WEBVTT - Trust Needs Proof: Who Really Controls Your AI? 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:04.480 I'm Malcolm gla Well and you're listening to smart Talks 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:09.040 with IBM. Imagine your business depends on a system you 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:13.600 didn't build and don't fully control. For years, it works perfectly. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.880 It's fast, reliable, affordable, so over time, more and more 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:21.279 of your operations rely on it. Then one day the 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.959 terms change. What once felt flexible now feels difficult to leave. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.520 Moving to another provider or bringing those capabilities back under 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:35.240 your own control could take years, cost millions, and disrupt 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:40.120 the business in the process. That's the challenge of digital sovereignty. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.200 Businesses today rely on all sorts of third party systems, 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:50.680 cloud platforms, data pipelines, AI models, software tools. Most days, 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:55.400 these systems operate quietly in the background, but when something changes, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:00.000 like costs go up or rules shift, organizations are forced 0:00:59.960 --> 0:01:03.920 to confront how much control and flexibility. 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:04.160 They actually have. 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.320 This is why digital sovereignty has shifted from policy concept 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:13.360 to board level priority. So to understand the challenge up close, 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:18.720 I traveled to Paris to attend Vivtec, Europe's largest technology conference, 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.880 to speak with two people who think about these questions 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:26.280 every day. On Apaula A Cis IBM's senior vice president 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:32.160 and chair for IBM, EMEA and APAC and Giovanni Daniello, 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.759 Group Chief Information Officer at AKSA. 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.800 Hello everyone, Welcome. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:44.720 To a live taping of the podcast Smart Talks with IBM. 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:47.920 I was downstairs in the IBM booths chatting with the 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.600 people who were doing the data sovereignty presentation, and they 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.320 were discussing the thing and I said, oh, it sounds 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.920 like you're solving a headache. 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:59.880 And the guy I was trying to said. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.240 We do it, IBM. We saw headaches and cure headaches, 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:05.440 and I want to start out with the two of you, 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.760 what is the headache in this instance. 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:13.680 So the topic of sovereignty gained a lot of traction 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.639 over the past few years, and even though I would 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.760 say it really became a buzzword this year, I think 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.000 that this actually started doing COVID when all the supply 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:31.360 chains became extremely stressed and companies and governments started to 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:32.600 understand that there were. 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:34.560 A lot of choke points in the world. 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.360 Right, so, how can I do more on ear shore 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:40.000 in how can I guarantee that I have autonomy of 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.760 key elements of my supply chain? I think was really 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.920 the wake up call, and then we entered in a 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:51.760 period of unfortunately many wars happening, constraining for example, energy security. 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:56.200 So all these disruptions in the world led companies and 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.360 governments to think, what is really that I need to 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.560 consider critical for me, and how do I have better 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:07.040 control of those capabilities? And now technology being at the 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.920 core of the operations, I think that actually increased the need. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.800 For companies to focus on sovereignty. So that is the headache. 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.640 Given that there are so many dependencies, given that we're 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.680 living in a world that is so interconnected, how do 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:25.200 you get autonomy, how do you get back control making 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:29.720 sure that you continue to operate in a collaborative ecosystem. 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:32.960 It's a difficult equilibrium in reality, because we have to 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:37.000 take all those dimensions into consideration, making sure that at 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:41.160 the same time we can continue to access innovation. And 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.720 that's where the paradigm is really very, very complicated to solve. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.160 So the headache we have in Exa and then probably 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.760 many large organizations in the world is exactly the topic 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.520 in Europe at least, It's about sovereignty exactly in the 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.800 terms you are talking about, and that's becoming a topic 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:06.200 that is very that is there's a lot of visibility 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:11.520 the agenda at very top executive level since probably it 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:13.960 started with coviy, they agree, but the last two years 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:15.600 there's been an acceleration clearly. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.600 Yeah, and I really have a few data points. Today 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:24.680 we announced a study through our IBM Institute of Business 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:29.800 Value where basically we asked companies around the world, so, 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.200 do you have visibility of your dependencies? 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:33.440 Right? 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:38.160 Do you know exactly where are your exposures? And only 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.919 nine percent of the companies said that they have that 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:46.039 level of visibility, and seventy one percent of the company 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.080 said that if they needed to switch a provider today, 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:50.040 it would be. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:51.800 Very difficult to do so. 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.799 So I think the headache this actually shows in numbers 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:57.680 the size of the headache. 