1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:20,676 Speaker 1: Pushkin. All right, what do you want to start with? 2 00:00:21,236 --> 00:00:23,636 Speaker 2: We have to start with green, just like if we 3 00:00:23,636 --> 00:00:26,156 Speaker 2: were doing wines would start with whites and then go 4 00:00:26,236 --> 00:00:28,956 Speaker 2: to reds. I don't think we should blow out our 5 00:00:28,996 --> 00:00:32,796 Speaker 2: palettes too early. I mean, do you want to get 6 00:00:32,836 --> 00:00:34,396 Speaker 2: to most of this? Do you have time? 7 00:00:36,836 --> 00:00:36,916 Speaker 3: Not? 8 00:00:37,036 --> 00:00:40,316 Speaker 1: Long ago, a man named Tony Ghebli came to my apartment, 9 00:00:40,796 --> 00:00:44,116 Speaker 1: young guy, dark hair, grew up in New Jersey. He 10 00:00:44,236 --> 00:00:48,076 Speaker 1: runs something called tea Epicure, which does for specialty tea 11 00:00:48,196 --> 00:00:52,196 Speaker 1: what Robert Parker did for wine, analyzes it and rates it. 12 00:00:53,116 --> 00:00:56,236 Speaker 1: Tony had a big backpack with him and carefully unwrapped 13 00:00:56,236 --> 00:00:59,676 Speaker 1: its contents, a thermometer to make sure we didn't overheat 14 00:00:59,716 --> 00:01:02,956 Speaker 1: the water. A mini Chinese teapot called a guy Wan, 15 00:01:03,716 --> 00:01:10,476 Speaker 1: some special Norwegian teacups and tea, six kinds green, yellow, white, Oohlan, 16 00:01:10,836 --> 00:01:15,796 Speaker 1: black and fermented oh and a seventh kinde. We'll get 17 00:01:15,796 --> 00:01:17,796 Speaker 1: to that. So this is called. 18 00:01:17,756 --> 00:01:22,076 Speaker 2: Lubell Luball, and it's from Guang Sea Province, and it 19 00:01:22,276 --> 00:01:24,396 Speaker 2: is this tea was produced in two thousand and nine. 20 00:01:25,076 --> 00:01:26,716 Speaker 1: Do you have to steep from ented tea for a 21 00:01:26,716 --> 00:01:27,196 Speaker 1: long time? 22 00:01:28,156 --> 00:01:33,276 Speaker 2: No? Typically not. I mean it instantly colored. Look at that. 23 00:01:33,916 --> 00:01:38,716 Speaker 1: You call that the liquor. The liquor, yes, And if 24 00:01:38,756 --> 00:01:41,436 Speaker 1: somebody put milk and sugar in his tea, you would 25 00:01:43,436 --> 00:01:45,036 Speaker 1: you would shoot them. 26 00:01:44,836 --> 00:01:48,116 Speaker 2: I do not like tea snops like, I am against 27 00:01:48,156 --> 00:01:49,276 Speaker 2: tea snobbery. 28 00:01:48,836 --> 00:01:51,036 Speaker 1: But I was gonna say, this tea is special. It 29 00:01:51,076 --> 00:01:54,876 Speaker 1: came from this famous collector. You're down to your last 30 00:01:54,916 --> 00:01:57,116 Speaker 1: little bits of it. If I would have walked in 31 00:01:57,596 --> 00:02:02,836 Speaker 1: and pour, like, you know, a big, a big chunk 32 00:02:02,836 --> 00:02:06,716 Speaker 1: of half and half in it and a two two 33 00:02:06,876 --> 00:02:09,676 Speaker 1: sugar cubes, you would you would feel upset. 34 00:02:10,836 --> 00:02:13,916 Speaker 2: I would say, Malcolm, you're not fully appreciating this tea, 35 00:02:13,956 --> 00:02:16,396 Speaker 2: but I respect your preferences. 36 00:02:16,956 --> 00:02:20,996 Speaker 1: Tony inhaled deeply into his teacup, then looked thoughtful. 37 00:02:21,436 --> 00:02:24,076 Speaker 2: All right, I'll let you you both just lift up 38 00:02:24,076 --> 00:02:25,356 Speaker 2: the liden and sniff that. 39 00:02:29,396 --> 00:02:34,676 Speaker 1: Ooh it's I'm getting a little bit of a spina 40 00:02:34,716 --> 00:02:36,636 Speaker 1: gea feel from that. 41 00:02:40,956 --> 00:02:45,436 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, almost like a Swiss chart or something. 42 00:02:45,516 --> 00:02:51,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, never gotten that from a tea before. We had 43 00:02:51,156 --> 00:02:54,356 Speaker 1: had a lot of tea by this point, me my producer, 44 00:02:54,436 --> 00:02:58,156 Speaker 1: Jacob Tony. Tony says it's an actual phenomenon called being 45 00:02:58,236 --> 00:03:01,996 Speaker 1: tea drunk. Jacob and I were definitely tea drunk. Oh 46 00:03:02,036 --> 00:03:04,756 Speaker 1: it is interesting. Okay, tell me Tony. 47 00:03:05,356 --> 00:03:09,356 Speaker 2: There's like a forest leaves, like a you know, a 48 00:03:09,476 --> 00:03:12,476 Speaker 2: mat on the forest floor of brown leaves. I've that 49 00:03:12,556 --> 00:03:18,436 Speaker 2: bit of earthiness with a there's like a roasted carrot 50 00:03:18,436 --> 00:03:20,236 Speaker 2: going on in there. For me, that's the vegetable note 51 00:03:20,276 --> 00:03:23,836 Speaker 2: I'm getting from it. And then a little bit of 52 00:03:23,876 --> 00:03:24,836 Speaker 2: like tire fire. 53 00:03:27,836 --> 00:03:31,676 Speaker 1: That's like that proves you're from Jersey when you drink 54 00:03:31,716 --> 00:03:40,916 Speaker 1: some tea and you're reaching to tire fire. My name 55 00:03:40,956 --> 00:03:44,596 Speaker 1: is Malcolm Bladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast 56 00:03:44,636 --> 00:03:49,676 Speaker 1: about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is a special 57 00:03:49,716 --> 00:03:53,196 Speaker 1: production in honor of America's birthday, the fourth of July. 58 00:03:56,476 --> 00:03:59,636 Speaker 1: It's about the Boston Tea Party, one of the first 59 00:03:59,716 --> 00:04:03,076 Speaker 1: and most critical steps on the path to American independence 60 00:04:03,516 --> 00:04:08,956 Speaker 1: December sixteenth, seventeen seventy three, when dozens of Bostonians dressed 61 00:04:09,276 --> 00:04:13,156 Speaker 1: Mohawk Indians dumped three hundred and forty two chests of 62 00:04:13,196 --> 00:04:17,796 Speaker 1: tea into Boston Harbor. Wait wait, wait, hold on, hold on, 63 00:04:18,756 --> 00:04:21,716 Speaker 1: I know what you're thinking. The Boston Tea Party was 64 00:04:21,756 --> 00:04:25,636 Speaker 1: a protest against British oppression. It was an act of principle. 65 00:04:25,876 --> 00:04:28,556 Speaker 1: The gang that threw the tea overboard called themselves the 66 00:04:28,596 --> 00:04:33,356 Speaker 1: Sons of Liberty. No taxation without representation, blah blah blah. 67 00:04:33,476 --> 00:04:35,996 Speaker 1: We'll get to that, but let's start with a fact 68 00:04:36,236 --> 00:04:39,956 Speaker 1: that is so glaringly obvious that it stuns me that 69 00:04:39,996 --> 00:04:43,156 Speaker 1: so many Americans have overlooked it. It was the Boston 70 00:04:43,556 --> 00:04:48,596 Speaker 1: Tea Party, not the Molasses Party, not the Pewter Mug Party. 71 00:04:49,116 --> 00:04:53,276 Speaker 1: The whole thing was about tea. Wait, so we're gonna 72 00:04:53,276 --> 00:04:57,076 Speaker 1: set the scene, Tony, I want you to be ready. 73 00:04:57,196 --> 00:05:00,556 Speaker 1: It is. It is seventeen seventy. We are in Boston. 74 00:05:00,756 --> 00:05:02,636 Speaker 1: We're on like Newbury Street or I don't know if 75 00:05:02,716 --> 00:05:05,316 Speaker 1: Newbury was still around then. But we are having our 76 00:05:05,956 --> 00:05:09,076 Speaker 1: We're at the home of like, you know, Governor Grove. 