WEBVTT - Ron Smith: No One is Perfect

0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:05.279
<v Speaker 1>This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.

0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:14.440
<v Speaker 2>They made fun of her at every turn. She was

0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.160
<v Speaker 2>very unhappy about that. That kind of led to her

0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.120
<v Speaker 2>rebelling in a way later on that Okay, if you're

0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:22.759
<v Speaker 2>not going to accept me, I'm going to scandalize you

0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.720
<v Speaker 2>women at every turn if I can.

0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.599
<v Speaker 3>I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor

0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:35.680
<v Speaker 3>in Austin, Texas.

0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:36.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm also the.

0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.880
<v Speaker 3>Co host of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right,

0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.680
<v Speaker 3>and throughout my career, research for my many audio and

0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.760
<v Speaker 3>book projects has taken me around the world. On Wicked Words,

0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:50.240
<v Speaker 3>I sit down with the people I've met along the way,

0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:55.920
<v Speaker 3>amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, and podcasters who have investigated and

0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.600
<v Speaker 3>reported on notorious true crime cases. This is about the

0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.200
<v Speaker 3>choice as writers make both good and bad, and it's

0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.160
<v Speaker 3>a deep dive into the unpublished details behind their stories.

0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:12.760
<v Speaker 3>Thirty years before the oj Simpson trial, a different murder

0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:16.039
<v Speaker 3>case captured the attention of the country. When a successful

0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.440
<v Speaker 3>Florida businessman is brutally killed in the nineteen sixties, His

0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:25.160
<v Speaker 3>wife and her nephew become suspects, and their disturbing relationship

0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:29.240
<v Speaker 3>makes Headlines author Ron Smith tells me about his book

0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:35.080
<v Speaker 3>No One Is Perfect. Let's talk about this time period.

0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:39.640
<v Speaker 3>We are in nineteen sixty four Florida. Where in Florida

0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.440
<v Speaker 3>and what is it like for the haves and the

0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.200
<v Speaker 3>have nots in the state.

0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.960
<v Speaker 2>The story occurs primarily in the Miami area, although the

0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:52.720
<v Speaker 2>murder occurred on Key Biscayne Island. But in nineteen sixty four,

0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.080
<v Speaker 2>it was I kind of joke and call at the

0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.520
<v Speaker 2>age before Technicolor really took over our lives. It was

0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.880
<v Speaker 2>really still kind of a black and white era. And

0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I say that having lived through it. You know, the

0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:10.320
<v Speaker 2>sexual mores were very different, fashion was very different. Everything

0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.400
<v Speaker 2>was still pretty square in those days. One of the

0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:17.760
<v Speaker 2>benchmarks I use is nineteen sixty four. Just a few

0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.440
<v Speaker 2>months before this murder occurred, the Beatles appeared on the

0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.600
<v Speaker 2>Ed Sullivan Show. And if you know anything about the

0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.520
<v Speaker 2>launching of a new era in everything, fashion, music, the

0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.959
<v Speaker 2>whole bit, sixty four was really kind of a launch

0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.160
<v Speaker 2>pad for a lot of those things to happen. But

0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:39.079
<v Speaker 2>that being said, in Florida, in the South, things were

0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.440
<v Speaker 2>still very tense in a lot of ways. You had

0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.520
<v Speaker 2>people that were very intolerant of any kind of change

0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.760
<v Speaker 2>at the time. If a kid came to school with

0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.280
<v Speaker 2>any kind of hair over his ear, even he was

0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.320
<v Speaker 2>sent home to get a haircut. Sixty four was kind

0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.320
<v Speaker 2>of from that point on, everything became a whole lot

0:02:57.360 --> 0:02:59.400
<v Speaker 2>more fun in the world for a kid who grew

0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:00.080
<v Speaker 2>up in those.

0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.840
<v Speaker 3>So for the family at the center of this the

0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.160
<v Speaker 3>Massler family, tell me the dynamics between them.

0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Both of the characters in this story were really rags

0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.960
<v Speaker 2>to richest type stories. Jacques Mosler was a Romanian immigrant,

0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.079
<v Speaker 2>a Jewish immigrant that was born in eighteen ninety six.

0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.040
<v Speaker 2>He came to the United States in nineteen hundred and

0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:25.480
<v Speaker 2>so it was one of those stories whereas it so

0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.560
<v Speaker 2>often is the case, the second generation of the immigrants

0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:34.640
<v Speaker 2>family prospered and really caught on with American society much

0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.920
<v Speaker 2>more easily than their parents did. So there were three

0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:42.560
<v Speaker 2>children in this family. At some point the parents divorced.

0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.200
<v Speaker 2>The father moved to New York City, the mother and

0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.280
<v Speaker 2>the three children moved to Chicago, which is kind of

0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:53.360
<v Speaker 2>an important point in what Jack mostra became in the

0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.760
<v Speaker 2>rest of his life to support his family. He had

0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.240
<v Speaker 2>no education, He was a newsboy on the street in

0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:05.560
<v Speaker 2>downtown Chicago. And if you know anything about downtown Chicago

0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:10.440
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen tens, it was controlled by organized crime.

0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.600
<v Speaker 2>There was a fellow named Big Jim Colossimo, which he

0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:19.200
<v Speaker 2>preceded al Capone in running the rackets in Chicago. And

0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.239
<v Speaker 2>so Jack Mosler was this young boy that was selling

0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.800
<v Speaker 2>newspapers on the corner in downtown Chicago. These newstands also

0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.880
<v Speaker 2>sold numbers, the lottery tickets. It was the numbers racket.

0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.039
<v Speaker 2>And so even though he was a young boy, he

0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:38.920
<v Speaker 2>had direct contact with organized crime. And one thing about

0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Jack Mosler was that he had a real innate sense

0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:46.800
<v Speaker 2>of mathematics. As he grew older, the Mob recognized that

0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:49.679
<v Speaker 2>he had these talents. Now none of this, of course,

0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:53.279
<v Speaker 2>is documented because it is the Mob, of course, but

0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:56.760
<v Speaker 2>by the time he was seventeen years old, he was

0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.440
<v Speaker 2>living in New Orleans working as a finance manager for

0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.400
<v Speaker 2>automobile dealerships, which tells you he must have been pretty

0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:06.479
<v Speaker 2>talented to be sent down there at such a young

0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.880
<v Speaker 2>age and to be given that kind of responsibility. At

0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.200
<v Speaker 2>some point he disassociated himself from the Mob, and I'm

0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.719
<v Speaker 2>not sure how that really happened. But he became pretty

0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.880
<v Speaker 2>much a legitimate businessman, although his business was a little

0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:25.560
<v Speaker 2>bit shady. He started his own loan company. He started

0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:30.159
<v Speaker 2>a company called Mossler Acceptance Corporation. And for people that

0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:34.200
<v Speaker 2>aren't familiar with the term acceptance means, it means it's

0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:38.120
<v Speaker 2>a loan company that will accept the risk of borrowers

0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.760
<v Speaker 2>who aren't really good credit risk, but they will own

0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.160
<v Speaker 2>you the money at a very high interest rate. And

0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.720
<v Speaker 2>so he began to make a lot of money just

0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>on the margins and the interest that he was charging.

0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.120
<v Speaker 2>He was also quite an entrepreneur in that when cars

0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.440
<v Speaker 2>came to be repossessed, he actually started one of the

0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.599
<v Speaker 2>first rental auto companies in the United States using his

0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:03.880
<v Speaker 2>repossessed vehicles.

0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:07.200
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's so smart. Is that the origin of rental cars?

0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Essentially he was one of the first. Wow. I don't

0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.160
<v Speaker 2>know if all the others began with repossessed vehicles or not,

0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.640
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, he was just a very clever man. And

0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:22.760
<v Speaker 2>so over the next thirty years or so his business grew.

0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:26.320
<v Speaker 2>He opened offices in Dallas and in Houston. Of course

0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.279
<v Speaker 2>he was in New Orleans, and then he opened another

0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.679
<v Speaker 2>one in Miami. And what was happening was car dealders

0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:36.080
<v Speaker 2>were sending him customers that their own legitimate lenders would

0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:40.200
<v Speaker 2>not handle, and the Master Acceptance Corporation would take these

0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.920
<v Speaker 2>people on as borrowers. So he just became very, very

0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:46.320
<v Speaker 2>wealthy over a period of thirty years or so.

0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.240
<v Speaker 3>What happened if you Ron Smith could not pay back

0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:55.279
<v Speaker 3>the loan to Mossler's company? Is this like a very

0:06:55.400 --> 0:07:00.680
<v Speaker 3>violent ending situation or what were the repercussions.

0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:04.680
<v Speaker 2>It could be if you just relinquished the vehicle and yeah,

0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.160
<v Speaker 2>nothing bad would happen, but a lot of people protested,

0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.680
<v Speaker 2>as you can imagine. And to your point, Mossler actually

0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:16.760
<v Speaker 2>always had bodyguards around him. There were guys with guns,

0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.760
<v Speaker 2>and those guys with guns got him in trouble a

0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.240
<v Speaker 2>time or two in his life, nothing that he couldn't

0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.680
<v Speaker 2>get over. But yes, he always had people around him

0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.320
<v Speaker 2>to protect him from borrowers who were very disgruntled and

0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:30.320
<v Speaker 2>unhappy with him.

0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.000
<v Speaker 3>So all of this is setting him up to sound

0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.880
<v Speaker 3>like somebody who is a strong man, a complete jerk,

0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.119
<v Speaker 3>maybe not a good husband, not potentially a good father.

0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Is that true? What was his personal life like?