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:03.120 Ye give a year and the insurance business speak to 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:06.599 the specifics of your own business. Why would this be 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.839 an issue that Am I right in thinking that this 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.839 is an issue that is a specific and special concern 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.600 to an insurance No. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:17.159 I don't think so. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.560 No, you know, no, I don't think so, because in reality, 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:24.880 it's an issue for organizations using technology, data and AI 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:30.320 as an important driver within the activities they manage insurance. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.360 Of course, insurance is about data, it's about people, it's 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:37.000 about technology, of course, so it's very very central, but 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:41.080 it's absolutely not limited to insurance because at the end, 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.719 if we want to talk a little bit more into details, 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:46.920 what is sovereignty Because everybody talks about sovereignty. 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:47.279 But what is it about? 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:50.840 And very often people believe that once you know where 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.920 your data are located, and if you are your open company, 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:58.200 if you have the certainty that data are located in Europe, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:02.880 many people believe I may say I'm sober incompatible, but 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.720 it's absolutely not enough. So there are models that not 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.719 only we are using an accept that are also very 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.200 very public on the market. Very often will refer to 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:17.400 four dimensions. Of course, data location is number one. If 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.160 you don't know where your data are, I mean you 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.240 don't know anything. But it's not only that, I mean 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:27.440 how do you operate? Who is operating the system, who 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.359 is patching, who is creating new versions of whatever the 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:32.800 feature that becomes available. 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:34.160 That's the second one. 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:40.080 The third one is contracts, legal terms, who is in 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.880 charge legally speaking of the activities we talk about, And 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.280 the last one is the technicality itself. Who is really 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.960 mastering the technical details, the underlying stack. Is it something 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:59.040 that is European, US, China, you know, and I mean 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:03.640 it's it's known by everybody. Most of the large European 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:09.680 companies and US companies are using US technologies. So the 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.080 difficulty in sovereignties to scan on a permanent basinis the 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:16.280 four dimensions, making sure that because you were saying Anna, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.680 that you know exactly what is exactly the situation on 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:21.640 your business on those four dimensions. 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.760 Give me an example of how a specific example of 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.920 what difference it would make where your data was being held. 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:34.160 In otherwords, in what sense our regulatory requirements for example, 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.640 different from one country to another, or from the EU 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.800 to North America, or is there a practical way to 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.120 kind of express those differences. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.880 Yeah, there are very clear regulations in many of the 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:52.000 countries regarding what type of data needs to reside inside 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:58.160 the country, right, so particularly financial data, health data, those 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:03.160 are really really controlled and they have to follow those 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:07.240 regulatory requirements. So the way that we approach that in 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:12.600 our architecture in our platform is to enforce those regulatory 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.560 requirements within the platform so that this is not just 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.280 relied from a contractual standpoint, but that you ensure with 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.760 governance tools and with capabilities that the platform is securing 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:30.600 that data in compliance with those regulatory aspects. And when 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:33.760 you think about sovereignty, it has to go beyond just 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:39.400 the regulatory and compliance requirements. It's really understanding your business requirements. 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:43.360 What are the applications that are truly mission critical and 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.560 that you need to ensure that have that level of 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:51.720 control because also controlling everything is not necessarily viable, not 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.480 from a technical standpoint and not from a business case standpoint. Right, 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:58.840 So that is the I think that is the challenge 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.160 that many companies are going right now, is to have 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.960 the visibility of their application mistake, how that matches the 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.640 business strategy, and then making the decisions on what is 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.080 the level of sovereignty that I need to apply. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.000 Let's say I'm a naive company. 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:19.439 I don't pay any attention to this, I have operations 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.240 in any different countries. What's the worst case scenario? What's 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.040 the down what happens if you don't act kind of 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.920 prudently around data sovereignty? 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.640 So I think the first aspect is if something happens 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.680 to your infrastructure that is sitting somewhere that you don't 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:42.319 have visibility, goes out for some reason a war and 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:48.240 energy blackout, any other cyber attack in your environment. If 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.560 you don't have a fallback plan, if you don't have 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.200 a way to move that application to operate from another 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.480 place that has the backups the real time data that 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.720 you are accessing to, you pretty much go out of 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:04.760 out of operations, right. So it's a that's a very 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:09.120 important question because I think it brings the sovereignty aspect 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.800 to what I believe is the strategic role that it plays. 