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Speaker 1: Also media, Oh boy, howdy, what's killing my patients?

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Speaker 2: This is behind the bastards. The podcast that just I

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Speaker 2: would say, heroically allowed doctor cave joa our guest for today,

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Speaker 2: to save a life before coming here. We didn't didn't

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Speaker 2: demand that that a man die for the sake of

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Speaker 2: meeting our podcast schedule. And I think we deserve an

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Speaker 2: award for that.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know what very gracious, you were

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Speaker 3: very gracious about that. He thanks you, I thank you,

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Speaker 3: We all thank you for that. And I did have

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Speaker 3: to run it by gohand that is correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's you know, if you have a if

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Speaker 2: you know anyone on the Noel Committee, hit him up.

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Speaker 2: You know, we'll take a Webby Presidential Award of Freedom,

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Speaker 2: any of them, any of them. You know, I'm good

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Speaker 2: with whatever. And he got all of all of the

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Speaker 2: Egot awards.

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Speaker 4: We take a.

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Speaker 5: Web Award for freedom. That's how that's how I know.

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Speaker 5: I'm the only person on this call that has a Webby, So.

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Speaker 3: You're the only person on this award.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite through lines. You know, we are

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Speaker 2: periodically fielding kind of pitches and stuff from from folks

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Speaker 2: in the television industry. And I'm hopeful that, you know,

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Speaker 2: one of these days, will figure out how to make

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Speaker 2: TV shows and stuff off of some of the stuff

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Speaker 2: we're doing. But in all of these pitch decks, people

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Speaker 2: keep describing me as an award winning journalist and folks.

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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, really fun hims and them's. I have

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Speaker 3: never received an award for anything, nor do I expect to, Hey, you.

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Speaker 5: Win the award of being the best business partner ever

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Speaker 5: from me.

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Speaker 2: I got the only award that really matters to me, which, Wow,

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Speaker 2: Sophie's turned on a zoom bucket, so when she says.

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Speaker 3: Certain things, fireworks go on behind her and interrupt, but I.

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Speaker 4: Don't know I was doing it, so it just keeps happening.

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Speaker 5: And it's really just just makes me seem so much

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Speaker 5: cooler than I am.

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Speaker 2: I was. I was leaving a nightclub in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: This was seven or eight years ago, and I had

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Speaker 2: had far too much to drink, and outside the nightclub

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Speaker 2: was like the best dressed man I've ever seen in

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Speaker 2: my life. He had a waistcoat on, everything like shown

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Speaker 2: but not too much incredible, like custom leather boots, and

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Speaker 2: I vomited into a trash can in front of him,

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Speaker 2: and he said, good work, buddy, And that's the only

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Speaker 2: award I ever need. You know, I don't know anything

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Speaker 2: about that guy, but he was cool and he saw

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Speaker 2: he saw that I made it all into the trash can,

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Speaker 2: and he was like, this man's a fellow soul, a

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Speaker 2: traveler on the road. Anyway, this is a podcast about

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Speaker 2: bad people, and some bad people are doctors.

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Speaker 4: That's right, What's but what's that show? The good doctors?

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Speaker 5: And it then it's and and it's just you look,

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Speaker 5: it's just doctors. You let me.

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Speaker 3: If you look at Hollywood, it's always like every show

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Speaker 3: about doctors or movie about doctors is basically everyone in

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Speaker 3: the medical system is terrible except for this one guy

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Speaker 3: who's willing to buck the systems.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna patch some Adams or whatever it happens in

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Speaker 2: the Patch Adams movie. Yeah, now, you know, we've we've

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Speaker 2: built I would say probably about like fifteen to twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of the show's like legacy and audience has been

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Speaker 2: built off the back of like quack doctors, most of

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Speaker 2: whom were not real doctors. You know, we've definitely covered

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Speaker 2: some actual doctors who were monsters. A lot of them

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Speaker 2: came from the era back when anybody could be a

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Speaker 2: doctor if you just said you were. We always have

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Speaker 2: fun with these, and so I'm always on the lookout

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Speaker 2: for like a good fake doctor story, right, Yeah, and periodically,

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Speaker 2: especially I think over the last year or two, I

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Speaker 2: keep coming across stories of like, well, this is really interesting,

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Speaker 2: this is like a fake doctor or whatever that has

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Speaker 2: like an it's an interesting story. I want to tell

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Speaker 2: it to people, but there's not that much here. I

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Speaker 2: get maybe two pages of script out of this, right,

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Speaker 2: And so my plan was I'm just going to collect

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Speaker 2: three or four of these, you know, put them together,

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Speaker 2: and we'll probably get a good episode, maybe a one

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Speaker 2: part or something out of it. And then as I

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Speaker 2: was putting together a couple of these little shorter fake

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Speaker 2: doctor bastards, I I kind of uncovered, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: uncovered other people's reporting that uncovered like a massive, sweeping

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Speaker 2: nationwide healthcare scam by the insurance industry that is destroying

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Speaker 2: public health and the lives of countless Americans. So that's

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Speaker 2: kind of what the story's gonna be about. But we've

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Speaker 2: got some good medical bastards here too.

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Speaker 3: Fantastic. Yeah, let's fucking burn my career to the ground

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Speaker 3: for Katy. Let's do it, make do, Let's burn bridges today.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 2: Well, the first guy we're going to talk about, you're

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Speaker 2: not gonna have to build knee bridges for because this man,

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Speaker 2: this man is a and I promise this this ties

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Speaker 2: into our classic deep sinister over theme here, but it's

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Speaker 2: gonna seem just kind of like a one off at first.

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Speaker 2: And the guy we're going to talk about is Malachi

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Speaker 2: Love Robinson.

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Speaker 4: That's a real name.

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Speaker 2: It sure is, as far as I can tell, this

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Speaker 2: is his actual name. I love hyphen Robinson.

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Speaker 3: You got a name like that. You are destined for

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Speaker 3: greatness or for jail? Well two, yeah, it's it's prison

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Speaker 3: or you solve a plague, one of those two things.

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Speaker 4: Here it's gryft or great None, yeah, grift.

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Speaker 3: You're great.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no, there's no Malachi Love Robinson, just like

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Speaker 2: mowen Is Lawn, you know, working a nine to five

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Speaker 2: as an accountant. No, you go big, You go big,

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Speaker 2: or you wind up dying in a cell. So back in,

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Speaker 2: you know, the winter of twenty fourteen to twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: a young doctor started doing rounds at Saint Mary's Medical

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Speaker 2: Center in West Palm Beach, Florida. I'm sure you can

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Speaker 2: correct me if I get something wrong, But my understanding

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Speaker 2: is that large hospitals like often have groups of young

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Speaker 2: doctors rotating through them as they finish residency requirements. Right,

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Speaker 2: this is part of how you become whatever doctor stereoti

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Speaker 2: type reference the Zoomers will recognize. Right now, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what doctors show us on TV. They probably haven't

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Speaker 2: seen House.

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Speaker 4: It's still fucking Anatomy.

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Speaker 3: Are still on TV.

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Speaker 4: It's incredible.

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Speaker 3: No, I could do a whole show on atomy.

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Speaker 2: And this is why the Zoomers are not popping enough pills.

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Speaker 2: They didn't have Hugh Laurie making it look good for us.

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Speaker 2: God damn it. That's that's tragic. So for about a month,

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Speaker 2: this new doctor, Malachi Love Robinson, was a regular presence

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Speaker 2: at these clinical rotations. He'd walk around with a lab

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Speaker 2: coat that read anaesthesiology, would tell people he was a doctor.

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Speaker 2: At one point, an obgyn at the hospital received a

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Speaker 2: letter from Malachi asking, hey, can I shadow you? And

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Speaker 2: I think he found this a little odd. It's not

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Speaker 2: totally weird, you know, but he was like, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is not the way people usually ask for this sort

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Speaker 2: of thing, and hospitals are busy places, so whatever kind

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Speaker 2: of odd impression Malachae occasionally gave off usually sort of

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Speaker 2: gave way to the fact that everybody's got shit to do.

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Speaker 3: Right, There's like there's people bleeding to death and stuff.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's spent too much time worrying about the

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Speaker 2: weird looking kid, right, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, whatever, Yeah, come on, come on, you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to be here. You have a coat, you look like

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Speaker 3: a doctor. Yeah yeah, come on.

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Speaker 2: There wouldn't just be a random boy in the hospital, right,

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Speaker 2: But that's exactly what happened. And I'm going to read

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Speaker 2: a quote from an article in the Sun Sentinel. Staff

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Speaker 2: at the medical center's obgy in office was alerted by

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Speaker 2: a patient that a young male who quote appeared to

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Speaker 2: be a child, was dressed as a doctor and was

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Speaker 2: inside an exam room. Another security guard told police she

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Speaker 2: had seen the boy gain access to secured areas of

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Speaker 2: the hospital in the past week. Security footage showed the

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Speaker 2: boy entering the lobby from the parking lot. Officers saw

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Speaker 2: the car parked outside and could see a white lab

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Speaker 2: coat on a hangar in the back seat. When interviewed

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Speaker 2: by police, the team told them that he has been

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Speaker 2: a doctor for years and that his family could vouch

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Speaker 2: for him.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm just realizing that he specifically went for

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Speaker 3: obi gyne. Yeah. Oh what a fucking turn. If he

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Speaker 3: was just some sort of like precocious youth who was

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Speaker 3: like I want to learn medicine and be jogie howser,

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Speaker 3: I'd be like I would have a little like yeah

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Speaker 3: for that, A little part of me would little appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: But now I see what he's doing. He's just like

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Speaker 3: a young kid who wants to see boobs and stuff.

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Speaker 3: That's that's probably it, right.

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Speaker 2: He never will admit that, but that is my guess

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Speaker 2: as to why he's kind of like specifically trying to

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Speaker 2: do obgyn stuff and like it is. It's it makes

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Speaker 2: sense that it's a patient who first makes the report

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Speaker 2: because they're kind of they're just stuck in a bed

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Speaker 2: and they see this kid and they're like, there's no

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Speaker 2: way that's a doctor. This is clearly a child. Why

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Speaker 2: why as a child in this room with a lamp

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Speaker 2: coat on?

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, what does this happen?

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Speaker 6: This happens like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, not all that

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Speaker 6: long ago, right, So eventually, and again this only takes

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Speaker 6: a couple of months, which is longer than you'd expect,

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Speaker 6: but he's not It doesn't go on for that long

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Speaker 6: and the police get called. Right, So there's some news

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Speaker 6: reports that a child was in and none of these reports,

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Speaker 6: by the way, name Malachi because you don't as a

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Speaker 6: journal in journalism, you don't name children who commit crimes. Right,

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Speaker 6: It's a pretty hard and a fast rule because they're children.

