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Speaker 1: Reveals as a production of I Heart Radio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Rivals, the show about music beefs and

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Speaker 1: feuds and long swimmering resentments between musicians. I'm Steve and

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Speaker 1: I'm Jordan's and this is the end of our epic

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Speaker 1: trilogy on Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, and it's been

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Speaker 1: building to one man, Nil Young. I'm sure he would

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Speaker 1: have it no other way. He is the godfather of

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Speaker 1: C S n Y. He's got the other three in

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Speaker 1: his back pocket. When he calls, they come when he walks, well,

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Speaker 1: that's just buying to his passive aggressive mind control is

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Speaker 1: like Jedi level. I mean, you know, I know, I

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Speaker 1: said in an earlier episode Crosby's my favorite member of

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Speaker 1: C S n Y. But Neil is easily the most

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Speaker 1: fascinating and he's also the best. I mean, let's be real.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I said in our previous episode that I

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Speaker 1: love Steven still is the most out of the original three.

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Speaker 1: But there's no question than that Neil Young as a

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Speaker 1: solo artist just towers over the other three guys in

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Speaker 1: this band. I mean, he truly is like one of

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Speaker 1: the greatest singer songwriters ever and one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: guitar players ever. Um. But what's often forgotten now, like

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Speaker 1: some fifty years later, is that when he joined Crosby

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Speaker 1: Stills in Nash, he wasn't really a star yet. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, I think you could argue that joining this

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Speaker 1: band made him a star, and then he proceeded to

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Speaker 1: completely outshine the rest of the band for like the

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Speaker 1: next several decades. I love when he was inducted into

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Speaker 1: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he got

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Speaker 1: up there and said, it's basically been a solo trip.

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Speaker 1: That was his quote, it's a solo trip, which is

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Speaker 1: really interesting when you consider Buffalo, Springfield, Crosby Stills, Nash,

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Speaker 1: and Young, Crazy Horse, the Stray Gators. You know, he

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Speaker 1: played with Pearl jam Booker team the MG's. But it's

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Speaker 1: also really you know, insightful, accurate statement for him. I

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Speaker 1: think it's an important clue in understanding the complicated mind

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Speaker 1: of Neil Young. Yeah, we all love Neil Young because

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Speaker 1: he has that strong individualist street ko. He has this

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Speaker 1: mercurial nature that has caused him to make all sorts

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Speaker 1: of like perverse decisions in his career that seemed like

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Speaker 1: the antithesis of like smart show business management. But when

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Speaker 1: you look at like his work within the confines of

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Speaker 1: csn Y, I don't think there's any question that he

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Speaker 1: actually was like a secret show biz genius. I think

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Speaker 1: in a previous episode I compared him to Machiavelli, uh,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's really true. I mean, he played

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Speaker 1: the dudes in csn Y like a fiddle and not

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Speaker 1: only won the band, but he won it in a

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Speaker 1: route I can't wait to analyze how he did it.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's get into this mess. Well,

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Speaker 1: Neil's entry point in the csn Y I was through

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Speaker 1: Stephen Stills and they met playing clubs together in Neil's

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Speaker 1: native Canada back in early nine five, and they were

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Speaker 1: really immediately impressed with each other because they saw something

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Speaker 1: in the other that they themselves lacked. You know, Neil

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Speaker 1: admired Steven's really like soulful, gritty, sort of traditionally good voice,

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Speaker 1: and Stephen admired news early songwriting attempts, which I don't

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Speaker 1: think Steven was really doing much of at that time.

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Speaker 1: It's funny given all their fighting in later years, and

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Speaker 1: they're very different personality types. I think Lynna McCartney would

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Speaker 1: describe them as chalk and cheese. It's really easy to

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Speaker 1: forget how they came from really similar family backgrounds. They

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Speaker 1: both had these really complicated relationships with their sort of

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Speaker 1: largely absent fathers, and they had these sort of domineering

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Speaker 1: mothers and no matter what they did, nothing they ever

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Speaker 1: did was good enough for their mothers. And so it

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Speaker 1: kind of fostered this superhuman drive and ambition that they

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Speaker 1: both have. But it manifests in really different ways. Like

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Speaker 1: Neil is sort of the scrawny kid that can always

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Speaker 1: win a fight. He just excels at self preservation, whereas

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Speaker 1: Stills has the self destructive streak that would I think

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Speaker 1: would ultimately burn them out. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we cover this in depth in our Stephen Steele's episode UM.

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Speaker 1: And if you listen to the episode, you know that

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Speaker 1: Neil has murdered Stephen Steels over and over and over

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Speaker 1: again over the years for the reasons that you said that,

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Speaker 1: UM to some degree, like Stills is putting the knife

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Speaker 1: in him self while Neil is like whispering in his

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Speaker 1: ear and driving him insane with this passive aggressive mind control.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it really is striking like how different those

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Speaker 1: guys were, and how you think just looking at them

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Speaker 1: superficially that you think, oh, Steven Stills is the more

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Speaker 1: assertive one and Neil is more passive. But really Neil

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Speaker 1: was able to assert himself in a more subtle and

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Speaker 1: ultimately effective way. So Neil, in your now, Neil is

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Speaker 1: Hannibal Lecter, and then Stephen is multiple meets exactly. I

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Speaker 1: think that's perfect. So Neil and Stephen go through separate

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Speaker 1: ways in these Canadian clubs. Stephen, as we said in

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Speaker 1: the previous episode, goes to l A in search of

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Speaker 1: session work and monkeys stardom, which doesn't work out for him.

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Speaker 1: Neil stays in Canada informs a group called the Minor

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Speaker 1: Birds with Bruce Palmer and a very very very young

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Speaker 1: Rick James. And I just I want to throw this

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Speaker 1: in there because if you haven't listened to it, please

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Speaker 1: have you heard the line of Birds ever? Stephen? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's there. They're one of the like great wood if

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Speaker 1: stories in the industry, Like if that could have actually happened,

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Speaker 1: they could have been like you know, across between like

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Speaker 1: Funkadelic and the Rolling Stones, the Chambers Brothers or something. Yeah, unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: They almost made it to Motown, but Rick James was

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Speaker 1: arrested for going uh a wall from the Navy, and

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Speaker 1: the whole Motown dealt torpedoes. So Bruce and Neil drive

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Speaker 1: to l A in search of Steven Stills and they're

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Speaker 1: driving Neil's Pontiac Hearse and they're looking all over l

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Speaker 1: A can't find Stephen. They eventually find him in a

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Speaker 1: traffic jam going the opposite way down sunset. Neil does

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Speaker 1: a UEI and Stephen sees Neil in his rear view

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Speaker 1: mirror in a black hearse, and I think that's the

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Speaker 1: most perfect metaphor for their relationship professional relationship, at least

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Speaker 1: I can possibly think of. Whenever Stephen thinks things are

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Speaker 1: going well, Neil Young pulls up behind him in a

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Speaker 1: black Hurst and uh and murders him really exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's very telling that he's driving a hearse because he's

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Speaker 1: there to drive away Steven Stills his corpse essentially. So

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Speaker 1: they formed Buffalo Springfield and they start fighting pretty much instantly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's always It was funny that Neil's early

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Speaker 1: on stage attire was this like buckskin fringe Native American outfit,

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Speaker 1: and then Stills would always wear these like stetsons and

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Speaker 1: cowboy outfits. They were literally cowboys and Indians on stage,

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Speaker 1: always fighting. And Neil later said, I think it was

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Speaker 1: in the Jimmy mcdonobiography, Shaky said was Steven and I.

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Speaker 1: It was two young guys, two musical forces trying to

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Speaker 1: coexist in a band that we knew was really good,

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Speaker 1: but neither of us had planned on the other being

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Speaker 1: a force. I think that pretty much sums it up.

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Speaker 1: It was equally strong Wills with totally different personalities, and

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Speaker 1: Stills was much more, as you said, openly domineering. And

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Speaker 1: he would criticize Neil, you know, missing a note on stage.

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Speaker 1: And I guess whenever they would play the Whiskey a

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Speaker 1: go go, the waitresses new to like listen really carefully

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Speaker 1: during their set because after the show there would always

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Speaker 1: be some fight that they'd be called in the sort

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Speaker 1: of referee on be like, you know, Nel misaid no,

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Speaker 1: didn't you hear it right? And then Neils like, no, no, no, come,

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Speaker 1: I I did it fine, And yeah, I always felt

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Speaker 1: bad for the white presses at the Whiskey. Uh so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the fighting was pretty much instant. Yeah, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, when we think about Neil Young, we always

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Speaker 1: think about a guy who hits every single note. You know,

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Speaker 1: that is really the genius Reil Young. He never misses

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Speaker 1: a note. It's very precise. Yeah, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: if you were to look at these two guys in

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six and you were going to take a

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Speaker 1: bet on who was going to have the more lasting career,

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Speaker 1: I think the smart money at that time would have

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Speaker 1: been on Stephen Stills. You know, he's this blonde, square jawed,

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Speaker 1: good looking guy, this cool, bluesy voice. He's writing basically

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Speaker 1: like conventional like folk rock songs, like doing it really well.

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Speaker 1: But then you have Neil Young, who is this awkward,

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Speaker 1: gangly guy with like a with a whiny, high pitched voice.

