WEBVTT - Jedidiah Jenkins 0:00:00.260 --> 0:00:15.830 Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 0:00:15.870 --> 0:00:19.750 to this week's Work in Progress, my friends. This is 0:00:19.810 --> 0:00:24.630 a first. This episode is airing on the day that 0:00:24.710 --> 0:00:29.790 my book comes out. I can't believe we're here. This 0:00:29.850 --> 0:00:32.800 is a big day for me. And I will tell 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.460 you mine. My first memoir is officially out in the world. 0:00:36.620 --> 0:00:42.080 And so to celebrate it and honor it and mark 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.979 it in the sort of calendar of life, I wanted 0:00:45.140 --> 0:00:49.020 to bring on a guest today who knows a thing 0:00:49.090 --> 0:00:52.250 or two or four about putting your life on the 0:00:52.290 --> 0:00:57.640 page and who knows far more things about me. One 0:00:57.660 --> 0:01:02.760 of my best friends and favorite writers, Jedediah Jenkins, is 0:01:02.820 --> 0:01:06.539 here today. He's a three-time New York Times bestselling author 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.539 whose books explore everything from a bicycle journey lasting 16 0:01:11.540 --> 0:01:16.009 months from Oregon to Patagonia to the complicated relationship between 0:01:16.030 --> 0:01:20.770 a mother and son, explorations about faith, identity, family, and 0:01:20.790 --> 0:01:23.270 the questions that can change the course of a life. 0:01:24.030 --> 0:01:26.530 Jed is the kind of person that you want to 0:01:26.569 --> 0:01:31.770 go to with your secrets and with your successes. And 0:01:31.790 --> 0:01:35.190 he's someone who can be that kind of space for 0:01:35.230 --> 0:01:39.370 you if you're a reader of his books. We met 0:01:39.450 --> 0:01:41.790 years ago at a gathering of people who wanted to 0:01:41.830 --> 0:01:44.530 make the world a better place almost 20 years ago now, 0:01:44.610 --> 0:01:50.000 I can't believe it. And pretty instantaneously, he was part 0:01:50.030 --> 0:01:52.610 of my chosen family. He was part of the group 0:01:52.630 --> 0:01:55.350 of friends who helped me find my footing back in 0:01:55.390 --> 0:01:59.740 Los Angeles after 10 years in North Carolina. He's one 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.480 of the people I think of when I think of home. 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:06.020 There's so much to admire about my friend Jed. His 0:02:06.060 --> 0:02:09.280 relentless curiosity, his willingness to take a leap, and the 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:13.230 way he brings people together. And so on the day 0:02:13.330 --> 0:02:16.429 that I am putting my own story out there, I 0:02:16.470 --> 0:02:18.529 just can't think of anyone I'd rather have here with 0:02:18.570 --> 0:02:22.140 me than a friend who knows firsthand. What it means 0:02:22.220 --> 0:02:24.900 to turn the pieces of your life into a book. 0:02:25.580 --> 0:02:41.450 Let's dive in with Jadadiah Jenkins. Well, this is actually 0:02:41.510 --> 0:02:42.390 my dream come true. 0:02:42.410 --> 0:02:45.389 Hi, Sophia. Congratulations on today. 0:02:45.490 --> 0:02:48.410 How I love. Can you believe it? I love you. 0:02:49.910 --> 0:02:51.550 It's an honor to be on your amazing show. 0:02:51.570 --> 0:02:54.350 Well, I'm just so thrilled to be here. It's an 0:02:54.410 --> 0:02:58.440 honor to be your friend. And it's funny, we've talked 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.780 about doing this for so long. And now I'm so 0:03:01.820 --> 0:03:05.620 glad that it took forever because we're in this kismet season. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:11.150 Well, dear listener, I know this is Sophia's podcast, but 0:03:11.910 --> 0:03:15.350 I'm kind of going to steal the show because I 0:03:15.470 --> 0:03:19.790 want to make this about you, Sophia, you have, this 0:03:19.870 --> 0:03:22.709 is a gauntlet moment. This is a birth canal moment 0:03:24.070 --> 0:03:27.110 where I think everybody thinks they have a book in 0:03:27.150 --> 0:03:31.070 them and a memoir and autobiography. This like the story 0:03:31.110 --> 0:03:33.170 of your life and how you got here. I believe 0:03:33.190 --> 0:03:38.370 as a memoirist is, I believe is mandatory and it 0:03:38.410 --> 0:03:41.190 can be as simple as journaling, but I'm like people, 0:03:41.270 --> 0:03:44.490 you need to write your story because unless you sit 0:03:44.550 --> 0:03:48.290 down and try to figure out what this means, you 0:03:48.330 --> 0:03:50.930 don't know where you're going. You're just responding to the 0:03:50.970 --> 0:03:53.090 wind as opposed to being in the driver's seat of 0:03:53.110 --> 0:03:58.010 your life. And today I will tell you mine comes 0:03:58.150 --> 0:04:02.350 out and it's like, people will actually get to hold it. 0:04:02.390 --> 0:04:04.340 They've pre-ordered it. They're going to go to Barnes and 0:04:04.350 --> 0:04:06.100 Noble right now. They're going to go to books a million. 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:07.700 They're going to go to their local bookstore and get 0:04:07.740 --> 0:04:12.140 it and sit down and spend this next week or 0:04:12.340 --> 0:04:17.870 maybe all night binging it. And it's like, I know 0:04:17.910 --> 0:04:21.410 that's scary, but I want to ask you, like, how 0:04:21.450 --> 0:04:22.390 have you been feeling? 0:04:25.089 --> 0:04:32.800 I mean, you know this. Thank God that the night 0:04:32.890 --> 0:04:36.400 I turned in my book, again, in Kismet was also 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.300 the night you turned in your fourth book, literal mic drop. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:43.340 That is crazy. And for our friends at home, I 0:04:43.380 --> 0:04:46.220 FaceTimed Jed and was like, what are the chances that 0:04:46.980 --> 0:04:49.160 nearly 20 years into us knowing each other, this is 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:55.719 happening to us on the same day. And I remember 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.250 your gauntlet experience when your first book was coming out, 0:04:59.310 --> 0:05:01.169 when To Shake the Sleeping Self was coming out, and 0:05:01.210 --> 0:05:04.930 we had that insane week together in New York. We'll 0:05:04.950 --> 0:05:10.760 get there. But you were such a safe place for 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:14.240 me to land at the end of this process because 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.000 I essentially felt like I'd been picked up by a 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.720 tornado and like battered into the rocks of my own 0:05:20.820 --> 0:05:24.700 soul and dropped off on some foreign shore you know 0:05:24.740 --> 0:05:28.440 just wet and bruised and I was like is this 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:31.910 normal I thought there I thought there was supposed to 0:05:31.930 --> 0:05:35.290 be all this joy in this process and then all 0:05:35.310 --> 0:05:37.310 of my gorgeous friends like you who've written books were 0:05:37.350 --> 0:05:39.969 like no it's absolute torture and then comes the. 0:05:39.910 --> 0:05:44.200 Joy Well, and then comes the joy, which for me, 0:05:44.310 --> 0:05:49.089 the joy is being able to stand in a place 0:05:49.130 --> 0:05:52.530 of strength and say what your younger self wished it 0:05:52.550 --> 0:05:56.530 could have said in strength, even with a trembling voice. 0:05:56.910 --> 0:06:00.210 And then it's not just for you. It's when somebody says, 0:06:00.990 --> 0:06:03.180 I didn't know I could see myself like that. I 0:06:03.210 --> 0:06:05.080 didn't know that was an option. I didn't know I 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.120 could stand up and speak out and be that. little 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.200 girl who believed in her power and I could do 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.020 that and bring her back. And that is when the 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.380 joy comes, but it is, it is scary. It is 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.600 overwhelming because you're talking about real people. You're talking about 0:06:21.620 --> 0:06:26.320 your life. You're talking about your family relationships, friendships, those 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:30.250 people exist. This we're not writing fantasy novels here. And 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:35.310 it is this catharsis that I wish more people could experience. 