1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovk. We're here every day bringing 3 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 10 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We just talked about some 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: of the day's COVID and vaccine headlines. Dr Anthony Fauci, 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: who's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: Infectious Diseases, he spoke to Bloomberg's David Western earlier today 14 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: at the Bloomberg Business Week Live event, and they talked 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,639 Speaker 1: about the possibility of another COVID wave. We don't want 16 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: to declare victory prematurely, but if we can get thee 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: of adults vaccinated with at least one doze by the 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: fourth of July, the way the president to set the goal. 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: I think the chances of there being a surge or 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: a rebound is extremely low. That's the reason why we 21 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: want to continue to get people vaccinated, all right, And that, 22 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,199 Speaker 1: of course, was Dr Anthony Fauci, director with the National 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: Institute of Aology and Infectious Diseases, catching up with our 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: David Weston at the Bloomberg Business Week Live event. Let's 25 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: talk about the latest on COVID and the vaccine. Suberklin 26 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: is Professor of Molecular microbiology and Immunology at the Johns 27 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, Founder, 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Her research on covering the 29 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: mechanisms mediating how males and females differ in their immune 30 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: responses to viral infection and vaccination. She's also co director 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: of the Center for Women's Health, Sex and Gender Research. 32 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: She's with us on the phone in Baltimore. Sober nice 33 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: to have you here with Tim and me. So Dr 34 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: Anthony Fauci I think surprised us by some of the 35 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: things he had to say about maybe we won't need 36 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: a booster, talking about the passa ability of another COVID wave. 37 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: What's the reality, What are the discussions you all have 38 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: it Johns Hopkins about maybe what's next from here? The 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: good and the bad? I think I think the good 40 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: the good news is that the vaccines are proving to 41 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: be excellent and they're proving to be protective against some 42 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: of these variants UM, including the variants that was initially 43 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: identified in the United Kingdom UM, which has is quite 44 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: prevalent now here in the United States. So I think 45 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: that is very good news, and I think that likely 46 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 1: contributed to the CDC's UM recommendation that that those of 47 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: us who are vaccinated are allowed to be unmaked um 48 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: outdoors and in some situations indoors UM. I think the 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: the what we see in other countries cause us to 50 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: pause and probably cause Dr Fauci to remind into all 51 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: of us that that just because we are our numbers 52 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: of cases are down here in the United States UM, 53 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: and we're getting so many people vaccinated, that we're still 54 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: not completely out of the weeds. So, you know, I 55 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: think they're trying to, you know, emphasize that for anybody 56 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: who is hesitant at this moment about receiving the vaccine 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: but want to go and be in public settings without 58 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: a mask. They've got to get vaccinated. And we have 59 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: so many millions of people who have been vaccinated that 60 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: our understanding about the safety and efficacy of these vaccines 61 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: it's tremendous. They are safe and they are efflications. Yeah, 62 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: to that point, Dr Klein, it does seem like and look, 63 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: it's been a week since we got that news from 64 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: the CDC about being able to take masks off if 65 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: in certain situations, if we are vaccinated, it does really 66 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: feel like and and look, this is my impression, but 67 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: correct and correct me if I'm wrong. But if you 68 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: have been vaccinated with with one of the vaccines available 69 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: for emergencies authorization in the US, it's it's like, seems 70 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: like it's back to life. Is as normal it is, 71 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: it has, it has that flavor and that potential. And 72 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think this is this is 73 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: so important, and I think from a public health perspective, 74 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: this is so important because if if those of us 75 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: who work with these vaccines study these vaccines, know these 76 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: vaccines to be both safe and efficacious, if we believe 77 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: in how well they're working, if we believe the data, 78 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: which I do, that have come out about the effectiveness 79 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: of these vaccines against the variant, then we should be 80 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: able to take our masks off and trust that we 81 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: will be protected, in particular against severe disease. UM. No 82 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: vaccine is going to be a hundred percent, so as 83 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: your listeners may have, you know, those those one off 84 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,040 Speaker 1: stories that somebody who got vaccinated but who's still got infected. 