Speaker 1: Also media, Oh boy, howdy, what's killing my patients?
Speaker 2: This is behind the bastards. The podcast that just I
Speaker 2: would say, heroically allowed doctor cave joa our guest for today,
Speaker 2: to save a life before coming here. We didn't didn't
Speaker 2: demand that that a man die for the sake of
Speaker 2: meeting our podcast schedule. And I think we deserve an
Speaker 2: award for that.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what very gracious, you were
Speaker 3: very gracious about that. He thanks you, I thank you,
Speaker 3: We all thank you for that. And I did have
Speaker 3: to run it by gohand that is correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's you know, if you have a if
Speaker 2: you know anyone on the Noel Committee, hit him up.
Speaker 2: You know, we'll take a Webby Presidential Award of Freedom,
Speaker 2: any of them, any of them. You know, I'm good
Speaker 2: with whatever. And he got all of all of the
Speaker 2: Egot awards.
Speaker 4: We take a.
Speaker 5: Web Award for freedom. That's how that's how I know.
Speaker 5: I'm the only person on this call that has a Webby, So.
Speaker 3: You're the only person on this award.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite through lines. You know, we are
Speaker 2: periodically fielding kind of pitches and stuff from from folks
Speaker 2: in the television industry. And I'm hopeful that, you know,
Speaker 2: one of these days, will figure out how to make
Speaker 2: TV shows and stuff off of some of the stuff
Speaker 2: we're doing. But in all of these pitch decks, people
Speaker 2: keep describing me as an award winning journalist and folks.
Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, really fun hims and them's. I have
Speaker 3: never received an award for anything, nor do I expect to, Hey, you.
Speaker 5: Win the award of being the best business partner ever
Speaker 5: from me.
Speaker 2: I got the only award that really matters to me, which, Wow,
Speaker 2: Sophie's turned on a zoom bucket, so when she says.
Speaker 3: Certain things, fireworks go on behind her and interrupt, but I.
Speaker 4: Don't know I was doing it, so it just keeps happening.
Speaker 5: And it's really just just makes me seem so much
Speaker 5: cooler than I am.
Speaker 2: I was. I was leaving a nightclub in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: This was seven or eight years ago, and I had
Speaker 2: had far too much to drink, and outside the nightclub
Speaker 2: was like the best dressed man I've ever seen in
Speaker 2: my life. He had a waistcoat on, everything like shown
Speaker 2: but not too much incredible, like custom leather boots, and
Speaker 2: I vomited into a trash can in front of him,
Speaker 2: and he said, good work, buddy, And that's the only
Speaker 2: award I ever need. You know, I don't know anything
Speaker 2: about that guy, but he was cool and he saw
Speaker 2: he saw that I made it all into the trash can,
Speaker 2: and he was like, this man's a fellow soul, a
Speaker 2: traveler on the road. Anyway, this is a podcast about
Speaker 2: bad people, and some bad people are doctors.
Speaker 4: That's right, What's but what's that show? The good doctors?
Speaker 5: And it then it's and and it's just you look,
Speaker 5: it's just doctors. You let me.
Speaker 3: If you look at Hollywood, it's always like every show
Speaker 3: about doctors or movie about doctors is basically everyone in
Speaker 3: the medical system is terrible except for this one guy
Speaker 3: who's willing to buck the systems.
Speaker 2: He's gonna patch some Adams or whatever it happens in
Speaker 2: the Patch Adams movie. Yeah, now, you know, we've we've
Speaker 2: built I would say probably about like fifteen to twenty
Speaker 2: percent of the show's like legacy and audience has been
Speaker 2: built off the back of like quack doctors, most of
Speaker 2: whom were not real doctors. You know, we've definitely covered
Speaker 2: some actual doctors who were monsters. A lot of them
Speaker 2: came from the era back when anybody could be a
Speaker 2: doctor if you just said you were. We always have
Speaker 2: fun with these, and so I'm always on the lookout
Speaker 2: for like a good fake doctor story, right, Yeah, and periodically,
Speaker 2: especially I think over the last year or two, I
Speaker 2: keep coming across stories of like, well, this is really interesting,
Speaker 2: this is like a fake doctor or whatever that has
Speaker 2: like an it's an interesting story. I want to tell
Speaker 2: it to people, but there's not that much here. I
Speaker 2: get maybe two pages of script out of this, right,
Speaker 2: And so my plan was I'm just going to collect
Speaker 2: three or four of these, you know, put them together,
Speaker 2: and we'll probably get a good episode, maybe a one
Speaker 2: part or something out of it. And then as I
Speaker 2: was putting together a couple of these little shorter fake
Speaker 2: doctor bastards, I I kind of uncovered, I mean, I
Speaker 2: uncovered other people's reporting that uncovered like a massive, sweeping
Speaker 2: nationwide healthcare scam by the insurance industry that is destroying
Speaker 2: public health and the lives of countless Americans. So that's
Speaker 2: kind of what the story's gonna be about. But we've
Speaker 2: got some good medical bastards here too.
Speaker 3: Fantastic. Yeah, let's fucking burn my career to the ground
Speaker 3: for Katy. Let's do it, make do, Let's burn bridges today.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: Well, the first guy we're going to talk about, you're
Speaker 2: not gonna have to build knee bridges for because this man,
Speaker 2: this man is a and I promise this this ties
Speaker 2: into our classic deep sinister over theme here, but it's
Speaker 2: gonna seem just kind of like a one off at first.
Speaker 2: And the guy we're going to talk about is Malachi
Speaker 2: Love Robinson.
Speaker 4: That's a real name.
Speaker 2: It sure is, as far as I can tell, this
Speaker 2: is his actual name. I love hyphen Robinson.
Speaker 3: You got a name like that. You are destined for
Speaker 3: greatness or for jail? Well two, yeah, it's it's prison
Speaker 3: or you solve a plague, one of those two things.
Speaker 4: Here it's gryft or great None, yeah, grift.
Speaker 3: You're great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no, there's no Malachi Love Robinson, just like
Speaker 2: mowen Is Lawn, you know, working a nine to five
Speaker 2: as an accountant. No, you go big, You go big,
Speaker 2: or you wind up dying in a cell. So back in,
Speaker 2: you know, the winter of twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen,
Speaker 2: a young doctor started doing rounds at Saint Mary's Medical
Speaker 2: Center in West Palm Beach, Florida. I'm sure you can
Speaker 2: correct me if I get something wrong, But my understanding
Speaker 2: is that large hospitals like often have groups of young
Speaker 2: doctors rotating through them as they finish residency requirements. Right,
Speaker 2: this is part of how you become whatever doctor stereoti
Speaker 2: type reference the Zoomers will recognize. Right now, I don't
Speaker 2: know what doctors show us on TV. They probably haven't
Speaker 2: seen House.
Speaker 4: It's still fucking Anatomy.
Speaker 3: Are still on TV.
Speaker 4: It's incredible.
Speaker 3: No, I could do a whole show on atomy.
Speaker 2: And this is why the Zoomers are not popping enough pills.
Speaker 2: They didn't have Hugh Laurie making it look good for us.
Speaker 2: God damn it. That's that's tragic. So for about a month,
Speaker 2: this new doctor, Malachi Love Robinson, was a regular presence
Speaker 2: at these clinical rotations. He'd walk around with a lab
Speaker 2: coat that read anaesthesiology, would tell people he was a doctor.
Speaker 2: At one point, an obgyn at the hospital received a
Speaker 2: letter from Malachi asking, hey, can I shadow you? And
Speaker 2: I think he found this a little odd. It's not
Speaker 2: totally weird, you know, but he was like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is not the way people usually ask for this sort
Speaker 2: of thing, and hospitals are busy places, so whatever kind
Speaker 2: of odd impression Malachae occasionally gave off usually sort of
Speaker 2: gave way to the fact that everybody's got shit to do.
Speaker 3: Right, There's like there's people bleeding to death and stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, it's spent too much time worrying about the
Speaker 2: weird looking kid, right, yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, whatever, Yeah, come on, come on, you're supposed
Speaker 3: to be here. You have a coat, you look like
Speaker 3: a doctor. Yeah yeah, come on.
Speaker 2: There wouldn't just be a random boy in the hospital, right,
Speaker 2: But that's exactly what happened. And I'm going to read
Speaker 2: a quote from an article in the Sun Sentinel. Staff
Speaker 2: at the medical center's obgy in office was alerted by
Speaker 2: a patient that a young male who quote appeared to
Speaker 2: be a child, was dressed as a doctor and was
Speaker 2: inside an exam room. Another security guard told police she
Speaker 2: had seen the boy gain access to secured areas of
Speaker 2: the hospital in the past week. Security footage showed the
Speaker 2: boy entering the lobby from the parking lot. Officers saw
Speaker 2: the car parked outside and could see a white lab
Speaker 2: coat on a hangar in the back seat. When interviewed
Speaker 2: by police, the team told them that he has been
Speaker 2: a doctor for years and that his family could vouch
Speaker 2: for him.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm just realizing that he specifically went for
Speaker 3: obi gyne. Yeah. Oh what a fucking turn. If he
Speaker 3: was just some sort of like precocious youth who was
Speaker 3: like I want to learn medicine and be jogie howser,
Speaker 3: I'd be like I would have a little like yeah
Speaker 3: for that, A little part of me would little appreciate that.
Speaker 3: But now I see what he's doing. He's just like
Speaker 3: a young kid who wants to see boobs and stuff.
Speaker 3: That's that's probably it, right.
Speaker 2: He never will admit that, but that is my guess
Speaker 2: as to why he's kind of like specifically trying to
Speaker 2: do obgyn stuff and like it is. It's it makes
Speaker 2: sense that it's a patient who first makes the report
Speaker 2: because they're kind of they're just stuck in a bed
Speaker 2: and they see this kid and they're like, there's no
Speaker 2: way that's a doctor. This is clearly a child. Why
Speaker 2: why as a child in this room with a lamp
Speaker 2: coat on?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, what does this happen?
Speaker 6: This happens like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, not all that
Speaker 6: long ago, right, So eventually, and again this only takes
Speaker 6: a couple of months, which is longer than you'd expect,
Speaker 6: but he's not It doesn't go on for that long
Speaker 6: and the police get called. Right, So there's some news
Speaker 6: reports that a child was in and none of these reports,
Speaker 6: by the way, name Malachi because you don't as a
Speaker 6: journal in journalism, you don't name children who commit crimes. Right,
Speaker 6: It's a pretty hard and a fast rule because they're children.
Speaker 6: Like this is bad, but he is still a child.
