1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Fryne. This episode's coming out on 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: Christmas Day twenty twenty three, so we are talking about 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: something that happens on a Christmas Day in history. That 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: is the nineteen fifty removal of the Stone of Scoon, 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: also called the Stone of Destiny, from Westminster Abbey. We've 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: also gotten some requests for an episode on the stone, 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: including from listeners Stephanie and Megan. And also it was 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: of course in the news earlier this year because it 11 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: was part of the coronation chair used for the crowning 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: of King Charles the Third. On top of all of that, 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: it almost made an appearance in one of this year's 14 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: installments of Unearthed because of some research that we will 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: eventually get to in this episode. Depending on whose perspective 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: you are reading, this was either a wanton theft, maybe 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: even sacrilegious or treasonous, or it was the justified liberation 18 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: of an artifact that England had stolen from Scotland. I 19 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: used the word heist in the episode title because there 20 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: are also aspects of it that feel kind of like 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: a heist movie, and there is in fact a movie 22 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: of this. It came out in two thousand and eight 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: and I did watch it over the weekend. So we're 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: going to start by talking about some of the background 25 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: on the stone itself. This is tricky to piece together 26 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: because there are multiple contradictory mythical origins for the stone, 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: and early accounts are simultaneously vague and contradictory. The stone 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: has even had a whole list of different names, so 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: the Stone of Schoon, the Coronation Stone, the Stone of Destiny, 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: the Stone of Scotland, and the Fatal Stone among them. 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: That last one comes from an obsolete use of fatal 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: that meant dec read by fate or destined. That sense 33 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: of the word fatal was declining by the sixteenth and 34 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: seventeenth centuries. The two most frequently used names today are 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: probably the Stone of Scoon and the Stone of Destiny. 36 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: Scoon is a town in the historic county of Perthshire, Scotland. 37 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: Now it is in the Perth and kin Ross Council area. 38 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: For centuries, Scotland's kings were inaugurated on a hill outside 39 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: of Scoon, Abbey sitting on the stone. So Stone of 40 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: Scoon is a pretty straightforward descriptor of the stone and 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: its meaning. That name first appeared in writing in the 42 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: thirteen twenty seven Lanercost Chronicle. The name Stone of Destiny 43 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: was first coined in the sixteenth century, and it was 44 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: in fairly common use by the eighteenth century, but it 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: became a lot more popular after the stone's nineteen fifty 46 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 1: removal from Westminster Abbey. Among other things. Ian Hamilton, who 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: was one of the people involved with that removal, published 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: a book about it in nineteen fifty three titled No 49 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: Stone Unturned The Story of the Stone of Destiny. But 50 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: this name might actually stem from conflation with another stone, 51 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: the Leofoil, which is a standing stone on the hill 52 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: of Terra in Ireland that is also called the Stone 53 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: of Destiny. So Terra in County Meath is the seat 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: of the High Kings of Ireland and the Leofoil has 55 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: its own mythological origins, involving being brought to Irelands by 56 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: the semi divine tu Adidanan, and according to legend, the 57 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: Leofoil would cry out or roar or sing when the 58 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: Rightful King of Ireland placed his foot on it, So 59 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: there are some accounts that just confused these two stones. 60 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: They described Scotland's Stone of Destiny as the one that screams, 61 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: for example. But there are also accounts from the thirteenth 62 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: and fourteenth centuries that claim that the Stone of Scoon 63 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: is the Leofoyil, that it was moved to Dalriata for 64 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: the coronation of Fergus McGirk, and then Kinade MacAlpin, king 65 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: of the Scots and the Picts, and Dalriada moved it 66 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: to Scoon in the ninth century. This would mean the 67 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: stone now on the Hill of Tara is a replacement. 68 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: Kenad McAlpin is also called Kenneth the First or Kenneth MacAlpin, 69 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: and was the first king to rule over most of 70 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: what's now considered Scotland, so he is generally recognized as 71 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: the first King of Scotland. To further complicate things, there 72 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: are also two more mythical origins for the Stone of Scoon, 73 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: one probably Scottish and the other probably English, but both 74 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: of them involved this stone arriving in Scotland by way 75 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: of Ireland. So in the version that probably originated in Scotland, 76 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: Scota the daughter of a pharaoh brought the stone to 77 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: Scotland from Egypt, traveling through Ireland along the way. According 78 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: to this legend, Scota was married to a Greek king 79 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: named Gethlos, so Scota is the namesake of Scotland and 80 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: the Scots, and Giethlos is the namesake of the Gaels 81 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: and the Scots Gallic language. The earliest written account of 82 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: this story is Baldrid Bissett's Processes in thirteen oh one. 83 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: The story that is most likely to be English in 84 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: origin is that the Stone of Schoon was the stone 85 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: pillow that the biblical figure of Jacob rested his head 86 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: on when he dreamed of a latter stretching up to 87 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: heaven with angels ascending and descending. In this version, the 88 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: stone was brought to Scotland from the Holy Land, again 