1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and today we're talking about girls in 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: gangs as well as all girl gangs. And this idea 5 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: first popped into my head when we were searching for 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: our episode on Daddy's Girls, and particularly looking at the 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: nineteen forties and fifties when juvenile delinquency and teen female 8 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: sexuality was really freaking a lot of adults out in 9 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: America and gang participation was part of that. That was 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: kind of the first time that girl involvement in gangs 11 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: really started to come to the forefront of our national attention. 12 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: And as we'll talk about in more detail, lots of 13 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: movie these about those teams that adults were afraid of. 14 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: What better way to exercise your societal fears than through 15 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: pop culture exactly and terrible B movies, that's right, maybe 16 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: even some C or D movies. But we have to 17 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: start by looking at some numbers from today, and this 18 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: is coming from the National Gang Center, who reported that 19 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: from female gang participation stayed pretty even at just under 20 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: ten percent female, but there was a huge jump reported 21 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,119 Speaker 1: in by the U s Department of Justice, which said 22 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: in a report that girls were making up twenty to 23 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: forty six percent of youth gang membership, which is a 24 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: pretty well, it's not only a pretty big jump, but 25 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: it's also a pretty significant like window. Yeah, and that 26 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: wide window, and also the question of whether that is 27 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: a jump brings up an issue that comes up a 28 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: lot when you start research reaching girls involvements in gangs, 29 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: because historically there has been really really poor and sometimes 30 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: just non existent data collection going on, because a lot 31 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: of law enforcement agencies have completely overlooked female involvement in 32 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: gangs because there has been this long standing idea that 33 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: if a girl is in any way associated with a gang, 34 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: she's just an accessory. She might just be a girl friend, 35 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: she might just be really just a sex object for 36 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: the gang. She's not really doing any of the actual 37 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: gang activity. So it's only been in really recent years 38 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 1: that more law enforcement agencies and obviously the Department of 39 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: Justice are starting to pay closer attention. So that jump 40 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: could be a reflection of them actually just starting to 41 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: pay attention. Yeah, Because I mean this definitely isn't a 42 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: new development. I mean, for hundreds of years, people have 43 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: just looked at women or girls and thought, there's no 44 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: way that you have chosen a life of crime, of 45 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: serious crime. You're probably just some sort of hanger on 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: who does like the carrying of weapons or the delivery 47 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: of items that are stolen or drugs or whatever. You're 48 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: just a drug mule. You're a girl. Come on. But 49 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: there is one pattern that when it comes to all 50 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: girl gangs that seems to be pretty consistent and jumped 51 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: out to me, which is that you see them more 52 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: often girl gangs and just girl involvement in gangs in 53 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: smaller cities and towns. Um. This is going back to 54 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: that data from the National Gang Center. They found that 55 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: nearly half of gangs outside larger cities are reported to 56 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: have female gang members, compared with around one and four 57 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: in larger cities. Again, the question is what's going on 58 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: with data collection here, But I noticed that in a 59 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: number of the sources that we read talking about how 60 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: it's usually in smaller cities and towns where girls tend 61 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: to join up with gangs or start their own gangs 62 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: more often. Yeah, and I do wonder if that has 63 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: to do with just available resources, available activities for kids 64 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: who are in school who are school age. Um, if 65 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: that's just part of that whole trend, yeah, I would 66 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: definitely think so. But yeah, as far as trends go, 67 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: and I did mention, you know, gangs hundreds of years ago. 68 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: Let's let's travel back into girl gang history. So one 69 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: good thing to keep in mind as we go through 70 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: this history of gangs, in particularly girls and gangs, is 71 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: that the factors fueling gang formation and gang involvement have 72 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: remained largely constant for the past century plus, specifically factors 73 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: of poverty and economic marginality and domestic instability. Right, And 74 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,920 Speaker 1: so I mean this makes sense, This makes total sense 75 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: that this is a trend or these are trends that 76 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: you would see over the past several hundred years that 77 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: have remained constant because young people who don't have re 78 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 1: sources at their disposal, maybe don't have a stable, safe 79 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: home environment, are more likely to go out in search 80 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: of that stability or just in search of plain things 81 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, And so this brings us to the 82 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: eighteen seventies in Britain where we have the emergence of 83 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 1: the all female forty Elephants sometimes called the forty Thieves gang, 84 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: which was first mentioned in newspapers in eighteen seventy three. 85 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: And these ladies, these elephants. So it was a slick operation, 86 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: this was not. This was in contrast too to these 87 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: all male gangs running around the same time doing lots 88 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: of smash and grab jobs. These women kept a pretty 89 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: low profile. Yeah, and they really took advantage of the 90 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: fashion of the day in order to swipe all of 91 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: their jewelry and whatnot. Uh. They wore specially tailored coats, 92 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: commer buns, muff skirts, bloomers, and hats, all with hidden 93 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: pockets where they could stuff things in. And so while 94 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: it might have been unfortunate as a woman of the 95 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: day to have to like wear your petticoes, where are 96 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: your big bustle where all this stuff, it was great 97 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: for hiding diamond rings well. And it also makes sense 98 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: that that's happening at this time as we start to 99 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: see the emergence of this consumer culture where you're going 100 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: out more often to go and buy goods, going to bazaars, 101 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: going and gazing at the things in the store windows. 