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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, the

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Speaker 2: show where you don't get to be the one who

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Speaker 2: decides what's cool. Instead, I the host, Margaret Kiljoy decide

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Speaker 2: what's cool, which is a strange irony, but there's no

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Speaker 2: way around it because no one can start podcasts because

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Speaker 2: it's illegal and the law and morality are identical. Our

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Speaker 2: guest today is Jamie Loftus.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Jamie Hi, Margaret, dude to my status is starting

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Speaker 3: a podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am currently considered a fugitive.

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Speaker 3: That's true, but I think but I think it's actually

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Speaker 3: I think it's it's worth it to get my little

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Speaker 3: ideas out into the world.

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Speaker 2: When podcasts are outlawed, only outlaws of podcast.

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Speaker 1: Me and Dex Shepherd against the world.

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Speaker 2: That's right. That's why we're all going to get the vests.

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Speaker 2: But we're not going to tell you what I mean

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Speaker 2: by that. Instead, I'm going to introduce the producer, Sophie.

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Speaker 2: That's me, Matron of Crime. I'll take it okay and

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Speaker 2: are well now. I just feel bad saying the names

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Speaker 2: of everyone involved because they're all doing crime. But Ian

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Speaker 2: is our audio engineer, and everyone is to say Hi, Ian, Hi, Ian, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Hi, Ian, sorry about your recent breaking the law by

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Speaker 1: participating in this evil empire.

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Speaker 3: Oh Jamie, you know you're my partner in crime and

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Speaker 3: that you're the mastermind.

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Speaker 2: What are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: It's true?

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Speaker 2: What are you jeer?

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Speaker 1: Behind them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, behind all producers. Yes, the theme music was written

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Speaker 2: for us by someone who will not be named lest

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Speaker 2: unwoman get in trouble.

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Speaker 1: And it worked.

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Speaker 2: Thanks proud of that one. Today is part two of

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Speaker 2: a two parter, which is the first time that's ever happened,

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Speaker 2: not the ninety eighth time that's ever happened in part one. Okay,

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Speaker 2: this time we're talking about Negro for it, which was

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Speaker 2: a really amazing maroon community in Florida when it was

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Speaker 2: Spanish Florida that the US went and fucked up. In

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Speaker 2: part one, I talked about how a ton of indigenous

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Speaker 2: folks were real mad at the Americans. Right now I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about what had beens just stolen from them,

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Speaker 2: which is to say, I get to talk about everyone's

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Speaker 2: favorite person, Andrew Jackson. Yeah. If you ever meet someone

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Speaker 2: who thinks that Andrew Jackson is a good person, then

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Speaker 2: you have met a bad person, or at best, a

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Speaker 2: terribly badly informed person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say, don't waste your time trying to

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Speaker 3: fix them unless I.

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Speaker 1: Know, you know, you've only we've only got so much time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and if it's like your best friend, no,

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Speaker 2: if it's your dad, I don't know whatever. Andrew Jackson

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Speaker 2: before the War of eighteen twelve, no one really knew

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Speaker 2: him outside of Tennessee. He grew up a backwoods guy.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't actually poor. He later inherited two hundred acres,

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Speaker 2: but he grew up backwoods along the North and South

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Speaker 2: Carolina border shortly before the Revolutionary War, and he grew

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Speaker 2: up hating Indigenous people and British people. And this was

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Speaker 2: like his main thing, and like stop clock on the

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Speaker 2: British thing. But you know whatever. The Revolutionary War had

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Speaker 2: killed his mother, his only parent, and two of his brothers,

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Speaker 2: so he was really into hating the British. He also

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Speaker 2: hated Indigenous people because he was a racist piece of

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Speaker 2: shit dick. He quickly left the backwoods and became a

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Speaker 2: Southern gentleman, which of course meant buying and selling people.

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Speaker 2: Right come the War of eighteen twelve, he was like,

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Speaker 2: let's go kill the Brittain Indians, capture Florida wooo, and

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Speaker 2: that was that was his war crime. In eighteen thirteen,

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Speaker 2: the Muskogee had what was called the Creek Civil War

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Speaker 2: because they were mostly called the Creek. On one side,

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Speaker 2: you have the Americanized folks who were, you know, had

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Speaker 2: just been like they've been like doing the more settled thing.

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Speaker 2: They're starting to grow, build plantations, They're really into the

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Speaker 2: chattel slavery thing. On the other side, you had the

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Speaker 2: Red Sticks who were like, yeah, fuck all that, and

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Speaker 2: they would attack forts and kill everyone there except the

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Speaker 2: enslaved people who were freed who then joined them. So

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Speaker 2: Andrew Jackson just went just like went around and burned

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Speaker 2: down every Musgogie village that he could find.

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Speaker 1: Which like a like a gentleman would, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: People tend to conveniently forget that usually everyone on all

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Speaker 2: sides of any given war of colonization kills civilians every

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Speaker 2: single chance they can get. It's like a hard conversation

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Speaker 2: to have, so we all try to not have it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and all the history books that we get in

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Speaker 3: American public schools do not reflect it because it just

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Speaker 3: complicates things too much.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you pick one side to decide that they kill

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Speaker 2: civilians and the other side that is the way.

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Speaker 1: To civilian life, the ultimate complicating factor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But you know, I think that there's a

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Speaker 2: difference between colonial and anti colonial violence, and you know,

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Speaker 2: not to just whatever. Anyway, now I'm accidentally getting into

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Speaker 2: the modern shit. Most of the Red Sticks died in

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Speaker 2: battle against Jackson. They were out number two to one

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Speaker 2: at Horseshoe Bend in Alabama. Maybe all die so bravely. Basically,

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Speaker 2: Andrew Jackson was promoted to major general for massacring all

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Speaker 2: these people who outnumbered and then immediately got the Allied

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Speaker 2: Muscogee people to sign away twenty three million acres of

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Speaker 2: their territory, basically stole it from them. Basically, it was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: now you're just gonna give us all the shit because

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Speaker 2: we want it. Yeah, any idea how big twenty three

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Speaker 2: million acres is. It's like one of those numbers that's

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Speaker 2: a meaningless number. No, right, I can tell you it

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Speaker 2: was like a county, and I could tell you it

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Speaker 2: was like the Eastern seaboards.

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Speaker 1: Right at Florida.

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Speaker 2: It's about half modern floor.

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Speaker 1: Okay, twenty three million only half. I mean Florida's big though,

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big fucking state. You ever like drive

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Speaker 2: through Florida and you're like, this is no way. This

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Speaker 2: is going to feel like driving through Texas that takes years,

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Speaker 2: but then it does. No it especially be like driving

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Speaker 2: to Miami.

