1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 2: Chris Alexander with Us. A Canadian author. His book is 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: called Art Trash Terror Adventures in Strange Cinema. He's an editor, 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 2: he's a teacher. He is a composer and producer of 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: the electronic music concept albums Music for Murder, Blue Eyes 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 2: of the Broken Doll, Body Double and dracul On. Chris, 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: welcome back. You are on with my buddy Rich Murr 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: about a year ago. 10 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 3: Hi, George, I've been on several times and every time 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 3: I come back it's well, it's like coming home, George. 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 3: So I appreciate you having me on and these we well, 13 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 3: I'm in Toronto, so the wee small hours of the morning, 14 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 3: it's my pleasure to be here. 15 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 4: So thank you. 16 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: We love you, buddy. How'd you get involved in cinema 17 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 2: like this, Well, it's. 18 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 3: You know, it's from a young age. Your perspective on 19 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 3: the ride depends on when you get on the train. 20 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 3: And I was three years old and I discovered the 21 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 3: band Kiss in the library and Gene Simmons was my 22 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: first vampire, I think, and it's true he had a 23 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 3: couple of love gun was misplaced in the library and 24 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 3: it was in the children's section. And then that cover 25 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 3: of Genus has his head tilted back and he's got 26 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: fangs and there's emaciated vampire women swooning at his feet. 27 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 4: So I had a double awakening. On that day. 28 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: My grandmother took me to a wax museum in Niagara 29 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 3: Falls called the House of Frankenstein, which melted my mind. 30 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 3: And then I saw finally nineteen seventy eight's Invasion of 31 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: the Body Snatchers the Philip Coffman remake on television one night, 32 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 3: and that was it. 33 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 4: There was no turning back. George. 34 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: I made it my life's work to see all I 35 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 3: could see, learn all I could learn. And now I'm 36 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 3: over the half century mark, and I don't think I'm 37 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 3: going to change. So this is probably me until the 38 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 3: last breath is taken. 39 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 4: I eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff. George. 40 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: What do you think, Chris, of the old classics, the 41 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: old black and white ones and things like that, were 42 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: they well, I mean better done. 43 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 3: You know it's not better done necessarily, but you know, 44 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: tip of the hat to the people that got there first, 45 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 3: to the founding fathers, the architects of the genre. 46 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 4: You know. 47 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: His film started as you know, many people don't even know, 48 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 3: but the whole dawn of cinema started on murder, bloody horror. Actually, 49 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 3: a British photographer named Edward Moybridge was working for a 50 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: guy named Leland Stanford, you know, the former governor of California, 51 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 3: and he wanted to prove a point by proving to 52 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: his cronies that his horse when it jumped, when it 53 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 3: ran down the racetrack and jumped, all four legs lifted 54 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 3: off the ground. So we hired this British photographer to 55 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 3: do this photographic experiment to prove this. And at the 56 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 3: same time, this British photographer, Moybridge, had found out his 57 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 3: wife was having an affair and he knocked on the 58 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: guy's door one day and blew his head off and 59 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 3: was put. 60 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 4: In the slammer. 61 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 3: While Stanford didn't like this, and he ended up bailing 62 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: him out and funneling all his funds to Britain to 63 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 3: basically buy him out of jail, bring him to California 64 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: and do this stunt. And he proved that all four 65 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 3: legs left the ground, So that photographic experiment was the 66 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 3: blueprint for film and everything kind of steamrolled from there. 67 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 4: But when it comes to horror, I mean, we're. 68 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: Talking about those early days of German expressionism in the 69 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 3: twenties with movies like The Cabinet of Doctor Caligari or FW. 70 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 3: Murnau's Nosferatu Symphony of Fear. Moving all the way back 71 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: to America with the you know, the first horror film 72 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 3: star Lon Cheney, who was a you know, contortionist, whould 73 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 3: do things with his face and his body and was 74 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: manipulating special effects makeup before anyone even knew what that was. 75 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,399 Speaker 3: Through the nineteen thirties with Universal Pictures and their pioneering 76 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 3: horror films, first adaptation, first American adaptation of Bram Stoker's 77 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: Dracula in nineteen thirty one with by La Lagosi, of course, 78 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 3: and Boris Karloff donning Jack Pierce's makeup in the same 79 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 3: year in nineteen thirty one as Frankenstein. So these are 80 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 3: the foundations of the genre, and still the beauty of 81 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 3: these pictures are they still work today. 