WEBVTT - Empowering Your Recovery Journey 0:00:04.853 --> 0:00:15.013 Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 0:00:18.213 --> 0:00:22.773 I'm super excited for today's guests. She's a speaker, addiction 0:00:22.893 --> 0:00:28.053 recovery advocate, a writer, a holistic wellness coach. She is 0:00:28.213 --> 0:00:31.893 dedicated to empowering women and I've been able to witness 0:00:31.933 --> 0:00:35.013 her journey throughout this whole process, and it's been it's 0:00:35.053 --> 0:00:37.693 been an honor to witness it. And I know you've 0:00:38.013 --> 0:00:43.093 recently celebrated or you have sixteen years of continuous sobriety. 0:00:43.133 --> 0:00:47.253 And most importantly, I think is that after sixteen years, 0:00:47.333 --> 0:00:52.093 you broke your silence around your recovery. So I'm excited 0:00:52.133 --> 0:00:55.373 and I'm excited to introduce to our Comeback Stories family. 0:00:55.973 --> 0:00:57.533 Hillary Phelps, Welcome. 0:00:59.213 --> 0:01:03.453 Thank you, thank you so much for having me. And yeah, 0:01:03.493 --> 0:01:05.853 I've been following your journy me as well, and you 0:01:05.853 --> 0:01:08.093 know you've been such a huge support, So I'm excited 0:01:08.093 --> 0:01:08.933 to have this conversation. 0:01:10.293 --> 0:01:13.853 We start probably like you've used to, You've been used 0:01:13.893 --> 0:01:18.013 to starting sharing your story about growing up, Like what 0:01:18.133 --> 0:01:19.013 was growing up for you? 0:01:19.173 --> 0:01:23.773 Like I mean, I say normal, right, like in the 0:01:23.853 --> 0:01:26.573 sense of I had a really happy childhood. My parents 0:01:26.573 --> 0:01:30.133 were married, had a brother and a sister. I was 0:01:30.133 --> 0:01:32.733 a straight A student. I was a swimmer, so I 0:01:32.773 --> 0:01:35.173 started swimming at the age of seven. I swim competitively 0:01:35.493 --> 0:01:39.933 through college, where I had a college scholarship. But it 0:01:40.053 --> 0:01:42.093 was pretty normal, you know, on the outside. I had 0:01:42.133 --> 0:01:44.493 all of the things that looked really good, meaning I 0:01:44.533 --> 0:01:48.333 was a straight A student, you know, at twelve, and 0:01:48.493 --> 0:01:50.533 at eleven and twelve, I was the fastest swimmer in 0:01:50.533 --> 0:01:54.133 the country for my age group, so it's a distant swimmer. 0:01:54.173 --> 0:01:56.213 I was at Nationals. I was the youngest at national 0:01:56.293 --> 0:01:58.013 So I had all of these things on the outside 0:01:58.053 --> 0:02:03.133 that looked really, really good. And I started, you know, 0:02:03.213 --> 0:02:05.493 as I got kind of into my teens, I started 0:02:05.493 --> 0:02:09.973 to feel not good, you know, and I didn't understand it. 0:02:10.053 --> 0:02:13.133 But you know, my parents are super supportive. You know. 0:02:13.213 --> 0:02:15.773 We went to the beach every summer, you know, kind 0:02:15.773 --> 0:02:18.893 of that traditional American family that you would think of, 0:02:18.973 --> 0:02:23.413 and so I didn't have a lot of you know, 0:02:23.493 --> 0:02:27.653 external trauma growing up. It was pretty it was a 0:02:27.693 --> 0:02:35.013 pretty happy childhood, you know. But at the age of fourteen, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, 0:02:35.053 --> 0:02:37.093 I just started to feel like that, you know, and 0:02:37.133 --> 0:02:39.213 I know, Donnie, we've talked about this, that not good 0:02:39.293 --> 0:02:41.573 enough thing. Like, I just felt not good enough in 0:02:41.653 --> 0:02:44.373 any situation in space I was in. So I was 0:02:44.453 --> 0:02:47.173 never smart enough or pretty enough, or funny enough in 0:02:47.293 --> 0:02:50.293 any room. And that started to become really heavy, and 0:02:50.333 --> 0:02:52.093 that really loud voice in my head that kind of 0:02:52.133 --> 0:02:55.373 overtook everything else, including all the great accomplishments that I've 0:02:55.373 --> 0:02:59.053 had or the external, you know, positive influences. That was 0:02:59.093 --> 0:03:00.493 the one that became the loudest. 0:03:00.693 --> 0:03:05.453 And Coach Donnie coming in here too. Just make sure 0:03:05.493 --> 0:03:08.293 that you're not diminishing just how awesome of a swimmer 0:03:08.333 --> 0:03:10.773 you were. I know that you were, at thirteen years old, 0:03:10.853 --> 0:03:14.053 were the country's fastest swimmer, and you didn't mention that 0:03:14.173 --> 0:03:16.973 in like your little spiel. So I just wanted to 0:03:16.493 --> 0:03:19.413 bring that to the like because that's a big deal. Well, 0:03:19.413 --> 0:03:21.893 it's a big deal. It's a big deal for many reasons. One, 0:03:23.213 --> 0:03:26.373 you were the nation's fastest swimmer, but it still wasn't enough. 0:03:26.413 --> 0:03:28.653 So I know we're going to touch a bunch on that. 0:03:29.533 --> 0:03:31.773 But you know, I think I talk a lot about 0:03:31.773 --> 0:03:35.693 how people with this not enough story achieve a lot. 0:03:36.173 --> 0:03:39.333 It is the not enough story that drives people to 0:03:39.373 --> 0:03:42.853 the top and to the idea or their definition or 0:03:42.853 --> 0:03:47.413 somebody's definition of success. Yeah, Darren's raising his hand for 0:03:47.453 --> 0:03:50.973 those that are listening, Yeah, we got so. Yeah, this 0:03:51.173 --> 0:03:53.573 is I know we're gonna I'm excited for the audience 0:03:53.573 --> 0:03:55.693 to listen to this conversation because I just know it's 0:03:55.693 --> 0:03:58.613 gonna flow and and be natural because your story is 0:03:58.653 --> 0:04:01.933 so much similar to both of ours, and especially Darren's. 0:04:01.973 --> 0:04:03.933 And I'll let Darren chime in a little bit about 0:04:04.293 --> 0:04:06.733 the the commonality between the two of you and the 0:04:06.813 --> 0:04:07.613 not enough story. 0:04:09.253 --> 0:04:12.293 Yeah, I mean I don't even know where to begin. 0:04:12.533 --> 0:04:17.173 I mean, kind of like you said, of having all 0:04:17.213 --> 0:04:20.693 the things on the outside, but just feeling like not good. 0:04:21.173 --> 0:04:25.693 That started happening very early for me, since I was 0:04:25.693 --> 0:04:26.933 a kid. I mean I always knew I was good 0:04:26.933 --> 0:04:30.413 at sports and good in school and stuff like that, 0:04:30.453 --> 0:04:34.253 but it's always something that's just like this is doing nothing, 0:04:35.293 --> 0:04:39.973 and the emptiness and the void kept growing no matter 0:04:40.013 --> 0:04:41.733 how much stuff you fed it, how much stuff you 0:04:41.773 --> 0:04:45.853 tossed into it, even being like in the NFL and 0:04:45.893 --> 0:04:49.173 getting to the NFL and being like, man, this is it, 0:04:49.293 --> 0:04:52.693 like ain't none. There's got to be more to it 0:04:52.813 --> 0:04:55.013 than this, Like this is what I was promised to 0:04:55.013 --> 0:04:59.373 would make me feel happy and successful and you know, 0:04:59.693 --> 0:05:05.853 important and feeling none of those things. And it's just 0:05:05.853 --> 0:05:07.613 a real it's a reality. I fel like it's real 0:05:07.653 --> 0:05:09.453 for people in all walks of life. Not many people 0:05:09.453 --> 0:05:13.333 maybe want to talk about it, but it is a 0:05:13.373 --> 0:05:16.493 it's a real thing. I mean I I still feel 0:05:16.533 --> 0:05:17.173 it sometimes. 0:05:18.693 --> 0:05:20.893 Yeah, it's kind of like that Kyle. You know, the 0:05:20.893 --> 0:05:23.013 more that you pour into it, like the more I did, 0:05:23.173 --> 0:05:24.653 you know, the more I tried to fit in or 0:05:24.693 --> 0:05:27.333 the more you know success with someone said, well, if 0:05:27.373 --> 0:05:29.213 you try and if you train harder, and if you 0:05:29.253 --> 0:05:31.613 study more, you'll be faster and you'll get better grades. 0:05:31.653 --> 0:05:34.013 And I remember I still have this a book report 0:05:34.053 --> 0:05:35.933 that's like a plus plus. And you know, I was 0:05:36.053 --> 0:05:38.253 had National Adsprit records, I had all the things, and 0:05:38.293 --> 0:05:40.653 I was like, oh so that's not good enough. Okay, 0:05:40.653 --> 0:05:42.453 Well I'm going to try harder to be better. And 0:05:42.493 --> 0:05:45.813 it's like you just you know, keep pouring in a 0:05:45.813 --> 0:05:47.413 cup that has a hole in the bottom, right, It 0:05:47.573 --> 0:05:49.733 just is it just no matter how fast you do 0:05:49.773 --> 0:05:51.373 it or how many things do you do to try 0:05:51.413 --> 0:05:55.413 to be better, it just steal. It feels so empty. 