1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you 3 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. Today's episode touches on some 4 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: pretty stigmatized, disturbing things, but it's a fascinating story and 5 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: it reminds me of our earlier episodes on currency. You 6 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: remember those? No, Yeah, what was the word for a 7 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: currency enthusiasts or a collector of coins? I think it's 8 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: new hang on, phil philologists. Oh that's the philotist? Is 9 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: the damp collector? Oh never mind? Yeah, well stamps you're 10 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: kind of a form of currency in their own way. 11 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, to remind me of the of the currency episode, Ben, 12 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 1: I am null by the way that you're talking about. 13 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: We did the rise and fall of local script remember 14 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: during the Great Depression era, that's right, And there was 15 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: even like you know things, Yeah, that's right. There was 16 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: there was notes that were specific to regions, and it 17 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: was just kind of like almost like a continuation of 18 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: using things like shells or precious stones. Right, And the 19 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: word for a coin collector, if not a full currency 20 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: collector would be a new miss maddest least love that 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: never been one of those or a philologist myself, But 22 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,839 Speaker 1: I do think those kinds of artifacts are absolutely fascinating. 23 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,559 Speaker 1: But you're right, then, we are talking about a type 24 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: of currency that was in and of itself stigmatized, but 25 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: a type of currency that was tied to an even 26 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: more stigmatized group, those afflicted with leprosy what is now 27 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: known as Hansen's disease. Um. You can leave your Bob 28 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: Jokes at the door. That's me talking to myself. But yeah, 29 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: we know this from popular culture. It's often depicted in film, 30 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: or actually in Princess Mononoke, the studio Ghibliyao Miyazaki film, 31 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: there is a leper colony, and it is a condition 32 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: that affects people in their eyes and their respiratory systems. 33 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: They're nervous system and essentially is a degenerative condition where 34 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: people's bodies essentially break down and almost decay, you know, 35 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: as they're alive. Yeah, this is a slow growing bacterial infection. 36 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 1: We know now, but back in the day, people did 37 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: not have the medical understanding we enjoy here in twenty one. 38 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: As we begin, I want to shout out, of course, 39 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: our super producer Casey Pegram, our guest producer Andrew Howard, 40 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: and you know, a lot of people during the pandemic, 41 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: when people were quarantined or had to stay at home, 42 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: may have felt the emotional weight of isolation, of enforced solitude, 43 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: right being forced to stay in a place for one 44 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: reason or another. People who lived in what we're called 45 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: leper colonies who were afflicted with Hanson's disease, we're so 46 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 1: stigmatized that they had to form their own kind of community, 47 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: like entire communities of people under quarantine. And interestingly enough, 48 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: there is strong evidence that not all of these people 49 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: who are called lepers and sent to these colonies actually 50 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: had leprosy. They may have been affected by a broad 51 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: spectrum of different skin conditions. And people saw it and 52 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: we're just so terrified of Hansen's disease that they said, 53 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: that's close enough to leprosy for me off to the colony. 54 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: You go totally. And I mean, like you said, I mean, 55 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: they really did have kind of a very warped understanding 56 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: of exactly how contagious, uh, this disease was. And that's 57 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: part of it where people, you know, it's even an expression, 58 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: people say, it's treating me like a leper, you know, 59 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: like you don't want to be touched or you know, 60 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: people are keeping you at arm's length or whatever. And 61 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: so that extended to the types of things that would 62 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: get passed around, right like currency. Uh so it became 63 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: necessary to create a specialized currency that only people with 64 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: leprosy would be handling, right, Yeah, absolutely, we have to. 65 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: We have to understand too that until the mid twenty century, 66 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 1: there was no known proving cure for leprosy, and people 67 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: did believe it's spread much more efficiently than it actually does. Today, 68 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: Hansen's disease has not been totally wiped out, but it 69 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: is relatively rare. There are an estimated according to money 70 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: dot org and you'll see while we're using money dot 71 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: org and a bit folks, some one eight thousand cases 72 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: are estimated to exist across the world today. A hundred 73 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: of those are in the US. And so there are 74 