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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How many times have you said, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'll just call Uber, I'll just call a lift, no problem,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to ride, and you've got your app,

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Speaker 1: You're all set. How many times have I sent my

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Speaker 1: mother to an appointment, say the hair salon here or there,

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Speaker 1: in an Uber or lift? How many times I'll ride share?

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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this. This is

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Speaker 1: our cut one mmahog KMOV four. It opened the back

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Speaker 1: door and was on top of me. Christine Giangara recounts

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Speaker 1: that horrific flashback from the night of June twenty second,

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. The nurse was out at a bar downtown

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Speaker 1: for a bachelorette party. Her nightmare unfolded after her friend

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Speaker 1: called her a lift. I chose to use an app

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Speaker 1: design to safely transport passengers, and ultimately I was punished

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Speaker 1: for this decision. This is what we know. A nurse

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Speaker 1: claims she was raped by a lift driver and files

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit against the ride sharing company, saying they sent

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Speaker 1: her a predator. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You were

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Speaker 1: just hearing the rape victim describe what happened. Is it

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Speaker 1: the first time? According to her she was sent a

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Speaker 1: predator to pick her up with no idea who was

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Speaker 1: behind the wheel. I want you to hear the tone

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Speaker 1: in her voice as she speaks, because you played that

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Speaker 1: one more time. Plays Jackie hourcut one opened back dowor

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Speaker 1: and was on top of me. Christine Giangara recounts that

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Speaker 1: horrific flashback from the night of June twenty second, twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 1: The nurse was out at a bar downtown for a

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Speaker 1: bachelorette party. Her nightmare unfolded after her friend called her

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Speaker 1: a lift. I shows to use an app design to

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Speaker 1: safely transport passengers, and ultimately I was punished for this decision. Now, Jake,

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut five. This is Claire kellett a

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Speaker 1: k M A Z four Listen. Thirty year old Kristin

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Speaker 1: Jiangara alleges she was kidnapped and raped by a lift

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Speaker 1: driver in the backseat of his car in downtown Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis in June of twenty nineteen. Today, her attorney said

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Speaker 1: they amended the lawsuit because he says lift knew the

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Speaker 1: driver was a convicted felon. Now Here's dead driver Larry

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Speaker 1: Ward of Saint Peter's. It was in December that he

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Speaker 1: was charged with raping and kidnapping Jiangara after she after

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Speaker 1: he picked her up in his ride share car. Jangara's

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Speaker 1: attorney says in twenty seventeen, Lyft denied Ward's application to

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Speaker 1: become a driver because he didn't pass the background check

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Speaker 1: because of a felony conviction. In twenty eighteen, her attorney says,

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Speaker 1: Lyft changed background check companies to Checker, and when Ward

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Speaker 1: reapplied to lift that year, Jeane Gary's attorney says he

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Speaker 1: passed the background check and was cleared to drive, so

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Speaker 1: they have also added Checker to their lawsuit. Let me

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Speaker 1: understand this. Did the ride share company actually hire a

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Speaker 1: convicted felon to go pick up a woman alone? Am

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Speaker 1: I hearing this correctly? With me and all Star panel

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Speaker 1: to make sense of what we're hearing? Isn't true? Is

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Speaker 1: it false? James Shelnutt, twifty seven years Metro major case

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Speaker 1: including swat now lawyer at shelnut Law from dot com,

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Speaker 1: Karen start right now a psychologists joining us from Manhattan

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Speaker 1: at Karen Psyche also at Karen dot com. Joseph Scott,

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Speaker 1: Organ Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath

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Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon and star of a brand new

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Speaker 1: hit series on iHeart Body Bags. Dan Corsentino a former

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Speaker 1: police chief, former sheriff, also US Homeland Security Senior Advisory

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Speaker 1: Board at Dancorcentino dot com. Spencer Corson, Founder President of

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Speaker 1: Course in Security Group. You can also find his book

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Speaker 1: The Safety Trap online. Prefers to Emmy Award winning investigative

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Speaker 1: reporter Christy Missouri, What happened? Christie? Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. The night that Giancara got a lift, as mentioned,

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Speaker 1: she was out celebrating a bachelorette party and took the

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Speaker 1: safe way home, or what she thought was going to

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Speaker 1: be the safe way home. Larry Ward picks her up.