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Speaker 6: Like this is bad, but he is still a child.

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Speaker 6: We know his name because of crimes he continues to

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Speaker 6: commit as an adult. As a spoiler for where this

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Speaker 6: is going, so the police, you know, take him into custody.

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Speaker 2: There's news reports at the time. Note that his mother

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Speaker 2: like said he was ill, he was refusing to take medicine,

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Speaker 2: but he was under the care of a doctor. She

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Speaker 2: was kind of insinuating maybe he was pretending to be

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Speaker 2: a doctor because of that. I don't actually know if

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Speaker 2: any of that's true or if his mom was just lying.

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Speaker 2: It was all really suspicious and weird. But again, Malachi

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Speaker 2: is a minor, so he gets some you know, minor punishment,

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Speaker 2: and the case sort of drifts away without much comment

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Speaker 2: because there's not really much else to do. When a

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Speaker 2: kid commits a crime like this, you know it's not

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Speaker 2: it's certainly a bad thing to do, but there's no like,

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Speaker 2: there's no victim. Right, he didn't hurt anybody in a

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Speaker 2: way that we can you know, define yet, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm really fascinated to know what they let

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Speaker 3: him do, because when I take medical students or residents

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Speaker 3: like around for like, and I'm like teaching them, I will,

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Speaker 3: you know, with the patient's consent, always is like, hey,

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Speaker 3: can he listen to your heart? Can he do this

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Speaker 3: abdominal exam? I'm really wondering if he was just walking

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Speaker 3: around watching them, or if he was like trying to

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Speaker 3: get handsy.

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Speaker 2: With these hospitals are cagey about it. My guess is

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Speaker 2: that just because he was kind of nervous, he didn't

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Speaker 2: push to do it the way like a real resident

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Speaker 2: who's actually trying to get some hands on experience might.

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Speaker 2: But it probably wasn't nothing too, Like the hospital kind

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Speaker 2: of wants you to think it's nothing, but like, I don't.

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Speaker 3: Know, guys, he was there a while. What I'm fascinated

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Speaker 3: to know is like usually people walking around like notepads

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Speaker 3: writing down stuff like I'm wondering if like he had

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Speaker 3: like a notepad and if like anyone looked at it,

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Speaker 3: it was just like drawings, like doodling boobs and stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's a little creep, perhaps creep, not impossible, so you know,

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Speaker 2: this is the kind. There's a number of reasons a

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Speaker 2: kid might do this. He might just legitimately want to

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Speaker 2: be a doctor and also be a child and thus

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Speaker 2: bad at knowing what's appropriate. This could also be someone

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Speaker 2: who's mentally ill. There are certain mental illnesses people often

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Speaker 2: get weirdly obsessed with doctors and medicine. That's not what's

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Speaker 2: going on with Malachi. He is a con artist and

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Speaker 2: we're going to learn this later because about a year

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Speaker 2: after this happens, when Malachi is now an adult, Floridians

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Speaker 2: wake up to the opening of a new medical clinic

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Speaker 2: in their area new Birth New Life Medical Center and

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Speaker 2: Urgent Care LLC. On the website is a stock image

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Speaker 2: of a racially diverse group of awkwardly smiling actors pretending

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Speaker 2: to be doctors, and below that is this text. New Birth,

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Speaker 2: New Life Medical Center and Urgent Care's mission is to

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Speaker 2: provide personalized, high quality, holistic and alternative medical care on

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Speaker 2: an ass needed or preventive basis. The only staff member

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Speaker 2: listed is doctor Malachi Love Robinson, and despite having just

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Speaker 2: been arrested for looking like a child dressed as a doctor,

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Speaker 2: he could not help but pick a photo and bio

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Speaker 2: for himself that screamed child pretending to be a Have

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Speaker 2: you ever seen a child more obvious child pretending to

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Speaker 2: be a doctor than that?

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Speaker 3: This is so Robert has the photo on the screen.

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Speaker 3: Now we're watching looking at this, and it does I

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Speaker 3: do remember seeing this now that you put this up,

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Speaker 3: and oh my goodness, it looks like a child, like

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Speaker 3: a sweet, sweet boy. You want to pinch his cheeks,

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Speaker 3: knowing what I do now, I want to pinch them

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Speaker 3: really hard, hard, like.

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Speaker 2: It looks like you know, when I was in high school,

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Speaker 2: my high school offered like a pre pre med program

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Speaker 2: where you could actually do some very limited like clinical rotations,

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Speaker 2: and I think you'd be kind of certified as an

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Speaker 2: EMT sort of by the time you graduated high school.

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Speaker 2: It was like for kids who wanted to be doctors

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Speaker 2: and stuff. It looks like the photos they would take

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Speaker 2: like you're clearly a child but.

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Speaker 3: Like you've gotten access to a lab coat. No one

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Speaker 3: in medicine has that much enthusiasm and their smile anymore.

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Speaker 3: They don't have that time. They've got their PhD. Oh wait,

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Speaker 3: hold on a second, he the PhD. I missed that. No,

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Speaker 3: he's claiming to.

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Speaker 2: He's listed himself is Love Robinson, PhD, HHPC A m PC.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what those other two are.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I don't either.

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Speaker 2: I think they have to do with because he's not

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Speaker 2: just pretending to be a real doctor. He's pretending to

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Speaker 2: be a real doctor who's also like a natural path.

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Speaker 2: He can do food and herb therapy, psychotherapy, electro therapy, physiotherapy,

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Speaker 2: and mechan and also, by the way, I.

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Speaker 3: Learned this when he was like four. He's so young,

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Speaker 3: learned all this stuff.

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Speaker 2: If somebody is saying that they are both a regular

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Speaker 2: doctor and can do psychotherapy on you and electro therapy

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Speaker 2: on you and herb therapy on you, they're probably not

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Speaker 2: able to do anything.

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Speaker 5: I just want to point out that I want to

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Speaker 5: go look up what HHP dash semen, and the first

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Speaker 5: thing that comes up is, uh, the reddit thread about

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Speaker 5: this guy, And the second that comes up is team

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Speaker 5: Charge to be a doctor, Sir, I don't know if

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Speaker 5: h HP.

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Speaker 4: And if it is let us.

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Speaker 3: That's just like doctors would love to put like these

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Speaker 3: these titles after their name, like MD, PhD, oh yeah, PI,

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Speaker 3: MPG O D like we just love it. Can't get

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Speaker 3: enough of that.

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Speaker 5: My brother's job title is like three sentences Jesus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, See this is why real jobs

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Speaker 2: like podcast or you could just say in a single word,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 3: Exactly my real work when I'm really giving back to humanity,

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Speaker 3: my calling, my calling.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been covered in blood because of my job too, Kava.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't saving a life, but there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of blood. So about a month after this website goes up,

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Speaker 2: an eighty something year old West Palm resident named Anita

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Speaker 2: Morrison starts experiencing stomach pain like most people do in

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Speaker 2: this situation. I think she googles like urgent care or

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Speaker 2: something she's looking for like clinics near me right, And

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Speaker 2: you know, our lives are governed by algorithms from various

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Speaker 2: search engines and apps, and one of them sited. The

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Speaker 2: closest clinic to her was new Birth New Life Medical Center.

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Speaker 2: I do think Malachi part of why there's so many

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Speaker 2: different terms for all sorts of different treatments in there

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Speaker 2: is so that it'll get pulled by an algorithm. Right,

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Speaker 2: He's clearly had some understanding of like, if I phrased

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Speaker 2: this in a certain way online, my business will be

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Speaker 2: suggested to people who are nearby who need medical help.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: NBC News describes what happened next. She called the office

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Speaker 2: located in her hometown of West Palm Beach and spoke

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Speaker 2: with a man named doctor Malachi love Robinson, who offered

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Speaker 2: to pay her and a home visit. Wearing a white

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Speaker 2: lab coat and stethoscope slung around his neck, Love Robinson

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Speaker 2: examined Morrison, focusing on her legs, heart, and lung. She

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Speaker 2: said he told her she had arthritis. Then he sold

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Speaker 2: her natural vitamins to dold the discomfort.

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Speaker 3: She said.

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Speaker 2: She allowed the baby faced physician to return four more times,

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Speaker 2: although by early January she realized something wasn't right inside

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Speaker 2: her home. Personal checks went missing. So he's just sort

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Speaker 2: of robbing this old lady woah, using being at to

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Speaker 2: get into our house and then taking stuff from her.

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Speaker 3: Washington. Yeah, it's gross, right, makes it so mad? It

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Speaker 3: makes mad. Yeah, Like it's just like the I mean, uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, as doctors, I'll be the first to say

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Speaker 3: we're not perfect and call us out for our many

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Speaker 3: many faults.

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Speaker 2: But of course not I've heard of a podcaster or

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Speaker 2: two who's done bad things.

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Speaker 3: Oh I have not, never, never, but definitely it's happened.

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Speaker 3: And it's like the we try our best to create

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Speaker 3: a sense of trust with our patients and to do

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Speaker 3: house visit is a pretty uncommon thing, and it's such

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Speaker 3: a rare thing that when I hear of it happens still,

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Speaker 3: and it still does happen rarely. There's a part of

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Speaker 3: me that loves it just because, like it is the

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Speaker 3: most old fashioned, the heart of medicine, going to where

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Speaker 3: the patient's at, both you know, literally and in all

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Speaker 3: in some senses, you know, figuratively meeting them where they're at.

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Speaker 3: And in this case, he's taken that trust and he

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Speaker 3: is using it to his own nefarious gains. And it

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Speaker 3: really pisses me off because at least when a doctor,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if it's better when a

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Speaker 3: doctor does it a bad thing or not, but you

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Speaker 3: know the fact that someone is mustling in and trying

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Speaker 3: to use our title in that way like we don't

355
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Speaker 3: have enough problem makes me so angry. Oh yeah, angry.

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Speaker 3: I hope something bad happens to this kid.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it doesn't go like yes as a spoiler,

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Speaker 2: it does, so. The Washington Post reports at the final

359
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Speaker 2: straw for Anita, the woman that he is stealing from,

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Speaker 2: Kames comes when she calls him over because she's again

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Speaker 2: she keeps experiencing pain, probably because he's not treating.

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Speaker 3: Whatever thing is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he tells her that she needs to go

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Speaker 2: to the hospital, right, And his plan was to rob

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Speaker 2: her home after she was taken away and blame anything

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Speaker 2: missing on the fact that, well, you're old, you know

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Speaker 2: you just forgot right. But Anita hands him her purse,

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Speaker 2: say she's being taken away by like the EMTs, and

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Speaker 2: to put back in her house, and he takes her

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Speaker 2: check book and he starts cashing fraudulent checks all around town.