0:06:35.940 --> 0:06:36.240 Yes. 0:06:36.779 --> 0:06:39.840 So dear listeners, I'm about to release my fourth book. 0:06:40.420 --> 0:06:43.160 And every single time I've done a book tour, I 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:47.349 got sick, like, like debilitatingly sick. And by the way, 0:06:47.430 --> 0:06:50.910 I didn't not like, not like a cold or the flu, 0:06:50.970 --> 0:06:54.990 like my brain was like psychosomatically shutting down my body 0:06:55.089 --> 0:06:55.910 out of anxiety. 0:06:56.410 --> 0:06:56.710 Yes. 0:06:57.350 --> 0:07:00.050 And Sophia knows me as well as anybody like I 0:07:00.089 --> 0:07:03.110 don't do that. Like this was a totally new experience 0:07:03.130 --> 0:07:06.940 for me. And I've only learned out of repetition. 0:07:07.700 --> 0:07:07.979 Yeah. 0:07:08.620 --> 0:07:11.160 It's a fear response of like putting yourself out there 0:07:11.220 --> 0:07:13.440 and not knowing how people will receive you, which is, 0:07:14.780 --> 0:07:19.680 you know, that is the human response. But my question 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.200 for you, Sophia, is being a public, because you were 0:07:22.250 --> 0:07:26.630 a public person first in a way and have had 0:07:27.590 --> 0:07:31.910 strangers digest your life and puke it back to you 0:07:31.930 --> 0:07:34.110 in a way that I hadn't. 0:07:35.380 --> 0:07:35.540 Yeah. 0:07:35.580 --> 0:07:38.700 And so like, well, first of all, let's set the 0:07:38.740 --> 0:07:44.960 stage of how do you feel right now about this 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.200 book coming out today? Like zoom out. 0:07:50.180 --> 0:07:53.500 I think only in the last few weeks have I 0:07:53.620 --> 0:07:59.530 really felt settled with it. There are certainly things I 0:07:59.570 --> 0:08:03.730 feel anxious about because I know to your point, I've 0:08:03.770 --> 0:08:06.950 been in the washing machine of a public life for 0:08:06.970 --> 0:08:10.170 a long time. So I already know how gross the 0:08:10.230 --> 0:08:16.550 world is. But I also know on the other side 0:08:16.650 --> 0:08:22.380 of the seesaw how beautiful it is. And I am 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:28.180 nervous about what will be ugly. And I feel really 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:29.240 secure in. 0:08:31.830 --> 0:08:34.030 This moment because my story is mine. 0:08:35.990 --> 0:08:40.069 Having exercised that muscle to some degree where you say 0:08:40.110 --> 0:08:42.069 something in an interview and they take it in a 0:08:42.110 --> 0:08:47.540 different direction or you write something and it's like you 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.260 have a little bit of muscle memory of being in 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:55.179 the public and having it become a conversation in a 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:59.020 direction you didn't anticipate and surviving that and surviving it beautifully. 0:08:59.420 --> 0:09:04.900 I've witnessed that. your strength and poise and you're blessed 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.880 because you are a talker and you can find the 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:11.500 words where some people, they just get bulldozed by a 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.719 situation and they don't know how to process it. Like 0:09:14.780 --> 0:09:18.520 you have the tools, but I don't know. How are 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.040 you feeling equipped for this new moment? 