1 00:00:00,190 --> 00:00:03,370 Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, you come to us on the day 2 00:00:03,430 --> 00:00:04,540 Speaker 1: of our daughter's wedding. 3 00:00:04,550 --> 00:00:06,220 Speaker 2: Kidding. On this the day? 4 00:00:06,420 --> 00:00:07,220 Speaker 3: Yeah. 5 00:00:07,420 --> 00:00:10,260 Speaker 1: On this the day. You bring us no snacks. What's 6 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: going on? We, in 2019, folks, for this classic episode, 7 00:00:15,820 --> 00:00:20,310 Speaker 1: we were astonished to learn that there's an argument for 8 00:00:20,370 --> 00:00:24,250 Speaker 1: the U.S. mafia beginning in New Orleans, not in New 9 00:00:24,290 --> 00:00:25,870 Speaker 1: York City or, of course, Jersey. 10 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,060 Speaker 2: Not going to lie, Ben, I have zero recollection of 11 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,740 Speaker 2: having done this episode. So I'm going to listen along 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,220 Speaker 2: with you folks at home on the edge of my 13 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,580 Speaker 2: seat because I really don't know what the answer to 14 00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:39,779 Speaker 2: the question is. The question being, is this the case? 15 00:00:40,750 --> 00:00:42,250 Speaker 2: And if so, why? 16 00:00:45,670 --> 00:01:13,429 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. You come into 17 00:01:13,470 --> 00:01:16,380 Speaker 1: my house on a day my daughter is to be married. 18 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,020 Speaker 1: You ask me to do murder for money? Welcome to 19 00:01:21,060 --> 00:01:24,100 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thanks so much for tuning in. 20 00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:30,290 Speaker 1: Circumstances find us recording on a lovely, almost 100-degree morning 21 00:01:30,569 --> 00:01:32,270 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Ben. 22 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:34,630 Speaker 2: I know. Ben, was that from Dirty Harry? 23 00:01:35,430 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: That is a quote from Don Vito Corleone in The Godfather. 24 00:01:39,660 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: Ah, yes. Famously portrayed by Clint Eastwood in the film 25 00:01:43,140 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 2: Dirty Harry. 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Working under his famous pseudonym Marlon Brando, which is a 27 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:50,650 Speaker 1: pretty fake name if you think about it. 28 00:01:50,660 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: Got to be. 29 00:01:51,260 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: You know who only uses their real name here in 30 00:01:53,780 --> 00:01:56,810 Speaker 1: the United States? That's our good friend and super producer 31 00:01:56,890 --> 00:01:57,690 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram. 32 00:01:59,330 --> 00:02:00,030 Speaker 2: Vive la bouche. 33 00:02:00,530 --> 00:02:03,230 Speaker 1: Vive la bouche. Wait, wait, wait. Did we say your 34 00:02:03,250 --> 00:02:03,650 Speaker 1: name yet? 35 00:02:03,670 --> 00:02:04,210 Speaker 2: I don't know. 36 00:02:04,670 --> 00:02:05,550 Speaker 1: Okay, well, you're Noel. 37 00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:07,930 Speaker 2: I am Noel. It's true. Noel is my name. 38 00:02:08,090 --> 00:02:08,830 Speaker 1: You established that. 39 00:02:08,970 --> 00:02:10,790 Speaker 2: I am not a member of La Cosa Nostra, but 40 00:02:11,110 --> 00:02:14,169 Speaker 2: I do enjoy a good mob flick from time to time. 41 00:02:14,190 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: I've been rewatching The Sopranos lately. Got my start doing 42 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 2: it on an airplane where it was censored in a 43 00:02:18,750 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: hilarious way. So I watched one through three of season 44 00:02:22,139 --> 00:02:24,780 Speaker 2: one in that fashion. And then once the swears started 45 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,180 Speaker 2: getting back in the mix, it was borderline shocking, Ben, 46 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,580 Speaker 2: let me tell you. These guys really love their Fs 47 00:02:29,620 --> 00:02:29,980 Speaker 2: and Jeffs. 48 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,690 Speaker 1: I still haven't watched Sopranos all the way through. 49 00:02:34,710 --> 00:02:35,350 Speaker 2: Are you kidding me? 50 00:02:35,490 --> 00:02:35,770 Speaker 3: No. 51 00:02:36,190 --> 00:02:37,210 Speaker 2: Wow. It's really good. 52 00:02:37,330 --> 00:02:38,329 Speaker 1: I know how it is. 53 00:02:38,389 --> 00:02:39,889 Speaker 2: I watched the last episode. Yeah, it ends with a 54 00:02:39,930 --> 00:02:41,850 Speaker 2: journey song and a cut to black. And that's not 55 00:02:41,870 --> 00:02:42,230 Speaker 2: a spoiler. 56 00:02:42,310 --> 00:02:44,660 Speaker 1: Well, it can't be a spoiler. We have statutes established 57 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,940 Speaker 1: for this. I think it's past the statute of limitations 58 00:02:47,980 --> 00:02:49,419 Speaker 1: for spoilers. You know, here's the thing about the statute 59 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: of limitations for spoilers. 60 00:02:50,300 --> 00:02:52,740 Speaker 2: Yes, it exists. But are you still being a bit 61 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,340 Speaker 2: of a schmuck if you do it and don't prepare 62 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 2: someone for something that they're enjoying? There's so much content 63 00:02:56,540 --> 00:02:57,180 Speaker 2: out there in the world. 64 00:02:57,540 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: That's weird. Are you saying that you're doing a complete 65 00:02:59,960 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: 180 from your previously passionately completely opposite stance? 66 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,700 Speaker 2: No, listen, Ben. We were talking specifically about the ending 67 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 2: of Lost that I did not even actually spoil. I 68 00:03:11,139 --> 00:03:13,380 Speaker 2: was accused of spoiling it, but the thing I said 69 00:03:13,430 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 2: was not in fact a spoiler at all. 70 00:03:15,260 --> 00:03:18,250 Speaker 1: I believe in that situation, which was probably more than 71 00:03:18,270 --> 00:03:20,030 Speaker 1: a few years ago now. It's been several years. Yeah, 72 00:03:20,110 --> 00:03:24,180 Speaker 1: in that situation. My position is that the creators of 73 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,380 Speaker 1: Lost spoiled the ending more than any audience member could. 