WEBVTT - Ben Folds 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:26.436 Pushkin. This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. 0:00:26.636 --> 0:00:34.156 I'm justin Richmondson. Hey y'all. We'll be back on our 0:00:34.196 --> 0:00:38.036 normal schedule next week, dropping new episodes on Tuesday, but 0:00:38.156 --> 0:00:39.796 we wanted to share with you an episode we didn't 0:00:39.796 --> 0:00:42.716 get a chance to run last year but still really enjoyed. 0:00:43.116 --> 0:00:46.836 It's Bruce Headlam speaking to singer, songwriter, pianist nineties alt 0:00:46.916 --> 0:00:50.316 rocker Ben Folds. Folds is best known for the music 0:00:50.316 --> 0:00:52.076 he put out with The ben Folds Five in the 0:00:52.076 --> 0:00:55.276 mid nineties, particularly for the song Brick, which was a 0:00:55.316 --> 0:00:58.196 bit of a surprise hit in nineteen ninety eight. Who 0:00:58.276 --> 0:01:01.156 was also known for his onstage antics, like smashing a 0:01:01.276 --> 0:01:04.556 priceless Steinway piano on national TV in Australia that got 0:01:04.636 --> 0:01:08.356 him dropped from a Steinway endorsement. Folds talks with Bruce 0:01:08.396 --> 0:01:11.196 about the genesis of these angsty stage antics, and also 0:01:11.196 --> 0:01:13.676 about the making of the song Brick, and other anecdotes 0:01:13.716 --> 0:01:15.756 gleaned from the book he wrote about his life and craft, 0:01:16.036 --> 0:01:20.236 called A Dream About Lightning Books. Enjoy this episode. It 0:01:20.316 --> 0:01:22.556 was taped pre pandemic, so Bruce and Folds are on 0:01:22.636 --> 0:01:25.516 the same studio and we'll see you next week. You 0:01:25.596 --> 0:01:28.236 mentioned in the book that you are both a hard 0:01:28.236 --> 0:01:32.676 worker and completely undisciplined. Right now, you've written an enormous 0:01:32.716 --> 0:01:36.836 number of songs. Your last record also had a piano concerto. 0:01:36.876 --> 0:01:39.716 You've written different kinds of music. What was it like 0:01:39.796 --> 0:01:44.156 writing a book as opposed to writing songs? Interestingly, I 0:01:44.316 --> 0:01:47.876 found discipline writing the book that I hadn't found in 0:01:47.956 --> 0:01:51.116 writing songs. And I think it actually came down to 0:01:51.196 --> 0:01:53.676 something I had read Stephen King said about if you 0:01:53.716 --> 0:01:57.476 want to write a book, sit down in the morning, 0:01:57.916 --> 0:02:01.076 shut the door and write two or three thousand words 0:02:01.076 --> 0:02:03.276 that should get chupped about two o'clock, go get lunch 0:02:03.316 --> 0:02:06.636 and forget about it. And I thought, oh, well, he 0:02:06.676 --> 0:02:08.636 knows how to write a book. I'll just do that. 0:02:09.236 --> 0:02:12.156 And I went to my office, shut the door, and 0:02:12.196 --> 0:02:14.396 I wrote for three or four hours, like Stephen King said. Now, 0:02:14.436 --> 0:02:16.916 I've never written music that way. So that is discipline 0:02:16.916 --> 0:02:19.956 that I found. But I think it is a distinction. 0:02:20.596 --> 0:02:23.716 I work hard, not because I was taught discipline or 0:02:23.796 --> 0:02:26.796 I have a good knack for discipline. I'm just simply driven. 0:02:27.076 --> 0:02:28.876 And I think that's a harder way to do it. 0:02:28.916 --> 0:02:30.836 I think it's better if you have a Sergeant Rock 0:02:30.916 --> 0:02:33.116 inside guilting the hell out of you if you're not 0:02:33.196 --> 0:02:35.476 getting up early in the morning and doing your sit 0:02:35.556 --> 0:02:38.076 ups in your meditation and then going straight into the 0:02:38.156 --> 0:02:40.036 room right in your morning page. It's not all that stuff. 