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Speaker 1: He seems a little shaky on stage, to allude to

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Speaker 1: the Jimmy McDonough book, and he's writing songs that are

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Speaker 1: you know, much more eccentric and don't necessarily have that

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Speaker 1: immediate pop appeal that some of the early Stills songs had.

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Speaker 1: But we can see, of course, in retrospect that these

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Speaker 1: things that seemed like negatives about Neil Young in sixty

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Speaker 1: six all ended up being positives because Neil Young, he's

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Speaker 1: an artist that you have to lean into in order

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Speaker 1: to understand, you know, he makes you come to him.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like that's true like a lot of

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Speaker 1: the greatest artists of all time. You know, they don't

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Speaker 1: seem like they're pandering to you. They make you concentrate

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Speaker 1: on what they're doing, and it forces the audience to

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Speaker 1: focus in much more than they normally would have. And

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Speaker 1: I actually feel like Neil Young was self aware of that,

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Speaker 1: and that's part of his genius, that he knew that

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Speaker 1: he could be himself and not compromising it would actually

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Speaker 1: make him more charismatic. Yeah, I could never figure out

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Speaker 1: if he knew that that was something almost in the

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Speaker 1: Dylan mold of like no, I'm just going to be

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Speaker 1: myself and that authenticity will will resonate with people, or

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Speaker 1: if he just truly didn't give it dam I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's probably a combination of public Neil Young.

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Speaker 1: It's always hard to tell, like how much is just

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Speaker 1: his own nature of you know, being stubborn and just

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Speaker 1: being focused on his own was and how much of

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Speaker 1: it is like this canny understanding of like how to

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Speaker 1: get ahead. I mean, I do think that those things

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Speaker 1: aren't mutually exclusive, you know. I think on one hand

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Speaker 1: he was this very idiosyncretic artist, but on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: he was also ambitious and he and he wanted to

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Speaker 1: be a star. But yeah, I mean early on in

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Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield, I think these things that we're talking about,

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Speaker 1: they seemed like liabilities, like his singing voice, for instance,

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Speaker 1: He really wasn't not allowed to sing all that much

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Speaker 1: in Buffalo Springfield. Like on that first record, Neil wrote

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Speaker 1: some wonderful songs like nowadays Clanty can't even sing and

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Speaker 1: Flying on the Ground is wrong, But those songs were

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Speaker 1: he didn't sing those songs. Richie Furray sang those songs

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Speaker 1: who had a much more sort of conventional country rock

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Speaker 1: sounding voice, and a lot of his songs too, like

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Speaker 1: they weren't picked to be the singles, or they were.

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Speaker 1: I think like Burned was a single, was Flying on

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Speaker 1: the Ground is wrong a single? Too early on? I

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Speaker 1: think nowadays Clansy can't even sing and Burned with the

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Speaker 1: first two Buffalo Springfield singles. But again, yeah, Neil wasn't

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Speaker 1: allowed to sing him and Stephen would be awful to him.

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Speaker 1: He they would finally let him sing occasionally on stage,

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Speaker 1: and Stephen would get on the mic and apologize to

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Speaker 1: the crowd for what his band Nate was about to

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Speaker 1: do to them and flick his terrible voice onto them,

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Speaker 1: and Neil would go off stage and go to his

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Speaker 1: dressing room and cry, which is something I cannot imagine

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Speaker 1: Neil Young ever doing. I know, I know, that's that's

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Speaker 1: that's such a sad story. I know. Steven Stills too,

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Speaker 1: also had an issue with Mr. Soul originally because he

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Speaker 1: thought that that song was basically too derivative of Satisfaction

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Speaker 1: by the Rolling Stones, which, truth be told, that song

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Speaker 1: does sound a lot like Satisfaction, but it's also a

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing song on his own, and that is like

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Speaker 1: one of the like few Neil Young songs that Neil

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Speaker 1: was actually allowed to sing. And I feel like by

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Speaker 1: their second record, which was Buffalo Springfield, again Neil was

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Speaker 1: allowed to step into the four a little bit more

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Speaker 1: like he sings a Mr. Soul, he sings Expecting to Fly,

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Speaker 1: which is the big epic on that record. But he

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Speaker 1: also had the issue of epilepsy at this time, like

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Speaker 1: where he started having um seizures on stage. It seems

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Speaker 1: like maybe that was somewhat uh precipitated by like all

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Speaker 1: the stress that was going on in that band. But

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Speaker 1: again that's like another factor that when you look at

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Speaker 1: it and you're like, you know, if you're looking at

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Speaker 1: him in like nineteen sixty seven, sixty eight, you're just thinking, like,

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Speaker 1: is this guy like too fragile, you know to have

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Speaker 1: a long lasting career. Yeah, I mean, you do wonder

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Speaker 1: which came first, the epilepsy or the stress in the band.

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Speaker 1: Because his his his ex wife Carrie Snodgrass would it

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Speaker 1: would later say, you know, he used to eat to

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Speaker 1: basically say oh no, I feel a seizure coming on,

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Speaker 1: I can't go to this dinner party or I can't

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Speaker 1: do this or that, And he would say, you know,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't put it past Neil the fake as seizure

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Speaker 1: to get out of things. So he would later say

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Speaker 1: that he withdrew from Buffalo Springfield because of just the

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Speaker 1: toxic energy there and all the stress. But also you know,

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Speaker 1: who knows he could have used his affliction with just

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Speaker 1: saying you know what, I don't want to deal with this,

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Speaker 1: and I have a doctor's note saying I don't have

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Speaker 1: to do that, right, Yeah, I mean again, it just

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Speaker 1: seemed like in Buffalo Springfield is great of a band

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Speaker 1: as that was, it just seems like it turned into

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Speaker 1: a toxic situation pretty early on, and that I think

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Speaker 1: combined with Neil's just again that that resolute nature that

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Speaker 1: I think he already had where he wanted to be

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Speaker 1: in control, and he knew that he wasn't going to

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Speaker 1: be in control if he was in a band with

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Speaker 1: Stephen Stills. Although that was a lesson he was going

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Speaker 1: to like not follow, I guess in the very near future,

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Speaker 1: but like he ends up quitting the band like pretty

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Speaker 1: early on, right, I mean, their whole relationship was just

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Speaker 1: hanging by a thread when they were recording Mr. Soul

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Speaker 1: and Neil really wanted it to be the single, and Stephen,

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Speaker 1: as you said, thought it sounded way too much like Satisfaction,

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Speaker 1: and he was pushing his own song Bluebird, which is

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Speaker 1: an amazing song. He put Neil through hell during the

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Speaker 1: recording of it. I think the engineer Bruce Botnick said

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Speaker 1: that Stephen just hectored Neil so much they ended up

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Speaker 1: having a seizure like in the studio during the sessions

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Speaker 1: for it. So not a pleasant time. Bluebirds the a

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Speaker 1: side Mr. Souls the B side. Neil at this point

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Speaker 1: has made it clear to the rest of the band

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Speaker 1: that he wants out, and he he agrees to stay

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Speaker 1: on through the Monterey Pop Festival in June sixty seven,

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Speaker 1: but then the band lands a gig on the Johnny

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Speaker 1: Carson Show as the first rock band on Carson, which

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Speaker 1: I still think it's nuts that they chose that cool

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Speaker 1: of a band. I thought it would have been like,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Association or something. I mean, yeah, someone

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Speaker 1: that person's staff was pretty hip, totally yeah, I never

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Speaker 1: understood that. But Neil was not into this. He thought

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Speaker 1: that just being on Carson, he was worried that the

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Speaker 1: Buffalo Sprinkle would have been basically a curiosity for Middle

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Speaker 1: America just to basically point and laugh at and like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like like creatures in a zoo or something.

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Speaker 1: So two days before they're due to take the show,

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Speaker 1: he bolts. He he vanishes, he doesn't answer anybody's calls.

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Speaker 1: He goes to hide out, I think, at his girlfriend's

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Speaker 1: house in the San Fernando Valley and he's just gone.

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Speaker 1: And then he's gone for the Monterey Pop Festival too,

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Speaker 1: and they get Crosby to fill in for him, and

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Speaker 1: Stills would later say, you know, this happened again and

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Speaker 1: again right exactly when I needed Neil. Was the time

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Speaker 1: that he left. He left right when I needed him

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Speaker 1: post and I think that that, you know, is the

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Speaker 1: wound that never really heals between them too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Stills has all this ambition, and I think on some

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Speaker 1: level he probably feels like he needs Neil and um

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Speaker 1: right when they're at a crucial juncture of getting this

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Speaker 1: massive mass media exposure. Neil bolts and so Neil is

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Speaker 1: working on his own song called Expecting to Fly, which

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Speaker 1: is this amazing track he does with Jack Nietzsch, who

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Speaker 1: was Full Spector's longtime arranger, and uh, it is a

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Speaker 1: wild song. I always kind of thought that that was

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Speaker 1: like one of the first like Laurel Canyon singers songwriters

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Speaker 1: songs as opposed to like, you know, a band folk

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Speaker 1: rock song. I mean, what do you think of that song?

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Speaker 1: Is a great track, and it really shows that like

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Speaker 1: Neil Young at that time had aspirations to be almost

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Speaker 1: like a Brian Wilson like figure, like where it would

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Speaker 1: be very because you know, we always think of Will

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Speaker 1: Young as being very raw in the studio working with

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Speaker 1: Crazy Horse and you know, playing live and leaving the

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Speaker 1: mistakes in. But he also has this strain like where

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Speaker 1: he was obsessed with studio craft and he would construct

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Speaker 1: songs like Expect and to Fly. His first solo record

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Speaker 1: is like that too. It's much more sort of as

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Speaker 1: much more studio polished than like his subsequent records would have.

