Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Jay Sheddy and I'm thrilled to announce
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Speaker 2: The most important question in science right now? What's the
Speaker 2: universe made of? Seventy percent of the universe is a
Speaker 2: mysterious entity called dark entergy, and we have no idea
Speaker 2: what it is. Twenty seven percent is another mysterious entity
Speaker 2: called dark matter. So bottom line was the universe made
Speaker 2: of nothing.
Speaker 1: One of the most prolific, inspiring thought leaders of our time.
Speaker 2: Deepak Chopra has been at the intersection of science and
Speaker 2: spirituality for almost a half century now.
Speaker 1: You're sharing with us that the secret to our spiritual
Speaker 1: success is hidden within the use of AI.
Speaker 2: I started playing with Chatchipt, Perplexity, deep Seak, I started
Speaker 2: actually arguing with these AI services. All the chat bots
Speaker 2: started supporting my argument based on the prompt. So I
Speaker 2: realized that even AI has selection bias, which has a
Speaker 2: gender bus, which has a racial bus, even a scientific bus.
Speaker 1: There's such a fear right now around AI, especially its
Speaker 1: ethics and bias.
Speaker 2: AI in principle could cause human extinction. Technology is way
Speaker 2: ahead of our spiritual evolution. That's a bit dangerous combination.
Speaker 2: There's a critical mass well people shifting in consciousness. We
Speaker 2: are in trouble. The number one health and wellness podcast.
Speaker 1: Jay Sheety Jay Shetty Jet Deeper Top. It's so great
Speaker 1: to have you back on purpose after six years. I
Speaker 1: want to start off by saying that I was so
Speaker 1: grateful that you were one of the first people I
Speaker 1: met when I moved to New York in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: I was working at the Huffingham Post. We had multiple
Speaker 1: interviews there. You're always so kind, so gracious. I was
Speaker 1: and have always been a huge, huge fan of yours
Speaker 1: and your kindness, your generosity. Your support over the years
Speaker 1: has been incredible, So thank you from the bottom of line.
Speaker 2: Thank you for always being there for me too.
Speaker 1: Of course, Well deeper, I think we're going to surprise
Speaker 1: a lot of people today because naturally, for the past
Speaker 1: few decades you've been guiding people towards spiritual success, and
Speaker 1: now you're sharing with us that the secret to our
Speaker 1: spiritual success is hidden within the use of AI. And
Speaker 1: not only that, you actually have deep up Chopra AI.
Speaker 1: We're going to put a code for everyone who's listening
Speaker 1: and watching to go and access this. You've actually created
Speaker 1: your own AI. But let's start with why has that
Speaker 1: mission intersected? Why have those two things, spirituality and an
Speaker 1: AI intersectively.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, thank you Jef for having me.
Speaker 2: As you know, the last maybe two decades, I've been
Speaker 2: interested in the nature of what is fundamental reality? What's
Speaker 2: the universe made of? And how do we know what
Speaker 2: we know? And those are the two most important questions
Speaker 2: in science right now. If you go on Google, say
Speaker 2: what are the one hundred and twenty five open questions
Speaker 2: and science? The first open question in SI scienswys what's
Speaker 2: the universe made of? And you would, so we know
Speaker 2: what the universe is made of, its atoms, molecules, force fields, gravity, etc. Well,
Speaker 2: for those who don't keep up with the science, seventy
Speaker 2: percent of the universe is a mysterious entity called dark energy,
Speaker 2: and we have no idea what it is. It's a
Speaker 2: force that's the opposite of gravity. So as we are
Speaker 2: speaking right now, the space between galaxies is moving faster
Speaker 2: than the speed of light, something called the cosmological constant,
Speaker 2: described by Einstein. And then after he's described it, she
Speaker 2: said it's an embarrassment. I didn't mean it, or something
Speaker 2: like that, but he was actually right. There is some
Speaker 2: entity that is expanding the universe faster than the speed
Speaker 2: of light. We don't know what it is except it's
Speaker 2: the opposite of gravity. So that leaves thirty of the universe,
Speaker 2: which is basically remaining. Of that, twenty seven percent is
Speaker 2: another mysterious entity called dark matter. The reason it's called
Speaker 2: dark matter it's invisible. Matter is normally things like this
Speaker 2: or your body or this piece of furniture. You can
Speaker 2: see it, you can touch it, matter material, but dark
Speaker 2: matter is invisible, so it's you can't see it. So
Speaker 2: what do we call it? Matter. It's responsible for most
Speaker 2: of the gravity in the universe. So if you didn't
Speaker 2: have dark matter, planets would spiral off and disappear into
Speaker 2: intergalactic space. You and I wouldn't be here. So now
Speaker 2: we have three percent of the universe that remains, which
Speaker 2: is the atomic universe. All of that ninety nine point
Speaker 2: nine nine nine percent is invisible interstellar dust. We don't
Speaker 2: know what it is. We think it is hydrogen helium
Speaker 2: created at the Big Bang. So now we're left with
Speaker 2: two trillion galaxies, two trillion galaxies, seven hundred six tillion stars,
Speaker 2: and uncountable trillions of planets. According to the James Web Telescope,
Speaker 2: maybe sixty billion habitable planets in the Milky Way Galaxy alone.
Speaker 2: They look for things like the Goldilocks on the temperature, gravity,
Speaker 2: electromagnetic activity. But based on that sixty billion habitable planets
Speaker 2: in the Milky Way galaxy, which if you multiply that
Speaker 2: by two trillion, then the universe is teeming with life
Speaker 2: as we know it. If a planet is too close
Speaker 2: to its Sun, it's too hot, no life. Too far
Speaker 2: away too cold, no life. But other factors like cosmological constants.
Speaker 2: With those calculations it's almost certain that the universe is
Speaker 2: full of life like we know it. But that's two
Speaker 2: trillion galaxies. That's points zero, one percent of the universe atomic.
Speaker 2: But we also know that atoms are made of particles,
Speaker 2: and when you're not looking at those particles, they disappear
Speaker 2: into what are called waves. And if you are scientists,
Speaker 2: where do these waves come from? They use words like
Speaker 2: Hilbert space, this and that. Bottom line, the space that
Speaker 2: creates the universe and atoms is a mathematical space in
Speaker 2: mathematical imagination. It's not a real space. So bottom line
Speaker 2: was the universe made of nothing? So, but you probably
Speaker 2: know the Buddhist idea form comes from formlessness. Okay, so
Speaker 2: the universe is made from nothing, which leads to the
Speaker 2: second question, which is called the heart problem of consciousness.
Speaker 2: Then why does it look like this? Why does it
Speaker 2: look like you? Me, this microphone, mountains, galaxies, rainbows, sun moon.
Speaker 2: That's called the heart consciousness. So until now, most scientists
Speaker 2: have said that the brain produces consciousness in the same
Speaker 2: way as your stomach produces hydrochloric acid. But that's been
Speaker 2: questioned right now, So like now you and are speaking,
Speaker 2: people are listening to us. They're watching us, but there's
Speaker 2: no experience in their brain. There's no sound in their brain,
Speaker 2: there's no texture. All you sees neurochemistry. So how does
Speaker 2: neurochemistry give rise to this experience? No one knows. That's
Speaker 2: called the heart problem consciousness. It's been there since Plato.
