1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus on wildlife, 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: conserving both. Big shout out to ONEX Hunt for their 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: support of this podcast. I'm your host, Lake Pickle, and 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: if you remember when we last spoke, I said that 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: in this episode we would be learning about some life 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: altering conservation work. My friends, this is the kind of 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: wildlife conservation story that makes me want to stand up 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: and start cheering. This is the kind of story that 10 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: you'll want to tell your friends about. And believe me 11 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: when I say, if you have ever had the privilege 12 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: of hunting, hearing, or watching wild turkeys in the springtime, 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: which we are quickly approaching, I dare say this story 14 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: and conversation will send shills down your spine and make 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: you even more thankful for every turkey you hear, see, 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: or take. From here on out, let's get into it. 17 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: Yeah that's good. 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: Come on in, sir, Hey, how are you good morning? 19 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 1: I'm Lake. Nice to meet you, Lake, Yes, ma'am. Yeah, okay, 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: yes I can. It's early February and I've driven a 21 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: few hours north from my home in central Mississippi to 22 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: meet a man named mister Benny Herring to talk about 23 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: his involvement in one of the greatest wildlife conservation wins 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: in the country's history. 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 2: Oh, just now, what what do you need to do? 26 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 2: You want to just sit down and visit or how 27 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 2: do you want to do this? 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: I was, now, yes I do. Steve said, I need 29 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: to ask you about your turkey room. 30 00:01:55,200 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: This is my room. Yeah, that's fifty something years. 31 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: Of junk junk. 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I have been pretty fortunate. I've been able 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: to hunt a lot of places, and yes, been pretty 34 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 2: well about as blessed as you can be, as far 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: as being able to hunt and go with your wife, 36 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: being very supportive and had quite a career. And I've 37 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: just been fortunate. Yeah, I can tell you. 38 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: I followed mister Benny to his office in his house. 39 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: The room is lined all the way around with turkey beards, 40 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: various wildlife and hunting photos of him and his friends 41 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: taken from all around the country and other parts of 42 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: the world. I see pictures of buffalo hunting in Africa, 43 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: wingshooting in Argentina, along with deer, elk and antelope skulls, 44 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: and some of the longest turkey spurs. I have ever 45 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: laid eyes on. It became very clear to me that 46 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: this man has seen and done a lot lot quite 47 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: a collection of beards and spurs, and I've been lucky. 48 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 2: Of course. I've been hunting turkeys a long time, A 49 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 2: long time. 50 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, you got some long spurred turkeys. 51 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: Mike, Well, yes, I've got some pretty good ones they 52 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: olly my goodness. 53 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, thank you for doing this. 54 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: Well, you're welcome. I always try to bene fifty turkeys 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: best again, you know, work with them for years, and 56 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 2: when you're about it, you don't never really quit being one. 57 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: Can you this chair? 58 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: Yeah? Move it, do whatever you need to do. Just 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: you know, I'm following your lead. You just the way 60 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 2: you want to. 61 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: Mister Biddy possesses a rare quality. Truly, that's not blowing smoke. 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: The zeal And adoration for wildlife, and particularly the wild turkey, 63 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: was so evident in the first few minutes of meeting 64 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: this man. I was just so excited to set up 65 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: my podcast gear and get this interview under way. I 66 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: knew before the formal conversation even got started that this 67 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: man was going to have some incredible things to share 68 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: with all of us. And believe me, he did. 69 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: I started turkey hunting in nineteen seventy. Okay a Tyler County, 70 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: which is the county just south of Montgomery County, opened 71 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 2: their turkey season in nineteen seventy and my friend Won 72 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: O'Neill lived in Caraziesco. And he and another fella were 73 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: about the only two turkey hunted in Tyler County. And 74 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: I got invited down there to go turkey hunton. And 75 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: that was in nineteen seventy, the first time I ever 76 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 2: went turkey hunting in my life. 77 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: Did you had you heard of anyone doing it prior 78 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: to that? Was there anybody around that was turkey hunt not. 79 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 2: Here in this county. Now One O'Neill of course lived 80 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 2: at Carazisco. He had turkey hunted some in the southern 81 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: part of the state. And I did not know anybody 82 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: personally that turkey hunting. Now later on, of course, we 83 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: opened aparts from Montgomery County the following year and there 84 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: was about three of us here in the county that 85 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: turkey hunted. Yeah, it was just you know, things were 86 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: different then you could turkey hunt anywhere in the county 87 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 2: and never see another individual. Uh so about three of 88 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: us and that was about it, and of course it 89 