Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing
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Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We just talked about some
Speaker 1: of the day's COVID and vaccine headlines. Dr Anthony Fauci,
Speaker 1: who's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and
Speaker 1: Infectious Diseases, he spoke to Bloomberg's David Western earlier today
Speaker 1: at the Bloomberg Business Week Live event, and they talked
Speaker 1: about the possibility of another COVID wave. We don't want
Speaker 1: to declare victory prematurely, but if we can get thee
Speaker 1: of adults vaccinated with at least one doze by the
Speaker 1: fourth of July, the way the president to set the goal.
Speaker 1: I think the chances of there being a surge or
Speaker 1: a rebound is extremely low. That's the reason why we
Speaker 1: want to continue to get people vaccinated, all right, And that,
Speaker 1: of course, was Dr Anthony Fauci, director with the National
Speaker 1: Institute of Aology and Infectious Diseases, catching up with our
Speaker 1: David Weston at the Bloomberg Business Week Live event. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about the latest on COVID and the vaccine. Suberklin
Speaker 1: is Professor of Molecular microbiology and Immunology at the Johns
Speaker 1: Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, Founder,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Her research on covering the
Speaker 1: mechanisms mediating how males and females differ in their immune
Speaker 1: responses to viral infection and vaccination. She's also co director
Speaker 1: of the Center for Women's Health, Sex and Gender Research.
Speaker 1: She's with us on the phone in Baltimore. Sober nice
Speaker 1: to have you here with Tim and me. So Dr
Speaker 1: Anthony Fauci I think surprised us by some of the
Speaker 1: things he had to say about maybe we won't need
Speaker 1: a booster, talking about the passa ability of another COVID wave.
Speaker 1: What's the reality, What are the discussions you all have
Speaker 1: it Johns Hopkins about maybe what's next from here? The
Speaker 1: good and the bad? I think I think the good
Speaker 1: the good news is that the vaccines are proving to
Speaker 1: be excellent and they're proving to be protective against some
Speaker 1: of these variants UM, including the variants that was initially
Speaker 1: identified in the United Kingdom UM, which has is quite
Speaker 1: prevalent now here in the United States. So I think
Speaker 1: that is very good news, and I think that likely
Speaker 1: contributed to the CDC's UM recommendation that that those of
Speaker 1: us who are vaccinated are allowed to be unmaked um
Speaker 1: outdoors and in some situations indoors UM. I think the
Speaker 1: the what we see in other countries cause us to
Speaker 1: pause and probably cause Dr Fauci to remind into all
Speaker 1: of us that that just because we are our numbers
Speaker 1: of cases are down here in the United States UM,
Speaker 1: and we're getting so many people vaccinated, that we're still
Speaker 1: not completely out of the weeds. So, you know, I
Speaker 1: think they're trying to, you know, emphasize that for anybody
Speaker 1: who is hesitant at this moment about receiving the vaccine
Speaker 1: but want to go and be in public settings without
Speaker 1: a mask. They've got to get vaccinated. And we have
Speaker 1: so many millions of people who have been vaccinated that
Speaker 1: our understanding about the safety and efficacy of these vaccines
Speaker 1: it's tremendous. They are safe and they are efflications. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to that point, Dr Klein, it does seem like and look,
Speaker 1: it's been a week since we got that news from
Speaker 1: the CDC about being able to take masks off if
Speaker 1: in certain situations, if we are vaccinated, it does really
Speaker 1: feel like and and look, this is my impression, but
Speaker 1: correct and correct me if I'm wrong. But if you
Speaker 1: have been vaccinated with with one of the vaccines available
Speaker 1: for emergencies authorization in the US, it's it's like, seems
Speaker 1: like it's back to life. Is as normal it is,
Speaker 1: it has, it has that flavor and that potential. And
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think this is this is
Speaker 1: so important, and I think from a public health perspective,
Speaker 1: this is so important because if if those of us
Speaker 1: who work with these vaccines study these vaccines, know these
Speaker 1: vaccines to be both safe and efficacious, if we believe
Speaker 1: in how well they're working, if we believe the data,
Speaker 1: which I do, that have come out about the effectiveness
Speaker 1: of these vaccines against the variant, then we should be
Speaker 1: able to take our masks off and trust that we
Speaker 1: will be protected, in particular against severe disease. UM. No
Speaker 1: vaccine is going to be a hundred percent, so as
Speaker 1: your listeners may have, you know, those those one off
Speaker 1: stories that somebody who got vaccinated but who's still got infected.