0:09:22.780 --> 0:09:25.070 I think the interesting thing is as I, as I 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:30.540 know myself better, um, And frankly, in the last couple 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:36.980 of years, as I have finally put down the expectations 0:09:37.020 --> 0:09:40.090 of a culture and a society and the conscious and 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:45.710 unconscious messaging that women in particular get handed from the 0:09:45.770 --> 0:09:52.550 time we're so small, the interesting thing is deconstructing that. Like, 0:09:52.630 --> 0:09:57.910 that was my version of a religious deconstruction. And taking 0:09:57.970 --> 0:10:03.929 that apart has been so seismic. And in a strange way, 0:10:03.970 --> 0:10:07.689 I've realized a lot of what looks like poise or confidence, 0:10:07.870 --> 0:10:11.309 a lot of what my therapist calls my alarming unflappability 0:10:12.130 --> 0:10:21.100 is actually just me knowing how to internalize how much 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:25.179 that stuff really does hurt because the hurt is also 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:29.740 inconvenient for other people. And it's really only recently that 0:10:29.780 --> 0:10:33.420 I've gone, oh, I've actually been very traumatized by this 0:10:33.500 --> 0:10:37.160 kind of public attention. And by the way, women get 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:43.100 chopped up like meat and thrown out for people to 0:10:43.420 --> 0:10:46.620 snack on. Like it's a really surreal thing. And I 0:10:47.300 --> 0:10:50.040 do finally feel like I can kind of give myself 0:10:50.530 --> 0:10:54.670 some flowers for you've survived this and you've been pretty 0:10:54.730 --> 0:10:57.410 classy through it. Occasionally you get a little upset and 0:10:57.429 --> 0:11:00.770 my like fiery Italian, you know, heritage from the Bronx 0:11:00.809 --> 0:11:05.880 comes out and I'm snippy, but mostly I really do 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:13.059 think I keep it above board and that has been hard. 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.900 And I feel like I'm only finally now that I've 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.350 really felt it and admitted that I am so much 0:11:20.390 --> 0:11:25.230 more sensitive than perhaps I appear. In the strangest way, 0:11:25.350 --> 0:11:28.850 admitting that it's been harder than I'd like to share. 0:11:28.870 --> 0:11:28.950 Yeah. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.260 Is making room for the hard to leave and for 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:41.250 me to claim more joy. You know, and. There's something 0:11:41.330 --> 0:11:43.949 about that. Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that 0:11:44.030 --> 0:11:47.770 my friends, you know, whether it's you or Sammy or 0:11:47.809 --> 0:11:50.800 Nia or like people, my people are like, you have 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.959 just gotten so much funnier. And I'm like, okay, I 0:11:55.020 --> 0:11:58.140 love that because I'm not holding all of this stuff 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.199 in pretending that it's easy. And so it's a really 0:12:02.260 --> 0:12:08.530 interesting dialectic where finally saying something the thing in the 0:12:08.610 --> 0:12:12.150 fullness of what's hard also allows for so much more 0:12:12.170 --> 0:12:16.360 that is the opposite of hard. And that's been kind 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.620 of a head spinning thing in this process. And I 0:12:19.660 --> 0:12:21.160 feel like it's really been a gift. 0:12:22.220 --> 0:12:26.020 Well, I think that is one of the gifts that 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.880 this book will give people is that you process that 0:12:28.990 --> 0:12:31.689 on the page in a way that is very vulnerable 0:12:31.890 --> 0:12:36.070 and scary. And I mean, that's what, makes a page 0:12:36.130 --> 0:12:40.930 turner to be honest, but also I think what we're 0:12:40.970 --> 0:12:44.070 saying when we say you're funnier is there's like a, 0:12:44.710 --> 0:12:47.449 like you're leaned back in the chair and you're like 0:12:47.850 --> 0:12:52.330 making a joke because you think it's funny, not because 0:12:53.690 --> 0:12:55.690 the person is supposed to say the thing that is 0:12:55.730 --> 0:12:58.790 funny now. Does that make sense? And like, there's a, 0:12:59.110 --> 0:13:02.410 there's a settledness and it might just be finding love. 0:13:02.630 --> 0:13:05.130 It might be finding true love and in the form that, 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.839 It was always meant to be in. And I think 0:13:10.420 --> 0:13:14.960 there's just life being a series of waking up in 0:13:15.020 --> 0:13:17.640 a mummy suit. And it's our job, you know, at 0:13:17.740 --> 0:13:21.580 age eight or age whatever, 14, you're just like a mummy. 