0:02:40.076 --> 0:02:43.076 I think that's a that's an enviable thing. But when 0:02:43.156 --> 0:02:45.476 it comes to music, I'm awful. I have to have 0:02:45.556 --> 0:02:47.956 the deadline after have people breathing down my knack. That 0:02:47.996 --> 0:02:49.316 has to be a drama about I'm not going to 0:02:49.356 --> 0:02:51.156 turn it in on time. And it's the worst thing 0:02:51.196 --> 0:02:53.556 I've ever written, and you can't make me turn it 0:02:53.596 --> 0:02:55.916 in on time. And I'm going to take this from 0:02:55.916 --> 0:02:58.596 my goal. Cold dead fingers and all this. I just 0:02:58.716 --> 0:03:02.476 you know, but the book everything I got in before time. 0:03:02.996 --> 0:03:06.556 I drove the project and I was disciplined. Have you 0:03:06.596 --> 0:03:08.756 tried to apply that to music since or just it 0:03:08.836 --> 0:03:11.116 does just a different thing doesn't work. I don't know. 0:03:11.676 --> 0:03:13.836 It's it's hard to it's hard to turn that around. 0:03:13.916 --> 0:03:17.996 It's hard to turn you know, like not spring Chicken. 0:03:18.036 --> 0:03:20.636 I've got my drama habits. I have to be late 0:03:20.676 --> 0:03:22.796 with my projects and all this stuff. It's just the 0:03:22.796 --> 0:03:25.036 way I seem to roll. I did try. I mean 0:03:25.076 --> 0:03:28.356 I put in my calendar, I'll put a little music signs. 0:03:28.396 --> 0:03:30.356 I drew them all over my calendar for this year. 0:03:30.396 --> 0:03:32.036 These are the days I'm going to write music because 0:03:32.036 --> 0:03:34.796 I thought I would learn from my book writing that 0:03:34.796 --> 0:03:38.676 I've done it. Now that done nothing. No, I'm terrible. Okay, yeah, 0:03:39.076 --> 0:03:41.676 well it's different. It's not terrible. Trying to say terrible. 0:03:41.716 --> 0:03:46.036 I find it. I judge it terrible, but thank you. 0:03:46.076 --> 0:03:49.236 I'll take that in Speaking of judging. Uh, you know, 0:03:49.276 --> 0:03:50.716 I remember when you first came out with a lot 0:03:50.756 --> 0:03:54.076 of people thought, well, you know, he's like a college guy. Yeah, 0:03:54.516 --> 0:03:56.836 which was It is never a compliment when it comes 0:03:56.876 --> 0:03:59.876 to rock music because people somehow think college it's rock 0:03:59.956 --> 0:04:02.836 music out of you. But you would have really chaotic 0:04:03.436 --> 0:04:08.196 yeah upbringing, you know, and your family head chaos. Going back, 0:04:08.236 --> 0:04:11.356 your your and your grandmother were both left at orphanages 0:04:11.396 --> 0:04:14.316 for a time. Your grandfather threatened to kill your father 0:04:14.396 --> 0:04:18.156 at some point. What was it like growing up in 0:04:18.196 --> 0:04:21.156 that kind of atmosphere. Well, you know, the reason that 0:04:21.196 --> 0:04:24.956 I put a lot of that stuff in was if 0:04:24.996 --> 0:04:27.356 I was going to say, I would like to teach 0:04:27.396 --> 0:04:31.436 people about creativity, but I'm not an expert on creativity 0:04:31.516 --> 0:04:33.676 outside of my own. So it's like, Okay, well, the 0:04:33.716 --> 0:04:36.356 best way to do this is to tell how I 0:04:36.396 --> 0:04:39.156 did it. But then it's like you almost kind of 0:04:39.156 --> 0:04:42.556 want to do a little almost ethnographic study of how 0:04:42.596 --> 0:04:45.396 did I get there? And so I looked back at 0:04:45.516 --> 0:04:50.756 the momentum that had propelled me into being a person 0:04:50.836 --> 0:04:53.396 that that how I was born, what I was born into, 0:04:53.996 --> 0:04:58.196 and what I see is an incredible firewall that my 0:04:58.316 --> 0:05:07.556 parents threw up between their abusive upbringings and mine. Incredible. 0:05:07.596 --> 0:05:10.196 I mean, they say the cycles is impossible to breakers, 0:05:10.276 --> 0:05:12.916 very difficult break. My parents show that to be wrong, 0:05:13.276 --> 0:05:16.676 I mean, and they had me very young, and it's 0:05:16.716 --> 0:05:21.516 the clean slate which is part of the part of 0:05:21.516 --> 0:05:23.916 the chaos of my upbringing. So the fact that all 0:05:23.956 --> 0:05:26.556 that stuff happened and was of interest in all this 0:05:26.836 --> 0:05:30.916 energy of craziness in my parents upbringing and then boom 0:05:30.916 --> 0:05:33.916 it comes to my brother and I are are born, 0:05:34.156 --> 0:05:36.636 