1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mom Never told You from how stupp 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristen. Today we have a special guest who's 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: going to help us understand some of the concepts we 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: talked about in our first episode on Singles Week and 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Singles by Choice, and that is Dr Kinnerett Laadge. She's 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: a sociologist and assistant professor in the Women and Gender 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: Studies program at Tel Aviv University. And in our first episode, 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: where we talked a lot about the single by choice 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: movement and the fact that, you know, frankly, people are 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 1: a little bit scared of single women. Um, we cited 12 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: a lot of Dr Lahad's studies, and in reading her 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: studies to prepare for this week these episodes, it occurred 14 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: to me, you know, I would really like to ask 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: her some questions. I wish we could do that. And 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: so you did, Caroline, and and so yeah, So I 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: emailed her, yeah, and and then you talked. You talked 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: to her from Israel and found out a lot more 19 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: about her research, which really ties together so many things 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: that we touched on, not only in our episode on 21 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: being single by Choice, but that we talked about on 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: the podcast a lot in general, things like single hood, obviously, 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: gender feminism, aging and discrimination, and some of her study titles, 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: because we love excellent study titles on the podcast. Some 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: of those include single Hood, Waiting in the Sociology of Time, 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: which is interesting because she does talk a lot about 27 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,919 Speaker 1: time and how there is a gendered element to time 28 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: and aging in the context of relationship status is And 29 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: then I think my favorite is the Terror of the 30 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: single old Maid on the insolubility of a cultural category. Yeah, absolutely, 31 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: that is. That would be my favorite to um, just 32 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: because it's it's not that far off from reality. A 33 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: lot of people do have these terrible stereotypes about single 34 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: people in general, but specifically single women, and how that 35 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: whole issue of time is so interesting. In the time 36 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: for a single woman, let's say, pass like thirty five, 37 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: is almost a whole different realm than it is for 38 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: married women of the same age. Yeah, because that's when 39 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: you start to enter spinsterhood. Even today. I mean Kate Ballack, 40 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: whom we sided from the Atlantic a lot in last 41 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: episode as well, just came out with a new book 42 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: called Spenser. And speaking of books, you can look forward 43 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: to a forthcoming one from Dr Lahad called A Table 44 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: for One, a Critical Reading of single Hood and Time. 45 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: So this is gonna be a preview really of the 46 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: kind of research that she's going to be including in 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: that book. Yeah, and I made sure to ask her, 48 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: and you know this will be in the interview, but 49 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: I made trying to ask her about the whole single 50 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: by choice because in some of her studies she touches 51 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: on how the actual single by choice thing is a 52 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: movement is rather limiting, and so I was I was 53 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: really interested to get her take on why she's not 54 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: such a fan of the single by choice movement while 55 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: she is very supportive of single people in general. So, 56 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: without further ado, let's listen to Caroline's chat with Dr 57 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: Kinnerett Lahad. So I'll just get started by asking you 58 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: to introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them a 59 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: little bit about what you do for a living. Okay, Well, 60 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: my name is kin hut Um. I'm a member of 61 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: a program which is called the n c j w 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: UH Women and Gender Studies Program at Tel Aviv University, Israel, 63 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: and I white I research and I really love teaching 64 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: my students, which is really one of the unique things 65 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: about being an academic is the possibility to UM make 66 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: a significant change in UM in women's and men's lives. Well, 67 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: that's wonderful. And what inspired you to take this path? Why? 68 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: Why do you feel that it's important to work with 69 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: students to change their minds and change their lives. Well, 70 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: it's a good question. I can't locate it, you know, 71 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: I can't locate this at one particular moment in my life. 72 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: I can, you know, recall all kinds of junctures in 73 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: my in my life course UM which influenced my political thought, 74 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: my feminist consciousness. UM, I can trace some of it too. 75 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: When I was ten, my father is a diplomat so UM. 76 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: One of the posts we had was in Tooria in 77 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: South Africa and it was between the age of eighty 78 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: two to eighty six to still apartheid in South Africa 79 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: and UM as a ten year old, and I would say, 80 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: even twelve year old, I just couldn't understand it. I 81 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: just couldn't understand this. UM, the system in which blacks 82 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,119 Speaker 1: are not allowed to enter the same places as white 83 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: and blacks cannot work in the same jobs. And actually 84 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: the blacks you encounter usually clean your house or drive 85 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: your car in, or clean the streets, but they cannot 86 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: sit with you in the same cafe or even in 87 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: the same bench. And I think that as a little girl, 88 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: um as a mature as a you know, just before 89 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 1: becoming a teenager, this had a tremendous impact on on 90 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: my thought, this kind of injustice which seemed, you know, 91 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,799 Speaker 1: like the most natural and ordinary thing you can imagine, 92 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: you know, just you know, there are people who are 93 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: not who are not worthy of the same rights as others, 94 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: and it has so much and it influences one's lives 95 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: in so many respects. So I think that's one of 96 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: the points, you know, which really influenced, which really influenced 97 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 1: me in my life and made me want to make 98 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: a change in the way people thinking negress reality which 99 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: is taken for granted, in which injustice and inequality are 100 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: taken for granted. Well, you know, Kristen, and I read 101 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: several of your studies about single hood and single women 102 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: for our episode about single women and sort of the 103 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: culture and stigma surrounding them, and I was really curious 104 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: how you chose to focus on these issues in your research, 105 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: specifically about women singlehood and sort of the social perception 106 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: around them. Okay, Um, Well, it was really a surprise 107 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: for me to discover that despite the growing numbers of 108 