Speaker 1: Happy Thanksgiving everybody. I'm Dan Horde and this is the
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast, The Browns Thursday edition, my lame attempt
Speaker 1: to come up with a clever title for the day
Speaker 1: before Black Friday coming up. My broadcast partner Dave Lapham
Speaker 1: joins me to look ahead to Sunday's game against the
Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns, and we'll also discuss some other hot topics,
Speaker 1: including what lap thinks the Bengals should have done on
Speaker 1: fourth and three last week with a game on the
Speaker 1: line in Baltimore. I'll have a locker room conversation this
Speaker 1: week with tight End c j Uzama, and in our
Speaker 1: Know the Faux segment, we'll talk to Zack Jackson, who
Speaker 1: covers the Browns for The Athletic and is always a
Speaker 1: great guest on our Bengals radio shows. All of that
Speaker 1: is straight ahead, but first, here is a quick reminder
Speaker 1: that you can have the latest edition of this podcast
Speaker 1: delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer by subscribing
Speaker 1: on iTunes, Stitcher, or pod Bean. It's the greatest invention
Speaker 1: since the Turkey oven bag. So if you're listening to
Speaker 1: this podcast on Thursday morning and plan to cook a
Speaker 1: giant turkey in the oven without the bag. Run to
Speaker 1: the store right now and get one. In my experience,
Speaker 1: the meat is more moist, the turkey cooks faster, and
Speaker 1: perhaps best of all, it makes the clean up a
Speaker 1: million times easier. So enjoy the feast and the football.
Speaker 1: The Bengals have six games left, including two against the
Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns. Over the last few years, facing the Browns
Speaker 1: men an easy victory. The Bengals have won the last
Speaker 1: seven meetings, and most of those games have been blowouts.
Speaker 1: The closest game was a thirteen point win, and the
Speaker 1: average score in those seven victories was thirty to nine.
Speaker 1: The Bengals are only favored by three at home this Sunday,
Speaker 1: and it's time to discuss the matchup and much more
Speaker 1: with my broadcast partner Dave Lapham Lap. There are three
Speaker 1: teams in the NFL, the Saints, Rams, and Chiefs, currently
Speaker 1: averaging thirty five or more points per game, and when
Speaker 1: the Rams and Chiefs played each other on Monday Night
Speaker 1: Football this week, the final score is fifty four to
Speaker 1: fifty one. Is that where the NFL is headed? And
Speaker 1: what constitutes a good defense these days? Man, that's a
Speaker 1: great question. Damn that game was historic in so many ways.
Speaker 1: I mean, the first time a team scored fifty or
Speaker 1: more and lost in NFL history. That tells you what
Speaker 1: the NFL is about in this era. But when you
Speaker 1: look at it, there were three defensive touchdowns. Twenty percent
Speaker 1: of the points were scored by the defense in that
Speaker 1: football game. So that's what defenses have to do in
Speaker 1: this era. The Bengals, you know, did have scored four
Speaker 1: defensive touchdowns, two and one quarter by defensive line more
Speaker 1: instrumental in the victory over the Miami Dolphins. So you
Speaker 1: not only have to take it away, you have to
Speaker 1: take it and score. And it's because so many points
Speaker 1: are going up on the board, and you know, guy
Speaker 1: like Aaron Donald has a dominant performance with two sacks,
Speaker 1: two forced fumbles, you know, two touchdowns off of those.
Speaker 1: But and you look at it, you say, how can
Speaker 1: you say that guy was a great defensive player in
Speaker 1: that kind of a football game. But when it's a
Speaker 1: track meet like that, if you just interrupt the momentum
Speaker 1: somehow with a defensive stop, you know, or a takeaway
Speaker 1: and then if you get a takeaway score combination, you know,
Speaker 1: that's what really is necessary. Almost in this ear of
Speaker 1: the National Football League. I mean, it used to be
Speaker 1: defensive coordinators have goals they put up on the board,
Speaker 1: and one of them with seventeen points or less, that's
Speaker 1: winning football. That's not the number anymore. That's unrealistic. I
Speaker 1: think it's probably twenty four less lap. A lot of
Speaker 1: Bengals fans had trouble with Cincinnati throwing the ball to
Speaker 1: Cody core on fourth and three at the end of
Speaker 1: the game in Baltimore. I'll give you my opinion, then
Speaker 1: I want yours to me. If he's on the field
Speaker 1: and he's open, throwing to him, it's not a bad decision.
Speaker 1: Hit him right in the hands. He's got to catch
Speaker 1: the ball. I think the bigger question is why has
Speaker 1: he on the field. Would you have been better off
Speaker 1: to have odd and Tate out there? That's my opinion.
Speaker 1: How about you? Yeah? I agree that Andy Dalton when
Speaker 1: he looked at the play pre snap, he saw one
Speaker 1: on one coverage. He saw his guy Corps working against Humphrey,
Speaker 1: who's a first round pick. Great corner. Humphrey held him.
