WEBVTT - Ep 63 Poison Ivy: It's Just Us 0:00:01.160 --> 0:00:05.240 Before we get started on this very fun episode, we 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.760 have a couple of things that we want to announce. 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.360 So we recorded this back in November of twenty twenty 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.440 and since that time, since we recorded it, there have 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:20.160 been two very exciting developments as it pertains to Matt Candeas. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:25.400 Number one is that Matt candeis is now doctor Matt 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:26.720 candeis PhD. 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:29.000 Heck, you're not right. 0:00:29.960 --> 0:00:31.840 He successfully defended his PhD. 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:37.480 Woohoo, congratulations, thrilling. And number two is that not only 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.360 did he defend his PhD, but doctor Candeus wrote a dang. 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:45.360 Book, a whole book while he was hosting an amazing 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.200 podcast while he was working on his dissertation. 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.080 I mean, like that's in will Stuck in Quarantine? Like 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:57.680 what Yeah, it's called in Defensive Plants, an Exploration into 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:00.680 the Wonder of Plants, And it's a val for pre 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.000 order now. It's scheduled to be released on February sixteenth 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.160 of twenty twenty one, so make sure you put in 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:07.160 your pre order now. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:08.360 I can't wait. 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:10.000 I've already ordered two copies. 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:12.880 Absolutely, and we will link to it on our website 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:13.280 as well. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:02:01.080 Okay, now we'll get into the episode. Hi, I'm Aaron Welsh, 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:02.960 and I'm Aaron Olman Updike. 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:04.880 And I'm Matt can Dais. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:10.880 Yeah, and this is a very special crossover edition of 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:12.080 this podcast Will. 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.280 Kill You And in defensive plants. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.360 What episode are we even covering today? What's the topic? 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:27.560 Very stoked to be talking about poison ivy and like 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:28.680 poison oak and stuff. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.560 Yeah, yeah, I mean it'll be poison ivy, poison oak, 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.800 poison sumac, lacquer tree, I'm sure lots of other stuff. 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.919 I am super pumped. There's a lot more there than 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.000 I thought in terms of the history. I have already 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:48.280 so many questions for both of you two, so yep, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:56.200 sorry in advance, but yeah, so hopefully to make the 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:01.760 question and answer aspect a little bit more palatable, let's 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:06.720 talk about the quarantine for this week's let us. So, 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:07.960 what are we drinking? 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:16.560 M Itch cream crem Itch crem. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:26.120 Sorry, it's so appropriate because what is in the krem 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:26.440 to it? 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:33.880 Of course, many different crems. We have crem to cacao, yep, 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:40.480 and just regular crem, which is heavy cream and uh 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.800 an almond liqueur and then some grenadine just to make 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.200 sure that it looks like what Aaron, what's the look 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:47.240 that we're going for here? 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.280 I believe, Aaron, that we are going for the look 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:51.320 of calamine lotion. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:53.200 We are. 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.640 It's not the smell of calamine, which is maybe a 0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.920 good thing, but I kind of like the smell of 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:00.680 calumin motion. 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:02.440 It's oddly nostalgic. 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:08.040 Oddly yeah, well, yeah, I mean it's a little too 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.920 recent for me. Yeah, yeah, it is also nostalgic. 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.200 I swear this Quarantini tastes better than it sounds. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.440 Yeah, really, it really does. It's a very like nineteen 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:21.040 fifties quarantine for sure. 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:22.600 Yeah, I'll get on board with that. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.800 And also, I wonder for those who are dairy free 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.360 out there. I would guess that coconut cream or coconut 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.520 milk would work as well as heavy cream. 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.360 I bet coconut cream would work really well. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:34.719 I bet it'd be pretty tasty too. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:43.800 Yeah. Well, well, then, do we have business to take 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.520 care of before we dive in? I feel like we should, 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:47.840 but I don't know if we do. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.720 I can't think of any right now. Maybe we'll have 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.960 to record something and splice it. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:55.760 In behind the scenes. 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.000 Wouldn't be the first time. 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.960 No, let's just dive right in. I'm really I can't 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.039 wait to hear about the history of this. I also 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.279 always forget that we do these episodes in a different order. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:13.839 I know, I know time this is our first rodeo, 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:15.919 it is the very. 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:20.440 First time in our sixty third episode or something. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.520 Yeah, who knows. Okay, well, let's take a quick break first, 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:26.120 and then we'll dive into the history. 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:27.120 Cool awesome. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.080 I feel like everyone, well maybe not everyone, but at 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.640 least a lot of people who have spent any time 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.760 in US forests have a poison ivy or a poison 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.560 oak or a poison sumac story. Whether it happened to 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:08.200 them or whether it happened to a friend or a cousin. 