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: single persons in the world and in Israel as well, 109 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: and despite that there is so much scholarly literature on 110 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: family and marriage and parenthood and couplehood, at the time 111 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: when I wrote my PhD, or when I began thinking 112 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: about what's what my PhD will be about, there was 113 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: hardly any interesting literature about single food, nothing which really 114 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: reflected the complexity of um, of the singlehood existence. And 115 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: what really bothered me is that how come despite UM, 116 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: the you know that our lives are are changing, and 117 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: um there is so much of course, with many limits, 118 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: but there is so much relatively more tolerance towards um 119 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: single motherhood. Of course, it depends where towards um queer 120 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: marriage or queer couplehood or quick parenthood. Of course, it 121 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: depends where and how these things are far are far 122 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 1: from being perfect. But what really amazed me was that 123 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: despite you know, this rapidly changing reality, the stigmas and 124 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: stereotypes against single persons is so strong. And what really 125 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: made me said is that so many single persons believe 126 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: in these stereotypes and stigmas and internalize them, and UM 127 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: constantly ask themselves why am I, sing know, what's wrong 128 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: with me? Why has everyone's else succeeded in their lives this? 129 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: And I'm the only one who's just you know, an 130 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: internal bridemaid or an eternal ant who is looking after 131 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 1: someone else's children. And I knew that the answer wouldn't be, 132 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: you know, a simple answer, because to say, oh, because 133 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 1: marriage is perceived to be a better and safer and 134 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: marriage is you know, related to UM two notions of 135 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: adulthood and success in life and respectability and civility, it's 136 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: not a good enough answer. And I discovered that this 137 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: field was really under theorized, and UM that most social 138 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: theory and even feminist theory is really not interested in 139 00:09:55,760 --> 00:10:01,599 Speaker 1: the single lives of men and women, and UM is 140 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: mainly preoccupied with the family and parenthood and couplehood as 141 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: the basic unit of analysis. UM. So my aim was 142 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: also you know, scholarly, to you know, to to engage 143 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: in a new field of research which I felt would 144 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: matter too many people's lives and could make a significant, 145 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: hopefully change in the way they perceived themselves. And also politically, 146 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: you know, to to change the way singlehood is perceived 147 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: and related and talked about, to talk about singlehood in 148 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: a different way. Well, I noticed that a lot of 149 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: your work touches on columns that are featured on why net, 150 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: Israel's leading internet portal, and so I'm interested in sort 151 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: of the cultural aspect of of your research and wondered 152 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: how much of it is shaped by Israeli attitudes towards 153 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: single women and if you found that those attitudes differ 154 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: from region to region or culture to culture. Mm hmm. Well, Um, 155 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: Israel is very pro natal and a pro familiar society. Um, 156 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: women's biggest achievement is considered to have babies and to 157 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: marry well and to have their own house and um, 158 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: you know, continue the legacy. And so that's you know, 159 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: the one of the vantage points that Israel is really 160 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: very familiar and nattles and the pronatal society it encourages 161 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: in birth. Um in really in in in in a 162 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: respect that you can't even begin to imagine in terms 163 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: of the state support, for example, in fertility clinics. And 164 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: you know, um, and the way you know, um, people 165 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: from a very certain age from a sorry from a 166 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: young age perceived the message, you know that to be 167 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: a citizen, to be a person, to be human, to 168 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: be a social person means um to be part of 169 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: a couple and to have children. Now, what really surprises me, um, 170 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: throughout the years that I've been thinking about singlehood, researching singlehood, 171 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: that the differences are aren't that dramatic between Israel and 172 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: other places I've you know, studied and read about and 173 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, scholars I've encountered during the years I've been 174 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: researching singlehood and um, so I can't say, you know, 175 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: in this country it is less, it is less a 176 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: catastrophe than in others. I think that there are tremendous differences. 177 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: Is between the big cities to the small cities, between 178 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: you know, um, the center and periphery and um the 179 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,959 Speaker 1: When you live in a certain urban settings, you might 180 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: have a wider single community or more I wouldn't say 181 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: a single community, but more single persons living and you know, 182 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: living arrangements which aren't slowly based on being in a 183 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: family unit. So I think that's one kind of difference 184 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: which is important to note. Of course, there are differences 185 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: between Israel and place in other places in the world, 186 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: in which the possibility economically and socially to be single 187 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: is almost impossible, and that you know creates you know. 188 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: Studies about, for example, about singlehood in India show that 189 00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: that it's really you can't even begin to come pair 190 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: of being single in in Israel and being single in India. 191 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: But of course, when I say Israel, it's not just 192 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: one thing. You know, Um, there are so many differences 193 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: in Israel. In it is highly significant if you are 194 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: religious or not religious, if you are Jewish or Palestinian, 195 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: if you live in the village or you live in 196 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: the big city. Um, all these parameters. Um, you know, 197 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:38,119 Speaker 1: our part of um being a single woman and enabling 198 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 1: you to be single or not to be single. So 199 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: to make a cross cultural comparison, I must say I 200 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: didn't find that very useful when I read about single 201 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: hood because, um, what really surprised me when reading about 202 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: singlehood in other countries is the how, um, how in 203 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: most societies, even if there can be very liberal or 204 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: radical or very open towards you know, other forms of living, 205 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: or even embracing more open views about even minorities or 206 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: sexual minorities, or having a more radical political agenda, when 207 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: it concerns couplehood and and children. UM. I was always 208 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: under the impression that it's fairly a traditional state of mind. 209 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: And I assume that there are places in the world 210 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: where being single is might be less problematic than in 211 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: other places. But it's very hard to make these generalizations. 