Speaker 1: I'm even thinking about our story about about the Yankee UM.
Speaker 1: You know it is going to happen. But I think
Speaker 1: what needs to be appreciated is this is precisely what
Speaker 1: can happen during a typical flu season. Is as we
Speaker 1: prepare for the flu season in the coming fall, we
Speaker 1: know that vaccines they reduced the probability of severe illness
Speaker 1: and death, they may not completely prevent you from ever
Speaker 1: getting infected. And I think that's what we're seeing in
Speaker 1: in some circumstances with the current um current stars Kobe
Speaker 1: two vaccines. And the other thing is Tim and I
Speaker 1: were talking about before we got going about how scientists
Speaker 1: are racing to figure out the so called correlates of
Speaker 1: correlates of protection against COVID, in other words, which test
Speaker 1: results a shore immunity. I mean, we don't exactly know
Speaker 1: when the protection from these vaccines is expected to wane.
Speaker 1: It's tricky and we don't necessarily the tests yet right
Speaker 1: to tell us exactly that You phrase all of that beautifully,
Speaker 1: That is all completely correct. And you know, I think
Speaker 1: as these companies were, were, you know, very acutely aware
Speaker 1: of how important it was to get these vaccines and
Speaker 1: determine their safety and define their efficacy based on the
Speaker 1: ability of the vaccine at present preventing excuse me, severe
Speaker 1: disease and illness they weren't going, and then doing the
Speaker 1: more detailed assessments that researchers like my myself typically do.
Speaker 1: So now you've got to let the rest of us
Speaker 1: catch up. Do our very detailed analyzes, study this durability,
Speaker 1: study the types of immune responses, and see which of
Speaker 1: those immune responses best predicts Okay, so when we say
Speaker 1: a correlative protection, we're looking for what is that measure
Speaker 1: of your immunity that sessed predicts protection. I want to
Speaker 1: get right into it when it when it comes to
Speaker 1: the questions that so many people have about pregnant women
Speaker 1: and vaccines, what do we know right now? What we
Speaker 1: know right now is we have through them the PBC
Speaker 1: Reporting system. UM, there have been thousands of pregnant women
Speaker 1: who perceived the available COVID nineteen vaccines. They have been
Speaker 1: proven to be safe UM in pregnant women. There is
Speaker 1: no evidence that these vaccines are causing UM adverse reactions
Speaker 1: either serious or non serious, at at a higher rate
Speaker 1: in pregnant women. So and and I think now knowing
Speaker 1: and having considerably more data over the course of this pandemic,
Speaker 1: that infection can uh results in you know, serious effects
Speaker 1: on preg that se outcomes including things like pre term
Speaker 1: birth UM. I think pregnant women UM. And the recommendation
Speaker 1: by the CDC is that pregnant women in their second
Speaker 1: or third trimester should definitely be getting getting vaccinated. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: what do though, pregnant women need to understand about kind
Speaker 1: of how this vaccine works to kind of feel more
Speaker 1: self assured or are confident about getting it. Absolutely so,
Speaker 1: you know, I think the nature of these platforms and
Speaker 1: the terminology that's used for these platforms m r N
Speaker 1: A virus vector vaccines these confound quite intimidating, as though
Speaker 1: they could do something off target, either to the pregnant
Speaker 1: women or their baby. And there is absolutely nothing to
Speaker 1: be concerned about. These are not causing infections in US.
Speaker 1: These are vaccines that, through their delivery mechanisms, are stimulating
Speaker 1: our cells um to to make in this case, the
Speaker 1: spike antigen um, which is what our immune system um
Speaker 1: recognizes in the stars Covey two virus. It's just proteins,
Speaker 1: so it can't replicate, it can't in fact, it can't
Speaker 1: do anything to harm either the pregnant woman or her fetus.