0:05:55.573 --> 0:05:57.813 I remember Donnie was sharing that story Aaron about you, 0:05:57.853 --> 0:05:59.693 and I was like what And the way that we 0:05:59.733 --> 0:06:02.413 look at people, I'm like, wait, how how he's amazing 0:06:02.453 --> 0:06:04.813 and he's this incredible football player and he's got what 0:06:05.053 --> 0:06:07.773 And it's like we all have that. Yeah, you know, Donnie, 0:06:07.773 --> 0:06:10.733 You're right, like we all have that feeling not enoughness. 0:06:11.013 --> 0:06:13.373 Yeah. As soon as why we're doing the podcast, you know, 0:06:13.413 --> 0:06:15.973 we've sat, we've had We've had your brother Michael, and 0:06:16.413 --> 0:06:19.333 you know he and it's the same thing, you know, 0:06:19.413 --> 0:06:21.773 And I think this is why we've started it, right 0:06:21.853 --> 0:06:25.093 because people might think when Darren's all armored up in 0:06:25.173 --> 0:06:27.693 his football gear and a helmet, that he's immortal and 0:06:27.773 --> 0:06:32.133 doesn't have a heart and emotions and struggles and like 0:06:32.253 --> 0:06:34.533 all of those things. And so when we have guests 0:06:34.613 --> 0:06:38.413 like yourself, like Deren, like Michael, we can't bankrupt that 0:06:38.493 --> 0:06:41.013 story for that one person that might be sitting there 0:06:41.333 --> 0:06:44.453 right now listening and think that their problems are unique 0:06:44.573 --> 0:06:48.293 or that they they're different. It's like no, because I 0:06:48.373 --> 0:06:50.853 was telling myself the same thing at my rock bottom, 0:06:50.853 --> 0:06:53.453 and the truth was there were plenty of people that 0:06:53.493 --> 0:06:56.213 can relate exactly to what I was going through, and 0:06:56.253 --> 0:06:59.213 they found a way out. But I was telling myself, 0:07:00.293 --> 0:07:03.453 doctor screwed me over. Everybody's out to get me, you know. 0:07:03.613 --> 0:07:06.373 And so this is the importance the stories that we 0:07:06.413 --> 0:07:07.733 tell ourselves. 0:07:07.253 --> 0:07:10.293 Stories, right, I shared this recently. It's like feelings exist, 0:07:10.413 --> 0:07:13.173 like those feelings are last in our body for sixty 0:07:13.213 --> 0:07:15.933 to ninety seconds, like the actual feeling, the anger, the saddest, 0:07:15.973 --> 0:07:18.013 will love, the joy, whatever. And it's the story that 0:07:18.053 --> 0:07:19.893 we tell ourselves over and over again in our mind 0:07:19.933 --> 0:07:23.293 about that emotion that keeps us stuck in it. It's 0:07:23.493 --> 0:07:27.893 and it's and that's so true, that's so true. 0:07:29.133 --> 0:07:31.853 We want to I want to talk a ton about 0:07:31.973 --> 0:07:35.773 just where you're at now and the coaching that you're 0:07:35.773 --> 0:07:38.693 doing specifically to women. And the truth is, like you 0:07:38.773 --> 0:07:40.653 can be a coach and you can send a message 0:07:40.653 --> 0:07:44.213 to women, but I believe that same message men can 0:07:44.253 --> 0:07:47.253 hear that same message if we're talking about speaking our 0:07:47.333 --> 0:07:50.173 voice or losing our voice, or having our emotion or 0:07:50.293 --> 0:07:53.253 feeling our emotions, like this is for everybody. But I 0:07:53.293 --> 0:07:55.533 really want to dive into some of the stuff that 0:07:55.573 --> 0:07:58.213 you do that maybe we can give our listeners some 0:07:58.373 --> 0:08:02.173 applicable tools going into the holidays. Because Darren and I 0:08:02.213 --> 0:08:04.933 have committed to kind of just stepping up and you know, 0:08:05.013 --> 0:08:08.293 bringing guests on that can actually give tools and integrate 0:08:08.373 --> 0:08:12.893 some of of these tools into the challenges. We just passed. Thanksgiving. 0:08:12.973 --> 0:08:17.173 I mean, it's it's it's it's portrayed as these holidays 0:08:17.213 --> 0:08:19.373 with like all these amazing things that happened, but it's 0:08:19.453 --> 0:08:23.653 so challenging for so many people, including myself, you know, 0:08:23.813 --> 0:08:26.453 and so we want to arm our guests with tools. 0:08:26.813 --> 0:08:29.733 Okay, So the first, the best, the best advice I've 0:08:29.773 --> 0:08:32.133 ever given or think I love. Have you heard about, 0:08:32.173 --> 0:08:34.653 you know, Bob Procter, Change Your Paradigm, Change Your Life. 0:08:35.213 --> 0:08:36.813 It's one of the best books I've ever read, and 0:08:36.853 --> 0:08:39.253 I've I've listened to it an audible over ten times. 0:08:39.293 --> 0:08:40.813 Every once in a while pop it on kind of 0:08:40.853 --> 0:08:42.413 like a twelve step meeting and kind of because I 0:08:42.413 --> 0:08:44.333 get something different because I'm in a different space, so 0:08:44.333 --> 0:08:47.213 I hear it differently. But something that we've learned, right, 0:08:47.333 --> 0:08:50.133 is that paradigm of like you should be around family. 0:08:50.293 --> 0:08:53.533 You have to do this, like it doesn't matter their blood, 0:08:53.573 --> 0:08:56.933 and it's like if it's detrimental to your mental emotional 0:08:56.973 --> 0:08:59.773 well being, like we don't have to do anything, you know, 0:08:59.853 --> 0:09:02.093 but that's really hard and it's kind of like getting sober. 0:09:02.133 --> 0:09:03.893 It's like doing that first thing for the first time. 0:09:03.933 --> 0:09:06.253 And you know, something that I've been working with a 0:09:06.293 --> 0:09:10.493 lot of people and recently, or those boundaries because for me, 0:09:11.573 --> 0:09:14.533 because for me, it was like it felt like if 0:09:14.573 --> 0:09:16.853 I say, this is what I need and like keeping 0:09:16.853 --> 0:09:18.893 it to me, like not, you need to do this, 0:09:19.093 --> 0:09:22.453 like you know, I need to leave it since really 0:09:22.493 --> 0:09:24.173 eight o'clock, I need to leave it eight o'clock because 0:09:24.173 --> 0:09:26.613 that's my bedtime. And then people saying like, well, just 0:09:26.613 --> 0:09:29.133 stay another light, just do this, just do this. It's like, no, 0:09:29.293 --> 0:09:31.533 this is what I need for me so I feel better, 0:09:31.573 --> 0:09:34.173 so I'm a better human and they start giving pushback, 0:09:34.333 --> 0:09:37.173 and it's really hard the first time, you know, because 0:09:37.173 --> 0:09:39.013 it's like I'm going to do what I need to 0:09:39.013 --> 0:09:40.573 do for me, and then you get to choose how 0:09:40.613 --> 0:09:43.373 you feel about those boundaries that I'm putting up for myself. 0:09:44.293 --> 0:09:46.813 But that's hard because as someone that's a self sacrificer, 0:09:46.933 --> 0:09:49.733 a people please or all of those things that came along, 0:09:49.733 --> 0:09:51.613 that's why I drank, you know, to try to figure 0:09:51.613 --> 0:09:55.253 out how I can get in. But something that you 0:09:55.253 --> 0:09:57.173 know I've talked about a lot recently, is that it 0:09:57.253 --> 0:09:59.773 wasn't I was never wrong, like our voices, like my 0:09:59.933 --> 0:10:02.653 voice is never wrong, like my voice my intuition. But 0:10:02.693 --> 0:10:05.573 for so long I buried it in alcohol, hoolism, a 0:10:05.613 --> 0:10:08.133 toxic marriage. And what I found is I'm just in 0:10:08.173 --> 0:10:10.773 the wrong rooms, right, And so what it took for me, 0:10:10.813 --> 0:10:12.813 and I use this analogy of like walking down a 0:10:12.813 --> 0:10:14.453 hallway and you see all these doors, and you kind 0:10:14.453 --> 0:10:15.973 of walked out of the wrong room and you're on 0:10:16.093 --> 0:10:19.773 this long hallway and they are all these open doors 0:10:19.813 --> 0:10:21.693 and you're like, I don't know which ones for me, right, 0:10:21.773 --> 0:10:23.533 Like I don't know what door do I open? Which 0:10:23.533 --> 0:10:25.573 one is the right room? And the right room for 0:10:25.693 --> 0:10:28.413 me has always been that listening to your inner voice, 0:10:28.413 --> 0:10:30.653 listening to the guidance, And for so long I was 0:10:30.733 --> 0:10:32.533 told that voice was wrong, you know, And which is 0:10:32.533 --> 0:10:34.733 why I didn't share about my addiction and my recovery, 0:10:35.293 --> 0:10:38.533 because I was told it's shameful, it's embarrassing, people aren't 0:10:38.533 --> 0:10:40.573 going to like you, and so I kept it really quiet. 