in 119 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,360 Julie Wainwright: the mailbox. I kept walking them to the mailbox and 120 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,880 Julie Wainwright: I couldn't put it in. Called it off, re enrolled 121 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,360 Julie Wainwright: it Purdue into business. 122 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Julie graduated with the bachelor's in business and set off 123 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: to make it big, becoming one of the first undergraduate 124 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: hires for Chlorox, which meant she had to prove herself 125 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: among a sea of MBA's. 126 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:48,600 Julie Wainwright: Because you know, it's a little intimidating because it was 127 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,320 Julie Wainwright: heavy duty work and a lot of number crunching. They 128 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,400 Julie Wainwright: really sort of wanted to wear you out to see 129 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,080 Julie Wainwright: who made it through the filter. But anyway, so that 130 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,400 Julie Wainwright: was intimidating. But I made it. I got promoted once. 131 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,960 Julie Wainwright: I'm like, okay, maybe I'm okay now. And then the 132 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,400 Julie Wainwright: guy in finance brought in his this was remarkable, his 133 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,960 Julie Wainwright: Apple to computer from home and he smuggled it in 134 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,720 Julie Wainwright: because all of our p and ls we were doing 135 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,120 Julie Wainwright: more hand calculated. We would fill an eight x ten 136 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,440 Julie Wainwright: room with what IF's, what ifs, what ifs. He brings 137 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,320 Julie Wainwright: it in and he's like, Julie watched this and it 138 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,080 Julie Wainwright: was I think it was probably vis account, one of 139 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,880 Julie Wainwright: the first spreadsheets. I'm like, this is the future. I mean, 140 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:34,280 Julie Wainwright: I was so excited. Then I got a call to 141 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,679 Julie Wainwright: join a tech startup and it was my former boss's 142 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,880 Julie Wainwright: wife who had joined this tech startup. He had left Clarox. 143 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,760 Julie Wainwright: He was the brand manager of Clorake's liquid. He left 144 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,920 Julie Wainwright: to do something else. She thought, oh, it's fair picking. 145 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,319 Julie Wainwright: I'm going to come and get her. And I joined 146 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,520 Julie Wainwright: a very small startup called Software Publishing Corporation. 147 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Wow, what was that like to leave it a stable 148 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: job at a legacy company and take a risk at 149 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: a startup before startups were even really much of a thing. 150 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,880 Julie Wainwright: Well, when I left Clorox, the GM of the floor 151 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,640 Julie Wainwright: general manager of the division I was in, literally called 152 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,720 Julie Wainwright: me into his office. It was one of those offices 153 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,520 Julie Wainwright: that didn't have door handles. They had the this is 154 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,880 Julie Wainwright: really creepy, but you had the buttons under his desk 155 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,160 Julie Wainwright: where he can control who came in and came out, 156 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,720 Julie Wainwright: which you know wouldn't fly today for multiple reasons. But 157 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,080 Julie Wainwright: he locked me in and he said, I want you 158 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,040 Julie Wainwright: to know you'll never ever be with such smart people 159 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,360 Julie Wainwright: again in your life. And I can raise the price 160 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,640 Julie Wainwright: of bleached buy half a penny and make more money 161 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,920 Julie Wainwright: than that company you'll ever make. And I'm like, okay, 162 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,080 Julie Wainwright: but you know I was I told him I was young. 163 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,880 Julie Wainwright: I think I was twenty five maybe or going on 164 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,280 Julie Wainwright: twenty five. I was young. I was happy to take 165 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,120 Julie Wainwright: the job. He goes, kind, they're giving you more money, 166 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,080 Julie Wainwright: I said, in fact, they're asking me to take half 167 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,040 Julie Wainwright: my salary because they can't pay me, and I'm all in. 168 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,920 Julie Wainwright: I ran down to the valley started in product management. 169 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,560 Julie Wainwright: The company Software Publishing is best known for inventing presentation graphics. 170 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,079 Julie Wainwright: They came up with a product called Harvard Graphics that 171 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:17,600 Julie Wainwright: then Microsoft had PowerPoint as the equivalent. But Microsoft bought 172 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,679 Julie Wainwright: that product and it was a copycat of Harvard Graphics, 173 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:26,400 Julie Wainwright: but they invented the presentation graphics products. I was working 174 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,960 Julie Wainwright: in product management and they wanted to start international, and 175 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,440 Julie Wainwright: I put my hand up to go overseas to run international. 176 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,120 Julie Wainwright: I had a boss, two of us went over to London, 177 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,760 Julie Wainwright: and our territory was anything outside the US. Back then, 178 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,120 Julie Wainwright: you needed a partner in order to localize, and you 179 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,800 Julie Wainwright: had to worry about printer drivers. You had to worry 180 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,720 Julie Wainwright: about a lot of things. And he got fired and 181 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,880 Julie Wainwright: so I ran international out of a small office in 182 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,080 Julie Wainwright: London and German Street, which meant and I was twenty 183 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:01,680 Julie Wainwright: seven maybe, which meant that I was in Paris, Barcelona, Munich, Paris, 184 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,280 Julie Wainwright: m Munich quite a bit, Barcelona less, Milana little less, 185 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,760 Julie Wainwright: but every month, sometimes twice a month, three times a month. 