1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,920 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: Alexis code name Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: want you to know. It's the top of the week, 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: which means it's time for some more strange news. We 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: have a cavalcade of weird stuff, and I think all 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: air we we tried to have at least one semi 13 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 1: optimistic story that off air we decided to save for 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: the end and full confession fellow conspiracy realists, Matt old Doc, 15 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: I'm cheating just a little bit with my story today 16 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: because it's an opportunity to talk about one of my 17 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: favorite kinds of animals in the world. Octopuses you're thinking 18 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: no but close, and also bachers you're thinking no but close, Yeah, 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: arguably closer. Definitely Ferrets. Oh gosh, well, now I'm now 20 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: I feel like we should just do an animal show, 21 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: because those are all great suggestions, But today I wanted 22 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about Corvitt's about crows. Uh, 23 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: these amazing creatures have often been lauded more and more 24 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: of late for their intelligence, which for a long time 25 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: did not make sense to ornithologists scientologists, I mean scientists, 26 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: well maybe scientologists too, and and you know, neuroscientists around 27 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: the world, because crows have a very very small brain, 28 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: but they do things that ordinarily we only think of 29 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: other animals being capable of doing, namely mammals. So crows 30 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: can teach their young and the other members of their 31 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: murder across generations to remember the faces of those who 32 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: have wronged them and the faces of those who have 33 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: helped them. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy stuff. And just to 34 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: be clear, they aren't teaching murder, they teach the other 35 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: crows around them. They do. They do also teach murder 36 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, yes, way to So what's happening here 37 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: is that scientists may have finally figured out why crows, 38 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: which have such a small small brain comparatively, are so 39 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: incredibly intelligent, why they can do things that humans and 40 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: elephants and some octopuses. Again, that is the correct plural. Well, 41 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: octopis acceptable to but whatever, not a hill to die on. Uh? 42 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: They found out why these birds can think at such 43 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: a high level. We found out recently through some research 44 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: unveiled earlier this month in September, that crows are capable 45 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: of medical cognition. This is like a holy grail of philosophy. 46 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: Meta cognition is just the fancy word for being able 47 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: to think about thinking. So when you know, when you 48 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: are having your renee to car moment and you say 49 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: I think, therefore I am, and you're thinking about your thinking. 50 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: It turns out these birds can do that too. Why 51 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: how this shouldn't be able to at least that was 52 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 1: our thought. Now we can explain it because it seems that, 53 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: based on two papers that were studying that were recently released, 54 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: it seems that crows have a very high density of 55 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: neurons in their very small brains. So it's um, It's like, imagine, how, uh, 56 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: something like popcorn or celery has maybe relatively low caloric content, 57 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: and the same amount of peanut butter would have more 58 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 1: caloric content. Their brains are peanut butter. That sounds like 59 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: an insult, but I know, I know, what you mean 60 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: by that? Yeah, it's like the new app and if 61 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: this isn't a sponsorship, but they help you lose weight 62 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: by pushing the less calorically dense things like you can 63 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: eat like your weight and lettuce and it's like two calories. 64 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: But if you eat just that's you know, tablespoon of 65 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: peanut butter mayo, it's like, you know the equivalent of 66 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: eating a whole bag of cabbage or something like that. 67 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: Very interesting, ben So what does this mean for like 68 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: the way they behave or at least what scientists understand 69 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: about the intention? Are you bind the way they behave? Yeah? Yeah, 70 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:05,239 Speaker 1: great questions. So cruise brain has about one point five 71 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: billion neurons. This puts them as as members of the 72 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: TV show community would say, streets ahead in comparison to 73 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: other aviens. They did a test where like, how do 74 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: you prove how do you prove something so deep as 75 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: the concept of crows thinking about thinking? Right? Do you 76 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: just smoke a lot of weeds so you convince yourself 77 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: that's not a crazy question? Do you write? Maybe they do, 78 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: but then they do some science. So they wanted to 79 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: test whether crows can both be aware of and analyze 80 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: the contents of their literal bird brains. A neurobiologist named 81 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: Andreas Nighter from the University of Cubanjin in Germany trained 82 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 1: two crows to peck at a red or a blue 83 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: target on a panel, depending on whether they saw a 84 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: faint light. And this neurobiologist kept varying the rules of 85 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 1: the game, so the crows would be told which color, 86 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: what meant what after the flash, Like they would see 87 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: a flash, and sometimes they would have to peck the 88 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: red target to say that to acknowledge they had seen it, 89 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: but then other times they have to peck the blue target. 90 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: That's important because it means the crows have to take 91 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: a second or two to figure out what they had 92 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: seen earlier and then exhibit that behavior to the neurobiologists. 93 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: And while they were doing this, they're tracking these crows 94 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: uh neurological activity. And they found that sensory neurons were 95 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: active when a crow saw the flash, and these neurons 96 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: indicated the crow's brain basically saying yeah, I saw that uh. 97 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: And if they did not see this flash, those sensory 98 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: neurons were silent and the crow it's a peck, No, 99 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: I didn't see anything. And this means that the birds 100 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: are aware of what they subjectively perceive and they're correctly 101 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: reporting what their neurons will tell them. That sounds a 102 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: bit in the weeds. I get it. There's a little 103 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: bit of jargon, but the main takeaway is this they 104 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: have behavioral flexibility. That's probably one of the best definitions 105 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: of intelligence that our species has. We have mostly terrible 106 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: definitions of intelligence. And this means crows are able to 107 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: do something that only two other animals can do, human 108 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: beings and McCall monkeys. I know that last one's kind 109 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: of a plot twist, but so now it's the three 110 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: of us. Uh. I'm mainly using this story, by the way, 111 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: uh it is amazing science. By mainly using this to 112 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: tell you about the other interesting thing I learned you 113 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: guys about crow intelligence. Crows are in an unending war 114 00:07:52,880 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: with certain types of owls. Okay, what like like does 115 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: go back generations to some you know period where an 116 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: owl wrong to crow and they've just generationally you carried 117 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: on this beef of like a hat field in McCoy 118 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: type situation or is it something biological? This is incredible. 119 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: It seems to be both genetically imprinted. You can take 120 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: a crow raised in captivity and it'll have never encountered 121 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: an owl and it'll just freak out smash on site. 122 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: And owls are the same way, especially the great horned owl. 123 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,599 Speaker 1: Owls are like Okay, so I was thinking of the 124 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: good and a good analogy here, So picture crows and 125 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: owls in their in their unending existential war. Crews are 126 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: kind of like the humans, and owls are kind of 127 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: like the vampires or the monsters that go bump in 128 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 1: the night. Owls are unparalleled nocturnal predators in the world 129 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: of crows. Uh, and owls are a lot like great 130 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: horrid Owls especially are a lot like serial killers when 131 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: it comes to rows. If they find um a roost 132 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: of crows, then they will kill them, even if they 133 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: don't need to eat anything. There's one great report from 134 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: Capeing Islands that shows a great horned owl had basically 135 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: done a breaking an entering operation on a roost of 136 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: nine crows, and their bodies were untouched except for their 137 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: heads which were partially removed, and their brains were eaten. Yeah, 138 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: was sick amazing. Um. It reminds me of the time 139 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: when I lived in Athens, that a bunch of frat 140 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: boys stole a great horned owl from the outdoor zoo. Wait, 141 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: it's nothing like that at all, but it's unclear. But 142 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: but did you hear about owls? Um? There was a 143 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: story I heard an NPR a couple of years ago 144 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: about a woman who was walking late at night and 145 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: something kind of swooped down and like then she felt 146 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: blood running down her face and apparently it was an 147 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: owl that can they can fly soundlessly in the night, 148 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: and they must have mistook or the owl must have 149 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: mistook this woman's hair for like a vole or some small, 150 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: you know, delicious rodents. I don't know that we have 151 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: an epidemic of owls attacking humans or corvid's attacking humans, 152 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: because that would be my hell on Earth, by the way, 153 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: just write that out there. Yeah. Owls also are capable 154 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: of successfully predating on cats, Like they can snatch up 155 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: grown cats. Uh. I don't think. I think they're one 156 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: of the things. Owls can't swallow a whole. But but 157 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: when we think of this, we we know that because 158 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,359 Speaker 1: of their intelligence, then crews are in some cases functioning 159 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: like vampire hunters. They're saying, let's like they have to 160 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: attack and mass, right, they have to attack in numbers 161 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: and do what's called mobbying the owl. And so they'll 162 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: assemble like a crew of Corvid's and say, you know, 163 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: we have to attack it dawn when the monster is 164 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: vulnerable because it owns the night. And given their intergenerational learning, 165 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: given their great intelligence, given their communicative ability. The coolest 166 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: thing about this, at least to me, is this means 167 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: that's somewhere out there right now, there's like a crow 168 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: version of van Helsing and it's hunting, uh, you know, 169 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: like it's hunting a great horned owl dracula that is 170 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: just out to kill crows. Yeah, man, okay, I would 171 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: I would read that comic. Uh. One of the most 172 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: interesting things here when you're talking about the Corvid response 173 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: to the owl threat, is that mobbing behavior. I guess 174 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: they're on that same Cape and Islands article you were 175 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: mentioning there been. It's speaking about how this person who's 176 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: writing at the author has seen a barn owl that 177 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: got flushed out, uh, just from where it would normally 178 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: be staying in daylight hours and like a vampire caught 179 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,559 Speaker 1: out in the daylight. Not not like that, because he 180 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: would just dissolve into ash. But some Corvid's saw it 181 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: and they did the mobbing thing and they ended up 182 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: they like, they essentially attacked it until it had to 183 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 1: or it had to escape, and it jumped over a 184 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: cliff I guess, and went down into the water into 185 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: the ocean, rather than being able to fly or anything. 186 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: Just really kind of sad for the owl would like 187 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,119 Speaker 1: rather than be taken alive by the gang of Corvid's 188 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: that were after it. Well, I don't know, I guess. 189 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just an attempt to escape, I suppose, 190 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: but they drove it into the sea. Yeah, that is 191 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: cold blooded. You guys remember that movie The Secret of 192 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: nim that really dark cartoon movie from the late eighties. 193 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: I guess. There was Jeremy the Crow, who was kind 194 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: of a goofy, fun character. But then there was the 195 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: Great Owl, which if I've ever seen a depiction of 196 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: an owl in vampire kind of like tones, that's it. 197 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: That is one of the creepiest. It wasn't even a villain. 198 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: It actually ended up giving some good info. But I 199 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: believe Jeremy refused to go and for because of the 200 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: fear bias against the owls. I may be making that up. 201 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: That would be cool if they did think about that 202 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: biology in the character development. So it's one thing it's 203 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: amazing here is the more we learn about intelligence, the 204 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: more we learn that it is nowhere near unique to humans. 205 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: And even like, think about how familiar these animals are. 206 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: Everybody listening to today's show has probably seen her crow 207 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: right there, ubiquitous in many parts of the world, but 208 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: their intelligence itself is still so alien, not as alien 209 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: as that of an octopus. But I feel like the 210 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: more we learn about these things, the more we're going 211 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: to learn about their cognitive abilities. They hunt serial killers. 212 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: I mean to them, these owls are serial killers if 213 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,599 Speaker 1: you think about it. So that's this is just h 214 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: kind of a hobby horse. I you probably remember back 215 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: in the Buckhead days, there were a couple of crows 216 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: in the nearby Buckhead mall and I try to go 217 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: talk to them in the parking lot. Uh, they didn't care. 218 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: By the way, it's I want to murder of crows 219 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: that I can befriend, and I know people have done it. 220 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: I just I don't know. Man, City crows are stuck up. 221 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: You communed with the crow both at the old Buckheat office, 222 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: like you're saying. And also I think one trip to 223 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: l A, I I saw you out on the porch, 224 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: uh talking to a corvette or at least you know, 225 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: in engaging with it in some way. I've all, you've 226 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: always been fascinated by these creatures. But you're so smart 227 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: just to put this out there for a little bit 228 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: of context for everybody. Um, the one that we called Ben, 229 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: the one that goes by Ben, he back in that 230 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: day run that time when we were in that office, 231 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: Ben had a specific outfit that he would wear. And 232 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: I noticed this Ben, you didn't wasn't lost on me. 233 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: There was a specific outfit that was very crow like. 234 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 1: Then I would sometimes see you where when I would 235 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: happened to glance you venturing out to speak with the corvids. 236 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: I saw what you were doing. He got me because 237 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: like we could, the four of us now, Doc, you, Matt, 238 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, and myself, we could go out and if 239 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: we if we treated or a population of crows very well, 240 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: and we came back and we were wearing the same clothes, 241 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: we didn't make a bunch of changes to our facial 242 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: hair or our our haircuts, then the crows would remember 243 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: and then they would start giving us weird crow stuff. 244 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: Like we talked about this earlier today. We actually they'll 245 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: they'll give you what they think of as human stuff. 246 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: But if you wrong them, their children will remember. Do 247 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: you think they tell their buddies about you? And then hey, 248 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: this guy's okay. And then the next thing, you know, 249 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: like the corvids, like nesting in telephone poles as you're 250 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: taking your walk down the street, you know, like waiting 251 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: on you to do their bidding. I want to see 252 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: you like night kings styal raise your arms up and 253 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: then like more of it's just come flocking towards you, 254 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: and like a cloud of black you know, crows surrounding Ben. 255 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: I want to I mean, it's terrifying. I'm not gonna lie, 256 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: but I would. I would never make you sit through that. Man. 257 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm actually your friends, So I appreciate that. But this, uh, 258 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: I would get popcorn if that happened. Yeah, still love popcorn. 259 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: Come for you would come, They would come for your 260 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: They would come, they come for your corn. I would 261 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: offer it as a sacrifice to croking. You can. The 262 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: last thing about pro intelligence and cooperation in the wild 263 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: is um Yeah, it goes even further than we think. 264 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: We don't know the full extent. If you are a 265 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: hunter and crows are as you guys have familiar with you. 266 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: You've been in these woods before and you've left some 267 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: kind of offering to them while you're hunting. They will 268 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: help you find animals to hunt, like. They will fly 269 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: up and they're not trained to do this. They'll teach themselves. 270 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: They'll point out the deer or the elk or what 271 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: have you to the hunter. And they do it because 272 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: they know that when the hunter kills that animal, it'll 273 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 1: leave something for them. It's very very strange. Um. Anyway, 274 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: let us know your corvid adventures. Uh, please do not 275 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: wrong them, and please remember they are wild animals. They're 276 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: just very very intelligent. We don't know how smart they 277 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 1: are yet, but this God, I can't wait. I hope 278 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: somebody has a pet crow. Well you said the word familiar, 279 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: you know, and it made me think of like, you know, 280 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: you see crows often as uh which or warlock familiar 281 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: is it's the term they use and I think that's 282 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: really appropriate. Did anybody a Harry Potter universe have a crow? 283 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: As I know Harry had a freaking owl. Weird but 284 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: it was a cute owls fluffy and it didn't look 285 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: like a demon or anything. But surely they were crow 286 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: familiars in the Potter verse. Yeah, I feel like you 287 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 1: can't write a fantasy of that sort and not have 288 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: a crew or maybe a raven or something. Yeah, ravens 289 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: are a little spookier. Well, I don't know, it's up 290 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 1: for debate. They're bigger, but yep, that's right. And you 291 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: see him in California a lot like because and they 292 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: look like almost like little hawks or something that they're 293 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: just pitch black and very very ominous creatures. You guys 294 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: know where I stand on this. I love this for you, Ben. 295 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you've got some corvid related uh 296 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: science news to brighten your day. And and thanks for sharing. 