1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: Podcast playground, I'm Buzznight the host have Taken a Walk 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: Music History on Foot. Follow us at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: tune in, iHeart, cast box, or wherever you get your podcasts, 4 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: and you can also head to taking a Walk dot 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: com and you can listen to all episodes. You can 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: check out transcripts. You could leave us suggestions comments as well. 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: Maybe you could even suggest someone you think should be 8 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: on Taking a Walk Today. Our special guest is singer 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: songwriter extraordinaire Jimmy Webb. So much of Jimmy's work is 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: music history. The list of Jimmy Webb's accomplishments is the 11 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: stuff legends are made of. Rolling Stone magazine listed to 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: him as one of the top fifty songwriters of all time. 13 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: Hits like Wichita Alignment recorded certainly by Glenn Campbell, but 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: even recorded by n' roses, the work that Jimmy did 15 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: with the Fifth Dimension, Up, Up and Away, and we 16 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: can go on and on, and we will go on 17 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: and on with Jimmy Webb, Who's playing at the City 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: Winery in Boston on April sixth, twenty twenty three. Well, 19 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: Jimmy Webb, it is so great to have you on 20 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 1: taking a walk, even though it's virtual, so we can 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: sort of imagine walking along the beach or something. But 22 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: thanks for being on. Oh yeah, it would be a 23 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: beautiful day for a walk, and we could go right 24 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: down here to this beach not far from my house. 25 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: I can pretend that perfect. So take us back to 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: that moment of your first public appearance as a performer, 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: playing in your father's Baptist church. Oh my goodness. Well, 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: my mother had given me piano lessons since age six, 29 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: and her goal for me, her dream really was for 30 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: me to be the pianist at the first Baptist church 31 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: in Eldoreto, Oklahoma, where my father was a Baptist minister, 32 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: full on Southern Baptist ordained minister. And uh, I think 33 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: I finally, you know, after a lot of cajoling and 34 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: a lot of push, push and pull between mother and son, 35 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: I finally made it to the church piano bench. You know. 36 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: Then I think I would have been about eleven, ten 37 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: ten or eleven. And then I remember also they had 38 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: an Oregon there, so I began to play a little 39 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: bit of organ. I also accompanied my father on these 40 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: evangelical journeys in the summertime, revival meetings and what have you. 41 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: I played weddings, I played funerals. I played parties, of course, 42 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: you know Christian non dancing parties, because you know, we 43 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: weren't allowed to dance in the Babtist church, which reminds 44 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: me of a Glenn Campbell's story. I have to tell 45 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: you just quickly. Okay, sure, you said to me one time, 46 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: he said, Jimmy, he said, you know why Baptists don't 47 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: make love standing up? And I said, no, Glenn, I don't. 48 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: He said, it's because they're afraid people will think they're dancing. 49 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: Dancing was a real big no no and a theme that, 50 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, a threat we could follow because I was 51 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: never comfortable with confining myself to church music. So you 52 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: discovered songwriting really as a teenager? Is that correct? I wrote? 53 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: I wrote a song called someone Else when I was 54 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: twelve years old and we had moved it to Oklahoma City. 55 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: It was a very disturbing time in my life because 56 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: I had an agrarian childhood. I was always on the farm, 57 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: always around animals, working in the fields. I mean we 58 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: did hard, hard manual. Later on, I mean we weren't slaves, 59 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: but in a way we were because my grandfather was 60 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: very stern. And I remember my first cotton picking adventure. 61 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: My grandma made me a sack. When I was eight 62 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: years old, I was picking cotton, so I would sneak out. 63 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: When I was twelve, thirteen, fourteen, I would go to 64 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: the sakhop at school, where I was definitely not supposed 65 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: to be. Okay, I wrote a song called It's Someone Else, 66 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: and believe it or not, it took some twenty five 67 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: years later. ARTI Garfunkel recorded that song that I wrote 68 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: when I was twelve years old, so I had a 69 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: grip on it from a very early age. I sort 70 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 1: of knew what the mechanics of so writing were about, 71 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: just instinctively. And I had a great teacher in Oklahoma 72 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: City named Susan Goddard who really helped me work out 73 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: improvisational stuff, which is what jazz musicians do all the time. 74 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: They just improvise, and in a way, this improvisation is 75 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: the bridge to creativity. That's a tool that you use 76 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: to create your own melodies and your own chord patterns. 