1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Let's talk about ross for a second. How far did 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: you get in that process? I got to the studio okay, 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: and I had I guess it had to. They moved 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: me up quickly to the studio level. I didn't make 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: it past that. Years later, when I was working with 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: Jim Burrows on Will and Grace, he directed the first 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: twelve episodes of Friends, and I said, you know, Jimmy, 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if I never got to meet you, 9 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: but pretty far along there on the Friends casting, he said, oh, honey, 10 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: you were wasting your time. They wrote the part for 11 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: Schwimmer and that was the end of That was the 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: end of that dream. Hi, I'm Eric McCormack, and I 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: I'm so embarrassed. Hello, Hello everybody, and welcome back to 14 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: Off the Beat. I am, as always, your host, Brian Baumgartner, 15 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: and you just heard from my guest today, the incredible 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: and incredibly funny looking Eric McCormack. You might know him 17 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: from his tenure playing the groundbreaking Will Truman on Will 18 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: and Grace, for which he earned an Emmy for Outstanding 19 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: Lead Actor in a Comedy Series and a star on 20 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Or maybe you know him 21 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: from his time traveling show Travelers, or his crime drama perception. 22 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: Eric has well, he's done it all. And as they 23 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: said during the dedication of his Walk of Fame star, 24 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: he's a national treasure even though he's Canadian and it's 25 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: it's hard to argue with that. No, Eric is he 26 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: is indeed a treasure in the US and Canada all 27 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: over the world. I have gotten to know him working 28 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: on our new show The Other Black Girl down in Atlanta. 29 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm excited to dig into his life with all of 30 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: you here, from his background as a theater actor to 31 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: his amazing friendship with Elton John. You're in for a 32 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: treat today. I'm not gonna make you wait one moment longer. 33 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: My new bestie and soon to be yours, Eric McCormack, 34 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: Bubble and Squeak. I love Bubble and Squeak. Bubble and 35 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: Squeaker cook at every month, left over from the night before. Well, well, 36 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: well how are you? I mean, you know, I'm good? 37 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: How are you? I mean? My little crappy I gotta 38 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: I gotta figure out how to the only place in 39 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 1: my home that this kind of thing works, podcasting and 40 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: all of that is in like crappy little office which 41 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: I have not updated in years, and it's just messy 42 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm the gimp when I'm down here, 43 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: like I've been locked down here, and let me upstairs eventually. Well, 44 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really want the visual image of 45 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: you being a gimp in your office, but it's there now, 46 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: so sorry. Uh Well, first of all, Happy new Year, 47 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: Happy new year to you, buddy. What a strange little 48 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: little Am I going to see you again in the 49 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: new year? I mean, I don't, I don't know. I mean, 50 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: I guess you know better than I what we can 51 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: say to people. But Eric and I are working on 52 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: a new show together out in my hometown of Atlanta, Georgia. 53 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, I will see I guess. Yeah. It's 54 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: a very I'm excited. It's based on a book called 55 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: The Other Black Girl, and we're keeping the title, which 56 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: of course is a white guy is always gonna be 57 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: a very embarrassing title to what are you working on? 58 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: What the other the Other Black Girl? It's it's a book, 59 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: it's based on a book and award winning books. Um, 60 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 1: but it's it's ays. It's a great ten episode half 61 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 1: hour the three young women starring in a great uh, 62 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: and Brian and I have some fun stuff to do, 63 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: but we're not sure if Ryan's UH back in the 64 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: next couple of episodes. We're not sure. Yeah, we're not sure. 65 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: We probably shouldn't say I don't. I always feel like 66 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get in trouble anytime before something is out 67 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 1: to say anything. But I can officially say that I 68 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: am working and have gotten to know you in Atlanta, 69 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: which has been delightful. Indeed, we've had a couple of 70 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: great dinners together. Yeah. Um, well, I want to I 71 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: want to end there, but I want to go back now. 72 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: As we have discussed, and as my research has confirmed, 73 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: you're originally from Canada. I asked. I'm a Toronto boy, 74 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: and in fact, my family's Toronto for about four generations. 75 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: And uh, my parents grew up in the east side 76 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: of town, and I grew up in the suburbs and 77 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: and didn't really make it out of there until I 78 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: was almost thirty, and that was and just and that 79 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: was to go west to Vancouver. I didn't really come 80 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: to to l A until Yeah, I was about my 81 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: thirties birthday. And you you were primarily doing theater early 82 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: on correct yeah, I was. I mean years later I 83 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: would hear about actors that had started pre med or 84 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: or may or maybe they just discovered acting in their 85 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,559 Speaker 1: twice like what. I've been acting since I was five 86 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: years old. And you know, I wasn't the child's are 87 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: or anything. I was just that was I knew from 88 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: the age of about six that's what I was gonna do, 89 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: and was in every school play and uh went to 90 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: theater school in in Toronto and then left a little 91 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: early to apprentice at a Shakespeare company. And so my 92 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: twenties were spent almost entirely in Canadian theater. Wait, but 93 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: six years old, I understand you were inspired by mel Blanc, 94 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: Yes for sure, who voiced all the Looney Tunes, Don 95 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: Adams in Smart and Woody Allen. This is a collection. Yeah, 96 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't the big Woody Allen fan at six. That 97 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: came a little bit later. But you know, another big 98 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: one that only Canadians would really know, uh sort of. 99 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: The Canadian version of Mr Rogers was a wonderful character 100 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: named Mr. Dress Up who was played by an actor 101 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: named Ernie Coombs, and he literally had what he called 102 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: a tickle trunk. Every morning, every kid would watch this 103 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: show across Canada and he would costumes out of a 104 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: trunk and become that character. I swear that is is 105 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: my earliest influence. But then, yeah, Mel Blank is a 106 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: big one for me. I'm sure a lot of actors 107 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: would say the same that when I realized because at 108 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: the end of Loony Tunes were much bigger for my 109 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: family than Disney. I would watch Loony Tunes every day 110 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: and at the end of it, as you're watching those 111 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: very speedy credits that go by, there would say voice 112 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: characterization Mel Blank, and I thought, what the hell does 113 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: that even mean? And then I discovered that it was 114 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: one guy doing all of it, and I thought, well, 115 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: this is this is a living somehow. Well, but isn't 116 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: that crazy, right, Like I go through that with my kids. 117 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: It's a complicated thing, right to understand that this is 118 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: done by a person, the animated voices. This is very complicated. 119 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: I've done very little. I did one kids thing which 120 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: was called Pound Puppies. It did three seasons of Pound Pupas. 121 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,559 Speaker 1: But by that point my kid was already twelve or something, 122 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: so he wasn't aware of that particular work. But it 123 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: is interesting once once in a Blue Moon guy's coming 124 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: to me in the street with his little kid, and 125 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: he's pointed at me and said, honey, that's Lucky. That's 126 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: Lucky the dog. And yeah, the look on the face 127 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: is like, now, that is definitely not lucky that. Now. 128 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: Did you have a trunk that you would take costumes 129 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: out of? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, I mean I just I 130 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: said that my mother very early on. I'm just gonna 131 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: of course, what it was filled with was my dad's 132 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: old shirts, you know, But that's okay. I made the 133 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: hats my you know, and anybody that disposed to the 134 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: hats was was mine. You're just like different versions of 135 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: your dad, isn't that true? Though? Of all this king 136 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: dad mowing the lawn, this is Dad. Yeah, this is 137 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: Dad is a gangster m Yeah. That was a huge 138 00:08:55,360 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: I mean I was that traditional kind of long kid. 139 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: I had one best friend through my through my elementary years. 140 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: But luckily he played along. I always thought he was 141 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: like fifty with me and this. It wasn't til years 142 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: later when I was talking about the games we would 143 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: play in, the crazy characters and the stories we'd create 144 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: in the imagination, You'd be like, dude, that was you. 145 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: I just I just trying to keep up with I 146 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: don't know what the hell you were doing, because I 147 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: was say and it was a lot of stealing things 148 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: from TV. You know. I'd watch mash or All in 149 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: the Family with my dad, or some more serious stuff 150 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: like crime solving stuff with my mom, and I would 151 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: just the next day That's what I would act out 152 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 1: all the time. So I think while so many actors 153 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: were so influenced by SAVE films, my earliest influence is 154 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: definitely all all television. How are your parents? Were they supportive? Yeah? 155 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: You know the story I tell when I tried to 156 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: shorten at this time coach By. But basically, my father 157 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: was a traditional suburban dad that gotten the bus every 158 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: day and went to a job as a financial analyst 159 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: for Shell Oil. And when I started to get deeply 160 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: into the musicals I was doing and wearing my rainbow 161 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: suspenders from God's Spell all the time, and he put 162 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: up with it, did he? He said, let's go all 163 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: you're very well done. Well done. I got into a 164 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: college called Ryerson, which was the theater program there, and 165 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: they were supportive. That's about it until second year I 166 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: found I was looking in my parents attic. I found 167 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: a photo album of my father's years at Ryerson as 168 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: an actor. He had that was his dream. And he 169 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: graduated fifty two and then just stopped one day and 170 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: didn't and just went back to school for accounting and 171 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: never look back to the point where he never told 172 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: me a wow. And I tried to pick his brain 173 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: by this point as world of in the early eighties, 174 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: and uh, he said, oh, well, you know, I wasn't. 175 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't as serious as you are. And and but 176 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 1: he clearly had just made a very kind of early 177 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: fifties decision that there's you know, there's a there's food 178 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: to be put on the table, and and your dreams 179 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: are are not real, and you've got to look at reality. 180 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: And so the fact that I've sort of got something 181 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: um from him that he wouldn't even really admit to 182 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: until years later he come to Will and Grace Tapings 183 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: and you'd get have a Martinian going. I taught him 184 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: everything you knew, but he never met when you went, 185 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: he never mentioned, oh I went there. We had a 186 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: teacher in common, the late Jack McAllister, taught me speech, 187 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: and he, thirty years earlier, had taught my father. And 188 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: of course he never made the connections, and certainly I didn't, 189 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: so yeah, so they were very very supportive and they 190 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: got a great thrill out of it as the years 191 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: went by, But that always hung. There is a great mystery. 192 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: They're they're both gone now and I just will never 193 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 1: fully solve why not why you don't pursue that dream, 194 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: but why you don't even mention it ever as your 195 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: son is deep in the heart of it, I'll never know. Um, 196 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: after you left Ryerson, you accepted a position at the 197 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: Stratford Shakespeare Festival. So were you you were doing the 198 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: whole Shakespeare ensemble doing in various shows. Is that My 199 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: theater school was very classical, so I was very prepared 200 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: for this and got an apprenticeship. And there are people 201 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: that the Stratford Festival in Canada, just outside of Toronto 202 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: is the biggest in North America, and it is. It's fantastic, 203 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: and there are people that stay there their whole lives. 204 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: And I ended up there for five seasons, which is 205 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: nine months of the year, so it was five full 206 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: years of my life, and in the winters I would 207 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: go to other theaters in Canada to do whatever I get. 208 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: Um that there was no television for the longest, longest time, 209 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: and uh, but I did. I ended up doing in 210 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: that period of time about half the cannon, about seventeen 211 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare's place, and I was an apprentice and a 212 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: lot of them I was just carrying a spear or understudy. 213 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: But then I got a few good parts, and by 214 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 1: the end of it, but it was eighty nine, I 215 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: just sort of was starting to get the feeling that 216 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: that's not my destiny. Okay, So let's talk about that 217 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: for a second. Was was there, because you and I 218 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: have talked about I started off in theater as well. 219 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: Was there a period of time where you thought, like 220 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: you mentioned, many people were there, they were life or there. 221 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: What did you think that was your path? Early you said, 222 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: there's a moment you decided no. But yeah, I I 223 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: was so such a theater geek at that point and 224 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: making okay money as theater goes that all the the 225 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: dreams that I had had as a kid of you know, 226 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: watching television and the idea of being on a television 227 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: show or anything that kind of went away. I wanted. 228 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: I wanted the respect and wanted the sort of the 229 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: high flue life of being a poor theater actor. But 230 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: I also started to realize that I had a This 231 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: goes back to the Woody Allen reference. I my style 232 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: was not intrinsically here Elizabethan I was. I was starting 233 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: to get more and more sort of urban Jewish in 234 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: my delivery. And the directors, literally John John Neville, who 235 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: who was directing a production of Three Sisters. At one point, 236 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: I was playing Baron Tuzenbach, and he stopped me in 237 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: the middle of a run and said, right, Eric, he's 238 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: a Russian baron. Is not the Allen because I just 239 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: hands with my pockets and I was trying to find 240 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: the modern sort of and I couldn't stop it. And 241 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: I played Demetrius the same way. And it's like I 242 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: eventually let go for being to sitcomy eight years before 243 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: Will embarras so interesting. I played two Zimbox. Did you really? 244 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: I love that part. It's a great love that role. 245 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: It's a great part. The relationship with Arena beautiful. Yeah, 246 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: did you? And he plays the piano in the first act? 247 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: Did you play? No? I didn't, but they What I 248 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: loved is that, because of the nature of the stage, 249 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: they had to get rid of that piano quickly. How 250 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: do you do that? So they had built a piano 251 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: that looked like a baby grand from the audience. I mean, 252 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: it was incredible, but you could lift it with one hand. 253 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: It was a complete fake with the thinnest plywood. But 254 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: I because I spent my whole adolescence in my bedroom 255 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: pretending to be Freddie Mercury, So I just the idea 256 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: that I could sit there and recite my lines and 257 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: talking to Arena and act like I'm playing this music. 