and they just played it all by ear and cut 0:05:36.636 --> 0:05:38.956 all that off. And I think that that I felt 0:05:38.956 --> 0:05:41.996 that like I've felt the upbringings of my father being 0:05:41.996 --> 0:05:44.516 held up at knife point and gunpoint, and my grandfather 0:05:44.556 --> 0:05:46.876 killed himself. But I never really met my grandfather, and 0:05:46.916 --> 0:05:49.436 I wasn't around for those things, but it does by 0:05:49.476 --> 0:05:52.396 osmosis sink in, and you know that that we moved 0:05:52.436 --> 0:05:57.716 every years. You know, my father just probably clean slate 0:05:57.756 --> 0:05:59.956 in it every year, trying to survive, you know. I 0:05:59.956 --> 0:06:02.876 mean a lot of people don't survive mentally what he 0:06:02.916 --> 0:06:07.316 went through and he did so, like amazingly. Was it 0:06:07.396 --> 0:06:09.836 responsible for a bit of your a year drive and 0:06:09.876 --> 0:06:12.956 be on the other hand, your lack of discipline, Well, 0:06:12.956 --> 0:06:16.556 I think my lack of discipline was the trade off 0:06:16.596 --> 0:06:20.236 for my parents being so open minded. So, like, what's 0:06:20.276 --> 0:06:22.156 today going to be? I don't know, it's no schedule. 0:06:22.916 --> 0:06:25.996 Did you get to school? You got to school. That's good. Oh, 0:06:26.036 --> 0:06:28.076 you liked that song on the radio. Well, you don't 0:06:28.116 --> 0:06:30.676 have to go to school until noon. You can listen 0:06:30.716 --> 0:06:32.916 to that song. You liked that song. Yeah, you told 0:06:32.916 --> 0:06:35.876 the story. Your mother let you stay late because you 0:06:35.916 --> 0:06:37.876 liked the song in the ray Paul Simon song called 0:06:37.916 --> 0:06:39.996 love Me Like a Rock. I love that song. I 0:06:40.036 --> 0:06:41.796 was waiting for that to come on since six in 0:06:41.836 --> 0:06:44.556 the morning. I woke up early, had my transistor radio 0:06:44.556 --> 0:06:46.836 on the ear. I had requested at the radio station. 0:06:46.876 --> 0:06:48.876 They said they were going to play it. Seven o'clock 0:06:48.956 --> 0:06:51.636 rolled around, they still hadn't played it. Eight o'clock and 0:06:51.676 --> 0:06:53.316 then I'm like, they haven't played the song, but they're 0:06:53.316 --> 0:06:56.196 gonna play it after commercial ms. I find I don't 0:06:56.196 --> 0:06:58.356 have to go to school. It's wonderful, it's great, but 0:06:58.396 --> 0:07:01.836 it's not exactly a discipline lifestyle. No, But you were 0:07:01.916 --> 0:07:06.076 very driven from an early age on the piano. Yeah. Yeah, 0:07:06.196 --> 0:07:09.996 And as you describe it in the book, you would 0:07:09.996 --> 0:07:12.876 listen to your radio at night, yeah, and then you 0:07:12.876 --> 0:07:16.196 would get up and you didn't I don't quite understand. 0:07:16.196 --> 0:07:18.716 You said you didn't play by ear, but you somehow 0:07:18.756 --> 0:07:21.796 fumbled through to figure out the song. So what was that? Well, 0:07:21.836 --> 0:07:24.636 I didn't really get there. That's the problem is that 0:07:24.636 --> 0:07:26.716 that's not where I arrived. Like I listened to the 0:07:26.836 --> 0:07:28.796 radio and I would hear these songs like a real 0:07:28.876 --> 0:07:31.676 simple one, that lou Rawl song that goes you'll never 0:07:31.796 --> 0:07:40.116 find simple all that is is. But I couldn't find it, 0:07:40.156 --> 0:07:41.836 you know, because you don't know what you're looking for. 0:07:41.876 --> 0:07:45.596 As a kid, I never had a vocabulary early on 0:07:45.636 --> 0:07:47.876 to learn other people's songs. So even though I wanted to, 0:07:47.956 --> 0:07:49.356 and I mentioned that in the book, that. Yeah, I'm 0:07:49.356 --> 0:07:51.036 going to play all these songs when I wake up. 0:07:51.356 --> 0:07:55.196 There is actually a method. I believe you should learn 0:07:55.276 --> 0:07:58.876 to play by ear. It's not something that just happens 0:07:58.916 --> 0:08:01.196 out of thin air. And I found it very frustrating. 