WEBVTT - #154 Wrongful Conviction: Junk Science - Footwear Comparison Evidence 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:04.440 It's a clear fall day in America's heartland. You sit 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:08.039 in a chair outside your trailer contently looking out over 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.799 your farm. It's cool and the sun is setting behind 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:16.599 the dense forest that surrounds your property. Everything seems just right. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.239 That evening, your stepdaughter in Net stops by with her boyfriend. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:25.960 You and your wife were pretty upset when Annette told 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.600 you she was moving away from the farm and moving 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.199 in with her boyfriend, Todd and his parents downtown. You 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:34.040 don't want a Nette to be caught up with someone 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.760 from town. All those townies seem to care about his 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.680 church and gossip. You want nothing to do with them, 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:42.839 and they don't seem to want anything to do with you. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.960 But in Nette's already eighteen, she's an adult. You can't 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.760 really control her. You try to act supportive, so you 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.240 nod to Todd and help a Nette pack the last 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.480 of her things into his trunk. You give her a 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.480 hug before she gets into the car with him, and 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.520 you watch as Todd pulls away to drive them back 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:08.280 into town, and you're feeling a little helpless. The next 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.040 day is pretty routine for you. You pick up loads 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.440 of hay to bring to your barn. It's strenuous work. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.679 You work hard all day, you're exhausted, and you go 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:24.080 to bed early. The next morning, the phone rings. It's 0:01:24.120 --> 0:01:29.039 Tod's mother. She says, are nett in Todd with you? 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:29.160 No? 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.520 You say, I thought they were with you. Tod's mother 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.280 becomes frantic. She says, the kids went for a walk 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.360 around four pm yesterday and they never came home last night. 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.600 But there's something else going on there. There's a hint 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.800 of something, a tone of accusation in her voice, like 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.960 she's somehow blaming you. You hang up and call the 0:01:52.000 --> 0:01:56.160 police immediately. You wait all day, hoping to hear something, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:00.960 but there's nothing. You're just waiting and waiting and the 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.960 police finally get back to you in the evening. They 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:09.360 can't find them. One sleepless night bleeds into another, and 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:14.080 then another and another. This is one terrible nightmare for 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:18.080 you and your wife. Ten days go on like this. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:22.840 All you and your wife can do is sit and worry. 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:26.560 You're not eating, you're not sleeping, you don't know what 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.920 to do with yourselves. It's raining outside. When you finally 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:33.960 get a call from an officer, and you can hear 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.079 it in the tone of their voice. This is not 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:40.480 going to be good. The news I have for you 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:43.919 is not going to be easy to hear. He says, 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:49.520 we found Todd in a net in the Hawking River. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.640 Oh my god, you can't stand. Your body is trembling. 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:58.240 You try to restate what the officer just said. You're 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.880 trying to wrap your head around what this means. You 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:06.760 found their bodies, their dead bodies. The officer says, they 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:12.400 didn't find their whole bodies, just their torsos. Their bodies 0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:23.040 have been dismembered. You're completely sick. Officers spend two days 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.400 searching the cornfields between the railroad tracks and the river 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.919 where the torsos were found. They find Todd in a 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:34.240 net's limbs and heads buried in shallow graves. You and 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.800 your wife drive into town to the police station, and 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:40.560 you're taken aback by the attitudes of these cops. When 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.760 you're separated from your wife and pulled into an interrogation room, 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.680 officers tell you to take off your boots, your shirt, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.160 your pants. You sit shivering in your underwear for eight 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.480 and a half hours, and then a detective comes in. 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.840 He sits down right next to you, puts his finger 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.800 in your face and says you did this. We know 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.880 you did this. We found your bootprint down by the riverbank. 