WEBVTT - Flynn in Focus as Mueller Investigation Moves Forward (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Just ten days ago, President Trump tweeted that quote. It

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<v Speaker 1>is now commonly agreed, after months of costly looking, that

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<v Speaker 1>there was no collusion between Russia and Trump unquote. But

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<v Speaker 1>since then, Special Counsel Robert Mueller has unsealed indictments of

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<v Speaker 1>Trump campaign officials Paul Manafort and Rick Gates, and the

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<v Speaker 1>cooperation agreement of campaign foreign policy advisor George Papadopoulos, who

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<v Speaker 1>has told prosecutors he tried to arrange a meeting between

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<v Speaker 1>the campaign and representatives of the Russian government. And this weekend,

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<v Speaker 1>NBC reported that Mueller's office has evident has enough evidence

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<v Speaker 1>to bring charges against former National Security advisor Michael Flynn

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<v Speaker 1>and Flynn's son. Here to talk with us about uh,

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Flynn, the Mueller investigation and where it might be

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<v Speaker 1>going are William Banks, a professor at Syracuse University Law School,

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<v Speaker 1>and Andrew Kent, a professor at Fordham University School of Law. Andrew,

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<v Speaker 1>what do we know about what the Special counsel is

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<v Speaker 1>looking at Michael Flynn and his son for Oh, haven't

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<v Speaker 1>had anything that I've seen come directly from Muller's office,

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<v Speaker 1>but certainly based on what's been reported in the press,

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<v Speaker 1>over the last six months. I think we have a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty good idea of what it might be. UM. I

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<v Speaker 1>think probably the most likely thing would be a charge

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<v Speaker 1>related to his acting as UM an agent of the

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<v Speaker 1>Turkish Turkish government without registering with the Department of Justice,

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<v Speaker 1>as he's required to by federal law. You know, you

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<v Speaker 1>might recall about six months ago, there's a pretty stunning

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<v Speaker 1>report in the Wall Street Journal, then corroborated by some

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<v Speaker 1>other outlets that Flynn in September year, pretty soon before

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<v Speaker 1>the election, when he was acting as as Trump's main

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<v Speaker 1>foreign policy advisor, had a meeting with representatives of the

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<v Speaker 1>Turkish government about it seemingly how to extra legally spirit

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<v Speaker 1>out of the country out of the United States a

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<v Speaker 1>U S. Green card holder who's a person of Turkish

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<v Speaker 1>descent who opposes the heir to one government. And Flynn

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<v Speaker 1>only very belatedly registered as a foreign agent UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>just the seemingly pretty clear failure to register in the

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<v Speaker 1>in the pretty clear law that says you have to

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<v Speaker 1>register within ten days of becoming a foreign agent. It's

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<v Speaker 1>just immediately say, that's pretty low hanging fruit for Mullah

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<v Speaker 1>and Bill. The fact that Flynn's son is also under investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that something that prosecutors might use to try to

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<v Speaker 1>get him to flip. I've seen it with husbands and wives. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>that's right. I think it's likely that that's what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on as we await possible indictments against Flynn and or

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<v Speaker 1>his son. Flynn could help his son here and return

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<v Speaker 1>for offering more information to the to the team. UH

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<v Speaker 1>Flynn Jr. Was at most of the meetings that Flynn

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<v Speaker 1>was at UH and involved in most of the activities

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<v Speaker 1>that that and was just discussing with throughout Flint. So

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<v Speaker 1>UH Flynn Jr. Is in legal trouble too as well

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<v Speaker 1>as his father Andrew, based on the what we've now

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<v Speaker 1>learned in the last week or so about the way

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<v Speaker 1>the special counsel is bringing charges. I mean, if he

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<v Speaker 1>had enough, if it's come out now that he has

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<v Speaker 1>enough evidence to bring charges against Flynn, it can't be that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, this just suddenly happened. Um. One would think

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<v Speaker 1>he's known that for a while. So it would appears

