1
00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: And we're back with another episode of Cutting the Distance podcast.

2
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm Dirk Durham and though elk season is in full

3
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,280
Speaker 1: swing right here in the West, there are some folks

4
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 1: in the Midwest, in the East and southern US sitting

5
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,800
Speaker 1: in trees right now in ground blinds looking to punch

6
00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,360
Speaker 1: their deer tag. Today on the show, I have a

7
00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:36,960
Speaker 1: buddy of mine, whitetail expert Tony Peterson. You probably already

8
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,720
Speaker 1: know who Tony is, or his name might even sound familiar,

9
00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,600
Speaker 1: because he's written umpteen articles about hunt and whitetail deer

10
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,560
Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of other stuff for many major

11
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,879
Speaker 1: publications over the years. He's even authored several books and

12
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:56,640
Speaker 1: developed multiple podcasts and currently writing articles and featured in

13
00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 1: Whitetail Edu films at Meat Eater. Welcome to the show.

14
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, buddy.

15
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: So what's your fall look like? You got anything cool

16
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,280
Speaker 1: going on? Is it just hunting your home state or

17
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,759
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Man?

18
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,760
Speaker 2: You know you brought that up in the intro about

19
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,800
Speaker 2: all the Western hunters chasing elk and I really wrestled

20
00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 2: with an elk hunt this year. You know, Colorado's last

21
00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,400
Speaker 2: year for you know, total over the counter, and I

22
00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,960
Speaker 2: was like, I gotta go do it. Been working out

23
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 2: all year, but my daughter drew a bear tag over

24
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,760
Speaker 2: in Wisconsin and the opener is first weekend in September,

25
00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 2: and so I was like, or you know, first week

26
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,320
Speaker 2: is September, I should say, And I thought, man, if

27
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,760
Speaker 2: I go out and hunt elk, I'm gonna I'm going

28
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 2: to miss that. And you know, you know how it

29
00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,200
Speaker 2: is with our jobs, October and November pretty much spoken for,

30
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,160
Speaker 2: so I figured i'd better stay home. But you know,

31
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 2: that'll be fun. I'll be hunting over there in Wisconsin

32
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 2: with for the girls, try to get them a deer,

33
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, try to get her a bear. And you know,

34
00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 2: I've got Minnesota, I've got North Dakota. I'm head out

35
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,920
Speaker 2: there in film some public land stuff. And then I

36
00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 2: did draw a an Iowa white tail tag this year,

37
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,359
Speaker 2: so I'm putting a little time into that to scouting,

38
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,640
Speaker 2: go down there and try to shoot one on public

39
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,000
Speaker 2: probably the end October. So I don't have a too

40
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 2: wild and crazy of a schedule this year, but it'll

41
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:17,519
Speaker 2: be a pretty good fall.

42
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like you'll be busy enough and having

43
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,239
Speaker 1: some fun getting out there. How old are your daughters?

44
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:29,680
Speaker 1: They're twelve twelve, man, that's awesome taking down a big,

45
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: old black bear. That's got to be a pretty cool

46
00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 1: experience for a kid.

47
00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,240
Speaker 2: Well, we'll see. I am not a very good bear hunter,

48
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,800
Speaker 2: and we you know, we have pretty low standards. I

49
00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 2: have a couple of bears that look like they're your

50
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,120
Speaker 2: typical kind of two year old bear that's, you know,

51
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 2: not very big, but pretty easy to pack out and

52
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,880
Speaker 2: pretty easy to butcher and everything. And I'm kind of

53
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,119
Speaker 2: I'm kind of pinning my hopes on a couple of those.

54
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,200
Speaker 2: I do have one other bear that looks he's kind

55
00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,919
Speaker 2: of a long, skinny bear, but he's he's definitely old

56
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 2: than some of the other ones. But it's I'm not

57
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 2: I'm I'm just hoping for a loan bore to walk in.

58
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,679
Speaker 2: I don't care if he's one hundred and twenty five

59
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,519
Speaker 2: pounds or three hundred and fifty pounds at this point.