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Speaker 1: But you know, again that's like part of this sort

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Speaker 1: of you know, there's so many contradictions that Neil Young.

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Speaker 1: You know, we were talking earlier about how on one

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Speaker 1: hand he seems to be almost like anti show business

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Speaker 1: and then on the other hand he's been incredibly canny

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Speaker 1: and how he's maneuvered in his career over the years.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's so many paradoxes like that Neil

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Speaker 1: Young's career that you just have to reconcile, like if

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Speaker 1: you're trying to understand him. But you know, just just

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Speaker 1: talking about all this, you know, the minary pop thing

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Speaker 1: and you know him like not wanting to be on

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Speaker 1: television and all that stuff. I just feel like, and

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Speaker 1: we're gonna see this. I think as this episode unfolds

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Speaker 1: that like no one has gotten more mileage out of

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Speaker 1: saying no than Neil Young or like the threat that

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Speaker 1: he could say no, you know, and I think we're

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Speaker 1: going to see that like later on in the history

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Speaker 1: of csn Y, where like he had traumatized these guys

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Speaker 1: so much that they were afraid of him, and they basically, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they like, we're afraid that he's going to reject us.

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Speaker 1: So it just caused them to seed any control of

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Speaker 1: the band, Like when Neil Young would come into the picture,

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Speaker 1: like you know, they just would lay down for him,

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Speaker 1: basically because he had said no so many other times

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Speaker 1: in the past. And like with Buffalo Springfield to like

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Speaker 1: you know, he quit the band, and then he rejoined

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Speaker 1: the band again, and then he ended up quitting again.

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Speaker 1: I guess, like was that in like sixty eight or so. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he rejoined basically because the DJ started flipping over the

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Speaker 1: Bluebird single and playing his song Mr. Soul instead, And

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Speaker 1: so suddenly, now that his song was getting all this

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Speaker 1: hair play, he decided, Oh, maybe maybe being back in

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Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield's not so bad after all, all right hand,

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more rivals. So he rejoins,

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Speaker 1: but then, um, you know, it's just more of the same, uh,

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Speaker 1: constant fighting there was a drug bust and there they

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Speaker 1: were busted I think Steven Still's girlfriend's house, and everybody

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Speaker 1: was sent to jail except Stills, who I guess escaped

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Speaker 1: out of bathroom window and ran for it. And I

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Speaker 1: always wondered, like how much that played a role in

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Speaker 1: like you know, they're how much that piste Neel off.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Neil was like risking deportation by by getting

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Speaker 1: arrested everything, and Neil and Stephen just booked it. So

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Speaker 1: he's never really spoken much about that, but I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine that that really endeared uh, Steven to Neil very much.

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Speaker 1: But he eventually quit again. The band was on his

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Speaker 1: last legs in the spring of sixty eight, and then

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Speaker 1: uh and then they were done, I think in like April.

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Speaker 1: So Neil ends up making his first solo record. I

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Speaker 1: think that comes down sixty eight. It's a self titled record,

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Speaker 1: and it's a good record, although again it seems a

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Speaker 1: little weird in terms of like how we think of

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Speaker 1: Neil Young now, because you know, I think of Neil

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Speaker 1: Young either as the acoustic troubadour or as like the

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Speaker 1: raw garage rocker with Crazy Horse, and like his self

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Speaker 1: titled record is this sort of like again, it's more

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Speaker 1: in the vein of like expecting to fly like him

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Speaker 1: maybe indulging his like Brian Wilson's side, like wanting to

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Speaker 1: make this sort of immaculate studio record. I think that

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Speaker 1: Neil Young, that we all know and love like really

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Speaker 1: comes into the four with his second record, which is

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Speaker 1: Everybody Knows This is Nowhere, which is his first with

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Speaker 1: Crazy Horse, and of course this ends up being a

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Speaker 1: very fruitful relationship for Neil Young. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: talked about this a bit in our Steven Steele's episode.

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Speaker 1: I think the thing with Neil Young is that he

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Speaker 1: often will surround himself with musicians that I think aren't

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Speaker 1: quite as good as him. And I think there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of reasons for that. Speaking of like Crazy Horse specifically,

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Speaker 1: I think one coming out of Buffalo Springfield, he probably

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Speaker 1: wanted to be in a situation like where he was

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Speaker 1: going to be unquestioned leader. You know, there was not

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Speaker 1: going to be another Stephen Stills, like figuring Crazy Horse.

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Speaker 1: I guess Danny Witten would be like that to some degree,

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Speaker 1: but you know, I don't think Whitten was as much

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Speaker 1: of an egomaniac as Steven Stills like he wasn't gona

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Speaker 1: have power struggles with Danny Witten and Crazy Horse. And

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Speaker 1: I think the other reason too, is that Neil Young

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Speaker 1: realized that if he had this very simple and primitive

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Speaker 1: backdrop that it would just allow him to shine all

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Speaker 1: the more. And when you listen to those Crazy Horse records,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like the formula is you have

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Speaker 1: this great sort of lurching rhythm section, and out of

390
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Speaker 1: that explodes these like majestic Neil Young guitar solos that

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Speaker 1: go on for several minutes. And it's such a great

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Speaker 1: it's such a great formula, and it's a contrast to

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Speaker 1: like what Steven Stills did when he started Benassas, for instance,

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Speaker 1: which was this overloaded band, lots of great players, lots

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Speaker 1: of people showing off. It's very busy and it's great,

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Speaker 1: but like it doesn't quite have the power that Neil

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Speaker 1: Young has with Crazy Horse because everything the backdrop is

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Speaker 1: so stripped back it just allows him to really step forward.

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Speaker 1: I think it's hilarious like how the other guys in

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Speaker 1: csn Y thought about Crazy Horse. Crazy Horse. David Crosby

401
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Speaker 1: I think has been the most vocal did he have

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Speaker 1: some quote where he was like, you know, there shouldn't

403
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Speaker 1: have been allowed to be musicians. They should have been killed,

404
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 1: they should have been shot at birth. They can't play.

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Speaker 1: You have a Crosby quote machine, David Cross, and that's

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Speaker 1: him on the record too. You know, again, like we talked,

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Speaker 1: we talked about that in our Crosby episode about how

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Speaker 1: like when Crosby was calling Darrell Hannah the devil or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you know, he claimed that was like off the record,

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Speaker 1: this is Crosby. This was very much Crosby on the

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Speaker 1: record saying that Crazy Horse should be killed because they

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Speaker 1: can't play, which is hilarious, but I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: you know, that was probably another thing that appealed to

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Speaker 1: Neil Young about Crazy Horse as the years would would

415
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Speaker 1: roll on, about how different that world was from like

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Speaker 1: the csn Y world, that he could just go into

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Speaker 1: the garage with Crazy Horse and I wouldn't have to

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Speaker 1: deal with like a lot of the star trips that

419
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: were in csn Y. But we talked about this, you know,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this in our previous two episodes in

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Speaker 1: this series about how Neil Young ended up in csn Y.

422
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 1: We could probably just blow through it quickly here. But

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Speaker 1: I mean basically the idea was they made that first record,

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Speaker 1: that record with you know, the three guys on the Couch,

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Speaker 1: and then they needed someone to pump up their sounds

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Speaker 1: as as a live act, right, and Neil Young was

427
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 1: the one that ended up kind of fitting that bill. Yeah,

428
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 1: they were considering Steve Winwood and a couple of other people,

429
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 1: and they landed on Neil. And I've spent a lot

430
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: of time trying to wonder why Stephen, who'd finally become

431
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 1: free of his personal nemesis, decided to bring him back

432
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: after all these years of Neil making his life in

433
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,880
Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield a living hell. It's one of the big

434
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 1: questions of this series. I think it's the unresolved question.

435
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: My best guess is that it was to sort of

436
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 1: fulfill the unfulfilled potential of Buffalo Springfield. You know, I

437
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: think about those couples that you know not to but

438
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: to find a point out, It's like a couple that

439
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 1: has great sex but can't stand one another. The draw

440
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 1: is so strong, but the good stuff that happens between

441
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 1: them was born out of this like toxic torrent of

442
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: resentment and rage, but stills is convinced that they could

443
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: make it work. They can actually really make it work.