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.400 And you're like, I guess over the next 30 years 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:28.980 or 80 years, I have to peel this back layer 0:13:29.020 --> 0:13:30.800 by layer until I find my skin again. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:31.740 Yeah. 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.400 And that's what that's what the art of memoir is. 0:13:35.170 --> 0:13:37.130 And now a word from our sponsors who make this 0:13:37.150 --> 0:13:37.870 show possible. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.800 This is kind of like a functional question, but I 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:52.640 think it's fun because it's also my job and I 0:13:52.660 --> 0:13:56.340 listen to podcasts like this, but like, I think there's 0:13:56.380 --> 0:13:59.950 probably a lot of people listening right now who are 0:14:00.030 --> 0:14:02.250 either waiting for this book to arrive in the mail 0:14:02.390 --> 0:14:05.900 today or going to get it. And they're like, God, what, 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.520 what if like, I have a story to tell, like 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:13.060 my life has been fucking crazy. Like, how do you 0:14:13.140 --> 0:14:16.400 even begin to tell your story? What was, what was 0:14:16.460 --> 0:14:22.880 your just blank dry erase board? How did it begin? 0:14:22.900 --> 0:14:29.040 Oh man. You know, I remember thinking, God, I wish 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.810 I had And you know this about me, and I 0:14:31.850 --> 0:14:35.470 also know this is such an ADHD trait of like, look, 0:14:35.650 --> 0:14:37.450 this will be the journal that gets me to journal. 0:14:37.510 --> 0:14:38.910 This will be the notebook. 0:14:38.510 --> 0:14:39.550 That organizes my life. 0:14:39.860 --> 0:14:42.260 You bought me this gorgeous journal like 10 years ago, 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.060 and it's still mostly empty, but I carry it with me. 0:14:46.100 --> 0:14:47.660 I carry it with me for three weeks in Japan. 0:14:47.700 --> 0:14:49.700 I didn't write a word in it. I just like 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:50.700 knowing that I could. 0:14:51.220 --> 0:14:57.080 Exactly. Like, I do the same, and... I remember thinking, 0:14:57.460 --> 0:15:00.580 because you, you, at least when, when traveling, you're a 0:15:00.620 --> 0:15:01.420 great journaler. 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.500 And that's when I'm like performing the me I want 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:06.480 to be right. 0:15:06.540 --> 0:15:08.660 You're like, this is my Steinbeck moment and I'm in 0:15:08.740 --> 0:15:13.920 travels with Charlie. And, um, I remember thinking like, if 0:15:14.140 --> 0:15:19.380 I had only gotten in the habit of journaling, this 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.160 would have been easier. But I also think I had 0:15:23.230 --> 0:15:26.650 to go through this kind of deconstruction of my own 0:15:28.910 --> 0:15:36.479 glass house or whatever to be in the space where 0:15:36.540 --> 0:15:40.280 I could start. And what I caught myself doing is 0:15:40.340 --> 0:15:44.360 I started making a note with the date in my iPhone. 0:15:45.500 --> 0:15:46.960 Like I'd open the notes app and be like, I 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.550 have to write this down before I forget. And I 0:15:49.630 --> 0:15:54.110 would do that. And after a couple of months, I 0:15:54.150 --> 0:15:57.880 was like, Oh, cause my book agent, you know, my, 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.780 the agency that I am at has a book division. 