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Speaker 3: It's it's it's gigantic, and also like there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of I don't know, it's such a large state that

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Speaker 3: I think, like Texas, there's also like regional specificity that

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Speaker 3: gets kind of totally.

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Speaker 2: So everyone's mad, right, because he just took so much

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Speaker 2: fucking land. This terrible loss is why the Brits had

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Speaker 2: so much luck recruiting indigenous people in the area, because

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Speaker 2: even those who had been allied with the US had

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Speaker 2: just been fucked And so it was up to Andrew Jackson.

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Speaker 2: Everyone decided, probably including Andrew Jackson, that was up to

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Speaker 2: him to smash the pesky interracial Army, which to be clear,

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Speaker 2: absolutely was planning to go fuck up the US South

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Speaker 2: and free from American government. That was absolutely their goal. Nichols,

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Speaker 2: the Irishman, gave speeches about how they would quote unrivet

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Speaker 2: the chains of every person still held in slavery. So

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Speaker 2: they attacked the cool interracial army right their first at

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Speaker 2: the Colonial Marines or whatever I said their name, like

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Speaker 2: eight times. You think i'd remember the core of colonial Marines.

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Speaker 2: The first attack on Alabama did not go well for

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Speaker 2: the British, and grape shot took out Nichols right eye

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Speaker 2: and he'll never see out of it again. It will

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Speaker 2: not stop him from continuing to fight in battles where

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Speaker 2: he gets bayoneted and doesn't stop. So they were treated

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Speaker 2: and they got back to recruiting people. They were like, okay,

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Speaker 2: well we need more people, and so they helped more

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Speaker 2: and more people escape slavery. At least they end up

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Speaker 2: taking over Pensacola for a minute because it's not really

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Speaker 2: under American control e there, so it's sort of easy.

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Speaker 2: At least two thirds of Pensacola's and slave population was

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Speaker 2: recruited during this time, and all the slave owners would

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Speaker 2: like go and be like, come on, Britz, give us

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Speaker 2: back our people. And the Brits just laughed and we're like, nah,

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Speaker 2: we have guns and shit, you're gonna fuck off now. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So they're being cool. They're up to some cool stuff.

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Speaker 2: November eighteen fourteen, Andrew Jackson invaded Pensacola and outnumbered the

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Speaker 2: British Florida one. So the multiracial army fled and they

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Speaker 2: blew up their fortifications as they went and went back

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Speaker 2: to the British post, which is the fort that they

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Speaker 2: had built along the Apalogic Cola River. They grow there

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Speaker 2: to a force of about fifteen hundred as more and

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Speaker 2: more indigenous warriors show up. There's like numbers that go

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Speaker 2: all over the place, all the different like estimates where

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Speaker 2: they're like, oh, they got three thousand, they got fifteen hundred,

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Speaker 2: they got one thousand, there's three hundred of them. It's

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Speaker 2: like all over the fucking place, the numbers.

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Speaker 3: God, okay, And how many like different sources is it

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Speaker 3: coming from?

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Speaker 1: Is it just depends.

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Speaker 2: It just depends. A lot of it is that it

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Speaker 2: was very variable by time. And then also a lot

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Speaker 2: of history doesn't necessarily like stay perfectly linear in how

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Speaker 2: they describe these things. You know, I think that it's

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Speaker 2: like at its largest. Also, a lot of the sources,

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Speaker 2: like Americans kept exaggerating the size of this force because

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Speaker 2: they were like this is the this is armageddon, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so like there's like ones that are like there's

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Speaker 2: fifteen thousand of them, but that's like a pro slavery

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Speaker 2: American newspaper giving that number. For example, more and more

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Speaker 2: indigenous warriors starts showing up, and then they start paying

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Speaker 2: indigenous slave owners for the freedom of their slaves at

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Speaker 2: about a I want to say about thirty dollars ahead,

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Speaker 2: which is like way less than market rate. It's sort

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Speaker 2: of a like we'll pay you to free slaves, but

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Speaker 2: we won't pay like white people to free slaves in America.

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Speaker 2: Those were just going to go capture, you know. On

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Speaker 2: December twenty fourth, eighteen fourteen, the War of eighteen twelve

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Speaker 2: was officially over by the signing of the Treaty of Ghent,

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Speaker 2: but they didn't have cell phones, so the war raged

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Speaker 2: on until news came months and months later that it

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Speaker 2: had already ended in a draw because it didn't go

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Speaker 2: well for either side. Basically both sides just fucked each

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Speaker 2: other up.

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Speaker 3: And it also, yeah, it also didn't just go in

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Speaker 3: eighteen twelve. But that's that's that's the most that's the

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Speaker 3: saddest thing in the world to me.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's.

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Speaker 3: In like a casualty of war sense where you like,

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Speaker 3: if someone you loved was killed after the war had

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Speaker 3: been resolved, and you found that out later.

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Speaker 1: I simply don't know what I would do.

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Speaker 2: There's like World War One had that a lot, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's fucking it, is it? It would on either side

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Speaker 2: like that would kind of fuck me up, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because then it was like a like, for example, the

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Speaker 2: Americans are about to pull out their greatest victory in

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Speaker 2: the War of eighteen twelve, after the war is over,

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Speaker 2: the Battle of New Orleans, made famous by a song

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Speaker 2: that I don't remember who sings and don't listen too much.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: On January eighth, eighteen fifteen, British soldiers attacked New Orleans,

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Speaker 2: and Nichols's army was like, yeah, we're gonna lead. We

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Speaker 2: volunteer to like lead the landing. We're going to go

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Speaker 2: fuck these fucking slavers up. But they were told that

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Speaker 2: they couldn't join. They were basically too valuable to risk,

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Speaker 2: like they had, you know, the British and other military

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Speaker 2: plans for them. The Battle of New Orleans was like

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Speaker 2: not a huge deal from the British point of view,

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Speaker 2: and the British army got wrecked, like two thousand dead

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Speaker 2: to fourteen dead on the American side is what I read. God,

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Speaker 2: it's like enough that I'm like, that's fucked.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: That is because they tried to march through a swamp

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Speaker 2: at an entrenched position, and they were all so arrogant.

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Speaker 2: They were like, we are the most civilized and advanced army.

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Speaker 1: In the world.

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Speaker 2: Of course we're going to wreck this like Motley Force,

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Speaker 2: you know, right. And Andrew Jackson was in charge of

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Speaker 2: defending New Orleans. This is a big This is like

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Speaker 2: where is like fame like fucking comes from at the time.

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Speaker 2: Now he's mostly famous as a butcher. He did the

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Speaker 2: unthinkable when he defended New Orleans. He armed enslaved people.