Speaker 1: You have to fight through it. The ball got on
Speaker 1: top of a Corps quicker than he anticipated because he
Speaker 1: was held me out to fight through it. I mean
Speaker 1: you could see the white and the one in his
Speaker 1: sixteen number getting stretched. He fought through it, and by
Speaker 1: the time he got to to find the ball, it
Speaker 1: was a lot closer to him than he thought, and
Speaker 1: it kind of surprised him, I think. But I don't
Speaker 1: give a damn. You gotta catch it. That's an NFL thrill.
Speaker 1: That's right on the money. You have to be an
Speaker 1: NFL player and catch that football. He didn't, and you
Speaker 1: know he had. He had another drop this season wide
Speaker 1: open in the middle of football field that you know
Speaker 1: now it starts. Is this problematic? But my opinion, Dan,
Speaker 1: I don't care, Cody core untap you should have in
Speaker 1: that situation they had second and three, third and three,
Speaker 1: fourth and three. They started the game with Giovanni Bernard
Speaker 1: and Joe Mixon on the field because they're they're best
Speaker 1: offensive players. In that situation, you put your best offensive
Speaker 1: players on the football field. You started the game saying
Speaker 1: mixed in Giovanni Bernard detached them using as the fire
Speaker 1: do it. Then all you need is three yards on
Speaker 1: one of those plays in in my estimation, to have
Speaker 1: one of those guys on the sideline for any of
Speaker 1: those three snaps, and they were on the sideline for
Speaker 1: all of them. I think some mistake did not get
Speaker 1: your best offensive playmakers on the field at a key
Speaker 1: time in the game. At that point, you're trying to
Speaker 1: keep the drive alive. I can see, you know, Andy
Speaker 1: went deep. He tried to get to Zama on second
Speaker 1: down because he thought, this might be my chance to
Speaker 1: take it. I think there's Ross deep on second down.
Speaker 1: Then use Zam on third down. And he thought, you know, though,
Speaker 1: I know I'm four down, so I'm going to try
Speaker 1: to take my shot, you know, move it and work
Speaker 1: at the clock's working against a little bit. But on
Speaker 1: fourth down, you got to get the first down. So
Speaker 1: if you go that route on second and fourth down,
Speaker 1: you got to get your backs in there, who are
Speaker 1: used to run in those type of routes. They're your
Speaker 1: two best get the ball in your best offensive playmaker's hands.
Speaker 1: And in my mind, for that football game, the way
Speaker 1: they were down, you know, no aj no Malone, whatever,
Speaker 1: those two guys should have been on the field trying
Speaker 1: to get the ball in their hands. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: the Hugh Jackson factor. It's going to be a big
Speaker 1: story this week. How real is the huge advantage if
Speaker 1: there is one? Yeah, to me, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: you can gather a lot of information just you know,
Speaker 1: taking tape study, film study, and you can get tendencies
Speaker 1: and percentages, and you know, there's so much it information
Speaker 1: now and there's so many you know, different services that
Speaker 1: are analyzing and overanalyzing. The analytics are like off the charts,
Speaker 1: so you can dive into all that stuff. We're Hugh
Speaker 1: I think comes a plus is he understands the mindset,
Speaker 1: the personality, the mentality of the players and the coaches.
Speaker 1: He was just with them. He just got stabbed in
Speaker 1: the back by one of them. Who's the head coach.
Speaker 1: You know, the other guy get fired. But you know
Speaker 1: Greg Williams got the head coaching job. And I think
Speaker 1: Greg Williams is a brilliant defensive mind. But I do
Speaker 1: think Hugh, having worked with Greg Williams, will have an
Speaker 1: idea of what he's thinking and how he's thinking and
Speaker 1: things that go along with it. Greg Williams is already
Speaker 1: on record saying we're not going to change all of
Speaker 1: our calls and all of our language because of Hugh Jackson,
Speaker 1: and I agree with that. Because I've been in situations
Speaker 1: where a guy comes from in the other team and
Speaker 1: you say, hey, give me some mentel. You know, let
Speaker 1: me let me know the calls. You can you can
Speaker 1: false call, you can handle that so well. I remember
Speaker 1: being in a game where defensive player we made a call,
Speaker 1: but it was a dummy call and we didn't do
Speaker 1: what that call dictated based on what the information was
Speaker 1: given to them by the former teammate of ours, and
Speaker 1: they were pissed. I mean, they went up to that player.
Speaker 1: So now it's like, hey, if you're going to cheat
Speaker 1: on the test, you know, you better make sure. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't want to. Very rarely do you go in
Speaker 1: the game with the answers before the test is given,
Speaker 1: you know. So in my mind, the best thing to
Speaker 1: do is line up, read your keys, play defense, line up,
Speaker 1: read the configuration, defensively block them. Don't get over sweat
Speaker 1: away with you know, Oh, I'm trying to pick up
Speaker 1: the code. Crack the code. You know, I know the calls.
Speaker 1: Don't get hung up on that stuff. I mean, it
Speaker 1: can be a little bit of a factor, but don't
Speaker 1: get it so detailed. And so, you know, a big
Speaker 1: a deal in that football game. But you know, I
Speaker 1: do think overall, he knows what bothers Baker Mayfield. He
Speaker 1: coached them. He knows things that could potentially bother him.