Speaker 6: We know his name because of crimes he continues to
Speaker 6: commit as an adult. As a spoiler for where this
Speaker 6: is going, so the police, you know, take him into custody.
Speaker 2: There's news reports at the time. Note that his mother
Speaker 2: like said he was ill, he was refusing to take medicine,
Speaker 2: but he was under the care of a doctor. She
Speaker 2: was kind of insinuating maybe he was pretending to be
Speaker 2: a doctor because of that. I don't actually know if
Speaker 2: any of that's true or if his mom was just lying.
Speaker 2: It was all really suspicious and weird. But again, Malachi
Speaker 2: is a minor, so he gets some you know, minor punishment,
Speaker 2: and the case sort of drifts away without much comment
Speaker 2: because there's not really much else to do. When a
Speaker 2: kid commits a crime like this, you know it's not
Speaker 2: it's certainly a bad thing to do, but there's no like,
Speaker 2: there's no victim. Right, he didn't hurt anybody in a
Speaker 2: way that we can you know, define yet, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm really fascinated to know what they let
Speaker 3: him do, because when I take medical students or residents
Speaker 3: like around for like, and I'm like teaching them, I will,
Speaker 3: you know, with the patient's consent, always is like, hey,
Speaker 3: can he listen to your heart? Can he do this
Speaker 3: abdominal exam? I'm really wondering if he was just walking
Speaker 3: around watching them, or if he was like trying to
Speaker 3: get handsy.
Speaker 2: With these hospitals are cagey about it. My guess is
Speaker 2: that just because he was kind of nervous, he didn't
Speaker 2: push to do it the way like a real resident
Speaker 2: who's actually trying to get some hands on experience might.
Speaker 2: But it probably wasn't nothing too, Like the hospital kind
Speaker 2: of wants you to think it's nothing, but like, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know, guys, he was there a while. What I'm fascinated
Speaker 3: to know is like usually people walking around like notepads
Speaker 3: writing down stuff like I'm wondering if like he had
Speaker 3: like a notepad and if like anyone looked at it,
Speaker 3: it was just like drawings, like doodling boobs and stuff.
Speaker 2: It's a little creep, perhaps creep, not impossible, so you know,
Speaker 2: this is the kind. There's a number of reasons a
Speaker 2: kid might do this. He might just legitimately want to
Speaker 2: be a doctor and also be a child and thus
Speaker 2: bad at knowing what's appropriate. This could also be someone
Speaker 2: who's mentally ill. There are certain mental illnesses people often
Speaker 2: get weirdly obsessed with doctors and medicine. That's not what's
Speaker 2: going on with Malachi. He is a con artist and
Speaker 2: we're going to learn this later because about a year
Speaker 2: after this happens, when Malachi is now an adult, Floridians
Speaker 2: wake up to the opening of a new medical clinic
Speaker 2: in their area new Birth New Life Medical Center and
Speaker 2: Urgent Care LLC. On the website is a stock image
Speaker 2: of a racially diverse group of awkwardly smiling actors pretending
Speaker 2: to be doctors, and below that is this text. New Birth,
Speaker 2: New Life Medical Center and Urgent Care's mission is to
Speaker 2: provide personalized, high quality, holistic and alternative medical care on
Speaker 2: an ass needed or preventive basis. The only staff member
Speaker 2: listed is doctor Malachi Love Robinson, and despite having just
Speaker 2: been arrested for looking like a child dressed as a doctor,
Speaker 2: he could not help but pick a photo and bio
Speaker 2: for himself that screamed child pretending to be a Have
Speaker 2: you ever seen a child more obvious child pretending to
Speaker 2: be a doctor than that?
Speaker 3: This is so Robert has the photo on the screen.
Speaker 3: Now we're watching looking at this, and it does I
Speaker 3: do remember seeing this now that you put this up,
Speaker 3: and oh my goodness, it looks like a child, like
Speaker 3: a sweet, sweet boy. You want to pinch his cheeks,
Speaker 3: knowing what I do now, I want to pinch them
Speaker 3: really hard, hard, like.
Speaker 2: It looks like you know, when I was in high school,
Speaker 2: my high school offered like a pre pre med program
Speaker 2: where you could actually do some very limited like clinical rotations,
Speaker 2: and I think you'd be kind of certified as an
Speaker 2: EMT sort of by the time you graduated high school.
Speaker 2: It was like for kids who wanted to be doctors
Speaker 2: and stuff. It looks like the photos they would take
Speaker 2: like you're clearly a child but.
Speaker 3: Like you've gotten access to a lab coat. No one
Speaker 3: in medicine has that much enthusiasm and their smile anymore.
Speaker 3: They don't have that time. They've got their PhD. Oh wait,
Speaker 3: hold on a second, he the PhD. I missed that. No,
Speaker 3: he's claiming to.
Speaker 2: He's listed himself is Love Robinson, PhD, HHPC A m PC.
Speaker 2: I don't know what those other two are.
Speaker 3: Wow, I don't either.
Speaker 2: I think they have to do with because he's not
Speaker 2: just pretending to be a real doctor. He's pretending to
Speaker 2: be a real doctor who's also like a natural path.
Speaker 2: He can do food and herb therapy, psychotherapy, electro therapy, physiotherapy,
Speaker 2: and mechan and also, by the way, I.
Speaker 3: Learned this when he was like four. He's so young,
Speaker 3: learned all this stuff.
Speaker 2: If somebody is saying that they are both a regular
Speaker 2: doctor and can do psychotherapy on you and electro therapy
Speaker 2: on you and herb therapy on you, they're probably not
Speaker 2: able to do anything.
Speaker 5: I just want to point out that I want to
Speaker 5: go look up what HHP dash semen, and the first
Speaker 5: thing that comes up is, uh, the reddit thread about
Speaker 5: this guy, And the second that comes up is team
Speaker 5: Charge to be a doctor, Sir, I don't know if
Speaker 5: h HP.
Speaker 4: And if it is let us.
Speaker 3: That's just like doctors would love to put like these
Speaker 3: these titles after their name, like MD, PhD, oh yeah, PI,
Speaker 3: MPG O D like we just love it. Can't get
Speaker 3: enough of that.
Speaker 5: My brother's job title is like three sentences Jesus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, See this is why real jobs
Speaker 2: like podcast or you could just say in a single word,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Exactly my real work when I'm really giving back to humanity,
Speaker 3: my calling, my calling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been covered in blood because of my job too, Kava.
Speaker 2: I wasn't saving a life, but there was a lot
Speaker 2: of blood. So about a month after this website goes up,
Speaker 2: an eighty something year old West Palm resident named Anita
Speaker 2: Morrison starts experiencing stomach pain like most people do in
Speaker 2: this situation. I think she googles like urgent care or
Speaker 2: something she's looking for like clinics near me right, And
Speaker 2: you know, our lives are governed by algorithms from various
Speaker 2: search engines and apps, and one of them sited. The
Speaker 2: closest clinic to her was new Birth New Life Medical Center.
Speaker 2: I do think Malachi part of why there's so many
Speaker 2: different terms for all sorts of different treatments in there
Speaker 2: is so that it'll get pulled by an algorithm. Right,
Speaker 2: He's clearly had some understanding of like, if I phrased
Speaker 2: this in a certain way online, my business will be
Speaker 2: suggested to people who are nearby who need medical help.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: NBC News describes what happened next. She called the office
Speaker 2: located in her hometown of West Palm Beach and spoke
Speaker 2: with a man named doctor Malachi love Robinson, who offered
Speaker 2: to pay her and a home visit. Wearing a white
Speaker 2: lab coat and stethoscope slung around his neck, Love Robinson
Speaker 2: examined Morrison, focusing on her legs, heart, and lung. She
Speaker 2: said he told her she had arthritis. Then he sold
Speaker 2: her natural vitamins to dold the discomfort.
Speaker 3: She said.
Speaker 2: She allowed the baby faced physician to return four more times,
Speaker 2: although by early January she realized something wasn't right inside
Speaker 2: her home. Personal checks went missing. So he's just sort
Speaker 2: of robbing this old lady woah, using being at to
Speaker 2: get into our house and then taking stuff from her.
Speaker 3: Washington. Yeah, it's gross, right, makes it so mad? It
Speaker 3: makes mad. Yeah, Like it's just like the I mean, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, as doctors, I'll be the first to say
Speaker 3: we're not perfect and call us out for our many
Speaker 3: many faults.
Speaker 2: But of course not I've heard of a podcaster or
Speaker 2: two who's done bad things.
Speaker 3: Oh I have not, never, never, but definitely it's happened.
Speaker 3: And it's like the we try our best to create
Speaker 3: a sense of trust with our patients and to do
Speaker 3: house visit is a pretty uncommon thing, and it's such
Speaker 3: a rare thing that when I hear of it happens still,
Speaker 3: and it still does happen rarely. There's a part of
Speaker 3: me that loves it just because, like it is the
Speaker 3: most old fashioned, the heart of medicine, going to where
Speaker 3: the patient's at, both you know, literally and in all
Speaker 3: in some senses, you know, figuratively meeting them where they're at.
Speaker 3: And in this case, he's taken that trust and he
Speaker 3: is using it to his own nefarious gains. And it
Speaker 3: really pisses me off because at least when a doctor,
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if it's better when a
Speaker 3: doctor does it a bad thing or not, but you
Speaker 3: know the fact that someone is mustling in and trying
Speaker 3: to use our title in that way like we don't
Speaker 3: have enough problem makes me so angry. Oh yeah, angry.
Speaker 3: I hope something bad happens to this kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it doesn't go like yes as a spoiler,
Speaker 2: it does, so. The Washington Post reports at the final
Speaker 2: straw for Anita, the woman that he is stealing from,
Speaker 2: Kames comes when she calls him over because she's again
Speaker 2: she keeps experiencing pain, probably because he's not treating.
Speaker 3: Whatever thing is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he tells her that she needs to go
Speaker 2: to the hospital, right, And his plan was to rob
Speaker 2: her home after she was taken away and blame anything
Speaker 2: missing on the fact that, well, you're old, you know
Speaker 2: you just forgot right. But Anita hands him her purse,
Speaker 2: say she's being taken away by like the EMTs, and
Speaker 2: to put back in her house, and he takes her
Speaker 2: check book and he starts cashing fraudulent checks all around town.
Speaker 2: So that makes it pretty easy for her to call
Speaker 2: the authorities and they set up a sting by the
Speaker 2: bang Baya Boom.