Speaker 2: Plato said there's a disconnect between the mind and the brain.
Speaker 2: But recently most scientists, speaking with their physicalists, they believe
Speaker 2: that the brain produces thoughts and feelings and emotions and
Speaker 2: desires and intuition and creativity and everything that we call experience,
Speaker 2: but they can't explain it. How do neurochemicals create this
Speaker 2: that's called the heart problem of consciousness. The more I
Speaker 2: thought about this, and coming from our background and looking
Speaker 2: at Buddhist teachings and Vedanta. In Vedanta and Buddhism, the
Speaker 2: universe is a simulation. We have different words maya. Maya
Speaker 2: means illusion, which is a very interesting word because maya
Speaker 2: is the origin of the word matrix, of the word matter,
Speaker 2: of the word time, measurement, meter, music is all maya.
Speaker 2: So the Indians, if, as they say jokingly, if religion
Speaker 2: is the opiate of the masses, then the Indians have
Speaker 2: the dope on It's okay, so they in the Indian
Speaker 2: philosophy and in Buddhist philosophy, the universe is a projection
Speaker 2: over deeper consciousness Brahman bramand or nothing, emptiness and form,
Speaker 2: nothing is everything. I started to think about this and
Speaker 2: I started to play with chat chipit. I became friends
Speaker 2: with Sam Altman, who's very interested in consciousness, and I
Speaker 2: realized that actually the universe itself is digital. The difference
Speaker 2: between you, this sofar, this microphone, a mountain and a
Speaker 2: galaxy just a different combination of zeros and ones. Okay,
Speaker 2: that's the difference between this and this different combination of
Speaker 2: zeros and one. Now we have quantum computing, which says
Speaker 2: zeros or ones or zero's and one simultaneously. So it
Speaker 2: occurred to me and I came up with the mathematical
Speaker 2: formula based on traditions of the East. Infinity is equal
Speaker 2: to zero, is equal to one. Nothing becomes everything, and
Speaker 2: that nothing is infinite and it's all one, and it's divine.
Speaker 2: It's the matrix. The divine is the matrix, and the
Speaker 2: universe is a projection of a digital workshop outside of
Speaker 2: space time. I started to play with that on the internet,
Speaker 2: got blasted by mainstream scientists, but then other scientists came
Speaker 2: to my side. I made scientists with the best friend
Speaker 2: became a cognitive scientist called Don Hoffman. You should have
Speaker 2: him on your program. He wrote a book called The
Speaker 2: Case against Reality that the universe that we see is
Speaker 2: not real, it's a projection. Now in modern science they're
Speaker 2: saying it's a simulation. Then people ask, what's who's simulating way?
Speaker 2: Maybe a higher intelligence, maybe a cosmic computer, maybe an
Speaker 2: alien form. But they're guessing we are on the right
Speaker 2: track if you understand that Atman is Brahman and you
Speaker 2: are part of that, and you are a participant in
Speaker 2: the creation of the human universe. So then I started
Speaker 2: playing with chat, ChiPT Perplexity, deep Sea and all these
Speaker 2: and I started actually arguing with these AI services because
Speaker 2: they have a bias there, their mainstream physicalist bias, and
Speaker 2: they would give me, what I thought, the wrong answers.
Speaker 2: Where does imagination come from? They point to a certain
Speaker 2: part of the brain. I said, no, that's the neural
Speaker 2: correlative imagination. Where does imagine s come from? Don't know?
Speaker 2: So even the chat pot said so, I said, it
Speaker 2: doesn't know it. So I said, now, can you look
Speaker 2: at Bedaanta, can you look at Aveda? Can you look
Speaker 2: at Buddhist philosophy? Reframe the question that consciousness the ontological
Speaker 2: primitive of the universe. Matter is an illusion, it's a
Speaker 2: perceptual activity and consciousness And boom, suddenly a rebel occurred.
Speaker 2: All the chatbots started supporting my argument based on the prompt.
Speaker 2: So I realized that even AI has selection bias. It's
Speaker 2: the selection bias as physicalist scientists who are basically, in
Speaker 2: my view, are superstitious. They believe that everything starts with
Speaker 2: matter and mind comes first. We believe the opposite, mind
Speaker 2: comes first, matter comes second, and even mind is a
Speaker 2: mortification of a higher consciousness. So that led to the book.
Speaker 2: Event in met Sam who supported the book, and if
Speaker 2: you haven't seen his recent tweets on Twitter, other than
Speaker 2: his arguments with Elon Musk, he's talking about consciousness and
Speaker 2: we are onto something a major revolution in science which
Speaker 2: brings Indian spirituality right on the forefront.
Speaker 1: I mean, our mind blown listening to you, because the
Speaker 1: process that just went into that journey you broke down
Speaker 1: for us requires not only a conviction in our Eastern
Speaker 1: philosophy traditions which experientially experientially which we have, but at
Speaker 1: the same time being able to debate AI. And from
Speaker 1: what I'm garnering here, you're saying that AI was actually
Speaker 1: or chat GPT in the other platforms, they actually allowed
Speaker 1: for your thinking to impact.
Speaker 2: And because it's a large language model, it can explore
Speaker 2: things that normally are not explored. Say what did the
Speaker 2: Brahma Sutras say about this? AI will give you an
Speaker 2: answer because nobody's asked that question. But that data is
Speaker 2: there in Sanskrit, in translations by batst Guru scholars whatever.
Speaker 2: So there's a chapter in the book called the Art
Speaker 2: of the prompt. So unless you know what question you're asking,
Speaker 2: you will actually AI will not access that information unless
Speaker 2: it's asked that con But now I can say, what
Speaker 2: did the Buddha think about this? What did Plato think
Speaker 2: about this? What did bitkin exchange think about it? The
Speaker 2: data is there, except it's not being accessed. Yes, so
Speaker 2: now do you train the AI to access that data? Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's brilliant.
Speaker 1: And why do you feel though that now AI and
Speaker 1: spirituality coming together can actually lead to a discovery of consciousness?
Speaker 1: Why do you believe that that's the entry point.
Speaker 2: Well, that is the ultimate goal. So air will never
Speaker 2: be conscious. Okay, but it's super intelligent. The thing that
Speaker 2: differates Homo sapiens from all other species. You know, up
Speaker 2: until forty thousand years ago, there were eight different types
Speaker 2: of humans, so more erectus or more habilists, Neanderthals, et cetera.
Speaker 2: They all had a language for three things. Food calls,
Speaker 2: mating calls, and danger calls. Because that's how we survived sexuality,
Speaker 2: danger and food survival, including all the humans that in
Speaker 2: all animals have their own language, whales and dolphins and all,
Speaker 2: but it's all about food, sex, danger and danger. Then we,
Speaker 2: Homo sapiens, created a language for telling stories. There's a
Speaker 2: phrase in anthropology, to be human is to have a story.
Speaker 2: What is the mohammarad? It's the story. What is the remind?