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<v Speaker 1>he's making decisions about what order to charge people in

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<v Speaker 1>and for what. So we have these Manifort and Gates

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<v Speaker 1>indictments and now we're finding out about Flynn, what what

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<v Speaker 1>can you discern from all this about the way in

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<v Speaker 1>which he's trying to play a strategy out in this investigation. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>a number of people saw the distinction between the Manafort

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<v Speaker 1>charges and then what happened with Pophidopolis as trying to

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<v Speaker 1>send a message to people in Flynn's shoes. And so

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<v Speaker 1>Manafort had seemingly failed to cooperate with Mueller and he

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<v Speaker 1>really got slammed in terms of the number of charges filed,

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<v Speaker 1>and Mueller is seeking a lot of forfeiture from from

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<v Speaker 1>Manafort engaged as well. Popping Offlas on the other hand,

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<v Speaker 1>came off with, you know, just one charge and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't know anything about sentencing exposure, but probably could

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<v Speaker 1>end up with very little, if any jail time. Perhaps,

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<v Speaker 1>So a lot of people saw that as saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>get on the right side of this, cooperate with with

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller's probe, and we will treat you fairly. And certainly,

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<v Speaker 1>Michael Flynn is somebody who's been extremely close to Trump

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<v Speaker 1>going way back on the campaign and then obviously served

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<v Speaker 1>as his national security advisor. Seems like somebody who has

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<v Speaker 1>a large amount of information and so he would probably

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<v Speaker 1>be precisely the type of person that Mueller would be

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<v Speaker 1>sending those signals to. UM. You know, cooperate and and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, get some lesser charges or if not, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to really throw the book at you. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you think of that, Bill, and quickly? Do you agree

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<v Speaker 1>that that's the way he's going It does look like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree with Andrew. I think that you know, certainly,

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<v Speaker 1>in PLNS case, he's been looking at this investigation and

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<v Speaker 1>stewing about his plight since February so most of the

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<v Speaker 1>year now, as of course as his son to a

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<v Speaker 1>vested degree, and he certainly he and his latins understand

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<v Speaker 1>the strategy that Mueller's teams following. It's a very methodical,

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<v Speaker 1>UH strategy, and it is one I think clearly sims

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<v Speaker 1>the signals that Andrew mentioned, that is, if you cooperate,

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to be in far better shape personally than

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<v Speaker 1>if you stonewall Bill. You know this. Now with with Flynn,

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<v Speaker 1>you've got a report that the Special Council is looking

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<v Speaker 1>directly at the president's White House staff rather than just

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<v Speaker 1>people who worked on the campaign. UM. There was also

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<v Speaker 1>reports last week that Jared Kushner has turned over a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of documents to the Special Counsel's office and that

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<v Speaker 1>the investigation maybe looking at him given what we know

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<v Speaker 1>about the way that Special Council Mueller is proceeding. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>does Kushner have vulnerabilities that the Special Council may be

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<v Speaker 1>able to exploit here? I think he does. I think

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<v Speaker 1>he does, as does Trump Junior Donald Jr. Because the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence of collusion with Russians continues to UH multiply even

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<v Speaker 1>with the Commerce secretaries stories over the weekend of connections

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<v Speaker 1>to a company in Russian dealings are just ever more

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<v Speaker 1>indications that there was involvement between the campaign UH and

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<v Speaker 1>Russians of all sorts of testimony in Congress that's building

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<v Speaker 1>up over the Facebook and other social media uses by

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<v Speaker 1>Russian influences and Russian financiers. Uh, it's a snowball in

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<v Speaker 1>the snowball I think is gathering some momentum here, Andrew.

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<v Speaker 1>In white color cases, people are often charged because they

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<v Speaker 1>lied to the FBI. That's still a felony, even though

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<v Speaker 1>people may say, oh, that's not such a big crime.