Speaker 3: He gets arrested.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: This is the point at which the news starts covering
Speaker 2: the story. Malachi was eighteen now, which meant they could
Speaker 2: publish his name and he had now robbed an old
Speaker 2: lady if it turned out to be like thirty four
Speaker 2: thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: So wow, at this point where like he does not
Speaker 3: deserve the benefit of you know, maybe he could get
Speaker 3: better here. Let's let's put up on blast effectively.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: This is not like him being like he's a sick
Speaker 3: kid who needs help. I mean this is really thought out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean it's not a bad strategy to be honest
Speaker 3: with you. No, no, no. When someone's going to the hospital,
Speaker 3: there's so much chaos around that, and they're so sick,
Speaker 3: and they have so many other things to worry about,
Speaker 3: you would think that it's the last thing on their
Speaker 3: mind to think about where their checkbook is. Of course,
Speaker 3: so it's really well thought out and it's so despicable.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no it is, and it shows you know,
Speaker 2: he's got he's obviously smart enough understands how to manipulate
Speaker 2: the Internet and these algorithms in order to put himself
Speaker 2: in a position. He's got some degree of social manipulating ability.
Speaker 2: But he also doesn't seem to have the self control.
Speaker 2: I think a more skilled con man would have been like, okay,
Speaker 2: I've gotten five to ten grand out of this old lady.
Speaker 2: Time to move on, you know, like eventually she'll notice
Speaker 2: and that'll get me in trouble. So I'm going to
Speaker 2: mosey on down the street. Not trying to give people advice.
Speaker 2: I'm just analyzing this guy. One of the things that's
Speaker 2: interesting when you read articles about him, they some of them,
Speaker 2: like the Washington Post piece, have these details about his family,
Speaker 2: and every single fact you learn about this guy sounds
Speaker 2: like another scam that we just haven't uncovered yet.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: Quote Love Robinson's grandfather, William Robinson, said this is all
Speaker 2: a misunderstanding. He told The Son Sentinel that the team
Speaker 2: never claimed to be a medical doctor, just a holistic doctor,
Speaker 2: and that he held certificates to practice from online schools.
Speaker 2: He was pursuing things, but I don't really know what
Speaker 2: it came to. Robinson said. He was pursuing the field
Speaker 2: that he wanted to get into a local station w PBF.
Speaker 2: Realize this kid was willing to talk and smelled like this,
Speaker 2: They're like, Okay, there's content here. So they reach out
Speaker 2: to this kid and they're like, hey, is there any
Speaker 2: chance you were the little boy who pretended to be
Speaker 2: a doctor at that hospital last year, and Malachi's answer was,
Speaker 2: I requested shadow physicians. Next thing I know, cops are there.
Speaker 2: That's all I know. I have no idea NBC does
Speaker 2: more digging, because by now reporters are calling Malachi doctor love,
Speaker 2: and I think they're doing that. I think whoever did
Speaker 2: that was like, there's a pretty good chance this gets
Speaker 2: turned into a Netflix series, and I want it to
Speaker 2: be based off of my article, so let's try to
Speaker 2: find a title here. Yeah, and they find out that
Speaker 2: he does have one seemingly legitimate qualification, which is a
Speaker 2: certification from the American Association of Druglist Practitioners.
Speaker 3: You heard of these guys, Kave, I have not, but
Speaker 3: I don't love the sound of it.
Speaker 2: No, No, that's because they're bullshit. They are like a
Speaker 2: real thing. They're just a real thing for conment, right, yeah, Ah,
Speaker 2: Conment's not the right term. They're a real thing for kooks,
Speaker 2: for cranks, you know, not saying that like you always
Speaker 2: need to use drugs to treat problems. There's a number
Speaker 2: of problems that have treatments that aren't based in drug giving.
Speaker 2: People keep telling me like, yeah, but all of my
Speaker 2: problems require drugs, Sophie like of being sober, which is
Speaker 2: why I need to drink this creative lemonade.
Speaker 3: You know, I will say this, well he drinks his
Speaker 3: creative lemonade, which he just took a huge swig of.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, baby. You know, I'm not gonna sit here
Speaker 3: and say that Western medicine has the complete knowledge of
Speaker 3: everything that happens with the patient. I mean, there's lots
Speaker 3: that we can learn from other places, and I'm open
Speaker 3: minded to things, but you know, we look for proof,
Speaker 3: we look for evidence, and when there's not, there's this
Speaker 3: big vacuum, and in that vacuum gets all that space
Speaker 3: gets filled with grifters, almost all of it.
Speaker 2: And it's yeah, it's one thing to be like, you know,
Speaker 2: I have had you know, I had a lower back
Speaker 2: problem right that I dealt with through like a physical
Speaker 2: therapy regimen. I didn't use drugs for it. Sometimes that works.
Speaker 2: But saying that I'm just a drugless medical practitioner, well no, sometimes,
Speaker 2: how are you going to druglessly treat the flu?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: How are you going to deal with like cancer without
Speaker 2: any drugs?
Speaker 3: You know, like medication exists for a reason, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: to your beautiful four parter on Steve jobs for that. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Look at what happened with Steve when he tried to
Speaker 2: cure his cancer with apples. So the American Association of
Speaker 2: druglest Practitioners are based out of Galveston, which is the
Speaker 2: first black mark against them. Nothing good comes out of Galveston,
Speaker 2: or will it ever? More to the point, anyone can
Speaker 2: join their organization, not any doctor, anybody, right, So you
Speaker 2: can be a druglist practitioner, which, like I don't know
Speaker 2: if you're just like Ted who works as an accountant
Speaker 2: or whatever, Like what are you a druglist practitioner of accounting? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be any kind of medical professional.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Essentially, the number of people who could join this association
Speaker 2: is encompasses everyone on earth.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: If you ever treated a cold by just like waiting
Speaker 2: until it got better, congratulations you qualify.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the AADP is primarily a way for holistic practitioners
Speaker 2: without real qualifications to say, number one, this is a
Speaker 2: thing that I can like put in a frame, right,
Speaker 2: I can have it up in my office or whatever,
Speaker 2: and it looks like I've it looks like a certification.
Speaker 2: Right to somebody who doesn't know anything. And it's also
Speaker 2: kind of a way to say I don't prescribe medications,
Speaker 2: So you can't get angry at me for saying I'm
Speaker 2: a doctor, right and giving someone wild honey for their
Speaker 2: lymphatic cancer or whatever, because I that's just not the
Speaker 2: kind of doctor that I am. NBC reached out to
Speaker 2: the group's director and were like, hey, this absolute con
Speaker 2: man who robbed a lady said that he was certified
Speaker 2: by your organization, And the guy who runs the AADP
Speaker 2: was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Our credentials don't confer the
Speaker 2: ability to diagnose your treat patients, right, that's not what
Speaker 2: this is about. So like, what the fuck is it about?
Speaker 2: It's just there so quack doctors can stick a thing
Speaker 2: on their wall, right.
Speaker 3: I recognize also that I might sound a bit hypocritical
Speaker 3: here when I say this, but because I'm a member
Speaker 3: of the Universal Life Church and I'm al so I
Speaker 3: can do That's the next paragraph, BROD.
Speaker 2: So this guy, the head of the AADP says that, like,
Speaker 2: because Malachi lied about being a doctor, we've kicked him
Speaker 2: out of the AADP. You know, we police our own right,
Speaker 2: And I'm going to continue from NBC here. This is
Speaker 2: where we bring in the Universal Life Church. In addition,
Speaker 2: Love Robinson's doctorate was from the online Universal Life Church Seminary.
Speaker 2: According to documents released by the Florida Department of Health,
Speaker 2: the degree in Divinity can be bought from the site
Speaker 2: for twenty nine to ninety five. You will be legally
Speaker 2: entitled to use the title doctor in front of your name,
Speaker 2: indeed after your name, the website says. Now, look, covet,
Speaker 2: I also have have used the Universal Life Church to
Speaker 2: allow me to do things to people, like marry them.
Speaker 2: That was a creepy way to phrase that.
Speaker 3: Did things to people, for sure, some people might say
Speaker 3: that's invasive.
Speaker 2: Look, the Universal Life Church has meant a lot of
Speaker 2: fun for all of us. There's but there's no reason
Speaker 2: to include the line you will be legally entitled to
Speaker 2: use the title doctor unless you're selling this for scammers
Speaker 2: who are going to run cons like we can all
Speaker 2: agree that, right, there's no other reason to say that.
Speaker 3: I have to. I have to say yes, I do agree,
Speaker 3: and that bothers me to be honest with you. So
Speaker 3: I did it also so I could marry some of
Speaker 3: my friends. I mean, I didn't marry them myself. I
Speaker 3: married not but we know. Yeah, so you know, but
Speaker 3: I thought the term that you could use was healer.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize you could use the word doctor. I
Speaker 3: feel like that is a big difference.
Speaker 2: Well, because it's the doctorate of divinity.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you didn't have to worry about that, you already
Speaker 4: have that title.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is true. Yeah, I guess maybe I wasn't
Speaker 3: paying attention. I'll have to look back at that.
Speaker 2: Speaking of the Universal Life Church, you know, who else
Speaker 2: has the right to marry anyone they want.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna guess Blue Apron can marry people. Really, if
Speaker 3: you don't want to get married, they can force you
Speaker 3: to get married.
Speaker 2: They can, and they often do. Look if you see
Speaker 2: anyone with the Blue Apron armband, run run for your life.
Speaker 2: Your freedom means nothing to them. Ah, we're back back.
Speaker 2: Hold up in three separate, undisclosed locations, hiding from Blue
Speaker 2: Aprons shock troops as they as they comb the West Coast.
Speaker 5: Another Apron conspiracy that our listeners are gonna take to
Speaker 5: be true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, Sophie, I thought I was going
Speaker 2: to be better about this sort of thing. But it's
Speaker 2: like we always say on the show Power corrupts and
Speaker 2: it's all also really fun to be corrupt. So I'm
Speaker 2: just going to keep going.
Speaker 5: You are such a healer, doctor Maggie.
Speaker 2: Please, thank you, Reverend doctor Evans. That's a real one though.
Speaker 2: That comes from the state of New Jersey, you know,
Speaker 2: and that's an actual state allegedly.
Speaker 4: That it comes from the state of New Jersey.
Speaker 3: Wow, they have trees, they have nice trees, and they
Speaker 3: got nice trees.
Speaker 4: My old boss, Dan O'Brien sopranos, sopranos.
Speaker 5: That's three good things that you get your taxes.
Speaker 4: Great.