0:08:01.236 --> 0:08:02.956 That's why I broke a lot of stuff growing up. 0:08:02.996 --> 0:08:05.076 I threw a lot of fits when I was a kid. 0:08:05.076 --> 0:08:08.796 I threw my punched holes in walls, I broke furniture 0:08:09.276 --> 0:08:12.036 in trouble constantly for it. Because I couldn't play something 0:08:12.076 --> 0:08:13.716 on the piano. I would listen to it and go, oh, 0:08:13.716 --> 0:08:15.996 I should be able to play that. Well, where do 0:08:16.036 --> 0:08:19.196 you start? I never knew, And so what were you 0:08:19.236 --> 0:08:21.556 playing in those days you weren't playing? I would find 0:08:22.476 --> 0:08:25.436 that was the song lou roll song. That's right, you're 0:08:25.516 --> 0:08:31.756 gonna miss my singing. I love that song? Yeah, um yeah, 0:08:31.796 --> 0:08:35.556 I mean I ended up finding my own songs, you know. 0:08:35.556 --> 0:08:38.276 I would search for things and try to play. Started 0:08:38.356 --> 0:08:40.836 off doing a lot of noise, you know, which I 0:08:40.876 --> 0:08:43.236 would recommend for kids. I actually think it's really good. 0:08:43.236 --> 0:08:45.036 It's like throwing your food or putting your hands in 0:08:45.076 --> 0:08:47.316 food when you were like, you know, eighteen months old 0:08:47.396 --> 0:08:51.476 or something. That's something you should probably do um. And 0:08:51.516 --> 0:08:53.476 then I would, you know, I would start to find 0:08:53.556 --> 0:08:55.836 things that I could that I could play it, and 0:08:55.876 --> 0:08:57.956 I made them up, like I remember one that went 0:09:04.796 --> 0:09:07.316 that's really it was based around a little theme like 0:09:07.356 --> 0:09:23.236 that I'm trying to play like a child. And I 0:09:23.276 --> 0:09:24.996 mean I made that up when I was about eight 0:09:25.076 --> 0:09:27.556 or nine, and it's got interesting chords in it and 0:09:27.596 --> 0:09:30.916 it's cool. But I wasn't finding I wasn't able to find, 0:09:31.756 --> 0:09:34.556 you know, the Elton John song I might want to find. 0:09:34.636 --> 0:09:37.316 To this day, I can play one of his songs 0:09:37.316 --> 0:09:39.676 on the pianos because I learned it to play with him, 0:09:39.716 --> 0:09:41.756 and I had to really work at it. I don't 0:09:41.836 --> 0:09:45.076 learn other people's stuff very well. I found my own stuff, 0:09:45.516 --> 0:09:48.036 and I found years later Elton John talked to you 0:09:48.036 --> 0:09:50.316 how to play one of his songs. Now I learned 0:09:50.316 --> 0:09:52.636 it myself. I was just like, we're He's like, let's 0:09:52.676 --> 0:09:56.636 play a tiny dancer together, and so I learned it. 0:09:56.676 --> 0:09:58.556 I learned a couple other of his songs actually, come 0:09:58.636 --> 0:09:59.836 to think of it, because I did a couple of 0:09:59.876 --> 0:10:01.876 gigs with him, but they were always really had to 0:10:01.876 --> 0:10:05.076 put the time into it, because you know, like someone 0:10:05.116 --> 0:10:09.956 like Rufus wain Rice is really really confident about his singing. 0:10:10.036 --> 0:10:12.356 You know, he's such a great singer. And I remember 0:10:12.356 --> 0:10:15.196 we both did a thing with Elton in a Broadway 0:10:15.516 --> 0:10:19.636 theater where we were playing Goodbye Yell Brick Road in 0:10:19.716 --> 0:10:22.756 his entirety and Jake from Scissor Sisters, and there's a 0:10:22.756 --> 0:10:25.796 couple of things, a really neat little show, and I 0:10:25.916 --> 0:10:28.276 was to sign two of his songs, and I worked 0:10:28.276 --> 0:10:31.276 on it for two days, all day long in the hotel, 0:10:31.556 --> 0:10:34.196 and then when I got there, I realized that all 0:10:34.236 --> 0:10:36.796 all Rufus was doing it was just reading off the teleprompter. 