82 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 4: In a weird, strange way. 83 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 3: It's all come full circle, and now these movies that 84 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 3: maybe at one point what seemed antiquated now have this 85 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: kind of otherworldly, nightmarish quality that if you elect them 86 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 3: do their business on you, they still have the power 87 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 3: to scare. 88 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: I've me in Saint Louis right now, Chris, where Vincent Price, 89 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 2: the great actor was born, you know, back in nineteen eleven, 90 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: and he had some really scary horror genre films. 91 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, Price, I always see listen. 92 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 3: I think that if you look at the great genre films, 93 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 3: they always seem to attract actors who are on the 94 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 3: decline and young actors who are on the rise, and 95 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 3: they sort of meet in the middle. And this splattery 96 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: Avatar motion picture and Vincent Price. You know, by the 97 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: time early nineteen fifties, he was sort of passe. He 98 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 3: was a character actor. He hadn't done much horror. He'd 99 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 3: been around for a long time. He was an auto 100 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: Premeger's Laura, you know, kind of dipped his toe in 101 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 3: horror with the sequel. 102 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 4: To The Invisible Man, The Invisible Man Returns. 103 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 3: But that's not really a horror picture, but it was 104 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty three, the first three D motion picture 105 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 3: three D feature film studio Film House of Wax. 106 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 4: That sort of reintroduced Vincent as a. 107 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 3: Genre film star, and he owned the nineteen fifties, you know. 108 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 3: He moved on from House of Wacks to pictures like 109 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 3: The Fly, and then working with William Castle in crazy 110 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 3: pictures like The House on Haunted Hill and The Tingler, 111 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 3: and then Roger Corman, the great, late great, my good friend. 112 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: I wrote a book with him before he passed away 113 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: a couple of years ago. Roger Corman brought him on 114 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: board The Star and his ed Growland Poe pictures throughout. 115 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 4: The nineteen sixties like The House of Usher and The 116 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 4: Pit and The Pendulum. 117 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 3: So it was those movies that put Vincent on the 118 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: map as a horror film star. And at that point 119 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: Vincent had nothing left to prove, and he would choose 120 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 3: scenery with the best of them and almost deliver these 121 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 3: high opera performances in these pictures. And it's because of 122 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 3: those movies that we think of Vincent as the great 123 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: horror star that he was. He leaned into it, but 124 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 3: his real passions were, George, I'm sure you knew, were 125 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 3: art collecting and cooking, and he took a lot of 126 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 3: these pictures all around the world, just to fund his 127 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 3: passion for these two you know, art forms. 128 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: He once said Chris that he took a cut of 129 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: the action with Michael Jackson on his Thriller video and 130 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 2: made a fortune, and he said it was the best 131 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 2: investment he ever made. 132 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: Well, you know, Vincent, actually, George, you're kind of right there. 133 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 4: It's a little bit. 134 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 3: The person that brought him on board that Thriller song 135 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 3: was Peggy Lipton, you know, from the mod squad in 136 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: Twin Peaks, who was married to Quincy Jones. Quincy needed 137 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: somebody for Thriller to deliver that monologue, and it was 138 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 3: Peggy that said, look, Quincy, Vincent price, come on, man. 139 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 4: So he hired Vincent to do it. 140 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 3: And it's my understanding that it's the opposite there that 141 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: Vincent actually did not take a cut. He took a 142 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: one time payout, you know, again, just to fund his 143 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 3: operation of collecting art and learning about cooking and writing cookbooks. 144 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 3: And then smacked himself in the head that he screwed up, 145 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 3: that he wishes he had taken a cut, because obviously 146 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: Thriller I think to this day the highest grossing album 147 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: of all time. So which story is true, I'm not 148 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 3: sure but either way, that was an essential component of 149 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 3: Price's latter day years to reintroduce him to an entirely 150 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: new generation of young fans and a completely new demographic 151 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: in the nineteen eighties. 152 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: You could be right, I could have it reversed, but 153 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: it was one heck of a move one way or another. 