Speaker 1: You know, he knows the type of things that Greg
Speaker 1: Williams doesn't like to have to defend. I mean, those
Speaker 1: are the things you sat in meetings with the coaches,
Speaker 1: you sat in meetings with the players. You're trying to
Speaker 1: develop this young quarterback getting ready to play in the
Speaker 1: National Football League. So yeah, that's part of it. The thing,
Speaker 1: the thing. Two things in this game though, are interesting
Speaker 1: to me, Dan and this with Baker Mayfield. It's another
Speaker 1: case of this is the first pick of the draft.
Speaker 1: Jameis Winston was the first pick of the draft. Didn't
Speaker 1: go well for Jamis Winston. Hopefully it goes as poorly
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield. But fourteen of the sixteen games they're playing
Speaker 1: against a first round draft pick at quarterback. Fourteen of
Speaker 1: the sixteen games everybody in the division they're playing first
Speaker 1: round picks. Baltimore had three first round picks at quarterback,
Speaker 1: two of my Heisman Trophy winners. When in NFL history
Speaker 1: is that ever happened? All three of them first round
Speaker 1: picks two Heisman's playing against another Heisman guy, Jamis Winston,
Speaker 1: Heisman guy. You know, the only two non first round picks.
Speaker 1: Drew Brees first pick of the second round walking into
Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame, and Denver doesn't have a first
Speaker 1: round pick at quarterback, but every other game first round pick.
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty interesting. The other thing in this
Speaker 1: football game, I can't think of another game where both
Speaker 1: the head coaches are also the defensive coordinators. I mean,
Speaker 1: for different reasons. It's a little bit different twist. You know,
Speaker 1: one head coach is relieved the coordinators and interim head coach,
Speaker 1: but he's the head coach and he's calling defenses. Marvin Lewis,
Speaker 1: let's go with his defensive coordinator. He's the head coach.
Speaker 1: He's calling defenses. I can't remember another game in NFL
Speaker 1: history where the head coaches were both calling the defenses
Speaker 1: in the same game. That's very rare. There's a couple
Speaker 1: of rare things, you know, going on in this football game.
Speaker 1: For sure. The Browns have had the number one pick
Speaker 1: in the draft each of the last two years. Baker
Speaker 1: Mayfield this year, Myles Garrett last year. Furthermore, they had
Speaker 1: two first round picks this year and three first round
Speaker 1: picks last year. Is all of that young talent starting
Speaker 1: to show. I think it is because John Dorsey, the
Speaker 1: blue collar football guy that worked with Ron Wolf up
Speaker 1: in Green Bay, has running the show. And he was
Speaker 1: the beneficiary, the beneficiary of a lot of cap dollars
Speaker 1: and a lot of raft picks courtesy is Sashy Brown
Speaker 1: and that in company that messed the franchise up. But
Speaker 1: I think they're on the right track. They have a guy,
Speaker 1: a football guy that is picking more wisely and soundly
Speaker 1: in terms of his draft picks. And it's going to
Speaker 1: be a matter of time. I mean, I think they're
Speaker 1: gonna be They're gonna be something to be reckoned with.
Speaker 1: I think Baker Mayfield might end up being a more
Speaker 1: mobile Drew Brees type guy. And when when you look
Speaker 1: at the game against Atlanta, he went seventeen for twenty
Speaker 1: and uh and they ran the ball you know down
Speaker 1: the Atlanta Falcons throats with Chubb. You know another pick,
Speaker 1: third round pick, who is you know, he's a violent guy.
Speaker 1: He's a hammer. He runs the ball hard. Their offensive line,
Speaker 1: the interior of their offensive line played every snap last year.
Speaker 1: You know, their linebacker. Two of their linebackers played every
Speaker 1: snap last year. Showburt was a walk on it Wisconsin
Speaker 1: who's now first alternate to the Pro Bowl. Baker Mayfield
Speaker 1: was a walk on at Texas Tech and Oklahoma. So
Speaker 1: they like those kind of guys that are proving themselves
Speaker 1: and are you know, team guys, And that's that's what
Speaker 1: they're trying to build with the character or the football team.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, even going back to college days, don't
Speaker 1: let Baker Mayfield out of the pocket moving to his right.
Speaker 1: He throws on the run as well as anybody. You
Speaker 1: have to if you get him out of pocket, you
Speaker 1: have to make him go left, make him reset himself,
Speaker 1: throw back across his body. Do not allow him to
Speaker 1: go to the right and be fluid with that on
Speaker 1: the run thrill that he has. He is coffin neils
Speaker 1: in that area. Sometimes the stats don't add up. The
Speaker 1: Browns are number two in the NFL and forcing turnovers
Speaker 1: with twenty five. Their turnover ratio is plus twelve. There
Speaker 1: are three teams other than the Browns that are plus
Speaker 1: ten or better and they're all in first place, the Rams,
Speaker 1: the Bears, and the Redskins. So why are the Cleveland
Speaker 1: Browns three six and one. That's a great question, Dan.