0:10:41.933 --> 0:10:43.333 But I found that once I shut in that space 0:10:43.373 --> 0:10:45.373 of just honoring that and saying like this is who 0:10:45.413 --> 0:10:48.693 I am and this person doesn't like me, then this 0:10:48.773 --> 0:10:51.653 is my person over here. But that's really hard, you know, 0:10:51.693 --> 0:10:56.853 and it takes that practice of like chipping away right, 0:10:56.933 --> 0:10:59.253 like one thing at a time and slowly doing that. 0:11:01.333 --> 0:11:03.773 I think, I don't know, you know, like the tools 0:11:03.493 --> 0:11:07.333 for me when I first got sober was really important 0:11:07.373 --> 0:11:08.493 to like, and people say, like, what do I do 0:11:08.533 --> 0:11:10.493 with the holidays? And it was like, don't do you 0:11:10.533 --> 0:11:12.773 guys do this too? Like I'd always have a drink 0:11:12.813 --> 0:11:16.613 in my hand and it was always sparkling water or 0:11:16.733 --> 0:11:19.533 diet coke or something like that, where people were never 0:11:19.573 --> 0:11:21.453 asking me like can I fill your drink up? Or 0:11:21.453 --> 0:11:23.653 can I get this or you know, things like that. 0:11:25.653 --> 0:11:27.813 And also what I realized is most people are thinking 0:11:27.813 --> 0:11:30.453 about themselves a lot of the time. You know. They're 0:11:30.453 --> 0:11:32.253 not thinking about me, and they're not worried about me 0:11:32.373 --> 0:11:36.973 leaving or they're not worried about what I'm doing, but 0:11:37.053 --> 0:11:39.053 they are worried about how it's going to impact them, 0:11:39.293 --> 0:11:40.933 you know. And so what I had to realize was 0:11:40.973 --> 0:11:43.493 that I'm the only one, you know, I need to 0:11:43.493 --> 0:11:46.653 worry about me and my my emotional well being. And 0:11:46.693 --> 0:11:48.173 so if I'm in the wrong room, I just need 0:11:48.173 --> 0:11:48.893 to step out. 0:11:51.533 --> 0:11:55.053 Those boundaries. I mean, I'm you. When you started talking 0:11:55.053 --> 0:11:58.533 about boundaries, I immediately I just went to Darren because 0:11:58.573 --> 0:12:01.493 I feel like I have so much more, much more 0:12:01.533 --> 0:12:06.133 empathy and compassion towards his price of setting boundaries. It's 0:12:06.173 --> 0:12:09.133 got to be so fucking confusing and like you know, 0:12:09.173 --> 0:12:12.133 where you set the boundary and watch family members. I mean, 0:12:12.173 --> 0:12:16.013 I can't even imagine like how much time, like an 0:12:16.093 --> 0:12:19.093 energy that must consume some people, especially when it is 0:12:19.653 --> 0:12:22.413 family or it's someone that we've known for twenty years 0:12:22.413 --> 0:12:26.893 and we feel obligated to like still give that person 0:12:26.973 --> 0:12:29.093 our time or energy, but we have like nothing in 0:12:29.093 --> 0:12:32.453 common with that person anymore. So Yeah, Darren, I don't know, 0:12:32.453 --> 0:12:34.333 I don't really have a question, but I just like, 0:12:34.653 --> 0:12:37.133 you know, I can't even imagine what that what that 0:12:37.213 --> 0:12:38.333 work looks like for you. 0:12:38.813 --> 0:12:40.573 Yeah, No, it's a lot. And I'm just sitting here 0:12:40.653 --> 0:12:43.893 kind of thinking more towards the route. And it's like, 0:12:45.613 --> 0:12:48.893 you know, I've been somebody that is uh you know, 0:12:48.973 --> 0:12:53.973 kind of like you Hillary. I've people pleaser really could 0:12:54.173 --> 0:12:58.253 struggle with self esteem so much. We had a guest 0:12:58.293 --> 0:13:03.453 on the show, our guy, Neil uh He comedian and 0:13:03.493 --> 0:13:06.573 it won his stand ups. Was talking about how if 0:13:06.573 --> 0:13:09.933 somebody gave him a trophy and like he described his 0:13:10.533 --> 0:13:16.693 body and was like a trophy case or like, and 0:13:16.733 --> 0:13:18.733 he looks inside of himself, and if somebody puts a 0:13:18.773 --> 0:13:21.773 trophy on that case and that shelving like he described 0:13:21.773 --> 0:13:23.493 it as, it would just slide down because he didn't 0:13:23.493 --> 0:13:26.133 even have the framework or the inner world to be 0:13:26.133 --> 0:13:28.933 able to support and hold up a comment. So I 0:13:28.973 --> 0:13:33.053 look at boundaries and I'm like, you have to be 0:13:33.093 --> 0:13:34.733 able to stand up for yourself. But if I don't 0:13:34.733 --> 0:13:39.013 feel that great about myself, how am I gonna stand 0:13:39.093 --> 0:13:41.813 up for myself time in time again and stick to 0:13:41.973 --> 0:13:45.093 those things like I'm going to succumb and be like, oh, well, 0:13:45.493 --> 0:13:47.133 you know, maybe I should do this like kind of 0:13:47.133 --> 0:13:49.133 like you said, like the things that we've been taught 0:13:49.173 --> 0:13:52.773 in condition to do. And it's like that's where it struggles. 0:13:53.013 --> 0:13:57.213 That's where it gets hard for me. And it's still 0:13:57.213 --> 0:13:59.493 a constant practice of trying to figure that out because 0:13:59.493 --> 0:14:02.893 there's more and more intimate relationships being married, you know, 0:14:02.973 --> 0:14:07.893 trying to maintain friendship amidst work in projects and things 0:14:07.893 --> 0:14:10.653 that I have going on, and it's like sometimes you 0:14:10.773 --> 0:14:12.453 just get so overwhelmed. 0:14:12.853 --> 0:14:15.333 I guess yeah, And I think that goes to like, 0:14:15.453 --> 0:14:17.333 you know, figuring out what it is that we like, 0:14:17.333 --> 0:14:19.013 like what do I like? And what have I been told? 0:14:19.093 --> 0:14:21.533 Right in that paradigm, you know, of like I've been 0:14:21.533 --> 0:14:23.133 told that this is what you do, and you know 0:14:23.173 --> 0:14:24.973 you do this, you do that, you do that, and 0:14:24.973 --> 0:14:27.373 so the right waiting the way I'm raising my son. 0:14:27.413 --> 0:14:28.733 I have a six year old and he's like, well, 0:14:28.773 --> 0:14:30.533 when I get older, I'm gonna get married and have 0:14:30.573 --> 0:14:32.213 a baby. And they said, is that what you want 0:14:32.253 --> 0:14:34.693 to do? And he's like, I don't know. And I'm like, 0:14:35.373 --> 0:14:37.173 you're six, you don't have to decide that. And if 0:14:37.173 --> 0:14:39.493 you don't want that, that's okay. And he's like, but no, 0:14:39.693 --> 0:14:42.733 you you have to have grandkids. I'm like, but I don't. 0:14:43.053 --> 0:14:44.933 It's your life, right, you know what I mean? But 0:14:45.093 --> 0:14:47.333 you know, I think like we've been taught a certain way, 0:14:47.413 --> 0:14:49.133 like this is what you do. But if you don't know, 0:14:49.213 --> 0:14:51.373 if I don't know what I like, then how can 0:14:51.373 --> 0:14:52.493 I stand up for myself? 0:14:52.533 --> 0:14:52.693 You know? 0:14:53.053 --> 0:14:56.093 And something I recently heard which I love is in 0:14:56.133 --> 0:15:00.693 the self sacrificing space is we can stop lighting ourselves 0:15:00.693 --> 0:15:02.293 on fire to keep others warm? 0:15:02.973 --> 0:15:06.013 Oh who keeps? Yeah? 0:15:06.213 --> 0:15:09.853 Man, I mean that's like I when I heard that, 0:15:09.933 --> 0:15:14.093 it's like, yes, oh my gosh, yes, Like that's that 0:15:14.133 --> 0:15:16.213 doesn't have to be a thing anymore. I don't have 0:15:16.333 --> 0:15:20.653 to set myself on fire to keep others warm? Right, Yeah, 0:15:21.053 --> 0:15:21.893 what's your lesson? 0:15:22.773 --> 0:15:24.893 Oh? Yes, And I was just gonna build off of 0:15:24.933 --> 0:15:28.533 that because I hear that and I think of, you know, 0:15:28.773 --> 0:15:31.333 my past and dealing with you know, relationships and just life. 0:15:31.373 --> 0:15:36.413 It's like like I'm leaning into codependency or self sabotage 0:15:37.053 --> 0:15:40.413 or like or maybe like a combination of two in 0:15:40.453 --> 0:15:43.413 the middle, and it's like, you know, I need I 0:15:43.493 --> 0:15:47.333 need somebody else to feel good, to feel great in 0:15:47.453 --> 0:15:50.333 order for me to be okay. But if this thing 0:15:50.373 --> 0:15:54.253 gets too good for the standards or what I tell 0:15:54.333 --> 0:15:57.013 myself I deserve, I'm gonna blow this thing up. Like 0:15:57.933 --> 0:16:00.253 I'm gonna take I'm a tear thing to the ground. 0:16:00.253 --> 0:16:03.453 And I'm just like, I don't know, And it's still there. 