258 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: I just maybe so happy. So you have a moment 259 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: where you're at Stratford and you start thinking that maybe 260 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: you want to switch gears? Do you consider it at 261 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: this moment? Because I did, By the way, spoiler alert, 262 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: I'll answer my own question before I ask it. Did 263 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: you consider it changing careers? Well, at this point, I'm 264 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: still basically Toronto based, and there really was there. There 265 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: were some actors that got some Canadian series that didn't 266 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: do a whole lot of theater at a lot of theater, 267 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: actors that couldn't get in at the CBC. But for 268 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: the most part, there was a lot of bleed over 269 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: because it was a limited acting pool. So it didn't 270 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: seem like I had to fully change careers, but I 271 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: was pretty aware that I had to change something, that 272 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: whenever this sort of flamboyant theatricality that I enjoyed for years, 273 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: something was going to change. And it wasn't landing much 274 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: in Toronto. And then in ninety two, a couple of 275 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: years later, I flew because somebody told me there was 276 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: so much more television going on in Vancouver, Canadian and 277 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: a lot of American stuff. So I flew out there 278 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: and slept on my friend's couch and and started auditioning. 279 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: And the big lesson came when I auditioned for the 280 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: original The X Files. They'd already started, they shot the pilot, 281 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: they were starting to shoot episodes, and I was auditioning 282 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: for a guest star for Chris Carter and I did 283 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: my scene and he said, okay, just that, just one 284 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: more time, just do less. So okay, I tried, did 285 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:25,439 Speaker 1: it again. He said yeah, less, really okay, And now 286 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'm practically whispering and I'm trying not to move anything, 287 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: and he said one more time, he said less, And 288 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: I said, if I do less, I won't be doing 289 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: anything at all. And he said, yeah, that's kind of 290 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: what we're going for and I did. I simply couldn't 291 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: understand until I saw, you know, the pilot, and I went, oh, okay, 292 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: I gotta learn how to do that. I don't know 293 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: how to not do things with my eyes and move 294 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: my hands. And it is so it is in a 295 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: way to your question, it is a new kind of skill. 296 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: It's a new career in a way. Yeah, you get 297 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: your first break on street just this. Yes, Car Carl 298 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: Weathers and I Carl Weathers and I solving crimes. But 299 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: this is drama now, which I guess makes sense. I mean, 300 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: you're doing lear, but my guess is not a ton 301 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: of theatricality in that or in Lonesome Dove, which comes 302 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: shortly after that. Yeah, The Lonesome Lonesome Dove was the 303 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: big change for me because I was doing like, like 304 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: a lot of guys that were in Vancouver round that time, 305 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: that one Jump Street time. It was a lot of young, 306 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: good looking guys. We're all vying for the same parts, 307 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: and a lot of the television was badly written. It 308 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: was no great that this was The Lonesome Dove. And 309 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,160 Speaker 1: ninety four was the spinoff of the miniseries, and it 310 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: was to play this I hesitate to use the word macho, 311 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: but this this sort of tough Confederate colonel with the accent, 312 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,199 Speaker 1: and I had my hair was kind of long at 313 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: the time, and I grew a beard, and it was 314 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 1: so not me. It was so the opposite of everything 315 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: I've ever done. So getting it was pretty awesome, and 316 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: it really in my brain, I thought, this is what 317 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 1: I will be. I didn't think that necessarily this show 318 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: is going to make me famous, but I thought this 319 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: is how I'll be perceived now in the business. Because 320 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: I was thirty one, I'll be my thirties. I'll be 321 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: right rides horses and shoots guns and and that's what 322 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: I'll be until I'm a gay lawyer, I guess southern 323 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: Southern Confederate soldier. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's exactly what I 324 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: think of you. I know. So you're doing these dramas. 325 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 1: Is there a thought in your head about comedy, about 326 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: wanting that or feeling that like that's where you should 327 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: be or were you just auditioning and trying to get something? Yeah, 328 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: I mean both both those things are true. Is definitely 329 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: auditioning and trying to get something. And you know, to 330 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: go back to the tickle trunk. I mean, whatever costume 331 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: might pull out. It could be funny, but it could 332 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: be serious. I loved I love playing in my backyard. 333 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: It was a kid. I'd play cops and I decided 334 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: that they were divorced, so they were angry, and I always, 335 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, there was there was a dramatic side to 336 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: me that also needed to be fed, and a lot 337 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: of theater school was was that. But what was happening 338 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: I was doing lonesome job. I was playing this incredibly 339 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: serious part. But when I'd go home, I'm watching Seinfeld 340 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: and I'm watching Friends, and I'd grown up on Cheers, 341 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: and It's like like there was a big part of 342 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: me that was going kind damn it because I got 343 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: Lonesome Dove, having only weeks earlier auditioned for Ross on Friends, 344 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: I've done my first pilot season and nothing had come 345 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: of it, and I Lonesome Dove was a result of 346 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: a Canadian audition, so that I was very aware now 347 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: of what was happening on television that I loved, which 348 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: was the great sort of SEETV stuff on our network. 349 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: All right, well, wait, let's talk about Ross for a second. 350 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: How far did you get in that process. I got 351 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: to the studio and I had I guess it had to. 352 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: They moved me up quickly to the studio level. I 353 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 1: didn't make it past that. Years later, when I was 354 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: working with Jim Burrows on Will and Grace, he directed 355 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: the first twelve episodes of Friends, and I said, you know, Jimmy, 356 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,239 Speaker 1: I don't know if I never got to meet you, 357 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: but I got pretty far along there on the Friends 358 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: casting and he said, oh, honey, were wasting your time. 359 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: They wrote the park for schwim Mark and that was 360 00:21:39,480 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: the end of that. At the end of that dream, 361 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: talk to me about Will and Grace. Was this just 362 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: an audition? This was an opportunity? Did you know any 363 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: of the players involved? I didn't know anybody. Tracy Lillian 364 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: phild had cast it, and she had had tried to 365 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: cast me in one or two other things, so she 366 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: was definitely got me in the room. I was not 367 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: a known fact at that time. I was reading Matthew 368 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: Perry's book and it reminded me that in that sort 369 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 1: of period through the nineties and pilot season, everybody sort 370 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: of knew seemed to know everybody, and if you know, 371 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: if you didn't get this one. You're gonna get that one. 372 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: And and I don't think I was in that pool. 373 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: I wasn't aware of being at that pool. I was 374 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: just down from Canada. I didn't know that many people. 375 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: But if a casting director sees you and believes in you, 376 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: they'll get you in. And that's that's what happened there. 