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Speaker 1: She's just a little intoxicated and dozes off in the

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Speaker 1: back seat during the ride. The next thing she knows

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Speaker 1: he's on top of her. Now she goes further to

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Speaker 1: state Larry Ward deviated from the route to her house,

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Speaker 1: turned off his right share location software before he got

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Speaker 1: into the vackseat and before he took her home. So

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Speaker 1: prosecutors are saying she was intoxicated, unable to pay, sent

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Speaker 1: to sex, but even more so about the atrocity. They

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Speaker 1: do say that Lyft knew this man had an extensive

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Speaker 1: criminal history based on the fact that when this woman

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Speaker 1: went in for a check at an area hospital, they

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Speaker 1: got a hit on Ward's DNA with the rape kit.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by that they got a hit

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Speaker 1: on his DNA, Well, they did the rape kit and

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Speaker 1: the DNA sample that was taken matched towards. They had

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Speaker 1: his DNA on file because of a previous felony conviction.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what the previous felony conviction was for?

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Speaker 1: It was? It was for drug dealing an assault. He

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Speaker 1: was sentenced to nine years. Guys, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: a young woman just thirty years old who takes a

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Speaker 1: lift ride home and I want you to take a

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Speaker 1: listen to what she says happened on that ride. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to hour cut two from our friends at

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Speaker 1: KMOV four. This lawsuit says the driver, fifty three year

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Speaker 1: old Larry Ward, picked her up from tin roof at night.

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Speaker 1: Jean Gara says she fell asleep in the back seat

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Speaker 1: and woke up to Ward on top of her. The

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Speaker 1: jumpsuit was althow on my waist and he was on

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Speaker 1: top of me, and he smiled. What was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be a seven minute ride turned into almost an hour.

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Speaker 1: Cored documents say Ward turned the app off for thirty

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Speaker 1: five minutes while he drove to a secluded street and

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Speaker 1: raped her. They were able to track his vehicle based

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Speaker 1: on local cameras. Okay, what does that mean to you,

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Speaker 1: Spencer Corson. They were able to track his location based

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Speaker 1: on local cameras well. That could be a multiple thing.

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Speaker 1: That could have been individual ring cameras, that could have

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Speaker 1: been traffic cameras. It could have been anti crime cameras

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Speaker 1: which may have been installed on street lights or light

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Speaker 1: poles around the city. But clearly this man had an

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Speaker 1: intend to do harm and was looking to subvert the

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Speaker 1: authorities in those actions. Yeah, turning off his rice shirt location,

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Speaker 1: changing the settings so no one would see where he

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Speaker 1: was at the time, you know. To you, Dan Corcentino,

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Speaker 1: former police chief joining us, it reminds me very much.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're familiar with the missing Connecticut Mamma fied

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Dulos, whose husband Photus Dulos, and his girlfriend His

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Speaker 1: mistress went around the night of her disappearance all over town,

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Speaker 1: throwing away bloody clothes, bloody rags, things from the crime

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Speaker 1: scene where she was murdered. It was all caught on video,

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Speaker 1: but that wasn't the end of it. They police used

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Speaker 1: all sorts of cameras, ring cameras, red light cameras. Even

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Speaker 1: this really impressed me, Dan Corsentino. When a public bus

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Speaker 1: opened the doors, you see photus Dulo's driving. By I

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Speaker 1: mean they retraced his entire route the night his wife

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Speaker 1: was murdered, through all of these public cameras, and they

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Speaker 1: traced him all the way to a detailing shop for

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Speaker 1: he goes and gets the car that later revealed her

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Speaker 1: blood and hair in it. Totally detailed Clint trying to

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Speaker 1: get rid of evidence. So it was amazing the way

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Speaker 1: they cobbled together all these bits and pieces from cameras

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Speaker 1: and came up with the entire route of him trying

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Speaker 1: to destroy evidence. What about that, Dan Corsentino, that's a

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Speaker 1: pretty good police work. Well what's next one police work?

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Speaker 1: First of all, you have a suspect that goes dark

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Speaker 1: and he has with intense committed crime, which he did,

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Speaker 1: there's no question about that. But the police work in

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Speaker 1: the forensics that we're involved, not only with the cameras

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Speaker 1: in the tracking system, but probably they were able to

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Speaker 1: get into eventually the brains of the vehicle, the hard box,

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Speaker 1: if you will, and they were able to extract the

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Speaker 1: evidence of his route, which was the neil in the

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Speaker 1: coffin in this case, so to speak. Time stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we were talking about a young woman

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Speaker 1: just thirty years old who takes a lift ride home.

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Speaker 1: According to her, she was sent a predator to pick

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Speaker 1: her up with no idea who was behind the wheel.

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Speaker 1: Ain't know. James shell Nutt. Guys, shell nut not just

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Speaker 1: a lawyer twenty seven years and swat in a major case.