444
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's almost like a brother thing

445
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: there too, like where I think we'll talk about this

446
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: little later in the episode, because I think their relationship

447
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 1: is sort of evolved in like almost like a heartwarming

448
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 1: direction in like later years. But yeah, I mean, I

449
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: think that there's a realization there that, like, you know,

450
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: we are connected in a way that like I'm not

451
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: connected to other people, Like I think Stills and Young

452
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 1: are much closer than like they are too, like Crosby

453
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: and Nash, you know, like those guys have something separate

454
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 1: on their own, I guess in a way, in the

455
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: same way that like Crosby and Nash had their own

456
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 1: thing going on. Stills Young and even like how it

457
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: could be toxic, although really, I mean, I guess it's

458
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: funny because Stills was way worse than Neil Young early on,

459
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: but I think over the totality of their relationship, Neil

460
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 1: Young has been harder on Stephen Stills in a lot

461
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: of ways. I don't know, man, It's it's such a

462
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: weird dynamic, man, Like how these guys just invite pain

463
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,040
Speaker 1: from each other over and over again, like it's true

464
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,639
Speaker 1: for all the guys in this band, I think. I mean,

465
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: Neil initially was very suspicious of getting into Crosby Stills

466
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: in Nash too, and he dragged his feet I think

467
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,959
Speaker 1: for like a month or something. And as usual, he

468
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 1: derives his power by making himself scarce, and I guess,

469
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, people won't what they can't have, and that

470
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 1: probably went a long way in sort of forcing the

471
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 1: band's hand and making him not just a side guy,

472
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: but but a full partner, you know, name in the

473
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: band name kind of thing. And um, you know, obviously

474
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,719
Speaker 1: Neil was very aware that he was joining you know,

475
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 1: the American Beatles, the most celebrated group in the country,

476
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,719
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be a bad thing for himself, I mean,

477
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 1: to take his own group. I mean, because it's important

478
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: to say that Neil's you know, name recognition was nil

479
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 1: at this point. Really, I mean he would it would

480
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: have been like you know, Crosbys Nation Young, and then

481
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: like Crosby Stills in Nash and then like Gene Clark

482
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: or something like that, like somebody who who was really

483
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: sort of more of a cult fringe figure. And by

484
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,880
Speaker 1: joining this group, as he said, at the beginning, would

485
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: just expose him to this huge audience. And I think

486
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: he was upfront about this in later years too, where

487
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: he said, you know, Crosby, Stills and Nash and Young

488
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: is gonna make me a lot of money and it

489
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: definitely plays a big part in me being here. And um,

490
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: he also made it clear from the start that this

491
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 1: was not his first priority. Could come and go as

492
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: he pleased and express himself and whatever other projects that

493
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 1: he wished. So, I mean, it's really an incredible setup, Neil.

494
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there's never a downside at all. It could

495
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: only help him, Yeah, exactly, especially because, like he said,

496
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: he always had that back door that he could walk

497
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: out of. And it's really funny to me too, like

498
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 1: how Neil almost from the beginning was able to like

499
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,199
Speaker 1: both benefit from being in this band because again, as

500
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: you said, they were like the American Beatles at this time,

501
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: they were hugely popular, and Neil Young, you know, he

502
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: was known from Buffalo Springfield, but like his his first

503
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 1: two solo records didn't sell all that well, like at

504
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: the beginning, so you know, he was really coming into

505
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: this great situation. But then he could also like use

506
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: that band to boost his own credibility by putting them down,

507
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: make it away, and like, I feel like there's an

508
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: early example of that, like when they performed at Woodstock,

509
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: because you know, all four of them were at Woodstock.

510
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,959
Speaker 1: I think it was like the second show they ever played.

511
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: There's that famous clip of Steven Still saying that you know,

512
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 1: we're scared shitless, you know, playing at this show. And

513
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: then the movie comes out and Neil Young refuses to

514
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 1: be a part of the film, so you only see

515
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: the three other guys in there. And we can link

516
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: that to all the other examples that we've talked about

517
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: about Neil Young sort of making himself the story by

518
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 1: taking himself out, you know, like I'm the story now

519
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: because I'm not there, and that's really kind of the

520
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: story of like that film appearance. I also feel like,

521
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, and he wouldn't have known this at the time,

522
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: but it ended up being a I think a very

523
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: advantageous decision by him because you look at Neil Young,

524
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: he's like one of the only people of his generation

525
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: that had like serious like credibility with like punks and

526
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: like indie rockers and like later like the grunge rockers

527
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: of that time, and I think it was because he

528
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 1: was from the sixties, but like he could distance himself

529
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: from some of the big sixties signifiers, like in a

530
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: way that David Crosby couldn't. Like David Crosby is so

531
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: endemically sixties when you look at him, where if you're

532
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: like a punk and you hate the sixties, he's like

533
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: an easy target to make fun of, whereas Neil Young

534
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: is like right next to David Crosby and a lot

535
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: of things. But it's like, oh, he's the guy that

536
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: didn't want to be in the Woodstock movie. So it's

537
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: like he almost has this like weird credibility there because

538
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 1: he didn't do that or he wouldn't allow himself to

539
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: be in the movie. I'm going to make myself the

540
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: story by being absent because I have integrity. It's genius.

541
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: It's it's a genius move. And like I feel like, again,

542
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: maybe he was doing that because that's how he really felt,

543
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that's the case, but you can't tell

544
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: me that on some level he didn't realize the smartness

545
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: of that. From like just the image and career standpoint, Yeah,

546
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: I mean this would happen again and again and again,

547
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean even when you're when they're recording their first

548
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: album as a as a quartet, Deja Vu, he was

549
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: absent really for most of that was really a Crosby

550
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: Stills a Nash album featuring Neil Young. You know, I

551
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: think two of his songs. I think he only played

552
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: on five of all the songs on the album. And

553
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills in their debut have been pretty painless to

554
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: make because Stills had been sort of the unchecked musical director,

555
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: and with Deja Vu, it was not that way at all.

556
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: It was almost like the White album sessions were really

557
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: kind of fractured and strained, and Neil famously hated all

558
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: the sounds of the offal of Springfield Records, and he

559
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: was very low to relinquished control over the sounds of

560
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: his songs. So when he would get in there and

561
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: record his tracks Helpless and Country Girl, he basically viewed

562
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 1: it as like that's his business. He would record the songs,

563
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: take the tapes, go to his personal producer, David Briggs

564
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: to get it all set and mixed on his own

565
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: and make it sound the way he wanted it to sound,

566
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: as opposed to you know, still sitting there like, well,

567
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: what are you doing? This is a band and you

568
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: can't just take your things and do it completely by yourself.

569
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, I engineered the first album

570
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: we did and it sold the gazillion copies. I know

571
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. First of all, why don't you trust me?

572
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: And second of all, how dare you right? Exactly? And

573
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: again we talked about in our last episode. But yeah,

574
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: still is just like, dude, I'm doing you a favorite man.

575
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: I'm literally adding millions of dollars to your bank account

576
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: by inviting you into this band that I started. And

577
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: now you're pulling this stuff again, you know, yeah, just

578
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 1: murdering Stills in the studio during deja It's like, get

579
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: the black hearse out, Neil, get the hearse haul Steven

580
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: Stills away. One story that really makes me laugh is

581
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: about the song Teacher Children, and this occurred years later.

582
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: Of course, Teacher Children is like one of the big

583
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: hit songs from Deja Vu that Neil Young doesn't play on,

584
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 1: and Graham Nash was always like really upset about that

585
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 1: because like they had the session, Neil knew when it

586
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: was and he just didn't show up. Graham, you know,

587
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: And I think justifiably took that as like a sign

588
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: of disrespect. It's like, hey, like we are here for you,

589
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: why can't you play on my song? It just makes

590
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: me feel like you don't really take my song seriously.

591
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: And like, years later, Graham Nash had I think his

592
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: first opportunity to license that song for a commercial, and

593
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: I think that song has been like in a million

594
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: commercials since then. But Neil Young was upset about that

595
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: because his name was on it, and he had also

596
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: just put out that song this Notes for You from

597
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: the late eighties, you know that song where he's like

598
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: making fun of corporate Yeah, And Graham Nash was basically like, dude,

599
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: you didn't play on the song. So like, I don't

600
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: really care what you think. I'm gonna do this. I

601
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: gonna make bank. You should have shown up to the session,

602
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: you know, twenty years ago. You know, maybe I would

603
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 1: care about your opinion, but you know, I'm giving you

604
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: the heads up out of a courtesy, but I'm gonna

605
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: take the cash. So I think that's pretty funny. You

606
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: know the other thing too, And I'm curious to hear

607
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: your thoughts on this. You know, I was revisiting Neil

608
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: Young Records for this episode, which of course is always

609
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: a great thing to do. I love listening to Neil

610
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: Young records, and I was really struck listening to After

611
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: the gold Rush and Harvest. I don't think I had

612
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: fully made this connection to my mind before about how

613
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: much those albums sound like csn Y and how if

614
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: you listen to the album's Neil Young did before he

615
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: joined that band, you know, he wasn't doing the like

616
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: the folky songs with lots of harmonies. You know, that's

617
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: not everybody knows this is nowhere. He's not really doing

618
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: that on the self titled record. But then you get

619
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: to After the gold Rush, which came out six months

620
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 1: after Deja Vu, so perfectly positioned to like kind of

621
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: capitalize on the success of that record. You have songs

622
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: like tell Me Why Only Level Break Your Heart that

623
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: just have these like again, beautiful melodies. They sound like

624
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: they could have been on a C. S n Y record,

625
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: And that's, you know, doubly true of Harvest, you know,

626
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: which has heard of gold Old Man Needling, the Damage

627
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: Done Again, all very sort of csn Y sounding records,

628
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: And like it occurred to me that, like Neil Young,

629
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: he was able to jack their sound and do it

630
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,719
Speaker 1: by himself and do it better. Because as much as

631
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: I love those CSN and CSNY records, like After the

632
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 1: gold Rush is a better album, Harvest is a better album.

