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Speaker 1: Don't feel like sitting in a waiting room right now.

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Speaker 1: Planned parenthoods got you covered as a leader in using

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Speaker 1: new technologies to provide high quality healthcare in ways that

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Speaker 1: get high quality, affordable care your way by phone or video.

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Speaker 1: Trusted providers will listen, give information, and support you in

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Speaker 1: all of your healthcare decisions. Planned parenthoods telehealth appointments are

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Speaker 1: high quality, affordable, and private, just like in person visits,

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Speaker 1: whether you need help with birth control, a prescription refill,

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Speaker 1: or other sexual or reproductive care services, skip the waiting

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Speaker 1: room and get the care you need when you need it.

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Speaker 1: Planet Parenthood takes the stress out of healthcare and as

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Speaker 1: ready when you are. Check out planned parenthood dot com

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Speaker 1: slash Local Dora to learn more and book a virtual

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Speaker 1: appointment that's Planned parenthood dot org slash look at Dora.

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Speaker 1: Radio Radio Radio Commies a myth and Bullshit. A radiophonic

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Speaker 1: novella Look a Radio hosted by malamno Alla La Locam

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Speaker 1: is welcome to Season four of Local Radio rosas Wanted

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Speaker 1: for Crimes against the Patriarchy. Look at a Radio as

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Speaker 1: a radiophonic novella, which is just a very extra way

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Speaker 1: of saying a podcast. We interrupt our regularly scheduled programming

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Speaker 1: to bring you Quarantine Confidential, a special pandemic broadcast about

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Speaker 1: our experiences with quarantine and COVID nineteen. I'm Fosa and

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Speaker 1: I'm Mala. Last Time I Look at a Radio, we

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Speaker 1: spoke about unpacking the Latino Tote. Tune into that episode

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Speaker 1: on Apple, podcast, Spotify, SoundCloud, and audio Boom to hear

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Speaker 1: us talk about Latino voters and presidential election. Alright, and

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Speaker 1: just a quick update and reminder, we are hosting free

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Speaker 1: webinars with the l A Public Library, and we have

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Speaker 1: our upcoming final webinar with the l A Public Library

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Speaker 1: on December fifteen at four pm and we will be

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Speaker 1: discussing podcasting as social justice. If you haven't been able

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Speaker 1: to catch any of the previous webinars, they will be

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Speaker 1: on the library's YouTube page and Facebook page for a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, so check those out in case you

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Speaker 1: did miss them. And today, the bulk of the garnet

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Speaker 1: of this episode is going to be all about Selena

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Speaker 1: Kingthania and our specific reactions to the new Netflix show

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Speaker 1: The new Netflix series, Selena the Series, and we're just

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Speaker 1: going to jump right into it because there's so much

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Speaker 1: to say. There's a lot to talk about, and I

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Speaker 1: don't even know where to begin at this point because

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Speaker 1: they're already been talking about it. Now, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: to talk about. We've been discussing it. The articles have

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Speaker 1: been published, the reviews are out, um, the online conversations

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Speaker 1: have been happening even prior to the series of being released,

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Speaker 1: and so it's been interesting to see all of the

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Speaker 1: individual conversations form either on you know, Latin Next media

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Speaker 1: publications and their comment section on your page Mala on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's start. Let's get to the let's start

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Speaker 1: at the beginning, right, and let's talk about Selena the

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Speaker 1: Netflix series. Our initial thoughts are initial feelings, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll get into the rest. So the show went live

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Speaker 1: on Netflix, started streaming Friday now of last week, Thursday

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Speaker 1: night at midnight, yeah, December four, officially, Yeah, so December four,

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Speaker 1: midnight midnight premiere and I stayed up to watch the

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Speaker 1: as few episodes, and I know a few other people did.

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Speaker 1: And people's viewing patterns have been interesting because some folks

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Speaker 1: have taken their time. They've done an episode a day. Um.

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Speaker 1: I watched as many as I could, and the reviews

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Speaker 1: were already coming in before the premiere. The l A.

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Speaker 1: Times put out a very harsh review, like in the

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Speaker 1: days leading up to the premiere, Time Magazine put out

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Speaker 1: a review, I want to say, like before the official premiere,

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Speaker 1: so we already feedback was being provided to the public. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so you know what after watching the series, after

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Speaker 1: you know, binging in in one night or binging it

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Speaker 1: in two days, what were your initial thoughts in my

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Speaker 1: last to this, you know, what did you think of

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Speaker 1: the series? Yeah? So I mean for context too. I

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Speaker 1: posted a while back in October um some tweets and

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Speaker 1: then an i g TV video reacting to the promo

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Speaker 1: videos first cely into the series, and I was giving

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Speaker 1: my predictions, and my predictions at the time for the

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Speaker 1: promo was that it was going to be very amateur

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Speaker 1: hour and that the whigs were bad and the dancing

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Speaker 1: was bad and the casting of the lead was wrong,

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Speaker 1: which was my basic like prediction, right, So when I

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Speaker 1: started watching it, I would say that the show itself

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Speaker 1: confirmed all of my fears and in fact heightened my

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Speaker 1: fears because it was so self centered around Abraham and

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Speaker 1: a B that I didn't even think that that was possible.

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Speaker 1: It didn't enter my mind that they would do what

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Speaker 1: they did with this series. So I was very shocked,

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Speaker 1: to be honest with you, how about you, what were

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Speaker 1: your initial first reactions to this? So I watched the

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Speaker 1: first episode on a Saturday. And you know, if you've

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Speaker 1: listened to the pot or you've heard me talk about shows,

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Speaker 1: you know that I am a committed binge watcher. I

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Speaker 1: will not stop until I start. But I approached this

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Speaker 1: season very differently. Are the series very differently? Um? I

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Speaker 1: would say that I had some hesitation and I had

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Speaker 1: some low expectations based on everyone's reviews, right, not only yours,

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Speaker 1: but like the publications that you mentioned. And so I

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Speaker 1: immediately thought that in the first episode, Abraham is you

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Speaker 1: can already see his character is somewhat of a bully, right,

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Speaker 1: the way he treats a b the way he has

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Speaker 1: him dumpster dive um to look for lights, you know,

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Speaker 1: the way he or to look for can't pete can

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Speaker 1: cans to make lights, you know, which is a scene

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Speaker 1: that we see in the series. And so my initial

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Speaker 1: thought was that's that's pretty mean light to make your

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Speaker 1: kids do that and now do it with them. Right,

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Speaker 1: situations call for that kind of those kinds of actions,

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Speaker 1: and you know, not to shame that. That's not my issue.

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Speaker 1: My issue was they make it like, all right, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna go do that, and I'm going to wait in

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Speaker 1: the car while you're in the dumpster. So I thought immediately,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's portrayed as a bully. And throughout the

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Speaker 1: series there, at least the part one right before anyone

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Speaker 1: comes from me, at least in Part one, there were

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Speaker 1: no redeeming There was no redemption for Abraham. You know,

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Speaker 1: we see the strict father, we see the patriarchal figure,

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Speaker 1: the patriarch right. We see this man making all the decisions,

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Speaker 1: taking all the meetings, leading the band. But I don't

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Speaker 1: see any redeeming qualities of Abraham in the series. No.

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Speaker 1: And in an odd way, even though they centered Abraham,

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Speaker 1: they dehumanized Abraham. They made even Abraham flat while making

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Speaker 1: him the lead and the star of the show, which

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Speaker 1: I feel like is quite a masterful thing to pull

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Speaker 1: up to hi check the storyline, make it about him,

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Speaker 1: but also flattened himself because I think I agree with

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Speaker 1: you completely. The example that you gave of the dumpster

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Speaker 1: diving also reminded me of the scene with the food

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Speaker 1: stamps in the grocery store where he like makes his

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Speaker 1: kids pay with the food stamps and he leaves because

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Speaker 1: he's too embarrassed. And I feel like they wrote these

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Speaker 1: scenes in to make it seem like Abraham was kind

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Speaker 1: of a hard ass, but he comes off as kind

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Speaker 1: of a bully and all honestly, I'm sorry, and Abraham

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Speaker 1: co signed this representation of himself, like this is just

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Speaker 1: what we observed, right. He comes off as a bully

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Speaker 1: but also as a coward. It doesn't make him look good,

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Speaker 1: you know. And it's odd to me that he would

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Speaker 1: be okay with such repeated examples of him being horrible.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand that part. And then with the wheeling

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Speaker 1: and the dealing and the trying to cut you know,

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Speaker 1: like record deals and talking to executives and men in

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Speaker 1: suits and they're going to events, I'm like, you guys

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Speaker 1: want us to think of you as like these mad men,

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Speaker 1: like businessmen. But what was interesting to me is I'm

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Speaker 1: sure a level of that happened, but when they're in

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Speaker 1: those meetings on the show, and they're having those conversations,

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Speaker 1: Selena's name really doesn't even come up. Didn't even bring

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Speaker 1: her up as the star and the act and the

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Speaker 1: talent that's going to get signed and that's kind of

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Speaker 1: gonna record the record. It's all vague. It's just give

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Speaker 1: me the record, give me the contract, give me the record,

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Speaker 1: give me the contract. She's not even centered and the

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Speaker 1: alleged making of her career. So it's just all very

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Speaker 1: odd to me. I agree, And I think you know,

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Speaker 1: there are people, there are men in particular that probably

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Speaker 1: see Abraham as the leader, right as like the man,

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Speaker 1: the head of household, the father, the husband that's going

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Speaker 1: to lead them through these different, you know, situations, whether

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Speaker 1: that be you know, gigging in someone's backyard or buying

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Speaker 1: groceries with food stamps and then negotiating these deals. So

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Speaker 1: I feel like they try to, in my my understanding

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Speaker 1: of it, they try to build him up, like look

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Speaker 1: at look at what he's done, right, look at how

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Speaker 1: he's like really brought them full circle. Um, But I

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, it's weird. Whether Selena was involved

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Speaker 1: in these meetings or not, we will never know, right,

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Speaker 1: But I do think that it's weird that she wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be involved in any of the conversations, even behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: Maybe not sitting in the meetings because he was the manager,

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Speaker 1: so I can understand that, but not even consulted, you know,

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Speaker 1: pre meeting, post meeting, you know, just a line. Let

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Speaker 1: me consult with Selena and the band, let me consult

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Speaker 1: with my family, and I'll get back to you. You know,

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Speaker 1: just something. And let me say this. In the days

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Speaker 1: since the show has premiered, and in the days since,

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Speaker 1: publications from Right to the l A Times, to Time

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Speaker 1: Magazine to the Texas Monthly giving their own independent, scathing reviews.