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: still all these misconceptions about this condition that are in 75 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: the modern day. Like I will confess, when I was 76 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: a kid, I was one of those people who thought 77 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: that leprosy would cause your fingers and your nose and 78 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: your toes to fall off because I had heard about leprosy, 79 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: I had read about it, but I had never actually 80 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: encountered it. Uh, And that's part of this stigma because 81 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: oh man, this stigma is so old it dates back 82 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: to like biblical times. Yeah, I mean right, it didn't 83 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: Jesus kara leper at some point that was a thing, 84 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: and you have Bill. Yeah, it's one of those moments 85 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: that demonstrated Jesus's mystical abilities or whatever to to heal 86 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: the sick and all that. But the thing that's that's 87 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: interesting about leprosy is it was sort of like a 88 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: bunch of different conditions that were glommed in together as 89 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: this one thing. But in fact it was like multiple 90 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: different conditions that were all of varying degrees of severity, um, 91 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: but kind of all put under this umbrella catch all 92 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: of leprosy. So you know, some folks might have a 93 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: form of it. It wasn't nearly as contagious or deadly, 94 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,799 Speaker 1: but they would be treated just the same. In fact, 95 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: the Centers for Disease Control said that though leprosy can 96 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: spread through droplets in the same way that those droplets 97 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: that come out of your mouth when you sneeze or cough, 98 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: the same method of transmitting COVID nineteen, it's not nearly 99 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: as successful as something like the flu and being contagious. 100 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: You have to be in prolonged close contact with someone 101 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: who is not taking treatment for this condition over like 102 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: many months according to the CDC to have a chance 103 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: of catching the disease. But back in the day, way 104 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: back in the day, biblical times, people would even believe 105 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: that this was a curse from God, maybe because you 106 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: had done something wrong or evil, or that your parents 107 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: had done something wrong or evil and the sins of 108 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: the parent were being visited upon the child. As we 109 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: got closer to a more secular understanding of disease transmission 110 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: and medical science advanced, people started understanding that somehow leprosy 111 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: from one person could affect another person, and this led 112 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: to a kind of guilt by association. So if for instance, 113 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: you are in um in an ancient town square and 114 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: a leper touches a cup, you would feel like touching 115 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 1: that cup would be a guaranteed chance of you getting leprosy, 116 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So any touched or war 117 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: or eat was out of like out of balance officially, 118 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: and let's just think about you know, started to keep 119 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: bringing it back to the topic coral. Probably way overhearing 120 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: about at this point. But bring it back to the 121 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: beginning of the COVID nineteen pandemic, when people didn't really 122 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: fully understand how it spread. There are people that were 123 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: taking their groceries and keeping them in their garage for 124 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: days so that the quote unquote the surface transmission would 125 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: be reduced the potential. Turns out that wasn't really the thing. 126 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: But I understand this level of paranoia that comes with 127 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: not knowing, you know what I mean. So you can't 128 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: entirely damn these folks that were, you know, taking these precautions. 129 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: But it also, like you said, bad, I mean, it's 130 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: just this guilt by association and it really just kind 131 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: of demonizes an entire population. Uh. And so these lepre 132 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: colonies are established there. This is a great word, lepro storiums. 133 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: That's what they were referred to, and that started as 134 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: far back as the Middle Ages, especially in Europe and 135 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: India where the disease was much more common. They would 136 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: be and this again something we know from from pop 137 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: culture and film. Uh. They were maintained and overseen by monks, 138 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: and they were often you know, on islands that were 139 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 1: isolated and far away from the regular populations or high 140 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: up in the mountains wherever it was. Remoteness was the 141 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: name of the game. And so this is essentially a quarantine, 142 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: isolated community aside from the caretakers who were taking risk 143 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: and putting their lives at risk in order to you know, 144 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: take care of these uh, these people, these these individuals 145 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: who were ostracized in that way. And so with a 146 