Speaker 2: So the state of Florida, play against type stopped allowing
Speaker 2: natura paths to examine patients in nineteen fifty seven. I
Speaker 2: was actually shocked when I heard this.
Speaker 3: That it's better than I mean thought Florida would be
Speaker 3: doing on that. Even what their surgeon general is doing currently,
Speaker 3: that is amazing. That must have been done well before
Speaker 3: he was there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is fifty seven right now. And
Speaker 2: it's also not as good as it sounds, because well,
Speaker 2: they're not allowed to examine patients, they are allowed to
Speaker 2: consult on patients, and this is kind of the gray
Speaker 2: area that doc Love was hoping to sail through once
Speaker 2: he got caught right that, like, I'm not treating patients,
Speaker 2: I'm consulting. I have the right, but like he also
Speaker 2: stole a bunch of people, right, money from people, and
Speaker 2: in addition to stealing money from people the way that
Speaker 2: he was able to like because he was he was
Speaker 2: like billing Medicare too for the treatments that he was doing,
Speaker 2: because he's working these old ladies. And you know, as
Speaker 2: you I'm sure you know, Kava. In order to bill Medicare,
Speaker 2: you have to have what's called an NPI or national
Speaker 2: provider number. This is the number that Medicare and also
Speaker 2: health insurance companies use it to identify physicians for the
Speaker 2: purpose of approving billing rights.
Speaker 3: To give you Roberts a stop asking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, all I need is your signature for right now.
Speaker 2: When I first started looking at A. Malachi's case, it
Speaker 2: was not clear to me how he faked his NPI,
Speaker 2: and the articles I read seemed to be kind of
Speaker 2: like confused on the matter, right, I think there were
Speaker 2: a couple of different theories positive but when I looked
Speaker 2: into it, this is what's getting into the actual like
Speaker 2: over conspiracy sea of the episode, it's like, anyone can
Speaker 2: fake an MPI. It's the easiest thing in the world
Speaker 2: to do. There is absolutely no protections stopping people from
Speaker 2: faking this.
Speaker 3: And why that.
Speaker 2: Is the case, and how health insurance companies play into
Speaker 2: it is kind of going to be the big overarching
Speaker 2: theme of the episode. But what matters for the moment
Speaker 2: is that once he's in the system and he's got
Speaker 2: his NPI, he found it easy to get his information
Speaker 2: added to various online databases of medical practitioners, which helped
Speaker 2: him fill out his faux resume. Right after he got
Speaker 2: caught and loudly proclaimed that the newsman covering his case
Speaker 2: would all see it was just a misunderstanding, he disconnected
Speaker 2: his phone and put up a Facebook page claiming he
Speaker 2: had stage two kidney cancer. Then he took down his
Speaker 2: Facebook in one yeah dad, like eighteen something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Bro Malachi was sentenced to twenty
Speaker 2: eight months in jail, and in the interim period where
Speaker 2: his case went forward, he left the state of Florida
Speaker 2: illegally and tried to buy a thirty five thousand dollars
Speaker 2: Jaguar in Virginia, accompanied by a very old, and he
Speaker 2: was planning to trick into buying the car for him.
Speaker 2: Oh god, when when questioned, he varyingly identified the woman
Speaker 2: as his mother and godmother, and like it was such
Speaker 2: an obvious scam that I think it's like the car
Speaker 2: dealers who turn him in, and like, if you're too
Speaker 2: shady for a car salesman, holy shit, you gotta really
Speaker 2: be doing something that's like, that's like a guy at
Speaker 2: a gun store not selling you a gun. You have
Speaker 2: to have you have to be really really putting out
Speaker 2: bad vibes.
Speaker 3: Where was it? Where was it?
Speaker 2: This isn't like, uh Virginia, Oh wow.
Speaker 3: Used car dealer somewhere in Virginia. Was like, no, maybe
Speaker 3: it wasn't used. I don't know. Yeah, not gonna do it?
Speaker 3: Well do it. And this is why.
Speaker 2: We're not gonna be able to do a whole episode
Speaker 2: on Doctor Love. He gets caught very early, right he
Speaker 2: he he flew too close to the sun, and now
Speaker 2: he's kind of he's dropped out of the medical stuff
Speaker 2: and he's just another incompetent serial scammer.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Obviously the prison did not help him. You know, whatever
Speaker 2: he had that made him want to do this in
Speaker 2: the first place, it just made worse and now he's
Speaker 2: like fucked up, probably because prison's traumatic and he just
Speaker 2: so he just keeps doing other scams. He gets released
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, and he's immediately arrested again for trying
Speaker 2: to defraud his new employer by having like payments from
Speaker 2: shipping companies diverted to his private account. It was all
Speaker 2: these are all like bad cons and like I read
Speaker 2: one article with a quote from him where he's just
Speaker 2: like sobbing, He's like, sorry, please don't send me back
Speaker 2: to jail. It's a fucking bummer because like this this
Speaker 2: kid did as fucked up, but he was also eighteen
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, clearly locking him up did not. It
Speaker 2: hasn't made it better, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm torn because on one hand, if I
Speaker 3: wasn't a doctor, I might appreciate this, you know, little
Speaker 3: rascal for what he's been up to, but it's not
Speaker 3: a rascal. It's bad, yeah, he's but he is a naughty,
Speaker 3: naughty young man. Yeah, and to use what little goodwill
Speaker 3: we still have as doctors and abuse it makes me
Speaker 3: very upset.
Speaker 2: So it is it is.
Speaker 3: I'm torn. I'm torn on this one. But I am
Speaker 3: sort of glad that he is at least a name
Speaker 3: that people hopefully recognize and can google and can be like,
Speaker 3: this guy is full of shit.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's certainly important. I just am also like, well,
Speaker 2: fuck locking him up. He just keeps doing cons. Like, clearly,
Speaker 2: whatever the solution if you want. If the solution is
Speaker 2: this kid is not able to like do cons anymore,
Speaker 2: you're left with either just put him lock him up forever,
Speaker 2: which doesn't seem right, or something else. I don't really
Speaker 2: know what that else is, but putting him in jail
Speaker 2: for two years did not stop him from trying to
Speaker 2: hurt people. It does seem like the fact that he
Speaker 2: is now kind of a famous con artist has made
Speaker 2: it easy to catch him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's clearly part.
Speaker 2: Of Like publicizing this is clearly part of the solution.
Speaker 2: Right Anyway, when I first came about this story and
Speaker 2: the next one we're going to talk about, which is
Speaker 2: much more severe, much more severe, oh my god, it's
Speaker 2: one of the worst things I've ever heard of in
Speaker 2: the medical profession. Kaba again, I was just got to
Speaker 2: cover these as kind of here's like a pot pourrie
Speaker 2: episode of some fake doctors. But both of these people
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about today, Malachi and the frauds
Speaker 2: were about to discuss, got away with what they did
Speaker 2: because they abused the NPI system. And that tickled something
Speaker 2: in the back of my brain, and as I started
Speaker 2: digging around, I came to a realization. But I want
Speaker 2: to I'm going to take you to that process organically.
Speaker 2: I just want people to know there's something more here.
Speaker 2: This is not just going to be like an assortment
Speaker 2: of fucked up tales.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: So the next place we're going to go is the
Speaker 2: tragic story of the Jenkins family, Sherry Anne and Oliver. Now,
Speaker 2: Oliver was a real doctor, the only one we will
Speaker 2: be talking about in this episode, right. He was an
Speaker 2: e n t ear nosen throat specialist. But that you know,
Speaker 2: you got to stare down a lot of people's nasty
Speaker 2: throats to do that job, right, and more importantly, doing
Speaker 2: that does not pay enough for the comfort of missus
Speaker 2: sherry Anne Jenkins, Right, this is going to be a
Speaker 2: problem for her.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not a bad saying gig. Though I'm curious,
Speaker 3: I'm not a.
Speaker 2: Big You're right, you think you could live very confetly,
Speaker 2: especially since Shery Anne is not a medical doctor, but
Speaker 2: she is a PhD. Now I can't say and what.
Speaker 2: I haven't found any evidence as to what, but like
Speaker 2: real newspapers cite her as being a PhD.
Speaker 3: She's yeah, maybe universe versa life jeards, I don't know.
Speaker 2: She was born in nineteen fifty nine, and in November
Speaker 2: of twenty thirteen, when she was around fifty four years old,
Speaker 2: she and her husband started a section. So her husband
Speaker 2: works for the Toledo Clinic. That's how it's named in
Speaker 2: like the court filings, and they started a cognitive center
Speaker 2: at the Toledo Clinic. So you've got this real clinic
Speaker 2: where there are multiple real doctors doing real procedures and
Speaker 2: really treating patients. And her husband, a real doctor, starts
Speaker 2: a cognitive center there. Now you might think that's a
Speaker 2: little odd because he's an E and T doctor, right
Speaker 2: the here knows and throat are important, but they are
Speaker 2: notably not the brain.
Speaker 3: I'm waiting to I'm willing to see how they connected this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think Sherry Anne is she has like
Speaker 2: some like her PhD is in like some sort of
Speaker 2: neuro science sort of thing. But it's not like she's not, again,
Speaker 2: not at all a medical doctor. So Sherry is the
Speaker 2: one who's actually doing all of the work at the
Speaker 2: cognitive center. But she's using her husband's practitioner number, his
Speaker 2: NPI number to invoice medicare. Now, she is doing the
Speaker 2: exams herself, she is doing the treatment herself, she is
Speaker 2: prescribing medicine herself. She's just using her husband's inn PI number.
Speaker 2: That alone is several kinds of fraud.
Speaker 3: Super bad. Not supposed to be doing that, super bad.
Speaker 3: People go to school for this sort of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, and doctors will work with nurse practitioners, physicians, assistants.
Speaker 3: There's there's they work with non doctors of course. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you don't work with a PhD who has no medical.
Speaker 2: Training to do exactly when you especially when you're talking
Speaker 2: about like weird cognitive rare things. It's very likely that
Speaker 2: you would have a real doctor who might work with
Speaker 2: someone who's got like a PhD in neuroscience, and that
Speaker 2: person would contribute to them figuring out what to do.