74 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 75 00:03:30,340 --> 00:03:33,870 Speaker 1: But I am a huge fan of mafia films, a 76 00:03:33,910 --> 00:03:37,230 Speaker 1: lot of crime films, but mafia films in particular. And 77 00:03:37,430 --> 00:03:40,589 Speaker 1: off air, we were kicking around this idea. Casey, what 78 00:03:40,630 --> 00:03:44,730 Speaker 1: are some of your favorite crime films, specifically organized crime, 79 00:03:45,170 --> 00:03:46,630 Speaker 1: Cosa Nostra, Mafia? 80 00:03:47,340 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 3: Well, Ben, when you asked me about this, my mind 81 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 3: was completely blank because the first thing that jumped to 82 00:03:51,220 --> 00:03:54,780 Speaker 3: my head was Scorsese's Casino, which is far from obscure. 83 00:03:54,860 --> 00:03:58,460 Speaker 3: But it is definitely one of my favorites, along with Goodfellas. But, 84 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: you know, if you want to go a little deeper cut, 85 00:04:01,060 --> 00:04:03,090 Speaker 3: I would say check out one of the films of 86 00:04:03,380 --> 00:04:08,110 Speaker 3: Jean-Pierre Melville, like Le Cirque La Rouge or maybe Bob 87 00:04:08,130 --> 00:04:08,670 Speaker 3: Le Flambeur. 88 00:04:08,910 --> 00:04:11,110 Speaker 2: What about La Samurai? Isn't that a mafia film? Yeah, 89 00:04:11,150 --> 00:04:12,870 Speaker 2: La Samurai, that's Melville as well. That's right. 90 00:04:13,170 --> 00:04:15,990 Speaker 3: And Alain Delon. And yeah, that's a good one as well. 91 00:04:16,230 --> 00:04:16,950 Speaker 1: Casey on the case. 92 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: Film edition. Man, we should do that more often. That'd 93 00:04:21,339 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: be cool. 94 00:04:22,020 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, if it comes up, yeah, just let us know, Casey, 95 00:04:24,380 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: if the spirit moves you. I don't ever want it 96 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,140 Speaker 1: to be something where you feel stressed, like, oh, crap, 97 00:04:29,180 --> 00:04:31,219 Speaker 1: I have to come up with a movie for this episode. 98 00:04:31,540 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 3: Ew. 99 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: Ew. Who cares about homework? What's a crime film you like, Noel? 100 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:38,010 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I watched recently was The French Connection. 101 00:04:38,630 --> 00:04:41,250 Speaker 2: I'd never seen it before. It is a, oh, gosh. 102 00:04:41,430 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 2: William Friedkin. William Friedkin film, famously directed The Exorcist and– 103 00:04:46,930 --> 00:04:48,969 Speaker 2: What else did he direct that was really great? To 104 00:04:48,990 --> 00:04:50,350 Speaker 2: Live and Die in L.A. To Live and Die in L.A., 105 00:04:50,370 --> 00:04:52,350 Speaker 2: which I have not seen. Oh, it's fantastic. He also 106 00:04:52,370 --> 00:04:55,910 Speaker 2: did a movie about, what's it called? Oh, Sorcerer. Sorcerer, 107 00:04:55,990 --> 00:04:57,710 Speaker 2: which has a Tangerine Dream soundtrack that I really like. 108 00:04:57,740 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 2: But the thing that was so cool about French Connection 109 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 2: is it's very naturalistic. It's just very, like, something about 110 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,140 Speaker 2: it makes you feel like you're really in the room. 111 00:05:07,180 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: I think a lot of it was improvised. There's this 112 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,650 Speaker 2: incredible chase sequence where Gene Hackman is chasing a New 113 00:05:13,690 --> 00:05:16,070 Speaker 2: York subway train that's at the portion where it's on 114 00:05:16,089 --> 00:05:19,140 Speaker 2: an elevated track, and he's in this car that he's commandeered, 115 00:05:19,180 --> 00:05:21,540 Speaker 2: and he's driving underneath the track, and it's just such 116 00:05:21,580 --> 00:05:26,700 Speaker 2: a dynamic, cool, badass chase sequence. Really, really frenetic, high-energy film. 117 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: You know, Robert De Niro, I thought, did a good 118 00:05:28,860 --> 00:05:31,970 Speaker 1: job taking the directorial position with A Bronx Tale. Do 119 00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:33,170 Speaker 1: you guys remember that one? 120 00:05:33,470 --> 00:05:34,469 Speaker 3: I never saw that, actually. 121 00:05:34,650 --> 00:05:38,250 Speaker 1: It was pretty good. It triggers some nostalgia for me, 122 00:05:38,290 --> 00:05:40,010 Speaker 1: which may be part of the reason I liked it. 123 00:05:40,710 --> 00:05:43,849 Speaker 1: Another old one that I really enjoyed was The Big Heat. 124 00:05:44,510 --> 00:05:46,310 Speaker 1: That's like 1950s. 125 00:05:46,810 --> 00:05:48,729 Speaker 3: I think The Big Heat is Fritz Lang, actually. He's 126 00:05:48,930 --> 00:05:51,060 Speaker 3: a great German filmmaker that came over to the States 127 00:05:51,310 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 3: after Goebbels offered him the German film industry. 128 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 2: The whole thing? 129 00:05:55,500 --> 00:05:55,700 Speaker 1: Yeah. 130 00:05:56,060 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: On a platter? 131 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ufa. 132 00:05:57,900 --> 00:06:01,580 Speaker 3: And he thought, maybe not, and he fled Germany that night. 133 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,820 Speaker 1: The Big Heat is pretty dark as 50 noirs go, 134 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:10,270 Speaker 1: but it's worth a watch, especially if it's something... that 135 00:06:10,310 --> 00:06:13,070 Speaker 1: you've seen pop up on some film list and you've 136 00:06:13,110 --> 00:06:15,589 Speaker 1: never quite gotten around to. I'd say it's worth a watch. 137 00:06:15,670 --> 00:06:20,950 Speaker 1: It's surprisingly violent for the time. Today's show is about 138 00:06:21,110 --> 00:06:26,990 Speaker 1: organized crime, specifically the mafia, specifically the Italian-American mafia. However, 139 00:06:27,010 --> 00:06:30,020 Speaker 1: it is not about New York City. 140 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,300 Speaker 2: No, it's about another place entirely, Ben, that does have 141 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: a reputation for revelry. It does have a reputation for seediness, 142 00:06:35,980 --> 00:06:38,890 Speaker 2: a certain element. but I've never in my life associated 143 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,740 Speaker 2: it with organized crime until we started looking into this topic. 