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Speaker 2: So that makes it pretty easy for her to call

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Speaker 2: the authorities and they set up a sting by the

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Speaker 2: bang Baya Boom.

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Speaker 3: He gets arrested.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: This is the point at which the news starts covering

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00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 2: the story. Malachi was eighteen now, which meant they could

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00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 2: publish his name and he had now robbed an old

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Speaker 2: lady if it turned out to be like thirty four

380
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Speaker 2: thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: So wow, at this point where like he does not

382
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Speaker 3: deserve the benefit of you know, maybe he could get

383
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,080
Speaker 3: better here. Let's let's put up on blast effectively.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,200
Speaker 3: This is not like him being like he's a sick

386
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Speaker 3: kid who needs help. I mean this is really thought out. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean it's not a bad strategy to be honest

388
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,479
Speaker 3: with you. No, no, no. When someone's going to the hospital,

389
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 3: there's so much chaos around that, and they're so sick,

390
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 3: and they have so many other things to worry about,

391
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Speaker 3: you would think that it's the last thing on their

392
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Speaker 3: mind to think about where their checkbook is. Of course,

393
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Speaker 3: so it's really well thought out and it's so despicable.

394
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no it is, and it shows you know,

395
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,200
Speaker 2: he's got he's obviously smart enough understands how to manipulate

396
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 2: the Internet and these algorithms in order to put himself

397
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 2: in a position. He's got some degree of social manipulating ability.

398
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 2: But he also doesn't seem to have the self control.

399
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,240
Speaker 2: I think a more skilled con man would have been like, okay,

400
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 2: I've gotten five to ten grand out of this old lady.

401
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 2: Time to move on, you know, like eventually she'll notice

402
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,760
Speaker 2: and that'll get me in trouble. So I'm going to

403
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,640
Speaker 2: mosey on down the street. Not trying to give people advice.

404
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,880
Speaker 2: I'm just analyzing this guy. One of the things that's

405
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,280
Speaker 2: interesting when you read articles about him, they some of them,

406
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 2: like the Washington Post piece, have these details about his family,

407
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,640
Speaker 2: and every single fact you learn about this guy sounds

408
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 2: like another scam that we just haven't uncovered yet.

409
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 3: It's amazing.

410
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 2: Quote Love Robinson's grandfather, William Robinson, said this is all

411
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,880
Speaker 2: a misunderstanding. He told The Son Sentinel that the team

412
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: never claimed to be a medical doctor, just a holistic doctor,

413
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,440
Speaker 2: and that he held certificates to practice from online schools.

414
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,680
Speaker 2: He was pursuing things, but I don't really know what

415
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: it came to. Robinson said. He was pursuing the field

416
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 2: that he wanted to get into a local station w PBF.

417
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 2: Realize this kid was willing to talk and smelled like this,

418
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 2: They're like, Okay, there's content here. So they reach out

419
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,000
Speaker 2: to this kid and they're like, hey, is there any

420
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: chance you were the little boy who pretended to be

421
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 2: a doctor at that hospital last year, and Malachi's answer was,

422
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 2: I requested shadow physicians. Next thing I know, cops are there.

423
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,920
Speaker 2: That's all I know. I have no idea NBC does

424
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 2: more digging, because by now reporters are calling Malachi doctor love,

425
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 2: and I think they're doing that. I think whoever did

426
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 2: that was like, there's a pretty good chance this gets

427
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 2: turned into a Netflix series, and I want it to

428
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 2: be based off of my article, so let's try to

429
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 2: find a title here. Yeah, and they find out that

430
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: he does have one seemingly legitimate qualification, which is a

431
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 2: certification from the American Association of Druglist Practitioners.

432
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Speaker 3: You heard of these guys, Kave, I have not, but

433
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 3: I don't love the sound of it.

434
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 2: No, No, that's because they're bullshit. They are like a

435
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 2: real thing. They're just a real thing for conment, right, yeah, Ah,

436
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 2: Conment's not the right term. They're a real thing for kooks,

437
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 2: for cranks, you know, not saying that like you always

438
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 2: need to use drugs to treat problems. There's a number

439
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: of problems that have treatments that aren't based in drug giving.

440
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 2: People keep telling me like, yeah, but all of my

441
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 2: problems require drugs, Sophie like of being sober, which is

442
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,080
Speaker 2: why I need to drink this creative lemonade.

443
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 3: You know, I will say this, well he drinks his

444
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 3: creative lemonade, which he just took a huge swig of.

445
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, baby. You know, I'm not gonna sit here

446
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 3: and say that Western medicine has the complete knowledge of

447
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 3: everything that happens with the patient. I mean, there's lots

448
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 3: that we can learn from other places, and I'm open

449
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 3: minded to things, but you know, we look for proof,

450
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 3: we look for evidence, and when there's not, there's this

451
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 3: big vacuum, and in that vacuum gets all that space

452
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 3: gets filled with grifters, almost all of it.

453
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 2: And it's yeah, it's one thing to be like, you know,

454
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: I have had you know, I had a lower back

455
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 2: problem right that I dealt with through like a physical

456
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: therapy regimen. I didn't use drugs for it. Sometimes that works.

457
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: But saying that I'm just a drugless medical practitioner, well no, sometimes,

458
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 2: how are you going to druglessly treat the flu?

459
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 3: Like?

460
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: How are you going to deal with like cancer without

461
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 2: any drugs?

462
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 3: You know, like medication exists for a reason, right, Yeah,

463
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 3: to your beautiful four parter on Steve jobs for that. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

464
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 2: Look at what happened with Steve when he tried to

465
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 2: cure his cancer with apples. So the American Association of

466
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: druglest Practitioners are based out of Galveston, which is the

467
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: first black mark against them. Nothing good comes out of Galveston,

468
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 2: or will it ever? More to the point, anyone can

469
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: join their organization, not any doctor, anybody, right, So you

470
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,919
Speaker 2: can be a druglist practitioner, which, like I don't know

471
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 2: if you're just like Ted who works as an accountant

472
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: or whatever, Like what are you a druglist practitioner of accounting? Yeah,

473
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 2: you don't have to be any kind of medical professional.

474
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 3: Right.

475
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: Essentially, the number of people who could join this association

476
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 2: is encompasses everyone on earth.

477
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 3: Right.

478
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: If you ever treated a cold by just like waiting

479
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 2: until it got better, congratulations you qualify.

480
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

481
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: So the AADP is primarily a way for holistic practitioners

482
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: without real qualifications to say, number one, this is a

483
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: thing that I can like put in a frame, right,

484
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 2: I can have it up in my office or whatever,

485
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: and it looks like I've it looks like a certification.

486
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: Right to somebody who doesn't know anything. And it's also

487
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 2: kind of a way to say I don't prescribe medications,

488
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 2: So you can't get angry at me for saying I'm

489
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: a doctor, right and giving someone wild honey for their

490
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 2: lymphatic cancer or whatever, because I that's just not the

491
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 2: kind of doctor that I am. NBC reached out to

492
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: the group's director and were like, hey, this absolute con

493
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 2: man who robbed a lady said that he was certified

494
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 2: by your organization, And the guy who runs the AADP

495
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Our credentials don't confer the

496
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: ability to diagnose your treat patients, right, that's not what

497
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: this is about. So like, what the fuck is it about?

498
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: It's just there so quack doctors can stick a thing

499
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 2: on their wall, right.

500
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: I recognize also that I might sound a bit hypocritical

501
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 3: here when I say this, but because I'm a member

502
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 3: of the Universal Life Church and I'm al so I

503
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 3: can do That's the next paragraph, BROD.

504
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 2: So this guy, the head of the AADP says that, like,

505
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 2: because Malachi lied about being a doctor, we've kicked him

506
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 2: out of the AADP. You know, we police our own right,

507
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: And I'm going to continue from NBC here. This is

508
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 2: where we bring in the Universal Life Church. In addition,

509
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 2: Love Robinson's doctorate was from the online Universal Life Church Seminary.

510
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 2: According to documents released by the Florida Department of Health,

511
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 2: the degree in Divinity can be bought from the site

512
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: for twenty nine to ninety five. You will be legally

513
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: entitled to use the title doctor in front of your name,

514
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: indeed after your name, the website says. Now, look, covet,

515
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: I also have have used the Universal Life Church to

516
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 2: allow me to do things to people, like marry them.

517
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 2: That was a creepy way to phrase that.

518
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: Did things to people, for sure, some people might say

519
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 3: that's invasive.

520
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 2: Look, the Universal Life Church has meant a lot of

521
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: fun for all of us. There's but there's no reason

522
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 2: to include the line you will be legally entitled to

523
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 2: use the title doctor unless you're selling this for scammers

524
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 2: who are going to run cons like we can all

525
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: agree that, right, there's no other reason to say that.

526
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: I have to. I have to say yes, I do agree,

527
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: and that bothers me to be honest with you. So

528
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 3: I did it also so I could marry some of

529
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 3: my friends. I mean, I didn't marry them myself. I

530
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 3: married not but we know. Yeah, so you know, but

531
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: I thought the term that you could use was healer.

532
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 3: I didn't realize you could use the word doctor. I

533
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 3: feel like that is a big difference.

534
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: Well, because it's the doctorate of divinity.

535
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, you didn't have to worry about that, you already

536
00:25:58,880 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 4: have that title.

537
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is true. Yeah, I guess maybe I wasn't

538
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: paying attention. I'll have to look back at that.

539
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: Speaking of the Universal Life Church, you know, who else

540
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: has the right to marry anyone they want.

541
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 3: I'm gonna guess Blue Apron can marry people. Really, if

542
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 3: you don't want to get married, they can force you

543
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 3: to get married.

544
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: They can, and they often do. Look if you see

545
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 2: anyone with the Blue Apron armband, run run for your life.

546
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: Your freedom means nothing to them. Ah, we're back back.

547
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: Hold up in three separate, undisclosed locations, hiding from Blue

548
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: Aprons shock troops as they as they comb the West Coast.

549
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 5: Another Apron conspiracy that our listeners are gonna take to

550
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 5: be true.

551
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, Sophie, I thought I was going

552
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 2: to be better about this sort of thing. But it's

553
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: like we always say on the show Power corrupts and

554
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: it's all also really fun to be corrupt. So I'm

555
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 2: just going to keep going.

556
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 5: You are such a healer, doctor Maggie.

557
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: Please, thank you, Reverend doctor Evans. That's a real one though.

558
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: That comes from the state of New Jersey, you know,

559
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: and that's an actual state allegedly.

560
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 4: That it comes from the state of New Jersey.

561
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: Wow, they have trees, they have nice trees, and they

562
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: got nice trees.