297 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, man, this is this is great, Ben. 298 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: I just uh, I want to take it back to 299 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: that study just quickly. Um. I'm just having a little 300 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 1: bit of trouble understanding it fully, and it has nothing 301 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: to do with the way you explained it. I think 302 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: it's just the way the articles refer to a lot 303 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: of the things, because I know there's several things happening. 304 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,199 Speaker 1: The stimulus occurs to where the crows either see a 305 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: faint light or not. Then the crow has to decide 306 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: which of the two buttons it has to hit. When 307 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: I don't understand is when the rules get changed by 308 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, the observers, the scientists, because it seems like 309 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: the the big thing here is that the rules get 310 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: changed after the stimulus comes in. Then the crow has 311 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 1: to decide which one to hit depending on that new rule. 312 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yeah? That seems to be about the 313 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: size of it. The important thing there is that they're 314 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: exhibiting the ability to adapt their behavior. So they're not 315 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: learning a route process. They're not learning something all like 316 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: always hit blue, always get treat. What they're learning is, uh, 317 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: sometimes I have to switch the rules up to get 318 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: the results I want because the communication of these weird 319 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: human scientists is changing. Is it because there dicks? I 320 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: guess so. But they run the treats game, so I'll 321 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: play ball. And then the big the big thing there 322 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: is that they're thinking about They're like jumping thoughts essentially, 323 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: rather than just a to B. It's more about what's 324 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: going on behind the scenes. And I mean they don't 325 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: know maybe they don't know that there's a science experiment 326 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: being run on them, but they understand that it's more 327 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: than just like object, you know, impermanence that children have, 328 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: you know where It's like they can actually think bigger. 329 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: They can think about the framework of the scenario. They 330 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: find themselves in um and and essence, see the experiment 331 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: for what it is, as opposed to just behaving like 332 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: a less intelligent creature that would do like you said, 333 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: then red red light equals treat and then no light, 334 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: no whatever. You know what I mean, I don't know, Like, 335 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: I think that's a really good explanation. You're you're on 336 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: the money there, because the I think we should move 337 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: on on this before we end up accidentally making an 338 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: entire crow podcast. But the big takeaway is that before 339 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: this month that would have been considered physically impossible, crows 340 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: do not have the equipment that we have laid out. 341 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 1: In the same way, crows do not have a um 342 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: the cerebral cortex. They they have something called a pallium 343 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: and that's kind of doing the heavy lifting the cerebral 344 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: cortex would do. So. Yet again, the big thing that 345 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 1: makes this important for other studies of non human intelligence, 346 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: and perhaps that of alien life in the future is 347 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: that we're learning our brains set up, our brains load out, 348 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: or whatever is just is probably just one of many 349 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: many options. We don't know what else is out there, 350 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: but we do know the world is still the world. 351 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: It's luckily still has UH, still has wild animals, and 352 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: the problem is due to COVID in at least one case, 353 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: we might have far fewer UH in the ocean very soon. 354 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: M M. That's right, And we'll get to that story 355 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: after a quick sponsor break and we're back. Okay, So 356 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: we lead with with bend Corvid story. I keep wanting 357 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: to say COVID that that's not what that is at all, 358 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: but it's obviously top of mind for a lot of people. 359 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: And we have a COVID related story that also involves 360 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: animals and the idea of scarcity UM, specifically in the 361 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: shark community. And you guys, I didn't know this at all, 362 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: but it turns out that there's a substance in sharks 363 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: livers UH called squaling. Squaling I'm gonna go with squaling 364 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: um that is used to essentially make vaccines and different 365 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: medications somehow more effective. UM. I'm not a scientist, I 366 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: couldn't tell you exactly how that works, but it apparently does, 367 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 1: and it's something that is used in medications the world over. 368 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: But let's think about an event like what we're dealing 369 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: with as far as COVID is concerned, where if we 370 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: get a vaccine, it's gonna be something millions and millions 371 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: of people want. Are at the very least, we're going 372 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: to need to make enough doses so every one can 373 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: have one if they want it, right, Like I know, 374 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: we've aside from many you know, COVID truthers or folks 375 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: that don't believe it's real, or folks that are anti 376 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: vaccination or what have you, I think it'll probably be 377 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: hopefully a drop in the bucket, you know, compared to 378 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: how many people will be running out their door to 379 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: get that vaccine as soon as they possibly can. And 380 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: according to a post from a shark advocacy group um 381 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: called Shark Allies, they believe that around two hundred and 382 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 1: fifty thousand sharks will need to be slaughtered for that sweet, 383 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: sweet squally squealing in their livers. And that is only 384 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: if each person on the planet wants one dose or 385 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: needs one dose. There are some potential situations where folks 386 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: might need to So in that case, I would double 387 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 1: the number to half a million sharks um for the 388 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: slaughter in order to make these vaccines. Um. And you know, 389 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: this Shark advocacy group actually published a petition on change 390 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: dot org where they talk about how using sharks for 391 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:18,879 Speaker 1: this COVID nineteen vaccination is shortsighted. It's gonna cause a 392 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: big problem balancing out, you know, the ecosystems of the 393 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: oceans the world over, and it could have unpredictable outcomes. Um. 394 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: It's something I hadn't really considered. You know. We think 395 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: I think of like a vaccine being something entirely generated 396 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: in a lab without needing any raw materials. There's just 397 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: science is magic. He just put together some you know, 398 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: droppers and make the thing with a little piece of 399 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 1: the virus, and that's all. That's all you gotta do. 400 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: But obviously, as we know, based on the fact that 401 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: you can't just make a vaccine for the thing instantly, 402 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: there's a lot of research and development and trial and 403 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: error and all of this stuff that goes into and 404 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: apparently sharks are part of the equation. Yeah. Yeah, I 405 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: was reading about falling because I I I've never heard 406 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: of this to be completely transparent. Yeah, it looks like 407 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: our human livers produce it too, but we're not quite 408 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: at the point as a species yet where we say 409 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: slaughter x amount of people to give why amount of 410 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: people of vaccine. It looks like it works by enhancing 411 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: the immune response, So it kind of ups the octane 412 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: or the efficacy of a vaccine because because you're going 413 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: to get more, your body is going to respond to 414 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: it more and you're going to create more. What is 415 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:38,479 Speaker 1: the anti um antibodies? Antibodies? Is that the idea? I 416 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: think so. Um. Again, I haven't delved deep into the science, 417 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: but everything that I've read, and this is a very 418 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: new story. The petition, by the way, has I think 419 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: something in the neighborhood of fifteen thousand signatures, but it 420 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: just got posted today, um, and that today being Monday, September. 421 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: So this is relatively new and developing story at least 422 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: in terms of the the outcry. And this is obviously 423 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: something people in shark circles would be more intimately familiar 424 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: with in their whole issue is that we've never had 425 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: the quote they refer to it as supply chain tested 426 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: in this way at this scale, and it's something that 427 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, on regular on a regular day, maybe there's 428 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: you know, some impact to the shark communities. But sharks 429 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: are also you know, so many species of them are 430 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: on the decline, and there's obviously a finite number of 431 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: them in the wild. Um, and this is something that 432 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: could potentially have, according to this group, have critical effects 433 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,479 Speaker 1: on sustaining them as a species. You know, it's one 434 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: of these things too where if you're talking to the 435 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: politician or maybe even the scientists, Um, what's a few 436 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: sharks if it means saving mankind? You know, at the 437 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 1: end of the day, if we eliminate all sharks in 438 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: in an effort to save humanity, is that a worthwhile balance? 