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Speaker 1: It's really not just us, and my critique of the

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Speaker 1: series has been viewed almost a hundred thousand times at

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Speaker 1: this point, which I didn't think. I didn't. I had

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Speaker 1: no idea, right, but but a lot of people agree

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Speaker 1: on their own that there's something really wrong with this series,

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Speaker 1: that it's off. It's not like us being dramatic, although

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Speaker 1: this is a dramatic situation, you know, um bad. Dominicana

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Speaker 1: even last year put out her own analysis of the

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Speaker 1: promo materials and the whitewashing of the lead and the

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Speaker 1: lack of dancing. I've seen non Latinas, non latin X people,

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Speaker 1: Asian people, black folks who are fans, White folks who

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Speaker 1: are fans, right, um, say that, yeah, this is not right. Like,

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Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there. How widespread

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Speaker 1: this conversation has become. A because she is an icon

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Speaker 1: and a legend and touched, you know, all of these

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Speaker 1: different demographics. But B because the issues are glaring, and

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Speaker 1: I just want to shout out the the Hannahs and

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Speaker 1: the Latinas, some of whom knew Selena back in the

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Speaker 1: day and worked in the Thehano music scene and what

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Speaker 1: have you who and a number of them who have

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Speaker 1: deemed me and who have reached out to say, like,

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Speaker 1: the anchor is justified, the issues are real. The centering

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Speaker 1: of Abraham is wrong, and that to remind us all right,

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Speaker 1: like that Selena was a genius musician in her own right,

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Speaker 1: who was heavily involved in the making of the music,

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Speaker 1: and who wasn't just following orders and being told what

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Speaker 1: to do. She created herself in many ways with the

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Speaker 1: love and support of her family. But I want to

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Speaker 1: point out that like in the series, Abraham doesn't come

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Speaker 1: off as loving and supportive in addition to being a

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Speaker 1: hard ass. He just looks like a hard ass. I

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Speaker 1: actually wish that they gave him more humanity. Like it's

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Speaker 1: not even about comparing it to the movie. It's about like, no,

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Speaker 1: there's there's no way that somebody like Selena and the

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Speaker 1: music that came out of her family could have come

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Speaker 1: from a completely oppressive, abusive environment. Like that's not possible.

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Speaker 1: So why did they put that on display here? Right?

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Speaker 1: I mean, and that we won't know we won't know,

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously it goes to that saying there's like

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Speaker 1: a room of writers, right, it's collaborative, it's multiple people. Um.

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Speaker 1: But just in case anyone wants to push back and

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Speaker 1: say that to us, we know, we know, we know,

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Speaker 1: we know. No needs to state the obvious. Like we

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Speaker 1: are super fans. We've been reading the articles, We've been

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Speaker 1: keeping an eye on the conversations. We know folks like

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Speaker 1: peripherally or directly involved in different ways and different aspects

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Speaker 1: of these projects. And like the things that we're talking

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Speaker 1: about are not just like coming out of thin air. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like we're in l A and we're in the Selena

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Speaker 1: like fandom, and we're in the LATINOX media space more importantly,

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Speaker 1: and like conversations are being had, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like stories are being shared, and what I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to be known that people close to Selena when she

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Speaker 1: was alive, women close to Selena when she was alive,

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Speaker 1: I feel very much that the show did not do

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Speaker 1: her justice and that it's a crying shape. And I agree, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you know, I think this is a good example

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Speaker 1: of you know, representation politics really falling flat, um, because

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Speaker 1: there has been a lot of examples. You know, are

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Speaker 1: people calling upon you know, unwavering support. Support the series

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Speaker 1: or they're never gonna make another show about us. Support

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Speaker 1: the series, or it's gonna get canceled, you know, support

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Speaker 1: the series because it's all in all Latin X cast

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Speaker 1: and crew. Right, those things are real, you know, those

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Speaker 1: things do happen, right, But there's a there's a big but, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's not enough, like to say, I see

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Speaker 1: myself on screen, so that's enough. We we want more

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Speaker 1: than that, right, um. And I think it's really important

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Speaker 1: that we recognize that a woman that was murdered literally

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Speaker 1: does not have a voice. She does not have a

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Speaker 1: voice because she was taken. She was murdered, and so

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Speaker 1: to create a series where her voice is so secondary,

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Speaker 1: it is horrible. It's a travesty, it's disappointing, it's a betrayal.

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Speaker 1: And I also want to give exam bowls because this

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Speaker 1: isn't the first series that's been made about an icon.

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Speaker 1: We have the that was from Celia's perspective, we have

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Speaker 1: um the Huangabil series, we have the Luise Mighel series. Right,

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Speaker 1: these are Latin X icons, and all three of those

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Speaker 1: examples are in first person there in the icon's perspective.

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Speaker 1: And so I think this was a missed opportunity. And

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Speaker 1: we will be talking about the Ka Machine in the

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Speaker 1: second half of this episode with our guests, and so

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Speaker 1: I just want to plant that seed right now. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: And because there's layers on layers and on layers to

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Speaker 1: this conversation, and we will probably not get to everything

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Speaker 1: because there's so much. And I want to remind folks

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Speaker 1: that we are not the only people talking about this.

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Speaker 1: We are not the only voices. We don't consider ourselves

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Speaker 1: Selena scholars, We just are Selena fans. We have interviewed

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Speaker 1: plenty of other Latin X creatives and filmmakers, and actors

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Speaker 1: and actresses of all walks of life who have engaged

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Speaker 1: in all sorts of projects. This is honestly like the

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Speaker 1: one time Look is coming out and giving like a

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Speaker 1: negative review of a Latino X media projects. I just

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Speaker 1: want to put that out there, so let's be like,

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Speaker 1: come on, if we don't like something, we cannot like something.

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Speaker 1: We we also have the right to free speech. I

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Speaker 1: can't even believe that we have to like have this conversation,

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Speaker 1: but we do, and mainly because of the feedback that

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Speaker 1: we've been getting in that I've been I've been getting

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Speaker 1: from like men from latinos literally telling me to stop

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Speaker 1: talking about such and such a thing, or to not

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Speaker 1: center myself or I must just be jealous that I

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Speaker 1: wasn't cast And I'm like, bra like a woman can

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Speaker 1: have an opinion about a performance and about a casting

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Speaker 1: choice without it coming from a place of jealousy. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, what does that say about their idea

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Speaker 1: of women being jealous? Right, that there's an inherent jealousy

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Speaker 1: because it's not you, not because you're a person with

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Speaker 1: your own thoughts and opinions and values, but because you're

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Speaker 1: a woman. So you're inherently jealous exactly, and like one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons to why the whitewashing in the casting

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Speaker 1: choice and in the dancing, in the movement, in the storyline,

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Speaker 1: in the family dynamics, and the there's a very thorough

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Speaker 1: sort of whitewashing that I see in slein of the series.

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Speaker 1: And I feel because we are so to say, as

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Speaker 1: a lot of people have pointed out, which is true

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Speaker 1: and factual, because we talk about it all the time,

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Speaker 1: you and I are very light skinned Latina's right, like

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Speaker 1: light skin Miss Pisas And if not like for that privilege,

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Speaker 1: shouldn't I shouldn't we be pointing out that the whitewashing

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Speaker 1: is unacceptable and actually we don't want that and we

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Speaker 1: don't like that, Like isn't it our responsibility for like

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Speaker 1: light skin Latinas with the platforms to say that whitewashing

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Speaker 1: is bad and colorism is bad? And no, I don't

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Speaker 1: want someone as light as me or lighter playing Selena Quintania,

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Speaker 1: like I don't. I don't think that that's a good thing.