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: colony or a separatist kind of civilization, essentially you need 147 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: its own currency. So that was sort of one part 148 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: of leprosy money, right, was just to give them a 149 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,199 Speaker 1: way to trade and to have money to spend to 150 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: buy the things they needed within that community. But it 151 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: also was a way to keep that money out of 152 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: the circulation of like the larger world, because this notion that, oh, 153 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,200 Speaker 1: if you touch money that a leper as touched, is 154 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: it offensive to say leper? I know they don't call 155 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: it leprosy as much anymore, but they would have they 156 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: would have said leper at this time. They would have 157 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: said leper. It's okay. I'm just making sure to be 158 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: sensitive because it does still exist. It hasn't been fully eradicated. 159 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: It exists largely only I think in absolutely in tropical 160 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: areas and in Africa and some parts of India. I 161 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: believe yes. So one important thing I want to step 162 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: back and clear the air on here is there's another 163 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: misconception that leprosy was a quick death situation, right, like 164 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: you would get it and then you would have a 165 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: ticking time bomb until your demise. But the problem is, 166 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: at least from a social management position, that people suffering 167 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: from leprosy could live a long time, which means they 168 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: need a community. You know, they need someone to cook, 169 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: they need someone to like make clothes, repair shelters, all 170 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: that jazz, which is why they need the money, the 171 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: leprosy money that exists as an alternate currency that can 172 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: be used for the economy of the leper colony. But 173 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: there was another insidious purpose here. It made escaping the 174 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: colony much more difficult. Imagine you are the most well 175 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: to do person in one of these colonies, right. Let's 176 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: say that you are growing food on the colony, right, 177 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: and you have done quite well, and now you are 178 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: super well off in comparison to the other members of 179 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: the colony. And you say, hey, I bet I could escape. 180 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: Not so fast, because even if you have ten tho 181 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: dollars worth of this leprosy money. Nobody outside the colony 182 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: is going to take it, and possibly nobody in other 183 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 1: leper colonies would take it because it wasn't quite standardized, 184 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: and so this was the only form of money that 185 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: people could access. So while it did provide a path 186 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: towards economic prosperity, it also functioned in a very real 187 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: way kind of like a wall to keep you from 188 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: leaving well. And that's the same problem as we saw 189 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: in that previous episode we did about kind of regionalized currencies. 190 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: They wouldn't have any standards, so there was no like 191 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, uh, documented exchange rate, and you get far 192 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: enough away from your home turf that money is useless. 193 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: You know that no one's gonna take it. Uh. So 194 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: it really does, like you know, further isolate you within 195 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: that community. So in a lot of these kind of 196 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: quarantine zones, these were coins, by the way, and not 197 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: paper money, but these you could think of them as 198 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: as medical exiles. That's how it's referred to on an 199 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: article from Atlas Obscura, and I like that. But the 200 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: thing is is it's like it's it's it's indefinite, right, 201 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: Like you there's really no. They didn't have a cure. 202 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: So you're essentially being cast off from society and forced 203 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: to of a potentially life sentence, you know, on this 204 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: isolated community. And I'm sure people got along and made 205 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: new connections and friendships, but you would have had to 206 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: leave your family behind, likely ben unless they were also afflicted, 207 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: and then maybe they'd come with you. But I thought, 208 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: what a what a heartbreaking situation this must have been 209 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: for for so many Yeah. Yeah, And the big question 210 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: is how did this money come into the hands of 211 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: people at the colonies. There was a process, according to 212 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: the curator of the National Hanson's Disease Museum, if you 213 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: are someone who society has decided has leprosy, you go 214 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: to the colony. You have to hand over any outside 215 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: currency that you have, and in exchange you get these 216 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,680 Speaker 1: special purpose coins, sometimes bills, but largely coins, and you 217 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: had very little say in the matter. This is kind 218 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: of