89 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: by way of Ireland. The exact origins of both of 90 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: these stories aren't really clear, but there's some suggestion that 91 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: the one involving Jacob's stone pillow came from the monks 92 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: at Westminster after the stone had been taken from Scotland 93 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: to England. It was first recorded in writing by William Risheinger, Benedictine, 94 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: monk at Saint Albans in his chronicle, which dates back 95 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: to the thirteen twenties. But geological research on the stone 96 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: suggests that it was not brought to Scoon from somewhere else. 97 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: It was quarried locally. Its textures, colors and minerals are 98 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: similar to stone from the Schoon's Sandstone formation, which dates 99 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: back to the Devonian Epoch roughly four hundred million years ago, 100 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: so while the stone itself is hundreds of millions of 101 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: years old, it was quarried a lot more recently. There 102 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: are obvious tool marks suggesting how it was shaped and finished. 103 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: It's possible that this was always meant as a seat 104 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: for inaugurating Scotland's kings, but it may have originally been 105 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 1: meant to be part of a building, like maybe a church, 106 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: or it may have actually been used as part of 107 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: a building and then later repurposed. Today, the Stone of 108 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: Scoon is an oblong block measuring twenty six inches by 109 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: sixteen inches by eleven inches that's sixty six centimeters by 110 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: forty one centimeters by twenty eight centimeters. There's an iron 111 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: ring on each end, connected to an iron staple via 112 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: sort of a twisted figure eight link. These iron elements 113 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: date back to the medieval period, but we don't know 114 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: exactly when they were put into the stone. The first 115 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: written mention of them as from eighteen twenty three, but 116 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: they were definitely there before that. One common idea is 117 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: that the English put them on the stone while it 118 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: was still in Scotland, so they could carry it suspended 119 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: from a pole, but there would have been a much 120 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: easier way to carry it, like cart or a wheelbarrow. 121 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: Another possibility is that they were added after the stone 122 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: was taken to England, and that they were meant to 123 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: help lower the stone into the coronation chair, or perhaps 124 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: they were meant to fasten the stone to something else 125 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: so that it could not be removed from the chair. 126 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: To add to all the things we don't know, we 127 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: don't entirely know what the stone looked like before it 128 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: was taken from Scotland. Some early descriptions of the stone 129 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: actually describe it as marble, not sandstone. One such account 130 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: as Baldred Visits thirteen oh one Processus, which calls it 131 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: the quote Royal Seat of Marble. Medieval accounts are pretty 132 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: consistent in their descriptions of the stone as made from marble, 133 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: but these accounts were mostly written by people who had 134 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: never personally seen it, so we're picking up that marble 135 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: descriptor from other earlier work. There are also accounts that 136 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: describe it as basalts or Meteoric in origin, and a 137 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: lot of these early descriptions are also just really vague. 138 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: They don't give a lot of specifics about what the 139 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: stone looked like or what it was like for the 140 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: king to sit on it. Some early illustrations of the 141 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: Stone of Schoon show it as part of a throne, 142 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: or as an entire throne carved out of stone. That 143 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: seems to have come from the assumption that if it 144 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: was being used as part of a coronation, it must 145 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: have been shaped like a throne. In the fourteenth century, 146 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: sources also started recording a prophecy associated with the stone, 147 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: usually written in a couplet in Latin. We are not 148 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: going to try to mangle that Latin, but it roughly 149 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: translates to wherever the stone goes, Fate has decreed that 150 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: the Scots shall reign. And after we take a quick 151 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: sponsor break, we're going to talk about how this stone 152 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: was taken from Scotland to England. A series of Scottish 153 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: kings followed Kenneth the First, and according to tradition, they 154 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: were all inaugurated at Scoon Abbey on the Stone of Scoon. 155 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm saying according to tradition because in a lot of 156 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: cases it's just not documented, and that is also true 157 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: a lot of the English monarchs, and whether or not 158 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: they sat on the coronation share while they were being crowned, 159 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: I think this just wasn't something that people thought needed 160 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: to be written down as part of the account. The 161 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 1: earliest written description not just of the stone's existence but 162 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,439 Speaker 1: also of its use in this way is in reference 163 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,559 Speaker 1: to the inauguration of King Alexander the Third of Scotland 164 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: in twelve forty nine. Alexander the Third died in March 165 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: of twelve eighty six, either he fell off his horse 166 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: or his horse fell off a cliff. He had only 167 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: one living descendant, and that was his granddaughter, Margaret. Margaret's 168 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: father was Eric, the second King of Norway, and Margaret 169 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: was known as the Maid of Norway. There were already 170 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: power struggles going on between England and Scotland. Alexander the 171 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: Third had become king at the age of only seven 172 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: and his first wife, Margaret, had been the daughter of 173 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: England's King Henry the third. Henry had tried to get 174 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: Alexander to recognize him as sovereign of Scotland, and Alexander 175 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: had refused. This all happened alongside an ongoing rivalry among 176 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: pro and anti English factions in Scotland, and at one 177 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: point Alexander was even taken captive. So it's not really 178 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: surprising that when a marriage was arranged for Margaret made 179 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: of Norway, it was to King Edward, the first of 180 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: England's son also called Edward, although it was under terms 181 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: that would maintain Scotland as a separate kingdom. However, when 182 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: Margaret was traveling from Norway to England in twelve ninety, 183 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: she got sick and died at the age of about seven, 184 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: without ever having having been formally inaugurated as Scotland's queen. 