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 2: changed as time went on. 90 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: I wish there was three turkey hunters in the county 91 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: I live in now. 92 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, well I understand it, I really do. 93 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: There's a few key things we can pull out from 94 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: this first little bit mister Benny has shared with us. 95 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: In that one short story, he made mention of several 96 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: things that demonstrate how different turkey hunting and turkey hunting 97 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: culture was back in nineteen seventy when he started Number one, 98 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: the county he started turkey hunting in opened their season 99 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy, as in turkey hunting wasn't allowed before then. 100 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: Think back once again to the Fanny Cook episode and 101 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: the Mississippi Game and Fish Commission being established in nineteen 102 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: thirty two. One of the first things that commission did 103 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: was start protecting game species that had been grossly over hunted, 104 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 1: turkey's being one of them. Mister Betty started hunting turkeys 105 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: right at the very beginning of some hunting starting to 106 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: be opened back up in a very limited manner. Number two, 107 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: did you hear him say that he was one of 108 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: three turkey hunters in the entire county and that he 109 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: didn't know of anyone not a soul that turkey hunting 110 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: in the county that he lived in at the time. 111 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: My friends, if that alone does not screen that we 112 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: are talking about an entirely different era. I don't know 113 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: what does These days in Mississippi you can throw a 114 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: rock and hit three turkey hunters. It's a different time. 115 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: But mister Benny was coming up in a crucial part 116 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: of turkey conservation history, and we're gonna fully dive into that, 117 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: but before we do, I want to hear the last 118 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: bit of this story so that we can really appreciate 119 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: how much this man loves wild turkeys. 120 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: That first year was fruitful, and of course after I 121 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: shot that first turkey, it was all over. 122 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: I should see you were able to call a turkey 123 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: in that first year? 124 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 2: Sure was? 125 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: What was that? Like? 126 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: Unbelievable? You know, nowadays, when you see a turkey approaching 127 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 2: in full strut and gobbling, you've probably done it a 128 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: good bit and you don't, I reckon, you kind of 129 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 2: take it for granted. But that first time, now, you 130 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 2: don't ever recover from that. If you really really love turkey, Yeah. 131 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: That's a good way to put it. You don't ever 132 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: recover and never recover. Mister Benny Herring loves wild turkeys. 133 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: That much is clear. So now let's get into the 134 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: meat of this conversation and learn about his work as 135 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: a wildlife biologist. How did you get into the biology 136 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: side of it? 137 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: Well, I graduated from Delfas State with a BS and biology, 138 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,239 Speaker 2: and I thought I might want to be a teacher, 139 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: but I soon found out that with a BS you 140 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: could hardly live on what you'd get paid as a teacher. 141 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: And at that time I heard about a wildlife school 142 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: at Mississippi State University, and I went over there and 143 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 2: applied and was accepted and got my master's degree in 144 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: wildlife in Mississippi State, and immediately went to work for 145 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: the Game and Fish and I spent thirty two years 146 00:08:54,679 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: there with him, and I had numerous probly that I 147 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 2: was involved in. I was involved in Morning the project 148 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 2: where we increased finally got to increase in the bag 149 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: limit UH. And then our turkey biologiest at that time 150 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: was named Champ Clark, and he was killed on one 151 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: of our wildlife managineers when he fell off of a 152 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 2: tractor and the disk ran over him. And I had 153 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: been working with Champ a good bed at that time, 154 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,359 Speaker 2: and uh, it just somehow another failed my lot to 155 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: start doing the turkeys restoration. And so for the next 156 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: ten years I was heavily involved in that, and we 157 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 2: trapped turkeys in numerous locations throughout the state. 158 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: As mentioned earlier, this was an important time in wild 159 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: turkey conservation history. You heard mister Benny just make reference 160 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: to trapping turkeys. This was a huge part of the 161 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: restoration process, trapping turkeys and then relocating them to where 162 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: there were none and then allowing them to repopulate. I 163 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: want to ask him more about this, and just the 164 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: heads up, you're going to hear him mention something called 165 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: cannon netting, also sometimes referred to as rocket netting. It's 166 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: a bird capturing technique used to safely catch large numbers 167 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: of birds, and it's carried out by using cannons to 168 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: fire a large net over the top of a group 169 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: of birds. How far along had turkey restoration been going 170 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:30,559 Speaker 1: on when you got put in that position? 