563
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: My old boss, Dan O'Brien sopranos, sopranos.

564
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,719
Speaker 5: That's three good things that you get your taxes.

565
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 4: Great.

566
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: So the state of Florida, play against type stopped allowing

567
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: natura paths to examine patients in nineteen fifty seven. I

568
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 2: was actually shocked when I heard this.

569
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 3: That it's better than I mean thought Florida would be

570
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 3: doing on that. Even what their surgeon general is doing currently,

571
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 3: that is amazing. That must have been done well before

572
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 3: he was there.

573
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is fifty seven right now. And

574
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: it's also not as good as it sounds, because well,

575
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: they're not allowed to examine patients, they are allowed to

576
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: consult on patients, and this is kind of the gray

577
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: area that doc Love was hoping to sail through once

578
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 2: he got caught right that, like, I'm not treating patients,

579
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: I'm consulting. I have the right, but like he also

580
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: stole a bunch of people, right, money from people, and

581
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: in addition to stealing money from people the way that

582
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 2: he was able to like because he was he was

583
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 2: like billing Medicare too for the treatments that he was doing,

584
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 2: because he's working these old ladies. And you know, as

585
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: you I'm sure you know, Kava. In order to bill Medicare,

586
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: you have to have what's called an NPI or national

587
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 2: provider number. This is the number that Medicare and also

588
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: health insurance companies use it to identify physicians for the

589
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: purpose of approving billing rights.

590
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 3: To give you Roberts a stop asking.

591
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, all I need is your signature for right now.

592
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: When I first started looking at A. Malachi's case, it

593
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 2: was not clear to me how he faked his NPI,

594
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: and the articles I read seemed to be kind of

595
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: like confused on the matter, right, I think there were

596
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: a couple of different theories positive but when I looked

597
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: into it, this is what's getting into the actual like

598
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 2: over conspiracy sea of the episode, it's like, anyone can

599
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 2: fake an MPI. It's the easiest thing in the world

600
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: to do. There is absolutely no protections stopping people from

601
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 2: faking this.

602
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 3: And why that.

603
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: Is the case, and how health insurance companies play into

604
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: it is kind of going to be the big overarching

605
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 2: theme of the episode. But what matters for the moment

606
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: is that once he's in the system and he's got

607
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: his NPI, he found it easy to get his information

608
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: added to various online databases of medical practitioners, which helped

609
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 2: him fill out his faux resume. Right after he got

610
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 2: caught and loudly proclaimed that the newsman covering his case

611
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: would all see it was just a misunderstanding, he disconnected

612
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: his phone and put up a Facebook page claiming he

613
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 2: had stage two kidney cancer. Then he took down his

614
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: Facebook in one yeah dad, like eighteen something like that. Yeah,

615
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Bro Malachi was sentenced to twenty

616
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: eight months in jail, and in the interim period where

617
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: his case went forward, he left the state of Florida

618
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: illegally and tried to buy a thirty five thousand dollars

619
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: Jaguar in Virginia, accompanied by a very old, and he

620
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: was planning to trick into buying the car for him.

621
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 2: Oh god, when when questioned, he varyingly identified the woman

622
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: as his mother and godmother, and like it was such

623
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: an obvious scam that I think it's like the car

624
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 2: dealers who turn him in, and like, if you're too

625
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: shady for a car salesman, holy shit, you gotta really

626
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: be doing something that's like, that's like a guy at

627
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 2: a gun store not selling you a gun. You have

628
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: to have you have to be really really putting out

629
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: bad vibes.

630
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 3: Where was it? Where was it?

631
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: This isn't like, uh Virginia, Oh wow.

632
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: Used car dealer somewhere in Virginia. Was like, no, maybe

633
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 3: it wasn't used. I don't know. Yeah, not gonna do it?

634
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 3: Well do it. And this is why.

635
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: We're not gonna be able to do a whole episode

636
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: on Doctor Love. He gets caught very early, right he

637
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: he he flew too close to the sun, and now

638
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: he's kind of he's dropped out of the medical stuff

639
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: and he's just another incompetent serial scammer.

640
00:30:59,240 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 5: You know.

641
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: Obviously the prison did not help him. You know, whatever

642
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: he had that made him want to do this in

643
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 2: the first place, it just made worse and now he's

644
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: like fucked up, probably because prison's traumatic and he just

645
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: so he just keeps doing other scams. He gets released

646
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, and he's immediately arrested again for trying

647
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: to defraud his new employer by having like payments from

648
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: shipping companies diverted to his private account. It was all

649
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: these are all like bad cons and like I read

650
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: one article with a quote from him where he's just

651
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: like sobbing, He's like, sorry, please don't send me back

652
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: to jail. It's a fucking bummer because like this this

653
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: kid did as fucked up, but he was also eighteen

654
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: and like, yeah, clearly locking him up did not. It

655
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: hasn't made it better, you know.

656
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm torn because on one hand, if I

657
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 3: wasn't a doctor, I might appreciate this, you know, little

658
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 3: rascal for what he's been up to, but it's not

659
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 3: a rascal. It's bad, yeah, he's but he is a naughty,

660
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: naughty young man. Yeah, and to use what little goodwill

661
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 3: we still have as doctors and abuse it makes me

662
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 3: very upset.

663
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: So it is it is.

664
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: I'm torn. I'm torn on this one. But I am

665
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: sort of glad that he is at least a name

666
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: that people hopefully recognize and can google and can be like,

667
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: this guy is full of shit.

668
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: I mean, that's certainly important. I just am also like, well,

669
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,719
Speaker 2: fuck locking him up. He just keeps doing cons. Like, clearly,

670
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: whatever the solution if you want. If the solution is

671
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 2: this kid is not able to like do cons anymore,

672
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 2: you're left with either just put him lock him up forever,

673
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: which doesn't seem right, or something else. I don't really

674
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: know what that else is, but putting him in jail

675
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 2: for two years did not stop him from trying to

676
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: hurt people. It does seem like the fact that he

677
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: is now kind of a famous con artist has made

678
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: it easy to catch him.

679
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's clearly part.

680
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 2: Of Like publicizing this is clearly part of the solution.

681
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: Right Anyway, when I first came about this story and

682
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: the next one we're going to talk about, which is

683
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: much more severe, much more severe, oh my god, it's

684
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 2: one of the worst things I've ever heard of in

685
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: the medical profession. Kaba again, I was just got to

686
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 2: cover these as kind of here's like a pot pourrie

687
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: episode of some fake doctors. But both of these people

688
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about today, Malachi and the frauds

689
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: were about to discuss, got away with what they did

690
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: because they abused the NPI system. And that tickled something

691
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,719
Speaker 2: in the back of my brain, and as I started

692
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 2: digging around, I came to a realization. But I want

693
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: to I'm going to take you to that process organically.

694
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: I just want people to know there's something more here.

695
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: This is not just going to be like an assortment

696
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: of fucked up tales.

697
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 5: Right.

698
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: So the next place we're going to go is the

699
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: tragic story of the Jenkins family, Sherry Anne and Oliver. Now,

700
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: Oliver was a real doctor, the only one we will

701
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: be talking about in this episode, right. He was an

702
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: e n t ear nosen throat specialist. But that you know,

703
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: you got to stare down a lot of people's nasty

704
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: throats to do that job, right, and more importantly, doing

705
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 2: that does not pay enough for the comfort of missus

706
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: sherry Anne Jenkins, Right, this is going to be a

707
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 2: problem for her.

708
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: You know, it's not a bad saying gig. Though I'm curious,

709
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 3: I'm not a.

710
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: Big You're right, you think you could live very confetly,

711
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 2: especially since Shery Anne is not a medical doctor, but

712
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: she is a PhD. Now I can't say and what.

713
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 2: I haven't found any evidence as to what, but like

714
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 2: real newspapers cite her as being a PhD.

715
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: She's yeah, maybe universe versa life jeards, I don't know.

716
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: She was born in nineteen fifty nine, and in November

717
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 2: of twenty thirteen, when she was around fifty four years old,

718
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 2: she and her husband started a section. So her husband

719
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 2: works for the Toledo Clinic. That's how it's named in

720
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: like the court filings, and they started a cognitive center

721
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 2: at the Toledo Clinic. So you've got this real clinic

722
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 2: where there are multiple real doctors doing real procedures and

723
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: really treating patients. And her husband, a real doctor, starts

724
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: a cognitive center there. Now you might think that's a

725
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 2: little odd because he's an E and T doctor, right

726
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: the here knows and throat are important, but they are

727
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: notably not the brain.

728
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: I'm waiting to I'm willing to see how they connected this.

729
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think Sherry Anne is she has like

730
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 2: some like her PhD is in like some sort of

731
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 2: neuro science sort of thing. But it's not like she's not, again,

732
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 2: not at all a medical doctor. So Sherry is the

733
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: one who's actually doing all of the work at the

734
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: cognitive center. But she's using her husband's practitioner number, his

735
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 2: NPI number to invoice medicare. Now, she is doing the

736
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 2: exams herself, she is doing the treatment herself, she is

737
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 2: prescribing medicine herself. She's just using her husband's inn PI number.

738
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: That alone is several kinds of fraud.

739
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 3: Super bad. Not supposed to be doing that, super bad.

740
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 3: People go to school for this sort of thing. Yeah,

741
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 3: I mean, and doctors will work with nurse practitioners, physicians, assistants.

742
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 3: There's there's they work with non doctors of course. Yeah,

743
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 3: you don't work with a PhD who has no medical.

744
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 2: Training to do exactly when you especially when you're talking

745
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 2: about like weird cognitive rare things. It's very likely that

746
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: you would have a real doctor who might work with

747
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 2: someone who's got like a PhD in neuroscience, and that

748
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: person would contribute to them figuring out what to do.

749
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 2: But the doctor is still the one doing the diagnosis

750
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: and whatnot and filing these things. From what I can

751
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: discern from past reporting and court records, the actual scam

752
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: here was very simple, very simple, and very vile. The

753
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: Jenkins Is found out that one of the things Medicare

754
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 2: pays really well for is ordering pet scans and diagnosing

755
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 2: people with Alzheimer's, Like it's a it's a good payment

756
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: that you get for doing these things. Right, So because

757
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: the Medicare rates for these the tests that you have

758
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: to do this are are pretty good, and because most

759
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: people find Alzheimer's the most terrifying diagnosis imaginable, if you

760
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: tell them that they have Alzheimer's, they will immediately agree

761
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: to whatever kind of ongoing treatment you tell them they

762
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: need to take. Right But in part because there's kind

763
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: of overwhelmed with the numb shock that comes with getting diagnosed,

764
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: like that is a your life, at least in the

765
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 2: way most people see it. I'm sure there have been

766
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: I dealt with. I have a family history of well

767
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: we thought it was Alzheimer's. They tended to be Louis body,

768
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 2: but for the whole time that she lived with us,

769
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 2: we thought my grandmother had Alzheimer's. They look very similar.