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Speaker 1: And swat James shell Nutt. You and I talked about

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Speaker 1: a recent case where a beautiful young woman goes for

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Speaker 1: a walk with her dog. Yes, so it was at night.

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Speaker 1: Don't blame the victim, don't start with me. When she

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Speaker 1: gets soft work. So she takes the doll for a

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Speaker 1: walk in Piedmont part it's like Central Park in New York. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what that is. And she ends up getting

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Speaker 1: brutally murdered and her dog is murdered as well. And

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Speaker 1: that's when we find out that all of these security

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Speaker 1: cameras in Pedmont Park. Of all places, none of them

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Speaker 1: have works. It's about twenty and eighteen, and the city

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Speaker 1: knew they weren't working. The software was outmoded and it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't work anymore. So the point is shell Nutt, We're

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Speaker 1: never gonna get photographic evidence of that or video evidence

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Speaker 1: of that, just like Sean Andrew Levy. That's when it

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Speaker 1: came to my attention for the first time. Seandre Levy

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Speaker 1: goes out, we think for a jog, but guess what.

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Speaker 1: The building's video surveillance taped over every seventy two hours,

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Speaker 1: So we don't know if she left with her killer,

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Speaker 1: if she left with a group, if she was dressed

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Speaker 1: in an evening dress, if she was dressed to go

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Speaker 1: to work, if she was dragging a suitcase behind her,

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Speaker 1: or was she dressed to go jogging, And it really

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Speaker 1: stymied the investigation. That case went on sawt for years

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Speaker 1: until somebody happened to stumble upon her bones at Rock

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Speaker 1: Creek Park. My point is here they've managed to cobble

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Speaker 1: together all of this. How important is it that cameras

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Speaker 1: are in working order? It's critical. I mean, that's why

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Speaker 1: that they're in the first place. There's a need for them.

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Speaker 1: I mean, for them not to be working creates a

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Speaker 1: danger in and of itself, and we see it over

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Speaker 1: and over and over, and I think at some point

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Speaker 1: you're going to start seeing lawsuits against municipalities and of

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Speaker 1: that don't keep their camera their security cams working. I

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Speaker 1: guarantee you it's going to happen. Guys, we are talking

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Speaker 1: about a really beautiful thirty year old woman who gets

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Speaker 1: a lift on the way home from a bacherette party

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Speaker 1: and says she was brutally rape And this is super creepy.

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, did you hear what she says? She wakes

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Speaker 1: kind of comes to she'd been asleep in the back seat.

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Speaker 1: She wakes up, her jumpsuit was pulled below her waist.

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Speaker 1: This guy was on top of her, raping her, and

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Speaker 1: he smiled. What did he think he was having a date? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think he smiled, Nancy, because he's sinister and was

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Speaker 1: enjoying what he was doing. And if you think about

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Speaker 1: what this experience was like for her, I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: taken lift, haven't you. And she's in the car and she's,

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Speaker 1: you know, needing to sleep, feeling a little intoxicated, but

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Speaker 1: believing that she's safe. That's the key point here. She

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Speaker 1: feels like she's safe. She assumes that this is a

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Speaker 1: good person who's been checked out, and in stact, he's

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Speaker 1: a criminal and she wakes up to this horror. Due you,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State UNIVERSITYPS. I love

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Speaker 1: your new podcast, Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the rape kit because you heard Christie

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Speaker 1: missourik accurately say they got a hit. Now, when I said,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean by hit? She meant that the

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Speaker 1: DNA taken from the rape kit from the victim, Kristen Jangara,

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Speaker 1: matched to the defendant, the lift driver in this case,

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Speaker 1: Larry Ward, I was thinking of another kind of hit,

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Speaker 1: as in, you know, a hit on codus. Explain what

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about and how you can find out from

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Speaker 1: a rape kit somebody's criminal history. Yeah, if someone is

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Speaker 1: a violent offender, and many times it has to do

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Speaker 1: with an individual's clivity for say, sexual offenses where they're

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Speaker 1: assaulting people. This sort of thing where they are identified

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Speaker 1: as a risk and they are so convicted they will

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Speaker 1: have to submit a sample to a system much like CODIS.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, there's also status, which is a state

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Speaker 1: to state and lettuce which goes in a local system

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Speaker 1: as well. Right, you're saying the DNA goes in because

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Speaker 1: you've got aphis for fingerprints, Right, you've got codas for DNA.

