Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories, done.
Speaker 3: Done, Yay, that's messed up.
Speaker 4: An SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: My name is Lisa Traeger and I'm Kara Klank and
Speaker 1: every week we hit you with a recap of a
Speaker 1: Law and Order SVU episode.
Speaker 4: The True Crime.
Speaker 1: It's based on an interview with an actor from the
Speaker 1: show So Much And.
Speaker 2: I guess me chewing. I guess that's become a thing.
Speaker 2: I've been eating. I've gotten too comfortable. I've had some bagels.
Speaker 2: I thought it'd be edited out. It will never happen again.
Speaker 1: Hopefully nobody has completely quit based off of one chewing incident.
Speaker 4: But I fail between my legs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh, it's today, this day, this episode's
Speaker 1: coming out.
Speaker 4: It's May twentieth. Where's the fucking time going in?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 4: Union Hall tonight.
Speaker 2: If you're listening to this in New York, I'm doing
Speaker 2: show Intel tonight.
Speaker 1: So that's kind of fun. Go watch Union Hall, one
Speaker 1: of the greatest venues.
Speaker 2: Fun show really, and you know, I have so much
Speaker 2: nostalgia because I remember moving to New York and like
Speaker 2: when I got a spot at the Union Hall on
Speaker 2: any show that was like the biggest deal. I better
Speaker 2: kill it, Like it was just so kind of I mean,
Speaker 2: I still really respect it. But now I'm just emailing
Speaker 2: getting my days. It just feels so cool walking on in,
Speaker 2: not taking not now that I don't take it seriously,
Speaker 2: but I feel so comfortable.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 1: Now you're in there. Now you're on their roster. You're
Speaker 1: a rotating show there. But uh yeah, that's that's fun.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We just had Mother's Day. Yeah, yeah, so tell me
Speaker 2: yeah Mother's Day.
Speaker 4: No, it was fun.
Speaker 1: I the day before Mother's Day, I took five children
Speaker 1: to a birthday party, two of my own and three additional.
Speaker 2: Well this was like, this is a huge moment because
Speaker 2: as this podcast was starting or our tour, like back
Speaker 2: in the day, your friend took a bunch of kids
Speaker 2: to the Shad Aquarium and you were like, how is
Speaker 2: she doing it?
Speaker 4: Oh my god, And now now it's you.
Speaker 1: My friend took her four children and my rosie to
Speaker 1: the Shad Aquarium, and now I'm doing it. I still
Speaker 1: think her thing is a bigger feat because she had
Speaker 1: a tiny baby.
Speaker 4: I had like a bunch of kids my kid's age.
Speaker 4: I just said.
Speaker 1: So, it was like this big music festival in La
Speaker 1: called Just Like Heaven that has like Rylo Kylie and
Speaker 1: Vampire Weekend.
Speaker 4: It's like very millennial focus.
Speaker 2: Well, I saw a lot of memes of like how
Speaker 2: tired millennials are after one night at music.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're like e for ryle o' kylie, I'm dying. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I was basically watching two of my friend's kids
Speaker 1: that were going and was like, oh, you're going, I'll
Speaker 1: take them to the birthday party. So I took her
Speaker 1: to this birthday party. It's a hundred fucking degrees out.
Speaker 1: The minute we get there. One kid just keeps going,
Speaker 1: Can we leave? Can we leave? The other kid keeps
Speaker 1: slipping through my fingers. I can't find him the whole time.
Speaker 1: My husband's with me. By the way, it's not me alone.
Speaker 1: Another reason why my friend is more powerful than me.
Speaker 1: She did it by herself. And uh, it's Pokemon themed.
Speaker 1: There's so much Pokemon card training going on. Kids are
Speaker 1: losing Pokemon cards that are extremely important to them, Like.
Speaker 4: Hops, does anybody see my rainbow peek?
Speaker 2: A chew.
Speaker 1: Like everyone's freaking out. I'm like, it's so hot, we're melting.
Speaker 1: But it was fine. So then I return one child
Speaker 1: to his home. I bring the other two home for
Speaker 1: a sleepover. They're sleeping at my house. They've never done
Speaker 1: a sleepover. They are sleeping over, and this is this
Speaker 1: is these kids first sleepover. Yes, these kids have never
Speaker 1: slept over. Wow, their brothers their brothers, so they have
Speaker 1: each other whatever, but like and they know me, but
Speaker 1: like you know there, so it's their first stepover. But
Speaker 1: it goes great. And so I woke up on Mother's
Speaker 1: Day with four children in my house. So then their
Speaker 1: mom picks them up. We went to Delia as a
Speaker 1: place you and I like for a little. I think
Speaker 1: is an understatement. I would say love.
Speaker 2: I would say still the best breakfast burrito I've ever had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it, and I hash Browns are like
Speaker 1: perfectly crunchy. I think that's what I miss and like
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 4: I got to get a hash brown. No, it's in them,
Speaker 4: it's in the potato.
Speaker 2: But I don't do the burrito. I love the I
Speaker 2: forgot you're an enchilada girl. I only have gotten the
Speaker 2: breakfast burritos. There I get the enchiladas in a Beigos
Speaker 2: and Pasadena.
Speaker 1: Oh right, yeah, but the but but I have had
Speaker 1: those burritos and the hash brown inside is a fucking
Speaker 1: game changer.
Speaker 4: I love it so much.
Speaker 1: But I just like going it's a cash only casual place.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to some fancy ass brunch
Speaker 1: where my kids are going to be annoying.
Speaker 2: It's not like in a deeper way, it's also part
Speaker 2: of the old world of this like gentrified neighborhood, you know.
Speaker 2: So it's also like it's just as like charm from
Speaker 2: a different era and it's just so good, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can't get it on Postma.
Speaker 4: It's like get your ass over there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta go get it, get your cash out.
Speaker 4: So true.
Speaker 1: And it's cash, which almost any other place it's cash,
Speaker 1: like what is this a drug front? But this place,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, they just do cash. They're from
Speaker 1: another time. But yeah, like it was great because I
Speaker 1: like last year, I think we did Highland Cafe for
Speaker 1: my birthday, Like I just want to go somewhere where
Speaker 1: it's like no reservation, just give me a number, bring
Speaker 1: me my food, whatever. And then I got my afternoon off,
Speaker 1: I went to this nice pool at the at this
Speaker 1: hotel which you gotta name names. Oh, I went to
Speaker 1: the pool at the Langham I thought in Pasadena, which
Speaker 1: they have doubled. They have a second pool now they
Speaker 1: have a new saltwater pool. So and it's kind of
Speaker 1: fun to be at the pool. I'm just gonna say,
Speaker 1: it's kind of fun to be at the pool with
Speaker 1: a friend and see the moms there with their kids
Speaker 1: and be like, I'm glad that's not me. I'm happy
Speaker 1: that that's how people decide to do their day and
Speaker 1: that they want their kid in a floaty flashing them
Speaker 1: in the pool. And I'm just so happy it's not me.
Speaker 1: For me, that's for me on Mother's Day. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then I went to.
Speaker 4: Go see.
Speaker 1: A comic we are both friends with do an outdoor.
Speaker 1: Our friends are opened. I just saw everything on Instagram.
Speaker 1: But I'm like so curious about the gown, the window,
Speaker 1: the law, Like.
Speaker 2: I am so curious about it all. I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: sure you could shout out who it is. She probably
Speaker 2: wants people.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she's already posted about it. This is Megan Gaily.
Speaker 1: Megan Gaily is like eight months pregnant and is filmed
Speaker 1: a special in her at her house, which I was
Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, I just was like, what's
Speaker 1: that going to look like?
Speaker 4: And then it just really did look beautiful.
Speaker 1: Like she has like a cool view from her house,
Speaker 1: although like she makes fun of it in the special,
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, you can see a Domino's a very
Speaker 1: active train track, Like you know, it's not like we're
Speaker 1: looking at the Hollywood sign, but you are looking at
Speaker 1: like beautiful mountains in California behind her, and it's it
Speaker 1: was as the sun was. And she has a three
Speaker 1: year old and he was up in the window watching it,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean he can't really hear much, but
Speaker 1: like so she's at a certain times she references him
Speaker 1: and is like waving to him and stuff, and that
Speaker 1: was cute.
Speaker 4: But there were like fun girls there that I.
Speaker 1: Liked seeing, and had another glass of wine and someone
Speaker 1: was driving me, which I always love, like, so it
Speaker 1: was it was great and then.
Speaker 2: I love's the Keto good evenings. Someone was driving me.
Speaker 1: I was glad that well because I would have stopped drinking,
Speaker 1: you know, like because I had a couple drinks at
Speaker 1: the pool. But I was okay, and then I was like, well,
Speaker 1: if I go to this thing, I can't really drink anymore.
Speaker 2: And someone drove me that she taped it her on
Speaker 2: Mother's Day. Okay, cool, cool, yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah yeah and yeah, and I actually don't
Speaker 1: know the details of the dress, but I thought it
Speaker 1: looked great, and uh yeah, it was fun we were
Speaker 1: and then yeah it was I didn't know that our
Speaker 1: friend Clark was opening and then he was calling me
Speaker 1: out in the he was calling me out and the
Speaker 1: in his opening the Megan was calling me out for
Speaker 1: having botox in my butt, which I think I've.
Speaker 4: Talked about on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Well, it's so funny because I just did another episode
Speaker 2: of Steph's podcasts and she brought up these like butt cuts,
Speaker 2: like I should know and would know, and I was
Speaker 2: like what and then she goes, well, I just assumed,
Speaker 2: Cara what She goes, I guess it's crazy for me
Speaker 2: to assume. But the Carroa would have told you about
Speaker 2: the butt cut. And then I was like, no, I
Speaker 2: actually do now, rem I've.
Speaker 1: Told you, Yeah you did. I'm sure you buried it
Speaker 1: deep down inside because it's not something you want to
Speaker 1: think about exactly.
Speaker 2: Okay, like I remembered again, but she was very much
Speaker 2: like of course, you know, and I'm like, this.
Speaker 1: Isn't something that I feel so bad for her because
Speaker 1: she's having a really hard time. And it's like I
Speaker 1: know what I was getting myself into, you know, like
Speaker 1: I got pregnant and had a baby.
Speaker 4: That's like kind of where this came from.
Speaker 1: She just like can't get it to go away, and
Speaker 1: like I'm and I are texting about it all the.
Speaker 5: Time, poor thing.
Speaker 2: So you probably see that I am rubbing my head.
Speaker 2: So okay, I will say, in LA, they know how
Speaker 2: to get me. They make Uber blacks only like three
Speaker 2: dollars more expensive, and I'm gonna get it for three dollars.
Speaker 2: I'll sit in an escalade like you got me, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Because in New York, the Uber
Speaker 2: Blacks are like at least half more like twifty percent
Speaker 2: more like it is a luxury. I would say that
Speaker 2: I don't care about. But in LA, and there's more
Speaker 2: professional drivers in New York. I also feel like if
Speaker 2: you get an Uber X, you might get a Toyota
Speaker 2: Corolla with just crumbs, Like you don't know what you're
Speaker 2: gonna get as much. But Anyways, So I was used
Speaker 2: to getting into these big stubs and then I got
Speaker 2: I did get another Uber Black, but it was a
Speaker 2: smaller Lexus. But I've been getting into these fucking suburbans
Speaker 2: and I love the attitude, and so I with all
Speaker 2: my might am hopping in it's a way smaller car.
Speaker 2: I bang my head with such force on them the
Speaker 2: car door rim that. I mean, I truly I needed
Speaker 2: a few more, like a real full force bang.
Speaker 4: On the door, on the metal on the car.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's gonna bruise because I already feel
Speaker 2: like it's just risen. I mean, I just and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: I really have an attitude getting into a suburban, Like
Speaker 2: I really prepared.
Speaker 1: For Chevy level clearance and it just was not there.
Speaker 1: Oh auchi, Oh that sucks. Yeah, but today I also
Speaker 1: the Uber driver. I did take a red eye everyone.
Speaker 2: I also put a list of movies but didn't write
Speaker 2: that it was for a flight, and I was like
Speaker 2: what should I watch? And then people are like, have
Speaker 2: you never seen hocus Pocus? And it's like, oh, I
Speaker 2: was not clear. I have seen some of these movies
Speaker 2: like this, you know, I'm like this debating what I'm
Speaker 2: in the mood for ye, but I make a list.
Speaker 2: I don't forget all of them. There's just so many
Speaker 2: movies to choose from. Yeah and yeah, well, first of
Speaker 2: all dedication. She took a red eye and she worked
Speaker 2: and we're shooting this podcast. Well I slept good four
Speaker 2: and a half as I have my iced coffee.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's fine. I did also get upgraded to
Speaker 2: Delta one, which changes up. Oh wow, that's nice. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I did my first time at the Delta one lounge.
Speaker 2: I had a new naggy fucking hand roll. And it's
Speaker 2: all table service. And it's not prosecco. It's not sparkling wine. Honey,
Speaker 2: it's champagne. It is champagne. It's from the Champagne region
Speaker 2: of France. Yes, I had a buttered popcorn. Sunday, I
Speaker 2: had yellow toe not. I had some sort of sashimi
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what kid like in a sauce.
Speaker 2: And then I had a two no avocado role as well,
Speaker 2: but you could get like steak fries.
Speaker 4: It's all table service. I feel stupid.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know there was So there's a separate
Speaker 1: Delta one that's different.
Speaker 2: They're just like your own security, your own everything. And
Speaker 2: I've heard of it, but I usually get upgraded when
Speaker 2: I'm already there, like I'm usually playing a game where
Speaker 2: I'm like, am I gonna get it or not? But
Speaker 2: I did use my regional upgrades, so I got upgraded
Speaker 2: that morning, so I knew. So I went an hour
Speaker 2: and a half early to sit in the lounge because
Speaker 2: I've heard such lovely things about it, so I got
Speaker 2: to the airport super early so I could experience it.
Speaker 1: I feel like the last thing that you have not
Speaker 1: done is for in terms of flying commercial, is that
Speaker 1: service where they pick you up and drive you on
Speaker 1: the tarmac.
Speaker 4: Well they did it for me that one time.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Delta three sixty is a goal like Bob
Speaker 2: the Drag Queen has it and CEOs, but Delta three sixty. Basically,
Speaker 2: I was taking a flight and on the jet bridge
Speaker 2: during connection, someone was holding my name and I go, wait,
Speaker 2: that's me, and he goes, come with me, And so
Speaker 2: I got in a Porsche on the tarmac and he's
Speaker 2: taking me to the another gate and I go, what's
Speaker 2: going on here?
Speaker 4: And he goes, well, it's for Delta three sixty.
Speaker 2: But we don't have any cause it's and he goes,
Speaker 2: but you're the next highest, and I go, okay, well
Speaker 2: how do I get Delta three sixty? He goes, I
Speaker 2: don't even know the answer to that. He's like, it's
Speaker 2: mostly CEOs business people. And then Bob the drag Queen
Speaker 2: on a podcast said he has it. So that's all
Speaker 2: I know. I think you have to just be buying
Speaker 2: first class multiple times a week every week, like yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's like that, or be Kathy Bates, Like
Speaker 2: I don't know, Kathy Bates getting wet.
Speaker 1: They're like, we actually can't have this. It's a public
Speaker 1: hazard to have her like out in the open. It's
Speaker 1: going to cause a huge block at DSA. I mean
Speaker 1: I watched her, not the female matt Lock.
Speaker 2: But like when I saw her, I watched her the
Speaker 2: whole time, Like it's like she I she didn't go,
Speaker 2: she didn't move one thing, order one thing without me noticing.
Speaker 2: I saw what she was reading when she was reading
Speaker 2: on what like, yeah, I watched her, so like I
Speaker 2: do get wanting. But anyway, yeah, wait oh but the
Speaker 2: guy today, so it's like early I'm in the car
Speaker 2: and he had homemade food and he seemed like like
Speaker 2: physically Asian, but he I could I could tell he
Speaker 2: speaks Russian.
Speaker 4: And the food was like of the homeland, like I
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 2: And he had all this tupperware and he was offering
Speaker 2: me the food, and I wish our world was a
Speaker 2: better place because it looked so good. But I was like,
Speaker 2: I can't eat I got yeah, yeah, but it smells.
Speaker 2: He's like, well, I feel bad eating it. I don't know,
Speaker 2: you should eat it. You're like at work at five
Speaker 2: in the morning. I'm like, I'm fine, but it looked
Speaker 2: so flakey and good. It did look good. I just
Speaker 2: wish the world was like, yeah, a little different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, that's that's so true. Wait, tell me
Speaker 1: about what you were doing with what you just recently did.
Speaker 1: I want to hear about this.
Speaker 2: If there's any students, I doubt it though, but there
Speaker 2: was a girl in a slip not shirt. Maybe she'll
Speaker 2: check this out. I did University of New Mexico and Albuquerque,
Speaker 2: and I brought Jared Goldstein to open and you guys,
Speaker 2: it's a Pali Society hotel, but it was called Arrive.
Speaker 4: It only opened in February. I would go there on vacation.
Speaker 2: I'm telling you. The pool, Like the hotel's so fucking cute.
Speaker 2: Everything was so cute, but the food. And they had
Speaker 2: a jukebox that was free, but old school style was CDs,
Speaker 2: so it's like more like cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was CDs.
Speaker 2: It moved slow, it was free, and we sat at
Speaker 2: the bar and it was just a culinary masterpiece with
Speaker 2: Albuquerque kind of like a portable rices. Everything was well balanced, delicious,
Speaker 2: like a mescal pina colada, not too sweet, frozen drink
Speaker 2: like le She's like really amazing. And then in the morning,
Speaker 2: I like worked out by the pool, had iced coffees, delicious,
Speaker 2: like we had every single meal there. I had dinner there,
Speaker 2: breakfast there, pool snacks, happy hour, and another dinner.
Speaker 4: Yeah wow, Like yeah arrive.
Speaker 2: If you work for Pali's society, I feel like give
Speaker 2: me a black card, Like.
Speaker 1: Okay, I love I become the delta of her hotels.
Speaker 2: Let's go, because we were like looking up other places
Speaker 2: to go, but it was like such a vibe. We
Speaker 2: loved our bartender, her name was Sherry, shout out girl.
Speaker 4: Like we just had fun.
Speaker 2: The staff newest the next day, I mean, because no
Speaker 2: one was really there it's a new hotel, and so
Speaker 2: we really felt like celebrities because we wanted a white Lotus.
Speaker 2: It's like the poor We did a poor version of
Speaker 2: white Lotus. Right. We didn't leave, we didn't see the culture.
Speaker 2: We just stayed there. But yeah, had a good time
Speaker 2: and we thought a lot Well, we've slept in the
Speaker 2: same hotel room, so maybe you would appreciate this too.
Speaker 2: So I'm in the further bed. I want it freezing
Speaker 2: and like the fan on. And so at one point
Speaker 2: Jared looks at me and he goes, wait, it's like
Speaker 2: raining and cold outside.
Speaker 4: I go, yeah.
Speaker 2: He goes, why is the air conditioning on? I go, well,
Speaker 2: just to sleep, like, I need a fan. I need
Speaker 2: cold air. Like, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, we're switching beds. And then he
Speaker 2: said in the middle of the night he wanted to
Speaker 2: be sneaky. So he wakes up and like turns off
Speaker 2: the fan and gets back in his bed.
Speaker 1: He says, I woke up immediately. He goes, not even
Speaker 1: a minute went by. That's like one time I woke up.
Speaker 2: He said, he just heard thee pet like he heard
Speaker 2: me clicking and clocking onto the thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one time I woke up to go to the
Speaker 1: bathroom and you had you know, Seinfeld or something, and
Speaker 1: I just space barred it. Just I was like, she's asleep,
Speaker 1: she's not gonna need this anymore. And you did wake
Speaker 1: up put it back on.
Speaker 5: You.
Speaker 1: Definitely, your subconscious body knows what you need, even when
Speaker 1: you're sleeping.
Speaker 4: I know, but I need I need therapy. That's not good.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean it's probably the kind of thing that.
Speaker 1: If you actually just forced yourself for a few days,
Speaker 1: you'd stop.
Speaker 2: But like, you know, whatever, it's just too it's just
Speaker 2: too much. Yeah, and I'm ass going I need the cold,
Speaker 2: cold air.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 1: I used to do that though, Like I grew up
Speaker 1: in the Northeast, and I used to put the ac
Speaker 1: on sometimes in the winter because I liked it so
Speaker 1: cold in my room so I could be cozy under
Speaker 1: my comforter. Like that's that's not a weird. I used
Speaker 1: to do that in science you sleep better but it's cold.
Speaker 2: But basically, like any college gig, you never know what
Speaker 2: you're gonna get.
Speaker 4: And I would see the student government was incredible.
Speaker 2: This guy Andrew, you know, hopefully he uses his powers
Speaker 2: for good, not evil, but he had he is everyone
Speaker 2: followed this man's lead.
Speaker 4: I mean he was in charge of everything.
Speaker 2: And then also was like and if you could believe,
Speaker 2: but I'm also the vice president of our fraternity, and
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, no, we're believing.
Speaker 4: He was in charge.
Speaker 2: But it was a lecture hall for about seven hundred students,
Speaker 2: and I would say there was max thirty students.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's always that's every that's so many.
Speaker 2: College and half of them worked at student government. Half
Speaker 2: of them brought me like they were part of the
Speaker 2: club that had to be there. So then and then
Speaker 2: there was two like a couple that was definitely in
Speaker 2: their sixties and I'm like, and he was in school
Speaker 2: for music.
Speaker 4: So that was like fun.
Speaker 2: But afterwards, you know, we were hanging out and Jared said,
Speaker 2: I think you taught a lot of those kids a
Speaker 2: new way to behave He's like, I don't think they
Speaker 2: thought or do that you could talk like that. He's like,
Speaker 2: you really went out. Yeah, they had. I had a
Speaker 2: good time. Like That's the thing. I would rather thirty
Speaker 2: than seven hundred.
Speaker 4: Were there were there were there limits?
Speaker 1: Were they like they don't talk about X y Z
Speaker 1: because they do that at colleges a lot.
Speaker 2: No, but I kept asking about certain they were being
Speaker 2: like shy about certain things, and then they were like, well,
Speaker 2: we're a dry cans. And then afterwards the faculty like
Speaker 2: person of the club was in the back, who's in
Speaker 2: charge of all greek life or campus, and so they
Speaker 2: couldn't they had to be good boys.
Speaker 5: Yeah and go yeah right.
Speaker 2: But I would say, culturally, what was weird that you
Speaker 2: might be shocked at promise rings?
Speaker 4: Crosses?
Speaker 2: It was because I know, for some reason, you know,
Speaker 2: I never know how old anyone is or what's going on.