154 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 4: Huh yeah, absolutely. 155 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 3: And then you know the video directed by John Landis, 156 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: who had previously made an American Werewolf in London, with 157 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: those great special effects by Rick Baker. 158 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 4: I remember seeing that. 159 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: When I was a little boy, and that was a 160 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 3: big part of my transition into more extreme horror. I mean, 161 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: that was a terrifying, terrifying little, I say little video. 162 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 3: I think it was thirteen minutes long, and when you're 163 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: a kid just hiding behind the couch when it popped 164 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 3: up on MTV with all those shambling zombies and werewolves, 165 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 3: I mean, that was some serious business. 166 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 2: I mean, throughout some aims of some of these past 167 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: stars and tell me how their careers evolved. Let's start 168 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: with Boris Karloff. Tell me about him. Well, we all 169 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: know Boris Karlov. He's the one of the poster children 170 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: of the genre. 171 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 4: With good reason. We close our eyes. 172 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: We can see that Jack Pierce Cubist makeup on him 173 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 3: and James Wells Frankenstein. But what made Boris so interesting 174 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 3: was he was a working actor for so many years 175 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 3: before he took that gig in nineteen thirty one, a 176 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: British actor who wanted to follow in his brother's footsteps 177 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: and be an actor, and made his way to Canada 178 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 3: first and foremost. And I say that with some pride 179 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 3: because he actually landed first on a farm not too 180 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 3: far from me outside of Toronto, Canada, and you know, 181 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 3: shoveled cow dung for a year and figured well, this 182 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 3: isn't getting me anywhere, and went out west and applied 183 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: his trade and learned how to become an actor. 184 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 4: That ended up in New York. 185 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 3: You know, he'd get gigs, then he wouldn't have gigs, 186 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 3: he'd be up on top, and then he'd be working 187 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: in a factory on a dock somewhere. Went over to 188 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: Hollywood to try to find his way, met up with 189 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: Lon Cheney at the same time, and Cheney gave him 190 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: the advice and said, Boris, you need a gimmick man, 191 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: otherwise no one's going to remember you. So by the 192 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 3: time he got that job as the Monster in thirty 193 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 3: one that completely, irrevocably changed his fortunes. 194 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 4: He was a humble guy. 195 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 3: So the thing about Boris is that he was one 196 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 3: of the first horror superstars. But he never ever to 197 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 3: his dying day and he went the long haul. He 198 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 3: passed away in I think nineteen sixty eight, sixty nine. 199 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 3: But he never had an ego. He was always the 200 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: gentleman of horror because he realized that, you know, you're 201 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 3: huge today, you're on top today, and you're down on 202 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 3: your ass the next week. You know, whatever comes his way, 203 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 3: whatever came his way, he was grateful for the work, 204 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 3: and I think that shows in those performances. 205 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: How about Belle Laguzzi, mister Dracioma, right. 206 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: I mean, I mean it's obvious that there's two sides 207 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 3: at the coin. 208 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 4: George. 209 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 3: I mean, in those early days, he got Bella and 210 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 3: you got Boris because of Universal, you know, bringing those 211 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: two gentlemen to the forefront in the early part of 212 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 3: the nineteen thirties, the first two talkie horror films, Dracula 213 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 3: and Frankenstein simbling pictures. But I mean Bella couldn't be 214 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 3: more I say Boris was humble and grateful for the word. 215 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 3: Bella had an ego. It was a hung Hungarian actor 216 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 3: who you know, came to the stage first, couldn't really 217 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 3: speak the language, the English language, but he learned a 218 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: lot of his lines phonetically. He had played Dracula on stage. Actually, 219 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: some of those first few productions in New York were 220 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: directed by the aforementioned William Cassel, and a lot of 221 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: people don't know that. But by the time he came 222 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 3: to Hollywood and then he was much more regal, much 223 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 3: more sophisticated, playing the Count. Who was actually offered the 224 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 3: role of Frankenstein's Monster the year after, and he refused, 225 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 3: saying that he didn't want to be buried under that 226 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: makeup that you know there was beneath him. 227 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: Now. 228 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 3: He kicked himself later and wishes to god he did 229 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 3: later on in nineteen forty three, he did play the Monster, 230 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: none too effectively. 