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:18.240 It's about resiliency. It's not about necessarily just meeting regulatory requirements. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.520 And I think you need to do that from a 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.960 risk management standpoint, and I think an insurance company is 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:25.760 the best position to do that. 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.040 But it's not just regulations. 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:33.040 It's really making sure that you have continuous operation twenty 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.040 four by seven, which is pretty much what businesses need 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.880 to to achieve currectly. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:45.200 In some countries for insurance, for example, but not only 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:50.600 for insurance. In some countries there are obligations locally, for example, 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.800 to store data in the country. So back to your question, 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.080 there's a limit to how naif you can be if 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.040 you want to develop a business, because that's at the 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.160 heart of getting the authorization to operate and to run 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.480 your business in the countries where you would like to. 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.880 But then once you are over this kind of m 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.800 VP of requirements that are mandatory for you to open 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.439 and operate, then of course, I mean that's a good thing. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.400 That and what you said is completely completely relevant. 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:27.320 How does how does one anticipate these issues changing over time? 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:29.800 In other words, you said that people are going to 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.559 wake up to the importance of data sovereignty during COVID. 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.160 I'm just curious if we fast forward five years, do 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.960 we imagine that the kind of landscape in which companies 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:41.880 like us, you and I are operating is going to 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:45.560 get more complex or less complex? What's the what's the 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:46.520 movement in this? 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.000 I think it's going to become more complex because AI 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.679 is really accelerating all the trends. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.080 Why I want you to tell can you explain? 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.120 I want you to kind of do a little deep 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:03.320 dive on Y specifically. Is it about AI that's complicating this? 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:05.440 That's a very good question. 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:11.120 AI now moves from you know, actions just being taken 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.679 from you know, somebody operating a system to the technology 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.400 actually making decisions. Right, So you have to have a 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:24.760 much better visibility of what systems AI is touching, what 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.920 data it is accessing, and where right, So you have 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.560 to have that mapping much more clear because the stakes 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.960 are higher now on how technology is actually operating your business. 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:37.480 Right. 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:41.280 So I do think that there is an acceleration because 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.040 of that. The second element AI is going to increase 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.440 the amount of vulnerabilities that are going to be either 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.199 identified or created. So you have to have an ability 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:57.640 to continuously monitor, monitor, and scan what is happening in 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.040 the cybersecurity landscape so that you can prevent and react 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.079 in a much faster way. So there are more elements 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.719 of disruption that are coming up as a result of 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:10.319 the acceleration of technology. 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:13.360 I can give you a concrete example. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:20.640 So the way applications work today is pretty much deterministic. 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.559 You have rules, you have data, you have processes. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.720 Very often embed it into the code, into the business 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.200 logic so that are executed and very often if you 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.600 have the same inputs, you have the same output. And 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.800 so you have I mean application with modules, you have APIs, 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.280 you have data, you have you know beautiful. 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.000 Mobile first front ends. You know all these fancy things 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.440 that we run on the cloud or on PREMIU in whatever. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.840 So let's project yourself into a couple of years from 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.200 now where the architecture is going to be agentic native 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.520 with concepts such as head less applications. So you will 0:13:56.559 --> 0:14:02.320 interact with kind of prompt inter phase and you will 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.440 start asking as a customer or as an employee or 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.400 as a partner, you will ask, interacting and asking a 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.520 certain number of problems to be solved. And this is 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.480 going to be given through tokens and all these all 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:20.440 these technologies into an ecosystem of digital agents orchestrated and 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:25.200 orchestrating activities looking at what is in the in the 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.760 rug in terms of what is the process telling me 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.280 about how do I have to manage that? What kind 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.760 of data do I have in my repository? And you 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.040 enter into something which is going to become much more probabilistic, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.240 and you have llms there in the meantime in the 