Speaker 2: I do notice everyone's wedding ring like I do notice
Speaker 2: I'm usually because and jewelry because I just saw someone
Speaker 2: I go ear rings and they were like, oh I
Speaker 2: just got my earspurs two weeks ago.
Speaker 4: Like for some reason, that is something I notice.
Speaker 2: I'll be like, yeah, you're engaged or like just last week,
Speaker 2: like I I'm on it. And so I see this
Speaker 2: young girl who's I think only a sophomore, you know,
Speaker 2: So I go, what's going on? Here? I go, you're engaged,
Speaker 2: and she goes, it's a promise ring. And then these
Speaker 2: other two girls go, ah, you finally got it and
Speaker 2: then they're all like screaming and they all have promise rings.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's Mormon down there, isn't it. None
Speaker 2: of these people were white, but I guess like you
Speaker 2: can be not white and a Mormon, but it's not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like I don't know, but there were crosses, Like the
Speaker 2: guy in charge had a cross on his truck.
Speaker 4: This the I started my crowd.
Speaker 2: We're talking to like this couple with crosses necklaces. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the youth, because the youth aren't fucking, they're not drinking,
Speaker 2: they're not going out.
Speaker 4: You know, that is a real reality.
Speaker 1: And I just spread something about how like, you know,
Speaker 1: religion has been on decline in our country for a
Speaker 1: really long time, and it's kind of the decline is
Speaker 1: kind of leveling out because of young people. I think
Speaker 1: a lot of young people are becoming religious like in
Speaker 1: ways that they weren't a generation ago. They were like
Speaker 1: rebelling against that. So ooh, a promise ring, baby, you
Speaker 1: don't know who you want to marry when you're nineteen
Speaker 1: ten years old.
Speaker 2: And sometime of it. So Jared as a friend who's
Speaker 2: a midwife. She does midwife in Albuquerque, so she came
Speaker 2: and met us at the white Lotus.
Speaker 4: Okay, and at the off white Lotus. I'm calling it.
Speaker 2: So but it was funny because Jared was so shocked
Speaker 2: at my question, but because of just like the world
Speaker 2: and gender. But I was like, I go, how many
Speaker 2: bad partners and fathers do you see? And she goes
Speaker 2: oh all the time constantly, and Jared was like, well really,
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, like you thought I asked
Speaker 2: that just because I knew the answer. I knew the
Speaker 2: answer before I even and she goes, the issue is
Speaker 2: there's a lot of teen pregnancy down there, like people
Speaker 2: people are young having kids, and like it's older people.
Speaker 4: But he yeah, she goes at that, like one in
Speaker 4: ten are normal. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One guy brought a TV with video games. Of course,
Speaker 2: of course you got a game sleeping.
Speaker 1: You gotta game sleep, you gotta yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I had this time in my life.
Speaker 2: I liked seeing the kids. I like, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes there are these weekends where I'm just like at
Speaker 2: this hotel bar being like, wow, I'm so grateful I
Speaker 2: got like, what a fun couple days, yet got to
Speaker 2: converse with the youth.
Speaker 1: It's so funny though, college shows are like just I
Speaker 1: think it's like a part of neperty.
Speaker 4: It's a part of comedy.
Speaker 1: That I don't think a lot of people ever like.
Speaker 2: Consider how because at the end they are I go,
Speaker 2: does anyone want advice? And one guy in the middle
Speaker 2: ent no, and yeah, of course, Like I'm I'm at
Speaker 2: a lecture hall and no one's here, Like of course
Speaker 2: you don't think that you want my advice?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like it's weird, Like I've done I've done
Speaker 1: college shows that are hugely attended and college shows that
Speaker 1: are twelve people in their pajama pants that like, honestly
Speaker 1: they came to get food and they just saw you
Speaker 1: talking and they kind of stopped, you know, Like it's
Speaker 1: like it's such a crapshoot. The colleges are like the
Speaker 1: cultures of different colleges are always so different, and also
Speaker 1: like they're just so young, like most mostly I would
Speaker 1: say it's freshmen that go to these shows. Freshmen I've
Speaker 1: never seen comedy before ever, and they've barely seen comedy
Speaker 1: and they've barely developed. Like not to I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to like, like, you know, denigrate the use, but I
Speaker 1: saw David Tell at eighteen, I wish I could go back.
Speaker 2: In time because I remember loving it. I remember certain jokes.
Speaker 2: Obviously I was He's still my favorite, but I was like,
Speaker 2: was I laughing? Like I wonder if he had fun
Speaker 2: that night or not. But it was a basketball arena.
Speaker 4: We were younger.
Speaker 1: I don't know about you watching it, but when we
Speaker 1: were younger, stand up comedy was like on TV a
Speaker 1: lot more like I was watching well, I was watching
Speaker 1: specials on HBO.
Speaker 2: They watched it differently though they just watch it on TikTok.
Speaker 2: So it's less quality of people, I would say, not
Speaker 2: in a way like I obviously love tons of people's clips,
Speaker 2: but to get on TV was a barrier of entry,
Speaker 2: whether the industry was right or not, and it's not.
Speaker 2: You do have to work, like you had to work
Speaker 2: for probably five to ten years to get on Comedy
Speaker 2: Central and so there. Yeah, we watched really good half
Speaker 2: hours and really good comedians that are like I would
Speaker 2: say ninety percent of the people that had half hours
Speaker 2: are still working or eighty percent or something or in
Speaker 2: some capacity. Yeah right, yeah, yeah, But like I would,
Speaker 2: I would go through those lists and see, like all
Speaker 2: the people that did the like what was the Gotham
Speaker 2: Nightly Show. What Liva Gotham Gotha that a big vers credit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that was a big deal.
Speaker 4: He came to New York.
Speaker 1: He had done that from Chicago and he came to
Speaker 1: New York and was like, I'm I'm big shit.
Speaker 4: I did live at Gotham and New York let him.
Speaker 1: Know very quickly that that was not true, Like they
Speaker 1: were like, actually, you get.
Speaker 4: That into the line now, sir.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just funny, Like just I think that
Speaker 1: eighteen and nineteen year olds are completely very smart. It's
Speaker 1: just like in a lot of places, they haven't had
Speaker 1: any life experience yet. So you're like, you know when
Speaker 1: you don't get you know, you do this or like
Speaker 1: you know, your first apartment, and they're like, no, we don't,
Speaker 1: we don't know anything.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we don't know anything. You know. Like I
Speaker 4: had to do a high school show once.
Speaker 1: I did to a school for high school seniors, and
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, they've had like zero life experience
Speaker 1: except for like playing sports and like you know, trying
Speaker 1: to get into college. Listen, let's get started. We have
Speaker 1: a big episode today. As always www dot That's messed
Speaker 1: up Live dot Com takes you to Lisa's website page
Speaker 1: with all of her tour dates, our merch our promo.
Speaker 2: Come in Atlanta. I think I'm in Charlotte. I mean
Speaker 2: I'm in places.
Speaker 1: He's all over, she's bouncing around babies. But also that
Speaker 1: honeylove code is working again. Somebody messaged me about it.
Speaker 1: It's working again. Just speaking of our codes.
Speaker 2: Oh and I hope everyone had fun playing the Lisa
Speaker 2: Traeger Grids on movie Grid and oh my god, they're
Speaker 2: still they are.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I got it.
Speaker 1: I honestly saw one of them and I go, this
Speaker 1: one looks too hard, Like I saw one of them
Speaker 1: on this.
Speaker 4: This is the thing.
Speaker 1: Whatever it's whenever it's box office gross, I'm like, I'm out,
Speaker 1: like I don't know that stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, Tommy McNamara a good friend, he messaged me, but
Speaker 2: so it's I I said, it's big actors.
Speaker 4: That's why it's hard.
Speaker 2: It's like movies by Bruce Willis that are under one
Speaker 2: hundred million, and he put red. I go so it
Speaker 2: had a sequel. It was a star studded movie with
Speaker 2: a sequel. It's a franchise. Why of course it made
Speaker 2: over one hundred million. I'm like you're a fucking idiot. No,
Speaker 2: I made the mistake of what I did for Sex
Speaker 2: and the City trivia when everyone revolted against me because Doug.
Speaker 2: I messaged Doug Benson to play it and he got
Speaker 2: two things wrong. So if Doug Benson's getting shit wrong,
Speaker 2: I think I did make it too hard. But I
Speaker 2: also need to say I was not the top of
Speaker 2: any of my own like these movie dorks are cheating
Speaker 2: or geniuses. But I only got top two three percent
Speaker 2: and though and then, but I've been playing on every
Speaker 2: I've been playing on Chrome on my phone, then on
Speaker 2: my laptop, like I keep playing it.
Speaker 4: It's mine, like I'm excited. So I cheated up. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I didn't know they were giving you four grids.
Speaker 1: By the way, if you go to moviegrid dot io,
Speaker 1: it's at that hop it's still and there's it is.
Speaker 1: I'm on it right now. There's four grids. That one
Speaker 1: seemed hard to me. Number one seems like I could
Speaker 1: do that one. The Drew barrymore ben still right well.
Speaker 2: And with that one, I did a lot of overlapping,
Speaker 2: like in that all the categories overlap, and I did
Speaker 2: that on purpose, And I'm proud of myself.
Speaker 1: Oh, and I can do this, Julia Sandra Sarah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do that one. I'm gonna do one of three,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna do them right after we're done recording. Okay, guys,
Speaker 1: let's get going. Pandora babies all right, Oh my gosh, guys,
Speaker 1: we're finally here. Stabler goes to Europe.
Speaker 4: The show.
Speaker 1: The episode is here where Stabler goes to brog. We've
Speaker 1: been waiting for it. It's Pandora. It is not a
Speaker 1: weird charm bracelet. Okay, So Pandora, obviously, you know I
Speaker 1: love it.
Speaker 2: I also think about, you know, Lisa vander Pump's daughter,
Speaker 2: and I think about Pandora's Box.
Speaker 4: What is that green?
Speaker 1: Well, yes, so Pandora's Box is the myth of Pandora,
Speaker 1: who was a human created by the gods who then
Speaker 1: opened a box and released all the evils of humanity.
Speaker 1: So when somebody says that's why, I do think it's
Speaker 1: a little bit crazy to name your daughter pans like
Speaker 1: this is a person who, in mythology unleashed evil on
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 4: Pandy.
Speaker 1: I mean, like it sounds beautiful, but like, did you
Speaker 1: ever google it before you did it? I mean, I
Speaker 1: know Pandy's probably a pre Google baby, but like, still
Speaker 1: you check a check a name book, check a name
Speaker 1: book on Pandora.
Speaker 2: It's also well that radio, well Pandora that's after the radio. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can't blame that.
Speaker 1: No, but I just it's funny that just the word
Speaker 1: Pandora just takes up so many there's so much branding
Speaker 1: around Pandora.
Speaker 2: Which is fun You're right, if it's all about misfortune,
Speaker 2: why would it be a jewelry company and a radio company.
Speaker 2: It's just like, I get this. This is about to
Speaker 2: be about sexteen trafficking. So it's like, yeah, well with
Speaker 2: the music seems like misfortune.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the music I can almost get it because it's
Speaker 1: kind of like.
Speaker 4: You're, no, I got it.
Speaker 2: Look it's the Evils of the World, or or it's
Speaker 2: a z am I'm gonna I'm gonna change it to
Speaker 2: or temptations that we can't resist because of curiosity. So
Speaker 2: I guess it's just like you know music, it's so.
Speaker 4: Like music, I kind of get it.
Speaker 1: And it's also like once you listen to one thing
Speaker 1: on Pandora, it leads you to so many other things.
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of that's like the point of Pandora,
Speaker 1: but like the Bracelet Company, I don't get a naming
Speaker 1: your kids.
Speaker 2: Because even in that with Lisa Vander Pumpets like, so,
Speaker 2: my daughter's gonna be so temptatious, No, like, no one
Speaker 2: can resist, sir. I don't know if temptatious is a word.
Speaker 2: Tempting I think is the word that's march temptationous. The
Speaker 2: word temptatious. I think that's an awesome word.
Speaker 1: That's like tempting your that's like attempting, more sexy than tempting,
Speaker 1: like super sexy.
Speaker 4: Tempting is temptatious.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we this episode, you know, we're actually doing
Speaker 1: two in a row from season four. We usually like
Speaker 1: to mix it up, but what are we going to
Speaker 1: do when we get the classics? We get the classics.
Speaker 1: So this one opens as so many episodes of the
Speaker 1: show open. A couple is out for a night on
Speaker 1: the town and has some how had their night completely
Speaker 1: ruined and are bickering and they're about to find out
Speaker 1: that things could get much worse. So he's mad at
Speaker 1: her for not bringing her cell phone. She's like, you
Speaker 1: went out of gas, and she's and it's like a
Speaker 1: phone wouldn't change running out of gas whatever, So she
Speaker 1: goes to some other parked car to see if they
Speaker 1: have a phone. No one's in the car. They start
Speaker 1: walking away, but then they hear whom muffled sounds coming
Speaker 1: from the trunk. They bust it open and it's a
Speaker 1: woman covered in blood whimpering. Okay, so now next scene,
Speaker 1: Benson's there. This woman has been stabbed multiple times, beaten,
Speaker 1: and sexually assaulted with a tire iron, and her lips
Speaker 1: are super glued shut. Like fuck, this is a I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, the early seasons have some of the
Speaker 1: most horrific, like victim fines, Like it's really like blood
Speaker 1: dripping out of the trunk of a car and like
Speaker 1: you know, buttholes glued.
Speaker 4: Shut and stuff like it's really anyway.
Speaker 1: She also stopped breathing once already and they brought her back,
Speaker 1: so she's hanging on by a thread. There's no keys
Speaker 1: or ID, but the car is registered to Meredith McGrath
Speaker 1: and it has bumper damaged. They think this guy probably
Speaker 1: rear ended her then attacked. He didn't take any money
Speaker 1: out of her purse, he just took her license with
Speaker 1: her dunk down address on it.
Speaker 4: Uh oh.
Speaker 1: They book it over to the apartment, which is already
Speaker 1: crawling with cops. There's a dead man in the apartment
Speaker 1: and homicide is already there. Homicide Detective Sam Bishop introduces
Speaker 1: himself to Stabler. He's played by William McNamara, who's had
Speaker 1: a very long career, but for me specifically played an
Speaker 1: extremely scary serial killer in the movie Copycat, which is
Speaker 1: a Cling family classic, which gave me nightmares when I
Speaker 1: had to sleep with my closet clothes for months and years.
Speaker 1: The victim that they are investigating here is Roger McGrath.
Speaker 1: They think he surprised a burglar, and they're pretty sure
Speaker 1: that he wasn't sexually assaulted, so they're kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, why's the panty police here?
Speaker 5: The usual thing we.
Speaker 1: Get from them, and Stabler's like, well, his wife was
Speaker 1: and we think he stole her keys and came here
Speaker 1: for something. And Bishop's like, well, the hard drive of
Speaker 1: the computer is completely ripped out, but the killer didn't
Speaker 1: find everything. He also missed this. It looks like a
Speaker 1: DVD player. I can't really tell, but it's got a
Speaker 1: couple of burned CDs. They're talking about CDs the whole time.
Speaker 1: If you're a young child, that's a pre internet thing
Speaker 1: we used to have.
Speaker 2: Meet Oh my god, if you've seen the trend online
Speaker 2: where parents are going with their kids and saying like
Speaker 2: outdated mean parents sayings leaving the blank them and the
Speaker 2: kids are just like, yeah, it's so cute.
Speaker 4: What is it?
Speaker 2: I brought you into this world and I can and
Speaker 2: it's like feed me like it's all.
Speaker 4: Play with you, ye, play with me? Yeah, thank you?
Speaker 5: So cute.
Speaker 2: It's it is that is it's nice. It's nice. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's so cute. Maybe I'll do it with Rosie. Please
Speaker 2: do it with Rosie. I bet they're all going to
Speaker 2: be gross though.
Speaker 1: She's a real Yeah, she'll be like poop, She'll be like,
Speaker 1: pee on my face.
Speaker 4: She also is when the hammer goes on or turns into.
Speaker 1: A total like psycho, just jumping around and talking in gibberish.
Speaker 1: So anyway, Stabler is like, well, how do you want
Speaker 1: to work this? And Bishop goes, I'll call you if
Speaker 1: I need you, and then Stabler's phone rings and uh oh,
Speaker 1: Meredith just died. So now it's a double homicide and
Speaker 1: these two need to work together, which famously. Stabler is
Speaker 1: not very good at okay. He does not love collaborating
Speaker 1: with other men. So Live now has So then it's
Speaker 1: the credits and now Live has written with Meredith in
Speaker 1: the to the hospital and then she gets quote caught
Speaker 1: up in the er with a child abuse case that
Speaker 1: she happened to grab ale she was there, and so
Speaker 1: she's basically out for the rest of the episode. I
Speaker 1: don't know what's going on with Marishka, but she's not
Speaker 1: in this episode. Stabler is talking things out with the
Speaker 1: gang at the precinct. The husband was clearly killed for
Speaker 1: the hard drive, but they can't figure out why the
Speaker 1: wife's attack happened. The superglued mouth shut is sending a message.
Speaker 1: Craigan says, like she talked when she shouldn't have, and
Speaker 1: they start digging into Meredith's life. So now they're at
Speaker 1: the New York Public Library where this woman worked, and
Speaker 1: this nerdy man is telling them, Oh, everyone loved Meredith,
Speaker 1: and he's like, she was really not likely having an
Speaker 1: affair at work. It's mostly women that work here and
Speaker 1: she didn't swing that way. And the guy goes and
Speaker 1: with the guys not to be a jerk, but I
Speaker 1: don't think she'd risk her marriage on any of these,
Speaker 1: you know, literary losers, so coworker jealousy, anything like that.
Speaker 4: He's like, actually, it's the opposite.
Speaker 1: I almost had to fire her recently because she was
Speaker 1: very distracted at work, taking a lot of sick days
Speaker 1: vacation days. She also changed her email address seven to
Speaker 1: eight times last year. And he's like, they think maybe
Speaker 1: she has some kind of stalker. And it's kind of
Speaker 1: wild that you waited this long in the combo to
Speaker 1: bring that up, sir. Like everyone loved her, by the way,
Speaker 1: stalker comes up way later. She does not have a
Speaker 1: work computer. She always brought her laptop. So now Stabler
Speaker 1: marches into Bishop's office and is like, yo, what's the
Speaker 1: story with the tu give me the laptop report like asap,
Speaker 1: and Bishop's like, I don't have it yet. But Stabler goes,
Speaker 1: what'd you get off those CD? And I love him
Speaker 1: calling them full CD ROMs? And it is so two
Speaker 1: thousand and three. I was still in two thousand and
Speaker 1: three making mix CDs for people. I think for sure
Speaker 1: I was making mixes on side. I was listening to
Speaker 1: things made for me. But as you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: really into technology, so I was not making any Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had like a stereo where you could record tape
Speaker 1: to CD, and I was like and CD to CD
Speaker 1: and I was like obsessed. So it's of course Bishop goes, well,
Speaker 1: we found this on the CD ROMs clicks on a
Speaker 1: button on a computer the size of a shopping cart,
Speaker 1: and now it's child sex abuse images, of course, which
Speaker 1: they call kitty porn.
Speaker 4: But like this is probably what the PURP was looking for.
Speaker 1: And Stabler is pissed that Bishop didn't share this with him,
Speaker 1: and Bishop's like, why did think I needed a report
Speaker 1: to you? And here we go, and I bet this
Speaker 1: is like very real. And why cops do fuck up
Speaker 1: so much is because they all think they're a genius
Speaker 1: and they're going to break the whole thing wide open
Speaker 1: and they don't need anyone to help them. And like
Speaker 1: that's part of I feel like why there's so many
Speaker 1: problems in police bungling big long investigations is like women
Speaker 1: collaborate with each other, usually to be overarching, and men
Speaker 1: try to get the glory for themselves, which is why
Speaker 1: a woman helped bust Ted Bundy and identify who he was.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Stabler explains that Meredith changed her email multiple
Speaker 1: times and it was probably because she didn't want to
Speaker 1: get caught with all this material. This guy was after Meredith,
Speaker 1: not the husband. Bishop goes, you guys want you guys
Speaker 1: ask if you guys want the PERV crap, you can
Speaker 1: have it, and they do.
Speaker 4: They want the PERV crap.
Speaker 1: So now we're at TARU and we've got Ruben Morales
Speaker 1: aka friend of the pod Jole de la Fuente, and
Speaker 1: he is all over this episode and he's sarcastically like, yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for sending me all this horrible shit. Guys, They're like, well,
Speaker 1: there's two different girls in a lot of these pictures.
Speaker 4: One is eight or nine and one is fourteen to fifteen.
Speaker 1: And he's like, the stuff is twisted, but the computer
Speaker 1: is rigged with some kind of virus, Like I can't
Speaker 1: see everything yet. So Bishop wants to know if they
Speaker 1: can id the girls. Stabler explains that all child sex
Speaker 1: abuse images go to the FBI, who use facial recognition
Speaker 1: and cross reference it with Nick Mick, which is the
Speaker 1: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The picks came
Speaker 1: to Meredith from a guy named Nick Toushai at wiremail
Speaker 1: dot BZ, which they say BIZ, but we all know
Speaker 1: Biz is BIZ, and so this is a wild email address.
Speaker 1: She saves the emails with the pictures, and Bishop says, well,
Speaker 1: wiremail has an anonymous server, and Morales is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: nothing's really anonymous on the Internet and explains IP addresses
Speaker 1: to him, which I feel now more people know about.
Speaker 1: He can only narrow it down to the computer lab
Speaker 1: at Stuyvesant College, but if they get a subpoena, the.
Speaker 4: School can tell you who the user is.
Speaker 1: So she also saved her Internet chats, which show her
Speaker 1: trolling for more porn. Morales says, yeah, I tried reading
Speaker 1: a couple of these, but then I stopped when I
Speaker 1: felt like puking. So back at the precinct, Bishop is
Speaker 1: staring at a picture of Benson and her dead mom
Speaker 1: and he's getting very horny and he's like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: does she date? And Stabler goes lots of guys and
Speaker 1: then changes the subject like I'm not helping you get
Speaker 1: a date with my hot partner. And then Stabler gets
Speaker 1: off the phone with the college and they're basically like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't know who this was. Someone hacked into our
Speaker 1: system remotely to use the college system, so like, we
Speaker 1: can't trace this guy.
Speaker 4: The college thing was a red herring.
Speaker 1: So Bishop is saying, if Nick Tushai killed Meredith, he
Speaker 1: did us a favor. And then he references one of
Speaker 1: the chat where a guy's offering Meredith three hundred photos
Speaker 1: of boys under seven if he can take her son
Speaker 1: to a motel for an hour, but she doesn't have
Speaker 1: any kids. Stabler's like, I'm not getting this. Why would
Speaker 1: this woman be lying so much going to an adult
Speaker 1: chat room to pretend to be a thirteen year old girl.