0:10:37.516 --> 0:10:40.076 He didn't really know the song. Rufus didn't know the 0:10:40.116 --> 0:10:43.996 song Goodbye Yell Brick Road. He just kind of didn't 0:10:43.996 --> 0:10:45.796 know it. He was just reading the words and his 0:10:45.956 --> 0:10:47.916 melody was coming out as he just kind of thought 0:10:47.956 --> 0:10:50.236 he should do it. And I remember thinking, God, I 0:10:50.316 --> 0:10:52.996 worked so hard. They're trying to find that and he's 0:10:53.076 --> 0:10:55.236 killing it. But he's just doing his own thing. You know, 0:10:56.996 --> 0:11:00.076 even though I seem cavalier as a musician, when there's 0:11:00.116 --> 0:11:02.516 something I need to do, i'd really try hard to 0:11:02.556 --> 0:11:04.636 find it, and I work hard to find it, you know, right, 0:11:04.756 --> 0:11:08.036 this is the hard worker. The hard work necessarily discipline. 0:11:08.076 --> 0:11:10.236 If I had been disciplined, I would have learned how 0:11:10.276 --> 0:11:12.716 to actually learn. But I didn't learn how to learn. 0:11:12.756 --> 0:11:14.396 I have to like sit down and figure that out. 0:11:15.236 --> 0:11:17.076 You were also a drummer when you were young. Yea, 0:11:17.756 --> 0:11:19.196 and you say at some point in the book that 0:11:19.236 --> 0:11:23.076 you you sort of played the piano like a drummer. Yes. 0:11:23.156 --> 0:11:25.956 Can you show me what you mean by that? Yeah? Well, 0:11:25.996 --> 0:11:28.196 there's two things that are really lucky about the way 0:11:29.676 --> 0:11:33.516 my piano playing developed. Because I was I did have 0:11:33.676 --> 0:11:38.196 a lot of lessons, and I did study percussion, So 0:11:38.316 --> 0:11:43.476 my percussion chops pretty real. My piano stuff is really spotty. 0:11:43.636 --> 0:11:45.796 Think why when I start to talk about my development 0:11:45.836 --> 0:11:49.036 on the piano, I really kind of go into outer space. 0:11:49.156 --> 0:11:51.076 I can't really explain it, you know, like we've been 0:11:51.116 --> 0:11:53.596 talking about it. I'd say I've the least articulate about that. 0:11:53.836 --> 0:11:56.836 If I'm if I'm explaining percussion drums, Oh yeah, I 0:11:56.836 --> 0:12:00.236 can do that. What I play and what's common from 0:12:00.236 --> 0:12:03.876 my eras as a battery percussionist is called left hand lead, 0:12:04.436 --> 0:12:08.116 and it's left hand lead because people marched, so all 0:12:08.116 --> 0:12:13.156 of the what they call the rudiments of percussion called 0:12:13.396 --> 0:12:16.596 funny things like radom accuse and paradiddles. I don't know 0:12:16.596 --> 0:12:20.236 if you've heard flamma diddles. All this stuff is all military, 0:12:21.196 --> 0:12:23.636 but it's actually really good for putting you through the paces. 0:12:23.676 --> 0:12:26.636 But it's a left hand lead when most people aren't 0:12:26.716 --> 0:12:29.716 left handed. That's because you march left right, left right, 0:12:29.756 --> 0:12:32.716 and that's why we do that. So I was learning 0:12:32.716 --> 0:12:35.396 percussion totally left hand lead like I was supposed to, 0:12:36.276 --> 0:12:41.876 which has really great benefit for the piano. For for instance, 0:12:41.916 --> 0:12:46.036 you know, just going left or right, it's like just 0:12:46.076 --> 0:12:48.716 to play rock and roll music, I'm not grounded at 0:12:48.756 --> 0:12:50.636 the top of the piano. It's always going to happen 0:12:50.676 --> 0:12:53.396 at the bottom first. And that might seem small, but 0:12:53.676 --> 0:12:55.956 you know, to me, to hear my groove on the piano, 0:12:57.196 --> 0:12:59.836 well it's much better than most piano players, just because 0:13:00.356 --> 0:13:03.276 even if they were drummers, they might be more right handed, 0:13:03.316 --> 0:13:06.316 but because I was trained that way. So on the piano, 0:13:06.356 --> 0:13:10.236 for instance, if you're if you're a common right handed drummer, 0:13:11.196 --> 0:13:15.116 you're working against the left handed lead method, which means 0:13:15.116 --> 0:13:18.876 a lot of drum set players actually aren't. They're right handed, 0:13:18.876 --> 0:13:25.516 they're not exactly uh trained or skilled at at sort 0:13:25.516 --> 0:13:28.356 of stick control. Like most professional drummers I see, even 