212 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. That I found more during the year. 213 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: During these years I've been researching singlehood, I definitely found 214 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: more similarities than differences. How interesting, Well you talked about 215 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: being surprised or or not surprised by some of the 216 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: differences that you found. UM, But has anything surprised you 217 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: in terms of attitudes that you've uncovered about single people, 218 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: or even statistically speaking, has anything surprised you the extent 219 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: the extent of the fear from being a single person 220 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: and what singlehood represents UM in the public you know, 221 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: in public culture that I must say surprised me doing 222 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: doing my research. I remember when I just began UM, 223 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: someone who just graduated it from Harvard UM said to me, 224 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: what is there to to write about single hood? It's 225 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: a pathology. You know, single people should just go to 226 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: a doctor and get medication or go to go to treatment. 227 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: This is you know, nothing worthy to write about. UM. 228 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: And this was you know, a very this was an 229 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: intellectual historian, UM, someone who whose political views are pretty 230 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: radical relatively to most people I know, and UM and 231 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: I found that this first common comment was really common, 232 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: whether it was explicit or implicit. You know that single 233 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: hood in many ways is a disease. There is something 234 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: wrong with you emotionally, UM, something that you didn't manage 235 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 1: to do right. You should cure yourself and be like 236 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: everyone else, you know, what's the problem. So you know, 237 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: make an effort, you know, work on yourself and it 238 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: will and just be like everyone else. What's what's the problem. 239 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: So this, this really surprised me, the extent of the 240 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: fear and the stigmas and the disbelief of UM, of 241 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: single hood as existing as an option for living, just 242 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,119 Speaker 1: as an option for living, you know, whether you are 243 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: single for five years or forty years, you know, just 244 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: enabling it as a possibility, one possibility of you know, 245 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: being in this world as a man, as a woman, 246 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: as as a as a group. And this is still 247 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: not grasped as a possibility that someone would actually be 248 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: content or be at peace with because you know, there 249 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: are these are all these assumptions that no one wants 250 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: to be alone, or you will die alone, or you know, 251 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: all these truth claims which are very hard to challenge, 252 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: and you know you and they are backed by very 253 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: naturalized and essentialist m assumptions about what makes our lives 254 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: worthy living or what makes our lives you know, the 255 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: good lives and the happy lives. So I must say that, 256 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: you know, while writing about it, and you know, analyzing 257 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: the different texts, that was always amazed to discover that. 258 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: And also you know, when I constantly talked about my research. 259 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: For example, one of the questions which i'm which I'm 260 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: regularly asked, well are you a single person? And you know, 261 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: I use really have answered that that if I would 262 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: have lectured now about um, I don't know economical inequalities, 263 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: which if you asked me what my salary is, which 264 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: you know is this is a kind of a deal, 265 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: legitimate automatic um, you know, just ruling out everything you 266 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: have to say, just you know, assuming that you know, 267 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: you have to prove now that you are competent um 268 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: even to do this research, which narrows everything down if 269 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: you're a single person or not a single person, Well, 270 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: have you uncovered any responses to single women or or 271 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: single hood that differ based on gender. Are men or 272 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: other women more likely to view single women negatively? Um? Well, 273 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: I think that women, um are subjected to a lot 274 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: of pressure because you know all these beliefs biological clock 275 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: and you know the traditional role role and even you 276 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: know a destiny of a woman should be you know, 277 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: a mother and a bride. You know what what kind 278 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: of femininity can you um perform um without um having 279 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: or performing these these roles. But I think it's very 280 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 1: much also related to you know, the question of age 281 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: and time. I think that women are under a lot 282 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: of pressure from a younger age. But um, I must 283 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: say that single men after a certain age are also 284 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: subjected to a lot of questioning and a lot of 285 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: judgments and a lot of stereotypes like why haven't you married? 286 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: There is probably something really wrong with him? And you know, 287 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: how does one take care of of of oneself if 288 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: he's still single and constantly trying to match you know, 289 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: eligible partners for them. And so there are differences, but 290 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: I think that at a certain age, men suffer a 291 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: lot from these sterotaps as well. So interesting, UM, because 292 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: my next question was about whether other constructs, not just gender, 293 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: but other constructs like age, race, and class. Whether they 294 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: make a difference both in terms of the people being 295 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: judged for being single and the people who are doing 296 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: the judging. Have you found that yeah, of course, well, age, 297 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: of course is a significant parameter because you know, let's 298 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: ask ourselves when the singlehood begin and when the singlehood end, 299 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: because you know, we are all single when we are born, 300 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: but we become single when marriage becomes an option or 301 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: when couplehood becomes an option. So you become a single 302 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: as opposed to you know, as opposed to the marriage 303 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: or the couple. And of course there is a phase 304 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: which changes a lot, and this is um the place 305 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 1: where you know, um religion makes a significant um change, 306 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of attitudes in which in what 307 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: age should a woman or a man marry, and of 308 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: course different cultures and there are there is an age 309 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: which even you know, society tells us don't hurry, you know, experiment, 310 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: you know, live with your boyfriend or girlfriend, study, you know, um, 311 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: live on your own, travel around the world, you know, 312 00:23:55,119 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: be independent, you know, establish yourself as a person, come 313 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: to marriage life and family