102 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: And the woman who really took advantage of this, the 103 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: leader of this gang for a time was one any 104 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: Diamond described in the Guardian newspaper as the cleverest of thieves. 105 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: And in addition to being a clever thief, it was 106 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: also just easier for young women to go through the 107 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: stores and snatch up all sorts of things and hide 108 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: them in there, especially tailored muffs and bloomers, because shopkeepers 109 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: weren't assuming that, okay, we should watch out for these girls, because, 110 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: like you said, Caroline, people tend to not associate intentional 111 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 1: criminality with women. This goes back to our episode on kleptomania, right, 112 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: But of course shopkeepers did eventually wise up to the 113 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: fact that all of these women were just spiriting away 114 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: all sorts of fancy, shiny objects into those hidden pockets 115 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: in their clothes. Um. And so we were reading one 116 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: source that was talking about shopkeepers who would see these 117 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,239 Speaker 1: women coming and would just immediately like shutter the shop 118 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: or keep them out. But the police, who were starting 119 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: to wise up too and realizing, oh, these women might 120 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: be up to something, they would show up at certain 121 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: houses of certain thieves, but the women would have totally 122 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: cooked the books and basically presented the equivalent of receipts 123 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: for everything, like oh, no, I I got all this 124 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: furniture or these weapons or these you know, diamond rings, 125 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: totally legit. Yeah, and as we get into the nineteen twenties, 126 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: because the forty Elephants lasted through the nineteen fifties in Britain. 127 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: But once you get into you been nineteen twenties, it 128 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: starts to take on an air of the blingering, which 129 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with it, it was this small 130 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: group of teenagers in l A who are actually from 131 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: wealthy backgrounds, who broke into celebrities houses, including Paris Hulton 132 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: and Lindsay Lohan, to steal all their things so that 133 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: they could feel closer to the celebrities. And The Guardian 134 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: reported that quote, their lifestyles were in pursuit of those 135 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: glamorous movie stars, combined with a decadent living of nineteen 136 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: twenties aristocratic flapper society. And apparently they threw fabulous parties, 137 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: which now makes it sound like I'm really glorifying this 138 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: female gang culture. But yeah, but this is another I mean, 139 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: speaking of trends that have been around forever in terms 140 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: of gang culture and women in gangs and young girls 141 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: and gangs, I mean, this is just another thing. The 142 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: desire to emulate the rich and wealthy, and you know 143 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: the life of leisure that you see around you wanting 144 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: to emulate that, and I mean that's something you see 145 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: today too. I mean, there are so many reasons for 146 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: people and young girls in particular to join gangs, but 147 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: one of the constants is just wanting stuff, wanting cool stuff. Well, 148 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: and that relates back to that issue of economic marginality. 149 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: Um So if we go to the US, though, in Frederick, 150 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: Milton Thrasher publishes the seminal book on early gang participation 151 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: called the Gang, a Study of one thousand, three thirteen 152 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: Gangs in Chicago. And what's fascinating about this book, and 153 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: it is huge, is that girls in gangs or associated 154 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: with gangs get only a passing mention. Right. Basically, he 155 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: explains girl gangs being quote unquote exceedingly rare by saying 156 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: that girls lack the gang instinct while boys have it. 157 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: And he attributes this to social patterns of behavior. Girl 158 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: just don't do that. In addition to well, girls are 159 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: just better supervised. They're kept closer to the home. But 160 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: there was one passage where he at least acknowledged that 161 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: girls do participate with gangs sometimes, although quote gangs composed 162 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,199 Speaker 1: entirely of girls are very rare, and he cites one 163 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: quote unquote bandit queen nicknamed Honey, who apparently had become 164 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: known in newspapers, and he writes it is alleged that 165 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: her gang has engaged in numerous robberies and that she 166 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: was accustomed to threaten them with a gun if they 167 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: got yellam so, I mean you go, Honey. I don't know. 168 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 1: I don't want to pistol whip by Honey. Staying away 169 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: from that bandit queen just yeah, keep on her good side. 170 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: But um so, when we move into the nineteen forties 171 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: and fifties, during the war and the post war period 172 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: in the United States, there was a reported rise of 173 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: all girl gangs in New York City and in Detroit, 174 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: but they tended to us the female extensions of all 175 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: male gangs, not necessarily going out and doing their own thing, 176 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: but working alongside all male gangs, and they would do 177 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: things like conceal weapons for them, run errands, even spy 178 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: on some rival gangs. And that's a similar role that 179 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: girls and gangs are still associated with, just being accessories 180 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: to the male gang activities. But there was one example 181 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: of one of these all girl gangs that was a 182 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: version of an all guy gang in Detroit at the 183 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: time called the Shakerrets, and they were an offshoot of 184 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: the Shakers. And in the book Girls, Gangs, Women and Drugs, 185 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: there was a quote from a former Shaker at and 186 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: she said girls were the sister gang without the boys. 187 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: There wasn't anything. Does that name? Those strike you as 188 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: just like a doo wop group from the fifties or sixties. 189 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: I think of the Shakers, the religious Shakers that I 190 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: thought of that make all those neat crafts I know 191 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: when I really want, Okay, So yeah, when I first 192 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: read this bullet I was like, wait, a girl version 193 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: of the Shaker I guess there's sort of like a 194 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: religious gang, you could say, you could say, one could say, 195 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: but we do have to briefly mention over in Britain 196 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, probably at Caroline. I don't want 197 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: to speak for you, but but it was this This 198 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: was my favorite girl gang in quotes, because they really 199 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: weren't so much about criminality. But we have to mention 200 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: them because they were kind of great. Yeah, the teddy girls. 