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Speaker 1: There's even a data bank for ballistics. Say there's a shooting,

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Speaker 1: I find a bullet on the scene, I take it.

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Speaker 1: I enter the striation marks and the marks on the

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Speaker 1: bullet that it obtains hurling down the gun. There's only

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Speaker 1: one like it. It's like a fingerprint to us as

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Speaker 1: it relates to a bullet. You put it into the

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Speaker 1: bullet data bank and you get a match if that

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Speaker 1: gun has been used in another crime. Yeah, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: The AT manages that system, and then the FBI actually

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Speaker 1: manages the code of system. So you have these sexual

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Speaker 1: offenders with very specific identifiers based upon their DNA fingerprint.

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Speaker 1: If you will, remember, Nancy, we're talking about something that

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Speaker 1: goes you know, when we think about say old forensic

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Speaker 1: urology where we're looking at blood types. The most rare

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Speaker 1: blood type, of course, was ABNAG and we're talking I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe one in every two hundred forty nine

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Speaker 1: people would have that. Now you take something out with

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Speaker 1: DNA and you're talking about sometimes they talk about terms

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Speaker 1: of billions and trillions and even quadrillions of the chances

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Speaker 1: that this would be anybody other than the individual identified.

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Speaker 1: This guy was actually in the system. So when they

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Speaker 1: did the rape kit, which means they had to do

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Speaker 1: swabs and pubic combings and all those sorts of things,

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Speaker 1: they were tying a man at whoa wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: everybody out there, especially you ladies, let's just did you

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Speaker 1: hear what Jo Scott Morgan just said it? And he's right.

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Speaker 1: A pubic combing. You want to explain what that is,

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Speaker 1: what a rape victim has to go through, Joe Scott don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm a j D not a DDS. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's it's humiliating for the women. You think about the

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Speaker 1: swabbings that go on where they actually take the fluid

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Speaker 1: swabs to come out of the vagina and the anus,

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Speaker 1: this sort of thing. But they also do calming right there,

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Speaker 1: the swabbings that come from the vagina and the anus.

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Speaker 1: In other words, they take a Q chip about that

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Speaker 1: long and it is inserted into your vagina and your

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Speaker 1: rear end. Okay, Now everybody in this set, now they're

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Speaker 1: cringing when you said it. It didn't really bring it home.

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Speaker 1: That's what that is. That's what a rape kid is.

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Speaker 1: It's not fun. Then you have a pubic combing. Do

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Speaker 1: I have to Q and A with myself, Joe Scott?

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Speaker 1: Do you think? Oh? Absolutely, I was gonna tell you

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Speaker 1: what a fine tooth comb was. And so these little

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Speaker 1: tiny combs are used to extract hairs from the pubic area.

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Speaker 1: And what will happen when you have this intimate contact

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Speaker 1: that goes on in a rape and an assault like this.

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Speaker 1: The pubic areas brush against one another and we slough hair.

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Speaker 1: So the perpetrator commingles their hair with the poor victim.

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Speaker 1: Here that hair is actually lifted with a combing kit,

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Speaker 1: and that's submitted as well. Jasy. When you say it

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Speaker 1: like that, I learned on my very first jewry trial,

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Speaker 1: don't put perfume on the pig. They take a very

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Speaker 1: fine toothed comb. You ever heard that, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go through it with a fine tooth comb. We've all

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Speaker 1: heard that, right. That means the teeth of the comb

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Speaker 1: are very so close to each other. And then they

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Speaker 1: take that comb and they comb your whole pubic area

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Speaker 1: everything to see if they can lift a hear from

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Speaker 1: the defendant off of you. Now okay, now I'm seeing grimacing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it. That's how you explained that, because

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Speaker 1: that's where the victim has to go through crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. James shell Nutt, I assume that you've

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Speaker 1: either defended or prosecuted a sex assault case, a child

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Speaker 1: molestation or rape case. Have you ever? Okay, the first

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Speaker 1: time I did that, I could hardly spit the words out.

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Speaker 1: It was embarrassing. The victim was embarrassed to have it

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Speaker 1: stated in court. The ladies on the jury were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to say it out loud, but this

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Speaker 1: is a harsh reality of crime. You have to deal

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Speaker 1: with things you don't want to deal with. They're not nice,

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Speaker 1: they're not pretty, they're horrible. But there's a goal and

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Speaker 1: that is a true verdict. So this is what you

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Speaker 1: have to do in order to explain it to a jury.