377 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: And I read this guy. I knew but because this 378 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: by this point, it's nineties seven and it's and friends 379 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: and mad about you, and they're all like gigantic shows 380 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: Seinfeld of course, so I knew. With the pond, I 381 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: was trying to swim in and I knew a good 382 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: script when I saw it, and it was a great 383 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: pilot script, and I just I went in. I was 384 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: my hair was quite long, and I was wearing this 385 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: odd sweater. I looked back down and going was I thinking? 386 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: But but I went in and I just did this 387 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: one scene. It was on a park bench with with Grace, 388 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: and I don't think that scene never made it to 389 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: the show. But I did that one scene. And Max 390 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: much Nick, was the the gay one of the two 391 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: that created the show, just jumped out of his seat 392 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: and said, okay, just so you know, you never have 393 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: to be more gay than that, and I went, okay, okay, 394 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: that's good, that's good, right, thank you. I don't know, 395 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 1: because even they were trying to find that balance of 396 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: you know, because they knew that they could with Jack, 397 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: they could go crazy, but the will what is that balance? 398 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: And so I was just gay enough. But but that 399 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: was one of I'm pretty sure six auditions. And what 400 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: was weird is that I kind of felt like I 401 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: had it in that room. I just I could see 402 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: it in Max and David's eyes. But of course there's 403 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: all these other levels, there's all these other people to please. 404 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: And then it was a strange, little weird period of 405 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: time was this, which is before Christmas, a period of 406 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 1: time over Christmas where I had this other opportunity in 407 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: Canada and I just wasn't sure. And I kind of 408 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: said to them, I'm going to pull myself out of 409 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: this for a while. And Max called me at my 410 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: home in Vancouver. It says, Max, Muchnick, what are you doing? 411 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: He said what I said, I'm just not sure. There's 412 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: a whole lot of all these scripts to to sort 413 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: of consider. It's pilot season. He said, if you pass 414 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: on this, you were making the biggest mistake of your life. 415 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: And he was right, and I came back and I 416 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: woke up one morning in Vancouver, January second third, and 417 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: I just turned to my wife and I said, I 418 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: think I've made a terrible mistake, and she said, yeah, maybe, 419 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: so I called. Un Luckily they hadn't cast it yet, 420 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: so but it turned out later that all four of 421 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 1: us had some version of that story that all four 422 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: of us, unbeknownst to us, it was kind of our 423 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: part too, and we all kind of almost blew it. 424 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: What were they waiting? What were they waiting on? What 425 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: do you mean in terms of well, like like you 426 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: you were all sitting like over Christmas. They just they 427 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,679 Speaker 1: wouldn't pull the trigger, and they they they weren't necessarily 428 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: gonna pull the trigger before Christmas because it was afterwards 429 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: that you'd go to network. And then I hadn't met Burrowsie, 430 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,719 Speaker 1: I didn't even know Jimmy was directing. I don't think 431 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: I would have dropped out of now, but it was 432 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: just very early in the process. It was one of 433 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: those scripts that got considered early, an auditioned for early 434 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: because they knew But as an actor, you by that 435 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: point you've been trained to think, well, you know, let's 436 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: get to late February suddenly, I mean demand, which is 437 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: just a dumb, dumb game to play. But at the 438 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: same time, not every television show was great, and you're thinking, 439 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: you know, what if I sign up for the for 440 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: this one and then e Er comes up. But I mean, 441 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: looking back, honestly, between you and I, you were talking 442 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: with drama and comedy, like, I don't think I could 443 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: have done e Er and been happy. It was genius 444 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: And know while he's become a good friend, but I 445 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: know that from my destination was was going to be sitcom. 446 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: I just I just know it was. The show is 447 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: a huge success. How early did you realize what it 448 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: was going to be for the LBG t Q community. 449 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there had been Ellen, there had been 450 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: a few other shows, but you know, completely centering on 451 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: same sex relationships. Will and Grace definitely the first and 452 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: most prominent of those shows. At what point did you 453 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 1: realize that what you were doing was significant? In another way, 454 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: it's an interesting question because you think the answer would be, oh, 455 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 1: we knew. We didn't know at all, because that's not 456 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: what the writers were trying to do. They were trying 457 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: to write a funny show, but and they've been encouraged. 458 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 1: Their initial pilot scripts, Will and Grace were like the 459 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: fifth and sixth characters in a kind of friends like 460 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: otherwise straight show, and it was or Little Field at 461 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: was running NBC that said, I've seen that before, dude, 462 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: what about these two characters? And then of course they 463 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: went on to Craig Jack and Karen, who were even crazier. 464 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: So it's there was never a political agenda. It was 465 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,280 Speaker 1: almost the opposite. At first, it was like, how do 466 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: we do this? How do we make these two men 467 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: as gay as they are and not apologize for it 468 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: and not hide behind things. Some of the advertising early 469 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: on was a little soft soap, was a little sort 470 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: of friendship is the most important thing in life. But 471 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: by the end of the first season, when we had 472 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: been unapologetically out in every episode, there's very few episodes 473 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: that didn't have a number of bantery situations, which particularly 474 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: between Jack and Will. But even into the second third, 475 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: fourth season, when Glad was was supporting us, we still weren't. 476 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,880 Speaker 1: It didn't occur to us that we might be having 477 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: an effect. We had the approval of the gay community, 478 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: didn't occur to us that we were having an effect 479 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: beyond that. It really didn't. And it really almost was 480 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: almost in years later. It was almost when the show 481 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: was off the air, because we got to a point 482 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: where I want to say, season six, I had I 483 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: got married. We'll got married to Tay Diggs. I mean, 484 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: I was not only having um that wasn't marriage at 485 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: the time. What was that domestic partner? Domestic partnership. We 486 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: had a domestic partnership in my apartment. Paul and Oates 487 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: performed in partner that's our marriage digs. And then you 488 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: know that I kissed that, I kissed the groom. You know, 489 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: so I'm I'm kissing a black man, a white man 490 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: kissing a black men on television. And there was almost 491 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: zero hoop love because at that point we've been so 492 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: Will and Grace for so long that it's almost like 493 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: us getting any sort of credit for doing something socially 494 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: important had come and gone. We were just that silly 495 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: show that had so many guest stars all the time. 496 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: And it wasn't until later like in it was after 497 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: Joe Biden was on Meet the Press ten years ago 498 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 1: and they were talking about marriage equality, and he said 499 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: he said, I think will Engrace did more for to 500 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: push that agenda and spread that word than in any 501 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: other And we all called each other and what did 502 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: did you just