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Speaker 2: He promised people their freedom if they fought for the Americans.

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Speaker 2: Then after the battle he did the thinkable, which was

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Speaker 2: he said not just fucking kidding, your fucking property, not

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Speaker 2: people giving back the guns.

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Speaker 3: Often joke that isn't the most Andrew Jackson thing in

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Speaker 3: the fucking world to do? Is yeah, yeah, promise advancement

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Speaker 3: to read nag on it later.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the most annoying things about reading the

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Speaker 2: nineteenth century like pro and anti slavery shit, is watching

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Speaker 2: all of the people on all sides argue about whether

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Speaker 2: or not black people would be any good in a fight,

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Speaker 2: and like people refer to Andrew Jackson as like practically

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Speaker 2: anti racist in that he like he was like he

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Speaker 2: respected that black people knew how to fight for whatever.

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Speaker 2: I hate him and I hate everything about him one man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't can't hand it to him for that.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely, exactly, absolutely not. And the fact that that

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Speaker 2: is a thing that is like constantly brought up, and

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Speaker 2: it is a thing that like even like a lot

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Speaker 2: of the British are doing during this point, they're like, whoa, Like,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know that you all were like not racially inferior,

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Speaker 2: you know, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's like we didn't know. We assumed that

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Speaker 3: you were not competent in like it's what a treat,

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Speaker 3: What a treat to be told that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So one man who was promised his freedom was

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Speaker 2: this guy named James Roberts. During the battle, he killed

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Speaker 2: six British soldiers in hand to hand combat, losing a

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Speaker 2: finger and taking a sword across the face and the process,

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Speaker 2: and he survived. After the battle, the Americans disarmed him,

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Speaker 2: stripped him, sent him to prison, and then sent him

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Speaker 2: to the plantation where he'd come from. He later said quote,

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Speaker 2: had there been less bravery with us, and he means

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Speaker 2: the armed enslaved people, the British would have gained the victory,

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Speaker 2: and in that event they would have set the slaves free.

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Speaker 2: So that I see now how we in that war

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Speaker 2: contributed to fasten our own chains tighter. What about fucking heartbreaking?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Like anyway, no, I mean no, yeah, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 3: I feel like it just speaks to the the helplessness

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Speaker 3: of the situation and just that they're like, are ultimately no,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, there's no good imperial.

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Speaker 1: Force to ally with. If he can believe it, in

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Speaker 1: this case, there's a better one.

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Speaker 2: Everyone who fought for the British not only were they freed,

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Speaker 2: but so were their families. Oh wow, Okay, and Andrew

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Speaker 2: Jackson after they like after the folks who fight and

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Speaker 2: then they flee whatever, Andrew Jackson figures that he can

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Speaker 2: now show up. He's like, he just crushed the British, right,

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Speaker 2: So he's like, I'm just gonna show up and be like, yo,

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Speaker 2: give us back our property. And the British were like,

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Speaker 2: now we're good, and once again all the like slave

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Speaker 2: owners go and they're like they're like, same deal as

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Speaker 2: always you can come and not by force ask people

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Speaker 2: to return to you. And so all these like slave

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Speaker 2: owners like showed up and we're like, oh, of course

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Speaker 2: they're going to come back. We're gonna like ask nicely. Right.

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Speaker 2: A few people in this case did end up going back. Basically,

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Speaker 2: I think that they thought that they might get abandoned

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Speaker 2: and killed, and they just were looking to their options.

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Speaker 2: Almost everyone was like, no chance in fucking hell will

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Speaker 2: we do that. One newly freed wagon driver told us

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Speaker 2: form master, you may carry my head along with you,

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Speaker 2: but as to my body, it will remain here, like

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Speaker 2: it's just the time of metal quotes.

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Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, I was like, there's really some bangers in

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Speaker 1: this story, like one after the other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And they still don't know the war's over. So

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Speaker 2: Nichol's army is now thirty five hundred strong and they

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Speaker 2: get ready to invade and they're gonna just fucking go

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Speaker 2: fuck up the American South.

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Speaker 1: The war's over.

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Speaker 2: But they're like, let they don't know what s goo. Girls, Well,

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Speaker 2: they don't know it, right, right, right?

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Speaker 3: Do we know how exactly how long after this is,

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Speaker 3: we're still only like a month or so later.

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Speaker 2: I don't remember the well, okay, So, like the treaty

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Speaker 2: was signed, Battle of New Orleans is January eighth, and

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Speaker 2: so then like pretty immediately afterwards, right, it's like a

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Speaker 2: week or two later or something. They're like, we're getting

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Speaker 2: ready to go do this thing, but then news of

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Speaker 2: the truth comes before they get chance to do it.

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Speaker 2: And so Nichols's army basically it's like never really put

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Speaker 2: to the test. And you know, so then Spain's like,

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Speaker 2: all right, great, the war's over. Can we have our

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Speaker 2: enslaved people back? And Nichols was like nah. And then

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Speaker 2: and Spade was like, but there's no legal basis for that,

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Speaker 2: and Nicholas is like, I don't really care, nick, Nick. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was hilarious because the deal was that under the

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Speaker 2: Spanish territorial law it was okay for slaves escaping the

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Speaker 2: US to be freed, but not Spanish slaves, like anyone

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Speaker 2: escaping a Spanish owner.

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Speaker 1: Right, okay.

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Speaker 2: And so there's all these slaves with Hispanic last names

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Speaker 2: who only spoke Spanish, and Nichols is like, nah, that

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Speaker 2: guy's American, you know, and they'd be like, no, I

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Speaker 2: swear that that's our guy. Nicholas just be like no,

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Speaker 2: it's not you got Oh also I have a lot

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Speaker 2: of guns.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, gigantic bluff. I love it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. In the end, Nichols presented each person who had

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Speaker 2: fought or was there a certificate of freedom, saying that

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Speaker 2: their service in the military meant that they were free,

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Speaker 2: and that the basically that the Spanish delegates could eat it.

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Speaker 2: The Spanish delegates are like there when he's passing out

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Speaker 2: these certificates.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 2: And he also gave the soldiers all of their wages

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Speaker 2: for the entire time, which is the whole thing. And

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Speaker 2: like even the Army of the North and during the

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Speaker 2: Civil War like decades later, was like real bad at

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Speaker 2: paying black soldiers, you know. So he's like, here's all

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Speaker 2: your money. You can keep the uniform and you are

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Speaker 2: officially discharged from service because the war is over. And

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Speaker 2: these certificates that he gave them kept a bunch of

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Speaker 2: people free down the line because there's like all this

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Speaker 2: shit where like because Nichols rules in Britain sucks, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so like later a lot of these freed people

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Speaker 2: like go to other British colonies and people are like, no,

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Speaker 2: you're not free, and they have to be like, ah,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to take it to court and I have

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Speaker 2: this document and shit, you know, so he made a

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Speaker 2: fucking paper trail. He based it on nothing. He based

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Speaker 2: it on I want these people to be free. Here's

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Speaker 2: a document.