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Speaker 1: I don't want that representation in in the image of

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Speaker 1: somebody that just doesn't accurately reflect her, Like I think

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Speaker 1: that it's important for us to say whitewashing is bad

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Speaker 1: and colorism is bad, and we're gonna say no to

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Speaker 1: it here. Yeah. And you know, for me, I've been

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Speaker 1: thinking about this and I'm like, I've been thinking about

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Speaker 1: how to frame this without its sounding bad, um, And

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Speaker 1: so I haven't wanted to like post about it. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I need to be able to say this right. And

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Speaker 1: for me as someone as I'm a petite woman, I'm

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Speaker 1: a small woman, um, and so when I see Christian Serratos,

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Speaker 1: there are parts of me that see myself and I

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Speaker 1: say that in a bad way, Like I should not

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Speaker 1: be able to see my body type on screen on

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Speaker 1: represent as a representation of Selena, you know. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that's another example. It's like, as someone with

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Speaker 1: you know, within privilege, I should be able to say

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Speaker 1: that's wrong because Selena represented so much for people with

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Speaker 1: different body types, especially in the nineties. And I cannot

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Speaker 1: emphasize that enough. That in the nineties the beauty standard

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Speaker 1: was who Cindy Crawford, Twiggy like so many different models,

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Speaker 1: Great Treggy, so many different models, um, celebrities. You know

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Speaker 1: that we're considered the ideal beauty type. You know, and

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Speaker 1: that's just in US media. Think about Latin media and

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Speaker 1: the white Latinas that are represented on screen, on film, um,

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Speaker 1: in the news, and so it's really important that Selena,

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Speaker 1: any representation of Selena is reflective of who she was physically,

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Speaker 1: phenotypically agreed, completely, agreed, completely, you know. And it's only

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Speaker 1: with like women of color that the continued like dissection

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Speaker 1: of skin tone, own facial features. I mean, the number

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Speaker 1: of photos swapping that I've seen going on online to

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Speaker 1: prove who she was when we know who she was,

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Speaker 1: and it's really not up for debate, Like she was

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Speaker 1: a brown Mexican American second third, maybe even fourth gen

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Speaker 1: focha from South Texas with native ancestry, with indigenous ancestry,

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Speaker 1: and her origin story and her family's entire origin story

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Speaker 1: is about being discriminated against racially as Mexican people who

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Speaker 1: are especially at that time and still not white in

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Speaker 1: South Texas. And you know, it's just like that erasure,

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Speaker 1: which is something that I've been talking about UM with

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Speaker 1: regards to Selena the series is part of what's so

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Speaker 1: deeply upsetting and it's almost like, well, there you go, Well,

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Speaker 1: the white washing has been very successful in throw that

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Speaker 1: because now people are literally saying that Selena was white.

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Speaker 1: So you so yes, so that the white washing complete?

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Speaker 1: Got it? Thank you understood? Um? And again like they

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Speaker 1: have made specific choices. They did go lighter, and they

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Speaker 1: did go thinner, and they went with more eurocentric features

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Speaker 1: and without the dancing and without the rhythm and without

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Speaker 1: the physical embodiment of who she was in her culture

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Speaker 1: and the things that made her another. Um. And my

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Speaker 1: question is, if they're willing to compromise on things like

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Speaker 1: the dancing and the body type, you know, and the

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Speaker 1: singing and what have you, why go in that direction,

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Speaker 1: Why go lighter and thinner? Why not go browner? Why

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Speaker 1: not hire a browner skinned actress who's up and coming,

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Speaker 1: a browner skin dancer who's up and coming, who has

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Speaker 1: the body type, who has the dancing chops, because we

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Speaker 1: all know that those girls exist. We know that those

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Speaker 1: girls exist. And this is also about pointing out an

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Speaker 1: uplifting There are brown skinned women in our community who

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Speaker 1: are artists, who are dancers, who are actresses, who are capable,

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Speaker 1: and why are we ignoring them and not giving them opportunities? Yeah? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And I think also again this is part one so

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Speaker 1: maybe this will see this in part two. But in

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Speaker 1: part one I did not see Selena um reference any

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Speaker 1: women artists that she was inspired from. We heard a

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Speaker 1: little bit of like you know, Janet Jackson and Paula Abdul.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely we did see that, but in terms of like movement,

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Speaker 1: in terms of dancing, we know that she like with

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Speaker 1: her hand movements, she you know, studied dancers like Flamenco dancers.

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Speaker 1: There was an influence of Rossio urgal Um in Selena

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Speaker 1: in her vocals and her movements, and so I think

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Speaker 1: it's really important that we see that as well, because

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Speaker 1: while Selena was the first in many ways, there were

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Speaker 1: also women before her that I'm sure she was inspired by,

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Speaker 1: especially when we're talking about Spanish music or Spanish language music.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of seeing with like a B

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Speaker 1: and Pete and such like brainstorming and writing music. And

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Speaker 1: did Selena say the word rehearse or rehearsal one time?

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Speaker 1: In part one? Was there one rehearsal scene with her

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Speaker 1: really like or her kind of vibing with a B

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Speaker 1: and with the band like to really figure out songs.

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Speaker 1: I mean the argument that this is showing the process

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Speaker 1: and the making of would lead us to believe that

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Speaker 1: she wasn't involved in the making of that she was passive.

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Speaker 1: I didn't hear the words rehearsal right. I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: the words like collaborate right like. I didn't see her

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Speaker 1: working in the ways that we know that she did

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Speaker 1: work behind the scenes to bring the music to life.

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Speaker 1: There's that piece of it too. But we did hear

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Speaker 1: them talk a lot about standing there and looking pretty

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Speaker 1: or just singing, look pretty, well, better go get an outfit.

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Speaker 1: I need to go shopping. I need to go get

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Speaker 1: an outfit. They really reduced her to Her contributions to

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Speaker 1: her greatness were dyeing her hair a lot, and her

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Speaker 1: daddy hated that, getting different outfits and her daddy hated

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Speaker 1: that too. Um, and that was about it, and that's

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Speaker 1: what she did. Yeah, I would say that the limited

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Speaker 1: time that we did see Selena in the series was

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Speaker 1: her trying to design an outfit, and so I will

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Speaker 1: give partial credit in that way that it did give

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Speaker 1: us a small window into her process in creating her

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Speaker 1: outfits and the band's outfits. I wish we saw more

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Speaker 1: of that, you know, I wish we maybe we will

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Speaker 1: see it in part two. Right, maybe we will see

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Speaker 1: the Selena boutique become what it was. Um. And so

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Speaker 1: maybe they were planting the window, you know, that little seed. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted more of it, you know, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to see more of it, and I wanted to see

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Speaker 1: her more involved in the music. Yes, and and that's that.

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Speaker 1: And you know, as much as I don't want to

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Speaker 1: compare it to the movie, and I think it's hard

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Speaker 1: not to because it was such a good movie, right,

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Speaker 1: I think what the movie did right was that it

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Speaker 1: involves Selena and all of it, in the rehearsals, in

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Speaker 1: the songwriting, in the making of the clothes, and so

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Speaker 1: we really saw it from her point of view. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so again it's hard not to compare the twobe.

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Speaker 1: But when we've already seen one Selena from one angle,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to not see it again and more in

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Speaker 1: depth because it's a mini series. Absolutely, And here's my question.

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Speaker 1: There are so many people who are like, don't compare

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Speaker 1: it to the movie, don't compare it to the movie.

426
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: Question why not? The King Funny has produced that movie.

427
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: Abraham King Funny as name is in the opening credits

428
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: as one of the producers, as an executive producer. The

429
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 1: family signed off on the movie too. That's the first

430
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: introduction they really gave to like a national and international

431
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 1: audience to their family. And they were heavily involved there too.

432
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 1: And don't we always talk about how j Lo was

433
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: in their house and and j Lo was just up

434
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: close and personal with the family to really get a

435
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: feel for who Selena was and how to embody her.

436
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: I completely reject the idea that we can't compare the

437
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: series to the movie. These are both que productions. These

438
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: are both Keene Fenia approved projects about the same exact

439
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: person about Selena. I mean, and we do, you know

440
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: Selena Selena or not? We do judge remakes, you know,

441
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: we do put them against each other. Think of how

442
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: many times you know, a Star is Born has been made,

443
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: countless movies, countless cinematic you know, things of cinematic films

444
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: that have been made and are compared to each other.

445
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: And so yeah, you're right, we can, we can and

446
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: we should because clearly, um, they were both signed off

447
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: by the Keenthenias. We know that if you do anything

448
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: with Selena's likeness, you need some type of approval because

449
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 1: friends of ours have received the seas and assist letter.

450
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see if Mala gets one. I hope

451
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: you don't write. We'll frame it, we'll send it to

452
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: our lawyer. It'll be fine. We'll send it to our lawyer.

453
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: We'll just we'll file it, you know, for the archives.

454
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: I'm sure it won't be the person, it won't be

455
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: the last, but that's fine. So shifting gears a little bit,

456
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: unless you know, we want to go back to what

457
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: you were going to say, Um, shifting gears. I wanted you.

458
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about

459
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: the reception of your video. You touched on it a

460
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: little bit, but you've gotten lots of comments. For one,

461
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: people telling you you should spend more time talking about

462
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 1: x Y and z UM, which I thought was really interesting. Um,

463
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: and you've gotten lots of feedback from both men and women,

464
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: from Bason straight men. Let's talk about that. So I

465
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: want to say that overwhelmingly, the viral like traction and

466
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: the support of my MALAA bras I Abraham Selena, the

467
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: series review has been supportive. Everybody agrees. Basically everybody agrees,

468
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: and you know, for those of you who maybe haven't

469
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: tuned in to my Mala's Ballaba segment. It's a little

470
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: bit different than Look at Thought. We're a little bit

471
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: more like, you know, um empathetic and even handed and

472
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: and and researched and a little more like journalistic on

473
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: the podcast, right, but uh, you know, using bad words

474
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: to discuss people, places and things, and so it's a

475
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: little bit more like intense, and it's a little bit

476
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: more aggressive, and it's a little bit um edgier. And

477
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: I do use foul language, and I do kind of like,

478
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, make jokes and things. So what I have

479
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: My thing is there are so many men who have

480
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: made millions of dollars being such abuse of pieces of

481
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 1: ship for absolutely no reason. I can tell a couple

482
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: of fucking jokes. Okay, it's fine, So I do my

483
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: reviews lead to the series. People have overwhelmingly like agreed

484
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: that the series objectively is bad, that the series objectively

485
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: centers Abraham and a B, that the He's made her frumpy,

486
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: that the casting choice was wrong, and that there are

487
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons to be upset with the series.