0:16:03.573 --> 0:16:05.533 It's still there. Still I want to eat at me. 0:16:05.573 --> 0:16:08.373 It still wants to show up in the workplace, It 0:16:08.413 --> 0:16:10.973 wants to show up in marriage, It wants to show 0:16:11.053 --> 0:16:14.653 up in relationships, and it's something I got to keep 0:16:14.653 --> 0:16:17.293 digging on, you know. I tell like the audience that 0:16:17.293 --> 0:16:21.013 that's listening. I'm not hosting the show because I've reached 0:16:21.013 --> 0:16:24.933 this place where everything is figured out and I have 0:16:24.973 --> 0:16:28.253 no more problems. I got plenty issues that I'm still 0:16:28.293 --> 0:16:30.933 trying to work through while also kind of giving myself 0:16:30.973 --> 0:16:34.653 credit for the growth. But yeah, dealing with it that 0:16:34.973 --> 0:16:39.093 just the inner world is can be chaotic, all right. 0:16:39.133 --> 0:16:41.293 I think I go like just giving people like I 0:16:41.333 --> 0:16:42.813 love what you said. You know that you don't have 0:16:42.853 --> 0:16:44.493 it all figured out and you're not perfect, and it 0:16:44.493 --> 0:16:46.653 goes to the grace of being able to give other 0:16:46.693 --> 0:16:49.333 people grace when they're going through something too, and space, 0:16:49.453 --> 0:16:51.613 you know. But to your point, it's like that's where 0:16:51.613 --> 0:16:54.053 I think for me, like the challenge comes in is 0:16:54.053 --> 0:16:57.893 when like I've got my stuff, like I've got you 0:16:57.933 --> 0:16:59.173 know what I mean, But I don't ever want to 0:16:59.173 --> 0:17:01.093 have somebody else carry my shit, Like I want to 0:17:01.133 --> 0:17:03.453 work on it myself before I can, you know. But 0:17:03.493 --> 0:17:07.933 if there's there's that's hard, that inner stuff is hard, 0:17:07.933 --> 0:17:10.493 and I I and it's for competitive athletes too. I 0:17:10.493 --> 0:17:13.733 find that it's really challenging because right you're taught to 0:17:13.773 --> 0:17:18.333 beat people harder, faster, stronger, whatever it takes. But then 0:17:18.533 --> 0:17:23.013 you know, it's kind of like a split. Yeah, it's tough. 0:17:23.333 --> 0:17:25.973 Yeah, And I imagine like there's got to be a 0:17:26.013 --> 0:17:27.493 lot of things going on in your world if I 0:17:27.493 --> 0:17:30.253 try to put myself in your shoes back in the 0:17:30.333 --> 0:17:35.013 day when you were this competitive swimmer, swimmer also a woman, 0:17:35.293 --> 0:17:39.093 and I want to know, like when you are a 0:17:39.093 --> 0:17:40.973 woman in that space, just a woman in general who 0:17:41.053 --> 0:17:44.733 wants to achieve and set high goals for herself. Like 0:17:44.773 --> 0:17:46.493 when you were dealing with your issues, do you feel 0:17:46.533 --> 0:17:48.373 like you kind of had to stuff them away to 0:17:48.533 --> 0:17:52.453 like not show a sign of weakness, to show yourself 0:17:52.493 --> 0:17:55.893 as like a strong being in this world? Like, how 0:17:55.893 --> 0:17:58.053 do you go about dealing with that? Because as a man, 0:17:58.373 --> 0:18:01.253 don't I don't know, Like I can listen, but I 0:18:01.293 --> 0:18:04.173 don't really know the struggles of a woman that's trying 0:18:04.173 --> 0:18:09.013 to set the bar high and achieve. Yeah, give the audience, 0:18:09.053 --> 0:18:10.293 I guess a picture to that. 0:18:11.373 --> 0:18:14.133 Yeah, So you know I was, I mean I think 0:18:14.173 --> 0:18:16.293 I was joyful and happy and so I loved the 0:18:16.293 --> 0:18:19.573 competition and I love being the best, until you know, 0:18:19.613 --> 0:18:22.173 it came to a place where I wasn't the best, 0:18:22.373 --> 0:18:25.213 meaning I was so good at all these things, a 0:18:25.213 --> 0:18:29.053 great swimmer, a great athlete. I was really happy. And 0:18:29.093 --> 0:18:32.533 then for me, I think it and this goes back 0:18:32.533 --> 0:18:34.333 to like we were talking about, like self confidence, right 0:18:34.373 --> 0:18:35.893 for me, I think it went back to like I 0:18:35.893 --> 0:18:39.173 had a little bit of depression, probably undiagnosed depression, which 0:18:39.213 --> 0:18:43.173 is incredibly common going through puberty, you know, all of 0:18:43.173 --> 0:18:47.773 the things that people do. But I was told like 0:18:47.853 --> 0:18:49.933 just to you know, ignore it and it'll go away. 0:18:50.093 --> 0:18:51.533 You know, it's just a phase. It'll just go And 0:18:51.573 --> 0:18:53.613 I was like, okay, well I'm just gonna push harder 0:18:53.733 --> 0:18:55.293 because that's all I knew how to do was just 0:18:55.333 --> 0:18:58.293 work harder, push harder, you know, and it wasn't working. 0:18:58.533 --> 0:19:02.453 And so for me, my solution was like, okay, figure out, 0:19:02.493 --> 0:19:04.253 like right, like, figure out how to make this work 0:19:04.253 --> 0:19:06.053 with the limited knowledge that I have and the tools 0:19:06.053 --> 0:19:08.773 that I have. How do I be better? How do 0:19:08.853 --> 0:19:10.373 I And so that's kind you know, when I started 0:19:10.373 --> 0:19:14.253 finding drugs and alcohol and it was like that would okay, 0:19:14.253 --> 0:19:16.733 well this makes me feel better. I'm not doing any better, 0:19:16.773 --> 0:19:19.813 Like my swimming is tanking, my grades are starting to slip, 0:19:19.893 --> 0:19:23.413 but at least I'm really good at something now, you know, 0:19:23.533 --> 0:19:25.733 like I'm good at not being bad, but like I'm 0:19:25.733 --> 0:19:28.333 good at the opposite. And so that gave me a 0:19:28.373 --> 0:19:31.493 sense of accomplishment because I think at the end of 0:19:31.533 --> 0:19:33.493 the day, we just want to be loved, appreciated and 0:19:33.613 --> 0:19:37.453 seen like everybody. And so for me, you know, I 0:19:37.493 --> 0:19:40.853 wasn't getting the accolades from swimming, so I surrounded myself 0:19:40.893 --> 0:19:43.213 with people that were looking to numb out and escape 0:19:43.253 --> 0:19:47.373 like I was, you know, and that's when I start 0:19:47.453 --> 0:19:50.453 changing like people, places and things, like everything started shifting 0:19:50.493 --> 0:19:52.573 and changing. And you know, when I got sober, I 0:19:52.573 --> 0:19:54.173 had to do the same thing. I recently got a 0:19:54.173 --> 0:19:56.653 note today from someone and she was like, I struggle 0:19:56.693 --> 0:19:59.653 with relapse, Like what do you do? Like I can't. 0:19:59.853 --> 0:20:02.453 I just keep going back in to treatment, I keep 0:20:02.453 --> 0:20:04.413 trying to get sober, and I keep how do you do? 0:20:04.813 --> 0:20:06.293 I was like, you know what, I had to change 0:20:06.293 --> 0:20:09.173 people's places and things. I did not go to the parties, 0:20:09.253 --> 0:20:11.533 you know, not go to the bar, get a whole 0:20:11.533 --> 0:20:15.333 new set of friends. And I think that's hard. And 0:20:15.333 --> 0:20:17.333 I also think, you know, like you're asking about what 0:20:17.333 --> 0:20:19.133 it's like as a woman in sports or women in 0:20:19.173 --> 0:20:23.053 competitive I think it's also hard for in my opinion. 0:20:23.133 --> 0:20:25.133 You know, there's this just read this. I don't know 0:20:25.133 --> 0:20:27.453 if you guys have women that run with the wolves? 0:20:27.653 --> 0:20:28.533 Have you heard of this book? 0:20:29.173 --> 0:20:29.533 I have not. 0:20:31.693 --> 0:20:34.453 So it talks about the wild woman archetype, right, because 0:20:34.453 --> 0:20:36.533 most women like going to that paradigm. We're told like, 0:20:36.693 --> 0:20:40.173 you shouldn't sweat, keep your feet on the floor, you 0:20:40.213 --> 0:20:43.213 don't curse, right like you have children and that's your job. 0:20:43.293 --> 0:20:45.053 And that's kind of like what we're told to do. 0:20:45.093 --> 0:20:47.733 And it's like, but what about the woman that doesn't 0:20:47.733 --> 0:20:49.973 want to shave her armpits and just be sweaty, so 0:20:50.053 --> 0:20:52.693 there's something wrong with her? And it's like, no, she's 0:20:52.733 --> 0:20:56.093 okay too. And so I love this idea of and 0:20:56.173 --> 0:20:58.853 it goes back to competitive sports like that wild woman archetype, 0:20:58.893 --> 0:21:01.693 like just being being able to be competitive but then 0:21:01.733 --> 0:21:05.653 also being feminine and you know, being able to I 0:21:05.693 --> 0:21:09.173 don't know, spit or but then also being able to 0:21:09.253 --> 0:21:12.013 put makeup on like it's all okay, you know. And 0:21:12.053 --> 0:21:15.893 I think that it's just I think a big story 0:21:15.973 --> 0:21:17.733 was just allowing people not to be who they are, 0:21:18.693 --> 0:21:20.373 you know, and accepting them and that goes back to 0:21:20.373 --> 0:21:21.973 being in the room, Like if I don't like them, 0:21:21.973 --> 0:21:23.493 I don't have to be around them, but I can 0:21:23.573 --> 0:21:26.173 give them the space to just be themselves and that's okay, 0:21:26.893 --> 0:21:30.533 and I can just back out. You know, it's tough. 