171 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,239 Speaker 2: Of course, the restoration of the turkey and in Mississippi 172 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: and the Southeast really began in the late med the 173 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 2: late sixties when they realized that cannon netting, which was 174 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 2: used to trap waterfowl first could also be used to 175 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: trap wile turkeys for restoration, and that's when things begin 176 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: to really take off and improve. Up to then, you know, 177 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 2: they had been all kind of f it's made of 178 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: raising turkeys and releasing them, and of course it was ineffective, sure, 179 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: but when you took the wild turkeys and put them 180 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 2: into good habitat, they flourished real quick. 181 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: Yeah. 182 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: So it started in the late sixties and in the 183 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 2: in seventies up until the mid eighties. Yeah, it really well. 184 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 2: In fact, we repopulated the state of Mississippi. Yeah, yeah, 185 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: there it did. 186 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: That's why. Well, one you really were in at the 187 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: beginning of it then. 188 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: Right close to the star. 189 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's so you know, talking to folks that 190 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: hunt around the southeast. Now, I mean there's counties that 191 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: don't have a lot of turkeys, but I don't know 192 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: if there's any counties that don't have any. 193 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: I think I think I'm correct on this, and that 194 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: in Mississippi all are parts of the county has some 195 00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: type of turkey sea. 196 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: And hearing you know, hearing you and other folks talk 197 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: about these times were because there were counties back then 198 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: that didn't have turkeys, correct, none the different world. 199 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 2: Well see, at that time, of course, it wasn't just 200 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: you go catch turkeys and turn them loose. You had 201 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: to go through a process. You'd have a munch of 202 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: club of joining landowners that would get together and they 203 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: would request from the Game and Fish of a far 204 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: my wildlife to be put on the list to receive 205 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 2: a release of wild turkeys. And course when we got 206 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: their requests, of biologists went and evaluated the property to 207 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 2: be considered and back and then you know, we thought, okay, 208 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: if you got ten thousand acres under agreement, you can 209 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: provide good protection and the birds will do well. We 210 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: have since learned that it didn't have to be that large, okay, yeah, 211 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: but at that time we did right. And of course 212 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: at that time we didn't think that you could drivive 213 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 2: in pine plantations. See the turkeys that we were familiar 214 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: with were in good hardwood block September Man. 215 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: That's wild. Yeah, well, I mean, because I mean, just 216 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: thinking about today, it's like not i mean not a 217 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: mismanaged pine plantation, but a pine plantation that's taken care 218 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: of and you know, burned and such a turkey be 219 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: all in there, all in there, But back then they 220 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: all didn't know. That's right, different world. Yeah, absolutely, that's fascinating. 221 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, man. I cannot tell you just how much 222 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: I love these old school conservation stories, just thinking about 223 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: those men and women with little more than a love 224 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: for wild things and wild places and determination to figure 225 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: out how to keep that kind of stuff on this landscape. 226 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: Just those tiny little details like not knowing a turkey 227 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: could survive on a pine plantation. Heck, these days, a 228 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: turkey gobblin in the pines goes together like a worm 229 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: on a brim hook. But it does is because these 230 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: wildlife conservationists that came before us picked up the torch 231 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: and they figured it out. So let's learn how they 232 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 1: figured it out when y'all started canning that and how 233 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: did you figure how did you determine a location? I mean, 234 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm having to think that there was a 235 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: little bit of like, how do we even do this? 236 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: You know? 237 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, if like on Friest Point Refuge, you had 238 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: a fairly good population of birds there, so what we 239 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: would do? Wayne Shrider the main one, he was the 240 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: main trapper, and I helped him every all I could 241 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: of course, first thing he would look for was an 242 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 2: opening or a space big enough that you could fire 243 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: the net in. And it was about sixty B sixty, 244 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 2: but you could get along one of those roads or 245 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: junction of roads. And what we would do we would 246 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: prebate using wheat most of the time, and we would 247 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: string a bait line, probably a quarter mile each direction 248 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: down that road. And then you go to checking it, 249 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: see what kind of usage you're getting. And then when 250 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: they get at the main location and they're taking it, 251 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 2: cleaning it up every day, you sit you in it. 252 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: And when they come to feed the next time, you 253 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 2: catch them. 254 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, And what do you so you 255 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: get these turkeys in the net? How do you get 256 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: them and get them into a place where you could 257 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: transport them? 258 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: Okay, what you do prior to catching