201 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: I thought they were super awesome. I mean, maybe people 202 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: at the time. Well, definitely people at the time did 203 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: not think they were so awesome. But I mean this 204 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: is this is back to that whole emergence of teen 205 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: culture and essentially teenagers. These teenagers in particular, um fulfilling 206 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: every grown ups worst fear about what young people were doing. Basically, 207 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily all engaged in horrible criminal activity. Certainly 208 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: there was an element of criminal activity, but it was 209 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: mostly associated with the boys, while whereas the girls were 210 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: just wearing these fabulous clothes and sort of accompanying them 211 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: on the on their jaunts through the streets. Yeah, they 212 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: were the lady friends, the lady compatriots of the teddy boys. 213 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: And a lot of these kids were from and around London, 214 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,599 Speaker 1: in working class neighborhoods. And it's notable that this is 215 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: happening after World War Two, meaning that these kids grew 216 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: up in an era of rationing. They did not have 217 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: much and it's fascinating that a lot of their identity 218 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: was in the fashion that they wore, which that's still 219 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: something that we see today in gangs obviously, but the 220 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: Teddy boys would wear these dandy suits almost and I 221 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: mean that literally, like like dandy's um wearing these Edwardian 222 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: fashions that briefly came into vogue on Savo Row. But 223 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: then as soon as the teddy boys started wearing them, 224 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: they're like, oh no. And the teddy girls were similarly 225 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: like high style outfits with these hats and their hair 226 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: would be done up and they'd be wearing high necked blouses. 227 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,839 Speaker 1: I mean, they looked like very serious young women. Yeah, 228 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: but I love they had their what we would call 229 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: boyfriend jeans. Now they had their boyfriend jeans on that 230 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: were rolled up with their cigarette and their failures. They 231 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: smoked cigarettes for sure. And like you said, the teddy 232 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: girls were more about fashion than rough housing because even 233 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: at that time, the girls roles were still focused around 234 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: the home. They probably weren't allowed so much to go 235 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: out and run around the streets. But I love it. 236 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: And some of the things we were reading about teddy 237 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: girls and teddy boys. There was a picture of a 238 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: sign that said no one with Edwardian dress will be admitted, 239 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: And I just that that made me laugh, because yes, 240 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: there were While there were some members of this group 241 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: of people who were committing crimes of some sort, for 242 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 1: the most part they were just kind of scary teenagers, 243 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: which is really no different than when we see in 244 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies people posting signs like hippies use 245 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: the back door, no hippies allowed out. Well, wasn't this 246 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: described as the first teen subculture in British history? So 247 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: of course parents were freaked out. Um and as a 248 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: reflection of just how freaked out adults were. Let's talk 249 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: for a minute about pop culture, because it is in 250 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, like we mentioned earlier, that you start 251 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: to have this girl gang film genre emerged that totally 252 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: reflected the cultural panic about girls and gang sexuality, juvenile delinquency, etcetera, etcetera. 253 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: And this is a quote from one of our sources 254 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: from the Daddy's Girl episode. It said from one to 255 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five, girls had better access to schools with 256 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: almost universal compulsory secondary education, new social freedoms, cultural prominence, 257 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: commercial influence, and a place in the nation's vision of 258 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: its future. In other words, girls were suddenly teenagers. But 259 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: not all those teenage girls wanted to just go to 260 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: a stock hop, hang out at the at the soda shop. 261 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: Some girls wanted to hang out with fast boys and 262 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: running fast, cause and we're matching jackets. That's right, like 263 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: the high School Hellcats in nine that was apparently based 264 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: on an actual all girls shoplifting gang in Florida, of 265 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: all places. And in the movie the high School Hellcats 266 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,760 Speaker 1: or these jackets with tiger faces, was a tiger or cougar, 267 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: some kind of vicious cats. Me, it just looked like 268 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: a pink cat with some long things. Okay, so they 269 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: with the pink panther. I'm sure it was vicious at 270 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: the time, a vicious pink panther, possibly a main coon 271 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: based on the back. Who's to say that just said 272 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: man eaters. So, ladies, I would wear that jacket, ladies. Yeah, 273 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: if you're looking for a group Halloween costume, I'm just 274 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: saying high school Hellcats, give it a look. Well, and 275 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: we can't forget Paula, who was the protagonist in the 276 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: movie The Violent Years, who not only becomes pregnant but 277 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: is jailed from murder dies in childbirth. But before she dies, 278 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: she says, so what, oh, Paula. Well, and all this 279 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: happened right because Paula got swept up in a girl gang, 280 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: not to be confused with the nineteen fifties movie titled 281 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: girl gang. Right, But when we moved into the nineteen sixties, 282 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: girl gang movies become more about biker girl gangs. So 283 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: you have the mini skirt mob and she devils on wheels, 284 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: and also the hell cats. Lots of hell cats happening 285 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: at this time. Women associated with felines. Yeah, And and 286 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: the formula for all of these movies and still for 287 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: movies about girl gangs, whether their actual gangs or clicks today, 288 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: the gangs are always led by an alpha female, very sexual, 289 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 1: super sexual, and she's like, honey, the you know, the 290 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: bandit who will pistol whip you if you cross her. 291 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: Queen bandit. Well, and also something to note about the 292 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: sort of the shift as we get into the sixties 293 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: and seventies is that those biker girl gang movies in 294 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties were really sort of indulging in the 295 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: fantasy about bad girls and about all the danger they 296 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,640 Speaker 1: found themselves in, as opposed to the movies in the fifties, 297 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 1: which were more moralistic trying to impart a lesson like, hey, parents, 298 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: don't let your kids do this. This is awful, it's 299 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: a life of crime. Don't get pregnant. Don't get pregnant. 