186 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,040 Julie Wainwright: And then I was in Brazil every four months. I 187 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,000 Julie Wainwright: was in Australia and New Zealand every four months, Hong 188 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,760 Julie Wainwright: Kong and Singapore every three months. So I was traveling 189 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,679 Julie Wainwright: the world doing deals in my twenties, showing up and 190 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,160 Julie Wainwright: of course, you know, it's a new industry. The people 191 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,720 Julie Wainwright: embracing it are new, no women, so every time I'd 192 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,440 Julie Wainwright: show up, they'd be like, who are you? But then 193 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,160 Julie Wainwright: everything settled down. So did that and then joined US. 194 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,640 Julie Wainwright: I mean, this is a lot big resume, but I 195 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,720 Julie Wainwright: think the bottom line is what I learned. There was 196 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,640 Julie Wainwright: incredible skill, which was to set my priorities and set 197 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,600 Julie Wainwright: my own goals really tightly. Because the company didn't have 198 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,800 Julie Wainwright: just one product, had multiple products, so I had to 199 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,200 Julie Wainwright: pick my partners, pick my products to be localized, help 200 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,240 Julie Wainwright: them market it, get it out in the field, and 201 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,400 Julie Wainwright: make all of that because I was sort of left 202 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,680 Julie Wainwright: alone to do my thing because the main market was 203 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,959 Julie Wainwright: the US obviously, so gave me a lot of freedom, 204 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,960 Julie Wainwright: a lot of responsibility, and a lot of accountability. 205 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: From there, Julie went on to run and grow a 206 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: number of different companies. She was hired as the VP 207 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,559 Emily Tisch Sussman: of Sales and Marketing at a company called Berkeley Systems, 208 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: which was on the brink of failing. Soon Julie was 209 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: asked to step up and become the president and then 210 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: CEO to turn the company around. 211 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,400 Julie Wainwright: I got the business too, I don't know between twenty 212 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:34,480 Julie Wainwright: five and forty million. 213 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: So we're all of your goals at that point to 214 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: run a company, you ended up climbing very quickly and 215 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: taking on big portfolios. 216 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: Were those your goals or did your goals shift as 217 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:45,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: you were moving up. 218 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,679 Julie Wainwright: I didn't really have that as a goal. My goal 219 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,480 Julie Wainwright: was to First of all, I loved the tech world, 220 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:56,079 Julie Wainwright: and I love consumer tech, and I am by nature 221 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,679 Julie Wainwright: an accountable person, so I loved making things happen. When 222 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,240 Julie Wainwright: I was promoted to CEO, I didn't turn the opportunity down, 223 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,880 Julie Wainwright: but I wasn't aiming for it. Now. The interesting thing 224 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,240 Julie Wainwright: about it, Once I started doing the job, it felt 225 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,840 Julie Wainwright: like a relief because I knew what to do, and 226 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,360 Julie Wainwright: I knew the company needed to move quickly to fix 227 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,920 Julie Wainwright: the problems they had, and I didn't have to fight 228 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:28,240 Julie Wainwright: everyone to do it. So I felt like, to be honest, 229 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,560 Julie Wainwright: if I wouldn't have gotten that job, the company probably 230 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,360 Julie Wainwright: wouldn't have been there because they had no or they 231 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,080 Julie Wainwright: would have had to bring in another candidate to turn 232 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,199 Julie Wainwright: it around. It was in trouble. So it just felt like, no, 233 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,880 Julie Wainwright: I can make I know I can turn this company around, 234 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,600 Julie Wainwright: you know. And of course I was conscious of if 235 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,400 Julie Wainwright: a if someone else turned and came in and didn't 236 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,040 Julie Wainwright: turn around, this would be better. It was like my 237 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:57,520 Julie Wainwright: first big job after moving back from London. And secondly, 238 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,960 Julie Wainwright: if I didn't do it, my career would be in trouble. 239 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,319 Julie Wainwright: So I felt like this was a I did recognize 240 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,960 Julie Wainwright: it as a pivotal moment for my career, but it 241 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,400 Julie Wainwright: wasn't necessarily my goal. But I turned it around, and 242 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,640 Julie Wainwright: it wasn't just me. I had a really good CFO 243 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,280 Julie Wainwright: I was working at and we just lockstep did the 244 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,480 Julie Wainwright: right thing, and the board of let us do it. 245 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: Was there any conversation at that point you mentioned that 246 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: there were no other women, especially when you were working internationally, 247 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: but it was just not a space that there were 248 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: a lot of women in executive roles. Was that any 249 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: part of the conversation and making you the president and 250 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: then CEO or it just wasn't even discussed. 251 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,480 Julie Wainwright: No. Never, But I have to say, here's the interesting thing. 252 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,120 Julie Wainwright: Software publishing my first venture into tech was full of 253 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,520 Julie Wainwright: amazing women. There was a male founder, his name was 254 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,480 Julie Wainwright: Fred Gibbons, but at that time there were tons of 255 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,800 Julie Wainwright: women on the very very early stages in tech. And 256 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,640 Julie Wainwright: as the businesses grew and became more substantial, the software businesses, 257 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,880 Julie Wainwright: especially the business to business, more and more men came in. 258 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,920 Julie Wainwright: More and more. In fact, yeah, more and more men came. 259 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,240 Julie Wainwright: People from IBM started coming. So in the early eighties 260 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,000 Julie Wainwright: when I joined, which was about eighty four eighty five, 261 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,520 Julie Wainwright: it was really a lot of women doing cool things. 262 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,120 Julie Wainwright: And then by now I'm at Berkeley Systems almost no women. 