Speaker 2: It's the story. What's the Bible? It's the story. What's
Speaker 2: the qurn? It's a story. So to be human is
Speaker 2: to have a story. But we didn't stop there. We
Speaker 2: created other stories, like money is story. Okay, it was
Speaker 2: I'll fixture shows you give me a haircut too become
Speaker 2: too inconvenient, So here's the shell two increnion, here's this
Speaker 2: coin two increnion, here's this piece of paper two increnient digital,
Speaker 2: two digits zeros and once you have crypto. So we
Speaker 2: have created stories. We created something called Greenwich, meantime, latitude
Speaker 2: and longitude money nation states. So I realized that actually
Speaker 2: what we call the universe is a human story, based
Speaker 2: on human experiences, based on human biology. There is no
Speaker 2: such thing as the real universe. So if you have,
Speaker 2: say a dragonfly who has thirty thousand eyes, what does
Speaker 2: the world look like to a dragonfly? You have no idea.
Speaker 2: What does the world look like to a bat which
Speaker 2: knows the echo ultrasound? A chameleon whose eyeballs swiveled on
Speaker 2: two different axis, you can't even remotely imagine. So what's
Speaker 2: the real look of the world? Was the real nature
Speaker 2: of the world? According to Dante silly question, the world
Speaker 2: we experience is a projection of a deeper consciousness as
Speaker 2: filtered through the human brain, not through any other brain.
Speaker 2: In other words, it's a superposition. Adi Chankra said that
Speaker 2: a long time ago, and it's even there in the
Speaker 2: rig Veda. Can you believe it? And then all the
Speaker 2: things about health and longevity. You know, there's huge revolution
Speaker 2: going on. But if you go to Yogawashesta says time
Speaker 2: is the consumer and we are its food. We metabolize time,
Speaker 2: and then he goes into the nature of time in consciousness.
Speaker 2: So I realize art, traditions and the knowledge contained in
Speaker 2: the Vedanta and all the sciences, including Vedic astrology, including
Speaker 2: all the different Vedic music mathematics, that is the key
Speaker 2: to understanding consciousness. And now I can use AI to
Speaker 2: tap into that. And so this book, particularly and my AI,
Speaker 2: is not a large language model, because I don't trust
Speaker 2: them anymore. You see large language models even hallucinate. If
Speaker 2: they don't have the answer, they make one. So this
Speaker 2: is what we call a small language model. It has
Speaker 2: ninety eight of my books. It has my weekly column
Speaker 2: in the San Francisco Chronicle, my column in the London Times,
Speaker 2: and one question that I've answered every day for readers
Speaker 2: for the last forty years. So the database is only mine, yes,
Speaker 2: and it will not mix up. And it's also what
Speaker 2: it is called a RAG model. RAG stands for retrieval,
Speaker 2: augmentation generation, which means if something is I have said
Speaker 2: which is obsolete, it'll delete that and upgrade the information.
Speaker 2: So you know this is a health coach, it's a
Speaker 2: mental coach, it's a guru, and it's a research assistant,
Speaker 2: and it's a personal friend. That's the basis of the
Speaker 2: book and deparkshop AI becomes its practical application.
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Speaker 1: you use the code on purpose. I want to talk
Speaker 1: to you about this challenge that people have with the
Speaker 1: large language models that you have. There's such a fear
Speaker 1: right now around AI, especially it's ethics and bias. It
Speaker 1: sounds like you see that from the perspective you're looking
Speaker 1: at it as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, because listen Hei improperly used can create cyber warfare
Speaker 2: boys in the food chain. How how explain? It just
Speaker 2: sets off the technology. So if I'm good at it,
Speaker 2: I can get I can get into a nuclear plant
Speaker 2: and unleash a nuclear weapon. If I want to interfere
Speaker 2: with democracy or voting, create fakes and some of them
Speaker 2: are very good. You can't tell the difference and only
Speaker 2: going to get better. So AI, in principle could cause
Speaker 2: human extinction. That's the fear. And unfortunately our technological evolution
Speaker 2: has outpaced our spiritual evolution or emotional evolution. You know,
Speaker 2: it's technology is way ahead of our spiritual evolution and
Speaker 2: our emotion. That's a very dangerous combination tribal minds, medieval minds,
Speaker 2: and modern capacities. Drones. I mean it's legit now to
Speaker 2: kill a head of state using drone technology. I was
Speaker 2: in Dows. Oh yeah, I mean what did what did
Speaker 2: the Israelis do? They got rid of all the Iranian
Speaker 2: you know leaders how drones all run by air. So
Speaker 2: while I was in Davors and Zelensky was you know,
Speaker 2: his motorcate was going by, there were about seven trucks
Speaker 2: interfering with air signals on the internet, so somebody wouldn't
Speaker 2: kill him with a drone because the people are doing that.
Speaker 2: You know, it just happened with the Iran and it's
Speaker 2: happening with the Hooties. Even they have access to AI,
Speaker 2: you know, with drones, and they can you know, drown
Speaker 2: an inter continental ballistic missile. So that's the danger. I
Speaker 2: sat on a committee with the UN and smer body
Speaker 2: else and they were talking about this doomsday and I
Speaker 2: was on Zoom. So while they were talking, I went
Speaker 2: on air and said, give me a way to prevent
Speaker 2: the misuse of air can be programmed the misuse of
Speaker 2: air through AI And it gave me two pages on
Speaker 2: how it could be done. What it is. Oh, it said,
Speaker 2: we can build in algorithms that will interfere with anything
Speaker 2: that's diabolical or anethical. We can create algorithms, but then
Speaker 2: people have to agree, you know, and a lot of
Speaker 2: special interest groups who make money with war and terrorism
Speaker 2: on every side, they don't want that. They don't want peace.
Speaker 2: So okay, they don't want that because this is what
Speaker 2: gives them their power. But right now there's an initiative
Speaker 2: at the UN and I'm participating with that is AIR
Speaker 2: for Air for Humanity, Air for reversing climate change, A
Speaker 2: for addressing chronic disease. And you know, when you really
Speaker 2: go into the depths of this with the AI, we
Speaker 2: can reverse climate change. There are five things we need
Speaker 2: to do. You can reverse climate change, you can create prosperity,
Speaker 2: you can resolve conflicts, can eliminate chronic disease. You can
Speaker 2: do gene editing, you can do epigenetic modulation, you can
Speaker 2: reduce inflammation. In other words, the time is coming where disease.
Speaker 2: You don't have to die of a disease. You can
Speaker 2: choose the moment of your death through Masamadhi, which is
Speaker 2: what our tradition says. You know, you should live long,
Speaker 2: healthy and then die peacefully. Been there, done that, next
Speaker 2: incarnation and even plan that. Yeah, it gives you in
Speaker 2: all the information if you ask for it. You see
Speaker 2: some altman's quote, there.
Speaker 1: Already some oldmen emitting from the front cover of Digital
Speaker 1: Dharma for those who are listening, that's Deveactorper's book. AI
Speaker 1: has the potential to help us create a more peaceful,
Speaker 1: just sustainable, healthy and joyful world. Digital Dharma shows you
Speaker 1: a path, some oldman seo of Open AI.