300 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: Let your daughters wear lipstick. That's also a reference to 301 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 1: our Daddy's Girl episode. But it's interesting to see that 302 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: it goes from being a total societal panic moment into like, oh, 303 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of cool. You know, it's cool hell cats, 304 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: hell cats on motorcycles. Um. But then things start to 305 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: get more violent, which is also reflective of what is 306 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: happening in the real world in terms of female gang participation. 307 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies, girl gang movies switch to switch 308 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: well switch blade, and then it's more about switch blade gangs, 309 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: so you have movies titled switch Blade Sisters and the 310 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: Dagger Debs Watch Out for those women. Yeah, and the Warriors, which, 311 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: although it focused a lot on mail gangs, it did 312 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: feature a girl gang by the name of the Lizzies, 313 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: which I just picture a bunch of Lizzie McGuire's honestly, 314 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: well and with dag or devs. I'm just thinking about women, know, 315 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 1: these debutantes pulling switchblades out of their dresses. So I 316 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: was picturing little Debbie snack cakes with knives in them. 317 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: It's like a prison snack. Then once we get in 318 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, the girl gangs and the movies about 319 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: them really just evolved into movies about high school and clicks. 320 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: So from the eighties into the two thousand's you have 321 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: movies like Heathers, Jawbreaker, and of course of course Mean Girls. 322 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: One thing I was wondering about that what do you 323 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: think that says? Because we've had all these movies, we've 324 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: seen the evolution of um basically societal fears and anxieties 325 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: reflected in these film trends. But all of a sudden 326 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: we go from featuring women who are riding motorcycles and 327 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: pulling switchblades on each other to just girls being super 328 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: me into each other in the halls of high school. Well, 329 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: if you think about I've actually never seen Jawbreaker, but 330 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: I've seen Heather's, which is fantastic, and Mean Girls, which 331 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,919 Speaker 1: I mean, come on, it's great, and a lot of 332 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: those have to do. And I think Jawbreaker does this 333 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: as well, where it's like the it focuses on girls, 334 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: not just not just girls being mean for meinstake, but 335 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: there's usually this socioeconomic hierarchy in it as well. It's 336 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: very consumery. The girls always have new clothes, new cars, 337 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: hot boyfriends. I don't know to me. And it makes 338 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: sense that it starts happening in the nineteen eighties where 339 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: you have a bit of an economic boom when people 340 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: are very, very interested in their stuff, the accumulation of stuff. 341 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: So I think it's more about just our changing values. 342 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: Maybe just like total and complete focus on on acquiring goods. Yeah, 343 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: Gordon getko, greed is good exactly. Yeah. Well, ins we 344 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: have another evolution because we get criminal girl gangs, not 345 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: just the heathers or the mean girls clicks. We get 346 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: young girls, maybe they're in high school, maybe not committing 347 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: these crimes. And that shows up in movies like Spring 348 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: Breakers and The Bling Ring, which Kristen cited earlier in 349 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: relation to basically like why did women want to steal 350 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: all this stuff to begin with? Yeah, and that's a 351 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: huge reflection now of the shift to wanting, like the 352 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: hyper celebrity culture, of wanting to emulate those lifestyles by 353 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: stealing their things if you're members of the Bling Ring. 354 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 1: And we should have scided earlier that this is from 355 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: a really great post over at bitch Flicks, which is 356 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: a great site about all about women and movies and film, 357 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: and this is just another way of saying movies, so 358 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: you should check it out. But when we come back 359 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: from a quick break, we're going to get out of 360 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: the movie theater and into the real world, Caroline. No 361 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: more jokes about the Lizzies and or the hell cap 362 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: or the little Debbie stick pigs with switch blades. We 363 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: got to talk about the rise of girls and gangs 364 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: in the real world because this is a serious problem 365 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: and a growing problem, or at least a growing issue 366 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: that law enforcement agencies are finally paying attention to. So 367 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that when we come right back, Caroline, 368 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: I work up quite an appetite podcasting, which is why 369 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: we rely on snacks, and so we are here to 370 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: bring you some fantastic information about free snacks from nature 371 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: box dot com. And we're just not talking about any 372 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: old snacks. We're talking about delicious snacks with zero artificial flavors, colors, 373 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: or sweeteners, zero grams of trans fats, and no high 374 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: fructose corn syrup. You'll even find snacks with no added 375 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: sugar and without gluten ingredients. 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To start your free trial, go to nature 386 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 1: box dot com slash mom stuff, Stay full, stay strong, 387 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: do what we do, and start snacking smarter. Head on 388 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: over to nature box dot com slash mom stuff to 389 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: get a free trial box of delicious snacks today. So 390 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: before the break, we were talking about basically uh girl 391 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: gangs being reflected in pop culture and societal anxieties showing 392 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: up in the movie theater. But we have to move 393 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: now to talk about real life girls in real life 394 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: gangs and what that means kind of for our society 395 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: at large. And it's interesting to note that in the 396 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, which is when we see those movies shift 397 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: from focusing on violent women too just kind of clicky 398 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: mean girls in high school. This is when law enforcement 399 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: really finally starts paying attention to the fact that, hey, 400 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 1: there are girls in gangs and they're participating, they are 401 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: not just hangers on, and that participation might have to 402 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:28,639 Speaker 1: do with girls being elevated to more integral positions in 403 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: gangs no thanks to the influx of things like crack 404 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: cocaine in gang ridden neighborhoods. And so this is when 405 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: the police finally start realizing that, Okay, it's no longer 406 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: just about sex, because again, that's something that you'll see 407 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: in pretty much any paper that you read about girls 408 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: in gangs is a girls and gangs are just sex objects. 