0:16:01.500 --> 0:16:04.660 So my book agent just went into the system, you know, 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.400 like my film agent can and sent me an email 0:16:08.260 --> 0:16:09.900 almost 10 years ago and was like, you have to 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.100 write a book. I mean, it must've been 10 years ago. 0:16:12.140 --> 0:16:14.400 I was, I was working in Chicago and I was like, 0:16:14.460 --> 0:16:16.800 I'm not doing that. And she would send me my 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.560 pontificating on Instagram or like an op-ed I'd written and 0:16:22.580 --> 0:16:23.990 be like, this is a book, this is a book, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.370 this is a book. And I was like, leave me alone. 0:16:27.770 --> 0:16:28.369 I don't want to do it. 0:16:28.390 --> 0:16:33.470 It's too vulnerable. And, um, and finally, after a few 0:16:33.510 --> 0:16:35.610 months of collecting these notes, I emailed her and I 0:16:35.610 --> 0:16:39.290 was like, I think I'm starting a book. And then 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.380 what I did like a lunatic is I went through 0:16:43.420 --> 0:16:46.060 my phone. I copied all of the notes into a 0:16:46.100 --> 0:16:49.640 Google doc with their dates in bold and and then 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.030 the chunks, and then I printed it out, and I 0:16:53.110 --> 0:16:56.110 looked at it and was like, uh-oh. And then I 0:16:56.830 --> 0:17:01.370 started to think about what the big life events would be, 0:17:02.130 --> 0:17:06.010 and I started cutting up the pages and taping the 0:17:06.070 --> 0:17:10.159 notes by date under themes. So, I mean, it was 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.260 full of beautiful mind. I looked like I was having 0:17:12.300 --> 0:17:15.560 a nervous breakdown, and basically probably was. 0:17:15.580 --> 0:17:15.780 Strength. 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.320 And it, that was sort of the beginning for me 0:17:19.340 --> 0:17:22.030 because I had to visualize it. Like I'm a visual, 0:17:22.590 --> 0:17:24.690 I'm a visual artist as much as I am a 0:17:24.890 --> 0:17:29.209 person who loves words. And I had to kind of, 0:17:29.230 --> 0:17:32.909 I had to storyboard it basically like a director and 0:17:34.070 --> 0:17:37.050 then go, oh, okay. I think, I think maybe I 0:17:37.130 --> 0:17:41.800 know how to begin now. How did you do it 0:17:41.900 --> 0:17:44.240 in the first book versus how you do it by 0:17:44.260 --> 0:17:46.359 the fourth? Has it changed or is it the same? 0:17:47.020 --> 0:17:49.550 Well, so my first book is about, I rode my 0:17:49.609 --> 0:17:52.450 bicycle from Oregon to the bottom of South America. And 0:17:52.490 --> 0:17:55.210 it's like a, it's an adventure book, but it's also 0:17:55.250 --> 0:17:57.929 about me coming to terms with my sexuality and processing 0:17:58.369 --> 0:18:02.270 growing up evangelical, blah, blah, blah. And so what, what 0:18:02.350 --> 0:18:05.330 helps when you write like a road trip book is 0:18:05.430 --> 0:18:11.040 the road trip gives you structure. You started and you finished. 0:18:11.340 --> 0:18:15.699 And so then you can find the stories, the relevant stories. 0:18:16.100 --> 0:18:18.590 But I was beating myself up. So I rode my 0:18:18.650 --> 0:18:22.369 bike for a year and a half. And I journaled some, 0:18:22.410 --> 0:18:26.450 but I am a journaler. There's like different types of journalers. 0:18:26.730 --> 0:18:29.689 There's what I did today journalers. And there's what I 0:18:29.730 --> 0:18:33.120 learned this month journalers. It's like I journal with like 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.919 profound revelations to me. Like, oh, wow, I didn't realize 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:41.250 this is what this means. I don't do like Sophia 0:18:41.290 --> 0:18:43.340 wore a green top on Tuesday and I loved it. 0:18:43.369 --> 0:18:46.070 And it's like, I, some people do that and they 0:18:46.109 --> 0:18:49.419 have volumes of their life. It's like, I've seen it. 0:18:49.630 --> 0:18:51.790 Do you know who does that? Tom Shadiac. He has 0:18:52.550 --> 0:18:56.209 walls and I doubt he's writing about people's shirts, but 0:18:56.250 --> 0:19:00.390 because he's such a philosopher, but like, I'm jealous. I'm jealous. 