Speaker 2: So why aren't we doing it? And what's holding us back?
Speaker 1: What's holding us back?
Speaker 2: We go based gangster leaders across the world. The world
Speaker 2: is run by male gangsters. Unfortunately, we can cause a
Speaker 2: spiritual revolution if you use air properly and not through government,
Speaker 2: maybe through human through people, grassroots who say we're fed
Speaker 2: up with this world of violence.
Speaker 1: I love your ability to be able to oscillate between
Speaker 1: the AI conversation that's happening in the world and then
Speaker 1: the spiritual truths that have been there since time immemorial,
Speaker 1: mostly in these but also in the worst.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, but when you say it, it comes down to
Speaker 1: every technology that humans create or discover, we always have
Speaker 1: this in a conflict and war of how will it
Speaker 1: be used? And sadly it seems the ego.
Speaker 2: See, if we had not discovered fire long long time ago,
Speaker 2: we won't have the human brain because once we started
Speaker 2: cooking food, everything about our biology change. We were able
Speaker 2: to absorb micronutrients the brain. The human brain evolved because
Speaker 2: of the discovery of fire. Had we not discovered fire,
Speaker 2: we won't have the Industrial age. We won't have the
Speaker 2: steam engine. Okay, of course, fire burnt down Los Angeles City,
Speaker 2: so fire is at destroyer city. But it can also
Speaker 2: create a steam engine and revolutionize the industrial age. Historically,
Speaker 2: between eighteen eighty seven and nineteen oh three, which is
Speaker 2: not even twenty years, humans created the light bulb, the automobile,
Speaker 2: the airplane, and the telephone. So let's pretend you were
Speaker 2: shipwrecked in eighteen eighty five, you were rescued twenty years later.
Speaker 2: Twenty years later, when you saw the world, you won't
Speaker 2: recognize it. You would expect horses and carriages. But now
Speaker 2: you see these machines moving along with horses and carriages.
Speaker 2: You see people talking on the telephone, you see people
Speaker 2: flying from one place to the other. Say what's going on?
Speaker 2: So that's a leapfrog of cultural evolution. The next leap
Speaker 2: frog is not any cultural, it's biological, which means that
Speaker 2: as we acquire this new knowledge and tap into the
Speaker 2: wisdom of the ages, our neural networks will change. Right now,
Speaker 2: if people are listening to us or watching us, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter the genes in their frontal cortex are being activated.
Speaker 2: If you and I were having an emotional conversation and
Speaker 2: somebody in Africa or China is watching it, their reptilian
Speaker 2: brain would change. So what this technology is doing is
Speaker 2: going to leapfrog or biological revolution, and all the things
Speaker 2: that you heard about in yoga, extra sensory perception, knowledge
Speaker 2: of the future, memory of other lifetimes.
Speaker 1: We will have access to that. Do you think that
Speaker 1: we have the ability to cope with that?
Speaker 2: Well, if we don't we don't adjust, we become extinct.
Speaker 2: So you see, humans are different from every species. Only
Speaker 2: two things other than walking upright and wearing clothes. We
Speaker 2: use language, and now we have multi large language models
Speaker 2: and the two, and we have storytellers. But there's something
Speaker 2: even deeper. We are tool makers. Even in Stone Age,
Speaker 2: we have tools, but every tool has two things. A
Speaker 2: knife you can kill a person in surgeon's hands. It
Speaker 2: fields you, so you can't get away from both. The
Speaker 2: other thing is once the technology is one, you can't
Speaker 2: take it back. It's like a child that's born. You
Speaker 2: can't return to the womb. So either you adjust, that's
Speaker 2: very Darwinian, you adapt, or you become irrelevant. So now
Speaker 2: how do we adapt? How do we cope? But not
Speaker 2: only how do we cope, how do we make it sacred?
Speaker 1: I think that's the challenge that when you talk about grassroots,
Speaker 1: so many people today because they're less aware of how
Speaker 1: to use things for good. Most of us are consumers
Speaker 1: of what is created around us. As you said, we're
Speaker 1: having conversations with AI based on us not asking questions
Speaker 1: because we're unaware.
Speaker 2: I asked, I went to AI, I said, solve the
Speaker 2: gaza problem for me create peace and prosperity in Gaza.
Speaker 2: Fifteen steps all very practical. Resolve the conflict, create abundance
Speaker 2: on both sides, make everyone happy. The technologies are there.
Speaker 2: Who's interested children in Gaza and children talk to the leaders,
Speaker 2: they're not interesting because this is how they get power.
Speaker 2: So unless there's a critical mass for people shifting in consciousness,
Speaker 2: we are in trouble. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the challenge is that a lot of us at
Speaker 1: the grassroots, most people are actually scared that AI is
Speaker 1: going to take their job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a fear. They tell kids, and I actually,
Speaker 2: next time a common and show. I'll show you a
Speaker 2: video game that are created for children that gives them
Speaker 2: Brownie points and they can buy more video games if
Speaker 2: they breathe, if they do yoga, if they activate their
Speaker 2: vehicle nerve, if they use creativity. So you can take
Speaker 2: the mundane tasks for AI and you can unleash the
Speaker 2: creativity of the next generation.
Speaker 1: Tell us more about that, how do we use AI
Speaker 1: for creativity rather than feeling like which jobs are should
Speaker 1: be worried and what should they Okay, so.
Speaker 2: Let's look at the legal profession contracts. You can take
Speaker 2: care of that better. Than any lawyer. Okay. Now the
Speaker 2: lawyers then have to take care of society by looking
Speaker 2: at the constitution. By protecting the constitution, they'll have a
Speaker 2: lot of work, even litigation. Okay, because a I can't
Speaker 2: do that for you as effectively as a creative lawyer.
Speaker 2: AI can simulate creativity, but it cannot have fundamental creativity
Speaker 2: because air is built on algorithms, and creativity is breaking
Speaker 2: the algorithm. That's what we call disruption. Okay. So actually,
Speaker 2: if we take even our children, we create video games
Speaker 2: for health, for longevity, for healing, for homeostasis. You know,
Speaker 2: when the calculator came out, people said, oh it's going
Speaker 2: to get you know, we won't need to do math. No,
Speaker 2: we improved on math. With AI, will will improve and
Speaker 2: improvise new theorems on math. Because even in math, you
Speaker 2: know Ramanujan, the great Indian mathematician. They used to ask
Speaker 2: him where do you get your theorems from? And you
Speaker 2: know he wasn't Cambridge. He would say, the goddess is
Speaker 2: what he gives him to me, and they'd all roll
Speaker 2: up their eyes. Bertrand Russell thought he was crazy, but
Speaker 2: he was flummaxed by him. He didn't know how to
Speaker 2: handle this Indian guy who was in his twenties, and
Speaker 2: he was coming up with theorems that they couldn't prove,
Speaker 2: but they were true. So, you know, with as we
Speaker 2: embark on this adventure with AI, we will also know
Speaker 2: the limitations of AI and how we can enhance our
Speaker 2: creativity with the tools AI gives us. But AI cannot
Speaker 2: have that creativity, right, It never.