Speaker 1: When she starts setting up meetings with the guys, she
Speaker 1: saves all the communication. She doesn't offer anything illegal until
Speaker 1: the guys ask for it. What does that sound like
Speaker 1: to you?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 1: To us, this obviously sounds like someone luring pedophiles because
Speaker 1: we are all now grown up on to catch a
Speaker 1: predator essentially, But that show did not even premiere until
Speaker 1: November of two thousand and four, and that's an entire
Speaker 1: year and half after this episode airs. So this show
Speaker 1: again ahead of the curve, like people going into chatrooms
Speaker 1: to like lure out predators. I feel like was popularized
Speaker 1: by Dateline and we it wasn't even happening yet public publicly,
Speaker 1: So bish, I mean it, it was probably happening. I'm
Speaker 1: sure fed's were doing that way earlier, as soon as
Speaker 1: like chatrooms started, but it just wasn't like in the
Speaker 1: you know, conversation.
Speaker 4: Bishop doesn't get it either.
Speaker 1: He's like, well, it sounds like a pedophile to me,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, no, this is how fed's sting pedophiles online.
Speaker 5: So this woman is an informant.
Speaker 1: Okay, So talking to Morales again, he goes, well, that
Speaker 1: makes sense. The virus I found on the laptop was
Speaker 1: actually a trojan horse that was designed to record every
Speaker 1: keystroke that Meredith made, and it was sent to her
Speaker 1: by Nick Toushai. After he sent it to her, he
Speaker 1: could literally see every move she made online. So he
Speaker 1: must have found out that she was an informant, killed her,
Speaker 1: and stolen the evidence. Yeah, Like, never forget that. To
Speaker 1: be a pedophile you also have to be a a
Speaker 1: grade hacker. She sent tons of info to a federal email.
Speaker 2: Actually, what I was thinking this whole episode, like, if
Speaker 2: you are a pedophile, it is a lot of like
Speaker 2: you need to be good at tech.
Speaker 4: You can't not be good at tech.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, yep, because some I'm sure there's people that
Speaker 1: tell you exactly how to do it on the Internet.
Speaker 1: They're like, you got to go get a VPN and
Speaker 1: then you got to this is how you access the
Speaker 1: black web or the dark web, you know, like.
Speaker 2: There's yeah, I wonder if it's like, yeah, violent, because
Speaker 2: there are people that will do it in person. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and knows that. So I guess then I don't know.
Speaker 2: I I guess I don't know the inner workings of
Speaker 2: pedophile mind. Oh my god, this episode gets really fucking dark.
Speaker 4: But so she did.
Speaker 1: Meredith did send tons of info to a federal email
Speaker 1: address to someone named Claudia Williams, and Stabler goes ding
Speaker 1: ding ding with his little light bulb face because he
Speaker 1: knows her. She appears in episode five of this same
Speaker 1: season called Disappearing Act, which is about the father son
Speaker 1: Russian mob thing with John Hurd Rest in Peace, and
Speaker 1: Sabler also knows Claudia as not FBI, she's an assistant
Speaker 1: US attorney. Done done, And I realized I've never really
Speaker 1: looked up US attorneys like what they are, and so
Speaker 1: I decided I wanted to US attorneys are federal prosecutors.
Speaker 1: Who preside over districts, like in New York there's the
Speaker 1: Southern District, Eastern and Western, and there might also be Northern,
Speaker 1: but like Southern District of New York. Yeah, they have Northeast,
Speaker 1: Southwestern New York, and Southern is Manhattan and Bronx and
Speaker 1: Eastern is Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island and Long Island.
Speaker 1: So it's very interesting to me that certain like Manhattan,
Speaker 1: I mean not Manhattan, New York City itself is divided
Speaker 1: into different districts, like are covered by different districts. I
Speaker 1: guess that probably makes sense because it's so populous and big.
Speaker 1: But like Keith Rannieri from Nexium tried in the Southern
Speaker 1: District of New York. Jenshaw tried in the Southern District
Speaker 1: of New York. If any of your crimes extend into Manhattan,
Speaker 1: you're in their jurisdiction. And they're a very powerful district,
Speaker 1: Like they win ninety nine percent of their cases. Like
Speaker 1: it's nine that's like remember when Jen or ninety seven,
Speaker 1: Like that's like when Jen, I know because of.
Speaker 4: The Luigia case. Oh wowowing closely.
Speaker 1: So now we're talking to Claudia and she is, of
Speaker 1: course the icon Pam Greer. Okay, yeah, she is listed
Speaker 1: on her Wikipedia as singer, actor, and martial artist, and
Speaker 1: that's fucking a triple threat that you cannot fuck with.
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantino calls her the first female action star. She
Speaker 1: came up in all of these classic blaxploitation films, and
Speaker 1: then she worked steadily for decades. Jackie Brown, Jawbreaker. She
Speaker 1: was on the L Word for seventy episodes. She's still
Speaker 1: at it, sadly only two episodes of SVU. I felt
Speaker 1: like it was more, but you know, we did get
Speaker 1: her for two. As usual, stable Er is asking someone
Speaker 1: way higher up than him, why didn't you let me
Speaker 1: in on the big picture? And she's like, I was
Speaker 1: gonna come to you when I had something concrete, and
Speaker 1: he accuses her of using a civilian to do her job,
Speaker 1: and she's like, listen, Meredith was a cybervigilante. She did
Speaker 1: this long before she started working with the FEDS, and
Speaker 1: she came to us, and then she goes, what were
Speaker 1: we supposed to do?
Speaker 4: Turn her away?
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I mean, I guess it is funny
Speaker 1: that you're like, well, anybody that comes to us with
Speaker 1: some police work done, we are going to take them on,
Speaker 1: you know, like it is funny. But Stabler's like, okay,
Speaker 1: but she got killed doing your dirty work, so like
Speaker 1: it was her choice, so oopsie. And Claudia is like,
Speaker 1: she helps us put away five pedophiles in the last year.
Speaker 1: That doesn't seem like that many considering how many that
Speaker 1: are out there, But okay, that is good work. Claudia
Speaker 1: insists she's just as invested as Stabler in finding Meredith's killer,
Speaker 1: like she was appreciative of Meredith's work. Stabler's like, show
Speaker 1: me the files and no bullshit about how it compromises
Speaker 1: your case. And then Claudia flashes him a file and
Speaker 1: opens it and goes shows a picture and goes recognize
Speaker 1: this girl And it's the older girl from the file
Speaker 1: from the photos that they found on the cd ROMs,
Speaker 1: like the fourteen fifteen years and Bishop is the ones
Speaker 1: he and Bishop were looking at earlier. And her name
Speaker 1: is Mia van Wagner. She's a fourteen year old from
Speaker 1: Queen's And this girl looks so familiar, like I looked
Speaker 1: her up my lifeiress, oh she does, yeah, she looks
Speaker 1: like yes, my face. Her name is Alexis Dianna, and
Speaker 1: she worked a bunch until twenty ten and then it
Speaker 1: seems like her career has slowed down. But she was
Speaker 1: in an episode of Strangers with Candies, so maybe I
Speaker 1: know her from that. But anyway, the Miley Cyrus is
Speaker 1: helping me a lot. Yes, uh. Anyway, Mia has been
Speaker 1: missing for two weeks and her photos only started showing
Speaker 1: up on the internet after she disappeared, so they think
Speaker 1: she was kidnapped and Meredith found out, and that's possible motive.
Speaker 1: So back at the sixteenth, Stabler's telling Kragan that this
Speaker 1: girl's local precinct basically ignored the case because they figured
Speaker 1: she was a runaway. She packed her bag, she stole
Speaker 1: money from her mom. And then Bishop shows back up
Speaker 1: and Craigan's like, what do you want to join us
Speaker 1: for you? And He's like, I like my victims dead,
Speaker 1: which they always say.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: He found the address of MIA's mother's job at a
Speaker 1: restaurant in Queen's. It is so sad to me that
Speaker 1: you have to just keep going to work at a
Speaker 1: restaurant in Queen's when your daughter's fully missing, Like you
Speaker 1: just you got to go to work like That's I
Speaker 1: was like, so sad for her. Talking to the mom
Speaker 1: at the restaurant, she's explaining, she's like, I told the
Speaker 1: cops I didn't think Mia ran away. She's like, I
Speaker 1: don't allow me to have the internet. Stabler mentions these
Speaker 1: photos and the mom's like what photos?
Speaker 5: Like can I see them?
Speaker 1: And Stablers like, babe, you do not want to see
Speaker 1: these pics, like you'll never get them out of your head.
Speaker 1: And then the mom says she spends a lot of
Speaker 1: time at Samantha Gilligan's house that Mia does, and that
Speaker 1: maybe she could have used her computer. So they go
Speaker 1: over to Samantha and she Samantha she is pretty chill
Speaker 1: about her best friend who's been missing for two weeks okay,
Speaker 1: and the cops are really annoying her. She says, Mia
Speaker 1: just took off and hasn't called me. Okay, I don't
Speaker 1: know anything, and Samantha's like, Mia can take care of herself,
Speaker 1: and it's like yeah, like most fourteen year olds. But
Speaker 1: Samantha goes, she's way more mature than people think. So
Speaker 1: they're like, oky, girl, has mea ever used your computer?
Speaker 2: Girls?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And she's like maybe yeah, and she's being so fucking
Speaker 1: cagy It's like, I don't know. If I was fourteen
Speaker 1: and the cops aroused me about my missing friend, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, here's my computer, passwords, check everything. But Bishop's like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure, well, actually maybe not. She's covering up for
Speaker 1: what she thinks is her friend, just like being with
Speaker 1: her boyfriend. I think what we find out, so maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I wouldn't be that as cool. Bishop's like, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you guys hit the chatrooms to pick up guys,
Speaker 1: and sam goes, okay, whatever is what is that?
Speaker 4: Is that an answer? Like she doesn't say anything.
Speaker 1: He's like, come on, you guys hit the chat rooms,
Speaker 1: and she goes, okay whatever, Like all right, shut down
Speaker 1: the combo, there, girl. So then when they ask her
Speaker 1: if a guy ever tried to pick up Mia, she goes,
Speaker 1: am I psychic, like giving attitude till the very last second.
Speaker 1: I do think we should teach kids to be aware
Speaker 1: of the police. But this girl gives zero fox. That's
Speaker 1: what I wrote down. So when Bishop takes it a
Speaker 1: step further and shoves one of MEA's pictures in the
Speaker 1: girl's face, she goes, does it look like she's having fun?
Speaker 1: Then Samantha gets upset and decides to be a little
Speaker 1: bit more forthcoming. She tells them about Mia having a
Speaker 1: boyfriend online. She's like, I swear I don't know where
Speaker 1: they are. She said, Mia called me a couple days
Speaker 1: ago after she left, but she didn't say where she was.
Speaker 1: Samantha doesn't believe that the boyfriend would exploit her or
Speaker 1: use her in these pictures.
Speaker 4: He loves her.
Speaker 1: She showed me all the emails that he sent to her,
Speaker 1: and Stabler goes like, be a doll and go fetch
Speaker 1: those emails, babe. And then outside, Stabler is pissed at
Speaker 1: Bishop for showing Samantha the photos.
Speaker 4: Bishop's like she was lying.
Speaker 1: Her ass off, and he's like, so you terrorize her
Speaker 1: And he's like, we got what we came for.
Speaker 4: I don't have time for handholding.
Speaker 1: And it's like she is a child, though, so you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to hold a hand a little bit. And
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, listen up, bro, don't jump in my game
Speaker 1: like that again. If anyone's going to traumatize a victim,
Speaker 1: it's me, you know, Like that's kind of He's like,
Speaker 1: that's my turf. So Stabler tells Bishop it's only going
Speaker 1: to get uglier so if you can't take the heat,
Speaker 1: get out of the Pedophileville kitchen, you know. And Bishop's like, well,
Speaker 1: why don't we split up the work. I'll dump this
Speaker 1: girl's phone and you take the emails. So back to Morales,
Speaker 1: he's helping Stabler look at the emails. But the server
Speaker 1: the emails came from are a bit out of the
Speaker 1: NYPD jurisdiction. They're coming from Prague in the Czech Republic.
Speaker 1: So now Stabler is back with Pam Greer aka Claudia Williams,
Speaker 1: and she confirms that the sender is a guy named
Speaker 1: Eric Tasig, a German living in the Czech Republic. The
Speaker 1: Czechs won't arrest him based on emails. They need proof
Speaker 1: that he actually has the girl. He hasn't left the
Speaker 1: Czech Republic in eight months, so he must have convinced
Speaker 1: Mia to come to him. But she has no passport,
Speaker 1: so how did he smuggle this girl out of the country.
Speaker 1: We just have to prove it and the checks will
Speaker 1: help us. So now we're at the connect the dots board. Okay,
Speaker 1: at the precinct. Mia has had an online relationship with
Speaker 1: Tasig for a year, so she's fourteen she's been talking
Speaker 1: to this guy since she was thirteen. Photos of Mia
Speaker 1: and the unknown little girl were sent by Nick Touschai
Speaker 1: to Meredith. So Nick Toschai must be the one who
Speaker 1: murdered Meredith and her husband. Could they be the same person?
Speaker 1: Probably not, because Tasig's emails are very esl and nick
Speaker 1: two shays are not okay. So it's like clear that
Speaker 1: he's not an English speaker and that Nick Toushai is.
Speaker 4: So how do these guys who know each other? And
Speaker 4: who is the little girl and where is she?
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sure they know each other from an
Speaker 1: online forum, but we're going to find out. Bishop busts
Speaker 1: in with some more tea. Mia called Samantha from a
Speaker 1: prepaid sell which she used the first two days she
Speaker 1: was missing, but has not used since. Three calls to
Speaker 1: the same phone number. A photo copy shop in Midtown
Speaker 1: and that's a place where you done done get passport photos.
Speaker 1: So at the copy shop and employee immediately goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Carrie. It's a photo of Mia. She goes, that's Carrie.
Speaker 1: She's my boss's daughter. Ron He's right in the back
Speaker 1: if you want to talk to him. The quickest we've
Speaker 1: ever gotten to anything. I know who that is. Boss
Speaker 1: is in the back, like that girl delivered. Okay, don't
Speaker 1: want to judge a book, but ron looks like a pedophile. Okay,
Speaker 1: Like they cast this man to be like a pedophile
Speaker 1: looking man. They show him the photo and he's like,
Speaker 1: well but a pedophile, yeah, yeah, yeah, And he's like,
Speaker 1: there's a resemblance, but that's not Carrie. And they're pressing
Speaker 1: him and he's being bitchy. They're like, show us a
Speaker 1: picture of your daughter, and when he hesitates, Bishop flips
Speaker 1: him around for a pat down, grabs his wallet. Family
Speaker 1: photo in there shows a completely different girl that is
Speaker 1: not me, that is his daughter. So they bring him in.
Speaker 1: So now it's Ronnie, Bishop and Stabler. They're chopping it
Speaker 1: up in cement room bars. Okay, Ronnie's claiming he's never
Speaker 1: seen that girl and his employee made a mistake.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: They're like, all right, so then why did me call
Speaker 1: your copy shop three times that day? And he's like,
Speaker 1: maybe she needed copies? And Bishop slaps this guy upside
Speaker 1: the back of his head in a way that I enjoy.
Speaker 1: I don't like police brutality, but I like a good
Speaker 1: slap up the side of the head. Stabler wildly playing
Speaker 1: good cop for once is basically like, you better talk
Speaker 1: because my guy Bishop is sick of waiting, like he's
Speaker 1: really enjoying the role reversal for two minutes, they bring
Speaker 1: up the rape and murder, and suddenly Ronnie is.
Speaker 4: Like, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa wrong guy like.
Speaker 5: That is not me.
Speaker 1: Bishop is about to rough him up when Claudia Williams
Speaker 1: walks in with Craig and they tell Bishop to take
Speaker 1: a walk, and she introduces herself to Ronnie and he
Speaker 1: threatens a lawsuit on the department, and she's like, you
Speaker 1: will not be having any further contact with Bishop, don't
Speaker 1: you worry. She asks if he has custody of his
Speaker 1: daughter and he gives it up. No carries with my ex.
Speaker 1: And then he asks, well, why did you recently get
Speaker 1: her a passport then, and he's like no, and they're like, bitch,
Speaker 1: they didn't bring a US attorney in here to fuck around, Like,
Speaker 1: obviously she has receipts the passport application birth certificate, but
Speaker 1: the photo is Mia van Wagner, so frauduently obtaining a
Speaker 1: passport is a serious offense. If you think the NYPD sucks,
Speaker 1: wait till you start dealing with the FEDS. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I think the Feds the NYPD beats you up more.
Speaker 4: But whatever.
Speaker 1: He says, he didn't kidnap her. He just gotut of
Speaker 1: the passport and he helped her leave the country, which
Speaker 1: is what she wanted to do. And he doesn't know
Speaker 1: the name of the guy. But Claudia is like, you
Speaker 1: guys share illegal images online and Customs is already searching
Speaker 1: your house students, so don't bother. So he is a pedophile.
Speaker 1: This man is a pedofile. For a second, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: well they cast a guy he was a pedophile. But
Speaker 1: it's a red herring. He is a pedophile, he's just
Speaker 1: not the pedophile that we're looking for. Ronnie says, the
Speaker 1: guy gave him five thousand dollars to help and then
Speaker 1: he bought the plane ticket, but the girl wanted to go.
Speaker 1: And he denies knowing who this little girl is, and
Speaker 1: he has no idea who Meredith McGrath is. And he says,
Speaker 1: I was just helping this girl take a trip to
Speaker 1: Europe by herself.
Speaker 4: Is that a crime?
Speaker 1: And it's like, you have a fourteen year old daughter, Sir,
Speaker 1: do you think there's something wrong with her going to
Speaker 1: another country to visit some random creep?
Speaker 5: Like you're the worst.
Speaker 1: And so we all know this man is a creep
Speaker 1: and a perv, but he did not commit this murder.
Speaker 4: Like none of us think Ronnie is capable.
Speaker 1: Craigan confirms his prints do not match the prints on
Speaker 1: like the scene at the body really shaky.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, sweaty. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think copy shop guy is like doing all
Speaker 1: of this car bumping and then murdering, and you know.
Speaker 2: The pedophiles in any way he can, which is making copies.
Speaker 1: Yes, in walks, Claudia going Stabler, how is it you've
Speaker 1: never gotten a passport? And he's like I never needed one,
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, in two thousand and three, Stabler
Speaker 1: didn't have a passport, and in twenty seventeen he moved
Speaker 1: his whole family to Rome, so you people can change.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe he'd traveled with the Marines, but maybe not.
Speaker 1: I was like googling whether the military gives you a passport,
Speaker 1: but they apparently give you some kind of special idea,
Speaker 1: so that's you know, it's possible, and that's how we
Speaker 1: can get on the flights faster. Yeah, he may have
Speaker 1: just marined locally too. He maybe didn't go anywhere abroad.
Speaker 1: But after that he was too busy knocking up his
Speaker 1: wife and memorizing New York City Catholic schools to ever
Speaker 1: take a trip out of the country. So Stabler is
Speaker 1: never gone anywhere, and he had yet.
Speaker 2: Their family vacations are to Disney, you know, or to
Speaker 2: the Jersey Shore.
Speaker 1: It's the shore, babe. They're not going any further than
Speaker 1: the shore with five kids. No, no, no, but they
Speaker 1: are not coughing up for Disney.
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't that crazy at this time, Like I feel,
Speaker 2: we were still living in an America that was like
Speaker 2: maybe affordable.
Speaker 4: That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1: I mean I just paid so much for me and
Speaker 1: Oscar to go alone for one day, and my parents
Speaker 1: took three of us for three three days. I in
Speaker 1: that today would cost five thousand dollars. I mean, like
Speaker 1: so much with hotel, like so much. But did we
Speaker 1: find out on a recent episode their salaries like they're
Speaker 1: making like sixty eight or something in the early seasons,
Speaker 1: like they're not.
Speaker 4: I just don't know if he I just don't know
Speaker 4: if he's doing Disney. But you know, you're right. I
Speaker 4: think it's Jersey Shore.
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a an old partner's house
Speaker 1: on the Jersey shore or something. Anyway, Sailor is about
Speaker 1: to get the European trip he never dreamed of.
Speaker 2: Oh you know what, he makes his kids go camping.
Speaker 2: I feel it in my own I feel it in
Speaker 2: my bones. Survival skills. Ah, he's a camper. He's a camper.
Speaker 2: He's taking the kids camping because that's how he vacation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I see it, I see it now.
Speaker 4: Sailor is about to get the European trip he never
Speaker 4: dreamed of.
Speaker 1: Customs months and SVU detective in Prague for when they
Speaker 1: find me a so go pick up your passport and
Speaker 1: your plane ticket at JFK in two hours. And it's
Speaker 1: like hilarious, how quick they act, Like the federal government works,
Speaker 1: like they just found this out, and they're like, you're
Speaker 1: ticketing your passports waiting at the at the airport. So
Speaker 1: Stabler is off to Prague. So we're at the US
Speaker 1: Embassy in Prague. And that's very obvious because bells are ringing,
Speaker 1: and that happens only in Europe Okay, Sabler meets with
Speaker 1: Europeole officer Kate Logan, and as she shakes his hand,
Speaker 1: Stabler is standing in front of an extremely obvious green
Speaker 1: screen shot of Europe, which I confirmed online, where a
Speaker 1: bunch of sites say that this is basically the only
Speaker 1: time the show uses green screen, like just this inside,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's possible in more recent days, but like
Speaker 1: they're pretty staunchly an on location show, you know, Like so,
Speaker 1: but I know they're not gonna fly all the way
Speaker 1: to Prague just to get like a shot of him
Speaker 1: outside the like the fucking embassy. So there's this one
Speaker 1: shot that's green screen, and then the rest of it.
Speaker 1: They definitely are finding parts of New York that look
Speaker 1: very European, like old churches, cobblestone streets, stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Kate Logan is played by Doug Marra dominsk I'm sorry
Speaker 1: if I'm saying that incorrectly. She is a Polish actor
Speaker 1: who has worked Natalie over the past twenty five years.
Speaker 1: You might recognize her as Carolina Navatni on Succession. That's
Speaker 1: her most recent big thing that she was in multiple episodes,
Speaker 1: like thirty episodes of Succession, and she's married to the
Speaker 1: actor Patrick Wilson.
