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Speaker 1: But first let's talk taxes with Steven Moscowitz, the founder

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Speaker 1: and tax attorney at moscow AT's LLP, long time a

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Speaker 1: friend of the Armstrong and Getty Show and advisor on

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Speaker 1: matters tax as well. Stephen, how are.

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Speaker 2: You doing great? My favorite day of the year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not mine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're the only one, but so we're You're always

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Speaker 1: brimming with interesting tax talk. You love your job as

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Speaker 1: much as anybody in America. So what's the top of

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Speaker 1: mind for you today to communicate to the good folks?

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Speaker 2: You know, there's so much If you haven't done your

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Speaker 2: tax return by now, don't be like in the movies,

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Speaker 2: work until midnight to get it out. Go on extension now,

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Speaker 2: the extension and extension of time to file, not an

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Speaker 2: extension of time to pay. But if you can't pay

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Speaker 2: your taxes, don't make the mistake of not final return

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Speaker 2: file it. Pay what you can and then you can

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Speaker 2: do a monthly payment plan. And you know, I know

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Speaker 2: in the movies the irs is portrayed as monsters. They're not,

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Speaker 2: you know, like any large group, always a bad apple,

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Speaker 2: and there's always somebody great, but most of them are

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Speaker 2: just doing their job. If you're reasonable with them, they'll

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Speaker 2: be reasonable for you. You can work something out. You

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Speaker 2: don't have to be afraid of it. You can work

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Speaker 2: something out. That's what we do for people. But the

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Speaker 2: bottom line is these problems are fixable. And I've seen

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Speaker 2: over the years so many people. They go into hiding,

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Speaker 2: they do these horrible things. They punish themselves, way worse

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Speaker 2: than the government ever would, and there's no need for that.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, there's so many tax benefits. If

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Speaker 2: you're a do it yourself or there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: good things to read, you might also want to consider

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Speaker 2: talking to somebody. There's so many advantages, especially if you're

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Speaker 2: in business. You take a look at the fortune five

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Speaker 2: hundred and that's one of the things that originally motivated

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Speaker 2: me to becometacts attorney because you know, as a CPA

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Speaker 2: first and I watched these giant corporations making billions of

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Speaker 2: dollars and legally paying a little or no taxes, and

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Speaker 2: how can that be? Our tax law is based on

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Speaker 2: two things. One getting money from us. We all know

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Speaker 2: about that one, but the other one. In a democracy,

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Speaker 2: the government can't order us to do things, but they

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Speaker 2: want us to do things because it's good for the economy.

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Speaker 2: So how they get to do it They pay us.

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Speaker 2: And that's the secret of all these tax deductions. There's

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Speaker 2: all kinds of tax incentives. We see simple ones like

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Speaker 2: buying a house you get a tax deduction for mortgage

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Speaker 2: interest in real estate taxes. You set up a pension

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Speaker 2: for yourself, you get a tax deduction for that. There's

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Speaker 2: so many benefits where if you have depreciation on machinery

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Speaker 2: or buildings, there's ways to accelerate that and get way

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Speaker 2: more get these huge deductions. Another thing, to me, the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful words in the English language are a positive

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Speaker 2: cash flow with a tax laws.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it rot.

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Speaker 2: In your life? I mean, it brings it dear to

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Speaker 2: the eye. It's so emotional to me. And the bottom

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Speaker 2: line is there's so much there where you can you

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Speaker 2: can benefit. And I mean there's benefits for everybody. It's

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Speaker 2: not just for its people, it's for everything. If you're

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Speaker 2: on the lower end of the income scale, the government

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Speaker 2: gives you all kinds of benefits for you, for your kids,

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Speaker 2: family members. If you're on the other end, there's ways

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Speaker 2: that you can deduct your yachts and everything in between.

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Speaker 2: The tax law has something for everybody. In it. It's

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Speaker 2: worth it knowing it's studying or going as somebody does.

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Speaker 2: There's just so much there, and yet so many people

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Speaker 2: treat it with despair and it's horrible. It's not you

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Speaker 2: have to take a look at all the good things

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Speaker 2: that they're they're there, you just have to know about it.

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Speaker 3: So we talk a lot about You've talked a lot

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Speaker 3: about how the complexity of the tax code. I mean,

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Speaker 3: if if we're starting the tax code today, nobody would

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Speaker 3: want to end up with what we currently have, even

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Speaker 3: though it's so hard to change. But like when you

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Speaker 3: started many years ago, how many pages or rules were

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Speaker 3: there compared to today?

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Speaker 2: All you know, I remember when I was in grad school.

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Speaker 2: The professor actually went over that and he took it

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Speaker 2: even back further where he basically showed us with his hands.

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Speaker 2: He said, when he started in tax basically the tax

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Speaker 2: law was and he opened his fingers to show us.