hear that? Because we hadn't even then, 503 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: even six years after the show was off the air, 504 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: I thought of ourselves that way. It was only around 505 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: that time that a lot of young people, and as 506 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: gay marriage became law, young people or couples that have 507 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: been together for thirty years started to approach all of 508 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: us in the street and say that made a big 509 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: difference in my life. Incredible. You talked about the parade 510 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: of guest stars that you had. You and I talked 511 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: about it at dinner. You guys basically just anointed Emmy 512 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: winners year after year. Leslie Jordan's obviously was more than 513 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: just a guest star, was a significant recurring character on 514 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: the show. How was it like working with with Leslie 515 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: and and all these other stars? Well, I mean, yeah, 516 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: Leslie was one of a few that was wasn't even 517 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: just recurring. They became a fabric of the show. We 518 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,239 Speaker 1: always looked forward to that because the writers knew how 519 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: to had a right for someone like Leslie from the 520 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: moment he he appeared well, well, well I think that's 521 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: how you began broadcast today. Well, we um he was 522 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: always just Joy and and and some of our other 523 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: tim bag lades that the guys that would come back. 524 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: It was always nice to have that that family because 525 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: you got on your show. You guys had such a 526 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: big family to start with episode. Yeah, that's right. I 527 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: never thought about that. Actually, I don't think we talked 528 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: about that. Really was really just the four of you. Yeah, 529 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean, and of course there'd be and that people 530 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: that my parents sudden I had great parents and Grace 531 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: had great parents. But we we got to a point 532 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: with with guest stars because people loved to come on 533 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: the show, and the word got out there it's a 534 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: it's a fun week, we should go on will and 535 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: great that we would go to. We begged the writers 536 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: by season four be like, can we just have one? 537 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: Just one was just the U And once in a 538 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: while we'd have that and it was and it was 539 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: great fun because it felt like a little play. But 540 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: most of the time it was an event because we'd 541 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: say goodbye to Matt Damon and Michael Douglas would come 542 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: on the show, and so it was this other thing. 543 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: And sometimes depending on the person. If it was somethenly 544 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: like Madonna, it's like who's who's servicing who here? Like, 545 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: I mean, the whole week became about Madonna's here suppost? Well, 546 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: what stories are we telling? What are the characters doing? 547 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: Can't change everything from from Madonna's schedule, but it did 548 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: become that after a while. Well, it's funny and I 549 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: never thought about this, but in some ways, there was 550 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: a period of time there where it was almost like SNL. Right, 551 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: it was like there would there would be an ad 552 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: for who was you know, Will Ferrell's guest hosting SNL, 553 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: and then yeah, Matt Damon is on, will agree, Yeah, 554 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: And it went from like why, oh my god, this 555 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: look at this one special? But you know, and suddenly, 556 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: well it was one episode. We had John Clice, uh, 557 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,479 Speaker 1: Gina Davis and somebody else. I mean, it was like 558 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: three in the same episode. It's incredible. Yeah. And meanwhile, 559 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: we were in a lot of ways with the opposite. 560 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: We're a paper company in Scranton. Why would Matt Damon 561 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 1: show up? Exactly it's distracting to a degree on Will 562 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: and Grace, but it would be more distracting and scranting. 563 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: You know. I mean, you'd be very aware of it. 564 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: So maybe that was the logic. I know, because you 565 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: guys all were so real and there were so many 566 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: of you being so real for so long that that's 567 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: a that's a different fabric. You don't want to necessarily 568 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: funk with um. Talk to me a little bit about 569 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: the decision for you guys to be done. Was this 570 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: your decision, the cast decision? Now it was It was 571 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: mutual in that nearing the end of season seven, we 572 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: were all we were all making that sort of mistake 573 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: that happens where you you just think there's so much else, 574 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: I'm sort of done with this, I've done this, I've 575 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: done this, let's move on. Let's move on. I say 576 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: mistake because the you know, we could have the writers 577 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: wanted to do we all wanted to do it. But 578 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 1: at the same time, we didn't want to go out badly. 579 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: We didn't want the numbers to start to drop below 580 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: a certain thing, and we didn't want to repeat ourselves. 581 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: So there was a decision made that season eight was 582 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: our last. And so I liked that in retrospect because 583 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: we went out with our heads high, and but it 584 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: was also once it was done there was definitely a 585 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: period of tie. Can't speak for the others, I know 586 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: for myself it was it was a few years before 587 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: I realized that I was searching and I wasn't. I 588 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: wasn't going to do the Matt Blanc Joey thing. I 589 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: was going to dive into another sitcom and and in 590 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: fact I found started to find dramas after that, But 591 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: it still took me a couple of years, a little theater, 592 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: a little this to sort of get not just Will, 593 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: but the whole experience, though, is it's you're spoiled, rotten spoil. 594 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: I lived close to the stage. We worked twenty two 595 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: hours a week. It was a pretty great life that 596 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: we all eventually took for granted. I think you received 597 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: four Emmy nominations, one win as Outstanding Lead Actor in 598 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: a Comedy Series for Will and Grace. What do you 599 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: value more that or being named one of People Magazine's 600 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: fifty most Beautiful People. I mean, it is neck and neck, 601 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: my friend, it is. It is a toss up. Um, 602 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: talk to me about the talker. Talk to me about um. 603 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: By the way, I didn't mention double double boil in 604 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: trouble yet. Talk to me about that Emmy win. I mean, 605 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,760 Speaker 1: to win that award and to receive that that validation 606 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: from the Academy. What was that for you? It was 607 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,319 Speaker 1: really huge for mean, you know, the for one thing, 608 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: the only knowledge I had of that particular award, not 609 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: the Emmy in general, but that specific award, is that 610 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: that's what on Adams one and famously got so drunk 611 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: with Don Riggles that he fell on the wings, the 612 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: pointy pointy wings of the Emmy and made himself bleed 613 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: like a vampire, which I don't know if it's apocryphal. 614 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to know. I love it, um, but 615 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: it meant a lot to me because I always felt 616 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: like I was on the outside coming in because I 617 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: was Canadian. I think possibly you know, I was coming 618 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,240 Speaker 1: from another country, coming from from the theater. I didn't 619 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of friends in l A when I 620 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: even when I got the job, I was still I 621 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: really didn't know anybody. So it felt like approval for 622 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: the actual work. And it was for an episode that 623 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 1: I was really proud of. It was for the sort 624 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,600 Speaker 1: of flashback to when Will comes out to Grace. It 625 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: was beautifully written episode by Jeff Greenstein, and I just thought, 626 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: if it was ever I'm ever going to get this is. 627 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: If there is ever a reality, it'll be this one. 628 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: It was just not. It was nice for that, in 629 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: that one moment to know that I was what's the 630 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: word we use all the time now, seen, you know, 631 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,399 Speaker 1: I felt seen, like, yes, we see you, you can 632 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: do this. And so it's it's it sits on my piano. 