life prepared. And then I 314 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: would say, at a certain stage, you know, um, it 315 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: becomes less tolerant and you know, your singlehood is not 316 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: so tolerated anymore, and um, you're become you know, there 317 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 1: is more and more pressure. Again. It could be very explicit, 318 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: and it could be implicit. You know, it could be 319 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, um sentences such as what's wrong with you? 320 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: Or let's fix you up, you know, with someone we 321 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: met on the bus, blah blah blah. Everyone can ask 322 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: you why you're single and what you're going to do 323 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: with it, and it could be you know, um, manifested, 324 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, in long silences and staring at you as 325 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: the only single person in a wedding or in a 326 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: dinner in which everyone comes as a couple, as a 327 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: couple unit. Now and of course there is a certain 328 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: stage in which in your single hood life course that 329 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: you are not relevant anymore, that you've missed your train, 330 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: that um, there is no longer any you know, any 331 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: any attempts to pull you into the heteronormative familial order. So, 332 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: of course age makes a huge, a huge, a huge 333 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: um difference because actually it shapes the way, it shapes 334 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: what single hood is and what it means and what 335 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: it signifies singlehood at seventeen is nothing like single hood 336 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: at twenty four or thirty four or sixty four. It's 337 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: not the same. It's it's an entirely different social world 338 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: and perception of who are the singles now. Class, of 339 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: course also matters a lot, because some people cannot afford 340 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: to be single. Some people need to be married to 341 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: survive economically. You know, in in certain societies, being single 342 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: is a privilege, is a privilege of being in having 343 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: the possibility of, um, taking care of yourself by your 344 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: own income or by your family income. And you know, 345 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: many many people, um, have no choice but um, but 346 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: to marry in order to be supported economically. UM. That's that's, 347 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: you know, something we have to bear in mind. So 348 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: when we talk about, for example, of the single by 349 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: choice movement, if such a thing, um, if we can 350 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: say that such a thing exists, I'm very I'm very 351 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: critical about this term because it actually excludes many people 352 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: who cannot choose to be single because they don't have 353 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:07,120 Speaker 1: their resources to be single, whether economical resources or whether 354 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, even in terms of being a necessariety in 355 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: which it is a possibility. Well, do you think the 356 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: choice when it comes to the single by choice movement. 357 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: Why do you think it is so disruptive, especially if 358 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: you're if you're broadcasting, are talking about the choice that 359 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: you've made to remain single. Why is that scene is 360 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: so disruptive to so many people or to society. It's 361 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: a very big question. It's a very long answer. But 362 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,240 Speaker 1: but but first again, I want to stress that that 363 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: I don't like the notion of choice or the rhetoric 364 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: of choice because it um it it misses out a 365 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: lot of the complexities of our lives in which you know, 366 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: and I think also in terms of the single existence, 367 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: you know, I think um choices is a limited term 368 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: because you always choose from a limited you know, possibilities 369 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: that you have, and some people have more possibilities than others. 370 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: So that's, you know, one one part of my answer 371 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: to your question. Now, I think that um the single 372 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: by choice is so disruptive and so discredited because of 373 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: these assumptions that no one in the right mind could 374 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: possibly wish to be alone, you know. This is this 375 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: being alone is conceived as a punishment, you know, and 376 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: something that no one would possibly want to So this 377 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: is I think one belief that you know, people say 378 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: it's against nature, you know, and automatically, you know, these 379 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: people who claim we are comfortable with being single or 380 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: it's okay, you know, to day, I'm fine with being single. 381 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what will happen tomorrow, but today I'm fine. 382 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: I enjoy my I'm enjoying my life. I have my 383 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: hobbies and I enjoy being you know, meeting with friends, 384 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: having a rich community life, volunteering, having a career. You know, 385 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: you there are so many options of living your life 386 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: which are not necessarily you know, boiled down to family 387 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: and children. So but this very claim is automatically discredited, 388 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: as you know, I think that often people say, oh, 389 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: he's just I'm lying to himself, or she's just pretending 390 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: to being comfortable in being single. At the moment, you know, 391 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: the right guy will come, or the right guy will propose, 392 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: she will, you know, automatically forget this stupid, you know ideology. 393 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: She's just covering up her failure. And these beliefs are 394 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: very strong, you know, it's very hard um to deconstruct 395 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: them because there are related to the very fact you 396 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: know that no one in their right mind or no 397 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: one could possibly dream or wish for the possibility of 398 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: not having a husband, or not having or not being 399 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: a mother or a father. So I think it's part 400 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: of it. It's a long answer, it's a much it's 401 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: it's not a short answer, but it's part of an answer. 402 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: I can I can try to well. I mean, it's 403 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: definitely complex, but it is still but it is still 404 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: very disruptive. It's it is really unbelievable how much anger 405 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: and disbelief and and mainly, you know, people don't want 406 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: to listen, you know, to these voices. And there are 407 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: these voice says. They exist, they exist in you know, 408 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: in self help books, and a wonderful scholar from Australia 409 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: has written about it, and I have written about it 410 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: in Hebrew as well. There are these online columns and 411 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: online blogs and you know, and Bella di Paolo, she's 412 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: a wonderful um singlehood scholar psychologists psychologists UM from the 413 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: States who regularly writes about it and tries, you know, 414 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: to change the what she terms of single ism as 415 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: a discrimination and um discrimination and stereotypes that single person 416 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: are subject to. So there are these voices, but there 417 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 1: are constantly silenced and um and you know, just oh, 418 