409 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: Sex objects are tomboys. Um. So, once you have the 410 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: massive influence of drugs and the drug trade come into gangs, 411 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: that gets a lot more money involved and a lot 412 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: more trafficking of goods and money and guns and all 413 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: this stuff. So these girls involvement really steps it up 414 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: a notch, right. And you know, we noted at the 415 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: top of the podcast that there are data collecting issues 416 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: and have been for a long time, because researchers typically 417 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: have either just talked to male members of gangs about 418 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: girls participation or it's just sort of taking law enforcement reports, 419 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: you know, maybe filed by mail, law enforcement interpreted by 420 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: mail researchers all about these young girls and gangs, and 421 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: then that can really kind of skew the numbers, the statistics, 422 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: and our perceptions of girls participation. Well, and if you're 423 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: speaking of the law enforcement reports, if you're looking at 424 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: arrest reports, traditionally, when it comes to gang membership, the 425 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: cops are going to focus on guys. They're not going 426 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: to look for the girls. They're gonna look for who 427 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: they believe to be the most dangerous, you know, member 428 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: of the gang or the you know, threat to society. 429 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: And it's fascinating to see and fascinating slash depressing too 430 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: to see how the anecdotal reports on girls membership and 431 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: role in gang life changes when you talk to a 432 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: guy in a gang versus a girl in a gang, 433 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: Because when you talk to male gang members, it's usually oh, 434 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: she's just here for sex. She either we either have 435 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: sex with her, we rape her, or she goes out 436 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: and brings women in for us to then rape. Whereas 437 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: when you talk to female gang members, they will also 438 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: acknowledge that, yes, they will sometimes bring girls to the 439 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,239 Speaker 1: male gang members to rape, and will sometimes acknowledge too 440 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: that yeah, okay, they have to have sex with gang 441 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: members and perform different sexual acts in order for them 442 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: to you know, stay in good standing. But there are 443 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: usually more forthcoming in terms of the actual the additional 444 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: duties that they are performing as well, so that their 445 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: role becomes more complex when you actually start talking to 446 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: the girls who are involved, which isn't a huge surprise. 447 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: And then we see a report called Female gang Members, 448 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: A Profile and Aggression and Victimization, which notes that female 449 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: gang members are becoming quote hardcore and deadly and more 450 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: oriented to male crime, which is interesting. It's an interesting 451 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: language choice, I think, because nobody it's it's like, oh, wait, 452 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: this is males, you know, perform a certain kind of 453 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: crime and girls have a totally different kind of crime. 454 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: They're just grabbing his diamond rings and stuffing them into 455 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: their hats, exactly I would, And that's what I was 456 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: about to say that I would assume that when it 457 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: comes to gender and crime, the assumption would be that shoplifting, 458 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 1: petty theft, things like that, more misdemeanors would be girl crimes, 459 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: whereas guy crimes are going to be far more violent. 460 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: And speaking of violence, one major reason cited as for 461 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: why female gang members are become uming or have become 462 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: deadlier is access to guns. And when people talk to 463 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: girl game members about guns, some of them will completely acknowledge, like, Oh, yeah, 464 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: I mean I have the position I do because I 465 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: now carry a gun and it's not my boyfriend's gun, 466 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: it is my gun. And that was something that came 467 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: up in this article we read, particularly focusing on girls 468 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: in gangs in Los Angeles, and they were talking to 469 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: one former gang, female gang member nicknamed Bubbles, and when 470 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: they asked her about guns, she said that that was 471 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: one of the biggest misconceptions about girls and gangs, that 472 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: if they have firearms, they're just holding them for someone else. 473 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: And she said, no, no, no, no, if you're a 474 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: girl and a gang, like that's that's your gun because 475 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: that levels for those girls. I mean physically, they obviously 476 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 1: are not going to be able to take on and 477 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: beat up guys who would attack them, but a gun 478 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: levels of playing field, right, And they talk a lot 479 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: about the issue of respect. You hear, oh, even though 480 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: she's a girl, she has a lot of affect. And 481 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,719 Speaker 1: then they talk about well, actually, in reality, it's not 482 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: so much that they've garnered all this respect from their 483 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: gang members or their friends or peers or whatever. It's 484 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: just the fear. And so having your own firearm goes 485 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: into that whole Well, I'm going to earn respect when 486 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: really you're just engendering fear and everyone around you because 487 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 1: they don't want to get shot exactly. Um. So it's 488 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: just notable to see how that quote that Caroline just 489 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: read a minute ago was from paper fast forward ten 490 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: years to two thousand and six and Corrections today publish 491 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: as an article Girls and Gangs on the Rise in America, 492 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: and it talks about how all female gangs, not just 493 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: girls and gangs, but all female gangs exist but quote, 494 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: they're not yet classified as true street gangs, but are 495 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: headed in that direction. And