0:13:28.396 --> 0:13:30.276 really great ones. If you have them do a buzz role, 0:13:30.316 --> 0:13:33.156 it's really sketchy. It's not that good. Mine was kind 0:13:33.156 --> 0:13:36.196 of perfect after the first year of of of playing 0:13:36.236 --> 0:13:39.356 acause that was really serious about anyway. So so when 0:13:39.396 --> 0:13:43.156 when they when they go to play a ride pattern, okay, uh, 0:13:43.156 --> 0:13:46.516 this is all gonna get out of out when this 0:13:46.556 --> 0:13:49.076 is the stuff we love really Okay, if you're playing 0:13:49.116 --> 0:13:52.356 a ride pattern, you're a right handed drummer, you know 0:13:52.436 --> 0:13:54.516 that your right hand is going on the symbol or 0:13:54.516 --> 0:14:00.316 the high is going and then your left hand is 0:14:00.356 --> 0:14:05.756 on the snare drunk going to dot and you're let's see, 0:14:05.756 --> 0:14:08.156 it's your right foot is playing the bass drums. You're 0:14:08.196 --> 0:14:12.396 leading with your right foot right, left, right, left right, 0:14:12.556 --> 0:14:16.156 staring kick, staring right left. You're not going left, right, 0:14:16.236 --> 0:14:20.276 left right. I enjoyed already going left right, left, right 0:14:20.316 --> 0:14:22.836 because I had that old school stuff in my training, 0:14:22.836 --> 0:14:25.356 which was kind of unusual for said drummer. Then when 0:14:25.356 --> 0:14:28.196 you translate that to piano, then my left hand is 0:14:28.356 --> 0:14:30.356 the ride symbol right. So when I play a left 0:14:30.356 --> 0:14:32.716 handed kit, which is what I do, I'm a left 0:14:32.716 --> 0:14:36.916 handed drummer, my left hand is riding, which is very unusual, 0:14:36.956 --> 0:14:38.916 But for a piano player, it's a dream because I'm 0:14:38.956 --> 0:14:44.516 going with my left hand and I'm completely grounded that way, 0:14:44.716 --> 0:14:52.036 and if I wanted to go, I can. I can 0:14:52.036 --> 0:14:55.276 play syncope because I always have a root in my 0:14:55.396 --> 0:15:00.196 right hand hitting the downbeat. And most piano players are 0:15:00.516 --> 0:15:03.276 viewing this as a lot of different events like they're 0:15:03.316 --> 0:15:06.956 they're they're viewing it. That's one event. To me, just 0:15:07.116 --> 0:15:17.076 land on my left foot and I'm fine. That's That's 0:15:17.116 --> 0:15:21.156 easy for me because I've played left hand lead, left 0:15:21.156 --> 0:15:23.436 hand drums set and when I applied that to piano. 0:15:23.516 --> 0:15:25.996 With my piano concerto, the hardest things to do in 0:15:26.036 --> 0:15:30.036 it are just simply drummer things, left right rhythm things. 0:15:30.196 --> 0:15:32.916 You know, a piano player might find the piece difficult 0:15:32.956 --> 0:15:37.156 sometimes only because of the left right, left right stuff. 0:15:39.116 --> 0:15:43.676 For a piano player, they would expect more beautiful runs. Well, 0:15:43.716 --> 0:15:46.236 I don't really have an articulate beautiful run. I'm a 0:15:46.236 --> 0:15:49.116 percussive piano player. So my piano concerto starts with this 0:15:53.796 --> 0:15:56.236 and that, and all that is is just playing drums. 0:15:56.356 --> 0:16:07.036 I'm just going and it doesn't take much for me, 0:16:07.076 --> 0:16:13.076 but if I had to go, it's not a good scale. 0:16:13.076 --> 0:16:17.716 I'm not very good at that. Wow. Now, when you 0:16:17.716 --> 0:16:19.756 listen to other players, can you hear are there other 0:16:19.836 --> 0:16:23.076 left handed piano players you can hear and see? There 0:16:23.116 --> 0:16:27.316 are some piano players that are just more rooted in 0:16:27.356 --> 0:16:30.796 a drum set and they sound like that to me too. 0:16:30.876 --> 0:16:34.556 That come hit me from the top of head. Are 0:16:34.956 --> 0:16:39.036 Stevie Wonder when he plays drums and he plays piano 0:16:39.116 --> 0:16:41.676 that sounds very similar to me. And he said, and 0:16:42.156 --> 0:16:45.716 I don't think he probably plays left handed, but I 0:16:45.796 --> 