0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, his first marriage, which occurred in New Orleans. In

0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:52.680
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventeen, he married a local girl. They had four children,

0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.840
<v Speaker 2>they were all daughters, and by all indications, he was

0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:57.840
<v Speaker 2>a good father. He was a pretty good man. He

0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:02.480
<v Speaker 2>was active in society there New Orleans. He was involved

0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.280
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of the civic organizations. It wasn't until

0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.640
<v Speaker 2>he met Candace Massler that he probably became that jerk

0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.960
<v Speaker 2>that you described. I guess I would leave the story

0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.160
<v Speaker 2>in about for Jock Mossler. In nineteen forty seven, he

0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.840
<v Speaker 2>was still happily married. He was still a pillar of society,

0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.200
<v Speaker 2>if you will, there in New Orleans. And then, of

0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.800
<v Speaker 2>course he met this woman named Candace Massler.

0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.000
<v Speaker 3>So let's talk about First of all, I guess about

0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.160
<v Speaker 3>the way that they meet, And I'm assuming is it

0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:37.080
<v Speaker 3>start under scandalous circumstances?

0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Is he's still married?

0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I guess I probably need to back up and

0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.079
<v Speaker 2>tell you the story of Candace Sure. She was born

0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:48.719
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen twenty in a little town in Georgia called Buchanan.

0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.520
<v Speaker 2>It was on the far west side of the state

0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:56.959
<v Speaker 2>in Georgia, almost Alabama. I believe her father was a sharecropper.

0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.120
<v Speaker 2>She always said that he was a farmer. But there

0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.319
<v Speaker 2>wasn't any record of him ever being a very successful farmer.

0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:07.880
<v Speaker 2>She was one of nine children, which wasn't unusual on

0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.120
<v Speaker 2>farming families in those days. They need as many hands

0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.599
<v Speaker 2>in the field as they could get, so she was

0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:15.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of in the middle of that group of nine children.

0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.040
<v Speaker 2>When she was twelve years old, her mother died in childbirth,

0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.439
<v Speaker 2>and so that left her father to be responsible for

0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.520
<v Speaker 2>six or seven minor children. Her father kind of fell

0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.520
<v Speaker 2>apart with the death of his wife. He just basically

0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.440
<v Speaker 2>abandoned the family and moved away to another town, which

0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.679
<v Speaker 2>left the six minor children in the care of her grandparents.

0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.520
<v Speaker 2>One of her grandparents, her grandfather was a Mormon bishop

0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.000
<v Speaker 2>if you can imagine in rural Georgia back in those days. Well,

0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.400
<v Speaker 2>the kids lived with them, and Candace was She was

0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.760
<v Speaker 2>always fantasizing, and I guess if you put yourself in

0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.080
<v Speaker 2>her position, with all the terrible things that had happened

0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:01.680
<v Speaker 2>in her life. She was a big fan of movie

0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.720
<v Speaker 2>magazines and fashion magazines. She used to tell the people

0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.439
<v Speaker 2>in her family that one day I'm going to be famous,

0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.120
<v Speaker 2>and one day I'm going to design these clothes for

0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.640
<v Speaker 2>these movie stars. And so she always had big dreams

0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.040
<v Speaker 2>even as a kid. Well, by the time she was

0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.559
<v Speaker 2>seventeen years old, the depression was going on and her

0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:25.200
<v Speaker 2>grandfather encouraged her to get married, and so he found

0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.520
<v Speaker 2>a man for her to marry, a man named Norman Johnson,

0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.440
<v Speaker 2>who is twelve years older than her. You can imagine

0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.560
<v Speaker 2>she was not very happy being in this arranged marriage.

0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.439
<v Speaker 2>The man that she married had a job in Aniston, Alabama,

0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:42.240
<v Speaker 2>which was not far away from Buchanan where she grew up,

0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.440
<v Speaker 2>but they were just dirt poor. He worked in a

0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.559
<v Speaker 2>concrete plant, didn't make any money to speak of, and

0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.160
<v Speaker 2>she had her child. Her first child in nineteen forty

0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:55.760
<v Speaker 2>was a son that was named Norman Johnson Junior. But again,

0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.439
<v Speaker 2>this restlessness was always in her spirit. She always wanted

0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:02.280
<v Speaker 2>to get out of this loveless marriage, and so in

0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.240
<v Speaker 2>nineteen forty one, when World War Two began, she signed

0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.679
<v Speaker 2>up to be a hostess with the US SO the

0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.160
<v Speaker 2>organization that would host the soldiers. There was a man

0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.720
<v Speaker 2>who was one of the most well known people in

0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.240
<v Speaker 2>America at the time. He was one of the Rockefellers.

0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.439
<v Speaker 2>His name was Win Rockefeller and he was a soldier

0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.040
<v Speaker 2>stationed at Fort Benning, Georgia, which was only about eighty

0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.240
<v Speaker 2>miles away from where she lived. Well, as fate would

0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.840
<v Speaker 2>have it, she was a hostess at a party that

0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Win Rockefeller and a bunch of soldiers from Fort Benning

0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:39.800
<v Speaker 2>were bussed up to attend. Some kind of love connection

0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.280
<v Speaker 2>was made at this USO dance. Within about a year,

0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.640
<v Speaker 2>she was pregnant with Rockefeller's child.

0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, that's not where I thought you were

0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:49.719
<v Speaker 3>heading at all. No.

0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.720
<v Speaker 2>So Rockefeller was aware of this, but he was sent

0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.160
<v Speaker 2>off to war in the Pacific.

0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Was he married, Sorry to interrupt you. Was he married? Okay,

0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:00.000
<v Speaker 1>he was not married at the time.

0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.440
<v Speaker 2>No, but he was extremely well known. He was like

0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:08.000
<v Speaker 2>an early version of JFK. Junior, you might say. When

0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.240
<v Speaker 2>he joined the army, all of the magazines in the

0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.280
<v Speaker 2>country were always taking photographs of him to be on

0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.599
<v Speaker 2>the cover of him as a soldier, because it was

0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:18.960
<v Speaker 2>great publicity for the war effort. But by the time

0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:21.720
<v Speaker 2>the child was born, it was a little girl named Rita.

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 2>He was off in the Pacific theater and Candace was

0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.280
<v Speaker 2>left alone there with her husband Norman. Now, at some

0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 2>point Norman realized that this other little blonde child Rita

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.680
<v Speaker 2>was not his. I don't know when exactly that occurred,

0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.440
<v Speaker 2>but by the time the war was over, her marriage

0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.600
<v Speaker 2>to Norman Johnson was over, and you asked if he

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.240
<v Speaker 2>was married. He still was not married when the war ended,

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.600
<v Speaker 2>and so Candace was actually in New York City for

0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.240
<v Speaker 2>a while where he lived after the war, and they

0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.440
<v Speaker 2>continued to see each other. But in nineteen forty eight,

0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:03.760
<v Speaker 2>when Rockefeller married another woman who looked remarkably like Candace,

0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.600
<v Speaker 2>he had a thing, I guess for pretty blonde girls.

0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm assuming the woman that he married is a little

0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.800
<v Speaker 3>bit more quote unquote appropriate for someone in his station

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:13.440
<v Speaker 3>in life.

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 2>She had been an actress, she was well known as well,

0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.160
<v Speaker 2>and so the next thing you know, Candace is banished

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 2>from New York and she ends up living in New Orleans.

0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Is he supporting the little girl?

0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.440
<v Speaker 2>I assume so. But if you put it back in

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.360
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen forties, and this was a man who had

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.120
<v Speaker 2>political aspirations. He later went on to be the governor

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.800
<v Speaker 2>of Arkansas, of all places, and of course his brother,

0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Nelson Rockefeller, was also big in politics. So it was

0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.480
<v Speaker 2>a political family. He had aims on that kind of

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 2>career and in those days. If it had come out

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.680
<v Speaker 2>that he had a love child, it would have ruined

0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.800
<v Speaker 2>those political dreams of his. So that's why Candace was

0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.840
<v Speaker 2>banished down to the South, and he was married. And

0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.960
<v Speaker 2>to answer your question, certainly, I assumed that he supported

0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.680
<v Speaker 2>the child in a very comfortable fashion, because there's no

0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.760
<v Speaker 2>signs that Candace was living in poverty in any way,

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 2>but she was in New Orleans. Candace was always big

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.080
<v Speaker 2>about inventing things that had happened in her life that

0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.320
<v Speaker 2>never really happened. She used to if you remember, I said,

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.520
<v Speaker 2>as a child, she had dreams of being a fashion designer. Well,

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 2>when she moved back down south, she told all of

0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 2>her family and her friends that she had been a

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.120
<v Speaker 2>fashion designer for one of the largest firms in New York.

0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 2>She mentioned them by name, and of course somebody had

0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.080
<v Speaker 2>done the homework. She never worked for these people. She

0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 2>claimed that she was the chief designer for them. Of course,

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.640
<v Speaker 2>at this time she's in her mid twenties and had

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 2>no formal training as a fashion designer. So if this

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.200
<v Speaker 2>had happened today and you had Google, it would be

0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 2>very easy to disprove the things that she was putting

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.560
<v Speaker 2>out there for people but in the what is she

0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.240
<v Speaker 2>could probably get away with some of it.

0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 3>How did that benefit her do you think, I mean,

0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 3>did it open any doors for her? Once she was

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 3>in New Orleans, She's a single mother of two kids

0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 3>from two different men. After the war, She's not in

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.480
<v Speaker 3>a good situation. I know you said it looked like

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.000
<v Speaker 3>she wasn't you know, in poverty or anything, likely from Rockefeller.

0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:21.400
<v Speaker 3>But was it just for her own self esteem self

0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 3>comfort that she lied to people about this or did

0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:24.800
<v Speaker 3>it go anywhere?