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.600 These plants seem to have really left their mark in 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.560 like a well I learned my lesson kind of a way, 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.599 because is there any story that's not like and that's 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.840 the last time I'll use an unidentifiable vine as toilet paper. 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:30.400 I know a sad amount of those stories. Leaves of three, man, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.000 just let it be. 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.240 I mean, okay, I have I'm gonna put a pin 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.479 in that because I have questions about the whole Leaves 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:39.840 of three thing. But yeah, we'll get back to palid 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:43.720 So my older sister and my mom would get poison 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:47.720 ivy rashes like every summer, it seemed, and there would 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:51.520 always be cursing about gardening, and the bathtub would be 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.800 crusty with colloidal oatmeal scum, and then there would be 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:59.320 smears of pink calamine lotion, like on the most unexpected 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:05.960 surfaces like doorknobs and like you know, carpet whatever, just 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.920 kid well, I would just sit there and be unbearably 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.560 smug because even though I spent most of my childhood 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.160 playing outside capture the flag or running to get the 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.600 soccer ball after it dribbled off into the woods, I 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.120 was always poison ivy free. I was like, no, I'm 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.720 not affected by poison ivy, you know, like it was unbearable, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:30.320 I'm sure. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:31.000 So. 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:36.080 Yeah, that was me until this summer. And you guys 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.520 know the story, or at least like bits of it 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:44.000 in the picture. Yeah, the pictures are horrific, and I 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:49.280 will post them. Yeah, I'll do like progress picks, because 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:54.480 I did. I took them every day. Okay, But for 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.360 our listeners, the long and short of it is that 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.160 maybe don't brag about being immune to the to the 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:06.480 effects of poison ivy at all, and also maybe know 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:09.160 what the plants look like and avoid. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.360 Them, start with the ones that can affect you. 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:17.760 Yeah, it's a great that's a great idea. This summer, 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.120 I went to my mom's house in Kentucky for a bit. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.480 I helped out with gardening and cleaning up, namely around 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.200 a fire pit, pulling tons and tons of viny plants 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.840 off the rocks and bushes and then also burning it, 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.200 which could have been a lot worse, I want. Yeah, 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.160 And then a day or two later, everything on my 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:42.920 body was itchy, like my A couple days after that, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.840 my arms, my legs, my torso was absolutely covered in 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.160 the most painful, itchy rash I've ever experienced. I didn't 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.120 get any sleep, and I went through like an entire 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.880 bottle of calamine lotion legit, and I eventually was in 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.079 such unbearable discomfort that I had to go to urgent 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:05.000 care and they gave me steroids because wow, I couldn't 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:09.240 just function. Yep, I still have the marks on my arms, 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:12.440 like this is six months later and it's still there. 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.679 Uh yeah. So Anyway, after I came out of the 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.560 fog of this experience, I became super curious about this 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:24.560 horrific plant, like it's history, why on Earth my body 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.840 reacted so badly after years of complacency, and most importantly, 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.840 to see if it served any ecological purpose so that 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.600 I couldn't ethically go through my plan of ridding the 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:37.840 earth of such a terrible substance. 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.120 Please don't. We'll get into that, but please don't. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.480 Okay, all right, Fine, I knew it. I stink and 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.720 knew it, all right. So that's when I texted you 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.960 guys and was like, can we do an episode on 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:50.920 poison ivy? 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:51.640 Yes? 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.199 Please, because I don't want to have to do all 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:59.440 the reading myself anyway. Okay, but this episode isn't specifically 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:03.319 about poison. It's about the thing in it that causes 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:08.240 this rash, erushiol, which I hope is the right way 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.240 to say it. There are different pronunciations out there on 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:14.760 the internet. It is spelled in case you are curious, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:19.120 you are U shiol erin. I'm sure that you'll talk 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.520 a lot more about its structure and its effects. But basically, 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.360 erushiol is an oily mix of organic compounds, and it 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:29.640 can be found in a bunch of different species of plants. Matt, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.200 I'll leave it to you to get to those specific numbers. 