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Speaker 1: God, that fucking rocks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally another A win for the Irish, a win

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Speaker 3: for fighting Nichols. Yeah, just having an army, a bunch

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Speaker 3: of guns and a big old lie and actually being

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Speaker 3: on the right side of history. And the war ended

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Speaker 3: a month ago.

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Speaker 1: Secretly, great, great, great, great great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And so he tried one less thing, but the

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Speaker 2: British government didn't go for it. Basically, he was like,

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Speaker 2: we will absolutely keep this war going if you don't

364
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Speaker 2: give the Muscogee back the land that Andrew Jackson stole,

365
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Speaker 2: those twenty three million acres, we will absolutely go to

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Speaker 2: war for it. And then Britain was like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: not so much. We're not going to do that. But

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Speaker 2: they did stand by the emancipation of five thousand enslaved

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Speaker 2: people who had escaped to British territory. In April eighteen fifteen,

370
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Speaker 2: Nichols and the rest of the white British unit left.

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Speaker 2: They this gets like a little blurry. They had this

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Speaker 2: intention to return in six months or maybe a year,

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Speaker 2: and maybe it was to like help transport everyone away.

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Speaker 2: But then other people were like, no, he was never

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Speaker 2: planning on coming back, and people like chose to stay

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Speaker 2: there because they wanted to just live there and keep

377
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Speaker 2: the fort and shit. And the reason I want I

378
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Speaker 2: want to like Nichols. And two the other reason I

379
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Speaker 2: kind of trust him about this. He leaves this fort

380
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Speaker 2: intact fully armed with hundreds of guns, like eight cannon

381
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Speaker 2: powder keg after powder keg, like this is a fully

382
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Speaker 2: he doesn't take any of the food like he as

383
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Speaker 2: far as I can tell, he just right by the people.

384
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Speaker 2: The one thing he fucked up is he left a

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Speaker 2: white guy in charge. Oh he's gonna fuck off soon,

386
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Speaker 2: don't worry, Okay.

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Speaker 3: I mean I just based on what you just I'm

388
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Speaker 3: tempted to want to give a good faith reading of

389
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Speaker 3: that because other than just like fucking off in the

390
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Speaker 3: middle of the night and like, you know, completely like

391
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Speaker 3: it sounds like there was the intent of some longevity there.

392
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And when he leaves, it transports a ton of

393
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Speaker 2: the formally enslaved people with them when they leave, but

394
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Speaker 2: a lot of people stick around, but they leave this

395
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Speaker 2: white guy named Hambly around and they're like, all right,

396
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Speaker 2: this guy's in charge. And he was like he had

397
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Speaker 2: been he was local to the area, and he had

398
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Speaker 2: been like an important part of a lot of the

399
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 2: conversations with indigenous leaders and stuff, and he had worked

400
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: for the trading post that was what used to be

401
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,960
Speaker 2: there before the fort. So Nichols leaves. He goes on

402
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 2: to continue his life, to go fuck up slave ships

403
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: in Atlantic. A bunch of black soldiers leave with him,

404
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Speaker 2: and they go off to live in Bermuda and shit.

405
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Speaker 2: About three hundred black families remain at the fort, which

406
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Speaker 2: is fully stocked and armed by the British. Before their departure,

407
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 2: bish post becomes Negro Negro Fort, and the Spanish authorities

408
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 2: couldn't do shit about it because it was fully stocked

409
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Speaker 2: and armed fort. So what the fuck are they going

410
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Speaker 2: to do about it? Because one thing that history teaches

411
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 2: you is that often the law doesn't matter if you

412
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Speaker 2: have enough guns.

413
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Speaker 1: And this can go a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, it goes bad and good, yes, constantly, yeah, yes,

415
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Speaker 2: but generally true. Yeah, some of the black families and

416
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Speaker 2: soldiers they actually had come with the British in the

417
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Speaker 2: first place from Virginia or the Caribbean and decided to

418
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Speaker 2: stick around because they were like, actually, if we stay here,

419
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Speaker 2: there's this amazing community of resistance that's being built. It's

420
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Speaker 2: basically like being built as a maroon community right away.

421
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Speaker 2: And so a bunch of people who came from elsewhere,

422
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Speaker 2: who were just British soldiers were like, nas where we're

423
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: not gonna be. Yeah, Indigenous fighters stuck around as well,

424
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Speaker 2: or they lived in the area immediately around it. But

425
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Speaker 2: one thing that they didn't have that you and I

426
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 2: have is access to Actually, I'm sure there were ads.

427
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,479
Speaker 2: There are probably a ton of ads, but our ads

428
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: are more developed, but not.

429
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Speaker 3: With the weird little music beds that not the little

430
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 3: beet boop beat boops that you get on a podcast ad.

431
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 3: There's a unique kind of gorgeous, annoying musical cadence to

432
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 3: a podcast add there really is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and here they are and we're back. So how

434
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Speaker 2: do you think that America took the fact that when

435
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Speaker 2: the British left, they left a armed maroon community in

436
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Speaker 2: a fort that was incredibly defensible.

437
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 3: Oh, I think in the way America always takes things calmly,

438
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 3: reasonably and wanting to be include and extend that American

439
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: dream to everybody.

440
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 1: Is that correct?

441
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 2: Yes, it's close, and they were you know, they probably

442
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: were like, well, that's not America. Why is it any

443
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: of our business? Mm hmm. But unfortunately everything is America's business.

444
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 2: Jamie loftus and the existence of the sport scared the

445
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: shit out of white people, just fucking kept people up

446
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: at night. This was going to destroy everything they loved

447
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 2: about America. There's newspapers all over the country screaming and

448
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 2: yelling about this happening. Those black people, who weren't even

449
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 2: in the fuck United States, fucking United States, were like

450
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: coming for baseball and apple pie and by that I

451
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 2: mean chattel slavery only. Okay, it be clear. It would

452
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: be entirely fine if they I would love them if

453
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: they were off to go do that. They weren't. The

454
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 2: war was over. They were not planning some great raid

455
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: on the US. They were just trying to fucking live free.

456
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 2: Quote the author Matthew C. Clayven from the best book

457
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: about this that I'm aware of the Battle of negro Fort.

458
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: Quote negro Fort's denizens were not slave revolutionaries out to

459
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: destroy the nefarious institution that sought to keep them in bondage.