185 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: This sparked a succession crisis, with thirteen different claimants to 186 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: the throne. King Edward the First, also known as Edward 187 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: Longshanks and later as the Hammer of Scotland, established himself 188 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: as a judicator to sort out all of these claims 189 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: during proceedings that took more than a year, it became 190 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: clear that whoever became the next King of Scotland would 191 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: be expected to be subservient to England. Ultimately, John de 192 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: Balliol was selected as king. His paternal grandfather was David, 193 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: Earl of Huntington, brother of Scottish King's Malcolm the fourth 194 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: and William the First. Edward the First confirmed the decision 195 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: on November seventeenth, twelve ninety two, and then John was 196 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: inaugurated at Schoon on November thirtieth. On December twenty sixth, 197 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: he swore homage to Edward the First. Some in Scotland 198 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: were outraged over an English king's involvement in selecting the 199 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: next King of Scotland and in this whole swearing homage 200 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: to England. A Scottish Council of War was established to 201 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: try to mitigate John's deference to Edward. Then, when England 202 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: asked Scotland for military aid to support a campaign against 203 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: Gascony in what's now southwestern France, Scotland instead made an 204 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: agreement with the French, forming what came to be known 205 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: as the Old Alliance. In twelve ninety five. If England 206 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: invaded France, Scotland would invade England and France would also 207 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: defend Scotland against English advances. This became the start of 208 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: the Scottish Wars of Independence, also called the Anglo Scottish Wars. 209 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: England invaded Scotland in twelve ninety six, sacking the town 210 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: of Berwick upon Tweed and defeating Scotland at the Battle 211 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: of Dunbar. After the Battle of Dunbar, Edward's troops removed 212 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: the Stone of Scoon and took it to England, probably 213 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: as they were returning home after the battles. It was 214 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: most likely taken over Lands because of the risk of 215 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: it being lost if there were a shipwreck. Not long after, 216 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: Edward ordered a chair to be built to house the 217 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: Stone of Schoon, with the stone functioning as its seat. 218 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: The initial plan was to have this chair cast in bronze, 219 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: but that was abandoned, probably because it would have been 220 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: very expensive and Edward needed the money for his ongoing 221 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: military campaigns. In the end, he commissioned the carving of 222 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: a wooden chair in twelve ninety seven and it was 223 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: finished in thirteen hundred. That might seem surprisingly long given 224 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: what the chair looks like today, but at the time 225 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: it was covered in ornate gilt decorations and colored glass 226 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: which are no longer visible. Although the chair was made 227 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: to house the stone of Schoon, the stone was also 228 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: reshaped somewhat to fit the chair, and as we said earlier, 229 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: this may have been when the iron rings were added 230 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: to it for the purpose of lifting it in and 231 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: out of the seat portion of the chair. Once it 232 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: was finished, the chair with the stone of Spoon as 233 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: its seat, was presented to the shrine of Edward the 234 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: Confessor at Westminster Abbey, so it sometimes also called Saint 235 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: Edward's Chair. We should take a minute to talk about 236 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: some of the symbolism involved in this. The most straightforward 237 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: part is that after defeating Scotland, Edward the First had 238 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: taken the stone that was used to inaugurate Scottish kings, 239 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: and he had put it into a chair that he 240 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: could sit on. That was an obvious insult, and it 241 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: was also meant to reinforce Scotland's place relative to England, 242 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: but this also served as a symbol of England's right 243 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: to rule over Scotland and establishing that England's king was 244 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: also King of Scotland. Placing the chair in Westminster Abbey 245 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: in the shrine of the King, who was at the 246 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: time regarded as the patron saint of England, gave the 247 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: chair a religious significance, and being home to the chair 248 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: also elevated the significance of Westminster Abbey. So you may 249 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: have noticed earlier that when we talked about the origin 250 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: stories for the Stone of Schoon, the first written record 251 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: of each story was from the early thirteen hundreds. This 252 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: was also related. Each of these nations was using the 253 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: stone's origin story to reinforce an idea about itself, England 254 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: that it had the right to rule Scotland and Scotland 255 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: that it was an independent nation. Scotland had also taken 256 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: this matter to Pope Boniface the Eighth, who issued a 257 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: papal bull ordering Edward to explain England's claims over Scotland, 258 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: and both of these stories were part of the two 259 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: nations respective cases. Scotland started demanding the return of the 260 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: stone during its ongoing fight for independence in the fourteenth century, 261 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: including in thirteen twenty four during negotiations for Edward to 262 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: recognize Robert the Bruce as King of an independent Scotland. 