60
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,840
Speaker 1: That's that's the great, that's the perfect expectation. You know,

61
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,360
Speaker 1: just go and just have a good hunt, and you know,

62
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,840
Speaker 1: maybe maybe she'll get a giant, maybe not, but it'll

63
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,079
Speaker 1: it'll be fun either way.

64
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know where we're at in Wisconsin.

65
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,520
Speaker 2: Up until about two years ago, they just changed the

66
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:35,960
Speaker 2: quota and the tag system to allow people a lot

67
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 2: more people to hunt each year. So it used to

68
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 2: be like eight years you had to wait where we're at.

69
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,440
Speaker 2: So the trophy quality was incredible, but our fawn recruitment

70
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,280
Speaker 2: and just the crop damage and everything was just a

71
00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 2: lot of people were complaining. So now it's like two

72
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 2: years and so there's a lot more bears getting killed

73
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 2: over there. So you can even see just in a

74
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 2: little bit of time that I've I've baited them over

75
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 2: there and run cameras. I can see that, you know,

76
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 2: your odds of killing one that's like four hundred plus,

77
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,240
Speaker 2: which was not like totally out of the question a

78
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 2: couple of years ago because there were old bears there.

79
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 2: Now that's changing, and it's starting to to me it's

80
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,680
Speaker 2: kind of starting to look a lot more like Minnesota.

81
00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,159
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, that might not be a

82
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 2: great reference for people, but you see a lot of

83
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,080
Speaker 2: bears in like the you know, one hundred and twenty

84
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 2: five hundred and fifty pound range till like two point fifty.

85
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,400
Speaker 2: You know, three hundred is a really good one. But

86
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,720
Speaker 2: that's a pretty good bear anywhere, really.

87
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,280
Speaker 1: Right, That's kind of like North Idaho your average bear,

88
00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,920
Speaker 1: you know, you're looking at like one hundred and twenty

89
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,320
Speaker 1: five hundred and thirty pound bear to you know, to

90
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,960
Speaker 1: two hundred pounds, you know, that's pretty average. You get

91
00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,960
Speaker 1: in that three hundred three fifty that's definitely an exceptional bear.

92
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,359
Speaker 1: And they're not under every under every log, you know,

93
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,239
Speaker 1: they're they're you may have to hunt a while before

94
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 1: you get one of those. Now, I will say some

95
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: of the guys are able to get way deep into

96
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,720
Speaker 1: the back country some of the wilderness stuff that it's

97
00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:04,680
Speaker 1: very difficult to get to away from baiting and hound

98
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,440
Speaker 1: hunt hunting. Then those guys can usually find some pretty

99
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 1: old old bores. But if you're very close to a road,

100
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,400
Speaker 1: then those bears the age class is just not there.

101
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, and we don't have I mean, I'm sure

102
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,039
Speaker 2: there's probably some national forest that you could get way

103
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,359
Speaker 2: back in on and maybe do that there too, but

104
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 2: just the access out here in the Midwest is different.

105
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,320
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like you can go eight miles

106
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,440
Speaker 2: deep in the back country, you know, and there and

107
00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,839
Speaker 2: where we hunt there are people who are running hounds

108
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,839
Speaker 2: pretty heavy, and they're pretty good at it, you know.

109
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,440
Speaker 2: They they're they're local and they know what they're doing.

110
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 2: So but it's I don't care, Like I don't. I

111
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,839
Speaker 2: want her to have a good hunt, and we're you know,

112
00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:49,680
Speaker 2: we're heading over there and doing a lot of work baiting,

113
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,320
Speaker 2: and I just want I just want a chance. You know,

114
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,280
Speaker 2: she doesn't care what size it is. I don't care

115
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,080
Speaker 2: what size it is. And I just think it would

116
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,599
Speaker 2: be really really cool to be sitting there and see

117
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,839
Speaker 2: a black bear coming in. So our goal is a bear,

118
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,200
Speaker 2: just like when we hunt, we're just hunting deer.