263 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,080 Julie Wainwright: So it happened quickly. I would say that as the 264 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,280 Julie Wainwright: business became more solidified and venture capital was also getting 265 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,320 Julie Wainwright: more solidified, the opportunities did go to more men. 266 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: And I always just sort of like to pause and 267 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: dual track to the personal. As you were rising up 268 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: in your career and now you've become an executive at 269 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: multiple companies. You had mentioned that you had married previously 270 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: when you were in London then moved back over to 271 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: the US. What was give us an update on the 272 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: personal side as you were rising through these companies. 273 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,720 Julie Wainwright: Well, I did do another stint with another company overseas 274 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,840 Julie Wainwright: from ninety to ninety three, and that's when I met 275 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,280 Julie Wainwright: my future husband over there. We ended up moving back 276 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,720 Julie Wainwright: to the States. So first of all, he was still 277 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:14,120 Julie Wainwright: acclimating to being in the States and the UK, the 278 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,480 Julie Wainwright: world he grew up in. He went to public school, 279 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,840 Julie Wainwright: which went private school. He was considered an upper middle 280 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,680 Julie Wainwright: class guy. He did a lot of work there that 281 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,440 Julie Wainwright: he felt he had to requalify in the States. So 282 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,080 Julie Wainwright: we had an extra problem with him just coming to 283 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,240 Julie Wainwright: the States, which he was excited to do, but the 284 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,080 Julie Wainwright: culture was harder for him to adapt to. He felt 285 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:43,120 Julie Wainwright: it was way too money driven, and so we had 286 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,880 Julie Wainwright: that so it was hard. And then you know, when 287 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,240 Julie Wainwright: you're running a company and you're turning around a company, 288 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,560 Julie Wainwright: it takes a lot out of you. So I would 289 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,880 Julie Wainwright: say we were married eight years and moved to the States. 290 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,400 Julie Wainwright: Was harder than we both anticipated. 291 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: Julie had proven herself as a leader and a fixer 292 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: in the tech world, and soon she was tapped to 293 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: run another company that was on the brink of collapse. 294 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: When we come back, Julie talks about pets dot Com 295 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: and how that experience impacted her professionally and personally. 296 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,520 Julie Wainwright: And then I was asked to run a company called 297 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,440 Julie Wainwright: pets dot Com. First of all, I was very conscious 298 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,640 Julie Wainwright: there was a bubble, by the way, so I think 299 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,200 Julie Wainwright: we all were at that time. But I mean, the 300 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,000 Julie Wainwright: pets category is huge. It felt like a good risk. 301 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,760 Julie Wainwright: It felt like something Amazon wasn't going to get into 302 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,280 Julie Wainwright: right away. Amazon gave us a lot of capital. We 303 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,719 Julie Wainwright: thought maybe we could actually get the business going and 304 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,080 Julie Wainwright: sell it to Amazon. Drugstore dot Com was doing a 305 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,800 Julie Wainwright: similar strategy. I knew I could do it. I mean, 306 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,520 Julie Wainwright: I've already been in the e commerce space very early. 307 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,440 Julie Wainwright: I knew I could put together a team and build 308 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,200 Julie Wainwright: a great business. I love pets, by the way, and 309 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,240 Julie Wainwright: the venture capital from hummerwind Blood came with a lot 310 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,800 Julie Wainwright: of money. Amazon also backed us, and I thought, oh, 311 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,199 Julie Wainwright: this is good. I mean, I was conscious of a 312 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,040 Julie Wainwright: bubble though that money would possibly dry up. However, we 313 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,399 Julie Wainwright: did raise a lot of money. There were I think 314 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,080 Julie Wainwright: six other pets companies funded at the exact same time, 315 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,879 Julie Wainwright: which is insane, but it shows you the lemming nature 316 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,640 Julie Wainwright: of venture capital. And also, I always believe this there 317 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,320 Julie Wainwright: was something in the collective conscious that people are like, oh, pets, 318 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,720 Julie Wainwright: you know, because it wasn't it's not just a BC's 319 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,439 Julie Wainwright: being lemmings. It's also people are absorbing this opportunity and 320 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,679 Julie Wainwright: saying this is a huge category, and a lot of 321 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,760 Julie Wainwright: companies were funded. So took it public, by the way, 322 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,639 Julie Wainwright: got it again, took a public really early, got it 323 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,960 Julie Wainwright: to about twenty five million when we were on the 324 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,440 Julie Wainwright: road show twenty five heading to fifty because we were doubling. 325 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,880 Julie Wainwright: We were on the road show, Amazon announced their nineteen 326 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,040 Julie Wainwright: ninety nine earnings and they had lost almost a billion 327 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:28,120 Julie Wainwright: dollars and people were shocked. They weren't expecting that sizeable loss, 328 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,440 Julie Wainwright: and our meetings for investors started shutting down on the 329 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,240 Julie Wainwright: road show. So we got the deal done. The stock 330 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:40,600 Julie Wainwright: did not perform well on its first day, so there 331 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,320 Julie Wainwright: was you know, lots of fun press there or something 332 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,960 Julie Wainwright: like oh you know, the dogs didn't need the dog 333 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,760 Julie Wainwright: food and blah blah blah. And then honestly, the window 334 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,080 Julie Wainwright: of financing shut. So instead of like celebrating the IPO, 335 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,639 Julie Wainwright: the first thing I did is come back and cut 336 00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:59,720 Julie Wainwright: staff and say, look, it's going to be a rough 337 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,280 Julie Wainwright: ride here because we've got to make our money last. 338 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,080 Julie Wainwright: So funding dried up, and a year later I shut 339 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,720 Julie Wainwright: the company down to give money back to shareholders, which 340 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,639 