770
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: So I'm aware of like how jarring this is and

771
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 2: what a kind of a disorienting thing this is, especially

772
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: if you're younger when it happens.

773
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: Right.

774
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 2: So they seem to be taking advantage of both of

775
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: these facts. Number one, the rates that we get for

776
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: doing the tests to diagnose Alzheimer's are.

777
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 3: Really good, right.

778
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: And number two, if you tell someone they have Alzheimer's,

779
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: it shocks them enough that they don't think too much

780
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: about what else you're going to start asking them.

781
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 3: Right.

782
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,439
Speaker 2: These two things are kind of key to the kN

783
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,479
Speaker 2: So I guess it's possible that Cherry Inn is to

784
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 2: some extent diluted about her capabilities, right, that she really

785
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: thought that she was diagnosing some of these people because

786
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 2: some of the people she diagnosed with Alzheimer's did turn

787
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: out to have Alzheimer's. Now, that's not so weird, Nor

788
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: does it really hint that she was actually more competent

789
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 2: than you might think, because this is a cognitive clinic

790
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: that specialized in people who are having like memory issues, Right,

791
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: And if that's your business, a decent number of the

792
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 2: people who come to you will in fact have Alzheimer's, Right. Yeah,

793
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,959
Speaker 2: But what's important is that while some of the folks

794
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 2: she diagnosed did have the thing she diagnosed them with,

795
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: she was giving out the diagnosis like candy to basically

796
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: everyone who came in with any kind of memory issue,

797
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: right And not only was she billing for the tests

798
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: that would have been necessary if you were looking for Alzheimer's,

799
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: she would build for tests that were unnecessary even if

800
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: that is what you were doing, and she was not

801
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: actually performing these tests. Right now, telling someone that they

802
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: have Alzheimer's when they don't is one of the worst

803
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: things that you can do to a person, and this

804
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 2: quote from an article in the Chicago Tribune gets across

805
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: how disorienting her diagnoses were to the patients that she

806
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 2: was tricking. Quote Sean Blazak knew a string of concussions

807
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 2: from high school football and boxing was catching up with him.

808
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: He would go days without sleeping and was forgetting how

809
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: to tie his shoes. Still at age thirty three, he

810
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 2: was stunned after being told he had Alzheimer's disease. He

811
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: started planning out who would take care of his four

812
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: kids if something happened to his wife, and he thought

813
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 2: about how hard it would be for them when he

814
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: could no longer recognize his family. So he stuffed fistfuls

815
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 2: of sleeping pills into a bottle and wrote himself a

816
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 2: note vowing to swallow all of them if he wasn't

817
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: able to remember the names of his children.

818
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: Oh Jesus, that is fuzzy, devast fucking devastating, because again,

819
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 3: it's one of these situations. It's one of these situations

820
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 3: where there is like this gray zone where it's a hord.

821
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 3: A lot of times these neurological diagnoses are really difficult

822
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: to do with course, and that's why we have neurologists

823
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 3: like specifically and psychiatrists too, who specifically work in these areas.

824
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 3: And again, when there's any sort of doubt, when there's

825
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 3: any sort of question, these these people come in and

826
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: they fill that space. And that's what. Oh, it's so terrible.

827
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 3: Thirty three year old and just like to end his

828
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 3: life if he has one bad day.

829
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's a fucking nightmare. But you know

830
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: what's not a nightmare, cove.

831
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 3: Ah, I'm gonna guess it's the wonderful products and or

832
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 3: services this program. That's right.

833
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: We are sponsored by the concept of not being a

834
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: professional boxer, so please please avoid that.

835
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 3: It turns out it's very bad for you. We're back.

836
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: What if instead of face punching. Boxing was all dick punches.

837
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 2: That could a better show, right, Yeah, I mean no.

838
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 3: Chronic traumatic encephalitis. There's no like, you know, connection to

839
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 3: Parkinson's as far as I know, I think, just as

840
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: long as they're okay with the fact that they're probably

841
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: not going to have kids, just punch each other in

842
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 3: the dick a lot.

843
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just dick punches.

844
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 5: Mike, Mike Tyson and Jake Paul the funniest thing they

845
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 5: do right now.

846
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 3: I would pay so much money to watch that fight.

847
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 3: Mike Tyson would just evaporate chickballs. It would be gone,

848
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 3: like like when you blow on one of those those

849
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 3: flowers that's got a million little seats. Do you guys

850
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 3: ever watch the slap fights, like where people like slap

851
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 3: each other, Like, yeah, sure, that that's insane, that that's

852
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 3: a thing that happens. That's so. I see a couple

853
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 3: of these videos where they get so hard that they

854
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 3: start to like get into these weird like positions. Is

855
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 3: bad for you, Like I think they're having like brain damage,

856
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 3: like actively you can see from like the seizures are having.

857
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: It's terrible. Sports are fun. I think we should go.

858
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 2: I just found out it used to be an Olympic event.

859
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 2: It was dueling where you would shoot like wax bullets

860
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: at each other and you would wear like protective vests.

861
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: And I think we should go back to that. I

862
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 2: feel like, there's no yeah.

863
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 3: Why not?

864
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 2: Why not watch people shoot each other on television with

865
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 2: guns that can't kill them? Much better than punching each

866
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: other's faces until their brains melt.

867
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm listening. I'm open to it.

868
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it, folks. Anyway, we're back, folks. Another

869
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 2: absolutely well. Another of the Jenkins' victims is Deborah Schmidt.

870
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 2: Deborah was diagnosed in twenty fifteen by Sherry with Alzheimer's. Now,

871
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: one of the things you noted is that, like, this

872
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 2: is tough. These are not diseases that we have a

873
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: great handle on. So mistakes get made, and Debor did

874
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: what you should do in that situation. She went to

875
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: another doctor for a second opinion. First, she goes to

876
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 2: another guy who works at the clinic I think that

877
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 2: she had just worked with before, James Aubril, and she

878
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 2: was like, Hey, I don't think I have Alzheimer's, but

879
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 2: this guy, this lady, says I do. And James counseled

880
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 2: her to go back in and is like, well, you know,

881
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: I'm sure that the clinic is a real clinic, so

882
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: you should probably just like keep going in. So she

883
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: goes back to the clinic and she does a cognitive test.

884
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: Cherry Anne is like, yeah, you've definitely got Alzheimer's even.

885
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 3: More time, even more super Alzheimer's. Now you have meg Alzheimer's.

886
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: Now and then and then says, if you want to

887
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 2: slow the advance, the only thing that could help is

888
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: coconut oil.

889
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: Oh man, come on, people, I know everyone falls for

890
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 3: a scam. I believe it. I believe there's a scam

891
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: for everybody. I believe it for sume on.

892
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: Look, there's a lot of great things about coconut oil.

893
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: It tastes good. I think it's relatively heart healthy. Don't

894
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: quote me on that.

895
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you want to cook with it, fine,

896
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 3: it's not going to cure you're Alzheimer's. Now.

897
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: I did look into this because I was like, I

898
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 2: hadn't actually heard of this. I was, is this like

899
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: a thing in like bullshit medicine circles? And it sure is.

900
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 2: And the explanation for this is that there is a

901
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: substance contained in coconut oil, caprilic acid, that may be

902
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 2: useful as part of a treatment for Alzheimer's. Studies are ongoing,

903
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: and medicine that contains caprilic acid is in stage two

904
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: clinical trials. Now number one, that doesn't mean that it works,

905
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 2: but number two, that's not the same as coconut oil

906
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 2: halting Alzheimer's.

907
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 3: Right, this is a super important point and if I

908
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 3: can just make a quick stop it, Yeah, what will

909
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,320
Speaker 3: happen a lot in medicine is you'll see a headline

910
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 3: they'll say like this spice will help with this cancer,

911
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 3: and we're in reality it's like maybe some component that's

912
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 3: in this food or this spice may have something in

913
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 3: it that if taken out and produced in a different

914
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: way and given to you in the right way, might

915
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 3: if the studies show. But in reality, for example, everyone

916
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 3: talked about turmeric how it helps your liver, but in

917
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 3: reality there is one component of it that does seem

918
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 3: to help, but when you take it, it gets broken

919
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 3: down into an inactive component that doesn't help your liver.

920
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 3: So taking it like orally taking it for food great.

921
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 3: These things are oftentimes harmless. Sometimes they are harmful. But

922
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: usually the harmless. But the studies aren't necessarily there yet

923
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 3: to prove that they help. In this case, this acid,

924
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 3: if it's studied and it shows to be helpful in

925
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 3: specific ways, it won't be getting it through coconut oil.

926
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 3: It will be like like a compound of it that's

927
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: really high quantities that you could take. So it's not

928
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 3: to be when you read these headlines that say something like,

929
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 3: you know, eating this blank thing will help your diabetes. Mean,

930
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 3: there might be some kernel of truth to it, but

931
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: it's a long way from that to something clinically important.

932
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 3: I beg people to keep that in mind.

933
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 2: It's the thing like people only do this with foods,

934
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 2: right because if you hear, hey, they found a spider

935
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 2: in the Amazon, that's venom is going to it can

936
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: be like we think will be part could be used

937
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: to like make a cancer treatment. Right, Well, you understand

938
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: that what that means is that there's some compound in

939
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: the venom that when isolated and added probably to a

940
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 2: cocktail of other compounds, might be useful in some sort

941
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: of cancer treatment. You don't believe, Well, if I've got cancer,

942
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: I need to fly to the Amazon and get that

943
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: spider to bite me right, that's not. But if you

944
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: hear that like a compound and fucking avocados might be

945
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 2: a useful part of a case answer treatment, you'll always

946
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 2: get grifters being like, don't go to the doctor for

947
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: your cancer, eat a million avocados, And no, that's not

948
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: how avocado's work. That's not how cancer works. Please don't

949
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 2: do this exactly. And that is the case with this, right.