0:21:30.893 --> 0:21:32.933 That's a lot of wisdom, right, dear Donnie. I know, 0:21:33.813 --> 0:21:35.253 I know he lost you for a second. But I 0:21:35.893 --> 0:21:40.333 asked Hillary, you know what it was like being a 0:21:40.373 --> 0:21:43.333 woman as you know, a competitor, as somebody that was 0:21:43.333 --> 0:21:46.773 trying to set the bar high and set standards for herself, 0:21:47.013 --> 0:21:50.053 And if it was tough for her to navigate that 0:21:50.133 --> 0:21:52.853 space of trying to be successful, but also like you know, 0:21:52.933 --> 0:21:56.253 do I have to stuff my feelings and my emotions 0:21:56.293 --> 0:21:58.413 away in order to keep going and put off this 0:21:58.493 --> 0:22:00.613 strong image? Just trying to gain a little bit of 0:22:00.613 --> 0:22:03.933 a perspective for her and women in their own walks. 0:22:03.973 --> 0:22:08.493 So I thought she, I thought she handled it amazing. 0:22:08.973 --> 0:22:11.373 I got a question for oh, I got a question 0:22:11.453 --> 0:22:13.373 for you. I want to know and maybe people would 0:22:13.453 --> 0:22:16.573 be curious of, like what it what it was like 0:22:16.773 --> 0:22:19.973 and what it is like to be Michael Phelps, the 0:22:20.013 --> 0:22:23.653 greatest Olympian of all time. Sister, Like, tell me the 0:22:23.693 --> 0:22:26.813 good and then maybe the challenges of that as you 0:22:27.773 --> 0:22:29.653 rode that wave as a family. 0:22:31.493 --> 0:22:33.453 Yeah, I mean, you know, it's so funny because and 0:22:33.493 --> 0:22:35.533 I'll say this, and I've said this every time, like 0:22:35.613 --> 0:22:38.133 the medals are great, right, like his accolades, and they 0:22:38.133 --> 0:22:41.413 important to the accomplishments are in like anything we've ever seen, 0:22:41.493 --> 0:22:44.013 and I don't think i'll see in my lifetime like 0:22:44.213 --> 0:22:48.573 it's on it's phenomenal. But I think I'm most proud 0:22:48.613 --> 0:22:50.693 of himp is just stepping out and talking about his 0:22:50.733 --> 0:22:54.133 mental health and being an advocate for mental health, hands down, 0:22:54.253 --> 0:22:57.053 because as we all know on this channel and this conversation, 0:22:57.213 --> 0:22:59.333 it is so hard to be vulnerable and for someone 0:22:59.373 --> 0:23:01.573 and Darren you know too, like to have all of 0:23:01.613 --> 0:23:04.733 those things and say, like, you know what, you all 0:23:04.773 --> 0:23:07.133 think I'm perfect, but this is what's going on in 0:23:07.213 --> 0:23:09.533 the inside, right, Because sometimes one of the reasons I 0:23:09.533 --> 0:23:11.253 got sober was because I literally felt like I was 0:23:11.253 --> 0:23:13.333 burning alive on the inside, right, And so trying to 0:23:13.413 --> 0:23:16.973 keep all that stuff in is just painful and at 0:23:16.973 --> 0:23:19.493 some point you either let it out or you just continue, 0:23:19.733 --> 0:23:25.453 you know, just to suffer. And so hands down, like 0:23:25.773 --> 0:23:27.813 and I think everybody in our family and all of 0:23:27.853 --> 0:23:30.733 his you know, friends would say the same thing. You know, 0:23:30.813 --> 0:23:34.013 the challenge came I think after the Only The only 0:23:34.093 --> 0:23:37.813 challenge was kind of for eight when nobody knew what 0:23:37.853 --> 0:23:40.613 to expect, you know, because it was he'd been this 0:23:40.813 --> 0:23:44.413 great athlete and the swimming world really knew him. But 0:23:44.453 --> 0:23:46.373 in eight, when it was a called Metals, it kind 0:23:46.373 --> 0:23:48.693 of launched him into the international scene. I mean, he'd 0:23:48.693 --> 0:23:51.693 been in the international swimming scene, but kind of pulled 0:23:51.813 --> 0:23:55.653 him into this athletic stratosphere that so you know, few 0:23:55.653 --> 0:23:59.813 people are in. And overnight he became recognizable. And in 0:23:59.853 --> 0:24:03.053 that moment, you know, things just kind of changed and 0:24:03.093 --> 0:24:04.693 the thing, you know, to small things like going out 0:24:04.733 --> 0:24:07.453 to dinner became impossible because Darren, I'm sure you like 0:24:07.493 --> 0:24:09.533 people come up to you and the funny thing like, 0:24:09.893 --> 0:24:13.533 I hate to bother you, but but I'm gonna do 0:24:13.533 --> 0:24:13.933 it anyway. 0:24:14.413 --> 0:24:16.853 Not the awareness down, Your awareness is down. You know 0:24:16.893 --> 0:24:19.133 you're bothering me, but you're doing it anyway. 0:24:18.893 --> 0:24:20.493 So. 0:24:21.253 --> 0:24:22.893 You know, and then you know, and when some of 0:24:22.893 --> 0:24:25.373 the you know, the public challenges were really hard because 0:24:26.693 --> 0:24:29.293 it's hard not to fight for people you love, and 0:24:29.333 --> 0:24:31.453 so when people are saying really negative and hurtful and 0:24:31.493 --> 0:24:33.813 mean things about somebody that you've love so deeply as 0:24:33.853 --> 0:24:37.453 a sibling. It brings out the worst in me and 0:24:37.493 --> 0:24:39.773 my family, you know, because you just want to protect them. 0:24:39.853 --> 0:24:46.653 And so that was really hard because the bats. 0:24:47.013 --> 0:24:49.213 Yeah, I really I want to fight Darren's all the 0:24:49.253 --> 0:24:52.453 time sometimes on Instagram, but like you know, it's like 0:24:52.693 --> 0:24:55.733 it's it's it's that knee jerk, you know. And this 0:24:55.773 --> 0:24:58.293 is why I'm so grateful for the gifts of just 0:24:58.413 --> 0:25:00.293 mindfulness and all this work that we do, that we 0:25:00.293 --> 0:25:03.573 can actually have space to make better decisions and not 0:25:03.653 --> 0:25:07.373 react from a place fear, ego, because someone's talking shit 0:25:07.453 --> 0:25:10.413 about my friend, like somebody behind a keyboard that never 0:25:10.413 --> 0:25:13.013 played football or quit, you know, their senior year, so 0:25:13.053 --> 0:25:16.253 they're now living vicariously through everybody else. But I want 0:25:16.293 --> 0:25:18.973 to go back and talk about what you're so proud, 0:25:19.053 --> 0:25:21.653 what you were most proud of, Michael, because I said 0:25:21.653 --> 0:25:24.173 the exact same thing on our podcast when we interviewed. 0:25:24.253 --> 0:25:27.013 I'm like, the medals are great, Like that's all awesome, 0:25:27.373 --> 0:25:30.333 but what you're doing now and sharing this message and 0:25:30.893 --> 0:25:32.973 you know that moment when we interviewed Michael, that was 0:25:32.973 --> 0:25:36.053 the first in person interview that Darren and I ever did, 0:25:36.733 --> 0:25:38.973 so we just did it virtually. Yeah, we started it 0:25:39.053 --> 0:25:43.213 during COVID and Darren's first game was that season was 0:25:43.253 --> 0:25:45.253 against the Ravens and they were coming in for Monday 0:25:45.333 --> 0:25:49.373 Night and Michael's a Ravens fan, so we were able 0:25:49.413 --> 0:25:51.013 to line it up. And we didn't even have a 0:25:51.053 --> 0:25:54.173 podcast studio, and we use the podcast studio from Bluewire, 0:25:54.213 --> 0:25:57.973 our old producer, and we didn't we had never done 0:25:57.973 --> 0:26:00.653 an in person interview. And here we're in the wind casino, 0:26:00.733 --> 0:26:04.093 people are watching outside and it was such a surreal moment. 0:26:04.173 --> 0:26:08.133 But the best part about it was the rawness, the vulnerability, 0:26:08.373 --> 0:26:11.813 Michael's wife sitting in the studio crying as we're having 0:26:11.853 --> 0:26:15.373 this interview. And most importantly, I think Michael's talking about 0:26:15.413 --> 0:26:19.533 his still current life struggles that he has and just 0:26:19.573 --> 0:26:23.213 how bad it got for him over COVID. So yes, 0:26:23.533 --> 0:26:27.013 I'm the same way, but I'm most proud of and 0:26:27.013 --> 0:26:30.613 the same thing for you, like speaking up after sixteen years. 0:26:30.653 --> 0:26:33.253 Something you said that I've heard in your story, how 0:26:33.253 --> 0:26:35.213 you thought you were going to be no fun when 0:26:35.253 --> 0:26:37.813 you stop drinking. And I used to say the same thing, 0:26:37.893 --> 0:26:40.173 like I thought my life was over when I had 0:26:40.173 --> 0:26:42.533 to stop partying, but the truth was it was really 0:26:42.533 --> 0:26:43.893 getting started. 