Julie Wainwright: I would argue was wrong now, and it was wrong 341 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,080 Julie Wainwright: because with the information I had at the time that 342 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,600 Julie Wainwright: the window for funding wasn't going to open up again, 343 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,840 Julie Wainwright: and that this was the prudent thing to do for 344 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,800 Julie Wainwright: the investors, that we would never make it. I couldn't 345 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,920 Julie Wainwright: cut my way into success. I really needed to raise 346 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:38,240 Julie Wainwright: more capital to fund this e commerce business, and the 347 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,840 Julie Wainwright: premise was the window would not open up for another 348 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,520 Julie Wainwright: two years and then we'd have to declare bankruptcy and 349 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,159 Julie Wainwright: everyone would lose. But we had a window of opportunity 350 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,840 Julie Wainwright: where I had a net positive work to give money 351 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,520 Julie Wainwright: back to shareholders. The SEC has never seen this happen, 352 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,240 Julie Wainwright: so we had to work with them. So I shut 353 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,640 Julie Wainwright: it down and gave money back to shareholders, and gave 354 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,879 Julie Wainwright: employees a off ramp with a little bit a severance, 355 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Julie Wainwright: and held jod fares. Everyone reported that I ran into bankruptcy. 356 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,320 Julie Wainwright: I didn't, but I should have, and I'll tell you 357 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,040 Julie Wainwright: why I should have. I could have been wrong. Everyone 358 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,800 Julie Wainwright: could have been wrong. The funding window could have opened up. 359 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,080 Julie Wainwright: And what had happened was, while there were six original 360 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,840 Julie Wainwright: companies competing with pets dot Com, all of those were 361 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,040 Julie Wainwright: falling by the wayside very quickly or being asked us 362 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,640 Julie Wainwright: to fold in. So I could have been wrong, and 363 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,320 Julie Wainwright: I should have played it out. But because I shut 364 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,080 Julie Wainwright: it down and I was sort of the barometer of 365 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,560 Julie Wainwright: the pets dot Com bust, it became sort of a 366 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,680 Julie Wainwright: huge prece event that was incredibly negative, which I didn't anticipate, 367 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:44,879 Julie Wainwright: but I guess I should have. 368 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Well, But so that was probably sort of a second shock. 369 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: I mean, taking a company to shut it down is 370 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: I can imagine difficult, both from a business perspective andrew emotionally. 371 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: To feel like, you know, you've worked so hard to 372 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: build it up, to keep it going, and now you've 373 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: the decision to shut it down, and then to be 374 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: really second guessed and kind of vilified in the press 375 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: must be like a whole second wave. 376 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,639 Julie Wainwright: It literally my husband asked me for a divorce the 377 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,520 Julie Wainwright: day I was shutting down pets dot Com. My career 378 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,960 Julie Wainwright: blew up and my marriage blew up. Then I had 379 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,760 Julie Wainwright: that moment, oh no, now I've really got to figure 380 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,680 Julie Wainwright: out the kids thing. And I was forty two going 381 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:29,399 Julie Wainwright: on forty three. So look, it was really, really, really dark, 382 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,320 Julie Wainwright: and it just it felt unbelievable. Clearly there was tension 383 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,480 Julie Wainwright: in the marriage and we had done counseling, but it 384 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:43,480 Julie Wainwright: just felt unbelievable. I saw him, really didn't see him 385 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,080 Julie Wainwright: again for about five or six years. We didn't have kids, 386 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,280 Julie Wainwright: so it was more the divorce proceedings were handled through lawyers. 387 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,760 Julie Wainwright: We talked, but not nicely. 388 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: Despite it all, it wasn't the breakdown of her marriage 389 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,639 Emily Tisch Sussman: that weighed on her. Then it was pets dot Com. 390 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,640 Julie Wainwright: But what I did take on, and I'm sure they're interconnected, 391 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,760 Julie Wainwright: was the failure of pets dot Com. I sort of 392 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,080 Julie Wainwright: wore that longer than I did my failed marriage, which 393 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,720 Julie Wainwright: is I'm sure they're entertangled. But I was constantly being 394 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,840 Julie Wainwright: told what a failure I was for pets dot Com 395 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,240 Julie Wainwright: in social settings and weird things that reporters were still 396 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,960 Julie Wainwright: asking me about it a year later, and no one 397 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,879 Julie Wainwright: wasn't asking me about my failed marriage. So you know, 398 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,600 Julie Wainwright: I was constantly getting reinforced on the pets dot Com thing, 399 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,960 Julie Wainwright: which was really hard, and I bought into being a 400 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,040 Julie Wainwright: failure totally. I just owned it, and it sucks that 401 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,879 Julie Wainwright: I did that, but I did. And then at some 402 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,760 Julie Wainwright: point I took stock that I was just bringing my past. 403 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,199 Julie Wainwright: It took a long time, but I was really bringing 404 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,639 Julie Wainwright: my past into my current and it was going to 405 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:00,240 Julie Wainwright: ruin me. 406 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Do you remember the moment that helped pull you out 407 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:03,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: of that place? 