0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.400
<v Speaker 2>I think it was exactly to build herself up and

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 2>make herself. You know again, if you look at her background,

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.600
<v Speaker 2>the heart scrabble conditions that she grew up in, I

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 2>think it was a good way for her to make

0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.680
<v Speaker 2>herself feel better and to as you'll see as the

0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.320
<v Speaker 2>rest of her life, she wanted to impress other people

0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 2>and make them not even know where she had come from.

0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Now I can tie the two together. She and Jock Moussel.

0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 2>How they met is anybody's guests. She came up with

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 2>this real met cute kind of story later on that

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 2>she was at the zoo one day And Orleans with

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 2>her children and this man came by with a camera

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.400
<v Speaker 2>and who was taking their pictures, and she went over

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 2>to ask him, you know, what are you doing and

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.000
<v Speaker 2>he said, oh, I've just got this new camera and

0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm really interested in taking pictures of children and moving objects.

0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 2>And you know, it sounds pretty contrived, but that was

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 2>the story she stuck with for the rest of her

0:16:20.480 --> 0:16:23.400
<v Speaker 2>life about how they met. Of course, he was married,

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 2>so don't know the breakdown exactly of the marriage that

0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.840
<v Speaker 2>he had with his first wife, but in nineteen forty

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 2>nine he married. He divorced his first wife, and two

0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.160
<v Speaker 2>weeks later married Candace.

0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 3>When you describe these two people together, is this like

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:47.240
<v Speaker 3>a explosive attraction, hot and cold, volatile relationship or is

0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.640
<v Speaker 3>this sort of two people who have lived as opportunists

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 3>for most of their lives and they found each other.

0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a good way to put it. Okay, Yeah,

0:16:55.920 --> 0:17:00.880
<v Speaker 2>when they met again, Candace was in her late twenties

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 2>at this point. I believe she was twenty seven twenty eight.

0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.399
<v Speaker 2>He was this very conservative businessman, he'd been married to

0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 2>the same woman for almost forty years, his children were

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.160
<v Speaker 2>mostly grown, so I think it was just an attraction

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.480
<v Speaker 2>of here's this really hot chick that comes by and

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.480
<v Speaker 2>she acts interested in him for obvious reasons, because he's very,

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:28.760
<v Speaker 2>very wealthy. They married in nineteen forty nine. They vacationed

0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.200
<v Speaker 2>in Europe for a couple of months. When they came

0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.640
<v Speaker 2>back to the States. I think Jacques or Jack as

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.840
<v Speaker 2>his friends called him, didn't feel comfortable living in New

0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:41.159
<v Speaker 2>Orleans anymore with his ex wife and these four children

0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.840
<v Speaker 2>of his there, and that's when they moved to Houston,

0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.600
<v Speaker 2>he and Kansas, and that kind of set the wheels

0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.840
<v Speaker 2>in motion for the rest of his life. For sure.

0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.719
<v Speaker 3>What is the It sounds like he is a you know,

0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 3>like of Jack of all trade the little bit when

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.919
<v Speaker 3>he moves to Houston, what is his main income source?

0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.800
<v Speaker 3>What is that enterprise that he has? And I'm assuming

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.400
<v Speaker 3>he sets up in some incredibly wealthy area of Houston

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:07.159
<v Speaker 3>and buys a lavish house and all that.

0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.120
<v Speaker 2>You're right. He did keep in mind, though, that he

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.200
<v Speaker 2>was Jewish. When they moved to Houston. It was nineteen

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.920
<v Speaker 2>forty nine, and even though he was extremely wealthy, he

0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.400
<v Speaker 2>had these loan companies spread out across the country. And

0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:24.439
<v Speaker 2>another thing that he had done after the war, he

0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.520
<v Speaker 2>had gotten into the mobile home business because it was

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.480
<v Speaker 2>such a housing explosion that there was a housing shortage

0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.800
<v Speaker 2>for these veterans coming home from the war. So he

0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.640
<v Speaker 2>not only was selling mobile homes, but he was requiring

0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.720
<v Speaker 2>those people to ensure the mobile homes through his insurance company.

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 2>So he was just a very manipulative although nothing unethical

0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.480
<v Speaker 2>about that, but he was just a real smart guy

0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.920
<v Speaker 2>about plugging in one business into the other. So when

0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 2>they moved to Houston, they had to live in a neighborhood.

0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.560
<v Speaker 2>It was the home to the predominantly wealthy Jewish people

0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.919
<v Speaker 2>in Houston, and there was a pretty good sized Jewish

0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.919
<v Speaker 2>community in the city at that time. They lived in

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:06.800
<v Speaker 2>a home there for about two years. It was a

0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.199
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood called Riverside Terrace. It was a nice home. I've

0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 2>driven by. It's still there. But Candace the entire time,

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.879
<v Speaker 2>being kind of the social climber that she was, was

0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:22.280
<v Speaker 2>pressuring him to find a home in river Oaks. Now,

0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:26.360
<v Speaker 2>if you're familiar with Houston, river Oaks is the oldest, wealthiest,

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.200
<v Speaker 2>old money neighborhood in the city. In nineteen fifty two,

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 2>she got her way. He bought a home on Willowick

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Road in Houston. It was this big, beautiful red brick

0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:41.679
<v Speaker 2>stately Georgian style mansion that probably had to appeal to

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 2>her memories of growing up in Georgia, with all these

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.080
<v Speaker 2>big homes that she could never afford to have gone into,

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.280
<v Speaker 2>let alone lived in. So by that time she had

0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.800
<v Speaker 2>gotten her wish. They were encanced in river Oaks. Been

0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.440
<v Speaker 2>a dream of hers to live in a neighborhood like that,

0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.639
<v Speaker 2>And of course her two children were still living with

0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:06.320
<v Speaker 2>them at the time, and a remarkable thing happened. One

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:09.080
<v Speaker 2>of the points I wanted to make was that together

0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.960
<v Speaker 2>they were this powerhouse couple, and even though they were

0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.160
<v Speaker 2>living in river Oaks, they were still a great deal

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.199
<v Speaker 2>of social prejudice against Jews and river Oaks. Even it

0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.200
<v Speaker 2>was quite a feat for them to be living there,

0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:25.480
<v Speaker 2>but they weren't exactly welcomed with open arms. So Kendace

0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.440
<v Speaker 2>really tried her best to assimilate into river Oaks cafe society,

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.760
<v Speaker 2>if you will. She was firmly rejected by the wealthy

0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.919
<v Speaker 2>women there, partly because of who she was married to,

0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.159
<v Speaker 2>partly because of just who she was. She was this

0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.920
<v Speaker 2>beautiful woman, but she was extremely You could tell her

0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:47.080
<v Speaker 2>old poor Georgia roots came through loud and clear. Every

0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.879
<v Speaker 2>time she talked, they made fun of her at every turn.

0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.080
<v Speaker 2>She was very unhappy about that, and that kind of

0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.760
<v Speaker 2>led to her rebelling in a way later on that Okay,

0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 2>if you're not going to accept me, I'm going to

0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.120
<v Speaker 2>scandalize you women, And at every turn if I came.

0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.760
<v Speaker 2>She did that in ways of buying her way onto

0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.680
<v Speaker 2>the boards of some civic organizations, the opera, the ballet.

0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:12.280
<v Speaker 2>Of course, these women were on some of those same

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.720
<v Speaker 2>boards with her, But her husband just had so much

0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:19.000
<v Speaker 2>money that he could put her on those boards with

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.000
<v Speaker 2>these huge donations that he was making.

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.080
<v Speaker 3>It sounds like Candice and Shack are both social climbers

0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.520
<v Speaker 3>or theirs and an idea of accumulating more wealth and

0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.480
<v Speaker 3>being more showy, and especially because they both come from

0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:38.119
<v Speaker 3>such humble beginnings. What is their relationship like in the fifties.

0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:41.359
<v Speaker 3>We don't have this inciting incident until sixty four, So

0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 3>what is happening right in the fifties. Do they have

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:45.160
<v Speaker 3>a good relationship.

0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:47.720
<v Speaker 2>I think they tolerated each other, It's the way that

0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I would put it. He was still a very conservative

0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:55.760
<v Speaker 2>business man in his soul. He didn't really participate in

0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:59.080
<v Speaker 2>any of these social climbing efforts that she made. He

0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.880
<v Speaker 2>had no desire to be part of the rodeo committee

0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 2>or things like that. He would use his money to

0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:06.919
<v Speaker 2>put her on some of those boards and things, but

0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.320
<v Speaker 2>he just wanted to keep a low profile and he

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:13.280
<v Speaker 2>truly did operate under the radar for the most part,

0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.560
<v Speaker 2>whereas she she wanted to scandalize these people as much

0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.440
<v Speaker 2>as they could if they weren't going to accept her,

0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 2>and the ways in which she did that were to

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.600
<v Speaker 2>go to these nightclubs that they would never go to.

0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>She loved rhythm and blues music. She would go to

0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.920
<v Speaker 2>clubs in Houston that these River Oaks women would never

0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:37.399
<v Speaker 2>set foot in. She loved to go to clubs because

0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.320
<v Speaker 2>her husband wouldn't go with her. She would take young

0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:44.720
<v Speaker 2>men with her. And whether there was any sexual misconduct

0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 2>on her part at that time, it's hard to say,

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.679
<v Speaker 2>but I think it's a safe assumption that, yeah, she

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:54.040
<v Speaker 2>was beginning to just feel her oats socially and sexually

0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:57.040
<v Speaker 2>and do what she wanted to do, and she had

0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.239
<v Speaker 2>a husband that pretty much just didn't care, so she

0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 2>was doing all these things. She was by the mid fifties,

0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.760
<v Speaker 2>she was definitely having affairs. One of those affairs was

0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:07.880
<v Speaker 2>with Chuck Berry.

0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Wait, seriously, Chuck Berry, the.