Speaker 1: I mean some of it is look at who they played,
Speaker 1: Like the Bengals. They tied Pittsburgh twenty one twenty one
Speaker 1: in the opener. They lose to New Orleans only allowing
Speaker 1: twenty one points to the New Orleans Saints and lose
Speaker 1: the football game. So they played Pittsburgh, they played New Orleans,
Speaker 1: they played Baltimore beat them in overtime. We know what
Speaker 1: kind of team Baltimore is. The team the game that's
Speaker 1: the outlier is Philip Rivers lit them up. I mean,
Speaker 1: you look at the tape of what they did, what
Speaker 1: Greg Williams did to the New Orleans Saints and Drew
Speaker 1: Brees unbelievable. You look at the tape of what he
Speaker 1: did against the LA Charges and how Philip Rivers took
Speaker 1: them apart. It just doesn't compute. It's like, what's the
Speaker 1: secret sauce? How can he be so good against Ben
Speaker 1: Roethlisberger Drew Brees and then the LA Chargers light you up.
Speaker 1: The Tampa Bay Buccaneers beat him in over time twenty
Speaker 1: six twenty three because of the way they can throw
Speaker 1: the football. They lose to Pittsburgh on the road, they
Speaker 1: lose to Kansas City get lit up thirty seven twenty one.
Speaker 1: So in a lot of cases, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: the Bengals, if they didn't have all those takeaways, they
Speaker 1: were given up half a hundred in a lot of
Speaker 1: those games. The takeaways kept them in games against those
Speaker 1: teams that the Bengals didn't have takeaways against and got toasted.
Speaker 1: So I think I think the takeaways made them more respectable,
Speaker 1: you know, in some games. And that's almost what happened
Speaker 1: in Baltimore. I mean, the Bengals go eight quarters against
Speaker 1: the Ravens and don't turn the ball over. They were
Speaker 1: plus one. They had they had eight or seven stoppages
Speaker 1: of drives by turnover in fourth down stops. Seven drives
Speaker 1: the Ravens had that didn't end the kick. That's why
Speaker 1: they beat them and came close to beating them a
Speaker 1: second time because offensively and defensively on a snap by
Speaker 1: snap basis, they weren't good enough to be in that
Speaker 1: football game against the Baltimore Ravens. Turnovers, you know, and
Speaker 1: stops on fourth down really helped. So sometimes it prevents
Speaker 1: a blowout. Turnovers can say you know, it's not as
Speaker 1: bad as it could have been because you got extra possessions.
Speaker 1: Final topic. Baker Mayfield the Cleveland browns thirtieth starting quarterback
Speaker 1: since nineteen ninety nine thirty The Bengals have had nine
Speaker 1: during the same time period. But you got to know
Speaker 1: them a little bit when you were still doing Big
Speaker 1: tw games and he was playing at Oklahoma. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: Bob Stoops gave me an assignment. I was doing a
Speaker 1: spring game, his first spring game there as a starter,
Speaker 1: and Bob Stoops said, hey, Dave, do me a favor,
Speaker 1: will you? Will you? And you're a prep here, you know.
Speaker 1: I flew in on Friday or whatever it is Friday
Speaker 1: morning and practices and you know, interact with the players.
Speaker 1: And in the spring game Saturday, he said, can you
Speaker 1: try to find somebody that has a negative thing to
Speaker 1: say about Baker Mayfield. I don't care if it's offense, defense,
Speaker 1: or special teams. I mean I went all three phases.
Speaker 1: I went fifty year, seniors, true freshman, everything in between.
Speaker 1: Not one guy had anything negative to say about Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing about Baker Mayfield. He's got swagger,
Speaker 1: but it's controlled swagger. You know, and he backs it
Speaker 1: up and he's got tremendous leadership, and he throws the
Speaker 1: ball straight. I mean, he is accurate. He's just accurate.
Speaker 1: You know, Drew Brees as a unicorn with his accuracy.
Speaker 1: But Mayfield, I mean, he went seventeen for twenty against
Speaker 1: Atlanta and Chubb ran the ball down their throat. I
Speaker 1: mean this the Cleveland Browns throwing that Atlanta Falcon take.
Speaker 1: They're pretty good. Atlanta's not very good, as we know, defensively,
Speaker 1: but they handled them. And h Baker Mayfield, he's he's
Speaker 1: a leader of men, There's no question about it. Joe Mixton,
Speaker 1: Jordan Evans, those those guys that I talked about, talked
Speaker 1: to for that spring game, they love them. Then they
Speaker 1: love him now. Baker Mayfield is president of everything in
Speaker 1: their minds, you know, and that that that speaks volumes
Speaker 1: about not only the kids tangibles, you know, with the
Speaker 1: accuracy and his football intellecting, but his intangible as his
Speaker 1: leadership and all that sort of thing. He's the real deal.