633 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: I it doesn't matter to me. And you know the people, 634 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: you know, people's most beautiful. I've got framed over my bed, 635 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: so they're they're really I don't. I have it framed 636 00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: over my son's bed, just to remind me, to remind him, yes, 637 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: to drive him forward. You talk about your piano. You 638 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: told me an amazing story. I have to bring him. 639 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: Before you went to Ryerson Theater School, you went to 640 00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: Sir John A. McDonald Collegiate Institute UM with a few 641 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: other notable people, Mike Myers being one. Mikeae was there. 642 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: David Furnish. David Furnish, Yes, David Furnish and I were 643 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: in a theater class together ten eleventh and twelfth grade 644 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: and part of a real little clak of of UM. 645 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: Three guys and my and my friend Helga and we 646 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: did Godspell and Pippen and the Fantastics together, and eventually 647 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: he moved. We kept in touch a little bit, then 648 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: he moved to London, we lost touch, and when we 649 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: finally sort of reconnected again, I was just starting to 650 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 1: date my wife and he was just starting to date 651 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: Elton John uh like mid nineties, and then shortly thereafter 652 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: Will and Grace happened and they were the first. Elton 653 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: and David were the first people, I think in the 654 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: UK to see it because it didn't exist there yet, 655 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: and I'd sent him a bunch of videotapes of season one, 656 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,959 Speaker 1: which they quite enjoyed, which led eventually to Elton being 657 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: on the show. Um, my favorite story that I'll tell 658 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: to lie Dies is just that Elton asked me to 659 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: host an event for Yamaha, and Yamaha's payment to me 660 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: they paid me in piano, so I was given a 661 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: maybe grand piano that sits in the senator in the 662 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: living room to this day. And shortly thereafter and we've 663 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 1: only ever seen David and Elton in the world at 664 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: a restaurant and David called us that he was in town, 665 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: and Janet and my wife stand and said, well, tell 666 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: David to come home for He said, well, why don't 667 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: you just come over and see the house. He said, sure, 668 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,560 Speaker 1: We'll be over at eight and I said, Janet, he 669 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: said we he said we, did not say I. He 670 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: said we. So sure enough, Elton and David came over 671 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: for dinner. My son was six months old at the time, 672 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: and I eventually just said, Elton, you know you're gonna 673 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: have to christen the piano. Without a second thought, got up, 674 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 1: walked into the living room, sat down at the piano, 675 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: looked up at me. He's wearing a sweatshirt, like a 676 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: vlor sweat outfit, and he said, what was you like 677 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: me to play? And I thought, this is it. This 678 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: is my chance, is my chance to show him that 679 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: I'm serious here. I know my ship. I'm not gonna 680 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,240 Speaker 1: say rocket I'm not gonna say Rocket band like some schmucks. 681 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:18,720 Speaker 1: So I I said, okay, I've seen that movie Toom 682 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: Goodbye Yellow Bick Road, and he looked up at me 683 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,879 Speaker 1: and said, oh, fuck off, I don't remember that song. 684 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: And remember the moment, Feeling incensed as a fan, I 685 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: was like, you don't remember that. You're supposed to know 686 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: every song you wrote it. You wrote it. So he 687 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: didn't play that song. But I tell that story and 688 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 1: my act occasionally and do and then I do. I've 689 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: seen that movie to which people don't remember, which is 690 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,760 Speaker 1: a great song. What did he play? He played, Actually, 691 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: he played another obscure song for me because my son 692 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: was there as a beautiful song called the Greatest Discovery. 693 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: It's about a little boy waking up and hearing all 694 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: this commotion and realizing that he has a brand new 695 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: baby brother, and it's it's I feel like it's it's 696 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 1: an impossible song to hear in that cry at the end, 697 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: it's just so. It's Bernie Tuppas greatest lyrics, I think, 698 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: and I do that. I've seen that one occasionally too. 699 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: But he sang that song at the piano. And then 700 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: the next day I saw my neighbor Thomas, and he 701 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: was aware we had this new piano. We didn't know 702 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: each other that well at the time, but he's seeing 703 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: the piano right when he said, I couldn't help. But 704 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: over here last night, you're you're getting pretty good. Thank you. 705 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: Uh um. You mentioned after Well and Grace you had 706 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: some time and you started exploring other things. One of 707 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: those being Travelers the show playing Traveler four UM and 708 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: you also produced and you directed and episode for that show. 709 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: How was How was that for you? Travelers was a 710 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 1: real There's been a couple that had come before where 711 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: I did a show for a year called Trust Me 712 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: with Tom Kavanaugh, and then I did a show for 713 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 1: three years called Perception where I played a neuroscience professor 714 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 1: and I had produced on that one too, and eventually 715 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,880 Speaker 1: directed one episode and and so it was a very 716 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: much a learning curve slowly through that through the early 717 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,160 Speaker 1: tens that what we call them UM. So by the 718 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: time there was two thousand fifteen came along to the 719 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: top of sixteen that I got this offer, and being 720 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: a producer was included H. Brad Wright, who created the show, 721 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: which it was just really really wanted to make me 722 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: a part of it, to be a partner with me 723 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,880 Speaker 1: and bring me along. And I learned a lot from 724 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: the directors in that show. So then I finally got 725 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,879 Speaker 1: to direct a few episodes of it. It was fantastic. 726 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: It was fantastic, and I I've come to associate directing 727 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,240 Speaker 1: with directing everyone that you you know that knowing the crew, 728 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 1: did you direct some offices I can't remember you did, yeah, 729 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: and it's I mean, what was your experience? For me? 730 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: It was so comfortable, even though it was new and 731 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: it was a sci fi show not in exactly my area, 732 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: but I knew everybody and I knew they would have 733 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,839 Speaker 1: my back. That's exactly right, Yes, I knew I could. 734 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: I could for me to screw up, the episode could 735 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: still be great because of the other people involved and 736 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: that they would support me in whatever way, and then 737 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: if it was especially good, then that would only serve. 