0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.680
<v Speaker 2>Singer, seriously whow You can imagine how that went over

0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.000
<v Speaker 2>in River Oaks. And she did not hide any of this.

0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:20.600
<v Speaker 2>She threw parties at her home, had this big, huge

0:23:20.680 --> 0:23:23.320
<v Speaker 2>lawn in the back of the mansion. She was always

0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.320
<v Speaker 2>throwing lawn parties and one of them had Chuck Berry

0:23:26.359 --> 0:23:30.479
<v Speaker 2>providing the music at one point during the night. And

0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:33.119
<v Speaker 2>this was all recording. It a photograph that made the

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 2>newspapers in Houston. She's up on the balcony of her

0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.840
<v Speaker 2>master bedroom suite on the third floor of this house,

0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.040
<v Speaker 2>with Chuck Berry standing next to her, wearing no shirt.

0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Today that might sound pretty tame, but in nineteen fifty

0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.040
<v Speaker 2>nine or whenever it was, you can imagine how that

0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:52.879
<v Speaker 2>just sent the gossip people over the edge.

0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:54.240
<v Speaker 1>That's incredible.

0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:56.520
<v Speaker 3>And I don't know why I can't tear away from

0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.600
<v Speaker 3>Chuck Berry because it just seems so out of the blue,

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 3>just like well, I have the same look of shock

0:24:01.680 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 3>that I had when you talked about when Rockefeller. So

0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:09.920
<v Speaker 3>I know that her Husbandques must have been at least

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:12.200
<v Speaker 3>irritated that she's going out. I know it doesn't seem

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 3>like he cares, but that she's going out and doing

0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 3>stuff with other men. Did this just send him through

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.480
<v Speaker 3>the roof that she is clearly in some sort of

0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:25.320
<v Speaker 3>a compromising position in the newspapers with a black singer

0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:26.639
<v Speaker 3>who is very famous.

0:24:27.000 --> 0:24:30.280
<v Speaker 2>There's no record of how he reacted, although one thing

0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:32.919
<v Speaker 2>that is on the record, he began to spend a

0:24:32.960 --> 0:24:35.960
<v Speaker 2>lot more time at his other offices in other cities.

0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.639
<v Speaker 2>By this time, he owned a couple of banks in Chicago,

0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:42.639
<v Speaker 2>he owned a couple of banks in Miami. He still

0:24:42.680 --> 0:24:46.439
<v Speaker 2>retained ownership of his loan companies. I think he was

0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:50.840
<v Speaker 2>probably mortified by some of her behavior because he was

0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>this very conservative guy. But there's no indication that he

0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:57.040
<v Speaker 2>did anything to rein her in.

0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:59.120
<v Speaker 1>Why would he stay married to her.

0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.640
<v Speaker 3>They don't have children together, right, because there's his four

0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:05.720
<v Speaker 3>kids in New Orleans and her two kids from other men.

0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:10.160
<v Speaker 3>So what is keeping him from divorcing her, keeping all

0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:13.320
<v Speaker 3>of his money and you know, then marrying some other

0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:15.720
<v Speaker 3>young twenty something year old when now he's in his

0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:17.000
<v Speaker 3>sixties at this point.

0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:19.680
<v Speaker 2>I think it's called a prenup agreement, is what kept

0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 2>them together.

0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:23.399
<v Speaker 3>Oh, I didn't think that prenups were that old.

0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:24.879
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so in the forties.

0:25:25.040 --> 0:25:27.159
<v Speaker 2>They married in nineteen forty nine, and there was a

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:31.000
<v Speaker 2>prenup agreement. Wow. The prenup agreement called for if she

0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:33.760
<v Speaker 2>were to divorce him, she would receive a flat fee

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>of two hundred thousand dollars. If he were to divorce her,

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.920
<v Speaker 2>she would receive one half of his estate. Well, he's

0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:43.800
<v Speaker 2>a very wealthy guy giving way half of his estate

0:25:43.880 --> 0:25:47.920
<v Speaker 2>to this woman that he probably was becoming very distasteful

0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:51.680
<v Speaker 2>with at that point. He just wasn't willing to do it.

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:53.280
<v Speaker 1>That's an awful agreement.

0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean, does that That seem like a terrible agreement

0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:56.840
<v Speaker 3>on his part.

0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:00.439
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes very smart guys do very dumb things.

0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:03.560
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let's get to the other player in this story

0:26:03.600 --> 0:26:05.679
<v Speaker 3>before we talk about what happens to Jacques.

0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay. In nineteen sixty two, Candace had a nephew that

0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:14.080
<v Speaker 2>was the son of her sister Elizabeth. He was a

0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:18.560
<v Speaker 2>young man named Melvin Lane Powers, and he was only

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:22.160
<v Speaker 2>nineteen years old when he got into trouble with the law.

0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:24.840
<v Speaker 2>He had fallen in with this band of people that

0:26:24.880 --> 0:26:29.679
<v Speaker 2>were scamming people going door to door selling magazine subscriptions,

0:26:30.400 --> 0:26:33.000
<v Speaker 2>and to make a long story short, he was arrested

0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 2>up in Pontiac, Michigan in nineteen sixty one. They called

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:40.639
<v Speaker 2>him a grifter in the newspaper accounts of it. So

0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:45.480
<v Speaker 2>he spent six months in the county jail. And Elizabeth,

0:26:45.920 --> 0:26:49.920
<v Speaker 2>his mother, called Candace, her sister, and said, Hey, he's

0:26:49.920 --> 0:26:51.840
<v Speaker 2>going to get just right back into trouble if he

0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 2>stays up there, He's going to fall back into these

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:58.399
<v Speaker 2>scammers that he's been in cahoots with. So do you

0:26:58.440 --> 0:27:01.800
<v Speaker 2>think Jack could find him a joke, maybe repossessing cars

0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:04.880
<v Speaker 2>or something down in Houston, to get him away from them.

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 2>And so Candace said, well, of course we can, so

0:27:07.640 --> 0:27:11.480
<v Speaker 2>that she without asking Jack, she has him come down

0:27:11.520 --> 0:27:14.959
<v Speaker 2>and move into the mansion in Houston. He's nineteen and

0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:18.480
<v Speaker 2>by this point she's about forty forty two years old.

0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:22.800
<v Speaker 2>As time goes by, Jock is very reluctant to give

0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:26.240
<v Speaker 2>this guy a job because he's got no real education,

0:27:26.400 --> 0:27:29.640
<v Speaker 2>he has no real marketable skills, and he's also got

0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 2>a pretty boorish, bullying type of a personality. He's a

0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:37.000
<v Speaker 2>big dude, he's about six foot four, and he's very

0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:41.760
<v Speaker 2>intimidating at some point, Candace and her nephew begin an

0:27:41.800 --> 0:27:46.080
<v Speaker 2>incestuous affair. One of the most icky parts of this

0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.520
<v Speaker 2>I told you earlier. When this story happened in nineteen

0:27:48.600 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 2>sixty four, I was a kid. I didn't really understand

0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:55.320
<v Speaker 2>what they were talking about on the news accounts when

0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 2>they talked about incest between this couple. But she was

0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:01.679
<v Speaker 2>very open about it, much as she had been with

0:28:01.680 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 2>a Chuck Berry story and other things. They were going

0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:08.400
<v Speaker 2>out to restaurants and clubs together, they took vacations together.

0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:12.280
<v Speaker 2>She was in the society columns all the time, and

0:28:12.359 --> 0:28:15.919
<v Speaker 2>it was often mentioning mel as her escort, so it

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:17.760
<v Speaker 2>wasn't a great deal of effort on her part to

0:28:17.840 --> 0:28:20.520
<v Speaker 2>hide the fact that they were going out together. Now,

0:28:20.600 --> 0:28:23.679
<v Speaker 2>nobody really dreamed that they were sleeping together. But it

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 2>took a while, but Jacques finally woke up to this

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:29.879
<v Speaker 2>and the gossip got to him. Even the household staff

0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:32.679
<v Speaker 2>told him what was going on, because every time he

0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:35.120
<v Speaker 2>was out of town, the two of them were spending

0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:38.240
<v Speaker 2>time in the same bedroom in the mansion. So even

0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the household staff got disgusted and finally went to Jock

0:28:41.640 --> 0:28:45.000
<v Speaker 2>and told him what was going on. At that point,

0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:48.560
<v Speaker 2>he evicted Mel from the mansion. Mel threatened him on

0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:51.160
<v Speaker 2>the way out the door, saying, essentially, one day, you

0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:55.040
<v Speaker 2>better always be looking over your shoulder because I'm going

0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.760
<v Speaker 2>to be coming for you one day. And so you

0:28:57.760 --> 0:29:00.320
<v Speaker 2>would think that that might have ended the affair, but

0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:03.960
<v Speaker 2>it did not. Candace rented an apartment for him just

0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 2>a few blocks away from where she was living, and

0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:09.760
<v Speaker 2>they continued to see each other, and by this time

0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 2>it was pretty common knowledge through at least the River

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Oak society that you know what was going on. Candace

0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:20.400
<v Speaker 2>always tried to pass mel Off as Jacques's protege, that

0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:23.160
<v Speaker 2>he was teaching him the business, and that was really

0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:23.920
<v Speaker 2>not true at all.

0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:28.360
<v Speaker 3>Just to make sure everybody's clear, this is not Jacques's

0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:34.040
<v Speaker 3>nephew and her nephew by marriage. This is her sister's son.

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:37.560
<v Speaker 3>So they are related, they're blood relatives. Does the sister

0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:41.000
<v Speaker 3>know at this point that her sister is sleeping with

0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 3>her son.

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't think so, although it became known later, and

0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:48.280
<v Speaker 2>it was it was very strange that even her family,

0:29:48.360 --> 0:29:50.840
<v Speaker 2>her siblings, were well aware of what was going on,

0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:52.239
<v Speaker 2>and they seemed to be okay with it.