633
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: And he was just like, hey, like I can do

634
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: what you do, and I can sell as many records

635
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: as you guys sell, but I can do it by myself,

636
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: like I don't need you, you know, which is like

637
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: another incredible thing that Neil Young is able to pull

638
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: off at this time. It just blows my mind. Stills

639
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: must have been like, where were you when we were

640
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: doing that? He must have been listening to all these

641
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: I always got the impression that the CSM brought their

642
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: best songs to CSN Y projects, whereas Neil kind of

643
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: brought ones that seems sort of like uncharacteristically, I'm gonna say, lightweight,

644
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: but more lightweight than the stuff that would be on

645
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: After the gold Rush, you know, the songs that ended

646
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: up on Javu, Helpless, and Country Girl. I think he

647
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: also brought Sea of Madness and Everybody's Alone to the

648
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: sessions too, which didn't make the cut, But he kind

649
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 1: of brought these like more slight, poppy songs as if

650
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: that was like all CSN y Dessert. I mean, I

651
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: think Helps is like a pretty great song, although I

652
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: would take most of the songs on After the gold

653
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: Rush probably over that one. I mean, I mean, he

654
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: did write Ohio for them, which is like maybe their

655
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: greatest song, So you gotta tip the cap there. But yeah,

656
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think it's pretty clear, especially

657
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: as we get into like the later albums, when we

658
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: get into like you know, American Dream era and like

659
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: looking Forward, and you look at like what Neil was

660
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: doing on his own versus like what he was contributing

661
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: to those records. Uh yeah, it's like pretty clear, uh

662
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: that he was holding things for himself. Um, he's making

663
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: Freedom the same time, then he's making American Dream I think,

664
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: at the same time. So yeah, so you know, so anyway,

665
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: I mean, so anyway, he makes Deja Vu with with CSN,

666
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: and then he does these like just these brilliant solo

667
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: records end up being huge hits, and it's almost like

668
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: you know, by like say the mid seventies or so.

669
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: I mean, Neil Young I think already at that point

670
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: was probably the biggest star in this galaxy. But he

671
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: was also still drawn into working with these guys again,

672
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: like they started, and we talked about this in our

673
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: Steven Stills episode about Human Highway, like how they tried

674
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: to get that album going. I guess I was like

675
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: in seventy three or so. Yeah, I think at that

676
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: point kind of Neil had sort of haunted by Danny

677
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: Whitten's death and he had done the Harvest tour that

678
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: turned into Time Fades Away, which you know, was so

679
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: unpleasant to him that I don't think he allowed it

680
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: to be, you know, widely available for decades. So he

681
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: was a kind of a low personal and commercial Ebb

682
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: and some of the other three in CSM y Uh.

683
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: They went to Maui, and I think in Jimmy McDonough's book,

684
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: they sort of a side mission aside from trying to

685
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: get the band back together and make a new CSNY album,

686
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: was to try to wean Skills off of cocaine and um.

687
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: Apparently Bruce Barry, who was a man and drove in

688
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: a Conna line vand uh he was a roadie for

689
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: the group. He showed up with cocaine for apparently for

690
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: Stills and it was a big blow up. They sent

691
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: Bruce back to the mainland, where he almost immediately o'd

692
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: I think a couple of days later, um, and so

693
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: this instigated this, you know, big fight with the group

694
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: and the sessions in Hawaii we were called off and

695
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: they eventually met back up at Neil's ranch in in

696
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 1: northern California to try to resume sessions on what was,

697
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: you know, tentatively called Human Highway, which I always thought

698
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: was interesting is that they named it after a Neil song,

699
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: and they went to Neil's ranch to record It's Always

700
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: about coming to Neil and Um. They got a couple

701
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: of days into the sessions on the ranch and Neil

702
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: just walked I think he went to David Briggs house

703
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: late one night and said, I'm doing this record with

704
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: CSN and it's all wrong. I want to make a

705
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: rock and roll record, and that became Tonight's The Night,

706
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: which you know, it was just one of the most

707
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: agonizing expressions of grief on record. It's like up there

708
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: with like the Plastic gon No Band, just him processing

709
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: the death of Danny Wit and Bruce Barry. Yeah, and

710
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's hard to overstate it, like how great

711
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: Neil Young was at this time. You know, there's that

712
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: famous you know, if you love Neil Young, you know

713
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: the story about how he had those big successes with

714
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 1: after the gold Rush and Harvest and of course working

715
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: with csn Y, and then he goes into what is

716
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: known as the Ditch period where he's making these really noisy, angry, sad,

717
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: drunken records like Time paids Away, Tonight's Tonight on the Beach. Uh.

718
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: They're just brilliant and he's just coming up with tremendous stuff.

719
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 1: And you know, I feel like sometimes like the other

720
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: guys in the band get like a little bit of

721
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 1: a short shrift about like what they were doing at

722
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 1: this time, because I think, as we've talked about in

723
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: like our Crosby and Our Skills episode, I still feel

724
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: like at this point the other guys were writing good stuff,

725
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: you know, and they were putting out good albums. I

726
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: think by you know, once we get past the mid seventies,

727
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: things get a little patch here. But you know, I

728
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: feel like in a way, like Neil Young sort of

729
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,839
Speaker 1: fed that perception that these guys in the band like

730
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: were weren't that great, and and truth be told, I

731
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 1: mean they were not as good as him. I mean

732
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: there's no question of that. No one's going to say

733
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: that they were keeping pace really with Neil Young at

734
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: this time. But I just think of like the Doom

735
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: Tour era, and you know, we've talked a lot about

736
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: the Doom Tour already. It's a great period. I know,

737
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: we could just do a whole series on the Doom

738
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: Tour as far as I'm concerned. But you know, I think,

739
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,280
Speaker 1: like Neil Young has talked about how on that tour

740
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: he was disappointed because he felt like, um, you know,

741
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: they were playing these really long shows and they were

742
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,399
Speaker 1: introducing new material into those gigs, but like he felt

743
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: like he was bringing like the most to the table

744
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 1: um And if you listen to the tapes of that time,

745
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean he had some incredible songs that he was

746
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: basically debuting on that tour, Like push It over the

747
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: Edge is like an incredible song, so many great songs.

748
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,760
Speaker 1: I feel like the other guys were also like putting

749
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: up some pretty good stuff too. But there's no question

750
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 1: that Neil Young was like at a real high creatively.

751
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I think most of is this guss with

752
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: that tour was just with like the decadence of it,

753
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: and like how much they were spending on just stuff

754
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: they didn't need, like lobster dinners before the show that

755
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: like no one would eat, you know, that kind of stuff.

756
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: And I think he ended up, well, what's up on

757
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 1: lobsters before? You know? It's like you want a bunch

758
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: of lobsters in your stomach and butter three hours it

759
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,959
Speaker 1: seems awful. And I think by the end of that tour,

760
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: like the rest of the band was like traveling by

761
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: jet and he was like in his like a kind

762
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: of line van essentially right. I mean, wasn't he just

763
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: kind of going like van life on that tour. Yeah,

764
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: he was in like a GMC motor home that I

765
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: think broke down. It was like such a piece of chunk,

766
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: which is you know, imagined Neil Young on the side

767
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: of the road in a in a broken down motor

768
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: home is kind of how I prefer to think of

769
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: Neil Young. But he he wasn't hanging out with the

770
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: other guys at all at that point. No, No, he

771
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 1: was definitely again, um, you know, they were doing the

772
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: rock Star trip and he was basically being like an

773
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: indie rock guy, like I want to do my own thing,

774
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 1: you know, being my own world and look, I love

775
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: that tour. I that live album that they put out,

776
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: the CSNY nineteen seventy four, I think is so good. Um,

777
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 1: but it just seems like Neil Young was not satisfied.

778
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: It seemed like again like him and Stills were battling

779
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: on stage, you know, doing like basically like spinal tap

780
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: like folk rock edition, like where they're just trying to

781
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: out like volume each other, like just cranking the amps

782
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, just killing their ear drums basically,

783
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: which yeah, which I mean. Then of course you get

784
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: Crosby and Nash trying to sing over that, and it

785
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: killed their voices. So when you listen to the tapes back,

786
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: I guess Nash was like almost in tears when he

787
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: played the tapes back because their voices were just shredded

788
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: trying to compete with you know, a hundred decibels of

789
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: Skills and Neils Amps, Marshall Stacks and everything. I mean,

790
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: the other incredible tour. I guess from this era that

791
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: we need to talk about we and we talked about

792
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: this a bit and our Skills episode, but the Stills

793
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: Young band tobaccle that happened. I can't believe that even

794
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: got as far as I did. I just can't believe

795
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: that they even like thought that was a good idea

796
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form, because I mean, you

797
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: listen to that record, and I feel like, on paper,

798
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: that would have been a cool idea. Like again, Stills

799
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: and Young working together, the brothers are back, They're going

800
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: to work out their tensions, and if they could have

801
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,720
Speaker 1: like somehow like channeled the hostility that they had between

802
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: each other into the music, it could have been incredible.

803
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: It could have been like really edgy and alive and great.

804
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: And the record itself, I just feel like it's subpar

805
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: material for the most part from both of those guys,

806
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,439
Speaker 1: except for the title track, which is this great Neil

807
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: Young song, but then you know, the other tracks on

808
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: there are pretty light weight, and then they ended up

809
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: going on tour and then that ended up being a disaster.

810
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I mean Neil didn't like it from the

811
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: beginning because he felt that the band was mostly Steven's people,

812
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: and it's very very important for for Neil to be

813
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: around Neil people. Neil needs Neil people at all times.

