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Speaker 1: Hey, that folks.

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Speaker 2: It is Thursday, December fourth, and day four of the

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Speaker 2: Brian Walsh trial is in the books, and I believe

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Speaker 2: Robes this possibly was one of the most highly anticipated

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Speaker 2: days of the trial, with one of the most highly

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Speaker 2: anticipated witnesses of the trial with that welcome to this

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Speaker 2: episode of Amy and TJ. Sorry about my ring tone

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Speaker 2: there on my phone just going off.

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Speaker 1: But Rose, this.

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Speaker 2: Was a big deal of a day because Brian Walsh,

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Speaker 2: on trial for murdering his wife Anna Walsh, was involved

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Speaker 2: in an affair with a man by the name of

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Speaker 2: William Fastaw. He was on the standday he was, and.

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Speaker 3: It was eye opening, fascinating and uncomfortable at times because yes,

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Speaker 3: he can you imagine he is sitting there in the

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Speaker 3: trial of the man who police say murdered his lover,

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Speaker 3: a man who he was sleeping with his wife. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I can't even imagine what was going through his head

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Speaker 3: as he sat there answering questions, not just from obviously

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Speaker 3: the prosecution, but the cross examination was fairly intense, and

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Speaker 3: the defense did a pretty dang good job following up

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Speaker 3: on a couple of.

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Speaker 4: Items that certainly played into motive.

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Speaker 2: Look, they did a good job all day. Look again,

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Speaker 2: we have been talking some legal experts on this case,

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Speaker 2: and all of them say this is a shitter of

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Speaker 2: a case for any defense attorney, that just this is

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Speaker 2: almost impossible. But they keep giving credit to this defense

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Speaker 2: team and robes just as a casual observer, putting yourself

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Speaker 2: the position of the jury. They made some points today

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Speaker 2: that I set up and said, Okay, you're making me

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Speaker 2: now question motive and the point today a lot of

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Speaker 2: it was about whether or not Brian Walsh knew his

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Speaker 2: wife was having an affair, because that goes to what

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Speaker 2: the prosecution, you would say, is motive, motive for wanting

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Speaker 2: to get out of the marriage, motive for possibly wanting

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Speaker 2: to kill her.

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Speaker 1: Ropes.

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Speaker 2: Today, the defense made some points that made me question

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Speaker 2: whether or not Brian Walsh knew.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listening to William Fastau say that he never once

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Speaker 3: heard Anna say that she thought her husband knew about them,

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Speaker 3: knew about the affair, And maybe even more interesting to

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Speaker 3: me was that he acknowledged he was not ready to

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Speaker 3: go public or be in a open relationship with her

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Speaker 3: given his situation. He was in the middle of a

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Speaker 3: he has young sons. They weren't ready for him to

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Speaker 3: introduce anyone into their lives, so he wasn't pushing for that.

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Speaker 3: And he even said that he knew Anna loved her

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Speaker 3: husband and wasn't necessarily looking to leave him or not

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Speaker 3: be with him, and he testified to that. I thought

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Speaker 3: that was incredibly compelling.

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Speaker 2: Again, he gave us more insights into her, her thinking

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Speaker 2: and her thinking about her marriage today than I ever

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Speaker 2: imagined we would have. Like, today was a very busy day,

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Speaker 2: quite frankly, on the stand. There were a number of

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Speaker 2: witnesses up and down, a lot of experts dealing with

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Speaker 2: cell phone data, a general manager of the hotel excuse me,

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Speaker 2: a parmer complex, where the dumpsters were. There was a

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Speaker 2: lot just established who Anna Walsh was, where she was,

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Speaker 2: where she was not, and things like that. So there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of that stuff. But certainly the star

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Speaker 2: witness of the day was William fast Out Robes had

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Speaker 2: struck me. I did not realize. Again, as we're watching

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Speaker 2: the trial of Brian Walsh, accused of first degree murder

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Speaker 2: for killing his wife, he says, and he has admitted

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Speaker 2: to cutting her up and disposing of her body. He

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Speaker 2: actually has pled guilty to those charges, but says he

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Speaker 2: did not kill her. That So this is where we are.

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Speaker 2: But ropes, I was struck well listening to William fast

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Speaker 2: Ow at just how involved they were and how much

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Speaker 2: they seemed to actually care about each other, even to

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Speaker 2: the point of talking about a potential future.

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Speaker 3: Correct, And we learned I didn't know this how they

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Speaker 3: even met, how they even became involved romantically. But basically

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Speaker 3: what he knew Brian Walsh and Anna Walsh because he

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Speaker 3: sold them the town home that she used because she

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Speaker 3: was working in DC while her family and Brian lived

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Speaker 3: and worked in Boston. She would commute, so she he

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Speaker 3: had regular plane tickets back and forth the DC. So

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Speaker 3: she needed a place to live while she worked there.