85 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: I'm even thinking about our story about about the Yankee UM. 86 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 1: You know it is going to happen. But I think 87 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: what needs to be appreciated is this is precisely what 88 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: can happen during a typical flu season. Is as we 89 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: prepare for the flu season in the coming fall, we 90 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: know that vaccines they reduced the probability of severe illness 91 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: and death, they may not completely prevent you from ever 92 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: getting infected. And I think that's what we're seeing in 93 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: in some circumstances with the current um current stars Kobe 94 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 1: two vaccines. And the other thing is Tim and I 95 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: were talking about before we got going about how scientists 96 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: are racing to figure out the so called correlates of 97 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,119 Speaker 1: correlates of protection against COVID, in other words, which test 98 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: results a shore immunity. I mean, we don't exactly know 99 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: when the protection from these vaccines is expected to wane. 100 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: It's tricky and we don't necessarily the tests yet right 101 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: to tell us exactly that You phrase all of that beautifully, 102 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: That is all completely correct. And you know, I think 103 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: as these companies were, were, you know, very acutely aware 104 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: of how important it was to get these vaccines and 105 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: determine their safety and define their efficacy based on the 106 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: ability of the vaccine at present preventing excuse me, severe 107 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: disease and illness they weren't going, and then doing the 108 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: more detailed assessments that researchers like my myself typically do. 109 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: So now you've got to let the rest of us 110 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: catch up. Do our very detailed analyzes, study this durability, 111 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: study the types of immune responses, and see which of 112 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: those immune responses best predicts Okay, so when we say 113 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: a correlative protection, we're looking for what is that measure 114 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: of your immunity that sessed predicts protection. I want to 115 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 1: get right into it when it when it comes to 116 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: the questions that so many people have about pregnant women 117 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: and vaccines, what do we know right now? What we 118 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: know right now is we have through them the PBC 119 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: Reporting system. UM, there have been thousands of pregnant women 120 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: who perceived the available COVID nineteen vaccines. They have been 121 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: proven to be safe UM in pregnant women. There is 122 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: no evidence that these vaccines are causing UM adverse reactions 123 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: either serious or non serious, at at a higher rate 124 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: in pregnant women. So and and I think now knowing 125 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: and having considerably more data over the course of this pandemic, 126 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: that infection can uh results in you know, serious effects 127 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: on preg that se outcomes including things like pre term 128 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: birth UM. I think pregnant women UM. And the recommendation 129 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 1: by the CDC is that pregnant women in their second 130 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: or third trimester should definitely be getting getting vaccinated. Excuse me, 131 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: what do though, pregnant women need to understand about kind 132 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: of how this vaccine works to kind of feel more 133 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:25,559 Speaker 1: self assured or are confident about getting it. Absolutely so, 134 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: you know, I think the nature of these platforms and 135 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: the terminology that's used for these platforms m r N 136 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: A virus vector vaccines these confound quite intimidating, as though 137 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: they could do something off target, either to the pregnant 138 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: women or their baby. And there is absolutely nothing to 139 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: be concerned about. These are not causing infections in US. 140 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 1: These are vaccines that, through their delivery mechanisms, are stimulating 141 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: our cells um to to make in this case, the 142 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: spike antigen um, which is what our immune system um 143 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: recognizes in the stars Covey two virus. It's just proteins, 144 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: so it can't replicate, it can't in fact, it can't 145 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: do anything to harm either the pregnant woman or her fetus. 