firebreak and an airlock to keep this so called 219 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: tainted money on the on the colony grounds. So we 220 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: know that families had been separated. That definitely happened. If 221 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: you had this condition, you were stuck in one of 222 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: these colonies, you could send money to your family and 223 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: your relatives on the outside, but the only way you 224 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: could do it is to go to the colonies administration, 225 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: maybe that monastic order mentioned earlier, and exchange your leper 226 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: colony money for the local currency. And it would be 227 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: up to those administrators as to, you know, what an 228 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: exchange rate looks like, as to whether or not they 229 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: let you do it at all, because if you think 230 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: about it, the people on the colony have no way 231 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: to address corruption or bad actors. Let's see, you're the 232 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: money man at the monastery and you're corrupt, then when 233 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: people hand you this outside currency, you could just pocket it. Yeah, 234 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: and I'm certain that happened. Gosh, even more of a yeah, 235 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: because you know, if if you were to escape and 236 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: you had this uh proprietary money, you know, you'd get 237 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: to a point where it would absolutely be worthless and 238 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't help you out at all. And you've had all 239 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: of your earthly possessions taken from you and you're legal 240 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: tender taken from you. So uh, that curator you mentioned, 241 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: Ben who has a fabulous name, Elizabeth Scheck Snyder of 242 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: the National Hanson's Disease Museum, UH talked about an interesting 243 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: process that went on with outside money, all outside money 244 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: or outgoing money that left the the the Leopard colony 245 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: was sanitized by quote chemical fumigation um and and like 246 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: you said, patients were uh not allowed to deal directly 247 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: with traders that would come, you know, and and and 248 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: do deals with the monks, that the monks would buy 249 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: the materials with real money. And then essentially residents of 250 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: the colony would have to use their kind of monopoly 251 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: money to buy the stuff from the monks. And not 252 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: Every quarantine settlement or lepresarium, which I agree is is 253 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: a fascinating word, had its own currency. But if you 254 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: look across the world, as Atlas Obscurity describes it, colonies 255 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: from places as far flung as Brazil or Japan all 256 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:28,479 Speaker 1: issued some form of alternative currency. And this was entirely 257 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: a means of further isolating patients from society and also 258 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: reassuring the surrounding communities. Because you think nimby is bad now, 259 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: the not in my backyard phenomenon is that times ten uh. 260 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: Some of these were minted by the colonies themselves, and 261 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: others were made by the outside government specifically for those colonies. Yeah, 262 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: or even issued like yeah, sometimes by that like a 263 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: Ministry of Health type situation. And we know that sometimes 264 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: foreign countries manufactured leprosy money for colonies in different countries, 265 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: like the Palos Echo quarantine in the Panama Canal Zone. 266 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: Was the money for that was made at the Philly mint. 267 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: Here in the US. They were also again not standardized, 268 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: so if you had your Panama Canal Zone leper money 269 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: and then you travel to Brazil, then there is absolutely 270 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: no guarantee that they would take it. It would be 271 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: another foreign outside currency. Yeah, and I mean these there 272 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,239 Speaker 1: was some thought that went into these. I mean they 273 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: were often beautifully illustrated, very elaborately designed, from the coins 274 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: to the to the occasional bills. The oldest leprosy coins 275 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: that we know of were um minted in Venezuela in 276 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: eight seven, and I believe to date we only have 277 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: one surviving example. And you know, speaking of the paper 278 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: money or script notes, they were issued from time to time, 279 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: specifically in nineteen thirty five and thirty six and the 280 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: Sungai Below Settlement and what would today be called Malaysia 281 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: and the island of ko Leon in the Philippines, they 282 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: also issued paper money. This colony was founded in nineteen 283 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: o two. Originally, these special coins were issued by the 284 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: Government of the Philippines in nineteen thirteen when they said, okay, 285 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: we we want to pick up this practice an alternative currency. 286 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: But in nineteen forty two, invading Japanese forces cut the 287 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: island off from Manila. They lost contact and Manila's where 288 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: the coins were minted. So now the colony has to 289 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: deal with a lack of currency in addition to invading forces. 