460
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: Nor were they determined to restore or recreate a traditional

461
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 2: way of life recalled from their youth or inherited from

462
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: their African ancestors. Instead, like other Maroons who struggled to

463
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 2: survive in the Southern United States or adjacent territories, their

464
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: actions show that self determination, self reliance, and self rule

465
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: were their key objectives, and so they were just trying

466
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: to fucking live.

467
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was like, that's a long way of saying,

468
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 3: just living with dignity and independence.

469
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

470
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 2: That white guy Hambley, he was a chicken shit loser.

471
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 2: He ran off right away and he went to the

472
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: US and he was like, please destroy that place. I'll

473
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: help you negotiate with indigenous leaders to attack it.

474
00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay, leader real flame out. Okay, you'll flame

475
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 3: that use it. Yeah, he will know he had millennial burnout.

476
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 2: Margaret, right, totally. That's what I mean.

477
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: You have burnout at work.

478
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think that they had, Like, like,

479
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: I don't know the names of generations before the greatest generation.

480
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: You know, it's like greatest old boomers, young boomers, which

481
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 2: is a millennial silent?

482
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: Is it silent before greatest.

483
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah is the greatest, and then silent. But but

484
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 2: what the fuck did they call?

485
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 3: Oh?

486
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: I hate asking questions like this because people are going

487
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: to answer me, and the when people answer me correctly,

488
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 2: it's interesting. And when people just a year from now

489
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 2: listen to this and then message me with no context,

490
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: I'll have no idea.

491
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,720
Speaker 3: They're like Margaret, Margaret Pep. Generally it was the Pep generation. Yeah, cool,

492
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 3: I that is all. That is Like one of the

493
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: beautiful parts of parasociality is someone answering a question you

494
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 3: asked six years ago, yeah, and being presented as urgent

495
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 3: or I don't know, just like stuff like, hey, do

496
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 3: you remember when you said this in twenty eighteen. I'm like, guaranteed, no,

497
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: let's assume I was wrong.

498
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: I don't know.

499
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't remember by the time you're

500
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 2: hearing this, even if you listen when it first came out,

501
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna remember make this sentence. I only remember

502
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 2: about the four Yeah. The weird side conversations not part

503
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 2: of my memory, nor should it be. Yeah, anyway, before

504
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: we talk shit on the people who are listen to

505
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: our s eh okay.

506
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, no, it's just an interesting it's an

507
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: interesting and like usually.

508
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: Funny side effect of the job.

509
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I do it to like I do it

510
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: to Jamie. I listened to something Jamie did, Like I

511
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 2: do it to Robert. I do it to Yeah, I

512
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: do it to cool Zone media. People like it. It

513
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: is a human instinct to be like, I know a

514
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 2: thing about that. Like Robert Evans said, the people listen

515
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: to the view Nation are old. I'm sure Robert Evans

516
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: doesn't remember saying that, But when I listen to the

517
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 2: v Nation in my basement when I'm working out, I think, yeah, no,

518
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 2: I'm kind of old. This is a really interesting aside.

519
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: People are very glad we did it.

520
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 3: I love Yeah, I love talking to five year old

521
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: MP three files.

522
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: It's my passion.

523
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, so negro Fort Sadly, the whole point

524
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: of this episode is about how cool this place was

525
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: the reason that we didn't get to it until now

526
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 2: is because we don't know that much about it. We

527
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: know a lot about what happened when there were white

528
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: people around, and we know very little when they weren't.

529
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 2: It was fucking cool. We know that Nichols is great,

530
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: but it's annoying that he gets all the screen time

531
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: and we know more about him. We know that Maroon

532
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: communities require security culture order to stay alive, and that's

533
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: part of why we know so little about Maroon communities.

534
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: We also know that in this community there were Spanish speaking,

535
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: French speaking, English speaking, and people born in Africa all

536
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: living there side by side. And we know that's because

537
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: mostly of their names, Like one person would be like

538
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: Congo Tom because he was born in Africa, and another

539
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: person will have like a French.

540
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: Name or whatever, right m.

541
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: And we actually know a lot about like because they're

542
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: fucking listed as property. We know a lot of their names,

543
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: and we know a lot of their job descriptions, you know,

544
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: because people are like reporting their missing property. We also

545
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: know that they had eight cannons and that's part of

546
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 2: why they managed to fucking stay missing property, which fucking rules. Yeah,

547
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 2: they were skilled artisans. They had eight cannons, a howitzer

548
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: which is like halfway between a cannon and a mortar,

549
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: so it's like not quite as long distance or whatever.

550
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: And they had hundreds of muskets.

551
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

552
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw howitzer was just a brand name of

553
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 2: a gun. And then I started reading.

554
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean think xerox or a Zamboni situation.

555
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay, it's his own thing.

556
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,479
Speaker 2: It might be Oh god, I've talked about a military Okay. Anyway,

557
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: we know that they started off with food stores, but

558
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: soon they were growing their own and they seemed to

559
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: live lives of plenty. They herded cattle in the swampy forest.

560
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: They grew corn and melons, and they cultivated land. They

561
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 2: set up like several they're described as plantations, but that

562
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: just means like how they plant things, not how it

563
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: was structured. They hunted turkey and alligator and deer, and

564
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: they fished. They traded extensively with their indigenous allies in

565
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: the surrounding area. New fugitives arrived every day. They just

566
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: kept growing, and they were all considered bandits. And to

567
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: be clear, I think they did some piracy they like

568
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: built boats and shit, but mostly they were bandits because

569
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: they had stolen valuable property. Do you want to guess

570
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: what the valuable property they stole was. No, it's themselves. No,

571
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: that's what makes them bandits. They are bandits because they

572
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 2: stole property.

573
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: I think their own human bodies.

574
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: Yes, they stole from slave owners and for once they

575
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: are black lead. We know about three of the commanders.

576
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: There's Cyrus, there's Prince, who was actually a lieutenant in

577
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: the Colonial Marines. And the most famous of the three, Garson,

578
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 2: was a thirty six year old carpenter who'd been a

579
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: sergeant major. Why was he the most famous because his

580
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: name was French.

581
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I was about to say, because he

582
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: had a cute little name.

583
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: And that was the reason.

584
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: It is the reason, because this the single scariest thing

585
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: that has happened to white Southerners and human history was

586
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: the Haitian Revolution.

587
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: Okay.

588
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: And during the Haitian Revolution, which had only ended, it

589
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: ended in eighteen oh four, and you know, so not

590
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: that long before this, black and slave people rose up

591
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: and freed themselves. And the guy who had led that,

592
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: to Saint Luvatour, whose French name I am not good

593
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 2: at French, was a black guy with a French name.