Speaker 1: I think they start they start pretty good. Their pretty
Speaker 1: good gold and we know Dan that the Bengals had
Speaker 1: him number one on their board as a quarterback because
Speaker 1: of his accuracy. In this league, you have to throw
Speaker 1: it straight and you have to have accuracy and anticipation
Speaker 1: and put it in tight windows, not just windows, portholes,
Speaker 1: little things. And he can do that, do that. Plus
Speaker 1: he can move, He can get out of trouble. You know,
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson in the pocket, you know, with a little
Speaker 1: quick jackhammer feat you know by in time. Baker Mayfield
Speaker 1: can do that stuff. He has great pockets sense, pocket awareness,
Speaker 1: and if that dude gets out a pocket, you better
Speaker 1: make sure he's going to his left when he gets
Speaker 1: out to his right on the run. Gold He throws
Speaker 1: on the run going his right as accurately as well
Speaker 1: as anybody I've seen. So you can't let him do
Speaker 1: that to you. Thanks Lap. The Bengals defense is struggling
Speaker 1: to put it mildly next to last in points allowed,
Speaker 1: thank you Tampa Bay lasting yards allowed last versus the run,
Speaker 1: next to last versus the pass. But as a result,
Speaker 1: the Bengals offensive struggles have flown under the radar. Take
Speaker 1: away a thirty seven point outburst against Tampa Bay. Again
Speaker 1: the team that's dead last in points allowed, and the
Speaker 1: Bengals have not scored more than three offensive touchdowns in
Speaker 1: a game since week or in Atlanta, the game where
Speaker 1: Tyler Eifford got hurt. AJ Green's app since in the
Speaker 1: last two games has obviously been a big factor, and
Speaker 1: even though aj didn't practice on Wednesday, it appears likely
Speaker 1: he will be back this week. C j Uzama has
Speaker 1: been dealing with a sore shoulder but has been able
Speaker 1: to play, and I spoke to the Bengals tight end
Speaker 1: this week in the locker room with Bengals tight end
Speaker 1: c j Uzama, what's your Thanksgiving? Like? My Thanksgiving is
Speaker 1: eating all of my grandma's food. She's come up and
Speaker 1: cooked for me the past four years and even in
Speaker 1: college that was the case. So, um, this year, are
Speaker 1: gonna go to Geo's house. Grandma, Mom and Dad are coming. Um,
Speaker 1: Mom heats up some some decent stuff, but Grandma's gonna
Speaker 1: be cooking a lot of it. I'm sure Geo's mother
Speaker 1: in law will make a little something too, But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just Grandma's cooking all the time. Go Grandma, Oh,
Speaker 1: go Grandma. She's she's she's the best chefinder. All right,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the Browns this week, coming off of
Speaker 1: Buy like the Ravens were last week. Is that a
Speaker 1: disadvantage at this stage of the season, Um, disadvantage for
Speaker 1: you facing a fresher team. Uh. You know, anytime you
Speaker 1: get a week off, that obviously helps you know, Nickson bruises,
Speaker 1: and that helps you for our team as well. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think you know, it gives them an
Speaker 1: extra week to prepare for us. It gives them an
Speaker 1: extra week to heal up a little bit and obviously
Speaker 1: game playing a little a lot more um for this
Speaker 1: for this game. But I don't think I see that
Speaker 1: as a disadvantage for us. I think that you know,
Speaker 1: obviously they're going to come in and um, a little
Speaker 1: fresher maybe, but you know, we're coming off of a
Speaker 1: loss where we're off, so I think that kind of
Speaker 1: fuel fuels our fire a little more. We're trying to
Speaker 1: see Ja Yuzama looking at their defense. They're giving up
Speaker 1: a lot of yards, but they've got twenty five takeaways,
Speaker 1: second best in the NFL. When you watch that on tape,
Speaker 1: How are they getting so many takeaways? Well, I think
Speaker 1: one of the things that we kind of discussed today was, um,
Speaker 1: they've been in quite a few overtime games and that
Speaker 1: equa to a whole another game that they played. So
Speaker 1: the yards that they're giving up, you know that you
Speaker 1: can factor that into that. You can factor in UM
Speaker 1: that and with the takeaways as well. But you know
Speaker 1: they're flying around the ball. Um. You know, like you said,
Speaker 1: they have a lot of turnovers, they have a lot
Speaker 1: of interceptions, a lot of force bumbles, FuMB of recoveries,
Speaker 1: and I think that they're just playing to the whistle.
Speaker 1: And you know some people kind of get laxed with
Speaker 1: the ball and UM, whether it's the quarterback and making
Speaker 1: a wrong reed, whether it's the receiver you know, late
Speaker 1: into play just um, you know, kind of giving up
Speaker 1: on a ball, or whether it's running run of thinking
Speaker 1: that he's gonna go down and doesn't. Just just things
Speaker 1: like that. So we're gonna have to make sure that
Speaker 1: we played at the whistle, play hard. UM. I mean,
Speaker 1: they fly after the ball. That's one thing that you
Speaker 1: can tell about their defense is um, you know, all
Speaker 1: all of them players, where's a defense attack or running
Speaker 1: twenty yards down field, they're all trying to get after
Speaker 1: the ball. Last year, Jabrol Peppers, their free safety played
Speaker 1: so deep and sometimes you wouldn't even see him on
Speaker 1: the screen. Are they still doing a lot of that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they're mixing in certain certain things
Speaker 1: like that. They it's the same, you know, same concepts, um.