950
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 2: There is no evidence whatsoever that coconut oil itself can

951
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 2: stop or hault the progression of Alzheimer's. A lot of

952
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 2: this myth took off in twenty fifteen, which is the

953
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: year that this is. That's why she says it right,

954
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: because it was in vogue then, and it's in vogue

955
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 2: thanks to doctor Mary Newport. Doctor Mary Newport started claiming

956
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: that a regiment of coconut oil had given her quote

957
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 2: a few extra good years with her husband after he

958
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 2: was diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer's. I am sure Mary's

959
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: case is very sad, but there is no evidence to

960
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: support the claim made on the website US against Alzheimer's

961
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 2: when it covered her story. Quote, what if a spoonful

962
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 2: of coconut oil each day, We're all it took to

963
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 2: reverse or slow down the symptoms of Alzheimer's. Now there

964
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 2: is research as to whether or not just coconut oil

965
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 2: itself might have a positive impact act on Alzheimer's. Research

966
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: does not mean evidence, it means research. I found a

967
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two article on CTV News announcing the start

968
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 2: of a study by the Health Bird Alzheimer's Institute to

969
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: study the impact of coconut oil versus a placebo on

970
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 2: sixty five Alzheimer's patients. That article notes that it is

971
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: the first clinical trial of its kind, but also admits

972
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: there is currently no clinical data showing the benefits of

973
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: coconut oil on the prevention and treatment of dementia. Newport,

974
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: whose husband Steve was diagnosed with Alzheimer's at age fifty one,

975
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 2: said she began to see improvements after YadA, YadA, YadA. Right,

976
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: So that's all there is. Right now, there is a

977
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: study that has not we have no evidence on and

978
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: there is no actual evidence that just coconut oil helps.

979
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 2: Is this lady felt like it helped her husband, And

980
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: I don't have any problem with like, yeah, sure, do

981
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 2: a study, right, see see if you find anything. I

982
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: do have a problem with blasting the internet with like,

983
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 2: take a spoonful of coconut oil to now if you're

984
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 2: also doing treatment, you know, and you just add a

985
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: spoonful of coconut oil that makes you feel better, there's

986
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: no harm to it. You're not gonna you're not gonna

987
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 2: damage anybody by giving them a spoonful of coconut oil

988
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: each day. But like, don't do it in lieu of

989
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 2: medical treatments, right, yeah, and don't also pretend people have

990
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's when they're not.

991
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 3: If I could also add one thing to that for listeners,

992
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 3: if you ever feel like you need to get a

993
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 3: second opinion, do so. Yes, you're not going to offend

994
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 3: your doctor. Like every doctor has a patient, go seek

995
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,479
Speaker 3: a second opinion. That is okay. We want what's best

996
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 3: for We're supposed to want what's best for you, and

997
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,319
Speaker 3: if some other doctor has a better idea of how

998
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 3: to do that, we're all for it. So if you

999
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 3: feel like some and it sometimes it's even if you

1000
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: like what the doctor's telling you, but you still want

1001
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 3: to get another opinion, we understand. If a doctor doesn't

1002
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: get that, that's on them. That's weird, and most of

1003
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 3: us will get it.

1004
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those things like, yeah, probably unreasonable

1005
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 2: to go to a second opinion if you've got a

1006
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: flu or whatever, right, but like Alzheimer's is a big deal,

1007
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: And like I said, you're like, they misdiagnosed my grandma. Now,

1008
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: given the state of Alzheimer's and Louis body treatment in

1009
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: the early two thousands, I don't think it would have

1010
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 2: many difference, Like you're not going to like give them

1011
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,359
Speaker 2: like we just didn't have a good handle on either

1012
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: of them. You know, that's just the reality of the situation.

1013
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: So I don't know if miss Schmidt, who's the woman

1014
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 2: who's gotten diagnosed with Alzheimer's by Sherry Ann and then

1015
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 2: told to take coconut oil. I don't know if she

1016
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 2: like googled around and was like, there's no fucking evidence

1017
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: that this shit is in Alzheimer's treatment. But and I

1018
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: kind of think that's what happened because she refuses to

1019
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 2: take it, right, She's like, no, I'm not going to

1020
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 2: fucking take your coconut oil. I don't trust your diagnosis.

1021
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 2: Sherry Anne Jenkins reported her as non compliant in her

1022
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: official paperwork, and Chastis Schmidt then build Medicare twelve hundred

1023
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: and sixty seven dollars for the visit God. Now I

1024
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 2: found Schmid's experience chronicled in a lawsuit against the Jenkinses

1025
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: filed on behalf of Schmidt and others by the United

1026
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: States government. This is not super important, but it is

1027
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 2: very funny to me how this lawsuit opens. Now comes

1028
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: the United States of America buy and through relaters Deborah A.

1029
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 2: Schmidt and Mary case Smith for their complaint state and

1030
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:08,400
Speaker 2: averre the following. I just love that is the United

1031
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 2: States of America three hundred and ten pounds and six

1032
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:12,760
Speaker 2: foot seven baby.

1033
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 5: Wow.

1034
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 2: So the good news here is that Schmidt did seek

1035
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: a second opinion. She did not just take Jenkins's diagnosis,

1036
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: which is why again it's important.

1037
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 3: To do that.

1038
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 2: And in fact, a team of doctors at the Cleveland

1039
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 2: Clinics see her and they're like, what the fuck is

1040
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 2: this Jenkins lady talking about you're fine, right, And in

1041
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,080
Speaker 2: fact it's it's such a like that she goes to

1042
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 2: one doctor and eventually a whole team of them look

1043
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 2: her over and are like, yeah, you don't have Alzheimer's, right,

1044
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 2: You're just kind of old and forgetting a couple of things,

1045
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 2: but like you, there's no evidence of Alzheimer's. So when

1046
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 2: she learns this, she goes back to the Toledo clinic

1047
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: and she tells that neurologist she had been talking to,

1048
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,680
Speaker 2: doctor Aubril Hey Jenkins fucked up, to which the good

1049
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 2: doctor applied. I don't even want to hear that woman's name. Now,

1050
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 2: this is a story that's more worth more reporting. I'd

1051
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 2: really like to see a good documentary about this case.

1052
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 2: I'm sure one will come out eventually, because I don't

1053
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: really fully know how there's you certainly get you certainly

1054
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,399
Speaker 2: can see that, like over time, some of the other

1055
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: doctors at the clinic, outside of the cognitive clinic realize

1056
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 2: something shady is going on. I don't know if they're aware.

1057
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 2: I don't think they're aware that she is actually diagnosing

1058
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: patients and carrying out tests right because she's using her

1059
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 2: husband's NPI and she's not supposed to be doing that,

1060
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,879
Speaker 2: But they seem to be aware that, Like she's full

1061
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: as shit. So another client is Mary Smith. Mary sees

1062
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 2: an article on the Toledo's Cognitive Clinic made up as

1063
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: part of a PR blitz by the clinic that the

1064
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 2: Jenkinses were running right. Mary had been concerned about her memory,

1065
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 2: and she saw an ad in a local magazine that

1066
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: claimed Sherry and used quote neurocognitive testing coupled with pet

1067
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 2: CT scans that allowed her to see what part of

1068
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 2: a brain is functioning well and design protocols for each patient. Now,

1069
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: I'm not a doctor. That's is that more or less

1070
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 2: how it's supposed to work, right? That seems like basically

1071
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: how it's supposed to work.

1072
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 3: PET scans for Alzheimer's.

1073
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 2: So that's not how it's supposed to see. I'm not

1074
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 2: the doctor here, so that's not right.

1075
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I'm not a neurologists, so it's a

1076
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 3: bit on my wheelhouse. But SKI scans, for sure, I don't.

1077
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 3: I mean interesting you can make you you could make

1078
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 3: an argument like what activity is lighting up? What metabolic

1079
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 3: activity lights up? So a PET scan will look at

1080
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 3: metabolic activity. So if you're looking for cancer, for example,

1081
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,239
Speaker 3: you like do a PET scan and it'll light up

1082
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: in certain parts of your body where there's lots of

1083
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 3: metabolic activity, lots of things turning over, like a cancer

1084
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 3: would do lots of growth, lots of turnover. So I

1085
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe they do it for the brain. I

1086
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 3: don't know. I'd have to ask neurologists, but it seems

1087
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 3: like what's very hand wavy.

1088
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 2: What's important for this story is that they're lying about

1089
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 2: doing those tests, in large part because using those machines

1090
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 2: is expensive. You get to build medicare for them. But

1091
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 2: it's still like a thing, right, and you don't Your

1092
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 2: clinic usually does not have one. Right, maybe the whole

1093
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 2: has has access to one, but like your little cognitive center,

1094
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 2: you don't have your own. And it seems like the

1095
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: ginguss are trying to avoid kind of interacting with the

1096
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 2: rest of the Toledo clinic as much as possible. So

1097
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 2: when Smith comes in, instead of giving her a PET

1098
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 2: or a CT scan, she gives her a verbal test,

1099
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: tells her she's failed, and then she finds an old

1100
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 2: MRI scan of Smith's brain that was just on file

1101
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,799
Speaker 2: at the clinic, not a current one, and diagnoses her

1102
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: with Alzheimer's based on that. Right, So that's all a

1103
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 2: little shady.

1104
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,439
Speaker 3: It's all very shady, And I'm sorry just to cut

1105
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 3: in because I just looked up real quick. So it

1106
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 3: looks like because there's different types of PET scans, the

1107
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: type that we normally look at is called FDG, which

1108
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 3: is like the concentration of glucose and looks at like

1109
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 3: metabolic activity. So the one you apparently can use, and

1110
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 3: again a neurologist is going to correct me on this one,

1111
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 3: for this is amyloid PET to measure the build up

1112
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 3: of amyloids, like a protein that can build up. It's

1113
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 3: one of the key hallmarks of Alzheimer's, so it can

1114
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 3: look for build up of this protein. So there is

1115
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 3: a use for a specific type of PET ST scan. Okay, okay, yeah,

1116
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 3: and I had to get that up. No, no, And

1117
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 3: after this, she orders a real PET scan for Smith,

1118
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 3: and this again shows why she didn't like to do

1119
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 3: that because it puts Smith in the same room as

1120
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 3: a real doctor, the attending radiologist, right, and the radiologist

1121
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: does the PET scan, is like, hey, you know, this

1122
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: isn't my wheelhouse, but like everything looks fine to me,

1123
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 3: you know, just like you should have your doctor look

1124
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 3: this over because they're supposed to be the expert. But

1125
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 3: from what I can see, it doesn't look like you

1126
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 3: have Alzheimer's. So Smith goes home and is like, whoo,

1127
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 3: that's a load off my mind. The radiologist said, I'm

1128
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 3: probably fine, And then later that night, Jenkins calls her

1129
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 3: at home and is like, the radiologist was wrong.