Speaker 4: So that's pretty fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she tells Sabler, they'll give you a gun,
Speaker 1: and she goes, she goes, do you speak checker German? Lol,
Speaker 1: Like Sabler, he actually goes a little Spanish, and it's like, bitch,
Speaker 1: when I've never even heard you say oh la, like
Speaker 1: you we all know Benson handles all the bilingual duties,
Speaker 1: like I've never even heard him say borvobore. And so anyway,
Speaker 1: She's like, okay, well then you stick with me because
Speaker 1: I'm bilingual. She's curious why she's doing what seems like
Speaker 1: a British accent because her name's Kate Logan. So I'm like,
Speaker 1: that doesn't really feel like a Polish name to me,
Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. I'm married to a Logan.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel Polish. But she's curious why the NYPD
Speaker 1: sent a detective overseas, and honestly, me too, girl. Sabler's like,
Speaker 1: it's be the guy is a particular dirt bag. And
Speaker 1: then Kate Logan like shits all over the country, going
Speaker 1: no shortage of those here, Welcome to the Czech Republic.
Speaker 1: So he wants to know why Europole is after Tacig.
Speaker 1: You know, Czech Republic's not even in the EU yet
Speaker 1: they actually joined the year after this episode, in May
Speaker 1: of two thousand and four.
Speaker 4: Wo yeah, she says.
Speaker 1: Europol and Interpol think that Tasig traffics young girls from
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe to Germany and Austria, and he fled to
Speaker 1: the Czech Republic two years ago and has been getting
Speaker 1: into the online game producing and distributing you know, child
Speaker 1: sex abuse material, but they can't prove it. She has
Speaker 1: a thing for Tasig because they almost caught him and
Speaker 1: he slipped away, and she's like, it won't happen again.
Speaker 4: So this is her white whale.
Speaker 1: Okay, Stabler and Logan walk into the office of Mike
Speaker 1: Pearson us customs at tashe there have been developments. Last night,
Speaker 1: the Czech police jumped the gun and raided Tasig's flat,
Speaker 1: So now he and the girl are in the wind.
Speaker 1: How did no we were onto him, They're like, well,
Speaker 1: Customs in DC traced an email from his ISP to
Speaker 1: Samantha Gilligan, who replied the next day, that's me as
Speaker 1: little bestie, who must have warned me that the cops
Speaker 1: knew about Tasig.
Speaker 5: I still don't know why they would have.
Speaker 1: That would have been a good excuse for them to run,
Speaker 1: but what Oh, maybe they thought she's been in touch
Speaker 1: with her friend. They're gonna run, So the cops thought
Speaker 1: they could beat them, but they didn't. They got away first.
Speaker 1: They've released her photo to the media. They'll see if
Speaker 1: they get any hits. Logan says, Tasig won't try to
Speaker 1: leave the country. He's got too much to lose. And
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, what do you mean, he's already got the girl,
Speaker 1: and she goes, you need a lesson on the sex
Speaker 1: trade in the Czech Republic, my friend.
Speaker 4: So now they're going to take a little walking tour.
Speaker 1: Okay, they're in the Czech border town called Templice, where
Speaker 1: Logan is explaining to Stabler that the brothels outnumber the
Speaker 1: churches in a place like this. Every week, ten thousand
Speaker 1: Germans come to visit sex workers for half the price,
Speaker 1: and they can get anything they want. So she's they're
Speaker 1: walking down the street. She's pointing to different apartments that
Speaker 1: have different colored curtains. She's like, see those pink curtains.
Speaker 1: That means that you can get a girl under ten
Speaker 1: for thirty minutes. If you have five hundred crowns, which
Speaker 1: is seventeen dollars, oh my god, blue yeah, blue curtains
Speaker 1: means you get a boy. So they're like some of
Speaker 1: the children that are being smuggled are orphans from Romania
Speaker 1: and Bulgaria. Tascic isn't the only one profiting off of
Speaker 1: selling children. It's like a widespread common practice here. And
Speaker 1: as she's telling him all this, like a young an
Speaker 1: old man comes walking down the street like with a
Speaker 1: young boy with his hand on his shoulders, and it's
Speaker 1: like it's just like it could absolutely be a grandfather
Speaker 1: at his grandkid. But it's just while you're hearing this,
Speaker 1: it's not great imagery. Stabler is immediately getting steamed and
Speaker 1: wants to know why doesn't anyone do anything, And she's like, well,
Speaker 1: euro A Pole has no authority and the Czech police
Speaker 1: have no incentives to stop. There's so much money to
Speaker 1: be made with the German tourism. The cops make all
Speaker 1: this money giving them tickets, like it's all one hand
Speaker 1: shakes the other and all that shit. So she's like,
Speaker 1: this is the world, Stabler. I think in your line
Speaker 1: of work you'd get it, and he's like, well, in America,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't just sit back and take it.
Speaker 4: It's like, I mean, what about it.
Speaker 1: It's like one rape out of a thousand gets prosecuted
Speaker 1: or something like that. But anyway, that's very noble, she says,
Speaker 1: But as long as there's demand for this kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: there's not much we can do. Obviously, after they joined
Speaker 1: the European Union, Europol would have more authority over it.
Speaker 5: And I don't know.
Speaker 1: It seems like the Czech Republic has become a bigger
Speaker 1: tourist destination and I don't hear about it as much
Speaker 1: as a sex tourism destination the way I hear about
Speaker 1: other countries.
Speaker 4: So maybe they've cleaned up their act. I actually do
Speaker 4: not know.
Speaker 1: So basically, she's like telling Stabler like, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: like working at the post office. The mail keeps coming in,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, we can't there's a
Speaker 1: demand for this. There's nothing we can do. And he's like,
Speaker 1: so then what are you even doing here? And she's like,
Speaker 1: I'm doing my job. What are you doing here? And
Speaker 1: they're in Greenwich Village but it's they've got a couple
Speaker 1: of cars with European license plates, like they're doing their best.
Speaker 4: It does look good.
Speaker 1: She gets a phone call and Stabler watches like these
Speaker 1: two teen girls get in a car and obviously goes
Speaker 1: into like hashtag girl dad mode, and Logan's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we just got a tip and it's not far from here,
Speaker 1: let's go. So now they're in a crowded square showing
Speaker 1: pictures of Mia to everybody, and a vender says, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I see her every day she comes to buy chocolate.
Speaker 1: She's mostly alone, but she has been once or twice
Speaker 1: with a man, and I don't think it's her dad
Speaker 1: because of the way he kisses her. And he hasn't
Speaker 1: seen her today, So they're gonna wait. They've got two
Speaker 1: check officers with them too, and now they're all just
Speaker 1: in different areas of the square waiting watching. Stabler spots
Speaker 1: Mia and she's got her hair all up in a beret.
Speaker 1: But you know, he can spot that little Miley look
Speaker 1: alike from a mile away, and he puts on his
Speaker 1: leather OJ gloves and starts following her. She immediately makes
Speaker 1: him because he's a fully American looking cop just belining
Speaker 1: it for her in the middle of the square. He
Speaker 1: can't do anything in a way that's conspicuous.
Speaker 4: I'm sure you ordered.
Speaker 2: An eggin she's at the farmer's market, like yeah, just
Speaker 2: so culturally burgers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he can't do anything inconspicuously. I mean right,
Speaker 1: So she goes to Eric. She runs over to Eric
Speaker 1: and goes I think someone's following me. Stabler starts screaming Mia, Mia,
Speaker 1: and then she's like, let's go.
Speaker 4: They run. A chase happens.
Speaker 1: We get a shot of Stabler running on cobblestone through
Speaker 1: a pack of pigeons.
Speaker 4: Very good cinematography. It's very euro I love it.
Speaker 1: Stay like like as like, pigeons do not sit and
Speaker 1: gather in Manhattan. They only do that in European countries.
Speaker 1: Stabler's chasing, yelling at me at a wait.
Speaker 5: Wait.
Speaker 1: As Stabler gains on them, Eric just abandons Mia and
Speaker 1: runs for himself. And then that's when Stabler grabs mea
Speaker 1: and she's crying and protesting and yelling out for Eric,
Speaker 1: and Logan catches up and she's pissed. She's like, you know,
Speaker 1: like in the next scene, they're at the embassy and
Speaker 1: Logan is like leg into Stabler for losing Tossig. She's like,
Speaker 1: she was his one reason to stay in the country,
Speaker 1: so now he could be anywhere. And she's like, you
Speaker 1: could have just gone for him, and then we would
Speaker 1: have eventually found Mia. And she's kind of right, and
Speaker 1: he like, Mia wouldn't have run that far out.
Speaker 4: Victim comes first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but she I think Kate would have been
Speaker 1: able to catch up to her, Like, if she lost him,
Speaker 1: I think she would have been like, eugh, you know,
Speaker 1: she seems very dependent on this man.
Speaker 4: Anyway.
Speaker 1: He's like, and then, what just let a kid wander
Speaker 1: around a foreign city for a few days.
Speaker 4: What about the other child? Did you forget about her?
Speaker 1: That's what Kate says to Stabler, Like, if we had
Speaker 1: to him, we could figure out what's up with this
Speaker 1: eight year old girl that is somewhere in the world.
Speaker 1: You know, but we've seen this a million times. He
Speaker 1: went for Live instead of going for the kid that
Speaker 1: lou Diamond Phillips had. You know, we make our choices
Speaker 1: on the splits decision, and you know, you got to
Speaker 1: stand by your choices.
Speaker 4: And he does stand by his choice.
Speaker 1: He says Mia will lead them to Tussig, and Logan's like, dude,
Speaker 1: she has Stockholm syndrome. She thinks we're the enemy, and
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, I get wire pissed. It's easier to arrest
Speaker 1: the bad guy than to deal with the victim. And
Speaker 1: that is a critical philosophy of the show that is
Speaker 1: like absolutely what the show is, because the other guys
Speaker 1: that always come in are like, get the bad guy,
Speaker 1: get the bad guy, you get the bad guy, and
Speaker 1: they're also like, yeah, but you also have to deal
Speaker 1: with the victim.
Speaker 2: Like even with Getannie Nielsen, it was just like give
Speaker 2: her that, you know, like yeah, yeah, yeah, yelling and screaming,
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, you don't get to like terrorize kid.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is a corner zone of this
Speaker 4: A corner.
Speaker 1: Stone of the show, I think is yeah, it's easier
Speaker 1: to arrest the bad guy than to deal with the victim,
Speaker 1: and that's why so many people want to do homicide
Speaker 1: or narcotics or whatever.
Speaker 4: So now they're talking to me and she wants.
Speaker 1: To leave, obviously, and they're like, babe, you're fourteen, Like
Speaker 1: we need to protect you, and she's like, I don't
Speaker 1: want your protection, and Stabler throws it at her that
Speaker 1: Eric abandoned her and she's like, we're in love. You
Speaker 1: guys don't get it. Logan's like he tells that to
Speaker 1: a lot of girls. Mia is not buying. She's like
Speaker 1: they're like, well, he sells girls for sex, and she's like, Nope,
Speaker 1: not buying it. Then they tell her about the pictures
Speaker 1: and that they know that he drugs her up and
Speaker 1: like she does the makeup like subtly looks like this
Speaker 1: girl has been like on drugs, you know, like and
Speaker 1: she denies it, like and they're like, so you wanted
Speaker 1: those pictures taken and put on the internet, and that's
Speaker 1: what gets through to her. She's kind of like, wait,
Speaker 1: what I didn't know about that. I can't believe that's true.
Speaker 1: And Stabler's like he won't protect you, so don't protect him.
Speaker 1: And then she's really freaking out about the pictures. She's like,
Speaker 1: can we get them back? Like nobody has to see them,
Speaker 1: and they're like we'll try, and she's like, I just
Speaker 1: my mom cannot see those pictures, like and she begs
Speaker 1: them and then Stabler's like, I promise we'll destroy them
Speaker 1: when they find Eric. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 1: he's fully grasps the concept that nothing on the Internet
Speaker 1: is ever completely deleted, But does pore so.
Speaker 2: Much of the Internet. Is that principle true even back then?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that if that kind of shits
Speaker 1: in the way back machine or whatever, Like I bet
Speaker 1: that's a good question. Like back when the Internet was newer,
Speaker 1: was it so hard to just once you deleted something
Speaker 1: from the Internet?
Speaker 5: Wasn't gone?
Speaker 1: Was everything because there wasn't Ai tryling the Internet and
Speaker 1: like things being duplicated all the time, you know.
Speaker 2: So I had a Nokia at this point, if yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I just I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm just trying.
Speaker 1: Two thousand and three, I was playing Snake on a Nokia. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I was Snake a snake. As I am clicking my tetris,
Speaker 1: I'm like sick. I'm truly sick. I'm addicted. So Stabler
Speaker 1: promises to destroy these picks and she goes Okay, here's
Speaker 1: where she gives up a place where Eric Tossig has
Speaker 1: a work like a second location that he works out of. Okay,
Speaker 1: the cops bust into this apartment and this guy was
Speaker 1: pretty confident that she wasn't gonna une hm out because
Speaker 1: he is a napping on the couch snug as a bug, okay,
Speaker 1: and they bust into this room and this actor is
Speaker 1: named Lothe. He is French Canadian okay. He has been
Speaker 1: in two other svus. One is season one, episode six,
Speaker 1: Sophomore Jinks, where he plays a college professor so obsessed
Speaker 1: with a student that he stalked and then sexually assaults
Speaker 1: after she basically is dead, which is fucking I mean,
Speaker 1: the show really popped off in season one, so crazy
Speaker 1: we should do that episode. And then season fifteen we
Speaker 1: just did this episode, Gambler's Fallacy. He's the evil art
Speaker 1: dealer who masterminds the whole thing when Rollins is yeah,
Speaker 1: when Rollins is like involved with Sondra and he's Sondra's
Speaker 1: baby daddy and like all that. So this guy a
Speaker 1: real chameleon because I didn't recognize him and we just
Speaker 1: did that episode anyway, he is pleasantly surprised that they
Speaker 1: send an American cop after him, and his accent is
Speaker 1: like kind of French, kind of German. It's confusing, and
Speaker 1: he accuses America of arresting people around the globe and
Speaker 1: claiming terrorism as their excuse, which I'm sure he's correct,
Speaker 1: and he starts yelling about police brutality, et cetera. And
Speaker 1: then they find a video setup in the back room
Speaker 1: and it's filled with VHS videos. This is his hub.
Speaker 1: This is like his production studio. This is where he
Speaker 1: makes all this shit and with his customers.
Speaker 4: I guess.
Speaker 1: They find a list quickly of his customers and there's
Speaker 1: a ton of them in the US, and Stabler goes
Speaker 1: business is booming. So now they're in the Czech prison
Speaker 1: interrogation room and it makes cement room bars look like
Speaker 1: a white Lotus hotel. Okay, Like this is a scary cave.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, Like they're in like a scary cell that
Speaker 2: looks like there's rats.
Speaker 4: Like it does not look good.
Speaker 1: They bring in Tacic and he's complaining about human rights
Speaker 1: violation by the Czech police and Logan's like, that's not
Speaker 1: your problem. You're not in check custody and he claims
Speaker 1: to have done nothing wrong, and they're like, you recorded
Speaker 1: yourself numerous times having sex with me and Van Wagner
Speaker 1: and he's like, so the age of consent here is
Speaker 1: fifteen and they're like, well she's fourteen, and he's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so she lied, Like he's so who cares? And she's
Speaker 1: clearly consenting on the tapes, he says, Stabler shows pictures
Speaker 1: of me engaging in sexual activity with other men and girls,
Speaker 1: and he insists this guy's like, she's adventurous, she loves it.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler does a whisper chat like he loves
Speaker 1: to do, where he gets rut up in the guy's
Speaker 1: ear and he's like, she's a fourteen year old girl
Speaker 1: that you droged and raped, you know. He does this
Speaker 1: little whisper voice, and he's still like, no way, I'm
Speaker 1: not a pornographer. And it's like, dude, do you think
Speaker 1: they didn't look around and find your full production office
Speaker 1: of tapes, like you have over one hundred thousand illegal images,
Speaker 1: Like you're not a pornographer?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then some reason with these guys, it's never
Speaker 2: like fifteen. It's always like and he had eight million photos.
Speaker 2: It's like, right, I don't know, Like it's just it's
Speaker 2: just such wild numbers, always with these pedophiles.
Speaker 4: Exactly can never be enough.
Speaker 1: Then, taking a page right out of the Republican Handbook,
Speaker 1: he's like, why are you guys so obsessed with children?
Speaker 4: That's disgusting, Like just.
Speaker 1: Turning it back, like you guys are so obsessed with
Speaker 1: you know, liberals are obsessed with like children, and it's like,
Speaker 1: you guys are the ones li literally obsessed with what
Speaker 1: genitalia goes into, what bathroom?
Speaker 4: No one else cares about that.
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, dude, you make videos of kids being sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted and sell them and we're disgusting. And he claims, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'm trapping these pedophiles. They buy from me so I
Speaker 1: can get their identities. I'm doing the police's work. I mean,
Speaker 1: this man is swerving. First it's like I'm doing nothing wrong.
Speaker 1: Then it's like she likes it. Then it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just she's a year off of the age like limit.
Speaker 1: And then it's oh, I'm actually basically doing copwork, you know.
Speaker 1: So he's like, Mia came to me by her own choice,
Speaker 1: and I don't expect you guys to get it. So
Speaker 1: they show him pictures of the young girl, the eight
Speaker 1: year old girl, and they're like who is she and
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't know, and they're like, well, you
Speaker 1: have fifty pictures of her on your computer. So this
Speaker 1: Mariah Carey act isn't gonna fly. And then Stabler elbows
Speaker 1: the guy in the face and he falls over in
Speaker 1: his chair, and it's pretty funny. Again, I don't like
Speaker 1: police brutality, but this guy is a heinous pedophile, and
Speaker 1: he just goes whap and like gets him right with
Speaker 1: an elbow in the face. And Tactic is like, you
Speaker 1: can't do this, it's against your law. And then Logan
Speaker 1: dismisses the check cop who shuts the cell, and she goes, well,
Speaker 1: we're not in America, mister Tassig, clearly implying that Stabler
Speaker 1: could just kick the shit out of this guy if
Speaker 1: he wanted, with zero repercussions, like because they're you know,
Speaker 1: there's no cameras on in there. And she tells him
Speaker 1: to cooperate and stop this ridiculous performance. He says to Stabler,
Speaker 1: you need permission from this bitch, and what you're not
Speaker 1: gonna do is insult a female cop in front of Stabler.
Speaker 1: So he immediately throat punches this guy and slams him
Speaker 1: on the table over and over, asking him about the girl,
Speaker 1: and he finally gives up, Okay, I've seen her website.
Speaker 1: I know her name is Amy, but that's all I know.
Speaker 1: Back at the embassy. A tech guy has found the
Speaker 1: site and it's called Amy's Little Secret and you need
Speaker 1: a password to get on it, and it's twenty nine
Speaker 1: to ninety nine. But you buy the password from this
Speaker 1: other site, and when you get the password at this
Speaker 1: other site, you can access multiple sites with that password,
Speaker 1: and its adult and child, you know material, And it
Speaker 1: shows up on your credit card as a subscription to
Speaker 1: a fly fishing magazine. He's already ordered one using the
Speaker 1: corporate card. He says, it's like, we don't need to
Speaker 1: know how you paid for it and access the site
Speaker 1: and it's got pictures of Amy since she was three
Speaker 1: years old and live webcasts two times a week. Like
Speaker 1: this shit makes me like truly sick. And Stabler also
Speaker 1: is like about to borrow. He's like, shut it off.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see any more of this. So
Speaker 1: they find the same email address of Nick Toushai and
Speaker 1: what about the company that sells the passwords? They say
Speaker 1: they're actually operating out of the US New York state.
Speaker 1: Time to head home, Stabler, so that's convenient. He just
Speaker 1: gets to head back and the crime is also taking
Speaker 1: place in his home state, so he walks back into
Speaker 1: the precinct and looks pissed to find Bishops sitting there
Speaker 1: with his legs kicked up on a desk, and Bishop's
Speaker 1: there to take Stabler to the FED building. You won't
Speaker 1: believe what you started at Claudia's office. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of hustle and bustle. Tastics computers were a treasure trove.
Speaker 1: They find the information for a company called Private Code
Speaker 1: that sells thewords and they're based in Westchester, near where
Speaker 1: I grew up.
Speaker 4: I had no idea.
Speaker 1: TACIG gets a cut of their profits for up to
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars a month. They found fifteen child
Speaker 1: sex abuse material sites on Private Codes payroll in three
Speaker 1: different countries, totaling four hundred thousand images and who knows
Speaker 1: how many subscribers. But it will lead to the producers
Speaker 1: of the content, and they're busting seventeen of them in
Speaker 1: the Tri State alone right now. So Claudia Williams says,
Speaker 1: you've opened Pandora's box, Detective, and you know that's that.
Speaker 4: So they've got it covered.
Speaker 1: But Claudia thought the boys might want to be there
Speaker 1: when they take these bastards down, So they bust into
Speaker 1: this suburban home and the most llbeing white couple of
Speaker 1: all time are trying to destroy evidence, and the woman
Speaker 1: is like, we just sell passwords.
Speaker 4: We don't know what people put on their websites.
Speaker 1: And as they cuff these two monsters, Stabler goes, you're saying,
Speaker 1: you don't know what the site child dot rape is
Speaker 1: all about.
Speaker 4: Shut up. He does this like this, like disgusted. Shut
Speaker 4: up that he does where he goes shit up.
Speaker 1: So Morales is back now and telling them that this
Speaker 1: is bigger than we thought. This company grows fifteen million
Speaker 1: dollars last year alone, three hundred thousand subscribers, one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand sites with the material on it, twenty countries, and
Speaker 1: they keep great records, bank accounts, credit cards, email addresses.
Speaker 1: They already found sixty in Manhattan, so this is like
Speaker 1: a massive, massive bust.
Speaker 4: They look up Nick Toushai.
Speaker 1: They can see his name is Nicholas Taylor, but there's
Speaker 1: no address but the master and the visa account Bill's
Speaker 1: gotta go somewhere.
Speaker 4: So now it's nighttime.
Speaker 1: Sailor and Bishop knock on a door and a little
Speaker 1: girl answers it's Amy. Sailor's eyes widen. He's so happy.
Speaker 5: He found her. She's alive and surviving somehow, he says.
Speaker 1: She says, my dad's upstairs sleeping, and asks like, where's
Speaker 1: your policeman clothes? And he shows her his badge, lets
Speaker 1: her hold it. She opens the door. Bishop asks Amy, like,
Speaker 1: take me to the water. Take me I need a
Speaker 1: glass of water.
Speaker 5: Take me to the kitchen.
Speaker 1: And then Stabler walks up the stairs, slowly, quietly, gun drawn.
Speaker 1: He finds this evil fuck sleeping like a baby in bed.
Speaker 1: He puts the gun to this guy's head and like
Speaker 1: there's like three seconds where he's like, I could just
Speaker 1: shoot this guy in the fucking head. I could just
Speaker 1: kill this guy who has been literally not only sexually
Speaker 1: assaulting his daughter for years but profiting off of it.