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:37.040 But the human history of urushiol goes back thousands and 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:41.800 thousands of years. The erushil containing sap of the lacquer 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:45.520 tree has been used as like this hard varnish or 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:50.520 lacquer in Chinese, in Korean and Japanese lacquerware for around 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.920 six thousand years, so like a really long time. And 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.400 it's also like been used to coat wood. It's very 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:03.080 very hard and durable, super cool. And the word erusiol 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.600 actually derives from the Japanese word for the lacquer tree, 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.960 which is erushi. Huh yeah. And the very first descriptions 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.280 of the rash caused by exposure to erushiol they talk 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.080 about how it appears in lacquer artists on their hands 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:24.319 and arms, especially those just learning the art. And here 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.920 in North America, poison ivy, poison oak, and poison sumac. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.120 These plants were all used by some Native American groups 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:36.319 for various purposes such as dyeing or writing on textiles. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.960 So apparently like the sap will be like a dark 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.480 color that increases in darkness over time, and it kind 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.839 of continues to bleed it's really interesting, Like there are 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:47.839 pictures of this that you can see, and they were 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:53.160 also used as materials for baskets, as medicinal treatments, including 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:58.280 possibly hyposensitization, cooking, and also in some religious rites. So 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.160 there are a bunch of different purposes for which these 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:06.120 different erusial containing plants were used in North America. Prior 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.280 to in North America by Native Americans, but the first 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.559 written descriptions of the irritating effects of the actual poison 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:20.640 ivy plant came from none other than John Smith. Like huh, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:27.200 like Pocahon, Pocahontas, Jamestown, John Smith. Wow, So he definitely 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.760 wasn't the first European to observe the effects that the 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:33.600 plant had, but he based his observations on someone else's 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:44.240 unpublished manuscript, which is cool, don't take a threadlish. He didn't, 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:45.960 at least from what I could read. He wasn't like, 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.800 so I discovered this plant, like he wrote about it 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.360 as if it had already been known. So yeah, anyway, 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.080 but he wrote that quote, the poisoned weed is much 0:12:56.120 --> 0:13:00.600 in shape like our English ivy, but being touched causeth redness, itching, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.839 and lastly blisters and which Housoever, after a while pass 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:08.560 away of themselves without further harm. Yet because for the 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.800 time they are somewhat painful, it hath got itself an 0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:17.319 ill name, although questionless of no ill nature. Huh yeah, okay, 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.960 So he's like, these don't mean to do anything. It's 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.680 not that bad like poison. That seems like at you, 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:31.120 but I mean grow up. And so this description, which 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.800 was written in the sixteen hundreds, of course, kind of 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.920 sets the tone that a lot of early naturalists took 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.839 towards the plant. They felt that it didn't deserve the 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.840 name poison, but only a few of them dared to 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.040 suggest that the plants held potential for commercial or medicinal use, 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.200 despite having observed some Native American groups using the plants 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:57.360 in these various ways. So throughout much of the sixteen 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.040 hundreds and seventeen hundreds, the rusiol reducing plants of North 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:06.480 America didn't receive much attention from the botanists or naturalists, 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:11.240 mostly just being written about as a curiosity. I do 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.400 want to read like a couple of excerpts from this 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:19.200 description of poison IVY from the early seventeen hundreds, naturalist 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.880 Paul Dudley of Massachusetts. 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.720 Oh, yes, Dudley. Okay, I have no idea who he is. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.920 Let's see. Okay, so here's here's a little bit of 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.800 this description. So the inside of the wood is yellow 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.760 and very full of juice, as glutinous as honey or turpentine. 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.680 The wood itself has a strong unsavory smell, but the 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:52.160 juice stinks as bad as carrion. Okay, the juice, the juice, Okay, 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.840 a little bit more. First, it must be observed that 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.680 it poisons two ways, either by touching or handling it, 0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.960 or by the smell. For the scent of it when 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.360 cut down in the woods or on the fire, has 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.840 poisoned persons to a very great degree. And then he 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.000 talks about how it only affects some people, for I 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.080 have seen my own brother not only handle it, but 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.840 chew it without any harm at all, which is horrifying 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:21.520 to think of, absolutely horrifying. And then the third thing 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.920 that he mentions is that this sort of poison is 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.440 never mortal, and will go off in a few days 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.320 of itself, like the sting of a bee. But generally 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.600 the person applies plantain water or salad oil, which is 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:37.120 olive oil and cream okay, And then he talks about 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:41.000 how his neighbor, who was so badly affected by it, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.320 said that from this point on he will always remember 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.840 the touch of poison ivy because it is as cold 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.720 as a piece of ice, and he could distinguish it, 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.520 whether blindfold or in the dark, from any other wood 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.560 in the world. And so in that description there were 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.680 a few mentions of remedies like salad, oil and cream. 