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Speaker 1: James Shellnon, I'll never forget it. The first time I

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Speaker 1: had to say the F word, the P word, the

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Speaker 1: C word, the every word in front of a jury

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Speaker 1: because I was reading a statement that the defendant had made,

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Speaker 1: and under any other circumstances, I would have washed my

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Speaker 1: own mouth out with soap. But I had to say

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Speaker 1: what he said, and after that one jury trial, I

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Speaker 1: didn't have any problem with it. After that, apparently just

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Speaker 1: got Morgan has not gotten to that level yet. What

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Speaker 1: about it, Shellnon. I don't know about justice Scott, but

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Speaker 1: I will tell you this. I will tell you that

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Speaker 1: the truth of what happens sometimes is extremely ugly. As

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Speaker 1: you point it out, it's about to get uglier, shall not?

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Speaker 1: It's about to get uglier? How many times, Christy Missourich,

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Speaker 1: do we think Larry Ward has attacked women? It's alleged

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Speaker 1: about a dozen some of the cases, and speaking with

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Speaker 1: a susteemed panel, you try to do the right thing

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Speaker 1: and bring justice. He planned out to some cases, and

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Speaker 1: some cases were thrown out of court because the victims

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Speaker 1: wouldn't testify. Did you hear that about twelve times? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: It's also the Suspencer Courson. It's also important to remember

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Speaker 1: that only thirty percent of sexual assaults are reported, so

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Speaker 1: it's likely that numbers three times higher. Hey, Spencer, I

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Speaker 1: want to follow up with you on that First of all,

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Speaker 1: will you say that again, yes, ma'am. For every one

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Speaker 1: thou and incidents of sexual assault, only three hundred are reported,

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Speaker 1: which means about three times as many sexual assaults as

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Speaker 1: we hear about are actually occurring. So if you have

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Speaker 1: someone who is who is convictive of sexually assaulting five people,

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Speaker 1: the reality is they probably sexually assaulted fifteen people throughout

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Speaker 1: their history. And really, Karen Stark, do you blame the

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Speaker 1: rape victims? Karen, start with me. Renowned psychologists joining used

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Speaker 1: in Manhattan. I told you about this case. I helped

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Speaker 1: on a case where the perp had kidnapped, raped, and

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Speaker 1: murdered a young woman going on a jog in Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Julie Love. Is a huge, huge case

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Speaker 1: at the time, years passed until finally the purp's girlfriend

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Speaker 1: was a Friday, who's going to kill her? And she

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Speaker 1: whole police. Her boyfriend was the long story short. We

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Speaker 1: start working up similar transactions other attacks, and I had

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Speaker 1: one lady who he had actually put in a car

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Speaker 1: trunk and raped and driven all around town and raped

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Speaker 1: her and raped her and raped her. Her husband came

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Speaker 1: to the trial and when this similar transaction witness got

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Speaker 1: up on the stand, Karen, she would not say she

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Speaker 1: had been raped. She would not say she was raped

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Speaker 1: in front of her husband. There's nothing we could do

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Speaker 1: about it. We knew she had been raped. She told

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Speaker 1: us she was raped, but she could not bring herself

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Speaker 1: to say it with her husband in the courtroom. And

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Speaker 1: in her culture it was a bad thing. It made

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Speaker 1: the woman somehow demand. So there's so many reasons rape

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Speaker 1: victims don't be poornt and they're all heartbreaking, most of them, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: Just as you said, and I remember that story involves shame.

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Speaker 1: I mean, here's the case where a victim is blaming

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Speaker 1: themselves because they steel so ashamed that this happened to them.

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Speaker 1: And they're only getting that because of society. We are

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Speaker 1: in the past, not anymore, but it used to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, you could be provoking someone if you'd dress

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Speaker 1: the right way. And now we don't feel that way.

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Speaker 1: But it lingers that whole belief that somehow you should

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Speaker 1: not have had that happen, You should have been able

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Speaker 1: to prevent it. Now, isn't this true? Christie Missourich that

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Speaker 1: asked about lifts response within twenty four hours after the

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Speaker 1: victim's report, their first response was it never happened. But

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Speaker 1: then the next day they refunded her ninety three dollars

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Speaker 1: and ninety nine cents, but they still charged her twelve

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Speaker 1: dollars and eighty one cents so she could be kidnapped

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Speaker 1: across state lines, right and traffic. That is true, and

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Speaker 1: that is a woman by the name of Alison Turkos.