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Speaker 3: And so William Fastau sold the Walshes this town home,

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Speaker 3: and that is how they became connected. But yes, they

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Speaker 3: started out as friends and it developed from there. But

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Speaker 3: clearly they cared about each other, and clearly they thought

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Speaker 3: they said he said, they didn't get specific about a

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Speaker 3: future that it was absolutely on the table.

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Speaker 2: So as we're as he's recounting all of this, folks,

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Speaker 2: if you haven't been watching, sitting thirty feet away from

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Speaker 2: him is Brian Walsh, the man who is accused of

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Speaker 2: killing and chopping up the woman that he cared about, right,

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Speaker 2: and then you have Brian Walsh sitting about thirty feet

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Speaker 2: away from the man who was involved in a very intimate, personal, loving,

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Speaker 2: even relationship with his wife. The point is that was.

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Speaker 1: A very tense courtroom today.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was trying to imagine being in either of

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Speaker 3: those shoes, and it's fairly unthinkable because I was really

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Speaker 3: surprised at the cross examination of fast Out and what

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Speaker 3: Brian Walsh's defense team was able to get from him.

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Speaker 4: And basically my takeaway, I walked.

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Speaker 3: Away believing that Brian Walsh didn't necessarily know or have

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Speaker 3: any reason to believe that William Fastau was involved romantically

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Speaker 3: with his wife.

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Speaker 4: Now, there were.

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Speaker 3: Some searches and some other evidence that came out that

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Speaker 3: might that could make me question it, but hearing directly

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Speaker 3: from Fastau himself, he did not believe that Brian knew

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Speaker 3: anything about their relationship.

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Speaker 2: And why is that important? Because you're trying to get

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Speaker 2: this jury to believe this man kill the woman in

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Speaker 2: a way you can't explain and put her body somewhere

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Speaker 2: that you can't find, So okay, so you have a

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Speaker 2: high bar and so I need to believe he had

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Speaker 2: a good reason for killing this woman. One of those

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Speaker 2: reasons is because she was having affair. You've just put

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Speaker 2: doubt in my mind about whether or not he knew

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Speaker 2: this was legit.

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Speaker 1: Today there was doubt. There is doubt.

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Speaker 3: There's absolute doubt that he knew, and I thought it

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Speaker 3: was really When Brian Walsh's defense attorney was following up

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Speaker 3: and following through, he said, or she said, excuse me,

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Speaker 3: when she was cross examining fast Out. He has a

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Speaker 3: couple of defense attorneys, one of them a female, one

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Speaker 3: of them a male. But she asked him, did you

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Speaker 3: believe that Anna might end up staying with Brian? And

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Speaker 3: he said very much so, and she even went so

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Speaker 3: far as to say she made it very clear that

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Speaker 3: she did not want Brian to find out about this

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Speaker 3: relationship with him, and that if there ever came a

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Speaker 3: point in which he needed to find out, because she

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Speaker 3: wanted to leave him and she wanted to spend her

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Speaker 3: life with William Fastau.

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Speaker 4: She said very clearly that she wanted.

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Speaker 3: To be the one who told him, and he made

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Speaker 3: it very clear that she not only loved her husband,

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Speaker 3: but cared about him and cared about how he felt

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Speaker 3: about what she was doing and the relationship she was having.

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Speaker 3: That was really remarkable to me. This didn't seem like

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Speaker 3: some broken marriage where she hated her husband. She hated

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Speaker 3: her She was wanting to do anything to get away

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Speaker 3: from him. Look, you could have painted that picture because

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Speaker 3: Brian Walsh, her husband, was about to go to prison.

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Speaker 3: He was on house arrest for doing something. He was

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Speaker 3: convicted of selling off this fake art, trying to paint

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Speaker 3: it off as what was it?

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Speaker 4: War Hall Andy Warhol.

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Speaker 3: He was convicted, he was It cost them financially significantly.

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Speaker 3: He was owing upwards of almost half a million dollars

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Speaker 3: in restitution, so this was crippling them financially. He was

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Speaker 3: potentially about to go away to prison for several years,

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Speaker 3: leaving her alone with two three young, rambunctious boys.

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Speaker 4: We heard them on the.

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Speaker 3: Audio tape, so I can say that with pretty decent

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Speaker 3: amount of confidence this was a They were a handful,

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Speaker 3: as three young boys might be at two, four and six.

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Speaker 3: That is my brother and my sister in law dealt

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Speaker 3: with that. I saw it from afar. That is not easy.