738 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: It was like I couldn't fail per se. And because 739 00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: the style of I mean, most shows have a style 740 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: that you can't be here too much from the the 741 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: office style, which I don't remember everyone anyone doing before 742 00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: that constant, the constant motion of the camera just going 743 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: to the one person and so they can give a 744 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 1: quick look to the camera going away. It was so 745 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: unique and so its own thing that I imagine that 746 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: that that deciding what the camera work is going to 747 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: be is the joke you know, you you know where 748 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 1: was with the sitcom. You have to make sure the 749 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: camera's pointed in the right way, but it's it's more 750 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,279 Speaker 1: in the editing that you make sure you have the joke, 751 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: but in your show, the joke was often what the 752 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: camera was doing and who it was landing on. That's right, 753 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: And and to what degree were people aware that they 754 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: were being filmed yet at any given moment? Was it 755 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: a spy? Was it not? Was the camera there? Or 756 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: how much are you interacting with that camera? Are they 757 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 1: on your team? Are you hiding from it? You know, 758 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:32,800 Speaker 1: all of those. Yeah, so it happens much more outside 759 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: of the editing room in that in that regard, yeah, Yeah, 760 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: The Travelers really was when I hoped would go a 761 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,480 Speaker 1: little longer. Three seasons still on Netflix, Still something I 762 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 1: recommend people check out. Yeah, around this time you say 763 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 1: you wanted it to go a little longer. Around this 764 00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,720 Speaker 1: time you start having discussions with Max and the folks 765 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,839 Speaker 1: at Will and Grace about coming back. Were you surprised 766 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: about this? Was this something that had been discussed? No, 767 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, the word reboot was pretty 768 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: new to the lexicon at that point, and we had 769 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,319 Speaker 1: to be finished in two thousands six, I mean eleven years. Yeah, 770 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,839 Speaker 1: it was over. Yeah, what changed it? I do love 771 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: this story is that Max had sent the entire set 772 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: complete with all the set dressing to Emerson College, his 773 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:29,799 Speaker 1: alma mater, and it was set up there for ten 774 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 1: years in the library as the thing that people would 775 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 1: look at. And eventually they needed space, and they happened 776 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: to be in two thousands sixteen, the spring of sixteen 777 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: that they called it. Look, we're gonna spend ten years. 778 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 1: Can you take your setback? And as opposed to this 779 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: being like an oh ship, what am I gonna do 780 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: with this? He flew setback on his own time, had 781 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: it set up secretly in the basement one of the 782 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 1: basements of the studios at Radford, and called us and said, 783 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: would you do a little would you come back into 784 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: a little video? Um basically, I mean it was called 785 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,799 Speaker 1: just get out of the Vote, but really it was 786 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,800 Speaker 1: for Hillary. It was for trying to stave off everything 787 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 1: that happened. And we all said, god, sure, okay. They 788 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: wrote this very funny little ten minute YouTube script and 789 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,120 Speaker 1: the amazing thing we came back together and somehow, like 790 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 1: none of us had changed that much, we kind of 791 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: pulled it off. We looked like slightly older versions of 792 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,919 Speaker 1: how we finished and it worked so well, this little 793 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,760 Speaker 1: ten and a bit that we just dropped on the internet. 794 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,560 Speaker 1: That NBC called us and said, let's talk about this. 795 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: So miraculously it happened at all, but particularly for me, 796 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 1: it happened in tandem with Travelers, and I had two 797 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,719 Speaker 1: years to this, seventeen and eighteen where I was doing 798 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 1: both shows in two different countries, and it was fantastic. 799 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: I was never been happier. Wow. Do you feel like 800 00:45:55,000 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: the characters changed. The intent was that the fee all 801 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:04,120 Speaker 1: of the show, the look of the show would not change. 802 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:05,960 Speaker 1: That it would be like, oh my god, Will and 803 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 1: Grace hasn't gone anywhere, but that we the writers would 804 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 1: write to our age, you know, whether it be needing 805 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: classes or not understanding the young people. And so I 806 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 1: think it was it was a mix of both. For me, 807 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: what I had to get my head around it was 808 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 1: we we finished in two thousand and six with the 809 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,959 Speaker 1: idea that I was married and Grace was married. And 810 00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,399 Speaker 1: they came up with this notion in the very first 811 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: scene of the of the new episode back where that 812 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: was all just a dream, kind of like what's his 813 00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 1: name in the shower on Dallas Um And I'm just 814 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: glad they did because it wouldn't have been the show 815 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: if we just were trying to tell Will and Grace 816 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,879 Speaker 1: plus children, it wouldn't have. So I like that we 817 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: were that the story we were telling. Now is there 818 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:55,360 Speaker 1: freaking fifty and still single, And that was a different 819 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,680 Speaker 1: demographic to talk to because there's a lot of people 820 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: out there single a fifty or forced or whatever, so 821 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: that it's it was nice to just show what that is. 822 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,920 Speaker 1: You're not just running around like sex in the city 823 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,040 Speaker 1: and everyone's thirty two. It's um, now we have a 824 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: higher states. Were you proud of it? I was proud 825 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: of the reboot. First of all, every department head came back, everybody. 826 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 1: That's incredible. It really was. So there was definitely a 827 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 1: feeling of this is ours we have. This isn't commerce. 828 00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,280 Speaker 1: This is hopefully the converse down the road for people, 829 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,839 Speaker 1: but right now this is us taking ownership of our 830 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: thing and not somebody else rebooting it down the road. 831 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, there was a lot of pride in that. 832 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: It felt to me like a chapter of a novel, 833 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 1: like's I guess when I when a sequel comes along 834 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,840 Speaker 1: or something and you think that movie doesn't need a sequel, 835 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: that movie is fine just as it is, and then 836 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: you love the sequel. You Yeah, that's pretty good. I mean, 837 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: I I'm glad we had a chance to be them again, 838 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: even if it was just for a few years. Yeah, 839 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:07,359 Speaker 1: you and Sean have a new podcast coming out, just 840 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:11,719 Speaker 1: Jack and Will rewatch podcast with Will and Grace. Have 841 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: you guys started recording those yet? Not yet? Not yet. 842 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,640 Speaker 1: I've been, um, I've actually been doing a podcast that 843 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: is about to launch with Stephen Webber where we're talking. 844 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: We're just actors eating and talking, and I would love 845 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,239 Speaker 1: to have you on that. Yeah, so we'll just have 846 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,120 Speaker 1: each other just podcast with each other for the rest 847 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: of you. Nobody ever has to hire it, but Deshan. 848 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 1: I I'm excided that Sean came to me and said, 849 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:37,439 Speaker 1: look this any referenced the office ladies, you know, your 850 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,000 Speaker 1: your pals just looking at episodes and remembering, and it's 851 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,719 Speaker 1: just such a there's such a market in it now. 852 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,400 Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of in our day. There was 853 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,920 Speaker 1: a show while it was on the air, would have reruns, 854 00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,759 Speaker 1: you know during the summer. That's kind of gone. I 855 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: don't I don't know who watches this show again the 856 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 1: same time. But the idea that shows are being discovered 857 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 1: your show friends really really reads ever by a whole 858 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,560 Speaker 1: different generation because of streaming, has just created a whole 859 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: different thirst for for talking about them and referencing them. 860 00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,399 Speaker 1: And so what I discovered I had lunch with Sean 861 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: then ongoing, and I confess that if it's on, I'm 862 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: gonna watch it. It's gonna watch our show. And he said, yeah, 863 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,440 Speaker 1: I never have. He said, I've never seen any of 864 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: the episodes except for maybe the first time they aired 865 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,759 Speaker 1: twenty years ago. I said, you were joking, Well, then 866 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,880 Speaker 1: that's the show. The show is you seeing the show 867 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,319 Speaker 1: really for the first time through new eyes and me 868 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,840 Speaker 1: knowing it too too. Well, Well, first of all, that's awesome. 869 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if you did this when back in 870 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:48,840 Speaker 1: the day. Again, I don't. This doesn't happen anymore with streaming. 