263 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: One of the interpretations of that Latin couplet that we 264 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: talked about earlier became that Scott's would rule wherever the 265 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: stone was, meaning that Scotland would one day rule England. 266 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: There is a whole history involving the Scottish Wars of 267 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: Independence that we're not really getting into here, including everything 268 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: involving William Wallace. But in thirteen twenty Scotland issued a 269 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: declaration of are Growth, asking Pope John the twenty second 270 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: to recognize Scottish independence. The Pope encouraged English King Edward 271 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: the Second to work toward peace, and Scotland's independent was 272 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: recognized in thirteen twenty eight, but the Stone of Scoon 273 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: remained in England. Although the coronation chair is believed to 274 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: have been used in the coronation of every English monarch 275 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: after Edward the First had it built, it is not 276 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: specifically mentioned until the coronation of Henry the Fourth and 277 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: thirteen ninety nine, skipping massively ahead. The next time a 278 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: Scottish king sat on the Stone of Schoon was when 279 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: James the sixth of Scotland also became James the First 280 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: of England in sixteen oh three. People who believed that 281 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: Latin couplet was prophetic probably felt very vindicated. Then in 282 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: seventeen oh seven, the Acts of Union united the two 283 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: nations into one country. A couple of other moments from 284 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: the stone's history after this point until it was removed 285 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifty highst The only time the stone 286 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: is known to have left Westminster Abbey was in sixteen 287 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: fifty seven, when Oliver Cromwell was reinstalled as Lord Protector 288 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: in Westminster Hall. By eighteen sixty eight, a visible crack 289 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: had developed in the stone, probably following a natural fault line. 290 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: You can see this crack in the first known photograph 291 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: of the stone, which was taken that year. Samples were 292 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: collected from the stone for study in the nineteenth century, 293 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: including in advance of the coronation of Queen Victoria. In 294 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty four, British Army intelligence intercepted a plot by 295 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 1: the Irish Fenian Brotherhood to steal the stone, and in 296 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,719 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen the Coronation share was damaged when suffragists placed 297 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: a bomb under it. By the nineteenth century, a Scottish 298 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: nationalist movement had started to coalesce as people advocated that 299 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: autonomy or independence be returned to Scotland, and that is 300 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: where we finally get to the heist, which will do 301 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: after a sponsor break. The Support for Scottish home rule 302 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: grew after World War One, and in the nineteen thirties, 303 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: Scottish nationalist and Stonemason Robert Gray also called Bertie, came 304 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: up with a plan to swap the stone of Schoon 305 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: for a replica he had made. He reportedly made a 306 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: special wheelchair with space for the stone to go in 307 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: and practiced using it. This plan doesn't ever seem to 308 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: have really gone farther than that. Also, the stone weighs 309 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty six pounds or one hundred and 310 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: fifty two kilograms, so I think this idea also had 311 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: some logistical problems, going from you know, not using a 312 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: wheelchair to using one that had an additional three hundred 313 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: and thirty six pounds in the seat. Support for Scottish 314 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: self government grew again after World War Two. John McCormick, 315 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: lord Rector of the University of Glasgow, established the Scottish 316 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: Convention to camp paying for home rule, including drafting a 317 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: petition called the Scottish Covenant that garnered about two million signatures. 318 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: McCormick and Robert Gray were two of the people who 319 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: provided funding for the Stone of schoon Heist. William Craig, 320 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: president of Glasgow University Union, also helped Planet, but did 321 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: not personally take part. Instead, there were four students from 322 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 1: Glasgow University, Ian Hamilton, Kay Matheson, Gavin Vernon and Alan Stewart. 323 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: Stuart was the youngest of them at the age of 324 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: twenty and Matheson was twenty one. Hamilton, who was twenty five, 325 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: had served in the Royal Air Force, and Vernon, who 326 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: was twenty four, had served in the Royal Corps of 327 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: Signals before going to the university. So while these four 328 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: folks are often described as college students, they were not teenagers. 329 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: Hamilton made a trip to London in November to case 330 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: Westminster Abbey, and then Hamilton, Matheson, Vernon and Stuart all 331 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: left Glasgow for London on December twenty second. They were 332 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: in two Ford Anglias, one belonging to Stuart and the 333 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: other rented. The trip took eighteen hours, which is much 334 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: longer than it likely would take today because they were 335 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,439 Speaker 1: mostly on secondary roads that were not being plowed or 336 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: otherwise treated for ice and snow. The plan was simple. 