Speaker 1: And obviously we're expecting them to change up, um some
Speaker 1: things because you know, we have few here and I'm
Speaker 1: sure some of the calls and some of the things
Speaker 1: that they have planned. And again that's where this extra
Speaker 1: week helps them. UM. But yeah, I mean there are
Speaker 1: certain certain players where you look back and you're like, yeah, ten,
Speaker 1: and then you see the back of you and you're like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: he's he's He's back there somewhere. So the Hugh factor
Speaker 1: is real, I think for both teams. I mean for us,
Speaker 1: I mean, we want to win it fo you you know, Um,
Speaker 1: he was here when I was here, and I have
Speaker 1: a massive amount of respect for him, and UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try my best to to win this for
Speaker 1: you know, not not only the organization and for our season,
Speaker 1: but for for him. So um. And obviously you know
Speaker 1: they want to they want to beat their former coach.
Speaker 1: So I think it's I think it's it kind of
Speaker 1: holds you for for both sides, Um, both teams. Last
Speaker 1: thing for c j Uzama. You've gone from four and
Speaker 1: one to five and five, but they're five teams in
Speaker 1: the AFC tied at five and five, fighting for that
Speaker 1: final playoff spot. What is the mindset in this room
Speaker 1: right now? Mindset is to go, I want to know
Speaker 1: this week and you know, UM, we know that we
Speaker 1: control our own destiny. We know that. UM. Personally, for me,
Speaker 1: I know that we have the opportunity to you know,
Speaker 1: go eleven and five and you have to start with
Speaker 1: this week and you have to go one to know
Speaker 1: this week, and you can't overlook any opponent. And UM,
Speaker 1: I think the mindset is we got to come out
Speaker 1: here and we have to assert ourselves offensively. I mean
Speaker 1: I can't obviously I can't speak for the defense because
Speaker 1: I've fended a bunch of the offensive meetings, but UM,
Speaker 1: I know that we we've got to We've got to
Speaker 1: do better. We've we've got to put points on the board.
Speaker 1: The way this league is going. I mean, you guys
Speaker 1: watch the Money Night game. It's it's ridiculous how many
Speaker 1: points can be scored at anytime. So we know that
Speaker 1: as an offense, we have to step up and and
Speaker 1: you know, we can't put our our defense in certain
Speaker 1: you know, situations, and we have to be able to
Speaker 1: move the ball on score um at will like we
Speaker 1: know we're able to. That's the bluck this week and
Speaker 1: joy Gramma's cookie. Thank you appreciate it. C J ranks
Speaker 1: fourth on the Bengals in receptions with twenty four, including
Speaker 1: a pair of touchdowns. Now time for this week's Know
Speaker 1: the Faux segment. Zack Jackson covers the Browns for The
Speaker 1: Athletic and joined Dave Lappam and me on the Bengals
Speaker 1: Game Plan Show. I started our conversation with what seemed
Speaker 1: like an odd question, considering that the Browns only have
Speaker 1: four wins in the last three years, but after studying
Speaker 1: Cleveland's roster, I asked Zach if the Browns have a
Speaker 1: glaring weakness. I think in the secondary they're still pretty
Speaker 1: vulnerable to the past. A lot of teams are you
Speaker 1: guys know the feeling right, But the Browns arrows pointing
Speaker 1: up and they're much better now that we know how
Speaker 1: low the bar was. You mentioned the recent history, but
Speaker 1: the roster is better, the vibe is better, and you
Speaker 1: look at the future, you see a bunch of guys
Speaker 1: twenty three to twenty five who seem to be pretty good.
Speaker 1: They're all under contract, They're going to have more good
Speaker 1: draft picks, they're going to have more salary cap space.
Speaker 1: And if they finally have their quarterback and if Myles
Speaker 1: Garrett and denzil Ward are even close to as good
Speaker 1: as we think they can be, Yeah, and the Browns
Speaker 1: are definitely set up finally maybe for a good future.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. Um, Greg Williams did a conference
Speaker 1: call whether US this morning, and I know, I know
Speaker 1: many times up there in Cleveland he's talked about, Um,
Speaker 1: he's a lifer, he's a football lifer, and he's talked
Speaker 1: about his coaching tree and it's bigger than the all outdoors.
Speaker 1: There's not a player or a coach in the NFL
Speaker 1: he hasn't coached or played with, you know, played with
Speaker 1: or coached with. He's a funny guy that way. But
Speaker 1: you know, obviously you hear the confidence, but you hear
Speaker 1: the pride too. I mean, this guy he's all about football,
Speaker 1: isn't he. I laughed, Dave, because about five miles from
Speaker 1: my house and Akron, there's a John Heisman statue and
Speaker 1: I say he coached with Greg too. Give listen to Greg. Yeah, no, um.
Speaker 1: He was obvious early on in the season that having
Speaker 1: this defense in a second year under Greg, they were
Speaker 1: to take a leap, and I think a lot of
Speaker 1: guys have been better than most thought. But giving him
Speaker 1: the chance to stick around has been a huge deal.