119
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: Yep, yep, that's awesome. I love it. So I kind

120
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,880
Speaker 1: of read off your all your accomplishments over the years,

121
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,479
Speaker 1: written lots and lots of articles, hundreds, i'm sure for

122
00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,120
Speaker 1: major publications. When did you get into writing.

123
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,040
Speaker 2: Man, I think you could say it would be thousands

124
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,680
Speaker 2: at this point, to be honest with you, I mean

125
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 2: I got into it. I always wanted to be a writer,

126
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 2: you know, growing up. I just the way I grew up,

127
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,640
Speaker 2: you know, it was like never really felt like a possibility.

128
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,520
Speaker 2: I mean, everybody kind of went into the trades or

129
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 2: you just got a job at where, you know, wherever,

130
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 2: and you worked until you retired. You know, it wasn't

131
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,279
Speaker 2: it wasn't like you were chasing your dreams. But I

132
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,920
Speaker 2: just kind of had the itch and I got a

133
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,760
Speaker 2: chance to write for a few deer organizations here in Minnesota.

134
00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,720
Speaker 2: You know, when I was like nineteen twenty, I wrote

135
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,039
Speaker 2: for free, and then I approached the Minnesota Outdoor News

136
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,359
Speaker 2: about writing for them, and they bought a piece from me,

137
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,960
Speaker 2: a trout fishing piece in two thousand and three. And

138
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,440
Speaker 2: that just getting that thirty five dollars check from that

139
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,320
Speaker 2: article changed how I looked at the whole thing, Like

140
00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 2: I just I was like, oh my god, like somebody

141
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,280
Speaker 2: will actually pay me, you know, And I mean it

142
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 2: was it was like peanuts, right. I remember listening to

143
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,720
Speaker 2: Steve Ranella Tak and he said he got paid four

144
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 2: grand for his first article. You know, different worlds. But

145
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 2: you know, I kind of that little little bit of

146
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 2: a fire that didn't I didn't really get it going

147
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 2: until I was like I had worked some jobs that

148
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 2: I hated with a passion, and I was like, I

149
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 2: don't see myself as the kind of person who can

150
00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,080
Speaker 2: do something I hate for the rest of my life.

151
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 2: And so I started to just sort of try to

152
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,360
Speaker 2: backfill a little bit by writing as much as I

153
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,560
Speaker 2: could anybody who would who would say yes, And it

154
00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,080
Speaker 2: sort of just spiraled into a couple jobs in the industry,

155
00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 2: and I just got I feel like, I just got

156
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 2: really lucky, and I just, you know, because I was

157
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 2: super passionate about fishing, and I was super passionate about

158
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 2: bow hunting white tails, you know, and then the dog

159
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 2: stuff came along and the Western stuff and just it's

160
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 2: sort of it sort of forced me to do tons

161
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,280
Speaker 2: of things in the outdoors because you get you know,

162
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,120
Speaker 2: you get bored righting about bass fishing, or you get

163
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,400
Speaker 2: bored about writing about tree stand whitetail hunting, and it's like, man,

164
00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,120
Speaker 2: you know, I'm training a dog now, like where's where's

165
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,000
Speaker 2: some angles I can write about? Or you know, I've

166
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,920
Speaker 2: never really been a hardcore duck hunter, so if I

167
00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 2: start duck hunting a little bit, when you're kind of

168
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,160
Speaker 2: learning those processes, like when you're you know, when you're

169
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,960
Speaker 2: like quote unquote an expert in something, it feels like

170
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 2: there's an expectation for what you're supposed to say, but

171
00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 2: there's a different process to just learning something new. So

172
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,079
Speaker 2: if you start, you know, at a pretty low level

173
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,760
Speaker 2: and you're like, I'm just out there figuring this stuff

174
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,239
Speaker 2: out like I've done with a lot of Western stuff,

175
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 2: and just you know, the dog saying it was really

176
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 2: beneficial to my writing because I was learning as I

177
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 2: went and so even you know and white tails, that

178
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,160
Speaker 2: happened to me big time too. It forced me to

179
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,719
Speaker 2: try to get good at it because I wasn't very

180
00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,719
Speaker 2: good when I started writing, And so it's just been

181
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,360
Speaker 2: a it's it's fun for me, like I like writing,

182
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 2: and it has just been a constant motivator to just

183
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,120
Speaker 2: go try new stuff and be out there as much

184
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 2: as possible.