77 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: So you took off to LA and your first job 78 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: was transcribing other people's songs. Right, Well, people say oh 79 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: can you can you write music? And I always say, well, 80 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: you know, if you can read music, you can write music. 81 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the end of that argument, you know. 82 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: I mean, once I realized that I could pick up 83 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: five or ten bucks, you know, to sit down and transcribe, 84 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,559 Speaker 1: that is, to listen to someone else's song and write 85 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: it down in musical language, which I was, you know, 86 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: was a like falling off a log from me at 87 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: that point. I was I was sixteen, sixteen, and seventeen 88 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: years old. I had my ears have always been my guide, 89 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: and so I was using my ears to make not 90 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: a lot of money, but to get by. And I 91 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: was on my own. I had no visual means of support. 92 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: I was outside of my family. And if someone asked 93 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: me what I what I was doing, or what's your 94 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: work or you know, have you got a job, or 95 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I'm a professional songwriter. You know, I 96 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: can't explain to you why I thought of myself that way. 97 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: I just knew that's what I wanted to do, and 98 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: I was doing it. I was writing songs every day. 99 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: So then this little song by the time I get 100 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: to Phoenix pops out of your head, and that really 101 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: opened a few doors in your career, didn't it well. 102 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: By the time I get to Phoenix, I wrote my 103 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: first My first real gig in LA was I was 104 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: a contract writer at Motown Records and actually they're publishing 105 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: arms called Joe Bett. So I was signed to Joe 106 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: Bett and they used to pay me on a piece 107 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: meal basis. I would bring in a song and if 108 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: they liked it, they would give me fifty bucks. It 109 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: was during that period that I wrote. By the time 110 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: I get to Phoenix, I actually wrote it for Paul Peterson, 111 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 1: who you may recall was on the Donna Reed Show. 112 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: He was a Motown artist and I was the only 113 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: white writer in the office. And so the white I 114 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: don't want to get off in a cultural thing here 115 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: and this is not cultural at all. They were so 116 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: wonderful to me in Motown, and without Motown, I wouldn't 117 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: you and I wouldn't be having this conpetict. They were 118 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: just so fantastic to me. But I would get all 119 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: the crossolders I would get in to put put it plainly, 120 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: they would have me write for all the white artists 121 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: there were. There were there Tony Martin they had signed 122 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: who used to be a huge musical star with Mjam 123 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: Tony Martin I wrote for and Paul Peterson I by 124 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: the time I get to Phoenix for and he didn't 125 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: like it, and so it ended up on the shelf somewhere. Now, 126 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: because this is a pretty good story, you cut to 127 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: about two years later and I'm moving, I'm leaving Motown 128 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: and I'm going over to Johnny Irivers Music. And when 129 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: I left Motown, they said, oh, all these songs. You 130 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: can have all these songs back, because we're never going 131 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: to cut them. We don't think that they're appropriate for Motown. 132 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: And it was a wonderful thing for them to do. 133 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: They let me walk with my publishing. And one of 134 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: the songs they gave me was by the time I 135 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: get to Phoenix, another one was Up, Up and Away, 136 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: and another one was Didn't We, which you know is 137 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: almost almost considered to be a great American songbook number. 138 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: So they gave me a whole bunch of hit songs 139 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: that I went over to Johnny Rivers Music and that's 140 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: where I met the Fifth Dimension and sort of became 141 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: their pianist but kind of their music musical director. And 142 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: of course eventually they cut up up in a way. 143 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: All those songs that Motown gave me, they were all hits, 144 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: every single one of them, you know, and I had 145 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: written them at a very young age. You know, I 146 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: was in a very very fertile period. You know. I'd 147 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: write maybe two or three songs a week, you know, 148 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: just without even trying. I wish I could do that now, 149 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: but I can't. It blows me away. Yeah, the amount 150 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: of work that was being churned out, and the brilliance 151 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,079 Speaker 1: of it, and the fact that you were so young, 152 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: but yet what you were writing about seemed like you 153 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: had lived a longer life. Well, that is that is 154 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: not really a paradox in my view, because and I 155 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: stated this, you know, very clearly in my and my 156 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: first book which I wrote about songwriting, called Toon Smith. 