290 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: So at that point, you know, this colony is a community. 291 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: It's like a small town, right or it's an entire 292 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: island in this case, so people have to buy stuff, 293 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: you have to pay people who do jobs. And so 294 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: the President of the Philippines at the time, the President 295 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: in exile, Manual Kazon, has an emergency issue of these 296 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: bills of this paper money, and they come out in 297 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: seven different denominations. It's backed by the U. S. Army, 298 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: so like they co sign it for credibility and legitimacy. 299 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: But the Japanese forces stayed and the situation got worse 300 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: and worse, and many people on the island unfortunately passed 301 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: away from starvation or lack of medical care and long 302 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: story short in U. S. Army Air Corps was able 303 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: to help a little bit by air dropping food and medicine. 304 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: But we know that that injection, that emergency cash in 305 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: a very real way kept everything running for a time. 306 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: Like money is an idea, right, it's a representation of something, 307 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: and so when you have that physical currency in a 308 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: very real way makes modern community as possible. So here 309 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: here's the thing. I mean. You know, leprosy was contagious, 310 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: is contagious, but like we mentioned at the top of 311 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: the show, much less contagious even than the flu by 312 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: those droplets. Ben correct me if I'm wrong. But is 313 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: it largely a myth that leprosy is contagious by touch 314 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: or is there some truth to that? Well it's a 315 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: little more difficult than that, thankfully. So the current belief 316 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: is that this condition spreads when someone who has leprosy 317 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: Rahnson's disease coughs or sneezes and healthy person is nearby 318 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: and repeatedly breathes in those infected droplets. So it's just 319 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: like the stuff with COVID and surface contact, right, people 320 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: are being extra extra careful. But you know, instead of 321 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 1: just bags of groceries, these are living people in their 322 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: lives and everything they touch. This is strange because there's 323 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: a larger idea, like most of this currency comes out 324 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: in the nineteen hundreds, as we said, because it coincided 325 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: with this general terror across the world that germs could 326 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: be transmitted simply by touching things. And we see, you know, 327 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: we still see remnants of that idea with misunderstandings of 328 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: other medical conditions, like the idea of touching something that 329 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: has been touched by someone who's affected with a certain 330 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,160 Speaker 1: STD or so one. Oh totally, and those stigmas persist. 331 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Things like Herpie's simplex too, which is super common, but 332 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,479 Speaker 1: not even as common as herpies simplex one, which is 333 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: a cold sore, which you know, so so many people 334 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: have don't even realize that's what it is. But yet 335 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 1: there's still a heavy stigma or on both of those things, right. 336 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: I think that's a good point. Douglas Mud, the director 337 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: and curator of the American Numismatic Association's, maum, Yeah, they're 338 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: killing with the names today. He uh. He explains it 339 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: this way. He says, through the nineteen twenties, there was 340 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 1: a bit of paranoia about currency and currency becoming a 341 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: vector of disease, and he said it was associated with money. 342 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: This was only further compounded by the deep millennia old 343 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: fear of a disease that people very much considered like 344 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: a biblical curse, like you did something wrong, God has 345 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: punished you. But you know, I want to pause for 346 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: a second, no, because one thing that's fascinating to me 347 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: about this is people were worried about that kind of 348 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: guilt by association or contact, but didn't really think about 349 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: how dirty money actually is already. It's filthy, oh god, yes, yeah, 350 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: it's something that you know, your parents warned you about 351 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: when you're a kid, you know, like don't don't like 352 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: lick your hands after handling dollar bill because it's one 353 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: of the most it's like a door knob. Anything that's 354 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: like you know, or like a like a guard rail 355 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,199 Speaker 1: on an escalator or something. Anything that people are constantly 356 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: rubbing their grubby little pause all over is is going 357 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: to be a potentially a vector for some amount of 358 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 1: germs or nastiness. But it turns out that the micro 359 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: bacterium lep ry, which is what causes leprosy, not a 360 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: thing doesn't live well on the surfaces of of currency. 