594
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: So here's Garson, He's French and black. The end is nigh,

595
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 2: god like, all over the papers, all over the papers,

596
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 2: they're like the Haitian Revolution's coming. Which, don't get me wrong,

597
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: there were many people trying to make the Haitian Revolution

598
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: come to North America for sure.

599
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: But I'm just at every turn, just a nation of

600
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: fucking weird babies.

601
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 2: It's just absolutely and who will save this nation of

602
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: weird babies? But a hero, a hero will merge. Mm hmmm,

603
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: it's Andrew Jackson.

604
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: Again. I had a feeling it was Andrew Jackson.

605
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

606
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: I mean, if anyone was well equipped to capture the

607
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: mind of violent babies, I suppose it was Andrew Jackson.

608
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: Yep. Which is an awkward place to start an ad pivot,

609
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: but that's where it is. It's right here, right now.

610
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 2: Here's an ad pivot, and.

611
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: We're back, and we pivoted right on back. It feels

612
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: I think that would perfectly.

613
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely good my job. So basically, Andrew Jackson was like,

614
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: dear mister the President, can I invade a sovereign country

615
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: to put down a ford in their territory because I

616
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: think that they make Basically, it was like the existence

617
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 2: of this place will incite people to flee, right, Okay,

618
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: that was like their main argument, which is true, the

619
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: existence of that place incited people to flee, which is good,

620
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: just not he presents it as bad because he's a

621
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: backwards man who walks backwards and talks. It's opposite day

622
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: for him, every day exactly. Yeah, he's the opposite moratl

623
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: guy yea. And so he writes, dear mister President, can

624
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: I invade the sovereign country to put down a fort

625
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 2: in their territory? And the President's like, oh, I don't

626
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: know when he's like thinking about it. And then Andrew

627
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 2: Jackson's like, you know what, I'm not waiting for a response.

628
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: I don't care.

629
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 2: Wow, And just in classic white supremacist for him, he's like,

630
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: fuck the law, I do things my way.

631
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

632
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 3: No, he's he's a classic example of uh asked, you know,

633
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 3: apologizing instead of asking for permission.

634
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And he also did the same thing to

635
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 2: the Spanish. He wrote and was like, if you all

636
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 2: don't take down that place, I will. But before the

637
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: Spanish have a chance to think about it, America is

638
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: already on its way to a legally cross into Spain

639
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 2: and fuck it, thinks up, it's time to go burn

640
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: indigenous villages, including our recent allies, blow up the fort

641
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: all in someone else's country. It is entirely illegal, even

642
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: by US standards. That has never stopped anyone with power,

643
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: let alone Andrew Jackson. But Andrew Jackson didn't lead it himself.

644
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 2: He just illegally authorized his subordinate general Gains to do

645
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: it for him, because Jackson wanted to be president and

646
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 2: so he wanted to do some plausible deniability shit where

647
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: what he said was go take care of it however

648
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 2: you think is best. But we we have his correspondence

649
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: where he's openly like and by that I mean like

650
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 2: he'll everyone and blow shit up and get back all

651
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: this enslaved people and shit, I don't care through Violet.

652
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 3: I feel like that there is just like a kind

653
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 3: of commonly held like presidents were not caught saying openly inflammatory,

654
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 3: violent shit before Watergate, and you're like, no, they've been

655
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 3: doing it.

656
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is absolutely gonna end up president at the

657
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: end of this story.

658
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

659
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 3: And there's and then the paper trail collectively everyone decided

660
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 3: didn't matter.

661
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, that's for historians.

662
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

663
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 2: So Gaines's plan was simple. He was going to hire

664
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 2: the local indigenous people to do all the fighting and

665
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: dying by promising them fifty dollars ahead for recaptured slaves,

666
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: which is about four times the going rate, and also

667
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 2: that they could loot the place of anything but cannons,

668
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 2: and they could also keep any people who for whom

669
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: owners couldn't be found. They would be supported by some

670
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 2: US gunboats, and at least the book Battle of Negro

671
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: Fort represents it as the first ever large scale slave

672
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 2: hunting expedition by the US. The first battle of it

673
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 2: went really badly for the US, which is fun. A

674
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: small boat of white soldiers like went up the river

675
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: looking for fresh water, and they were ambushed by twenty

676
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: black and twenty indigenous fighters, each under their own commander.

677
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 2: Garsan was leading the black forces and an unknown unnamed

678
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 2: chief to let the indigenous fighters, and they killed some

679
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: of the white people and they drove the rest off

680
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: somewhere along the way. Aware of the coming attack, hundreds

681
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 2: of maroons and fugitives slipped out of the fort, while

682
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: a few hundreds stayed behind to defend it. The fugitives

683
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: took refuge in various indigenous communities, especially among the Seminole.

684
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 2: We'll talk a little bit more about soon. The fort

685
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: was besieged indigenous warriors of the I mean it's literally

686
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: Musgogi fighters on both sides of this. So it's just

687
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: like the indigenous warriors in the woods were shooting at

688
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: the fort while the white people hid in boats behind

689
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: the bluff. Their stated plan was to stay out of

690
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: it so that no white people got hurt. And this

691
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: lasted six days, this siege, and there were sorties fought

692
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: between the two forces that forced the soldiers of negro

693
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: Fort back behind their walls. And about half of the

694
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 2: soldiers in negro Fort are black and the other half

695
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 2: were indigenous. They flew the union jack and above it

696
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 2: they flew a solid red flag, which was a flag

697
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: that meant they would offer no quarter and not accept

698
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: any quarter. They were all going to fight to the

699
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 2: death rather than go back into trains. Once again, very metal.

700
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: A very yeah. There nothing if not consistently metal. Yeah.

701
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 2: The battle ended quickly. I spent the episode talking about

702
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 2: metaphorical powder kegs, but this one's not metaphorical. At the

703
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,319
Speaker 2: center of the fort was this massive stone edifice named

704
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,879
Speaker 2: the Citadel that stored all the powder for all those

705
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: cannons and muskets. One of the besieging gunboats was doing

706
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 2: something called hot shot, where they would put the cannonballs

707
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: in like a furnace, like a makeshift furnace that they

708
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: built on the boat before shooting them out of the cannons.

709
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: One cannon ball found its way into the citadel. The

710
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: resulting explosion was heard for miles in every direction, and

711
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: almost every defender died in the blast. About two hundred

712
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 2: and fifty people died in About fifty people survived, most

713
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: of whom later succumbed to their wounds. Okay Garson and

714
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 2: an unnamed Choctaw war chief survived the blast. They were captured.