Speaker 1: And he instead thinks better of it because there's forensics.
Speaker 1: They're gonna know he was fucking lying. They're sleeping, and
Speaker 1: you shot him at point blank range, and he slams
Speaker 1: the gun against the wall, waking the guy up. The
Speaker 1: guy so startled immediately he's like, where's my daughter? And
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, your daughter, Like you give a fuck, get
Speaker 1: your clothes on. So they bring this guy in, but
Speaker 1: somehow this guy's in woodroom blinds. I don't know why
Speaker 1: the worst pedophile we've seen in a while is in
Speaker 1: like the nicer interrogation room. His prints were at the
Speaker 1: scene of Meredith McGrath's murder and Roger McGrath's murder. His
Speaker 1: lawyer's like, all right, let's get cabin in here and
Speaker 1: make a deal. And they're like on two murders and
Speaker 1: prolonged child abuse. What do you think you're gonna get?
Speaker 1: He denies hurting Amy. This guy, he's like Meredith betrayed me.
Speaker 1: He says he loves Amy more than Stabler will ever realize.
Speaker 1: He's like, I won't feel bad about this just because
Speaker 1: you say I should. And I was like, fuck, this
Speaker 1: is nambla shit, Like I didn't realize that this guy, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy thinks he's in love with his jab.
Speaker 1: He's not just like exploiting her. I mean, it's probably
Speaker 1: selfishly as well. But he's like, no, we're in love,
Speaker 1: Like I'm in love with my child, my baby, Like
Speaker 1: and he says, society says I should feel bad, but
Speaker 1: not that long ago, society said that interracial marriage and
Speaker 1: homosexuality were a crime.
Speaker 4: And Stabler's heard.
Speaker 1: This pedophiles justification before and the guy's like, I'm not alone.
Speaker 1: There are hundreds of thousands of people just like me,
Speaker 1: maybe millions, you fhreaks, and they're like, you freaks will
Speaker 1: never be alone in prison, and he goes, ever, think
Speaker 1: you're the minority, that you're the freaks. You can persecute us,
Speaker 1: but we're not going away. We're not playing by your rules,
Speaker 1: and nothing you can do will ever change that. And
Speaker 1: Stabler just like stare that the guy and it's really
Speaker 1: haunting because it's like, yeah, we're like what episode was
Speaker 1: Downloaded Child with Megan Fahey, I mean like that was
Speaker 1: another episode where it was like, yeah, like it's like
Speaker 1: ten years later, nothing's changed on this show. And now
Speaker 1: it's ten years later than that show and nothing's really changed,
Speaker 1: but it's gotten worse because of technology. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 1: impossible to police it, like so it is fucked up
Speaker 1: that online these guys probably convince each other like we're
Speaker 1: not actually doing anything wrong, like we just love children,
Speaker 1: you know. But uh anyway, final scene, Bishop and Stabler
Speaker 1: are having a celebratory drink. Bishop wants to buy one
Speaker 1: more round, but Stabler suddenly remembers I have a family
Speaker 1: and wants to make sure his kids remember.
Speaker 4: What he looks like.
Speaker 1: He says, uh, oh, yeah, is your family part of
Speaker 1: why you do the job? And he's like, yeah, part
Speaker 1: of it, and he goes, Bishop says, I see what
Speaker 1: you get out of it. All those guys you put
Speaker 1: away won't be able to hurt any more kids, Like,
Speaker 1: but you know, it's a tough gig, though, you really
Speaker 1: gotta love it, and Stabler goes, no, you've got to
Speaker 1: hate it only way you'll be any good at it.
Speaker 1: Deep and that's dick wolf baby, Yeah, Stabler knew what
Speaker 1: he meant.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I hate the job.
Speaker 2: You hate the pedophile like shut up, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, shut up. Stay there.
Speaker 2: He couldn't even have one nice moment at the end
Speaker 2: of the day with this man.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Wow, you guys will far more about that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not fun what we're about to listen to.
Speaker 4: All right. This was based on a lot of crimes and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just start and some I don't even think
Speaker 2: are fully connected, but they were in the wiki and
Speaker 2: I researched them. So here we are. Well because it's
Speaker 2: so hard, because everything is so interesting. Okay, So the
Speaker 2: first one is Susan Tereskwitts, and she was a worker
Speaker 2: at the Logan Airport. At the end of each crime,
Speaker 2: you'll be like, does it connect? Okay, a new game,
Speaker 2: A new game with tragedy. A worker at Logan Airport
Speaker 2: in Boston was murdered on September thirteen, nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 2: She was twenty seven years old. She loved roller skating
Speaker 2: and snoopy. We never really get facts about the victims,
Speaker 2: and so I'm really happy we got a little flare
Speaker 2: of her personality. She was a ramp crew chief for
Speaker 2: Northwest Airlines, which is not a thing anymore. They merged
Speaker 2: with Delta. She was working an overnight shift on Saturday
Speaker 2: night on September twelfth, and then she left to go
Speaker 2: get sandwiches from the beachmont roast beef for her coworkers,
Speaker 2: and she never came back. Susan was found thirty six
Speaker 2: hours later, beaten and stabbed to death, and her body
Speaker 2: was stuffed into the trunk of her small blue Toyota
Speaker 2: Tursell and left outside of an auto repair shop on
Speaker 2: Route one A in Revere. So the work not rivilla, Yeah,
Speaker 2: oh no, I've been to the Rivia Beach Cauntival. That's
Speaker 2: why I put all the facts in because I thought
Speaker 2: you would oh man. Yeah, well, and this is unsolved,
Speaker 2: so I'm putting as many details as I can because
Speaker 2: the tip line is still open.
Speaker 4: Oh oh god, okay, if anyone is listening.
Speaker 2: So the workers told the Harold that the car was
Speaker 2: there when they arrived for their shift that Monday morning.
Speaker 2: Her mother, Marlene, did an interview with w b Z
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, and she thinks that a coworker did
Speaker 2: it because she knew about a credit card scam that's
Speaker 2: the connection run by some of the other workers. And
Speaker 2: her mom believes there was a cover up, and the
Speaker 2: Boston Herald said, Marlene thinks it was backed by an
Speaker 2: organized crime backed operation. Oh no, And it's pretty significant
Speaker 2: that none of her coworkers reported her missing. So were
Speaker 2: they trying to cover for her like as coworkers do.
Speaker 2: Were they afraid of those who were harassing her or
Speaker 2: with someone like? Were some aware that what was going
Speaker 2: to happen to her? So two fellow Northwest employees, Joseph
Speaker 2: Nuzzo and Edward Flaherty, would be indicted in federal court
Speaker 2: in Boston in January nineteen ninety five on charges of
Speaker 2: stealing credit cards from United States It's mail entrusted to
Speaker 2: the airline and running a fraud racket with them from
Speaker 2: April nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety two. Oh And
Speaker 2: Flaherty plied guilty March thirtieth, nineteen ninety five and said
Speaker 2: he did it to support his cocaine and gambling habit,
Speaker 2: which is understandable.
Speaker 4: As you do. And then Nuzo.
Speaker 2: Pled guilty as well. May twelfth, nineteen ninety five. First
Speaker 2: five separate male theft charges, two credit card fraud charges,
Speaker 2: and a conspiracy charge, and thirty five people were convicted
Speaker 2: on federal charges with their involvement in this scheme, so
Speaker 2: it wasn't just those two guys, and all ten of
Speaker 2: the baggage handlers charged plied guilty. The court documents from
Speaker 2: this case revealed that a bunch of her coworkers had
Speaker 2: harassed her and feared that she would testify about the
Speaker 2: credit card ring to the Boston and this is to
Speaker 2: the Boston Heralds that's who reported this. Marlene said there
Speaker 2: was no headway in the case for years, and she
Speaker 2: was the first one to go to the restaurant to
Speaker 2: confirm that Susan never arrived there, like the cops never
Speaker 2: even questioned the boys shop place, like it wasn't somewhat
Speaker 2: like the subspot, like she wants to get rope place,
Speaker 2: and no one ever like talked with the restaurant for years,
Speaker 2: like that seems so crazy, or to try to get
Speaker 2: security camp footage, like I'm just so confused. But the
Speaker 2: police didn't track her phone calls either. And then twelve
Speaker 2: years later a new mass State Police investigation team took
Speaker 2: over and the detective lieutenants Joseph Flaherty, I guess a
Speaker 2: real popular name, and Bob Murphy, and they try to
Speaker 2: finally track down the call, but it's like a little
Speaker 2: too late. And then for fifteen of the last twenty
Speaker 2: three years, Marlene has stood outside the airport every September
Speaker 2: thirteenth and fourteenth holding a sign asking for information. As
Speaker 2: of September twenty twenty four, still nobody's been arrested for
Speaker 2: the crime. There's a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: reward for the information, and the mom has a letter
Speaker 2: from Delta saying they would honor the original reward from
Speaker 2: like the defunct airlines, So there it is there. And
Speaker 2: no matter how small the information, you know, small things
Speaker 2: always solve crimes. So it's Suffolk County Detective Unit is
Speaker 2: six one seven seven to two seven eight eight one seven.
Speaker 2: So I think that case is more about the credit
Speaker 2: card and schemes and stuff like that. Yeah, that happened
Speaker 2: with the you know, the yuppie looking couple at the end,
Speaker 2: not yuppie waspy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I forget the I mix, I mix all the
Speaker 4: things up. Okay.
Speaker 2: The next case is Chad McDonald's. So Chad McDonald junior
Speaker 2: was a juvenile. This is actually like insane. This is
Speaker 2: about I think the safety of informants. Okay and eight Okay,
Speaker 2: this is wild. So Chad McDonald's junior was a juvenile
Speaker 2: police snitch. The juvenile police snitch should not be a word.
Speaker 1: I mean, like a snitch who's like under eighteen a child.
Speaker 4: This it's insane.
Speaker 2: So basically he had a nice, you know, balancing life.
Speaker 2: So he was a police snitch, but also a drug
Speaker 2: added he was a runner and a go between that
Speaker 2: used his prize truck for a meth career service. So
Speaker 2: if you wanted meth and you were in this area
Speaker 2: called ORBA Linda, which is a northwest suburb of Orange County.
Speaker 2: You could contact him and you can get meth. And
Speaker 2: this is according to the La Times. Everyone knew that
Speaker 2: high school kids drug dealers. Police, they all knew. So
Speaker 2: when a Braya traffic cop pulled McDonald over on a
Speaker 2: Tuesday afternoon January sixth, nineteen ninety eight, he told MacDonald
Speaker 2: that his name and vehicle were floating around as being
Speaker 2: involved in drug dealing and asked if it was true.
Speaker 2: He said, he used to be, but like not anymore.
Speaker 2: But they arrested him. So they arrested him with possession
Speaker 2: of ten point nine to nine grams of meth. And
Speaker 2: then the cops were like, hey, we'll drop these drug
Speaker 2: charges if you turn into a snitch.
Speaker 4: And then of course he was found tortured and murdered.
Speaker 2: Oh god, So his girlfriend was raped and shot and
Speaker 2: left for dead in the Angel's National Forest and she
Speaker 2: was bloody and wandering the wilderness, I mean, shot in
Speaker 2: the fucking jaw and lived and the last week of
Speaker 2: his life. What led to these events was words circulated
Speaker 2: on the streets that he was cooperating with the police.
Speaker 2: So he stayed away from home and was like in
Speaker 2: a motel in Norwalk and made regular visits to a
Speaker 2: drug house and hal Court Avenue, And there are arguments
Speaker 2: where the family's lawyer, Lloyd Charton, said that he was
Speaker 2: going to the house to set up one last deal
Speaker 2: for the cops, but the Braya police said they already
Speaker 2: dropped him as an informant and were moving forward with
Speaker 2: criminal drug possession charges against the youth.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't trust anyone. I don't know what's
Speaker 4: going on. But I don't know.
Speaker 2: But while working for the cops though as as an informant,
Speaker 2: he never stopped dealing and making money as a drug person,
Speaker 2: So like that's kind of an issue.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Justin Wright a former class but he's also a
Speaker 2: young teen child, so I don't understand why the police
Speaker 2: would ever ask him to do this. Justin Wright, a
Speaker 2: former classmate, said he would sit in the passenger seat
Speaker 2: of his truck and watch him sell drugs and then
Speaker 2: he used that excuse that he was working for the
Speaker 2: cops to explain and his mother why he was out
Speaker 2: so late. So then he bought meth on January fifteenth
Speaker 2: from a woman from that house that I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: Like this drug house and then a few days later
Speaker 2: that house was raided. No drugs were found, no arrests
Speaker 2: were made, but that woman shows up in February after
Speaker 2: telling gang members that he's the one that narked you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. And this is according to the
Speaker 2: lawyer to the La Times. So then two people pulled
Speaker 2: guns on the McDonald's as he denied he was working
Speaker 2: with the cops, and he like was you know, tried
Speaker 2: to live and they let him go and he was
Speaker 2: able to go back to the motel and meet up
Speaker 2: with his sixteen year old girlfriend and then they went
Speaker 2: back to the house to do more drugs. Unfortunately, while partying,
Speaker 2: Florence Leila Noriega twenty eight walked up to the girlfriend
Speaker 2: and punched her in the face and then turned to
Speaker 2: Chris and called him a snitch, and then Michael Lucas
Speaker 2: Martinez twenty one and Jose al Fredo Ebara nineteen jumped
Speaker 2: him and began to beat him. That morning, the girlfriend's
Speaker 2: mom called the cops to report her missing. After the
Speaker 2: La County Sheriff found her, they called Cindy McDonald to
Speaker 2: tell her about her son's girlfriend, but she also had
Speaker 2: not heard from her son for five days and then
Speaker 2: encouraged her to fill out a missing person's report, but
Speaker 2: it was too late because his body was found in
Speaker 2: a South la alley on March third, nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2: The three people convicted of the murder were sentenced to
Speaker 2: life in prison. You know, it's two men and the
Speaker 2: women that I named jose Bara Michael Martinez, Florence Noriega,
Speaker 2: the girlfriend eighteen. She fucking testified at the trial and
Speaker 2: she said she could hear McDonald being strangled in the
Speaker 2: living room while she was being detained in the kitchen.
Speaker 5: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And then this case helped lead to some new California
Speaker 2: laws regulating the use of miners as police informants.
Speaker 4: What a good idea.
Speaker 2: The new law requires miners to get their parents to
Speaker 2: obtain permission from a judge before they become a police informant,
Speaker 2: and they can't be twelve or younger, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: thirteen to seventeen. If a judge allows it, they could
Speaker 2: do it. But sad, sad case. Wow, really upsetting, and
Speaker 2: the cops could have helped to It's just like disgusting
Speaker 2: because obviously, if we lived in a functional society like
Speaker 2: you could just help the team get off drugs. I
Speaker 2: put them into a rehab court ordered and not be like,
Speaker 2: well you go to prison or you work for us,
Speaker 2: Like what to a team?
Speaker 5: I know?
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: The next case is Alisha cousequits so two thousand and two.
Speaker 2: This was one of the first cases in the country
Speaker 2: that spotlighted online predators who target young people and garnered
Speaker 2: national attention and triggered an FBI manhunt. So, at thirteen
Speaker 2: years old, Alisha was lured into a conversation by an
Speaker 2: online predator who groomed her for months with like flattery
Speaker 2: and you know, all the usual stuff before abducting her.
Speaker 2: Her brother introduced her to playing game on the internet,
Speaker 2: and she was like super excited to play with other people.
Speaker 2: She got a screen name, went online, just like normal
Speaker 2: stuff of that time. But there wasn't a lot of
Speaker 2: education of like what the internet can do. So I
Speaker 2: don't think a lot of people were like on guard.
Speaker 2: So she started talking to someone who she thought was
Speaker 2: just a boy her age, and he listened to everything
Speaker 2: she said and gave her advice and comforted her for
Speaker 2: nine months before the subduction. So January first, two thousand
Speaker 2: and two in Pittsburgh, which is crazy to do it
Speaker 2: on New Year's Day.
Speaker 4: It's like so like the fact this is New Year's
Speaker 4: Day is wild.
Speaker 2: So she sat with her family eating a traditional Polish
Speaker 2: New Year's dinner when she told her mom, like her
Speaker 2: stomach hurt and she wanted to go lay down before dessert.
Speaker 4: But she didn't go upstairs to her room.
Speaker 2: She went out the front door to say a quick
Speaker 2: hello to this new friend she knew from the internet.
Speaker 2: And this person was waiting in a car park down
Speaker 2: the block, and she remembers the silence and the cold,
Speaker 2: and her intuition hit her like, wait, I think this
Speaker 2: is dangerous and I don't know what I'm doing here,
Speaker 2: and I should go back home. But the moment she
Speaker 2: turned around to start walking back, she heard her name
Speaker 2: being called, and then she was snatched into a man's car.
Speaker 2: He squeezed her hands so tight it hurts so bad
Speaker 2: that and then he told her you better be good
Speaker 2: and be quiet, and then she saw handcuffs and ropes
Speaker 2: in the backseat. So he was driving and driving. I
Speaker 2: mean they even stopped. They stopped at a toll booth
Speaker 2: and she's like, okay, this is it, Like someone's gonna
Speaker 2: help me. No one helped her, so then she was
Speaker 2: feeling a lot of fear terror. Obviously, they drove for
Speaker 2: like five hours outside of Pittsburgh to Virginia, so that's
Speaker 2: crossing of state lines. And then he pulled her out
Speaker 2: of the car into the house, dragged her down a
Speaker 2: flight of stairs and put her in the basement with
Speaker 2: a padlock on the door.
Speaker 4: Everyone's fucking nightmare.
Speaker 2: He took off all her clothes and so she was
Speaker 2: naked and he said this is going to be really
Speaker 2: hard for you. It's okay, cry and that's quoted by
Speaker 2: the BBC.
Speaker 5: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: And then the details are grim for sure.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: He put a dog collar on her neck and then
Speaker 2: dragged her upstairs to his bedroom and he changed her
Speaker 2: to the floor with the collar, and she spent four
Speaker 2: days there being raped and tortured by this man. And
Speaker 2: she knew she had to be to survive because this
Speaker 2: dude already did unspeakable things to her, and you know,
Speaker 2: he kidnapped a child, so she knew murder wasn't off
Speaker 2: the table. So like, even though she was a young teen,
Speaker 2: she did have like instincts for survival, and so she
Speaker 2: knew she had to behave and like, so on the
Speaker 2: fourth day, he said, I'm beginning to like you too much.
Speaker 2: Tonight we're going to go for a ride. And this
Speaker 2: is in the BBC and then in that moment she
Speaker 2: was like, oh, fuck, he's going to kill me. So
Speaker 2: and then he fed her for the first time in
Speaker 2: four days and then left for work, and she started
Speaker 2: to accept her own death. And then she heard like
Speaker 2: the sounds of angry men banging on the door downstairs,
Speaker 2: and her brain was like, oh, they're trying to kill me.
Speaker 2: So she rolled under the bed and she stayed quiet.
Speaker 2: But it was the FBI. They found my god, thank god.
Speaker 2: She was chained, you know, not wearing clothes. She was
Speaker 2: like trying to just cover herself up, but they cut
Speaker 2: the chain from her let her free. And then when
Speaker 2: she was held, the kidnapper broadcast himself abusing her online.
Speaker 2: So all of this was online and one of the
Speaker 2: reviewers recognized the girl from the missing person's poster. So
Speaker 2: this pedophile, I guess is a good Samaritan, but like,
Speaker 2: my thing is, so he saw the missing person posters,
Speaker 2: recognize this girl being abused, contacted the authorities. But who
Speaker 2: does he think the other children are? If he didn't
Speaker 2: see the posters, like you know what I mean, did
Speaker 2: he think those kids were volunteers.
Speaker 4: It's like so weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so good for this creep, but like what, thank
Speaker 2: god he like got over his own fear of probably
Speaker 2: getting prosecuted for being a pedophile. I wonder if he
Speaker 2: made a deal, Like I am really curious about that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, the greater majority of kids that are rescued
Speaker 2: is actually due to missing posters and alerts. So you know,
Speaker 2: Alicia says, like, please pay attention, pay attention to these things,
Speaker 2: because that is how she was saved. And this creep
Speaker 2: went to a phone box and called the FBI and
Speaker 2: gave them the screen name of the abuser, which then
Speaker 2: led the FBI to find his IP address, which led
Speaker 2: them to her. And she feels like they the FBI
Speaker 2: got there like only she said, like a half hour
Speaker 2: before he was scheduled to come home. So you know,
Speaker 2: she could have been dead, Like we really don't know
Speaker 2: what could have happened to her, where this ride could
Speaker 2: have been.
Speaker 1: So she was and she was with him for like
Speaker 1: a total of like four or five days, right, four days.
Speaker 1: And she now has a master's degree in forensic psychology,
Speaker 1: She's dedicated her her life to educating parents and children
Speaker 1: about the dangers of the internet. She tells People Magazine
Speaker 1: that it's part of her healing and literally it's about
Speaker 1: saving lives. And she's on the speaker circuit, so that's
Speaker 1: her full time job. She started going into schools giving
Speaker 1: presentations starting at fourteen years old. Because she tells the
Speaker 1: BBC that people are nuts and sometimes we'll say to
Speaker 1: her like, oh my god, you're so lucky.
Speaker 2: Oh it was awesome that you were only taking for
Speaker 2: four days. I mean, it could have been worse.
Speaker 1: And I was saying four days honestly because I was
Speaker 1: like surprised that the FEDS got her so fast, Like
Speaker 1: I'm find how quick they worked.
Speaker 2: Didn't I didn't think you were, Yes, just to clarify,
Speaker 2: no one thought that. But I can imagine people saying
Speaker 2: crazy things to her in that way of like oh,
Speaker 2: oh you got off easy, and it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess being raped chained for four days as a
Speaker 2: breeze like fucking idiots.
Speaker 5: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: No. But the FBI also, I don't think would have
Speaker 2: gotten her without this tip. You know, It's like, right,
Speaker 2: if this pedophile didn't suddenly have like a stroke of
Speaker 2: conscient or what is it? Like, Well, it's like even
Speaker 2: like to get to the FEDS, like half the time
Speaker 2: to pick a police are like, are you sure she
Speaker 2: didn't just run away? You know, like if nobody saw
Speaker 2: her get snatched into that car. That's why the New
Speaker 2: Year's Day is crazy, Yeah, because it is. Even if
Speaker 2: it's not like a holiday holiday, it is a holiday,
Speaker 2: Like because I'm.
Speaker 4: Sure he knew she was Polish.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not saying that he's like a culturally
Speaker 2: intuitive man, but it's like, yeah, she's gonna be with
Speaker 2: her family on New Year's Day.