439 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: Shark people might say no, or at the very least 440 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: safe figure out a better way. But I don't know, 441 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 1: It's it's a it's an interesting conversation for sure, Yeah, 442 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: because there's um from what I understand, sharks are not 443 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: the only source of this. They're just the cheapest and 444 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: easiest source we can get squaling from olive oil or 445 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: olives rather and it just it costs more and it 446 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: also takes I think like seventy hours to make it 447 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: as opposed to ten. But you know, your point, Noll 448 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: is the same as something we've seen come up in 449 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 1: arguments about conservation, where someone says, look, are we going 450 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: to prevent the progress of mankind into this uh sensitive 451 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: Martian environment because of tree frogs? Are we gonna say 452 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: that we're putting tree frogs over the livelihood of human beings. 453 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: We'll have other people who say, look, there are almost 454 00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,479 Speaker 1: eight billion human beings on the planet. They're like a 455 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: few hundred thousands of you know, insert species here. It 456 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 1: is a difficult argument, but it's also it's also strange 457 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: because there is an alternative. It's just someone would have 458 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,959 Speaker 1: to pay more. So I think it's misleading to say 459 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: it's humans or sharks, you know, other than the time. Absolutely, 460 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 1: and it's interesting too. I mean, already three apparently three 461 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: million sharks are killed each year for the substance, and 462 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: they're even hunted for it. Um predators that are you know, 463 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: deep sea dwellers um have more of this compound or 464 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: this liver oil, I guess. And it's because it helps 465 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: them float, and as we know about sharks, they have 466 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: to keep moving. That's obviously important. Interesting how this this. 467 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: You know, certain species adapt to have more of a 468 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: particular chemical in their bodies, you know, to help make 469 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: sure they are able to do the things that they 470 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: are best suited for. I'm literally describing evolution and adaptation, 471 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: but as it always blows my mind when you see 472 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: it in practice, uh in in the real world, in 473 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 1: the wild like this for sure. I'm just looking about 474 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: where squaling is being used all over the place, and 475 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: it looks like, at least according to ducda Go, that 476 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: there is squaling in all kinds of skin and hair 477 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: products all over the place. One of the more popular 478 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: ones I'm looking at, and this is not an ad, 479 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: is a plant drived one that is coming up everywhere. 480 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: I won't name it, but it's like it's the olive 481 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: oil or other plant based squaling. And it seems like 482 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: if we can make that much where there's that much 483 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: of a supply of it for all of these products, 484 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: maybe some of these companies could step up and say, well, hey, 485 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: if we need um, if we need extra squaling, we've 486 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: got a version of it here that Yeah, that's a 487 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: great idea. We'll see if what happens. Yeah, I'm not 488 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: gonna hold my breath and it keep swimming because if 489 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: I stop swimming, I will die. I'm not gonna hold 490 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: your shark for that one, right. Yeah, it's like three 491 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: thousand sharks to make one ton of this substance. I mean. Also, 492 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: the shark population, the maritime population of most animals is 493 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: as we alluded to earlier, collapsing, you know what I mean. 494 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: It's not as if it's going to be easy for 495 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: these sharks to come back after a coal of something 496 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: like this, of of this magnitude. And you know, there 497 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: are people will say, well, screw sharks, I don't like them, 498 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: But that's what does shark ever do for me? Right? 499 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: But that's not a valid argument. And sharks already get 500 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: such a terrible time in the human press because shark 501 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: attacks are pretty infrequent. Sharks are not usually out to 502 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: eat you. When they bite people, as a matter of fact, 503 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: it's it can be fatal. It's very dangerous. They are. 504 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: They are just like evolved killing to basically. But but 505 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: what they're doing when they bite people, they're doing a 506 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: taste test. It's rare for them to fight someone and 507 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: keep biting. They think we taste gross, and they're probably right. 508 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: It's that Damn Steven Spielberg. You know, if it wasn't 509 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: for him, sharks would be up there with puppies and kittens. 510 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: Maybe not, but I think the problem is when they do, 511 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: even if it's a taste test, take a little bite. Uh, 512 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: it's terrifying. Let's see you lose an arm or a 513 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: hand at the very least. I always always laugh when 514 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: I've been like, have you guys been closed to a 515 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: shark in the wild. No, we've definitely seen one of 516 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: aquariums and stuff right there. They're terrified that I was 517 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: in a boat and I was still you know, I 518 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: still have the Jaws music playing in the background in 519 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: my head. I could easily see someone thinking the ocean 520 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 1: would be better without them. Although I do think it's shortsighted. 521 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: I understand the immediacy when you're in the moment, but 522 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: it makes me, it makes you wonder, um, how ridiculous 523 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: it is when you see those uh survival videos where 524 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: there's how to insert here and they're like, oh, you're 525 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: getting an attacked by a shark. Just remember to pop 526 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: it on the nose. That's all you need to do. 527 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: Just give it a bop. Yeah, Well, we'll be you know, 528 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: we think about this too in terms of hunting seasons, 529 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: right like, Uh, you know, it's important to maintain the 530 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: balance of predators and and pray and you know, black bears, 531 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: for example, are certain species that aren't allowed to be 532 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: hunted or what have you. There's usually a reason because 533 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: it's about conservation, not only about the species themselves, but 534 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: about maintaining that balance, you know, in the wild. And 535 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure if sharks didn't need to be around, they 536 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: would have died out by now. I mean again, I'm 537 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: not a scientist, but that seems to be what happens 538 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: with creatures that don't make an impact in the ecosystem 539 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: or or have some reason for existing. The oldest living 540 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: animal right now is a shark. It's a greenland shark. 541 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: The poor guy looks the worse for wear, but he 542 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: is uh. He was estimated to be around uh three. 543 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: The two oldest were estimated to be around three hundred 544 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: thirty five and three d ninety two years old. Uh. 545 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: We are very small in the scheme of things. But 546 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: if you look at the picture of the green greenland shark, 547 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: it's just I I don't know the biological sex of 548 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: this creature, but it's like the it's front teeth are missing, 549 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: it's got all these scars. Uh, it's not five twelve 550 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: years old, as was falsely reported. Well, but speaking of 551 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: like the oldest animals are, you know, sharks in general, 552 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: I've been around since the Carboniferous period, which was around 553 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: three hundred and fifty nine million years ago, and it's 554 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 1: actually known as the Golden Age of sharks because there 555 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: was an extinction event that killed off a massive amount 556 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: of underwater species and different lineages of fish. There's a 557 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: great article in National History Museums uh the UK and 558 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: National History Museum website about us about the Golden Age 559 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: of sharks. And this allowed sharks to flourish and kind 560 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: of dominate and um evolve more quickly. I guess there. 561 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: It sort of gave rise to a lot of different 562 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: varieties of sharks because they were able to flourish. So 563 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,919 Speaker 1: it's a long time for a thing to be around. Yeah, 564 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,719 Speaker 1: I'm looking at here. There is a five seven year 565 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 1: old clam apparently called ming. Yeah, it's an invertebrate. I 566 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 1: just wanted to get up again in started that. I'm 567 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: glad you mentioned that, Matt, because we always get letters 568 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: where we talk about the oldest living thing, no matter 569 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: how a caveat it. Let's call this the oldest living 570 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,919 Speaker 1: large vertebrate marine creature. People are going to point out 571 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 1: the functionally immortal hydra right or to atopsis as well, 572 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: and then I'm sure we'll get a letter about the 573 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: quaking aspen and so on, and the tar degrades and 574 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: the tar degrades grades. There are a lot of uh, 575 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,040 Speaker 1: there's so many caveats with this. But thanks for in 576 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: this up, Noll, because I had never I was not 577 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: aware of the critical role that deep sea sharks we 578 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: should say it's specifically deep sea sharks, right. I wasn't 579 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: were the critical role they played in the world of vaccines, 580 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: and I guess in the world of cosmetics too. I 581 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: feel like a bad person everybody out there who's thinking, Hey, 582 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,319 Speaker 1: you guys want us to get the vaccines for this thing. 