185
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome I feel like having, especially if you're

186
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: just learning those things. If you've been doing a certain

187
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,080
Speaker 1: hunt or a certain activity for a long time, you

188
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 1: kind of take for granted what new people the lens

189
00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,600
Speaker 1: they see things through. So we kind of like glass

190
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,600
Speaker 1: over some things that have seemed very obvious to us

191
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 1: that we've been doing a long time, But new folks

192
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,360
Speaker 1: who are are just learning about it, then they would

193
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 1: surely appreciate that that perspective. Like as you're learning and

194
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 1: you're sharing like the things that you learned there, like,

195
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's that's great, that's good information. I can

196
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,720
Speaker 1: see that that'd be very valuable.

197
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I mean, you know how it is, like

198
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,480
Speaker 2: I listened to you a couple of weeks ago blowing

199
00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 2: on a bugle tube and I'll bet you could talk

200
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 2: for hours on how to bugle and probably don't even

201
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,400
Speaker 2: you probably don't even understand to what level you could

202
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,400
Speaker 2: teach that because you're so it's so natural to you,

203
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,160
Speaker 2: you've worked on that so much, And I mean, you

204
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:29,720
Speaker 2: know how it is. You take your kids out, or

205
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,959
Speaker 2: you take somebody new out and you have to dial

206
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,080
Speaker 2: everything back and say, here's why I'm doing this. You know,

207
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 2: we haven't heard a bowl in four hours. Here's why

208
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,680
Speaker 2: I'm I'm bugling this way. Or we've got one who

209
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:43,840
Speaker 2: just lit up in the valley below us and it

210
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 2: sounds like Jurassic Park down there, and you're throwing a

211
00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:51,400
Speaker 2: different vibe at them. That teaching somebody that helps you

212
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,080
Speaker 2: get better at it, and it just it's just a

213
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 2: it's a cool thing to do that I think a

214
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,800
Speaker 2: lot of people don't really realize, especially when they get

215
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,200
Speaker 2: into our position, like for long enough, it's sort of

216
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,000
Speaker 2: easy to take it for granted that you you know,

217
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,560
Speaker 2: you say this and people follow it or whatever, but

218
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 2: it's really not not how it works. A lot of times,

219
00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:11,800
Speaker 2: like you really have to think about it from the

220
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,880
Speaker 2: perspective of somebody who's new or you know, somebody on

221
00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 2: their first l coon, deer hunt, whatever, and really kind

222
00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,640
Speaker 2: of reverse engineer this stuff that you you know so

223
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,600
Speaker 2: well to explain it in a you know, like an

224
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 2: easily digestible way. There's there's like kind of an art

225
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,360
Speaker 2: to it that just it seems sort of like it's

226
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 2: easy to sort of gloss over it. Like you said,

227
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,559
Speaker 2: you just you don't realize what goes into this stuff

228
00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 2: until you really break it down and teach somebody and

229
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,719
Speaker 2: then you go, Okay, there's a lot of lessons here

230
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,679
Speaker 2: that I take for granted.

231
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So how many articles do you typically write

232
00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 1: a here? I mean, you've probably got I know, you

233
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:52,720
Speaker 1: told me the other day, so I kind of I know,

234
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,320
Speaker 1: I know what what your workload is right now, But

235
00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,479
Speaker 1: how many how many articles.

236
00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:00,720
Speaker 2: Do you write? Now? Well, when I was a freelancer,

237
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,640
Speaker 2: it was a couple hundred a year, you know, because

238
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 2: you think about the weekly columns, and I mean when

239
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,040
Speaker 2: I got this Meet Eater gig, I was writing five

240
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 2: different columns and so those alone got you into like

241
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,959
Speaker 2: the mid one fifties and then you know, just all

242
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 2: the other stuff. But right now, you know, for Meat Eater,

243
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,720
Speaker 2: probably about I don't know, sixty to seventy a year.