77 00:05:10,156 --> 00:05:16,636 Speaker 1: We're having afternoon tea, and he's served up a little Boohee. Boohee, 78 00:05:16,956 --> 00:05:20,556 Speaker 1: the dominant tea of colonial New England shipped in from 79 00:05:20,636 --> 00:05:24,156 Speaker 1: Fujan Province in China from the wu Yee Mountain range. 80 00:05:24,716 --> 00:05:28,116 Speaker 1: Boohee is what the Sons of Liberty dumped overboard on 81 00:05:28,156 --> 00:05:30,476 Speaker 1: the night of the Boston Tea Party. Tony, like you 82 00:05:30,516 --> 00:05:34,276 Speaker 1: to tell us what is that experience for the people 83 00:05:34,396 --> 00:05:39,876 Speaker 1: in Governor Grovener's drawing room at three o'clock as they 84 00:05:39,876 --> 00:05:40,516 Speaker 1: have their boohee. 85 00:05:40,876 --> 00:05:43,516 Speaker 2: So everyone would be talking about the news of the 86 00:05:43,596 --> 00:05:54,956 Speaker 2: day and sharing snacks various sweets and pastries, sweetmeats, preserved fruits, nuts, etc. Yeah, 87 00:05:55,476 --> 00:05:59,076 Speaker 2: and sipping tea multiple cups of it. 88 00:05:59,516 --> 00:06:00,436 Speaker 1: Tell me about boohee. 89 00:06:02,716 --> 00:06:06,756 Speaker 2: This particular boohie is very heavy on the smoke. I 90 00:06:06,876 --> 00:06:09,476 Speaker 2: do get in aroma of tea, though under that smoke, 91 00:06:10,076 --> 00:06:12,676 Speaker 2: now that it's been steeped, I think I needed that 92 00:06:13,756 --> 00:06:15,676 Speaker 2: water to hit it that I wasn't getting in the 93 00:06:15,756 --> 00:06:19,196 Speaker 2: dry leaf after steeping it for that long, and I 94 00:06:19,236 --> 00:06:22,036 Speaker 2: put a lot of leaf in there. You saw how 95 00:06:22,076 --> 00:06:25,476 Speaker 2: much I put in this vessel. It's about half fool. 96 00:06:25,876 --> 00:06:28,036 Speaker 2: It's much smoother than I thought it was going to be. 97 00:06:28,156 --> 00:06:29,556 Speaker 2: I thought it was going to be much more bitter 98 00:06:29,636 --> 00:06:34,116 Speaker 2: and astringent and really require some sort of addition of 99 00:06:34,156 --> 00:06:34,916 Speaker 2: milk or sugar. 100 00:06:35,876 --> 00:06:39,076 Speaker 1: Delicious, refreshing, addictive. 101 00:06:40,116 --> 00:06:46,436 Speaker 2: There's a very deep leathery taste. And when I say leathery, 102 00:06:46,516 --> 00:06:49,956 Speaker 2: I mean like that smell of like your mother's purse 103 00:06:50,276 --> 00:07:00,436 Speaker 2: or something, a very earthy leathery, smell like dirty almost. 104 00:07:01,036 --> 00:07:04,516 Speaker 1: So if you were drinking this Tony in seventy sixty, 105 00:07:04,516 --> 00:07:07,516 Speaker 1: you're putting milk in it? Yeah, Are you putting sugar 106 00:07:07,516 --> 00:07:13,076 Speaker 1: in it? Because they're loading it up with sugar? 107 00:07:13,276 --> 00:07:16,756 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I yeah, back in that time, I would yes, 108 00:07:16,956 --> 00:07:18,516 Speaker 2: if I was colonial Tony. 109 00:07:18,636 --> 00:07:21,076 Speaker 1: Absolutely, colonial Tony drinks this with sugar. I don't know. 110 00:07:21,156 --> 00:07:24,276 Speaker 1: I somehow think colonial Tony even then, has his standards intact. 111 00:07:24,956 --> 00:07:28,036 Speaker 1: I'll tell you this about colonial Tony. He would not 112 00:07:28,116 --> 00:07:30,156 Speaker 1: up put on war paint in the middle of a 113 00:07:30,156 --> 00:07:33,516 Speaker 1: December night and dumped three hundred and forty two chests 114 00:07:33,596 --> 00:07:39,196 Speaker 1: of Boohey into Boston Harbor. If you love tea, if 115 00:07:39,236 --> 00:07:42,996 Speaker 1: you yearned for that deep, leathery taste, fortified by milk 116 00:07:43,076 --> 00:07:48,076 Speaker 1: and sugar, why would you throw it overboard? Well exactly. 117 00:07:48,996 --> 00:07:55,436 Speaker 1: It's for questions like these that we have revisionist history. 118 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:59,996 Speaker 1: You'll remember, I'm sure the history of the American Revolution 119 00:08:00,116 --> 00:08:03,756 Speaker 1: that you were taught in high school. The British were 120 00:08:03,756 --> 00:08:06,236 Speaker 1: spending a lot of money in North America. They had 121 00:08:06,236 --> 00:08:09,316 Speaker 1: a big army defending their colonies against Native American and 122 00:08:09,356 --> 00:08:11,796 Speaker 1: a French. They wanted the colonists to help with at 123 00:08:11,876 --> 00:08:14,356 Speaker 1: least some of that burden, so they imposed a series 124 00:08:14,396 --> 00:08:16,676 Speaker 1: of tariffs and duties over the course of the seventeen 125 00:08:16,756 --> 00:08:21,396 Speaker 1: sixties and early seventeen seventies, the Stamp Act, the Navigation Act, 126 00:08:21,836 --> 00:08:26,956 Speaker 1: and so on. But the colonists object, no taxation without representation. 127 00:08:27,436 --> 00:08:31,316 Speaker 1: They start a boycott of all imported British products, principally tea. 128 00:08:32,236 --> 00:08:35,156 Speaker 1: Because tea is big business in the seventeen sixties, the 129 00:08:35,196 --> 00:08:39,436 Speaker 1: colonists are drinking extraordinary amounts of it oolong soushong, lots 130 00:08:39,476 --> 00:08:43,996 Speaker 1: of green tea, and of course boohee, that deep leathery taste. 131 00:08:45,196 --> 00:08:48,716 Speaker 1: They are addicted to it. In Boston, the boycott is 132 00:08:48,796 --> 00:08:51,556 Speaker 1: led by some of the town's most prominent businessmen, and 133 00:08:51,636 --> 00:08:55,236 Speaker 1: a few years ago a historian named John Tyler wonders, 134 00:08:55,596 --> 00:08:58,236 Speaker 1: who are these merchants leading the fight against British tea? 135 00:08:58,756 --> 00:09:01,916 Speaker 1: What is the nature of their business? So he goes 136 00:09:01,956 --> 00:09:05,116 Speaker 1: to the Boston Athenaeum on Beacon Street, one of the 137 00:09:05,156 --> 00:09:09,036 Speaker 1: oldest independent libraries in the United States, ornate, high ceiling, 138 00:09:09,316 --> 00:09:12,796 Speaker 1: enormous leathered windows, founded in eighteen oh seven, full of 139 00:09:12,876 --> 00:09:16,316 Speaker 1: all sorts of treasures, and Tyler starts digging through old 140 00:09:16,356 --> 00:09:19,316 Speaker 1: insurance records in the Athenaeum archives. I mean, is this 141 00:09:19,396 --> 00:09:21,556 Speaker 1: a bass set of boxes? I mean, what are we 142 00:09:21,596 --> 00:09:22,316 Speaker 1: talking about here? 143 00:09:22,756 --> 00:09:28,516 Speaker 3: We're talking about hundreds of policies that were written during 144 00:09:28,556 --> 00:09:31,836 Speaker 3: that period by a man named Ezekiel Price. 