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.680 But I also saw recommended to rub a mixture of 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:08.800 charcoal and hog's lard on the affected areas. Could work, 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.360 two knows. I don't know if it would smell grate. 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.440 And of course, you know, to throw back to our 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:20.880 quarantiny calamine. So I was like, well, what is calamine lotion? 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.000 What's the history of calamine lotion? 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.920 Two histories for the price of one here, Eric, I. 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.360 Mean, this is this is literally like a sentence. 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:30.920 But yes, let's go with that. 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:35.880 I did a tiny bit of digging because it's kind 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.400 it was kind of hard to find a lot of 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:43.320 like substantial information. But it goes way back. So calamine lotion, 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.640 it's that pink liquidy lotion used to treat all kinds 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:48.920 of itchy things. It's supposed to dry out the skin 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.280 and relieve the itch. That way, It's made of zinc 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.080 oxide and ferric oxide. And I found a mention in 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.920 one book that calamine lotion has been used as far 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.800 back as fifteen hundred BCE in ancient Egypt. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:07.080 Whoa, yeah, so wait is it? How is it different 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:08.280 than like sunscreen? 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.120 Like, yeah, isn't like zinc and all that and sunscreen too? 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:11.960 Yeah? 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:17.000 I don't know. I mean, so zinc oxide and ferric oxide, 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:18.480 and then there are some other things in there, like 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.800 phenol and stuff. I can't remember what else is in 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.639 there is like, but the zinc oxide and ferric oxide 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.560 are the two active ingredients. 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:26.880 That's wild interesting. Wow. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.680 Yeah, So anyway, Aaron, maybe you can tell us whether 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:31.600 it does anything. 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.600 Do you want me to just spoilers? I mean, yeah, 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:35.440 it helps the edge? 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:43.400 Okay, good, I mean I n of one, that's me. Yes, 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.000 I can attest to that that it did help tremendously. 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:47.919 I was coated. Okay. 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.719 Anyway, Okay, little pink airon run into the woods. 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.520 During this time. Unless you were living in areas where 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.600 these plants flourished, you probably didn't know of its existence. 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.679 Unless you were like a super enthusiastic botanist like Matt indeed, 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.440 and in which case you could even get some seeds 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.960 and have them grow in your own garden, and that's 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:19.200 exactly what people did. Poison ivy and poison sumac were 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:23.040 grown in the English Royal gardens at Q, the gardens 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.399 of the Faculty of Medicine in Paris, and also in 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.760 the gardens of the Empress Josephine Bonaparte. 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:34.919 That's red. Huh yeah good that good for them, Yeah. 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:35.080 Good for them. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.200 It never reached super popularity status for reasons you can 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:43.359 probably guess, but it did earn a super fan in 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:47.359 the late seventeen hundreds by the name of Andre de Fresnoy. 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.960 He was an army physician and a professor of medicine, 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.760 and so during this time in Western medicine, a lot 0:18:54.840 --> 0:19:00.000 of medicinal treatments were derived directly from plants, and basically, 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.600 if a plant produced some sort of strong effect on 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.160 the human body after contact or ingestion, it was thought okay, 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:10.399 in smaller doses this could be helpful. And this fine 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:13.040 line between medicine and poison is something that we've definitely 0:19:13.040 --> 0:19:16.840 touched on in all of our poison crossover episodes. So 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.600 like Rice and Belladonna Wolf Spain, this two facedness of 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.680 these compounds, and so it totally makes sense that poison 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.800 ivy and other related plants were looked at for their 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.640 potential in medicine. This guy, Defresnoy, didn't start off as 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.919 the world's biggest poison ivy fan. He was giving a 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:40.680 lecture about various medicinal plants, which included poison ivy, and 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:44.480 he was talking about the painful and itchy sores that 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.239 it could cause, and there was some young dude in 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.119 the audience who was like, all right, yeah, I'll believe 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.000 it when I see it. And so after the lecture 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.080 he went up and was like, can I have some 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:58.480 of those leaves? I'm gonna see if this actually causes 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:04.880 the horrible blisters you said it will. And it did horrible, horrible, painful, 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.800 itchy blisters all over his hand and wrist, and he 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.119 probably regretted his choice a little bit. But when the 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.760 swelling finally went down, he noticed that an old sore 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.800 that had been on his wrist for ages had finally disappeared, 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.679 and so he went back to Defresnoy and was like, 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.800 oh my gosh, this old sword disappeared. I'm pretty sure 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:29.840 that the poison ivy treated it, and so Defresnoy was like, 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:32.800 I've discovered the next big thing in medicine. So he 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.200 started like cultivating this thing like crazy. He began prescribing 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:40.280 poison IVT, which he personally tested out and noted, Oh, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.919 it only causes mild stomach irritation and increased sweat and 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:45.280 increased urine production. 