Speaker 1: So um, yeah, Professor Klein, I just want to jump
Speaker 1: in because, well, how would you answer the question if
Speaker 1: somebody came to you and said, but wait a second,
Speaker 1: we don't yet know if the vaccine has an effect
Speaker 1: on a baby in two three years. Absolutely, I would
Speaker 1: say that there's no evidence from any vaccine ever that
Speaker 1: there are those types of long term effects. But what
Speaker 1: there is ample evidence of is in utero infection during
Speaker 1: pregnan can have long term implications on the baby one
Speaker 1: to five ten years later, even in cases where the
Speaker 1: virus itself is not transmitted to the baby. So I
Speaker 1: think I think pregnant women need to be considerably more
Speaker 1: concerned that the probability of getting inspected in and getting sick,
Speaker 1: very sick, and having to potentially be hospitalized is greater
Speaker 1: if you're not vaccinated. It's greater for pregnant than non
Speaker 1: pregnant women. And the one way to mitigate this is
Speaker 1: by getting vaccinated. All right, some good advice, And I
Speaker 1: want to just mention one thing because I heard somebody
Speaker 1: talking about this to the CDC recommendation that women who
Speaker 1: need mammograms try to get them before vaccination or six
Speaker 1: weeks after a vaccination because of swollen lymph nodes under
Speaker 1: their arm. Like, we are finding out more information so
Speaker 1: that you have an understanding about when to do these things. Again,
Speaker 1: this is I don't want to say it's a Senex experiment,
Speaker 1: but we're watching the research play out in real time
Speaker 1: right now, and each day we do learn more and more,
Speaker 1: but still so many questions, especially when it comes to
Speaker 1: that question that you ask, Carol, to what extent does
Speaker 1: do these vaccines last past six, eight, ten months? Right? Exactly?
Speaker 1: We don't know yet, right because we've done it a
Speaker 1: little bit differently. Dr saber Kline. She's Professor of Molecular
Speaker 1: Microbiology Nammunology at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health,
Speaker 1: co director of the Center for Women's Health, Sex and
Speaker 1: Gender Research. Great to have her back with us on
Speaker 1: the phone from Baltimore. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Bloomberg Sarah Fryar. She has been following how
Speaker 1: social networks circulate information for years, and our latest reporting
Speaker 1: in the magazine covers how social networks are exporting disinformation
Speaker 1: about the COVID vaccine, and Tim exporting is the keyword. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it certainly is. Content that's blocked or flagged in the
Speaker 1: US often continues to circulate in other languages. The Joel.
Speaker 1: The question that I have whenever I read a story
Speaker 1: about content moderation and Facebook is these companies are most
Speaker 1: powerful technology companies with the brightest minds. Why can't they
Speaker 1: get this under control? Well, they can, um, and they've
Speaker 1: been cracking down on it. But in the case of
Speaker 1: the story that Um Sarah did, the problem becomes um
Speaker 1: that things get lost in translation, or that more more accurately,
Speaker 1: translations are still getting out there with the mins information. So, so, Sarah,
Speaker 1: can you help us get to the bottom this Why
Speaker 1: does it keep happening. Well, in this case, the global pandemic,
Speaker 1: it's a different situation than we've seen in the past.
Speaker 1: We've had this debate about Facebook and YouTube for years,
Speaker 1: the fact that they really just don't have people who
Speaker 1: understand and can moderate content in all the languages that
Speaker 1: they offer their services in. Their machine learning for finding
Speaker 1: vaccine misinformation and harmful misinformation is only proficient and about
Speaker 1: a dozen languages, and Facebook has offered in more than
Speaker 1: a hundred languages. So just just keep that in mind. Um.
Speaker 1: But the difference with this pandemic is it's it's a
Speaker 1: phenomenon that is global, and the information that is coming
Speaker 1: and circulating globally it has a similar potency to US
Speaker 1: pop culture. Researchers told me, I mean, this is just
Speaker 1: it's what's what we're talking about here. We've had access
Speaker 1: to the vaccines sooner here than they have in other countries,
Speaker 1: and that culture of the debates, the rumors of things
Speaker 1: that have already gone viral and gotten banned or gotten
Speaker 1: labeled in the US on YouTube and Facebook have then
Speaker 1: been translated into other languages and and are having a
Speaker 1: whole other cycle elsewhere and outside of the realm of
Speaker 1: these tools that can can really bring it under control.