361 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: And as we've been trying to hit home, I think 362 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: it's important because I will tell you and completely be honest, 363 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: I had a pretty outdated view of what leprosy was. 364 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: I kind of internalized a lot of those pop culture 365 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: references to it and depictions and film and stuff, and 366 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: I really did think that it was you know, you 367 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: could literally get it just by touching somebody. Um, so 368 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: this is a good myth busting exercise for me as well. 369 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: But yeah, not nearly as contagious as the world would 370 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: have thought at the time, and again I think still 371 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: probably does. But a particular colony by the name of 372 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: Carville had a century long history. Uh and in that time, 373 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: not a single monk or staff member whomever got the 374 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: disease from a patient. So even earlier when I was saying, 375 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: I like the monks were putting their themselves in harm's way, 376 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: that would have been the perception. But it turns out 377 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: that that didn't really happen. That wasn't really the case. 378 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: It was a lot of misplaced paranoia. But still props 379 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: to the monks for powering through that and helping these folks. 380 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: But also, is it really helping them it was. It was. 381 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: It was isolating them, it was separating them. I'm, I'm, 382 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 1: it's it's a little complicated, isn't it. It is it is, 383 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: And you're right. The leper storium there in Carville, Louisiana 384 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,400 Speaker 1: functioned pretty successfully in terms of like limiting the spread 385 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: of this condition or the spread of conditions they perceived 386 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: to be leprosy. It also like they did things that 387 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: a small town would do. There was an internationally distributed 388 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: newspaper that was entirely made by the patients. And in 389 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: this paper, which is called The Star, reported that Dr 390 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: Gordon Alexander Reary had sent paper money from the Malaysian 391 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: settlement into the Institute for Medical Research in Kuala Lumpard 392 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: and they said, let's check. Let's see if we can 393 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: find this bacterium on these bills. And they checked it, 394 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, seven ways from Sunday, and they could not 395 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: find a single live leprosy bacillus. So they couldn't even 396 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: find one example of the living bacteria there. But you know, 397 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: you published the crazy stuff in the front page of 398 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: the newspaper, you published retractions in the back. People had 399 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: already long ago made up their minds that touching this 400 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 1: money would give you leprosy. And so yet again fear 401 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: and rumor won the day over research and science, and 402 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: people still suffered this exile that you know, medically speaking, 403 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: they in many cases did not deserve you know what 404 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: I mean. That's right. And you know we're talking about 405 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: at the top of the show, what was the word 406 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: new Matton, new Matton, new Masmists, numismatics, numismatics. Yes, this 407 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: stuff is red meat for those folks coin collectors, because 408 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: they are rare and they are very, like I said, 409 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: beautifully minted and design. But they absolutely serve as kind 410 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: of symbol of how not fully understand things science and 411 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: the way these things work can really do a number 412 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: on people in terms of like how they're treated. It 413 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: almost as like subhumans. Right, Oh, absolutely, I mean consider 414 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: the irony. Now, for so long this money was considered 415 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: kind of funny money. It was script it was worthless 416 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: outside of the colony for which it was intended. But 417 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: now it is such a hot ticket item. Now if 418 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: you talk to a numiss Mattis, they are going to say, 419 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: holy smokes, I would love to get ahold of some 420 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: of that money. People will track it down to the 421 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 1: best of their abilities. And part of the reason people 422 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: covet this stuff so much in the modern day is 423 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: because it was it was like a regular practice to 424 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: destroy the money, right, Like you would have colonies would say, Okay, 425 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: we're not going to distribute this money anymore, because we 426 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: can actually treat this condition for sure, but just to 427 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: be on the safe side, let's burn it. Isn't that funny, Yeah, 428 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: it's so. It's almost like they were having a hard 429 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: time letting go of the old ways or their old 430 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: kind of misplaced fears, right because they you know, but again, 431 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: they were still just on the cusp of of the advancements. 