Speaker 1: And then when you know, with everything that went on,
Speaker 1: he becomes the interim coach, and guys have responded to him,
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm not sure he's a real candidate
Speaker 1: for the job, but we don't know what's going to
Speaker 1: happen in the next six weeks. I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going to happen in the next four quarters. But Greg
Speaker 1: has in his group have outperformed just about every expectation
Speaker 1: to this point. And whoever that new coach is, I
Speaker 1: think is going to have to take a long look
Speaker 1: trying to keep Greg because guys are obviously playing for him,
Speaker 1: and they've built some guys who are fit for his system.
Speaker 1: We are talking to Zach Jackson, who covers the Browns
Speaker 1: for the Athletic. Let's talk about Baker Mayfield. What does
Speaker 1: he do well at this stage of his career and
Speaker 1: where is he still a work in progress? Well? He's
Speaker 1: super accurate. I think the most important encouraging thing for
Speaker 1: the Browns is that Baker has been everything they advertised
Speaker 1: him to be from accuracy, charisma, Guys play for him,
Speaker 1: he does the extra work. He does all of those things,
Speaker 1: so you know, teams can take away his passing lanes
Speaker 1: because the height is an issue, and you know the
Speaker 1: offense has changed, there's a different play caller. The receiving
Speaker 1: corps has been up and down, mostly down. They traded
Speaker 1: their running back at mid season. All of that, they've
Speaker 1: had different guys to play left tackle. So you can
Speaker 1: get to Baker by keeping him in the pocket, and
Speaker 1: he's got a long way to go, just because like
Speaker 1: anybody does, it's on their ninth start in the NFL.
Speaker 1: But I think the Browns are super encouraged because they
Speaker 1: see the traits that they believe that he has. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's he's a rocket too, so when you let him
Speaker 1: out of the pocket, he is extremely accurate, and when
Speaker 1: he has time to see in the seal, he is
Speaker 1: not afraid to throw it to anybody or challenge anybody.
Speaker 1: He's shown that. Yeah, there's no doubt. I did a
Speaker 1: couple of his games when he's in college, and even
Speaker 1: in college when he got out of the pocket, going
Speaker 1: to his right deadly now to his left in it,
Speaker 1: you know, he's right here and a guy so left
Speaker 1: is a little more difficult for everybody. But he is
Speaker 1: so good thrown on the run to his right, I
Speaker 1: mean as good as I've seen in terms of accuracy
Speaker 1: and velocity and all that. So you cannot let him
Speaker 1: escape to his right. But let me ask you about
Speaker 1: this big, big deal here in Cincinnati. Everybody's reacting. He
Speaker 1: was asked about you know, Hugh knows so much about
Speaker 1: the offense, kind of I'm paraphrasing here, knows so much
Speaker 1: about is that going to be an issue for the
Speaker 1: football game on side? He said no, and he was
Speaker 1: a follow up quest He is, no, I mean no,
Speaker 1: were you there? Did you see? You know? All we
Speaker 1: see is the written word. What was his overall reaction?
Speaker 1: What did he look like? Was he being started? What
Speaker 1: was there any humor involved? Was it? What was the delivery?
Speaker 1: What was it all about? He was being baker. He
Speaker 1: is built for this, and he dictates the media interviews.
Speaker 1: So he was trying to say, stop asking me the
Speaker 1: same question five different ways. But he was also trying
Speaker 1: to say, we have no fear and guys gravitate today.
Speaker 1: You know, I think he is the guy that when
Speaker 1: he's on your team, you love him, and when he's
Speaker 1: not on your team, you can't wait to see your
Speaker 1: team pounding. I think he's always been that way. I
Speaker 1: think the chip on his shoulder has helped carry him
Speaker 1: this far. And I you know, he just this is
Speaker 1: his makeup. I think guys have to be genuine as
Speaker 1: the challenges get bigger, and this is what he is.
Speaker 1: He's an overcomer, He's an overachiever. So I don't know
Speaker 1: what his stealing is. I don't know what the Browns
Speaker 1: can do to put better people around him, but man,
Speaker 1: all things considered, it'd be hard to give him anything
Speaker 1: but an A for the work that he's done this far.
Speaker 1: I mean, they didn't even let him practice with the
Speaker 1: number ones in training camp. Six weeks of training camp.
Speaker 1: The only time he played with the number ones was
Speaker 1: an emergency situation in a preseason game. And he comes
Speaker 1: in in the second quarter of a game that they're
Speaker 1: getting killed and he just does this, and then the
Speaker 1: next week they score thirty five or thirty eight. And
Speaker 1: I mean so it hasn't all been great, and it
Speaker 1: won't be for any rookie, but he has been like
Speaker 1: every challenge he's been up for, and he's had two games,
Speaker 1: two and a half games where you're like, wow, like,
Speaker 1: this guy is already a really good quarterback. There's no
Speaker 1: doubt he has a chip on his shoulder as big
Speaker 1: as a two by four. There's no time about that.
Speaker 1: Do you think the fact that Hugh made that decision
Speaker 1: not to even let him practice with the number ones
Speaker 1: all through training camp? Do you think there was a
Speaker 1: little bit but not ill feeling, but do you think
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of come on, coach, you
Speaker 1: know what's up. What was the relationship like with Baker
Speaker 1: and you through that? Yeah? I definitely think there was.