the turkeys? We 259 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: would buy a bunch of pasteboard boxes and we would 260 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: put them together, tape them together, and we'd cut a 261 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: flap in the bottom of that box that we could 262 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: stick the turkey in and then turn it upside down 263 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: with a flap down on the ground with a turkey 264 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 2: standing on it, and we would take them all out 265 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 2: of the net, put them in a box and then 266 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 2: we would load them in a truck. And most of 267 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: the time we would have people from the area that 268 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: the turkeys were going to station somewhere within two or 269 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 2: three miles of us, and we would either call them 270 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 2: to come to us or we'd carry the turkeys to them. 271 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: And we tried to and we didn't ever get it exact, 272 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: but we wanted to have ten hens and five goblers 273 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 2: per release sight. 274 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: Ah. 275 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: Sometimes we'd have more hens than that, sometimes less. Sometimes 276 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: we'd have more gobless and sometimes less. Sure and then 277 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 2: they would go and release the birds. And when they 278 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: release them, of course they'd take them out of that 279 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 2: truck that they were transported in, put them on the ground, 280 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 2: open all of the flaps, cut the tape at the 281 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: flaps and open them at the same time so all 282 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 2: the birds could go simultaneous. 283 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: Ah, Yes, they'd be together. 284 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And then we would do the best we could 285 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: monitor those birds. And under most circum stances it would 286 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: be five years and we would open short seasons. That's 287 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 2: how fast they would respond to good habitat. Yeah, yeah, man. 288 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, How did you monitor them well? 289 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: Of course, first off, if you consulted with the conservation 290 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 2: officer in that county, and he had contacts with the 291 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 2: clubs that had requested and they would keep records and 292 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 2: tell him when they saw poles and hens here, gobblers here. 293 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: And also we used county mail carriers, the local mail 294 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 2: carrier that he had a world of information. 295 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: Just seeing them. 296 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 2: Where did you see turkeys? How many did you see? 297 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: So you've put all of that together, and you assume 298 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 2: that you've had pretty good reproduction for four to five years, 299 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 2: and if you did, then you opened a short gobblers 300 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 2: only season. 301 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: What would the season look like sometimes when you open 302 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: the season up, what would you say? 303 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: Sometime it would be two weekends, sometimes short, fair short? Yeah, 304 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 2: always started off fair shot. Yeah, and if you know 305 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 2: you could if you had success and things went well, 306 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 2: then just like the rest of the state in the 307 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 2: deer season, turkey season and everything, you gradually increased. 308 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. What was the attitudes like if you know, in 309 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: an area where you've done one of these relocations, four 310 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: or five years later, y'all open up a short season 311 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: and folks get to go out and hunt these turkeys 312 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: a little bit. How were they just drilled? Thrilled? 313 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 2: Thrilled? 314 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: When mister Benny shared this part of the story with me. 315 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: I caught myself trying to get in the headspace of 316 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: one of those county residents that had watched or at 317 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: least known about turkey relocations and then after five years, 318 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: got to experience an actual spring turkey season. They were 319 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: watching wildlife conservation and restoration happen right in front of 320 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,719 Speaker 1: their eyes back then. And seriously, how cool would it 321 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: be to track down one of those mail carriers from 322 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: that time period and talk to them about their job 323 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: as an official turkey observer man. That is just too cool. Seriously, 324 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: if anyone out there has any connection to someone who 325 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: was a mail carrier at that time and help the 326 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 1: Game Commission back then, please let me know. I would 327 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: love to talk to them. Okay, so we have a 328 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: good idea about the actual process of how they caught 329 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: these turkeys and released them. But I now want to 330 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: move into what I believe is one of the most 331 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: important and also really cool parts of this story, and honestly, 332 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: enrolling the mail carrier's help is a good example of 333 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: the direction we're going now. The Game and Fish Commission 334 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: at the time was one small agency to be able 335 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: to carry out this turkey restoration at the statewide scale 336 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: that they wanted to, they would have to have help. 337 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: Like I've said before, I'm interested in the relationship that 338 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: we as humans have with our wildlife and the impacts 339 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: that we have never ceased to amaze me, and this 340 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 1: part of the story is worth highlighting. 