231 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 4: And Frankenstein Meets the Wolfman. But Bella's four were never 232 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,119 Speaker 4: quite as high as Boris's. 233 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 3: First of all was the language barrier. He really couldn't 234 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 3: speak the language very well, and the roles just did 235 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 3: not come his way. He was usually relegated to being 236 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 3: a sidekick to Boris Karloff in several pictures, and the 237 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,719 Speaker 3: two of them had a sort of front of me 238 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 3: relationship where they on the surface seemed like they got 239 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: along as colleagues, but underneath, Bella resented, seethingly resented Boris 240 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 3: Karloff's fortunes and success, and Bella's final days, as many 241 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 3: people know, were not as sunny as Boris' is. He 242 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 3: died with slave to addiction, and I think his final 243 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 3: film was annoble picture directed by the not so great 244 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,319 Speaker 3: ed Wood plan nine from Outer Space, which he didn't 245 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 3: even really star, and it was just cobbled together from 246 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 3: whome movies that would have taken of Bella just before 247 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 3: he passed, So his final days were not as sunny 248 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 3: as Boris's. 249 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: Did they make any money in those days? 250 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 3: Chris, Sure they made money, but you know what I mean, 251 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: the days of getting the deals, And we talked about 252 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 3: Vincent Price having the option to take the payout or 253 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 3: take the piece of the action. I mean, no one 254 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 3: was getting any piece of the action back then. You 255 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 3: were only as good as your next picture. So residuals 256 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: were not the name of the game. So in their heyday, 257 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 3: they were making money. As long as the lights were 258 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 3: on and the work was coming their way, cash was king. 259 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 3: But after those movies, you know, in those early days too, 260 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 3: no vhs, no television, so a movie would open theatrically 261 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,599 Speaker 3: and then it would vanish into the ether, maybe be 262 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 3: re released if the was a big enough hit. 263 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 4: If not, then it was gone. 264 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 3: So when those movies were gone, so was any chance 265 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 3: of recouping any money from that. So as they aged 266 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 3: and the work started to dry up, especially in Bella's case, no, 267 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 3: there was no money. You know. 268 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 4: Bella died impoverished. Boris, on the other hand, again, as. 269 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: I mentioned, stayed in the game and worked and worked 270 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 3: and worked until his final days. I think was his 271 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,719 Speaker 3: last movie was the Roger Corman produced Peter Bogdanovich art 272 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 3: house masterpiece Targets. So he went out with some glory 273 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 3: and was making money right until the end. But no, 274 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 3: if you were not making money off the pictures, you 275 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: made your one time shot, and if you kept working 276 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:15,559 Speaker 3: you were in the chips. 277 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 4: If not, now, yeah, maybe your career wasn't. 278 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 2: His sunny, Well, it's Chris Alexander. His book, of course, 279 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: is called Art, Trash, Terror, Ventures and Strange cinema, and 280 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 2: cinema is strange. It seems like the lower budget horror 281 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: films make more money. 282 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 3: Chris, I always say that if look at some of 283 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: the great horror pictures in history, the ones that really 284 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 3: changed the game. 285 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 4: And I'm talking about. 286 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: Movies like Georgia Merrow's The Knight of the Living Dead 287 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 3: in Night sixty eight or yeah, you know, the Toby Hoopers, 288 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 3: the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and usually come from the underground, 289 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 3: the independence. And you don't need big stars for your 290 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 3: horror film to be successful. You need a great title, 291 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 3: a great concept, a great poster, and you need to 292 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 3: know how to push the buttons to. 293 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 4: Get your audience to scream. 294 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: And so a lot of these lower budgeted films make 295 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: money because guess what, they don't cost a lot of money. 