Speaker 1: I mean, he struggled in the spring because that's what
Speaker 1: rookies do, right. Their lives changed, the playbooks change, everything's
Speaker 1: thrown at him, and he came to camp and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden it was like, hey, Baker's looking like himself. Now,
Speaker 1: Baker's got a little swagger tune. Chance didn't come there,
Speaker 1: So you know, David, I can't speak specifically on what
Speaker 1: it was, but obviously there was Hailey versus Hugh Right,
Speaker 1: there was Josh Gordon, there was Tyrod Baker. There was
Speaker 1: all of this going on, which had been so brown
Speaker 1: So yeah, so there were riffs, there were conflicts, but
Speaker 1: when he started playing, like I said, he looked like
Speaker 1: he had been doing forever and like he had had
Speaker 1: every opportunity. And it has continued that West of the
Speaker 1: last game was his best game, and we'll see where
Speaker 1: he goes from there. We are talking to Zack Jackson,
Speaker 1: who covers the Browns for The Athletic. You can follow
Speaker 1: him on Twitter at Akron Jackson. I want to follow
Speaker 1: up on Hugh Jackson. How do the Browns players in
Speaker 1: general feel about Hugh. You know, people here have made
Speaker 1: a big deal that there wasn't much social media reaction
Speaker 1: when he was fired, But I don't think that he
Speaker 1: lost the locker room. I think guys respected him. I
Speaker 1: think what happened more than anything was that it just
Speaker 1: went bad and that he shouldn't have come back for
Speaker 1: this year. And I just think John Dorsey finally said
Speaker 1: to the has one, we have eight games left and
Speaker 1: we have such a young team that we need to
Speaker 1: make this change now because these games are so important
Speaker 1: for evaluating these guys in terms of how we can
Speaker 1: compete going forward and what is best for these guys
Speaker 1: going forward. You know, there were putting day there were
Speaker 1: thirty one new players on this team from last year.
Speaker 1: So I think a lot of guys never even knew
Speaker 1: Hugh Jackson, right, some of them been here two weeks
Speaker 1: or two months, something like that. But I just think
Speaker 1: it was time for the Browns to say, Okay, we
Speaker 1: finally are building a core. We know this isn't going
Speaker 1: to work for myriad reasons, so let's just cut it
Speaker 1: off now, get evaluations out of these guys and go
Speaker 1: forward starting a gene. Greg Williams could not been more
Speaker 1: effusive in his praise of Joe Schaulburn said, maybe the
Speaker 1: smartest linebacker, smartest defensive player he's ever been around. He's
Speaker 1: been around a lot of players, just ask him, and
Speaker 1: he's coached a ton of guys. So I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the leader of the offense, Baker Mayfield, walk on Texas Tech,
Speaker 1: walk on Oklahoma. Joe Schulberg sounds like the leader of
Speaker 1: the defense walk on at Wisconsin. Kind of blue collar,
Speaker 1: you know, really earning it is the Cleveland organization. Is
Speaker 1: that what they want to portray the image of It
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how these guys got here, it's why they're
Speaker 1: doing once they get here. I absolutely think so, Dave.
Speaker 1: And when you watch the Browns, whether you or a
Speaker 1: football lifer like you and Greg, it is obvious City
Speaker 1: defense is committedly different when Joe in the field and
Speaker 1: when he's not. He paid every snap and twenty one
Speaker 1: straight games before he got hurt, and they're still susceptible
Speaker 1: to the big play. You know, some of that is
Speaker 1: greg gambling nature, but when Joe wasn't in there, they
Speaker 1: were a lot more susceptible to the big play. He
Speaker 1: just is so smart and covers so much ground and
Speaker 1: is so athletic. You know, he's only about two hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty five pounds playing middle linebacker. I think that's
Speaker 1: today's NFL, but it allows you know, he stays away
Speaker 1: from the big guys and he covers a lot of
Speaker 1: ground in a hurry, and that makes him a really
Speaker 1: important past defender and a guy who can make up
Speaker 1: grounds when they ground when they do get fooled on
Speaker 1: a screen or something like that. All our thanks to
Speaker 1: Zach Jackson and if you love great sports writing and
Speaker 1: don't already subscribe to The Athletic, you should sign up
Speaker 1: or put a subscription on your Christmas list. In the
Speaker 1: interest of full disclosure, I occasionally write for The Athletic,
Speaker 1: but I read it every day. It has become one
Speaker 1: of the first things I check with my morning cup
Speaker 1: of coffee. That's going to do it for this episode
Speaker 1: of the podcast. If you haven't done so already, don't
Speaker 1: forget to subscribe for free on iTunes, Stitcher, or pod Bean.
Speaker 1: And if you have a minute, please give it a
Speaker 1: rating or leave a comment. Your feedback is always appreciated
Speaker 1: and five star ratings. How more Bengals fans find this podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Dan Horde and thanks for listening to The Bengals
Speaker 1: Booth Podcast