0:26:45.533 --> 0:26:47.333 But I had no evidence to prove that right, And 0:26:47.373 --> 0:26:49.373 so that's the fear part too. It's like stepping out 0:26:49.373 --> 0:26:52.053 into the space of the unknown and saying, but this 0:26:52.213 --> 0:26:54.813 is fun, and it's like, is it? It's all I 0:26:54.853 --> 0:26:56.773 knew for fun, Like blacking out, it's not fun, not 0:26:56.813 --> 0:26:59.013 knowing what happened the night before, Like, really, it's not fun. 0:26:59.093 --> 0:27:02.173 But I had somebody tell me when I stopped drinking. 0:27:02.213 --> 0:27:04.373 She's like, well, you're no fun anymore. And for someon 0:27:04.573 --> 0:27:07.933 on this two months sober, because that's all I wanted 0:27:07.933 --> 0:27:09.613 to be. I wanted to be anybody other than who 0:27:09.653 --> 0:27:13.773 I was, you know, because I'm I'm not funny. I mean, 0:27:13.813 --> 0:27:16.293 i can kind of be sarcastic, but I'm not exceptionally 0:27:16.333 --> 0:27:18.533 Like my sister and my brother are funny like i'm 0:27:18.573 --> 0:27:20.853 and they're also way cooler, like I think. I look 0:27:20.893 --> 0:27:23.293 at them and I'm like, they're just cool, like I'm 0:27:24.053 --> 0:27:25.573 I'm not. I don't think I am, you know what 0:27:25.613 --> 0:27:27.093 I mean. And so like I wanted to be that, 0:27:27.293 --> 0:27:29.653 or I wanted to be super funny, or I wanted 0:27:29.653 --> 0:27:31.293 to be able to recite everything I read in the book. 0:27:31.293 --> 0:27:32.893 I wanted to be all these things, and it was like, 0:27:32.893 --> 0:27:35.973 I'm not any of those, and that's okay, But being 0:27:36.013 --> 0:27:37.213 fun was the hard one. 0:27:37.973 --> 0:27:41.093 I think that the key to what you said, like 0:27:41.253 --> 0:27:44.133 that's okay at the end of it, right, because some 0:27:44.173 --> 0:27:46.253 of that can show up is not enough, especially if 0:27:46.293 --> 0:27:48.213 our siblings are all of these things that were not, 0:27:49.013 --> 0:27:51.693 you know, and then our level of whatever our standard 0:27:52.053 --> 0:27:55.133 were of success, we're measuring against theirs. 0:27:55.453 --> 0:27:55.613 You know. 0:27:55.653 --> 0:27:58.973 I have a brother that was extremely successful in sports, 0:27:59.173 --> 0:28:02.213 more successful than ninety eight percent, but maybe not as 0:28:02.253 --> 0:28:05.253 successful as me. So then it was always kind of 0:28:05.293 --> 0:28:08.533 looked at, I think sometimes as well, you know, not 0:28:08.653 --> 0:28:11.853 as successful as you. So once again, there's not enough story. 0:28:12.853 --> 0:28:15.013 Well I joke about my family too, like I was, 0:28:15.893 --> 0:28:19.173 you know, I was full scholarship Division one collegiate swimmer. 0:28:19.493 --> 0:28:22.013 It's pretty good. My sister was third in the world 0:28:22.013 --> 0:28:26.213 at fourteen, really good. My brother's the greatest swimmer of 0:28:26.213 --> 0:28:28.813 all times. So I'm the least successful in my family. Right, 0:28:28.813 --> 0:28:30.893 So to your point, like measuring that by anybody else, 0:28:30.893 --> 0:28:33.613 it would be like that's really you're great, Like have 0:28:33.693 --> 0:28:39.413 you seen them? They're really good? But yeah, it's also 0:28:39.413 --> 0:28:42.413 that measuring our insides to other people's outsides, you know. 0:28:42.493 --> 0:28:44.773 So I look at Darren doing these great things on 0:28:44.813 --> 0:28:47.213 the football field and having all this great success, and Honey, 0:28:47.293 --> 0:28:50.573 you leading these ethic retreats, and I'm like, oh my gosh, 0:28:50.653 --> 0:28:52.933 they're living the life, you know, where meanwhile, you have 0:28:52.973 --> 0:28:55.693 the same feelings on the inside as I do. But 0:28:55.773 --> 0:28:57.973 I'm just looking at the external things and seeing what 0:28:58.013 --> 0:29:01.453 you're presenting is as your internal truth too, And I 0:29:01.453 --> 0:29:05.213 think that's where it's really hard. Yeah, comparison. 0:29:05.453 --> 0:29:08.533 Yeah, I mean I could draw a parallel from you know, 0:29:08.813 --> 0:29:12.413 our inner world to you talking about sobriety is going 0:29:12.493 --> 0:29:15.293 to be no fun, to even to your brother and 0:29:15.333 --> 0:29:19.053 his mental health journey. It's like we have to give 0:29:19.053 --> 0:29:22.693 people permission to like go along their journey and give 0:29:22.733 --> 0:29:27.693 themselves time to believe this new truth like that, you know, 0:29:27.853 --> 0:29:31.453 speaking on mental health can be stronger than any amount 0:29:31.533 --> 0:29:35.453 of championships, one medals, one Like I got to give 0:29:35.493 --> 0:29:38.493 myself time to grow into the truth that my life 0:29:38.573 --> 0:29:40.413 is going to get better from the point that I 0:29:40.453 --> 0:29:43.613 stopped drinking, Like I have to give myself time to 0:29:43.613 --> 0:29:46.253 grow into thinking that what's on the inside matters, and 0:29:46.253 --> 0:29:48.333 I don't have to compare that to anybody else. And 0:29:48.373 --> 0:29:51.693 it's just like, well, let the people know, like your 0:29:51.773 --> 0:29:55.493 journey can take time. It doesn't have to change overnight. 0:29:55.533 --> 0:29:58.053 It doesn't have to be fixed all at once, like 0:29:58.093 --> 0:30:01.333 it's an ongoing process, and just give yourself a little 0:30:01.333 --> 0:30:03.693 bit more time, like just hang on like for today 0:30:03.853 --> 0:30:05.933 even if you even if that's all that it takes. 0:30:07.253 --> 0:30:09.453 So Donnie, you sent me this great podcast and Mark 0:30:09.533 --> 0:30:12.093 Groves Sarah Baldwin podcast, and it talks about healing your 0:30:12.093 --> 0:30:14.853 nervous system. So where I am in ten years, I'm 0:30:14.893 --> 0:30:17.533 not prepared for the successes or the happiness of the 0:30:17.613 --> 0:30:19.413 joys that I'll have in ten years because I haven't 0:30:19.453 --> 0:30:21.853 healed my current nervous system to be able to hold that. 0:30:22.453 --> 0:30:25.053 When I heard that, I was like, oh wait, that 0:30:25.093 --> 0:30:26.493 makes it, Like that makes so much sense of these 0:30:26.493 --> 0:30:28.893 little things, you know, Like so I just have to 0:30:28.973 --> 0:30:31.253 keep doing today the best I can do today, and 0:30:31.733 --> 0:30:34.533 you repeat that tomorrow and in ten years I'll be 0:30:34.573 --> 0:30:36.893 ready for whatever it is the universe has for me 0:30:36.973 --> 0:30:39.173 and then presents itself to me. And it's like that 0:30:39.293 --> 0:30:41.453 makes sense. But it's those little nuggets of things that 0:30:41.493 --> 0:30:43.453 you hear, you know. And when I got sober, someone 0:30:43.493 --> 0:30:46.053 said that it's like your elevator is going down. You 0:30:46.053 --> 0:30:48.453 can get off at any time, Like, oh, I have 0:30:48.573 --> 0:30:53.893 a choice, huh, you know it's yeah. I love those 0:30:53.933 --> 0:30:55.573 little like wisdom soundbites. 0:30:56.173 --> 0:30:58.053 Well, we get them. We get them all the time, 0:30:58.173 --> 0:31:00.853 especially when we're having conversations like this. I don't know 0:31:00.893 --> 0:31:03.253 about YouTube, but I just always believe that God or 0:31:03.293 --> 0:31:05.453 spirit or whatever you choose to call it, speaks through 0:31:05.453 --> 0:31:08.413 the mouths of people. For me, that's where I hear 0:31:08.453 --> 0:31:11.973 it because I can still struggle to decipher if I'm 0:31:12.013 --> 0:31:14.453 sitting quietly, is that my head or is that God 0:31:14.533 --> 0:31:16.653 talking or where? You know, what's the difference, But where 0:31:16.653 --> 0:31:18.733 I do hear it, and especially when I start to 0:31:18.733 --> 0:31:21.253 hear the same shit over and over again, it's like, 0:31:21.293 --> 0:31:24.173 there's a reason why you're why you're why you're seeing that, 0:31:24.213 --> 0:31:27.013 and why you're hearing that, and even like because you know, 0:31:27.093 --> 0:31:30.093 life is a mirror. I would always, you know, have 0:31:30.253 --> 0:31:32.413 this thing with my coaching clients. If there was something 0:31:32.453 --> 0:31:35.933 that was repeatedly happening into them, I would say, well, 0:31:35.933 --> 0:31:39.053 where are you doing that? Because that's usually I mean, 0:31:39.133 --> 0:31:41.253 we're the common denominator. And if you believe in karma, 0:31:41.293 --> 0:31:43.533 what you put out comes back to you. So if 0:31:43.533 --> 0:31:47.413 something keeps happening to you, there's somewhere in your life 0:31:47.453 --> 0:31:50.853 you're doing that same thing, you know. And so it's 0:31:50.933 --> 0:31:53.973 like this is why we especially this time of the year, 0:31:54.493 --> 0:31:57.013 as we get into the new year, it's the time 0:31:57.093 --> 0:32:01.213 to like take a real hard, deep, honest look within 0:32:01.293 --> 0:32:04.813 yourself so that you can see what, like what's stopped you. 0:32:05.453 --> 0:32:07.693 Like that's the big thing I'm talking about, like leading 0:32:07.773 --> 0:32:10.213 up to the new Year's like, Okay, what's one thing 0:32:10.253 --> 0:32:13.773 you need to stop? Just one thing? What is that 0:32:13.893 --> 0:32:16.893 one thing that is in the way that is stopping 0:32:16.973 --> 0:32:18.533 you and getting in the way of you know, and 0:32:18.613 --> 0:32:21.653 just simplify that, and then what do we need to do? 0:32:21.813 --> 0:32:24.133 What would your life look like if you were able 0:32:24.133 --> 0:32:24.893 to let that go? 0:32:25.173 --> 0:32:25.373 You know? 0:32:26.653 --> 0:32:28.293 Yeah, And I think to your point about you know, 0:32:28.333 --> 0:32:31.133 like what am I doing? Like why is this pattern continuing? 