341 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 2: Probably the premier place that we trapped turkeys was on 342 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: Friar's Point Refuge, which is in Kahoma County on the 343 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: river between the river and the levee. There's a family 344 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: over there that still own land over there, a name 345 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 2: of McKees, and mister and mus McKee set up about 346 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: four thousand acres as a refuge for us to trap 347 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: and transplant turkeys on. 348 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: Were these people so they own this land, yeah, and 349 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: they set it aside. They didn't hunt it at all. 350 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: Were they turkey hunters themselves? 351 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 352 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: What was their motive for? 353 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 2: I think that I never met mister McKee, but I 354 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 2: met Ms McKee later on, and they had such an 355 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: indust in the promotion of wildlife conservation in the state 356 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 2: of Mississippi. And at that time we called them game 357 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: warders back then, but there was a game warder who's 358 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: a conservation officer now by the name of Wayne Striter 359 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 2: that lived in Kahoma County, and he was very good 360 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 2: friends with the McKees. Yeah, and he was instrumental in 361 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 2: that refuse being set up. And he was also instrumental 362 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: and catching no telling how many turkeysh for restoration in 363 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 2: the state of Mississippi. Yeah, very few people ever heard 364 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: of Wayne Strid but he that's a name you should remember. 365 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 2: He was a real good conservation auser. He was a 366 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 2: better turkey trapper and I got to know him real 367 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 2: well and spent a lot of time with him trapping 368 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: and releasing turkeys. 369 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: I just think it's I mean, I knew from just 370 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: doing some research. I knew a good bit of the 371 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: trap and for relocation took place somewhere along the river. 372 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: I had no idea. It was some private landowners that 373 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: set it aside for y'all to do that. 374 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: Well, that was the main place. There were other places 375 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 2: like middle Point Home Club, Catfish Porn hung Club. They 376 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 2: allowed us to trap turkeys at various times for restoration, 377 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: and other private individuals around Columbia. Mister Bill Walker allowed 378 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 2: us to trap on his place. And it was just 379 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,640 Speaker 2: a lot of private people that knew that they had 380 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 2: good turkey populations, and they wanted to see them all 381 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 2: over the state. 382 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: So really it was a collective effort. 383 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: It was Oh, yes, man. 384 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: Yes, I love that. 385 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh it's it's great. 386 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna once again refer back to the Fanny Cook 387 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: episode to a quote that we pulled by out of 388 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: Leopold when he was talking about the wildlife challenges that 389 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: the state of Mississippi was up against. This is what 390 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: he wrote. There's one office to all of these defects, 391 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: a widespread and intense popular interest in game and hunting. 392 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: In this respect, Mississippi excels any other state so far 393 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: surveyed by me. Leephold then goes on to say in 394 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: so many words that leveraging this popularity of hunting by 395 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: using education at agencies was going to be the only 396 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: way to maintain a game supply in the state. And 397 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: we found out back in nineteen thirty two that they 398 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: were seeing very clear lines connecting hunters and conservationists as 399 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: the clear pathway to saving wildlife. Fast forward to the 400 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies. To win the Mississippi 401 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 1: Game and Fish Commission, individuals like Wayne Strider, Benny Herring, 402 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: and several private landowners such as the McKees who on 403 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 1: the river property, the hunting clubs such as Catfish Point, 404 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: Bill Walker down in Columbia, and several others that I 405 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: wish I could mention. And we're seeing this play out 406 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: in a real tangible way. If you've listened to this 407 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: podcast long enough, you know that we focus on the 408 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 1: impacts that we as humans have on wildlife, and we 409 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: all likely know that we can make some real negative impacts. 410 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: But my friends, if you don't remember anything else from 411 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: this episode, remember this. If we turn our efforts for 412 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: wildlife towards the good, the positive impacts that we can 413 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: make on wildlife and wildlife habitat are truly limitless. And 414 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: if you want further proof of that, let's keep listening 415 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: to mister Bennie. 416 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 2: I never will forget Lafayette County. You know that's where 417 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 2: Oxford's located. 418 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: Yes, sir, the. 419 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 2: Time we were doing restoration, Lafayette County had tremendous habitat. 420 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: We'll all northeast Mississippi had tremendous habitat, but no Turkish. 