144 00:06:41,940 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 2: It's a place referred to often as the Big Easy, 145 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,500 Speaker 2: New Orleans, NOLA, or New Orleans, or New Orleans. 146 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,460 Speaker 1: That's correct. Yeah, New Orleans, beautiful city, home to almost 147 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: a parallel branch of American history. You know, one thing 148 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:02,539 Speaker 1: that is confusing to many kids growing up in the 149 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,289 Speaker 1: United States outside of Louisiana is is the concept of 150 00:07:06,410 --> 00:07:12,070 Speaker 1: parishes rather than counties. Because Louisiana has parishes, and that 151 00:07:12,290 --> 00:07:16,770 Speaker 1: is one of the many vestigial traditions carried down from 152 00:07:16,830 --> 00:07:21,340 Speaker 1: its history as a French city, a French territory or region. And, 153 00:07:21,460 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: of course, this city is home to so many amazing 154 00:07:25,180 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: things that are influential not just in the U.S., but 155 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,490 Speaker 1: in the world entire. And it is also home to 156 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:35,910 Speaker 1: the mafia. As we found out, you see, Many of us, 157 00:07:36,310 --> 00:07:40,740 Speaker 1: myself included in the past, would reasonably assume that the mafia, 158 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,739 Speaker 1: the Italian-American mafia specifically, had its roots in the Big Apple, 159 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: New York City, NYC. Because this is where you see 160 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,310 Speaker 1: the godfather being set. This is where the five great 161 00:07:53,410 --> 00:07:57,150 Speaker 1: crime families are based. And this is where millions and 162 00:07:57,210 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: millions of Italian immigrants live. originally came. They first came 163 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,020 Speaker 1: to New York City, Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, the 164 00:08:05,060 --> 00:08:11,620 Speaker 1: whole nine. In reality, though, the first Italian-American mafia came 165 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:16,190 Speaker 1: from New Orleans. That was the first one. And it's 166 00:08:16,270 --> 00:08:20,430 Speaker 1: also the site of the first major, let's say, maybe 167 00:08:20,450 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: not conflict, but mafia incident, mafia murder. 168 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,580 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true, Ben. And the thing is, the actual 169 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: first on the list for immigration from Italy was places 170 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,479 Speaker 2: like Argentina and Brazil, which I would never have really 171 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,380 Speaker 2: considered either because they had similar cultures to what the 172 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,309 Speaker 2: Italian immigrants were used to in their homeland. New Orleans 173 00:08:42,850 --> 00:08:45,290 Speaker 2: became a popular second choice. 174 00:08:46,070 --> 00:08:50,270 Speaker 1: Yeah, this was during the 1800s, mainly because there was 175 00:08:50,309 --> 00:08:54,670 Speaker 1: already so much trade with New Orleans and cities and 176 00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:58,530 Speaker 1: regions in Brazil and Argentina. This is weird because it 177 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:03,220 Speaker 1: already began to trigger some xenophobia amongst people who were 178 00:09:03,340 --> 00:09:07,780 Speaker 1: not Sicilian or not Italian. The New Orleans Times reported 179 00:09:08,179 --> 00:09:13,479 Speaker 1: back in 1869 that parts of the city were overrun with, 180 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:19,660 Speaker 1: get this, quote, well-known and notorious Sicilian murderers, counterfeiters, and 181 00:09:19,940 --> 00:09:23,180 Speaker 1: burglars who in the last month have formed a sort 182 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:27,770 Speaker 1: of general co-partnership or stock company for the plunder and 183 00:09:27,820 --> 00:09:29,140 Speaker 1: disturbance of the city. 184 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,220 Speaker 2: Yikes. That's not the kind of element you want coming 185 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: into your city. 186 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,740 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how you would describe a mafia if 187 00:09:36,780 --> 00:09:38,620 Speaker 1: you had never heard of the mafia before. 188 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,189 Speaker 2: That's true, but this is a time where this is 189 00:09:40,250 --> 00:09:43,250 Speaker 2: very new, right, for the U.S. They didn't know about 190 00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:46,690 Speaker 2: the crime families in Italy. You know, there was no Internet. 191 00:09:46,710 --> 00:09:48,630 Speaker 2: It wasn't, like, super common knowledge. This was, like, a 192 00:09:48,650 --> 00:09:52,220 Speaker 2: very new thing that was kind of invading their community. 193 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:58,710 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. And this sort of tension continues building between the average, 194 00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:02,900 Speaker 1: the squares, the non-squares. citizens, the authorities in New Orleans 195 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,750 Speaker 1: and the mafia. It reaches ahead in what I had 196 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,810 Speaker 1: started to describe this earlier, the first major incident, the 197 00:10:10,830 --> 00:10:15,630 Speaker 1: first murder occurs on October 15th, 1890. There are probably 198 00:10:15,670 --> 00:10:17,330 Speaker 1: other ones, but this is the first one we know about. 