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Speaker 1: She was held at gunpoint by her lift driver, driven

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Speaker 1: from Brooklyn to New Jersey to a park where she

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Speaker 1: was game raped by the driver and two of his

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Speaker 1: friends before they took off. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: cut ten our friend Nikki Battista at CBS. According to

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Speaker 1: turkos recently filed lawsuit, a rape kit administered afterward confirmed

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Speaker 1: evidence of seamen from two men on the clothing she

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Speaker 1: wore that night. In the suit, she says she initially

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Speaker 1: blocked out what happened and reported to Lift only that

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Speaker 1: her driver had taken her outside of her route and

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Speaker 1: across state lines. You call Lift within twenty four hours,

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Speaker 1: and what's their response to your first report? Their first

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Speaker 1: response is that this never happened. The next day they

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Speaker 1: send me an email that says we've refunded the ninety

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Speaker 1: three dollars ninety nine cents. We are still charging new

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Speaker 1: twelve dollars and eighty one cents. So left charged me

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Speaker 1: twelve dollars and eighty one cents to be kidnapped across

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Speaker 1: state lines, gang raped and trafficked. Now. That is Alison

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Speaker 1: Turko's thirty one year old rate victim. Take a listen

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Speaker 1: to more about her case regarding a lift driver allegedly

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Speaker 1: raping her. Our cut eleven cbs. Turkos says she filed

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Speaker 1: a police report after she was allegedly raped. This week.

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Speaker 1: The law firm representing her filed five lawsuits and says

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Speaker 1: it currently represents around sixty eight women who claimed to

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Speaker 1: have been sexually assaulted by lift drivers. Just two weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: fourteen women filed suits against Lift, alleging it mishandled sexual

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Speaker 1: assault complaints and in some cases allowed drivers to continue

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Speaker 1: to work. The driver was able to make a new profile,

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Speaker 1: update a new profile photo, and update a new name

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Speaker 1: and was still driving for a lift. I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about Alison Turkos and Kristen Giangara, both victims of

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Speaker 1: alleged rapes, and take a listen to what Lift had

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Speaker 1: to say about Giangara's lawsuit. It's sur cut seven and

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Speaker 1: are from our friends at k S d K five.

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Speaker 1: Last month, Lift file response to Giangara's lawsuit. It states

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Speaker 1: Giangara failed to act as a reasonable and prudent person

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Speaker 1: with regard to her own safety. I think it sends

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Speaker 1: a message that that victims are have blame and in

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Speaker 1: what happens to them, and it's so not true. A

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Speaker 1: spokesman for a Lift tells me the language in this

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Speaker 1: lawsuit is pretty standard for these types of cases and

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Speaker 1: it never meant to upset the victim. The company says

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Speaker 1: they plan to amend the filing. Giangara says that's not enough.

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Speaker 1: I think it really shows that their priority is not

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Speaker 1: the safety of their customers. Think here is jar your

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us from Manhattan. That goes to what you said, shame.

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Speaker 1: Rapehs are made to feel ashamed, like it's their fault.

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Speaker 1: And here you have left filing a response to a

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Speaker 1: lawsuit saying she's the one that failed to act reasonably

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Speaker 1: and prudently regarding your own safety. They're actually blaming her

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Speaker 1: for getting a rape to the lift car. Are we surprised, Nancy?

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Speaker 1: I think that's exactly what happened. Why people don't come forward.

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Speaker 1: It's just outrageous because that's the kind of crime you

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Speaker 1: would never see that happen in a regular crime. That

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Speaker 1: when it comes to rap it's so often that the

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Speaker 1: gston winds up being blamed charged. It's wild crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace just kind of morgan. How can these

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Speaker 1: case be linked? How are we ever going to find

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Speaker 1: out how many people if there are more than the

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Speaker 1: suspect's Larry Ward and I'll find so Alicon Nunez, how

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Speaker 1: many rapes have they committed? How can we find that out? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be difficult. And going back to what

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Speaker 1: had previously been said Nancy, and this is the real

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Speaker 1: tragedy is the fact that many times these people, these

426
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: victims are terrified to report, Nancy, and so when that happens,

427
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: the chain is essentially broken. Relative to the evidence. You

428
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: don't know how many people are out there. Remember there's

429
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: probably half again as many people that haven't reported as

430
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: have reported. And then you run into the problem of

431
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: well are they collecting the evidence correctly and is it

432
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: actually even being submitted. There's a national problem with rape

433
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: kit submission in this country. So everything breaks down. Of course,

434
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: the victim is the problem. You're right, oh, I can

435
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: explaining the problem. The problem is apathy, I think, and

436
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: laziness on the job. You have rape kits that sit

437
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 1: in evidence rooms and this is biological sample Nancy, that

438
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: are very very fragile, and they'll begin to break down