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Speaker 2: Now he said today this is back when I was

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Speaker 2: in school. He opened his arms. He said, that's not

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Speaker 2: wide enough. And what happens is it's not just the law,

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Speaker 2: it's the interpretations. A lot of what we do is

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Speaker 2: we argue over what did the legislators in their infinite

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Speaker 2: wisdom provide for us. And oftentimes the judges can't agree,

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Speaker 2: and so many times will do a settlement because both

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Speaker 2: sides say, well, we don't really know what they meant.

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Speaker 2: So rather than have the judges a side, let's make

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Speaker 2: a deal. And again you see judges disagreeing. You say,

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Speaker 2: appeals judges disagreeing with trial judges. It's almost like nobody knows.

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Speaker 2: It's a grand mystery, one of the mysteries of life.

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Speaker 2: And going through this a cent it really is. I

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Speaker 2: know how excited I get about tax law, but it

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Speaker 2: really is the mysteries of life. And in real life,

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Speaker 2: it's not a black and white mathematical one boss one

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Speaker 2: equals too, that's the right answer. It's like going into

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Speaker 2: the museum and looking at the paintings and say, what's

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Speaker 2: the most beautiful painting here. It's a matter of interpretation.

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Speaker 2: And there's so much of the tax faw like that

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Speaker 2: what the legislators mean. And when you argue tax law,

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Speaker 2: that's one of other things too. You try to throw

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Speaker 2: what did they mean? And you negotiate about it to

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Speaker 2: try and figure out what they mean. That's something that

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Speaker 2: people don't realize about tax law. But that's part of

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Speaker 2: the beauty of or at least the way the system works.

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Speaker 1: So Stephen. In real life, the topic I've probably heard

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Speaker 1: the most from people being confused about is if they're

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Speaker 1: working remotely, part time or full time. They've got a

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Speaker 1: home office. I've got a home studio. Can you deduct

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Speaker 1: the equipment you buy? The chair you're sitting on? What

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Speaker 1: are the pros and cons of the.

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Speaker 3: Your Wi Fi because you're using it at home?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you may be able to, and what you have

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Speaker 2: to watch out for the most common is the home office.

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Speaker 2: People say, can I deduct the home office now? In

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Speaker 2: order to deduct it? The way you do it is

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Speaker 2: you say, okay, if you use a portion of your

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Speaker 2: home exclusively for business, you can deduct it. And even

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Speaker 2: if you're at a studio apartment that's one room, how

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Speaker 2: can you do that? The taskboard has ruled, is we

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Speaker 2: use a portion of that room exclusively for business. You

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Speaker 2: can do it, but you have to watch out. There's

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Speaker 2: a downside to doing it. And the downside to doing

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Speaker 2: is it converts that portion of your home from your

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Speaker 2: principal residence, which has all kinds of tax benefits, into

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Speaker 2: business property, which doesn't. So if you sell the house,

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Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you learn about things you

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Speaker 2: have to give back, like depreciation, recapture and other things.

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Speaker 2: So if you're thinking about deducting home office, you can

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Speaker 2: do it if you qualify, but you may not want to.

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Speaker 3: Then I never thought about the end when you go

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Speaker 3: to sell your house and that that's not a house,

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Speaker 3: that's an officer selling.

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Speaker 2: And here's the everything that goes with that exactly. So

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Speaker 2: the bottom line is it's kind of like medicine. This

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Speaker 2: is a good medicine, but as a side effect which

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Speaker 2: may or may not affect you. So we talk about that.

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Speaker 2: And the bottom line is another thing that's really good

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Speaker 2: for evil is if you're an independent contractor, you set

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Speaker 2: up your own business and then you take pension deductions retirement,

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Speaker 2: and there's so many benefits. You have big task deduction.

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Speaker 2: And one of the things with retirement, like we're here

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Speaker 2: at is it's a POL fifteen and you say, well, these

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Speaker 2: are all good things for next year, but there's some

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Speaker 2: things you can still do. Suppose you put your return

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Speaker 2: on extension today. There's many different types of pensions, most

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Speaker 2: but not all of them provide for an exceptional tax

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Speaker 2: plane because most things with tax plane you have to

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Speaker 2: write the check by December thirty first twenty four, deduct

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Speaker 2: to twenty four. Not with most of the pension planets, you

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Speaker 2: have up to the time filing the return plus extension,

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Speaker 2: which means suppose you put your return on extension today,

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Speaker 2: that gives you half the year to set up the

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Speaker 2: tension in twenty twenty five, fund it in twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: and then you can elect to deduct it from your

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Speaker 2: twenty four taxes. So the bottom line, think about you

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Speaker 2: earned money last year, you have another six months half

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Speaker 2: a year to earn money, put it away for yourself,

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Speaker 2: and take a deduction for last year twenty four. I

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Speaker 2: mean for me, this is just fascinating.

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Speaker 1: So that would be like a small business person and

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Speaker 1: had a really great twenty twenty four and is getting

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Speaker 1: hammered with taxes. It can in effect shield some of

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Speaker 1: that income from tax by putting it in a pension

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Speaker 1: plan like retroactively.

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Speaker 2: Ah. And when somebody gives you something nice, what do

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Speaker 2: you say, thank you? Well, lawyer says more, I want more.