Speaker 4: Yeah whatever.
Speaker 2: Crazy So and she says even twenty years later, like
Speaker 2: the triggers pop up all the time. A roadside can
Speaker 2: send her into a panic attack, the sight of a strain,
Speaker 2: you're wearing a Pittsburgh Steelers hat, anything like triggers these
Speaker 2: horrific memories and this is, you know, decades later, and
Speaker 2: it's just something that I think we re emphasized time
Speaker 2: and time again about like Trump and the NSVIW does
Speaker 2: like about the trauma and how it sicks with you.
Speaker 2: And then the criminal pedophile rapist. He was thirty eight
Speaker 2: year old Scott Tyree. He pled guilty. He was sentenced
Speaker 2: to jail and served seventeen years behind bars in North Carolina,
Speaker 2: which I don't think is enough. He was also paroled,
Speaker 2: which I disagree with.
Speaker 4: Then he was.
Speaker 1: After holding a child for four days. They were like,
Speaker 1: this man can be rehabilitated. Yeah, so they let him out.
Speaker 2: They transferred him, Oh my god, to like a house
Speaker 2: that was in Pittsburgh, only four miles from Malicia's parents' house.
Speaker 5: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: He broke pearole quickly.
Speaker 2: Uh, he visited porn sites and a judge revoked his
Speaker 2: probation and sentenced him for that parole violation. And he
Speaker 2: was sentenced to two more years in twenty nineteen to
Speaker 2: be served in Ohio. But I found him in the
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania Sex Registry that was updated March twentieth, twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: so recently, and it says he's still incarcerated. So I
Speaker 2: know it said he only got two more years, but
Speaker 2: he is still in prison. So I don't know if
Speaker 2: it was an additional charge or like he did something
Speaker 2: in prison, or they finally realized he shouldn't be let out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think he should be in prison for life.
Speaker 4: But he is.
Speaker 2: He is incarcerated, according to the Pennsylvania Sex Registry in
Speaker 2: March twentieth, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: No, that's life in prison. Like that's like something there's
Speaker 1: a wiring problem up there.
Speaker 4: That's fucked. Oh my god, that's so scary.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that she was able to, like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, help people, help people, yeah, like turn her
Speaker 1: story into it's like, I mean, that's what people need
Speaker 1: to That is what kids need to hear from. They
Speaker 1: need to hear from someone that's like, yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: I was just talking to like a cool guy online,
Speaker 1: you know, and like it turned into a fucking nightmare.
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know how kids are talking to
Speaker 1: people online anymore. Is just like Instagram or like what
Speaker 1: or snapchat people probably.
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 4: We can't, we can't. I mean, I mean, I just
Speaker 4: don't know if.
Speaker 1: Like chat rooms are still a thing, you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like it has to be more maybe.
Speaker 2: Reddit or I don't discord is a word I've been hearing,
Speaker 2: So I don't know. Yeah, So the next two cases,
Speaker 2: it's they're similar. It's like operation like worldwide operations to
Speaker 2: bring down pedophiles. So we have Operation Avalanche and Operation Cathedral.
Speaker 2: So Operation Avalanche was and it's so funny every time
Speaker 2: you read one of these things that's like the world's
Speaker 2: largest pedophile ring was brought down. But it's like every year,
Speaker 2: constantly forever, like right, So at this point, and I
Speaker 2: guess Operation Cathedral was first, I'll do that one first.
Speaker 1: Wait, can I also just say one quick thing? That
Speaker 1: last story like that happened? What in two thousand and
Speaker 1: four you said, yeah, three, Like this girl that my
Speaker 1: was in my sister's grade met a predator online and
Speaker 1: met him at a swim meet and he molested her
Speaker 1: and she wrote a book about it called Katie dot Com.
Speaker 1: And it was like one of the first times I
Speaker 1: ever heard of anything like that. And it was like
Speaker 1: in the late nineties that it happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's the thing.
Speaker 2: It's like every new technology is overrun by criminals and
Speaker 2: sex trade stuff immediately.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The pedophiles are constantly finding new ways to be lunatics
Speaker 2: fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, like why do you have to like if
Speaker 1: you're that guy, like why are you broadcasting? I don't know,
Speaker 1: I just look for like immunity it's like finding other friends.
Speaker 1: It's but it's like even the guy. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like, are there any pedophiles out there that
Speaker 1: are just like doing it and not like recording every
Speaker 1: second of it, you know what I mean? It just
Speaker 1: feels like such a thing where there's always photos and
Speaker 1: video and so much like.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's also coding so hard to get a victim.
Speaker 4: That like then you want to remember it forever.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's just creepy, like trophy reliving, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right. And yeah, it's like normal criminal behavior without
Speaker 1: any depth. So crazy how there's always like.
Speaker 2: They're also sharing. It's what we talk about where it's
Speaker 2: like one porn is not enough. They need thousands, they
Speaker 2: need thousands. So yeah, let me start. So, Operation Cathedral
Speaker 2: was a law enforcement operation across fifteen countries and it
Speaker 2: focused on investigating the Wonderland pedophile ring and it resulted
Speaker 2: in the largest sever world wise seizure of child pornography
Speaker 2: until the next operation the next year. Yeah, I love Okay.
Speaker 2: So this was in nineteen ninety eight and it started
Speaker 2: when detectives were investigating a pedophile ring known as the
Speaker 2: Orchid Club, and that was in the United States in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, and that investigations sparked from a nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety six rape of an eight year old girl that
Speaker 2: was broadcast live and Ronald Reva, the California pedophile rapist,
Speaker 2: was part of this club and it grew. So then
Speaker 2: mona man was traced to the UK named Ian Baldock.
Speaker 2: It started like a big thing, So it started in
Speaker 2: the US and then eventually was led by the British
Speaker 2: National Crime Squad And after seizing this creeps computer, they
Speaker 2: found forty two thousand images and links to a much
Speaker 2: larger international Internet based pedophile ring. And there was one
Speaker 2: hundred and forty five male members and not wait, what
Speaker 2: is it? Not all men but always a man?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Is that the nikky quote from her Gloves? Yeah? Weird?
Speaker 2: I guess, just one hundred and forty five not all
Speaker 2: men in here, okay. So the Wonderland was an invite
Speaker 2: only and you're gonna love this, so you're gonna hate it, okay.
Speaker 2: But membership was restricted to those who possessed at least
Speaker 2: ten thousand, preteen images of illegal child's abuse images, So
Speaker 2: you needed ten thousand of your own illegal pedophile porn
Speaker 2: to get into the club. Oh my god, that's your
Speaker 2: entryway unless you could prove that you do so. And
Speaker 2: also with Wonderland, the O was made into a zero
Speaker 2: to make it harder to find. So in the late
Speaker 2: eight nineties, I guess that was high end technology, Like
Speaker 2: my fucking internet passwords are harder than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: how many fucking more symbols the week password?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So September two, nineteen ninety eight, authorities carried out a
Speaker 2: coordinated sting and they had to so that, you know,
Speaker 2: the pedophiles didn't communicate with each other. So then more
Speaker 2: than a quarter million pedophile images were uncovered. This was
Speaker 2: and some of this was on floppy discs, compact discs, videotapes,
Speaker 2: and so with those numbers, it brought up to seven
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand obscene pictures floppy discs for pedophile
Speaker 2: Like I just ca okay, and unfortunately I will share
Speaker 2: this fact.
Speaker 4: No one wants to hear it.
Speaker 2: But kids is youngest three months and the database of
Speaker 2: more than twelve hundred children circulated in our poll. Two
Speaker 2: hundred search warrants were issued, one hundred men were arrested
Speaker 2: in one hundred and seven coordinator raids across three continents.
Speaker 2: This was the largest international police operation mounted against any crime.
Speaker 2: But for some reason, the UK has super low sentences
Speaker 2: for pedophiles. I guess it's because of the royal family.
Speaker 2: Like I don't knowh my god, so like at the
Speaker 2: time they increased the penalty and the max is still
Speaker 2: only ten years. The max used to be three years. Wow,
Speaker 2: and that's for distribution. Possession went from six months to
Speaker 2: five years, so for distribution of child sex abuse images
Speaker 2: the max had to be changed to only still ten
Speaker 2: years Jesus. The head guy was Peter Giardano, which fuck
Speaker 2: you for tainting my pizza. Restaurant was thirty seven at
Speaker 2: the time, and his nickname was Harry Mudd And I
Speaker 2: guess that was a star Trek thing.
Speaker 4: So nerds can be pedophiles too.
Speaker 2: And he was a sales clerk for an electronics supply
Speaker 2: store and lived with his parents. He was arrested by
Speaker 2: US Customs agents at his home in New York. He
Speaker 2: pled guilty for distributing child sex abuse images. He admitted
Speaker 2: it in Federal District Court in Brooklyn and admitted Wonderland
Speaker 2: was named after Alice. In Wonderland, he operated the site
Speaker 2: from March ninety seven to ninety eight. And he's only face.
Speaker 2: He was only facing eleven and a half years. And
Speaker 2: I couldn't find anything. I couldn't find him on a registry.
Speaker 2: I couldn't find his records in prison. I couldn't find
Speaker 2: shit about this guy. I think he changed his name
Speaker 2: and I don't know. Yeah, couldn't find an obituary, couldn't
Speaker 2: find nothing on this guy.
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, if he's an internet guy, maybe he figured
Speaker 1: out how to get rid of all that shit about
Speaker 1: him too.
Speaker 2: Only faced eleven and a half years. Like, I really
Speaker 2: don't understand. I really don't understand. So the other operation
Speaker 2: which happened after was the world's largest child porn investigation.
Speaker 4: That began.
Speaker 2: It's Operation Avalanche. It began in the US and the
Speaker 2: code name was OA. Avalanche began in ninety nine when
Speaker 2: postal inspectors discover that a Fort Worth, Texas company, Landslide Productions, Inc.
Speaker 2: Operated and owned by scumbag married couple Thomas and Janis Reedy.
Speaker 2: Customers from around the world were paying monthly subscription fees
Speaker 2: via post office box a peal box. I don't know
Speaker 2: why I spelled it all out so the postal Inspectors
Speaker 2: and the Dallas ICAAC Task Force teamed together initiated what
Speaker 2: would become a child exploitation case of unprecedented magnitude. His
Speaker 2: empire included two hundred and fifty thousand subscribers across three
Speaker 2: continents and making one point four million dollars a month.
Speaker 2: And you know what, I bet there are men alive
Speaker 2: and well right now that are more pissed that only
Speaker 2: fans adult women make that much money a mon than
Speaker 2: they are that these pedophiles are. Yeah, for sure, a
Speaker 2: tax i just like it just sickens me. So he
Speaker 2: realized he can make money by providing the technical know
Speaker 2: how to allow secure access to porn sites while protecting
Speaker 2: the identity of the user. Him and his creep accomplices
Speaker 2: built a network of sites and data stores, and even
Speaker 2: though it was operating through a quote unquote gateway in Texas,
Speaker 2: the material that was being access it was cited around
Speaker 2: the world, mostly in Russia and Indonesia. And the big
Speaker 2: simple piece of the detective work that led officers to
Speaker 2: the first arrests were credit card numbers. All the subscribers
Speaker 2: had to provide a credit card number so that Redi's
Speaker 2: gateway could verify who they were before charging them for
Speaker 2: access to five seven hundred sites within the network. He
Speaker 2: was found guilty December two thousand of eighty nine charges.
Speaker 2: On a Monday, August sixth two thousand and one, a
Speaker 2: Texas computer consultant, Thomas Redi was jailed for three hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty five years. WHOA, Now that's a sentence. That's
Speaker 2: what you get for distributing child pornography. But I bet
Speaker 2: it's because of the credit cards. Like that's what it is.
Speaker 2: It's because of the Yeah, some credit cards, has nothing
Speaker 2: to do with like abusing children. So he got yeah once, yeah,
Speaker 2: that many years. And then his wife, also part of
Speaker 2: the operation, was jailed. So fuck Janie and she got
Speaker 2: fourteen years in prison.
Speaker 5: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: This was a two year investigation and it was successful
Speaker 2: and dismantling the largest commercial child sex abuse image enterprise
Speaker 2: ever at that point uncovered and like they took down
Speaker 2: Landslide Productions.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm sure there's been like, yeah, fifty
Speaker 1: thousand more of these busts ever since. Operation Cathedral seems
Speaker 1: a little bit. Cathedrals are like religious buildings, and it
Speaker 1: just feels like that's where a lot of pedophilia is happening.
Speaker 1: So maybe don't call it that, but operation Avalanche makes
Speaker 1: perfect sense, getting bigger, like an avalanche just snowballs bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger as you go.
Speaker 2: Like ugh, yeah, oh my god, it's devastating, it's annoying.
Speaker 2: And the loudest people are the ones pretending to care
Speaker 2: about this, you know, yeah, like you know, oh, no,
Speaker 2: human trafficking. And it's like Matt Gates is truly a
Speaker 2: human trafficking pedophile.
Speaker 4: No one cares.
Speaker 2: I just our presidents as Brett Kavanaugh's rapist.
Speaker 4: I mean, no one care. It's from the top.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's just like it's like but it's
Speaker 1: like adult porn nography is so readily available now, and
Speaker 1: I just these are people that are just attracted to children.
Speaker 1: And I don't know what we do about that castration.
Speaker 1: I'm a big proponent of crass castration. Chemical castration.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's what I should ask to go on subway
Speaker 2: takes with we need a chemically castrates a pedophiles.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, but that episode was harrowing, and but we
Speaker 1: did get to see stable or go to fake prague.
Speaker 4: Don't go anywhere We've got a great guest.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is a prolific film actor who has
Speaker 1: played both the boy next door in films like Stella
Speaker 1: and Stealing Home, but also a terrifying serial killer in
Speaker 1: a film that haunted me as a Clank Family classic
Speaker 1: called Copycat. However, you know him best for his very
Speaker 1: brief run as Elliott Stabler's new partner, Detective Sam Bishop.
Speaker 1: Please enjoy our chat with William McNamara.
Speaker 4: Well, this happened so long ago, this episode.
Speaker 2: Are there things like right off the bat that you
Speaker 2: remember that we're exciting some scoop?
Speaker 5: Well, it's it's crazy because I was. I. I had
Speaker 5: moved back to New York for a couple of years,
Speaker 5: and so right when I got there, my agent Quo said, Hey,
Speaker 5: that the producers of of v Loder Wander want to
Speaker 5: meet with you of like all the law and order
Speaker 5: shows that we're in New York whatever that is. And
Speaker 5: so I was like, oh great. They said they're interested
Speaker 5: in possibly, you know, having you on the show. And
Speaker 5: I thought it was going to be like a guest star,
Speaker 5: like a bad guy, you know, maybe a pedophile or
Speaker 5: some kind of criminal, you know, wife beaters, something like that,
Speaker 5: and so I went and I met with them and
Speaker 5: there's like fifteen people in the room. They were super
Speaker 5: nice to me, and and I said, oh, so, what
Speaker 5: are you guys thinking, Like like a two part guest
Speaker 5: star would be great, and they said, oh no, no, no,
Speaker 5: we're actually we're thinking about having you come on. The
Speaker 5: show isn't a news series regular.
Speaker 4: It's wow.
Speaker 5: I was shocked. I was like, oh, wow, that's that
Speaker 5: would be great. That's not what I was expecting. I
Speaker 5: had no idea what the meeting was about. The agent
Speaker 5: ever told me. So anyway, they said, yeah, let us
Speaker 5: think about it, and let us think of there's something
Speaker 5: we could do, and then and then we'll get back
Speaker 5: to you. I don't know whatever. You know, you hear
Speaker 5: that stuff all the time in the rooms and and
Speaker 5: then nothing really comes up. But then yes, they called
Speaker 5: me and said we have this this thing we want
Speaker 5: to do, you know, just off the top six episodes.
Speaker 5: And they offered me very little money, which was fine.
Speaker 5: They said, you need us more than we need you.
Speaker 5: I said whatever. I said, Okay, no worries. And so
Speaker 5: I don't know if you guys know this, but I
Speaker 5: wonder if I should talk about this, but I don't,
Speaker 5: you know, I don't think you don't think like Chris
Speaker 5: Maloney and Musco harget Tae get along too well? Is that?
Speaker 4: Wow? No, we're we're excited to hear that.
Speaker 5: I think they do.
Speaker 1: Now today they're always like posing in photos together and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I think maybe back then it's possible because like this,
Speaker 1: this is season four, This is like the beginning of
Speaker 1: pretty much the beginning, you.
Speaker 5: Know, And I think they wanted to somehow get them
Speaker 5: both new partners. Woa, So I became Chris's I was
Speaker 5: supposed to become Chris's new partner, transferring from homicide to
Speaker 5: Special Victims. Yeah, because our paths crossed, because I was
Speaker 5: investigating homicide and our paths cross and I really like
Speaker 5: su so I was supposed to become a new character
Speaker 5: and his partner. Meanwhile, marisk Hain got a new partner too,
Speaker 5: which is a guy. Back then I can't remember that
Speaker 5: was didn't she get married?
Speaker 2: I'll never let her be happy. She can never get married,
Speaker 2: they keep on the show. Yes, yes, yes, but her
Speaker 2: husband in real life is a lawyer. On the show,
Speaker 2: he's not a cop, so okay. But yeah, so it
Speaker 2: was something to do with that. Uh that so because
Speaker 2: Chris is very abrasive.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've heard.
Speaker 5: And he right off the bat just didn't like me immediately,
Speaker 5: Oh god, and uh and and made it no, he
Speaker 5: wasn't going behind my back and saying he was on
Speaker 5: the set all the time saying stuff and just.
Speaker 2: That must be hard to work while someone is saying
Speaker 2: they don't the making it clear they don't like you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then and so I think that I think
Speaker 5: they made me for all six episodes, which is nice,
Speaker 5: but they said, oh it's you know, Chris is so unhappy.
Speaker 5: We can't have that. And I think another guy came.
Speaker 5: I think they brought another guy and I don't.
Speaker 1: Well, well, it's funny because like it actually becomes kind
Speaker 1: of a trope on the show where he has to
Speaker 1: work with another guy and if they don't start working together,
Speaker 1: they're not going to solve the case. And they butt
Speaker 1: heads because they have different styles, but they're both rogue
Speaker 1: guys that do things march to the beat of their
Speaker 1: own drum. And like you're one of those classic guys.
Speaker 1: Maybe you're one of the first because you're so early
Speaker 1: in the episode. But they do that with him many
Speaker 1: more times. And he doesn't really ever get another partner
Speaker 1: besides her because no.
Speaker 5: Because he kept not approving Again that found out later
Speaker 5: on they said, we don't worry, Billy, you weren't they
Speaker 5: They keep trying and he doesn't approve it to anybody.
Speaker 1: And he literally only has another partner for there's actually
Speaker 1: even it's a woman. Yeah, but there's also a storyline
Speaker 1: where Ice Tea becomes his partner and I and Finn
Speaker 1: hates working with him. Finn's like, oh God, I gotta
Speaker 1: be partners with this guy, and he requests not to be,
Speaker 1: and then he becomes partners with another woman when when
Speaker 1: when Mushka Hargete was out on maternity leave, and that's
Speaker 1: the only time he really ever could have another partner.
Speaker 4: Interesting.
Speaker 5: So I was a part of that thing, and it
Speaker 5: was a very uncomfortable you know, working for like the
Speaker 5: week or however many days we show. I can't remember,
Speaker 5: it's been so long, but but yeah, so that it
Speaker 5: was not a great experience.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm sorry to hear that.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's so funny because I'm like thrilled to
Speaker 2: hear it, Like, yeah, we're really getting dirt. We never
Speaker 2: get this kind of information and We're very grateful to you,
Speaker 2: but sorry, it was obviously.
Speaker 1: Not because you know, the show in twenty The show's
Speaker 1: in its twenty sixth season, right, and Marishka has been
Speaker 1: there the last fourteen since he left. So the majority
Speaker 1: of the guests we have on the podcast are like,
Speaker 1: Marishka Hargatee got me my agent, she let me cry
Speaker 1: on her shoulder after my mom died. I mean like
Speaker 1: she literally is an angel to all these people. And
Speaker 1: then anyone that has to work more one on one
Speaker 1: with Maloney has a little bit more of a reserved
Speaker 1: The compliments aren't quite as flowing as I'll say that,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody's more like he's good.
Speaker 4: He's intense, he's you know. But I didn't get the
Speaker 4: sense that I couldn't tell on screen.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it helped the tension of the two
Speaker 1: characters being kind of like you know, right.
Speaker 4: But now that you.
Speaker 2: Say it, it totally makes sense, because it does seem
Speaker 2: because you you just disappear mid episode, never to be
Speaker 2: heard from, so that it's not like your storyline doesn't
Speaker 2: get closed out. It's not like you go back to
Speaker 2: homicide you decide it's too much to have living victim.
Speaker 2: You know, it was weird, and now this totally makes
Speaker 2: sense why you didn't go to Prague or you know,
Speaker 2: you didn't come he didn't come here, because I continue
Speaker 2: with you, it is strange.
Speaker 1: I started to write a question, did you feel sad
Speaker 1: you didn't get to go to Prague?
Speaker 2: And then I googled it and of course they're not
Speaker 2: in Prague. They're in Greenwich Village.
Speaker 1: The entire time, you did like a one green screen
Speaker 1: insert shot on the show of him on a chech
Speaker 1: street and that was it.
Speaker 4: But so how do you get it together?
Speaker 2: Like, let's say you're on set, things are uncomfortable, this
Speaker 2: guy doesn't like you. What do you do as an
Speaker 2: actor to still perform in that kind of environment.
Speaker 5: Well, you just have to deal with it, you know,
Speaker 5: he says, to have to assist something. And I was
Speaker 5: actually at the time, I was going through a lawsuit
Speaker 5: re learning my home in Malibu, so I was also
Speaker 5: consumed with this, the situation that was happening in Malibu.
Speaker 5: So that was the He was the least of my
Speaker 5: worries at the time. So maybe that was a good
Speaker 5: thing they didn't get to me because I was you
Speaker 5: had other stuff going on. Yeah, major stuff concerning a
Speaker 5: lot of money, so it was a it was a
Speaker 5: minor concern, but it was uncomfortable working with him. He
Speaker 5: didn't like anything that I did. And I remember on
Speaker 5: one scene when we go to where we'd think the
Speaker 5: perpetrator works, but we'd go to the office and there's
Speaker 5: a receptionist and they don't. You don't really do rehearsals.