439
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: if they're not submitted very soon. And you've been in

440
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: evidence rooms you know they're horrible places and they're not

441
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: correctly prepared to take care of these samples many times,

442
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: so you have multiple places along the continuum where it

443
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: breaks in. Of course, at the end of the day,

444
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: the victim is the one. They don't just get victimized

445
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: by the perpetrator. That's bad enough, but then the courts

446
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: don't do their job, the police don't do their jobs,

447
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: and now you've got a private company like Lift that's

448
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: also going to attack them as well. Give me a break,

449
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: So let me ask you if I could just add

450
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: one thing on the go into that go ahead, I

451
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: would just like to say that another big problem is

452
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: that while it's very easy to say that you take

453
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: the safety and security of your staff and your customer seriously,

454
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: the reality is that secure and safety is typically like

455
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: the last line item on a budget. So there's no

456
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: real standard. There's no real standard for what actually constitutes

457
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 1: a background check. You know, a twenty five dollars truth

458
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: finder or a paid subscription model where you're doing these

459
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 1: end mass at scale is not the same as a

460
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: due diligence background check. And if a lot of times

461
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: if you haven't been convicted, it won't show up. So

462
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: it won't it may not say that you were arrested

463
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: or charged with the sexual assault and those charges were

464
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: actually dropped. So there really, in addition to everything else,

465
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: the corporate responsibility needs to really take the initiative in

466
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: trying to elevate the standard of care. I really believe

467
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: that in these cases where you see that the company

468
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: is allowing predators to pick up women or pick up anyone,

469
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: that they should be held criminally liable as well. It

470
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: can happen. If you're still kind of convinced, take a

471
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: listen to our cut nine. This is Alice and Turka

472
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: is describing what happened to her with a lift ride.

473
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: The minute that the gun gets pulled and is so

474
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: close to my face, the first thought that came to

475
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: my mind was like, I'm not going to get home

476
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: safe and I'm probably not going to get home alive.

477
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: Alison Turkos says a lift ride she took in twenty

478
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: seventeen was only supposed to last around fifteen minutes. Instead,

479
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: she says, over the course of seventy nine minutes, she

480
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: was kidnapped by her driver, driven from New York to

481
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 1: New Jersey, and sexually assaulted by at least two men.

482
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: What's the one word you would use to describe how

483
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: lift has treated you? Callously? Apparently this is the tip

484
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,479
Speaker 1: of the iceberg. Listen to our cut fourteen from our

485
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: priscy k r q E. The district attorney says eler

486
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: kah Nunez was picking up riders that weren't his, driving

487
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: those victims to their hull where he'd break in, raped them,

488
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: and then steal their valuables. Aler con Nunez was a

489
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: legit uber driver and had a valid driver's license, but

490
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: he's not a legal US citizen. That mister aler Contunez

491
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: is an undocumented undocumented immigrant here in the United States,

492
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: a citizen of Mexico who was deported voluntarily in two

493
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: thousand and five. Homeland Security says aler Con Nuniez was

494
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: deported from New Mexico was contacted in New Mexico and

495
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: was asked if he would if you would voluntarily go

496
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: back to Mexico. Authorities say that didn't stop him, though,

497
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: from coming back to the US and becoming an Uber

498
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: driver in California. Guys, if I could only tell you

499
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: how many examples we have, take a listen to our

500
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: friends at CBSLA Our cut sixteen. An Uber driver in

501
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: San Luis Obismo is accused of raping four passengers between

502
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: mid December and last week. Please say. The driver would

503
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: scout out parties or bars and then target young drunk women,

504
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: but then trick and debrated victims who had ordered an

505
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: Uber into thinking he was their driver. He then took

506
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: the victims to his home, where he sexually assaulted them.

507
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: He used Venmo as an alternative paying system to mask

508
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 1: his identity and Uber records. His arrest prompted police to

509
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: warn customers to only make payments through Uber and to

510
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: always confirm the driver's identity through the Uber app before

511
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: getting in. I mean, Dan Corcentina, in former police chief,

512
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: not only does he rape them, but some of these

513
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: guys go into your home where they drop you off

514
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: and steal your stuff. Yeah. Absolutely not only are they

515
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: perpetrators in the vehicle, but now they become stalkers of

516
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: the victim, and who's to say that they're not going

517
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: to repeat the crime and also get to know the neighborhood.