432 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: And let's not forget this stuff was going on well 433 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: into the fifties, the nineteen fifties, not the eighteen fifties. 434 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: It's so fascinating. Yeah, I never would have thought that 435 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: that it had gone on for that long. But yes, 436 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: some of these coins are it's almost like a very 437 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: particular niche of coin collecting too. But you're right there, 438 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: they're very hard to find for that exact reason, which 439 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: probably makes them all the more sought after. So one 440 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: particular denomination from Colombia's Lazaretto Colony, the centavo competit nomination 441 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: was called Yeah, exactly, those are not as hard to 442 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: come by. Probably made a bunch of them. But then 443 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: you've got a particular type of mimiographed and hand lettered 444 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: and signed script paper currency from the Kullion colony very 445 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: difficult to find. And then there were even something referred 446 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: to as plastic tokens that were issued in China um 447 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: and and that is uh, you know, a long hard 448 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: road to get ahold of some of those. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 449 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,239 Speaker 1: because a lot of the paper script was burned, a 450 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: lot of the coins were melted down to become something else, 451 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: or straight up just thrown into the ocean, like that's 452 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: a that's a human habit, right, Let's just throw the 453 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: ocean will take care of it. So there's a group 454 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: of these kind of niche coin collectors like you described, 455 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: who are hot on the trail of these things. They're 456 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: often seen more like a curiosity. It's something you would 457 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: get for the love of the game, I guess, rather 458 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: than something that would be a super valuable collector's item, 459 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: because a lot of people even today aren't aware of 460 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: their existence. And Mud pointed out that there are two 461 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: factors that contribute to their kind of low value even 462 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: though they're very rare. And the first is that he 463 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: says part of what creates value in coinage is how 464 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: well a coin is known. And then secondly, people were 465 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 1: cutting corners, printing some of these, minting some of these. 466 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: The leprosy coins were made from like common base metals 467 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: never actually you know, silver or gold, like more and 468 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: more like utilitarian or I'm gonna callunclarly refer to them 469 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: as trash metals like nickel or aluminum. Uh, and even plastic, 470 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: Like we said, right, that's interesting. So there you have it. 471 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: Leprosy currency a very interesting artifact left over from a 472 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: bygone era of medical misunderstanding, which we talk about so 473 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: often on this show. I mean, really, the history of 474 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: medicine is all about kind of figuring things out as 475 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: you go, and a lot of horrible, horrible decisions and 476 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: treatments where were made before people really knew what they 477 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: were dealing with. And this is this is exactly that case. 478 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: But then I wanted to close out asking you did 479 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: you ever hear growing up that you could get leprosy 480 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: from an armadillo? We don't see those a ton around here, 481 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: but occasionally you'll see one on the side of the road. 482 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: But I I had always heard that and wasn't sure 483 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: if it was a myth or if there was some 484 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: truth to it. It is absolutely true that armadillo's, some 485 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: Armadillo's hashtag, not all armadillo's, can be naturally infected with 486 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: the bacteria that causes Hanson's disease. I learned about this. 487 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: This is a nerdy answer to the question, but I 488 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: learned about this when I was writing a sci fi 489 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: story where someone eats in armadillo, and so it was like, 490 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: I have to learn about what it is like to 491 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: eat in armadillo. And one of the first things that 492 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: popped up was a warning about leprosy. And I was 493 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm gonna have to change this whole 494 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: the whole vibe of this story, and the word gaming 495 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: comes to mind for what a garmadillo might taste like. 496 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: But no, you're You're right, then it is absolutely true. 497 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: In fact, the Centers for Disease Control has a They 498 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: have actually, if you go to CDC website, they have 499 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: some remarkably niche little sections advising you on what to 500 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: do in certain situations. Um and one of them is 501 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: a bit of practical advice on what to do if 502 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: you accidentally get leprosy from an armadillo. Yeah. It's one 503 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: of those things where you have to be thankful organizations 504 