0:16:47.756 suppose and from what I've heard, I've never seen him 0:16:47.756 --> 0:16:50.996 play drums that he's all over the shop because he 0:16:51.036 --> 0:16:54.116 can't see what he's doing. So he don't think he 0:16:54.156 --> 0:16:56.676 plays like a left or right handed drummer. So the 0:16:56.756 --> 0:16:58.716 left handed thing wouldn't come in, but the drum set 0:16:58.716 --> 0:17:01.396 thing definitely like you hear him play piano that sounds 0:17:01.396 --> 0:17:03.316 like a drum set. And I don't know if Billy 0:17:03.396 --> 0:17:09.116 Preston played drums or not, but he had a relentless 0:17:09.356 --> 0:17:12.396 groove at the keyboard, the kind that you don't hear 0:17:12.476 --> 0:17:15.236 many players these days have. And and I hate to 0:17:16.476 --> 0:17:19.356 you know I'm a different style and everything, and this 0:17:19.436 --> 0:17:21.716 is gonna sound very cocky, but I would place myself 0:17:21.756 --> 0:17:26.516 in that kind of in that small group of keyboard 0:17:26.516 --> 0:17:29.476 players that can actually play in time. If I would 0:17:29.476 --> 0:17:32.556 talk to people who played with you, what would they 0:17:32.556 --> 0:17:37.636 say about your sense of timing. Well, everyone's so damn opinionated. 0:17:37.716 --> 0:17:40.236 They think their time is perfect, So no one's going 0:17:40.276 --> 0:17:43.356 to completely agree with me. But I think most musicians 0:17:43.356 --> 0:17:47.396 would say I have good time as a As a 0:17:47.396 --> 0:17:50.756 piano player, I probably lean forward a little bit, so 0:17:50.876 --> 0:17:52.476 you're you're on top of the beating. I think I'm 0:17:52.516 --> 0:17:54.276 a little bit on top of the beat. But it 0:17:54.316 --> 0:17:57.276 depends on the song. I mean, I play solo piano 0:17:57.356 --> 0:17:59.916 so much, I'm allowed to play with the time, and 0:17:59.956 --> 0:18:02.596 I know that sometimes I choose to really pull it back. 0:18:02.796 --> 0:18:04.676 There's a song called still Finding It. When I get 0:18:04.676 --> 0:18:08.396 to the chorus and it's like, it's been about this 0:18:09.236 --> 0:18:15.396 tempo everybody. Oh, it's gone through this. Sorry, it's gone 0:18:15.436 --> 0:18:31.276 through that. Everybody established to get to the course. I'm 0:18:31.316 --> 0:18:33.796 just pulling back, especially on the twos and fours. That's 0:18:33.836 --> 0:18:37.356 just down right weird. Uh, That that one. I played 0:18:37.356 --> 0:18:39.316 all the instruments on the record, and I had a 0:18:39.396 --> 0:18:43.276 very concerned producers like, you're dragging so bad. So we 0:18:43.396 --> 0:18:50.276 re reprogrammed, you know, the grid to slow it down 0:18:50.396 --> 0:18:53.756 like five clicks. So it had to be programmed into 0:18:53.796 --> 0:18:56.516 the computer that I insisted at the computer following me 0:18:56.556 --> 0:18:58.836 and slow down. I like a time map like that. 0:18:58.876 --> 0:19:01.156 I think it is smart. We'll be right back with 0:19:01.236 --> 0:19:09.076 more from Ben Folds. We're back with Bruce Hedland's converse 0:19:09.716 --> 0:19:13.516 with Ben Folds, So I want to switch a little 0:19:13.516 --> 0:19:21.396 bit and talk about your lyrics. We haven't exhausted rhythm rhythm, uh, 0:19:22.116 --> 0:19:24.716 and we'll come back to it. But it's interesting you're 0:19:25.156 --> 0:19:29.316 We've talked a lot to a lot of singer songwriters 0:19:29.316 --> 0:19:32.636 on this show who hate the kind of label the 0:19:32.716 --> 0:19:37.956 confessional singer songwriter. No one's hung that on you, but 0:19:38.356 --> 0:19:47.116 you've written some incredibly deeply personal lyrics. Yeah. I think 0:19:47.156 --> 0:19:48.916 maybe part of the reason that hasn't been hung on 0:19:48.956 --> 0:19:52.716 me is I don't even think until recently, the words 0:19:52.716 --> 0:19:55.316 songwriter has been hung on me a lot. I think 0:19:55.316 --> 0:19:59.756 that I started off by treating the songs with almost disrespect, 0:19:59.796 --> 