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.400 Once we match that boot to the print that was 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.520 left at that riverbank, it'll prove you were there. You 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:20.120 killed your stepdaughter, and then you, sick bastard, you cut 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:25.080 off her arms, her legs, her head. You better confess, 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.320 because I'll tell you right now, it's going to get 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.920 worse for you if you don't. You say, over and 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.520 over and over again, what in the world are you 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.880 talking about. I didn't murder a net I just came 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.800 here to help you find out who did. What is 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.320 this all about. They don't have enough evidence to charge 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.600 you for the murder of a net and Todd, so 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.120 they have to let you go. They impound your car 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.440 so it can be searched for evidence. It's dark and 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.279 cold when they drive you home. They let you and 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.080 your wife out of the car and you're still naked 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.719 except for your underwear. You walk barefoot to your trailer. 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.040 Your toes are totally dumb by the time you get 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:13.760 to the door. Downtown, rumors start to spread. People are 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:17.080 saying this murder must have been some kind of cult ritual, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.360 that it must have been you who did it? The quiet, 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.480 stern stepfather who never says much, never goes to church, 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.520 keeps his family hidden away. Who knows what goes on 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:31.200 at that farm. They didn't like you before, but now 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.520 they're straight a hostile. They cross the street to get 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.919 away from you when they see you coming. It takes 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.680 them a year to build the case against you. Are 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:45.080 they even looking at other suspects. The whispering of your 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.440 name around town grows to a fever pitch. You can 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:57.920 hear their accusations ring in your ears. Murderer, molester. You're 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.400 eventually arrested in charge with the butchering murder of your 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:06.760 stepdaughter and net and her boyfriend Todd. When you finally 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.960 go to court, you do something very out of the ordinary. 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.599 You waive the right to a jury trial. Finding twelve 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:19.000 impartial people in Logan, Ohio really not going to happen. 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:24.479 The newspapers, everyone around town, they all think you're guilty. 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.120 Everyone just wants to feel safe again. They won't be 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:33.040 satisfied until someone is convicted and they are sure that 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.040 person is you. Instead of a jury, you put your 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.039 fate in the hands of a three judge panel. A 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.640 jury might not see it, but three judges they have to. 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.560 It's their job to apply the facts to the law 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.880 without any outside influence from the court of public opinion. 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:55.200 Your lawyer calls to the stand and FBI analyst who 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.120 says the plaster mold of what the prosecution claims is 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:03.039 your bootprint at the riverbank is quote unquote unsuitable. The 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:07.039 analyst says it lacks sufficient detail for meaningful comparison, and 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.360 that it looks more like the footprint of someone who 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.200 is walking barefoot. There is no way to claim your 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:18.640 boots match that print, so you're optimistic. But then the 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:23.040 prosecution calls an anthropology professor to the stand. She says 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.800 she studied footwear impressions of countless samples. Her delivery is 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:33.760 slow and deliberate and really credible. She says, quote, no 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.560 person's footprints are the same as another. They're as unique 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:41.040 as a fingerprint. I've analyzed the wear patterns on the 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.600 inside of the defendant's boot, and I can say with certainty, 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.680 scientific certainty, that the footprint found by the riverbank was 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:56.280 made by the defendant. This sounds unbelievable, but you see 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.400 the judges are nodding along. There's no wather buying. This 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:04.760 is there After a very short deliberation, the judges apparently 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.800 believed the testimony of the prosecution's anthropologist who put you 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.040 right at the scene of the crime. They convict you, 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:18.880 and you are sentenced to death. The story you just 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.200 heard is based on the murders of Annette Cooper Johnston 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:23.480 and Todd Schultz. 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:24.720 Dale. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:29.520 Johnston was wrongfully convicted and sentenced to death in nineteen 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:35.160 eighty four. He was exonerated in nineteen ninety, over twenty 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:40.000 years after the murder. The true killer finally confessed, but 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.720 even then the people in the town of Logan still 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.199 chose to believe that Dale was guilty in one way 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:49.560 or another. On today's episode, we're going to examine how 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:53.520 a supposed footprint put an innocent man on death row. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.880 I'm Josh Dubin civil rights and criminal defense attorney, an 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.800 innocent ambassador to the Innocence Project in New York. Today, 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:10.040 on Wrongful Conviction Junk Science, we examine footwear comparison evidence. 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.800 Even when done correctly, impression analysis of evidence like shoe 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:19.960 prints and tire tracks is purely subjective. Many experts recognize 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:24.600 its limitations, but one so called expert in particular, pushed 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.280 the limits of this forensic discipline to produce horrific outcomes. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.280 It turns out that Dale Johnson wasn't the only innocent 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.199 person to be convicted of a crime based on faulty 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:36.800 footwear comparison evidence. 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.400 The Pacers Foundation is a proud supporter of this episode 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.800 and of the Last Mile organization, which provides business and 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:54.719 tech training to help incarcerated individuals successfully and permanently re 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:58.640 enter the workforce. The Pacers Foundation is committed to improving 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:03.400 the lives of hoosiers across Indiana, supporting organizations dedicated primarily 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:07.000 to helping young people and students. For more information on 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.040 the work of the Pacers Foundation or the Last Mile Program, 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:14.200 visit Pacersfoundation dot org or the Lastmile dot org. 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.760 In nineteen seventy six, archaeologists made one of the most 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:29.600 exciting discoveries of our time. They found footprints dating back 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.600 three point seven million years immortalized in the volcanic ash 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:41.000 in Tanzania, and they looked like human prints. Archaeologists were thrilled. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.240 They thought these footprints could shed some light on when 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:49.559 human beings began walking upright on two feet. Luis Robbins 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.120 was an anthropology professor at the University of North Carolina 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.679 at Greensboro. She too was excited about these footprints and 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:02.240 wanted to know exactly who left them behind. Louise had 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.400 been conducting her own studies in footprint analysis. She started 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.920 collecting footprints from people who were still alive. Five hundred 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:13.680 people put ink onto their feet and then stood on 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.760 a piece of paper. Based on those prints, Louise tried 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:23.079 to find characteristics and feet that were specific to age, sex, stature, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:27.160 and weight, using her own system of measurement. She would 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.760 then compare those characteristics to the footprints found in the caves. 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:36.120 Her conclusion, no two footprints are the same. In fact, 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.480 she thought she could tell a great deal about a 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:43.200 person just by looking at their footprint. Her methods were 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.560 never tested by her peers, nor were they confirmed by 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:50.840 other scientists, but Louise she thought she was onto something. 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.880 She claimed to do something no one else could identify 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:59.920 a person solely through their footprint, and so in nineteen seven, 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.160 when a team of scientists went to excavate the site 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:08.440 in Tanzania where the prehistoric footprints were found, Louise went too. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.320 When she saw the prince. She claimed that one of 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:13.880 them was left by a woman that was five and 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.800 a half months pregnant. Now, other scientists on the expedition 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.800 scratched their heads. It was hard enough to figure out 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.840 if the prints that they were looking at were even 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.720 human at all. No one had ever claimed to know 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.600 the gender of the person that made the print, let 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.880 alone of that person was carrying a child. Then Louise 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:37.680 took a dangerous leap. She positioned herself as a forensic expert, 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:42.240 authoring a book on footprints. She didn't write this book 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.720 with her scientific peers in mind, but she wrote it 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:50.480 for law enforcement and crime labs. Only five pages in 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.280 this book were dedicated to the analysis of actual shoe prints, 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.400 and yet, based on these five pages, Louise claimed that 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.800 she was an expert in this area of forensic science. 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.360 Lawyers began to hire her as an expert witness. They 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.760 told judges that her work was on the cutting edge 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:14.640 of forensic science. Critics of her work called it Cinderella analysis. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.840 After all, she usually made sure that the shoe fit 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.160 when she matched the suspects foot to the shoe Prince 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:25.240 found at a crime scene. In the more than twenty 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.520 cases for which she testified. Twelve people, some of whom 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.640 who have since been proven to be innocent, were sent 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.200 to prison, including Dale Johnston, who was sentenced to death. 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.000 Dale Johnson and his wife Sarah at the time, came 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.599 down to Logan several days after the bodies had been discovered, 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:54.800 and they came to the Logan police department. They wanted 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.080 to be helpful to them, and Dale was immediately taken 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:04.120 up to an interrogation room. His boots, his pants, his 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.400 shirt were all confiscated. So he was sitting there in 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.240 the chair in his underwear and they were bombarding him. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.440 You did it, didn't you? And we know you did it? 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.880 Over and over and over again. He kept saying, no, 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:17.840 I have nothing. I just came. I came into town 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:19.440 to try to help. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.280 Here today is Bill Osinski, a journalist who covered the 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.680 Dale Johnson case for years and wrote a book about 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:31.600 it called Guilty by Popular Demand. So Bill, tell us 0:14:31.600 --> 0:14:34.160 a little bit about yourself and how you started covering 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:34.720 this case. 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.360 For nearly forty years, I was a reporter. I worked 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.280 for eleven different newspapers around the country. I worked for 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.200 the Akron Beacon Journal at that time, which is nearly 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:50.480 two hundred miles away from Logan, Ohio, where the murders 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.160 took place. But in those days, the newspapers valued a 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.960 major story and would make that kind of an investment 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:02.960 in time and resources to over a widely publicized case 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:03.400 like that. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:07.600 So, Bill, you actually went to Logan, Ohio to Coverdale's trial? 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:08.680 What was that like? 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.600 I drove into Logan, which is about thirty five miles 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.360 southeast of Columbus, Ohio, never been there before, and I 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.440 drove in on a January morning, and it was one 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.840 of the coldest days I can remember. The temperatures were 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:28.360 well below zero. And I went to the center of 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.720 the little town and found the courthouse. And here, you know, 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.080 eight o'clock on a weekday morning, there was a line 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.560 outside the courthouse. People were standing in that below zero 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.000 cold waiting for a chance to get in to hear 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:48.440 all this salacious details of this horrific murder of a 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:54.080 teenage couple who were found dismembered, parts of their bodies 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.800 buried in a cornfield near the Hawking River in Logan, Ohio. 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:02.080 Wow, this is a really brutal crime. I mean, you 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.680 have body parts buried in fields, and the prosecutors claimed 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:11.680 that Dale Johnson committed these murderers, and putting aside what 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.640 his motive would have been, how do they claim he 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.960 committed the murderers. 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:22.120 The prosecutor alleged in his scenario that Dale Johnston had 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.760 kidnapped these two kids in downtown Logan, made a stop 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.440 on his way home at a doctor's office and drove 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.000 him out to his trailer, where they got into an 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.800 argument about a little used car that the parents were 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:39.760 supposed to have given a net but hadn't yet, And 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:45.240 out of that argument, Dale went into a jealous fit 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.360 and pulled out a gun which they never found, and 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:53.720 shot his stepdaughter and the boyfriend, and then took them outside, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:59.360 apparently and butchered them, and then brought them back to 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:04.040 downtown Logan where they had last been seen, and put 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:10.040 some body parts, heads and limbs in the cornfield. I mean, 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:14.480 it just it made absolutely no sense. They had no 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.560 evidence that he was actually back in town at night 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.199 trying to bury these bodies, but that's what they elect. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:26.760 Dale was not a warm guy. I mean, you know, 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.720 he was the outsider. He didn't have a high opinion 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.879 of the locals. They didn't like him, you know, he 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.080 was convenient guy for them to hang it on. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.040 So, Bill, did anyone think that Dale was innocent? I mean, 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.600 what was your sense of the atmosphere surrounding the case. 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.240 There was such an atmosphere of the case having been 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.520 already tried in the court of public opinion before the 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.560 trial even started. More than a year passed between the 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:59.520 murderers and the trial, and obviously the only story coming 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.000 out of him instigation was that Dale Johnston did it. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.920 So that, in fact, was why the defense waived a 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:08.840 jury trial and asked for a three judge panel, because 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:13.840 they knew that people in Hockey County were so predisposed 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.520 to believe that Dale Johnson was the killer. 0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.720 Now, very little evidence was found at the scenes where 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.399 these body parts were found, but we know investigators found 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.520 some sort of print in the mud by the riverbank. 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.120 And Dale goes down to the police station with his 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.000 wife Sarah, and he thinks he's going there to help 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:48.080 them find the killers, but they confiscate his boots, and 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.600 of course those boots would be compared to the impression 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:53.919 found at the scene. So tell us a little bit more. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.199 About what happened. There were so many cops out there that, 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:02.919 according to the testimony of a Ohio Bureau of Investigation agent, 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.480 they totally ruined the crime scene as far as being 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.119 able to collect any valid evidence. They were cops stopping 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:15.080 all over. Well, what happened was the sheriff of Hockeing 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:20.240 County had an impression made of a depression in the riverbank, 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:22.560 and they made it casting, and they sent it off 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:27.760 to the FBI, and it was examined by a nationally 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.520 known footprint expert at the FBI, and he was brought 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:37.240 in to testify to his findings, and he testified that, well, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:41.639 all he could say that this casting was more likely 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:45.159 a footprint than any kind of a shoe print or bootprint. 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:51.080 And however, he forwarded this plaster cast at his own 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:57.160 volition to a woman anthropologist, Luis Robbins, for her examination. 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:02.800 And she had a the theory of how he could 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:08.760 identify footprints from the wear patterns on the inside of 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:15.399 someone's footwear. She had this Kakamami theory that by examining 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.960 the interior of a footwear she could get wear impressions 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:26.240 and use that to analyze a casting of a print 0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.640 from a shoe or a boot. And so she testified 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:34.400 and trialed it. Well, you can't really say that Dale 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.639 Johnson's boot fits this, but from the wear patterns that 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:43.439 she observed from the interior of the boot, when you 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.280 looked at it that way, then yes, this was made 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:50.320 by Dale Johnson's boot. And I had never heard of 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:53.040 that before. It didn't make any sense to me. It 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.280 was only later, after the damage was done, that it 0:20:56.359 --> 0:21:01.120 came out how irresponsible and unreliable and untrue. 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.800 Her testimony was, so let me get this straight. This 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:08.120 is like, you know, kind of mind blowing here. Louise 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.800 Robbins said that she could match the depression found by 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:16.040 the riverbank to Dale based on where patterns made by 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:20.600 his foot inside his boot. I mean, it just sounds ridiculous. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.760 I've never even heard of that before. This seems to 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:28.600 go so far outside the bounds of any verifiable science. 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:31.720 And you know, it's important for our listeners to keep 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:36.600 in mind that with impression pattern matching methods, that's that's 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.960 the type of science we're talking about, or alleged science 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.200 that we're talking about. With shoe prints and tires. There's 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:46.159 a database that experts have and they refer to this 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.399 database when they're matching a shoe or a tire to 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.320 an impression at a scene, and tires and shoes are 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:57.439 mass produced, so the same rubber mold is used to 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:01.040 make them. But that just tells an expert what class 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:04.280 that piece of evidence came from. So, for instance, they 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:08.240 can say that this footwear impression was made by a 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:12.159 size ten Nike Air Jordan. But the problem is a 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.280 lot of people own a size ten Nike Air Jordan, 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:18.680 so it's not enough to put somebody at the scene. 