337 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: One of them would hide inside Westminster Abbey until it 338 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: had closed for the night, and then let the other 339 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: ones in. They would take the stone out of the 340 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: coronation chair, put it in one of the cars, and leave. 341 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: Things did not go according to plan, though. On December 342 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: twenty third, Hamilton hid inside Westminster Abbey, but a night 343 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: watchman caught him. Hamilton told the guard that he had 344 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: been locked in by accident, and the watchman, who seems 345 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 1: to have thought he was down on his luck and 346 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: looking for shelter, offered him some money before escorting him out. 347 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: On Christmas Eve, Vernon and Stewart tried the same thing, 348 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: but they were also caught, so in the very early 349 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: hours of Christmas morning, the four of them returned to 350 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: Westminster Abbey and waved outside with one of the cars, 351 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: while the others used a crowbar to force open a 352 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: door to Poet's Corner. According to an account written by Matheson, 353 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: there was some brief confusion when they realized they had 354 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: accidentally left that crowbar back in the car. Most of 355 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: the abbey's doors were made of oak, but this one 356 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: had been damaged during the war and replaced with pine. 357 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: This made the door relatively less sturdy than the other ones, 358 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: but the participants described this break in as incredibly loud. 359 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: It probably seemed even louder considering that they were trying 360 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: to be quiet. Once they were inside, they made their 361 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: way to the coronation chair and again used the crowbar 362 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: to remove one of the panels so that they could 363 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: get the stone. They damaged the chair in the process. 364 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: They had planned to put the stone onto one of 365 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: their coats that was on the floor and then drag 366 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: it out of the abbey, but either when the stone 367 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: hit the floor or when they pulled on one of 368 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: the rings, it broke along the existing crack. So Hamilton 369 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: picked up the smaller piece, which weighed about ninety pounds 370 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: or forty kilograms, and took that out to the car. 371 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,239 Speaker 1: As he was getting to the car, Hamilton saw a 372 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: police officer, so he threw the piece of the stone 373 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: inside the car, put his coat over it, and started 374 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: making out with Matheson. When the officer interrupted them, they 375 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: told him that they had just gotten to town and 376 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: could not find a hotel room. The officer told them 377 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: they had to move along, and they drove away. Vernon 378 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: and Stewart were still in the abbey, and they thought 379 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: Hamilton and Matheson had fled, so they left on foot, 380 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: but by that point Hamilton had realized he'd lost the 381 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: keys to the other car somewhere and was on his 382 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,119 Speaker 1: way back. Once Matheson got back into the abbey, he 383 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: managed to find the keys on the floor near the door. 384 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: He also managed to haul the other piece of the stone, 385 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: which weighed roughly two hundred and fifty pounds that's one 386 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: hundred and thirteen kilograms, out of the abbey and into 387 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: the trunk of the other car. I marvel at his strength. 388 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: On his way out of London, he spotted Vernon and Stuart. 389 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: He picked up Stuart, but the stone was so heavy 390 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: they thought the car wouldn't make it with all of 391 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: them inside, so Vernon went home by train. Matheson, traveling 392 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: by herself, made her way back to Scotland without much trouble, 393 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: although I did find one account that said that she 394 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: was pulling away from the stoplight outside Herod's Department store 395 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: and the stone fell out of the trunk of the car, 396 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: or as they call it in England, the boot. She 397 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: noticed that this was happening. If this really it does 398 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: sound very dramatic, but she heard it fall put it 399 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: back in the car and then later left the piece 400 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: of stone at a friend's house. Hamilton and the other 401 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: men ultimately made their way to a field in Kent 402 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: where they covered up the stone in soil and vegetation, 403 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: and then they started making their way back to Scotland 404 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: as well. The theft of the stone and the damage 405 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: to the coronation share were discovered at about six fifteen 406 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: am Christmas morning. The Dean of Westminster described this as 407 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: a sacrilege, and in general the sense in England was 408 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: that this whole theft was shocking and appalling, and responses 409 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: in Scotland were mixed. Some of the more radical Scottish 410 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: nationalists were excited about it, but even among nationalists a 411 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 1: lot of people were more tempered. They thought the stone 412 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: belonged in Scotland, but that it should not have been 413 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: stolen that way. Of course, there were also people who 414 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: were very critical. In the words of a piece in 415 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: the Glasgow Herald quote, pilfering from a church on Christmas 416 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: Eve or Christmas Day is not an achievement to be 417 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: proud of. None of them even knew it had been 418 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: broken in the process. It was immediately taken for granted 419 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: that the stone had been stolen by Scottish nationalists, and 420 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: words spread about the suspicious persons caught in the abbey 421 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: on December twenty third and twenty fourth and the couple 422 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: with the Ford Anglia. In the early hours of the 423 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: twenty fifth, authorities started a search for the stone and 424 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: closed the borders to Scotland and Wales for the first 425 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: time in centuries. A reward of two thousand pounds was 426 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: offered for the stone's return. The plan had been to 427 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: leave the larger piece of the stone in Kent until 428 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 1: the furor died down, but Hamilton went back for it 429 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: within about a week. Over the years, he gave multiple 430 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: reasons for doing this, including worrying that the stone could 431 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: be damaged by the elements since it had been indoors 432 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: for centuries, worrying that it would be lost somehow, and 433 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: realizing that a lot of people in Scotland were concerned 434 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: about where it was. So he Alan Stewart and two 435 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: others went to Kent to retrieve it on New Year's Eve. 436 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,880 Speaker 1: This also did not go according to plan. When they 437 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: got there, a group of Irish travelers were encamped over 438 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: the spot where Hamilton had left the stone. Hamilton and 439 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: the others convinced them to move so that they could 440 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: get the stone and take it back to Scotland. To 441 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 1: be clear, we don't know if they let on that 442 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: this important artifact was underneath their camp or not. It's 443 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: all a little bit fuzzy. Yeah. Everything that we have 444 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: about these details comes from a written by the people involved, 445 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: some of them intentionally written in a pretty dramatic cinemagraphic 446 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: almost way in the In the movie version, there is 447 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: a very stirring speech about how you know travelers are 448 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: discriminated against and so are Scots, and we need to 449 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: get this stone out from underneath you, in pretty colorful language. 450 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: To move on. Hamilton took the larger part to members 451 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,479 Speaker 1: of the Scottish Covenant Association who hid it under a 452 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: floor of a factory in bonnie Bridge, and then later 453 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: it was moved to Sterling. Eventually both pieces of the 454 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,959 Speaker 1: stone were taken to Robert Gray to try to repair it. 455 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: He did this using three metal dowels and Portland cement, 456 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: and you can still see this repair today. There are 457 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: rumors that the dowels were hollow and that he hit 458 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: a message in one of them. Eventually, the Scottish Covenant 459 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: Association decided to return the stone to England. Various different 460 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: reasons have been given for this, but they all sort 461 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: of boiled down to feeling like they had made their 462 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: point and they were thinking that continuing to try to 463 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: hide the stone in Scotland was a risk. By this point, 464 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: Hamilton was facing suspicion for his involvement, among other things. 465 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: Authorities had gotten access to library records from the university 466 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: and found that he had checked out every book they 467 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: had about the Stone of Scoon. The stone was left 468 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,400 Speaker 1: at our Broth Abbey, where the Declaration of Our Broth 469 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: had been drafted in thirteen twenty. Gobby custodian James Wishart 470 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: found it on April eleventh, nineteen fifty one, draped in 471 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: a Scottish flag. While officials wanted to get the stone 472 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: back to England as soon as possible, they also did 473 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: not want to make a big deal about it, and 474 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: they also wanted to prevent the possibility of it being 475 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: stolen again on the way, so the stone's return was 476 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: simultaneously high security and low key. A limousine and a 477 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: jaguar meant to serve as place lease escort, were driven 478 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: to the abbey, but the stone was loaded into the jaguar, 479 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: not the limousine. As a crowd gathered around the limousine, 480 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: the jaguar left with the stone, and then the limousine 481 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: left after that, at a high speed and going in 482 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: a different direction. Once the stone was back in England, 483 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: it was initially placed in a vault for security reasons, 484 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: and then it was returned to the coronation chair for 485 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: the nineteen fifty three coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. There 486 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: were some other attempts to steal the stone after this. 487 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty seven, John Patrick O'Byrne set off the 488 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: alarm trying to remove the stone from the chair because 489 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: unlike in nineteen fifty there was an alarm now. He 490 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: was convicted of larceny. In nineteen seventy four, David Carmichael 491 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: Stewart plans to remove the stone using a canvas sling 492 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: and a homemade cart, but the cart collapsed when he 493 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: put the stone into it. He was arrested, but charges 494 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: against him were later dropped. In the idea of returning 495 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: this tone to Scotland was renewed in the nineteen nineties, 496 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: thanks in part to the publication of a new book 497 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: by Ian Hamilton and increasing calls for Scottish home rule. 498 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: Scottish campaigner Robbie the pict also attempted a series of 499 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: legal actions, including reporting the twelve ninety six theft of 500 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: the stone to the police and going up the chain 501 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: from there, including to prosecutors, the Home Secretary, the Prime Minister, 502 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: the Dean of Westminster, and Queen Elizabeth the iond. On 503 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: July third, nineteen ninety six, Prime Minister John Major made 504 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: a statement to the House of Commons that began quote 505 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: the Stone of Destiny as the most ancient symbol of 506 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: Scottish kingship. It was used in the coronation of Scottish 507 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: kings until the end of the thirteenth century, exactly seven 508 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: hundred years ago. In twelve ninety six, King Edward the 509 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: First brought it from Scotland and housed it in Westminster Abbey. 