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: like the c d C exists because otherwise otherwise, I 505 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: imagine a lot of people would have no idea about this, 506 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: and they take a little bit of like a hard line. 507 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if this surprised you as well, Noll, 508 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: but if you visit the c d C S transmission 509 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: page for ever see your Handson's disease, what you'll find 510 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: is that one of the first things they say is 511 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: avoid contact with Armadillo's just in general, whenever possible, which 512 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: makes me feel sad because I always thought Armadillo's had 513 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: it rough, I know, And it really just goes back 514 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: to that same I mean, it's okay to ostracize Armadillo's, 515 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: just not people. Armadillo's have feelings, at least anthromorphized ones 516 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: in like cartoons do, so I assume that applies to 517 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: the real thing. Now, Armadillo's are kind of creepy looking dudes. Um, 518 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: but yeah, they say steer clear of Armadillo's, leave them alone. Uh, 519 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: And if you do happen to feel as though you 520 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: came into contact with an armadillo, UH, seek medical help immediately. 521 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: Talk to your healthcare provider. Your doctor will do some 522 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,360 Speaker 1: checks on your skin to see if you develop the disease. 523 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: But it is unlikely that you have, and in the 524 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: unlikely event that you have Handson's disease, your doctor can 525 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: help get you treatment. Yes, well said, And in defense 526 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: of the noble, humble armadillo, we should also point out 527 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 1: that all wild animals can potentially carry diseases. There they 528 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: are wild, they're not domesticated. If you see an armadillo 529 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: remain calm, it is probably it is probably way more 530 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: scared of you, and you know, try to overcome the 531 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 1: urge to petit. I would say, it's it's that simple 532 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: at this point. No, I don't think either of us 533 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: actually have any leprosy currency, but I feel like I'm 534 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 1: going to keep my eye out for it now now 535 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: that we know a little bit of what it looks like. 536 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: It's it's just such a strange piece of tangible physical history. 537 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 1: It is. And we love that here on Ridiculous History. Um, 538 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what else we love here on 539 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: ridiculous history super producer Casey Pegram. Oh he's the man, 540 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: is he not? He's right up there with guest producer 541 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard thinks again, Andrew would love to maybe get 542 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 1: you think we could cajole him into getting on the 543 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,399 Speaker 1: air sometimes, you know, it is certainly possible. I gotta say, 544 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: I love that Andrew sound cue. Man, that is such, 545 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: that is the perfect one. But it really is. It's 546 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: very so Andrew. If you knew Andrew, you'd understand. Oh man, Yeah, 547 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: we can't wait to hear it again. Thanks also to 548 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 1: Alex Williams, who composed our track. You know what I thought, 549 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: I was thinking, Man, maybe we should just start referring 550 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: to him as our composer. Does this soundclassy? It does 551 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: sound classy. I love I love the idea of being 552 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: a show that has a composer, right uh. And then, 553 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: of course, also if a show has a composer, it 554 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: also needs a villain, So big, big thanks as always 555 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: to Jonathan Strickland's a k a. The Quiz through and 556 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: thanks of course through Christopher Hasciotis to Eve's Jeff Coke 557 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: and our awesome research associate, the one and only Gabe Louisier, No, 558 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: I learned a lot on this one, and uh, we're 559 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: pretty lucky to be living in one. I guess. Yeah. 560 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: Well that's one way of looking at ito. I like 561 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 1: your I like your silver lining attitude. Speaking of which, 562 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: I got my first vaccine shot today, Ben, and I'm 563 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: pretty pumped. Congratulations, man, that's awesome. That's awesome, thanks dude. 564 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,960 Speaker 1: It does feel like things are inching their way towards normalcy. 565 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 1: And honestly, for me, one of the hardest parts about 566 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: this pandemic has been the paranoia and the not knowing. 567 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: Uh So, I understand the kind of thinking around this, 568 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: this leper colony stuff. But you live and you learn, 569 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: and time goes on and you learn more things about 570 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: the things that you once feared, and then hopefully you 571 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: can you can move past it. So I hope we 572 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: can take a page out of the book of the 573 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: history of Hanson's disease and it's associated currency. Well said, 574 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: well said, Stay safe everyone, See you next time, folks. 575 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 576 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 577 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.