199 00:10:17,770 --> 00:10:23,260 Speaker 1: New Orleans Police Superintendent David Hennessy is assassinated, basically, murdered 200 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,300 Speaker 1: execution style. And then public outrage and hysteria breaks. Hundreds 201 00:10:28,340 --> 00:10:32,579 Speaker 1: of Sicilians get arrested. Eventually, 19 are fingered for the crime. 202 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,260 Speaker 1: But then they were acquitted. 203 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and just before that happened, Giuseppe Esposito, who was 204 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: one of the first known Sicilian mafia members to come 205 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: to the United States, he actually came to New York. 206 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,460 Speaker 2: And this is after he and six of his cronies, 207 00:10:48,070 --> 00:10:52,110 Speaker 2: murdered the chancellor and a vice chancellor of a province 208 00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:56,630 Speaker 2: in Sicily in addition to 11 very, very influential and 209 00:10:57,070 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: rich landowners. And he was arrested in New Orleans in 1881. 210 00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:04,250 Speaker 2: And then he was extradited to Italy. And New Orleans 211 00:11:04,290 --> 00:11:06,500 Speaker 2: is becoming a hotbed of this kind of activity. And 212 00:11:06,510 --> 00:11:08,740 Speaker 2: it's sort of starting to bubble over with this incident 213 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: that you're describing, Ben. And it led to some pretty 214 00:11:11,020 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 2: serious consequences, didn't it? 215 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: Yeah. So on October 15th, 1890, David Hennessy is murdered. 19, 216 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,780 Speaker 1: as I said, hundreds of Sicilians arrested, 19 go to trial, 217 00:11:27,830 --> 00:11:30,170 Speaker 1: but they're acquitted. And this makes everyone else in the 218 00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:34,230 Speaker 1: city say someone was bribing them. Someone was scaring the witnesses. 219 00:11:34,530 --> 00:11:37,490 Speaker 1: So the citizens of New Orleans, the squares I mentioned earlier, 220 00:11:37,809 --> 00:11:41,570 Speaker 1: organize a lynch mob and they kill 11 of those 221 00:11:41,570 --> 00:11:44,929 Speaker 1: 19 people who got away. Two of them were hanged. 222 00:11:45,740 --> 00:11:49,059 Speaker 1: Nine of them were shot. and the other eight escaped. 223 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:51,910 Speaker 1: We're not sure what happened to them, but this, along 224 00:11:51,950 --> 00:11:55,370 Speaker 1: with that criminal you're describing, Noel, gives us a very 225 00:11:55,470 --> 00:11:59,590 Speaker 1: different image of New Orleans. You know, we imagine the 226 00:11:59,670 --> 00:12:02,580 Speaker 1: many other problems the city had at the time, but 227 00:12:02,620 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: we don't really think of imported Italian criminal enterprise, you know? 228 00:12:08,860 --> 00:12:13,260 Speaker 1: We know that there has been fairly rich research on this, 229 00:12:13,380 --> 00:12:17,780 Speaker 1: especially by the Sicilian historian, Salvatore Lupo in his history 230 00:12:17,820 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: of the mafia, he talks about how you can trace 231 00:12:22,020 --> 00:12:25,460 Speaker 1: the spread of the mafia in the U.S. directly to 232 00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:30,940 Speaker 1: Sicilian immigration to New Orleans. And by the end of 233 00:12:30,980 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: the 19th century, New Orleans had the largest Sicilian population 234 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: in the U.S., which surprised me. I guess I just 235 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:40,410 Speaker 1: always assumed it would have been New York. 236 00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:41,110 Speaker 3: I would have, too. 237 00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:44,310 Speaker 2: And apparently, as well, Ben, one reason this was the case, 238 00:12:44,670 --> 00:12:48,870 Speaker 2: is the state of Louisiana was working with sugar planters 239 00:12:49,270 --> 00:12:53,110 Speaker 2: to replace slave labor. So that kind of immigration, opening 240 00:12:53,170 --> 00:12:56,350 Speaker 2: up that kind of immigration was part of that effort. 241 00:12:56,770 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: Yes. So they've got booming agricultural business, right? This is 242 00:13:01,020 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: a world-class port. That alone is very attractive to the mafia. 243 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: But if you throw in the disorganized city functions and 244 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,890 Speaker 1: the corrupt administration, boom, boom, boom, we've got a mafia 245 00:13:14,050 --> 00:13:16,819 Speaker 1: moth heading toward an illicit flame. 246 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 2: Very nice image there, Ben. And that flame ended up 247 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,260 Speaker 2: being the French Quarter and Bourbon Street specifically. So when 248 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,140 Speaker 2: you think of Bourbon Street, anyone that's been, that's visited 249 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,260 Speaker 2: New Orleans, you kind of think of it as being 250 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,350 Speaker 2: the trashy kind of touristy spot that's not necessarily where 251 00:13:33,370 --> 00:13:34,930 Speaker 2: you want to hit if you're like kind of going 252 00:13:34,970 --> 00:13:36,830 Speaker 2: for off the beaten path kind of stuff. But the 253 00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:40,290 Speaker 2: original Bourbon Street, what led to that reputation, the original 254 00:13:40,330 --> 00:13:43,310 Speaker 2: Bourbon Street as kind of like, you know, established by 255 00:13:43,370 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 2: some of these these Sicilian mobsters was a just absolute 256 00:13:48,420 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: smorgasbord of things like jazz clubs, speakeasies, restaurants, nudie bars, 257 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,260 Speaker 2: strip clubs, all that kind of stuff. And it was 258 00:13:56,570 --> 00:13:59,710 Speaker 2: all run and operated, or at least largely people were 259 00:13:59,730 --> 00:14:02,530 Speaker 2: getting a cut that were members of this mafia group. 