Speaker 1: And just for our audience, you recognize her voice. Bloomberg
Speaker 1: News technology reporter and author of No Filter, The Inside
Speaker 1: Story of Instagram, Sarah Friar. She's with us from San Francisco,
Speaker 1: and of course Bloomberg Business we get out or Joe
Speaker 1: Webber right here to a friend that I forgot to
Speaker 1: tell everyone. Sarah, you know, we do have the technology
Speaker 1: available to us, and I believe Skype does it like
Speaker 1: real time translations in many different languages, and it's just
Speaker 1: so hard for me to to understand why if this
Speaker 1: type of machine learning is available, it is still so
Speaker 1: challenging for these companies to get this under control. Well,
Speaker 1: every time something new occurs, you have to train a
Speaker 1: model to find the images that UM that correspond with
Speaker 1: that problem and and understand the local context. Maybe people
Speaker 1: don't call it UM the same. There is a lot
Speaker 1: of colloquialisms around how you describe immunizations. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of UM, a lot of content that that may
Speaker 1: go viral in the US and and may not pop
Speaker 1: up for months elsewhere. And so I think that the
Speaker 1: UM the issue really is one of investment, is the
Speaker 1: fact that these companies have only just started to crack
Speaker 1: down strongly in English, and even then, I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, but I see so many rumors still circulating
Speaker 1: in English. People who are talking about, you know, the
Speaker 1: false notion that that the fiber maderna vaccine can shed
Speaker 1: to others, or cobb in fertility, all of those, all
Speaker 1: those things, those harmful things are still spreading. So the
Speaker 1: English version of this is not proficient. You just need
Speaker 1: to imagine that if you are witnessing this media environment
Speaker 1: in English, that is definitely worth in any other language.
Speaker 1: I thought that was particularly interesting. There's a paragraph in
Speaker 1: the story about Arabic subtitles in particular. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us about that one? And what a review by the
Speaker 1: Institute of Strategic Dialogue found. So, the Institute of the
Speaker 1: Strategic Dialogue found that there were these US originated videos
Speaker 1: of women shaking and convulsing purportedly after getting the shot. Um,
Speaker 1: but they were obviously, you know, lacking in context, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't verified. And then um they were labeled as
Speaker 1: meeting to be fact checked in the US on Facebook.
Speaker 1: But those same videos exactly the same content, just with
Speaker 1: Arabic subtitles. We're not caught by the same machine learning
Speaker 1: algorithms in in Arab language countries. So so I think
Speaker 1: that this is what we've seen happen over and over,
Speaker 1: is that the US drama occurs and gets evaluated and
Speaker 1: and we saw it also with the even before the
Speaker 1: era of vaccines, we saw with the planned Demic video.
Speaker 1: And if you guys remember that was the highly conspiratorial
Speaker 1: video documentary that you know, went and had millions of
Speaker 1: views on Facebook and YouTube before it was taken down
Speaker 1: finally by the platforms for its harmful impact. And that
Speaker 1: video was circulating in other countries for days, becoming a
Speaker 1: problem before it was addressed in other languages. So what
Speaker 1: do the social media companies, say, Sarah, when it comes
Speaker 1: to basically policing platforms outside the US, It is really
Speaker 1: not that transparent. Facebook skills is not disclosed, how many
Speaker 1: moderators it has in a certain language. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: any comparative data on how it's work in the US
Speaker 1: compares or in Europe compared to work elsewhere. Um, we
Speaker 1: get bulk statistics from from companies like like Alphabets, Google
Speaker 1: and YouTube, but we do not have any transparency into
Speaker 1: the actual effectiveness we are relying on this anecdotal research
Speaker 1: from people who who spend their whole career looking at
Speaker 1: this problem, and they're telling us that this is the
Speaker 1: trend that they're seeing. But Um, but I really think
Speaker 1: that in order to get to the bottom of this,
Speaker 1: we're gonna need a lot more information from these companies
Speaker 1: that have now had had so much control over our
Speaker 1: global information diet Sarah, I know you've spent months reporting
Speaker 1: on misinformation when it comes to vaccines on these platforms,
Speaker 1: in years reporting on these platforms, and in the research
Speaker 1: for your book. UM, give us the motivation for people
Speaker 1: who do spread this disinformation in just the lass thirty
Speaker 1: seconds that we have with you. It is about being
Speaker 1: a personality on the internet, about getting that engagement, and
Speaker 1: in some cases about making money. I mean, the people
Speaker 1: who are telling you that vaccines are are scary and
Speaker 1: possibly harmful, they're also trying to sell you alternatives. They're saying,
Speaker 1: by my supplements instead, or you know, come to my
Speaker 1: mindfulness retreat instead, UM, listen to my podcast. And so
Speaker 1: I think there is a commercial aspect, there is an
Speaker 1: ego aspect to this, and there are some people who
Speaker 1: really have fallen down the rabbit hole and believe it
Speaker 1: and are trying to to keep each other's safe. And
Speaker 1: those are the people that we need to make sure
Speaker 1: get the right information. Well, great continuing coverage, Sarah, Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Bloomberg News technology reporter, author of No Filter,
Speaker 1: the inside story of Instagram. Sarah Fire on the phone
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. Are thanks to Bloomberg Business we get
Speaker 1: out to Jill Weber in our Interactive broker's studio. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. This is I'm
Speaker 1: just checking. It's our most red story in the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: in the past eight hours. It's about Morgan Stanley, now
Speaker 1: the latest big US bank to shake up its leadership.