488
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: So for the most part, folks are seeing the same thing.

489
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,719
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of Latino men in particular,

490
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: many of them being gay men, who just don't want

491
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: to hear it, and who have said to me in

492
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: five and six paragraph long essays and my comments section

493
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: and on Twitter that I need to stop complaining and

494
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: just watch it and just appreciate it and be grateful

495
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: that they put us on screen. Anyways, I was told

496
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: to put on my skates and take a lap and

497
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: um to all of those men, I say, Mini Abraham.

498
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: Yet guy at the be quiet. Literally nobody wants to

499
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: hear from you, and literally nobody cares. Like it's just

500
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 1: this is not your conversation, and you are a part

501
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: of the problem, you know. Like the series centered men,

502
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: it's for men, it's by men. I'm sorry, honestly, of

503
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: course men are going to cape for it. Men are

504
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: gonna love it. Men are going to see the value

505
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: in it. Then are going to see themselves in it. Um,

506
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter because it's not about you. But they

507
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: made it up. They continue to make it about themselves,

508
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. There have been some women

509
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: who have told me that, like, I'm just I should

510
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: be talking about world hunger and b M l um

511
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: and the environment and directing my anger towards those causes

512
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: instead of tearing down another leftina. And my thing is

513
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: like film criticism and TV criticism and commenting on an

514
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: actress's performance is like very valid in part for the course,

515
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: like everybody does it like we can. We can criticize

516
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: and actresses work, you know, like it's fine. So that's

517
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: what we're doing here. And I think that an actress

518
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: like Christians Sorados, who has been in the industry for

519
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: some time on The Walking Dead, one of the most

520
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: popular TV shows ever, Okay, she was in Twilight, Like,

521
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: she's not an up and coming actress. She's not like

522
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: a young, bootstrapping, like you know, no name actress who's

523
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: trying to make it in Hollywood. That is not her narrative.

524
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: It's just not. And I just feel like someone like

525
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: Christian Serato's probably should have a little bit more self

526
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: awareness about her strengths and that the people around her

527
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: should have said no. Somebody needed to say no to this.

528
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: Someone should have said no, that the role is not right,

529
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: the casting is off. But that didn't happen here. Nobody

530
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: said no. And I wonder did they screen test the

531
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: show in front of anybody. I really want to know

532
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: if they had audiences preview this. I'm curious because it

533
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it and they've already filmed a second season,

534
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: so I don't know if it's I don't know if

535
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: it's going to get better. How could it? Did they

536
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: give it a chance to get fee back before they

537
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: filmed it? That's a very very fair point. Um. Yeah.

538
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: I also want to remind people that you're with one person.

539
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: You're an individual with one person, independent podcast, and yes,

540
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: with influence, you absolutely have influence of course, um. But

541
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: there are you know, publications such as L Times and

542
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: Time Magazine that have also you know Vice, um, L

543
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: you know that have also released their reviews. Um. And

544
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: you know, I want us to interrogate why we're able

545
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: to tear down a beautiful, smart woman and why we're

546
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: able to reject you know, what she's saying and call

547
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: and call it um you know, hating or um tearing

548
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: Latinos down. You know, I want us to interrogate that

549
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: as a community, why we're okay doing that? Right? There's

550
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 1: that piece. There's that piece. Also, I thought we were

551
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: canceling Latini about anyways. I thought Latina that was canceled anyways,

552
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: so well, the people that the people that are critiquing

553
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: you are not of the counseling Latinidas discourse space right right.

554
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 1: I want to say they're probably Hispanic capital Ah they are, yep.

555
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: And you know what the production reads as a Capital

556
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: H Hispanic production. Interesting. I'm sorry they gave it. They

557
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: gave it the novella treatment, but not in a good way.

558
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: Not in a good way, not in a good way. Yeah,

559
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I also want to remind folks that you know,

560
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: the Celia series was a tele novella. It was on

561
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 1: Telemundo and it was really good. It was really good.

562
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: It was really a lot of episodesisode. I watched them all,

563
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: like a lot of episodes, good episodes. Yeah, yes, I

564
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: mean we could the actress who played Celia um beautiful actress,

565
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: really engaging actress, and an actress who can dance and

566
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: who could move, and who made me who had body,

567
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: and who made me believe her perform, who made me

568
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: believe her embodiment. It's so sad that the defenders of

569
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: the show basically have to admit that the actress doesn't

570
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: move well enough to play Selena and doesn't really look

571
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: enough like Selena to play her, but we should still

572
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: just suspend, you know, our disbelief and just kind of

573
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: go with it. Anyways, Like that's kind of been the

574
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: argument that I'm seeing, Like, so what if she doesn't

575
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: dance as well as her? So what if she's doesn't

576
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: look like her? You know, if you want an exact

577
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: representation of Selena, go watch the movie. And it's like,

578
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: so you admit it, this is a really bad representation

579
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: of Selena and we should just watch the movie instead. Yeah,

580
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, I I admit that maybe if the person

581
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: they cast it could at least dance and even like

582
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: physically looked like Selena, I would be able to get

583
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: past it. I think it's really hard, you know, with

584
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,359
Speaker 1: anyone's face to like be able to replicate. I could

585
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: get past that. Um, but the dancing was a part

586
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: of her identity, and so it's you cannot separate it

587
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 1: from who she was. Um, neither can you separate her,

588
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: you know, her body and what she represented and the

589
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: space she took up both physically and um, you know,

590
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 1: emotionally for our community. Yeah, alright, y'all, So we are

591
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: super excited to have our next guest with us. In conversation,

592
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: she is a Selena Scholar. Dr Deborah Bades. She is

593
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 1: a poet and interdisciplinary performance scholar whose lectures and publications

594
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: examine Black and Latin X popular culture, poetry of war

595
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: and fitness, feminist elegy, cultural memory, and the role of

596
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: divas in American culture. She is the author of the

597
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: award winning critical study Selenida, Selena Latinos and the Performance

598
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: of Memory. She has been featured and her work has

599
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: appeared in The New York Times, l A Review of Books,

600
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: National Public Radio, Boston Review, Poetry, Feminist Studies, and elsewhere.

601
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: Her research and writing have been supported by the Hedgebrook

602
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: Center for Women Writers, the American Association of University Women,

603
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: and the Alfredo de Morale Foundation. She received her PhD

604
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: in Interdisciplinary Theater and Performance at Northwestern University and her

605
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: b a in English at Trinity University. She is eight

606
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: the Hannah. Born and raised in San Antonio, she has

607
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: lived on both coast and diered a handful of Chicago winters,

608
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: and taught American poetry in Paris, while remaining rooted in

609
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: her the Hannah, love of Selena and the spurs. We

610
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: are super excited to have dr Bars and look at

611
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: the radio today, we really felt like we voted it

612
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,439
Speaker 1: to ourselves, to Selena and to our listeners to bring

613
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: in somebody who has truly dedicated her life to the

614
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: study the understanding, um and love of Selena, her music,

615
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: and her legacy. So we wanted to bring in the

616
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: big guns basically to help us contextualize our feelings about Selena.

617
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: The series also a very intentional choice to choose that

618
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: the Hannah, might I add, because while the Selena fandom

619
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: and love is real, we also understand the importance of

620
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: Selena to Texans right and that cultural importance and significance.

621
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: So no, everything that we do is with intention. So

622
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: without further ado, we're going to head into a quick

623
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 1: song break and then we're going to welcome Dr Deborah.

624
00:38:27,360 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: But it is vodka of It and ship all right,

625
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: Look on, what is remember that? Look a Thought now

626
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: runs ads on our podcast. If ads are not your

627
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: thing and you would rather have an ad free look

628
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: at Thought our listening experience, sign up to become a

629
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 1: Look at Thought our radio patren on patreon dot com

630
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: for ad free listening. We are also gonna be implementing

631
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: regular pil recap events for our patrons, so that means

632
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 1: that after Look where we talk about significant happenings in

633
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: the world, things of interest to our listeners, we're gonna

634
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: host Patreon only zoom conversations where we get to hear

635
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: from our listeners. We get to hear from you all

636
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: about your thoughts, your feelings about the topics that we've bards.