260 00:14:02,809 --> 00:14:07,650 Speaker 1: Yeah, Richard Campanella, the author of Bourbon Street, a history, 261 00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:10,270 Speaker 1: has it this way. I think he's on the same 262 00:14:10,330 --> 00:14:14,450 Speaker 1: page with us here because he says, They didn't necessarily 263 00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:20,230 Speaker 1: control all of Bourbon Street, but they had this behind-the-scenes 264 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:26,420 Speaker 1: influential consortium. You know, imagine it like this. You don't 265 00:14:26,860 --> 00:14:31,580 Speaker 1: own every house of ill repute on Bourbon Street, but 266 00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:35,830 Speaker 1: you do coordinate what they can charge for things. And 267 00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:38,739 Speaker 1: they do pay you a certain percentage and you help 268 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: keep people's turf boundaries clear. 269 00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:42,460 Speaker 2: It's that same thing you see in like a show 270 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,820 Speaker 2: like Sopranos where the mob kind of underbosses or some 271 00:14:46,860 --> 00:14:49,540 Speaker 2: of the, what do they call them? Like enforcers, I guess, 272 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 2: go door to door to businesses collecting, well, collections is 273 00:14:52,540 --> 00:14:54,830 Speaker 2: what they call it. And that means that the mob 274 00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:58,110 Speaker 2: has a hand in offering protection to these businesses as 275 00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:59,989 Speaker 2: long as they're given a cut. So they sort of 276 00:15:00,070 --> 00:15:02,750 Speaker 2: set the tone, I guess, for the kind of businesses 277 00:15:02,770 --> 00:15:05,070 Speaker 2: that are lucrative and that are going to generate enough 278 00:15:05,150 --> 00:15:08,670 Speaker 2: money to keep them paid and keep them happy, right? 279 00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:12,150 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is an interesting way to look at it. 280 00:15:12,150 --> 00:15:15,530 Speaker 1: We've got this quote from Campanella. He's describing the extent 281 00:15:15,570 --> 00:15:17,989 Speaker 1: of Bourbon Street. You know, he says, 13 blocks in 282 00:15:18,010 --> 00:15:21,650 Speaker 1: the quarter, one more block in another place, half is residential, 283 00:15:21,710 --> 00:15:25,530 Speaker 1: half is commercial, a couple hundred businesses. This is where 284 00:15:25,930 --> 00:15:29,770 Speaker 1: he gets to a specific example of mafia involvement. He says, quote, 285 00:15:30,050 --> 00:15:34,430 Speaker 1: you'd have bars, some clubs, a restaurant, and something completely unrelated, 286 00:15:34,510 --> 00:15:36,950 Speaker 1: like an electrical store. And in the back rooms of 287 00:15:37,010 --> 00:15:39,610 Speaker 1: many bars and clubs, you might have a pinball machine 288 00:15:39,650 --> 00:15:42,220 Speaker 1: that really was controlled by the mob. They paid off 289 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,780 Speaker 1: the bartender to make sure only they got the money. 290 00:15:45,140 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: There were these bookmakers, poker machines, illegal gambling. Meanwhile, a 291 00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:52,260 Speaker 1: legitimate bar was up and running, and the bartenders might 292 00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:55,620 Speaker 1: not have anything to do with the mobsters. But make 293 00:15:55,660 --> 00:15:58,340 Speaker 1: no mistake, a number of owners were out and out mobsters. 294 00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:02,660 Speaker 1: So you could have, like, Casey could have, you know, 295 00:16:02,990 --> 00:16:07,470 Speaker 1: Crazy Casey's Crawfish and Jazz. club and it could be 296 00:16:07,550 --> 00:16:10,190 Speaker 1: totally legitimate and on the up and up but there 297 00:16:10,210 --> 00:16:12,790 Speaker 1: could be a back room where people go to gamble 298 00:16:13,390 --> 00:16:15,970 Speaker 1: and it's just sort of like contracted out. 299 00:16:15,790 --> 00:16:19,050 Speaker 2: To the mob yeah and the mobsters get points on 300 00:16:19,090 --> 00:16:22,310 Speaker 2: those poker games those illegal poker games or they're like 301 00:16:22,390 --> 00:16:25,290 Speaker 2: out and out controlled by the mob so for sure 302 00:16:26,030 --> 00:16:27,750 Speaker 2: this is a little bit off topic but really funny 303 00:16:27,790 --> 00:16:29,550 Speaker 2: I was in Brooklyn recently and I went to the 304 00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:31,590 Speaker 2: most Brooklyn establishment I've ever been to in my life 305 00:16:31,810 --> 00:16:36,450 Speaker 2: it was a combination laundromat pinball emporium and bar Probably 306 00:16:36,490 --> 00:16:37,150 Speaker 2: controlled by the mob. 307 00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:38,109 Speaker 1: You think so? 308 00:16:38,190 --> 00:16:38,690 Speaker 2: One would assume. 309 00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: Well, we don't know if it's– we also can't profile mobs. 310 00:16:42,390 --> 00:16:44,420 Speaker 1: We have to be fair to organized crime. It could 311 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: be Irish mob. 312 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:45,980 Speaker 2: That's also true. 313 00:16:46,100 --> 00:16:47,140 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just saying. 314 00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:49,780 Speaker 2: So where does the origin of the word mafia come 315 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: from and mafia versus mob? 316 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:57,530 Speaker 1: Well, if we check the handy-dandy last-minute etymology dive, mafia 317 00:16:57,730 --> 00:17:03,190 Speaker 1: originally derives from a Sicilian adjective mafioso, which roughly translated 318 00:17:03,250 --> 00:17:05,129 Speaker 1: means swagger, boldness. 319 00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:08,030 Speaker 2: Or bravado. Got it. And then the idea of the 320 00:17:08,130 --> 00:17:11,190 Speaker 2: mob refers to literally like a gang, you know, a 321 00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:13,449 Speaker 2: group of individuals that have a common purpose. 