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: they're not serious. Oh, they're just it's temporary, because singlehood 419 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: is always conceived or perceived as something which can only 420 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: be a temperary me not something that one could relatively that, 421 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: not one that one could possibly, not relatively possibly would 422 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: wish for. This is not the dream that we've been 423 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: raised on, you know. This is not what we've been 424 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: told when we were when we were three and four, 425 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: we were told that one day he'll come along the 426 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 1: men I love, and he'll be being as strong the 427 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: men I love, and when he comes my way, I'll 428 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: do my best to make him stay the prince charming myth. Yeah, yeah, definitely, 429 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: And we've been socialized. It's very hard to to to 430 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: debut this well since people since people do tend to 431 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: view singlehood as this transitory, temporary phase on the way 432 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: to marriage and babies and prince charming. Um. I'm interested 433 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: in in asking you about your study singlehood Waiting in 434 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: the Sociology of Time, because in it you talk about 435 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: the issue of women and waiting in a way that 436 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: I've never really considered before. You write, the social representation 437 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: of waiting to be married is still more visible when 438 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: it concerns women, and so how do you think that 439 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: things like time or in this case specifically waiting become 440 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: gendered like that. How are they so different for women? 441 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,719 Speaker 1: Mm hmm, it's a good question. Um. Well, first of all, um, 442 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: what what doing? Surprised me when I began looking into 443 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: singlehood because actually my first thought was writing about single 444 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: hood and emotions, you know, of how emotions are constructed 445 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: in relation to single hood, emotions such as, um, shame 446 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: for example, the shame of single hood or the shame 447 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: of being single. And when I when I began analyzing 448 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: the text and you know, going through the literature, I 449 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: was surprised that most of the sayings which concern single 450 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: women are related to time. For example, um, you're about 451 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: to miss your train or soon at your wedding. You know, 452 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: inhabrew it a very popular wish When you wish someone 453 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 1: you know at a wedding or at a or even 454 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: at a birthday party, you automatically say, oh soon at 455 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: your soon, at yours? There you are about to need 456 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: to be next, you are next in line, and you 457 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: know you constantly ask when and you know, and when 458 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: is this going to happen? And why haven't you settled 459 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: down yet? And our language when we think of um. 460 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: Of single hood is really written with UM perceptions of 461 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: time and the very fact that you know that the 462 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: perception of single hood as a transitory phase is related 463 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 1: as you know, just waiting waiting for for this UM person, 464 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: for your soul mate to come along and rescue you 465 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: from your endless and hopeless sometimes wait. And this is 466 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: something that is very difficult to UM to debunk in 467 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: terms of thinking about singlehood not as a waiting position, 468 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: because you you view your whole life as temporary and 469 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: at times not meaningful, which can only be meaningful when 470 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: this waiting phase will end. Now waiting and and this 471 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: has been argued by by really wonderful scholars who have 472 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: studied the phenomena of waiting that waiting also reflects relations 473 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: of power and UM. There are those who are way 474 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: thing and there are those who are waited for Let's 475 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: think for example of the doctor. So the very fact 476 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: that you are you are defined as a person in 477 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: waiting means that you are vulnerable, that you have less power, 478 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: that you have less agency, that you are waiting for 479 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: something UM, for something real, something better to happen to 480 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: your life and change it. You can also look by 481 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: the way about two. You can also look at UM 482 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: commercials for dating websites. One of the most popular UM 483 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: I think it was metchcom um metch dot com was 484 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, stop waiting to start dating. And this is, 485 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: you know, a slogan which repeats itself in many slogans. 486 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: You know, take responsibility for your life. Stop waiting, because 487 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: the worst scenario is to be in this position, you know, 488 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: of being passive, of just waiting for, you know, for 489 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: your life to to change. So it just means that 490 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 1: your life at the moment is not really worthy. It's 491 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 1: not really um you don't really have something meaningful in 492 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: your life until you engage in in marriage and children. 493 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,799 Speaker 1: That's the sort of message I think many women from 494 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: a certain age encounter in all kinds of messages they perceive. Well, so, 495 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 1: at what point do you think that women go from 496 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: being smart about being or seen as being smart about 497 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 1: being selective, to being seen as just a wasting time 498 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: and being too selective in their search for a mate 499 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: or even in just just existing not even actively searching 500 00:37:53,960 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: for a mate. Yeah. Well, again comes the parameter or 501 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: the factor of time of age and time, because you know, 502 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: you can be select beggars cannot be choosers. Right, So, 503 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: when you're in a position in which allegedly the social 504 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: perceptions UM are that you have, you know you can 505 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 1: select because you're in the right age, you have the 506 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,879 Speaker 1: right looks, UM, you're in the right you know, kind 507 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,440 Speaker 1: of social circle in which you can you can find 508 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,280 Speaker 1: your find your lid. Then you know you're smart about 509 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: being selective. You're not. You know, you're not in a hurry. 