0:29:52.560 --> 0:29:55.280
<v Speaker 3>So they are together and so tell me what the

0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:57.960
<v Speaker 3>next step is. Because we all know now that Jacka's

0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:01.720
<v Speaker 3>going to end up dead sometime soon. What changes to

0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:04.640
<v Speaker 3>make that happen? Is it Mel making this threat?

0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Not really, I don't think he was necessarily afraid of

0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Mel at that point, but he was just I think

0:30:10.960 --> 0:30:13.959
<v Speaker 2>he just felt so humiliated that he just felt like,

0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 2>I've got to get out of town. So he moved

0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:19.880
<v Speaker 2>to Miami and leased this apartment on Keep Us Gain.

0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:22.960
<v Speaker 2>It was a very modest apartment, but he was running

0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:25.880
<v Speaker 2>his businesses from Florida and he would only come to

0:30:25.920 --> 0:30:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Houston on occasion. Now, he had made the mistake earlier

0:30:28.880 --> 0:30:31.960
<v Speaker 2>on in their marriage of putting canvas on the board

0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:35.200
<v Speaker 2>of his businesses, so they had to bump into each

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:37.440
<v Speaker 2>other when he came to town for board meetings. But

0:30:37.720 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>I can't imagine how uncomfortable that might have been for

0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 2>everybody else in the room. But for the most part,

0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:46.320
<v Speaker 2>he remained in Florida and they had adopted four children.

0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Back in the fifties, there was this really tragic story

0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 2>in Chicago where Jock had a bank, and just to

0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:56.560
<v Speaker 2>cut to the chase on how that happened, these four

0:30:56.640 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 2>children came from a family where the father was mentally stable,

0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:05.600
<v Speaker 2>killed their mother, killed one of their siblings, and he

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:08.960
<v Speaker 2>was committed to a mental institution, leaving these four children

0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:12.960
<v Speaker 2>as wards of the state. So Jacques was in town

0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:16.000
<v Speaker 2>read the story and he called Candace and he said, hey,

0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:18.720
<v Speaker 2>let's adopt these kids. So by the time the story

0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:21.480
<v Speaker 2>moves to Florida, there are these four children that are

0:31:21.800 --> 0:31:22.720
<v Speaker 2>part of the family.

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:26.120
<v Speaker 1>Now, okay, well what ends up happening next?

0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:29.240
<v Speaker 3>Now they're separated because she's in Texas, right and he's

0:31:29.280 --> 0:31:31.480
<v Speaker 3>in Key Biscayne, Florida.

0:31:31.520 --> 0:31:34.280
<v Speaker 1>When does this all happen? And what part does Mel

0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:34.800
<v Speaker 1>play in this?

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.280
<v Speaker 2>Mel was in Houston by this time. Candace had set

0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.080
<v Speaker 2>him up in a mobile homes lot where he sold

0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:44.600
<v Speaker 2>mobile homes, and by all accounts, he was doing pretty

0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:46.800
<v Speaker 2>well with it. He wasn't nearly the wealthy as the

0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:48.920
<v Speaker 2>masters were, but he was doing well for a kid

0:31:48.920 --> 0:31:54.720
<v Speaker 2>from Alabama. So the affairs continuing, Jacques is considering getting

0:31:54.720 --> 0:31:59.760
<v Speaker 2>a divorce despite this onerous prenuptial agreement. He had a

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>horse attorney who was counseling him and said, one thing

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:06.320
<v Speaker 2>you need to start doing is keeping a diary of

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:09.280
<v Speaker 2>all the conversations that you have with her. The lawyer

0:32:09.280 --> 0:32:12.200
<v Speaker 2>had led him to believe that because of this incestuous

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 2>behavior that they might be able to avoid the prenuptial

0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:19.000
<v Speaker 2>agreement in a divorce court. But so Jock is keeping

0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:23.800
<v Speaker 2>this diary, and after one particularly heated discussion on the

0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:27.000
<v Speaker 2>phone with Candace, he writes into the diary, and it

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 2>was the last entry that he ever made. I guess

0:32:29.440 --> 0:32:31.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to have to kill Candace and Mail before

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:35.600
<v Speaker 2>they kill me. In May of nineteen sixty four, Candace

0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:38.840
<v Speaker 2>comes to visit in Miami with the four younger children

0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:43.000
<v Speaker 2>and her older daughter, Rita, who is the Rockefeller child.

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:46.000
<v Speaker 2>They're visiting him in his apartment. The apartment is too

0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:49.080
<v Speaker 2>small to hold all these people. It's only two bedrooms,

0:32:49.640 --> 0:32:52.200
<v Speaker 2>so they had taken a hotel room nearby for the

0:32:52.280 --> 0:32:55.120
<v Speaker 2>children to stay in, but they were using his apartment

0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>there as a base of operations. It was near the beach,

0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:01.360
<v Speaker 2>and so one night May thirty first, the last day

0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 2>of the month, she and the children make this game

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.440
<v Speaker 2>out of it's time to pay the bills. The first

0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:09.920
<v Speaker 2>of the month is tomorrow, So as she tells the story,

0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:12.640
<v Speaker 2>one kid would address the envelope, the other would put

0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:14.720
<v Speaker 2>a stamp on the envelope, the other would put the

0:33:14.760 --> 0:33:17.360
<v Speaker 2>return address on it, pass it to her where she

0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.920
<v Speaker 2>was writing out checks. Well, when they finished this exercise,

0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:24.160
<v Speaker 2>she realized that she didn't have any stamps. As hokey

0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 2>as this may sound, she says, it's midnight, and she

0:33:27.960 --> 0:33:30.880
<v Speaker 2>says to Jaque, I'm going to take the children and

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:33.680
<v Speaker 2>go buy some stamps and get these bills in the mailbox.

0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:38.360
<v Speaker 2>He says, fine. So this all occurs about midnight. He

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.440
<v Speaker 2>goes out and sits out on the balcony for a

0:33:40.480 --> 0:33:44.920
<v Speaker 2>while by himself, and about twelve thirty he sees a

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:48.040
<v Speaker 2>car headlights coming down the street. It's a car that

0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:51.280
<v Speaker 2>he recognizes because it's one of the cars from his

0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:56.920
<v Speaker 2>repossession lot in Miami, and he just assumes it's Candae

0:33:57.320 --> 0:34:00.640
<v Speaker 2>coming back without the children, probably going to spend the

0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:04.920
<v Speaker 2>night in the second bedroom there at the apartment. Well

0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:07.360
<v Speaker 2>it's not canvas. He goes on and goes to bed

0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:09.839
<v Speaker 2>because he wants to avoid her. But he's in his

0:34:09.880 --> 0:34:14.359
<v Speaker 2>bedroom getting dressed or undressed actually, and he hears his

0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 2>dog barking in at the door. But the dog quiets

0:34:18.120 --> 0:34:21.400
<v Speaker 2>down almost immediately and at the door opens and he

0:34:21.400 --> 0:34:24.400
<v Speaker 2>hears someone talking to the dog, and it's obviously someone

0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:28.160
<v Speaker 2>that the dog recognizes, because the dog settles down. Well,

0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:31.160
<v Speaker 2>he opens his bedroom door and he recognizes this big,

0:34:31.280 --> 0:34:34.560
<v Speaker 2>large person in the darkness that we can assume was

0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Melbourn Lane Powers. Jacques is completely undressed at this point.

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:43.400
<v Speaker 2>He's wearing only an undershirt and he panics and he's wondering,

0:34:43.840 --> 0:34:46.279
<v Speaker 2>I need to get away from this guy. And he

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:49.200
<v Speaker 2>makes a bolt for the sliding glass balcony door of

0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:52.279
<v Speaker 2>the apartment and he's hoping, I guess that he can

0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:54.880
<v Speaker 2>get to that door and call out for someone outside

0:34:54.920 --> 0:34:57.359
<v Speaker 2>to come help him, or maybe someone in the other

0:34:57.400 --> 0:35:01.240
<v Speaker 2>apartments below him will come and help. Well, he doesn't

0:35:01.280 --> 0:35:04.239
<v Speaker 2>make it to the door. He's bashed over the head

0:35:04.320 --> 0:35:07.360
<v Speaker 2>with what was later believed to be a coat bottle,

0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:12.000
<v Speaker 2>and then he is stabbed thirty nine times.

0:35:12.440 --> 0:35:14.640
<v Speaker 1>H thirty nine times.

0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:18.800
<v Speaker 2>Wow. But this is where the story gets very odd.

0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:22.759
<v Speaker 2>After the murder, the murderer wraps the body up in

0:35:22.800 --> 0:35:26.719
<v Speaker 2>a blanket and leaves him there. And there are witnesses

0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:28.680
<v Speaker 2>in the apartment I guess you could call them ear

0:35:28.719 --> 0:35:32.719
<v Speaker 2>witnesses that hear this big set of footprints going down

0:35:33.120 --> 0:35:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the outdoor stairway, and at four o'clock in the morning,

0:35:37.719 --> 0:35:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Candace comes back to the apartment with the children in

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:44.200
<v Speaker 2>tow and they see the light on underneath the doorway

0:35:44.480 --> 0:35:47.680
<v Speaker 2>of the apartment and she says, oh, I guess daddy's

0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:51.120
<v Speaker 2>up late reading tonight. They open the door, they find

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:56.000
<v Speaker 2>the body, and she sends the children downstairs, and for

0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:58.560
<v Speaker 2>thirty minutes, they go off the air. They don't call

0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:02.399
<v Speaker 2>the police, they don't call an ambulance. No one knows

0:36:02.440 --> 0:36:05.239
<v Speaker 2>what's going on in the apartment for thirty minutes. And

0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 2>the first phone call she makes is not to the

0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:12.640
<v Speaker 2>police or an ambulance. She calls Jock's personal physician. Now

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:15.680
<v Speaker 2>he's dead. I don't know what good a doctor is

0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:19.360
<v Speaker 2>going to do at that point, but the physician tells her, Candice,

0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:21.280
<v Speaker 2>you need to hang up, you need to call the police,

0:36:21.800 --> 0:36:25.520
<v Speaker 2>which they do. Finally, when the police arrive, her story

0:36:25.600 --> 0:36:28.520
<v Speaker 2>is so full of holes they know immediately that she's

0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:31.600
<v Speaker 2>lying to them. She claims that this was a robbery

0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.719
<v Speaker 2>gone bad. I had left several hundred dollars out on

0:36:34.760 --> 0:36:38.319
<v Speaker 2>the kitchen counter. It's not there anymore. I had some

0:36:38.520 --> 0:36:42.200
<v Speaker 2>very expensive jewelry in the bedroom it's not there anymore.

