WEBVTT - The Burden 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.040 This is Latino USA, the radio journal of News and 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.520 Curture Latino USC latin Latino USA. 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:08.920 I'm Maria Inojosa. 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.800 We bring you stories that are underreported but that mattered to. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:14.800 You, overlooked by the rest of the media. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:16.760 And while the country is struggling to deal with these, 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.000 we listen to the stories of Black and Latino Studios United, 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:24.919 Latino Front, a cultural renaissance organizing at the forefront of 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:25.520 the movement. 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:33.839 I'm Maria Inojosa, nose Bayan. Hey Latino USA, listener, gomoistas. 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.519 We have a treat for you today, especially if you're 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.360 a fan of true crime. Our colleagues over at Orbit 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.400 Media just released a news series. It's called The Burden, 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.600 and it tells the story of NYPD detective Lewis N. Scarcella, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:53.120 who was legendary for cracking the toughest cases and putting 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.680 away the worst criminals back in the nineteen nineties, so 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:01.360 much so that this guy had a nickname the But 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:08.520 underneath Scarcella's success, something obscure apparently lurked, something a group 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.959 of convicted murderers turned jailhouse lawyers would uncover with the 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:17.680 help of a relentless new York Times reporter. On episode 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.040 one of The Burden, we meet that journalist, her name 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:25.360 is Francis or Frenchie Droblis, who acts on a tip 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.399 about this group of men in jail who happened to 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.240 share something. They were all arrested by the same detective. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:37.000 His name Scarcella. But is this a story about a 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.800 police officer turned into a hero or a villain? No, 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:44.679 of course not, and that's what hosts Steve Fishman and 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:48.720 Dax Devlon Ross are going to dive into. Here's episode 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:50.280 one of the Burden. 0:01:50.760 --> 0:02:08.840 Enjoy the show, Dax, this is the first story I 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.200 ever heard Louis Scarcella tell. 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.520 The legendary New York detective tell me more so. 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.120 Detective Scarcella is with his partner. They're testifying in court 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:25.320 one day. It's lunchtime. The court breaks and Detective Scarcella 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:29.200 and his partner decide that this is the moment to 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:36.160 track down a murder suspect. We park right here, right here. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.920 There was an Italian guy right here smoking a shrew, 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.520 I said Ben Bennygoy, and I showed him the picture. 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.799 He looked at the picture, he backed up and he. 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:51.080 Points to the White House. Lo and beholds of me. 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.040 Six foot three hundred pounds. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:54.760 Comes out of the house. 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:59.320 I said, that's him. I said, I'm going to run 0:02:59.440 --> 0:02:59.920 him down. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:06.040 I gunned the car stch jump out. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:07.520 I run over him. 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:08.880 I put the gun on him. 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.640 He's got a sig sour in his waistband, all big 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.120 sig sur I jump on him. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:16.960 He's going for the gun. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.600 I put my glock to his head and pulled the trigger. 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:22.600 But the gun's no good. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:23.680 My gun's no good. 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.360 I kilt him my pawn to shoot him. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:29.200 He's bucking me. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.359 He's bucking me like a bronco. 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.000 I grab him and I knock into the ground. 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:40.920 Do you ever imagine that clock goes off? 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.640 I mean I intended it to. I intended it to. 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:46.600 What do you want me to do? 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:48.480 He's got a six hour going for a six I 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:48.720 want am? 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:56.240 I supposed to kiss him. Welcome to Louise Brooklyn, where 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:59.640 bad guys were around every corner and it was up 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:02.600 to the hective Scarcella to protect the people. 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:09.840 They needed me, and I loved doing it. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.520 Louis heyday was the eighties and nineties, and back then 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:17.800 all New Yorkers, even the most liberal calumnists, wanted law 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:18.840 and order. 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.239 When you have babies being shot in their grandmother's arms, 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.040 people's throats being slit for a. 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.200 Five dollars vial of crack, I don't care where those 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:30.880 prisons are and when I'm sent there for long terms. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.720 Louis Garcela had movie star good looks, smoked a cigar everywhere, 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.599 and he was tough. He seemed like he was the 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:41.000 kind of tough cop the city needed. 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:47.200 He was everybody's idea of the prince of the city. 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.920 He was the guy who solved the hardest cases and 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:56.360 made sure the worst killers were brought to justice. 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.320 Louis Garcella was known as the closes, the one who 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:06.120 got the confession, and with that came fame. He was 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.000 on the Doctor Phil's show, No One Knows the Art 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.680 of getting confessions better than twenty nine year better in 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.880 New York City homicide detectives, and. 