408 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,920 Julie Wainwright: I would say the baseball game, watching my friend do 409 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,920 Julie Wainwright: stats and realizing that the best hitters missed sixty five 410 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,400 Julie Wainwright: percent of the time. I'm like, but I've only missed once. 411 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:21,040 Julie Wainwright: You know, I've got to stop this. And also when 412 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,919 Julie Wainwright: the recruiter, I took some bad jobs and I was 413 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,800 Julie Wainwright: only offered dregs, and the recruiter said to me, no 414 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,679 Julie Wainwright: one's going to offer you a good job. You have 415 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,840 Julie Wainwright: pets dot Com looming large, and you have you know, 416 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,280 Julie Wainwright: you haven't really done much since it, and you're just, 417 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,600 Julie Wainwright: you know, really, basically your career in Silicon Valley is 418 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,760 Julie Wainwright: basically over. And that, oddly enough, was such a good 419 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,200 Julie Wainwright: wake up call. It was sort of the final straw, 420 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,880 Julie Wainwright: you know, even though I'd been eking my way out 421 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,320 Julie Wainwright: toward a healthier mentality for a while. And that's when 422 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,639 Julie Wainwright: I thought, you know, screw you. First, I thought what 423 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,560 Julie Wainwright: he said was valid, all right, I thought he's right, 424 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,640 Julie Wainwright: But screw everyone. I know what I'm made of more 425 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,639 Julie Wainwright: than other people. And I'm going to either start my 426 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,600 Julie Wainwright: own company or I'm going to have a plan B. 427 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,840 Julie Wainwright: But I think I can do this. I didn't know 428 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,240 Julie Wainwright: what I was going to do, but I mean, look, 429 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,680 Julie Wainwright: it was way. I lived in that negativity too long. 430 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,360 Julie Wainwright: I really beat myself up too long. And look, every 431 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,920 Julie Wainwright: time I turned around, someone else was reinforcing it. Even 432 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,000 Julie Wainwright: at social events. You know, this person came up and said, oh, 433 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,560 Julie Wainwright: I heard you're the CEO of pets dot Com, laughed 434 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,600 Julie Wainwright: in my face and said, what were you thinking? You know, 435 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,080 Julie Wainwright: so it was like you just felt like you had 436 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,919 Julie Wainwright: to pull in or leave, and I don't know, it 437 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:40,320 Julie Wainwright: was bad. 438 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Julie picked up the pieces and started to move on, 439 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: working with various companies for the next decade or so 440 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: to make ends meet. After the break, we talked with 441 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: Julie about what eventually led her to found the Real 442 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: Real Stay Tuned. 443 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,399 Julie Wainwright: And then with the Real Rail. It really I was 444 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,040 Julie Wainwright: down to two years of cash in the bank. The 445 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,760 Julie Wainwright: divorce really hurt my financial future, as it does many people, 446 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,159 Julie Wainwright: and I had two years of capital. I had the house. 447 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,800 Julie Wainwright: I had the house which was paid for, but I 448 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,959 Julie Wainwright: thought I needed to put it on the market and 449 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,560 Julie Wainwright: I took out a lean against it to get started, 450 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,399 Julie Wainwright: but I gave myself two years to have a success. 451 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,680 Julie Wainwright: I knew I wanted to get back in e commerce 452 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,320 Julie Wainwright: because it was easier now and cheaper to try things, 453 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,679 Julie Wainwright: much cheaper to try things. The world had evolved technically 454 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,359 Julie Wainwright: on every level, and I knew I wanted to do 455 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,200 Julie Wainwright: something Amazon couldn't do. So I had mapped out the 456 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,719 Julie Wainwright: I knew them very very well. I'd mapped out their 457 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,640 Julie Wainwright: strengths and weaknesses. I knew they would never be able 458 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,040 Julie Wainwright: to go into luxury. And then when I was shopping 459 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,359 Julie Wainwright: with a girlfriend and she bought luxury consignment in a 460 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,119 Julie Wainwright: full price boutique that was selling shoes in the front, 461 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,600 Julie Wainwright: had a little bit of luxury consignment in the back. 462 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,879 Julie Wainwright: That's when the light bulb went out. And when it 463 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,840 Julie Wainwright: went on, it was so hard. And I questioned her 464 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,119 Julie Wainwright: when we got out about eBay and shopping, and I 465 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,560 Julie Wainwright: knew she didn't shop another consignment source. I'm like, what happened? 466 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,719 Julie Wainwright: Why did you do this? What's this? What's that? And 467 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,640 Julie Wainwright: I remember I was so excited, like this is the answer, 468 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,480 Julie Wainwright: this is it? Yeah? 469 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: What was it? 470 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:28,280 Julie Wainwright: Like? 471 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:29,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: What was the unlock for you? 472 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,360 Julie Wainwright: Oh? My gosh, what was luxury? Right? It was luxury, 473 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,600 Julie Wainwright: and it was luxury I could actually resell myself. Then 474 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,120 Julie Wainwright: I just had to figure out this why she shopped there. 475 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,040 Julie Wainwright: All good information. She shopped there because she trusted the 476 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,720 Julie Wainwright: owner that it was authentic, because the owner knew the 477 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,920 Julie Wainwright: person I dropped it off. She loved they were high 478 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,800 Julie Wainwright: end products, so it was like Gucci product Louis Vuitton 479 00:27:55,240 --> 00:28:00,000 Julie Wainwright: loved it. Great condition, they were beautifully displayed, beautifully merchandise. 480 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,359 Julie Wainwright: So she wasn't walking into a consignment store. She's walking 481 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,119 Julie Wainwright: into a beautiful, full price shoe store at the beginning. 482 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,359 Julie Wainwright: And then this in the back. She had never consigned before, 483 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,720 Julie Wainwright: would never shop a debate, felt there were too many fakes, 484 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,480 Julie Wainwright: never walked into a consignment store. Yet in the right environment, 485 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,320 Julie Wainwright: that was her choice. And by the way, she had 486 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,879 Julie Wainwright: a lot of money she still does. She didn't need to. 487 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,800 Julie Wainwright: It wasn't a financial decision. It was a value decision. 