it's just incredible to me 496 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: to see that in two thousand and six when clearly, 497 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: I mean like, obviously there haven't been all female violent 498 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: gangs in the same way that we would think of 499 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: in terms of say the ups in the Bloods, but 500 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: apparently that's on the rise. And then in two thousand 501 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 1: nine you have the arrest of Shante Henderson, who was 502 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: a female gang member who made it on the FBI's 503 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: Most Wanted List, which is a rarity for female criminals, 504 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: and she was possibly involved in up to fifty shootings 505 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: and over five murders. And Newsweek talked to Christopher bud Kie, 506 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: who's the head of the FBI's Criminal Enterprise Squad in 507 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: Kansas City where she was arrested, and he said, quote, 508 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: it's very unusual for a female to rise to this 509 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: level in the gang world, right. And when she was arrested, 510 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: she actually requested that she could have time to fix 511 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: her hair. She was very excited about being on camera, 512 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: being on the news. When she was in court and handcuffs, 513 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: she held up her hands like and smiled, you know, 514 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: as if hey look at me, I'm a celebrity. Well 515 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: and then and speaking of that celebrity, that's something that 516 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: you see more in these reports from the past few 517 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: years about girls and gangs. I'm sure it happens to 518 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 1: with guys in gangs. Is how social media is now 519 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: coming into play as well. Because there was one girl 520 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: who was actually killed via gang involvement, and her Instagram 521 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: was so many photos of her holding up guns, holding 522 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 1: up money, really proud of her gang status. I mean 523 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: like what like, like you said, Caroline, of leveraging that fear, 524 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: right exactly. But it just is interesting too when you 525 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: take into consideration that two thousand and six report that 526 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: Kristen decided saying that, well, you know, all female gangs 527 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: aren't classified as true street gangs, yet we're getting there, 528 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: and then you have somebody like Shante Henderson arrested. I mean, 529 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: women are just as capable of horrific acts of violence 530 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: as men are, and certainly it would do the police 531 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: well to catch up to that well. And that was 532 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: something that a big item that came out of the 533 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: London riots in two thousand eleven, of the police realizing 534 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: that girl gang participation was actually far stronger than they 535 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: kind of thought that it was just looking at the 536 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: people who are doing the looting and the stealing and 537 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: setting things on fire, and how that was related to 538 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: gang activities. Not to say that all the people involved 539 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: in the London riots were in gangs, but gang activity 540 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: was a big conversation um that came out of those events, right, 541 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: And when you look at girls specific reasons for joining gangs, 542 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the time it's it's not that it's 543 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: so different from the reasons that boys join gangs, but 544 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: there are some differences. Um gangs do offer if you 545 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: do have that domestic instability that Christen sided at the 546 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: top of the podcast, it can offer a sense of 547 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: family and a feeling of power. You've been powerless your 548 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: whole life. Maybe uh, these girls have been abused, maybe 549 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: they've been neglected, maybe some other sort of trauma has 550 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: happened in their lives and they have felt powerless. But 551 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: being part of this family that protects you quote unquote 552 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: might be more protection that you've ever received from an 553 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: actual biological family member, right, even though it might come 554 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: at the cost of being constantly paranoid that you're going 555 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: to be attacked by another gang member or raped by 556 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: members of your own gang. But I mean that kind 557 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: of we would think of where we're sitting right here, 558 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 1: that might seem like an just a wild choice for 559 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: a girl to make to willingly like walk into a 560 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: situation like that. But when you've grown up possibly being abused, molested, 561 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: raped by family members or by neighbors, whoever it might be, 562 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: if you're living in you know, situations where it's completely 563 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,479 Speaker 1: chaotic all the time, then it might not seem like 564 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: such a wild idea, right. Well, also, especially like you know, 565 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: girl gang members are no different in terms of you know, 566 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: hormones raging than any other girl in school. And so 567 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: there is also the issue of you feel like you're 568 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: falling in love with this boy and he's in a 569 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: gang and you want to be with him and he 570 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: brings you in. It's like this whole sort of twisted 571 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: love story that you end up in a life of 572 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: crime because of a boy who's also a member of 573 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,799 Speaker 1: a gang. Yeah, and if we step back just a 574 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: little bit, because it's important to note that for girls 575 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: in youth gangs, and they usually start getting involved around 576 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: ages twelve and thirteen, it starts very young. And the 577 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: hallmarks of girl gang members include things like low education. 578 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: They tend to drop out of high school by tenth 579 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: grade um, They have experienced and perpetrated violence in school. 580 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: They usually carry a knife and might even carry guns, 581 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,000 Speaker 1: sometimes for their boyfriends, sometimes for themselves to schools. And 582 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: again they come from dysfunctional and abusive homes. The type 583 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: of dysfunctional and abusive homes where you know, a call 584 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 1: from a school counselors not going to do any good, right, 585 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,319 Speaker 1: and uh, meta Chesney Lynde, who's a gang researcher at 586 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: the University of Hawaii, was talking about this, and she 587 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: was saying that it's not about girls becoming like guys, 588 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: although the themes are the same. She says that the 589 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: girls come from toxic, abusive families and are re victimized 590 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: in the gang setting. So it almost makes sense when 591 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: all you've known your entire life is violence or sexual violence, 592 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: even though it's a terrible thing to then join a 593 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: gang and experience that all over again. It's also a 594 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: pattern that a lot of these young girls are used 595 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: to um, and she says that girls choose the gang 596 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: for entirely understandable and even laudable goals given the constraints 597 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: that they experienced in a society that is increasingly likely 598 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: to police and pathologize girlhood. So how do these girls 599 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: then go about joining gangs? Because he would assume that 600 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: you can't just show up one day and be like, hey, 601 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: can I join? All right, cool, let's deal some drugs. 