157 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: It's my belief that when you're when you're in your 158 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: teens in early twenties, that's when you're like unexposed film. 159 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: You're like completely blank canvas that has not been utilized 160 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: at all, and particularly your emotional reactions they're all fresh. 161 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you're never going to be as in love 162 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: at thirty five or forty years of age as you 163 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: were at seventeen. I mean, love is like this huge. 164 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: It preemps everything in your life, you know. I mean, 165 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: I go back and I read my lyrics then, and 166 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: they're all about how I would rather die. I would 167 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: rather die than lose this, you know. I mean even embarrassed. 168 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 1: Some of those lyrics, like really embarrass me to death 169 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: because I was so absolutely, you know, gobsmacked by some 170 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: well one or two girls in particular. That I wrote 171 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: a lot of songs for Romance was a great vehicle 172 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: for me, and it provided me with a lot of 173 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: raw material because I wasn't very successful at it. Do 174 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: you remember the first time you heard one of your 175 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: songs on the radio? Yes, I do. I remember one 176 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: day I was I didn't know that Johnny Rivers, who 177 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: I owe a great deal too. He was my boss 178 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: at Seoul City, at Johnny River's Music, and he was 179 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: an old friend of Glenn Campbell's. They had made a 180 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: record called The Long Black Veil at Mercury Records some 181 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: years before, and Johnny had said, this guy, you know, 182 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: he ought to be a star because he can play, 183 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: he can sing, he can do everything. You know. I 184 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: heard Glenn one time play Bonaparte's Retreat through his nose okay. 185 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: So he really was a talented guy. And so Johnny 186 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: had recorded by the time I get to Phoenix, and 187 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: he had Glenn come over and he played for him, 188 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: and he said, I haven't put this out as a 189 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: single to you and Al, speaking of Al Dolori, do 190 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: you guys want to put this out? They were both 191 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: sitting there and they both said, I don't get it. 192 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: Why are you giving us this song? This is probably 193 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: a hit? And he said it's a great line. He said, well, guys, 194 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: he said, you can only have one number one record 195 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: at a time. At the time he was he had 196 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: a number one record with a song he had written 197 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: called Poor Side of Town, which I still think is 198 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: one of the best songs I ever heard. So he 199 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,439 Speaker 1: was an inspiration to me, and he was a conduit 200 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: to Glenn. Now, one day, I'm driving down sant Anna 201 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: Freeway and the radio comes on and I knew nothing 202 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: about any of this. I didn't know anything about Glenn 203 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: Campbell except that I had since age fourteen, so that 204 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: I heard his first record, I said, I want to 205 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: write songs for that guy. So I always in the 206 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: back of my mind was one of these days I'm 207 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: going to get a song with like Campbell. So now 208 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: I'm driving down the road and all of a sudden, 209 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: I hear Glenn Campbell's singing by the time he gets Phoenix, 210 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: which is kind of an epiphany that almost caused like 211 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: an eighty car smashup, because I was trying to get 212 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: off of the road and park my car and control myself. 213 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: Because the first time that happens to you, it's indelible. 214 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: It's this wild moment when you, I mean literally all 215 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: your dreams come true. It's a very prosaic afternoon. You're 216 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: driving an old Volkswagon and you're going down to Newport 217 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: Beach to see some fraternity boys and drink some beer, 218 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, there's your song on the radio, 219 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: and it seems unreal. It seems like you're outside your body, 220 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: watching yourself listening to your song on the radio. That's 221 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: the only way I can describe it. Now. I felt 222 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: the same way when I heard mister Snai I just 223 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: sing one of my songs on the I heard that 224 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: voice singing my song, and luckily I was on a 225 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: back road that day, and I just pulled over and 226 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: I listened to this wonderful Don Costa arrangement. What a lucky, 227 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: lucky guy. I am all those prayers out in the 228 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: middle of the field, out in the middle of the 229 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: cotton patch, praying, you know that one day I would 230 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: be able to have my music sung by real recording artists. 