814
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: So from the start, Neil feels like something wasn't working,

815
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: the balance was off. And the critics weren't very kind,

816
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: and unfortunately they were praising Neil but trashing Stills. I

817
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: guess there was one headline that was young hot Still's not.

818
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: It's hard to imagine that being that, you know, format

819
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: being used in the context of a rock critic review.

820
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: But he's gonna say, like hot or not existed in

821
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 1: the seventies. I feel like that's the internet. You know,

822
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: they were dropping hotter not chokes in the seventies. That's

823
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of weird. So Stills was very much

824
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: unhappy about being deemed not hot, and he consoled himself

825
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: with alcohol and cocaine, which made him even more tyrannical

826
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: than normal. He starts taking it out on the crew,

827
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: thinking that like the crew is conspiring against him to

828
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: make him sound bad. This, you know, makes him less

829
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 1: than popular with the crew, which then exacerbates his own

830
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: persecution complex, and it goes around the round and round.

831
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 1: One night in I think Charlotte Stills barrates the sound

832
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: guy in front of a packed house, like in the

833
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: middle of the show, and Neil is just horrified by this.

834
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: They are Stills and Neil are traveling in separate buses,

835
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: and um, I guess the next show is in Atlanta,

836
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: and Neil goes up to the driver of his bus

837
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: and says, all right, turn left here. Well, Neil, were

838
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: supposed to go right now, turn left here, goes to

839
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 1: Memphis and catches the plane back to California. Still arrives

840
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: at the hotel in Atlanta and finds a telegram for

841
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: him from Neil that says, Dear Stephen, funny things that

842
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: start spontaneously and that way, eat a peach. Yes, And

843
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: we we covered this in our Stills episode, and I

844
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: think we were looking at it from the perspective of

845
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: Stills again just being a corpse on the floor. At

846
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: that point, he should have said, you know, this is

847
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 1: like the fifth time that Neil Young has murdered me,

848
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: and I just allowed to continue to happen. You know.

849
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 1: It's like that Tom Cruise movie Edge of Tomorrow, you know,

850
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 1: like where he just keeps getting murdered over and over again.

851
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: That's like that should be like the C. S. N

852
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: Y biopic right there. Um, But you know, since this

853
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: is the Neil Young episode, you know, looking at it

854
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: from Neil's perspective, I mean, as like harsh as that

855
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: is to do to someone who's like your friend. I

856
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: get where he's coming from if you're looking at it

857
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: purely from an artistic point of view, because again, he's

858
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,800
Speaker 1: on the road promoting a record that's not very good.

859
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: He's with a guy who's like yelling at the sound

860
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: guy overplaying on every song. He's probably thinking in his mind,

861
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: you know, I can hook up with Crazy Horse, I

862
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: can hook up with the Stray Gators. I can do

863
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: something that is like way better than this. I'm in

864
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: the middle of like one of the greatest runs in

865
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: rock history in terms of albums, like I'm just spitting

866
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: fire left and right. You know. I think of that

867
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,399
Speaker 1: song Thrasher from Rest and Every Sleeps with the line

868
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: in there he talks about like those guys were dead

869
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: weight to me, such a devastating song, and it's and

870
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: he's talking about CSN why And you know, I think

871
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: this is an instance where he's like, I gotta cut

872
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: the dead weight or I'm going to drown, you know.

873
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: And so from that perspective, I understand it. It's like,

874
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: you know, yes, he murdered Stephen Stills, but maybe it

875
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: was self defense. You know. It's like it's like either

876
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: him or me, I'll murder him so I can survive.

877
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: He would defend himself. Years later, he's say, you know,

878
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 1: I only care about the music. It's sad sometimes people

879
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: are damaged by it. But if people understand me, they

880
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: understand that when the music is finished with me, I'll

881
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: be back if you can wait for me, that says.

882
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 1: So let's flash forward to the eighties and this is like, actually,

883
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: this is a dark period I think for all involved.

884
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: Although I feel like in a way you could have

885
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,320
Speaker 1: argued maybe in the early eighties that like CSN had

886
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: some say Daylight Again if you will, with their album

887
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: two is Daylight Again, which was like a pretty big

888
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: hit record. I mean Southern Crosses on that record, wasted

889
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: on the ways on that record. Um so they had

890
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: this sort of flash of relevance again, whereas Neil Young

891
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 1: was really at a low point in terms of his

892
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 1: commercial appeal and his critical appeal. And you know, he

893
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: was not the Neil Young necessarily that we think of now,

894
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: Like he was pretty marginalized. And in a way you

895
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: could say that he was doing it to himself because

896
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 1: he put out this sort of wacky series of albums,

897
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: albums like Everybody's rocking old ways, trans all albums that

898
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: on some level I enjoy and I appreciate why he

899
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: did it. But this was the era where famously David Geffen,

900
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: who owned Neil Young's record label, sued Neil Young for

901
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: not making Neil Young sounding music, you know, which is

902
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: one of the greatest and most bizarre lawsuits in rock history.

903
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: But in a way you could say, like, I understand

904
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: David Geffen's point of view to a degree, like I

905
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 1: don't think he should have sued Neil Young, but it

906
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: is true that like Neil Young did not seem quite

907
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: like himself, and I think that is why he probably

908
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 1: ended up hooking up with CSN again. You know, I

909
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 1: just wonder like, up on some level he felt like, well,

910
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: when I joined these guys in nineteen seventy, it really

911
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: helped my career, so maybe he can help my career

912
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: again here in the late eighties. I mean, do you

913
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: think there's any validity to that? That's really interesting. I

914
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 1: mean the story that he kind of puts out there

915
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: is that when C S N Y had like a

916
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 1: one off reunion at Live Aid, David Crosby was in

917
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: such rough shape and he said, you know it crossed.

918
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: If you can get things back together again, I'll join

919
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 1: you again for a new album. And at that point,

920
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: you know, Crosby, it looked unlikely that he would live

921
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: through the rest of the decade, so it probably thought

922
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: it would never actually happen. And then in eight six, uh,

923
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: he he does get clean in prison, he gets clean

924
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: and gets released. Neo kind of made it seem like, oh, well,

925
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: I had to make this new album with the other

926
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 1: guys because I said I would. You know, It's like

927
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: it's sort of be true to my word, but you

928
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: could tell just by listening to it that his heart

929
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: wasn't in it. This is American dream in uh. I

930
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: think it was seven. It is a horrendous album. It's

931
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: a terrible album, and like what's weird to me is

932
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 1: like I think some of the songs are okay, but

933
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: like the sound of it is awful. Like the production

934
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: is is really bad, and like Neil Young is to

935
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 1: blame for that, because you know, he insisted on using

936
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: his guy at the time, this guy Nico Bullis, who

937
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: was like this young producer. And I don't know the

938
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: story exactly with David Briggs at that point. If he

939
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: wasn't it seemed like there was some sort of separation

940
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,800
Speaker 1: going on with Briggs, who really was the guy working

941
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 1: on all the great Neil Young records. Yeah, and and really,

942
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: I mean Briggs passed away. I think it was and

943
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: I feel like the Youngest music has not been the

944
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: same since since Briggs passed away. But you know, I

945
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 1: think they recorded it at his ranch too, like didn't

946
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: they so like they all came to him, so it's like, oh, great,

947
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: like Neil Young is taking charge of the sound. This

948
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: is gonna be a little more raw, it's gonna sound

949
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,800
Speaker 1: more real, and it's like this sterile eighties sounding record.

950
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: And uh, it's really weird because you alluded to this earlier,

951
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: Like Neil Young around this time. He ended up putting

952
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: out Freedom that came out in eighty nine, also working

953
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: with Nico Bolis, and that ends up being really like

954
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 1: his comeback record, and it's like heralds the beginning of

955
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: this great period that he had in the nineties of

956
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: like this artistic rebirth. Like the nineties is like one

957
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: of my favorite Neil Young decades. I think there's some

958
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: really great records that came out at that time, and

959
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: Freedom was the beginning of that, and it's like, why

960
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: was Freedom so good an American Dreams so bad? It's like,

961
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: was he intentionally sabotaging them? Like was this some weird thing?

962
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that's true, but I don't understand,

963
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: like how those results could be so different America dreamata

964
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: fucking pan flute on its steven it was Jesus, how

965
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: can you allow that to happen? How do you allow that?

966
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: It's like you're bringing zam Fear in here to play

967
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: some flute. I mean yeah, I mean, like you said, Freedom, Ragged, Glory,

968
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: Harvest Moon, the nineties run is incredible and CSNY pretty

969
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 1: much you know, backburner for him, I mean. And then

970
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: at the end of the decade they made the last,

971
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 1: the last album that CSNY ever made together, Looking Forward,

972
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: and it was basically a crossby Stilson Nash record that

973
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: Neil added three acoustic songs to that you know, weren't

974
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: three of his best in my opinion, Slow Polk and

975
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: out of Control and the title track, which again interesting,

976
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: they go with the Neil song for the title track.