602 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: So there are a number of different ways that gang 603 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: initiation happened. Sometimes it is just via family connection. There 604 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of girls who are in gangs because 605 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: a parent a father, a mother, whoever has been in 606 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 1: a gang, and so they sort of have a legacy 607 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: right or in the case of someone like Jacqueline Montanez, 608 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: she actually joined a gang because her stepfather was in one, 609 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: but she joined the opposing gang because he was a 610 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: member of the Latin Kings. He molested Montanez for years 611 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: as when she was a young girl. She joined the 612 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: opposing gang in Los Angeles. I believe ended up killing 613 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: two members of the Latin Kings. And she's been in 614 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: jail for this crime for years, and she admits, I 615 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: wasn't trying to kill them, I was trying to kill him. 616 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: And so while she didn't join the same gang as 617 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: her stepfather and following his footsteps, she still joined a 618 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: gang directly in response to her stepfather being in one. Well, 619 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: and even if you have a family connection that might 620 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: give you sort of an initial entrance into a gang. 621 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: In terms of actual initiation, the two primary ways that 622 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: happens is by being jumped in or sexed in. Now, 623 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 1: if you're jumped in, which is less common than being sexed, 624 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: and if you're a girl, that's essentially when the gang 625 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: members will be you up. They will just beat to 626 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: a pulp and you'll have to take it and then hey, 627 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: you're in it, which Caroline, this is the point in 628 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: the podcast to where it's reminiscent of our Fraternities episode 629 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: and the kind of I mean, this is hazing too, 630 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: an even more violent extent. But when you are sexed in, 631 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: which is probably the most common form of gang initiation 632 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: for girls, is exactly what it sounds like. You will 633 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: be raped, forced to have sex with multiple, if not all, 634 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 1: members of the gangs, possibly their friends. Um, and that 635 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: is the violence that you have to endure, right. And 636 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: I asked a social worker friend about this because some 637 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: of the sources that Kristen and I read, we're saying like, yes, 638 00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: this is definitely a thing that happens all the time, 639 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: or oh, we talk to girls in gangs, and they said, no, 640 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,800 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. That's just the boys trying to sound tougher 641 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: than they actually are. And I was asking my social 642 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: worker friend about it, and she said, well, I mean, 643 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 1: it certainly does happen, but as with a lot of 644 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: these different types of violence and crimes committed, it really 645 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 1: varies from gang to gang, city to city, person to person, 646 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: But it does seem like rape, whether that's whether you're 647 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: sext in, jumped in whatever whatever way you get involved 648 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: with the gang. If you are a girl involved with 649 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: associated with the gang, rape is a common part right 650 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: of your life. Right. And one girl who was interviewed 651 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: and one of the articles we read was talking about 652 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: how it's absolutely a punishment. I mean, it's it's definitely 653 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: something that is used as a tool of authority to 654 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: keep girls in these gangs in line. Well, I mean, 655 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: that's the thing about rape in and of itself, is 656 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: that it's not about sex, about the power, right exactly. 657 00:38:54,840 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: So speaking of though rape and sex, the merry way 658 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 1: that a lot of girls drop out of gang life 659 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: or just sort of fade out. They might still be 660 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: associated with it, but aren't active in gang life anymore, 661 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: is due to pregnancy. That's why if you look at 662 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 1: girls involvement, it usually drops off at an earlier age 663 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: a lot of times because they get pregnant, which a 664 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: lot of times will simply propel the cycle of gang 665 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,879 Speaker 1: involvement because then that child will have at least one 666 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: parent who is involved in a gang, and that might 667 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,719 Speaker 1: then lead them getting involved in a gang, right exactly. 668 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of gang prevention tactics out there. 669 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: I mean, people in in various communities are not just 670 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: sitting on their hands letting this happen. But a lot 671 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: of the gang prevention tactics focus on de escalating violent behavior. 672 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 1: And some sources we read we're talking about how well, yeah, okay, 673 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: obviously you want to educate people about de escalating violence 674 00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: and not committing violent acts. But among girls, it might 675 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: be more effective to target really the root causes of 676 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: why they're joining gangs in the first place, tackling things 677 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: like poverty, molestation, abuse, neglect. Yeah, and this is one 678 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,799 Speaker 1: big reason why girls and gangs today are being described 679 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: as an invisible population, just because so much historically and 680 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: even today, so much of the focus has been on 681 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: curbing boys participation in gangs, whereas girls are very involved, 682 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: just possibly in different kinds of ways. But as you 683 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: were telling me, Caroline, when you were talking to your 684 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: social worker friend, the solution is not okay, well we 685 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: want to stop this, cuffs, go arrest some girls. Arresting 686 00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: is putting people behind bars, like sixteen year olds behind bars. 687 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: That's probably not going to solve this issue. No, I 688 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: mean the when I was speaking with her last night. 