322 00:17:13,730 --> 00:17:18,510 Speaker 1: Let's look at that. That's interesting. Mafia versus mob. So 323 00:17:18,770 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: the mafia is going to be Italian because it has 324 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,660 Speaker 1: that Sicilian origin, but the mob can refer to other 325 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,669 Speaker 1: organized groups or organized crime in general. So like corrupt 326 00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:33,410 Speaker 1: teamsters could be a mob. So a mob is not 327 00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:38,850 Speaker 1: necessarily the mafia, but mob is also a synonym or 328 00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:41,970 Speaker 1: nickname for the Italian mafia. Interesting. 329 00:17:42,090 --> 00:17:44,909 Speaker 2: It is interesting. So the mafia would specifically refer to 330 00:17:44,970 --> 00:17:48,210 Speaker 2: this idea of la cosa nostra, which is something we've 331 00:17:48,250 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 2: talked about off mic plenty. Right. 332 00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:54,540 Speaker 1: This thing of ours, omerta is the code. There's a gradient, 333 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,540 Speaker 1: Campanella says, from a proper noun to a common noun. 334 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: So he breaks it down saying there's mafia with a 335 00:18:00,060 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: capital M, and then there's the mob, capital M, and 336 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,010 Speaker 1: then there's just no capital M, mob, and then there's mobsters, 337 00:18:09,490 --> 00:18:12,570 Speaker 1: there's organized crime, and there are all these affiliated parties. 338 00:18:12,609 --> 00:18:16,010 Speaker 1: So he says it's challenging and one must be careful 339 00:18:16,510 --> 00:18:21,310 Speaker 1: about the terminology. And it's interesting because the government of 340 00:18:21,369 --> 00:18:26,420 Speaker 1: Louisiana did not originally settle on mass immigration of Sicilians. 341 00:18:27,020 --> 00:18:30,940 Speaker 1: They apparently tried to recruit people from China. They tried 342 00:18:30,980 --> 00:18:37,030 Speaker 1: to recruit people from Scandinavia, Greece, Portugal, Spanish. But they 343 00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:43,100 Speaker 1: were able to entice Sicilian populations because in post-unification Sicily, 344 00:18:43,540 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: there were a ton of reasons for people to get out. 345 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: Life just wasn't super great. However, as this is a 346 00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:53,430 Speaker 1: history show, We have to admit there is a compelling 347 00:18:53,490 --> 00:18:55,830 Speaker 1: reason that people think of the mafia in New York 348 00:18:55,910 --> 00:18:57,290 Speaker 1: now and not in New Orleans. 349 00:18:57,390 --> 00:18:57,830 Speaker 2: Oh, totally. 350 00:18:58,070 --> 00:19:00,850 Speaker 1: And that's because it's not near as prominent now because, 351 00:19:01,410 --> 00:19:04,570 Speaker 1: you know, we said that those first inklings of problems 352 00:19:04,650 --> 00:19:10,629 Speaker 1: began in the 1800s. By the 1870s, the Matranga crime 353 00:19:10,670 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: family has already been established in New Orleans. They're collecting tributes. 354 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,150 Speaker 1: They're engaging in racketeering, prostitution, extortion, and so on. But 355 00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:21,770 Speaker 1: they're not the only game in town and fighting is 356 00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:25,460 Speaker 1: already breaking out in the 1880s between the crime families. 357 00:19:25,980 --> 00:19:30,580 Speaker 1: They want to see who controls the waterfront, right? And 358 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: we talked, this is ultimately what led to Hennessy's death 359 00:19:35,660 --> 00:19:38,330 Speaker 1: and then later the lynch mob. And it gave the 360 00:19:38,350 --> 00:19:43,110 Speaker 1: mafia a lesson that they never forgot because in Sicily, 361 00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:45,689 Speaker 1: this is a bit of a stereotype, but in Southern 362 00:19:45,790 --> 00:19:50,330 Speaker 1: Italy overall at the time, criminals could Act without. much 363 00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:54,710 Speaker 1: regard for authorities or societies. But now they learned, okay, 364 00:19:54,730 --> 00:19:57,430 Speaker 1: there are limits to what we can get away with here. 365 00:19:57,950 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: And this, a lot of people tell you that this 366 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: is what set the Italian American mafia on its course 367 00:20:06,780 --> 00:20:10,969 Speaker 1: of following strict rules and against targeting law enforcement outside 368 00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:13,750 Speaker 1: of very, very special circumstances. They want to. 369 00:20:13,950 --> 00:20:16,510 Speaker 2: Keep it quiet, right? Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's a 370 00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:19,389 Speaker 2: big deal even in like these crime shows and movies 371 00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 2: when you kill a policeman or somebody that's a member 372 00:20:22,380 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: of law enforcement because that is going to open you 373 00:20:25,460 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: up for retaliation. And ultimately, you want to keep things 374 00:20:28,900 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: as copacetic as possible and as contained as possible so 375 00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:33,939 Speaker 2: you can continue operating. Because at the end of the day, 376 00:20:34,260 --> 00:20:36,610 Speaker 2: it's a business, right? They're not just there to wreak 377 00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:39,820 Speaker 2: mass havoc and terror and like terrorize the community. They 378 00:20:39,859 --> 00:20:42,460 Speaker 2: actually want to kind of be loved a little bit 379 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 2: and revered in some of these communities and have shopkeepers 380 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: feel like they're kind of getting something for their money. 381 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,940 Speaker 2: You know what I mean? When they're paying these collections, sure, 382 00:20:51,980 --> 00:20:53,679 Speaker 2: it's a little bit of a pain. But at the 383 00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:56,420 Speaker 2: end of the day, they're being protected from the enemy, 384 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,260 Speaker 2: from the other crime families or from anyone that would 385 00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: maybe rob them because you're part of the community. 