637
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 1: So we're actually going to be hosting our first look

638
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: at Patreon capttle recap this Saturday after our the Selena

639
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 1: episode drops. So if you want to be a part

640
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: of that cappy little recap, head to patreon dot com

641
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: and become a patron today. Also, we would like to

642
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 1: invite all of you to donate to our venmo. We

643
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 1: are still an independent podcast and everything that you see

644
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: that everything that we produce comes out of pocket, and

645
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 1: so if you'd like to give a little donation, show

646
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: us a little love, or if you are looking for

647
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: a finedom drain and aspire to me our human wallet,

648
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: escort yourself over to our venmo at local dash Radio. Alright, look,

649
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: aw Motives. We are super excited to be joined by

650
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: the phenomenal, phenomenal Debra. But it is thank you so much,

651
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: Debora for joining us today. Thank you so much for

652
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: having me. It's really a pleasure for me to be

653
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: here and in conversation with the both of you. We

654
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 1: have been looking forward to this interview, Um, even before

655
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: we booked it with you, we were thinking about how

656
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: we could invite you onto the show, and this seems

657
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: like the most fitting moment given UH Selena the series

658
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: on Netflix, and we want to touch upon Selena the series,

659
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: but we also just want to talk to you about

660
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: Selena Kithenia, about your work around Selena, your your book

661
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,719
Speaker 1: Seleni that and give our listeners a chance to to

662
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: hear from really a Selena scholar, UH Selena expert to

663
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: help us put our thoughts and feelings about the show

664
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: into context. I very much look forward to that. Yeah,

665
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: And you know, UM, I just want to say that

666
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: I've been following your work for many years. When I

667
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: was an undergrad at UC Santa Barbara, I worked at

668
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: the Multicultural Center and I had found a flyer from

669
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 1: when the m c C had booked you to speak there,

670
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: and I was like, we need to bring her back

671
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: because I wasn't a student at the time, and so

672
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,320
Speaker 1: I had been really following your work for many years

673
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: and was just super um enamored with your work around

674
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: performance studies and selenid that. So this is truly a

675
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: treat for me. So thank you again, UM, and so

676
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: let's just get into the conversation. UM. At this point,

677
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's been almost a week since the Netflix

678
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: series has launched. Have you seen it yet? Do you

679
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: plan on seeing it? Thank you for that question, and

680
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 1: thank you for the long time support of the work.

681
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: It's been such a pleasure to work on a project

682
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,359
Speaker 1: about Selena's fans, um and all of the important work

683
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: I think they're doing over the many years that I've

684
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 1: been watching. So I have not yet watched the Sealina series,

685
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: only because I have a kid who's at home in

686
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: zoom school, and so I haven't had that chunk of

687
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 1: time entirely too to watch it. But I will say

688
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: that I have a sense of dread, I guess, or

689
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 1: I'm sort of feel like I'm I'm um kind of

690
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 1: bracing myself for it. And I think that that's UM.

691
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: How many I think many of us who have been

692
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 1: Selena's Selena fans or who have been following Selena fans

693
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 1: for so long often approached kind of officially sanctioned or

694
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: family approved or industry approved kind of biographies or stories

695
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: about her, with a sense of you know, precaution, if

696
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes a sense of all after it. Um.

697
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: I think because fans have known all along, right, that

698
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: many of us like claim to Selena for all kinds

699
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: of ways, and that there's often been of real limitations

700
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: right to how the official stories kind of present her,

701
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: and so yeah, so, I think part of me is

702
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: also waiting for not just the physical time that I

703
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: have to watch it, but for for the for the

704
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: emotional space to be kind of ready for perhaps some

705
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: of the same kinds of stories we might have been

706
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: hearing before that that many fans I know kind of

707
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: um either are less interested in or in some ways

708
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: kind of push against. Yeah so, I'm really interested in

709
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 1: the sense of dread specifically because I think that many

710
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: of us felt the same way I know I did,

711
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: seeing even just the promotional materials and the short clips

712
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: of things like dancing and dret I think is accurate.

713
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about even like the intensity

714
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: of like the reactions that we're having to these things,

715
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 1: and why so I'd love to hear from you about

716
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: like your experience with that. Sure, you know, I um,

717
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: I think that it's so interesting In some ways, I find,

718
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 1: you know, it to be important that a new generation

719
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: of you know, not just let the next communities, but

720
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 1: you know, more broadly speaking, all kinds of folks will

721
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 1: be exposed to Selena if they haven't been. But I

722
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't. It reminds me of how many of us

723
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: felt when the movie came out, right, the Warner Brothers

724
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: Greggan now that directed um biopic came out, that there

725
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: was the sense that so many of us um fee

726
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: that Selena Um was so much more than just her

727
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: biography the details of her biography, or was so much

728
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: more valuable to us than someone who was a good

729
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: girl who listened to what her family said, right. And

730
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: I think that, um so that you know, the often

731
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: the official remembrances kind of focus only on those kinds

732
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 1: of things, and so and often I think to the

733
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: exclusion of the various ways that either young Latina's or

734
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: queer communities have often you know, sort of been drawn

735
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: to her. There's often a very explicit, um exclusion of

736
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: of those kinds of voices in the remembrances of her.

737
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: And and I think that very thing that very urged

738
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: to control her image beyond death. Um, is actually part

739
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: of the reason so many people are drawn to her

740
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: where it'side right, even even after death, there's still this

741
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: this drive to control the young, you know, Latina's image

742
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: or body or you know, or output or whatever, or

743
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 1: to exploit it. You know that maybe that perception sometimes.

744
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: So I think that that, having having been around folks

745
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: who for so long have been teaching me so much

746
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: about Selena vandom and my own relationship to it, has

747
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: has made me approached this the new series in the

748
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 1: same way. And you know, um, I again, I haven't

749
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: seen it yet, but when I do, I imagine that

750
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: will be some of what I carry with me to it.

751
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: I think so many of us are drawn to Selena

752
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: because of that what we perceive, or what I've perceived,

753
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: as a rebellious energy. Right. She may not have rebelled

754
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 1: against her family in in the literal sense of I'm

755
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: not going to do this, I'm not going to perform,

756
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: but in the way she actually performed her Latini, that

757
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: her femininity. UM, I think that is the rebellious energy

758
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: that we're really attracted to, drawn to twenty five years later, right,

759
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: and so I mean, let's even talk about the timeline.

760
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: It's been twenty five years. Is there a part of

761
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 1: you that is surprised that her legacy has persevered so strongly?

762
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: We've had, you know, the Mac cosmetics line, now we

763
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,799
Speaker 1: have a Netflix series. What are your thoughts on that?

764
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: You know, there is a part of me that was

765
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there was a part of me that was

766
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: surprised that she became so phenomenally popular to begin with,

767
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,240
Speaker 1: not because she wasn't tremendously talented and had this larger

768
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: than life persona, but just simply because, you know, she

769
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: and as much as she was a kind of Latina star,

770
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: she was also very explicitly to Hannah, and as we know,

771
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: within the kind of spectrum of Latina, Johanna's often aren't

772
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: the coolest, considered the coolest, right, we were often the

773
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,400
Speaker 1: considered the ones with the best dance moves or whatever.

774
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,839
Speaker 1: So to me, it was already kind of phenomenal, right,

775
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: that she possessed so much, right, so much charisma, so

776
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: much talent um, and and so much of a kind

777
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: of force of personality that she even you know, she

778
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: became popular globally across the range of Latin X communities,

779
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 1: and so then um even and now I think twenty

780
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: five years later, you know, I I say, I've been

781
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: doing more interviews about her in the last few years

782
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: than I did in all the years before that. And

783
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of reasons. I think one

784
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: it really speaks to the incredible dearth of representation of

785
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: Latina's in popular culture. Right. There hasn't been someone who's

786
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,879
Speaker 1: replaced her, so to speak. And that's not because there

787
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 1: aren't phenomenally talented Latina's out there, you know, It's because

788
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: of the very limited range of representations that were often allowed.

789
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: Right It's either like the sexy girl or you know,

790
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: something like that, or the game banger, you know, like

791
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 1: girlfriend or whatever. Right that those persist, those kinds of

792
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: limited representations still persist, and so there isn't there hasn't

793
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: been space, um that's been kind of allowed for a

794
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: range of representations. And so I think people keep turning

795
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: understandably to this one amazing figure who has guided us.

796
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: I think another reason is that it continued she Her

797
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: death happened during you know, in the middle of the nineties,

798
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: when there was a tremendous amount of legislative and pol

799
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 1: see kind of forces at work that we're very, very

800
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: harmful to Latin X communities. And I mean we are

801
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: now in a moment which is is you know, shocking

802
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: to me that that is it's worse, you know, if

803
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: certainly not continued, but absolutely in some ways worse. And

804
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 1: so because Selena has always been a kind of source

805
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: of solace um that let you know, seek out during

806
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 1: these horrible times, I'm not surprised that there is a

807
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 1: kind of you know, that there remains in interest. And

808
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: then finally, I would say, you know, there's a new generation,

809
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: and I feel like, you know, there are certain things

810
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 1: that culturally we hand down to our generations right as

811
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 1: Latin the next communities, you know, whether you know, whether

812
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: that is learning a particular dance move right. And I

813
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: think for so many of us, Selena and either her

814
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: particular songs or her particular style becomes the things we

815
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: hand down either at THEA teaches us or a gate

816
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: a gay THEO teaches us, you know, or or our

817
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: mom teaches us. And I think those three reasons are

818
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: in large part why we continue to see her have

819
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: such a central space place in Latin X culture. And

820
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: broader American culture. Thank you so much for that. Um

821
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: really rich like background. I've seen some conversations going around

822
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: about the question of exploitation and Selena's name and likeness

823
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: and whether or not the family exploits her or the

824
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: fans exploit her, or if there's a complicity there with

825
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: things like the as I mentioned, like the Forever twenty

826
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: one line in the MAC line and now you know

827
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: the Netflix series. So I'm interested in that that question,

828
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,240
Speaker 1: and I'm really interested in your your take on that. Sure,

829
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: you know, I think that question around exploitation and commodification

830
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,879
Speaker 1: has been um at the heart of selena commemoration from

831
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: the very beginning, right when we saw People magazine, Um,

832
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: you know issued it's double it's sort of two different covers,

833
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 1: you know, when she died. Part of the country got

834
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:57,439
Speaker 1: Selena on the cover, the southwestern states mostly, and then

835
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: the rest of the country got the cast of Friends, right,

836
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: which sort of tells us so much about this country, right.