145 00:09:32,156 --> 00:09:36,876 Speaker 1: Tyler is an elegant, man cultivated patrician, just retired after 146 00:09:36,916 --> 00:09:39,796 Speaker 1: thirty six years teaching history at Groton, one of the 147 00:09:39,876 --> 00:09:43,676 Speaker 1: exclusive private boarding schools of New England. His theory is 148 00:09:43,716 --> 00:09:46,316 Speaker 1: that insurance records are a pretty good way of finding 149 00:09:46,356 --> 00:09:50,196 Speaker 1: out what someone's business really is, what they're buying, selling, 150 00:09:50,396 --> 00:09:53,036 Speaker 1: where they're sourcing their goods, Because you may lie to 151 00:09:53,076 --> 00:09:55,836 Speaker 1: the government or your competitors, but you have no reason 152 00:09:55,876 --> 00:09:58,076 Speaker 1: to lie to your insure about what you're up to. 153 00:09:58,596 --> 00:10:01,236 Speaker 1: So when you go in these insurance records, first of all, 154 00:10:01,356 --> 00:10:03,276 Speaker 1: does this mean you're the first historian to have gone 155 00:10:03,276 --> 00:10:04,636 Speaker 1: through the insurance records? 156 00:10:05,116 --> 00:10:06,476 Speaker 3: Yes? Probably Yes. 157 00:10:06,956 --> 00:10:09,916 Speaker 1: As Tyler works his way through Ezekiel price his policies, 158 00:10:10,316 --> 00:10:16,836 Speaker 1: he notices something unusual at the time. If you were 159 00:10:16,836 --> 00:10:19,676 Speaker 1: a colony of the British Crown, you had to import 160 00:10:19,756 --> 00:10:23,396 Speaker 1: all of your products through England on English ships. But 161 00:10:23,476 --> 00:10:25,636 Speaker 1: in Price's records it showed that a lot of the 162 00:10:25,636 --> 00:10:29,116 Speaker 1: cargo coming into Boston hadn't stopped in England at all. 163 00:10:29,956 --> 00:10:33,636 Speaker 1: Other times, the customs records would say one thing, this 164 00:10:33,756 --> 00:10:37,196 Speaker 1: ship has all the right clearances, but the insurance records 165 00:10:37,236 --> 00:10:41,276 Speaker 1: on the same ship would say something completely different. And 166 00:10:41,396 --> 00:10:45,076 Speaker 1: sometimes the premiums were really high, way too high for 167 00:10:45,156 --> 00:10:49,476 Speaker 1: what should have been routine voyages. The patriots of Boston, 168 00:10:49,756 --> 00:10:56,076 Speaker 1: Tyler realizes, are smugglers tea smugglers. Historians had always suspected 169 00:10:56,116 --> 00:10:58,316 Speaker 1: as much because there was a lot of smuggling in 170 00:10:58,356 --> 00:11:03,156 Speaker 1: those days, but Tyler shows that it's everywhere everyone. Some 171 00:11:03,196 --> 00:11:05,796 Speaker 1: of the biggest names in Boston. John Hancock is in 172 00:11:05,836 --> 00:11:08,556 Speaker 1: the middle of it. They're shipping in tea from China 173 00:11:09,196 --> 00:11:13,756 Speaker 1: via Amsterdam and then onto America through some circuitous route. 174 00:11:13,716 --> 00:11:20,836 Speaker 3: You could touch at some remote port in the British Ailese. Oftentimes, 175 00:11:20,836 --> 00:11:23,756 Speaker 3: when they're coming from Amsterdam they go to the Orkney Islands. 176 00:11:24,596 --> 00:11:28,796 Speaker 3: They allege that they have declared their cargo there and 177 00:11:29,276 --> 00:11:34,196 Speaker 3: so therefore it's now legal. They've found some obliging customs 178 00:11:34,236 --> 00:11:38,836 Speaker 3: officer in the Orkneys who's willing to stamp it as okay. 179 00:11:39,316 --> 00:11:41,956 Speaker 1: In a trove of old documents at Harvard business school, 180 00:11:42,436 --> 00:11:46,636 Speaker 1: Tyler stumbled across another gold mine, a list made up 181 00:11:46,636 --> 00:11:50,196 Speaker 1: by a big colonial era shipping company of every bribe 182 00:11:50,236 --> 00:11:53,676 Speaker 1: and ruse they used to get tea into Massachusetts. In 183 00:11:53,716 --> 00:11:57,396 Speaker 1: that case, they landed the cargo in Plymouth, just down 184 00:11:57,436 --> 00:12:02,036 Speaker 1: the coast from Boston. Thomas Hutchinson, the governor of Massachusetts, 185 00:12:02,316 --> 00:12:03,476 Speaker 1: was powerless to stop it. 186 00:12:04,276 --> 00:12:06,756 Speaker 3: They run it ashore there and then bring it in 187 00:12:09,516 --> 00:12:14,316 Speaker 3: into Boston. And there's really no way of telling them. 188 00:12:14,356 --> 00:12:18,396 Speaker 3: The same thing happens if you could import things through 189 00:12:18,476 --> 00:12:22,156 Speaker 3: RhoD Island, where Hutchinson refers to Rhode Island as that 190 00:12:22,316 --> 00:12:28,316 Speaker 3: abandoned little colony still is where there's no regulation at all, 191 00:12:28,436 --> 00:12:34,996 Speaker 3: and therefore it's this porous place where all sorts of 192 00:12:35,036 --> 00:12:36,956 Speaker 3: spuggle goods can trick it in. 193 00:12:37,436 --> 00:12:40,316 Speaker 1: Then came the big boycott of British imports. It was 194 00:12:40,356 --> 00:12:45,036 Speaker 1: called the non importation movement, supposedly a principled stand against 195 00:12:45,036 --> 00:12:49,676 Speaker 1: taxation without representation. But who's behind that many the same 196 00:12:49,716 --> 00:12:53,636 Speaker 1: group of smugglers. And if I'm a smuggler, I'm delighted 197 00:12:53,636 --> 00:12:54,436 Speaker 1: with non importation. 198 00:12:55,556 --> 00:12:58,956 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because you can sell more spuggle tea. 199 00:12:59,316 --> 00:12:59,516 Speaker 4: Yeah. 200 00:13:00,276 --> 00:13:04,436 Speaker 1: So during non importation, the amount of legit British tea 201 00:13:04,516 --> 00:13:07,876 Speaker 1: must be shrinking to almost nothing, correct, so the smugglers 202 00:13:08,036 --> 00:13:10,836 Speaker 1: have free reign at this point. Yes, the British are 203 00:13:10,876 --> 00:13:13,876 Speaker 1: trying to raise money to defend the colonies by taxing 204 00:13:13,916 --> 00:13:17,716 Speaker 1: the tea the colonists drink. But the colonists aren't paying attacks. 205 00:13:18,196 --> 00:13:21,796 Speaker 1: They're all drinking cheaper illegal tea. So the British do 206 00:13:21,876 --> 00:13:24,836 Speaker 1: the logical thing. They passed the Tea Act of seventeen 207 00:13:24,916 --> 00:13:27,916 Speaker 1: seventy three, which cuts the cost of the tea imported 208 00:13:27,956 --> 00:13:32,196 Speaker 1: through proper channels. Now the legal stuff is as affordable 209 00:13:32,276 --> 00:13:35,476 Speaker 1: as the illegal stuff. So what do the Patriots do. 210 00:13:36,236 --> 00:13:40,036 Speaker 1: They dress up as Mohawk Indians, sneak out into Boston 211 00:13:40,116 --> 00:13:43,116 Speaker 1: Harbor and throw three hundred and forty two chests of 212 00:13:43,236 --> 00:13:47,636 Speaker 1: perfectly good Boohey into the water. The Tea Act was 213 00:13:47,676 --> 00:13:50,676 Speaker 1: an attempt to put the smugglers out of business. The 214 00:13:50,676 --> 00:13:56,556 Speaker 1: Boston Tea Party was the smuggler's attempt to stay in business. 