Speaker 1: Just ten days ago, President Trump tweeted that quote. It
Speaker 1: is now commonly agreed, after months of costly looking, that
Speaker 1: there was no collusion between Russia and Trump unquote. But
Speaker 1: since then, Special Counsel Robert Mueller has unsealed indictments of
Speaker 1: Trump campaign officials Paul Manafort and Rick Gates, and the
Speaker 1: cooperation agreement of campaign foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos, who
Speaker 1: has told prosecutors he tried to arrange a meeting between
Speaker 1: the campaign and representatives of the Russian government. And this weekend,
Speaker 1: NBC reported that Mueller's office has evident has enough evidence
Speaker 1: to bring charges against former National Security advisor Michael Flynn
Speaker 1: and Flynn's son. Here to talk with us about uh,
Speaker 1: Michael Flynn, the Mueller investigation and where it might be
Speaker 1: going are William Banks, a professor at Syracuse University Law School,
Speaker 1: and Andrew Kent, a professor at Fordham University School of Law. Andrew,
Speaker 1: what do we know about what the Special counsel is
Speaker 1: looking at Michael Flynn and his son for Oh, haven't
Speaker 1: had anything that I've seen come directly from Muller's office,
Speaker 1: but certainly based on what's been reported in the press,
Speaker 1: over the last six months. I think we have a
Speaker 1: pretty good idea of what it might be. UM. I
Speaker 1: think probably the most likely thing would be a charge
Speaker 1: related to his acting as UM an agent of the
Speaker 1: Turkish Turkish government without registering with the Department of Justice,
Speaker 1: as he's required to by federal law. You know, you
Speaker 1: might recall about six months ago, there's a pretty stunning
Speaker 1: report in the Wall Street Journal, then corroborated by some
Speaker 1: other outlets that Flynn in September year, pretty soon before
Speaker 1: the election, when he was acting as as Trump's main
Speaker 1: foreign policy advisor, had a meeting with representatives of the
Speaker 1: Turkish government about it seemingly how to extra legally spirit
Speaker 1: out of the country out of the United States a
Speaker 1: U S. Green card holder who's a person of Turkish
Speaker 1: descent who opposes the heir to one government. And Flynn
Speaker 1: only very belatedly registered as a foreign agent UM. And
Speaker 1: just the seemingly pretty clear failure to register in the
Speaker 1: in the pretty clear law that says you have to
Speaker 1: register within ten days of becoming a foreign agent. It's
Speaker 1: just immediately say, that's pretty low hanging fruit for Mullah
Speaker 1: and Bill. The fact that Flynn's son is also under investigation.
Speaker 1: Is that something that prosecutors might use to try to
Speaker 1: get him to flip. I've seen it with husbands and wives. Well,
Speaker 1: that's right. I think it's likely that that's what's going
Speaker 1: on as we await possible indictments against Flynn and or
Speaker 1: his son. Flynn could help his son here and return
Speaker 1: for offering more information to the to the team. UH
Speaker 1: Flynn Jr. Was at most of the meetings that Flynn
Speaker 1: was at UH and involved in most of the activities
Speaker 1: that that and was just discussing with throughout Flint. So
Speaker 1: UH Flynn Jr. Is in legal trouble too as well
Speaker 1: as his father Andrew, based on the what we've now
Speaker 1: learned in the last week or so about the way
Speaker 1: the special counsel is bringing charges. I mean, if he
Speaker 1: had enough, if it's come out now that he has
Speaker 1: enough evidence to bring charges against Flynn, it can't be that,
Speaker 1: you know, this just suddenly happened. Um. One would think
Speaker 1: he's known that for a while. So it would appears
Speaker 1: he's making decisions about what order to charge people in
Speaker 1: and for what. So we have these Manifort and Gates
Speaker 1: indictments and now we're finding out about Flynn, what what
Speaker 1: can you discern from all this about the way in
Speaker 1: which he's trying to play a strategy out in this investigation. Well,
Speaker 1: a number of people saw the distinction between the Manafort
Speaker 1: charges and then what happened with Pophidopolis as trying to
Speaker 1: send a message to people in Flynn's shoes. And so
Speaker 1: Manafort had seemingly failed to cooperate with Mueller and he
Speaker 1: really got slammed in terms of the number of charges filed,
Speaker 1: and Mueller is seeking a lot of forfeiture from from
Speaker 1: Manafort engaged as well. Popping Offlas on the other hand,
Speaker 1: came off with, you know, just one charge and you know,
Speaker 1: we don't know anything about sentencing exposure, but probably could
Speaker 1: end up with very little, if any jail time. Perhaps,
Speaker 1: So a lot of people saw that as saying, you know,
Speaker 1: get on the right side of this, cooperate with with
Speaker 1: Mueller's probe, and we will treat you fairly. And certainly,
Speaker 1: Michael Flynn is somebody who's been extremely close to Trump
Speaker 1: going way back on the campaign and then obviously served
Speaker 1: as his national security advisor. Seems like somebody who has
Speaker 1: a large amount of information and so he would probably
Speaker 1: be precisely the type of person that Mueller would be
Speaker 1: sending those signals to. UM. You know, cooperate and and
Speaker 1: you know, get some lesser charges or if not, we're
Speaker 1: going to really throw the book at you. What do
Speaker 1: you think of that, Bill, and quickly? Do you agree
Speaker 1: that that's the way he's going It does look like that.