Speaker 1: So here with this scoop is Bloomberg News Finance reporter
Speaker 1: Street n Uragan. He's in our Interactive Brokers studio. So
Speaker 1: you know where I want to go. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the visual. I know everybody's saying it. So four white
Speaker 1: guys and Goodwind on radio and good thing. We're on radio,
Speaker 1: but on YouTube. I don't know if everybody can see this. Wait,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna low. It's all over Twitter here it is, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's all over Twitter. Um, did James Gorman not get
Speaker 1: the memo? Look, I think, to be completely fair, Morgan
Speaker 1: Stanley would probably tell you that this is a moment
Speaker 1: in Times snapshot, even before diversity was a buzzword on
Speaker 1: Wall Street. This is a firm that had Ruth poor
Speaker 1: At as it's CFO six years ago. She left and
Speaker 1: went to Google and rose higher there, and then there
Speaker 1: was Zoe Cruise before the financial crisis around around that
Speaker 1: time two thousand seven two, when she was the co
Speaker 1: president of the firm. So Morgan Stanley has had women
Speaker 1: in senior leadership roles because it's a separate question why
Speaker 1: they have not been able to climb to the highest rank.
Speaker 1: But it would not be totally fair to say that
Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley stands out different from every other bank. But
Speaker 1: at a time that we are in right now where
Speaker 1: you're seeing succession planning everywhere, and you know, when the
Speaker 1: senior leaders are thinking about and the heels of JP
Speaker 1: Morgan what the future looks like, it does it does
Speaker 1: strike a bit of a discordant note. But if you're
Speaker 1: CEO S sixty two and the next generation is in
Speaker 1: the mid fifties. You still have a Wall Street that
Speaker 1: is populated with you know, old white men in that
Speaker 1: racket who have that experience, who have rose through the ranks,
Speaker 1: who have got that divisional experience across the board. The
Speaker 1: real pipeline, and it is coming up elsewhere, perhaps not
Speaker 1: as fast as it should be, but the real pipeline
Speaker 1: is probably in the late thirties, in the early forties,
Speaker 1: mid forties generation, and that crew is still a while
Speaker 1: away from getting the top perch at any major institution. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the new co presidents are are ted. Pick is fifty
Speaker 1: two Andy sapristein who are these people and who is
Speaker 1: this quartet? Well, that Pick is, of course, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: seen as the turnaround artists at Morgan Stanley. He started
Speaker 1: his career out as a e c M banker equity
Speaker 1: capital markets. He out with the ip of Google, he
Speaker 1: helped with the IP of Blackstone. But then of course
Speaker 1: his real climb at Morgan Stanley is considered with what
Speaker 1: he did post crisis, and the crisis was a really
Speaker 1: difficult time for Morgan Standay like most other banks, but
Speaker 1: for Morgan Stanley in particular. But post crisis he helped
Speaker 1: rebuild the trading division, the equities group. He took it
Speaker 1: to the dominant player, to the number one standing on
Speaker 1: Wall Street. Then he was tasked with repairing their fixed
Speaker 1: income division, which really was, you know, to be completely blunt,
Speaker 1: a train wreck, and he took some hard steps there,
Speaker 1: and hard steps in Wall Street means a big number
Speaker 1: of job cuts. But since then it does seem to
Speaker 1: have rebounded. The trading group has done really well. And
Speaker 1: then he was given oversight of its traders and dealmaker's
Speaker 1: head of the Corporate Investment Bank. So it made sense
Speaker 1: for him to be rising to the position of a
Speaker 1: president because the c IB is about fifty of the