837
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: And then what happened was the Sealina issue sold out overnight,

838
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:07,919
Speaker 1: and then they issued another one, and then that sold

839
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: out overnight, and then People Magazine said, oh my goodness,

840
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 1: one there's Latinos out there and too they buy stuff. WHOA,

841
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: what can we do about that? And then they immediately

842
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: and this is all documented not only my book, but

843
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: in People Magazine's own pages. They they that became the

844
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 1: inspiration for launching UH People in Espanol. Right, So that

845
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: her her the space of her memorialization has always from

846
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 1: the beginning been a space of of marketing, right, and

847
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: of of commodification of industries, kind of stumbling upon Latinos

848
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 1: as a market base, right, constructing us that way, and

849
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: so you know, and there has been conversations from the

850
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: beginning as well about how much or to what extent

851
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 1: her family continue to capitalize on her, either before and

852
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,799
Speaker 1: after her death, certainly, and I think that those are

853
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: all super important questions that we can continue to ask, right,

854
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 1: whether it's Matt Cosmetics, whether it's you know, um buying

855
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: a T sile you know, T shirt at Target or

856
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 1: whatever that that is, all those things are there, and

857
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: I think it's really important. And simultaneously, I also have

858
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: been much more interested in what fans are doing with

859
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: that mac lipstick, right, what is possible for them? Right?

860
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,800
Speaker 1: Or what are fans doing with the boostier that they

861
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 1: kind of individually put the little you know, sparkly studs on. Right, that,

862
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 1: certainly we could. I think it's important to talk about

863
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 1: the commodification and the exploitation. But I also think that

864
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: the more interesting and um nuanced and complicated work and

865
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: transformative work is happening among those fans who, even as

866
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: they may be do you know what I'm not even doing,

867
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 1: even as they may be encouraged to buy the lipstick, right,

868
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean they're kind of blindly non critical forces

869
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 1: out in the world, right, but that they are finding

870
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 1: that they can be something, or do something, or achieve

871
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: something that they might not otherwise by remembering or coming Selena. Yeah,

872
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: you know, I'm definitely in the demographic that has like

873
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: the Mac Cosmetic slipsticks. Right. Um it was it literally

874
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: launched on my birthday, so multiple people gifted it to me,

875
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: and um, to me, it felt like a time capsule,

876
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: like Selena is no longer here, but look at the movement, right,

877
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 1: look at how she's impacted generations. Right. I was three

878
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: when she passed away, Right, But I have known her

879
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: my whole life. I have family and the has I

880
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: have family in San Antonio, and so for me It's

881
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: like the phenomenon of Selena and her impact and legacy

882
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: has always been present in my life, and I think

883
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: for many Latina's. Um, I'm curious for you because we're

884
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,399
Speaker 1: both you know, l A born and raised for La based. Um,

885
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: I'm curious for you as a the Hannah, your own.

886
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 1: I want to hear your own connection to Selena and

887
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: how I don't know if, if, if, how it free hides,

888
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: because I don't think that's as important, But I just

889
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: want to hear your connection to Selena as a Tahannah

890
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: and maybe how it's a little different from ours as

891
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: you know Latinas in l A. Sure, that's a great question,

892
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: because I think studying Selena and her fans teach us

893
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: a lot about like Latinidad more broadly, right, you know,

894
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: and how so many of us come together under the umbrella.

895
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: But it also teaches us so much about the regional

896
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: distinctions within that right or nationalist ones or whatever. And

897
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 1: I think that you know, I, you know, I Selena

898
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: and I were the same age. We were only maybe

899
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 1: six or eight months apart in age, and like her,

900
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,919
Speaker 1: my family had been in Texas for many generations, so um,

901
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: she and I had a kind of very similar as

902
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: many Tahanas of our generation did very similar relationships towards

903
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: the learning of Spanish, right, you know, our Spanish wasn't

904
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,840
Speaker 1: ever really quite good enough, and we were sort of

905
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: always negotiating those ideas around authenticity in regards to our

906
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: language acquisition. And so generationally, you know, like Selena, I

907
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,799
Speaker 1: grew up listening to my dad playing Tohano music and

908
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: to you know, trying to learn Janet Jackson's moves, right, Like,

909
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: all of those things really resonated with me generationally, and

910
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 1: so I think, what so for me, you know, listening

911
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 1: to her sound, it was very um there was something

912
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,920
Speaker 1: I so connected with because it was a combination of

913
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 1: all those forces, right, and in that way, very Tehano,

914
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: very American, right, very Latin, you know. And the thing

915
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 1: that was exciting for me was the way she was

916
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: bringing in influences into Tehano music, which had been the

917
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: music of our parents. Right. We were not trying to

918
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: kind of get into that, you know, because it seemed

919
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: really masculinist. It seemed like it had kind of strict

920
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: kind of musical kind of like um uh strictures, and

921
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: she was bringing in kind of you know, you know,

922
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: she and her brother, you know, bringing in kind of

923
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: Soca sounds or kind of Caribbean rhythms into and kind

924
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: of really making it something that I think um appealed

925
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: to so many folks like me. And then also, you know,

926
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: she was this young woman trying to like being large

927
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: of her own image, right, you know, in designing her

928
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: own costumes, she was really trying to kind of be entrepreneurial, right,

929
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,160
Speaker 1: which means which of course I read and many young

930
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: Latinas at the time read, is like securing financial independence,

931
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: which was extremely important to those of us who felt

932
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: like our sexuality, or our economic independence, or even our

933
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 1: just mobility in other ways was constantly being policed, not

934
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: just by our families or patriarchal cultures, but but by

935
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: the community, by the you know, country more largely. And

936
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 1: so I think I I experienced her and then obviously

937
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: her death. I was living in Chicago when she died,

938
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 1: and it was devastating, you know, I was with it

939
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: was It was a moment where I was also really

940
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: coming to know and becoming very good friends with other Latinas,

941
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 1: right from you know, Puerto Ricans and uh and all

942
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: and all kinds and so it was also amazing to

943
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: me that just as much as I was grieving her

944
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 1: as someone who was, you know, almost like a shadow

945
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: self to me in terms of the kinds of generational

946
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: and regional context connections we had, that my you know,

947
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: my friends were feeling the same way. And I thought, Wow,

948
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: even though there's very much kind of a cultural and

949
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,800
Speaker 1: regional specificity here, there's something else too that she connects

950
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: with four people beyond that. And so for me, that's

951
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: kind of how how I experienced it. And and also,

952
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: I will say, because she was working in a genre

953
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: that belonged like to our parents, right and but bringing

954
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: to it our own sensibilities, she became a kind of

955
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: common language right across generations that we didn't always have,

956
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: which was I think really important and a new thank

957
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: you so much that was so um yes, I agree, yes,

958
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: and which really makes me think about all of the

959
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 1: hullabaloo around casting Selina. Now the two times that it

960
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: has happened on like a large scale, so j Lo

961
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: as Selena, there was a lot of conversation around j

962
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: Los casting a Selena, and now with the casting of

963
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 1: Christians Serratos as Selena and Selena, the series there's a

964
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: ton of conversation about casting Selena. So my question for

965
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 1: you dr about it, this is what are the expectations

966
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: for casting Selena and what would it take to get

967
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: it right? That is such a great question, right, Casting

968
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: has always been so loaded because one I think it's

969
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,360
Speaker 1: it's it becomes a very fraighted question, partly related to

970
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: what I said earlier about the fact that there's such

971
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: limited representation at all. So so every time there is

972
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,600
Speaker 1: an opportunity for casting a brown woman, all of the

973
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: all of the expectations, and the longings and and the

974
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 1: demands get get heightened, right and intensified because there's still

975
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:52,439
Speaker 1: a few opportunities, which speaks to a larger systemic industry problem. Right. Um.

976
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: And so then the second thing I would say is

977
00:58:55,160 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: that the you know, casting Selena, because Selena dignified a

978
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: certain in certain ways that affirmed often denigrated parts of

979
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: our culture. Right. Her style was often seemed to be

980
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: pretty working class, right, or some called it tacky, right,

981
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: But to us it was just like, oh, this is

982
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:15,920
Speaker 1: the style, you know, this is our style. Uh. She

983
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 1: was not she was brown. She was underdively brown, right,

984
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, she was not like a fair skinned Latina.

985
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: She wasn't after Latina, but she was unmistakably brown, right.