Speaker 2: But the doctor is still the one doing the diagnosis
Speaker 2: and whatnot and filing these things. From what I can
Speaker 2: discern from past reporting and court records, the actual scam
Speaker 2: here was very simple, very simple, and very vile. The
Speaker 2: Jenkins Is found out that one of the things Medicare
Speaker 2: pays really well for is ordering pet scans and diagnosing
Speaker 2: people with Alzheimer's, Like it's a it's a good payment
Speaker 2: that you get for doing these things. Right, So because
Speaker 2: the Medicare rates for these the tests that you have
Speaker 2: to do this are are pretty good, and because most
Speaker 2: people find Alzheimer's the most terrifying diagnosis imaginable, if you
Speaker 2: tell them that they have Alzheimer's, they will immediately agree
Speaker 2: to whatever kind of ongoing treatment you tell them they
Speaker 2: need to take. Right But in part because there's kind
Speaker 2: of overwhelmed with the numb shock that comes with getting diagnosed,
Speaker 2: like that is a your life, at least in the
Speaker 2: way most people see it. I'm sure there have been
Speaker 2: I dealt with. I have a family history of well
Speaker 2: we thought it was Alzheimer's. They tended to be Louis body,
Speaker 2: but for the whole time that she lived with us,
Speaker 2: we thought my grandmother had Alzheimer's. They look very similar.
Speaker 2: So I'm aware of like how jarring this is and
Speaker 2: what a kind of a disorienting thing this is, especially
Speaker 2: if you're younger when it happens.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So they seem to be taking advantage of both of
Speaker 2: these facts. Number one, the rates that we get for
Speaker 2: doing the tests to diagnose Alzheimer's are.
Speaker 3: Really good, right.
Speaker 2: And number two, if you tell someone they have Alzheimer's,
Speaker 2: it shocks them enough that they don't think too much
Speaker 2: about what else you're going to start asking them.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: These two things are kind of key to the kN
Speaker 2: So I guess it's possible that Cherry Inn is to
Speaker 2: some extent diluted about her capabilities, right, that she really
Speaker 2: thought that she was diagnosing some of these people because
Speaker 2: some of the people she diagnosed with Alzheimer's did turn
Speaker 2: out to have Alzheimer's. Now, that's not so weird, Nor
Speaker 2: does it really hint that she was actually more competent
Speaker 2: than you might think, because this is a cognitive clinic
Speaker 2: that specialized in people who are having like memory issues, Right,
Speaker 2: And if that's your business, a decent number of the
Speaker 2: people who come to you will in fact have Alzheimer's, Right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But what's important is that while some of the folks
Speaker 2: she diagnosed did have the thing she diagnosed them with,
Speaker 2: she was giving out the diagnosis like candy to basically
Speaker 2: everyone who came in with any kind of memory issue,
Speaker 2: right And not only was she billing for the tests
Speaker 2: that would have been necessary if you were looking for Alzheimer's,
Speaker 2: she would build for tests that were unnecessary even if
Speaker 2: that is what you were doing, and she was not
Speaker 2: actually performing these tests. Right now, telling someone that they
Speaker 2: have Alzheimer's when they don't is one of the worst
Speaker 2: things that you can do to a person, and this
Speaker 2: quote from an article in the Chicago Tribune gets across
Speaker 2: how disorienting her diagnoses were to the patients that she
Speaker 2: was tricking. Quote Sean Blazak knew a string of concussions
Speaker 2: from high school football and boxing was catching up with him.
Speaker 2: He would go days without sleeping and was forgetting how
Speaker 2: to tie his shoes. Still at age thirty three, he
Speaker 2: was stunned after being told he had Alzheimer's disease. He
Speaker 2: started planning out who would take care of his four
Speaker 2: kids if something happened to his wife, and he thought
Speaker 2: about how hard it would be for them when he
Speaker 2: could no longer recognize his family. So he stuffed fistfuls
Speaker 2: of sleeping pills into a bottle and wrote himself a
Speaker 2: note vowing to swallow all of them if he wasn't
Speaker 2: able to remember the names of his children.
Speaker 3: Oh Jesus, that is fuzzy, devast fucking devastating, because again,
Speaker 3: it's one of these situations. It's one of these situations
Speaker 3: where there is like this gray zone where it's a hord.
Speaker 3: A lot of times these neurological diagnoses are really difficult
Speaker 3: to do with course, and that's why we have neurologists
Speaker 3: like specifically and psychiatrists too, who specifically work in these areas.
Speaker 3: And again, when there's any sort of doubt, when there's
Speaker 3: any sort of question, these these people come in and
Speaker 3: they fill that space. And that's what. Oh, it's so terrible.
Speaker 3: Thirty three year old and just like to end his
Speaker 3: life if he has one bad day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a fucking nightmare. But you know
Speaker 2: what's not a nightmare, cove.
Speaker 3: Ah, I'm gonna guess it's the wonderful products and or
Speaker 3: services this program. That's right.
Speaker 2: We are sponsored by the concept of not being a
Speaker 2: professional boxer, so please please avoid that.
Speaker 3: It turns out it's very bad for you. We're back.
Speaker 2: What if instead of face punching. Boxing was all dick punches.
Speaker 2: That could a better show, right, Yeah, I mean no.
Speaker 3: Chronic traumatic encephalitis. There's no like, you know, connection to
Speaker 3: Parkinson's as far as I know, I think, just as
Speaker 3: long as they're okay with the fact that they're probably
Speaker 3: not going to have kids, just punch each other in
Speaker 3: the dick a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just dick punches.
Speaker 5: Mike, Mike Tyson and Jake Paul the funniest thing they
Speaker 5: do right now.
Speaker 3: I would pay so much money to watch that fight.
Speaker 3: Mike Tyson would just evaporate chickballs. It would be gone,
Speaker 3: like like when you blow on one of those those
Speaker 3: flowers that's got a million little seats. Do you guys
Speaker 3: ever watch the slap fights, like where people like slap
Speaker 3: each other, Like, yeah, sure, that that's insane, that that's
Speaker 3: a thing that happens. That's so. I see a couple
Speaker 3: of these videos where they get so hard that they
Speaker 3: start to like get into these weird like positions. Is
Speaker 3: bad for you, Like I think they're having like brain damage,
Speaker 3: like actively you can see from like the seizures are having.
Speaker 3: It's terrible. Sports are fun. I think we should go.
Speaker 2: I just found out it used to be an Olympic event.
Speaker 2: It was dueling where you would shoot like wax bullets
Speaker 2: at each other and you would wear like protective vests.
Speaker 2: And I think we should go back to that. I
Speaker 2: feel like, there's no yeah.
Speaker 3: Why not?
Speaker 2: Why not watch people shoot each other on television with
Speaker 2: guns that can't kill them? Much better than punching each
Speaker 2: other's faces until their brains melt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm listening. I'm open to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it, folks. Anyway, we're back, folks. Another
Speaker 2: absolutely well. Another of the Jenkins' victims is Deborah Schmidt.
Speaker 2: Deborah was diagnosed in twenty fifteen by Sherry with Alzheimer's. Now,
Speaker 2: one of the things you noted is that, like, this
Speaker 2: is tough. These are not diseases that we have a
Speaker 2: great handle on. So mistakes get made, and Debor did
Speaker 2: what you should do in that situation. She went to
Speaker 2: another doctor for a second opinion. First, she goes to
Speaker 2: another guy who works at the clinic I think that
Speaker 2: she had just worked with before, James Aubril, and she
Speaker 2: was like, Hey, I don't think I have Alzheimer's, but
Speaker 2: this guy, this lady, says I do. And James counseled
Speaker 2: her to go back in and is like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm sure that the clinic is a real clinic, so
Speaker 2: you should probably just like keep going in. So she
Speaker 2: goes back to the clinic and she does a cognitive test.
Speaker 2: Cherry Anne is like, yeah, you've definitely got Alzheimer's even.
Speaker 3: More time, even more super Alzheimer's. Now you have meg Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2: Now and then and then says, if you want to
Speaker 2: slow the advance, the only thing that could help is
Speaker 2: coconut oil.
Speaker 3: Oh man, come on, people, I know everyone falls for
Speaker 3: a scam. I believe it. I believe there's a scam
Speaker 3: for everybody. I believe it for sume on.
Speaker 2: Look, there's a lot of great things about coconut oil.
Speaker 2: It tastes good. I think it's relatively heart healthy. Don't
Speaker 2: quote me on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you want to cook with it, fine,
Speaker 3: it's not going to cure you're Alzheimer's. Now.
Speaker 2: I did look into this because I was like, I
Speaker 2: hadn't actually heard of this. I was, is this like
Speaker 2: a thing in like bullshit medicine circles? And it sure is.
Speaker 2: And the explanation for this is that there is a
Speaker 2: substance contained in coconut oil, caprilic acid, that may be
Speaker 2: useful as part of a treatment for Alzheimer's. Studies are ongoing,
Speaker 2: and medicine that contains caprilic acid is in stage two
Speaker 2: clinical trials. Now number one, that doesn't mean that it works,
Speaker 2: but number two, that's not the same as coconut oil
Speaker 2: halting Alzheimer's.
Speaker 3: Right, this is a super important point and if I
Speaker 3: can just make a quick stop it, Yeah, what will
Speaker 3: happen a lot in medicine is you'll see a headline
Speaker 3: they'll say like this spice will help with this cancer,
Speaker 3: and we're in reality it's like maybe some component that's
Speaker 3: in this food or this spice may have something in
Speaker 3: it that if taken out and produced in a different
Speaker 3: way and given to you in the right way, might
Speaker 3: if the studies show. But in reality, for example, everyone
Speaker 3: talked about turmeric how it helps your liver, but in
Speaker 3: reality there is one component of it that does seem
Speaker 3: to help, but when you take it, it gets broken
Speaker 3: down into an inactive component that doesn't help your liver.
Speaker 3: So taking it like orally taking it for food great.
Speaker 3: These things are oftentimes harmless. Sometimes they are harmful. But
Speaker 3: usually the harmless. But the studies aren't necessarily there yet
Speaker 3: to prove that they help. In this case, this acid,
Speaker 3: if it's studied and it shows to be helpful in
Speaker 3: specific ways, it won't be getting it through coconut oil.
Speaker 3: It will be like like a compound of it that's
Speaker 3: really high quantities that you could take. So it's not
Speaker 3: to be when you read these headlines that say something like,
Speaker 3: you know, eating this blank thing will help your diabetes. Mean,
Speaker 3: there might be some kernel of truth to it, but
Speaker 3: it's a long way from that to something clinically important.
Speaker 3: I beg people to keep that in mind.