Speaker 1: firm's revenue. The other half of the majority of the
Speaker 1: other half comes from wealth management, and the Sapperstein has
Speaker 1: helped Bill Morgan Stanley into this wealth management powerhouse, and
Speaker 1: that has been carried out really in the course of
Speaker 1: the last ten years. You think about the Smith Barney
Speaker 1: acquisition in two thousand ten, from there all the way
Speaker 1: through to the e Trade purchase last here, which was
Speaker 1: a Jumboard deal. The biggest bank deal in over a
Speaker 1: decade or probably even since the Smith Barney deal again
Speaker 1: was carried out by Morgan Stanley, and that has shifted
Speaker 1: the center of gravity at the film. It really has
Speaker 1: his balance of you know, they have the standing among
Speaker 1: the elites of investment banking as well as such a
Speaker 1: big operation intending to customers his money. Concidal living anytime
Speaker 1: seeing that it doesn't sound like he's keen on leaving
Speaker 1: anytime soon. Our understanding he's already told the board, the
Speaker 1: scenior management that he wants to stick around for at
Speaker 1: least three more years. And who can blame him? This
Speaker 1: is the best performing major US banks talk in the
Speaker 1: last five years. And the wind going is this good?
Speaker 1: Would you really want to walk off into the sunset?
Speaker 1: So what happens now is these these four individuals and
Speaker 1: as as you write, the shuffle thrust the quartet into
Speaker 1: a public bake off to succeed Gorman. What happens now,
Speaker 1: well I did speak with Gorman and he said it
Speaker 1: gives them time to spread their wings. So it really
Speaker 1: is going to play off as a bike off. You
Speaker 1: have these four people right now and these would be
Speaker 1: seen as the leading contenders. But that's now, that's six
Speaker 1: months from today, that's nine months from today. Three years
Speaker 1: is a long time on Wall Street, her stock at
Speaker 1: record high, your businesses that are firing on all cylinders,
Speaker 1: something might go wrong. Other contenders might come about the
Speaker 1: bye side is of Washington liquidity. Some of these people
Speaker 1: might get pushed away too much. Higher paying jobs are
Speaker 1: a very different jobs. So just because these four other
Speaker 1: leading contenders right now doesn't necessarily mean this is how
Speaker 1: it will look three or four or five years from today.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, do they do anything there to increase
Speaker 1: you know, the amount of women in terms of leadership,
Speaker 1: you know the pipeline here and just got about twenty
Speaker 1: seconds here. I think they will tell you that they
Speaker 1: are doing everything that they can and to boost that bipline.
Speaker 1: They will tell you they have a number of senior women.
Speaker 1: Susie Huang, who's the cohead of their investment bank, is
Speaker 1: one of the most senior Asian women across Wall Street,
Speaker 1: and they are trying to promote other women as well.
Speaker 1: But when we see the big headlines like this, when
Speaker 1: we see the contenders, it does send out a message
Speaker 1: that maybe they would should have thought of the creative
Speaker 1: solution when it comes to thinking about successes, just a
Speaker 1: little diversity, little diversity check out that story at Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com if you want to see the picture to
Speaker 1: gain an idea of what we're talking about. Trinadaraj And
Speaker 1: broke this story. He got the scoop financial Bloomberg News
Speaker 1: in our Interactor Broker studio, Marc a journal. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: you let me drive, No, no, no, night, please out
Speaker 1: of the riding vel. I want to drive. Just drives
Speaker 1: the questions. Your job. This is the drive to the globe.