977
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: Every project from that he was a part of CSN,

978
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,479
Speaker 1: from you know, Human Highway Sessions onward we're all named

979
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: after a Neil song, which I always think is really interesting. Well,

980
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: and you know, we talked about this before about how

981
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: the other guys in the band, like the CSN guys,

982
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: were terrified of Neil Young, I think at this point,

983
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: and we talked about the power of no, and at

984
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: this point it was almost like it was like the

985
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 1: power of the threat of no. You know, they didn't

986
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: want to alienate him, They didn't want to do anything

987
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: that would scare him away. So like when you read

988
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: about the tours that they started doing, you know you

989
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 1: mentioned the tour they did in two thousand. When was

990
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,960
Speaker 1: that the c s N Y two K tour, which

991
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: is a very cute but yeah, they did like I

992
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: think three tours in the odds, and it just sounds

993
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: like Neil Young was the boss of those tours, like

994
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 1: he's the one that really would determine the format. Of course,

995
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: there was a Living with War tour where he was

996
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,479
Speaker 1: like really in control of that. But I remember reading

997
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: this story. I can't remember what tour it was from

998
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: the odds, but there was some story about like how

999
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: they're playing a show in St. Paul and after the show,

1000
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: Steven stills like wanted to stay behind and take a

1001
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: shower before leaving the arena, and Neil Young had like

1002
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: like bolted immediately after the show got into like a

1003
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 1: luxury suv. It went to the airport, and like he said,

1004
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: he let the crew know. It's like everyone has to

1005
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: leave immediately, like I don't want to hang around. So

1006
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: like Steven still didn't take a shower. He left, and

1007
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: he's like, all right, boss, Neil Young. It's just like

1008
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: it's like it's like I just wonder, like when did

1009
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: Stephen get to take his shower? Like did you just

1010
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: have to stink for like hours before he could take

1011
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 1: a shower. This also has to do not just like

1012
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: with sort of Neil young stubbornness or his ability to

1013
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: sort of back out of things. There was also money.

1014
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: I mean he was again I think in the nineties,

1015
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: you know, because of all the great records he was

1016
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 1: putting out and also you know, working with like Pearl

1017
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 1: jam and being very again smart about positioning himself as

1018
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: like a really kind of youthful elder statesman. Like he

1019
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: was again like I think one of the only like

1020
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: sixties people that really appealed to like the younger generation,

1021
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: like like gen xers who would maybe like turn up

1022
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: their nose at Woodstock normally like they love Neil Young.

1023
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: It just you know, brought him back to being a

1024
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: huge star. And I remember reading David Brown's book, which

1025
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: we've talked about in this series quite a bit, which

1026
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: I recommend everyone reads, called CROSSI stills in Nash and Young.

1027
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: There's some and they're talking about how the difference between

1028
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: playing with Neil and CSN doing their own show is

1029
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: like the difference between like sixty grand a night and

1030
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 1: six grand a night, you know, because they're playing they're

1031
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: playing arenas with Neil and they're playing theaters without him,

1032
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: so you know, there was also a huge financial imperative

1033
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: to keep Neil Young happy. The Living with Young tour

1034
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 1: always really fascinating me too, because it seemed like they

1035
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 1: were knowingly kind of like you know, almost like his

1036
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 1: opening act in a way, or like his his sidemen.

1037
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: I think Crosby were for doom Is a benevolent dictator

1038
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,799
Speaker 1: on that tour because it was very much like the

1039
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: Neil Young show from it was almost like he was

1040
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 1: weaponizing nostalgia. He got the guys together so that he

1041
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: could get all these people that loved all their music,

1042
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, the Laurel Canyon diddies in the late sixties

1043
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: and the Woodstock era stuff, and then kind of cast

1044
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: that in stark relief to the you know, George Bush

1045
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: era post nine eleven world that we were living in.

1046
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: It was almost like he was trolling their csn Y fans,

1047
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: was kind of my impression of it. Yeah, in a way,

1048
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. I mean, I think on the

1049
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: flip side of that, you could see, like if you

1050
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: watch there's a there's a concert documentary about that tour

1051
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: called csn Y Deja Vu that Neil Young directed under

1052
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: the name Bernard Shaky, and how you know, there's a

1053
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: famous scene like where they're playing the Living with War songs.

1054
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: I think it's in Atlanta, and the crowd just goes

1055
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: like nuts in a bad way, Like they're yelling at

1056
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: the at the band. They're booing uh. And this the

1057
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: song is called Let's Impete the President. Yeah, they're not

1058
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: digging that song. And like when you read David Brown's book,

1059
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: it talks about like how rattled Neil Young was by that,

1060
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: Like it was really like he I don't think he

1061
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: was expecting that kind of reaction necessarily that strong of

1062
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: a negative reaction. And you know, as much as he

1063
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: was like dogging the other guys in that band over

1064
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 1: the years, I think you can see at that time

1065
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: that in a way he was leaning on those guys

1066
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: to support him during that I think it's very telling

1067
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 1: that he didn't tour that record on his own. I

1068
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 1: think in some way he wanted other guys up there

1069
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: with him that would take the heat with him, you know.

1070
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: And it says something about the relationship with these guys, like,

1071
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: you know, we've gone over all the craziness that's going

1072
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: on with them, but there is this sort of weird

1073
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: loyalty that existed for a long time where they would

1074
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: support each other in situations like that. Even Neil Young,

1075
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: who was very cynical about this band like he I think,

1076
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: was relying on that on that tour. That's interesting. I

1077
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 1: always thought that it was basically he tapped the other

1078
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: guys because he knew that would appeal to a certain

1079
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,200
Speaker 1: demographic of a certain age who you know, presumably shared

1080
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: a similar you know, mindset in the late sixties of

1081
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: peace love, woodstock, hippie dumb kind of thing and what

1082
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: kind of rub their noses in maybe what how far

1083
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,359
Speaker 1: their current beliefs are, you know, in two thousand five,

1084
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: two thousand six Bush era Iraq War type you know, supporters,

1085
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 1: and kind of make them confront who they were with

1086
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: who they were now. But you're right, I mean, it's

1087
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 1: funny to think that he might actually feel as though

1088
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: he needed somebody to, uh, to bear the run of

1089
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: all that abuse too well. And that thing you just said,

1090
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's true too. As we've said many times

1091
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: about Neil Young, he's a man of paradoxes. I'm sure

1092
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: he wanted to provoke that audience and also maybe bask

1093
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 1: in the comfort of being with this old bandmates. I

1094
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: still think it's interesting that it's so it's sort of

1095
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: fitting that, you know, for all of the fights that

1096
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: Neil and Stephen had for you know, fifty years, it

1097
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 1: was Crosby who ended up detonating the group, seemingly for good.

1098
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, it seems like that, And you know,

1099
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: we talked about it in our Crosby episode the whole

1100
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: Darrell Hannah incident. Poisonous predator, A poisonous predator, and it

1101
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,760
Speaker 1: sounds like, I mean, it sounds like he's like apologized

1102
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 1: for that. I think he's done it publicly. It sounds

1103
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: like he called Neil young at some point and apologize

1104
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: for it. But you know that piste off Neil, and

1105
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 1: it feels like Crosby piste off everybody like with that

1106
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: and other things over the years, and you know, you

1107
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: just wonder like at some point if the usefulness of

1108
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 1: this brand just kind of like runs out of gas

1109
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, Like you know, we've talked

1110
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 1: about how I think for all of these guys, the

1111
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 1: CSN and CSNY banner, it would be like a shelter

1112
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 1: that they could go to, and you know, it was

1113
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 1: a financial shelter, it was like an emotional support shelter.

1114
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: You know. It was almost like a well to use.

1115
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: I keep using different metaphors here. I said a shelter.

1116
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, a well now that you could dip

1117
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: into and replenish yourself and then go back out in

1118
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: the world. And maybe that just maybe the well ran

1119
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: dry eventually and this was the sign of that. Yeah. Maybe.

1120
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I I do love the most heartwarming part.

1121
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 1: I think this whole story is the sort of rekindled

1122
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: relationship between Neil and Stephen and Neil, you know, for

1123
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: all of his his quirks and his mercurial nature, I

1124
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: think understands Stephen better than anyone. I mean, you know,

1125
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: I think Noel Gallagher once said of Liam, you know,

1126
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 1: I can play him like a slightly disused arcade game.

1127
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 1: And I think Neil can play Stephen like a slightly

1128
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: disused arcade game in ways that benefits himself. But he

1129
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: also I think genuinely loves him. There's a great quote

1130
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,359
Speaker 1: that Neil Gabe, I think it was in the Jimmy

1131
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 1: McDonald book, where he probably the most insightful, uh statement

1132
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: I've ever seen about Steven Stills. He said, you know,

1133
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: he's a real sensitive guy. Sensitive he had to get

1134
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: himself together, and how he gets himself together as he

1135
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: tries to take over the world. But I'll tell you

1136
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: he's just nervous. I could see that. You take away

1137
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 1: all the insecurity and all the things that it made

1138
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: Stephen do, some of the stuff he's done over the years,

1139
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 1: and there's a wonderful human being who's right there. I

1140
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: always see the real Stephen in there, and he's a

1141
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: really great guy. What strikes me listening to that quote

1142
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: is how he emphasizes how sensitive Steven Stills is because again,

1143
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 1: I think if you look at those guys superficially, you

1144
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 1: think Steven Stills is the gruff bully and Neil Young

1145
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: is like the sensitive eccentric. And not that Neil Young

1146
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 1: as a bully, but he is a lot tougher. I

1147
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: think then, you know, maybe his persona suggests, you know,

1148
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,479
Speaker 1: like that guy. I think again was along with being

1149
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: you know, this guy who's always gonna follow his muse

1150
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: and b Art first, I just think he's such a

1151
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: genius and how he's maneuvered his career, you know, in

1152
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: the same way that people like Bob Dylan are you know,

1153
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: or Springsteen, anyone who's stuck around that long. You really

1154
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 1: do have to have the ability to be lots of

1155
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: different things at once, and I think that's something that

1156
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: we've seen over and over again with Neil Young. We're

1157
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break and get a word from

1158
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 1: our sponsor before we get to more rivals. So this

1159
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 1: is the part of the show where we give the

1160
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: pro side of each part of the rivalry. We'll talk

1161
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: about the pro Neil Young side first. I mean, look,

1162
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:39,439
Speaker 1: do we have to say anything more than Neil Young.