1130
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 2: You've got the himers. You got to come back tomorrow

1131
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: and bring your whole family with you. Do doctors not

1132
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 2: say you've got the himers when they're diagnosing al Zeiper's

1133
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:53,439
Speaker 2: cotton They should it's not bad. And she's like, yeah,

1134
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 2: bring in your whole family. They all need to be here, right,

1135
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 2: because you can't trust your brain no more. So Smith

1136
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 2: does this and she tells her family and brings them in,

1137
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 2: and Jenkins like sits her down. She's like, you have

1138
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's And she tells her family you all have to

1139
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: take care of her now, right. She can't be on

1140
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 2: her own. You know, you're no longer an independent person. Also,

1141
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to do a telephone consult with

1142
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: you every three weeks and an office visit every three

1143
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 2: months for the rest of the time that she's alive.

1144
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,359
Speaker 2: And of course, Sherry Amn, this is the situation she

1145
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,360
Speaker 2: wants to lock every patient into because that means you

1146
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,120
Speaker 2: get to build like sixteen hundred bucks for every one

1147
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: of these visits, and that's a really regular income.

1148
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 3: Stream.

1149
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 2: She's just locked in medical gas lighting twenty some grand

1150
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: a year for herself just with that one patient.

1151
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 3: It's gaslighting at the highest level. It's like amazing, and.

1152
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 2: There's no real cost to the clinic. But Sherry's time, right,

1153
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 2: because this is just this person coming in and being told, hey,

1154
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 2: take some fucking coconut oil. Right, so she effectively and

1155
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 2: again obviously you can see if you can do that

1156
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: with ten people two hundred grand a year, twenty people

1157
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 2: four under grande, right, Like, this is like a sizable

1158
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,279
Speaker 2: amount of money that you can make doing this, in

1159
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 2: addition to the upfront cost which is probably in the

1160
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 2: ten to twenty grand of just like getting them diagnosed.

1161
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 2: But it also what you're looking at here, if you're

1162
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 2: talking about on a one to one basis, she is

1163
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 2: upending and destroying people's lives for about the price of

1164
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: a nice used car every year. Like that's that's what's

1165
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 2: actually going on here. So here's what the court case

1166
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,200
Speaker 2: against the Jenkins' lists as the prescription she gave this

1167
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: woman for Alzheimer's treatment. Sa Jenkins prescribed Smith take six

1168
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: teaspoons of coconut oil per day, an all organic, GMO

1169
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 2: free diet and daily exercise. Sa Jenkins advice Smith she

1170
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 2: only had three to five more years left to work

1171
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 2: before the disease would take its toll, and requested that

1172
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 2: Smith and her husband volunteer at the Alzheimer's adult daycare

1173
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 2: so they could see where Smith was heading in the

1174
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 2: near future.

1175
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 3: Horrible do you want to know? When I bet you

1176
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 3: she was doing she was setting the groundwork for the

1177
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 3: fact that because I don't think she was believe this,

1178
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 3: I'm getting the sense that this is all a skin.

1179
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 3: She's not like a true believer and just is deluded

1180
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 3: about her you know abilities. But like what she's probably

1181
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 3: hoping to do is to be like five years down

1182
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 3: the road, be like I guess the treatment's really helping because.

1183
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: Yea, oh man, now that that would be Thankfully she

1184
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,919
Speaker 2: doesn't get to that point, but I honestly a good

1185
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: doctor that would be that would be kind of funny.

1186
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 2: So Oliver Jenkins the actual doctor again, and her husband

1187
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 2: Cherryan's husband never saw Smith, and he never saw most

1188
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: of the people that his wife was diagnosing. Obviously, Smith

1189
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 2: is distraught when she gets this diagnosis, and she also

1190
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: thankfully seeks a second opinion from a real doctor who

1191
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: looks at her and is like, this doesn't look like

1192
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: Alzheimer's to me, but hey, we'll do a pet scan

1193
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: just to make sure, and oh yeah, still know Alzheimer's.

1194
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 2: But because this guy's a real doctor, he's like, you

1195
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 2: know what, you have one positive diagnosis. I showed nothing,

1196
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: but let's bring a third doctor in just to be

1197
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: really sure that you don't have Alzheimer's, right, So he

1198
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: refers her to yet another doctor, who backs up the

1199
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 2: confirmation that she's fucking fine. Right, The Toledo clinic had

1200
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 2: built Medicare four thousand and thirty six dollars for this

1201
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 2: bullshit diagnosis, So Smith is furious, right, But at this

1202
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 2: point she's also like, well, maybe I just ran into

1203
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 2: a bad doctor who like fucked up right, Like, it's

1204
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 2: not clear from one case as the individual. Is this

1205
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: lady just like shitty at her job, or have I

1206
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 2: fallen into some elaborate scheme. So when sherry Ann calls

1207
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 2: her and is like, hey, so when are you coming

1208
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,920
Speaker 2: in for your every rest of your life visits? You know,

1209
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: to get told to take coconut oil. You gotta let

1210
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: me treat you, Smith is like, fuck off, We're not

1211
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 2: going to you anymore. So not a doctor, Jenkins send

1212
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 2: Smith a letter, quote, our physician patient relationship is ineffective

1213
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 2: and I can no longer continue to provide services to

1214
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 2: you as your provider. Therefore, this letter will serve as

1215
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: my notice of my intent to discontinue our physician patient

1216
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 2: relationship and ship. Now this seems to have rubbed that,

1217
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 2: doesn't Is that something you do?

1218
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 3: I've never done that. I've never okay, I mean, I'm

1219
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 3: trying to think if I've ever fired, for lack of

1220
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 3: better word, a patient. And maybe it was like one

1221
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 3: time when I got threatened by somebody who was not

1222
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 3: quite you know. It's a good place. So they and

1223
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 3: that might be the only time, but I didn't like

1224
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 3: them like a letter. I don't. I don't think we

1225
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 3: do that very commonly.

1226
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 2: No, and this isn't even that, because this is the

1227
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: patient says I'm not going to go to you anymore,

1228
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 2: and you send them a letter firing them, which is

1229
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: like a weird and petty.

1230
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like weirdly, it's like battling petty. The response,

1231
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 3: the correct response is I'm sorry. I hope you find

1232
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 3: someone who treats you right. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1233
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 2: So this seems to have rubbed Smith the wrong way

1234
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 2: getting this letter. So she goes to the radiologist at

1235
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 2: the Toledo Clinics, so at the Broader clinic that the

1236
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 2: cognitive clinic that the Jenkins run is at, and she's like, hey, uh,

1237
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,800
Speaker 2: you know that pet scan you did? That seemed I

1238
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: was fine. Well here's what happened afterwards, right, So this

1239
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 2: radiologist tells her, oh, yeah, all of the radiologists at

1240
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 2: the Toledo clinic went to the executive board recently to

1241
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: lodge an official complaint that Jenkins does not know what

1242
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 2: she's doing. Their complaint included the line she has diagnosed

1243
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 2: everyone with Alzheimer's. And then in the court case after

1244
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 2: this is announced, there's an utterly baffling paragraph that I'm

1245
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: hoping you can help me make sense of.

1246
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 5: Kave.

1247
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 2: The radiologist also stated that sa Jenkins had misdiagnosed his

1248
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: own twenty one year old daughter with Alzheimer's disease. He

1249
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 2: further stated that he had destroyed all of the medical

1250
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 2: records pertaining to his daughter and recommended that Smith do

1251
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 2: the same with regard to her records. What's going on there?

1252
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 2: Hold on, Hold on, hold on, I'm confused. So the

1253
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 2: real doctor Jenkins, Yeah, he I read the radiologist.

1254
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:48,240
Speaker 3: He diagnosed a radiologist's daughter.

1255
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, Sherry Anne, the not real doctor, the wife

1256
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,000
Speaker 2: who was not at all any kind of doctor, non

1257
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 2: doctor diagnoses the radiologist's twenty one year old daughter with Alzheimer's.

1258
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 2: And then the radiologist said, I destroyed all of the

1259
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 2: medical records pertaining to my daughter from that case, and

1260
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 2: you should do the same. Why would you do that?

1261
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 3: It does not seem like there's any good reason to

1262
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 3: do that unless he was somehow in on the scam.

1263
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 3: I don't understand that. Why would you You would never

1264
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 3: do First of all, you never destroy medical records. Like

1265
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 3: it's one of those things where like the the lie

1266
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 3: is worse than the actual act. You're not supposed to

1267
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 3: You just can't do that. It's just like, we're not

1268
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 3: supposed to do that. Why would just take his daughter,

1269
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 3: a twenty one year old for why?

1270
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: You know?

1271
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 3: Why would he not look at the images himself? And

1272
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 3: why would he not feel like twenty one is sort

1273
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 3: of I mean, there is early onset Alzheimer's. Yeah, come on,

1274
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 3: twenty one, you're a doctor man, something fishy something clearly

1275
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 3: like something.

1276
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 2: I mean, he is saying that, like he and a

1277
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 2: bunch of others went to the clinic leadership and said,

1278
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 2: this person's a scammer. So it seems like he and

1279
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 2: I kind of I kind of suspect a thing with

1280
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 2: his daughter could be as simple as like maybe there's

1281
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: a work party, right.

1282
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 5: Was he was he using his daughter, who we know,

1283
01:02:09,040 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 5: who he knew was like super healthy, as like a

1284
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 5: test to catch the match.

1285
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 3: Maybe that's it.

1286
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 2: I also think it could be like maybe there's like

1287
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 2: a work party and Jenkins runs into his daughter and

1288
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 2: just like in the process of a conversation diagnosis her

1289
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 2: with all cyber because.

1290
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 3: Slip into my scan over here for a moment. Yeah, yeah, I.

1291
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 4: Don't know whatever it is sketch.

1292
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 2: Again, I know, we have like a bunch of professional

1293
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 2: journalists and TV people. Here's a great this is like

1294
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 2: a solid six episode Netflix documentary, right like you could,

1295
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 2: or at least a good tight ninety minutes right like

1296
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 2: somebody does because I want there's a lot of questions

1297
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 2: I do half about this still unanswered.

1298
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, hire Robert and I just to be the CT test.

1299
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely will choose so much.

1300
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 2: Scenery, absolutely, Yeah, and and bring in Pedro Pascal to

1301
01:02:57,280 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 2: be I don't know, somebody I just want to have.

1302
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:01,439
Speaker 3: Bring him in, bring them in to be the daughter

1303
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:01,919
Speaker 3: and has.

1304
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 2: Ranged Lee Pace can be can be Smith or someone.

1305
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 2: I just want to have one really good lunch out

1306
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 2: of this project.

1307
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 3: People.

1308
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 4: That's the most you thing that has ever been said.