510 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: It remains the property of the Crown. I wish to 511 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: inform the House that, on the advice of Her Majesty's ministers, 512 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: the Queen has agreed that the stone should be returned 513 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: to Scotland. The stone will of course be taken to 514 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: Westminster Abbey to play its traditional role in the coronation 515 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: ceremonies of future sovereigns of the United Kingdom. Their response 516 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: was again mixed. Some Scottish members of Parliament praised the 517 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: return of the stone, but this was not unanimous. For example, 518 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: Sir David Steele stated that the people of Scotland wanted 519 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: quote not just the symbol, but the substance, the substance 520 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: of the return of democratic control over our internal affairs 521 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: in Scotland. May I tell the Prime Minister before he 522 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: comes north on Friday that I hope he will not 523 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: continue to insult us by suggesting that although other countries 524 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: can organize decentralized government, most recently in Spain since the 525 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,239 Speaker 1: death of Franco we are somehow incapable of doing the 526 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: same in the United Kingdom. And there were people in 527 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: England who were deeply critical of the decision, including the 528 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: Dean and Chapter of Westminster that's the ecclesiast bastical governing 529 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: body of Westminster Abbey. The Dean and Chapter had not 530 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: been consulted on this decision. They did not agree with 531 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: it at all. Queen Elizabeth the Second issued a royal 532 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: warrant on the return of the stone on November twelfth, 533 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six, and a team from Historic Scotland arrived 534 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: for the stone two days later. As with the Return 535 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: of the Stone in nineteen fifty one, this was both 536 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: low key and high security on England's end, done under 537 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: cover of night, with minimal fanfare, but with emphatically disapproving 538 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: expressions on the faces of the Dean and Chapter of Westminster. 539 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: The stone again traveled over land with an army escort, 540 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: crossing the border into Scotland at eleven oh five am 541 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: on November fifteenth. There was more fanfare in Scotland, including 542 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: a land rover with a clear enclosure so people could 543 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: see the stone inside, and a pipe band playing a 544 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: march called the Return of the Stone. Scoon Abbey is 545 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: no longer standing and Scoon Palace is privately owned, so 546 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: the Stone of Schoon was taken to Edmurrag Castle, where 547 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,959 Speaker 1: it arrived on November thirtieth. The stone was given the 548 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: same welcome usually afforded to a visiting head of state, 549 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: including a twenty one gun salute that was placed in 550 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,239 Speaker 1: the Crown Room along with the Crown jewels known as 551 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,719 Speaker 1: the Honors of Scotland. Today, the stone is under the 552 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: Care of Historic Environment Scotland on behalf of the commissioners 553 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: for the safeguarding of the regalia. There are plans for 554 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: it to be moved to a new museum in Perth 555 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: City Hall in twenty twenty four. A devolved Scottish Government 556 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: was established in nineteen ninety nine, giving Scotland its own parliament, 557 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: so the Scottish and the UK governments each have specific 558 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: responsibilities within Scotland. Of course, the idea of Scottish independence 559 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: is still around. A twenty fourteen referendum asked the question 560 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: should Scotland be an independent country? Two million people voted 561 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: no and one point six million voted yes. There was 562 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: another surge in interest to the twenty nineteen Brexit debates. 563 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: Scotland and Northern Ireland both voted remain, while the total 564 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: vote was for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union. 565 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 1: Earlier this year, a high resolution three D model was 566 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: made of the stone as part of preparations to send 567 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: it to Westminster Abbey for the coronation of Charles the Third. 568 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: This revealed previously unrecorded markings that resemble Roman numerals, plus 569 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: a lot of marks from wear and tear and the 570 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: tooling that was done to shape the stone earlier in 571 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: its history. X ray fluorescence analysis suggested that the stone 572 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: was in contact with something made of bronze or brass 573 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: earlier in its history, and there are also traces of 574 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: gypsum plaster, possibly from a cast that was made of 575 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: it at some point. Also this year, in November, members 576 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: of the environmental activist group This Is Rigged attacked the 577 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: stone and vandalized its display case. Three people were charged 578 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: with malicious mischief and breach of peace. Course just happened, 579 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 1: and so I'm presuming more will have happened with that 580 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: by the time this episode comes out. None of the 581 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 1: people who were involved with the removal of the stone 582 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty were ever tried. At the time, authorities 583 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: said that they knew who the perpetrators were, but that 584 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: it would not be in the national interest to prosecute them. All. 585 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: Four of the people who were part of the Christmas 586 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: Heist have since died, Gavin Vernon in two thousand and four, 587 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: Ky Matheson in twenty thirteen, Alan Stewart in twenty nineteen, 588 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 1: and Ian Hamilton in twenty twenty two. Also, there are 589 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of conspiracy theories about the Stone of Schoon 590 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: one started circulating in the nineteen seventies, claiming that the 591 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: stone that was sent to England in nineteen fifty one 592 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: was a fake, perhaps a replica made by Robert Gray. 593 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: Gray did make at least one replica of the stone, 594 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: which was left in Parliament Square in Edinburgh in nineteen 595 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: sixty five, but Gray's replicas were measurably different from the 596 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: Stone of Scoo, and the one that was returned in 597 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty one has a visible repair that matches up 598 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: with the damage that participants described in the nineteen fifties. 