1163
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:41,959
Speaker 1: Is Neil Young. I mean, it's Neil Young, for crying

1164
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: out loud. He's like one of the greats of all time.

1165
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: And as much as I loved the other guys and

1166
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,439
Speaker 1: Crossy Skills in Nash, there's no question that Neil Young

1167
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: towers over them artistically. I mean, he towers over most

1168
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: people in rock history artistically. And I think what he

1169
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: brought to this band was, you know, a certain relevance

1170
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 1: I think that they did not have after say five.

1171
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's like if if he was involved in

1172
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,720
Speaker 1: this band in the nineties or two thousands, two thousand

1173
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: tents as like Spotty, as like their output could be,

1174
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: You're more likely to pay attention if Neil Young is

1175
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: on board. It's like the possibility that it could be great.

1176
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: Even though you're more likely to get like American dream

1177
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: or looking forward like, you still feel like, oh, it

1178
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 1: could be great if Neil Young is involved. That that

1179
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 1: is the thing that he that he brings to this band.

1180
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: And uh, I just go back to to that, that

1181
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 1: thing about after the Goal, Russian and Harvest. I'm just

1182
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: blown away now even to this day, that he was

1183
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: able to take what this band did and do it

1184
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: on his own and prove that I can do it

1185
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: on my own better than you guys can do it,

1186
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: So we don't really need you. People are just gonna

1187
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 1: want me, and I think that's proven to be true

1188
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: over the last fifty years. Like Neil Young, it's like,

1189
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 1: if you think of beautiful songs with harmonies, yeah, you

1190
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 1: think of CSN, but you maybe think of Neil Young first,

1191
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: and you're gonna put on Harvest before you put on

1192
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,040
Speaker 1: a CSN record, And you know, that's the genius of

1193
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: Neil Young. It's really crazy to think that his entire

1194
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 1: recorded legacy with CSN Y really is just rests on

1195
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: three songs, Country Girl, Helpless in Ohio. You know, nobody

1196
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: ever mentions anything in American Dream and Looking Forward, and

1197
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: if they do, they do it in a you know,

1198
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 1: with an ASTERIXK next to it. Um. It's amazing that

1199
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: sort of like you said, the reputation that he gave

1200
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: that band just on the strength of those three songs alone,

1201
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 1: and you said nineteen seventy five was when he started

1202
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,760
Speaker 1: giving him relevance. I would almost argue even earlier that

1203
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: sort of he was what the band needed as sort

1204
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: of the woodstock age transitioned into the Watergate era. I

1205
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 1: think it was, you know, Ohio was I think that

1206
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 1: transitional point for them. And there was a great I

1207
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: think it was Elliot Roberts quote. It said, you know,

1208
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: he gave the band balls. Neil Young's got balls dripping

1209
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: down his back, his shoulders, his legs, everywhere. He's got

1210
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: balls to spare. And I think, you know, rather than

1211
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: being sort of like a hippie Everly Brothers Birds Fusion

1212
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: Harmony group, I think, yeah, I did give him that

1213
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: weightiness that that helped him endure balls dripping down his back.

1214
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how I feel about that drippy balls

1215
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: Neil Young as he's known. So if we go to

1216
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: the pro CSN side or the anti Neil Young side,

1217
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, I would say again, I think Neil Young,

1218
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: you know, and not to his credit, really, I think

1219
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: he often was like openly disrespectful to the other guys

1220
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: in CSN, and I feel like that's kind of crappy

1221
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,479
Speaker 1: on his behalf. Because again, as we've established, I really

1222
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: feel like early in his career joining this band was

1223
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 1: a pivotal moment for him becoming a big star. If

1224
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 1: he hadn't have had that platform early on, I wonder

1225
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: if he would have remained more of a cult hero

1226
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: of like seventies l A rock than like the big

1227
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: star that we know and love today. So I think

1228
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 1: for that reason, you know, I would hope that he

1229
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,439
Speaker 1: would have a little more reverence for like what those

1230
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: guys did, uh for his career and like the kind

1231
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 1: of audience I guess that I was able to bring

1232
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: into their um And I would just say in general too,

1233
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 1: you know, I know I had this this bias for

1234
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 1: a long time that like I thought Neil Young was

1235
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: was the greatest, and that the other three guys, the

1236
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 1: CSN guys were lame and I didn't care about what

1237
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 1: they did and I and for a long time I

1238
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: didn't even pay attention to their work. And when I

1239
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: finally dug in, I was really kind of blown away

1240
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: by like all the great music that Crosby, Stills and

1241
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: Nash made on their own and made it different permutations, uh,

1242
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: you know, throughout the years. And I guess I hope

1243
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: that if you are one of those people that don't

1244
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: really take the CSN part of CSNY seriously, that you

1245
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: were inspired by this series to check those guys out,

1246
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: because yeah, they're not as good as Neil Young, but

1247
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 1: I think that they made a lot of great music

1248
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: on their own, and they deserved to stand on stage

1249
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: with Neil Young and all those great shows. You can't

1250
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 1: say about many people. Yeah, exactly, No, I I echo that.

1251
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: I think that still sort of in the and the

1252
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: Lennon McCartney dichotomy that I attend to view the world through,

1253
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: I think Stills was the McCartney figure, that kind of workaholic,

1254
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: who taskmaster, who could sort of smooth out Neil's rough

1255
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: edges and and make things more commercial than ordinarily be.

1256
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: I think that was kind of in the very very

1257
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:19,919
Speaker 1: early days, uh maybe still thought that he could sort

1258
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: of package Neil in the way that he wasn't able

1259
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: to really do in UM in Buffalo Springfield. Obviously that

1260
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: didn't work out, but I would like to think that,

1261
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: like you said, maybe Neil learned a thing or two

1262
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: by watching Stills up close doing the working on Deja

1263
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: Voo together, which he then could put into uh into

1264
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: after the gold Rush and Harvest And also, like you said,

1265
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills, Nation and Young was a huge platform for him.

1266
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: And I think that if he wasn't in that group.

1267
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:47,600
Speaker 1: He probably would have been like, you know, a Gene

1268
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: Clark figure or Graham Parsons, like an l a fringe

1269
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: rock early seventies guy who you know, made strong records,

1270
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: but you know it would have been like his his

1271
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: solo debut, which you know, no one really talks about now,

1272
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,919
Speaker 1: even though I love UM. Yeah, I think that the

1273
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 1: the appropriate reverence for his fellow bandmates is probably where

1274
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: my only real fault with him at this point. I

1275
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: think that he has been disrespectful for him over the years,

1276
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: either interpersonally and publicly, which again makes me happier that

1277
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: at least he instills have seemed to patch things up now.

1278
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: So when we look at all these guys together, I mean, look,

1279
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: as we've shown, I think in this series, this band

1280
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: is like so full of drama and intrigue, and you

1281
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: don't get that without this unique mix of personalities and talents.

1282
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: You know, like CSN was already combustible on its own,

1283
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 1: but then you add why to the mix and it

1284
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: just like just blew everything sky high. And I know,

1285
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: for me personally, it's been a blast digging into the

1286
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: history of this band, and I'm just so glad that

1287
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 1: we've had the music and the madness. Absolutely. Sometimes at

1288
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,080
Speaker 1: the end of these episodes, we try to figure out

1289
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 1: whether these artists should be together or shouldn't be together.

1290
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: And you know, in this case, I think I'm torn.

1291
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: As much as I I love the music they made together.

1292
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think maybe they should be a part, but

1293
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: I love the music just too much. Maybe maybe I'm

1294
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,840
Speaker 1: the Steven Stills in this scenario. I just I can't

1295
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 1: quit them. I don't want them to quit each other. Well,

1296
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: it's been fun getting wasted on the way with you,

1297
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,520
Speaker 1: Jordan's on this journey, but like I feel that it's

1298
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: probably time for us to talk about a different rivalry

1299
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 1: other than what exists in the CS and Y verse.

1300
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: So next week we're gonna be heading out out of

1301
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: this place and going to a different rivalry and we

1302
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: can't wait to do it. So thank you again for

1303
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,440
Speaker 1: listening to this episode. We'll have more beefs and rivalries

1304
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: and long swimming resentments next week. Rivals is a production

1305
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. The executive producers are Shawn Tyitone

1306
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: and Noel Brown. The supervising producers are Taylor Chicoin and

1307
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: Tristan McNeil. The producers Joel hat Stat, I'm Jordan Run Talk.

1308
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 1: I'm Stephen Hyden. If you like what you heard, please

1309
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts for

1310
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1311
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 1: or ever you listen to your favorite shows