215 00:13:58,116 --> 00:14:01,236 Speaker 1: Let me spell it out for you. Underneath the lofty 216 00:14:01,316 --> 00:14:05,916 Speaker 1: rhetoric of the Patriots of New England was a criminal enterprise, 217 00:14:06,116 --> 00:14:10,196 Speaker 1: a vast smuggling operation, illicitly so applying to residents of 218 00:14:10,236 --> 00:14:12,956 Speaker 1: the New World with their drug of choice boohee, that 219 00:14:13,076 --> 00:14:16,436 Speaker 1: deliciously addictive tea varietyl with a dark liquor and a 220 00:14:16,516 --> 00:14:20,636 Speaker 1: deep leathery taste. The foundational myth of the American Republic 221 00:14:20,716 --> 00:14:25,156 Speaker 1: is not righteous, freedom loving citizens rising up against oppression. No, 222 00:14:25,636 --> 00:14:29,996 Speaker 1: it's drug dealers defending their turf. You know why this 223 00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:33,876 Speaker 1: episode is airing July fourth, that day when Americans jump 224 00:14:33,956 --> 00:14:37,156 Speaker 1: up and down and detonate explosives to celebrate their independence 225 00:14:37,196 --> 00:14:41,596 Speaker 1: from Britain. It's airing July fourth because you Americans have 226 00:14:41,636 --> 00:14:44,476 Speaker 1: a problem. The story you tell each other about your 227 00:14:44,556 --> 00:14:49,516 Speaker 1: nation's independence is full of holes. You need a new story. 228 00:14:50,316 --> 00:14:52,796 Speaker 1: So I'm going to do you a favor. I'm going 229 00:14:52,836 --> 00:14:57,276 Speaker 1: to give you one. But first, I'm curious about whether 230 00:14:57,596 --> 00:15:00,316 Speaker 1: in that era, in that sort of those first few 231 00:15:00,396 --> 00:15:05,316 Speaker 1: generations and people are getting to know tea? Yeah, are 232 00:15:05,356 --> 00:15:07,676 Speaker 1: they given instructions about how to make it? Are they 233 00:15:08,116 --> 00:15:10,196 Speaker 1: how are they? Do we know how they're steeping it 234 00:15:10,276 --> 00:15:10,556 Speaker 1: and how. 235 00:15:10,516 --> 00:15:14,396 Speaker 2: They're so One account I read was that someone steeped 236 00:15:14,396 --> 00:15:19,716 Speaker 2: the tea and threw out the liquor and then use 237 00:15:19,756 --> 00:15:21,316 Speaker 2: the leaves and put butter and salt on them and 238 00:15:21,316 --> 00:15:24,436 Speaker 2: eat them as a salad that was in like one 239 00:15:24,476 --> 00:15:27,156 Speaker 2: of the prominent families diaries of the time. 240 00:15:27,396 --> 00:15:30,356 Speaker 1: Really, yeah, have you ever tried that? That tastes good? 241 00:15:31,356 --> 00:15:40,796 Speaker 1: So many questions? All right, I think we need to 242 00:15:40,796 --> 00:15:44,636 Speaker 1: start over take two on the real meaning of the 243 00:15:44,676 --> 00:15:49,716 Speaker 1: American Revolution. Let me introduce you to Francis Iani, an 244 00:15:49,756 --> 00:15:53,676 Speaker 1: academic who had a theory about Americans and their criminal enterprises. 245 00:15:54,436 --> 00:15:59,036 Speaker 1: Although calling Iyani an academic seems a little limiting. 246 00:15:59,156 --> 00:16:01,556 Speaker 5: He decided, I guess this is after we've been there 247 00:16:01,596 --> 00:16:06,076 Speaker 5: about six months. He decided to drive to Nairobi, and 248 00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:08,836 Speaker 5: he it's I think I can't remember the exact eff. 249 00:16:09,116 --> 00:16:11,436 Speaker 5: It might be six seven hundred miles. But back then 250 00:16:11,436 --> 00:16:14,396 Speaker 5: there were places where there literally wasn't a road. There 251 00:16:14,636 --> 00:16:17,156 Speaker 5: were I don't think there was any paved road, and 252 00:16:17,196 --> 00:16:19,436 Speaker 5: you'd be driving along and all of a sudden, the 253 00:16:19,516 --> 00:16:20,196 Speaker 5: road would. 254 00:16:20,036 --> 00:16:24,876 Speaker 1: Just Standjaniani that's Francis Eani's eldest son, talking about how 255 00:16:24,916 --> 00:16:27,476 Speaker 1: his father moved his family to Ethiopia in the early 256 00:16:27,556 --> 00:16:31,596 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties and decided one day to drive to Nairobi. 257 00:16:32,236 --> 00:16:35,596 Speaker 1: All they had was a Volkswagen minibus, which isn't exactly 258 00:16:35,636 --> 00:16:39,516 Speaker 1: built for off road adventures. Back then, people who made 259 00:16:39,556 --> 00:16:42,876 Speaker 1: the journey did it in a convoy. Eanni was like, 260 00:16:43,156 --> 00:16:47,236 Speaker 1: why bother, Let's go solo. This is a tangent because 261 00:16:47,316 --> 00:16:49,716 Speaker 1: Francis Iani is one of my favorite people that I've 262 00:16:49,756 --> 00:16:52,556 Speaker 1: never met. We'll get back to Tea, I promise. 263 00:16:53,636 --> 00:16:55,796 Speaker 5: So you'd have to go by dead reckoning to figure 264 00:16:55,796 --> 00:16:58,116 Speaker 5: out where you were to come out on the other side. 265 00:16:58,156 --> 00:17:01,396 Speaker 1: And so you wait a second, your dad has your 266 00:17:01,436 --> 00:17:03,676 Speaker 1: parents have how many children? At this point? I have 267 00:17:03,716 --> 00:17:07,436 Speaker 1: two brothers, so the three of you, you're the eldest. 268 00:17:08,036 --> 00:17:10,756 Speaker 5: I'm the eldest. My brothers are eight and ten years 269 00:17:10,796 --> 00:17:13,316 Speaker 5: younger than I am. At the time there were this 270 00:17:13,436 --> 00:17:16,836 Speaker 5: was nineteen sixty, so they were five and three, And 271 00:17:16,876 --> 00:17:20,436 Speaker 5: of course my mother was true, go ahead, No. 272 00:17:20,436 --> 00:17:24,116 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just imagining this in my mind. So 273 00:17:24,596 --> 00:17:26,836 Speaker 1: a young couple with a twelve year old of five 274 00:17:26,876 --> 00:17:29,156 Speaker 1: year old and a three year old, yeah, set across, 275 00:17:29,156 --> 00:17:34,796 Speaker 1: set out to drive in a Volkswagen minibus from Addis 276 00:17:34,836 --> 00:17:37,676 Speaker 1: to Nairobi in nineteen sixty. Yeah, it's like the most 277 00:17:37,756 --> 00:17:40,636 Speaker 1: hilarious I've ever heard. Francis Eanni ended up as a 278 00:17:40,636 --> 00:17:43,836 Speaker 1: professor at Columbia University. What he was a professor of 279 00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:46,436 Speaker 1: is slightly unclear, since he was the kind of person 280 00:17:46,476 --> 00:17:50,316 Speaker 1: who did whatever he wanted, but some combination of anthropology 281 00:17:50,516 --> 00:17:54,076 Speaker 1: and sociology and stuff Francis Ianni thought was interesting. 282 00:17:56,956 --> 00:17:59,676 Speaker 5: He had two wolves, well, he had several wolves, but 283 00:17:59,756 --> 00:18:01,076 Speaker 5: he had two, and I think. 284 00:18:00,916 --> 00:18:02,676 Speaker 1: I said actual the actual wolf. 285 00:18:02,996 --> 00:18:05,596 Speaker 5: Did I sent you some pictures yesterday? There's one with 286 00:18:05,716 --> 00:18:08,356 Speaker 5: him with the wolves. 287 00:18:08,476 --> 00:18:12,396 Speaker 1: Actually, he called his wolves Romulus and Remus. 288 00:18:12,996 --> 00:18:16,316 Speaker 5: In his apartment in New York, he had a monkey, 289 00:18:17,036 --> 00:18:21,076 Speaker 5: a pet ofsalot, a baby alligator, and it used to 290 00:18:21,116 --> 00:18:24,436 Speaker 5: be a huge point of contention between my parents because 291 00:18:24,676 --> 00:18:27,716 Speaker 5: he would just bring these animals home anyway. 