0:36:42.440 --> 0:36:44.440
<v Speaker 2>When they begin to press her on like even a

0:36:44.480 --> 0:36:47.640
<v Speaker 2>description of what the jewelry looked like, she kind of

0:36:47.640 --> 0:36:49.960
<v Speaker 2>blanked out them and couldn't even give a description of it.

0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:52.640
<v Speaker 2>So then she begins to tell them that, you know,

0:36:52.880 --> 0:36:55.759
<v Speaker 2>it was a robbery, and the cops say, no, this

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.880
<v Speaker 2>a robber is not going to stab somebody thirty nine times.

0:36:59.520 --> 0:37:01.879
<v Speaker 2>We believe that whoever killed him must have known him,

0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:04.480
<v Speaker 2>And so then they began to delve into did he

0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:07.799
<v Speaker 2>have any enemies? Did you know of anybody that was

0:37:08.040 --> 0:37:10.400
<v Speaker 2>looking to harm him, and she said, oh, he was

0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 2>in the repossession business. There are all kinds of people

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.359
<v Speaker 2>that would have liked to have killed him, which they

0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:17.960
<v Speaker 2>thought was a very odd answer. But she never, of course,

0:37:18.040 --> 0:37:22.840
<v Speaker 2>mentions mail powers. And when they discount the burglary story,

0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:26.279
<v Speaker 2>then she tries to float an entirely new theory, which is,

0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:29.319
<v Speaker 2>I think my husband is now a homo sexual. He

0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:31.960
<v Speaker 2>had gone to Europe, and when he came back from

0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Europe he was acting very strange. Just the other night

0:37:35.560 --> 0:37:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I answered the phone and it was somebody from Texas.

0:37:39.600 --> 0:37:42.479
<v Speaker 2>It was one of his Texas boyfriends. The cops didn't

0:37:42.520 --> 0:37:45.040
<v Speaker 2>really buy that story. Either. But I have to mention

0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:47.160
<v Speaker 2>here there was an awful lot of corruption in the

0:37:47.160 --> 0:37:51.440
<v Speaker 2>Miami Dade Sheriff's Department in those days. The lead detective

0:37:51.480 --> 0:37:54.879
<v Speaker 2>on the Moss case turned out to be somebody who

0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:57.480
<v Speaker 2>was in the pocket of the gangster that ran all

0:37:57.520 --> 0:38:01.440
<v Speaker 2>of the gambling enterprises in Miami. He wasn't the only

0:38:01.480 --> 0:38:04.760
<v Speaker 2>one on the force that had connections to organized crime.

0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:07.040
<v Speaker 2>It was just kind of, yeah, you do your thing

0:38:07.080 --> 0:38:10.759
<v Speaker 2>outside of work. That being said, they were very good detectives.

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:13.840
<v Speaker 2>They were very thorough. They wanted to catch the killer.

0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:17.920
<v Speaker 2>Mail Powers made it pretty easy for them. In the apartment,

0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 2>the killer had left bloody handprints by the kitchen sink.

0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:27.399
<v Speaker 2>They immediately matched those handprints to mel because he had

0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a prior record from his arrest in Michigan. Within about

0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:34.640
<v Speaker 2>seven hours they had that identified. Then the car that

0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:38.359
<v Speaker 2>he was driving, this white Chevy, was found parked at

0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:42.240
<v Speaker 2>the airport garage, about fifty feet away from a police

0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:46.480
<v Speaker 2>substation that was inside the airport. Then they find inside

0:38:46.520 --> 0:38:50.080
<v Speaker 2>the white Chevy a parking stub that showed that the

0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:52.480
<v Speaker 2>car had entered the garage at five point thirty nine

0:38:52.520 --> 0:38:55.280
<v Speaker 2>in the morning. So the detectives who are pretty sharp.

0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:58.720
<v Speaker 2>One of them goes into the airlines, and I believe

0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:02.320
<v Speaker 2>it was National Airline in those days, had daily flights

0:39:02.360 --> 0:39:05.640
<v Speaker 2>to Houston from Miami. He goes to the manager of

0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:07.759
<v Speaker 2>the airline desk and asks, can I look at your

0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:11.720
<v Speaker 2>manifest for the last couple of days, particularly this morning,

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:16.319
<v Speaker 2>and he finds the name m. Mossler Powers as a

0:39:16.360 --> 0:39:19.319
<v Speaker 2>passenger on the flight leaving at seven point thirty in

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:23.120
<v Speaker 2>the morning after the murder going back to Houston. He

0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 2>digs a little deeper and he finds that the same

0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:29.440
<v Speaker 2>person flew from Houston to Miami the night of the

0:39:29.560 --> 0:39:33.400
<v Speaker 2>murder and arrived about three hours before the murder occurred.

0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.319
<v Speaker 2>With a little more digging, they find a bartender that

0:39:36.440 --> 0:39:39.520
<v Speaker 2>identified mail Powers as the person who had come into

0:39:39.600 --> 0:39:42.840
<v Speaker 2>his bar killing time, apparently before he went to the

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:47.320
<v Speaker 2>apartment to kill Jock. So within four days, Mail Powers

0:39:47.440 --> 0:39:51.920
<v Speaker 2>is arrested. Unfortunately for the prosecutors, they did not read

0:39:51.960 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 2>them any miranda rights. Oh no, they did not even

0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:57.960
<v Speaker 2>have a valid arrest warrant yet. Because all of this

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:01.719
<v Speaker 2>was occurring on the fourth of July weekend, the courthouse

0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:05.040
<v Speaker 2>was closed. The prosecutors in Miami couldn't even find a

0:40:05.160 --> 0:40:07.680
<v Speaker 2>judge that could issue his arrest warrant. And then, to

0:40:07.760 --> 0:40:09.879
<v Speaker 2>top it all off, the coupdo gra was that they

0:40:10.080 --> 0:40:13.040
<v Speaker 2>finally got a confession out of mel In which he

0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:17.000
<v Speaker 2>admitted killing Mossler. They re tape recorded that confession, but

0:40:17.080 --> 0:40:20.360
<v Speaker 2>again they did not read him as rights, so before

0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:23.080
<v Speaker 2>the trial even begins, the confession is thrown out.

0:40:23.480 --> 0:40:26.600
<v Speaker 3>I mean, now, is he implicating Candace in this and

0:40:26.680 --> 0:40:29.759
<v Speaker 3>admitting to an affair with his aunt not to.

0:40:29.840 --> 0:40:32.759
<v Speaker 2>The police know. He said that Candace is simply his

0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:36.000
<v Speaker 2>business partner. He said that he flew into Miami all

0:40:36.040 --> 0:40:39.320
<v Speaker 2>the time to talk to Jacques about business things, which

0:40:39.360 --> 0:40:42.719
<v Speaker 2>was not true, but they didn't know that at that point.

0:40:42.840 --> 0:40:46.319
<v Speaker 2>But one thing he specifically refused to do in his

0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:49.960
<v Speaker 2>confession was implicate Candace. He says, I know you want

0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:52.279
<v Speaker 2>me to tell on somebody else, and I'm not going

0:40:52.320 --> 0:40:55.120
<v Speaker 2>to do it. So when they get to trial, Candace

0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:58.359
<v Speaker 2>had hired to represent Mail Powers, one of the most

0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:01.080
<v Speaker 2>famous trial lawyers in the United States in those days,

0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:05.800
<v Speaker 2>a man named Percy Foreman Percy. The saying in Houston

0:41:05.920 --> 0:41:08.160
<v Speaker 2>was that if you hired Percy, it was an admission

0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:12.080
<v Speaker 2>of guilt, but he would get you off, and that

0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:14.720
<v Speaker 2>was typically the case. So when they get to trial,

0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Percy had no affection for the truth. He gets up

0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:20.440
<v Speaker 2>and makes his opening statement. It makes a ton of

0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:24.680
<v Speaker 2>wild remarks about Jock Mossler defaming his character. He was

0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:28.120
<v Speaker 2>recruiting young boys out of nightclubs under the name of

0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:31.200
<v Speaker 2>doctor Wilson. He was just making things up. But you've

0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:33.600
<v Speaker 2>got this jury of people that they don't know that

0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:37.359
<v Speaker 2>it's not true. The prosecution made a key mistake in

0:41:37.360 --> 0:41:41.200
<v Speaker 2>my opinion, in that they decided to try both Candace

0:41:41.320 --> 0:41:45.320
<v Speaker 2>and Mel together. They still had, even without the confession,

0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot of evidence against Mel his fingerprints, there was

0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:51.880
<v Speaker 2>blood in this white Chevy that he was driving to

0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:55.280
<v Speaker 2>the airport. When they picked him up in River Oaks.

0:41:55.440 --> 0:41:57.520
<v Speaker 2>They found blood on the clothes that he had worn

0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:01.719
<v Speaker 2>to Miami. He was guilty, red handed, even without a confession.