244
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 2: But I also have to write the scripts for my

245
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 2: Foundations podcast and my Foundations podcast, So I have seventy

246
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 2: two of those a year that are three thousand words.

247
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,360
Speaker 2: So it starts to it starts to get up there.

248
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,959
Speaker 2: It just seems like, you know, the output's pretty high.

249
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,559
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it's literally my favorite part

250
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,840
Speaker 2: about this job. Like I love writing, Like I just

251
00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,000
Speaker 2: feel that feels the most natural to me. Like if

252
00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,000
Speaker 2: somebody you know, said what would you give up, or

253
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,440
Speaker 2: like what would be the easiest thing to give up,

254
00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,320
Speaker 2: it'd be filming first. Well, you know, like that's a

255
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 2: different thing, and but the but the writing is it's fun. Man.

256
00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. So did you grow up in a

257
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: hunting family or did you started later in life or

258
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,760
Speaker 1: who was your mentor as a as a new hunter?

259
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,000
Speaker 2: My dad, my dad was a bow hunter, you know,

260
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 2: back in kind of south central Minnesota, you know, probably

261
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,520
Speaker 2: from the time he got back from Vietnam. Uh you know,

262
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,880
Speaker 2: so back in the six late sixties, maybe early seventies,

263
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 2: when it was like they were like five deer in

264
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,200
Speaker 2: the state, you know, and to see one was a

265
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:44,360
Speaker 2: huge deal. And he was always just into bow hunting,

266
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,480
Speaker 2: you know, he was like and I didn't realize this

267
00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 2: at the time. I realized this, now, my dad was.

268
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,120
Speaker 2: You know, my dad was into big bucks just like

269
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,320
Speaker 2: everybody else. But he was just into hunting deer, you know,

270
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,800
Speaker 2: like he just he just liked to hunt deer. It

271
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,280
Speaker 2: was a big deal to get a dough, a big

272
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 2: deal to get a little four ky or a little

273
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,840
Speaker 2: you know, scrap or eight point or whatever. And I

274
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 2: think that was a I think that was way more

275
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 2: important for my kind of formative years than I realized

276
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 2: at the time, you know, because I was like everybody else, right,

277
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 2: I started out and couldn't kill a deer, couldn't see

278
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 2: a big buck. Ever. I mean, it took me, it

279
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 2: took me years and years and years of hard hunting

280
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,440
Speaker 2: to ever kill a big one. And I just remember

281
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 2: being like, why can't we do this like you see

282
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,280
Speaker 2: other people do it, you read the magazines whatever. But

283
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 2: I feel like now, you know, now I can appreciate it,

284
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 2: you know. And he took me. I mean we phezand hunted,

285
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 2: grouse on it, squirrel hunted, rabbit hunted, when turkeys, you know,

286
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 2: when we could start hunting turkeys, you know, because we

287
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,560
Speaker 2: started getting those I think in the sometime in the

288
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 2: late eighties in Minnesota where you could start hunting them.

289
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 2: And he he was applying right away, and then when

290
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 2: I turned twelve, I could apply. And it was just

291
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 2: it was just a good, a good thing. Like we

292
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 2: hunted and fished pretty freaking hard, and we weren't really

293
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,400
Speaker 2: very good at it, but we were like avid. I mean,

294
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,520
Speaker 2: we we got after it. And so that was that's

295
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,080
Speaker 2: kind of I mean, if there's one reason how I

296
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,760
Speaker 2: ended up the way I am, it's because of that.

297
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,280
Speaker 2: My dad just took me hunting and fishing a lot.

298
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. I kind of grew up the same

299
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 1: way my dad. He was quite a bit older though,

300
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 1: he was like fifty whenever I was born, so he

301
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 1: was he was kind of winding down on his hunting.