Speaker 1: Thanks well, try us on Bloomberg Radio. All right, just
Speaker 1: about ten minutes left in today's trading session, so let's
Speaker 1: get to it in his time for the drive to
Speaker 1: the close. Back with us is margat Bittel. She is
Speaker 1: senior portfolio manager at Wells Fargo Asset Management, billion dollars
Speaker 1: in assets under management. Market back with us on the
Speaker 1: phone from Boston. So market, It's been an interesting week,
Speaker 1: an interesting couple of weeks. Whether it was inflation news
Speaker 1: that sometimes made investors a little bit nervous, certainly in
Speaker 1: the equity markets, and then sometimes not. You know, we're
Speaker 1: watching the crypto markets, which fell out of bed yesterday,
Speaker 1: bounced back and they're bouncing back some more today. How
Speaker 1: do you make sense of what really matters fundamentally to
Speaker 1: the equity trade. Well, I think what the market is
Speaker 1: looking at most of all is the sense policy on
Speaker 1: interest rates. Uh, that's what's really I think relief that
Speaker 1: from the FED minutes that the FED is nowhere near
Speaker 1: thinking about raising rates because of inflation helped to draw
Speaker 1: the tech sector which was over sold anyway. And I
Speaker 1: think the market is really looking for large themes and
Speaker 1: narratives at this point. But that that's the most important
Speaker 1: thing is is their inflation is a feed very tighten
Speaker 1: and I think a review of their minutes and that
Speaker 1: isn't the case. So the market is having a little
Speaker 1: bit of a relief rarely here. But I guess the
Speaker 1: question is is what changes the Fed's mind? What what?
Speaker 1: What are the inflation numbers that makes people and the
Speaker 1: FED start to think differently about their targets for raising rates. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's the problem is because the Fed has
Speaker 1: not made that clear. Whether that's deliberate or they'll strew
Speaker 1: up deciding among themselves what the signals would be. Uh,
Speaker 1: But basically they haven't made clear what exactly be a
Speaker 1: trigger point to change and begin to draw liquidity out.
Speaker 1: And also the Feed is talks about inflation, but the
Speaker 1: definition of inflation and the numbers that they look at
Speaker 1: is inflation is not necessarily with the markets looking at
Speaker 1: with consumers, with businesses looking at for their price increases.
Speaker 1: So I think it's a little bit of confusion of well,
Speaker 1: exactly what is the inflation rate that people should look
Speaker 1: at to try to figure out what the FED would
Speaker 1: would be sensitive to moving And so there's a lot
Speaker 1: of uncertainty, and so I think people are just really
Speaker 1: trying to get a grip on what will make the
Speaker 1: FED react market will look. I'm a little confused that
Speaker 1: because those Fed minutes came out Him and I were
Speaker 1: on air, and you did see equities take a little
Speaker 1: bit of a of a dive on the FED minutes,
Speaker 1: especially because the FED was talking a little bit about
Speaker 1: acid prices and some concerns um and seeming to that
Speaker 1: there are members of FED starting to consider maybe talking
Speaker 1: about kind of what was the next move for the FED,
Speaker 1: and we did see rates go up. So how do
Speaker 1: you see today being a relief rally off of that?
Speaker 1: Did you think there was a rethink a little bit
Speaker 1: after that initial reaction to the FED minutes yesterday? Yes,
Speaker 1: because I think people are trying to parce out what
Speaker 1: will be the FEDS reaction to what specifically, and that
Speaker 1: isn't very clear. Uh. It's just we need to take
Speaker 1: the FEDS pulse to figure out what they're looking at
Speaker 1: and how close they are. And that's what the market
Speaker 1: was doing yesterday. Today the market feels a little relieved. Um.
Speaker 1: And so I think that I personally think it will
Speaker 1: be a long time before we see the FED do
Speaker 1: anything in the way of titan need to try to
Speaker 1: race rate. What do you mean that long time? Uh,
Speaker 1: certainly for the rest of this year, well intil next year,
Speaker 1: the rest of this year, well into next year. So
Speaker 1: is that something that with you when you see these,
Speaker 1: when you know the text off a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1: Is that something that you think is a widely held belief? Uh? No,
Speaker 1: I think people are really trying to figure out what
Speaker 1: they can match onto because we've never had a recession
Speaker 1: like this COVID recession. It hasn't been driven by economic conditions. Uh.
Speaker 1: The FED has a monetary policy that we've never seen before.
Speaker 1: And also the set is saying, UM, watch for our reaction,
Speaker 1: as opposed to saying these are the data that we're
Speaker 1: looking for that will be our trigger. So the market
Speaker 1: is sort of flailing around saying, well, what inflation numbers
Speaker 1: have been looking at? Uh, certainly in the real world
Speaker 1: we're seeing that, but the fit isn't reacting to it.