715
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 2: They immediately and proudly took credit for killing the American soldiers,

716
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: and they were scalped and shot. Almost none of the

717
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: Maroons were returned to slavery. Almost every single one of

718
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 2: them died free, which was their plan. Wow, And like

719
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: I feel like that doesn't like it gets talked about

720
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: like this great loss and it was right, Like they

721
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: didn't win, but they were really clear about their intentions.

722
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: And they also provided enough time for way more people

723
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 2: who stayed to get out and get away, you know.

724
00:39:55,160 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and I think that there should and

725
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 3: often is has to be some area for well, what

726
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 3: does winning versus losing look like in a situation like this?

727
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: And I think that, yeah, like characterizing it as a

728
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: total loss would would not be true because you know,

729
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 3: dilied free.

730
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. In the end, like I think maybe two people

731
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 2: were returned to slavery successfully. During all of this, the

732
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 2: refugees from negro Fort went deeper into the wilderness and

733
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: they formed two communities. There was a black one called

734
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 2: Nero's Town, which had a leader named Nero, and an

735
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 2: indigenous one called bow Leg's Town, which had a leader

736
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 2: named bow Leg.

737
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: Okay, I was waiting for a twist.

738
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no twist. More fugitives began to join them.

739
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: So the Maroon community continues and the two communities, they're

740
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 2: like military societies and including at like negro Fort was

741
00:40:55,719 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: like a military institution. It considered itself British military unit

742
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 2: and so like it was like it gets presented as

743
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 2: a military dictatorship or whatever. I'm like, yeah, it was.

744
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 2: It was a military society. You know that it was

745
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 2: around in the middle of basically an active war. I'm

746
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 2: not fucking coming at them for their authoritarianism, you know. Yeah,

747
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: And Nero's Town in bow Legs Town are presented in

748
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: very similar ways where they were still a lot of

749
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: them are still wearing uniforms. A lot of them are like, no,

750
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: this is just where we're continuing the fight in ok

751
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: and Nero's town. Nero was a black man who had

752
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: himself run away from slavery twenty plus years earlier to

753
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 2: live with the seminole before showing up to negro Fort,

754
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,439
Speaker 2: and in Nero's town, they would dance the Red Stick dance,

755
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: which was a way like part of the culture of

756
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: the Red Sticks, so they consider themselves part of the

757
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: Red Sticks. Shortly after the destruction of negro Fort, hundreds

758
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: of Seminal Warriors and Red Sticks captured that asshole Hambly,

759
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: you know, the like the dude who had fucking been

760
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 2: left in charge.

761
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: Wow, they found.

762
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: The flop, which is like the most movie part of it, right,

763
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 2: he'd be like the Disney villain who like you know,

764
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: runs away and like gets but yeah he gets.

765
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: I'm so glad he got gotten. That's thrilling.

766
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: And then so Seminal Warriors capture him, transport him and

767
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 2: some other folks who were responsible for the destruction one

768
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty miles to Nero's town, and there were

769
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: sentenced to torture by a tribunal, with the implication being

770
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: tortured at death. But Nero intervened for some unknown reason

771
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: and had them transported in turnover to Spanish authorities. I'd

772
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: be so I'd be so pissed if I was one

773
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: of the people who had just transported this guy one

774
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty miles, you know.

775
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, with with the sweet promise.

776
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, not to be like, actually we've decided to

777
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: go to a different direction.

778
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 1: Fuck you, Yeah, we got this far. Yeah yeah.

779
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 3: Well I still think that's I mean, that is yeah,

780
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 3: that is a movie style return.

781
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: I thought I thought.

782
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 3: That he he got off scott free.

783
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, and did not get off Scott free.

784
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: Excellent, great news.

785
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,879
Speaker 2: And then in the US, basically weird, annoying political machinations

786
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 2: of cover up started immediately because what they had done

787
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 2: was flagrantly illegal. Right. The other thing that started right

788
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 2: away was the hunt for all the fugitives who'd escaped,

789
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 2: which was basically another illegal intrusion into Spanish Florida by

790
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: Andrew Jackson, this time him personally, and they went around

791
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 2: in massacred places. They massacred Nero's town at least I

792
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: don't know about bow Legstown. Jackson personally enslaved a black

793
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: fighter who still wore his red coat.

794
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: Jesus an inexhaustibly evil person.

795
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 2: I know, just fucking terminators style, like more than four

796
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: Even after this, more than four hundred and thirty negro

797
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: Fort refugees continued to live in Florida free, mostly with

798
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 2: the Seminoles. The Seminoles didn't take kindly. All this massacring happening,

799
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: and you get the first Seminole War, which is a

800
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:21,760
Speaker 2: story for another week, but the shortish versions of it. Eventually,

801
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: the Seminole War led Spain to be like, fine, fuck it,

802
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 2: take Florida. We kind of hate it anyhow, and the

803
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 2: US got one of its most cursed states. The Seminoles

804
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 2: went so hard that there's more than one Seminole War

805
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: in which negro Fort veterans fought and got to see

806
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: some revenge on the empire that enslaved them. Like literally

807
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: the fifteen twenty year later wore some of the same

808
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: veterans were like, Yeah, we're going to go fuck up

809
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 2: some fucking like colonial Americans. Absolutely, mm hmm.

810
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: God, I would love to hear a cool people on

811
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 1: the Seminole wars.

812
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: That is, it's absolutely in the plans. I've been. Yeah,

813
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 2: I've like done some of the research into it. It's

814
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: going to get into some messy and interesting shit and

815
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:09,280
Speaker 2: some like yeah wild escapades. In eighteen twenty nine, famed

816
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: racist crusader Andrew Jackson became the seventeenth President of the

817
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 2: United States and the first Democratic president back when Democrat

818
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 2: meant the pro slavery guys. He signed the Indian Removal

819
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 2: Act and was just like one of the worst people

820
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 2: ever born. The Seminal Wars were Indian wars, but they

821
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 2: were also wars over slavery. The North was like, what

822
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: the fuck are we doing? And the abolitionist movement adopted

823
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: negro Fort as a symbol and the US attack on

824
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: it as evidence of the US being won't referred. They

825
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: started referring to the US accurately enough as a slaveocracy,

826
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 2: like ruled by slavers, and their evidence was the US

827
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: keeps doing shit for slavers. That has nothing to do

828
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: with our economic interest nothing to do with our military interests.

829
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 2: It's just for slavery, right. Negro Fort was on John

830
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 2: Brown's tongue when he declared need for a violent liberation

831
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 2: of enslaved people and wrote a long piece about it.