986
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: She hadn't lightened her hair right when she dyed her hair,

987
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: she just kept dyeing it black, right, So all of

988
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: the you know, and her body was not skinny, right,

989
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: She was not a kind of Latina. Right. She was curvacious,

990
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 1: and particularly curvacious, you know in her rear, as many

991
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: people have talked about. And so all of these things

992
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: because these particular phenotypic um and kind of stylistic signs

993
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: affirmed for us that which is often was often denigrated

994
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: when casting came about. And she was Tana, you know,

995
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: Mexican American, and often that doesn't t hananist doesn't off

996
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: and get represented, right, So suddenly all of those things

997
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,919
Speaker 1: become the place that we want, like to be had

998
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: represented in the person who has cast. You know, I

999
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: personally think that the person who plays a character, you know,

1000
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 1: the whole point of acting is to kind of perform

1001
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: someone that's other than you. I don't feel very invested

1002
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: that that person has to be you know, Mexican or

1003
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: Tehana or you know, X Y or Z like certain

1004
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: kinds of things. But I do think that it becomes

1005
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: important because of the limited representation and because of the

1006
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: things that she represented, for those things to be highlighted

1007
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: right or to be affirmed in the representation. So I

1008
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 1: do think that as a result, all of these kinds

1009
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: of things come up with the casting, and I think

1010
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 1: going back to the film and then we can speak

1011
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 1: to the series. You know, for me, what was so

1012
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 1: amazing and as I write about in the book, you know,

1013
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: there were they did these open casting call auditions supposedly, right,

1014
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: and what was so interesting in talking to the young

1015
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: women and girls who auditioned, was theyre so savvy? Right?

1016
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: They were? Many of them said, we know this is

1017
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: a duplicity stunt. We're here for other reasons. Yeah, some

1018
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: of us want to be stars, absolutely, But performing Selena

1019
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: or being Selena or dancing like Selena means like I

1020
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: get to be my you know, my my most talented self.

1021
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 1: Or it means I get to do this like sneaky

1022
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: trip with my mom that my dad doesn't know about,

1023
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,760
Speaker 1: so we can like bond right, Or it can mean

1024
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 1: like I saved up my babysitting money and I came

1025
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 1: out here with my friends and we like took the

1026
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: train from like the way outer suburbs and you know, uh,

1027
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: and and we're just here because we love Selena and

1028
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: we want to bond around loving Selena. Right, So they

1029
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: were very savvy about like, these people don't really want

1030
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: to employ us, you know, or or celebrate us, and

1031
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: yet they can't out a space for that. And I

1032
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: think that's what I mean by so for Selena fans

1033
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: for so long have approached those official commemoration spaces like

1034
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: to kind of do with it what they will instead

1035
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: of having it determine how they remember her. And I

1036
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: think I've heard and again since I haven't seen the series,

1037
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: but I have her, um that uh, you know that

1038
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: certainly the body type often becomes a space, at least

1039
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 1: in the new series of like perhaps this is an

1040
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: actress that's perhaps been in Hollywood long enough to have

1041
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: like a skinniness, right that Selena didn't have, or things

1042
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: like that that I think, you know, are are important

1043
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: to to address. Yeah, I agree. I think that there

1044
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: are valid concerns about the casting of the current Netflix series, um,

1045
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: and I think that they should be taken seriously. You know,

1046
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: I think there's kind of because we you know, we've

1047
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: been we're very much on social media or very much online.

1048
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: Mala has you know, released her own scathing review of

1049
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 1: the series, and I haven't really publicly stayed in my opinion.

1050
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 1: But what I continue to see is people almost interpret

1051
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: some any type of criticism as like us relishing or

1052
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 1: being happy that the series isn't good, or that we're

1053
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: tearing down another Latina. It's and I I part of

1054
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: me feels bad for Christian Seratos that she is, you know,

1055
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: facing all this criticism, but I'm also really are more

1056
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: upset at the casting. You know, she shouldn't have been

1057
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: given this this role. They really to me, you know,

1058
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: as an indie podcaster, there was so much potential to

1059
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:25,400
Speaker 1: invest in new talent, to invest in a brown Latina

1060
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: to play the role. And I think that that's where

1061
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 1: we're at right now. Mala and I in that energy absolutely,

1062
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:33,800
Speaker 1: you know. And this is the thing that I think

1063
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: has has also been true from the beginning, is you know,

1064
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: becoming there's this understanding that becoming Selena can make you

1065
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: can provide opportunities for you, Right, Jennifer Lopez became Selena

1066
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: and then she became j Loo Boom, right, like that

1067
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,960
Speaker 1: was a path that she acknowledges that even you know

1068
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,360
Speaker 1: that I think that many folks would acknowledge. And so

1069
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: here was, as you said, this opportunity for a kind

1070
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: of new star making machine, right, because that is it

1071
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: can be right to be calm, to be to literally

1072
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: you know, perform that role can afford certain opportunities, especially

1073
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 1: for someone again who possesses certain traits that we have

1074
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: historically denigrated, right, And that's part of why we loved her,

1075
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: right And certainly, you know, I think I've said this

1076
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: many times before that Selena she was poised and sort

1077
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: of in the historical timeline of the industry in a

1078
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 1: moment that kind of was very much sort of uh,

1079
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: foreshadowing kind of what would happen with pop diva's right

1080
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: in the years after her, Right, you know, she became

1081
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 1: a kind of prototype in some ways for that, um,

1082
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: but she died before actually a lot of that kind

1083
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: of the formula for that kind of got really kind

1084
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: of instituted right by the industry. So for example, you know,

1085
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: Beyonce talks about her influence in the kind of how

1086
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 1: she shaped her own diva personality. But in the years

1087
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 1: since the nineties, right, we sort of now have a

1088
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 1: kind of formula for like a pop diva, right, she

1089
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:54,880
Speaker 1: has to have a fragrance line, and she has to

1090
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: have this kind of fandom, and she has to have

1091
01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 1: like this kind of kind of shame, especially their divas

1092
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 1: of color, kind of particular shade of you know, foundation,

1093
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 1: you know, or a particular kind of highlight in the

1094
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 1: hair that Selena, you know, she died young enough. And

1095
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 1: also before particular kinds of regulatory regimes, right came a

1096
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: became pretty regularly instituted in the industry. So there's also

1097
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: this part of us that's drawn to like the concessions

1098
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 1: she didn't have to make yet, you know, and that

1099
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: that's really important. And so of course we long to

1100
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 1: see that in the casting or in the representation that

1101
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,520
Speaker 1: is made of her. And so when it's not, it

1102
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 1: does seem like a betrayal, right, or like a particular

1103
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: kind of of not just a you know, an inaccuracy

1104
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 1: that seems to hold much weight. Absolutely, And uh, I

1105
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,720
Speaker 1: do want to point out something really interesting I've noticed

1106
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 1: with the online conversations, and of course the internet is

1107
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: a wild place. All kinds of things happened on the internet.

1108
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 1: People say all kinds of things on the internet. But

1109
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 1: something that I have noticed in giving my critique um

1110
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 1: of Selena the series, a lot of men, a lot

1111
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: of Latino men, telling me on my post and on

1112
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: my pages, stop criticizing it. Just watch it, just appreciate it.

1113
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: Just be grateful that they put us on screen. And

1114
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 1: if you criticize it, they're going to think that all

1115
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 1: Mexicans do is tear each other down and they're never

1116
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: gonna give us anything. Ever. Again, first of all, how

1117
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: freaking dramatic number one, like come on, come on, But

1118
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 1: a lot of men, and um, I find that very interesting,

1119
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: and I wonder what that's about, given what a rebel

1120
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: she was, that being the reason we love her, and

1121
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 1: this dynamic within the community when it comes to critique. Yeah,

1122
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 1: there's so many things. Um, I think your your observation

1123
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: is so stutid, and there's so many I think approaches

1124
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: to that. You know. The first thing I would say

1125
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: is you know that what remember what the spaces of

1126
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: Selena remembering right or or or critical engagement often often

1127
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: like makes clear right are particular not just particular ways

1128
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 1: we come together as let you know, the communities, but

1129
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 1: also the fissures right that like to talk about her

1130
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 1: or to kind of rigorously you know, critique representation of her,

1131
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, brings out kind of like gendered claims, right

1132
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,680
Speaker 1: or sexist you know, often um kind of policing of

1133
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: you know of in this case, you know, your own

1134
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,480
Speaker 1: wants response to it, right or even you know, even

1135
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: if it was a tirade, the point is that that

1136
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 1: that's that's a valid claim to her right. And to

1137
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: have then been you know, ransclained in that particular way

1138
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: also shows right, this is the very thing that drew

1139
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,080
Speaker 1: us to Selena in the first place, was that particular

1140
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 1: kind of And whether or not she was an actual rebel,

1141
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: right doesn't really matter. What matters, I think is the

1142
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: way that she her persona right embodied that kind of

1143
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 1: like unrestrained you know, potential right, that potential to be

1144
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: like I am going to wear this boostier and not apologize,

1145
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 1: and I am gonna sort of you know, speaks English

1146
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: and not apologize, right, And I am going to try

1147
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,080
Speaker 1: to like maintain gain a certain amount of economic independence

1148
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:18,080
Speaker 1: even as you know, the family or the industry tries

1149
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 1: to control me. Right. And so I think that those

1150
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 1: become those those kinds of things then are very important

1151
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 1: for us, and what happens is if we are trying

1152
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,799
Speaker 1: to lay claim to them, often those same policing forces

1153
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: come for us, right. I think that that's very much

1154
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,160
Speaker 1: something that gets revealed in this and I think it

1155
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: also very much speaks to the ways that you know, precisely,

1156
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: I think because Selina negotiated the good girl like not

1157
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 1: so good girl kind of um uh spectrum right in

1158
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: her own, in her own um persona. You know, I

1159
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 1: think that there's always going to be folks who are

1160
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: invested in wanting to have you know, this kind of

1161
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:01,240
Speaker 1: saintly or good daughter image, because that's often, you know,

1162
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 1: what is expected right of Latin the daughters, you know,

1163
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 1: because she'll always be seen as like the daughter who

1164
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: was good, right and because of her youth, because of

1165
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 1: the relationship with the father, because of the ways the

1166
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: official narratives often portray the story as her fulfilling her

1167
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: father's unfulfilled dreams, right, that the narrative very much reinforces

1168
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: that kind of infantilizing So those kinds of things become

1169
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: very clear, those kinds of claims, right, or those investments

1170
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 1: become clear in our engagements with with those memorializations. Yes,

1171
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 1: a loss. You know what Mola and I have been

1172
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: you know, in their nos we've been discussing like a

1173
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 1: young woman doesn't go a lope because she's not you know,

1174
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: constrained at home because she's not you know, uh fulfilled,

1175
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,000
Speaker 1: or or like you know what I mean, like a

1176
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: good daughter, you know, or a good girl doesn't go

1177
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: a lope with someone you know, and Mary's about their family,

1178
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,520
Speaker 1: and I think that that's something that needs to be recognized.