Speaker 2: It's the thing like people only do this with foods,
Speaker 2: right because if you hear, hey, they found a spider
Speaker 2: in the Amazon, that's venom is going to it can
Speaker 2: be like we think will be part could be used
Speaker 2: to like make a cancer treatment. Right, Well, you understand
Speaker 2: that what that means is that there's some compound in
Speaker 2: the venom that when isolated and added probably to a
Speaker 2: cocktail of other compounds, might be useful in some sort
Speaker 2: of cancer treatment. You don't believe, Well, if I've got cancer,
Speaker 2: I need to fly to the Amazon and get that
Speaker 2: spider to bite me right, that's not. But if you
Speaker 2: hear that like a compound and fucking avocados might be
Speaker 2: a useful part of a case answer treatment, you'll always
Speaker 2: get grifters being like, don't go to the doctor for
Speaker 2: your cancer, eat a million avocados, And no, that's not
Speaker 2: how avocado's work. That's not how cancer works. Please don't
Speaker 2: do this exactly. And that is the case with this, right.
Speaker 2: There is no evidence whatsoever that coconut oil itself can
Speaker 2: stop or hault the progression of Alzheimer's. A lot of
Speaker 2: this myth took off in twenty fifteen, which is the
Speaker 2: year that this is. That's why she says it right,
Speaker 2: because it was in vogue then, and it's in vogue
Speaker 2: thanks to doctor Mary Newport. Doctor Mary Newport started claiming
Speaker 2: that a regiment of coconut oil had given her quote
Speaker 2: a few extra good years with her husband after he
Speaker 2: was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. I am sure Mary's
Speaker 2: case is very sad, but there is no evidence to
Speaker 2: support the claim made on the website US against Alzheimer's
Speaker 2: when it covered her story. Quote, what if a spoonful
Speaker 2: of coconut oil each day, We're all it took to
Speaker 2: reverse or slow down the symptoms of Alzheimer's. Now there
Speaker 2: is research as to whether or not just coconut oil
Speaker 2: itself might have a positive impact act on Alzheimer's. Research
Speaker 2: does not mean evidence, it means research. I found a
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two article on CTV News announcing the start
Speaker 2: of a study by the Health Bird Alzheimer's Institute to
Speaker 2: study the impact of coconut oil versus a placebo on
Speaker 2: sixty five Alzheimer's patients. That article notes that it is
Speaker 2: the first clinical trial of its kind, but also admits
Speaker 2: there is currently no clinical data showing the benefits of
Speaker 2: coconut oil on the prevention and treatment of dementia. Newport,
Speaker 2: whose husband Steve was diagnosed with Alzheimer's at age fifty one,
Speaker 2: said she began to see improvements after YadA, YadA, YadA. Right,
Speaker 2: So that's all there is. Right now, there is a
Speaker 2: study that has not we have no evidence on and
Speaker 2: there is no actual evidence that just coconut oil helps.
Speaker 2: Is this lady felt like it helped her husband, And
Speaker 2: I don't have any problem with like, yeah, sure, do
Speaker 2: a study, right, see see if you find anything. I
Speaker 2: do have a problem with blasting the internet with like,
Speaker 2: take a spoonful of coconut oil to now if you're
Speaker 2: also doing treatment, you know, and you just add a
Speaker 2: spoonful of coconut oil that makes you feel better, there's
Speaker 2: no harm to it. You're not gonna you're not gonna
Speaker 2: damage anybody by giving them a spoonful of coconut oil
Speaker 2: each day. But like, don't do it in lieu of
Speaker 2: medical treatments, right, yeah, and don't also pretend people have
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's when they're not.
Speaker 3: If I could also add one thing to that for listeners,
Speaker 3: if you ever feel like you need to get a
Speaker 3: second opinion, do so. Yes, you're not going to offend
Speaker 3: your doctor. Like every doctor has a patient, go seek
Speaker 3: a second opinion. That is okay. We want what's best
Speaker 3: for We're supposed to want what's best for you, and
Speaker 3: if some other doctor has a better idea of how
Speaker 3: to do that, we're all for it. So if you
Speaker 3: feel like some and it sometimes it's even if you
Speaker 3: like what the doctor's telling you, but you still want
Speaker 3: to get another opinion, we understand. If a doctor doesn't
Speaker 3: get that, that's on them. That's weird, and most of
Speaker 3: us will get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those things like, yeah, probably unreasonable
Speaker 2: to go to a second opinion if you've got a
Speaker 2: flu or whatever, right, but like Alzheimer's is a big deal,
Speaker 2: And like I said, you're like, they misdiagnosed my grandma. Now,
Speaker 2: given the state of Alzheimer's and Louis body treatment in
Speaker 2: the early two thousands, I don't think it would have
Speaker 2: many difference, Like you're not going to like give them
Speaker 2: like we just didn't have a good handle on either
Speaker 2: of them. You know, that's just the reality of the situation.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if miss Schmidt, who's the woman
Speaker 2: who's gotten diagnosed with Alzheimer's by Sherry Ann and then
Speaker 2: told to take coconut oil. I don't know if she
Speaker 2: like googled around and was like, there's no fucking evidence
Speaker 2: that this shit is in Alzheimer's treatment. But and I
Speaker 2: kind of think that's what happened because she refuses to
Speaker 2: take it, right, She's like, no, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: fucking take your coconut oil. I don't trust your diagnosis.
Speaker 2: Sherry Anne Jenkins reported her as non compliant in her
Speaker 2: official paperwork, and Chastis Schmidt then build Medicare twelve hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty seven dollars for the visit God. Now I
Speaker 2: found Schmid's experience chronicled in a lawsuit against the Jenkinses
Speaker 2: filed on behalf of Schmidt and others by the United
Speaker 2: States government. This is not super important, but it is
Speaker 2: very funny to me how this lawsuit opens. Now comes
Speaker 2: the United States of America buy and through relaters Deborah A.
Speaker 2: Schmidt and Mary case Smith for their complaint state and
Speaker 2: averre the following. I just love that is the United
Speaker 2: States of America three hundred and ten pounds and six
Speaker 2: foot seven baby.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 2: So the good news here is that Schmidt did seek
Speaker 2: a second opinion. She did not just take Jenkins's diagnosis,
Speaker 2: which is why again it's important.
Speaker 3: To do that.
Speaker 2: And in fact, a team of doctors at the Cleveland
Speaker 2: Clinics see her and they're like, what the fuck is
Speaker 2: this Jenkins lady talking about you're fine, right, And in
Speaker 2: fact it's it's such a like that she goes to
Speaker 2: one doctor and eventually a whole team of them look
Speaker 2: her over and are like, yeah, you don't have Alzheimer's, right,
Speaker 2: You're just kind of old and forgetting a couple of things,
Speaker 2: but like you, there's no evidence of Alzheimer's. So when
Speaker 2: she learns this, she goes back to the Toledo clinic
Speaker 2: and she tells that neurologist she had been talking to,
Speaker 2: doctor Aubril Hey Jenkins fucked up, to which the good
Speaker 2: doctor applied. I don't even want to hear that woman's name. Now,
Speaker 2: this is a story that's more worth more reporting. I'd
Speaker 2: really like to see a good documentary about this case.
Speaker 2: I'm sure one will come out eventually, because I don't
Speaker 2: really fully know how there's you certainly get you certainly
Speaker 2: can see that, like over time, some of the other
Speaker 2: doctors at the clinic, outside of the cognitive clinic realize
Speaker 2: something shady is going on. I don't know if they're aware.
Speaker 2: I don't think they're aware that she is actually diagnosing
Speaker 2: patients and carrying out tests right because she's using her
Speaker 2: husband's NPI and she's not supposed to be doing that,
Speaker 2: But they seem to be aware that, Like she's full
Speaker 2: as shit. So another client is Mary Smith. Mary sees
Speaker 2: an article on the Toledo's Cognitive Clinic made up as
Speaker 2: part of a PR blitz by the clinic that the
Speaker 2: Jenkinses were running right. Mary had been concerned about her memory,
Speaker 2: and she saw an ad in a local magazine that
Speaker 2: claimed Sherry and used quote neurocognitive testing coupled with pet
Speaker 2: CT scans that allowed her to see what part of
Speaker 2: a brain is functioning well and design protocols for each patient. Now,
Speaker 2: I'm not a doctor. That's is that more or less
Speaker 2: how it's supposed to work, right? That seems like basically
Speaker 2: how it's supposed to work.
Speaker 3: PET scans for Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2: So that's not how it's supposed to see. I'm not
Speaker 2: the doctor here, so that's not right.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'm not a neurologists, so it's a
Speaker 3: bit on my wheelhouse. But SKI scans, for sure, I don't.
Speaker 3: I mean interesting you can make you you could make
Speaker 3: an argument like what activity is lighting up? What metabolic
Speaker 3: activity lights up? So a PET scan will look at
Speaker 3: metabolic activity. So if you're looking for cancer, for example,
Speaker 3: you like do a PET scan and it'll light up
Speaker 3: in certain parts of your body where there's lots of
Speaker 3: metabolic activity, lots of things turning over, like a cancer
Speaker 3: would do lots of growth, lots of turnover. So I
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe they do it for the brain. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I'd have to ask neurologists, but it seems
Speaker 3: like what's very hand wavy.
Speaker 2: What's important for this story is that they're lying about
Speaker 2: doing those tests, in large part because using those machines
Speaker 2: is expensive. You get to build medicare for them. But
Speaker 2: it's still like a thing, right, and you don't Your
Speaker 2: clinic usually does not have one. Right, maybe the whole
Speaker 2: has has access to one, but like your little cognitive center,
Speaker 2: you don't have your own. And it seems like the
Speaker 2: ginguss are trying to avoid kind of interacting with the
Speaker 2: rest of the Toledo clinic as much as possible. So
Speaker 2: when Smith comes in, instead of giving her a PET
Speaker 2: or a CT scan, she gives her a verbal test,
Speaker 2: tells her she's failed, and then she finds an old
Speaker 2: MRI scan of Smith's brain that was just on file
Speaker 2: at the clinic, not a current one, and diagnoses her
Speaker 2: with Alzheimer's based on that. Right, So that's all a
Speaker 2: little shady.