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Speaker 2: And what happens is with the really great year you

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Speaker 2: talked about with the pension plans. If you had a

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Speaker 2: fantastic year. One of the things you can do they're

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Speaker 2: so flexible, is you can make multiple plan year contributions

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Speaker 2: in one calendar year and get a much much bigger

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Speaker 2: deduction for that year. So suppose you are a salesman

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Speaker 2: or something else. You have big sales, you need a

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Speaker 2: lot of money. What you want to do is you

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Speaker 2: want to get Look, say that was twenty four he said,

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at these taxes. I hate all these taxes.

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Speaker 2: So you set up the pension plans. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: you can have multiple pension plans in the same year.

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Speaker 2: You set up multiple pension plans, and then you make

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Speaker 2: multiple plane near contributions in one calendar year. You get

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Speaker 2: that can'tic deduction against that fantastic year. And it's one

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Speaker 2: of the ways you don't pay taxes on it. See,

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Speaker 2: this stuff really lives.

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Speaker 1: Done it, and then you end up taking it out

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Speaker 1: years down the road when you're paying it a much

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Speaker 1: lower rate. Theoretically, all right, we've got to like two

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Speaker 1: more minutes, Stephen, anything else you want to squeeze in

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Speaker 1: before we let.

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Speaker 2: You go, Yes, before you send your taxes in. You

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Speaker 2: really want to learn as much as you can, either

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Speaker 2: on your own from reading or going to somebody that

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Speaker 2: does this, because most people cheat on their taxes. They

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Speaker 2: cheat themselves by not taking everything to which they're entitled.

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Speaker 2: And you know, there's just so much to the tax law.

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Speaker 2: I know it's really complex, but there's so many benefits

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Speaker 2: for you. So the bottom line is, like so many

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Speaker 2: other things in life, you get out of it what

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Speaker 2: you put into it. Learn about it, or go to

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Speaker 2: somebody that does this for a living, and you can

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Speaker 2: really benefit. You See, there's so much difference in people's taxes.

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Speaker 2: And again my example is the Fortune five hundred. Look

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Speaker 2: at all the money they make. Look at how little,

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Speaker 2: little or nothing pay in taxes. That's not just for

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Speaker 2: the Fortune five hundred. That's for everybody that knows about it.

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Speaker 2: It's there for you. It's alive, it's legal, and that's

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Speaker 2: what I do for a living. And no kidding, this

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Speaker 2: stuff fascinates me and it's so great to be able

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Speaker 2: to legally do this.

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Speaker 1: Stephen moscowitz moscowit is ll P. Longtime Front of the show, Steven,

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Speaker 1: always a pleasure to talk to you. It's always interesting

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Speaker 1: if you want to talk to Stephen one triple a

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Speaker 1: tax deal, one triple a tax deal. Stephen, thanks for

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Speaker 1: the time, appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much. I have a great time, as always.

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Speaker 1: Got it now.

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Speaker 3: Obviously he gets paid to do taxes, so you know

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Speaker 3: you would have an incentive to convince you to have

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Speaker 3: a guy. But I don't doubt that that's true, absolutely true,

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Speaker 3: that the majority of people done their taxes. The cheating

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Speaker 3: is you cheat yourself by not taking.

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Speaker 1: Advantage of everything. Yeah, and this is again this is

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Speaker 1: not a commercial in any way. But and it depends

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Speaker 1: on your financial circumstances, where you are in your life,

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Speaker 1: and one hundred other things, so you know, it's entirely

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Speaker 1: up to you. But our experience Jack and me as

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Speaker 1: individuals and as business partners has been you spend hundreds

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Speaker 1: and save thousands by consulting professionals. And maybe your situation

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Speaker 1: is you'd spend thousands and save tens of thousands. You know,

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Speaker 1: again depending on your life circumstance. But that's been our experience.

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Speaker 3: One of my main takeaways from Noan Steven, and I

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Speaker 3: think he brought this up at a lunch we were

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Speaker 3: at with him one time, is the idea of and

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Speaker 3: it's changed the way I think about things. But like

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Speaker 3: would your I mean a basic question of would you

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Speaker 3: rather get would you rather have be received fifty thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars or eighty thousand dollars? Obviously I'd rather receive the

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Speaker 3: eighty thousand dollars. What are the tax implications? How's the

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Speaker 3: fifty thousand coming to you? How's the eighty thousand coming?

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Speaker 3: Is it coming through income? Did your grandma live it

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Speaker 3: to you? You know? Is it a prime you want?

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Speaker 3: Because there are different tax implications for all these different things,

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Speaker 3: you might be better off with the fifty thousand than

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Speaker 3: the eighty thousand. If it was a gift, then if

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Speaker 3: it was income, blah blah blah, And you always have

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Speaker 3: to look at that.

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Speaker 2: End of it.

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Speaker 1: It should not be that dizzy thing.

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Speaker 3: But it is right. I hope you enjoyed that I did.

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Speaker 3: I always get something out of it. More on the way,

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Speaker 3: stay here, armstrong, Ngetty