510 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: Your selectiveness is even admired. You know you have you know, 511 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 1: you have all the possibilities. But as a single woman, 512 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: you know is UM can be at the risk of 513 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: gradually turning into an old maid. Then her selectiveness become 514 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: just you know, another form of self deception or even 515 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, a pathology. UM. There is even this term 516 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: called chronic single hood, into which means you know that 517 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: there are people you know who are just too selective, 518 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: you know who just you know, are just trapped in 519 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: their own selectiveness and choosingness. And in that respect, you know, 520 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: when you say beggars cannot be choosers, you refer to 521 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 1: women about a certain age as someone who do who 522 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: does not have too many options, and therefore her selectiveness 523 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: is just empty and there are so many contradictory messages 524 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: which are single women you know, encounter you know, just compromise, 525 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, just do the right thing. And you know, 526 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: many single women ask how can I compromise? Compromise and 527 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: what And you know, it's very funny to the all 528 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: these self help guides and all these online columns and 529 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: you know, meet and experts, you know, having you know, 530 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: this kind of solution on how to compromise. So basically, 531 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,439 Speaker 1: selectiveness at a certain age is not an option. It's 532 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: is just a disguise. It is a pathology. It's a 533 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: very interesting transition. Well, I wonder whether our pop culture 534 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 1: is helping or hurting in terms of the image that 535 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: we have of the single woman, especially the single woman 536 00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,320 Speaker 1: above a certain age. And so what do you what 537 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: do you think what does it mean for us? That's 538 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:44,320 Speaker 1: so many movie and TV plots about single women and 539 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,960 Speaker 1: with their redemption through finally finding a man. You know, 540 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: you have Bridget Jones and Sex in the City, and 541 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: both of the protagonists in those plots were women, you know, 542 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: who weren't twenty four anymore. So, So what do you think? 543 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 1: What do think that says about us? Well? I think 544 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,719 Speaker 1: that I'm really you asked me before if I was surprised, 545 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: So I'm still surprised how traditional and how conservative popular 546 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: culture is when it comes to um perceptions of single hood. 547 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 1: Sometimes my students asked me if if I know any 548 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 1: alternatives social scripts which are represented in movies or television series, 549 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: and it's very hard to find ones. It's it's quite 550 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: surprising how rare are these alternative scripts of single hood 551 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: as a form of living, you know, as a way 552 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: of living just as you know, you choose or you 553 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 1: don't choose, or you know, just as just as another 554 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: aspect of your life, not totally depicting who you are 555 00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: and what you are. But um, there is always you know, 556 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: this this character of you know, of this single woman 557 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: who just you know, all she wants to do is 558 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: you know, be rescued and be saved by by Prince Charming. Um. 559 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: So I think that popular culture, UM unfortunately has yet 560 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: to offer single women and I think men alternative images 561 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: of singlehood. There are these alternatives online, which is fascinating 562 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: in terms of blogs and in terms of online columns, 563 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: and in terms of self help books, but in main 564 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 1: most mainstream movies and television series, it is so traditional 565 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: and conservative even when it presents itself as something radical, 566 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 1: and it again it shows us, you know, how these 567 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:04,799 Speaker 1: perceptions are so um strongly embedded in you know, our 568 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: collective perceptions of what is perceived to be, you know, 569 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: the right life course or the good and worthy lives. Well, 570 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: so far, not only our conversation, but really a lot 571 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: of the whether it's columns you read online or the 572 00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: self help type books that you read, a lot of 573 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: those conversations pretty much focus on single heterosexual women. And 574 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,719 Speaker 1: so I'm wondering if you have found that any of 575 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: the attitudes and other things you've uncovered in your research, 576 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: if any of those attitudes and social pressures and stereotypes 577 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: also affect lesbian and bisexual women. Yes, definitely, definitely, So 578 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: I think that, Um, of course I haven't studied it, 579 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: but I am interested in that. And surprisingly, there is 580 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,759 Speaker 1: hardly any research done about that issue, and I hope 581 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: there will be at a certain stage, you know, because 582 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,200 Speaker 1: singlehood is gradually becoming um, there are more and more 583 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: people writing about singlehood. So I'm waiting, I'm a scholar 584 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: in waiting for someone um to engage in that. But 585 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:24,760 Speaker 1: from what I read and from my general impression. Of course, 586 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,760 Speaker 1: there are differences and the expectations can be are articulated 587 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 1: in a different way or in a different you know, terminology. 588 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: But UM, in Israel, I could definitely say that there 589 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,800 Speaker 1: are there is a very interesting baby boom among you know, 590 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 1: also homosexuals and UM, bisexuals and UM lesbians and um. 591 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: They are also becoming more and more subjected to a 592 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,320 Speaker 1: lot of pressures of being up old and having children 593 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:06,480 Speaker 1: and UM there are many you know, UM, there is 594 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 1: in what Lisa Dagon you know terms as homonormativity. I 595 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:16,880 Speaker 1: can definitely say that, um, you are expected to be 596 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,000 Speaker 1: in a couple in in in many ways, which it 597 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: has of course differences in terms of age, you know, 598 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: the age limit is a bit different. But my own 599 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: perception is that also if you look at most UM 600 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,560 Speaker 1: move most of the traditional movies or mainstream movies in 601 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: which um um homosexual or lesbians are so little which 602 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: concern UM, so few which concern bisexuals. But UM still 603 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,919 Speaker 1: you know, the plot usually is with a happy ending, 604 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: or the plot usually revolved around you know, it's a 605 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: plot about you know, couplehood and having affairs and UM. 606 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: Now more and more UM more and more TV series 607 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: gauge of course with questions of parenthood. But um, it 608 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: is interesting that the very transition or you know, the 609 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,760 Speaker 1: if in certain parts of society there is more legitimacy. 610 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: It is also this kind of legitimacy comes the expectation 611 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: to be and of course I'm I'm not saying it, 612 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, as something I mean, you know, to become normal, 613 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: to become like us. And um, what Lisa Duggan talks 614 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: about when she talks about home and normativity is you know, 615 00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: being like us, is you know, entering you know, the 616 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: couple unit and reproducing like us, being part of society. 