599 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: The other conspiracy theory has been around since at least 600 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty one, and this one claims that Edward the 601 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: First's army took the wrong stone from Scoon after the 602 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: Battle of Dunbar in the thirteenth century. This conspiracy theory 603 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 1: has been used to explain why the stone's various origin 604 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,919 Speaker 1: stories describe it as coming from outside of Scotland world, 605 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: while the stone itself seems to have been quarried locally, 606 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: but none of the medieval accounts of the stone suggest 607 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: any kind of switcheroo. This is really an idea that 608 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: seems to have first come about almost five hundred years later. 609 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: Various other large stones have been cited as the quote 610 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: real stone, including one found at Dunzenine Hill, traditionally identified 611 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: as the site of Macbeth's castle in eighteen eighty. So 612 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,439 Speaker 1: that's a stone of schoon. Do you have listener mail? 613 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: Why do I have a correction about an episode that's 614 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: been out for a bit, But this is actually the 615 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,160 Speaker 1: first time that anybody has written about it. I'm sorry. 616 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: I do not know whether the person who sent this 617 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: email pronounces their name Bri or Brie. We just got 618 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: it this morning. The email says, Hi, Holly and Tracy, 619 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: I hope you are well. My name is Bri or 620 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: perhaps Brie. I have been an intermittent listener for the 621 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: past few years, and as a lifelong history lover, I 622 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: studied medieval and religious art history in college. Your podcast 623 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: has opened my mind to so many new eras I 624 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: never explored. Thank you. I have two things I wanted 625 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: to share with you. The first is a correction to 626 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: a few of your episodes. Sorry. The episodes about Dean 627 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: Muhammad had my Indian and Filipino boyfriend banging his head 628 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: against the wall and here's why India is actually considered 629 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: South Asia, not Southeast Asia. Examples of countries in Southeast 630 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: Asia are Vietnam, Thailand, and of course the Philippines. Common 631 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: misconception that India is Southeast Asia, though my boyfriend, as 632 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: a South and Southeast Asian man, had to explain it 633 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: to me when we first met, because people often think 634 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: that we both loved the episodes, though, so thank you. 635 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: The other thing I'd like to inquire about is a 636 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: topic of my own research in college, which was the 637 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 1: Jewish community in Amsterdam in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. 638 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,240 Speaker 1: I studied much of the Dutch artwork of the period, 639 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,760 Speaker 1: considered the Golden Age for mere Rembrandt et cetera, et cetera, 640 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: and also became acquainted with information about the Sephardic Jews 641 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: taking refuge in this period following the expulsions in fourteen 642 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,880 Speaker 1: ninety two from Iberia. The history of this nearly forgotten 643 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: world is incredible. I believe there is so much value 644 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: to be found in showcasing such beautiful culture and history, 645 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: especially because I have found little information outside of academic 646 00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: circles on the topic. I can give you both links 647 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: to titles and primary sources if you're interested. It was 648 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: a main focus for me and I only graduated this May. 649 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,399 Speaker 1: I've attached an obligatory photo of my cats. Her name 650 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: is Mango and she loves to steal my math potatoes 651 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: and carry plastic bottles in her mouth like a dog. 652 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: Keep being amazing, guys, wishing you all the best this 653 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: holiday season. Thank you so much for this email and 654 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: this correction. I went back into the episode outline I 655 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: was like, did I did I say that? I did 656 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 1: say that, and then I went down a big rabbit 657 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: hole about like who decided what was Southeast Asia and 658 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 1: what was South Asia? Because a lot, unlike a lot 659 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: of regional groupings, it does seem to be pretty consistent 660 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: which countries are described as which. And I did not 661 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: find an answer to who decided what is South and 662 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: what is Southeast? So I'm sorry for messing that up. 663 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: And we have not talked about the Jewish community in 664 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: Amsterdam during this period. We have talked about the expulsion 665 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: of the Jewish unity for Iberia in fourteen ninety two. 666 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: So thank you so much for this, and thank you 667 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 1: for this cat picture. This kitty cat looks a little 668 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: startled to be on camera. If you would like to 669 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: send us a note about this or any other podcast. 670 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,279 Speaker 1: For history podcasts at iHeartRadio. You can find us on 671 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: social media ad Missed in History, and you can subscribe 672 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: to the show if you haven't, on the iHeartRadio app 673 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: or wherever you like to get your podcasts. Stuff you 674 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For 675 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 676 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.