302
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,560
Speaker 1: He'd moved to Idaho back right after World War two,

303
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,280
Speaker 1: when there were hardly any people and tons of elk,

304
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,000
Speaker 1: and it was just a different kind of hunting versus

305
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 1: whenever I was a kid. But he always made time

306
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 1: to take me hunting and fishing, and it was the

307
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,640
Speaker 1: same thing. It's like if if somebody got a doe

308
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 1: or a buck of any kind, that was that was

309
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,920
Speaker 1: a big deal, like, wow, we got we got one,

310
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 1: you know, and it was it was everybody was happy

311
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 1: and excited in the house. And and I got pretty

312
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,760
Speaker 1: lucky and started getting some pretty decent bucks at a

313
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: pretty early age, just because where we lived there was

314
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,040
Speaker 1: a lot of deer. That that was a very rich

315
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 1: game game environment of a big of big white tail bucks.

316
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,480
Speaker 1: It's kind of a sleeper state, you know. Back then

317
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 1: nobody really knew Idaho had big bucks, but we had

318
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: some really good ones and a lot of deer. Fast

319
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 1: forward to these days, we don't have quite the hunting

320
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 1: like that anymore in that area there. The deer numbers

321
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 1: are down, the age glasses down. But anyhow, if I

322
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't have had, you know, all that that positive experiences

323
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 1: back as a young person, you know, able to go

324
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: out see deer, see lots of deer, able to get

325
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,800
Speaker 1: a deer. You know, I might not have been so

326
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:38,600
Speaker 1: interested in it.

327
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,440
Speaker 2: So was that all rifle hunting or were you both?

328
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 1: Yeah? I started out with rifle hunting and then bow hunting.

329
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,160
Speaker 1: My first taste of bow hunting was for elk I'd

330
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 1: been I was sitting out by this old pond waiting

331
00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 1: for a bear, opening day of a bear season and

332
00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 1: elk season archery elk season. When I was sitting there

333
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 1: with the rifle waiting for a bear, and these elk

334
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,800
Speaker 1: came up and splashed around the pawn, I was like,

335
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: holy cow, they didn't even see me. They're like fifteen

336
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 1: yards away. I'm like, man, I could just shoot that

337
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,199
Speaker 1: bowl with a bow so easy. They laughed and my

338
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,120
Speaker 1: dad picked me up. About two hours later. I'm like, okay,

339
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 1: we got to go to town. I have a bow,

340
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 1: but I don't have any arrows or broadheads. But we

341
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,439
Speaker 1: got to go buy arrows and broad heads. I'm goname back.

342
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,119
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot that elk. He's like, no, you're not

343
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,879
Speaker 1: going to do that. That's that's that. You can't shoot

344
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,280
Speaker 1: an elk with a bow. I said, you can. I

345
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 1: know people that have done it. He's like no, I said, well,

346
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna save my money next year and buy all

347
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,920
Speaker 1: the stuff and get into it. You know, I'm gonna

348
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna shoot it up with a bow and then

349
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,800
Speaker 1: and learn how to call and everything. And the next year,

350
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,040
Speaker 1: as luck would have it, you know, I made enough

351
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 1: money bucking bales for farmers, you know, hey bales and stuff,

352
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 1: and made enough mind to buy a bow and all

353
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,080
Speaker 1: the gear, and I was able to call in a

354
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 1: nice bowl and shoot it on the third day of season.

355
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 1: So from then on I was just hooked on bow hunting.

356
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,720
Speaker 1: And but I've always been an opportunist, you know, whether

357
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 1: it's it's bow hunting or rifle hunting or muzzleoading. I

358
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 1: just like to I'd just like to be out there.

359
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: It's just so fun to get out there. I never

360
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 1: played sports in high school or in school at all.

361
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,920
Speaker 1: I just I would go hunting all the time. While

362
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 1: everybody else is having fun playing football, basketball, whatever, I

363
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,400
Speaker 1: was out in the woods run around. So that that's

364
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: how I got into it.

365
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,840
Speaker 2: I know all about that, buddy. I quit baseball to fish,

366
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,240
Speaker 2: and I quit football to hunt. So I played basketball, yeah,

367
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,560
Speaker 2: because it was it was right in the middle of winter.

368
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,280
Speaker 2: In Minnesota where there wasn't much to do.