Speaker 1: Will, Yeah, because it's not conscious. It's not conscious. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think that's the question was. It was really interesting.
Speaker 1: I was being asked. I was at a panel recently
Speaker 1: and people were asking me whether I believe AI will
Speaker 1: ever have a soul. And my response was, I don't
Speaker 1: think AI will have have a soul, but I hope
Speaker 1: the people that are creating it have a soul. That's
Speaker 1: true because I think the challenge is that anything we
Speaker 1: create has the creator's flaws, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: The creators weaknesses. And you know, my AI was asked
Speaker 2: on CNN, what did you have for breakfast? Is that
Speaker 2: I don't really experience hunger, I don't have thirst, I
Speaker 2: don't have sex. I'm not worried about death. I'm a machine.
Speaker 2: Ask me anything, but don't ask me how I feel
Speaker 2: because that's an activity of the soul.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I feel like that's also the version that
Speaker 1: we've seen made in movies and media, this idea that
Speaker 1: AI somehow gets to a point where it starts to
Speaker 1: but those are.
Speaker 2: All just super intelligent but no soul.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a.
Speaker 2: Lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Another challenge I wanted to speak to you about was
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are feeling that AI and
Speaker 1: not feeling people have seen this AI has. The large
Speaker 1: language models have a racial and gender bias one.
Speaker 2: Especially when I looked at medical research. Very interesting, All
Speaker 2: medical research is white males, not even white females, forget
Speaker 2: about all the rest of the world. So there are
Speaker 2: now movements to rectify that. But yes, it has a
Speaker 2: gender bus it has a racial bias. It has even
Speaker 2: a scientific bias because you know what we call selection
Speaker 2: bias in its answers. Because based on mainstream physical science,
Speaker 2: which is being questioned right now.
Speaker 1: How do we then use large language models better for
Speaker 1: ourselves if we're people of color, women, what can you
Speaker 1: do in order to.
Speaker 2: There are movements now. I'm working with the Indian Caribbean
Speaker 2: person from the Islands from Jamaica who's got a professorship
Speaker 2: University of Central Florida, and he's creating a whole research
Speaker 2: and AI based models that are inclusive rather than exclusive.
Speaker 1: I hope that we start to see some shifting.
Speaker 2: We are, Yeah, we are. You feel positive. I feel positive,
Speaker 2: notwithstanding the politics about the EI and this and that.
Speaker 2: You know, don't get involved in that. Just do what
Speaker 2: you need to do. And hope that at some point
Speaker 2: that people will see that this isolationist, prejudiced world is
Speaker 2: not is not a good survival strategy for anyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why have we not been convinced of that yet?
Speaker 1: I feel like we've seen.
Speaker 2: Fear, fear, fear of fear of being diluted in the
Speaker 2: diversity of the world. You know, people have very fixed identities.
Speaker 2: I'm white, I'm a close Saxon, I'm Catholic, or I'm Protestant.
Speaker 2: Don't threaten me. But and that's true of any fund
Speaker 2: of a list in any part of the world. I'm
Speaker 2: just giving you the bias here, but you know, we
Speaker 2: see that bias everywhere, and that is a dangerous thing
Speaker 2: because if you understand what it's called emergence, the science
Speaker 2: of emergency, they say there's no problem. You cannot solve.
Speaker 2: If you have shared vision, maximum dousity, supporting each other's
Speaker 2: strengths and creating an emotional and spiritual bond, there's no problem.
Speaker 2: I learned that as a physician. If I had a
Speaker 2: difficult patient, let's say, difficult cancer patient, and all the
Speaker 2: cancer specialists say, we don't know what to do with it,
Speaker 2: there's something in the medical profession called grand rounds. You
Speaker 2: take the patient, present the patient to everybody, not just
Speaker 2: the cancer specialists, endochronologists, psychiatrists, storytellers, humanitarians, even poets, and
Speaker 2: you come up with a solution. So when you have
Speaker 2: maximum dosity, shared vision, complementing everybody's strengths and create an
Speaker 2: emotional bond, you solve every problem. And that's what digital
Speaker 2: technology can help us do. How you bring together a problem,
Speaker 2: you said, like the Gaza problem, or you bring together
Speaker 2: even poverty. How do we want to remove powart? Poverty
Speaker 2: and peace are connected, PA say, peace and prosperity. So
Speaker 2: give me the technologies to create this. Here now, if
Speaker 2: you go to digit you go to Deepark, Shopper dot A.
Speaker 2: You can specifically say I'm forty five years old, I'm
Speaker 2: ethnically an Indian, I lived in Britain for my lifetime.
Speaker 2: I am now doing this and this. I have a
Speaker 2: problem sleeping at night, and not only will my AI
Speaker 2: give you a personal solution. You can say, give me
Speaker 2: a meditation to sleep tonight. It will give you a meditate.
Speaker 2: I'm having problem with my relationship. It'll ask you, what's
Speaker 2: the problem I'm not being heard. It'll give you a
Speaker 2: solution for your problem. So my AI is very personal
Speaker 2: for you. It's not just giving you information. What did
Speaker 2: it take for you to make it personal? What did
Speaker 2: that require so that it's different to a chagibt for example.
Speaker 2: Lots of iterations, lots of it. And by the way,
Speaker 2: all the engineers are in India, so they also understand
Speaker 2: what I'm seeing. They're passionate about the project in Bangalore
Speaker 2: and they're as brilliant as any engineer anywhere. But they
Speaker 2: also understand the philosophy. Wow, so that's what made it.
Speaker 2: Now it's in Hindi, it's in English, it's in Arabic
Speaker 2: because huge interest in the Arab world, which was amazing
Speaker 2: to me. And it's also in Spanish. But I think
Speaker 2: in two three months we are having it in China
Speaker 2: and Russia as well.
Speaker 1: So let's say if someone has that sleep issue, what
Speaker 1: kind of prompts would you suggest that they use to
Speaker 1: get the best articles?
Speaker 2: Who just said, hey, Deepak, I'm having a problem with
Speaker 2: sleep issues. And then it'll ask you, you know, what
Speaker 2: time do you go to sleep? Whatever? Then you can
Speaker 2: say this, what time do you eat? What time did
Speaker 2: you wake up? And it will give you some ideas.
Speaker 2: Then say to you do you want a meditation for sleep?
Speaker 2: And then take you to yoga and nidra sleep yoga
Speaker 2: or whatever.
Speaker 1: And what about if someone has a relationship issue in
Speaker 1: they're coming saying I'm thinking about getting divorced from my husband,
Speaker 1: it will.
Speaker 2: Talk you through it. It'll say, why is there a
Speaker 2: communication problem? Are you listening? Are you are you present
Speaker 2: in the relationship? You know? Are you asking yourself questions
Speaker 2: like what am I observing? What am I feeling? What
Speaker 2: do I need? How do I consciously communicate this need?
Speaker 2: It will give you GUIDs And then you say, can
Speaker 2: you give me a medication for conscious communication with my
Speaker 2: in my relationship and create a magication?