292 00:18:28,076 --> 00:18:31,316 Speaker 1: One day in nineteen sixty four, Eanni is in Washington, DC. 293 00:18:31,916 --> 00:18:34,436 Speaker 1: He's working for the Department of Education at that point, 294 00:18:34,796 --> 00:18:38,116 Speaker 1: doing Francis Eanni kinds of things, and he runs into 295 00:18:38,156 --> 00:18:40,676 Speaker 1: a man in a congressional waiting room who he would 296 00:18:40,716 --> 00:18:45,796 Speaker 1: later call Uncle Phil, Philip Alcamo, a very wealthy, sophisticated 297 00:18:45,796 --> 00:18:50,076 Speaker 1: man in his sixties. They start chatting. Uncle Phil tells 298 00:18:50,156 --> 00:18:53,796 Speaker 1: Eanni that he's a lobbyist representing a group of Italian 299 00:18:53,836 --> 00:18:57,996 Speaker 1: businessmen out of New York. Uncle Phil and Eanni become friends. 300 00:18:58,356 --> 00:19:01,876 Speaker 1: They start spending time together, Uncle Phil introduces him to 301 00:19:01,916 --> 00:19:06,236 Speaker 1: some of his clients, and Ianni realizes, Oh, the group 302 00:19:06,316 --> 00:19:08,956 Speaker 1: of Italian businessmen out of New York that Uncle Phil 303 00:19:08,996 --> 00:19:12,156 Speaker 1: is talking about is actually one of the big mafia families. 304 00:19:14,956 --> 00:19:17,956 Speaker 1: Ianni is the man who drove his family from Ethiopia 305 00:19:17,996 --> 00:19:20,756 Speaker 1: tonight Arobi on a whim, and who later kept wolves, 306 00:19:21,036 --> 00:19:24,956 Speaker 1: ocelots and alligators in his apartment. Ten guesses what he 307 00:19:24,996 --> 00:19:28,956 Speaker 1: did next. He said to Uncle Phil, can I meet 308 00:19:28,996 --> 00:19:31,596 Speaker 1: your mafia clients? In fact, do you think that mind 309 00:19:31,596 --> 00:19:34,356 Speaker 1: if I studied them, like join the family for a 310 00:19:34,356 --> 00:19:39,236 Speaker 1: few years? And because Francis Eanni is Francis Ianni, Uncle 311 00:19:39,236 --> 00:19:45,156 Speaker 1: Phil says, sure. He convinces, he convinces essentially a perfect 312 00:19:45,156 --> 00:19:49,876 Speaker 1: stranger to let him infiltrate essentially, I mean iffilciate. Maybe 313 00:19:49,876 --> 00:19:52,116 Speaker 1: he's too strong a word a crime family. 314 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:54,316 Speaker 5: And I don't know how he did it, but as 315 00:19:54,356 --> 00:19:57,236 Speaker 5: I say, he could talk his way into or out 316 00:19:57,236 --> 00:19:58,156 Speaker 5: of anything. 317 00:19:58,956 --> 00:20:00,796 Speaker 1: And by the way, in the middle of his time 318 00:20:00,876 --> 00:20:03,636 Speaker 1: hanging out with the mafia, Ianni talked his way onto 319 00:20:03,676 --> 00:20:05,996 Speaker 1: the New York City Organized Crime Task Force. 320 00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:08,996 Speaker 5: He became friends with a lot of the police who 321 00:20:09,276 --> 00:20:10,556 Speaker 5: working on this stuff. 322 00:20:10,636 --> 00:20:10,916 Speaker 3: You know. 323 00:20:11,076 --> 00:20:14,476 Speaker 5: He knew a lot of cops in New York, spent 324 00:20:14,556 --> 00:20:17,516 Speaker 5: a lot of time with them, and he would manage 325 00:20:17,556 --> 00:20:20,636 Speaker 5: to talk to both sides and convince both sides he 326 00:20:20,676 --> 00:20:21,716 Speaker 5: was on their side. 327 00:20:23,796 --> 00:20:26,876 Speaker 1: Iani ended up writing a book about his experience, called 328 00:20:27,116 --> 00:20:30,476 Speaker 1: A Family Business. He called the Family he was embedded 329 00:20:30,476 --> 00:20:34,716 Speaker 1: with the Loopolos, a pseudonym. All identifying names in the 330 00:20:34,756 --> 00:20:37,596 Speaker 1: book were changed. Back in the day, there was a 331 00:20:37,636 --> 00:20:41,196 Speaker 1: lot of speculation among mafia experts about who the Lopolos 332 00:20:41,236 --> 00:20:44,316 Speaker 1: really were. After a lot of digging, I'm now convinced 333 00:20:44,356 --> 00:20:46,956 Speaker 1: that it was the Lucases, one of the largest of 334 00:20:46,996 --> 00:20:51,236 Speaker 1: the five major New York crime families. Serious gangsters. They 335 00:20:51,276 --> 00:20:54,316 Speaker 1: had a lock on the trucking unions, particularly those were 336 00:20:54,436 --> 00:20:57,956 Speaker 1: in Kennedy Airport. Iani spent a lot of time out 337 00:20:57,996 --> 00:21:00,636 Speaker 1: on Long Island with the patriarch of the family, a 338 00:21:00,676 --> 00:21:04,236 Speaker 1: man he called Giuseppe. I'm pretty sure that's his pseudonym 339 00:21:04,476 --> 00:21:07,756 Speaker 1: for the legendary mob boss Tommy Lucasey, who came to 340 00:21:07,796 --> 00:21:10,796 Speaker 1: America as a young man in nightnineteen eleven from Palermo. 341 00:21:11,596 --> 00:21:15,636 Speaker 1: A Family Business came out in nineteen seventy two. Nineteen 342 00:21:15,676 --> 00:21:17,636 Speaker 1: seventy two by the Way is the same year that 343 00:21:17,676 --> 00:21:20,876 Speaker 1: the Godfather movie comes out. It's like the high watermark 344 00:21:20,916 --> 00:21:25,156 Speaker 1: of America mafia fascination. But Iani's book is nothing like 345 00:21:25,196 --> 00:21:29,516 Speaker 1: The Godfather. Nobody gets whacked, nobody goes to jail, nobody 346 00:21:29,596 --> 00:21:33,276 Speaker 1: goes to the mattresses, nobody betrays anyone. It's not a 347 00:21:33,276 --> 00:21:39,276 Speaker 1: crime book. It's a book about business. By nineteen seventy, 348 00:21:39,556 --> 00:21:43,356 Speaker 1: Iyani calculated that there were forty two fourth generation members 349 00:21:43,356 --> 00:21:46,276 Speaker 1: of the family, and only four of those forty two 350 00:21:46,636 --> 00:21:52,996 Speaker 1: were still involved in the family's crime businesses. The rest 351 00:21:53,196 --> 00:21:56,556 Speaker 1: were all respectable members of the upper middle class. The 352 00:21:56,636 --> 00:21:59,836 Speaker 1: kids went to fancy colleges. One daughter was married to 353 00:21:59,876 --> 00:22:03,436 Speaker 1: a judge's son, another to a dentist. One was completing 354 00:22:03,476 --> 00:22:06,516 Speaker 1: a master's degree in psychology. Another was a member of 355 00:22:06,516 --> 00:22:09,396 Speaker 1: the English department at a liberal arts college. There were 356 00:22:09,436 --> 00:22:13,316 Speaker 1: several lawyers, a physician, a stockbroker. Uncle Phil's son was 357 00:22:13,316 --> 00:22:16,076 Speaker 1: an accountant who lived on an estate in the posh 358 00:22:16,156 --> 00:22:19,996 Speaker 1: Old Westbury section of Long Island's north shore. His granddaughter 359 00:22:20,316 --> 00:22:23,916 Speaker 1: rode horses and was a show jumper. His grandson was 360 00:22:23,956 --> 00:22:28,116 Speaker 1: an up and coming yachtsman, and Uncle Phil himself lived 361 00:22:28,116 --> 00:22:31,996 Speaker 1: in Manhattan collected art and was a regular at the opera. 362 00:22:32,636 --> 00:22:37,556 Speaker 1: The Lucases had gone legit. Now does that surprise you. 363 00:22:40,916 --> 00:22:44,556 Speaker 1: The signature line in The Godfather is Michael Coleone saying, 364 00:22:45,076 --> 00:22:47,276 Speaker 1: just when I thought I was out, they pulled me 365 00:22:47,356 --> 00:22:50,756 Speaker 1: back in. He wants to go legit and he can't. 366 00:22:51,276 --> 00:22:54,116 Speaker 1: A lot of the mythology around crime says that's the pattern. 