386 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,750 Speaker 1: Right, right. It's almost a parallel branch of society, sort 387 00:21:06,790 --> 00:21:10,370 Speaker 1: of like how the Yakuza will give out aid to 388 00:21:10,430 --> 00:21:16,189 Speaker 1: victims of natural disasters. The mafia will also aid members 389 00:21:16,260 --> 00:21:21,580 Speaker 1: of the community when it feels expedient and advantageous for business. 390 00:21:27,180 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: This is the crazy part, though. So we have all 391 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,250 Speaker 1: these Sicilians in the French Quarter, right? The French Quarter 392 00:21:33,290 --> 00:21:38,950 Speaker 1: is not the biggest quarter. So eventually, say the 1930s 393 00:21:39,010 --> 00:21:42,450 Speaker 1: and 40s, a lot of Sicilians who lived there began 394 00:21:42,570 --> 00:21:45,570 Speaker 1: to move out. And of course, being a Sicilian, it's 395 00:21:45,609 --> 00:21:47,189 Speaker 1: silly that we have to say this, but just to 396 00:21:47,210 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: cover our bases, being a Sicilian American obviously does not 397 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,740 Speaker 1: automatically make you a member of the mob. 398 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: Of course not. 399 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:55,500 Speaker 1: Only the cool ones. 400 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:57,500 Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to be made. 401 00:21:58,100 --> 00:21:59,739 Speaker 1: You have to be a made man. Yeah, you have 402 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,859 Speaker 1: to be made. So it's weird because— during the 20th century, 403 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,220 Speaker 1: the 1900s, it seems like the Sicilian population was becoming 404 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,620 Speaker 1: more and more suburban. And now there are only maybe 405 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,030 Speaker 1: a handful of Sicilian residents or people of Sicilian heritage 406 00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:20,330 Speaker 1: living in the French Quarter. 407 00:22:20,730 --> 00:22:25,409 Speaker 2: That's right. And not only that, probably even fewer made 408 00:22:25,869 --> 00:22:29,510 Speaker 2: men that are living in New Orleans and continuing to 409 00:22:29,550 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 2: do any kind of Cosa Nostra associated business. Because, you know, 410 00:22:33,290 --> 00:22:36,050 Speaker 2: the mafia still exists. It is a thing. You definitely 411 00:22:36,090 --> 00:22:38,250 Speaker 2: don't hear as much about it because it seems like 412 00:22:38,330 --> 00:22:42,869 Speaker 2: because of FBI changes in the way they can prosecute 413 00:22:43,330 --> 00:22:45,689 Speaker 2: organized crime, it's a little bit more difficult to get 414 00:22:45,730 --> 00:22:48,770 Speaker 2: away with it, like the RICO Act and such. But, 415 00:22:48,810 --> 00:22:50,530 Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I'm sure they just kind of 416 00:22:50,550 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: adapted and changed the game a little bit and tried 417 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:54,460 Speaker 2: to stay a little bit more under the radar. 418 00:22:54,740 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: And we do have at least one example, right, of 419 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: a famous Sicilian cop mafioso from New Orleans. 420 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Carlos Marcello kind of became the head 421 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,980 Speaker 2: honcho in New Orleans organized crime. He was born to 422 00:23:12,030 --> 00:23:17,649 Speaker 2: a Sicilian family in Tunisia. His name was Carlo Gero Minacori. 423 00:23:17,670 --> 00:23:21,930 Speaker 1: Oh, and we know him as Carlos Little Man Marcello. 424 00:23:22,190 --> 00:23:24,750 Speaker 2: That's right. And he immigrated directly to Louisiana in 1911, 425 00:23:24,730 --> 00:23:29,170 Speaker 2: and he turned to crime right Before he was even 426 00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:33,929 Speaker 2: a teenager and already began working in the French Quarter, 427 00:23:34,170 --> 00:23:36,629 Speaker 2: which at that point was the city's Little Italy. 428 00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: Right, right. He joined the Matranga family we mentioned earlier. 429 00:23:40,990 --> 00:23:44,219 Speaker 1: They were also known as the Black Hand or Sicilian 430 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: Black Hand. And he, along with the rest of the 431 00:23:47,780 --> 00:23:51,780 Speaker 1: crime family, controlled operations at New Orleans docks. So there 432 00:23:51,820 --> 00:23:56,930 Speaker 1: was smuggling, prostitution, smuggling. drug trafficking, gambling, and then, of course, 433 00:23:57,010 --> 00:23:59,910 Speaker 1: as soon as Prohibition kicks in, you know what that means. 434 00:24:00,010 --> 00:24:00,590 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 435 00:24:00,690 --> 00:24:02,430 Speaker 1: Money, money, money. Absolutely. 436 00:24:02,570 --> 00:24:06,190 Speaker 2: Bootlegging, the secret speakeasies and all that stuff. And that's 437 00:24:06,210 --> 00:24:07,940 Speaker 2: the kind of thing you think about. You can picture 438 00:24:07,980 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 2: in New Orleans during that time. It was like these 439 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,100 Speaker 2: kind of smoky underground lounges with, like, jazz singers and, 440 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,100 Speaker 2: you know, cocktails flowing and all that stuff, right? 441 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,930 Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. And Marcelo sort of has a story that could 442 00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:25,670 Speaker 1: be an episode of its own. You know, he got 443 00:24:25,790 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: into and out of jail. He had been arrested and 444 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: beat raps before. Like, it's surprising. I would be surprised 445 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: if there was not already a film about his life. 446 00:24:38,140 --> 00:24:43,290 Speaker 1: But even today, he is the subject of speculation and 447 00:24:43,330 --> 00:24:46,330 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. And you'll hear that he is one of 448 00:24:46,350 --> 00:24:50,450 Speaker 1: the people who was part of the conversation that led 449 00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:53,889 Speaker 1: to the assassination of President JFK in November of 1963. 