583 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 1: I we know how many how many rumors and theories 584 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: are rolling around out there about a potential vaccine. Um 585 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: we've been doing reading on it, where we've been thinking 586 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: on it. UM just a signal that we're paying attention 587 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: and we're trying to get the best information we can 588 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: possibly get before we bring anything to you. Um, but yeah, 589 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: we're we're aware. Yeah, it's it's it's a it's says 590 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, especially especially when you hear stories 591 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: about the idea of forcing one through or rushing it, 592 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,399 Speaker 1: you know that that whole thing. It really freaks me out. 593 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: The idea of maybe somehow jettison ng other you know, 594 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: f D A type safe. I don't know that they 595 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: would be able to do that, but what does that 596 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 1: mean to you? Guys? When you hear the idea of 597 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,840 Speaker 1: like certain reports say I will have one by the 598 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: end of the year, and then another scientists saying like whoa, whoa, whoa, No, 599 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: and that's gonna be That's that's very optimistic scist. Agree, agreed. 600 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, isn't it the 601 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: government or the administration that if it's like a political 602 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,880 Speaker 1: boon to try to force something through, wouldn't that be 603 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: a thing that could potentially make happen? I wonder. The 604 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 1: scary thing for me is when you've got medical professionals 605 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: on some kind of platform saying things that don't appear 606 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: to match up with the science that we're researching. That 607 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: Let's say I'm researching um, but there are there are 608 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: a medical professional and they have a lot of experience 609 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: in the field, and it's that thing where your brain says, well, 610 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 1: I should trust them. They're a doctor and they deal 611 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: with vaccines all the time. But it's not squaring with 612 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: what I'm reading from the CDC or the w h O. 613 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: So then do we trust those organizations? And it just 614 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: becomes well, I guess I'm just trying to signals it. 615 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,040 Speaker 1: There's a lot of complexity out there and we're trying 616 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: to wade through a lot of that. As many of 617 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: you have been signaling to us in your writings to us, UM, 618 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: I want to point out for anyone who's looking for 619 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: something UM pretty good to watch. It's a great idea. 620 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: There's a fictional show called Utopia that came out on 621 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,399 Speaker 1: Amazon recently that deals with it. Without spoiling too much. 622 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: The deals with the conspiracy to spread something via desperately 623 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: needed vaccine. And I don't know if the producers planned 624 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: it to publish when it did, but it was. It 625 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: was good timing, which almost makes up for some of 626 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: my problems with the writing. I'm sorry this is a 627 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: fiction show over I misheard you. I thought it was 628 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: a documentary. Second, Okay, got it, got it. But that's 629 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory that's been around forever that somehow a 630 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: vaccination where the vaccinations are a way to do something 631 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: terrible to humanity as a whole, right, right, And there 632 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: have been cases where there's pretty compelling evidence that, at 633 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: least in ice lead cases, there was some truth to 634 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: some of this. You know, um often it must be 635 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: said via incompetence or um pursuing profit over people's lives. 636 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: But I do want to say, while we're on the 637 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: subject of vaccines, Uh, President Vladimir Putin has said that 638 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 1: he's going to take the spot NICK five covid vat 639 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: coronavirus vaccine. He just hasn't said win. So a lot 640 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: of people would be listening if they support that government 641 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 1: or that regime, they're listening to us and they're like, 642 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: you guys are being dunderheads. The vaccine is already here, 643 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,399 Speaker 1: they just won't let us have it. Do you think 644 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: he'll do it like that one guy we talked about 645 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: who died in a float tank who like vaccinated himself 646 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: on a Facebook live stream. Forget the guy's name, but 647 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: there was like foul play potentially and he had like 648 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,960 Speaker 1: drugs in the system, but he he was all into 649 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: like these hacks and doing like untested you know, medications. 650 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was for. It was maybe 651 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: for herpes. He gave himself like what purported to be 652 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: a cure for herpes, and he did it live on 653 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: a Facebook stream, and then he turned up dead. I 654 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,919 Speaker 1: wonder if Putin will put his money where his mouth 655 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 1: is and and get shot up with this magical Russian 656 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: vaccine so we can all see it. I would watch, 657 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: I would watch. I would watch it, but I highly 658 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: doubt that. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's tough. It's 659 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 1: tough to guess because that's one of the most well 660 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: protected people alive today. So I would say, if it's 661 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,840 Speaker 1: not just propaganda, and if if Putin does in fact 662 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: take the vaccine, it will be after several other people 663 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: have taken it and survived, you know what I mean. 664 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: He's clearly fond of Facebook. So we'll see, We'll see 665 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: what happens. I I think I just want to reach 666 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,240 Speaker 1: out across the video screen and the microphone to everybody listening, 667 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,320 Speaker 1: just to say, you know, this is a really scary time. 668 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: No matter what you believe. And I just got back 669 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: from a trip where the overall consensus in the small 670 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: town that I was in appeared to be, at least 671 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: according to the signs that were on a lot of 672 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: the small businesses, that coronavirus was a scam with it, 673 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: that it was fake, it was a ruse, and we're 674 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: all being played and this is a lose a larger 675 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: number of people living in this small town that I 676 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 1: had to visit. And I just wonder how many people 677 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: out there listening have that viewpoint? And and if you do, why, 678 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,240 Speaker 1: Like what what are you reading that I'm not reading? 679 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,279 Speaker 1: Or like the what what? Um? What feels credible to you? 680 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,800 Speaker 1: That maybe I'm just missing or in my bubble about 681 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 1: I just want to I would love to hear from 682 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: somebody out there who feels that way, that has a 683 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: good explanation for why they believe it. Yeah, well said man. 684 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: I've been receiving some correspondence from folks. Always grateful to 685 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: hear from you, uh in in this regard, But yeah, 686 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: i'd I'd also love to hear, um what what you 687 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: feel has informed your choices in this regard? We did, 688 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: we did have some episodes that probably still tangentially apply 689 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: to the current question. Now. Uh, but you know we're 690 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: not We're not here to attack people, but we are 691 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,720 Speaker 1: here to learn from you, which is the most important 692 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: thing we can do in times like these. But okay, 693 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: so there we go. End of sharks. Maybe under the 694 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:43,040 Speaker 1: species crows and owls are in a genocidal war with 695 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: one another. I don't know about you all, but this 696 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:49,239 Speaker 1: feels like a great time for dose of something a 697 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: little more optimistic. What are you talking It just sounds 698 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: like a time to escape the whole planet. All right, 699 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: Well six and one end, I would say, So we'll 700 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 1: tell you what we're talking about. A little bit of 701 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: a red tinge light at the end of the tunnel 702 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: after a word from our sponsor. Not a crow light, 703 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:20,479 Speaker 1: it's a it's a different reference. And we're back. Yes, 704 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: that's right. Things may seem like they're going really bad 705 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: down here on Earth. Um, we've talked about it before. 706 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,360 Speaker 1: This is the only planet we've got thus far. But 707 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: we are looking at other potential destinations and other places 708 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: we can make feel like home at least, and in 709 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: that pursuit, in the next few decades, several countries and 710 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: international organizations are looking to travel to the Moon again. Surprise, surprise, 711 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: first Moon. Yeah. Uh. There's also some fun controversy about 712 00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: and I used that word so sarcastic, we uh, controversy 713 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: about China and there their desire to build an international 714 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,919 Speaker 1: space station of their own outside of the International Space Station. Yea, 715 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,280 Speaker 1: the Ghostbusters and the real Ghostbusters or the National Championships 716 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: in the World Championships, it's very much like that, uh, 717 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: to see who will control space all of it apparently, 718 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,759 Speaker 1: or just near Earth orbit um. But again in the 719 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: Moon of course that we mentioned. And then the you know, 720 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: the third one is Mars. That's one of the big destinations. 