Speaker 3: It's all very shady, And I'm sorry just to cut
Speaker 3: in because I just looked up real quick. So it
Speaker 3: looks like because there's different types of PET scans, the
Speaker 3: type that we normally look at is called FDG, which
Speaker 3: is like the concentration of glucose and looks at like
Speaker 3: metabolic activity. So the one you apparently can use, and
Speaker 3: again a neurologist is going to correct me on this one,
Speaker 3: for this is amyloid PET to measure the build up
Speaker 3: of amyloids, like a protein that can build up. It's
Speaker 3: one of the key hallmarks of Alzheimer's, so it can
Speaker 3: look for build up of this protein. So there is
Speaker 3: a use for a specific type of PET ST scan. Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: and I had to get that up. No, no, And
Speaker 3: after this, she orders a real PET scan for Smith,
Speaker 3: and this again shows why she didn't like to do
Speaker 3: that because it puts Smith in the same room as
Speaker 3: a real doctor, the attending radiologist, right, and the radiologist
Speaker 3: does the PET scan, is like, hey, you know, this
Speaker 3: isn't my wheelhouse, but like everything looks fine to me,
Speaker 3: you know, just like you should have your doctor look
Speaker 3: this over because they're supposed to be the expert. But
Speaker 3: from what I can see, it doesn't look like you
Speaker 3: have Alzheimer's. So Smith goes home and is like, whoo,
Speaker 3: that's a load off my mind. The radiologist said, I'm
Speaker 3: probably fine, And then later that night, Jenkins calls her
Speaker 3: at home and is like, the radiologist was wrong.
Speaker 2: You've got the himers. You got to come back tomorrow
Speaker 2: and bring your whole family with you. Do doctors not
Speaker 2: say you've got the himers when they're diagnosing al Zeiper's
Speaker 2: cotton They should it's not bad. And she's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: bring in your whole family. They all need to be here, right,
Speaker 2: because you can't trust your brain no more. So Smith
Speaker 2: does this and she tells her family and brings them in,
Speaker 2: and Jenkins like sits her down. She's like, you have
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's And she tells her family you all have to
Speaker 2: take care of her now, right. She can't be on
Speaker 2: her own. You know, you're no longer an independent person. Also,
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to do a telephone consult with
Speaker 2: you every three weeks and an office visit every three
Speaker 2: months for the rest of the time that she's alive.
Speaker 2: And of course, Sherry Amn, this is the situation she
Speaker 2: wants to lock every patient into because that means you
Speaker 2: get to build like sixteen hundred bucks for every one
Speaker 2: of these visits, and that's a really regular income.
Speaker 3: Stream.
Speaker 2: She's just locked in medical gas lighting twenty some grand
Speaker 2: a year for herself just with that one patient.
Speaker 3: It's gaslighting at the highest level. It's like amazing, and.
Speaker 2: There's no real cost to the clinic. But Sherry's time, right,
Speaker 2: because this is just this person coming in and being told, hey,
Speaker 2: take some fucking coconut oil. Right, so she effectively and
Speaker 2: again obviously you can see if you can do that
Speaker 2: with ten people two hundred grand a year, twenty people
Speaker 2: four under grande, right, Like, this is like a sizable
Speaker 2: amount of money that you can make doing this, in
Speaker 2: addition to the upfront cost which is probably in the
Speaker 2: ten to twenty grand of just like getting them diagnosed.
Speaker 2: But it also what you're looking at here, if you're
Speaker 2: talking about on a one to one basis, she is
Speaker 2: upending and destroying people's lives for about the price of
Speaker 2: a nice used car every year. Like that's that's what's
Speaker 2: actually going on here. So here's what the court case
Speaker 2: against the Jenkins' lists as the prescription she gave this
Speaker 2: woman for Alzheimer's treatment. Sa Jenkins prescribed Smith take six
Speaker 2: teaspoons of coconut oil per day, an all organic, GMO
Speaker 2: free diet and daily exercise. Sa Jenkins advice Smith she
Speaker 2: only had three to five more years left to work
Speaker 2: before the disease would take its toll, and requested that
Speaker 2: Smith and her husband volunteer at the Alzheimer's adult daycare
Speaker 2: so they could see where Smith was heading in the
Speaker 2: near future.
Speaker 3: Horrible do you want to know? When I bet you
Speaker 3: she was doing she was setting the groundwork for the
Speaker 3: fact that because I don't think she was believe this,
Speaker 3: I'm getting the sense that this is all a skin.
Speaker 3: She's not like a true believer and just is deluded
Speaker 3: about her you know abilities. But like what she's probably
Speaker 3: hoping to do is to be like five years down
Speaker 3: the road, be like I guess the treatment's really helping because.
Speaker 2: Yea, oh man, now that that would be Thankfully she
Speaker 2: doesn't get to that point, but I honestly a good
Speaker 2: doctor that would be that would be kind of funny.
Speaker 2: So Oliver Jenkins the actual doctor again, and her husband
Speaker 2: Cherryan's husband never saw Smith, and he never saw most
Speaker 2: of the people that his wife was diagnosing. Obviously, Smith
Speaker 2: is distraught when she gets this diagnosis, and she also
Speaker 2: thankfully seeks a second opinion from a real doctor who
Speaker 2: looks at her and is like, this doesn't look like
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's to me, but hey, we'll do a pet scan
Speaker 2: just to make sure, and oh yeah, still know Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2: But because this guy's a real doctor, he's like, you
Speaker 2: know what, you have one positive diagnosis. I showed nothing,
Speaker 2: but let's bring a third doctor in just to be
Speaker 2: really sure that you don't have Alzheimer's, right, So he
Speaker 2: refers her to yet another doctor, who backs up the
Speaker 2: confirmation that she's fucking fine. Right, The Toledo clinic had
Speaker 2: built Medicare four thousand and thirty six dollars for this
Speaker 2: bullshit diagnosis, So Smith is furious, right, But at this
Speaker 2: point she's also like, well, maybe I just ran into
Speaker 2: a bad doctor who like fucked up right, Like, it's
Speaker 2: not clear from one case as the individual. Is this
Speaker 2: lady just like shitty at her job, or have I
Speaker 2: fallen into some elaborate scheme. So when sherry Ann calls
Speaker 2: her and is like, hey, so when are you coming
Speaker 2: in for your every rest of your life visits? You know,
Speaker 2: to get told to take coconut oil. You gotta let
Speaker 2: me treat you, Smith is like, fuck off, We're not
Speaker 2: going to you anymore. So not a doctor, Jenkins send
Speaker 2: Smith a letter, quote, our physician patient relationship is ineffective
Speaker 2: and I can no longer continue to provide services to
Speaker 2: you as your provider. Therefore, this letter will serve as
Speaker 2: my notice of my intent to discontinue our physician patient
Speaker 2: relationship and ship. Now this seems to have rubbed that,
Speaker 2: doesn't Is that something you do?
Speaker 3: I've never done that. I've never okay, I mean, I'm
Speaker 3: trying to think if I've ever fired, for lack of
Speaker 3: better word, a patient. And maybe it was like one
Speaker 3: time when I got threatened by somebody who was not
Speaker 3: quite you know. It's a good place. So they and
Speaker 3: that might be the only time, but I didn't like
Speaker 3: them like a letter. I don't. I don't think we
Speaker 3: do that very commonly.
Speaker 2: No, and this isn't even that, because this is the
Speaker 2: patient says I'm not going to go to you anymore,
Speaker 2: and you send them a letter firing them, which is
Speaker 2: like a weird and petty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like weirdly, it's like battling petty. The response,
Speaker 3: the correct response is I'm sorry. I hope you find
Speaker 3: someone who treats you right. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: So this seems to have rubbed Smith the wrong way
Speaker 2: getting this letter. So she goes to the radiologist at
Speaker 2: the Toledo Clinics, so at the Broader clinic that the
Speaker 2: cognitive clinic that the Jenkins run is at, and she's like, hey, uh,
Speaker 2: you know that pet scan you did? That seemed I
Speaker 2: was fine. Well here's what happened afterwards, right, So this
Speaker 2: radiologist tells her, oh, yeah, all of the radiologists at
Speaker 2: the Toledo clinic went to the executive board recently to
Speaker 2: lodge an official complaint that Jenkins does not know what
Speaker 2: she's doing. Their complaint included the line she has diagnosed
Speaker 2: everyone with Alzheimer's. And then in the court case after
Speaker 2: this is announced, there's an utterly baffling paragraph that I'm
Speaker 2: hoping you can help me make sense of.
Speaker 5: Kave.
Speaker 2: The radiologist also stated that sa Jenkins had misdiagnosed his
Speaker 2: own twenty one year old daughter with Alzheimer's disease. He
Speaker 2: further stated that he had destroyed all of the medical
Speaker 2: records pertaining to his daughter and recommended that Smith do
Speaker 2: the same with regard to her records. What's going on there?
Speaker 2: Hold on, Hold on, hold on, I'm confused. So the
Speaker 2: real doctor Jenkins, Yeah, he I read the radiologist.
Speaker 3: He diagnosed a radiologist's daughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, Sherry Anne, the not real doctor, the wife
Speaker 2: who was not at all any kind of doctor, non
Speaker 2: doctor diagnoses the radiologist's twenty one year old daughter with Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2: And then the radiologist said, I destroyed all of the
Speaker 2: medical records pertaining to my daughter from that case, and
Speaker 2: you should do the same. Why would you do that?
Speaker 3: It does not seem like there's any good reason to
Speaker 3: do that unless he was somehow in on the scam.
Speaker 3: I don't understand that. Why would you You would never
Speaker 3: do First of all, you never destroy medical records. Like
Speaker 3: it's one of those things where like the the lie
Speaker 3: is worse than the actual act. You're not supposed to
Speaker 3: You just can't do that. It's just like, we're not
Speaker 3: supposed to do that. Why would just take his daughter,
Speaker 3: a twenty one year old for why?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Why would he not look at the images himself? And
Speaker 3: why would he not feel like twenty one is sort
Speaker 3: of I mean, there is early onset Alzheimer's. Yeah, come on,
Speaker 3: twenty one, you're a doctor man, something fishy something clearly
Speaker 3: like something.
Speaker 2: I mean, he is saying that, like he and a
Speaker 2: bunch of others went to the clinic leadership and said,
Speaker 2: this person's a scammer. So it seems like he and
Speaker 2: I kind of I kind of suspect a thing with
Speaker 2: his daughter could be as simple as like maybe there's
Speaker 2: a work party, right.
Speaker 5: Was he was he using his daughter, who we know,
Speaker 5: who he knew was like super healthy, as like a
Speaker 5: test to catch the match.
Speaker 3: Maybe that's it.
Speaker 2: I also think it could be like maybe there's like
Speaker 2: a work party and Jenkins runs into his daughter and
Speaker 2: just like in the process of a conversation diagnosis her
Speaker 2: with all cyber because.
Speaker 3: Slip into my scan over here for a moment. Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Don't know whatever it is sketch.
Speaker 2: Again, I know, we have like a bunch of professional
Speaker 2: journalists and TV people. Here's a great this is like
Speaker 2: a solid six episode Netflix documentary, right like you could,
Speaker 2: or at least a good tight ninety minutes right like
Speaker 2: somebody does because I want there's a lot of questions
Speaker 2: I do half about this still unanswered.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hire Robert and I just to be the CT test.