0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:05.080
<v Speaker 3>But they didn't have anything against Cantas. What one thing

0:42:05.120 --> 0:42:05.800
<v Speaker 3>did They have.

0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Nothing really other than they knew that she was in

0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:11.759
<v Speaker 2>cahoots with him. Now she had created an alibi for

0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:14.799
<v Speaker 2>herself on the night of the murder at a hospital.

0:42:15.320 --> 0:42:19.080
<v Speaker 2>She was always complaining of migraine headaches for four nights

0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.319
<v Speaker 2>in a row. Leading up to the murder, she went

0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:24.760
<v Speaker 2>to the emergency room of a hospital there in Miami,

0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:27.240
<v Speaker 2>and then on the night of the murder, after buying

0:42:27.280 --> 0:42:30.800
<v Speaker 2>these stamps with the children, she went to the same

0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:34.280
<v Speaker 2>hospital and she stayed there until four in the morning,

0:42:35.000 --> 0:42:37.760
<v Speaker 2>well after the murder had occurred. But she kept getting

0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:40.760
<v Speaker 2>phone calls all night long from somebody, and they assumed

0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:43.320
<v Speaker 2>it was mel giving her an up to date report

0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.399
<v Speaker 2>on where he stood in the murder. But they had

0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:48.440
<v Speaker 2>nothing on her that was tangible to convict her with.

0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:51.640
<v Speaker 2>So what they decided to do was they started sainting

0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:54.760
<v Speaker 2>the jails and the they found a bunch of people

0:42:54.800 --> 0:42:58.600
<v Speaker 2>that would testify that Candace had approached them to be

0:42:58.760 --> 0:43:02.400
<v Speaker 2>the hit man to kill Jock Mossler, which sounded like

0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:05.920
<v Speaker 2>a believable story until he started putting these characters on

0:43:05.960 --> 0:43:10.799
<v Speaker 2>the stand. One guy was an habitual heroin attic. He

0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:14.879
<v Speaker 2>called the authorities himself and said, I know Candace Master,

0:43:15.040 --> 0:43:16.880
<v Speaker 2>and I met with her before I came to prison.

0:43:16.920 --> 0:43:20.239
<v Speaker 2>This last time, she offered me money to kill Jock.

0:43:20.600 --> 0:43:22.399
<v Speaker 2>And then there were a couple of other people, one

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:25.440
<v Speaker 2>who had worked on the mast ranch in Galveston, but

0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:29.560
<v Speaker 2>they were all such disreputable characters that you can imagine

0:43:29.560 --> 0:43:32.400
<v Speaker 2>how the defense attorneys made mincemeat of these guys on

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:35.520
<v Speaker 2>the stand, and it really just made Candace look like

0:43:35.600 --> 0:43:38.800
<v Speaker 2>a sympathetic figure before it was over with that she

0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:41.520
<v Speaker 2>the cops were picking on her and trying to railroad

0:43:41.560 --> 0:43:44.520
<v Speaker 2>her into this conviction, so it was a crucial mistake

0:43:44.600 --> 0:43:47.560
<v Speaker 2>on their part. The trial went on for a full month,

0:43:48.120 --> 0:43:52.760
<v Speaker 2>and Candace, being the diva that she was throughout the trial,

0:43:52.880 --> 0:43:56.640
<v Speaker 2>was always commanding attention in her own way. She fainted

0:43:56.680 --> 0:43:58.600
<v Speaker 2>a couple of times, had to be carried out of

0:43:58.640 --> 0:44:02.719
<v Speaker 2>the courtroom, almost threw up one time, and all of

0:44:02.760 --> 0:44:05.399
<v Speaker 2>these things happened, of course when there was testimony being

0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:10.000
<v Speaker 2>given that was unfavorable to her. You could read her

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:12.880
<v Speaker 2>like a book. But the gallery of the trial was

0:44:12.920 --> 0:44:15.919
<v Speaker 2>always filled with a lot of old women who would

0:44:15.920 --> 0:44:18.239
<v Speaker 2>stand in line for two or three hours if they

0:44:18.239 --> 0:44:20.560
<v Speaker 2>had to, to get a seat in the courtroom each day,

0:44:20.840 --> 0:44:23.919
<v Speaker 2>and they were her groupies. They would applaud her when

0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.719
<v Speaker 2>she walked in, and they would compliment her on the

0:44:26.760 --> 0:44:29.920
<v Speaker 2>way that she was dressed and the diamonds that she

0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:32.759
<v Speaker 2>was wearing, and she played it to the hilt. But

0:44:33.040 --> 0:44:35.719
<v Speaker 2>the trial goes on. When they get to the final arguments,

0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:38.440
<v Speaker 2>everybody in the world knows that Candace is not going

0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:39.200
<v Speaker 2>to be convicted.

0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:42.880
<v Speaker 3>Here the surprise was that neither was mel and neither

0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:43.879
<v Speaker 3>takes the stand right.

0:44:44.160 --> 0:44:46.440
<v Speaker 2>No, of course they wouldn't testify. There was always this

0:44:46.600 --> 0:44:49.600
<v Speaker 2>jockey and going on between the attorneys representing the two.

0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:53.120
<v Speaker 2>They each had their own defense team, and they didn't

0:44:53.200 --> 0:44:56.240
<v Speaker 2>like each other. Candace's attorney was a fellow from Houston

0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.640
<v Speaker 2>named Clyde Woodie, who went on to be quite famous

0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:03.160
<v Speaker 2>later himself. Woody and Percy Foreman did not like each other.

0:45:03.200 --> 0:45:05.640
<v Speaker 2>And so you had these guys all sitting at the

0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:09.200
<v Speaker 2>same defense table in the courtroom, and they would see

0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 2>that each other and they would try to out grandstand

0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:14.319
<v Speaker 2>one another and make the other one look silly if

0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:17.600
<v Speaker 2>they could. It was not conducive to a great defense,

0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:21.720
<v Speaker 2>but nonetheless, at worked they were both acquitted, and Candace,

0:45:21.840 --> 0:45:25.359
<v Speaker 2>being glory the attention hog that she was. She called

0:45:25.400 --> 0:45:28.399
<v Speaker 2>a press conference immediately after that at the hotel where

0:45:28.440 --> 0:45:31.640
<v Speaker 2>she had been staying. I failed to mention too, this

0:45:31.760 --> 0:45:35.439
<v Speaker 2>was a nationally covered media trial. It was the OJ

0:45:35.560 --> 0:45:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Simpson trial in its own way, before satellite dishes. But

0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:42.960
<v Speaker 2>she calls this press conference. She has her attorneys there,

0:45:43.040 --> 0:45:46.600
<v Speaker 2>she has all of her children standing behind her. Mail

0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:49.720
<v Speaker 2>powers are seated next to her. The reporters are calling

0:45:49.760 --> 0:45:52.120
<v Speaker 2>out for them to kiss each other. She didn't know

0:45:52.120 --> 0:45:55.680
<v Speaker 2>when to leave well enough alone. She had to pontificate

0:45:55.719 --> 0:45:58.879
<v Speaker 2>about how this was all of miscarriage of justice and

0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:01.600
<v Speaker 2>she was just so for her poor children that she

0:46:01.719 --> 0:46:03.319
<v Speaker 2>was going to be able to go home with them.

0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:07.160
<v Speaker 3>Wow, oh man, And so does she get everything? Does

0:46:07.200 --> 0:46:09.320
<v Speaker 3>she get all of the money because they're not divorced?

0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:12.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh yes, oh my gosh, all of it? And what

0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:13.719
<v Speaker 3>do you think the tag was on that? How much

0:46:13.719 --> 0:46:14.840
<v Speaker 3>money are we talking about?

0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, in its day it was probably about ten million dollars,

0:46:19.239 --> 0:46:22.520
<v Speaker 2>which today who knows? It was a lot of money.

0:46:22.560 --> 0:46:24.799
<v Speaker 2>And again, growing up in Houston, I used to see

0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:27.680
<v Speaker 2>things that she would do with her money. She would

0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:30.360
<v Speaker 2>take billboards out on the freeways in Houston when the

0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:33.920
<v Speaker 2>Rodeo would come to town with a big photograph of Candice

0:46:33.960 --> 0:46:38.120
<v Speaker 2>wearing a cowboy hat, all these expensive outfits and welcoming

0:46:38.160 --> 0:46:41.160
<v Speaker 2>to people to the rodeo, Welcome to Houston. She was

0:46:41.200 --> 0:46:43.840
<v Speaker 2>not popular with anybody that she served on any of

0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:46.680
<v Speaker 2>those committees with but she was bound to get attention.

0:46:47.440 --> 0:46:49.680
<v Speaker 2>The rest of her life was really sad. She and

0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:51.759
<v Speaker 2>Mail did stay together after all of.

0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:55.840
<v Speaker 3>This, Oh my gosh, seriously really yeah, for about.

0:46:55.880 --> 0:46:58.799
<v Speaker 2>Two or three years. He's living in the mansion there

0:46:58.800 --> 0:47:01.879
<v Speaker 2>on Willowick Road and River Oaks with her. The thing

0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:04.799
<v Speaker 2>that always found me, I found so disgusting was that

0:47:04.840 --> 0:47:07.880
<v Speaker 2>she had these young children. They're living in the house

0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:10.839
<v Speaker 2>with all this going on. Eventually she sent them all

0:47:10.840 --> 0:47:13.719
<v Speaker 2>to school in Switzerland so that two of them could

0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:17.080
<v Speaker 2>have the mention to themselves. She and Mail broke up.