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:16.520 He earned the respect of his peers. 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.560 Louise, my god, he's my man, you know, he's my friend, 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.640 the hell of a cop, the rat detective. 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.640 God forbid something happened to me or my family. 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.880 I would want Louis Scarcella to do the investigation. A 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:34.200 collot of trust in him. 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:36.240 He looks like shit. Now we'll go all this shit. 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.719 Steve the poor the poor guy that beat the balls 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:44.320 off him, like, you know that's right. Years later, the 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:49.640 Louis Scarcella story changed. The once decorated detective now stands 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:54.520 accused of coaching witnesses, coercing confessions, and trading drugs for testimony. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.920 Garsola cracked numerous murder cases in the eighties and nineties, 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:59.440 but his techniques had been questioned. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.080 A group of invicted murder says it all comes back 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:05.080 to one rogue official and they want their names clear. 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:13.760 Oh yeah, I'm the devil in disgraced devil. Yeah yeah, Well, 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:15.280 what can I tell you? 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.760 I'm Steve Fishman. I've lived in New York a long time. 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.160 I've been writing about crime for a long time. As 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:28.760 a journalist, I've interviewed cops, prosecutors, criminals, son of Sam 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.960 Bernie Madoff. They opened up to me. I felt I 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.200 knew a lot about the criminal justice system. So when 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:40.960 I heard these headlines about Scarcela, my thought, this cannot 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.560 be the whole story. Was this really about one rogue 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.719 cop who what hoodwinked an entire system? 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:54.279 And I'm dak Stevlin Ross, journalist, author, lawyer. I've written 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.880 about criminal justice for years. I know what it's like 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:02.000 to be wrongfully arrested personally, and I'm interested in the 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.200 people who went to jail and maybe shouldn't have. 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:10.320 We're gonna go deep. Is Louis a hero, cop, a scapegoat, 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:13.240 or a super villain who helped put away more than 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:17.680 twenty innocent men, men who now want revenge. 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.200 I don't know, man, Maybe they want vindication. 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.160 You know that's what Louis Scarcella feels he deserves too. 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:28.760 I'll tell you what though, Well, you need to know 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.640 the truth, both about Louis Scarcela and the band of 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.960 convicted murders who took him on, and about the city. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:50.000 We live in stonecloud of comments commonstrate to you. 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:53.120 Can't run for shelter. 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:55.680 There's nothing you can't. 0:07:55.480 --> 0:08:11.080 Do from orbit me. This is the burden today on 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:20.560 the show the Scoop, you gotta hold all time? 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.280 All right, Steve, where do we begin? 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.160 We begin with the person who broke the Louis Scarcella 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:53.680 story long before you or I got involved. That's Francis Robless, 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.640 known to her New York Times colleagues as Frenchie. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.280 The Porto Rican grow known as Frenchie. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.560 I do not speak for Frenchie's from Queens, from an 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.880 Italian neighborhood called Howard Beach. 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:10.480 Howard Beach was a astoundingly racist place. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.199 And growing up there, it taught Frenchie to be fierce. 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.240 My best friend in elementary school was Perto Rican, and 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.400 so this one kid was like, hey, pldorica Isy switch 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.480 Lane and my girlfriend Jenevieve and I we went to 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:25.520 his house. 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:27.880 In sixth grade. 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.360 We rang the doorbell and his mother answered the door 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.000 and she was pregnant or belly outza wherever is Anthony home? 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:38.760 And she's like ane. So he comes and he's you know, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.240 you can see he's kind of looking at us rather suspiciously, 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:42.640 like one of the two Puerto Rican girls that I 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.280 believe in school doing at my door. And we beat 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:46.520 the crap out of him right there in front of 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:46.880 his mother. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.640 This was the nineteen eighties and Frenchie was in high school, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:10:00.400 living in a dangerous neighborhood in a dangerous city. One night, 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.160 her mother was a victim. Her mother was carjacked, a 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.960 gun was put to her head right in front of 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.040 their house, and then her mother was summoned to the 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:14.480 police station to identify the carjacker in the lineup, the 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:17.319 man who'd been arrested in the stolen vehicle. 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.080 And the detective puts his right hand on his left 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:25.400 arm and he makes like a figure of the number two, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.440 you know, holding up two fingers, and he looks at 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.120 my mother, telling her. 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:31.480 To choose number two. 