488 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,600 Julie Wainwright: She's like, everyone loves a good deal and who cares 489 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,760 Julie Wainwright: if someone else wore it? All? Right? Who cares? And 490 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,239 Julie Wainwright: I'm like, this is the answer. Then I had to 491 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,120 Julie Wainwright: solve the supply problem. That I went home. I mapped 492 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,880 Julie Wainwright: out the whole business. Knew it would be a supply issue, 493 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,840 Julie Wainwright: not a demand issue. I knew it had to keep 494 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,640 Julie Wainwright: I call it the romance of the brand alive. It 495 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,520 Julie Wainwright: had to keep that alive. It had to price set 496 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,480 Julie Wainwright: a good value. And I had to make sure that 497 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,760 Julie Wainwright: we learned how to authenticate everything because we had to 498 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,720 Julie Wainwright: build that trust for the consumer. We had to authenticate 499 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,640 Julie Wainwright: for the consigner. We had to offer a service. She's like, 500 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,200 Julie Wainwright: I don't have time to drop things off and sort 501 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,320 Julie Wainwright: through them at a consignment store, And I thought, yeah, 502 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,760 Julie Wainwright: I don't either. In fact, I never thought about consigning, 503 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,600 Julie Wainwright: and I had stuff in my closet, so that's what 504 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,960 Julie Wainwright: I used to test out different models that and I'm like, no, 505 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,200 Julie Wainwright: I can do this. I can build. We have to 506 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,320 Julie Wainwright: come to your house. We have to focus on luxury. 507 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,520 Julie Wainwright: That's where the demand is. I had sized the market 508 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,520 Julie Wainwright: the best I could, and I just got started that night, 509 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Julie Wainwright: and that was the beginning of the real reil. And honestly, 510 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:42,920 Julie Wainwright: I knew it would be hard to raise money because 511 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,600 Julie Wainwright: I still had the puppet on my shoulder sitting there 512 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,240 Julie Wainwright: going You're a failure, not in my mind, but in 513 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,080 Julie Wainwright: other people's minds, and so I knew I had to 514 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,240 Julie Wainwright: figure out how to get the business model completely sussed out, 515 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,240 Julie Wainwright: and I got the business to ten million before I 516 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,400 Julie Wainwright: did my first round a venture capital. 517 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Get ready to become obsessed with the real reel because 518 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: there's always new pieces from Praduct, Gucci, Louis Vuitton and more. 519 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,200 Julie Wainwright: The real reel is actually killing it right now. So 520 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,840 Julie Wainwright: let me just give you the highlights. We may have 521 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,080 Julie Wainwright: done a little bit of shopping on the reil rail, 522 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,920 Julie Wainwright: so let me show you what I got a little 523 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,880 Julie Wainwright: crazy on the real road. This is just part on. 524 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,080 Julie Wainwright: First off, we have this stunning sale. 525 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: The real reel could be poised to make a killing. 526 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: This has a powerful. 527 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: Concept that I think the department stores should have adopted 528 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:34,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: ahead of it. 529 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,240 Julie Wainwright: And you know, the business went ten like ten. It 530 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,560 Julie Wainwright: really went ten. We sort of skipped but let's just 531 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,440 Julie Wainwright: say it was twenty five, but we sort of skipped 532 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,480 Julie Wainwright: over it because it was a half year. So then 533 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,800 Julie Wainwright: to fifty to one hundred to two fifty to five 534 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,840 Julie Wainwright: hundred and sev fifty to public get a billion. 535 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: After it went public, Julie had once again proven herself 536 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: as a leader and builder, and she created an entirely 537 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: new industry, but the road bumps weren't over quite yet. 538 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: As she details in her book Time to Get Real, 539 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Julie was suddenly and quickly pushed out of the real real. 540 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:19,200 Julie Wainwright: So then, let me just say, I am not a 541 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,080 Julie Wainwright: political person. I'm a person that gets stuff done. This 542 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,280 Julie Wainwright: is the beauty of doing startups is it is more 543 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,880 Julie Wainwright: of a meritocracy. It has to be because everyone counts. 544 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,360 Julie Wainwright: So I don't understand politics. I've never wanted to be 545 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,800 Julie Wainwright: in a company where politics move the needle. And what 546 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,560 Julie Wainwright: I didn't realize is one of the This is my hypothesis, 547 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,960 Julie Wainwright: by the way, because I was never given a real answer. 548 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,000 Julie Wainwright: But my hypothesis is the board member, the last money 549 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,440 Julie Wainwright: in guy didn't get his money out when the stock 550 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,120 Julie Wainwright: was big, and he could have, but he didn't. You 551 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,080 Julie Wainwright: had to get off the board to do it. So 552 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,320 Julie Wainwright: he didn't get off the board to sell opportunistically. You 553 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,000 Julie Wainwright: had to get off the board because the company was 554 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,600 Julie Wainwright: public and there's sec laws. Everyone else, all the other 555 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,840 Julie Wainwright: early investors got off there all yay, we made a 556 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,800 Julie Wainwright: lot of money. He didn't, and the stock fell, and 557 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,880 Julie Wainwright: it really fell during COVID for COVID reasons, and my 558 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,560 Julie Wainwright: theory is he was working against me because he thought 559 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,400 Julie Wainwright: he could run the company better and they wanted to 560 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,920 Julie Wainwright: bring in someone that would be told what to do, 561 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,440 Julie Wainwright: and I wasn't aware of it. And then I didn't 562 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,680 Julie Wainwright: help myself because I did use some very choice and 563 