832
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 2: Three months after he wrote that he led his assault

833
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 2: on Harper's Ferry. That as we've talked about before, was

834
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 2: at least a crucial domino, if not the spark itself

835
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 2: that started the Civil War and ended legal chattel slavery

836
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 2: in the United States. So here's to Garson and the

837
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 2: hundreds of other unnamed Indigenous and Black people who lived free,

838
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: died free, and helped spark one of the greatest movements

839
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: for human liberty and history against one of the most

840
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 2: vile empires that has ever existed on this earth.

841
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 3: That is so, I mean, it stands straight, but it's

842
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 3: really cool to hear that that Negro for it became

843
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 3: such a huge.

844
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: Inspiration for the movement moving forward, and.

845
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 3: Also makes it, I mean all the more frustrating that

846
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,800
Speaker 3: it is not taught oh yeah to anyway. But I

847
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 3: feel like any any armed resistance is especially by indigenous

848
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 3: or black people of the US, is just not no, not.

849
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: We don't talk.

850
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: About it, absolutely not, and especially yeah, I don't like

851
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: telling stories where the British are the good guys, right like,

852
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 2: and so I think that's even part of it too.

853
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it's mostly this. We didn't talk about violent resistance,

854
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: especially any violent resistance that could be justified. You know,

855
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 2: we're always like, h sure, the evil, savage people being whatever,

856
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: you know, but right, yeah, no, it was a completely

857
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 2: justified thing that even in the and then the other

858
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: thing is that people are like, oh, we're so smart now,

859
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: and in the nineteenth century they're all idiots, and I'm like, no,

860
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 2: in the eighteen thirties and forties, people were like, wait,

861
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 2: what we did? What are you fucking kidding me?

862
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,760
Speaker 1: Well, then, and then the inevitability.

863
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: Of of everyone involved acting so heroically and genuinely having

864
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 3: a net win not only in a number of people

865
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: living and dying free, but in inspiring them, inspiring further action.

866
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 3: And contrasting that with and Andrew Jackson becomes president anyways,

867
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 3: and I know, you know, never sees a consequence in

868
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 3: his entire fucking life and just accruse more and more

869
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: and more power.

870
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

871
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: And it's funny too, Like if you read about Andrew

872
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 2: Jackson's legacy, it's like Andrew Jackson was incredibly popular, and

873
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 2: then it's like, by the second half of the twentieth

874
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: century some people were starting to think he was not

875
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 2: a good person, you know that.

876
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 4: Two hundred years yeah, Like, but and also at the

877
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 4: same time, it's like people are like, oh, product of

878
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 4: their time, and it's like one Andrew Jackson was worse

879
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 4: than everyone and everyone knew it.

880
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 2: He was.

881
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: He was the worst guy then.

882
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he was more racist than the racist founding fathers,

883
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: you know. And like also everyone at the time was

884
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: like fuck that. Not everyone, most people liked him, but

885
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 2: a ton of people were like fuck this guy. Well,

886
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 2: and again also I hate and we're like, oh, all

887
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: white all people in the nineteenth century were racist, and

888
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 2: you're like, do you mean all white people?

889
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 4: Like?

890
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: Right?

891
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 2: Anyway, that's the story.

892
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: That's this, that's the story. Wow, thank you so much

893
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: for uh for telling me.

894
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 3: I truly knew, I mean, and I knew a little

895
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 3: bit about this, about.

896
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: The Seminole Wars, but I did not know, uh what

897
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: preceded it. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thank you.

898
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 3: I hope that I really, I mean, not that I have,

899
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 3: you know, much hope in this way, but I hope

900
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 3: that that this is like.

901
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: Talked about more. It's really starting and still could and

902
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:40,399
Speaker 1: should be inspiring. Now.

903
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well what else should be talked about now

904
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: is your plugs?

905
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 3: Yay, yay, Okay, you can uh, I uh just began

906
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 3: producing a relaunch of Do You Wonder Show? We The

907
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: End Housed, hosted by Theo Henderson on iHeartRadio. It is

908
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 3: a show about the unhoused experience from an unhoused lens.

909
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 3: We have episodes that release every other Tuesday, and we

910
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 3: just relaunched, So get in on the ground floor of

911
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 3: the show. And there's also a great backlog. And yeah,

912
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 3: it's holiday times. You should get my book Raw Dog.

913
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 3: It's about hot dogs and also about the evils of capitalism.

914
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 3: So if you're a fan of this show and not

915
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 3: a fan of hot dogs, there's still something for you

916
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 3: in it.

917
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 2: I secretly love all of the reviews of people who

918
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:44,479
Speaker 2: got really upset when they thought it was just gonna

919
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 2: be about hot dogs, but didn't realize that the manufacture

920
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,240
Speaker 2: of a commodity ties in the economic system that creates

921
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 2: it and might be critical of that economic system.

922
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: Or that I would want to even mention manufacturing. They're like,

923
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 3: what the heck? This was supposed to be about the

924
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 3: one my dad makes? Yeah, why is it just about mustard?

925
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,439
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, although I'm sure that if I had had

926
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: more real.

927
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 3: Estate page wise, we could have we could have found

928
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 3: a mustard bastard easily.

929
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I'm just imagining a sort of a cartoon,

930
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: not a cartoon character, like a mascot, a villain with

931
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 2: a in a mustard suit.

932
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 3: I don't know why a torly mustache peeking out of

933
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 3: a mustard suit.

934
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, I'm like, I'm gonna go eat dumplanes and

935
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 2: I'm like, I wonder if i can put mustard on them.

936
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna stick with soy sauce. But okay,

937
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: I'm clearly distracted by the fact that I'm hungry.

938
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 4: Uh.

939
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 2: You can follow me on Instagram. My Instagram is at

940
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 2: Margaret Kiljoy. You can follow me on substack. My substack

941
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,879
Speaker 2: is you Google Margaret Kiljoy substack. I don't know anyone

942
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 2: who actually types in any URL in that particular situation.

943
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 2: I post new essays every week. Half of them are public,

944
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: half of them are private. If you want to know

945
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 2: more about my hikes with my dog, then you have

946
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: to be a paid subscriber. If you want to know

947
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: more about the stuff. That's actually the kind of thing

948
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 2: I want to say to the broader world. You don't

949
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: have to be a paid subscriber. It's free. That's the

950
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 2: point of it. It's like the opposite of freemium, like

951
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 2: and Also, you can listen to other cool Zone Media podcasts.

952
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: You can listen to Hood Politics with prop which is

953
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: amazing and has been what I listened to while cooking recently,

954
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 2: and also burning track. I would never burn trash. I

955
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 2: live in the country, but I would never even burn cardboard.

956
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 2: I wouldn't do that.

957
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 1: That's wrong.

958
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 2: It's the end of the episode. By everyone, cool People

959
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: Who did.

960
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 1: Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media.

961
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 3: For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website

962
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 3: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

963
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.