421 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 2: But at any rate, of course, Lafette County has a 422 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: lot of public land in it. To the National Forest, 423 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 2: and so we will begin to do some release not 424 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 2: only on national forest but on private land. And Harold 425 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 2: Aine Prestige was Cornstavation aust Up there at that time, 426 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 2: and he asked me one day, he said, Benny, you 427 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: think that'll ever mount anything. I said, well, Harold an, 428 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it will. It's been successful in other places, 429 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 2: and all you got to do is give them a 430 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: little protection. He says. Well, I can do the best 431 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: I can do. He says, but now the hunting clubs 432 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 2: are the landowners and the ones that's gonna give us 433 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 2: the real protection. I says. That's exactly right, and that's 434 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 2: your job to make sure that they understand it that 435 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 2: they are most important in this protection stage. So in 436 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 2: about five years he told me, he said, boy, you 437 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 2: were right this turkeys ever were up here. So yeah, yeah, 438 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 2: it responded that quick. 439 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, I love the I can't get 440 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: over how cool it was that the landowners and the 441 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: agency working so closely together. 442 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 2: Well, think of it like this, eighty percent of the 443 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 2: land Mississippi's private owned. So if we didn't have good 444 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: cooperation with the landowners concerning wildlife, we'd being a mess. Now. 445 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 2: You can do so much on public land, but when 446 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 2: you only have twenty percent in public land, that's not 447 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: going to cover the whole state. You've got to involve 448 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 2: private landowners. 449 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: At what point had you all been doing these restoration 450 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: efforts were did you or other people in the agency 451 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: start to be like, man, this is really gaining some 452 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: momentum statewide. 453 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 2: Probably probably within probably by seven nineteen seventy seven seventy eight. 454 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 2: We knew then that we had seen enough success releases 455 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,679 Speaker 2: that it was going to be successful statewide. The habitat 456 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: was there, provided a little bit of protection, and the 457 00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: turkeys will take care of the rest of it. 458 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: Imagine how cool it was for all involved when they 459 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: came to the realization that it was gonna work. I mean, 460 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: really think about it. They had been on a mission 461 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: to restore wild turkeys since the nineteen thirties and now 462 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: it's all coming to fruition. What was it like from you, 463 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: just as a turkey hunter as you were doing this 464 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: to start seeing, you know, going out I'm assuming that 465 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: as the years went on, you were going out and 466 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: hearing more turkeys, seeing more turkeys. 467 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: Best failing in the world, you know, it's just amazing. 468 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 2: Of course, I began to expand my area of hunting, 469 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: sure Tyler County, Carroll County, Montgomery County. We'd go to 470 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 2: South Mississippi hunting, and we'd go to Georgia, and we'd 471 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 2: go to New Mexico. And it's a tremendous failing to 472 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 2: know that you were involved in it in your home state, 473 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 2: but you also saw the same thing happening in numerous 474 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: other states right all over the United States. You can 475 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: go turkey in. 476 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, did you have contact with any of the other 477 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: biologists well the states? 478 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 2: And yeah, we had, of course at that time. The 479 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 2: National Wild Turkey Federation was formed seventy one, I believed 480 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 2: when the first meeting was held, and you went and 481 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 2: to a conference in every state in the southeast and 482 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: other parts of the country had biologists there, and you 483 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 2: rolled ideas off of one another, and you got made contacts, 484 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 2: and then you got well, you know, I believe I 485 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 2: want to go to hunt the real Grand. So you 486 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 2: called your buddy that worked for the Texas Parks and 487 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 2: Wildlife says, I chold like to come out there and 488 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 2: hunt real grand Can you help me out. Most of 489 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: the time, he'd give you a contact. 490 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 491 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: So, yeah, and it just I got you know, I went, 492 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: didn't still go to Florida once a year? Oh de 493 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 2: Yeah that's great. Yeah, and so I need Florida, Georgia. 494 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: I've killed well, I hadn't been goos are oscolated? You know, 495 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 2: I've gotten to the age that travel is pretty hard 496 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 2: to do right now. Look, I've killed I don't know 497 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 2: how many slams you Yeah, sure, yeah, sure, Florida's Eastern 498 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: real men and the Merriams. Yeah. 499 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: I just love how genuinely mister Benny answers these questions. 500 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: It leaves no doubt about how he feels about this subject. 501 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: He also pointed out a very important part of this 502 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: story when he makes mention of the types of turkey 503 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: restoration efforts and results happening all across the country. I 504 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: know that we're highlighting Mississippi here, but that's just because 505 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: I'm close to this story. Similar things were happening all over. 506 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: The conservation history of the wild turkey in the United 507 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: States is one of the best wildlife wins we as 508 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: a hunting and conservation community have to hang our hats on, 509 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: Which brings me to one of our final points with 510 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: mister Benny that we just can't go without talking about. 511 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: We were talking early on about you know, you knew 512 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: of three other turkey hunters in a county. From your 513 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: point of view, how did you see the hunting community change? 