0:20:03.476 that my band distorted over them. We played too fast, 0:20:03.676 --> 0:20:07.116 we covered things up, we over arranged kind of because 0:20:07.116 --> 0:20:10.076 that was exciting to us. Saw that would have been 0:20:11.676 --> 0:20:13.636 if they were a Barry Manilow song or an Elton 0:20:13.676 --> 0:20:17.316 Johnson we were very seventies kind of those songs would 0:20:17.356 --> 0:20:20.676 have been treated with such respect, space for the vocal, 0:20:21.316 --> 0:20:24.636 you know, proper, proper production treatment. But we just stopped 0:20:24.636 --> 0:20:27.476 through them because that was the punk rock era and 0:20:27.636 --> 0:20:30.476 in a way we were maybe ashamed of the of 0:20:30.516 --> 0:20:34.356 the overthinking of the songs as a result. Kind of, 0:20:34.436 --> 0:20:36.756 I feel like in my career people didn't. Really my 0:20:36.836 --> 0:20:40.316 fans did, but in general I never really saw myself 0:20:40.876 --> 0:20:45.316 mentioned that often kind of as a songwriter. First usually 0:20:45.356 --> 0:20:48.316 it was about the showmanship or my piano playing, or 0:20:48.356 --> 0:20:51.116 the band, the fact that we didn't have a guitar. 0:20:51.636 --> 0:20:54.036 And then there was you know, a brick as brick 0:20:54.076 --> 0:20:55.916 as a hit, maybe about the fact that it was 0:20:55.956 --> 0:20:59.036 about an abortion, but not about the writing of it. 0:20:59.236 --> 0:21:02.076 Then you'd see someone I don't know, like like ohmy 0:21:02.156 --> 0:21:05.516 have mine, like Ryan Adams always talking about a songwriting, 0:21:05.556 --> 0:21:08.076 or Jeff Tweedy and always talking about their songwriting. So 0:21:08.156 --> 0:21:10.236 I don't really I think maybe some of it is 0:21:10.236 --> 0:21:13.556 because I was so cavalier about it that no matter 0:21:13.596 --> 0:21:16.276 what kind of song I wrote, that wasn't front and 0:21:16.276 --> 0:21:18.396 center of what people have talked about, So that that 0:21:18.436 --> 0:21:22.236 does make a difference, I think in perception. Also, my 0:21:22.316 --> 0:21:24.836 instinct was that if you're writing a song, and this 0:21:24.876 --> 0:21:26.756 is where I do a lot of thinking, if you're 0:21:26.796 --> 0:21:30.276 writing a song that is against someone like you did 0:21:30.276 --> 0:21:32.676 this and you did that, it's a real finger pointy song. 0:21:34.356 --> 0:21:39.436 We all way too often we demonize the person we're 0:21:39.436 --> 0:21:42.676 pointing the finger at. There are no redeeming qualities that person. 0:21:42.916 --> 0:21:44.876 And I love Fiona Apple, but like listening to a 0:21:44.916 --> 0:21:46.956 lot of songs, I mean the person she's singing about 0:21:47.356 --> 0:21:49.676 half the time that this maybe may as well be satan. 0:21:49.876 --> 0:21:51.236 I have a feeling if I met the guy, I 0:21:51.236 --> 0:21:54.036 could have a beer with him and actually find redeeming qualities. 0:21:54.396 --> 0:21:57.356 So although I think she's amazing at writing that I 0:21:57.436 --> 0:22:00.276 never personally wanted to do that, I think that that 0:22:00.476 --> 0:22:02.996 that you will get looked at more as a confessional 0:22:02.996 --> 0:22:05.476 singer songwriter. If you make a cartoon out of yourself, 0:22:06.996 --> 0:22:09.356 I should say in the book you explained people though 0:22:09.356 --> 0:22:11.636 the song Brick that it really was it was based 0:22:11.636 --> 0:22:14.716 on her. Yes, a real time in your life, your 0:22:14.756 --> 0:22:18.396 girlfriend and senior year high school was pregnant. Ye, you 0:22:18.476 --> 0:22:23.796 decided having abortions very troubling time for you, awful. I 0:22:23.836 --> 0:22:27.476 didn't realize the degree to which a lot of the 0:22:27.476 --> 0:22:30.676 writing was taken from real life. But I don't know 0:22:30.716 --> 0:22:34.756 how you came up with it. Musically, that's an interesting one. 0:22:34.876 --> 0:22:36.436 It goes against and that's why I said, I don't 0:22:36.436 --> 0:22:37.916