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,960 Julie Wainwright: all my board members were pretty much new too, because 564 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,000 Julie Wainwright: all my original board members again that knew me, had 565 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,880 Julie Wainwright: gotten off to sell their stock. So I had some 566 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,240 Julie Wainwright: new ones. I made some really I would say, unfortunate 567 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,960 Julie Wainwright: recommendations for the real real board. I think it was 568 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,280 Julie Wainwright: a value and experience miss online. They had sector experience, 569 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,960 Julie Wainwright: but they'd never worked with the founder, they'd never seen 570 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,120 Julie Wainwright: high growth in a company. They weren't tech backed, so 571 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,040 Julie Wainwright: big mistake. And during COVID, the business was really struggling 572 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,160 Julie Wainwright: and we did a lot of extraordinary things to keep 573 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,000 Julie Wainwright: it going, and he was working. I had a new 574 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,880 Julie Wainwright: CFO and he's like, hey, he's working against you. He's 575 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,200 Julie Wainwright: got there's a little Troy cup forim. I just feel it. 576 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,959 Julie Wainwright: I feel it, And I did let loose in a 577 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,640 Julie Wainwright: board meeting and because he was lying, and I just 578 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,400 Julie Wainwright: and I used a lot of cuss words, which everyone 579 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,320 Julie Wainwright: was shocked. The women on the board who were all 580 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,520 Julie Wainwright: corporate women were shocked, and one of them told me, 581 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,440 Julie Wainwright: I was I didn't know how to be a good leader, 582 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,400 Julie Wainwright: and so let's just say it all went downhill, and 583 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,280 Julie Wainwright: four months later I was fired. Now, when they fired me, 584 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,080 Julie Wainwright: they said it's because I didn't hit my number just 585 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,560 Julie Wainwright: during COVID. But the person they brought in was a 586 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,440 Julie Wainwright: had been a employee that had never been a CFO, 587 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,120 Julie Wainwright: I mean CEO ever, never run a public company. He 588 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,720 Julie Wainwright: used to work for one of the board members and 589 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:54,120 Julie Wainwright: a department sort that subsequently filed bankruptcy, and luckily he 590 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,400 Julie Wainwright: didn't last long. This is my perspective. He was let go, 591 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:02,479 Julie Wainwright: and Rochie Levac, who was the first employee who in 592 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,520 Julie Wainwright: its succession planning would have been my recommendation, is now 593 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,800 Julie Wainwright: running the company. So it was treacherous to get fired 594 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,879 Julie Wainwright: from your own company. It was a big betrayal, I think. 595 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,400 Julie Wainwright: But I mean, like I said, I didn't help myself. 596 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,719 Julie Wainwright: And honestly, I'm objective enough. If someone wanted to have 597 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,239 Julie Wainwright: the dialogue about do you think it's time to move 598 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,319 Julie Wainwright: on Tessasar, I would have said no, But I would 599 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,239 Julie Wainwright: have had an open dialogue and laid out a succession plan. 600 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,520 Julie Wainwright: But I think this guy had turned the board against 601 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,200 Julie Wainwright: me and there you go. 602 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Wow, So now you had to overcome yet another huge 603 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: career change. 604 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,839 Emily Tisch Sussman: How did you move on from it? 605 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,120 Julie Wainwright: So, you know, the first six months after getting fired, 606 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,480 Julie Wainwright: I visualized horrible things happening to every board member. I 607 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,200 Julie Wainwright: had a visual voodoo doll, and that gave me a 608 00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,800 Julie Wainwright: lot of satisfaction. And then it didn't. Then it felt 609 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,719 Julie Wainwright: like a bad use of my time. And you know, 610 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:58,880 Julie Wainwright: not getting any younger, I don't want to spend my 611 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,160 Julie Wainwright: time thinking about that. And like I said, I mean, unfortunately, 612 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,480 Julie Wainwright: people were calling me telling me stories about the new CEO, 613 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,760 Julie Wainwright: which I sort of relished and I sort of didn't 614 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,799 Julie Wainwright: want to know because I couldn't do anything about it. 615 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,480 Julie Wainwright: But they weren't good stories. Obviously. They weren't calling me 616 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,480 Julie Wainwright: saying like this is the best person, and you know 617 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,760 Julie Wainwright: who knows I wasn't on the inside. So that's the story. 618 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,880 Julie Wainwright: You got to get over it. I mean, life is short. 619 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,080 Julie Wainwright: But I'll tell you what I wrote about all of 620 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,879 Julie Wainwright: this in the book, and I'll tell you why. Very 621 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,200 Julie Wainwright: seldom do women write books and men where they talk 622 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,120 Julie Wainwright: about their mistakes, what they would have done differently, and 623 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,680 Julie Wainwright: things that aren't always positive, so I think, you know, 624 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,160 Julie Wainwright: my biggest mistake was I couldn't have helped this guy 625 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,799 Julie Wainwright: and get off the board and not sell a stock. 626 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,960 Julie Wainwright: He made bad choices, But I did have people on 627 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,960 Julie Wainwright: the board that weren't aligned really with They should not 628 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,040 Julie Wainwright: have been. I recommended them. They had to be voted 629 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,640 Julie Wainwright: by the public, but they were not recommendations for the 630 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,480 Julie Wainwright: type of company. It really should have been tech people 631 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,799 Julie Wainwright: that had some startup experience, that understood to move the 632 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,160 Julie Wainwright: company forward. It wasn't them. And then someone said to me, 633 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,879 Julie Wainwright: this is really important for women to hear someone recently said, 634 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,280 Julie Wainwright: and I thought, oh, that's probably true too. Women hire 635 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,880 Julie Wainwright: people they think will add value to the company, and 636 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,600 Julie Wainwright: men hire people that will support them. And I think 637 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,360 Julie Wainwright: that's probably true too. But I have to say the 638 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,600 Julie Wainwright: real real was it is a great company. I love 639 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,600 Julie Wainwright: that we brought sustainability forward. I love that the business 640 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,640 Julie Wainwright: is now being run by Rati, and I love that 641 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:39,400 Julie Wainwright: I founded it. 642 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: What is one thing? 