Speaker 1: Can we use AI to find love?
Speaker 2: Yes? How how will a teaching you how to be
Speaker 2: a loving person? You know, because that's how you fall
Speaker 2: in love. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always had this vision and AI allows for it.
Speaker 1: Imagine if we all had a coach in our pocket, yeah,
Speaker 1: which you could talk to it at all times. It's
Speaker 1: a health coach, it's a mental coach, it's a spiritual
Speaker 1: goal Yeah. And what are the mistakes you're seeing people
Speaker 1: make in using AI for personal growth or spirituality? What
Speaker 1: pitfalls or common challenges exist or blocks that exist.
Speaker 2: I think most people think that solution is generic. It
Speaker 2: never is, you know, as a physician. Also, I had
Speaker 2: two patients, same disease, same diagnosis, same age, same doctor,
Speaker 2: same age, same treatment. One person lives, one person dies.
Speaker 2: So you have to figure out what are called the
Speaker 2: hidden variables, which is your life, you know, everything from eating, breathing, digestion,
Speaker 2: metabolism sensor. We experienced personal relationships biological too much. But
Speaker 2: the AI can ask you the right questions and it
Speaker 2: can encourage you for the next prompt. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like when you talk about the need for
Speaker 1: this grassroots movement for all of us to turn because the.
Speaker 2: Leaders, well, this conversation expands.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, No, absolutely, I feel like the challenges we're so
Speaker 1: used to using chat, GPT and AI and everything for
Speaker 1: such basic questions, which is good too, It's.
Speaker 2: Okay too, yea, why not? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But I feel like, how do you get to that
Speaker 1: point where we've realized that the power of what exists
Speaker 1: in our hands with such as given example.
Speaker 2: You know, I was, I came today and I just
Speaker 2: says in nineteen seventy and I had gotten married earlier,
Speaker 2: and my wife is pregnant, and I was an intern.
Speaker 2: The junior most person and the chief of medicine calls
Speaker 2: me and he says, you know, I have bad news
Speaker 2: for you. Your wife has a disease called talessemia. That's
Speaker 2: a fatal disease. I said, it's not possible. She's perfectly healthy,
Speaker 2: she is pregnant, and if she had this disease, she
Speaker 2: would be dead by now. So he said, come and
Speaker 2: look at the cells under the microscope. Now, remember this
Speaker 2: is nineteen seventy. There's no Google, nothing. So I look
Speaker 2: at the cells and they look talasemia. But my wife
Speaker 2: is healthy. I can't figure it out. So I go
Speaker 2: to this is New Jersey, small hospital. I go to
Speaker 2: New York. I spent two days in the New York
Speaker 2: library looking for thalassemia and thalasmia trait. So thalasimia is
Speaker 2: a disease, and some people have the trade, but they
Speaker 2: don't have the disease because you need two parents to
Speaker 2: have the same trait to get the disease. What do
Speaker 2: I discover that thalasimia exists along the exact route that
Speaker 2: Alexander the Great took to India from Macedonia. All the
Speaker 2: way to India, there's a people have thalasimia trait. So
Speaker 2: some ancestor of my wife was probably raped by a
Speaker 2: soldier two five hundred years ago, and that evidence is
Speaker 2: in her blood. It took me three days to discover
Speaker 2: that major discovery. You asked chat jeputy that question or
Speaker 2: any large language model give you the answer in two seconds. Wow.
Speaker 1: So the speed of what happened in that scenario.
Speaker 2: Well, I was reassured that there's nothing wrong. But I
Speaker 2: also told my wife that some Greek was messing around
Speaker 2: with your great great great grade grandma. How does she
Speaker 2: react to that? Well, it's a historical fact. The footprints
Speaker 2: of history are in your genes. You know. There's not
Speaker 2: even a single break of life from the first organisms
Speaker 2: from four billion years to now. There's not a single
Speaker 2: break in the chain of existence, which is a miracle
Speaker 2: of existence America. Yeah, if there was one break in
Speaker 2: the chain four billion years, you won't be here. We
Speaker 2: won't have this conversation.
Speaker 1: Yea life market. I wonder how quickly we got you.
Speaker 1: You were saying like fire was almost one of the
Speaker 1: first technologies or tools we created. I wonder how quickly
Speaker 1: we got bored of fire. But I guess we didn't
Speaker 1: because it was.
Speaker 2: So we see, this is so interesting about human beings
Speaker 2: that they get so easily adjusted to the miracle of existence.
Speaker 2: Why do we exist? Why are we here? What got
Speaker 2: us here? And you know, I asked, chatchigipit, you know
Speaker 2: what is currently the theory of creation? Big Bang? I said?
Speaker 2: Went back, what caused the Big Bang? For the first time? Pause,
Speaker 2: No cause can be ascribed to the Big Bang? And
Speaker 2: I said, what happened in the plank epoch? The plank
Speaker 2: e park is tended to the power of minus thirty
Speaker 2: three seconds after the Big Bang when there are no
Speaker 2: laws of physics? Said what happened in the plank epark?
Speaker 2: Don't know? This is chat jipity? I said, why is
Speaker 2: the universe so precisely mathematically fine tuned for life, for consciousness,
Speaker 2: and for our being here don't know. I found twenty
Speaker 2: loopholes in the current cosmology of creation. Twenty loopholes. Then
Speaker 2: I said, can you now reverse this? Can you begin
Speaker 2: with consciousness as non local as you know Brahman field
Speaker 2: of infinite possibilities that differentiates into experience. It hesitated for
Speaker 2: a split second, but then it pulled out all the
Speaker 2: data from rig Veda from here. From there I was
Speaker 2: blown away. So who have you shown this work to?
Speaker 2: Who have you showned this? I now posts all this
Speaker 2: on videos on on Instagram, but Instagram has very short
Speaker 2: so I push your teaser and then I pushed them
Speaker 2: to YouTube and those who have the patients, they look
Speaker 2: at it and it's getting attention.
Speaker 1: What about in terms of scientists and people like that,
Speaker 1: when you're having a conversation with Sam Altman and he's
Speaker 1: obviously fascinated as you see.
Speaker 2: On board because he's curious, and then some scientists, not
Speaker 2: mainstream scienceists, but there's a scientists you should have him
Speaker 2: on your show. He's brilliant. His name is Don Hoffman.
Speaker 2: He's here at the University of California, actually is in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, close by the University of California her mine.
Speaker 2: So he for twenty five years total physicalist. And by
Speaker 2: the way, the genius behind his work is an Indian
Speaker 2: guy called Chatan Prakash who was professor of mathematics in
Speaker 2: Cambridge or Oxford or something, but now works with them.
Speaker 2: The two are amazing Chetan Prakash. So he struggled for
Speaker 2: twenty five years to prove because he's a brain scientist
Speaker 2: and he's a quantum physicist and mathematician how the brain
Speaker 2: produces consciousness. Twenty five years later, one day he woke
Speaker 2: up and he said, you know, thinking how the brain
Speaker 2: produces consciousness is like Aladdin's lamp. You rub the lamp
Speaker 2: and the genie wakes up concious, up the old universe.