514 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: I mean because just from then till now, I mean, 515 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: I feel like everybody's a turkey hunter now. 516 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 2: I did not anticipate such a rapid explosion in the 517 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 2: turkey hunter numbers. I did not. I don't know why 518 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 2: I didn't, because it was so good to me and 519 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: the two or three other people that hunted them. If 520 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 2: it was so good to us, why didn't we think 521 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 2: it'd be that good to everybody else. But as time grew, 522 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: you know, you begin to see more people, more people going, 523 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: more people here. You'd go to somewhere you'd never seen 524 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: a turkey hunting, there'd be a truck sitting there, and 525 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 2: it just exploded. Yeah, right along with the turkey population, 526 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 2: which is really a good thing, even though it may 527 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 2: be aggravating to us at times. You know, as long 528 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 2: as you've got people interested in something like turkey hunting, 529 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: they gonna support it and do what it takes to 530 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 2: make sure they just there. 531 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I couldn't agree more now, because I know today 532 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: a lot of things. A topic that you hear come 533 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: up today is you know, people talk about overcrowding or 534 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: too many hunters, and I'm like, man, like you said, 535 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: I know it can be frustrating, but yeah, if you 536 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: got hunters, you. 537 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 2: Got turkeys every time. Every time, they'll support the programs 538 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: to make sure that they're there. 539 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: Look, I know the feeling all too well of a 540 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: hunting spot getting crowded or pulling up to a gate 541 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: and seeing a truck parked where you've never seen one before, 542 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: and I would never deny that that could be frustrating. 543 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: It is, but sometimes it is important for all of 544 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: us to keep things in perspective. I'm going to quote 545 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: mister Benny directly here. As long as you have people 546 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: interested in something like turkey hunting, going to do what 547 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: it takes to make sure that it's there. While turkey's 548 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: are proof of that, the attempt at public land sell 549 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: from last summer is proof of that, and there's a 550 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: whole lot more proof of that in our country. Thankfully. 551 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: I want to round this episode off by getting mister 552 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: Benny to share with us a good old fashioned turkey 553 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: hunting story, one that means something to him, one that 554 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: involves his friend Wendell Neil that introduced him to turkey 555 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: hunting back in nineteen seventy. Originally I told Clay I 556 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: would give him this story to use on a bear 557 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 1: Grease turkey story episode. But then I like the story 558 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: so much I decided to keep it for Backwards University. Sorry, Clay, 559 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: you've been coppled. That's an inside joke. If you listened 560 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: to the render about the CBS special with Ted Copple, 561 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. 562 00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: Well, I've been fortunate. I've herst it a lot of turkey. 563 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: I can tell. 564 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 2: That a lot of turkey has been hunting them a 565 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 2: long time. But of course the first one always stands 566 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 2: out sure without it, you know, you know that for anybody. 567 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: I can't imagine how the first one is not paramapple. 568 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 2: But along the way you develop some special ones. Yes, 569 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: and my special one, the most special after my first one, 570 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 2: was my friend Wendell O'Neill. He's been turkey hunting. It 571 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 2: killed a lot of turkeys, and he began to have 572 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:42,719 Speaker 2: health problems and he lost his hearing, and he could 573 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 2: if he was close enough to a turkey. He could 574 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: hear it, but he could not course it no way. 575 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 2: So the last turkey that he hearsted, he went with 576 00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 2: me right here in Montgomery County, and we heard the 577 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 2: turkey gobble and the big black swam. We went off 578 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: of a ridge. He was roosted over a beaver pond. 579 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: We got situated and I pointed and told Wonder where 580 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 2: the bird was, and he'd been again to call, and 581 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 2: shortly the bird flew down to him and he killed him. Well, 582 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 2: that ain't the end of the story. That was as 583 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: good as he gets right there. Yeah, But we picked 584 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 2: that turkey up, and you know how you do when 585 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 2: you look at him and admire all of the colors, 586 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 2: and fan his tail out and look at his wings 587 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: and look at the beard, looked at the spur. He 588 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,320 Speaker 2: picked him up and we started back upon that ridge. 589 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: And when we crested that ridge, he looked down on 590 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: the ground and there was a perfect araw head lived there. 591 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: Wow. 592 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 2: And he picked that air head up. And he course 593 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 2: had a good friend that was a paleontologist archaeologist, I'm sorry, 594 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 2: and uh, he kid it to him and it was 595 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 2: what was called a Clovis point, which meant that it 596 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 2: came close New Mexico said it had been traded amongst 597 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 2: tribes and he had that made into a necklace. And 598 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 2: every time I saw him and he had that on, 599 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 2: it clicked on me that that was about it special 600 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 2: of turkey hunts. You now, yeah, that's so cool. That 601 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 2: was great. 