617 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: This is considered by many, you know, as an indication 618 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 1: of being normal, being healthy, being acceptable. So essentially what 619 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,400 Speaker 1: you're saying is that as society basically becomes more okay 620 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 1: with uh, the lgbt Q community, a sign of that 621 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: is also saying okay, well you're here and we accept you, 622 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: and now you better start getting married and having babies 623 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: to fit into society. Yeah, yeah, you know, of course 624 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 1: it's a very you know, general way of saying it. 625 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,319 Speaker 1: And of course, and of course they were we're still 626 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,279 Speaker 1: very very far you know, the l g two B 627 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: movement is still you know, suffers from a lot of 628 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:43,720 Speaker 1: stigmas and stereotypes and discrimination everywhere in so many different ways. 629 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,399 Speaker 1: But I would say that one of the messages that um, 630 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: that um we can hear is Yeah, being normal means 631 00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:02,879 Speaker 1: being you know, performing, you know, heteronormativity is performing as 632 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: being part of society through getting married and having having children. 633 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,240 Speaker 1: This is of course not not my claim. A couple 634 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: of very interesting queer queer scholars have have argued it 635 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,360 Speaker 1: before me. And that's a fascinating topic, right to think about, 636 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, about the possibility of being single about a 637 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: certain age, you know, at different um sexual orientations. Well, 638 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 1: Dr Laha, do you've you've basically answered all of my questions, 639 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: all of my very many questions for you. And so 640 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, is there anything about single hood or single stigma, 641 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: or or single women in general that you feel like 642 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: we didn't touch on that you think our listeners would 643 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,520 Speaker 1: be interested in. Um, there is one thing, and this 644 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,440 Speaker 1: is something now that I've been thinking a lot about, 645 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,000 Speaker 1: is how to politicize singlehood in terms of how to 646 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,800 Speaker 1: talk about single hood which is not only related, you know, 647 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:06,040 Speaker 1: in which does not only relate with the need to 648 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:12,279 Speaker 1: combat stereotypes and and and you know, and and debunking 649 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: this equation you know of single hood being unmarried, etcetera, etcetera. 650 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,640 Speaker 1: And I think that one of the one of the 651 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,520 Speaker 1: things we need to do is to start thinking of 652 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,720 Speaker 1: singlehood as another way of living, not as a different 653 00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: way of living, as another way of living. And talk 654 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:38,479 Speaker 1: more about how UM, single persons are discriminated in terms 655 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: of their taxes, that they pay much more taxes in 656 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 1: terms of that in most societies, UM, the accommodation and 657 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 1: living arrangements are not suited for a single person's UM. 658 00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:57,279 Speaker 1: You know, talk about you know, as every you know 659 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: claim make you know, public clear aims, and talk about 660 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:07,520 Speaker 1: rights and UM, not be in in this position in 661 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:13,560 Speaker 1: which you have to apologize or justify your singlehood. Let's say, listen, 662 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm single, I'm a single person, and I'm discriminated economically, 663 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 1: and let's do something about it. And it's pretty interesting 664 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 1: that there is hardly any you know, UM when you 665 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,200 Speaker 1: look you know at politics, and you look at you know, 666 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: at political manifestos and um, you know, the politicians agenda. 667 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,880 Speaker 1: You know, everyone speaks in the name of the family, 668 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,360 Speaker 1: but no one thinks that, you know, single hood is 669 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:51,480 Speaker 1: something that should be you know, represented and um fought for. 670 00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:56,640 Speaker 1: And I think that's the next step. Yeah, absolutely, And 671 00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,960 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's a whole other topic in terms 672 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: of politics and economics that we did not even get into. 673 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,960 Speaker 1: But that is very important. I think it's really really important. 674 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:15,240 Speaker 1: And and and as I mentioned before, the Paolo wrote 675 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:20,320 Speaker 1: writes about it, and Rachel Muen, who is a legal scholar, 676 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: wrote many years ago and wonderful article which the title 677 00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 1: of this article is why has said Why has Second 678 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,879 Speaker 1: way feminism forgot the single woman? And unfortunately I can 679 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 1: say that about third wave feminism and even fourth wave 680 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 1: feminism and feminism today. You know, it is not on 681 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:47,719 Speaker 1: the agenda of feminist organizations or a feminist theory or 682 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,719 Speaker 1: you know, queer queer movements or human rights movement. It's 683 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:57,280 Speaker 1: is it is not existent not it is not existent 684 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:02,400 Speaker 1: as an option cognitively and even you know, politically in 685 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 1: the public sphere. And I think that you know, this transition, 686 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: this cognitive transition in our perceptions of what is single 687 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:15,680 Speaker 1: hood can also and should also occur in terms of 688 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:23,480 Speaker 1: new kinds of thinking about single hood in political terms. Absolutely. Well, 689 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,200 Speaker 1: thank you so much for talking to me today. And 690 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: could you please tell our listeners where they can find 691 00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,239 Speaker 1: out more both about you and about your research, and 692 00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:39,520 Speaker 1: if you have any other further reading suggestions for them. Oh, 693 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,480 Speaker 1: that's a wonderful question about further reading for them. Well. 694 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,240 Speaker 1: The first of all is Bella di Paolos. I've mentioned 695 00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: her before. She has um some wonderful She has her 696 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,239 Speaker 1: own blog. If you just google her you can find 697 00:52:54,320 --> 00:53:00,200 Speaker 1: a lot of information about single hood and c and H. 698 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,719 Speaker 1: There are some wonderful books who have been published um 699 00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 1: on this matter. Reynolds who wrote about the discursive um 700 00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,759 Speaker 1: or I forgot now the name, but Joe Reynolds who 701 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,080 Speaker 1: wrote about a single hood, and Elaine trim Burger who 702 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,719 Speaker 1: has written about the single woman as well. And um 703 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,560 Speaker 1: Anita Taylor who has published her book on singlehood about 704 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: two years ago, which is also very enriching. My own 705 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:40,120 Speaker 1: articles can be found on wonderful website which is called academia. 706 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,520 Speaker 1: You can just um look me up academia dot com 707 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,880 Speaker 1: and there you know, I have a couple of my 708 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: articles online. And hopefully in a year UM the book 709 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: will be published and I'll be happier and some of 710 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,440 Speaker 1: my thoughts are expressed there as well. Well, wonderful. I 711 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,400 Speaker 1: can't wait to pick up your book, even if we 712 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,759 Speaker 1: do have to wait for a year. Yeah, is part 713 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:11,960 Speaker 1: of our living. Yeah, bringing it all back to waiting 714 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:16,279 Speaker 1: in time. That's right. Yeah, Well, thank you so much again, 715 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:25,480 Speaker 1: it was such a pleasure talking to you. Likewise, so 716 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:28,120 Speaker 1: thank you so much to Dr Lahad for speaking with 717 00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:32,439 Speaker 1: us and offering some reading recommendations. And if you want 718 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: to read more of Dr Lahad's work, she has a 719 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,719 Speaker 1: profile over at Academia dot e D you and just 720 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: search for her name, which is k i in in 721 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:48,720 Speaker 1: e r e t l a h A d kinner 722 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,880 Speaker 1: it Lahad. Well, and now we want to hear from you. 723 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: We've already gotten some great letters about our Single by 724 00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,240 Speaker 1: Choice episode, but we want to hear what your thoughts 725 00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,880 Speaker 1: are about sort of your life as a single person 726 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,399 Speaker 1: or if you have single friends. Have you experienced any 727 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,480 Speaker 1: level of sort of social panic about your own relationship status. 