1309
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 2: The lawyer in this case is David zol And as

1310
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 2: part of his claim against her, he noted that at

1311
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 2: least thirty people were misdiagnosed and aware of it, right,

1312
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 2: that like, we have tracked down thirty people who were

1313
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 2: told they had Alzheimer's and didn't, which is you know,

1314
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 2: potentially like six hundred grand a year, right and ongoing

1315
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 2: visits and stuff conservatively. But also he's like, that's just

1316
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 2: who we know, this lady. They were doing this for

1317
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 2: four years. There's an unknown number of people that may

1318
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 2: have been diagnosed by her, right, A lot of these

1319
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 2: people are old. There's a good chance a non trivial

1320
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 2: number of people died thinking they had Alzheimer's, you know.

1321
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 2: But we're just like they were like eighty when they

1322
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,000
Speaker 2: came in, right, so they didn't have a lot longer

1323
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 2: unraveling who was told, what has proved to be a

1324
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 2: difficult process, and Zol claims there's and again that's the

1325
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 2: lawyer claims, there's also evidence that Sherry Anne overbuild patients

1326
01:03:59,480 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 2: for the fame care she was giving them in addition

1327
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 2: to faking their care. His take was that she's simply greedy.

1328
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 3: Right.

1329
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,360
Speaker 2: Their cognitive center grew a lot faster than anyone expected,

1330
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,000
Speaker 2: and it made a lot of money for the larger

1331
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,600
Speaker 2: Toledo clinic. And I think to the extent that there's

1332
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 2: maybe some weird, shady stuff going on, right that's sort

1333
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 2: of insinuated in that paragraph. Maybe the radiologists weren't able

1334
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,040
Speaker 2: to get anything done to get her fired because clinic

1335
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 2: leadership was like, well, we don't really give a shit

1336
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 2: money's coming. I don't actually know. What really sticks with

1337
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 2: me is how predatory the process was. Sherry Anne and

1338
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 2: her husband were not just giving fake diagnoses to scam medicare,

1339
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 2: they were outright like hunting people. Zol claims, quote, many

1340
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 2: times she would see the first person and have them

1341
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 2: bring in their whole family, Soul said, And many times

1342
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 2: she would diagnose the whole family. Right, because Alzheimer's can

1343
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,520
Speaker 2: be can't have a genetic component, at least I don't

1344
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 2: know that it always does. But there are people for

1345
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: whom it runs in the family. So she's like, your

1346
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 2: whole family needs to get tested. And then boom boom,

1347
01:04:57,480 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 2: boom boom, everybody's got Alzheimer's.

1348
01:04:59,760 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 4: You know.

1349
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 3: Well, she's like doing the Oprah free car thing. But

1350
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 3: when you look at Alzheimer's, yeah you do have Alzheimer's. Yeah,

1351
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 3: you know.

1352
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: And unfortunately this process is not just reckless and cruel,

1353
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 2: it's deadly. And I'm going to quote now from reporting

1354
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 2: in the Chicago Tribune. Kay Tayner was diagnosed with Alzheimer's

1355
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 2: on her second visit to Jenkins, and then referred five

1356
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,120
Speaker 2: or six friends and family members to her office, including

1357
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 2: her husband of forty eight years. All were told they

1358
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,000
Speaker 2: had the disease, she said, but her husband, Gary took

1359
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 2: it hardest. He's got a smile that just lights up

1360
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:33,560
Speaker 2: the room. And I never saw it again, she said.

1361
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 2: He just sunk in his chair. To me, he never

1362
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 2: stood up again. He was never tall again.

1363
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 3: He gave up.

1364
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,120
Speaker 2: Gary fell into depression, spending his final week sitting in

1365
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 2: a chair with his hands in his lap, until he

1366
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 2: went into their garage and shot himself in the head.

1367
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 2: She said an autopsy did not show any signs of Alzheimer's.

1368
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 3: This monster, I mean early Alzheimer's. Again, I'm not a neurologist,

1369
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 3: but my general understanding is that it's I think under

1370
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 3: the age of like sixty five, and there is like

1371
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 3: a familial onset Alzheimer's, but it is really rare, and

1372
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 3: it's it's like probably less than like one percent of

1373
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 3: the total cases that you're gonna see. And like for

1374
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 3: her to take advantage of this and give these people

1375
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 3: these crushing diagnoses because you know, things have gotten a

1376
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 3: little bit better and we do have new medicines kind

1377
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 3: of coming down like the pipeline, but it's still a

1378
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 3: really bad thing to get, especially at an earlier ages.

1379
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 3: It's so it's so cynical, so callous that they would

1380
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 3: do it to make I mean, I don't know, I know,

1381
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 3: this is so stupid, and I'm like on the wrong

1382
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 3: show to ask this, But how do people live themselves

1383
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 3: when they do something like that? Like I don't understand,

1384
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 3: like the how that how in her mind she's probably

1385
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 3: the victim, that she's the hero of her own story. Yeah, say,

1386
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,640
Speaker 3: everyone is, but how is she spinning this. That's the

1387
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 3: part I don't understand.

1388
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 5: You know.

1389
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 2: Part of me is like, maybe it was a long

1390
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 2: con and she's like, it won't really hurt them all,

1391
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 2: tell them they're cured, and then I'll start selling fucking

1392
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 2: olive or not all of a coconut oil supplements. I

1393
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,920
Speaker 2: don't know, but maybe it is just like I don't

1394
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: care about people and I want money, you know, that

1395
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 2: is sometimes the answer. Maybe she was deluded, right, maybe

1396
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 2: there's some sort of mental illness she's got going on,

1397
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 2: But honestly, I feel like that's probably less likely than

1398
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 2: just like this person was a monster.

1399
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1400
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I mean, you know, at this point,

1401
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: I don't know that. Well, maybe if somebody does a

1402
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 2: deeper reporting on it will get you know, I did

1403
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 2: everything I could. I read like the court cases and stuff,

1404
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 2: but this is a doctor death like podcast.

1405
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone's got to turn this into that.

1406
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, please do folks. I want to know more

1407
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,320
Speaker 2: about this. So the lawsuits against the Jenkins is inspired

1408
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 2: an investigation by the FBI, right, and once they start

1409
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 2: snooping around, it's over pretty soon for Oliver and Sherry.

1410
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 2: And these people are not criminal masterminds. They have not

1411
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 2: hidden their tracks very well. The Feds pressed charges. As

1412
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 2: all these civil cases is wined through the court system,

1413
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 2: and the Jenkinses are indicted by a grand jury, more

1414
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 2: than sixty patients and family members who had been inaccurately

1415
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 2: diagnosed would ultimately come forward. USA Today notes that in

1416
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 2: addition to Gary's suicide, one patient took a six month

1417
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 2: leave of absence from work and lost her job. Another

1418
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 2: retired early and lost his retirement benefits. One man sold

1419
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 2: his house so that he could move to be next

1420
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:26,280
Speaker 2: to his children. Another client was placed in a nursing home.

1421
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 2: The good news is that both Jenkins's were found guilty

1422
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:34,719
Speaker 2: of conspiracy, mail fraud, wire fraud, and healthcare fraud. Sherry

1423
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 2: was fined twenty five thousand dollars. Oliver was fined twenty

1424
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars. Both were sentenced to time in prison,

1425
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 2: seventy one months for Sherry and forty one months for Oliver,

1426
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 2: which is, you know, I don't know what the right

1427
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:50,440
Speaker 2: sentence is, but those are both real sentences.

1428
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:54,520
Speaker 3: You know, I'm sorry you probably lost his license. Oh god, yeah,

1429
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 3: So right now, that's a good long term solution for that.

1430
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 2: I assume that the civil cases are going to take

1431
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,600
Speaker 2: a lot of money out of these people's hides, right, yeah, yeah,

1432
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 2: And that's all a huge bummer, right, much more of

1433
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 2: a bummer than Malachai's story, which is like kind of

1434
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 2: sad that he's ruined his life a little, but like

1435
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,280
Speaker 2: more mostly just like wow, what a shit ad, Right,

1436
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:20,759
Speaker 2: this is really fucking sad, but it also you know, again,

1437
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 2: I want to note, because we're going to come to

1438
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 2: this in Part two, these stories are not isolated incidences.

1439
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 2: They are all, in fact tied together in a certain way,

1440
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:35,280
Speaker 2: and specifically, they are tied together to a series of

1441
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 2: things that explains why your healthcare is so expensive, why

1442
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 2: it is so hard to get seen, and why it

1443
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 2: is hard to find in network care when you needed.

1444
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 2: All of this relates to why the Jenkinses were allowed

1445
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:47,680
Speaker 2: to do what they did, and that's what we're going

1446
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 2: to talk about in part dou But first, cave, Yeah,

1447
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:56,640
Speaker 2: you speak French, and Pierre, I'm going to take that

1448
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 2: as a yes, what do you do?

1449
01:09:58,840 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 3: You?

1450
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 2: Where do you go? Who are you?

1451
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 3: What do you do? Just see the San Francisco That

1452
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:10,200
Speaker 3: means I'm from San Francisco. It's just sweet, doctor m

1453
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:12,679
Speaker 3: podcaster I am. That's French for I am a doctor

1454
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,639
Speaker 3: and a podcaster, and that's the extent of my French.

1455
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:18,720
Speaker 3: I have a podcast called The House of Pod. You

1456
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 3: can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can

1457
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 3: follow me, uh if you like on Twitter at the

1458
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 3: House of Pod. I just started making tiktoks because I'm

1459
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 3: a complete sellout bitch. Okay, I'm crazy, you know. And

1460
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:36,719
Speaker 3: I do a little bit of medical stuff there, talking

1461
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,640
Speaker 3: about like medical topics that people are interested in. And

1462
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 3: the show is fun if you like sort of delving

1463
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 3: into bastards of medicine. We do a little bit of that,

1464
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:48,000
Speaker 3: but we also talk some of the good stuff about medicine.

1465
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 3: We talked about what's new and hot, and we'll have

1466
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 3: fun guests like I have an upcoming show with the

1467
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 3: guy from EVE six and doctor Peter Hotez to talk

1468
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 3: about COVID, so that that'll be fun.

1469
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:03,719
Speaker 2: So the guy for me EVE six is my primary

1470
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 2: care physician.

1471
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 3: He's pretty savvy, so I wouldn't put it past him.

1472
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,080
Speaker 3: He's pretty cool, but so and of course Robert's been

1473
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 3: on the show, so yeah, listen to it. I think

1474
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 3: feel like it anywhere you do your.

1475
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,639
Speaker 2: Podcast out, check it out. And you know interesting fact, covet.

1476
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 2: The French language actually has more than thirty different words

1477
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 2: for podcaster that.

1478
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 3: Makes sense, and they all are something to do with

1479
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 3: like lippitit mill I.

1480
01:11:29,120 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 2: Think, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's one of them.

1481
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 3: Anyway, everybody go to Hell.

1482
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 2: I Love you.

1483
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 5: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1484
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 5: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1485
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 5: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1486
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 5: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast