1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of 2 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: You Need Therapy. I'm Cat and I am the host. 3 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: If you are new to the podcast, welcome, so glad 4 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: you're here finally made it here. Before we get into anything, 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: I want to give another shout out because I just 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: can't give enough gratitude to Alex Booth for the intro 7 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: music he made specially for the podcast. You can find 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: him and all of the cool mixes and songs and 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: things that he does at at Booth Tunes b O 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: O t H t U n E s. Speaking of 11 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: finding him, you can find me on Instagram at at 12 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: cat dot dot fata and then you can find the 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: podcast at at You Need Therapy Podcast. And also, speaking 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: of the internet, if you guys want to get extra 15 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: connected to me, I send out a newsletter every Monday 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: that I call that the Self Love Club. So every 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: Monday I send out this newsletter and it has a 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: link to the episode that we drop on Mondays, but 19 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: also it has a special message just from me, and 20 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: that will only go out to the newsletter. I don't 21 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: put it on Instagram, I don't put it anywhere else. 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 1: It just goes to that group of people. We also 23 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: put sometimes some special discount codes and just messages in 24 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: there for you guys, because if you did not know 25 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: on our website you need Therapy podcast dot com. We 26 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: have a store so you can shop all of our 27 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: merch in that store, and sometimes we put those discount 28 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: codes in the newsletter, which I'm assuming we'll do something 29 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: for the upcoming holiday of Black Friday. So get on it. 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: Get ahead yourself sign up for the Self Love Club. 31 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: If you go to the website, there's a pop up 32 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: that comes up, and then also you can score to 33 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: the bottom of the website and sign up to join it. 34 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: I would love to have you join it. Okay, So 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: back to the goods off and why you're here. The 36 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: episode today trauma All the Things trauma. So today I 37 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: have my friends and former co workers, Tara Booker and 38 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: Hannah Owens on to talk about trauma and how it 39 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: shows up, how we work with it, what's really going 40 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: on in the brain, all of the things. They're awesome. 41 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: We worked together at a treatment center back in the 42 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: beginning of my I guess career. You would call it 43 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: at a really place that you've heard of if you're 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: a longtime listener, which can you be a longtime listener 45 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: if the podcast has only been around for a year, 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: I think so. But if you've listened to multiple episodes, 47 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: you've probably heard me talk about my work at a 48 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: treatment center before. I've had other colleagues come on that 49 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: I've worked with me there, and Tara and Hannah were 50 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: both therapists there, so they come and talk about trauma 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: with me. Now they also are still working this therapist 52 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: not in that same place, but lucky for you guys, 53 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,959 Speaker 1: they have their own trauma group and we talk about 54 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: that at the end of the episode. We actually talked 55 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: about group therapy and the importance of it. But if 56 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: you find anything that they're saying interesting, or if you 57 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: just want to do some more research on if their 58 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: stuff would be for you, you can find them on 59 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: Instagram at Pearls of Recovery and then you can find 60 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: more online about them at Pearls of Recovery dot com. 61 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: And if you just want to skip all of that 62 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: and you're like, I'm sold. These people sound amazing and 63 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: like they can help me, you can email them Pearls 64 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,119 Speaker 1: of Recovery at gmail dot com. They are awesome, Hannah 65 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: and Tara. I'm so grateful for you coming on and 66 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: spending some time with me, and hopefully we'll have you 67 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: guys back again to talk about more deeper things. So 68 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: thank you and I hope you guys enjoy this conversation. 69 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: I will see you on Wednesday for couch Talks. Hi, everybody, 70 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: I am here with two former what did we call 71 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: each other? Former coworkers colleagues, Tara and Hannah, and we 72 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: are going to be talking about all things trauma today, 73 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: which is really exciting. Brace yourselves. This probably is an 74 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: episode that you might want to make sure you're grounded 75 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: and if you are working through stuff on your own. 76 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: We'll get more into that as it comes up. But 77 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: before we get started, these are two therapists f y 78 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: I and really good therapists and they work with trauma, 79 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: highly acute trauma at times, and all different facets of life. 80 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: And so before we get started, I want them because 81 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 1: I get this question all the time. What made you 82 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: want to become a therapist? Also, when did you know 83 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 1: that you wanted to do that or do this? Hannah's 84 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 1: going first, Yes, I'll go first. I think I knew 85 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: in high school because I had my own mental health 86 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: struggles and went to a therapist starting at the age 87 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: of sixteen, and I was always the friend that was 88 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: like a good listener, and I became passionate about mental 89 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: health and helping people with that. And then my dad 90 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: also had some mental health issues. So I sat in 91 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: the seat of you know, client who's working through stuff, 92 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: and then family member of someone who's working through stuff, 93 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 1: and I wanted to kind of occupy the other seat 94 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: and help people through that in those different seats. So 95 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: you knew. I knew. I fought it because it seemed 96 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: too hard. For all of college, I thought it. I 97 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: always wondered because I never thought it was like gonna. 98 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: I never thought it was would be theravous. But I 99 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: was like, how do you learn how to say things 100 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: to people? Like? How did they teach you what to 101 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: say that? Well, they don't teach that, But in my head, 102 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: I was like, I could never do that because I 103 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: wouldn't know how to learn how to talk to people anyway. 104 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: So that's cool that you already knew. Did you tear 105 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: to do? You know? Okay? I had no idea what 106 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 1: I wanted to be at all when I grew up. Really, 107 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: I just like went to college, did intro classes and 108 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: was like, something will arrive in my brain that you 109 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 1: have a major when you went no. I was undecided 110 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: for my first two years. Okay, and then I'm just 111 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: gonna try this. I landed in a social work ethics 112 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: course or like a cultural divorce diversity course or something 113 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: and really enjoyed like the topic and the conversation and 114 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: just kind of like the sociology aspects of things, and 115 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: then said, I'll take more social work courses. I'll do 116 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: intro to social work. And so then I really was like, 117 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: I liked the idea of helping people. Uh, it's just 118 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: kind of like getting my hands dirty, feet on the ground, 119 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: like that kind of mentality about um social work that 120 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: was really appealing to me. Much later, looking back, I 121 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: could see a lot of set up in my life 122 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,799 Speaker 1: for the ability to show up for struggle and trauma 123 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: and having you know, faced it in my world as 124 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: a kid in a lot of different ways, and that 125 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: I was always like pretty apt at just like handling 126 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: and like supporting and all those things. That I was 127 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: always really steady in a lot of those spaces, especially 128 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: for other people. So I could see that looking back, 129 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: but I did not put that together until much later 130 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: and after just kind of like doing social work stuff 131 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: in undergrad and doing intern chips, and I knew I 132 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: wanted to work with adults. I learned I like to 133 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: work in addictions, and and then that just kind of 134 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: led me in the social work realm. You can kind 135 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: of try on a lot of different hats and you 136 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: don't necessarily have to be a therapist. But that's where 137 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: I felt the most myself, and what I enjoyed the 138 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: most was kind of getting into the nitty gritty with people. Yeah, okay, 139 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: so you have a social work degree, so your life 140 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: both of you were both l okay so to licensed 141 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: clinical social workers, so you could have done a lot 142 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: of different things. You, guys, I would say, are experts 143 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: in trauma. What in the world brought you into that. 144 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: I didn't go to school being like I'm gonna work 145 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: with trauma. This is kind of like truth that you 146 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: just have to if you're going to work in mental health. 147 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: And we'll get into why that is. But what did 148 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: you do before you came to the place we all 149 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 1: work together, which was like a highly acute trauma program. 150 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: I was in an addictions um like six months transitional 151 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: recovery program, and like all my undergrad experience was in 152 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: that in Nashville, and I loved that these were women 153 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: coming out of incarceration, coming out of homelessness, struggling with 154 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: long term addiction, bamp trauma like there it is uh 155 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: So exposure really quick to the levels of just kind 156 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: of suffering in in some disenfranchised populations was really obvious. 157 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: I think social work has a way of exposing that 158 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more out front, because you're you're dealing 159 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: with kind of the bottom the people who are often 160 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: the most suffering in in really in resource world and 161 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: social justice world, and so do thing it lends itself 162 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: to that exposure really easily. And then I went to 163 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 1: an acute psychiatric hospital for like my grad school, I 164 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 1: did not internship uh in Madison and worked kind of 165 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: in all the units I mean, like acute pige teens 166 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: primarily was in the co occurring so most people were 167 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: there for detox and that kind of thing. So addiction 168 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: was always kind of like where I spent most of 169 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: my time in the beginning. Um but that exposed me 170 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: to like a much broader mental health realm. It's also 171 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: like I can do anything now that's exactly. I was like, yeah, 172 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: I felt like, uh yeah, I had seen a whole 173 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: whole lot and and and trauma was all in the 174 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: mix of that. Yeah, how did you get in? Similar? 175 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: Kind of backed into it and that I show social 176 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: work because there was a lot of different positions, roles, 177 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: jobs that you could have, and I initially thought I 178 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: wanted to do more like advocacy education reducing stigma around 179 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: mental health treatment, and then realized I'm more cut out 180 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: to be a clinician. And then my first few years 181 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: after grad school was like, what jobs are available? So 182 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: I got a job at a psychiatric hospital similar to yeah, 183 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: so psych hospital, trauma all over the place, and then 184 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: also needed a job, got a job at the residential 185 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: treatment center where we met. And I feel like trauma 186 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: addictions found me more than I went out searching for it, 187 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: and then it felt like it fit after working with it. Yeah. 188 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: And I always say when people ask, and I'm assuming 189 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: you guys would feel the same that when people are 190 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: looking when they're younger and just we're not even younger, 191 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: but when they're getting into it and in school and 192 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: looking for internships and like find the hardest one. I 193 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: find the one that scares you the most. Because I 194 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: did my internship where we worked, I would get ill 195 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: in the shed bathroom, would like hide in there, and 196 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: that one of the therapists in the group, who was 197 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: in charge of the group, that Iran would be like, Okay, 198 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: we're going to start grouping on, like, I'm really not 199 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: feeling well. I'm gonna go home. I mean, it was 200 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: his anxiety, but I was so scared because I want 201 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: to didn't know what the heck I was doing. But 202 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you never was, and you never knew what 203 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: was going to happen that day kind of thing. And 204 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: with that, I now haven't been in that world in 205 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: a while. But eventually it's like, oh what, I don't 206 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: really care. Anything could happen. I know I can handle it. 207 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: I might not handle it perfectly, but I know that 208 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: I'll be able to figure it out because I haven't 209 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: died yet from doing therapy. Okay, So since we're going 210 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 1: to talk about trauma today, we're going to start out 211 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: with defining what trauma is, and in other episodes we've 212 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: talked about that, but we're going to start from the 213 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: bottom and work our way up. So from y'all's perspective, 214 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: how do you define trauma? What does trauma mean? And 215 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: then we'll kind of go from there as simply as 216 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: possibly to not convolute such a ginormous word, I think 217 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: I would say anything that feels really harmful, and in 218 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: particular harmful in the sense of it exposes or offers 219 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: a threat to our sense of love and belonging and 220 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: our sense of security and safety. In another word, to 221 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: think of as dysfunction, like what in a particular moment 222 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: something can be extremely dysfunctional, or for a long period 223 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: of time or a set period of time, something can 224 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: be really dysfunctional. And I think that to me is 225 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: what encapsulates what is traumatizing to our body or spirit 226 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: or mind or emotional self is something that's harmful, something 227 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: that's you know, overly distressing to our system in any way. 228 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: And then post traumatic stress or unresolved trauma is just 229 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: essentially that that didn't get the repair that it needed, 230 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: the release and the repair that it needed. And we 231 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: can go into that a little bit more specifically. As 232 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: we talked through this, Yeah, none of this I want 233 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: everybody that's listening to know that none of this is 234 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: to say we're going to make it so that every 235 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: single one of you has deep rooted trauma and everything 236 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: that's happened to you is horrible. That's not the goal. 237 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: I think the goal really is to give some insight 238 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: into things that we in our head think shouldn't bother 239 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 1: us or shouldn't affect us, have affected us, whether we 240 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: think they should or shouldn't have. And so I want 241 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: the people listening to listen to this in a way 242 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: that offers more like grace and maybe the things they're 243 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: stuck in rather than causing you to have more pain. 244 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: Or my life's more screwed up than I thought, and 245 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: the world that I grew up in, the culture that 246 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: I grew up, and I think that in America is 247 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: a big part of overall culture is get over it, 248 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 1: or that happened ten years ago, what it happened a 249 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: month ago. I think even somebody asked me this week 250 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: of when is this going to be over? Like when 251 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: am I going to be over this? I'm like, I 252 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: have no idea, we don't. There's not a timeline for healing. 253 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: And so when you say anything that's harmful, that isn't 254 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: to say that everything is trauma. But at the same time, 255 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: anything that's harmful is traumatic and can't affect you, And 256 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: if we act like it doesn't affect you, then it's 257 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: just gonna affect you more at some point, whether you 258 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: realize it or not. I think the word is really 259 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: challenging in a lot of ways. It's very nuanced. But 260 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: I prefer to to actually talk about diving into this 261 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: part of someone's work as just wounded nous. Like that's 262 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: actually a word that I use much more frequently with people, 263 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: is like just your wounds, your wounded nous, and everybody 264 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: knows what that is and everybody can identify like what hurt, 265 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: Like what was is a wound that I carry around 266 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: and have I given that attention, you know, And I 267 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: think we use the word trauma clinically to validate wounds, 268 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: to give them attention and to acknowledge that they need 269 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: something they need tending to. But that's a scary word. Yeah, 270 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: So okay, do you want to go and talk about 271 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: little tea and big tea next? Because I think what 272 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: you're saying is anything that's harmful. People are like, oh, so, 273 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: like does that mean when I stub my toe? Because 274 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: when I say trauma and I talked about trauma with 275 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: people they think of like sexual as salt, or my 276 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: house caught on fire when I was younger or something 277 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: like that. So, yes, those are traumas, those are wounds, 278 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: but it's not all that it looks like. And so, Hannah, 279 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: will you tell us the difference between big tea and 280 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: little tea and why we even have those two things. 281 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: One thing that comes to mind and this conversation is 282 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: you talked about our culture and just get over it. 283 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: What's the big deal? And what I've found and working 284 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: with a lot of people, is that we're so resilient, 285 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: like we are just designed to survive and heal. And 286 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: just because we made it through something doesn't mean it 287 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: didn't hurt. So giving both like whoa, I lived through 288 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: that and it hurt. So just because I survived it 289 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it wasn't harmful or impactful for me. Looking 290 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: at little Tea and big Tea helps widen the view 291 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: of what could have been harmful in my life. So 292 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: we all normally agree that surviving a natural disaster, going 293 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: to war, even witnessing violence is something we would call trauma. Oh, 294 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: this person has trauma. Definitely. Those are things we'd normally 295 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: call big tea because they are very out of the ordinary, 296 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: life altering events that nine point nine out of tend 297 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: people go into and come out impacted negatively. Unfortunately, that 298 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: only captures some of what can be harmful in life. 299 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: If you've ever been a relationship and got your feelings hurt, 300 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: if you've ever had difficulty at a job where you 301 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: felt outs did because of whatever reason, the little tea 302 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: comes in and says, hey, there are some other kind 303 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: of more daily or more seemingly benign experiences that can 304 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: be harmful. Even when you just said relationship. A lot 305 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: of people wouldn't put like a breakup in a big tea. 306 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: It could be a big tea, but it also losing 307 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: a best friend that you've had can be and people 308 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: like I broke up with him three years ago, I 309 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: should be over it, and it's like, well, there might 310 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: be more to it. Definitely more to it. I think 311 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: loss and grief even to talk about that, the loss 312 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: of relationship, the loss of a loved one, although those 313 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: are normal events that we all experience, if there is 314 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: some kind of hurt that doesn't get nurturing or attention, 315 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: or feels undone or left open, I think that's where 316 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: you start to carry that woundedness that Tara was talking about. 317 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: I like that you said they're normal experiences. So I 318 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: think that a lot of people are like, I don't 319 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: have trauma because everybody goes through this, or a lot 320 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: of people have broken up with a boyfriend, or a 321 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: lot of people didn't have a mom at home every 322 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: day after school to make them a snack. Well, they 323 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: might be normal, but it doesn't mean it didn't affect 324 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: you right exactly. And I was listening to I don't 325 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: know what it was. I wish I could give it credit, 326 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: but I'm not going to take credit for this. But 327 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: I was listening to a podcast that was talking about 328 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: resilience and where it comes from and the fact that 329 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 1: I might even said this, Oh my god, Okay, this 330 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: is embarrassing. Okay, So I was, I guess talking about 331 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: this with somebody at some point, but talking about how 332 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: like we only build resilience by going through trauma, so 333 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: we all have to experience trauma. If our nervous system 334 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: never has to turn on, then it doesn't ever learn 335 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: how to work. So I think, also, if anybody's listening 336 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: to this and like, oh my gosh, I've had trauma, 337 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: or I don't want to acknowledge trauma. No, it's actually 338 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: part of life that we need. We just also need 339 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,439 Speaker 1: to nurture the part that wasn't nurtured. I would just 340 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: add one thing to that I think can be helpful 341 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: between big tea and little tea is just something that 342 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: I say in clients all the time. Everything is on 343 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 1: a spectrum in life, and that's what big versus little 344 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: is about. Sometimes is giving, like allowing yourself to look 345 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: at your experiences on a spectrum and you only have 346 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: your spectrum. Also, like if you never experienced being physically assaulted, 347 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: or if you've never experienced being discriminated for the color 348 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: of your skin, then like you can't actually rate your 349 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: pain on that scale, can't compare yourself to that. Your 350 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: brain and your body actually won't be able to grasp that. 351 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: So your scale is your scale. And there is kind 352 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: of from zero to ten or zero to a hundred 353 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: difference between a certain experience that was really hurtful and 354 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: really maybe shook my self esteem in a certain way 355 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: um or made me doubt myself when you know, all 356 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: the kids didn't pick me to be on their team 357 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: and in school that maybe a little tea because it 358 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: only happened one time, but I remember it, and it 359 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: really like I made sure that I was really performative 360 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: in other areas to not feel out again, or versus 361 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: bigger teas which may just be further down on the 362 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: spectrum where my boyfriend told me that I was a 363 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: worthless piece of crap and left me prom like, that's 364 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: gonna be higher on the scale. And so I think 365 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: just the spectrum allows for things to have a different 366 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: level of impact, but it doesn't mean they didn't they 367 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: didn't have any or it's any less important or less validated. 368 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: And I tell people a lot the worse when people 369 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: are talking about like it's not that big of a 370 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,360 Speaker 1: deal because these people are experiencing this, I'm like, well, 371 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: your body cannot actually compute that, Like your brain isn't like, 372 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,479 Speaker 1: oh you can't feel this, turn it off, and so 373 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: your pain is always going to be the worst pain 374 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: there is because you're the one feeling it. And that 375 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: is for some reason, it's a weird concept to be 376 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: able to register and people's brains and bodies. So now 377 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: that we have this defined, I do want to talk 378 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: about how our bodies want again. We're resilient. Yes, our 379 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: bodies will carry us through stuff and do things and 380 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: create things. That's where addiction comes in. We've talked about 381 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: that a lot on the podcast, But can we talk 382 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 1: about like how the body in trauma, especially in these 383 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: bigger t trauma events, will actually like push some of 384 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: these experiences away from your memory. I'm not a neuroscientist 385 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: or neurologists, however, this is how I best understand in 386 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 1: moments of trauma, whether that is what we've talked about, 387 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,479 Speaker 1: a normal experience that is harmful, or something that's bigger. 388 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: What happens is that our left brain, which is the 389 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: logic reason memory sequencing, all that goes offline because we 390 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: don't need it to get through that moment. Our right brain, 391 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,880 Speaker 1: which holds our emotions, what's going on in our body 392 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: and our nervous system, and the part of our nervous 393 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: system that activates us for survival in to fight, flight 394 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: or freeze, that part of our brain in the moment 395 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: of trauma is completely overwhelmed and it's like sirens going 396 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: off and gets you through that moment. So if you 397 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: have that experience, that's one way to explain why you 398 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: might not have a conscious memory of this happened, Then 399 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: that happened, and I felt sad, and then I was scared, 400 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: and then I ran. You may feel a lot, either 401 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: emotionally or in your body, or both fear or dained 402 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: you're when you get and maybe a similar circumstance because 403 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: your body remembers and your emotions remember. But if your 404 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: left brain was offline, you don't have a story for it. 405 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: And that's where for me there can be a disconnect. 406 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: And that's why a lot of times people I always 407 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: use fear to describe this, but people will like, I'm 408 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: scared I'm going to die in an event that's not 409 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: life threatening because your body remembers. I know what fear 410 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: feels like, and I thought I was going to die 411 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: when I was scared, So now everyone should feel fear. 412 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: My body panics, even when logically you can be like, 413 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: well this isn't life threatening, panic attacks, all that stuff, Okay, 414 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: so what do you do with that? Like, if you 415 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: have a client that or if you're working with somebody 416 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: and they are responding to events as life threatening or 417 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: they end up having to shut down their their nervous 418 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: system goes into freeze and they shut down and events 419 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: that really aren't that life threatening but are scary. How 420 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: do you approach that with somebody. One of the first 421 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: things I was thinking is like, whatever you I'll say 422 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: this to clients. Whatever you have is enough. If your 423 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: body is giving us cues, if you have emotional if 424 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: you have thoughts, if you have a memory, if you don't, 425 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,359 Speaker 1: if you have a trigger that you can, it's enough 426 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: for us to follow it. Um like, it will take 427 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: us wherever we need to go. We don't. You don't 428 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: always have to have the whole story you don't know. 429 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: You don't need that in order to heal, and you 430 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 1: don't need that in order to get what you needed 431 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: to dive into the work either. So just trusting that 432 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: is a really powerful tool, I think in the presence 433 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: of people and within teaching them that too. So if 434 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: they don't quite understand, like why am I reacting so 435 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: strongly to something? I mean a lot of it. The 436 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: first thing that comes to my mind is going to 437 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: be real exploration. You know, when are some of the 438 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: first times in your life that you remember feeling this 439 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: particular way. A good classic therapist question how old do 440 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: you feel when? Uh? And that gives us some range 441 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: even if you don't remember what specifically happened at I'm 442 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: feeling like I'm ten years old, but I don't know why. 443 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm tending I don't remember a thing. 444 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: That it's okay. We can start with what we have. 445 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: Because if you feel like you were ten years old 446 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: and you don't know what was going on at ten 447 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: years old, that's setting off this alarm in you. We 448 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: can still really offer nurturing and response, but we need 449 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: to respond to it as we're responding to a ten 450 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: year old, right, so it gives us an end we 451 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: at least start to walk down the pathway to meeting 452 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: the actual need. I think that's helpful for people to 453 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: hear that you don't always have to have the whole 454 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: story in order to find healing, because sometimes you don't 455 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: ever get the full story, and we don't even know 456 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: that we don't have the full story, and that will 457 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: drive us crazy. But one thing that I know as 458 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 1: helpful is going through and you have to do this 459 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: in spaces that you feel safe in, but going through 460 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: events and moments and experiences where you feel that feeling 461 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: but you have a different experience of like I can 462 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: feel fear and actually have a good experience, which is 463 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,959 Speaker 1: where a lot of experiential stuff comes in. So, Okay, 464 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: let's talk about impact of trauma. Okay, tell us how 465 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: trauma can impact people differently, even if it's the same event, Like, Okay, 466 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: well I went through this thing and my friend's fine 467 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: and I feel crazy. Why might that be? There are 468 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: factors about even how I'm wired, what my personality is 469 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: that sets me up to be impacted differently than Terra 470 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: is impacted. We could sit through the same you know, 471 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: lecture and have different reactions. We can be in a 472 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: similar relationship with another friend and have different experiences with 473 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: that person because of kind of how we're wired, our 474 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: DNA or personality, our own attachment. Yes, how we learned 475 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: how to navigate the world in relationships. Um, if we 476 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: learn different things about that, then we will respond differently 477 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: to the very same circumstance. I come back to that 478 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: spectrum thing, so that even if we're responding differently and 479 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: the impact is different, it still hurts, you know, one 480 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: person to the next. Yes, And I think that it's 481 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: not one event that creates somebody's trajectory of their life 482 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: of how they deal with something. It's every event that 483 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: led up to that one event, and then you figure 484 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: out what do based on everything that's led up to that. 485 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: And so that's why there's not like this is how 486 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 1: you deal with this kind of trauma. This is how 487 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: you deal with this kind of trauma. There's not a 488 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 1: one size fits all for healing. So a lot of 489 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: these questions that I'm asking you are super hard to 490 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: answer because there's a general consensus of this is how 491 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: we treat that kind of thing, and you have to 492 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: pivot a lot when you're working with clients. Yeah, I mean, 493 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about exposure, Like what has your exposure 494 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: in life been, both for struggle and for strength, for 495 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: support and nurturing and for suffering, And and that actually 496 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: can differ in the same home with siblings, right, so 497 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: like I we may have had the same shitty dad. 498 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if we can say whatever you want, 499 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: um And for some reason, you know, my brother has 500 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: is way less you know, walking, It doesn't have anxiety 501 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: when he tries to show up for jobs and do 502 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: certain tasks. But I have debility and anxiety from this, 503 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: and they're his exposure and experience when he goes to 504 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: school is in friend groups. Even his interactions with the 505 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: dad may have been very different than mine in all 506 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: those different categories. Maybe his relationship with our other caretaker 507 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: was different than mine was. And maybe there's another sibling 508 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: that they had a strong alliance with. So there are 509 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: so many specific factors that go into the difference of 510 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: how do I cope with something versus how someone else does. 511 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 1: And then there's also really important thing to say that, like, 512 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: just because they look like they're fine right also doesn't 513 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: mean that they are right. So that's a good thing 514 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: to remember. And we talked about family roles, and I 515 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: love that you said that because we survive differently even 516 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: on our family system. That's why we have those different roles. 517 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: So somebody who takes on the scapegoat role has the 518 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: same mom and dad or whoever is raising them than 519 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: somebody who is taking on the playcater role. Neither of 520 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: them might not be fine. It doesn't mean the playcat 521 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: is more fine the scapegoat and scapegoat honestly might be 522 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: more fine. Yeah, they're getting of some stuff out at least, okay, 523 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: So let's talk about how we survive our stuff. So, 524 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 1: and I want to talk about this through the lens 525 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: of a little T trauma or maybe more than one, 526 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 1: and then also big T traumas. So what do we 527 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: do to get through? What should we start with? How 528 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 1: should we do this? I don't see them very distinguished, 529 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: So then let's say, okay, we could put them together. Okay, 530 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: let's talk about how you survive the events and then 531 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: how you survive living your life after. I don't really 532 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,719 Speaker 1: even know how to ask that question. I just want 533 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: to talk about it. Just start talking about So you know, 534 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: I think with all kinds of trauma, there is probably 535 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: a moment or two of the most intense fear or 536 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: harm or impact, even if it happens over and over, 537 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: and so I think in that moment, our bodies do 538 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: it for us. We're usually we pick, we have a 539 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: default of either fight or flight or freeze. So I'm 540 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: gonna fight to get out of this intense moment where 541 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: I feel threatened. I'm gonna run away or I'm gonna 542 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: shut down and play dead. Um, and our body decides 543 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 1: what's most effective in that moment. We don't think about 544 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: it, It It just happens. So that's do you know what 545 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: initiates somebody's choice? And that I'm a very freezy person. 546 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm the most freeze freezer. If I am being chased 547 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: by somebody trying to do something harmful to me, I 548 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: will just take me. I don't know. I wonder about 549 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: DNA and genes. So Tara just said epidemics and nobody 550 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: listening to epics is also what I was thinking about 551 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: and what sets us up for how we experienced trauma. 552 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: What isn't But it's just the fact that we carry 553 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: down generational um experiences, just like we carry down generational 554 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: medical you know, bodily things like high blood pressure and 555 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: all that jazz, and so we carry down body responses 556 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: to stress essentially or lack thereof. And so if a 557 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: few generations before me, their best survival mechanism when there 558 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: was a really dangerous, you know, situation of violence or 559 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: people shooting around, the way that I best survived that 560 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 1: my great grandparents was to just stay in the house, 561 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: shut my door, be really quiet, lay on the floor 562 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: until it's over freeze. Then generations down. Science has shown 563 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: us that if there's a similar triggering event, generations down 564 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: that can turn on that survival response of freezing. If 565 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: there's violence, if there's a threat to my safety. Then 566 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm just going to be really quiet, get really still, 567 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: and not make up wave in this situation to survive it. Yeah, 568 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: that's upo genetics and a very layman's simple way of 569 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: talking about it. Yeah, it's it's better to talk about 570 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: these things in simple terms because it allows us to 571 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: understand it. Okay, So do you guys think there's a 572 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: best response whatever one keeps you alive? I don't think 573 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: that mine would always be the best response if it 574 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: kept you alive, you okay, I disagree validate your body's survival. Hey, 575 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: I needed that. Okay, So you survive it in the 576 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: moment through that. And I think that people think fight 577 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: flight of freeze comes on in big events. Were always 578 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: that's always happening. So how might that show up in 579 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: a smaller, more emotional wound. Yeah, I mean I was 580 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: thinking like about really basic ways of looking at fight 581 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: flight and freeze to because I think all of our 582 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: all the survival mechanisms, defense behaviors would probably fall into 583 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: those categories if you pick them apart, you know, And 584 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: so if there's just a general like you know, my 585 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: parents had a year of fighting every single night before 586 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: they got divorced and so I was in the house 587 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: feeling like things are Oh my gosh, you know, my 588 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,479 Speaker 1: world is falling apart. This is the way that I 589 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: understand security is these two humans functioning together and living 590 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: in this home. And so that's threatened, and I'm worried 591 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: about who everyone's going to be okay if they aren't 592 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: able to stay in this particular unit that I understand 593 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: safety and security in. And so my fight in that 594 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: might be running in and saying, you guys need to 595 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: stop fighting somebody, my even teenager, my interviewing, you know, 596 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm so sick of that, and have some kind of 597 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: their own aggression and their own anger that they're expressing, 598 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: or they may fight their actual fights at school, you know, 599 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: or their siblings and just releasing aggression another way, which 600 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: can also create a diversion, and maybe if they pay 601 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: attention to this, they won't be mad at each other. 602 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: Or flight, which is I'm not going home anymore. I'm 603 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: gonna go hang out with my friends. I'm gonna find 604 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: after school activities. I'm just gonna like be other places 605 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: as much as I possibly can, or just lost child 606 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,959 Speaker 1: ng as a as a great flight kind of just 607 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: like being lost in your own room. Um, and I 608 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: can at least feel like I'm somewhere else. Dissociation is 609 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: a great flight and frees kind of response. I'm out 610 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: of my body. I'm not feeling an experiencing thing. And 611 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: freeze is just you know, I think it can look 612 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: like reading a book, getting lost in TV or social media, 613 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: or and just really it's the shutdown from kind of 614 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: neck down that I'm just kind of going offline as 615 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: much as I possibly can. Food addictions and all kinds 616 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: of stuff can really get us into freeze. What's going 617 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: on in our dorsal veagel system. Okay, they don't know 618 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: what dorsal vegel is. You use it a word again, 619 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: you have to explain it. U dorsal veagel is like 620 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,479 Speaker 1: the ventral vegel nerve runs through It's like the longest 621 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: nerve in our autonomic nervous system, which they if you 622 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: are a listener, I've talked about this in the Trauma 623 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 1: and Your Body and how They're connected episodes, So go 624 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: back and let's but let's I love this, So let's 625 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: talk about the biggest nerve. And I think that also 626 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: determines like how your body is naturally. If it's dropping down. 627 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: It has like three different levels and I'm not going 628 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: to remember all of them. Uh, there's a ventral vegel 629 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: which I think keeps some activation going, which means you 630 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: may be about able to access or the one right 631 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: below that central vegel. Something else in the dorsal vegel, 632 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,719 Speaker 1: and I can't remember the one in the middle, But 633 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: what do is dorsal vegel. Dorsal vegel is freeze. That's 634 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: like when you're in rest and digest um and those 635 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: kinds of things naturally, but your body can do that 636 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: in response to fear going off in your amygdala, and 637 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: so it can just be like, oh, we can't do 638 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: anything about this, Lets just you know, shut down, play dead. Essentially, 639 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: the vegas nervous something that is in your brain and 640 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: it connects to your body. So it's connecting the experiences 641 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 1: and thoughts and emotions to your body's organs. So that's 642 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: why it's like, you can't disconnect those two things. Therapy 643 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: involves feeling in your body and feeling and thinking in 644 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: your head. You can't disconnect them because they're always connected. 645 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: So what about like how do we survive and what 646 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: shows up after the trauma has it's happened, we're moving, 647 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: we're back in life. What happens now? How do we 648 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: keep surviving outside of that knowing that this thing happened 649 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,959 Speaker 1: that kind of like wrecked and messed with part of 650 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: our our own process of being human. For me to 651 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: boil it down to what we're after as humans, as 652 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: living humans, which comes from another colleague of all three 653 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: of us, um that we respect, but that we need 654 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: two things, love and security, and in the moment of trauma, 655 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: both are threatened in some way usually and then what 656 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: gives the lasting impact, as we've said, is that we 657 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: don't get that repaired. We don't come back and say, oh, 658 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: you needed to feel safe. You didn't let me help 659 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: you feel safe right now? And so are surviving, whether 660 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: it's a big single event or an ongoing scary thing, 661 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 1: is a constant reach for one of those two things 662 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 1: or both. And we can do that in so many ways. 663 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,399 Speaker 1: So if my parents are very critical and I don't 664 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: feel the kind of acceptance that I need as a human, 665 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: I may look to my peers and develop maybe a 666 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: really big people pleasing behavior because I really need love 667 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,919 Speaker 1: and acceptance. I'm not getting it over year, So I'll 668 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: find another place to get it, in another way to 669 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,439 Speaker 1: get it. I'm thinking about perfectionism too. I might become 670 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: like straight a student and everything I know that I'm 671 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: good at this and don't always have this to fall 672 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 1: back on, or the star athlete or something like that, 673 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: which can be super helpful in your life and super 674 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: not helpful. That's what happens with survival behaviors is that 675 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: they do help us survive, and often we come to 676 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,879 Speaker 1: a point where they're now hurting us. So we got 677 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: to negotiate something different. Why is addiction and trauma connected? 678 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: Why are they connected? Yeah? So, I mean I I 679 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 1: assume we're maybe talking about both substance in process addiction, 680 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: any kind of addiction, which I've never in my life 681 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: met somebody that struggles with some kind of addiction who 682 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: doesn't have some kind of trauma. So when we say 683 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: substance process addictions, that we're talking about drugs and alcohol, food, sex, 684 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 1: moren work, TV, all gambling. Those are all behaviors and chemicals, yes, 685 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: all of it. Why they are often paired together is 686 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: they if we're looking for a sense of love and 687 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: security and our body is under stress and threats to 688 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: that those are great immediate solutions. Um their immediate suits. 689 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: Every single one of those are an immediate souther to 690 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: fear and pain. They either numb it for a little while, 691 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: distract us from it for a little while, or if 692 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: there's a sense like of of an emptiness in missing something, 693 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: they fill it up a little bit. And so they're 694 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: great temporary fixes. And our body is looking for relief 695 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: from stress. That's its natural way of processing and healing itself. 696 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: If I'm in pain, I need to fix it. That's 697 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: just what the body does, that's its job. Um, we 698 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: have all these other parts to help our brain and 699 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: our emotional self to help slow that down and learn 700 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: to tolerate pain and learn to respond to it or 701 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: wait for it to pass or to know that it's 702 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,799 Speaker 1: going to be okay. But our body is just going 703 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: to react, and it's going to each for the nearest, 704 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: fastest way of giving us relief. And I think that's 705 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: why it gives the idea that addiction isn't like a 706 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: bad people problem. Anybody who struggles with addiction, which if 707 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: you really are honest with yourself, well we all have 708 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: some kind of something. And so those people that are 709 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: struggling with that, whether it's a chemical that is really 710 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: allowed or a process addiction that actually looks really great 711 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: to the outside world, like work. Neither of those people 712 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,919 Speaker 1: are bad. It's actually a very resilient way to move 713 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: through something. Yeah, it was likely the best choice they have. Yeah, 714 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: and what Hannah said is then it stops working. Essentially 715 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: it ends up causing us harm in the end. And 716 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: so then what do you what do you do with that? 717 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 1: I mean, as therapist, A lot of what we're gonna 718 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: do is figure out what is an actual nurturer to 719 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: your needs. So if you're actually afraid and threatened, then like, 720 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: how can we effectively and supportively and safely give your 721 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: body and your spirit and your mootional self what it 722 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: actually needs? And to figuring out what that is for 723 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: each person becomes a big part of their healing journey. 724 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,839 Speaker 1: You know, I really needed friends that I could tell 725 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: what was going on instead of having to hold this 726 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,919 Speaker 1: and feeling like I couldn't contain it in my body, 727 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,880 Speaker 1: so I'd go do whatever um to have relief. I 728 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: needed people who I could trust, who I felt safe. 729 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: I needed to learn how to do that to finding 730 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: out what is what are the things that we're missing. Um. 731 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: I needed to be able to release the emotion that 732 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: I was feeling. You know, I was angry and it 733 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: was valid anger, and I had to hold it because 734 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: there was no safe place for me to put it. 735 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't okay to talk about that. And so I 736 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: need a felt experience of saying like I can cry 737 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: and getting to do that. I can scream and getting 738 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: to do that. And that can be as small as 739 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: in our sessions right in our offices, or taking it 740 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: out into just like a regular practice in your life 741 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: with people. So yeah, I give you know, it's a 742 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: sort of replacing. I don't like the word because we're 743 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: not replacing it with an unhealthy thing or with an addiction, 744 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: and we're just actually offering it a true source of 745 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: what it needs. You're not just coping anymore. You're actually 746 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: healing the wound. And a lot of our wounds are 747 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: needed to be healed with humans because they usually are 748 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,839 Speaker 1: created with humans. Yes, I think I just want to 749 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: reiterate that both healing trauma and living a healthy life. 750 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: If I'm putting quotes around that is becoming aware of 751 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: my needs and responding to them and doing that over 752 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: and over and over. Yeah, it's not a one time, 753 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: you do it once. Okay. That's why when you go 754 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: to treatment a lot of times, it's like you have 755 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: to keep doing that for a very long time. You 756 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: can't just go somewhere for thirty days and then all 757 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: of a sudden your whole brain is fixed in your 758 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: body and all the things. It's like you have to 759 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: keep doing that for ever and ever until it becomes 760 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: natural and your go to Yeah, and for some people 761 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: that feels like work, and it feels like, can't this 762 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 1: just be over? This whole you know, addressing myself and 763 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: taking care of myself. And I think what is helpful 764 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: to me personally and in my work with clients is like, 765 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: this is the most loving thing I could ever offer 766 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 1: to myself, is to know my needs and consistently respond 767 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: to them in a nurturing way. It's a beautiful way 768 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: to live a life. I think. I love that. I 769 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: hear so often why can't this be over? I want 770 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: this to be over? When is this going to be enough? 771 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: And to reframe that in the way of like, what 772 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: you're doing is being kind to yourself and caring for yourself. 773 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: You don't ever want that to be over right. Something 774 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: that we were talking about in preparation for this with 775 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: that felt like something people don't always know or understand 776 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: about healing from trauma is the difference between like conscious 777 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: and unconscious repair and healing, which, like people a lot 778 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 1: of times they're like, I had a shitty trauma tizing, childhood, whatever, relationship, 779 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: and look at me. I'm so successful now. I have 780 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: a really loving husband, I have great kids. I feel 781 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: like totally equipped as a mom. I have a successful career. Um, okay, 782 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:00,880 Speaker 1: you know. And and so I think what tends to 783 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: happen with those folks is something will still be kind 784 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: of lingering around in some way, right, Like they'll feel, 785 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: they'll still still have a lot of insecurities about certain 786 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: things or about their body, or about or they'll care, 787 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: they'll have a really high anxiety in certain situations, but 788 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: they've just learned. And so I think that is a 789 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,040 Speaker 1: misconception that like, I'm doing okay, I've not repeated the trauma, right, 790 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: haven't stayed in dysfunctional living. I'm not an addict. I'm 791 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,879 Speaker 1: not I don't have all these stuff. And I think 792 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: something that we find where things linger is that that's 793 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: really great, and you've got a lot of good resources 794 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 1: now to actually like really enhance your healing from that 795 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: point forward. But often what that is is I've given 796 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: myself an unconscious kind of shift out of dysfunction into function, 797 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: which is like I just you know, happened to find 798 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: myself with a loving husband versus a one that was 799 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,319 Speaker 1: like my dad in that. The unconscious part of that 800 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,080 Speaker 1: is there may be still other areas and I don't 801 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: understand why still whatever I'm not with that person, I'm 802 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: not repeating those I don't get it. So conscious repair 803 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: of that just means that I'm really connecting the dots 804 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: of my past in my present, and a lot of 805 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: times we're not directly connecting. Like I was here, it 806 00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: was really painful. These were all the things I didn't 807 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: get that I needed, and look at me. I'm going 808 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: to go and give myself those things today, and just 809 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: really like completing the narrative where there's a thread all 810 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 1: the way through that you're aware that things were missing 811 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: and that you're then responding with something different and more nurturing. 812 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: Just connecting that dot. Often it shifts your your body 813 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,839 Speaker 1: is now caught up with it, rather than you're just 814 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 1: doing it on an intellectual level. And that's even like 815 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,280 Speaker 1: creating reframes in the voices we hear and the lens 816 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: we look through. And so I think a lot of 817 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,880 Speaker 1: times it's I'm confused how I got here and I 818 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 1: have this loving husband, and so that's why I deserve it, Yes, 819 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: And so that's why you have deserve it. So you 820 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: have to go back, and that's why we do a 821 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: lot of timelines and the work that we do, because 822 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,640 Speaker 1: we have to go, well, what, okay, your thought pattern 823 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: is I don't deserve it, I'm not good enough, there's 824 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: something wrong with me. Let's go figure out where that 825 00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: came from. Who said that? Is it your voice or 826 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: somebody else's, And let's actually create truth in that today, 827 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: Like we have to create new messages, so we have 828 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: a new lens to look through. And that's the power 829 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,439 Speaker 1: of a lot of people's therapy. It's like, well, there's 830 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,239 Speaker 1: nothing really wrong with my life, so I don't need 831 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,680 Speaker 1: to go to therapy. I have a great work life, 832 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 1: I have a great husband, but I feel like crap 833 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,719 Speaker 1: about myself. But it's just because there's something like, you know, 834 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: inherently flawed about my thought process, like no, there's not. 835 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,479 Speaker 1: It's because you were taught that message back in the day, 836 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: and we've got to go figure out that that's not true. 837 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: I think that is important to note. That gives a 838 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 1: lot of power and the people that look like they 839 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: have their lives together and don't I'm using air quotes, 840 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: but deserve or need to go to therapy might need 841 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: to go to therapy because a lot of it's the 842 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: inner work that we're doing. It's not changing what your 843 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: life necessarily always looks like on the outside. That's what 844 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: it feels like on the inside. You've offered the love 845 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,800 Speaker 1: and security that you need to to your current self, 846 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,040 Speaker 1: but have you ever actually offered it to you who 847 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: didn't get it? You know, to the wounded you who 848 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: experienced the lab. Let's talk about group therapy and why 849 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: that because we talk about one on one individual therapy 850 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: all day long on this podcast, and I think there's 851 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: a lot of power and working with a group of people. 852 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,320 Speaker 1: So let's talk about that and how that comes into 853 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: play with you guys and what you do and trauma 854 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,320 Speaker 1: in general. I'm thinking about, you know, if you could 855 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: figure it out or heal by yourself, all inside your 856 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: own head, then you would and then that doesn't work. 857 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 1: So you go see an individual therapist, and now you 858 00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: have another person in the room who can offer some 859 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: safety and some security and acceptance and another body and 860 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: brain to work through it and think about then if 861 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: you've got five other bodies, brains, hearts in the room 862 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,879 Speaker 1: to offer you a sense of support and trust while 863 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,000 Speaker 1: you're looking and walking through maybe some of the most 864 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: painful parts of your life, that is a way to 865 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 1: heal because now we have what we need, love and security, 866 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,000 Speaker 1: and now we can feel the pain and offer it 867 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,320 Speaker 1: something different in that context. I like that because a 868 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,880 Speaker 1: lot of people are like, I'm sure you hear this, 869 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,879 Speaker 1: of why pay you to do this? You wouldn't still 870 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: be in my life if I didn't keep paying you, 871 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,200 Speaker 1: And it's like, well, you're not paying those group members anything. 872 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 1: They're actually paying to be there, right, there's still something 873 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,439 Speaker 1: where there's an unequal dynamic between therapist and client of like, 874 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: this is professional relationship. You are paying me, I'm offering you, 875 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: you know, a service in response, So it's not just 876 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,920 Speaker 1: completely this pure I'm just saying this to you or 877 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,359 Speaker 1: listening to you just because I am a decent human being. Right, 878 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 1: and so give you get that from group members. People 879 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: experience that in twelve step spaces all the time, which 880 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,400 Speaker 1: is just like, we're just a couple of humans with nothing, 881 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,360 Speaker 1: no other labels on us. Besides, you're just a human 882 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 1: and I'm just a human, and you're listening to me 883 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,800 Speaker 1: or you're validating me, or you're saying me too, and 884 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: you don't have to do any of those things. So wow, 885 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 1: what a pure sort of gift of love and security 886 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,560 Speaker 1: that I get to actually absorb, which is what we 887 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,000 Speaker 1: hope for and most of our wounding situations is our 888 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,240 Speaker 1: families to just love us just because right or whoever. 889 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,360 Speaker 1: It is, not because they have to, but because they 890 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 1: choose to. And that's so validating. And not to feel 891 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,319 Speaker 1: isolated in what happened to you or what you went 892 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,920 Speaker 1: through your therapist isn't always. Sometimes we do when it's appropriate, 893 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 1: but we're usually not going to go to the details 894 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: of our stuff. And in a group you get to 895 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 1: hear the details of other people's stuff that they wouldn't 896 00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: tell you that on the street, and so you assume 897 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,799 Speaker 1: that you're the only one that feels this way or 898 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: has gone through this, and it is really cool to 899 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 1: be able to realize that you're not. In the beginning 900 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 1: we talked about experiences and how you need new experiences. Well, 901 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:56,359 Speaker 1: you can do experiential therapy one on one totally, and 902 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: it's a different ballgame when you're in a group. So 903 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: what is experience trull therapy because I don't even think 904 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,320 Speaker 1: we've really talked about that. But in a nutshell, you 905 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 1: don't have to give like a in a nutshell, Well, 906 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,520 Speaker 1: referencing what I said before about the left brain and 907 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,120 Speaker 1: the right brain and how in harmful or traumatic experiences, 908 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: our left brain goes offline and our right brain is 909 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,120 Speaker 1: overwhelmed and kind of does the work of surviving the 910 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: moment for us. Traditional talk therapy primarily works with the 911 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,719 Speaker 1: left brain, which is not where our feelings and our 912 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: body sensations kind of live. And so experiential therapy is 913 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,000 Speaker 1: a whole umbrella of a lot of different methods that 914 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,720 Speaker 1: get the right brain online and get your feelings online, 915 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,359 Speaker 1: get your body online, and then with that in the 916 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,560 Speaker 1: context of a group, lets you have a different experience 917 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,480 Speaker 1: with your whole self online so that you can really 918 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,720 Speaker 1: absorb it and metabolize it. One thing that Terrace says 919 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,640 Speaker 1: often is that experiential therapy makes what is unconscious or 920 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,600 Speaker 1: or not quite in my awareness, it can bring it 921 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: to my consciousness so that I can work with it. 922 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,920 Speaker 1: Feelings like it's such an abstract and tangible, floating in 923 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: the air sort of thing. And people often think of 924 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,320 Speaker 1: experiential as an abstract modality, but it actually makes things 925 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: so much more real and tangible. What are examples of 926 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:14,799 Speaker 1: how you might do that in a group? Like what 927 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,880 Speaker 1: does experiential therapy look like in a group? So you 928 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,080 Speaker 1: might be a range of of doing something experiential just together, 929 00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,839 Speaker 1: so like a shared body exercise or a shared groaning, 930 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: or a share like or just like what's vocalized or 931 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,360 Speaker 1: body expression of this particular thing and everybody kind of 932 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 1: gets to do that weird thing together, or something as 933 00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 1: like obvious or more specific as a psychodrama, which is 934 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: kind of basically re enactment, which also can sound really scary, 935 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: but there are a lot of scales of what that 936 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,959 Speaker 1: can look like. It can it can be a little 937 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,920 Speaker 1: more abstract if you need it to be. We're not 938 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,840 Speaker 1: going to have people like hitting well if that's what 939 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 1: happened to you. So it's just kind of like bringing 940 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 1: into real life whatever trauma you experienced and is is 941 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: safe of a way is as we can. Psychodrama is 942 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,719 Speaker 1: one of the coolest things I've ever been a part of, ever, 943 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,319 Speaker 1: And I remember learning how, like learning how to do it, 944 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 1: and I was so terrified. I was like, what do 945 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,360 Speaker 1: I do? What? Like? What do I say? And the 946 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 1: cool thing is we don't really have to do that 947 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 1: much because the you, the client, the human like actually 948 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,839 Speaker 1: figures it out and we kind of guide you. But 949 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: the cool thing about that for people who are like 950 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: I still don't get what psychodrama is, it's also a 951 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,840 Speaker 1: way to re enact in a safe, a safe way 952 00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,480 Speaker 1: and allowing that part of you that feels like you're 953 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: twelve or or fifteen or thirty seven, whenever that event happens, 954 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,160 Speaker 1: to go back and speak up for yourself and give 955 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,919 Speaker 1: that version of you what you needed because nobody else 956 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: in that event gave it to you. It's I'm getting chills. 957 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 1: It's so cool. And you can't do that with just 958 00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 1: your therapist and you in a session. Yeah, to really 959 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 1: elicit the actual response of nurturing that you needed and 960 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 1: the release of whatever you needed to release, and and 961 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:11,120 Speaker 1: to have another body that isn't just your therapy then 962 00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: come in and potentially play a role that you didn't 963 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,600 Speaker 1: have show up for you in that moment to love 964 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 1: and care about you, or to give you guidance, or 965 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: to stand up for you whatever. You know, you get 966 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,960 Speaker 1: to have all these bodies and all these resources available 967 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,880 Speaker 1: to you. And you know what I do like to 968 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,759 Speaker 1: say a lot to clients especially is the body and 969 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,719 Speaker 1: our emotional self doesn't know the difference between then and now. 970 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,040 Speaker 1: It's the reason why we continue to have these anxiety 971 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,400 Speaker 1: crazy responses. Which also means that the healing can be 972 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 1: absorbed in the part of you that was then as 973 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,840 Speaker 1: if it's alive right there in that room today. So 974 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: people think, how is it going to heal that part 975 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,719 Speaker 1: of me? It's already done, right. We hear that a 976 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,400 Speaker 1: lot trauma is alive in your body. Yes, and so 977 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,239 Speaker 1: if we attune you in all the way into the 978 00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,839 Speaker 1: part of you that was experiencing it, and we get 979 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,960 Speaker 1: really get to give part what you needed, especially from 980 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 1: someone who just like is there and like it's like 981 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,920 Speaker 1: I will do this part role for you, um and 982 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: like just holds you or says f you to the 983 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,319 Speaker 1: person who hurt you or whatever, then your body will 984 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,840 Speaker 1: absorb that and it changes, it will change its makeup 985 00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,640 Speaker 1: by getting to experience in a new response. And if 986 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,719 Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you're like, what the hell 987 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:29,400 Speaker 1: is this voodoo? Like, it's real, It's really freaking real 988 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,960 Speaker 1: and if you let it work, it will work. You 989 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,759 Speaker 1: gotta believe in it. Teary and Hannah both they're in Nashville, 990 00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: the Nashural area. So if you live in Nashville and 991 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,759 Speaker 1: you're like, I like these people, these people sound like 992 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,920 Speaker 1: they have something that I need and I want, and 993 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,480 Speaker 1: I want to at least or I want to just 994 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: at least try. This is one of the ways that 995 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 1: you can get in contact with them and actually get 996 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,640 Speaker 1: to work with them and not just hear them talk 997 00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,359 Speaker 1: on the podcast. So what do you guys offer here? 998 00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 1: We offer an experiential group that is focused on trauma processing. 999 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,520 Speaker 1: So we feel so strongly about both addressing trauma and 1000 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,000 Speaker 1: doing that in a group setting that we've created a 1001 00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,359 Speaker 1: program to do that. So we're starting our next one 1002 00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: in January. We're going to do that with women and 1003 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,719 Speaker 1: do it as COVID safely as we can. It's in 1004 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: person it's not virtual. It will be in person for sure. Again, 1005 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,640 Speaker 1: you have to be in this area to be able 1006 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,759 Speaker 1: to attend it. Um how do they contact you if 1007 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,200 Speaker 1: they want to be in that group? We have an email? 1008 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,279 Speaker 1: What is the email Pearls of Recovery, which is kind 1009 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,080 Speaker 1: of our group name, UM, our program name, our business name, 1010 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 1: whatever the right words are for that um so, Pearls 1011 00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: of Recovery. So Pearls of Recovery dot com is our 1012 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:42,840 Speaker 1: website which has all of our contact information on it. 1013 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,839 Speaker 1: Pearls of Recovery at gmail dot com is our direct 1014 00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: email address, and Instagram and Instagram is Pearls of Recovery. Okay, 1015 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,839 Speaker 1: So I'll put all the all of that information will 1016 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,600 Speaker 1: be in the notes. So if you're like, uh, what 1017 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,359 Speaker 1: they'll I'll put links in the notes and you guys 1018 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,200 Speaker 1: can go click on it. But if you are somebody 1019 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,560 Speaker 1: who's resonating with the stuff and you feel stuck in 1020 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,759 Speaker 1: your own heeling process, I highly recommend you go at 1021 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: least check that out. They're can at least contact you 1022 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:07,960 Speaker 1: and get more information to see if it's something that 1023 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,960 Speaker 1: can fit their budget or their schedule or their own needs. 1024 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,040 Speaker 1: Highly recommended. So females in Nashville. I would also just 1025 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,000 Speaker 1: add that it's a set ten week time frame, so 1026 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't go on and on forever, and that you know, 1027 00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,840 Speaker 1: I think can be sometimes a weird feeling about therapy 1028 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 1: is like, how do I know when I'm done? Do 1029 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,440 Speaker 1: I have to do this forever? When am I healed? 1030 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,040 Speaker 1: And just because you finish the group doesn't mean you 1031 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,560 Speaker 1: don't need to continue in some other way. But it 1032 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,200 Speaker 1: is targeted and focused in a way that I think 1033 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,600 Speaker 1: can feel more like I know what I'm going to 1034 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,719 Speaker 1: work on, and we have it set up in in 1035 00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,960 Speaker 1: such a way that you phase through to where you 1036 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,960 Speaker 1: at least feel like you've moved to a different phase 1037 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,759 Speaker 1: of your process and to close or at least to 1038 00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,759 Speaker 1: pause or do whatever you need to do at the end. 1039 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: So okay, awesome, Well, thank you guys for coming. I 1040 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,279 Speaker 1: enjoyed this. I always love having another therapists on here 1041 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,799 Speaker 1: because then I always get to learn stuff too, So 1042 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,120 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you.