Speaker 1: So and then I think that keys into the biggest sector,
Speaker 1: which is a tech sector that's been the most overvalued
Speaker 1: performance wise, and so it's the most sensitive at any
Speaker 1: time we see any any wobbly in what the ten
Speaker 1: years doing that makes weakness in tech. They ten years
Speaker 1: rallied text up, especially text have been I think gotten
Speaker 1: pretty oversold here over the short term. Worrying about interest rates, Well,
Speaker 1: how do you think investor should think about tech specifically?
Speaker 1: Should you even be thinking short term or do we
Speaker 1: no longer term? Especially some of those big momentum players
Speaker 1: that they're going to be around for a while. That's
Speaker 1: where we're still going to go see some growth. That's
Speaker 1: what we're gonna still see some momentum. And it makes
Speaker 1: sense fundamentally. Yes, I think that those companies, the high quality,
Speaker 1: proven growers, are going to continue to be above average
Speaker 1: performers over the next few years um. But still we
Speaker 1: have a lot of short term trading nervous money that's
Speaker 1: come out of check and when they come out of
Speaker 1: chech they come out of the small, risky names and
Speaker 1: the big names too. So I think you're just seeing
Speaker 1: a little bit of market volatility. So we're trying to
Speaker 1: look through that and not really time to trade the
Speaker 1: tech sector based on the short term moves, but just
Speaker 1: a long term we think we'll still see higher growth
Speaker 1: out of that sector than most other market sectors, so
Speaker 1: we still like the sector a lot. What are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on cryptocurrency? Yesterday we saw quite the decline, with
Speaker 1: bitcoin more than before making up much of that, and
Speaker 1: bitcoin at last check trading higher on the day today. Um,
Speaker 1: what are clients asking you about bit quinn and how
Speaker 1: are you feeling about it? Uh, we're not seeing many
Speaker 1: questions on that. It's because our clients are really broken advised,
Speaker 1: so when they get nervous about that sort of thing,
Speaker 1: they talked to their advisor. He calms them down and
Speaker 1: then they feel feel better about the world. We think
Speaker 1: it's it's a speculative development and it doesn't give you
Speaker 1: the information say that if you look at the price
Speaker 1: of gold might give you about market sentiment and risk
Speaker 1: and so forth. That's any more questions about it that
Speaker 1: is interesting. I mean, I don't know, how do you
Speaker 1: think about you you know, have seen a lot of
Speaker 1: different cycles, a lot of funky new wave investments, whether
Speaker 1: it was high yield junk bonds way back when that
Speaker 1: have now become kind of a norm normal part of
Speaker 1: an investors portfolio. How do you think about digital currencies? Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's mostly um market, that participants are short
Speaker 1: term traders, opportunistic investors, short term and maybe new people
Speaker 1: to trading. So it seems very exciting and new and fresh,
Speaker 1: and that's how we always learned and until the market.
Speaker 1: This is a good lesson about fundamentals. So I think
Speaker 1: it's it's just really reflecting liquidity, a surge of new investors,
Speaker 1: something that seems on the surface very exciting and new
Speaker 1: and techie, and but not much to do with fundamentals
Speaker 1: or relative value of currencies for example, or anything about inflation.
Speaker 1: It's just too volal. I should say, Bitcoin pair gains
Speaker 1: as the Treasury seeks a tough and tax compliance, but
Speaker 1: now is back above so up another eighteen hundred dollars today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've seen we've seen really, really dramatic moves. One quick
Speaker 1: last point twenty seconds here, Margie, Um, what do you
Speaker 1: want to avoid in this environment? We think that some
Speaker 1: of the smaller tech names are still a little vulnerable
Speaker 1: here because we still seek some money coming out of
Speaker 1: those sectors. And we think some of the economically sensitive
Speaker 1: sectors who have gotten way ahead of themselves with market
Speaker 1: enthusiasm on the rebaild, we think they're going to be
Speaker 1: kind of dead money for the next six months. All right,
Speaker 1: Good to know, Good to check in with you. Market Patel,
Speaker 1: Senior portfolio manager at Wells Fargo Asset Management, five billion
Speaker 1: dollars in assets under management, joining us on the phone
Speaker 1: from Boston. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download
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