146 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: So um, yeah, Professor Klein, I just want to jump 147 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: in because, well, how would you answer the question if 148 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: somebody came to you and said, but wait a second, 149 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: we don't yet know if the vaccine has an effect 150 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: on a baby in two three years. Absolutely, I would 151 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: say that there's no evidence from any vaccine ever that 152 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: there are those types of long term effects. But what 153 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: there is ample evidence of is in utero infection during 154 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: pregnan can have long term implications on the baby one 155 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: to five ten years later, even in cases where the 156 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: virus itself is not transmitted to the baby. So I 157 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: think I think pregnant women need to be considerably more 158 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: concerned that the probability of getting inspected in and getting sick, 159 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: very sick, and having to potentially be hospitalized is greater 160 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: if you're not vaccinated. It's greater for pregnant than non 161 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: pregnant women. And the one way to mitigate this is 162 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: by getting vaccinated. All right, some good advice, And I 163 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: want to just mention one thing because I heard somebody 164 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: talking about this to the CDC recommendation that women who 165 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: need mammograms try to get them before vaccination or six 166 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: weeks after a vaccination because of swollen lymph nodes under 167 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: their arm. Like, we are finding out more information so 168 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: that you have an understanding about when to do these things. Again, 169 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: this is I don't want to say it's a Senex experiment, 170 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: but we're watching the research play out in real time 171 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: right now, and each day we do learn more and more, 172 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: but still so many questions, especially when it comes to 173 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: that question that you ask, Carol, to what extent does 174 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: do these vaccines last past six, eight, ten months? Right? Exactly? 175 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: We don't know yet, right because we've done it a 176 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: little bit differently. Dr saber Kline. She's Professor of Molecular 177 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: Microbiology Nammunology at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 178 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: co director of the Center for Women's Health, Sex and 179 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: Gender Research. Great to have her back with us on 180 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: the phone from Baltimore. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 181 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on 182 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. Bloomberg Sarah Fryar. She has been following how 183 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: social networks circulate information for years, and our latest reporting 184 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,319 Speaker 1: in the magazine covers how social networks are exporting disinformation 185 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: about the COVID vaccine, and Tim exporting is the keyword. Yeah, 186 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: it certainly is. Content that's blocked or flagged in the 187 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: US often continues to circulate in other languages. The Joel. 188 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: The question that I have whenever I read a story 189 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: about content moderation and Facebook is these companies are most 190 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: powerful technology companies with the brightest minds. Why can't they 191 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: get this under control? Well, they can, um, and they've 192 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: been cracking down on it. But in the case of 193 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: the story that Um Sarah did, the problem becomes um 194 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,839 Speaker 1: that things get lost in translation, or that more more accurately, 195 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: translations are still getting out there with the mins information. So, so, Sarah, 196 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: can you help us get to the bottom this Why 197 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: does it keep happening. Well, in this case, the global pandemic, 198 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: it's a different situation than we've seen in the past. 199 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: We've had this debate about Facebook and YouTube for years, 200 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: the fact that they really just don't have people who 201 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: understand and can moderate content in all the languages that 202 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: they offer their services in. Their machine learning for finding 203 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: vaccine misinformation and harmful misinformation is only proficient and about 204 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: a dozen languages, and Facebook has offered in more than 205 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: a hundred languages. So just just keep that in mind. Um. 206 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: But the difference with this pandemic is it's it's a 207 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: phenomenon that is global, and the information that is coming 208 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: and circulating globally it has a similar potency to US 209 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: pop culture. Researchers told me, I mean, this is just 210 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: it's what's what we're talking about here. We've had access 211 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: to the vaccines sooner here than they have in other countries, 212 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: and that culture of the debates, the rumors of things 213 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: that have already gone viral and gotten banned or gotten 214 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: labeled in the US on YouTube and Facebook have then 215 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: been translated into other languages and and are having a 216 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: whole other cycle elsewhere and outside of the realm of 217 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: these tools that can can really bring it under control. 