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<v Speaker 1>But in this case, do we see Muller using something

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<v Speaker 1>similar When with the indictment of Man of Fort and Gates,

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<v Speaker 1>and the information against George Papadopoulos was based online to

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI in part. And could he be mulling filing

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<v Speaker 1>against either Flynn or Jared Kushner about papers that they

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<v Speaker 1>had to file for security clearance or national foreign agent

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<v Speaker 1>papers and lying on them. Absolutely, those, uh, those possibilities

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned are live ones. And then I would add

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<v Speaker 1>to that that you know, it's been reported for a

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<v Speaker 1>question time now that the FBI talked to Michael Flynn

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<v Speaker 1>about his conversations during the transition period with the Russian

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<v Speaker 1>ambassador kiss Leak, and at least according to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it was the New York Times and Washington Post,

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<v Speaker 1>Flynn was received by the FBI to have been very

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<v Speaker 1>misleading about his communications with kiss Leak. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>ligne to the FBI is also a felony under the

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<v Speaker 1>same statute. So yeah, you're correct that those you know,

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<v Speaker 1>those kinds of charges are very common in white collar cases,

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<v Speaker 1>and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Flynn

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<v Speaker 1>get charged with one or more misstatements to the federal government.

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<v Speaker 1>Bill is um. You know. Another angle on this is

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<v Speaker 1>that another form or foreign policy advisor besides Papadopolis. A

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<v Speaker 1>guy named Carter Page who has been on television a

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<v Speaker 1>lot and who has um who has also just did

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<v Speaker 1>six hours testifying before Congress in regard to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>these matters, and he said that he has He had

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned too now Attorney General Jeff Sessions during the campaign

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<v Speaker 1>that he had a trip to Russia, uh planned and

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<v Speaker 1>was going. Is there now jeopardy to Sessions as well?

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<v Speaker 1>As part of this investigation? I think there is. I

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<v Speaker 1>think ass Andrews suggested that all statements are are violations

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<v Speaker 1>of federal law, and Sessions I think was selective in

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<v Speaker 1>his memory when he last testified publicly about these things.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh, and I think he's the selectivity of his

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<v Speaker 1>memory maybe further tested here in the in the coming

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<v Speaker 1>weeks and months, because he was privy to these discussions

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<v Speaker 1>as well. There's one other person, of course, is when

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<v Speaker 1>Andrew's going through the various ways in which Flynn might

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<v Speaker 1>be vulnerable on on false statements. So there's one other

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<v Speaker 1>person he apparently lied to, and that was the Vice

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<v Speaker 1>President Andrew. They're also Carter Page. Though he did answer questions,

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<v Speaker 1>he invoked the Fifth Amendment in refusing to produce documents

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<v Speaker 1>during the interview. Once you once you start speaking, don't

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<v Speaker 1>you wave your right to the Fifth Amendment somewhat? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a it's a complicated area, but you know, once

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<v Speaker 1>you voluntarily disclosed some information, generally speaking, you've waived your

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<v Speaker 1>Fifth Amendment right as to the same subject matter. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't know enough about the particulars of

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what what carter Page was willing to say

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<v Speaker 1>and what he was refusing to say, but certainly it

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<v Speaker 1>sounds like there might be arguments about waiver. You know, probably, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>there'll be a judicial decision at some point about the

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<v Speaker 1>scope of this um. You know, that's relatively common in

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<v Speaker 1>grand jury investigations for there to be privileged issues that

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<v Speaker 1>get brief to the court, and you know, you get

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<v Speaker 1>a judicial decision on what kinds of documents are going

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<v Speaker 1>to be produced or what kinds of questions can be

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<v Speaker 1>asked or not. Well. Our thanks to William Banks of

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<v Speaker 1>Syracuse University Law School and Andrew kent Afford HM University

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<v Speaker 1>School of Law for being here to talk with us

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<v Speaker 1>on Bloomberg Law about the Special Counsel's ongoing investigation, which

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<v Speaker 1>has seems to have been heating up for some time now,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure we're gonna be talking about that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot going forward.