231 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: It all became real. I can't I can't explain how 232 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: that feels, even as I'm sitting here today. It was 233 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: such a powerful fantasy. And to actually watch it come true. 234 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: When I was eighteen nineteen years old and Lardy Garfunkel 235 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: was recording on one of my songs, and Tony Bennett 236 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: Barbara Streisan cut a song and I called a Little 237 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: Tin Soldier, which was a very very early war but 238 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: war protest song. And to hear these voices that I 239 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: had known all my life chiming in with my lyrics, 240 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: I think that words fail me. And that's a very 241 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: unusual thing for me to say, because I am but 242 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: I can't quite get that one into words. It's a 243 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: transcendent feeling. And I hope this doesn't sound egotistical, but 244 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: when you hear those voices, that caliber of artists, when 245 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: you hear those people singing your songs, you know, somewhere 246 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: deep down inside there's a little self satisfied corner of 247 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: your soul. No matter how modest you may be or 248 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: think you are, there's a part of you that says, now, 249 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: I'm a part of history. This is history forever, you know, 250 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: for sure. Hard it's hard to explain, it's complicated, but wonderful. 251 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: So on this podcast, we had many months ago a 252 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of Bill Payne from this band 253 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: called Little Feet, Yes, and he told me that, due 254 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: to the connection with Fred Tackett, that the first paying 255 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: gig that Little Feet ever did was a birthday party 256 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: of yours. Is that correct? Yeah? It was my thirtieth 257 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: birthday party, and they set up in my front yard 258 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: and I was, uh, you know, Freddie. Freddie's like a 259 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: brother to me. Arkansas boy that I heard I heard 260 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: playing in the night club one night and brought him 261 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: home with me, and so you're you're with me now. 262 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: But he had struck up like a really good friendship 263 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: with with Lowell George. And I got to know Lowell 264 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: and I'm fascinated by his writing. I love other writers. 265 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: Just this morning, I was listening to Warren Zevon and 266 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: on this line poked out at me he said, hell 267 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: is only half full, you know. And I loved Warren. 268 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: I loved him, and I loved Lowell. He had this 269 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: wonderful slide lap guitar kind of style. He used to 270 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: wear a big socket wrench on his middle finger on 271 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: his left hand, and he used that it was a 272 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: perfect slide and he sung. He sung better than most 273 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: of the singers around him that in that day and age. 274 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: He eventually he actually taught Bonnie Rait. He talked Linda 275 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: Ronstadt and he talked be you know a lot of 276 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: pretty girls. I don't know. I can't figure that one out, 277 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: but he but he taught a lot of pretty girls 278 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: how to sing and how to sing better. His phrasing 279 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:01,360 Speaker 1: was great. He's a wonderful writer. And he died sadly 280 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: just as things were breaking for Little Feet at Warner 281 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: Brothers Records. He died sadly of a heroin overdose. I 282 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: love that band, and my favorite album is Dixie Chicken. 283 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: I don't know whether you've heard that one, but I have. Yeah, 284 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: I love that song about it. And And then one night 285 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: in the lobby of the Carmodore Hotel, I chanced to 286 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: meet a bartender who said he knew her, well, all 287 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: the boys along the bar, they began to sing along. 288 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: All the guys in the bar knew the song that 289 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: she had taught him. Yeah, I'm surprised that you bring 290 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: them up, but you know, still very much in love 291 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: with that band and brings back a lot, a lot 292 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: of memories. I remember that day very clearly, and to 293 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: tell you the truth, I didn't know what was their 294 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,959 Speaker 1: first gig, but I found out. I found out late. 295 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 1: It's nice. It's nice that he would mention that. So 296 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: how important in our life is music? Can you express 297 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: that in any form to me? Well, we get married 298 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: to it, we get buried to it, we dine to it, 299 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: we jog to it, we meditate to it. We entertain 300 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: our children with it. One of the earliest things we 301 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: do is we teach our children's songs and they sing 302 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: them back to us. We worship to it, we make 303 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: love to it. There are very few things that we 304 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: do in life that, if there are any, that aren't 305 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: accompanied by music. And unfortunately, because America has a rich 306 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: treasury of music and has a huge bench, a huge depth, 307 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: and a lot of great songwriters stretching back, unfortunately the 308 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: role of the songwriter has always been somewhat minimalized. But 309 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: songs and music are actually what make all the wheels 310 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: go round in the world. In the world of entertainment, 311 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 1: it's the secret ingredient. Try to make a movie without it, 312 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,959 Speaker 1: to try to have a Broadway show without it, you know, 313 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: try to have a wedding without it. I mean, try 314 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: to do anything without it, and you'll find that you'll 315 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: find that something's missing. And because there is so much 316 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: of it and it's so readily available, and frankly now 317 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: because it's so cheap, we tend to, I think as 318 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: a society undervalue it. But I believe that music making 319 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: and the job of creators. And this isn't because I've 320 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: been on the Asscat Board for twenty five years, but 321 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: I have been. It's been a struggle from day one 322 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: to make sure that songwriters get paid something approximating a 323 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: fair amount of money for the use of their music. 324 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: It's a struggle that goes has gone on year after 325 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: year after year. I thought I might be on the 326 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: board for two or three years. Twenty five years later, 327 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: I'm saying I can't leave the board because we're on 328 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: the wall. You know, we're on the wall. We're watching 329 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: for the next technological advancement that's going to disadvantage songwriters, 330 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: which seemingly, you know, like they all get around to 331 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: disadvantaging songwriters in one way or another. And I don't 332 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: want to go into all the technical details behind that, 333 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: but streaming has kind of been a disaster songwriters, and 334 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: streaming is the only way, just about the only way 335 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: we get paid anymore. So we're having to do with 336 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: I can't even remember what it is, but last time 337 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: I checked, what we got was zero point zero seven 338 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: to eight percent per stream, which means that you could 339 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 1: have a million selling record and your publisher would send 340 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 1: you a check for twenty five hundred dollars. You know. 341 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: You know, in the old days, we had a million, 342 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: million selling single that put the bacon on the table, 343 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: that kept the family going for another year, that paid 344 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: for the big house, you know, and a couple of cars, 345 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: a middle class a decent middle class lifestyle for a songwriter. 346 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: And you know, unfortunately those days are over. So it's 347 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: kind of hard to encourage people today. When young writers 348 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: come in and say what should I do? I usually 349 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: say quit, go do something else, Go be an actor. 350 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: Actors get paid, you know, songwriters don't get paid. Ultimately, 351 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 1: your question was how important music is, Well, it has 352 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: to be important to you to do it, because there's ups, 353 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: there's downs, there's hits, there's misses, there's long dry spells, 354 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: there's there's times when you can feel like you can't write. 355 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: The whole condition of the writer is one of being 356 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: completely open emotionally, which makes a writer a songwriter, but 357 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: also authors, any kind of a writer. It makes them 358 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: vulnerable to so many emotional problems that I can't even 359 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: describe it. But all those sad songs that break your heart, 360 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: they were written by people whose hearts were breaking. So yeah, 361 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: I think it's important. I think it's a calling. I 362 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: think it. I think it'll come back. I think right 363 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: now that songwriting is in trouble because of rap. Rap 364 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: is pre emptying, is sucking up a tremendous amount of 365 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,959 Speaker 1: the oxygen in the room without contributing a whole lot 366 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: to songwriting per se. And I'm not knocking, and I 367 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: don't want any you know, anybody writing your letters and 368 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 1: saying you know, I'm a racist or anything like that. 369 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: Remember my first job was at Motown, but I learned 370 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: to write songs at Motown, and I am worried about songs. 371 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: I think that we have to take care of songs 372 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: as an art form. Well, folks who are going to 373 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: see you at the City Winery April sixth in Boston 374 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: can look forward to stories of songs and your music. 375 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful for all that you have given us, 376 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: that you continue to give us, and that you were 377 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: on our virtual edition here of taking a walk. I'm 378 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: so appreciative. It was a nice walk, very very nice 379 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: walk on a wonderful, wonderful afternoon. I appreciate it. Thank 380 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: you very much, Thank you. Taking a Walk with Buzznight 381 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: is a b will on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 382 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.