0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:20.040
<v Speaker 2>She claimed that he beat her up one night he

0:47:20.120 --> 0:47:22.480
<v Speaker 2>went to Mexico was arrested when he tried to come

0:47:22.480 --> 0:47:25.080
<v Speaker 2>back into the country because there was a warrant for

0:47:25.120 --> 0:47:27.920
<v Speaker 2>his arrest. But then she dropped the charges when she

0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:30.279
<v Speaker 2>realized that they were both going to have to testify.

0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:33.560
<v Speaker 2>She was going to have to testify against him. She

0:47:33.560 --> 0:47:35.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't like where that was going, with the kinds of

0:47:35.680 --> 0:47:39.000
<v Speaker 2>questions that she might be asked about their life together

0:47:39.280 --> 0:47:43.719
<v Speaker 2>for all these years, so they broke up. She remarried

0:47:43.920 --> 0:47:46.760
<v Speaker 2>another man. He didn't come to a happy ending either.

0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:51.000
<v Speaker 2>He ran some nightclubs. He was about twenty years younger

0:47:51.040 --> 0:47:53.400
<v Speaker 2>than she was. They had an argument one night, he

0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:56.560
<v Speaker 2>went out and got drunk. He came back and she

0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:59.120
<v Speaker 2>had locked him out of the house. So he went

0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:00.960
<v Speaker 2>to the back of the house and was trying to

0:48:01.000 --> 0:48:04.279
<v Speaker 2>climb up to the third floor, where the bedroom was.

0:48:04.600 --> 0:48:07.560
<v Speaker 2>He almost made it, but there was a slate roof

0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:11.400
<v Speaker 2>and he started to slide. He lost his grip. He

0:48:11.560 --> 0:48:15.840
<v Speaker 2>fell three stories and landed head first on a metal table.

0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:19.799
<v Speaker 2>It did not kill him, but it's severely It did

0:48:19.840 --> 0:48:24.240
<v Speaker 2>severe brain damage, and so she eventually divorced him because

0:48:24.400 --> 0:48:26.880
<v Speaker 2>they couldn't live together. He was always in rehab for

0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:29.640
<v Speaker 2>the rest of his life, and she herself died in

0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:32.080
<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy seven of a drug.

0:48:31.880 --> 0:48:35.359
<v Speaker 1>Overdose intentional or accidental.

0:48:35.800 --> 0:48:38.480
<v Speaker 2>No, I believe it was accidental. By this point, she

0:48:38.640 --> 0:48:42.520
<v Speaker 2>was doctor shopping like nobody's business. She had a lot

0:48:42.560 --> 0:48:46.000
<v Speaker 2>of doctors in Houston and another one in Miami. She

0:48:46.040 --> 0:48:50.759
<v Speaker 2>would always buy them expensive things like Jaguar xkes and

0:48:50.880 --> 0:48:54.320
<v Speaker 2>things that just for them prescribing the medicine that she wanted.

0:48:54.520 --> 0:48:56.920
<v Speaker 2>She ended up dying in a hotel room at the

0:48:56.960 --> 0:49:01.279
<v Speaker 2>Fountain Blue in Miami. She fell as sleep rolled over

0:49:01.320 --> 0:49:05.280
<v Speaker 2>onto a pillow, and she was so heavily sedated self

0:49:05.320 --> 0:49:09.680
<v Speaker 2>sedated that she could not breathe and wasn't alert enough

0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:12.600
<v Speaker 2>to roll over and start breathing again, and so she

0:49:12.760 --> 0:49:14.959
<v Speaker 2>died at the age of fifty seven.

0:49:15.400 --> 0:49:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Ron there's nobody good in this story.

0:49:17.960 --> 0:49:21.280
<v Speaker 3>I mean, the cops, I know you in the book

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.560
<v Speaker 3>have redeemable characters, but just looking on from the outside,

0:49:24.680 --> 0:49:28.319
<v Speaker 3>the cops are bumbling. The prosecutor is not making good decisions.

0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:32.120
<v Speaker 3>You have mel, you have Candace, and then you have

0:49:32.440 --> 0:49:36.800
<v Speaker 3>quite frankly, not a very sympathetic victim in Jock Muscler.

0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:40.759
<v Speaker 3>So where do you go in a book to make

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:42.680
<v Speaker 3>people want to get to the end of the book?

0:49:42.960 --> 0:49:46.080
<v Speaker 3>What is that thing that you have to get across

0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:48.040
<v Speaker 3>about why this story is important?

0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's important. It was important to me

0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:53.160
<v Speaker 2>personally because, as I said earlier, that was the story

0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:56.960
<v Speaker 2>that really taught me how to follow criminal trials and

0:49:57.040 --> 0:50:00.680
<v Speaker 2>just how they're really a microcosm of the human condition

0:50:00.880 --> 0:50:04.040
<v Speaker 2>of you have a lot of bad people in the world.

0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:07.320
<v Speaker 2>Obviously you have some people that are vindicated at trial,

0:50:07.360 --> 0:50:10.480
<v Speaker 2>but that wasn't the case here. Obviously. I think it

0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:12.759
<v Speaker 2>was just a matter of I wanted to tell this

0:50:12.880 --> 0:50:17.040
<v Speaker 2>story simply because it had a lot of historical context.

0:50:17.120 --> 0:50:20.160
<v Speaker 2>I tried throughout the book to tie it into some

0:50:20.640 --> 0:50:23.200
<v Speaker 2>topical events that were going on at the same time.

0:50:23.560 --> 0:50:25.560
<v Speaker 2>A lot of people would have no idea if they've

0:50:25.600 --> 0:50:28.440
<v Speaker 2>never heard of Candace musterl just how well known she

0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:32.400
<v Speaker 2>was because of this murder trial. There was one newspaper

0:50:32.520 --> 0:50:36.040
<v Speaker 2>editor who made the remark that only Candice Master could

0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:39.480
<v Speaker 2>knock Jaqueline Kennedy off the front page, and it was

0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:42.840
<v Speaker 2>true as despicable it was. There were also newspapers in

0:50:42.880 --> 0:50:46.080
<v Speaker 2>the country that midway through the trial began to stop

0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:49.759
<v Speaker 2>covering it because of the salacious material that readers were

0:50:49.800 --> 0:50:53.640
<v Speaker 2>complaining that I don't want to read about these ancestual relationships,

0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:56.880
<v Speaker 2>but I can tell you, living in Houston, boy, it

0:50:56.920 --> 0:50:58.680
<v Speaker 2>was on the news every night and be laid it.

0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:02.239
<v Speaker 3>Up well in this I'm ment I feel like I'm

0:51:02.239 --> 0:51:05.080
<v Speaker 3>really throwing out a wild pitch here, But tell me

0:51:05.880 --> 0:51:08.759
<v Speaker 3>that Rita and the other kids got her money and

0:51:08.840 --> 0:51:11.839
<v Speaker 3>somebody did something good with all of this money that

0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:15.640
<v Speaker 3>just seemed to cause so much trauma in so many

0:51:15.640 --> 0:51:16.520
<v Speaker 3>family lives.

0:51:16.920 --> 0:51:21.879
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that did happen, especially with Rita. After Candace died,

0:51:21.920 --> 0:51:25.600
<v Speaker 2>there was a probate hearing in which it was finally

0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:29.960
<v Speaker 2>confirmed that she was the child of Winthrop Rockefeller. Candace

0:51:29.960 --> 0:51:33.160
<v Speaker 2>had a falling out with three of the four children

0:51:33.239 --> 0:51:36.319
<v Speaker 2>that had been adopted. Her own son died within a

0:51:36.360 --> 0:51:39.520
<v Speaker 2>few months after her death, so that really left Rita

0:51:39.560 --> 0:51:43.720
<v Speaker 2>and these the adopted children. She disinherited two of the boys.

0:51:44.080 --> 0:51:47.560
<v Speaker 2>The daughter, Martha, moved away and really wanted nothing much

0:51:47.600 --> 0:51:51.840
<v Speaker 2>to do with Candace. But Rita was put in place

0:51:51.920 --> 0:51:56.000
<v Speaker 2>to run the banks. She was, by all accounts, a

0:51:56.080 --> 0:52:01.560
<v Speaker 2>very good business person, and she currently livesically on Kivas

0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:05.000
<v Speaker 2>Gain and one of the high rise towers there, and

0:52:05.520 --> 0:52:09.520
<v Speaker 2>she and her husband are very generous with a lot

0:52:09.560 --> 0:52:12.759
<v Speaker 2>of the charities, particularly those having to do with the

0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Red Cross and heart disease. So I can say that, yes,

0:52:16.680 --> 0:52:26.400
<v Speaker 2>the money was eventually used for some good things.

0:52:30.719 --> 0:52:33.600
<v Speaker 3>If you love historical true crime stories, check out the

0:52:33.640 --> 0:52:36.520
<v Speaker 3>audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That

0:52:36.640 --> 0:52:39.879
<v Speaker 3>Is Wicked, and American Sherlock, and Don't Forget. There are

0:52:39.960 --> 0:52:43.719
<v Speaker 3>twelve seasons of my historical true crime podcast, Tenfold More

0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:47.400
<v Speaker 3>Wicked right here in this podcast feed. Scroll back and

0:52:47.440 --> 0:52:50.200
<v Speaker 3>give them a listen if you haven't already. This has

0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:54.759
<v Speaker 3>been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alexis M. Morosi.

0:52:55.120 --> 0:52:59.560
<v Speaker 3>Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed

0:52:59.560 --> 0:53:03.440
<v Speaker 3>by On Bradley. Curtis heath is our composer. Artwork by

0:53:03.640 --> 0:53:08.040
<v Speaker 3>Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff and

0:53:08.120 --> 0:53:12.480
<v Speaker 3>Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram at tenfold More

0:53:12.520 --> 0:53:15.840
<v Speaker 3>Wicked and on Facebook at Wicked Words Pod.