367 00:22:54,556 --> 00:22:58,236 Speaker 1: Crime is addictive. Once you're in the underworld, you lose 368 00:22:58,356 --> 00:23:02,196 Speaker 1: contact with the real world, you reject its values. But 369 00:23:02,236 --> 00:23:05,596 Speaker 1: Iyanni's point is that the far more typical trajectory is 370 00:23:05,636 --> 00:23:16,316 Speaker 1: the one he described with the Lucases. Here's another example 371 00:23:16,556 --> 00:23:22,116 Speaker 1: of the lure of going legit. Salvatore Sammy the Bull Gravano, 372 00:23:22,436 --> 00:23:27,196 Speaker 1: notorious mobster underboss of the Gambino family. Here he is 373 00:23:27,236 --> 00:23:30,436 Speaker 1: being interviewed by Diane Sawyer in nineteen ninety seven on 374 00:23:30,516 --> 00:23:31,716 Speaker 1: ABC Primetime. 375 00:23:32,076 --> 00:23:34,116 Speaker 5: Look over the list of the murders you were involved in? 376 00:23:34,196 --> 00:23:35,156 Speaker 5: Are there? 377 00:23:35,196 --> 00:23:42,596 Speaker 2: How many nineteen serial killers don't have? Nineteen? Way worse 378 00:23:42,636 --> 00:23:43,236 Speaker 2: than them. 379 00:23:43,436 --> 00:23:47,156 Speaker 1: Gravano is totally matter of fact. You're half expecting him 380 00:23:47,356 --> 00:23:50,916 Speaker 1: to count off all nineteen one by one on his fingers. 381 00:23:51,436 --> 00:23:54,556 Speaker 1: Diane Sayer does the full double take then comes back 382 00:23:54,596 --> 00:23:56,916 Speaker 1: at him again. One of the people on that list 383 00:23:57,156 --> 00:24:00,516 Speaker 1: was Gravano's brother in law. How could you face yourself? 384 00:24:00,556 --> 00:24:04,036 Speaker 1: She asks, how could you face your wife? Did you say? 385 00:24:04,076 --> 00:24:05,276 Speaker 1: What have I become? 386 00:24:06,036 --> 00:24:09,116 Speaker 5: What with that blood on my hand? 387 00:24:09,396 --> 00:24:12,476 Speaker 4: What am I? 388 00:24:12,476 --> 00:24:13,116 Speaker 2: I'm a gangster? 389 00:24:14,396 --> 00:24:15,636 Speaker 3: That's exactly what I am. 390 00:24:15,836 --> 00:24:19,716 Speaker 1: Gravano's not just a gangster. He's on TV admitting he's 391 00:24:19,756 --> 00:24:23,636 Speaker 1: a gangster. Gravano had ratted out his boss, John Gotti 392 00:24:23,996 --> 00:24:27,156 Speaker 1: in exchange for immunity for his crimes. He went into 393 00:24:27,196 --> 00:24:31,316 Speaker 1: witness protection, but then he left witness protection and started 394 00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:34,436 Speaker 1: up a drug trafficking ring with his wife, his daughter Karen, 395 00:24:34,476 --> 00:24:37,996 Speaker 1: and his son. They grossed five hundred thousand dollars a 396 00:24:38,036 --> 00:24:41,356 Speaker 1: week before it all came crashing down. In the middle 397 00:24:41,396 --> 00:24:44,556 Speaker 1: of this, his daughter Karen meets a man named David Seabrook. 398 00:24:45,396 --> 00:24:47,996 Speaker 6: So it was ninety six. I was at the China Club. 399 00:24:49,356 --> 00:24:52,316 Speaker 1: This is Seabrook remembering the moment in an interview on 400 00:24:52,356 --> 00:24:54,396 Speaker 1: the New York radio station Hot ninety seven. 401 00:24:55,156 --> 00:24:57,276 Speaker 6: Was at the China Club when it was popping, and 402 00:24:57,556 --> 00:25:01,676 Speaker 6: I've seen Karen, Jennifer Graziano, Drita and a couple of 403 00:25:01,676 --> 00:25:03,956 Speaker 6: her friends. So you know, Karen was giving me the eye. 404 00:25:03,996 --> 00:25:06,036 Speaker 6: Jennifer Number was looking at you know, Jay or whatever, 405 00:25:06,116 --> 00:25:07,156 Speaker 6: reckless eyeball me. 406 00:25:07,396 --> 00:25:10,356 Speaker 1: Karen Seabrook is a convicted felon. 407 00:25:10,636 --> 00:25:14,876 Speaker 6: Well, my first case I was fourteen attempted murder. So 408 00:25:15,116 --> 00:25:17,116 Speaker 6: back and forth from Regazzana and juvenile sis from New 409 00:25:17,156 --> 00:25:18,876 Speaker 6: York State Division for Youth, and then I finally went 410 00:25:18,916 --> 00:25:20,756 Speaker 6: to prison in eighty seven. I was nineteen. I came 411 00:25:20,756 --> 00:25:22,916 Speaker 6: home as twenty six. I went back I was thirty two. 412 00:25:22,956 --> 00:25:25,116 Speaker 6: I came on as forty one. 413 00:25:25,436 --> 00:25:26,236 Speaker 2: Lord have mercy. 414 00:25:26,676 --> 00:25:30,396 Speaker 1: Seabrook and Karen Gravano get engaged, have a daughter together 415 00:25:30,516 --> 00:25:34,276 Speaker 1: named Karina, but before they can get married, David gets 416 00:25:34,316 --> 00:25:36,996 Speaker 1: sent away in the last of those convictions for a 417 00:25:37,076 --> 00:25:40,516 Speaker 1: drug dealing operation with his baby mama's father, Sammy the 418 00:25:40,516 --> 00:25:46,956 Speaker 1: Bull Gravano. This is a serious crime family, except they 419 00:25:46,996 --> 00:25:50,476 Speaker 1: all want to go to legit. Karen Gravano got probation 420 00:25:50,556 --> 00:25:53,076 Speaker 1: on the drug charge and ended up on the VH 421 00:25:53,116 --> 00:25:56,116 Speaker 1: one reality show Mob Wives, where Sammy the Bull got 422 00:25:56,156 --> 00:25:57,476 Speaker 1: to play doting granddad. 423 00:25:57,876 --> 00:26:00,076 Speaker 7: And you know, even my father's very honest with the kids, 424 00:26:00,316 --> 00:26:03,316 Speaker 7: and it's like, don't be like me, be better than me. 425 00:26:03,476 --> 00:26:06,716 Speaker 7: Learn from me. You know, my my nephew is great 426 00:26:06,756 --> 00:26:09,356 Speaker 7: in baseball. My father's like every day go to you know, 427 00:26:09,436 --> 00:26:11,876 Speaker 7: be a gangster. In another way, I whacked people. You 428 00:26:11,876 --> 00:26:12,636 Speaker 7: can whack balls. 429 00:26:14,516 --> 00:26:17,636 Speaker 1: My wives ran for six seasons. Karen gave up a 430 00:26:17,676 --> 00:26:21,836 Speaker 1: thriving career as a drug dealer for reality TV. David 431 00:26:21,876 --> 00:26:25,516 Speaker 1: Seabrook meanwhile, got a bachelor's degree in prison and finished 432 00:26:25,516 --> 00:26:28,756 Speaker 1: a business degree after his sentence. Then found a company 433 00:26:28,796 --> 00:26:31,436 Speaker 1: that would hire him despite five felony convictions. 434 00:26:31,796 --> 00:26:34,276 Speaker 6: Mind you, I started at the bottom. Well, lo and behold. 435 00:26:34,476 --> 00:26:37,316 Speaker 6: I run the company now sixty employees. I'm the quality manager. 