871 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:52,360 Speaker 1: But there were the DVDs. Yeah, and we used to 872 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: get called in the summer when the DVD when they 873 00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: were because they were looking for basically, they didn't want 874 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: the DVD to say this is episodes one through six. 875 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,479 Speaker 1: They wanted bonus material away, and so then we would 876 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 1: do some you know, basically commentary while the episode was 877 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:16,960 Speaker 1: happening on that Here's what I always found. It was 878 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 1: a mess because they would get like eight people and 879 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,279 Speaker 1: everybody would be talking over each other and it would 880 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 1: last twenty one at minutes and then it would be done. 881 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,399 Speaker 1: And I don't think anybody learned anything, but this really 882 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,399 Speaker 1: gives an opportunity to talk about what was going on 883 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 1: behind the scene. So good for you. Yeah, I think 884 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,000 Speaker 1: I think it'll be fun. And also, I just my 885 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,600 Speaker 1: favorite thing is bloopers. I've been following off the office 886 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:45,040 Speaker 1: bloopers on Instagram and at least twice a day. There's 887 00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:48,520 Speaker 1: something that just because you guys would break each other up, yes, 888 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,320 Speaker 1: so much, So I don't I don't love bloopers that 889 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,799 Speaker 1: are just people forgetting their lines. I like when people 890 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,360 Speaker 1: remember their lines and it's they're so funny that the 891 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 1: other promotion just can't keep a straight place. And that 892 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: was your show was so often well yeah, well basically 893 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: it was a secret, hidden competition to try to get 894 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: the other person to laugh. Did you guys have that 895 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,000 Speaker 1: or were you more restrained and well behaved? Because there 896 00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,160 Speaker 1: was there was not so much because Jimmy brows like, 897 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,439 Speaker 1: we would shoot the whole thing in front of one 898 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,040 Speaker 1: live audience and that better not be over four hours 899 00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: or were it's gonna so you you you messed around 900 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,920 Speaker 1: a little, for sure, and we do have some great bloopers, 901 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,600 Speaker 1: but you couldn't make it go on and on. Whereas 902 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: I sensed with you guys that I like, I saw 903 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,400 Speaker 1: him in a day where um, Steve was he clearly 904 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,000 Speaker 1: done his sheet, said what he had to say, but 905 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,520 Speaker 1: he just kept going and no one was gonna yell 906 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,120 Speaker 1: cut just to see who was going to break And 907 00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: it was so much fun. Fun. It was so much 908 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,719 Speaker 1: fun because he would often break himself up, which, really, sure, 909 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 1: that's the greatest. Where do you think Will and Gray 910 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 1: stands in that line of great musty TV shows? I mean, 911 00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: that's such a stupid question, right, what does that mean? 912 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:03,040 Speaker 1: It's only stupid that it's not for me to decide, 913 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:10,200 Speaker 1: but it's it's um for me. I think that's unlike Friends, 914 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,040 Speaker 1: it was not an instant hit. It didn't burst out 915 00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 1: of Monday Nights at nine thirty and change the world. 916 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,680 Speaker 1: It's it was a slow burn and I feel like 917 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,080 Speaker 1: you know, you see these days, I know it's like 918 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,120 Speaker 1: this past year there was a top one dst Important 919 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,600 Speaker 1: Shows of all time thing. We didn't make it, but 920 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, a show from last year. Maybe it's like, well, 921 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,799 Speaker 1: sure and we'll we'll see, we'll see. It's a test 922 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,319 Speaker 1: of time thing. I don't know. I think that the 923 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: that's uh, not every episode, but there are certain episodes 924 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,880 Speaker 1: of Willing Grace that will stand among the best stuff 925 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: for a long time. That's that's my feal. Well, you 926 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,719 Speaker 1: didn't say it, but I'll say it. I talked to 927 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,239 Speaker 1: you about the Emmy before and yeah, you know, there's 928 00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,880 Speaker 1: certain things you're supposed to say, and it's just an 929 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,439 Speaker 1: award and it's a really about the work or blah 930 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,319 Speaker 1: blah blah. But here's the thing to me that's really 931 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,320 Speaker 1: cool about yours is, yeah, you mentioned that will head 932 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,760 Speaker 1: quirks and finding those idiosyncrasies as season two, et cetera 933 00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:19,560 Speaker 1: went along. But I think one of the hardest things 934 00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:24,719 Speaker 1: in comedy is to be that character that may haam 935 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:29,120 Speaker 1: happens around right. It's like, and on your show there 936 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:35,160 Speaker 1: were certainly two and a half swirling tornadoes that were 937 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: happening around you at all times. But what that means 938 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,279 Speaker 1: is you have to be you have to steer the 939 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:48,720 Speaker 1: ship and it only is funny in relation to everybody else, 940 00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: and you stayed so you were just so strong staying 941 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:58,319 Speaker 1: in the middle of those hurricanes, tornadoes or whatever that 942 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: your work was just so at I've always admired your 943 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,600 Speaker 1: work and appreciated you and uh and and you're role 944 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:10,400 Speaker 1: on that show, So congratulations on all the success. I'm 945 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,399 Speaker 1: very excited to see your new show, The Other Black Girl, 946 00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,439 Speaker 1: our new show, you your other news show. Well, I'm 947 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,880 Speaker 1: excited to see it. I um, it'll be very interesting. 948 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,600 Speaker 1: The tone again, without giving anything away, the tone is 949 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 1: very different, but I'm used to that, so we'll see 950 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,799 Speaker 1: how it goes. But it's been such a pleasure to 951 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,200 Speaker 1: work with you and to get to know you too, 952 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:40,120 Speaker 1: and and uh and just great yaks on this. Thank you. 953 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:41,839 Speaker 1: How many of these you've done, and how many people 954 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,680 Speaker 1: are listening? Well, thank you. I want to sit down 955 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,680 Speaker 1: with you and Stephen Webber soon. What is the name 956 00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,319 Speaker 1: of that podcast at this point, we're calling it because 957 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,160 Speaker 1: because it's about it's about dining, we call it Eating 958 00:54:54,160 --> 00:55:01,120 Speaker 1: Out with American Stephen Eating Out. I'm gonna let that sit. Um. So, 959 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,240 Speaker 1: but we've done about ten You've got some great people 960 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,279 Speaker 1: on and we just wanted we just love mixing and 961 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,480 Speaker 1: matching actors and actresses and and this, it's a lot 962 00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,279 Speaker 1: of this. It's just I love. I'll never get tired 963 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:18,960 Speaker 1: of hearing the stories of people in in high school, college, whatever, 964 00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,320 Speaker 1: it was bad stories that the worst, the worst experience 965 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,120 Speaker 1: you ever had, the actors that were terrible to you, 966 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: never retforded. Thank you so much. I will see you 967 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,440 Speaker 1: in Hotlanta. Okay, brother, very soon, Thank you, my friend. 968 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: Bye ry Eric, thank you so much for stopping by today. 969 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,720 Speaker 1: It's been so great getting to know you. I'm glad 970 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,560 Speaker 1: that the cats finally out of the bag with the 971 00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,279 Speaker 1: other black girl coming to a theater set near you 972 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: very soon. It's been awesome working with you. I look 973 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,399 Speaker 1: forward to our next meal. Listeners, thanks for tuning in 974 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,480 Speaker 1: to another episode of Off the Beat next week. Well, 975 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,800 Speaker 1: we've got another new friend of mine coming on. Let's 976 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:22,319 Speaker 1: just say she has some political power. Until then, have 977 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:35,920 Speaker 1: a fantastic week. Off the Beat is hosted an executive 978 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,800 Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. 979 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,240 Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, 980 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,320 Speaker 1: Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan, 981 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,560 Speaker 1: Papa Zachary and our intern is Sammy Cats. Our theme 982 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,320 Speaker 1: song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and Only 983 00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,200 Speaker 1: Creed Brandon M