689 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: We were talking about the importance of mental health and 690 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: mental health care, and the importance of getting kids the 691 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: help they need. Um throwing state support behind social workers 692 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: who can actually intervene and be those people who can 693 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: take kids out of dangerous homes and dangerous situations. But also, 694 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, more of a focus on education, and not 695 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 1: just education about gangs and or or you know, uh, 696 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 1: sexual education or things like that, but also just um 697 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: letting girls know that there are options out there. You know, 698 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: when you're so mired in your terrible life circumstances that 699 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: have led you to join this gang, you might not 700 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: ever see a way out. You know. We talked about 701 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: this in our Team Pregnancy episode, where studies have shown 702 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: that if you educate girls about hey, you can be this, 703 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: you can be that, you can grow up to be 704 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: all of these amazing things. And here's how you do it. 705 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: And then here's some amazing role models that you can 706 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: meet and base your hopes and dreams off of. That 707 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: actually helps so many young girls stay on a path 708 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: to both not becoming pregnant at a young age but 709 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: also not joining a gang. But sadly, it seems like 710 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 1: the opposite is happening, because what are we seeing in 711 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: the headlines. I mean, just it's've been It was really 712 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: interesting to see how early, like the studies that we 713 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 1: found from the nineteen eighties up until say two thousand 714 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: and twelve, we're kind of few and far between when 715 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: they're focused on girl gangs. But now there were so 716 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 1: many articles just published since two thousand twelve, all of 717 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: them saying, okay, more and more and more and more, 718 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: these girls are getting involved and in more violent ways 719 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,640 Speaker 1: than they ever happened before. And clearly those kinds of 720 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 1: steps and those kinds of resources need to, if at 721 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: all possible, be implemented as quickly as possible, or else 722 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: we are going to continue to see as we have 723 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,919 Speaker 1: more and more headlines about how girls are becoming more 724 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: and more involved in gang life. So if there are 725 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,959 Speaker 1: social workers listening, or people who have had family member 726 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: where his friends get involved with gang life, anyone who 727 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,959 Speaker 1: has thoughts to contribute to this really important issue, we'd 728 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 1: like to hear from you. Mom Stuff at how stuff 729 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 1: works dot com is our email address. You can also 730 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff podcast and messages on Facebook, 731 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,399 Speaker 1: and we've got a couple of messages to share with 732 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: you right now. Well, I've got a let her here 733 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,720 Speaker 1: from Lisa about her episode on eyelashes, and she writes, 734 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: I was so excited that you decided to delve into 735 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,280 Speaker 1: this whole eyelash issue. My boyfriend and I recently embarked 736 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 1: on a project watching all Walt Disney animated feature films 737 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: in chronological order. We noticed in the early films for 738 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: the forties and fifties, so the female characters preferred method 739 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: for attracting innocent, wandering males was to flutter their eyelashes incessantly, 740 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: often while applying some makeup, or if they were animals, 741 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,959 Speaker 1: fluffing up some kind of feather or furry body bart 742 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: This happens with disturbed in frequency in these movies, especially 743 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: among the cartoon animals. Thumper, Seductress and Baby is a 744 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: particular example who sticks out in my memory, but she 745 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,600 Speaker 1: was not the only one applying this technique for snaring 746 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: her man. Luckily, when I fluttered my eyelashes incessantly at 747 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 1: my current boyfriend, it just creeps them out. But I 748 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,719 Speaker 1: used to have a boyfriend who was particularly entranced by 749 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 1: my fluttering eyelashes. I didn't even realize I was batting 750 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: my eyes at him, but apparently I was, and apparently 751 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,360 Speaker 1: he found it appealing. Perhaps I had internalized some messages 752 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: from my early childhood viewing of Disney cartoons about what 753 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,879 Speaker 1: I was supposed to do in order to attract a man, 754 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: and was putting those messages into practice without even realizing it. 755 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: Or perhaps I just bat my eyelashes more when in 756 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: the company of people I like. I'm going to start 757 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,440 Speaker 1: paying attention now to see if I can observe any 758 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: eyelash movement patterns in myself and maybe others too. So 759 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: thanks Lisa, alrighty. I have a letter here from Kelly 760 00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: in response to our same sex Weddings episode. She said, 761 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to write belatedly and share with you an 762 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: interesting change my wife and I made to our wedding party. 763 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: I married my beautiful wife about a year ago on 764 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: October twenty five at City Hall in San Francisco. We 765 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,800 Speaker 1: did have a wedding party with three on each side. 766 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: My best friend and her sister were our best women 767 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,320 Speaker 1: of honor, and the women on my side were bride's women. 768 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: My wife had her brother's with her on her side, 769 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,240 Speaker 1: and there were bride's men. It was awesome. I hated 770 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: the diminutive nature of made and there was no way 771 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:30,799 Speaker 1: the word groom was going to make it into our day. 772 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: Thank you for making my Monday and Wednesday amazing. You're welcome, Kelly. 773 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: And Kristin she has a ps for you. What she says, 774 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: I have a total girl crush on you. Kristen, you 775 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 1: must be one of a kind, oh, Kelly. Thanks that 776 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 1: Kristin Congress, She is one of a kind. Kelly's but 777 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,680 Speaker 1: thank you for writing in and thanks to everybody who's 778 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,200 Speaker 1: written into us. Mom stuff at how stuff works dot 779 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: com is our email address and to find links to 780 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 1: all of our social media as well as all of 781 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including this one. There's one 782 00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,920 Speaker 1: place to go, and it's stuff Mom Never Told You 783 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:08,320 Speaker 1: dot com For more on this and thousands of other topics. 784 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff Works dot com