436 00:26:38,116 --> 00:26:40,116 Speaker 6: So and we're looking to expand to about one hundred 437 00:26:40,156 --> 00:26:42,516 Speaker 6: twenty employees within the next six months. So, I mean, 438 00:26:43,516 --> 00:26:46,956 Speaker 6: in my opinion, that's a success story. In my opinion, considering, 439 00:26:47,316 --> 00:26:49,556 Speaker 6: I think it's a I don't think. Yeah, I don't 440 00:26:49,556 --> 00:26:51,196 Speaker 6: think anybody would ever question whether or not you. 441 00:26:51,956 --> 00:26:56,356 Speaker 1: So, how long would the Gravano's actually a crime family. Well, 442 00:26:56,716 --> 00:27:00,396 Speaker 1: Sammy the Boll's parents were dressmakers in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. They 443 00:27:00,436 --> 00:27:03,916 Speaker 1: were legit. Sammy went bad as a teenager and stayed 444 00:27:03,916 --> 00:27:07,836 Speaker 1: bad for his whole life. That's one generation. Then came 445 00:27:07,956 --> 00:27:10,676 Speaker 1: Karen and David, but they were only crooked until they 446 00:27:10,676 --> 00:27:13,996 Speaker 1: saw middle age approaching. It's one and a half generations. 447 00:27:14,476 --> 00:27:16,316 Speaker 1: That's it. It stops there. 448 00:27:17,076 --> 00:27:18,836 Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to stay on Staten Island. 449 00:27:19,116 --> 00:27:21,876 Speaker 1: Karen and Davids's daughter, Karina, wants nothing to do with 450 00:27:21,916 --> 00:27:22,716 Speaker 1: the crooked life. 451 00:27:22,916 --> 00:27:25,276 Speaker 2: I have so much bigger dreams and bigger plans that 452 00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:27,996 Speaker 2: I have to keep my head straight and I want 453 00:27:27,996 --> 00:27:29,356 Speaker 2: to break the pattern of my family. 454 00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:33,756 Speaker 1: Karina was actually briefly on a reality show herself made 455 00:27:33,756 --> 00:27:37,116 Speaker 1: in Staten Island. In the first episode, she takes a 456 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:38,236 Speaker 1: call from her grandfather. 457 00:27:39,236 --> 00:27:40,676 Speaker 7: When you go to college, where you're going to go, 458 00:27:40,716 --> 00:27:41,916 Speaker 7: it's going to stay in New York. 459 00:27:42,236 --> 00:27:43,756 Speaker 1: Send me the bull has been out of prison on 460 00:27:43,796 --> 00:27:45,836 Speaker 1: the drug trafficking wrap for two years. 461 00:27:46,196 --> 00:27:48,276 Speaker 7: You never know what can happen for me on the 462 00:27:48,316 --> 00:27:48,756 Speaker 7: East Coast. 463 00:27:48,756 --> 00:27:50,916 Speaker 6: I could do one this. You're at an age now 464 00:27:50,996 --> 00:27:53,836 Speaker 6: that you know you've got to look at possible mistakes 465 00:27:54,076 --> 00:27:55,676 Speaker 6: that change your whole future. 466 00:27:55,756 --> 00:27:57,676 Speaker 7: No, you're right, I know in New York you could 467 00:27:57,676 --> 00:27:59,396 Speaker 7: get on the road track really easy. 468 00:28:00,396 --> 00:28:04,396 Speaker 1: This was the great insight of Francis Eanni's work. Organized 469 00:28:04,436 --> 00:28:07,396 Speaker 1: crime is not what people do when they have rejected 470 00:28:07,436 --> 00:28:11,796 Speaker 1: the American dream. It's the opposite. People like the Lukeses 471 00:28:11,836 --> 00:28:15,836 Speaker 1: and the Gravano's desperately believed in the American dream, but 472 00:28:15,916 --> 00:28:20,316 Speaker 1: they felt marginalized, locked out, so they took a temporary detour. 473 00:28:21,196 --> 00:28:24,436 Speaker 1: There's even a wonderful phrase coined by the sociologist James 474 00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:30,236 Speaker 1: O'Kaine for that temporary detour, the crooked ladder. You climb 475 00:28:30,316 --> 00:28:32,916 Speaker 1: the crooked ladder until you get high enough to get 476 00:28:32,916 --> 00:28:34,316 Speaker 1: to the straight part of the ladder. 477 00:28:34,836 --> 00:28:37,956 Speaker 4: The greatest example of it was he was talking to 478 00:28:39,236 --> 00:28:41,956 Speaker 4: Sandra Lanski, Mayor Lansky's order. 479 00:28:42,236 --> 00:28:44,916 Speaker 1: This is Nick Poleggi, the mob expert who wrote the 480 00:28:44,916 --> 00:28:48,676 Speaker 1: book on which the movie Goodfellows was based. Mayor Lansky 481 00:28:48,756 --> 00:28:51,836 Speaker 1: was a legend in organized crime, and Pelegi asked Mayor 482 00:28:51,916 --> 00:28:55,236 Speaker 1: Lansky's daughter Sandra about her dad's happiest moment. 483 00:28:55,836 --> 00:28:58,996 Speaker 4: She said, we drove up to West Point to see 484 00:28:59,036 --> 00:29:03,436 Speaker 4: my brother Paul graduate from West Point. Now this had 485 00:29:03,476 --> 00:29:06,476 Speaker 4: to be like the fifties, but Meyer Lansky was about 486 00:29:06,516 --> 00:29:07,516 Speaker 4: as famous. 487 00:29:07,116 --> 00:29:07,836 Speaker 1: As you can get. 488 00:29:08,036 --> 00:29:10,196 Speaker 4: I mean, that's the world the worst bad guy. And 489 00:29:10,236 --> 00:29:12,956 Speaker 4: she said, I looked over and my father was crying, 490 00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:16,956 Speaker 4: Oh my god. His son was graduating from West Point. 491 00:29:16,996 --> 00:29:19,756 Speaker 4: He was so, this is Meyer Lansky in the middle 492 00:29:19,796 --> 00:29:22,076 Speaker 4: of West Point with all those guys throwing up their 493 00:29:22,076 --> 00:29:25,556 Speaker 4: gloves crime. It was so he was so happy. And 494 00:29:25,556 --> 00:29:28,996 Speaker 4: so when Paul, the son, Paul came over, everybody hugged 495 00:29:28,996 --> 00:29:31,476 Speaker 4: and kissed Meyer. She said, my father reached in his 496 00:29:31,556 --> 00:29:35,036 Speaker 4: pocket and gave Paul the keys to a brand new 497 00:29:35,236 --> 00:29:38,396 Speaker 4: fair Lane convertible, and Paul would not take it, gave 498 00:29:38,436 --> 00:29:40,796 Speaker 4: him the keys back, Sokapa. I know he would not 499 00:29:40,876 --> 00:29:44,036 Speaker 4: take the car because he knew what the car came from. 500 00:29:44,316 --> 00:29:49,196 Speaker 1: The Lanski's were a one generation crime family. So what 501 00:29:49,276 --> 00:29:53,316 Speaker 1: are the sons of Liberty back in the seventeen seventies. Well, 502 00:29:53,796 --> 00:29:57,516 Speaker 1: the criminals, there's no question about that. During the non 503 00:29:57,596 --> 00:30:01,636 Speaker 1: importation movement in particular, they get very nasty with anyone 504 00:30:01,676 --> 00:30:07,796 Speaker 1: who dares to defy them. John Tyler lays it all out, intimidation, blackmail, violence. 505 00:30:08,316 --> 00:30:12,076 Speaker 1: When someone fies them, they retaliate with hot tar and feathers. 506 00:30:12,516 --> 00:30:16,916 Speaker 3: It's interesting that in American history textbooks, turing feathering comes 507 00:30:16,956 --> 00:30:19,436 Speaker 3: out of some sort of cute little thing the patriots do. 508 00:30:19,556 --> 00:30:19,956 Speaker 2: But it's a. 509 00:30:19,996 --> 00:30:26,236 Speaker 3: Really hideous thing to have hot tar poured all over you, 510 00:30:25,316 --> 00:30:30,356 Speaker 3: and they'd have second or third degree burns as a result. 