643 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: It could be something we've talked about already, or something different, 644 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,759 Emily Tisch Sussman: something that at the time you saw is really a 645 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: low point and now you see it as having really 646 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: launched you to who you are today. 647 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:57,120 Julie Wainwright: Well, there's more than one. I think. Look, everything I 648 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,680 Julie Wainwright: went through as a kid prepared me with phenomenal resilience 649 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,319 Julie Wainwright: and that I wouldn't wish on anyone, but it is. 650 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,720 Julie Wainwright: It built my character. And also I did come from 651 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,439 Julie Wainwright: I would say my dad helped, and my mother helped 652 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,640 Julie Wainwright: when she could help. I did have like supportive parents. 653 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,920 Julie Wainwright: But I mean, there's been a lot of dark times. 654 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,520 Julie Wainwright: I don't think. I think you know, the thing is 655 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,560 Julie Wainwright: you can escape things when they go wrong. You just can't. 656 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,399 Julie Wainwright: Things are going to be bad, you know. I felt 657 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,040 Julie Wainwright: like I had a big scarlet a on me or 658 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,640 Julie Wainwright: how about a big scarlet pe for pets you know 659 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,760 Julie Wainwright: when I left. So yeah, and the fact that people 660 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,719 Julie Wainwright: still love talking about. But I mean there's a whole 661 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,120 Julie Wainwright: generation that don't even know what it was. So I 662 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,480 Julie Wainwright: would say, if I can come through it, anyone can 663 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,920 Julie Wainwright: come through it. And you just can't let other people 664 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,040 Julie Wainwright: define you. And you only have one life and they 665 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,799 Julie Wainwright: don't know what you're capable of, only you do. So 666 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,520 Julie Wainwright: then it becomes if pets dot Com wouldn't have failed, 667 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,440 Julie Wainwright: I wouldn't have started the real real Even though it 668 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,040 Julie Wainwright: took a long time, it was honestly, it's such a 669 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,319 Julie Wainwright: great company. It's so good for the environment. It was 670 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,040 Julie Wainwright: so much fun, and it was so much fun, and 671 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,200 Julie Wainwright: it was I was excited every day, you know, I 672 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,080 Julie Wainwright: said my dad was excited every day. I was excited 673 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,880 Julie Wainwright: every day to go in the office. And when you 674 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,080 Julie Wainwright: ask people about it that were especially there in the 675 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,560 Julie Wainwright: early days, COVID was hard on the company and hard 676 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,600 Julie Wainwright: on everyone personally, but they were like, I have never 677 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,319 Julie Wainwright: left that hard and had so much fun and had 678 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,600 Julie Wainwright: so much success, and that was sort of the vibe 679 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:34,640 Julie Wainwright: in the company. 680 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,399 Emily Tisch Sussman: That's the dream it was. Well, thank you so much 681 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: for sharing all of that with us, Julie. It's really 682 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: incredible to have you on. 683 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:42,440 Julie Wainwright: Thank you. 684 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,319 Emily Tisch Sussman: I love hearing all the stories behind it. 685 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,520 Julie Wainwright: Thank you, Oh Emily, thank you so much. I really 686 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,239 Julie Wainwright: loved your podcast. I sort of got addicted to it. 687 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,000 Julie Wainwright: I couldn't stop listening. I'm like, I got to stop this. 688 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,160 Julie Wainwright: Oh no, So was I going to tell you? You know, 689 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,600 Julie Wainwright: I listened to usually music when I work out, but 690 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,880 Julie Wainwright: I'm like, no, no, I didn't want to stop the podcast. 691 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,800 Julie Wainwright: So thank you for doing what you're doing. 692 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: Oh I love that so much. Oh, thank you. 693 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: Julie is focused on sharing her latest book, Time to 694 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: Get Real, as well as building her new company, Ahara. 695 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: To keep up with Julie and all her billion dollar ideas, 696 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: you can follow her on Instagram at Real Real Julie. 697 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: Talk to you next week. Thanks for listening to this 698 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,279 Emily Tisch Sussman: episode of she Pivots. I hope you enjoyed it, and 699 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: if you did, leave us a rating and tell your 700 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: friends about us. To learn more about our guests, follow 701 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: us on Instagram at she pivots the Podcast, or sign 702 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: up for our newsletter where you can get exclusive behind 703 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:43,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: the scenes content on our website at she pivots thepodcast 704 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:51,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: dot com. This episode was produced and edited by Emily Atavelosik, 705 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: with sound editing and mixing from Nina Pollock. Audio production 706 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:59,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: and social media by Hannah Cousins, Research by Christine Dickinson 707 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: and legit Sticks, and planning by Emma Stopic and Kendall Krupkin. 708 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:05,799 Emily Tisch Sussman: She Pivots is proud to be a part of the 709 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:07,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: iHeart Podcast Network. 710 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,000 Julie Wainwright: I endorse she Pivots.