0:19:00.609 --> 0:19:04.209 But what I learned in the process of writing that 0:19:04.250 --> 0:19:07.970 first book and the subsequent ones is actually daily journaling. 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.220 Isn't that important? Because what really matters, the reason a 0:19:12.460 --> 0:19:17.100 memoir matters, the reason anything matters is how we narrativize 0:19:17.140 --> 0:19:20.670 and make sense of our own lives. There's a scene 0:19:20.710 --> 0:19:24.270 in your book that, you know, comes pretty early, but 0:19:24.310 --> 0:19:28.510 it's when your mom is having kind of a breakdown 0:19:28.950 --> 0:19:32.190 and she brings you along while she's having a breakdown. 0:19:32.510 --> 0:19:35.530 And then years, 30 years later, you bring it up 0:19:35.670 --> 0:19:39.450 and she says, you weren't there. And it's like, Yes, 0:19:39.510 --> 0:19:42.320 I was. I was in that room. And it's... That 0:19:42.340 --> 0:19:47.369 was so profound to me because everyone has their life 0:19:47.609 --> 0:19:51.840 in their own head. and sometimes you're confronted with someone 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:57.240 else's experience yes and that can be a very painful 0:19:57.300 --> 0:20:01.420 thing because you've had we're all narrativizing our lives all 0:20:01.460 --> 0:20:03.660 day this is why i did that this is why 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.950 she did that this is why my mom did that 0:20:06.010 --> 0:20:08.800 like that is All we do all day is we're 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.540 meaning making machines and we're making meaning of the story 0:20:11.580 --> 0:20:13.760 that happened to us and the things that we've done. Yes. 0:20:14.700 --> 0:20:17.760 Like you probably were writing this book and you're like, oh, 0:20:17.820 --> 0:20:19.280 I think it's going to look like this. And then 0:20:19.300 --> 0:20:22.560 you get some distance from it and you're like, oh, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:24.460 this is what I was trying to say all along. 0:20:24.500 --> 0:20:27.260 And I didn't even know that until I was busy 0:20:27.340 --> 0:20:27.530 in it. 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.159 And I will say even for me, it really, it 0:20:32.180 --> 0:20:32.359 took me. 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:34.250 Until.... 0:20:36.830 --> 0:20:39.930 I was taking everything apart and then trying to figure 0:20:40.050 --> 0:20:44.530 out how I ended up there to finally connect some 0:20:44.550 --> 0:20:47.150 of the dots and go, oh my God, I can 0:20:47.210 --> 0:20:50.609 see the thing at eight. I can see the thing 0:20:50.630 --> 0:20:55.950 at 21. I can see the thing at, I don't 0:20:55.990 --> 0:20:58.690 know how, I don't, I don't even know how old 0:20:58.730 --> 0:20:59.669 I was in 2016, 34. And I can see the 0:20:59.690 --> 0:21:09.210 thing at 40. And they're all connected. They all have 0:21:09.270 --> 0:21:14.330 the same cord in them. And oh, my God. Oh, 0:21:14.390 --> 0:21:20.240 my God. You know, it's so, it's surreal. 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:24.439 Can't you feel, sorry to interrupt you. I just want 0:21:24.460 --> 0:21:26.080 to get this out because what you just said is 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.889 so true, which is, I definitely thought at 26 that 0:21:30.070 --> 0:21:34.220 I would know everything at 44. Definitely. I was like 44, like, 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.560 you know, but then you, you meet these adults that 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:40.820 don't seem like they have their together and they have 0:21:40.980 --> 0:21:45.060 almost like a crankiness. And I'm kind of convinced hearing 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.860 you go through your like portals of growth. It's like 0:21:49.380 --> 0:21:53.540 actually that humble spirit of, I am a work in progress. 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:57.400 And that's, that is not, that is a dot, dot, 0:21:57.420 --> 0:22:02.419 dot forever. And that is just a posture of living 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:07.760 that is so different than I am a little collection 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.969 of grievances. And this is who I am as an adult. 