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:47.760 Oh great, I don't need to sweat anymore. 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.679 Really, I don't think that would be a good idea. 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.120 I'm horrified to think of drinking poison iv T, but don't. 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.480 Also, I do want to rub poison ivy on anyone 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.359 at a A Q and A that says really a 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.400 comment more than a question. But I digress. 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:22.600 Oh my god, I love that beautiful. So he Defresnoy 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.560 was still somehow encouraged by what he was seeing, so 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:30.000 he claimed it could cure anything from skin maladies to paralysis. 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.639 Whether he actually did any controlled trials is not. 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:36.440 Known, and he was just making stuff. 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.880 I'm didn't yep. 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:45.119 But that didn't stop him from lovingly cultivating more and 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.760 more and more of the plants and sending them to 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:52.800 his botanist friends and his love for poison Ivy nearly 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.600 got him killed, actually not by the plant, but for 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:01.320 political reasons. So he had sent some plants to one 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:04.040 of his friends because his friends wanted to or his 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.280 friend wanted to like cultivate it, and then he wrote 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.719 a follow up letter to ask how the plants were doing, saying, 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.600 how are our dear ruths like RHUs because that was 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.800 the genus back in the day. How I longed to 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:23.720 see them, oh dear, And unfortunately for de FRESNOI, the 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:28.520 letter got intercepted and the authorities accused him of working 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:33.800 with the Russians, which like wo yep, But eventually he 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.320 was like, no, no, I'm just a plant nerd. I 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:37.800 really didn't mean it. 0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:40.960 Think I've almost been politically assassinated. 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.119 I mean, I really feel like it might. It's a 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:51.560 dangerous profession. So he explained himself out of it, and 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:56.080 sadly his poison Ivy garden didn't outlive him by very much. 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.359 After he died, his pharmacist brother dug up all of 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:03.200 the plants into de stored them. These are terrible. 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.959 Things, ye Look, I know about drugs and this is 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:08.359 not We're not doing yes. 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:14.359 I think it was described as his skeptical pharmacist brother 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:23.359 cool skeptic, and Russiel producing plants never did really seem 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.879 to find another champion for their use in medicine, but 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:31.040 beginning in the early twentieth century, there was increasing attention 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:34.080 paid to this group of poisonous plants as a whole. 0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.399 Botanists reclassified the plants from the genus roost to the 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:44.040 genus Toxicodendron, while chemists began trying to pin down exactly 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:46.639 what it was about these plants that caused such irritation. 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.879 In the early days of germ theory, some researchers floated 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:52.959 the idea that it was actually pathogenic microbes in the 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.119 plant that caused the horrible reaction in humans. It was 0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:59.840 actually an affection, and the one that was shown not 0:23:59.880 --> 0:24:03.680 to be true. I kind of love the enthusiasm for microbes, 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:06.160 so it was just like me to my crobes solve everything, 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.000 Like every question we've ever had, it's microbes, Like. 0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:12.040 I really I think that's adorable and I really like it. 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:17.920 But yeah, it wasn't true. And then people were like, Okay, 0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:20.480 maybe it's a volatile oil exuded by the plant into 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.840 the air, or maybe it's a carbohydrate. But finally the 0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:26.880 mystery was solved in the nineteen twenties when the Japanese 0:24:26.920 --> 0:24:31.800 scientist Rico Majima described the exact chemical structure of the toxin, 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:34.600 which is really a mix of organic compounds like I 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:38.919 mentioned earlier, and he named it arushiol. And from what 0:24:39.000 --> 0:24:43.120 I can tell, poison ivy and other urushiol producing plants 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:46.440 have never really stood front and center in academic research, 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:50.160 although there does seem to be lots of comparative studies 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:53.600 with other organic irritating compounds, as well as some research 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.760 into detecting tiny amounts of rousio using UV light. But 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:01.879 poison ivy did earn its place in popular culture with 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:05.679 the song Poison Ivy by the Coasters, recorded in nineteen 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:07.359 fifty nine. Do you guys know the song? 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:08.040 Classic? 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:08.199 Now? 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:09.359 I have no idea. I've never heard that. 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:11.600 Are you serious? We used to sing this, I think 0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:14.120 because my mom was so badly affected by poison ivy 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:15.960 all the time. This was like a family favorite. 0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:21.680 I feel very weird thing. Maybe I would know it. 0:25:21.840 --> 0:25:24.160 Okay, I'm not going to sing it because I won't 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:26.800