728 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,520 Speaker 1: Let us know, mom Stuff at house Stuffworks dot com 729 00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: is our email address. You can also tweet us at 730 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,799 Speaker 1: Mom's Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got 731 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,239 Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you right now. 732 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 1: So conveniently, we have a couple of letters here about 733 00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:33,320 Speaker 1: our previous episode on the single Bye Choice movement. This 734 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,239 Speaker 1: one's from Vette. She says, I've seen Kristen's videos for 735 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 1: a while, and only this past week I found your podcast. 736 00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,439 Speaker 1: Welcome Evette, She says, love all the topics you cover. 737 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,480 Speaker 1: Your most recent one on being single is pretty on point. Yes, 738 00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,520 Speaker 1: I told myself at thirteen years old that I would 739 00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,480 Speaker 1: be okay with never getting married. I confess this in 740 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,640 Speaker 1: seventh grade sex ed class. My Catholic school called it 741 00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,520 Speaker 1: family life, and boys and girls were split into two 742 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,839 Speaker 1: separate classrooms and teacher, to which my teacher responded, oh, 743 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: you'll find Mr Wright one day. You never know. And 744 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: I remember even my friends were like, you don't want 745 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,400 Speaker 1: to get married. Some even suggested to me to become 746 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,799 Speaker 1: a nun. I was a bit more Catholic at the time. 747 00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,600 Speaker 1: It's pretty sad to see thirteen year old girls being 748 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:18,840 Speaker 1: weirded out by the fact that at that age I 749 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: didn't want to get married. Of course, later on in 750 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,880 Speaker 1: life this question would come up every so often. It 751 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,160 Speaker 1: gets worse when my Mexican family gets involved. Although lately, 752 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,480 Speaker 1: they've been more easy on me with being okay with 753 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 1: that choice. I've had one serious relationship, and after we 754 00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,080 Speaker 1: broke up, I forgot what it was like to be single. 755 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,680 Speaker 1: I've been single for the past five years, and I 756 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,000 Speaker 1: enjoy it a lot. I don't need to break the 757 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:43,440 Speaker 1: bank on dates, and I used that money to good use, 758 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,000 Speaker 1: mostly for paying off student loans and traveling. Plus I 759 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,560 Speaker 1: like spending time with friends more when I can. If 760 00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,560 Speaker 1: I did find that someone, I would be okay with 761 00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,440 Speaker 1: cohabitating with them until things didn't work out. Kids are 762 00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,160 Speaker 1: out of the question for me for now. I'm twenty four, 763 00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,920 Speaker 1: and it does get weird when I see all these 764 00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 1: people I went to school with engaged and married and 765 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,920 Speaker 1: having babies, and I'm just here like, well, good for them, 766 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,960 Speaker 1: I guess, but aren't we still too young? So yeah, 767 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:12,279 Speaker 1: single life for the wind. Thank you, Vette. And I've 768 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,440 Speaker 1: got a letter here from Louise, and she writes, I 769 00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: just finished listening to the Single by Choice episode and 770 00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,400 Speaker 1: have to say that it resonated with me. I was 771 00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,920 Speaker 1: divorced and have been single by choice ever since. I've 772 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,760 Speaker 1: been the recipient of many of the comments and attitudes 773 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,960 Speaker 1: discussed on the podcast. In the decade after my divorce, 774 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,640 Speaker 1: I was frequently told by men in particular that I 775 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,520 Speaker 1: was being too picky by not finding a second husband. 776 00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,160 Speaker 1: My gut reaction was always huh. I always felt as 777 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,760 Speaker 1: if I was being criticized by men who are neither 778 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:47,240 Speaker 1: good looking nor interesting as individuals. I don't have a 779 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,640 Speaker 1: Monel type body, but I am and always have been 780 00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:54,280 Speaker 1: very active, running, biking, backpacking, kayaking. It was as if 781 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 1: I couldn't live a full and happy life without a 782 00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,920 Speaker 1: man in it. I had the opposite interaction with women, 783 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: and it's something that you didn't discuss in the podcast. 784 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,560 Speaker 1: My female friends often said they were jealous of me 785 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:07,720 Speaker 1: because I could do what I want when I want. 786 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:10,560 Speaker 1: They also felt that not having to discuss or compromise 787 00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,720 Speaker 1: on household issues was a positive thing, especially when it 788 00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,640 Speaker 1: came to decisions about raising my two children. While they 789 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:20,080 Speaker 1: didn't envy my single parenthood, these comments were always honest, 790 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,120 Speaker 1: never meant to be snied or hurtful. I enjoy being 791 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,760 Speaker 1: single and living alone. When my family comes to visit 792 00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,840 Speaker 1: or we go on family vacations, I find that I'm 793 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,960 Speaker 1: always ready by vacations and to be back in my 794 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,200 Speaker 1: apartment and have some alone time. I never regretted my 795 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,160 Speaker 1: single life. I'm fifty four years old and wouldn't trade 796 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,760 Speaker 1: it for anything. People may say that it's because I 797 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,080 Speaker 1: came from quote a broken home or had a quote 798 00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,600 Speaker 1: bad marriage, but aren't we all products of our environments 799 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:48,479 Speaker 1: and gene expressions. I did not choose single life because 800 00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,520 Speaker 1: of negative experiences. I chose a single life because it 801 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,000 Speaker 1: deep down inside it makes me happy, content and fulfilled. 802 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,080 Speaker 1: So thanks for your perspective, Luise, and keep your single 803 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:03,320 Speaker 1: by choice effectives coming. Friends. Mom Stuff at how stuff 804 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 1: works dot com is our email address and for links 805 00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:07,920 Speaker 1: to all of our social media as well as all 806 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:11,040 Speaker 1: of our blogs, videos, and podcasts, including this one with 807 00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,280 Speaker 1: links to Dr Lahad's work. So you can read up 808 00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:17,640 Speaker 1: on more single by choice research. Head on over to 809 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:24,520 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for more on 810 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,120 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff 811 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:27,760 Speaker 1: works dot com