511 00:30:30,516 --> 00:30:32,196 Speaker 3: You'll be scarf for a life and then have to 512 00:30:32,316 --> 00:30:35,716 Speaker 3: have this tar removed from your skin, from your hair 513 00:30:35,876 --> 00:30:39,676 Speaker 3: from it. I mean, it was a hideous thing to do, 514 00:30:39,796 --> 00:30:43,076 Speaker 3: to say nothinking of these people were terrified of their 515 00:30:43,116 --> 00:30:45,716 Speaker 3: lives when the mob got hold of them. 516 00:30:45,756 --> 00:30:49,916 Speaker 1: Yeah, the mob. That's where the mob came from, the 517 00:30:49,916 --> 00:30:54,596 Speaker 1: streets of colonial Boston. But if they are mobsters, they 518 00:30:54,636 --> 00:30:57,476 Speaker 1: are mobsters in the same sense as the Lucases and 519 00:30:57,516 --> 00:31:01,156 Speaker 1: the Gravano's and the Lanskis, because the minute they can 520 00:31:01,276 --> 00:31:04,716 Speaker 1: go straight, they do. I mean, what's the signing of 521 00:31:04,756 --> 00:31:08,156 Speaker 1: the Declaration of Independence? It's a bunch of criminals dressing 522 00:31:08,276 --> 00:31:11,236 Speaker 1: up in wigs and front coats and rebranding themselves as 523 00:31:11,236 --> 00:31:16,076 Speaker 1: the founding fathers. Isn't this the real lesson of the 524 00:31:16,076 --> 00:31:19,996 Speaker 1: great American experiment, that the promise of the American dream 525 00:31:20,116 --> 00:31:24,076 Speaker 1: is so powerful, so enthralling, that even the most hardened 526 00:31:24,116 --> 00:31:27,796 Speaker 1: criminals want nothing more than to climb the ladder to respectability. 527 00:31:29,076 --> 00:31:31,276 Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, after the birth of the 528 00:31:31,276 --> 00:31:34,436 Speaker 1: American Republic, what do you think the newly formed Congress 529 00:31:34,436 --> 00:31:38,236 Speaker 1: and State governments did with imported tea. They taxed it 530 00:31:38,876 --> 00:31:42,756 Speaker 1: higher than before, because what looks like oppression when you're 531 00:31:42,756 --> 00:31:46,556 Speaker 1: climbing the crooked ladder looks totally legitimate once you're on 532 00:31:46,556 --> 00:31:52,156 Speaker 1: the straight and narrow. Here is my suggestion for July fourth. 533 00:31:52,756 --> 00:31:55,676 Speaker 1: Enough with the fireworks and the parades in lot of 534 00:31:55,676 --> 00:31:59,196 Speaker 1: everything we've just heard, that would be a little unseemly. 535 00:31:59,676 --> 00:32:01,836 Speaker 1: Do they have a big holiday in Miami to celebrate 536 00:32:01,876 --> 00:32:05,276 Speaker 1: the anniversary of the first cocaine shipment from Columbia, No, 537 00:32:05,396 --> 00:32:09,916 Speaker 1: they don't. And the whole beer by the barbecue situation. Personally, 538 00:32:10,316 --> 00:32:12,796 Speaker 1: I would rethink that too. If you're going to be 539 00:32:12,876 --> 00:32:16,196 Speaker 1: drinking anything this July fourth, it should be tea. 540 00:32:20,676 --> 00:32:20,756 Speaker 5: Me. 541 00:32:21,276 --> 00:32:24,396 Speaker 1: I'm thinking of some Lapsang Sushan, which is a super 542 00:32:24,436 --> 00:32:27,436 Speaker 1: smoky black tea that I love, or at least I 543 00:32:27,516 --> 00:32:30,876 Speaker 1: did until I talked to Tony Gebli about this and 544 00:32:30,916 --> 00:32:34,836 Speaker 1: he said, I'm quoting. Hopefully I can change that notion 545 00:32:34,916 --> 00:32:38,116 Speaker 1: of yours. What's your You have a you have an 546 00:32:38,116 --> 00:32:41,316 Speaker 1: issue with smoky With smoky teas. 547 00:32:41,836 --> 00:32:45,116 Speaker 2: An issue, I don't know if it's an issue you. 548 00:32:45,116 --> 00:32:46,636 Speaker 1: You gave me that look when I said I like 549 00:32:46,676 --> 00:32:47,996 Speaker 1: lap saying, and then I'll. 550 00:32:47,836 --> 00:32:52,476 Speaker 2: Be frank with you. There's a real like bro thing 551 00:32:52,596 --> 00:32:55,236 Speaker 2: about Lapsang sush going on in especially tea world right 552 00:32:55,236 --> 00:32:57,076 Speaker 2: now because they know it. 553 00:32:57,116 --> 00:32:58,036 Speaker 4: But you are a T bro. 554 00:32:58,236 --> 00:33:00,556 Speaker 2: You're a t bro. That's what I'm That's what I'm saying. 555 00:33:00,716 --> 00:33:02,996 Speaker 1: You mean it's like for it's like the it's the 556 00:33:03,036 --> 00:33:03,756 Speaker 1: macho choice. 557 00:33:03,796 --> 00:33:05,396 Speaker 2: Is that what you mean? It's the macho choice? 558 00:33:05,436 --> 00:33:05,636 Speaker 6: Oh? 559 00:33:05,676 --> 00:33:08,396 Speaker 2: I like a smoky you know, like oh, like a 560 00:33:08,436 --> 00:33:12,916 Speaker 2: Scotch Like oh gosh, yeah, like a powerful smoky punch, 561 00:33:13,076 --> 00:33:15,076 Speaker 2: like akin to like I like to grill a lot 562 00:33:15,196 --> 00:33:15,716 Speaker 2: kind of thing. 563 00:33:16,156 --> 00:33:21,196 Speaker 1: Stop right there, Tony, as it happens, I do like 564 00:33:21,276 --> 00:33:24,276 Speaker 1: to grill a lot. And I'll be grilling some steaks 565 00:33:24,316 --> 00:33:27,596 Speaker 1: this July fourth, with a steaming cup of Lapsang soushung 566 00:33:27,676 --> 00:33:30,916 Speaker 1: in my hand as I toast the drugs smugglers, thugs 567 00:33:30,996 --> 00:33:34,716 Speaker 1: and mobsters who saw in the promise of these United 568 00:33:34,756 --> 00:33:39,276 Speaker 1: States a chance to go li chair. Happy Birthday America. 569 00:33:47,556 --> 00:33:51,116 Speaker 1: Vision's History is produced by Meelabel and Jacob Smith with 570 00:33:51,276 --> 00:33:56,396 Speaker 1: Camille Baptista. Our editor is Julia Barton. Lawn Williams is 571 00:33:56,436 --> 00:34:00,596 Speaker 1: our engineer. Fact checking by Beth Johnson. Original music by 572 00:34:00,636 --> 00:34:05,516 Speaker 1: Luis Giera. Special thanks to Carle Migliori, Heather Fame, Maggie Taylor, 573 00:34:05,636 --> 00:34:12,316 Speaker 1: Maya Kanig, and el Hefe. Jacob Iceber. Revision's history is 574 00:34:12,356 --> 00:34:16,756 Speaker 1: brought to you by Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm Battler. 575 00:34:24,356 --> 00:34:27,596 Speaker 2: The reason I said Lapsang Soushong is a bit of 576 00:34:27,676 --> 00:34:37,316 Speaker 2: a bro tea, it's because I feel like males really 577 00:34:37,516 --> 00:34:40,556 Speaker 2: took to that style of tea. And when that happened, 578 00:34:40,556 --> 00:34:43,756 Speaker 2: when when the tea producers saw that happening, the level 579 00:34:43,796 --> 00:34:48,156 Speaker 2: of smoke kept getting more and more extreme, to the 580 00:34:48,156 --> 00:34:52,516 Speaker 2: point where like it's just all smoke. 581 00:34:52,876 --> 00:34:55,156 Speaker 1: It's out of control. But I I'm intrigued by the 582 00:34:55,196 --> 00:34:58,316 Speaker 1: notion that people like me are ruining tea. That's kind 583 00:34:58,316 --> 00:35:01,356 Speaker 1: of that's it. I'm not feeling a little guilty. 584 00:35:01,836 --> 00:35:04,516 Speaker 2: Ruining t I don't want to look like a bad guy, a. 585 00:35:04,596 --> 00:35:07,756 Speaker 1: Part of the bro, A part of the bro over smoking. 586 00:35:09,316 --> 00:35:12,196 Speaker 2: No, it's it's all right. And and and I don't 587 00:35:12,276 --> 00:35:14,716 Speaker 2: know what type of lap thanks to showing you're drinking, 588 00:35:14,756 --> 00:35:15,636 Speaker 2: it could be great. 589 00:35:18,116 --> 00:35:18,516 Speaker 1: Mm hmm.