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Speaker 3: She was a hard working, full time working woman who

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Speaker 3: had a very important job that was in a different city,

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Speaker 3: so you could see where she might have checked out

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Speaker 3: from her life, checked out from her husband, checked out

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Speaker 3: from her family, wanted a new life. That was not

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Speaker 3: the picture that William Fastau painted. He painted a picture

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Speaker 3: of a woman who loved her children, who loved her husband.

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Speaker 4: But maybe she was lonely. Maybe this was I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It was very different than what I thought it might be,

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Speaker 3: given how it ended, given how she ended up sadly, dismembered,

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Speaker 3: discarded in trash bags, and it seemed like by a

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Speaker 3: monster of a husband. And you could absolutely buy into

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Speaker 3: this narrative that he hated her, she hated him. They

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Speaker 3: had no way out, and this is how it ended.

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Speaker 3: That's not the picture her lover painted. And that was

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Speaker 3: very shocking to me.

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Speaker 2: And there is no better in this trial insight. We're

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Speaker 2: going to get into what Anna Walsh was thinking.

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Speaker 1: Than this guy.

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Speaker 2: He knew her, I won't say better, but at least

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Speaker 2: in a different and more intimate way than even her

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Speaker 2: closest friends, because she was confiding in him, she had

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Speaker 2: a secret. They had a life together, and if anybody

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Speaker 2: was going to know that she had any inclination that

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Speaker 2: her husband thought she was having an affair. It would

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Speaker 2: be William fast out to hear him say so emphatically. Nope,

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Speaker 2: she never not a peep of Maybe he knew. That

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Speaker 2: is convincing today robes to put enough doubt. So that's

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Speaker 2: one check for the defense. At least I can take

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Speaker 2: this off the table as a possible motive. This is

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Speaker 2: just a step by step thing and ropes. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I look forward to talking to our next legal expert,

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Speaker 2: because how could you not say that the defense scored today?

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Speaker 4: They did?

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Speaker 3: Because my other as a juror, as a human Again,

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Speaker 3: the judge asked these jurors, as they often do, to

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Speaker 3: use their common sense. I'm thinking to myself here listening

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Speaker 3: to William Fastau on the stand, thinking he must be angry.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking he must be pissed that this man took

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Speaker 3: away this woman who he I don't know that he

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Speaker 3: loved her, but he cared deeply for her.

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Speaker 4: He was potentially planning a future with her.

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Speaker 3: He was already divorced, like he was in the throes

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Speaker 3: of a divorce, so he had.

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Speaker 1: Been separated, separate.

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Speaker 3: He had been separated from his wife before they actually

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Speaker 3: became romantic. For at least a couple of months, I believe,

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Speaker 3: So he was technically free to do as he pleased,

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Speaker 3: free to be.

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Speaker 4: In a relationship with someone else.

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Speaker 3: So to be staring down the man who has been

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Speaker 3: accused of violently taking her life and violently disposing of

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Speaker 3: her body, you would think that even just out of anger,

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Speaker 3: he would not do anything to help his defense. And

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Speaker 3: yet I would say today William Fastau's testimony absolutely helped

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Speaker 3: Brian Walsh's defense, And that's surprising to me.

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Speaker 1: Look, he was a prosecution witness.

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Speaker 2: Look that he was there to do his thing for them,

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Speaker 2: but that the defense, look, we have been impressed. Look,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to say. It's a low bar,

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Speaker 2: but I'm saying it was such a difficult case that

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Speaker 2: any little nugget or score that the defense has seeds

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Speaker 2: may be really impressive. But so I am really amazed

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Speaker 2: because on day two we were like, how is he

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Speaker 2: going to get past these messages, these internet searches, And

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Speaker 2: now I'm sitting here looking and they have raised if

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Speaker 2: it raised it to us, there is some genuine doubt

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Speaker 2: about this one very important point. But yes, we've talked

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Speaker 2: about rods in this case so much has happened while

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Speaker 2: testimony in the actual trial is going on, But also

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Speaker 2: a lot has happened when the jury is out of

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Speaker 2: the room. And it happened again today a very important

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Speaker 2: moment and the judge making a decision about sentencing for

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Speaker 2: Brian Walsh that could impact this case. Stay here, all right, folks,

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Speaker 2: we continue now talking Day four of the Brian Ross's

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Speaker 2: trial robes a big question on this trial or hanging over.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he's on trial for first degree murder. He

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be on trial for first deary murder,

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Speaker 2: dismemberment and lying to police. He pled guilty to dismembering

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Speaker 2: or however the conveyance of a body or house some legal.

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Speaker 3: Term, basically acknowledging that he dismembered and disposed of his

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Speaker 3: wife's body.