721 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: Once we are going to shoot some people off towards 722 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: Mars at least and hopefully it's going to be successful 723 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:47,799 Speaker 1: and they'll land, and once they're there, they're gonna need 724 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: to have enough stuff to build things so that they 725 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,239 Speaker 1: can actually survive there. And you can't take We've talked 726 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: about it with Marshall Brain on an episode. You can't 727 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: just loads so much cargo up into a ship that 728 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 1: is going to get you to Mars because of you know, 729 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: problems with propulsion and all these other things. There's a 730 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: there's a multitude of reasons here that you need to 731 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: be able to build things once you get to a destination, 732 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,160 Speaker 1: and you need to be able to use it, use 733 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 1: materials that you either find there or combine materials that 734 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: you find at your destination with something you've brought right, Yes, 735 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: So this all comes back to an article in Wired 736 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,560 Speaker 1: that was put out fairly recently here on the September, 737 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:41,880 Speaker 1: and it is speaking about well, it's ah the concept 738 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: of using kitan, which is something we're gonna explain it 739 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 1: in a second. Using kitan to build habitats, to create tools, 740 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: and hopefully some really sick armor for all the people 741 00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: who will be traveling to Mars. Yeah on the phom 742 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,520 Speaker 1: er um. Yeah, well we'll get into that. We'll get 743 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,719 Speaker 1: into a second. So kitan what is kitan? Before we 744 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:15,120 Speaker 1: just do any other learning here? Biology wise, uh describes 745 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:22,600 Speaker 1: kayton as a naturally occurring by bio polymer um and 746 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,760 Speaker 1: it is found in many, many, many creatures on Earth. 747 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,759 Speaker 1: If you think about a beatle, you've probably seen a 748 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: beatle before or touched one, maybe as a kid, or 749 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,720 Speaker 1: let one crawl on you, or maybe yesterday as an adult. 750 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: My favorite is Paul. Oh, Paul, yeah, oh, very much. Okay, 751 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,359 Speaker 1: I don't know how much kitan Paul's got going on, 752 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: but you know, let us know if you have other information. 753 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: But a beat the beat Paul McCartney, it was, yeah, 754 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, I get it, I get it, I get it. 755 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: But a beatle, no whether how large or small, has 756 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,440 Speaker 1: an outer shell that is very very strong here to 757 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: the very soft insides of that beetle, and that outside 758 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:11,680 Speaker 1: is made I'm sorry. Oh yeah, that's a whole other thing. 759 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to get to you you with this um. 760 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,839 Speaker 1: But that beetles very has that outer shell, right, It's 761 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: like a carapace that it has around it. That stuff 762 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: is kitan and a couple other things combined together to 763 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: create that hardened that hardened shell. The concept here is 764 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: to use that mix it with that stuff that's in 765 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: like a beetle shell and a bunch of other animal shells, 766 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: with the dirt and other stuff you're gonna find on Mars, 767 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: just the soil. That's not soil, it's just the stony. 768 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:42,879 Speaker 1: I don't know all the all the chemicals and substances 769 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: that make up the surface of Mars. Put those things 770 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: together and you essentially have a brick of some sort 771 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: that you can use or a m a three D 772 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:55,800 Speaker 1: printing substance that you can make a whole little village 773 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 1: out of. Basically to protect yourself. I mean, that would 774 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 1: be incredible if you could do it. But Matt, wait 775 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,080 Speaker 1: a minute, this isn't another sad animal story. Is It 776 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,399 Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're gonna have to grind up like all 777 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,280 Speaker 1: the Beatles on planet Earth to to make space bricks, 778 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: does it? No? But kind of in a way in 779 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: a smaller scale. By the way, this is all a 780 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,880 Speaker 1: proposal that was published in Plos one. It's titled Martian 781 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:26,840 Speaker 1: bioleth bio Inspired Regular Composite for Closed Loop Extraterrestrial Manufacturing 782 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: WHO And in that per reviewed article from Plos one, 783 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: they describe essentially away to have the food source on 784 00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:39,720 Speaker 1: one of these missions that's going out to let's say Mars, 785 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: be primarily plants that are created there or grown on 786 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,560 Speaker 1: you know when once they land and as well as 787 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:54,240 Speaker 1: as they're traveling, and proteins that are based on insects. Right, 788 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 1: So the insects that would be eaten essentially, or at 789 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,800 Speaker 1: least would would proteins extracted from them, would have leftover 790 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,440 Speaker 1: carapaces which aren't really good for human consumption anyway. They 791 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: don't do much for you. The kitan that's inside those carapaces, 792 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,880 Speaker 1: there's some there's some small medical benefits that we can 793 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,279 Speaker 1: talk about, but really, if you wanted to, you could 794 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,560 Speaker 1: essentially separate the protein rich stuff from the insects and 795 00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,319 Speaker 1: the kitan, and you take that kitan then after eating 796 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:33,200 Speaker 1: all those delicious insects and then which aren't bad construction. Yeah, 797 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,800 Speaker 1: I'm not yucking yums. That's that's great. He's kind of 798 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 1: season them properly. It's kind of season them properly. You 799 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,360 Speaker 1: can fry anything. And the United Nations has wanted people 800 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: to avoid mass starvation by eating insects on Earth like 801 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,919 Speaker 1: a decade. So it's it's true. It's not a crazy idea. 802 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: And Martians will probably have to do it. Yeah, yeah, 803 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,800 Speaker 1: they will, and it's a smart thing to do because again, 804 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,840 Speaker 1: what you're doing is giving yourself a thing that can create. 805 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:06,600 Speaker 1: They can create uh, any structures, any thing to the 806 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 1: within this article. They actually did some experiments where they 807 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: were able to create tools out of this kitan substance 808 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: um and they used they didn't they didn't have any 809 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 1: access to Martian You know, regular e thor rocks and 810 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: things like that, but they were able to use mineral 811 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: equivalence of what that would be. They combined the kitan 812 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 1: with that and they could make like, um, essentially a hatchet, uh, 813 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,080 Speaker 1: a wrench. They're all these things that they conceptualized being 814 00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,160 Speaker 1: able to make, and then they actually made a wrench 815 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: that they could turn and fix things. Matt, aren't you 816 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,719 Speaker 1: burying the lead here a little bit? But don't they 817 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:49,000 Speaker 1: also wouldn't they be able to use their urine uh 818 00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 1: and and extract some material in their urine kind of 819 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,160 Speaker 1: make the bonding agent? Does that deal? Yeah? So so 820 00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:59,879 Speaker 1: there are several parts, but some of the main ones 821 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 1: are Martian stuff, kitan and urea from from people's pet 822 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,319 Speaker 1: great stuff. And you'd live in the whatever structure you 823 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 1: built out of that. I built this house from my 824 00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,880 Speaker 1: own rusty Martian P and I will not be I 825 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:23,480 Speaker 1: will not be disrespected by you. Kid. This is a 826 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:28,720 Speaker 1: parent talcular Martian. Kid. You gotta be a P constructor 827 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:34,040 Speaker 1: like your father and your Space father before him. Uh. 828 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 1: It makes me think of like the Dousers from Fraggle 829 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,120 Speaker 1: Rock or something. Or also it makes me think of 830 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,719 Speaker 1: like is the moon gonna just look like Minecraft, Like 831 00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 1: is everything gonna be like, you know, geometrically shaped or 832 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,759 Speaker 1: like made of these bricks. But no, no, no, yeah, 833 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,280 Speaker 1: please go on about the how you can shape this stuff. 834 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,399 Speaker 1: That's that's fascinating to me. Well. Yeah, in the three 835 00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 1: D printing stage of this, in the testing that was 836 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:02,400 Speaker 1: publishing this article, they made these kind of cone shaped structures, 837 00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 1: or at least models of these cone shaped structures that 838 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,360 Speaker 1: they're proposing could be the dwelling places in larger buildings 839 00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:16,520 Speaker 1: on Mars. It looks like maybe something an ant constructed 840 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:21,120 Speaker 1: or an insect constructed, um, just just because it looks 841 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: to be built out of the soil itself or the 842 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,000 Speaker 1: ground itself, and it just becomes a shape that is hardened. Right, 843 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 1: And just looking through this article and seeing all the 844 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,600 Speaker 1: proposals here, it makes me feel like we humans are 845 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: going to arrive on Mars and other places if we 846 00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:43,759 Speaker 1: do these things and create essentially xenomorph hives. If you 847 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:49,160 Speaker 1: guys remember the Aliens series, like essentially taking what exists 848 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 1: on that planet and then they this is a completely 849 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 1: fictional thing, but they would use their acidic saliva to 850 00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: bond essentially or to break down substances that existed and 851 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:08,799 Speaker 1: then formed the hive. That's that's the height of the 852 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,480 Speaker 1: height of technology that we're discovering now, and in the 853 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: applied material science field, a lot of it is us 854 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,840 Speaker 1: learning to mimic things that other animals have been doing 855 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: or natural processes that occurred. Like if you're too good 856 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,800 Speaker 1: for space, Urine, I'm gonna say you don't belong on Mars. 857 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,360 Speaker 1: Other people want to take the trip, like what's interesting 858 00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,520 Speaker 1: to me here to matt is one thing I wish 859 00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,359 Speaker 1: the study you talked about a little bit more. I 860 00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: wish they had talked about, um, the the Martian elephant 861 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,640 Speaker 1: in the room, which is that this