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:44.640 middle trying to get answers, smart answers to queries that 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:50.080 will come from specialized digital agents. So has nothing to 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.240 do with the way applications run today. And if you 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.760 look at the flow of data today that we know, 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.760 we know where the data located. That was saying, you know, 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.720 a lot of things we know and how the data 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.760 is going to flow in all the directions in this 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:11.440 Aargentic native architecture. You understand that, as you said that 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.840 this is going to accelerate significantly and the need to 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:21.000 understand the underlying stack and architecture in the sovereign ecosystem 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.920 is going to be crucial. You know, data can suddenly 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.160 become public public in the way they can be used 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.080 to train models, and a little bit of your IP 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.640 step by steap going to go into those those models 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.720 if they learn. If you are not careful, that's what 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:38.480 it's going to happen. Of course, there are ways to 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.440 prevent that, but if you're not careful, you can suddenly 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.920 see the world around you becoming more intelligent than you 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:45.840 on your own business. 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.320 It seems like there's a this is a very crude 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.160 way of putting it, but there's a race going on 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.800 with the technology on running one race and then the 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:59.640 other race. Is our ability to kind of make sense 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.120 of it, have visibility and integrate the technology into the 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.640 way we do our who's winning that race right now? 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:07.800 Is it? Is it hard to keep up with the technology. 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.400 That's why I think you need the technology to govern 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:16.040 the technology right and and to me, that is what 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.840 our proposition with this platform that we launched a few 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:23.560 weeks ago called Sovereign Core, is to provide that that 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.400 those that tool in and those capabilities to help organizations 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.400 create those capabilities. Because what we learned already is that 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.880 as you have money explained very well, the technology is 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:41.360 going to accelerate exponentially. How do you map that with 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:45.440 that same level of speed? Only another technology that is 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:49.960 going to you know, operate at the same level of acceleration. 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:52.960 And that is exactly the proposition that we have in 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.560 supporting our clients. So that's the headache that you're trying 0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:56.960 to solve. 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.760 Do I'm assuming you've been in this field of technology 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:02.880 for how many. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.199 Years or thirty years? 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.920 Is there any I'm curious to compare the moment we're 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:13.280 into any previous moments. So you've now lived through several 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.160 technological upheavals. How does this one compare to the ones 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:19.080 earlier in your career? 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.919 For me, this one is very clearly the one that 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:30.080 has the highest potential and in terms of speed, there's 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.000 no precedent. Everything we've done in the past where we've 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.879 been trying to modernize. Let's take a complete, complete exam 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.520 modernizing business applications. We had this discussion a couple of 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.960 months ago. So like all the companies in the world, 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.879 we have legacy applications. All all the companies have legacy 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.080 applications that have been written, I don't know, thirty fifty 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:56.880 years ago, and the journey to modernize those applications has 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.439 been the last let's say, the last fifteen years, something 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.600 like very often a five years ticket every time you 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:08.080 want it to work to modernize something, including migration and decommissioning. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.360 And every time we even a year ago, every time 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.840 we were thinking about how there's technology out there we 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.560 can go much much, much faster, we've always been blocked 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.480 and then we always came back to that unit of 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:25.280 performance of the five years. 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:27.200 And since this. 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:33.840 Year, things are become potentially feasible because that's the Augentic revolution, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.880 because then you can specialize agents like people in a team, 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.880 to split the process into subtask and everybody is going 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.400 to be very smart and intelligent in solving a part 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:46.760 of the problem. And then if you are good enough 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:50.040 to orchestrate that towards an outcome, which could be an 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:55.280 application modernization ABC whatsoever. Potentially I'm saying potentially, but this 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.600 is now technologically we see that it can work. You 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:00.840 can do that, not any more five years, but maybe 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.000 I don't know, a year and a half, two years, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.439 maybe a little bit less, why not, I don't know. 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.480 But you see, the difference is simply huge. I've never 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:09.240 seen that before. 