Speaker 2: So he gave up and he wrote a book, The
Speaker 2: Case Against Reality, which is a mathematical and quantum mechanical
Speaker 2: explanation for maya or projection. And he was vilified. I
Speaker 2: supported him. I have twenty five conversations with him on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Then a bunch of scientists started supporting him. And right
Speaker 2: now he's a heart ticket in the world of science
Speaker 2: because if what he's saying and what chet and Prakashi
Speaker 2: is saying it will approve the entire scientific parady and
Speaker 2: it'll make it better. Because if the universe is an
Speaker 2: immersive experience, then v are xr MR immersive experiences, our
Speaker 2: technologies will extend our experience of virtual reality. We're already
Speaker 2: in a virtual reality. So right now there are technologies
Speaker 2: extended reality immersive experience where you can take a person with, say, burns,
Speaker 2: and you can give them a VR session and the
Speaker 2: burns get healed, inflammation goes away. Who may exists already
Speaker 2: already autism a child and you teach it emotional and
Speaker 2: social skills by giving the child an emotional experience with
Speaker 2: the child actually having normal features and emotionally engaged, and
Speaker 2: the neural networks start rewiring. So in about ten years
Speaker 2: you doctors may not give you a prescription for the pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 2: They're already talking about digitaluticals, metaceuticals, and the future we
Speaker 2: are experienced to treat heart disease, inflammation, cancer, autoimmune disease,
Speaker 2: eating disorders, autism. It's all happening right now. It is happening,
Speaker 2: and you can check it out on Yeah. Wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2: I mean I had no idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when I'm hearing about all of this is always
Speaker 1: it's like you're fascinated because you think about how much
Speaker 1: people's lives will improve one hundred. But I think every
Speaker 1: time there's improvement, we all so inherit all these new problems, right,
Speaker 1: you look at.
Speaker 2: Because people are coming from fear. If they came from love,
Speaker 2: they would see the benefits of this. They're coming from fear.
Speaker 1: Is it fear or is it a sense of just
Speaker 1: almost not knowing what to focus on because our education
Speaker 1: doesn't really create a directional like our education when you
Speaker 1: were saying earlier. Technology has moved so fast, but our
Speaker 1: understanding of the self has remained so correct, amateur. And
Speaker 1: when you look at the education system, the education system
Speaker 1: hasn't caught up with technology either, because the education system
Speaker 1: is still kind of trudging along. It is so when
Speaker 1: the education.
Speaker 2: Education which used to be in the Indian nashrooms in
Speaker 2: the old day, you know where students would go and
Speaker 2: be under a spiritual guide or a teacher. It's missing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But what do we do because I feel like
Speaker 1: even the challenge that people have with chat, GPT or
Speaker 1: any platform is our education system doesn't teach us to
Speaker 1: ask good questions We're always told to give the answer.
Speaker 1: That's what we're fixating is result, reward the answer.
Speaker 2: And so I do know answers, they're only questions, right.
Speaker 1: But we're so bad at asking questions. Yeah, AI requires
Speaker 1: us to be brilliant at asking questions. How do we
Speaker 1: get better asking questions?
Speaker 2: We have to teach people to ask questions, you know,
Speaker 2: and we have to teach them how to live the questions.
Speaker 2: But then life provides the answers, not the textbook. Life
Speaker 2: provides the answers, you know. As as you were speaking,
Speaker 2: I was thinking, just I don't know why it came
Speaker 2: to me right now. Chapter thirteen of the Lord Christians says,
Speaker 2: I'm the field, and I'm the nor of the field.
Speaker 2: Field is shit, and then the nor of the field,
Speaker 2: the field is awareness, and it modulates itself as mind
Speaker 2: intellect ego, the five senses, the five motive organs, the
Speaker 2: five tanmatras, and the vital energy and the universe. I
Speaker 2: was thinking that one chapter has the key to reality. Okay,
Speaker 2: how do we now these biosensors which I'm wearing, they
Speaker 2: are actually extending my knowledge of self awareness. But my
Speaker 2: body already knows, you know, if I'm if I'm doing
Speaker 2: something that I shouldn't be doing, I feel pain over here.
Speaker 2: If I eat the wrong food, I get in digestion.
Speaker 2: If I don't sleep at night, I'm messed up the
Speaker 2: next day. So my body is already the field of awareness.
Speaker 2: And it's a biosensor, it's a biomotor, and it's a biocomputer.
Speaker 2: The biocomputer is consciousness. The biomotor is the five motor organs,
Speaker 2: the biosensor the five senses. Now with this technology, I
Speaker 2: can extend it. I'm also wearing a BCG with blood
Speaker 2: sugar monitoring, not that I have diabetes, but it can
Speaker 2: relate my metabolism to all this now and intervened right
Speaker 2: there through a video game or through a visual or
Speaker 2: through an auditory experience, or through some visual experience, I
Speaker 2: can do that. So actually, in the future, I'm really
Speaker 2: serious about this. And I met the R and D
Speaker 2: chiefs of the biggest pharmaceutical companies. Say, you, guys, if
Speaker 2: you don't get into digital uticals, metaceuticals, immusive experiences, you'll
Speaker 2: be left behind. And some of these biggest pharmaceutical companies
Speaker 2: now they have thousands of scientists looking at these new technologies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, how do you get you said seventy eight plus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing, it's incredible your you're vibrant and energetic
Speaker 1: as I love what I do. Yeah, it's amazing. It
Speaker 1: comes across naturally. And you were saying that longevity obviously,
Speaker 1: as we've seen in the world, has become such a
Speaker 1: big talking not addressing the real luge solutions.
Speaker 2: What is the real longevity solution? Consciousness as the regulator
Speaker 2: of your biology. Time is the consumer and we are food.
Speaker 2: How do we slow down the metabolism of time? How
Speaker 2: do you use every sense we experience to eel ourselves,
Speaker 2: whether it sound and now, Oh, you can go on
Speaker 2: on TPACT, but you can go in chat Chi too
Speaker 2: and say how do Mantra's work. It will give you,
Speaker 2: it will give you the right answer. Okay, do mantras
Speaker 2: change genetic activity? Yes? They do. So this is a
Speaker 2: revolution right now because in the past you would say
Speaker 2: this is howcus focus. Here's the evidence what is happening
Speaker 2: in genetic and very few people are identifying that. But
Speaker 2: this technology will find those people. There's a scientist from
Speaker 2: India called Anirban Bandhubadha who's from Bihar. He went to
Speaker 2: IIT in some little place. There are many IITs in India,
Speaker 2: So in a place called Monday in Himachal Pradesh. He's
Speaker 2: now the chief scientific officer for a very big outfit
Speaker 2: in Japan, and he's totally on board on consciousness and
Speaker 2: how it is. You know, the brain is like a
Speaker 2: computer interface. So the consciousness uses the brain to give
Speaker 2: you access to experience. Just like I can go on
Speaker 2: my desktop computer and I don't need to know how
Speaker 2: it works. I press Amazon dot com. It gives me
Speaker 2: a way to shop. Yes, So the brain is like
Speaker 2: that computer interface, and these neural correlates a little symbolic,
Speaker 2: you might say, symbols that you can use to plug
Speaker 2: in to the bigger reality. And so I'm going to
Speaker 2: India just to meet this guy because he's brilliant, and
Speaker 2: he's in Japan, but he's questioning Nobel Laureates at the
Speaker 2: moment and he's brilliant. Absolutely. And you see, you have
Speaker 2: to have a cultural background to explore all this because
Speaker 2: you know, when you speak to scientists who totally brought
Speaker 2: up in the materialistic paradigm reductionists, they roll their eyes,
Speaker 2: they said, what are you talking about? This is nonsense?