is a one 862 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,960 Speaker 1: way trip for a lot of people, no matter how 863 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: they describe it. The most feasible way for this kind 864 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,160 Speaker 1: of exploration to work is for the ships themselves to 865 00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:58,160 Speaker 1: be dismantled upon landing and become you know, kind of 866 00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,600 Speaker 1: the bedrock there. So you could keep three D printing machines, 867 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,120 Speaker 1: you would keep uh, the life support systems you needed, 868 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,200 Speaker 1: but then you would ultimately yeah, I mean maybe I'm 869 00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,719 Speaker 1: wrong here, but you would ultimately end up disassembling a 870 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,920 Speaker 1: lot of that stuff. Does it take to get to Mars. 871 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: I think it's it's like maybe margin of error to 872 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,320 Speaker 1: two years round trip, because it's a nine month travel 873 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,799 Speaker 1: time depending on your speed obviously, and then you know 874 00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: you're not stopping to pee because you've got to save 875 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,799 Speaker 1: that from Mars. Actually, they're probably cycling urine doing that 876 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: trip to make puotable water like in water World. Yeah, 877 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,520 Speaker 1: I feel like we we're focusing too much on the 878 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:47,319 Speaker 1: urine part here. Yeah, but again, like we would be 879 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,919 Speaker 1: doing the same thing on on the Moon. I guess 880 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,719 Speaker 1: historically we've always had images of moon bases that are 881 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,839 Speaker 1: so technologically advanced, that are just full of metal and 882 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:04,120 Speaker 1: beeping sounds and new lights and things like shuttles that 883 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,719 Speaker 1: go up and down all these crazy things. What if 884 00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,520 Speaker 1: in reality, when we begin creating moon bases and Mars 885 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,520 Speaker 1: bases and all these other bases, they really do resemble 886 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,879 Speaker 1: ant hills or aunt colonies of some yeah, with humans 887 00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:24,719 Speaker 1: just being in them. How But but it's because if 888 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 1: that is happening and that actually comes to fruition, simultaneously, 889 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: we will be the creatures that are doing that. We're 890 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 1: also the creatures that are edging closer and closer towards 891 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 1: the singularity where we were becoming technological beings. And you know, 892 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 1: if we become technological beings or almost fully technological beings, 893 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,799 Speaker 1: we probably won't need air and all, you know, sustenance 894 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,600 Speaker 1: and insects for eating anymore. We would need biofuel of 895 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,120 Speaker 1: some sort probably, But that and then also having these 896 00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:59,879 Speaker 1: strange structures and I don't know, it's it doesn't seem 897 00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:06,280 Speaker 1: to square, I guess, so yeah, like a retro retrofuturistic 898 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 1: neo primitivism. Almost right, someone who has not plugged into 899 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,480 Speaker 1: whatever invisible uh species wide net we have would just 900 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,080 Speaker 1: see a bunch of really spaced outlooking folks wandering from 901 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,440 Speaker 1: human sized termite mound, the human sized termite mound. But 902 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,560 Speaker 1: there's something else interesting here met um. And I love 903 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,400 Speaker 1: that you bring up the singularity, because my question would be, 904 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,800 Speaker 1: all right, so on the like, just what is it 905 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,279 Speaker 1: right of September is so weird today? Before we recorded, 906 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: discovery just got reported in Nature Astronomy about the discovery 907 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:49,400 Speaker 1: of what appeared to be multiple underground liquid water lakes 908 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,640 Speaker 1: in Mars. Uh So that that's a total game changer 909 00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,480 Speaker 1: for us. Uh So we may have also a subterranean 910 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,960 Speaker 1: species of some sort, because in evitably, you know, these 911 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,560 Speaker 1: things will begin to speciate. You can only live so 912 00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,920 Speaker 1: far away from Earth before you start to change, and 913 00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:09,640 Speaker 1: Earthlings will be changing as well as we approach, as 914 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:15,080 Speaker 1: he said, a singularity. So I am wondering how long 915 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:22,120 Speaker 1: a population on Mars, whatever it becomes, could feasibly say 916 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:26,080 Speaker 1: that it's governed by a population on Earth. I think it's. Uh, 917 00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:29,120 Speaker 1: it's it's a much shorter runway than we believe. You know, 918 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:32,239 Speaker 1: if if you like send, if the U N or 919 00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,040 Speaker 1: that will probably it's we're moving away from states and 920 00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 1: toward corporations. Right, So if the corporation is saying, you know, 921 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,520 Speaker 1: SpaceX is like, okay, this is the SpaceX colony. Uh, 922 00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:49,840 Speaker 1: and then this Martian colony is able to become self sufficient, 923 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:53,839 Speaker 1: then they won't need SpaceX and they won't care about SpaceX. 924 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,000 Speaker 1: So I would not be surprised, and this is speculative, 925 00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,200 Speaker 1: this is conspiratorial. I would not be surprised if the 926 00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:03,719 Speaker 1: people who are planning these trips are baking in reliance 927 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,600 Speaker 1: on the Martian side, like the same way that the 928 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:13,239 Speaker 1: mercantile or mecantilism based economies would bake in reliance on 929 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,120 Speaker 1: the colonial side, Like, make no mistake, you don't want 930 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:21,080 Speaker 1: these people, whatever they become, to be independent, because why 931 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: would they bother with you. It's a good point, Ben, Dude, dude, 932 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,080 Speaker 1: this is this is a weird thing to me. I 933 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,960 Speaker 1: don't know if it's stuff they don't want you to know, 934 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,360 Speaker 1: but it's definitely just odd to think about our future. 935 00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:39,240 Speaker 1: And if they don't want you to know, what it 936 00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,480 Speaker 1: could be that, Ben, that SpaceX will make you reliant 937 00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,280 Speaker 1: on them or no, not not to call you off. 938 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,480 Speaker 1: Space actually doing great work, I'm sure, but whoever, whoever, 939 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,200 Speaker 1: whatever corporation get you to ours may really need you 940 00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:54,240 Speaker 1: to be on the hook. That's how I see it 941 00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:55,840 Speaker 1: in all the sci fi though. That's how it is 942 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,800 Speaker 1: in the alien movies. That's how it is. And oh gosh, 943 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:00,400 Speaker 1: there was a movie with Robert Patt sit in it 944 00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:04,120 Speaker 1: recently where there is a space colony. Um lighthouse. Now 945 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:09,160 Speaker 1: not another weird, weird, real weird one by a French filmmaker, 946 00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,320 Speaker 1: a woman whose name I'm totally forgetting. If Casey Peger 947 00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,080 Speaker 1: was here, he would know. Um it's called high life. 948 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: That's what you were very close. But in this one, 949 00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,360 Speaker 1: like he's sort of the loan survivor on this thing, 950 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,760 Speaker 1: and he keeps sending home messages to the home plan 951 00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:27,040 Speaker 1: under the corporation or whatever, and I don't like, you 952 00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,040 Speaker 1: couldn't rely on them too much. Would they send shuttles 953 00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,440 Speaker 1: with the stuff for you or you would have to grow? 954 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,280 Speaker 1: That would be the plan. But yeah, because it too 955 00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,520 Speaker 1: So I mean, why Mars versus the Moon? And maybe 956 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,280 Speaker 1: this has been discussed a bunch, I'm sure, but it's 957 00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,520 Speaker 1: quicker to get to the moon, right, why not go 958 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,760 Speaker 1: for Moon basis instead of Mars basis? If it takes 959 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:46,560 Speaker 1: two years to get to Mars, well, a lot of 960 00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:49,760 Speaker 1: those lunar places, correctly, if we're wronger, a lot of 961 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,320 Speaker 1: those lunar propositions are meant to be like beachheads. And 962 00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:57,640 Speaker 1: from there we expanned to Europa, to Mars and so on, 963 00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:02,040 Speaker 1: uh and eventually to uh because because we had to 964 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:06,240 Speaker 1: mention it, eventually to Uranus just for a fly by, 965 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:10,000 Speaker 1: just check up the moon. Check up. The moon is 966 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:14,720 Speaker 1: just a launching pad to Uranus. And it's already it's 967 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:20,120 Speaker 1: already crowded, you know. And also Mars may have what Okay, 968 00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:26,040 Speaker 1: so one salient real argument for Mars over the Moon 969 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:31,560 Speaker 1: is that Mars may possess resources that are conducive to 970 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,920 Speaker 1: ultimately self sustaining human life or again, Martian life, whatever 971 00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:39,640 Speaker 1: it becomes. May right, Yeah, well at least way more 972 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,760 Speaker 1: than the lunar surface, at least for our studies of it. 973 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,360 Speaker 1: But but but again, I mean, is it is it 974 00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,560 Speaker 1: a cost benefit analysis? Like I mean, you know, even 975 00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:52,360 Speaker 1: if the moon, you know, you had to make more 976 00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,960 Speaker 1: runs to the Moon. It's what, how does it take 977 00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,360 Speaker 1: to get to the Moon. It's only like three days? 978 00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,800 Speaker 1: I think. Yeah, Well, part of the argument there is 979 00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:03,880 Speaker 1: to you, uh, that's three days if if we have 980 01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:08,800 Speaker 1: the optimal uh orbital conditions, right, Like that's why you'll 981 01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 1: see people saying you could make Mars. You can make 982 01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,600 Speaker 1: the Mars trip in in a very short number of months, 983 01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,840 Speaker 1: like as little as four or five if you go 984 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,560 Speaker 1: at the right time, which occurs every maybe two years. 