296 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: So if you're spending less and you're keeping your production 297 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: incredibly controlled. You know, most money in Hollywood, most of 298 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: the money, as you know, goes to the stars, which 299 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 3: goes to the actors and the marketing. So if you're 300 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 3: not spending that money and the movies a hit, you're 301 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: just sitting back and laughing and counting the bills. You know, 302 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: Texas Chainsaw Massacre was a smash success. Night of the 303 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: Living Dead played everywhere forever. Now, the sad case in 304 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 3: that particular picture was George Rameirill made a mistake when 305 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 3: he was retitling the film from Night of the Flesh 306 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: Eaters to Night of the Living Dead and didn't put 307 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 3: a copyright notice on the film itself, so every distributor 308 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: and cinema owner bootlegged that film thinking the movie was 309 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: in the public domain. So George actually sadly never made 310 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 3: a dime off that movie. But the movie played forever, 311 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 3: and it put George on the map to have an 312 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 3: illustrious career all throughout the nineteen seventies eighties, right up 313 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 3: until he died in two thousand and thirteen. So yeah, 314 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: I mean, horror makes money, and if you spend a little, 315 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 3: your potential potentially can make a lot. 316 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 2: Lon Cheney, what was his favorites? 317 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: Lon Chaney again, one of the great actors of all time. 318 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 4: We call him the first horror film actor, George, but 319 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 4: but that's kind of a misnomer. 320 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 3: I'd say he was just you know, he was a 321 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 3: character actor first and foremost, a vaudevildian star who made 322 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 3: his name at a very young age ran away from home. 323 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: Was the child of deaf mute parents, so he learned 324 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 3: from a very young age to use his body his 325 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 3: hands to communicate effectively. So he became a master of 326 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 3: the vaudeville stage. When that started to dry up, he 327 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 3: was a single dad, his son Creighton Cheney, later changing 328 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: changing his name to Lawn Cheney Junior and starting in 329 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 3: movies like The Wolfman. They moved to la and he 330 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 3: became a Hollywood bit player actor. But I think I 331 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 3: mentioned as a pioneering special effects artist. He would walk 332 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 3: around with this little case with his makeup and his morticians, 333 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 3: wax and wires, and he would take any job that 334 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 3: came to him because he had to, but also because 335 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: he could. He'd go to the studio a lot and 336 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 3: they'd come out and say, okay, we need an old 337 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 3: Chinese fisherman. He'd say, I can do that, and two 338 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: minutes later he was a Chinese fisherman. Then he'd go 339 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 3: back in the lot and they'd come back on and 340 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 3: they say, okay, we need an eighty year old woman 341 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 3: with a hunchback, and he'd said, oh, I can do that, 342 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: and suddenly he was an eighty year old woman with 343 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 3: a hunchbag. He was the man of a thousand faces. 344 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: That literally was what they called him. 345 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 4: In fact, there was an. 346 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: Old joke going around Hollywood in the twenties that don't 347 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 3: step on that bug, it might be lun Cheney. He 348 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 3: could literally be anybody, and we call it a horror 349 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: film star because there were a few films in that 350 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 3: wave of movies he made in the twenties that stand 351 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 3: out as some of the greatest horror films of all time, 352 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 3: First and foremost The Hunchback of Notre Dame, where he 353 00:16:54,760 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 3: played Quasamoto, and most effectively, the first adaptation of gas St. 354 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 3: LaRue's Phantom of the Opera, that great unmasking scene Cheney 355 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 3: spins around. 356 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 4: And he's the living skull. People screamed in their seats. 357 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 3: He died of lung cancer, unfortunately, just as films became 358 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: talking pictures. He would have had a great career, but 359 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 3: he didn't make it. But his legacy speaks for itself. 360 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 2: Forty seven years old, that's all he was when he died. 361 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and again, when you know, when movies became talkies, 362 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 3: when sound was introduced, ninety percent of the big stars 363 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 3: were out of the picture. You know. Rudolph Valentino, the 364 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 3: Sheikh was the Latin lover. Every lady wanted him, every man. 365 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 4: Wanted to be him. 366 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 3: Except when he had to speak, he sounded like Mickey Mouse, 367 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 3: so he was out of there. 368 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 4: Lon Cheney, the Man of. 369 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 3: A Thousand Faces, because he started on Vaudeville, was a 370 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 3: theater theatrically trained actor, so his voice he was the 371 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 3: man of a thousand voices too. He only made one 372 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 3: talking picture, The Holy Three, and he died just shortly 373 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 3: after the release of that film. But had he had 374 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 3: made had lived, he would have been you know, forget 375 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 3: Boris for Bella, he would have been the big horror 376 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: film star of the nineteen thirties. 377 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: Listen to More Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at 378 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to coastam dot 379 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: com for more