0:22:11.010 --> 0:22:14.609 And the world didn't shape itself to conform to my will. 0:22:14.710 --> 0:22:17.050 And I'm pissed. And I just feel like we've all 0:22:17.130 --> 0:22:20.290 known adults like that. And whether they know it or not, 0:22:20.330 --> 0:22:24.540 they might be fabulously wealthy and parents and driving their 0:22:24.619 --> 0:22:29.940 Tesla truck so proud. And they... are actually just fighting 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:34.359 with the fact that they stopped growing. Yeah. And I 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.240 just see that twinkle in your eye that you are like, 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:42.820 and the twinkle is vulnerability, is tinged with fear. It's 0:22:42.859 --> 0:22:46.739 just like, God, I'm stepping into a new place. I'm 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:50.369 stepping into a new place. And that is growth, and 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.530 that is beautiful. But it's like, that also is what 0:22:53.590 --> 0:22:58.960 youth feels like. That's what young people feel like. Yeah. 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:01.919 They're not so bogged down by what they should be doing. 0:23:01.980 --> 0:23:05.330 They're just doing. Yeah. And there is something I think 0:23:06.369 --> 0:23:11.270 to that, you know, my, my entire life. I mean, my, 0:23:11.369 --> 0:23:16.190 my first tattoo, literally the, the, the word means eternal student. 0:23:17.130 --> 0:23:20.250 My whole life, my goal has been to keep learning 0:23:21.310 --> 0:23:23.950 and that doesn't, you know, mean I've always done it right. 0:23:24.170 --> 0:23:28.210 And I, I realized in conjunction with learning, I, I 0:23:28.270 --> 0:23:33.150 actually need to constantly be unlearning, unlearning shame, unlearning expectation, 0:23:33.790 --> 0:23:38.820 unlearning this idea that when you've said you're going to 0:23:38.859 --> 0:23:40.920 do something, you have to do it forever. No, you don't. 0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:43.160 You're allowed to leave the party if you're not having 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:46.060 a good time. Literally, what else is the point of 0:23:46.140 --> 0:23:53.260 being alive? But when you talk about delight, there's the 0:23:53.300 --> 0:23:55.180 bit in that Mary Oliver poem where she talks about 0:23:55.220 --> 0:23:59.580 being a bride of delight. And I... I love that 0:23:59.619 --> 0:24:03.820 this salty older woman felt that way her whole life. 0:24:04.060 --> 0:24:10.159 And I want to hold that. And I think the 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:14.020 most sort of interesting part of this journey, you know, 0:24:14.060 --> 0:24:18.840 now having one memoir under my belt is it gave 0:24:18.900 --> 0:24:22.470 me back to myself in a way. And it made 0:24:22.510 --> 0:24:26.040 me confront some things. Like that's when we met was working, 0:24:26.660 --> 0:24:29.679 working on behalf of some people, of a group of 0:24:29.740 --> 0:24:34.020 incredible people halfway around the world that couldn't get the 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:40.460 attention they deserved because of the hierarchies of grotesque assigned 0:24:40.540 --> 0:24:43.720 value in our society that we've all said that to 0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:48.010 spiritually forever. And we said, okay, we're going to be 0:24:48.050 --> 0:24:52.570 helpful here. And yeah, I had to sort of have 0:24:52.609 --> 0:24:55.310 this moment where I went, oh, I love that my 0:24:55.390 --> 0:24:57.410 natural spirit is being an advocate. 0:24:58.630 --> 0:25:00.730 Well, and you write about that, which I love is like, 0:25:01.770 --> 0:25:04.010 and this is a trap that people get in. You 0:25:04.070 --> 0:25:07.770 got pulled into this world where that's an actress and 0:25:08.230 --> 0:25:11.430 there are people all over the world. They're like, she's 0:25:11.470 --> 0:25:15.160