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.400 So my mother goes in there. She looks at the guys. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:36.440 She has no idea who it is. She doesn't remember. 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.800 It was dark, you know, she had a gun in 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:44.800 her face, So she picked number two. I remember thinking. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.560 Well, screw him. You know, he was driving a stolen car. 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:52.560 He's at the very least was involved in car theft. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:55.640 Guilty enough for her. 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.440 Yeah, back then, it didn't matter to Frenchie if this 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:04.320 guy did this crime. But later French she became a reporter, 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.600 first at the Miami Herald and then at the New 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.679 York Times, and their views evolved. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.640 You know, maybe my mother helped send the innocent person 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:20.080 to prison. He got seven years. Everybody was in on it. 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.319 Everybody it was in on the game. The cops were 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.800 in on it, the witnesses were in on it, and 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.760 the prosecutor probably knew that my mother didn't know who 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.360 he was and was like whatever she said, Number. 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:32.160 Two, number two. 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.360 Fast forward to twenty thirteen and Frenchy is at the 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.280 New York Times. She's itching for a good story, a 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.480 big story, something that will make a splash. One day, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.040 she's on a routine assignment when she meets someone interesting. 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.680 Was a guy named Derek Hamilton, who was an ex 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.720 Cohn who had been kind of like a jail house lawyer. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:58.400 You meet her and Hispanic woman, beautiful, long hair, you know, 0:11:58.640 --> 0:11:59.160 made up. 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.880 And this is Derek remembering meeting Frenchie for the first time. 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:07.440 He's a bigger guy, broadcast, about six foot two. He's 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.000 got a single gold tooth in the front and a 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.320 shaved head, big presence. 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.240 I've been in Queens Boulevard, Course Street from the courthouse. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:20.400 There was some restaurant there and we had dinner at twelve. 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.720 And so we're just chatting and he says, oh, you know, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:26.880 I see that you're kind of interested in this issue 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.720 of you know, the Brooklyn Dida's office having screwed somebody over. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.840 I know a lot of cases in Brooklyn of wrongful convictions. 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:35.600 Okay, really okay, good. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:37.320 You know, I was kind of in the New York 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.800 office sharpening pencils, so that seemed like a good idea 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:40.080 to me. 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:41.520 And to follow up on that tip. 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.920 So Frenchie brings it to her editor and I'm like, oh, 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:45.600 I have a tip. 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.760 You know, there's a lot of wrongfully convicted guys in Brooklyn, 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:49.800 and I have a good source. 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:51.000 He was a jail house lawyer. 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:56.199 And so my editor says to me, well, what else 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.760 do the cases have in common? Like what connects them? 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:04.360 I was so offended by that question. I was like, well, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:06.160 I don't know, maybe they didn't do it like that 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.960 connects them. You know, maybe they're all black, you know, 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.199 and the railroaded. 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.199 By the criminal justice system. 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:14.439 Like I just thought it was such a hoity toity 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.280 New York Times view of journalism that I couldn't just 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.199 come up with the wrongful conviction. I had to come 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:22.920 up with what connects them? 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.760 So I nod politely, you know, yes, ma'am. 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.439 And I'm like I go back to my desk, kind 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.280 of grumbling under my breath, and I called Derek and 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:38.880 I'm like, all right, well, this editor of mine wants 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:46.000 to know what connects these cases, and he goes, well, 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:50.320 a lot of them are the same cop and his 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.439 name is Luis Garsov. 0:13:53.960 --> 0:14:12.840 This smoke behind the story that's after the break Welcome back. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.520 Derek Hamilton was out of prison but still connected to 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.240 people on the inside. He's a self taught lawyer, learned 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.000 the law behind bars, and he was still in the 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:23.880 prison grape vine. 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:28.160 So I meet with Derek again. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.120 And Derek, you know, he was interesting because he knew 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.040 some things, but he did not know a lot of things. 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:38.800 He told me kind of loosey goosey stuff like he said, 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.120 oh that this guy was notorious for using the same 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.360 witness over and over again, but he didn't know the 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.720 names of the defendants who had had the same witness 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:49.800 testify against them. 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:51.800 And he did not know the name of the witness. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.240 So I was like, oh, brother, you know, here I 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.400 am talking this up to my editor like I'm some 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.600 hotshot who's going to crack this cane. And I got nothing, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.200 And I thought, oh my god, you know what am 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:04.560 I going to do? 