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:23.920 So impression analysis really comes down to the individual characteristics 0:22:24.080 --> 0:22:27.879 in the specific shoe or shoes that belong to the accused, 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.120 and we're talking about things like cracks in the sole 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:35.720 of the shoe, comes stuck to the bottom of the heel, 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:40.120 you know, characteristics that are often caused by routine wear 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:43.760 and tear. But the problem is there is no standard 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:47.159 regarding the number of unique characteristics that are needed to 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:52.439 make a positive identification. And it sounds like from the 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.400 mold they were working with in this case that the 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.920 FBI analysts couldn't even tell if the impression was made 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.560 by a bare foot or or a shoe, let alone 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.960 what kind of a shoe. So that should tell you 0:23:05.000 --> 0:23:08.640 something about the quality of the impression they were working with. 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:12.960 But miss Robbins makes this huge leap, and it's really 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.440 really hard to imagine that this could have been allowed 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.840 in a courtroom when someone's freedom was on the line. 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:23.280 And yet he or she is one of the prosecution's 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.920 key witnesses when it came to analyzing the physical evidence 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:32.160 of the scene. So how prominently did Miss Robin's testimony 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:34.800 play in the prosecution's closing arguments? 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:38.400 Bill, Well, it was very prominent because it was the 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:42.399 only piece of evidence that linked Dail Johnson to the 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.960 murder scene. I thought it was a very weak link 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.160 to begin with, but apparently it was strong enough for 0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:57.280 three judges. His closing line was, murder is the ultimate 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.680 form of molestation, so you must be guilty of murder too. 0:24:01.400 --> 0:24:05.240 He had, of course, been alleging without evidence, that Dale 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:08.240 Johnson had inappropriate relationship with Annette. 0:24:08.840 --> 0:24:13.800 So after he's convicted and sentence, what happens next? 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:17.959 Bill? He was sent immediately to death row. But you know, 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:23.240 it was such a weird, hostile atmosphere in that town. 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.760 I mean, I will never forget. When it came time 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.560 for the verdict, all the spectators had gathered on the 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:33.240 lower level of the courthouse, but listened to the verdict 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:36.960 by radio, and I will never forget that when the 0:24:37.160 --> 0:24:42.840 guilty verdict was announced, there was this eerie cheering that 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.120 came from below, you know, that filled up the court room. 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:50.760 And these people wanted somebody to pay, and Dale Johnson 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:54.720 happened to be the guy who they were able to 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:55.199 hang it on. 0:24:55.800 --> 0:24:58.280 I mean, it seems Bill that they didn't even have 0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:03.000 anything other than a hunch that Dale Johnson did this. 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:06.280 I mean, it's hard to make sense of this. I mean, 0:25:06.320 --> 0:25:08.840 do you think that they did this on purpose? Do 0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:11.720 you think that they set out to frame Dale Johnson? 0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:17.600 Well, I don't think anyone wants to accept that the 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:25.080 prosecutors and police would knowingly fabricate an entire case against 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:28.720 a murder defendant. And I know I came down to 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:33.960 Logan with no preconceptions. I do remember, you know, having 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:37.400 the belief that, you know, the state wouldn't bring these 0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:40.960 charges unless they had something against this guy. And by 0:25:41.000 --> 0:25:44.719 the end, I said, where is the case? I was 0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:49.879 shocked at the prosecutor's summary. I mean it it was 0:25:50.080 --> 0:25:57.399 total high opera and total fantasy. Everything that was presented 0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:03.200 in that trial was a lie. I believe somewhere before 0:26:03.760 --> 0:26:05.760 I die, I'm going to learn the truth in this case, 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:08.760 and that just so happens that I did. 0:26:20.240 --> 0:26:23.960 You know, it's interesting that oftentimes, when one of these 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:26.960 disciplines of junk science is used in a case and 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:31.320 the person is convicted, it's not the exposure of that 0:26:31.640 --> 0:26:36.200 junk science as being total bullshit that leads to the exoneration. 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:40.719 It's often that DNA testing is used to prove that 0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:44.439 they have the wrong person. What's really interesting about this 0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:49.439 case is that Dale is eventually released from prison because 0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:52.000 his lawyers were able to prove that some of the 0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:54.840 evidence that was used the convictim was not admissible. And 0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:59.000 oddly enough, it wasn't the shoe evidence that was thrown out, 0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:02.679 but another witness is testimony. It turns out that a 0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:07.880