Speaker 3: Absolutely will choose so much.
Speaker 2: Scenery, absolutely, Yeah, and and bring in Pedro Pascal to
Speaker 2: be I don't know, somebody I just want to have.
Speaker 3: Bring him in, bring them in to be the daughter
Speaker 3: and has.
Speaker 2: Ranged Lee Pace can be can be Smith or someone.
Speaker 2: I just want to have one really good lunch out
Speaker 2: of this project.
Speaker 3: People.
Speaker 4: That's the most you thing that has ever been said.
Speaker 2: The lawyer in this case is David zol And as
Speaker 2: part of his claim against her, he noted that at
Speaker 2: least thirty people were misdiagnosed and aware of it, right,
Speaker 2: that like, we have tracked down thirty people who were
Speaker 2: told they had Alzheimer's and didn't, which is you know,
Speaker 2: potentially like six hundred grand a year, right and ongoing
Speaker 2: visits and stuff conservatively. But also he's like, that's just
Speaker 2: who we know, this lady. They were doing this for
Speaker 2: four years. There's an unknown number of people that may
Speaker 2: have been diagnosed by her, right, A lot of these
Speaker 2: people are old. There's a good chance a non trivial
Speaker 2: number of people died thinking they had Alzheimer's, you know.
Speaker 2: But we're just like they were like eighty when they
Speaker 2: came in, right, so they didn't have a lot longer
Speaker 2: unraveling who was told, what has proved to be a
Speaker 2: difficult process, and Zol claims there's and again that's the
Speaker 2: lawyer claims, there's also evidence that Sherry Anne overbuild patients
Speaker 2: for the fame care she was giving them in addition
Speaker 2: to faking their care. His take was that she's simply greedy.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Their cognitive center grew a lot faster than anyone expected,
Speaker 2: and it made a lot of money for the larger
Speaker 2: Toledo clinic. And I think to the extent that there's
Speaker 2: maybe some weird, shady stuff going on, right that's sort
Speaker 2: of insinuated in that paragraph. Maybe the radiologists weren't able
Speaker 2: to get anything done to get her fired because clinic
Speaker 2: leadership was like, well, we don't really give a shit
Speaker 2: money's coming. I don't actually know. What really sticks with
Speaker 2: me is how predatory the process was. Sherry Anne and
Speaker 2: her husband were not just giving fake diagnoses to scam medicare,
Speaker 2: they were outright like hunting people. Zol claims, quote, many
Speaker 2: times she would see the first person and have them
Speaker 2: bring in their whole family, Soul said, And many times
Speaker 2: she would diagnose the whole family. Right, because Alzheimer's can
Speaker 2: be can't have a genetic component, at least I don't
Speaker 2: know that it always does. But there are people for
Speaker 2: whom it runs in the family. So she's like, your
Speaker 2: whole family needs to get tested. And then boom boom,
Speaker 2: boom boom, everybody's got Alzheimer's.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Well, she's like doing the Oprah free car thing. But
Speaker 3: when you look at Alzheimer's, yeah you do have Alzheimer's. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately this process is not just reckless and cruel,
Speaker 2: it's deadly. And I'm going to quote now from reporting
Speaker 2: in the Chicago Tribune. Kay Tayner was diagnosed with Alzheimer's
Speaker 2: on her second visit to Jenkins, and then referred five
Speaker 2: or six friends and family members to her office, including
Speaker 2: her husband of forty eight years. All were told they
Speaker 2: had the disease, she said, but her husband, Gary took
Speaker 2: it hardest. He's got a smile that just lights up
Speaker 2: the room. And I never saw it again, she said.
Speaker 2: He just sunk in his chair. To me, he never
Speaker 2: stood up again. He was never tall again.
Speaker 3: He gave up.
Speaker 2: Gary fell into depression, spending his final week sitting in
Speaker 2: a chair with his hands in his lap, until he
Speaker 2: went into their garage and shot himself in the head.
Speaker 2: She said an autopsy did not show any signs of Alzheimer's.
Speaker 3: This monster, I mean early Alzheimer's. Again, I'm not a neurologist,
Speaker 3: but my general understanding is that it's I think under
Speaker 3: the age of like sixty five, and there is like
Speaker 3: a familial onset Alzheimer's, but it is really rare, and
Speaker 3: it's it's like probably less than like one percent of
Speaker 3: the total cases that you're gonna see. And like for
Speaker 3: her to take advantage of this and give these people
Speaker 3: these crushing diagnoses because you know, things have gotten a
Speaker 3: little bit better and we do have new medicines kind
Speaker 3: of coming down like the pipeline, but it's still a
Speaker 3: really bad thing to get, especially at an earlier ages.
Speaker 3: It's so it's so cynical, so callous that they would
Speaker 3: do it to make I mean, I don't know, I know,
Speaker 3: this is so stupid, and I'm like on the wrong
Speaker 3: show to ask this, But how do people live themselves
Speaker 3: when they do something like that? Like I don't understand,
Speaker 3: like the how that how in her mind she's probably
Speaker 3: the victim, that she's the hero of her own story. Yeah, say,
Speaker 3: everyone is, but how is she spinning this. That's the
Speaker 3: part I don't understand.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Part of me is like, maybe it was a long
Speaker 2: con and she's like, it won't really hurt them all,
Speaker 2: tell them they're cured, and then I'll start selling fucking
Speaker 2: olive or not all of a coconut oil supplements. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but maybe it is just like I don't
Speaker 2: care about people and I want money, you know, that
Speaker 2: is sometimes the answer. Maybe she was deluded, right, maybe
Speaker 2: there's some sort of mental illness she's got going on,
Speaker 2: But honestly, I feel like that's probably less likely than
Speaker 2: just like this person was a monster.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I mean, you know, at this point,
Speaker 2: I don't know that. Well, maybe if somebody does a
Speaker 2: deeper reporting on it will get you know, I did
Speaker 2: everything I could. I read like the court cases and stuff,
Speaker 2: but this is a doctor death like podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone's got to turn this into that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, please do folks. I want to know more
Speaker 2: about this. So the lawsuits against the Jenkins is inspired
Speaker 2: an investigation by the FBI, right, and once they start
Speaker 2: snooping around, it's over pretty soon for Oliver and Sherry.
Speaker 2: And these people are not criminal masterminds. They have not
Speaker 2: hidden their tracks very well. The Feds pressed charges. As
Speaker 2: all these civil cases is wined through the court system,
Speaker 2: and the Jenkinses are indicted by a grand jury, more
Speaker 2: than sixty patients and family members who had been inaccurately
Speaker 2: diagnosed would ultimately come forward. USA Today notes that in
Speaker 2: addition to Gary's suicide, one patient took a six month
Speaker 2: leave of absence from work and lost her job. Another
Speaker 2: retired early and lost his retirement benefits. One man sold
Speaker 2: his house so that he could move to be next
Speaker 2: to his children. Another client was placed in a nursing home.
Speaker 2: The good news is that both Jenkins's were found guilty
Speaker 2: of conspiracy, mail fraud, wire fraud, and healthcare fraud. Sherry
Speaker 2: was fined twenty five thousand dollars. Oliver was fined twenty
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars. Both were sentenced to time in prison,
Speaker 2: seventy one months for Sherry and forty one months for Oliver,
Speaker 2: which is, you know, I don't know what the right
Speaker 2: sentence is, but those are both real sentences.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm sorry you probably lost his license. Oh god, yeah,
Speaker 3: So right now, that's a good long term solution for that.
Speaker 2: I assume that the civil cases are going to take
Speaker 2: a lot of money out of these people's hides, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And that's all a huge bummer, right, much more of
Speaker 2: a bummer than Malachai's story, which is like kind of
Speaker 2: sad that he's ruined his life a little, but like
Speaker 2: more mostly just like wow, what a shit ad, Right,
Speaker 2: this is really fucking sad, but it also you know, again,
Speaker 2: I want to note, because we're going to come to
Speaker 2: this in Part two, these stories are not isolated incidences.
Speaker 2: They are all, in fact tied together in a certain way,
Speaker 2: and specifically, they are tied together to a series of
Speaker 2: things that explains why your healthcare is so expensive, why
Speaker 2: it is so hard to get seen, and why it
Speaker 2: is hard to find in network care when you needed.
Speaker 2: All of this relates to why the Jenkinses were allowed
Speaker 2: to do what they did, and that's what we're going
Speaker 2: to talk about in part dou But first, cave, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you speak French, and Pierre, I'm going to take that
Speaker 2: as a yes, what do you do?
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 2: Where do you go? Who are you?
Speaker 3: What do you do? Just see the San Francisco That
Speaker 3: means I'm from San Francisco. It's just sweet, doctor m
Speaker 3: podcaster I am. That's French for I am a doctor
Speaker 3: and a podcaster, and that's the extent of my French.
Speaker 3: I have a podcast called The House of Pod. You
Speaker 3: can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can
Speaker 3: follow me, uh if you like on Twitter at the
Speaker 3: House of Pod. I just started making tiktoks because I'm
Speaker 3: a complete sellout bitch. Okay, I'm crazy, you know. And
Speaker 3: I do a little bit of medical stuff there, talking
Speaker 3: about like medical topics that people are interested in. And
Speaker 3: the show is fun if you like sort of delving
Speaker 3: into bastards of medicine. We do a little bit of that,
Speaker 3: but we also talk some of the good stuff about medicine.
Speaker 3: We talked about what's new and hot, and we'll have
Speaker 3: fun guests like I have an upcoming show with the
Speaker 3: guy from EVE six and doctor Peter Hotez to talk
Speaker 3: about COVID, so that that'll be fun.
Speaker 2: So the guy for me EVE six is my primary
Speaker 2: care physician.
Speaker 3: He's pretty savvy, so I wouldn't put it past him.
Speaker 3: He's pretty cool, but so and of course Robert's been
Speaker 3: on the show, so yeah, listen to it. I think
Speaker 3: feel like it anywhere you do your.
Speaker 2: Podcast out, check it out. And you know interesting fact, covet.
Speaker 2: The French language actually has more than thirty different words
Speaker 2: for podcaster that.
Speaker 3: Makes sense, and they all are something to do with
Speaker 3: like lippitit mill I.
Speaker 2: Think, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's one of them.
Speaker 3: Anyway, everybody go to Hell.
Speaker 2: I Love you.
Speaker 5: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 5: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Speaker 5: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
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