518
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: You know, it kind of sounds like this needs legislative

519
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 1: action at time for these transport companies for mandatory background

520
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: checks across the board to try and reduce the victimization

521
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: of people, because there's clearly an expectation of safety or

522
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: any person that's going to get into a vehicle to

523
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: be transported, and especially a woman, the elderly or young

524
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: that is trying to get from point eight to point B.

525
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: They're going back to your point, Nancy. Absolutely, these individuals

526
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 1: now are not only committing a crime, but they're planning

527
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: the next crime, and that is possibly the burglary and

528
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: theft of residents. So Christy Missouri joining us any award

529
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 1: winning investigative reporter, Aber and Lyft claim they're making changes.

530
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: What changes, well just a few days ago, and you're

531
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: going to be horrified when I tell you this. Ober

532
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: and the Lift are good before the Illinois Supreme Court

533
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: trying to double down and push back on all of

534
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: these lawsuits that are flying at them. They're trying to

535
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: argue that a specific prevision of state law, the Transportation

536
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: Network Provid Writers Act stats that right share drivers are

537
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: not common carriers, contract carriers, or motor carriers as divined

538
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: by applicable state laws. So they're arguing that language differentiates

539
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: them from other common carriers and means they're not subject

540
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 1: to the same liability. They also further maintain that they

541
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: just continuously monitor their drivers and driver applications. However, their

542
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 1: statistics don't support that. There are thousands of reported assaults

543
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: and rates coming in year after year. To EU Spiser

544
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: course and founder present Course of Security Group and author

545
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: of the Safety Trap Secrets for Staying Safe, Obviously, the

546
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: right share companies are not going to protect us, So

547
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: what should we do to protect ourselves? The best thing

548
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: we can do is to have a healthy sense of

549
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: skepticism and a moderate dose of vigilance, which is, of course,

550
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: if you're inebriated and you're tired and you're passed out

551
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: into the back of a car, there's that punch you're

552
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: going to be able to do to be situational aware

553
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 1: in that point. But if you are in an a ride,

554
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: or if you are in a situation where you feel unsafe,

555
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: the best thing to do is to get yourself out

556
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: of that situation immediately, whether that's using the emergency application

557
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: in the app, just simply saying to the driver you

558
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: change your mind you want to get out, or drawing,

559
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: even just picking up the phone call or picking up

560
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: the phone and calling someone so that you can have

561
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: someone else listening into what's going on. The more that

562
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: you can promote your own protective posture, the better your

563
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: chances of staying safe will be. Because, like with everything else,

564
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: it's these these evildoers tend to not go after the

565
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: strongest among us. They tend to go after the weakest. Nay,

566
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: see this is James. You know two other things that

567
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: are very important also armor with everything you just said,

568
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: is there are multiple apps where you can share your

569
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: locations with family, with loved ones, with friends, and they

570
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: can monitor whether or not you get from point A

571
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: to point B. And the other thing is it's very

572
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: important to not travel by yourself if at all possible.

573
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: They're safety in numbers. That's always been the case, always

574
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,839
Speaker 1: will be, Guys, it's so hard to think out ways

575
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: for victims to stay safe in a situation like this,

576
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: but we are trying. First of all, use the app

577
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 1: information and verify you've got the right driver. Look at

578
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: his name and his photo on his idea to make

579
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: sure you've got the right one. Always try to let

580
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: somebody know you're taking a ride chair. Let them know, Hey,

581
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm jumping in an uber. Hey I'm jumping in a lift,

582
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: so someone knows where you are. Also tell that special

583
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: person how long you think the ride will take, and

584
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: problems to text or call when you get home. Not

585
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: only that, I love doing this. The moment I get

586
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 1: in a ride chair, I take the driver's picture right

587
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: in front of him. He knows I've got his idea

588
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: and his name and his photo. That way, he knows

589
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: I'm onto him. In addition to taking the picture, when

590
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: you open the door to the ride chair, look around inside.

591
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 1: Make sure the child locks are not on. That's very important.

592
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: Child locks not on. If you drink before you take

593
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: the ride chair. Try not to ride alone. Sometimes you

594
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: can't help it, but if you can ride in a

595
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: group or at least with one other person. Of course,

596
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: trust your instincts. If you feel something is off, don't

597
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: get in or at any time if the driver is

598
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: asking inappropriate questions, or you feel uncomfortable, call nine one

599
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: one or contact nine one one through the app. They

600
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:02,240
Speaker 1: will immediately locate the driver's position. Not only that, always

601
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: carry protection and I'm talking about a personal alarm, the

602
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: screamer or pepper spray. When you need it, You'll be

603
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: glad you did. Nancy Grace Crimes Story signing off, Goodbye friend,