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:04.800 Now? 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.280 You know, I don't have anywhere to turn. 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.800 So she went back to Derek. She needed the name 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.720 of that very talented witness, and that's when Derek gives 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.440 her a legal document. This was a document written by 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.480 one of his friends still in jail, another jailhouse lawyer. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.840 It's called a four forty motion, and it's what you 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:28.200 file if you're trying to get your conviction overturned. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.960 So he gives me Shabacca chaqurs for forty. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:41.200 I probably rewrote that one hundred times because I wanted 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.280 to make sure that I was saying what I wanted 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:44.760 to say. 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.040 This is Shabacca Shakur. Scarcella helped convict Shabacca of a 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.280 double murder, which he says he didn't do. His four 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.840 forty was impressive, sixty pages of legal argument written while 0:15:56.880 --> 0:15:59.480 he was part of a prison law firm. That's right, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.920 a law firm formed in prison and run by convicted murderers, 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:09.640 all of whom claimed innocence. More on that later. Schbacca 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:13.800 and Derek got close in prison. Now Derek urges Shabaka 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:14.880 to talk to Frenchy. 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:16.360 So I called her. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.800 She was like, okay, you said, scar Seller is a 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.880 crooked cop. I read your brief. I said, listen. I 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.080 gave a list of names, a list of you know, 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:31.040 people she could talk to. Information that would substantiate that 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.520 he was a crooked cop. And I remember telling her, 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:38.240 like you an investigative reporter, go and investigate. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:44.520 In that dense document, two pages focused on Louis Garcella. 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:49.640 He says in this document, it says something something. Lewis 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:54.720 Garcella was notorious in Brooklyn for his you know, unethical 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:55.800 and you. 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:57.720 Know, framing people basically. 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.360 In fact, he was known to use the same witness 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.880 over and over again, a woman named Teresa Gomes. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.000 And I'm like, you know, that's it. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:08.480 That's the name. 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:09.840 That's what I've been waiting for. 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:11.639 I'm already to find out the name of the of 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:12.560 the of the witness. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.080 So Frenchie has the name. Now she does what a 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.040 lot of us do when we're hunting for information. She googles. 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:29.280 That's my big investigative reporting secret. So I google Lewis 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:34.800 Garsella and Teresa Gomes together. You know, I don't know 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:38.159 what I thought I was going to find. And I 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.959 got a hit, and I'm like, well, this is curious. 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:46.080 It was like some random Google forum, a cigar smoker 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.919 forum where somebody has asked I think the question on 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.520 the forum was when did you first smoke your first 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:54.119 great cigar. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:58.280 Okay, so a cigar smoker's form not exactly where I'd 0:17:58.280 --> 0:17:59.640 expect to find a lead about a. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:05.080 Crooked exactly, but what she comes across there turns out 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.000 to be crucial to her understanding of the entire story. 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:14.639 This guy a man answers. The first cigar which truly 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.800 made me realize how much I was going to enjoy cigars, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.159 was smoked in nineteen eighty eight at a bar on 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.240 Remsen Street in Brooklyn, New York called Callahan's. The cigar 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.000 was given to me by a legendary detective of the 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:32.199 Brooklyn North Homicide Squad named Louis Scarcela. Lewis had been 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:35.400 the detective on the first two murder cases I prosecuted, 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.720 both of which featured the same witness testifying against the 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:43.520 same defendant for two different murders. The defendant was a 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.360 dealer named Robert Hill. The witness was named Teresa Gomez, 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.560 a woman who was even then ravaged from head to 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.800 toe by the scourge of crack cocaine. It was near 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:59.560 falling to even think that anyone would believe Gomez about anything, 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.600 let alone the fact that she witnessed the same guy 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:07.640 kill two different people, and the guy signs it it's 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:12.560 the district attorney, and he's now at charge. 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.280 Here's what I'm wondering, what the fuck the assistant district attorney, 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.840 he's not the district attorney, Just to be clear about that, 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.080 is basically saying that no one should have believed his witness, 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.240 the one he put on the stand, who happens to 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.760 be the lone eye witnessed in two alleged murders by 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.399 Robert Hill on two different occasions. 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.960 My head mark is probably still on the roof of 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:40.359 the New York Times office from my jumping up and 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.200 down and realizing that I had hit badr. 