Speaker 5: They just do a quick blocking and they shoot. There's
Speaker 5: no time for rehearsals on these shows. And it's it's
Speaker 5: tough for the guest stars because because we were walking
Speaker 5: into this, they'll give us every game, so they got
Speaker 5: their character is built already. And so I flashed my
Speaker 5: badge and I was I was doing it a sort
Speaker 5: of a takeoff on the best badge flasher in the
Speaker 5: world was Steve McQueen in a movie called I think
Speaker 5: it's called Bullet, And so I thought, oh, I want
Speaker 5: to do the Steve McQueen because he does it really fast.
Speaker 5: It's a real fast thing. It's like a second nature.
Speaker 5: And so I did that and Maloney stopped for production
Speaker 5: and just started screaming at me. He said, don't ever
Speaker 5: flash your badge on my set. Why Wow, I had.
Speaker 5: I had no idea. It was just the whole thing
Speaker 5: was it was like that time after time after time
Speaker 5: after time. So it was it was shocking. It was
Speaker 5: bizarre and so.
Speaker 2: And did it seem like the rest of the crew
Speaker 2: was kind of used to it or people like what
Speaker 2: the fuck?
Speaker 5: No, they were used to it.
Speaker 4: They were used to it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, maybe he was just having a
Speaker 1: bad week or something. But it doesn't sound like it
Speaker 1: don't flash a badge on my set. It sounds like
Speaker 1: that's not a massive choice, you know, that's like a
Speaker 1: very subtle choice.
Speaker 5: That's not like Well says that she's the only person
Speaker 5: that's allowed to flash the badge on the set.
Speaker 4: Okay, so it's like a pissing contest at that point.
Speaker 5: That's like silly. And I didn't even know. I was like,
Speaker 5: you know, I wasn't trying to do a pissing contest.
Speaker 5: I was just trying to do an homage to Steve McQueen.
Speaker 5: I wasn't even thinking of him or any.
Speaker 2: So, oh, jeez, have you worked with other maniacs? You
Speaker 2: have such a long career, you work all the time.
Speaker 2: Is the stick out as one of the craziest or
Speaker 2: have you been witnessed to other looney moments? Uh?
Speaker 5: You know, there's there's there's other there's other situations. I'm
Speaker 5: not going to sure.
Speaker 4: Name names, William name names.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be our highest rated episode of all
Speaker 2: times with the information. So carah, Okay, he's in a
Speaker 2: family classic. You gotta bring Yeah, you're in.
Speaker 1: We have to talk about other movies in your career
Speaker 1: because your IMDb was really was really killing me. Like,
Speaker 1: first of all, you're in this bet Midler movie called
Speaker 1: Stella that is like a classic in my family.
Speaker 5: Oh right, yes, yes?
Speaker 1: Is that is that like a good experience making that movie?
Speaker 1: Or please don't tell me Bette Midler's bad. I can't
Speaker 1: hear it. I can't hear it.
Speaker 5: Oh no, oh no, she was, she's actually she's amazing.
Speaker 5: Actually I have to give her kudos. I had a
Speaker 5: small role in the movie and she was warming. He
Speaker 5: was in New York City and she she said, if
Speaker 5: you ever want to, you know, come see any of
Speaker 5: my shows, let me know. And so I was in
Speaker 5: New York City and she was doing some live showing.
Speaker 5: I can't know what it was. This is after Stella,
Speaker 5: And so I didn't have her number, and so I
Speaker 5: called the box office said, oh, Billy mc milla said
Speaker 5: to you know, if everon's looking for something, you know,
Speaker 5: because oh, we'll give her the message. And I never
Speaker 5: thought and whenever, I never thought i'd hear back. And
Speaker 5: now we're laying my phone. Oh hey, Billy, I worked
Speaker 5: took that and yeah you're come on down. Yeah, VIP,
Speaker 5: come on down. It's like I couldn't believe it. Wow,
Speaker 5: you got it was like her.
Speaker 1: It was like her doing like a cabaret type thing,
Speaker 1: like singing.
Speaker 5: And I can't remember what it was.
Speaker 4: Oh, man, that's so cool. She's like my ultimate.
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with her as a child, so I'd
Speaker 1: seen her whole catalog. And then famously in the movie Stella,
Speaker 1: she's like a bad mom and she has a birthday
Speaker 1: party for her daughter and forgets to send the invitation
Speaker 1: so nobody shows up. So anytime in my life where
Speaker 1: I'm having a party and I'm waiting for people to
Speaker 1: come over, I'm always like, I hope this doesn't turn
Speaker 1: into a Stella situation.
Speaker 4: So it's a it's just a big part of my life.
Speaker 1: But also the movie Copycat, I can understand why you
Speaker 1: thought when you did Law and Order SVU that you
Speaker 1: were going to be a a murderer or a villain
Speaker 1: because you play this murderer in this movie Copycat, which
Speaker 1: used to give me nightmares. All Star casts, Sigourney Weaver,
Speaker 1: ally Hunter, you, Harry Connick Junior. I used to have
Speaker 1: to close my closet doors in my room because I
Speaker 1: thought that you guys were in my closets. So excellent job,
Speaker 1: excellent job, terrifying young teens, right.
Speaker 4: But geez, like, hey, I want to watch Harry movies.
Speaker 1: You should watch Copycat because it's all about serial killers
Speaker 1: and like it's really and you have like you're you're
Speaker 1: scary in it because you have this like handsome, clean
Speaker 1: shaven face.
Speaker 4: You don't, you know.
Speaker 1: I ever, my dad used to always say to me
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy didn't look like the wolf man, you know,
Speaker 1: like you didn't, you know, like you can't trust what
Speaker 1: people like. You can't judge a book by its cover,
Speaker 1: of course, but like you don't look you look like
Speaker 1: a little nice guy, and then you're out here murdering people.
Speaker 4: And that's right.
Speaker 2: That movie is just so terrifying and oh, good job.
Speaker 2: Stories from shooting that it starts studded.
Speaker 5: That that's an interesting story of all around. It was weird.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 5: I started my career with the movie Jodie Foster called
Speaker 5: Stealing Home, Yeah, which hugely yeah, iconic. But I played
Speaker 5: the boy next door, the nice boy next door. So
Speaker 5: for years that was my entrede to Hollywood. So for
Speaker 5: years I got those kinds of roles. Hence the bet
Speaker 5: Midler movie. I was the nice boyfriend. Ben Stiller was
Speaker 5: the bad boyfriend. I played the good guy, and she
Speaker 5: ends up mirroring ben Stiller is the bad guy. So
Speaker 5: I played all those roles, which aren't that interesting. I'd
Speaker 5: rather play Ben Stiller role, to be honest with you,
Speaker 5: in that movie, I'd rather be himmed so when I
Speaker 5: wasn't so because of Stealing Home, and so for years,
Speaker 5: my agent kept trying to get me in on more
Speaker 5: edgier roles you know, that have more challenge to them.
Speaker 5: And the cast trajection was said, oh no, no, Philly's
Speaker 5: too soft, you can't play that role. So I had
Speaker 5: that for years, and then out of the blue, the
Speaker 5: director wanted me to. I met with the director John
Speaker 5: Emeial for Copycat. I read the script and I thought
Speaker 5: I was meeting for the dermomt Maulrooney role, the detective partner,
Speaker 5: the Hunter's partner. That would be the appropriate role for me.
Speaker 5: That's all I wanted. I've never never because I've been
Speaker 5: told for so many years I'm soft. I'm a soft actor,
Speaker 5: so for years and so when and the director didn't
Speaker 5: mention any moles, I didn't have to read any scenes
Speaker 5: for him. He didn't want me to read anything, just
Speaker 5: want to talk. So I assume I was for the
Speaker 5: detective partner. And a week later my agent called and
Speaker 5: said he's interested in for the movie. I said, oh,
Speaker 5: great to play Holly Hunter's partner. Be great to play
Speaker 5: her partner, you know. He said, no, they want you
Speaker 5: for the serial killer. I was like, serial killer, I
Speaker 5: don't understand. So I was actually very timid about that
Speaker 5: and thought about not doing it, really just because I
Speaker 5: didn't think well, because I was convinced I've been programs
Speaker 5: and that I was a soft actor and I had
Speaker 5: no edge. So that was my fears, like, well, everybody
Speaker 5: told tell you this, it must be true, so I
Speaker 5: can't do this role. And so my agent convinced me
Speaker 5: to do it, and I did obviously, So there you
Speaker 5: have it, and I did it. You know, a pretty
Speaker 5: good job because people and I'll tell you something a
Speaker 5: side note from the movie in La in New York
Speaker 5: to look in both places. I did very well with
Speaker 5: the young ladies. I was always doing well. And I
Speaker 5: can meet a girl and within ten minutes have her
Speaker 5: phone number and we'll get and we have a date
Speaker 5: plan every time. And so all of a sudden and
Speaker 5: I see a therapist. I see this very famous therapist,
Speaker 5: and now I heard him is Pat Allen. She's not around,
Speaker 5: but offic surrounding books, very famous, lots of books, and
Speaker 5: she's a phenomenal therapist. And so all of a sudden,
Speaker 5: I'm doing the billy back charisma charm the phone number.
Speaker 5: And the girl's like, I don't know, there's something off
Speaker 5: about you. I don't know what it is, but I
Speaker 5: don't feel comforting in my number. And it was happening
Speaker 5: so often that I told my facord place is said
Speaker 5: beat the kick, no girls will We'll go out with
Speaker 5: the kid getting phone numbers two or three a day
Speaker 5: for the last three years and now I can't get
Speaker 5: a date. And she said, huh, do you think it
Speaker 5: has anything to do with the movie Copycat. I'm like,
Speaker 5: what do you mean, Well, I saw the movie, and
Speaker 5: they don't really they don't really let people know in
Speaker 5: the advertising that you're the killer. Everybody thinks it's Harry
Speaker 5: Connick Junior, which is true. That was part of their
Speaker 5: advertising campaign. And you are very creepy in that movie.
Speaker 5: I was even disturbed, and I thought, okay, so soil
Speaker 5: next time this happens, maybe they don't recognize you from
Speaker 5: the movie because you're not prominently displayed. Your name is
Speaker 5: not over but you know, and and so you're almost
Speaker 5: like a subtle, subtlety in the movie, subconscious thing. She's
Speaker 5: a genius, this one, pat Oland, by the way, And
Speaker 5: she said, so the next time this happens, you might
Speaker 5: want to ask the girl if she's.
Speaker 4: Seen the movie copy Cat by any chance.
Speaker 5: And guess what. She was right, Wow. Next time I
Speaker 5: tried it, the girl's like, I don't know, there's something.
Speaker 5: Don't feel crypto game my number. I'm sorry. I so
Speaker 5: wait a minute, hold on, have you ever seen a
Speaker 5: movie called copy Cat? She goes, oh yeah, God, that
Speaker 5: movie scared me. I said, you remember the serial Killer?
Speaker 5: And they all this happened multiple times. Harry Connock junior.
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, Harry Connick juniors in jail, He's not the.
Speaker 4: Serial, you're the copy cat.
Speaker 5: And she's like, oh right, oh it was me right,
Speaker 5: Oh here's.
Speaker 1: My note okay, And they're like, all right, you're you're normal,
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's really funny.
Speaker 2: She started getting numbers again. I did, Yeah, figured it out.
Speaker 1: You would have you would have been like alone forever
Speaker 1: just thinking it was you.
Speaker 4: You lost your magic.
Speaker 2: Well, because I always say, my mom's like that, if
Speaker 2: you play a bad guy in a movie, she can
Speaker 2: never look at you again, like she's scared of you.
Speaker 2: She's not a fan, and she thinks you're bad. She
Speaker 2: like can't get over it.
Speaker 5: Do you know what's funny you bring that up? I
Speaker 5: worked with Luise Fletcher I believe her name was. I
Speaker 5: did an episode of TV with her, great, a great show.
Speaker 5: I can't know the name of it, but but it
Speaker 5: was a great show. She's a great actress. Luise Flecker
Speaker 5: if you look her up, I think that's the right name. Yes,
Speaker 5: she played she played nurse Ratchet, Yes in One Over Ye.
Speaker 4: And she's a beautiful woman. But like that's her rep now, right, and.
Speaker 5: She I think she was nominated. I'm not sure, but
Speaker 5: I think she hardly ever worked again except for little
Speaker 5: episodic stuff. When she was she was she won an
Speaker 5: Academy Award. She won an Academy a Ward and never
Speaker 5: got another movie part again because she was so hated
Speaker 5: in that movie. She did her role so well. And
Speaker 5: by the way, when we talk about Stella, Barbara Stanwick
Speaker 5: was in the original spella. You remember, you know who,
Speaker 5: Barbara Stanton. You know the name, Yeah, Barbara Stanwick. Very
Speaker 5: famous TV actor. She was on some TV series for years,
Speaker 5: Barbara Stanwick. So Barbara Stanwick was always last choice in Hollywood.
Speaker 5: After all the beautiful movie star women would turn her
Speaker 5: down the road and let's just give it to Bark.
Speaker 5: Nobody likes her, but let's just give her the role
Speaker 5: because we're under contract. And every time they did that,
Speaker 5: Barbara Stanwick was an Academy Award. They still say, oh,
Speaker 5: I don't want to use barber stand Let's try anybody
Speaker 5: but her, And then all of a sudden, well I
Speaker 5: turned it down, Let's do Barbara and Stella Dallas was
Speaker 5: a movie she wanted an Academy Award for it. She
Speaker 5: was last choice. Every other female movie star turned down Stella.
Speaker 4: And she was in the thorn birds and stuff.
Speaker 1: Wow, okay, grumble and interesting thing, A lot of facts,
Speaker 1: so I was more old Hollywood facts.
Speaker 5: Sorry, I am old.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I am dbating everything. I'm like wanting to know.
Speaker 2: This is so cool.
Speaker 1: So well, I wanted to ask you a little bit
Speaker 1: about Obviously, in researching for this interview, I went to
Speaker 1: your Instagram and I saw that you were like super
Speaker 1: involved in the in the fires. I live in La too,
Speaker 1: so I was here for all of that, and I'm
Speaker 1: on the east side, so I left town because I
Speaker 1: lost power, But I wasn't remotely as close to all
Speaker 1: of the devastation as you were. But you were in
Speaker 1: the press and stuff for rescuing all these animals, which
Speaker 1: I just have to highlight it because we have just
Speaker 1: a very big animal loving audience, and I just think
Speaker 1: that that's going to make them love you even more
Speaker 1: than these fun stories you've told us. What I mean,
Speaker 1: from what I was gathering, it was like you were
Speaker 1: you were like breaking into areas that were closed off
Speaker 1: so that you could like get footage and help animals
Speaker 1: and be like a real life souper hero. Like what
Speaker 1: was going on.
Speaker 5: Well, you know I had experienced because I was in
Speaker 5: the wolves. I did the same thing in the Woolsey fires,
Speaker 5: and unfortunately in those fires, I got almost arrested. And
Speaker 5: it was you know, I was contacted by state investigators
Speaker 5: because I ran and this is back in the Malibu fires,
Speaker 5: the Wolsey fires. Yeah, there was a horse horse sanctuary
Speaker 5: in Korral Canyon where they got most of the horses
Speaker 5: up and then left to you behond. So I went
Speaker 5: in there. I rented a pickup truck affod F one fifty,
Speaker 5: it's a trailer. And the barricades were up and I
Speaker 5: told the people I'm going to get those two horse sets. Say, oh,
Speaker 5: you'll never get them out, bully, because you'll never get
Speaker 5: past the police barricades. And there's a lot of them,
Speaker 5: and and so.
Speaker 4: But I did you just talked your way through them
Speaker 4: or what.
Speaker 6: I mean?
Speaker 5: Some were talking, some were running ess barriers, wow, and
Speaker 5: and so and and when I got to the final
Speaker 5: barrier in Korral Canyon, there was only one sheriff guarding
Speaker 5: and and I was driving into the fire. So I
Speaker 5: knew that if I crashed through the barrier, there is
Speaker 5: no way he's going to follow me, because it's smoken fires,
Speaker 5: it's certain death. And he didn't. And when I got
Speaker 5: back down, he was gone because the fire. Everybody was
Speaker 5: gone because the fire came down the hill.
Speaker 1: And these two horses came with you, and it was
Speaker 1: like you just floaded a long start.
Speaker 5: Yes, I got the horses and we got the horses out. Yes,
Speaker 5: So I know about the fires. So when these fires started,
Speaker 5: just recently, the Palistates fires, I could see the fire,
Speaker 5: by the way, the same same kitchen for the Woolsey fires.
Speaker 5: At my kitchen window when I'm doing dishes, I saw
Speaker 5: a giant ful of smoke, look like a mushroom cloud.
Speaker 5: That's the Woolsey fires. That's why I said, oh my god,
Speaker 5: I only had a pria, so I ran to Enterprise
Speaker 5: on seventeenth and in Santa Monica went to the truck
Speaker 5: right away, broke into the Woolsey fires. Same thing, Palistates fires.
Speaker 5: And in the kitchen nine in the morning, just doing dishes,
Speaker 5: I look up.
Speaker 6: You're like, this keeps happening. Oh my god, another mushroom
Speaker 6: clown of flood. Wow, that can't be what's going on?
Speaker 6: This is whre anybody knew about the fires. This before
Speaker 6: the frost and the place or anywhere. So I drove
Speaker 6: boards where I thought the fire was. I thought it
Speaker 6: was maybe on.
Speaker 5: Montana because how close up Li, but it wasn't. So
Speaker 5: then I went up to SABACTI wasn't there. So then
Speaker 5: I went up to Sunset. It wasn't there either, but
Speaker 5: I could see it. It was in the hills behind.
Speaker 5: It was just starting off. But they had the big
Speaker 5: Super Scoopers, So I thought to myself, Oh, they got
Speaker 5: the Super Scoopers right away. They didn't have that in
Speaker 5: the Moulsey fires. So I thought, this is under control.
Speaker 5: I'll just do some video of the plane's flying. So
Speaker 5: it was a good, you know, good video of these
Speaker 5: planes flying in and dropping where. I thought that was
Speaker 5: cool and I was just gonna go home and thought
Speaker 5: they got it into control. But as I'm watching it,
Speaker 5: I see the fires are kind of spreading. No matter
Speaker 5: how many helicopters and airplanes they were, the fires kept spreading.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because the wave was insane, and.
Speaker 5: I aren't seeing on sunset thousands of people coming out
Speaker 5: of Palisades and coming out of the Palisades heading east,
Speaker 5: thousands cars just cars like and they're panicking and no
Speaker 5: cars going in, so I thought, but that's not good.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I was worried because I thought the police
Speaker 5: are going to put up barricades any minute now, for sure.
Speaker 5: I know. I learned that lesson the hard way. Unfortunately,
Speaker 5: almost went to jail for it. So I'm better get
Speaker 5: in there before the police come and set the barricades up,
Speaker 5: because they are that's coming any minute now. To get
Speaker 5: the firemen in there, obviously, and so and I thought,
Speaker 5: you know what, people are going to be at work.
Speaker 5: They're going to be locked out. They're not no case what,
Speaker 5: let I'm back in, So I better go and start
Speaker 5: knocking on doors and looking for animals pets left behind.
Speaker 4: That's right, because that was one of the videos you
Speaker 4: saw that.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's probably what people don't realize,
Speaker 1: is that like people are like, oh, they just ran
Speaker 1: and they left their pets. It's like, no, they were
Speaker 1: at work when they started and they couldn't get home
Speaker 1: to their pets.
Speaker 5: You know, that's right. It was ten thirty in the morning.
Speaker 5: Everybody's at work by ten ye nine or ten, so
Speaker 5: when the police shut it off, they will not let
Speaker 5: you in. You know, whatever, you say to it, they
Speaker 5: just won't do it. They're just it's not a good thing,
Speaker 5: by the way. So so I went in there, and
Speaker 5: that's why I went in. I went in for the
Speaker 5: police barricades and I started running through the I parked
Speaker 5: my car in Palisades Village. I thought, Oh, the fire
Speaker 5: will never come to the village. That's wrong. Yeah, And
Speaker 5: so I parked my car and then I started running
Speaker 5: into the neighborhoods, banging on doors, looking in the windows,
Speaker 5: trying to and then I would see fires start, so
Speaker 5: I'd run down, I'd tell I'd tell a fire. There
Speaker 5: were firemen, not a lot, It's sparsely around. So I said, hey,
Speaker 5: there's a new there's a there's a small fire by
Speaker 5: the house. There's little fires that start spot fires. Yeah,
Speaker 5: And so I would alert them to it, and the
Speaker 5: fire would come up with the spot fire. And in fact,
Speaker 5: I got a lot of uh messages on Instagram from
Speaker 5: people in that neighborhood and they said, thank you you
Speaker 5: saved our house. We saw you on our neighbors camp.
Speaker 5: Why that was?
Speaker 4: That was?
Speaker 5: And it was and they said, we noticed the name,
Speaker 5: recognized the houses you were in front of on your Instagram,
Speaker 5: So I was posting them as I was doing them,
Speaker 5: and they said, you, if it wasn't for you, that
Speaker 5: spot fire would have caught her house on fire, and
Speaker 5: so all the houses. I saved about seven houses from
Speaker 5: catching on fire by alerting the file. Wow. And then
Speaker 5: I went to windows and so that's how the whole
Speaker 5: thing began. And I thought, oh, this will be over soon.
Speaker 5: This will be over soon, because you know, they get
Speaker 5: the hell the airplanes were flying right over. I thought,
Speaker 5: this is great, they're here. It's not gonna it's not
Speaker 5: gonna spread. And it did. And I ended up staying
Speaker 5: there for like probably thirty hours until I had to
Speaker 5: walk out because I got trapped on pH in Sunset.
Speaker 4: And you abandoned your car.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the tires were melting. Oh my god, ay yea yie. Yeah,
Speaker 5: well it was.
Speaker 4: It's been a tough it's been a tough.
Speaker 5: Time in LA.
Speaker 4: But you have a you have a you have a
Speaker 4: movie that.
Speaker 1: Came out like a week ago or something, right, gun
Speaker 1: Slingers with uh.
Speaker 5: Oh, Gunslingers with Cage and Stephen Doorf. Yes, that's correct, Yes,
Speaker 5: the Cage, Stephen Doorf and Gunslingers. I haven't seen it.
Speaker 5: And they asked me to come to the screening and
Speaker 5: stuff like that of it last week whenever. But I
Speaker 5: had a terrible story there. I'm not contend the whole thing,
Speaker 5: but I'm shot in Kentucky. Uh huh and uh and
Speaker 5: and my dog who's the love of my life died
Speaker 5: on the set Kentucky. Yeah, and so I just didn't
Speaker 5: want to see anything. And there, you know, they I
Speaker 5: didn't want to see the set. I didn't want to
Speaker 5: see anything. I don't have anything to do with that mom,
Speaker 5: because it was a really bad. It was a really
Speaker 5: bad experience. And uh, she was struggling, which is why
Speaker 5: I had to drive her from LA to Kentucky because
Speaker 5: I wonder with me and I couldn't fly because she
Speaker 5: was having seizures. Yeah, and she's a big dog. She's
Speaker 5: a big pit bull. And she stars in a TV
Speaker 5: series that I wilt and directed. She's the star of
Speaker 5: this show called The Trouble with Billy and she is
Speaker 5: the heart of the show. And now she's passed away.