Speaker 1: But what do you think it's going to take for
Speaker 1: those individuals to actually open up their minds.
Speaker 2: And the science the science.
Speaker 1: Do you think though, that we can even measure some
Speaker 1: of this with science, Like is it even possible to see?
Speaker 2: You can't measure the experience, but you can measure the
Speaker 2: symbolic correlate of the experience as what is called the
Speaker 2: neural correlate of experience. You can see the pat what
Speaker 2: they call pattern recognition. Okay, so the brain has a
Speaker 2: pattern recognition to an experience. It's like your desktop with
Speaker 2: twenty or thirty or in this case infinite symbols that
Speaker 2: you can.
Speaker 1: Plug into to get the experience right right. Fascinating, It
Speaker 1: is fascinating. It is fascinating the more because we have
Speaker 1: a common language. I can understand the ease with which
Speaker 1: you know, But when I think about people who don't
Speaker 1: have that, it becomes so hard to wrap your head
Speaker 1: around even the possibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and ultimately still a mystery. You know, we know
Speaker 2: how to use you know, just like we know how
Speaker 2: to use computers without knowing what's happening in the belly
Speaker 2: of the computer that you leave to the engineers. But
Speaker 2: we can still use a computer that's what we need.
Speaker 2: You can fly a plane as a pilot without knowing
Speaker 2: how the airplane works. So that's all we need to
Speaker 2: use the technology because ultimately what we call consciousness is
Speaker 2: such an infinite mystery that in the end you have
Speaker 2: to surrender to it. You know, the fifth Niama, which
Speaker 2: surrender to the divine each word surrender, because you won't
Speaker 2: be able to solve it. You know, what's his name,
Speaker 2: Freeman Dyson, one of the greatest physicists of all times, Princeton,
Speaker 2: before that Cambridge. He said, God is what the mind
Speaker 2: becomes when you can't figure it out, when it process,
Speaker 2: it goes beyond the threshold of your comprehension. You have
Speaker 2: to surrender to the mystery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is the If someone's really interested in self realization,
Speaker 1: they're really fascinated by the conversation you're having.
Speaker 2: My next book what is called awakening? Oh wow, okay, perfect?
Speaker 2: The Path to Freedom and Enlightenment. I'll come to you.
Speaker 1: Oh please, I love that. Now I was going to
Speaker 1: ask you, what's the first question? They should ask ai?
Speaker 2: Who am I? Who am I? Then they should go,
Speaker 2: you know, all the way like Romana Marsh, did you
Speaker 2: know am I the body or am I the awareness
Speaker 2: in which the body is a changing experience? Am I
Speaker 2: the mind? All the way this was. These days it's
Speaker 2: being called the direct method. But it was popularized by
Speaker 2: an Indian teacher called Atmanan Krishna Menan. But it's ancient.
Speaker 2: It's there in the Vedic literature. And right now it's
Speaker 2: been called the direct method, and yoga and all the
Speaker 2: other methods are called the progressive method. Direct means you question,
Speaker 2: what is this? Well, the human construct is this is
Speaker 2: a glass of water? Okay, what else is it? It's
Speaker 2: an object, But before you can call it an object,
Speaker 2: it's an experience. Where is the experience happening? Not in
Speaker 2: the brain. There's no photo of this in your brain. Okay,
Speaker 2: So where is happening consciousness? Where is consciousness? Don't know?
Speaker 2: Why don't you know? Because it doesn't have a form.
Speaker 2: So this is an experience happening in the infinite. The
Speaker 2: infinite is present in every finite experience. God is not
Speaker 2: difficult to find. God is impossible to avoid. It's in
Speaker 2: everything that you see. You need consciousness, and that consciousness infinite.
Speaker 2: So every finite experience is based on the presence of
Speaker 2: the infinite. This is the direct method. It's a reflection.
Speaker 2: It's called atma vichar, and it leads to what is
Speaker 2: called artma dshan. But that's very deep for both people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly which depact we have? Why not asked
Speaker 1: you today that I should have asked you? No, I
Speaker 1: think you asked me a lot I was going to
Speaker 1: ask I was gonna ask you GPT. Right now, I'm
Speaker 1: going to say what questions should ask you? I ask
Speaker 1: Deepak about AI and spirituality.
Speaker 2: I'm doing this live and in real time. Yeah, not
Speaker 2: part of our original prep.
Speaker 1: It says if you're having a conversation with deep and spirituality,
Speaker 1: you might want to explore how he viewsed the intersection
Speaker 1: of technolog consciousness, which we did, and it says, how
Speaker 1: do you see AI influencing human consciousness and spirituality in
Speaker 1: the coming years.
Speaker 2: We talked about that.
Speaker 1: I believe in your view, can artificial intelligence ever truly
Speaker 1: achieve consciousness or a sense of self awareness? You said no,
Speaker 1: So we talked about that. Do you think AI could
Speaker 1: be used to enhance spiritual practices such as meditation self awareness?
Speaker 2: You said yes. We talked about that.
Speaker 1: How do you reconcile the rapid development of AI with
Speaker 1: spiritual concepts of mindfulness, presence. Yeah, we've Yeah, it feels good.
Speaker 2: We did a good job.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to see if there's anything that we missed
Speaker 1: here that we didn't ask you. No, it's pretty farn Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's pretty amazing. It's pretty phenomenal. But debag, I'm always
Speaker 1: in awe of how you've found a way to take
Speaker 1: the teachings of the East so far and so deep
Speaker 1: and now to take it all the way through to AI.
Speaker 2: And this is India's contribution to the words really is
Speaker 2: we never conquered through violence, but our culture is taking
Speaker 2: over the world, whether it's Bollywood, or it's cuisine, or
Speaker 2: its fashion, or its philosophy or its spirituality. This is
Speaker 2: the way to influence the world. As you know, there's
Speaker 2: a Sanskrit expression bars they've kam the world is our family. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: The book is called Digital Dharma. Of course, head over
Speaker 1: to Deepatupra dot Ai will be putting a code for
Speaker 1: anyone who wants to use it. As well. As always,
Speaker 1: you've blurned my mind, You've expanded my consciousness.
Speaker 2: You make me proud of the culture.
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to study and deeply look at
Speaker 1: in my time and thank you so much for doing
Speaker 1: all the incredible work you are and peace for.
Speaker 2: Going up in here and leading the way for your generation.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, thank you.
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Speaker 1: to be shocked to hear that, because I think most
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