0:32:31.213 --> 0:32:33.453 Sometimes it's not that we're I found that it's not 0:32:33.493 --> 0:32:36.893 that like we're doing anything, but we're allowing it, you 0:32:36.893 --> 0:32:38.573 know what I mean. Like it's not like I am 0:32:39.613 --> 0:32:42.373 putting out negative or whatever it is, but I'm allowing 0:32:42.413 --> 0:32:44.293 other people to speak to me in a certain way 0:32:44.453 --> 0:32:46.213 or like you know, and I had to have this 0:32:46.253 --> 0:32:48.613 conversation someone with someone that's going to be in my 0:32:48.653 --> 0:32:51.493 life for the next twelve years, and I had to 0:32:51.533 --> 0:32:54.053 have this conversation. And I said, at least and I'm like, 0:32:54.693 --> 0:32:57.693 you can't talk to me like this anymore. If you do, 0:32:58.133 --> 0:32:59.853 I'm going to hang up the phone or I'm going 0:32:59.933 --> 0:33:01.973 to walk away. This is my boundary and if you 0:33:02.173 --> 0:33:03.813 And it took a couple of times for me to 0:33:03.813 --> 0:33:06.053 be like, I'm I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it, 0:33:06.333 --> 0:33:08.533 you know what I mean. So it's it's not maybe 0:33:08.533 --> 0:33:11.013 i'm you know, someone's not doing it, but it's the allowing. 0:33:11.053 --> 0:33:14.373 And it's that continuous pattern of allowing someone else to 0:33:14.453 --> 0:33:19.093 disrespect or angry or whatever it is. And that's hard 0:33:19.133 --> 0:33:22.253 too because if that's what we're used to or a 0:33:22.453 --> 0:33:27.133 patterning or what we've been to it, it's really hard 0:33:27.133 --> 0:33:27.493 to break that. 0:33:29.053 --> 0:33:32.333 Yeah, on that topic of you had talked about You're 0:33:32.333 --> 0:33:36.293 getting your Nervous System Ready, which is a download marcros podcast. 0:33:36.333 --> 0:33:38.253 Listen to all of his episodes. He's been on our 0:33:38.533 --> 0:33:41.693 podcast and he's a friend of ours and just amazing 0:33:41.773 --> 0:33:43.933 but yeah, she was talking about how we need to 0:33:43.973 --> 0:33:47.413 train our parents and our teachers to train them to 0:33:47.453 --> 0:33:50.693 train their nervous systems and get them ready. But there's 0:33:50.733 --> 0:33:52.933 that aspect of it, and then there's this whole idea 0:33:52.973 --> 0:33:56.493 of like the upper limit and training our upper limit. Right, 0:33:56.573 --> 0:33:59.733 So our upper limit is what we think we're worthy 0:33:59.813 --> 0:34:02.013 of receiving. So when all the abundance and all the 0:34:02.053 --> 0:34:05.053 good comes into our lives, we have this up limit. 0:34:05.133 --> 0:34:08.213 And once we surpassed that upper limit, if we don't 0:34:08.213 --> 0:34:11.453 believe we're worthy of it, we will do something or 0:34:12.173 --> 0:34:15.213 do nothing. You talked about actions, but sometimes it's also 0:34:15.373 --> 0:34:19.613 the inaction, the procrastination. I mean, that's the word I 0:34:19.653 --> 0:34:23.413 think about me when I think about procrastination, and so 0:34:23.613 --> 0:34:26.093 this is the word, you know, And this is like 0:34:26.133 --> 0:34:29.093 for anybody listening, if you're just listening and not watching, 0:34:29.133 --> 0:34:32.173 when I said procrastination, they both like, you know, made 0:34:32.213 --> 0:34:35.413 a face like me too, So you know, if you're 0:34:35.493 --> 0:34:38.293 there too, like and you're beating yourself up for doing it, 0:34:38.413 --> 0:34:41.773 like pretty normal these days, especially in a world that 0:34:42.093 --> 0:34:45.133 like we've just been really really distracted, and that's why 0:34:45.133 --> 0:34:46.453 we have to have these practices. 0:34:47.933 --> 0:34:49.893 Well, Darren, that goes back to what you were saying 0:34:49.893 --> 0:34:52.053 about smashing it. You know, we were talking about this, 0:34:52.133 --> 0:34:53.973 Donnie when we lost you for a second. He was 0:34:53.973 --> 0:34:55.573 talking about, like the good starts to happen, then you 0:34:55.693 --> 0:34:58.013 kind of self sabotage. It's like, nope, nope, I'm not ready. 0:34:58.013 --> 0:35:00.813 I'm not from this. Smash this with a hammer, you know. 0:35:01.533 --> 0:35:04.213 Yeah, or like yeah, my mom My mom used to 0:35:04.293 --> 0:35:06.293 say that when I would start to get sober and 0:35:06.333 --> 0:35:09.533 do things well and things would start coming into my life, 0:35:09.533 --> 0:35:11.933 She's like, it's almost like you're doing it on purpose. 0:35:13.053 --> 0:35:15.533 And it was because I did not believe in myself 0:35:15.573 --> 0:35:17.173 because of the way I was acting and the way 0:35:17.173 --> 0:35:20.533 I was living, So my self worth was shot so 0:35:20.653 --> 0:35:22.493 that if any good came in, it's like. 0:35:22.533 --> 0:35:24.013 Oh no, no, I'm not worthy of this. 0:35:24.213 --> 0:35:27.213 And you know, I'll never forget. I sat with a 0:35:27.253 --> 0:35:32.653 fellow friend, a medicine leader, one of our friends, Don Bergeron, 0:35:32.853 --> 0:35:35.813 who when I went through a medicine journey, and you know, 0:35:35.853 --> 0:35:38.093 we got to the point where we were just talking 0:35:38.133 --> 0:35:40.653 about the relationship I was in and this attachment that 0:35:40.733 --> 0:35:43.133 I had to it, and I just you know, in 0:35:43.173 --> 0:35:45.813 the journey, there was this energy of attachment and he 0:35:45.933 --> 0:35:48.493 at the end said, do you believe that you are 0:35:48.493 --> 0:35:49.213 worthy of love? 0:35:49.853 --> 0:35:50.693 And I said yes? 0:35:50.813 --> 0:35:52.653 And he said do you believe that you are love? 0:35:52.693 --> 0:35:55.573 And I said yes? And he said, well, okay, then 0:35:55.613 --> 0:35:57.613 if it's not her, it's going to be something better 0:35:58.333 --> 0:36:01.533 because you're worthy of it now if you believe that. 0:36:01.733 --> 0:36:04.653 And Wow, like that moment when he said that, it 0:36:04.853 --> 0:36:08.293 broke an attachment that I had to her, which allowed 0:36:08.293 --> 0:36:10.573 me to actually be more connected to her now and 0:36:10.613 --> 0:36:12.933 trust that like I don't know what the fuck's going 0:36:12.973 --> 0:36:16.053 to happen a year from now, Like we don't know anything, 0:36:16.133 --> 0:36:18.813 and so yeah, I think it just comes back to 0:36:18.893 --> 0:36:22.413 that whole idea of self love. And you know, Hillary, 0:36:22.453 --> 0:36:24.013 I think we need to probably bring you back for 0:36:24.133 --> 0:36:28.453 round two because we've just like scratched the surface, and 0:36:28.533 --> 0:36:31.693 I know both of you are limited on time, but yeah, 0:36:31.693 --> 0:36:33.333 I think we could go in round two and just 0:36:33.373 --> 0:36:35.413 share a little bit more about your journey. And also 0:36:35.893 --> 0:36:37.693 I want to be able to give the audience just 0:36:37.733 --> 0:36:40.853 more tools and practical tools and you know, pull the 0:36:40.853 --> 0:36:43.693 coach out of you to teach us some stuff and 0:36:43.733 --> 0:36:44.333 our listeners. 