1179
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: As much as we do want to put you know,

1180
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: the good girl well not us, but as much as

1181
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: people want to put the good girl label on her, um,

1182
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: those are factual things, you know. And even if and

1183
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 1: like you said, her persona channel this energy, right and

1184
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: I think there are factual events that happened in her

1185
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: life that you cannot deny. There was some type of

1186
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: you know, rebelia to her. And that's also why you know,

1187
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:32,080
Speaker 1: we continue to be so fascinated by her, because how

1188
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: many of us get to rebel against our parents or

1189
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: do the do the things that are our parents don't

1190
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: want us to do. Absolutely right, it is about what

1191
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 1: particular facts are highlighted or not, or how they're how

1192
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: they're presented and I think also even just thinking about

1193
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,880
Speaker 1: the sound of her singing voice, right, how to kind

1194
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: of depth, how to kind of power, how to kind

1195
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: of force to it that was not you know, a

1196
01:10:56,439 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: pretty little refled there was that you know, that tear

1197
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: in her voice that people talk about. Right that also

1198
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: even just in the sound of that, we could find

1199
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 1: a sense of of rebellion or sorrow or or like

1200
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 1: pushing through the sorrow. Right, So that in both the

1201
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: details of the biography, but even in the ways that

1202
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,080
Speaker 1: we can't quite always you know, have the language for,

1203
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 1: but we know we can hear it right in the

1204
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,600
Speaker 1: in the voice, or we can see it in in

1205
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,719
Speaker 1: the particular movement in the kumbia right that she does

1206
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 1: right in And I think that that that's part of

1207
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 1: what we continue to be drawn to. Right that often

1208
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:33,640
Speaker 1: again gets doesn't always get accounted for in some of

1209
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 1: these official narratives, but that are undeniable right because of

1210
01:11:36,479 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 1: my research, all those series of research bore that out

1211
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 1: right that again and again, communities lat the next communities

1212
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:46,879
Speaker 1: across a number of spectrums really were drawn to those

1213
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:52,000
Speaker 1: ways that she allowed for non normative or historically marginalized

1214
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 1: communities with even within Latina to find a space to

1215
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:57,880
Speaker 1: be at home or to find a space of connection

1216
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 1: as I mean, diva's often do provide that kind of space, right.

1217
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: But um, certainly it's it's undeniable that she was one

1218
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 1: of those who did. Absolutely it's so um watching her

1219
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:13,160
Speaker 1: perform get yes like old videos or she pulls up

1220
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 1: these different men and just absolutely abolishes them just with

1221
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 1: her presence and her sexiness and her body. Like that

1222
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 1: is not like an altar server, you know, Like you

1223
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 1: cannot be an altar server and performed and just destroy

1224
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 1: men and they love it in front of like stadiums,

1225
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: Like that's not how that works, you know, absolutely that

1226
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 1: is such a great example, right, And and the way

1227
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 1: I think also that Selena was so you know, for

1228
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: someone especially so young, so unabashedly like in her body

1229
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 1: and comfortable in that whether or not maybe she was

1230
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: or wasn't is less and less interesting me. But on

1231
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: stage she fully inhabited right her body in a way

1232
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,280
Speaker 1: that was extraordinarily affirming, uh, in a number of ways.

1233
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 1: And also, like just um was was full of a

1234
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 1: kind of of sell possession right that so many of

1235
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: us either you know want to either are searching to

1236
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 1: have ourselves or who who many of us might have,

1237
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 1: but then found in that a sense of affirmation. It's like, yeah,

1238
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: you you go and you you do that too, you know.

1239
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's continues to be what so many,

1240
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: um latin Is in the generations after mine right that

1241
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 1: I'm seeing now continue to be drawn to, which again

1242
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 1: speaks to how much I think we continue to be

1243
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:29,080
Speaker 1: either overlooked or over policed. Right Uh, in many ways

1244
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:32,120
Speaker 1: in the logic culture. It's so true, you know, right

1245
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,400
Speaker 1: right now, as you were speaking, It's true. She she

1246
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: was like literally in using her voice, like in her

1247
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: power and also in her body, which is what we're

1248
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,280
Speaker 1: We're not taught to do that as latinas, especially as

1249
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: young girls, were not taught to use our voice, and

1250
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 1: we're not taught to be comfortable in our bodies. Right

1251
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:53,800
Speaker 1: Our bodies are always public discourse literally in our families.

1252
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,439
Speaker 1: And so for you to say that, yes, it definitely

1253
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 1: connected to that. Right now. Um, I'm curious. You know,

1254
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:03,639
Speaker 1: you mentioned you have a daughter, and so how are

1255
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 1: you cultivating are you cultivating that fandom with her or

1256
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 1: how is that you know, even allowed you to connect

1257
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 1: to your daughter. That's such a great question. So she

1258
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I don't think there's ever been

1259
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,200
Speaker 1: a day when she didn't know about Selena, right, And

1260
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,600
Speaker 1: there's posters and there's music, you know, all over the

1261
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,200
Speaker 1: house in some way in the department, and and yet

1262
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 1: I think she also, um, you know, and she what

1263
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 1: was so interesting to me was she has come home

1264
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: from school several times, you know, and she goes to

1265
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 1: a school in Manhattan where let's just say there's not

1266
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: a lot of brown folks. And even from that, you know,

1267
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 1: she had a science teacher once who said, oh, look

1268
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 1: we mama, we we we looked at the Google doodle today.

1269
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 1: Did you know you know Selena' is the Google Doodle.

1270
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 1: And I was like, look at you learning that at school. Um.

1271
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:48,439
Speaker 1: And so I think that that for for her, I

1272
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 1: feel like one she you know, she is absolutely I think,

1273
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 1: you know, all in when it comes to Selena, you know,

1274
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 1: even as she herself is much more I think she

1275
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,120
Speaker 1: would consider so much more of a tomboy in her

1276
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 1: and her self presentation. But she understands like, oh, that's

1277
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:05,600
Speaker 1: a voice, like because my daughter is quite musical, unlike me,

1278
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 1: and so she's like, wow, like this is a young

1279
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 1: woman who's singing like that, you know, and uh and

1280
01:15:12,160 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: clearly has all the dance moves to go with it,

1281
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,759
Speaker 1: you know. So I think that again, as I've said before,

1282
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:20,360
Speaker 1: and Selena becomes our inheritance in so many ways as latinos,

1283
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:22,880
Speaker 1: and so it's it was like an it was never

1284
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 1: a question whether or not I would like pass on

1285
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: that inheritance to her and and to do for her

1286
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:30,840
Speaker 1: to do with as she will, you know. And and

1287
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:33,400
Speaker 1: I think that's been really a wonderful thing for us

1288
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:37,440
Speaker 1: to experience together. Beautiful. I think that's a really beautiful

1289
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: note to leave the interview off on. Actually Dr Deborah Bades,

1290
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:45,759
Speaker 1: author of Selenivad and they, I mean, just all around

1291
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 1: stellar human being. Um, thank you so much for being

1292
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 1: on the podcast with us today and we're talking about

1293
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 1: such an important legendary figure as Selena Kintunia. I really

1294
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 1: truly appreciate it. It is really my pleasure to talk

1295
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 1: to such smart brown women about her. Finally, you know,

1296
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:08,240
Speaker 1: to have this kind of conversation, you know, at this level,

1297
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 1: it's it's always you know, Selina truly has been such

1298
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 1: a gift to me because it's always talking about her

1299
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,959
Speaker 1: provides me the opportunity to talk to other amazing Latina's

1300
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: about all the things that are possible for us and

1301
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 1: all the things that we grieve. Wow. Yes, on that note,

1302
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 1: thank you so much once again for you know, taking

1303
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 1: the time to have this interview with us. This has

1304
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 1: been such a delight and such a powerful conversation. I

1305
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: know that our listeners are gonna love it. Thank you,

1306
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,559
Speaker 1: Thank you alright, look, I'm what is? Thank you so

1307
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 1: much for tuning into another copy glow of a Look

1308
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,240
Speaker 1: At Radio. We also want to remind you that you

1309
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Speaker 1: and we also have some other merch in the work,

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Speaker 1: so keep an eye out for that and visit Look

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Speaker 1: at radio dot com to shop lokipa we will catch

1321
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:45,919
Speaker 1: you next time. Radio Radio Radio Commies, A Myth and Bullshit,

1322
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:51,400
Speaker 1: A radio phonic novella. Lok Radio hosted by Malamo