985 01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,240 Speaker 1: And then you're at the then there were still earth lings, 986 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,600 Speaker 1: so we're at the mercy of earth weather, right, and 987 01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot less atmosphere to worry about. We're launching 988 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,200 Speaker 1: from the Moon, so once you get there, it's easier 989 01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,440 Speaker 1: to build stuff. Maybe if you have the stuff. I 990 01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:41,240 Speaker 1: don't know. Also, this is just me guessing, but what 991 01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:45,760 Speaker 1: if they're what if they're brainstorming which which rock to 992 01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,840 Speaker 1: land on next, and then someone in marketing comes out 993 01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,040 Speaker 1: and they go, well, you know the thing about Mars 994 01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,160 Speaker 1: is it's red. It really pops. You know, it looks 995 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,200 Speaker 1: better on a logo because there because like we can. 996 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,240 Speaker 1: And then they're like, all right, somebody run up cost 997 01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:05,280 Speaker 1: benefit over painting the moon versus going to Mars with 998 01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:07,920 Speaker 1: a much better color scheme. So maybe it's something like that. 999 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:12,560 Speaker 1: We're not in those rooms. Uh, and god, it would 1000 01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:17,440 Speaker 1: probably be terrifying place to be um Man, I guess optimistic. Yeah, 1001 01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,480 Speaker 1: space bricks out of insect kitan more and more than that. 1002 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,280 Speaker 1: That's oversimplifying, but you can make it into all kinds 1003 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,240 Speaker 1: of shapes. And why can't we use this on the 1004 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,160 Speaker 1: on earth to make building materials for like you know, 1005 01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,480 Speaker 1: developments and stuff like that. That's why I want to 1006 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:32,920 Speaker 1: talk to you about this. This is why it's so 1007 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,600 Speaker 1: actually exciting, even though it doesn't sound so appetizing with 1008 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,680 Speaker 1: with all the insects and you know, the slightly strange 1009 01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:45,520 Speaker 1: kitan curious curious is and Kitan left pauldrons and Kitan 1010 01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,680 Speaker 1: grieves that we'd be. You know, I don't know any 1011 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:50,880 Speaker 1: of those words are It's fine. The A R is 1012 01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,000 Speaker 1: pretty good on some of those. It's a light armor. 1013 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,400 Speaker 1: Um oh, I see, it's it's pretty good. You can 1014 01:01:56,440 --> 01:02:00,240 Speaker 1: get You can get like Tilvanni cephalopod helm if you too, 1015 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:01,919 Speaker 1: I mean you could really you could three D print 1016 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,280 Speaker 1: any of these things out of all that stuff. Um. 1017 01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:10,000 Speaker 1: The the Kitan throwing stars were particularly interesting. There was 1018 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:14,960 Speaker 1: an addition that I didn't expect, like defense on mars Um. 1019 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,480 Speaker 1: But I forget where I was going already. Guys. Oh. 1020 01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,720 Speaker 1: The whole concept here is that if this could be achieved, 1021 01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:24,840 Speaker 1: it would be at least as close as you can 1022 01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:30,240 Speaker 1: get to a closed loop zero waste solution for building 1023 01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:35,200 Speaker 1: materials on you know, on another planet, and that that 1024 01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,919 Speaker 1: would be incredible to use their right, But you could 1025 01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,040 Speaker 1: also take that and translate it to Earth, like why 1026 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:45,120 Speaker 1: not if we if we were as gross as it sounds, 1027 01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,080 Speaker 1: if you had a group of people or a large 1028 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:53,200 Speaker 1: corporation that was manufacturing let's say, um, some type of 1029 01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:56,440 Speaker 1: plant and fruit and vegetable they were all edible, right, 1030 01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,160 Speaker 1: and then aside beside that and as part of that them, 1031 01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:04,320 Speaker 1: they're also growing flies and a couple other types of 1032 01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:08,120 Speaker 1: insects that grow alongside the fruit while or and you know, 1033 01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,600 Speaker 1: other food that's been created, and that those two things 1034 01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,160 Speaker 1: are being created that feed the humans. Right, and then 1035 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:19,680 Speaker 1: the waste products from liquids as well as from the 1036 01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,400 Speaker 1: the extra parts of the insects, it's all being used 1037 01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,120 Speaker 1: to then fuel all the building materials and all the 1038 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,160 Speaker 1: things that builds the stuff that you need to keep 1039 01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:30,640 Speaker 1: the thing going, and then it just continues cycling through. 1040 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,160 Speaker 1: They've got great diagrams of exactly how that would function 1041 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,360 Speaker 1: on that plos One article that I mentioned earlier, you 1042 01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,840 Speaker 1: can actually see how they're proposing it would function. And 1043 01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,360 Speaker 1: I think there's a massive opportunity if this technology becomes viable, 1044 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:51,080 Speaker 1: which unfortunately means both scalable and affordable. If this technology 1045 01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:54,919 Speaker 1: becomes viable, there's a massive opportunity for relief housing for 1046 01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:59,160 Speaker 1: disaster survivors. Or think about the millions of people who 1047 01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:05,600 Speaker 1: are trapped in refugee camps, sometimes intergenerationally, which essentially function 1048 01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:09,720 Speaker 1: as open air prisons. Those people could have privacy that 1049 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,640 Speaker 1: they haven't had for decades, right, Uh, they could also 1050 01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:16,800 Speaker 1: have a little bit more safety than they would have 1051 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,120 Speaker 1: ordinarily from both the elements and from bad actors on 1052 01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,280 Speaker 1: the human side. Like I agree. I think sometimes we 1053 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:26,880 Speaker 1: as a species we get our priorities mixed up, you 1054 01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:30,680 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like have you We're we're collectively saying, 1055 01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:36,200 Speaker 1: instead of fixing the planet we already have, let's go 1056 01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,800 Speaker 1: out to eat on another planet. It's like, it's like that, 1057 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,280 Speaker 1: why don't you say home and cook. You've got food, 1058 01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,160 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, clean your kitchen while you're 1059 01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:50,080 Speaker 1: at it is a very imperfect comparison to make, but 1060 01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,600 Speaker 1: you make such an excellent point here, matt Uh. My 1061 01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,760 Speaker 1: last question for you is would you live in one 1062 01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,640 Speaker 1: of these? I mean, if I had to fear, I'd 1063 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,800 Speaker 1: figar how to make it work. As long as I 1064 01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:05,200 Speaker 1: can get the kitan to display Morrow Wind, then I'll 1065 01:05:05,200 --> 01:05:08,600 Speaker 1: be fine. But surely there's things you could add to 1066 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,360 Speaker 1: make it aesthetically pleasing. It doesn't all have to be 1067 01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,080 Speaker 1: like gun metal gray, right, I mean, there's probably some 1068 01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:18,480 Speaker 1: variations you could get to have some patterns and you know, 1069 01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:22,320 Speaker 1: make something a little more appealing to the eye. I 1070 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,880 Speaker 1: would I would just say, watch Raised by Wolves. It's 1071 01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,800 Speaker 1: available right now on HBO Max. That is true. You 1072 01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,840 Speaker 1: can also you can also learn more about populations in 1073 01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:36,400 Speaker 1: the modern day who dwell in caves and now for 1074 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,000 Speaker 1: a long time. I think that could inform some of uh, 1075 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:45,120 Speaker 1: your interior decorating inspirations for your life on Mars or 1076 01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:49,360 Speaker 1: your life here on Earth. So we've gone a little 1077 01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:51,960 Speaker 1: long on this one, but we absolutely hope you enjoy it. 1078 01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:56,080 Speaker 1: You can tell that we are fascinated by all three 1079 01:05:56,320 --> 01:06:01,880 Speaker 1: of these ideas crows versus owls, sharks versus humans in 1080 01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:06,680 Speaker 1: a way, and Mars versus the move versus Earth, and 1081 01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,560 Speaker 1: insects and insects of course, yes, so let us know 1082 01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,320 Speaker 1: what you think of these. Uh, listen when you think 1083 01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,920 Speaker 1: of these ideas, right to us, with your with your 1084 01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,280 Speaker 1: personal calculations behind befriending crows or Corvid's right to us, 1085 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:27,320 Speaker 1: with your understanding of sharks versus humans, and vaccines in general, 1086 01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,080 Speaker 1: your reasons for or against the proposed COVID vaccines or 1087 01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:35,240 Speaker 1: vaccines just overall, we cannot wait to hear from you, 1088 01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,760 Speaker 1: and we try to make it easy to find us. 1089 01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:39,720 Speaker 1: That's right. You can find us in all the usual 1090 01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:44,840 Speaker 1: Internet channels, the social media's or conspiracy Stuff Conspiracy Stuff Show. 1091 01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:47,800 Speaker 1: You can join our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy, 1092 01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:50,440 Speaker 1: easiest thing in the world. Just go in there Facebook 1093 01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,920 Speaker 1: search it up and tell us why you like the 1094 01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,000 Speaker 1: show or who any of us are, name us by name, 1095 01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,440 Speaker 1: or just make Ben laugh or just say anything that. 1096 01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:00,600 Speaker 1: Let's just know that you're aware only of what the 1097 01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:02,840 Speaker 1: thing is that you're trying to get into, and then 1098 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,840 Speaker 1: you're in. That's right. If you don't want to do that, 1099 01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,160 Speaker 1: you can give us a phone call what those things 1100 01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:13,439 Speaker 1: can call people new. Our number is one eight three 1101 01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:17,400 Speaker 1: three st d w y t K. Leave us a message. 1102 01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:19,800 Speaker 1: You may end up on one of our listener mail 1103 01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,640 Speaker 1: episodes if you do leave a message. So please let 1104 01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:24,320 Speaker 1: us know if you're okay with us playing it on 1105 01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,080 Speaker 1: the air, and let us know if we can use 1106 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,680 Speaker 1: your name or if you you know, want any of 1107 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,800 Speaker 1: that stuff to be kept off the record, that's fine 1108 01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,560 Speaker 1: with us. Just let us know. And what you have 1109 01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:34,520 Speaker 1: to say is super juicy. And you want us to 1110 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,720 Speaker 1: do one of those cool cookie voice disguise or things, 1111 01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,080 Speaker 1: we might even be able to go the extra mile 1112 01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:41,280 Speaker 1: for that, but it's got to be good. You don't 1113 01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,640 Speaker 1: want to do any of that stuff. You can reach 1114 01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,280 Speaker 1: us the old fashioned way. If you would like, you 1115 01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:49,840 Speaker 1: can send us an email. We are conspiracy at i 1116 01:07:49,960 --> 01:08:11,000 Speaker 1: heart radio dot com m H. 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