450 00:24:53,869 --> 00:24:59,260 Speaker 2: That's right, because Robert Kennedy was a big proponent of 451 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 2: bringing down Marcello because of the fact that he had 452 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,820 Speaker 2: done such a good job of avoiding any kind of 453 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,580 Speaker 2: consequences to his career in organized crime. In fact, I 454 00:25:08,619 --> 00:25:13,260 Speaker 2: don't think it was until the age of like 72 455 00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: that he got convicted of any kind of felonies so 456 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,140 Speaker 2: yeah you're right Ben maybe he gets his own episode 457 00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:20,830 Speaker 2: for sure I love the conspiracy angle and the fact 458 00:25:20,890 --> 00:25:23,430 Speaker 2: that Robert yeah there's Jack Ruby's tied up in all 459 00:25:23,450 --> 00:25:26,070 Speaker 2: of this and Dallas and Lee Harvey Oswald all that 460 00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:29,210 Speaker 2: stuff big central figure in the whole JFK thing but 461 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:30,250 Speaker 2: that is for another. 462 00:25:30,030 --> 00:25:34,179 Speaker 1: Day that is for a another day However, Noel, I 463 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,860 Speaker 1: propose that this counts as our Louisiana episode. 464 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: Oh, it has to. It was definitely about Louisiana, yeah. 465 00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:44,050 Speaker 1: And Louisiana and New Orleans have been, on my mind 466 00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:48,169 Speaker 1: in particular, given the threatening weather that's coming through as 467 00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:52,830 Speaker 1: this podcast is recorded and releases, we want to wish 468 00:25:52,970 --> 00:25:57,340 Speaker 1: everybody out there best of luck. Stay safe, stay dry, 469 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,100 Speaker 1: stay connected, have a plan. I've got some Friends in 470 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,260 Speaker 1: New Orleans who have been keeping me up to date 471 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 1: until just a few days ago, they thought they might 472 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,090 Speaker 1: have to evacuate. Everybody was on the edge of their seat. 473 00:26:08,590 --> 00:26:11,950 Speaker 1: So if you are listening from New Orleans, please say 474 00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:16,210 Speaker 1: hello to your fair metropolis. Love it. Miss it. Always 475 00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:18,540 Speaker 1: want to go check out the city and let us 476 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,479 Speaker 1: know some of your favorite New Orleans stories. You don't 477 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: have to be from there to tell us. It doesn't 478 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: have to be a huge historical moment. What's a good 479 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,300 Speaker 1: time you had in New Orleans? 480 00:26:27,730 --> 00:26:29,570 Speaker 2: I've only been the once, and the weather was terrible 481 00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:31,570 Speaker 2: the whole time. It was rainy and dreary, but I 482 00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 2: loved every second of it. It was so much fun. 483 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:36,460 Speaker 2: I really hope to go back again soon. Yeah, you 484 00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 2: can write us all that stuff at ridiculous at iheartradio.com. 485 00:26:39,780 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 2: You can check us out on our Facebook group, The 486 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 2: Ridiculous Historians, where you can interact with your other members. 487 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,619 Speaker 2: There was a really good one. Somebody posted a meme today. 488 00:26:47,390 --> 00:26:49,169 Speaker 2: It was a very meta meme because it was an 489 00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:51,130 Speaker 2: image of Christopher Columbus and his crew, and it says, 490 00:26:51,550 --> 00:26:53,850 Speaker 2: I don't steal memes. I discover them. 491 00:26:54,109 --> 00:26:57,189 Speaker 1: I saw that one. Yes. You can also find us 492 00:26:57,390 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter. I'm at Ben Bolin HSW on Twitter. 493 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,179 Speaker 1: You can see my various work and non-work adventures on 494 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,540 Speaker 1: Instagram where I am at Ben Bolin. 495 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,900 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really do the Twitter, but you can 496 00:27:09,940 --> 00:27:13,180 Speaker 2: find me on Instagram at HowNowNoelBrown. 497 00:27:13,460 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: Big, big thanks as always to Casey Labouche-Pagram. Big thanks 498 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,659 Speaker 1: to our friend of the show, Christopher Haciotis, who we 499 00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: need to have on. It's been too long. 500 00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:24,859 Speaker 2: It has been too long. These are some of my 501 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,820 Speaker 2: favorite episodes. that we do with Christopher. Thanks to Alex Williams, 502 00:27:27,859 --> 00:27:31,219 Speaker 2: who composed our theme, research associate Gabe Lugier, who's for 503 00:27:31,270 --> 00:27:34,090 Speaker 2: always being a boss. And thanks to you, Ben, for 504 00:27:35,010 --> 00:27:36,950 Speaker 2: not having me whacked yet. 505 00:27:37,390 --> 00:27:40,490 Speaker 1: Oh, merit is the code. I am a legitimate businessman 506 00:27:40,850 --> 00:27:43,550 Speaker 1: working in imports. So I guess the best thing to 507 00:27:43,609 --> 00:27:45,650 Speaker 1: say is not my department, Noel, but you're welcome. 508 00:27:46,430 --> 00:27:56,310 Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from 509 00:27:56,369 --> 00:27:59,260 Speaker 2: iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 510 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,260 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.