Speaker 5: So like it's it's like a and she passed in Kentucky.
Speaker 5: So and it was a really miserable situation what happened.
Speaker 5: So I just yeah, it's like, don't.
Speaker 4: Do many bad memories.
Speaker 2: But I guess if other people can go see it
Speaker 2: and see your work, Oh yes, absolutely. What do you
Speaker 2: have other projects that are coming up that you want
Speaker 2: to let people know about it?
Speaker 5: That's funny. Yeah, I think it's today the twenty second, Yeah,
Speaker 5: twenty second. So yeah, I've got a thing that starts
Speaker 5: streaming today, I believe. I can't know where, but it's
Speaker 5: called Healing Towers. It's a horror movie and it's actually
Speaker 5: pretty good healings. Yeah, and it's a real interesting story.
Speaker 5: It's a doctor. I've been the doctor, a psychiatrist who
Speaker 5: develops this therapy that cures people of their past trauma.
Speaker 5: Well he doesn't, but does it? What does it?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 5: You get to the therapist hires or abducts these actors
Speaker 5: who portrayed the father that abused you or the mother
Speaker 5: that you missed.
Speaker 4: Don't tell me. I'm going to watch it. Stop.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm in.
Speaker 4: Andrew Keegan's in it. I'm in.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Andrew Keagan. That's right. So it is. It's
Speaker 5: a it's a it's an interesting premise and it's you know,
Speaker 5: it's lower budget, but they did a great job.
Speaker 4: I was very impressed, so excited. That's right up our alley.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a low bunch of horror movies are
Speaker 1: like what's getting made these days, you know, like that's
Speaker 1: the that's right, But that's cool, Okay, So Healing Towers.
Speaker 5: And then the other show is by show called The
Speaker 5: Trouble with Billy. Okay, I'll send you guys the trailer
Speaker 5: for it. So we have all ten episodes are done.
Speaker 5: We're in the process of selling it now, okay, and
Speaker 5: we're going through a lot of legal stuff clearances. So
Speaker 5: I shot this whole thing put quickly on a lower budget,
Speaker 5: and I didn't get all my pick work done. I
Speaker 5: had the wrong contract to SAG, so I had to
Speaker 5: upgrade the contract. Then I get all one hundred and
Speaker 5: fifty actors to approve of the upgrade, which is actually
Speaker 5: better for them. It's way better insiduals. But actors are
Speaker 5: very difficult people, yeah, and they don't want to help me.
Speaker 5: So I'm going through a lot of issues with that,
Speaker 5: and so a lot of locations agreements I didn't get.
Speaker 5: They're all friends of mine, let me use their house
Speaker 5: or their their restaurant, And so now I have to
Speaker 5: get all those things for these where we've gotten a
Speaker 5: few offers already, but when their legal department looks through
Speaker 5: our stuff, we're like, hey, there's too much liability here,
Speaker 5: so you have to go out and do all this paperwork.
Speaker 5: So we've been plung up in that for six months.
Speaker 4: Ah ya yay, not contracts.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's a great show. You'll see the trailer.
Speaker 5: It's pretty good. Everybody loves it so far.
Speaker 1: So hey, you got Billy Baldwin in there, you got
Speaker 1: U s v Alum, Tom Sizemore.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Robert Wagner, Angus McFadden.
Speaker 2: Jake Jake and your beautiful dog and twinky Dog Twinkie. Well,
Speaker 2: I mean thrilled for the gossip. You know, we we
Speaker 2: want to encourage this for more of our guests. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we gotta break.
Speaker 4: We have to weird.
Speaker 2: You don't have to be positive. And you know, bringing
Speaker 2: up Steph. I saw Seph and, you know, revealing to
Speaker 2: her that people don't really love Maloney. She was kind
Speaker 2: of shocked. She didn't realize.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that it's just also so glaring because people
Speaker 1: so love Marishka, like she seems so warm, and I
Speaker 1: think he's probably a little bit more like show up,
Speaker 1: get your work done, get out of here, you know,
Speaker 1: like she was shosh because he is so funny, and
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's just like a work thing.
Speaker 4: And then like maybe out in about he's more chill,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But he's just a thespian who takes himself seriously, because
Speaker 2: what was so funny and like Harold and Kumar where
Speaker 2: it's like he's so.
Speaker 1: Funny when but I think it's just because he takes
Speaker 1: acting really seriously. So if the job is being funny,
Speaker 1: he's funny. If the job is being serious, he's fucking
Speaker 1: up in your face about to kiss you, accusing you
Speaker 1: of rape. You know, like he's takes it really serious.
Speaker 1: But in real life I think he takes himself really
Speaker 1: seriously too. Like my friend just interviewed him and was like,
Speaker 1: I forgot how seriously he takes himself like he does,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean again, Chris, we welcome you on
Speaker 1: the pod. We'd love you to come on. Well, he'll
Speaker 1: take your craft very seriously. But we you know his
Speaker 1: people don't, I guess don't really believe in podcasts.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I mean the thing with Williams too, Like
Speaker 2: I can't imagine thinking I'm about to be a serious
Speaker 2: regular on like a Dick Wolf Law and Order. My
Speaker 2: life's about to change. I'm gonna make millions of dollars
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. And this guy's just like,
Speaker 2: get the fuck off. I set you know. That would
Speaker 2: be tough. That would be tough because I've been in
Speaker 2: that situation in terms of like when you sign the
Speaker 2: contract for your screen tests, when you like when it's
Speaker 2: between you and a few people and you have to
Speaker 2: agree to all these terms and you don't get it,
Speaker 2: but you see what you could have gotten.
Speaker 4: It is tough. It's it's the worst.
Speaker 1: It's kind of why after every audition you have to
Speaker 1: just completely erase it from your mind, and then if
Speaker 1: something comes is good, you're like, oh wow.
Speaker 4: What a surprise. It's I've been the opposite.
Speaker 2: I think I keep sending in such good I'm like
Speaker 2: not even I'm like, what is going on?
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I get it.
Speaker 5: I get it.
Speaker 4: It's a bigger picture. It's all part of a bigger picture.
Speaker 1: I always say, like, somebody could be you could be
Speaker 1: sending something in for this, and they're going to think
Speaker 1: of you in four fucking.
Speaker 4: Years for something practice.
Speaker 2: It's all part of the school because I didn't go
Speaker 2: to like theater school, right, So every audition I work
Speaker 2: with my acting teacher, to me is like a class
Speaker 2: in college.
Speaker 4: You know, we're working on something.
Speaker 2: I'm challenging something like to me, it's like education. But yeah,
Speaker 2: there's there is desperation, there's I can't lie like yeah, no, no, you.
Speaker 4: Want it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just enjoyed this interview. And I love
Speaker 2: this episode. It's famous for us. I mean it's the
Speaker 2: Czech Republic episode.
Speaker 1: It's the Stabler goes to Europe episode, and I do
Speaker 1: love it. It's very terrifying, like at the end that
Speaker 1: this guy is just like we're everywhere. You're never going
Speaker 1: to get rid of us, Like about pedophiles, like that's.
Speaker 2: The pedals are everywhere, Like men are pedophiles. I don't know,
Speaker 2: there's it's not a new theory, but it's like all
Speaker 2: like most of beauty's standards for women that are extreme
Speaker 2: are based on teens, you know.
Speaker 4: That's why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know they like porn stars at eighteen, and
Speaker 2: it is it is just what it is. Like I
Speaker 2: think men are you know, Casey's a pedophile. No, I
Speaker 2: think men are innately pedophiles that has proven otherwise, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just seems tough, like it's not shocked,
Speaker 2: like it's a scary episode. But you know, if you're
Speaker 2: a listener of this podcast from day one, I don't
Speaker 2: think you're really shocked by this information.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it like I do, I do think it's
Speaker 1: interesting that it's like it's basically one time in the
Speaker 1: whole history of the show that they even explore what
Speaker 1: other countries. I mean, they maybe they sometimes are like
Speaker 1: we got to go to Canada, They're going to cross
Speaker 1: to Canada, or we've done like a little Canada, but
Speaker 1: like in terms of what other countries, like how dire
Speaker 1: the situation is in other countries visa the you know trafficking,
Speaker 1: sex trafficking and you know, forced forced prostitution and stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's, uh, you know, it's definitely one of those
Speaker 1: episodes that people, I'm sure like scares parents, like never
Speaker 1: let your kids on AOL ever. Again, that's a very
Speaker 1: taken you know taken Yeah, very the Big Room, the Billionaire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like and we always talk about like you
Speaker 1: need have so many skills to be a successful pedophile,
Speaker 1: like you can't just be casual about it.
Speaker 2: You need to get into high tech security, right, yeah, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really know what the the well, you
Speaker 1: know what I was gonna say. It's like, not only
Speaker 1: do the pedophiles need to be the awesome at the Internet,
Speaker 1: but it's like from a million miles away, you have
Speaker 1: to find these girls, these kids that do feel like
Speaker 1: something is you have to and then like romance them
Speaker 1: and make them feel like, yeah, you're gonna love your
Speaker 1: life in the Czech Republic. Let's just get you a passport,
Speaker 1: leave your family and your friends behind.
Speaker 2: Like it's just fucking terrify waste energy to grooming.
Speaker 4: Grooming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like that one secret society you need to
Speaker 2: one thousand of your own pedophile images to get.
Speaker 4: Into the god oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh y for the super Pedophile Convention.
Speaker 4: It's like it's really it's really I mean it is.
Speaker 1: Like we've talked about this on this podcast before, but
Speaker 1: it's kind of like what what where do we stand?
Speaker 1: And I'm asking myself because I don't know on like
Speaker 1: AI generated or like fake child sex abuse images that
Speaker 1: at least no real children are being harmed in like
Speaker 1: the production of them. I'm just like, will AI help
Speaker 1: in this way or will just encourage grosser behavior?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish I wish everyone in the world had
Speaker 2: seen Companion. I'm gonna say I'm gonna say one thing.
Speaker 2: I don't think it ruins the movie. It's like an
Speaker 2: interesting movie either way. But you know, it's like these
Speaker 2: women are robots. Okay, so it's like these robot women
Speaker 2: and you know that if you watch a trailer, but
Speaker 2: you find out like like some people get them to
Speaker 2: torture them oh on purpose? Oh yeah, yeah, they like
Speaker 2: get the and then you can and then so it's
Speaker 2: like the but we should eliminate these people from society
Speaker 2: that want to torture. I'm anti death penalty, but they
Speaker 2: should be castrated and eliminated the chance because if it
Speaker 2: because if they have the opportunity.
Speaker 4: They'll do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that's the thing. If they like that,
Speaker 2: you can only keep it.
Speaker 1: Escalation is real, like obviously, you know, like you're not
Speaker 1: just gonna be happy with like like you know, AI
Speaker 1: images forever, You're revenge.
Speaker 2: Maybe if this Companion, But it's like I don't want
Speaker 2: these people walking around. I don't want them being employed
Speaker 2: because okay, fine, you're you're watching AI sex abuse, and
Speaker 2: then you're a principle. Then you're like a postman, like
Speaker 2: then you're what if a kid's in a yard?
Speaker 4: Like it's just like these people are in society.
Speaker 2: So that's what I don't Wantah, if we're talking safety,
Speaker 2: but then we talk are we at the movie Minority
Speaker 2: Report at this point?
Speaker 4: And are we doing thought criminals?
Speaker 2: Are we like arresting people before they do anything like
Speaker 2: and Thought an episode of the show. So I don't know,
Speaker 2: and I think this would be interesting. There should be
Speaker 2: a panel and we should be invited. We are experts.
Speaker 2: I just don't feel like people respect us enough, Like
Speaker 2: why haven't we been on a panel?
Speaker 4: Not one panel? Not one panel.
Speaker 2: We're here, we're researching, we're chatting. I mean to not read,
Speaker 2: to get us out like I can't. But I don't delightful.
Speaker 2: I just don't like AI at all because now I'm
Speaker 2: just in a world where, like someone sends me a
Speaker 2: cute monkey, I'm like, it's not real.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's real. And then I'll see something.
Speaker 2: Where I'm like, wow, we're raccoon writing a crocodile. I
Speaker 2: love it, and everyone's like, this is obviously AI. I go, well,
Speaker 2: I didn't think so.
Speaker 4: Listen.
Speaker 1: I shared the junk box AI of the obviously the
Speaker 1: entire cast of SVU as babies. I felt people needed
Speaker 1: to see baby. They needed to see baby Kragan. I'm
Speaker 1: anti chat GBT. We have to, but I'm not your hit.
Speaker 1: I don't use it. I'm not using it like going
Speaker 1: on to chat GPT and getting you know, oh, I.
Speaker 2: Don't even know how to get on it. Im I've
Speaker 2: turned everything off. I am so against I think I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm against everything. I guess I'm a pretty opinion and
Speaker 2: I was like, I've never been more against something in
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 4: Not true, but I'm like so against a I in
Speaker 4: my bones. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's like every time you go on and
Speaker 1: just say, uh, make a poster of me as Superman
Speaker 1: or whatever, it's like it's hurting the environment. I still
Speaker 1: don't get how, and you guys don't have to message me.
Speaker 1: I know that it has to do with like computers
Speaker 1: and servers and stuff like that in theirrind, but it's
Speaker 1: like it's bad for the environment.
Speaker 4: It's making so much crap.
Speaker 1: There's already so much crap circulating through social media? Why
Speaker 1: are we adding now art crap? Like why like stop?
Speaker 1: And then it's and then it's like you're paying thousands
Speaker 1: and thousands of dollars to go to college and then
Speaker 1: you're just gonna like chat GP. I looked for a
Speaker 1: million ways to cheat when I was in college, but
Speaker 1: at least I was using my own word, like like
Speaker 1: manipulating other words and trying to like I wasn't just
Speaker 1: like finding chat GPT and copy and pasting.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's like they closed the Department of education.
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen overnight. It's like they've been trying to
Speaker 2: make everyone dumb for decades and it's worked. The kids
Speaker 2: aren't reading, everyone's having paragraphs written for them.
Speaker 4: I don't get it.
Speaker 2: I know that there's one place in this city they're
Speaker 2: actually in like a chat ai farm, but they use
Speaker 2: all that energy to heat their spa. What so the
Speaker 2: saunas and spas are being it's like a front for
Speaker 2: actual GBT grinding. So my head, it's like these grinding gears.
Speaker 2: But I don't know what it is about that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have no idea, but it is bad.
Speaker 4: It's proven bad. But it's using all this water. I
Speaker 4: don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just we're in too deep. I don't know what
Speaker 2: the future holds for us.
Speaker 1: I really I think that there's some ways that AI
Speaker 1: is going to be helpful, like, for example.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it should be for nature. I don't know,
Speaker 2: it should be about medicine, like I should be exact
Speaker 2: aware exactly. Like I just went and got my mammogram yesterday.
Speaker 2: Shout out to everybody. Please get your fucking mammograms.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear anything about you're not getting
Speaker 1: them because you like didn't think you had a problem
Speaker 1: or whatever. Please go get one once you turn forty
Speaker 1: or before if you have risk factors. But my sister,
Speaker 1: when she went to get hers, she could pay a
Speaker 1: little bit extra to have AI apparently go through and
Speaker 1: give you, like a deeper analysis of your mammogram, which great,
Speaker 1: let's do it for medicine and shit like that, not
Speaker 1: for writing your paper about Napoleon or whatever.
Speaker 2: And then I had someone in my life be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm not good at writing things like you are.
Speaker 2: So I get to use that, and then I have
Speaker 2: a good thing, and it's like, no, you should work
Speaker 2: with someone you should work with another human. You should
Speaker 2: look at examples of paragraphs. You should like compile because
Speaker 2: when I like officiated a wedding, it's like you get
Speaker 2: a little booklet. You look at the booklet, you see
Speaker 2: the form, and then you plug it. You can plug
Speaker 2: and chug. There's some sort of critical thinking you can do.
Speaker 2: I don't understand this thing of well, I don't know
Speaker 2: how to do it, so I'll just have this thing
Speaker 2: do it. That's ruining the invit Like, what the fuck
Speaker 2: are you talking?
Speaker 1: Already we have Google, Like already we have so many
Speaker 1: more like things at our disposal than we did before AI.
Speaker 1: You know, like you have so many ways that you
Speaker 1: can find things on the Internet to inspire you as
Speaker 1: a jumping off point, as an idea generator. And now
Speaker 1: it's like we just have this thing that's doing it
Speaker 1: all for you and not even making you connect the dots,
Speaker 1: and we need people connecting the dots, guys. Well now
Speaker 1: without connecting the dots now, without PBS, I mean, there
Speaker 1: will never be a dot connected again. My kids are
Speaker 1: watching PBS kids every single fucking day. They watch shows
Speaker 1: from twenty years ago on PBS that are so fucking
Speaker 1: good PBS has the best kids shows, like It's It's
Speaker 1: they watch the show called.
Speaker 4: Work, like I'm on the verge of tears, honestly, Like I.
Speaker 3: Know, I know.
Speaker 1: That's why I can't. I don't think the PBS stuff
Speaker 1: is going to happen.
Speaker 5: I really don't.
Speaker 1: I hope that like viewers and stuff will fundraise and
Speaker 1: we'll be able to like keep it functioning even without
Speaker 1: the government, or we'll bring it back as soon as
Speaker 1: he's gone.
Speaker 4: Whatever.
Speaker 1: We have to win in twenty twenty eight so that
Speaker 1: or twenty twenty six so that he's you know, doesn't
Speaker 1: have any more power.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm actually I just went on the Arthur shop.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'll buy some of my guy. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh my god, Arthur Pillow. I've actually been doing such
Speaker 2: a good job because of fascism. I'm really trying not
Speaker 2: to spend as much on stupid stuff, like just be
Speaker 2: prepared for like stuff. Yeah, oh god. I was at
Speaker 2: a store. It was like a clear purse shape like
Speaker 2: a strawberry with a clear strap.
Speaker 4: And I just you didn't get it. I didn't.
Speaker 2: It was only not only it was thirty dollars. It's
Speaker 2: you know, like it's not like that's gonna make or
Speaker 2: break everything in my life. But I definitely went, no,
Speaker 2: you're not getting a strawberry bag I do in this economy,
Speaker 2: not right now. But now I'm looking at this Arthur
Speaker 2: pillow to help PBS. Yeah, I mean, come on, that strawberry,
Speaker 2: that strawberry plastic purse.
Speaker 1: Wasn't helping anybody. Now we're helping PBS. We're helping. They
Speaker 1: all grown up women's crop to hoodie. They know they
Speaker 1: know Arthur's demographic corputy on the PBS shop store.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I love it. Okay, let me know.
Speaker 2: It's them as teens, it's the future versions of them.
Speaker 4: Oh, they're all grown up. Not I'm grown up.
Speaker 2: I thought it was like for a grown up woman,
Speaker 2: But it's them as grown ups. I guess Arthur didn't
Speaker 2: teach me enough because I can't get that.
Speaker 1: Let's get into what was mister Pegg to do our
Speaker 1: weekly segment where we direct you to an organization, a book,
Speaker 1: a movie, a documentary, something to give you more info
Speaker 1: about what we talked about today. And obviously, this episode
Speaker 1: covers a ton of fucking issues. Sex trafficking, child trafficking, pedophilia, online,
Speaker 1: child sex abuse images horrible stuff, and I found this
Speaker 1: organization called the Innocent Lives Foundation. Their mission is to
Speaker 1: identify anonymous child predators and to help bring them to justice.
Speaker 1: But they don't condone vigilantesm I think they're just like
Speaker 1: honestly really good at like hacking and unmasking people using technology.
Speaker 1: They operate by seeking the assistance of appropriate members of
Speaker 1: the information security community, using cutting edge technology, and establishing
Speaker 1: working relationships with law enforcement, plus some other guiding principles
Speaker 1: like I said, no vigilanteism and not sharing their techniques,
Speaker 1: like even if they bring down a big ring, they're
Speaker 1: not like here's how we did it, because they don't
Speaker 1: want to unintentionally educate predators to avoid detection and prosecution.
Speaker 1: So for more information or if you want to donate,
Speaker 1: you can go to Innocentlives Foundation dot org and that
Speaker 1: will be posted in our show notes as always, and
Speaker 1: we'll be posted on our stories of our Instagram and
Speaker 1: saved Forever in our WWSPD highlight and our Instagram is
Speaker 1: that's messed up pod, So go over there, go over
Speaker 1: there and get involved in the conversation about how Velasco
Speaker 1: and Silva have been let go.
Speaker 2: I can't believe mention it at all, but I didn't
Speaker 2: like them as Karens.
Speaker 1: People are people are talking on the Instagram about it.
Speaker 1: Some people are sad, some people are happy. You know.
Speaker 2: I just I will see who they pay next year,
Speaker 2: I guess, you know.
Speaker 1: But Muggsy Caine's still there as long as Kevin Kane
Speaker 1: is still on. I think he's doing a great job.
Speaker 1: But it seems like they're rolling into bringing Rolins back
Speaker 1: in a way.
Speaker 2: But I don't know Rolins. Who followed Steph Tolf Wow.
Speaker 2: Kelly Giddish followed her huge. Yeah, she was, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: this is huge also, so I'm looking at the Arthur merchant,
Speaker 2: I go, wow, panty is weird. It's a bandana for
Speaker 2: your dog, obviously, But what size pillows should I get?
Speaker 2: Fourteen by fourteen, sixteen, sixteen, eighteen, eighteen, twenty twenty or.
Speaker 1: Twenty No, no, no, no, I'll tell you exactly. So
Speaker 1: you know, at my house, the square pillows that are
Speaker 1: on my couch that's in eighteen by eighteen, A twenty
Speaker 1: by twenty is quite big, and a sixteen by sixteen
Speaker 1: would be, you know, a little bit smaller than like
Speaker 1: just those squares I have on my couch, so like
Speaker 1: a pretty Do you.
Speaker 4: Think I should get eighteen eighteen? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think eighteen eighteen if you're gonna throw it on
Speaker 1: your couch, or sixteen sixteen, either one.
Speaker 2: It's so cute. All right, PBS, I'm callos join us
Speaker 2: next week, I'll give a review of the pillow and
Speaker 2: we will be doing the episode Consent, Season two, episode ten.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thanks for listening. Guys, We'll see
Speaker 1: you next week. Bye bye.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
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Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain.
Speaker 1: And to our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker,
Speaker 1: Patrick Cottner and Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and
Speaker 1: Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our
Speaker 1: executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Dun Dun,