602 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, mister Benny, if you only knew how excited 603 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: Clay Newcombe is going to be when he hears your 604 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: friend picked up a Clovis point after a successful turkey hunt. 605 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: You do you know where that necklace is? 606 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 2: Now, here's what a still has it. 607 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: That's cool. Yeah, that's really special. 608 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 609 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: Some of the I think, man, I mean some of 610 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: the closest friendships I got were formed over a goblin turkey. 611 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 2: Sure, I understand that completely. 612 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I mean there's just like experiences that you 613 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: get out there in the spring chase those birds that 614 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: you just. 615 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 2: You don't get anywhere else. No, yeah, you know. 616 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: And I just think, man, speaking just I guess personally 617 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 1: with you, I think about why doing these episodes are 618 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: so important to me, is it's it's easy. I mean 619 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: you talked earlier about you know, if you've seen a 620 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: turkey come in and you've hunted a long time, you 621 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: can start, you know, even if you don't mean to, 622 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,320 Speaker 1: you can start to kind of take it for granted, 623 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: right right. And so I think about the younger generations 624 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: of hunters coming up, even folks my age are a 625 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 1: little bit older. You know, we have it so good. 626 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 2: Right now, as good as you. 627 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: We have it so good right now. 628 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 2: Well, that's pretty easy to take things for granted when 629 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 2: they're good. 630 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: I know, And it's it's it's just important for me 631 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 1: to try to tell the story of what happened and 632 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: what the work that you and so many others did 633 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 1: to put these turkeys on this landscape to where we 634 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: can go enjoy them and make these. 635 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 2: You know, thanks to me. Realize, I don't know why 636 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 2: I was lucky enough to fall in that gap where 637 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 2: I was involved in it, but it you know, I 638 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 2: couldn't have had a better life. 639 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: Yeah see, you loved what you did. 640 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 2: Ooh with a passion. Yeah. Wayne's trying to would call 641 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 2: me and I was living right here and he was 642 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 2: living at Bringer Laura and call the county and he said, well, 643 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 2: I got something. I think we ready to catch Benny, 644 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 2: he says, But now we're gonna have to get there 645 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 2: pretty early. I said, Wayne, you tell me what time, 646 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 2: be your wife. It didn't make any difference. That was 647 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 2: not an. 648 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:39,880 Speaker 1: Option you wanted to go. 649 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 2: I was gonna be there. Yeah, And consequently we developed 650 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 2: a strong friendship because I was as dedicated as Wayne was. Yeah, 651 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:49,919 Speaker 2: and he soon realized it. 652 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: You still you still? I mean you told me you 653 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: still go to Florida every year. I'm assuming you still 654 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: hunt them pretty much a lot around here. 655 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 2: Oh yes, just most of the time. If the water 656 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 2: is favorable, I'll go somewhere. Sometimes I hear a turkeys, 657 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 2: now I want every time. Sure, So if I don't 658 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: have one, I go back to the house and you know, 659 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: if getting the work in the garden, do the yard 660 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 2: work or whatever. But if the sun comes up the 661 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 2: next morning, I'm somewhere listening. 662 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: It can't help it. No this spring, whether it's your 663 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: fiftieth turkey season or your first turkey season, my advice 664 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: to you would be this, just be thankful. Thankful for 665 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,839 Speaker 1: the bird, thankful for the habitat that they live in, 666 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: and me personally, every time every time I hear a 667 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: turkey goble this spring, I'm gonna think about the people 668 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,360 Speaker 1: that paved the way for folks like you and me 669 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: to be out there enjoying such an incredible resource. The 670 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: Fanny Cooks of the world, Fox Hayes, Colonel Tom Kelly, 671 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: Wayne Strider, Benny Herring. We owe all of them our gratitude, 672 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: we really do. And keep that in mind going forward 673 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: and think about what you can do to help the 674 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,880 Speaker 1: generations of turkey hunters coming behind you. It's so important. 675 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: I want to thank all of you for listening to 676 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: Backwoods University as well as Bear Grease in this Country Life. 677 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,399 Speaker 1: If you like this episode, share it with someone this 678 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: week that you know is fired up to hear a 679 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: turkey gobble this spring, and stick around because if this 680 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,840 Speaker 1: podcast was a turkey hunt, We're set up about one 681 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty yards from one gobbling on the limb, 682 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: but it sounds like he is covered up in hens. 683 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: We're just getting started. There's a whole lot more on 684 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: the way.