Speaker 1: I agree with Andrew. I think that you know, certainly,
Speaker 1: in PLNS case, he's been looking at this investigation and
Speaker 1: stewing about his plight since February so most of the
Speaker 1: year now, as of course as his son to a
Speaker 1: vested degree, and he certainly he and his latins understand
Speaker 1: the strategy that Mueller's teams following. It's a very methodical,
Speaker 1: UH strategy, and it is one I think clearly sims
Speaker 1: the signals that Andrew mentioned, that is, if you cooperate,
Speaker 1: you're going to be in far better shape personally than
Speaker 1: if you stonewall Bill. You know this. Now with with Flynn,
Speaker 1: you've got a report that the Special Council is looking
Speaker 1: directly at the president's White House staff rather than just
Speaker 1: people who worked on the campaign. UM. There was also
Speaker 1: reports last week that Jared Kushner has turned over a
Speaker 1: lot of documents to the Special Counsel's office and that
Speaker 1: the investigation maybe looking at him given what we know
Speaker 1: about the way that Special Council Mueller is proceeding. You know,
Speaker 1: does Kushner have vulnerabilities that the Special Council may be
Speaker 1: able to exploit here? I think he does. I think
Speaker 1: he does, as does Trump Junior Donald Jr. Because the
Speaker 1: evidence of collusion with Russians continues to UH multiply even
Speaker 1: with the Commerce secretaries stories over the weekend of connections
Speaker 1: to a company in Russian dealings are just ever more
Speaker 1: indications that there was involvement between the campaign UH and
Speaker 1: Russians of all sorts of testimony in Congress that's building
Speaker 1: up over the Facebook and other social media uses by
Speaker 1: Russian influences and Russian financiers. Uh, it's a snowball in
Speaker 1: the snowball I think is gathering some momentum here, Andrew.
Speaker 1: In white color cases, people are often charged because they
Speaker 1: lied to the FBI. That's still a felony, even though
Speaker 1: people may say, oh, that's not such a big crime.
Speaker 1: But in this case, do we see Muller using something
Speaker 1: similar When with the indictment of Man of Fort and Gates,
Speaker 1: and the information against George Papadopoulos was based online to
Speaker 1: the FBI in part. And could he be mulling filing
Speaker 1: against either Flynn or Jared Kushner about papers that they
Speaker 1: had to file for security clearance or national foreign agent
Speaker 1: papers and lying on them. Absolutely, those, uh, those possibilities
Speaker 1: you mentioned are live ones. And then I would add
Speaker 1: to that that you know, it's been reported for a
Speaker 1: question time now that the FBI talked to Michael Flynn
Speaker 1: about his conversations during the transition period with the Russian
Speaker 1: ambassador kiss Leak, and at least according to you know,
Speaker 1: I think it was the New York Times and Washington Post,
Speaker 1: Flynn was received by the FBI to have been very
Speaker 1: misleading about his communications with kiss Leak. And you know,
Speaker 1: ligne to the FBI is also a felony under the
Speaker 1: same statute. So yeah, you're correct that those you know,
Speaker 1: those kinds of charges are very common in white collar cases,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Flynn
Speaker 1: get charged with one or more misstatements to the federal government.
Speaker 1: Bill is um. You know. Another angle on this is
Speaker 1: that another form or foreign policy advisor besides Papadopolis. A
Speaker 1: guy named Carter Page who has been on television a
Speaker 1: lot and who has um who has also just did
Speaker 1: six hours testifying before Congress in regard to you know,
Speaker 1: these matters, and he said that he has He had
Speaker 1: mentioned too now Attorney General Jeff Sessions during the campaign
Speaker 1: that he had a trip to Russia, uh planned and
Speaker 1: was going. Is there now jeopardy to Sessions as well?
Speaker 1: As part of this investigation? I think there is. I
Speaker 1: think ass Andrews suggested that all statements are are violations
Speaker 1: of federal law, and Sessions I think was selective in
Speaker 1: his memory when he last testified publicly about these things.
Speaker 1: And uh, and I think he's the selectivity of his
Speaker 1: memory maybe further tested here in the in the coming
Speaker 1: weeks and months, because he was privy to these discussions
Speaker 1: as well. There's one other person, of course, is when
Speaker 1: Andrew's going through the various ways in which Flynn might
Speaker 1: be vulnerable on on false statements. So there's one other
Speaker 1: person he apparently lied to, and that was the Vice
Speaker 1: President Andrew. They're also Carter Page. Though he did answer questions,
Speaker 1: he invoked the Fifth Amendment in refusing to produce documents
Speaker 1: during the interview. Once you once you start speaking, don't
Speaker 1: you wave your right to the Fifth Amendment somewhat? You know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a complicated area, but you know, once
Speaker 1: you voluntarily disclosed some information, generally speaking, you've waived your
Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment right as to the same subject matter. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know enough about the particulars of
Speaker 1: you know, what what carter Page was willing to say
Speaker 1: and what he was refusing to say, but certainly it
Speaker 1: sounds like there might be arguments about waiver. You know, probably, uh,
Speaker 1: there'll be a judicial decision at some point about the
Speaker 1: scope of this um. You know, that's relatively common in
Speaker 1: grand jury investigations for there to be privileged issues that
Speaker 1: get brief to the court, and you know, you get
Speaker 1: a judicial decision on what kinds of documents are going
Speaker 1: to be produced or what kinds of questions can be
Speaker 1: asked or not. Well. Our thanks to William Banks of
Speaker 1: Syracuse University Law School and Andrew kent Afford HM University
Speaker 1: School of Law for being here to talk with us
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Law about the Special Counsel's ongoing investigation, which
Speaker 1: has seems to have been heating up for some time now,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we're gonna be talking about that a
Speaker 1: lot going forward.