0:36:46.133 --> 0:36:50.653 Yeah, drop, let's do this. 0:36:50.973 --> 0:36:54.573 Let's give us some nuggets, like just give us something 0:36:54.653 --> 0:36:56.653 to kind of land on, and then we'll just we'll 0:36:56.653 --> 0:36:58.933 try to bring you back like next next week, so 0:36:59.013 --> 0:37:00.853 we can go back to back. But I would say 0:37:01.253 --> 0:37:05.413 some nuggets to give people some positive momentum going into 0:37:05.413 --> 0:37:06.093 the end of the year. 0:37:07.413 --> 0:37:09.013 I think the easiest thing and that I used to 0:37:09.093 --> 0:37:13.093 roll myize out is gratitude list hands down. And it's like, 0:37:13.973 --> 0:37:16.373 but every single night before my son goes to bed, 0:37:16.413 --> 0:37:18.293 will I in bed with him and I say, what 0:37:18.333 --> 0:37:20.533 are the three things you're grateful for? Like just list, 0:37:20.613 --> 0:37:24.213 you know. And sometimes he's like hot wheels, you know, whatever, 0:37:25.533 --> 0:37:30.493 like things right, you know, because he's sick. But for me, 0:37:30.573 --> 0:37:34.933 the days that I'm feeling shitty, like just so our friend, 0:37:35.013 --> 0:37:37.453 don you know, I was talking to him like he's like, 0:37:37.493 --> 0:37:40.413 how are you. I'm like, you know, right now it's gray. 0:37:40.893 --> 0:37:44.133 It's really gray, little dark, like it's just tough right now. 0:37:44.213 --> 0:37:46.813 And he's like, be grateful for the darkness so you 0:37:46.853 --> 0:37:50.293 can really appreciate the joys when they come, not be great, 0:37:50.333 --> 0:37:51.973 you know, And I'm like, oh my gosh, you're right. 0:37:52.573 --> 0:37:55.013 That changed like that. It's like because without the lows, 0:37:55.013 --> 0:37:57.133 you can't appreciate the high. So the gratitude lists for 0:37:57.213 --> 0:38:01.133 me is exceptionally powerful, and not just writing it like what, 0:38:01.373 --> 0:38:04.493 but feeling it, like closing my eyes and saying, Okay, 0:38:04.573 --> 0:38:07.173 what am I grateful for? And some days it's a 0:38:07.253 --> 0:38:10.533 shower or you know, my phone so I can text 0:38:10.533 --> 0:38:13.853 a friend. Sometimes it's really not you know, it's really basic. 0:38:15.213 --> 0:38:18.413 Something else that has been incredibly helpful to me is 0:38:18.413 --> 0:38:21.573 when I'm feeling discontent and agitated, as I just sit 0:38:21.613 --> 0:38:23.053 in a chair with my feet on the floor, and 0:38:23.093 --> 0:38:25.613 sometimes i just hug myself and I close my eyes 0:38:25.653 --> 0:38:27.173 and I'll say, over and over and over and over 0:38:27.173 --> 0:38:29.893 and over, what do you need? What do you need? 0:38:30.893 --> 0:38:33.333 What do you need? Because my head's gonna tell me 0:38:33.373 --> 0:38:34.893 one thing. I need to work out, I need to 0:38:34.933 --> 0:38:36.653 move my body, I need to call, I need to 0:38:36.653 --> 0:38:39.693 do this, but my heart, I just I burst into 0:38:39.693 --> 0:38:42.653 tears before, and that's all I need is that release. 0:38:42.693 --> 0:38:44.893 I just need to cry. Or I need to take 0:38:44.893 --> 0:38:47.213 a bath. And sometimes it's eleven o'clock in the morning, 0:38:47.213 --> 0:38:49.253 and I'm like, who says you can't take a bath 0:38:49.293 --> 0:38:51.453 at eleven o'clock, you know? But we're like, oh, it's 0:38:51.453 --> 0:38:53.013 not nighttime, I can't do it. So I fill it 0:38:53.093 --> 0:38:55.333 up with magnesium, sults and all kinds of and I 0:38:55.373 --> 0:38:56.893 just get in and I get out, and I'm like, Okay, 0:38:56.933 --> 0:38:59.013 I feel better, you know. But it tells me. But 0:38:59.053 --> 0:39:00.933 I find that my intuition and my heart will tell 0:39:00.933 --> 0:39:02.893 me what I need versus my head, like what I 0:39:02.933 --> 0:39:05.413 should do or what I need to do, or what's 0:39:05.453 --> 0:39:07.613 on my list for today, Like when I'm just feeling 0:39:07.653 --> 0:39:12.893 really discontent, and I think one more thing is community. 0:39:12.893 --> 0:39:14.933 And I've talked about this a lot, and I'm sure 0:39:14.973 --> 0:39:17.613 you guys feel the same and said it a million times. 0:39:17.893 --> 0:39:20.653 But surrounding yourself with people who really have your back, 0:39:20.973 --> 0:39:22.813 you know. Like I have a group of five girlfriends 0:39:22.853 --> 0:39:25.893 that I call my board of directors, and they're all different. 0:39:26.093 --> 0:39:29.373 One is like a reverend and she smokes cigarettes. She's sober, 0:39:29.493 --> 0:39:32.533 and she's British and she's hilarious and I will call 0:39:32.573 --> 0:39:37.373 her if I want to just you know, complain event 0:39:37.413 --> 0:39:40.133 and get really funny. My other friend's super spiritual and 0:39:40.173 --> 0:39:41.773 she's you know, if I'm like I just need to. 0:39:42.133 --> 0:39:44.853 So I have this like group of women that I 0:39:44.853 --> 0:39:47.653 can go to at any time, you know. And so 0:39:47.733 --> 0:39:51.413 I think those are my three off the top of 0:39:51.413 --> 0:39:53.533 the head tips that have been really important that I 0:39:53.573 --> 0:39:55.613 could call it midnight if I had to and they'd 0:39:55.613 --> 0:39:57.733 pick up the phone, you know. But I didn't have 0:39:57.773 --> 0:39:59.173 that into Brie, I didn't have that. I mean when 0:39:59.173 --> 0:40:03.613 I was drinking everyone had been passed out right or 0:40:03.653 --> 0:40:04.493 not forig on the phone. 0:40:04.693 --> 0:40:06.693 Yeah. I think it's so important for people just to 0:40:06.693 --> 0:40:10.373 have fundamentals like those things that you just listed, because 0:40:11.773 --> 0:40:13.733 you know, maybe looking for that shift in your life 0:40:13.813 --> 0:40:16.653 or turning it around can seem daunting. It can seem 0:40:16.733 --> 0:40:19.133 like it's like, oh, man, like I really got to 0:40:19.213 --> 0:40:21.733 flip this thing on his head real quick. When it's 0:40:21.773 --> 0:40:24.213 like all you gotta do is start applying these little 0:40:24.293 --> 0:40:27.373 changes and allow those small victories to stack up and 0:40:28.253 --> 0:40:30.093 you look up one day and it's a huge victory. 0:40:30.173 --> 0:40:34.293 Your life changed and great things are happening, things you 0:40:34.333 --> 0:40:36.133 never imagined, and you don't feel like you have to 0:40:36.133 --> 0:40:37.133 blow it up, you. 0:40:37.093 --> 0:40:40.733 Know, like exactly like if I'm in self sabotaze mold, 0:40:41.133 --> 0:40:43.133 I will blow shit up, right. I will be like, 0:40:43.573 --> 0:40:45.533 I'm gonna send this email. I'm not you know, I'm 0:40:45.533 --> 0:40:47.733 gonna do what I'm gonna I'm gonna show them or 0:40:47.773 --> 0:40:50.973 I'm gonna whatever versus like I'm responsible for my actions 0:40:50.973 --> 0:40:53.253 and we as we like in the you know, the program. 0:40:53.253 --> 0:40:56.013 It's like there's sometimes I don't do things because I 0:40:56.013 --> 0:40:59.333 don't want to make an amends. However that sounds which 0:40:59.373 --> 0:41:01.653 is good because I'm not doing something that's harmful. But 0:41:01.693 --> 0:41:03.213 then I you know, I know if I do like, 0:41:03.813 --> 0:41:05.333 I'm gonna have to go back and say I'm sorry. 0:41:05.413 --> 0:41:06.973 There are times when I've said it and I'm like, 0:41:09.093 --> 0:41:12.333 I'm really sorry for the way I I spoke to 0:41:12.333 --> 0:41:16.173 you yesterday. But that's how we live our life because 0:41:16.173 --> 0:41:17.773 that's what we do when we get soberbs. You know 0:41:18.373 --> 0:41:21.413 what I've chosen to do when I got sober exactly. 0:41:21.653 --> 0:41:24.773 But yeah, I mean, we appreciate you joining us today. 0:41:25.773 --> 0:41:27.573 You know, I know you could be a lot of places, 0:41:27.613 --> 0:41:29.653 doing a lot of things, and for you to share 0:41:29.693 --> 0:41:32.413 your time and your energy with us, uh, we're grateful 0:41:32.453 --> 0:41:35.093 for that. It's like everybody else listening can definitely take 0:41:35.133 --> 0:41:38.173 something that's going to make their day better. And yeah, 0:41:38.173 --> 0:41:40.573 I just want thank you for coming on and we 0:41:40.613 --> 0:41:43.253 appreciate you. We hope to see you again soon, Like like. 0:41:43.213 --> 0:41:46.373 Donnie said, thank you for having me. 0:41:46.413 --> 0:41:48.613 This has been great, all right, thank you guys. See 0:41:48.653 --> 0:41:51.013 y'all next week. 0:41:59.293 --> 0:42:03.213 Come Back Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. 0:42:03.533 --> 0:42:08.213 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:42:08.293 --> 0:42:09.893 or wherever you get your podcasts.