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.480 Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.200 I think the compression that you're seeing in project delivery, 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:20.280 in new products that we are releasing, updating versions of products, 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.320 it's something that is absolutely unprecedented. Yeah, so the base 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.400 of innovation is happening very fast. And if you think 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:32.040 that AI has already created a tremendous impact, let's wait 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.919 for quantum, right, which is going to even take this 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:36.800 to another level. 0:19:37.320 --> 0:19:39.040 And the mixed the combination. 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:39.800 Prombination of both. 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:41.640 Yes, it's a very. 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:45.199 Interesting contradiction at the core of all this, which is 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:51.719 that intuitively, we know that innovation thrives on openness into connectedness, 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:55.679 you know, no border or whatever. But so DATUS already 0:19:55.680 --> 0:20:01.240 makes us think very specifically and often, I would imagine, 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.800 painfully about the reality of orders. 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.240 How do you manage that contradiction? 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.120 I think that is really the challenge that we are 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.760 all facing right now, right, I don't think we have 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:18.480 one hundred percent clear answer yet, there are certain elements 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:24.200 of this stack that clearly, I mean, trying to reinvent 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.840 is actually going to be a reinvention. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:28.000 Of the wheel. 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.480 Like I mean, I'm not going to develop chips from 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.119 the scratch from scratch, for example, infrastructure from scratch. But 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.240 there are other elements of the stack that I can 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:38.560 get much better control. 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:39.080 Right. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.679 So, for example, to the point that you've anni made before, 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:46.200 where my data is sitting, what is the orchestration layer 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.199 that I can implement so that I can bring the 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.800 right player at the right time. So look at the 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:55.600 stack of technology that you are implementing and see what 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.520 are the elements where number one, it's feasible to achieve 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:04.240 control and number two, I know that it's it's something 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.080 that I actually have to do to make my business resilient. 0:21:07.600 --> 0:21:08.960 And focus on those. 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:12.080 Right, because if you try to address the entire stech, 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:15.080 or if you try to create a model that you 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:20.760 basically build a fortress, that's not going to be even 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.239 feasible for you to achieve. Right, I normally say that 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:27.600 sovereignty is not about building walls it's about building bridges, right, 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.160 It's how you really created those connections. 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.480 I like, I like the way you phrase it. That's 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:33.920 exactly that. 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:40.439 Because at the end, if you put sovereignty as an 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:45.560 architecture requirement when you do design, I don't say it's 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.440 the it's it's it's the key to this very difficult 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:55.080 you know, paradying, but at least it's making choices easier. So, 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.800 for example, if you if you don't put sovereignty as 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:02.760 a business requirements and you want to develop your business 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.919 in the cloud, what you are going to do is 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:09.280 probably look at the available features that features from the 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:12.679 cloud provider. You're going to use those features full speed 0:22:12.720 --> 0:22:15.200 to go as fast as possible, as efficient as possible, 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:16.680 and get access to all the stack. 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.360 Innovation and everything else. And the day you have a. 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:24.120 Problem, you cannot switch, or it will take you five 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:27.760 years and five hundred million to switch. If you take 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:34.800 the sovereignty as a requirement by design. When you want 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:39.680 to start the configuration of your stack, you ask yourself, 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:42.800 what do I have to concretely put here as a 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.000 configuration item? If I want to be, for example, multi 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:50.800 cloud compatible or multi cloud and on prem compatible, what 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:54.280 kind of additional technologies maybe I have to use in 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:58.320 order to be able to I mean, do some portability 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:01.119 of some workload from one platform to another. 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:03.280 Not because I want to do that every day, because 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:04.000 it makes no sense. 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:06.600 But if if tomorrow I have a problem, I want 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:09.520 to be sure that by design I can I know what. 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:11.280 The process I'm going to use, what's the process is 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.560 going to use to do that portability. So these are 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:18.680 elements that Again, if you don't design your architecture using 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.520 those those elements, you wake up in the morning you 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:25.240 have a problem and you have no solution except spending 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:26.120 alpha billion euro. 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.560 So that's that's that's the first point I wanted to make. 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:35.040 Now the second point is if you want to turn 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.440 technology into a business outcome, at the end, you need 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:45.320 to be very precisely activating a technology you know. So 0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:48.280 at the end you have to make a choice, yes 0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:50.880 I activate this feature you know, and yes I use 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.560 this tech provider this solution. 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:55.280 At the end, you don't escape. 0:23:57.000 --> 0:24:00.240 And what it also allows to do is make making 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:05.560