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Speaker 2: There it is, and he played guilty to that, and

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Speaker 2: he played guilty to lying to investigators. Now he's supposed

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Speaker 2: to be sentenced on those two charges. The judge has

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Speaker 2: been debating about whether to let the jury know one

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Speaker 2: that he pled guilty and two whether or not to

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Speaker 2: sentence him now. And she's still debating about it. And

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Speaker 2: that debate was going on today after the jury left

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Speaker 2: the room and she still doesn't know what she's going

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 3: That's surprising to me that she doesn't know if she

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Speaker 3: hasn't ruled, it's surprising to me that she doesn't know.

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Speaker 1: She claims she has. She says she hasn't.

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Speaker 3: Because one day prior it seemed as though she was

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Speaker 3: leaning towards not letting the jury know. What would be

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Speaker 3: the benefit in letting the jury know?

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Speaker 4: It seems as though there.

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Speaker 3: Are only legal potential potholes where the defense could claim

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Speaker 3: a mistrial, or they could use it for an appeal process,

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Speaker 3: if somehow they could say the jury was tainted because

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Speaker 3: they found out about prior bad acts or some sort

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Speaker 3: of acknowledgment of another offense that swayed them into finding

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Speaker 3: him guilty of first during murder.

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Speaker 4: Why would you want to.

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Speaker 3: Say yes to something that isn't necessary if it could

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Speaker 3: possibly taint the reasoning behind the outcome. It makes no

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Speaker 3: sense to me why she's even grappling with this.

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Speaker 1: You know what it's You make a good point.

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Speaker 2: The prosecution is requesting, and this is a debate they're

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Speaker 2: going back and forth about it. You make a very

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Speaker 2: very good point. What is the benefit, what how is

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Speaker 2: it hurting the prosecution's case that they can't tell the

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Speaker 2: jury this guy's planned guilty to these other things. You

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Speaker 2: make a very good point. She's saying as well, that

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Speaker 2: how can I sentence him for these other things because

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Speaker 2: they're kind of tied to this other thing first to

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Speaker 2: re murder. So depending on the outcome and the judgment

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Speaker 2: of that is going to have an impact on how

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Speaker 2: I rule or what the sentencing could be for this.

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Speaker 2: They couldn't negate it to some degree or could enhance it,

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Speaker 2: so there is no yet. Enhancement is what they keep using.

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Speaker 2: So it sounds like she's leaning against them knowing and

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Speaker 2: leaning against the sentencing before the end.

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Speaker 1: Of this trial.

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Speaker 4: That would make the most sense to me.

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Speaker 3: I actually don't understand the argument to do anything but

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Speaker 3: that from Again, no legal mind here, I was not

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Speaker 3: I got my Bachelor of Arts in journalism. I am

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Speaker 3: not a legal scholar in any way, shape or form,

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Speaker 3: but just common sense. Again, I don't understand how that

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Speaker 3: would make any sense for her to go ahead and

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Speaker 3: sentence Brian Walsh for those two charges he pleaded guilty

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Speaker 3: to and then let the jury in on that.

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Speaker 4: That is going to sway the jury you can't on

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Speaker 4: hear that?

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, folks, we will start up again tomorrow morning.

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Speaker 2: They will be back at at day five of the

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Speaker 2: Brian Walsh trial. Testimony starts up again at nine a m.

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Speaker 2: If you all are interested, we'll let you know it is.

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Speaker 2: Court TV is covering this thing. If you want to

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Speaker 2: up there are probably some other places will tell you

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Speaker 2: what we're using.

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Speaker 1: Court TV.

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Speaker 2: They have a live feed it's uninterrupted that you can

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Speaker 2: watch and we'll keep an eye. If you don't keep

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Speaker 2: an eye on that, you can just on your Apple

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Speaker 2: podcast app top right corner of the screen. On our

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Speaker 2: show page, it says follow click that and you'll get

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Speaker 2: our updates and we will have them every day for

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Speaker 2: you in this Brian Welsh trial.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, tomorrow is a kind of a half day. I guess.

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Speaker 3: It's nine am to one pm tomorrow Eastern time. It's

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Speaker 3: a Friday. We don't know exactly why, but we have

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Speaker 3: been riveted. We hope you are too, because this is

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Speaker 3: some fascinating stuff. And again, to just see Brian Walsh

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Speaker 3: in court with all that's been said and all that

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Speaker 3: he's accused of, it is it's hard to keep your

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Speaker 3: eye off of that.

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Speaker 4: Courtroom just outside of Austin.

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Speaker 3: But we are watching it for you in case you

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Speaker 3: don't have the time to do that, and we thank

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Speaker 3: you for listening to us.

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Speaker 4: We always appreciate that. I'm Amy Roeboch alongside TJ. Holmes,

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Speaker 4: and we will talk to you soon