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.119 So Frenchie was excited by her discovery. I want to 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.320 point out, though, that what the prosecutor is saying is 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:53.520 that he'd be stunned if a jury believed Teresa Gomez. 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:56.200 What he's not saying is that she's lying. 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.679 So Frenchie now has the name of this troubled and 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.280 doupling witness, and now she's also got the name of 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:08.719 the person Teresa help convictive murder want Robert Hill, former 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.520 drug dealer. So Steve, where does she go from here? 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:25.320 She goes to prison unannounced to find Robert Hill. Frenchie 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.400 is waiting in the visitors room for Robert Hill. He's 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.920 serving eighteen years to life. He's not expecting her. 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:34.760 So this guy comes in and he walks with a 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.160 cane and he's kind of hunched over and he has. 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:40.960 Very very long dreadlocks all down his back. 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:47.520 And I see him looking around the room like, you 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.040 know oo, So I don't see anybody here who's here 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.119 to see me, And so I raised my hands and 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.480 he looks at me like, you know, who. 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:56.159 The heck is that, you know? 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.119 But all right, fine, you know, he doesn't have anything 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:02.719 better to do. So he sits down and I'll probably 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:04.360 never forget this moment for the rest of my life. 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.119 I said to him. You know, my name is Francis Rolez. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.840 I'm a reporter for the New York Times. I'm doing 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:16.680 a story on Teresa Gomez. And he just froze and 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:21.440 his eyes welled up with tears, and he said, I've 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.359 been telling people about Teresa Gomez for twenty five years. 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:29.119 And I said, well, now somebody's listening. 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.480 But for Robert Hill, talking about Teresa Gomez is not 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.080 an easy decision. He's about to come up for parole. 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.520 And one of the things that's drilled into somebody applying 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:47.720 for parole is you got to go in, take responsibility, 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:52.959 show remorse, you got to ask forgiveness. Now that's going 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.399 to be hard to do if you're also telling a 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.480 New York Times reporter, hey, I didn't do it. 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.600 And he said to me, is this going to mess 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:06.240 up my parole? And I remember I said something that 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.560 you know, ethically I should not have said, and I 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.280 probably shouldn't even repeat that I said, but I said it. 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:17.200 I said, this isn't going to mess up your parole. 0:22:17.960 --> 0:22:21.560 I said this is going to get you exonerated. And 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:26.400 I said something so ridiculous because I believed it. 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.640 That's our frenchie. She'll save your life at your peril. 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:37.160 And Robert Hill, let's face it, he needs his life saved, 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:42.639 so maybe it's worth the risk. Hill starts talking and 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:48.120 he tells frenchie Teresa Gomez is a liar. Frenchie goes 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.920 on her way, and soon she's working on a front 0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:54.440 page story for the Times, one that she hopes will 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:56.919 make a splash. 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.680 Standard journalism practice is to get a comment from everyone 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:04.240 mentioned in a story, especially a high stake story. Like 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:07.640 this one. She calls the District Attorney's office. 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:12.159 It's like six o'clock that Thursday, and I call the 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:15.520 spokesman and I said, I got a two thousand and 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:20.560 five hundred word article about all these guys, you know, 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.239 say that they were wrongly accused, and you know what 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:25.879 it doesn't have It doesn't have a quote from the 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:29.320 Brooklyn District Attorney's office. Because your quote was so pathetic. 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.200 I said, so we're going to do a doue over 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:36.760 and it's the one question, do over do you stand 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:39.679 behind these convictions or not? 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:42.800 That's it. 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:44.879 We're not going to negotiate a response. 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.200 We're not going to be like, oh if the record 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:50.720 background upside down inside out, what's your answer? And so 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:53.280 the spokesman said, oh, quite back, Okay, call me back, 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:55.760 say call back, and he said, well, you have to 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:56.200 come back. 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:57.560 To the office tomorrow. 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:01.240 I'm crying out loud. I go to the Brooklyn District 0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:03.760 Attorney's office, sit down, like, all right, what is it. 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:08.600 We're reopening all of Scarcella's cases. 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:11.919 And I'm like, oh my god. 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:19.880 So I go back to the office and I find 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:22.119 the editor, the same person that had originally asked me 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:23.200 what connects these cases? 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:25.320 And I said, you're not going to believe this. 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:28.159 The DA is reopening all of his cases. 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:30.000 They're going to go back thirty years. 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.000