218 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: And just for our audience, you recognize her voice. Bloomberg 219 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: News technology reporter and author of No Filter, The Inside 220 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: Story of Instagram, Sarah Friar. She's with us from San Francisco, 221 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: and of course Bloomberg Business we get out or Joe 222 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,599 Speaker 1: Webber right here to a friend that I forgot to 223 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: tell everyone. Sarah, you know, we do have the technology 224 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: available to us, and I believe Skype does it like 225 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: real time translations in many different languages, and it's just 226 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: so hard for me to to understand why if this 227 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: type of machine learning is available, it is still so 228 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: challenging for these companies to get this under control. Well, 229 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: every time something new occurs, you have to train a 230 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: model to find the images that UM that correspond with 231 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: that problem and and understand the local context. Maybe people 232 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: don't call it UM the same. There is a lot 233 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: of colloquialisms around how you describe immunizations. There are a 234 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: lot of UM, a lot of content that that may 235 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: go viral in the US and and may not pop 236 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: up for months elsewhere. And so I think that the 237 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: UM the issue really is one of investment, is the 238 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: fact that these companies have only just started to crack 239 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: down strongly in English, and even then, I don't know 240 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: about you, but I see so many rumors still circulating 241 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: in English. People who are talking about, you know, the 242 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: false notion that that the fiber maderna vaccine can shed 243 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: to others, or cobb in fertility, all of those, all 244 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: those things, those harmful things are still spreading. So the 245 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: English version of this is not proficient. You just need 246 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: to imagine that if you are witnessing this media environment 247 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: in English, that is definitely worth in any other language. 248 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: I thought that was particularly interesting. There's a paragraph in 249 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: the story about Arabic subtitles in particular. Can you tell 250 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: us about that one? And what a review by the 251 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: Institute of Strategic Dialogue found. So, the Institute of the 252 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: Strategic Dialogue found that there were these US originated videos 253 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: of women shaking and convulsing purportedly after getting the shot. Um, 254 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: but they were obviously, you know, lacking in context, and 255 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't verified. And then um they were labeled as 256 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: meeting to be fact checked in the US on Facebook. 257 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: But those same videos exactly the same content, just with 258 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: Arabic subtitles. We're not caught by the same machine learning 259 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: algorithms in in Arab language countries. So so I think 260 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: that this is what we've seen happen over and over, 261 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: is that the US drama occurs and gets evaluated and 262 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: and we saw it also with the even before the 263 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: era of vaccines, we saw with the planned Demic video. 264 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: And if you guys remember that was the highly conspiratorial 265 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: video documentary that you know, went and had millions of 266 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: views on Facebook and YouTube before it was taken down 267 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: finally by the platforms for its harmful impact. And that 268 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: video was circulating in other countries for days, becoming a 269 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: problem before it was addressed in other languages. So what 270 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: do the social media companies, say, Sarah, when it comes 271 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: to basically policing platforms outside the US, It is really 272 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 1: not that transparent. Facebook skills is not disclosed, how many 273 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: moderators it has in a certain language. Um, you know, 274 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 1: any comparative data on how it's work in the US 275 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: compares or in Europe compared to work elsewhere. Um, we 276 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: get bulk statistics from from companies like like Alphabets, Google 277 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: and YouTube, but we do not have any transparency into 278 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 1: the actual effectiveness we are relying on this anecdotal research 279 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,479 Speaker 1: from people who who spend their whole career looking at 280 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: this problem, and they're telling us that this is the 281 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: trend that they're seeing. But Um, but I really think 282 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: that in order to get to the bottom of this, 283 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: we're gonna need a lot more information from these companies 284 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: that have now had had so much control over our 285 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: global information diet Sarah, I know you've spent months reporting 286 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: on misinformation when it comes to vaccines on these platforms, 287 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: in years reporting on these platforms, and in the research 288 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: for your book. UM, give us the motivation for people 289 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: who do spread this disinformation in just the lass thirty 290 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: seconds that we have with you. It is about being 291 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: a personality on the internet, about getting that engagement, and 292 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: in some cases about making money. I mean, the people 293 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: who are telling you that vaccines are are scary and 294 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: possibly harmful, they're also trying to sell you alternatives. They're saying, 295 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: by my supplements instead, or you know, come to my 296 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: mindfulness retreat instead, UM, listen to my podcast. And so 297 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: I think there is a commercial aspect, there is an 298 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: ego aspect to this, and there are some people who 299 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: really have fallen down the rabbit hole and believe it 300 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,680 Speaker 1: and are trying to to keep each other's safe. And 301 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: those are the people that we need to make sure 302 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: get the right information. Well, great continuing coverage, Sarah, Thank 303 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: you so much, Bloomberg News technology reporter, author of No Filter, 304 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: the inside story of Instagram. Sarah Fire on the phone 305 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 1: in San Francisco. Are thanks to Bloomberg Business we get 306 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: out to Jill Weber in our Interactive broker's studio. You're 307 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 308 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. This is I'm 309 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: just checking. It's our most red story in the Bloomberg 310 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: in the past eight hours. It's about Morgan Stanley, now 311 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: the latest big US bank to shake up its leadership. 312 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: So here with this scoop is Bloomberg News Finance reporter 313 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: Street n Uragan. He's in our Interactive Brokers studio. So 314 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: you know where I want to go. I'm looking at 315 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: the visual. I know everybody's saying it. So four white 316 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: guys and Goodwind on radio and good thing. We're on radio, 317 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 1: but on YouTube. I don't know if everybody can see this. Wait, 318 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna low. It's all over Twitter here it is, Yeah, 319 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: it's all over Twitter. Um, did James Gorman not get 320 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: the memo? Look, I think, to be completely fair, Morgan 321 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: Stanley would probably tell you that this is a moment 322 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 1: in Times snapshot, even before diversity was a buzzword on 323 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: Wall Street. This is a firm that had Ruth poor 324 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: At as it's CFO six years ago. She left and 325 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: went to Google and rose higher there, and then there 326 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: was Zoe Cruise before the financial crisis around around that 327 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: time two thousand seven two, when she was the co 328 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: president of the firm. So Morgan Stanley has had women 329 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: in senior leadership roles because it's a separate question why 330 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: they have not been able to climb to the highest rank. 331 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: But it would not be totally fair to say that 332 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley stands out different from every other bank. But 333 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: at a time that we are in right now where 334 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: you're seeing succession planning everywhere, and you know, when the 335 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: senior leaders are thinking about and the heels of JP 336 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: Morgan what the future looks like, it does it does 337 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: strike a bit of a discordant note. But if you're 338 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: CEO S sixty two and the next generation is in 339 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: the mid fifties. You still have a Wall Street that 340 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: is populated with you know, old white men in that 341 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: racket who have that experience, who have rose through the ranks, 342 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: who have got that divisional experience across the board. The 343 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: real pipeline, and it is coming up elsewhere, perhaps not 344 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: as fast as it should be, but the real pipeline 345 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 1: is probably in the late thirties, in the early forties, 346 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: mid forties generation, and that crew is still a while 347 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: away from getting the top perch at any major institution. Yeah, 348 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: the new co presidents are are ted. Pick is fifty 349 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: two Andy sapristein who are these people and who is 350 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: this quartet? Well, that Pick is, of course, uh, you know, 351 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: seen as the turnaround artists at Morgan Stanley. He started 352 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: his career out as a e c M banker equity 353 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: capital markets. He out with the ip of Google, he 354 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: helped with the IP of Blackstone. But then of course 355 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: his real climb at Morgan Stanley is considered with what 356 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: he did post crisis, and the crisis was a really 357 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: difficult time for Morgan Standay like most other banks, but 358 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: for Morgan Stanley in particular. But post crisis he helped 359 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: rebuild the trading division, the equities group. He took it 360 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,200 Speaker 1: to the dominant player, to the number one standing on 361 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: Wall Street. Then he was tasked with repairing their fixed 362 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: income division, which really was, you know, to be completely blunt, 363 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: a train wreck, and he took some hard steps there, 364 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: and hard steps in Wall Street means a big number 365 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: of job cuts. But since then it does seem to 366 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: have rebounded. The trading group has done really well. And 367 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: then he was given oversight of its traders and dealmaker's 368 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: head of the Corporate Investment Bank. So it made sense 369 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: for him to be rising to the position of a 370 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: president because the c IB is about fifty of the 371 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: firm's revenue. The other half of the majority of the 372 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: other half comes from wealth management, and the Sapperstein has 373 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: helped Bill Morgan Stanley into this wealth management powerhouse, and 374 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: that has been carried out really in the course of 375 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: the last ten years. You think about the Smith Barney 376 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: acquisition in two thousand ten, from there all the way 377 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: through to the e Trade purchase last here, which was 378 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: a Jumboard deal. The biggest bank deal in over a 379 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: decade or probably even since the Smith Barney deal again 380 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: was carried out by Morgan Stanley, and that has shifted 381 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 1: the center of gravity at the film. It really has 382 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: his balance of you know, they have the standing among 383 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: the elites of investment banking as well as such a 384 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: big operation intending to customers his money. Concidal living anytime 385 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: seeing that it doesn't sound like he's keen on leaving 386 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: anytime soon. Our understanding he's already told the board, the 387 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: scenior management that he wants to stick around for at 388 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: least three more years. And who can blame him? This 389 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: is the best performing major US banks talk in the 390 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: last five years. And the wind going is this good? 391 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: Would you really want to walk off into the sunset? 392 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: So what happens now is these these four individuals and 393 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: as as you write, the shuffle thrust the quartet into 394 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: a public bake off to succeed Gorman. What happens now, 395 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: well I did speak with Gorman and he said it 396 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: gives them time to spread their wings. So it really 397 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: is going to play off as a bike off. You 398 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: have these four people right now and these would be 399 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: seen as the leading contenders. But that's now, that's six 400 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: months from today, that's nine months from today. Three years 401 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: is a long time on Wall Street, her stock at 402 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: record high, your businesses that are firing on all cylinders, 403 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: something might go wrong. Other contenders might come about the 404 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: bye side is of Washington liquidity. Some of these people 405 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: might get pushed away too much. Higher paying jobs are 406 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: a very different jobs. So just because these four other 407 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: leading contenders right now doesn't necessarily mean this is how 408 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: it will look three or four or five years from today. 409 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: In the meantime, do they do anything there to increase 410 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, the amount of women in terms of leadership, 411 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: you know the pipeline here and just got about twenty 412 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: seconds here. I think they will tell you that they 413 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: are doing everything that they can and to boost that bipline. 414 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: They will tell you they have a number of senior women. 415 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: Susie Huang, who's the cohead of their investment bank, is 416 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: one of the most senior Asian women across Wall Street, 417 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: and they are trying to promote other women as well. 418 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: But when we see the big headlines like this, when 419 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: we see the contenders, it does send out a message 420 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: that maybe they would should have thought of the creative 421 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: solution when it comes to thinking about successes, just a 422 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: little diversity, little diversity check out that story at Bloomberg 423 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: dot com if you want to see the picture to 424 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,920 Speaker 1: gain an idea of what we're talking about. Trinadaraj And 425 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: broke this story. He got the scoop financial Bloomberg News 426 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: in our Interactor Broker studio, Marc a journal. Yeah, but 427 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: you let me drive, No, no, no, night, please out 428 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: of the riding vel. I want to drive. Just drives 429 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: the questions. Your job. This is the drive to the globe. 430 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: Thanks well, try us on Bloomberg Radio. All right, just 431 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: about ten minutes left in today's trading session, so let's 432 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: get to it in his time for the drive to 433 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: the close. Back with us is margat Bittel. She is 434 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: senior portfolio manager at Wells Fargo Asset Management, billion dollars 435 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: in assets under management. Market back with us on the 436 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: phone from Boston. So market, It's been an interesting week, 437 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: an interesting couple of weeks. Whether it was inflation news 438 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: that sometimes made investors a little bit nervous, certainly in 439 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: the equity markets, and then sometimes not. You know, we're 440 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: watching the crypto markets, which fell out of bed yesterday, 441 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: bounced back and they're bouncing back some more today. How 442 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: do you make sense of what really matters fundamentally to 443 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: the equity trade. Well, I think what the market is 444 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: looking at most of all is the sense policy on 445 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: interest rates. Uh, that's what's really I think relief that 446 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: from the FED minutes that the FED is nowhere near 447 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: thinking about raising rates because of inflation helped to draw 448 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: the tech sector which was over sold anyway. And I 449 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: think the market is really looking for large themes and 450 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: narratives at this point. But that that's the most important 451 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: thing is is their inflation is a feed very tighten 452 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: and I think a review of their minutes and that 453 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: isn't the case. So the market is having a little 454 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: bit of a relief rarely here. But I guess the 455 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: question is is what changes the Fed's mind? What what? 456 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: What are the inflation numbers that makes people and the 457 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: FED start to think differently about their targets for raising rates. Well, 458 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: I think that's the problem is because the Fed has 459 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,959 Speaker 1: not made that clear. Whether that's deliberate or they'll strew 460 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 1: up deciding among themselves what the signals would be. Uh, 461 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: But basically they haven't made clear what exactly be a 462 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: trigger point to change and begin to draw liquidity out. 463 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: And also the Feed is talks about inflation, but the 464 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: definition of inflation and the numbers that they look at 465 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: is inflation is not necessarily with the markets looking at 466 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: with consumers, with businesses looking at for their price increases. 467 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: So I think it's a little bit of confusion of well, 468 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: exactly what is the inflation rate that people should look 469 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: at to try to figure out what the FED would 470 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: would be sensitive to moving And so there's a lot 471 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: of uncertainty, and so I think people are just really 472 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: trying to get a grip on what will make the 473 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: FED react market will look. I'm a little confused that 474 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,239 Speaker 1: because those Fed minutes came out Him and I were 475 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: on air, and you did see equities take a little 476 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: bit of a of a dive on the FED minutes, 477 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 1: especially because the FED was talking a little bit about 478 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: acid prices and some concerns um and seeming to that 479 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: there are members of FED starting to consider maybe talking 480 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: about kind of what was the next move for the FED, 481 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: and we did see rates go up. So how do 482 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: you see today being a relief rally off of that? 483 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: Did you think there was a rethink a little bit 484 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: after that initial reaction to the FED minutes yesterday? Yes, 485 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: because I think people are trying to parce out what 486 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: will be the FEDS reaction to what specifically, and that 487 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: isn't very clear. Uh. It's just we need to take 488 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: the FEDS pulse to figure out what they're looking at 489 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: and how close they are. And that's what the market 490 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: was doing yesterday. Today the market feels a little relieved. Um. 491 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: And so I think that I personally think it will 492 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: be a long time before we see the FED do 493 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: anything in the way of titan need to try to 494 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: race rate. What do you mean that long time? Uh, 495 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: certainly for the rest of this year, well intil next year, 496 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: the rest of this year, well into next year. So 497 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: is that something that with you when you see these, 498 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: when you know the text off a few weeks ago. 499 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: Is that something that you think is a widely held belief? Uh? No, 500 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: I think people are really trying to figure out what 501 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: they can match onto because we've never had a recession 502 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: like this COVID recession. It hasn't been driven by economic conditions. Uh. 503 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: The FED has a monetary policy that we've never seen before. 504 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: And also the set is saying, UM, watch for our reaction, 505 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: as opposed to saying these are the data that we're 506 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: looking for that will be our trigger. So the market 507 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: is sort of flailing around saying, well, what inflation numbers 508 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: have been looking at? Uh, certainly in the real world 509 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: we're seeing that, but the fit isn't reacting to it. 510 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: So and then I think that keys into the biggest sector, 511 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: which is a tech sector that's been the most overvalued 512 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: performance wise, and so it's the most sensitive at any 513 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: time we see any any wobbly in what the ten 514 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: years doing that makes weakness in tech. They ten years 515 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: rallied text up, especially text have been I think gotten 516 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: pretty oversold here over the short term. Worrying about interest rates, Well, 517 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: how do you think investor should think about tech specifically? 518 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: Should you even be thinking short term or do we 519 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: no longer term? Especially some of those big momentum players 520 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: that they're going to be around for a while. That's 521 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 1: where we're still going to go see some growth. That's 522 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: what we're gonna still see some momentum. And it makes 523 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,959 Speaker 1: sense fundamentally. Yes, I think that those companies, the high quality, 524 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: proven growers, are going to continue to be above average 525 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: performers over the next few years um. But still we 526 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: have a lot of short term trading nervous money that's 527 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: come out of check and when they come out of 528 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: chech they come out of the small, risky names and 529 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: the big names too. So I think you're just seeing 530 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: a little bit of market volatility. So we're trying to 531 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: look through that and not really time to trade the 532 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: tech sector based on the short term moves, but just 533 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: a long term we think we'll still see higher growth 534 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: out of that sector than most other market sectors, so 535 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: we still like the sector a lot. What are your 536 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: thoughts on cryptocurrency? Yesterday we saw quite the decline, with 537 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: bitcoin more than before making up much of that, and 538 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: bitcoin at last check trading higher on the day today. Um, 539 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: what are clients asking you about bit quinn and how 540 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: are you feeling about it? Uh, we're not seeing many 541 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: questions on that. It's because our clients are really broken advised, 542 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: so when they get nervous about that sort of thing, 543 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: they talked to their advisor. He calms them down and 544 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: then they feel feel better about the world. We think 545 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: it's it's a speculative development and it doesn't give you 546 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: the information say that if you look at the price 547 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: of gold might give you about market sentiment and risk 548 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 1: and so forth. That's any more questions about it that 549 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: is interesting. I mean, I don't know, how do you 550 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: think about you you know, have seen a lot of 551 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: different cycles, a lot of funky new wave investments, whether 552 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: it was high yield junk bonds way back when that 553 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: have now become kind of a norm normal part of 554 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: an investors portfolio. How do you think about digital currencies? Well, 555 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: I think it's mostly um market, that participants are short 556 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: term traders, opportunistic investors, short term and maybe new people 557 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: to trading. So it seems very exciting and new and fresh, 558 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: and that's how we always learned and until the market. 559 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: This is a good lesson about fundamentals. So I think 560 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: it's it's just really reflecting liquidity, a surge of new investors, 561 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: something that seems on the surface very exciting and new 562 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: and techie, and but not much to do with fundamentals 563 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: or relative value of currencies for example, or anything about inflation. 564 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: It's just too volal. I should say, Bitcoin pair gains 565 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: as the Treasury seeks a tough and tax compliance, but 566 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: now is back above so up another eighteen hundred dollars today. Yeah, 567 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: we've seen we've seen really, really dramatic moves. One quick 568 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: last point twenty seconds here, Margie, Um, what do you 569 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: want to avoid in this environment? We think that some 570 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: of the smaller tech names are still a little vulnerable 571 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: here because we still seek some money coming out of 572 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: those sectors. And we think some of the economically sensitive 573 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: sectors who have gotten way ahead of themselves with market 574 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: enthusiasm on the rebaild, we think they're going to be 575 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: kind of dead money for the next six months. All right, 576 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: Good to know, Good to check in with you. Market Patel, 577 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: Senior portfolio manager at Wells Fargo Asset Management, five billion 578 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: dollars in assets under management, joining us on the phone 579 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: from Boston. Thanks for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download 580 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com, and 581 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: you can also listen to our radio show at two 582 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube 583 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: search Bloomberg Global News