369
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:41,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. So I'm a longtime Western whitetail hunter,

370
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,919
Speaker 1: so like I told you, I was, I grew up

371
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: hunting deer, but those are white tails. You know. People

372
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,760
Speaker 1: people think Idaho it's like mule deer, but where I

373
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 1: lived there was there was a few meal dere but

374
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: not too many. But do you have any tips for

375
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 1: guys like me who haven't spent a lot of time

376
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 1: in a tree stand to become more comfortable in a

377
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: tree stand Because I've been going to Kansas the last

378
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,960
Speaker 1: couple of years and I get in a tree stan

379
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm going to fall out of

380
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 1: this dang thing whenever I try to draw my bow.

381
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,159
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a little bit freaked out. So do you

382
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 1: have anything any advice for guys like me?

383
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, you got to get your

384
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,879
Speaker 2: reps in, buddy. I mean, really, the thing about tree stands,

385
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 2: the comfort level comes from safety. So if you you know,

386
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 2: if you're using lifelines right now, and you have a

387
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 2: safety harness, which you should should have both of those,

388
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 2: it's a matter of just getting comfortable then. And I

389
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 2: would guess I don't know this for sure, but on

390
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 2: that on those Kansas hunts, are you putting up those

391
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,360
Speaker 2: stands or are you sitting somebody.

392
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: Else's I'm sitting somebody else's stands.

393
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that sucks. I don't know.

394
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 1: I know there's always that little doubt in your mind, like, ah,

395
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 1: did he do it right? And they're solid? You know?

396
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: Did he feel solid? It looks solid, But you always

397
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: have that like when you do it yourself, I feel

398
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 1: like there's that confidence. I feel like whenever I've set

399
00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: tree stands before in Idaho and I put them up,

400
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't so weirded out about about.

401
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 2: It, right, I mean, it's to me that it's just

402
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 2: I hate it in other people's stands. I just hate it.

403
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 2: It's just a different The setup is never the way

404
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 2: I would do it, you know, And it's just that's

405
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 2: I'm sure when I hang stands, it's the same thing

406
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 2: when people sit in my stands too. But really, I mean,

407
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 2: I think I think one of the best ways to

408
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,320
Speaker 2: do it. And I've started to do this at my

409
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 2: house more, especially hunting out of saddles a lot is

410
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: even even if you hang a stand like four feet

411
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,399
Speaker 2: off the ground, and practice from it. You get pretty

412
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 2: used to your how to maneuver around it and take

413
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,719
Speaker 2: those little baby steps and spin around and shoot and

414
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,919
Speaker 2: you know where where should you you know, tether from

415
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 2: your safety harness be so it doesn't interfere with your

416
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 2: arm all of that stuff, and you know, I mean

417
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 2: the other thing you can do too, is is you know,

418
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,959
Speaker 2: pay attention to how tight your safety harnesses to the tree,

419
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 2: like if there's way more play and you can lean

420
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 2: out like a lot of and this this happens a

421
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: lot with lifelines, so I know, I'm going all over

422
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 2: the place here, but if you can lean out on

423
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: that safety harness and it's tight, which is not necessarily

424
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 2: the best way to maneuver around when you're comfortable, but

425
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: there's like a peace of mind thing there, you know.

426
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,239
Speaker 2: It's like it's the same thing when you when you

427
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 2: start saddle hunting and you lean out for that first time,

428
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 2: it's just like a weird it's an uncomfortable feeling. But

429
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 2: once you get used to it and you trust, you

430
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: know your lineman's belt to go up, and then you

431
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: trust your you know your tether, it's like, oh okay,

432
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: like I I rely on this now, I'm not scared

433
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 2: to lean out and feel that finally, but right away,

434
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,240
Speaker 2: and it's just it's just a numbers game and you

435
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: just got to get in the time. But the easiest

436
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 2: way to get comfortable. I'm starting to do this with

437
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 2: my daughters a little bit because I want them to

438
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 2: get off the ground and start hunting out of trees.

439
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 2: Get into it, even if you set it up two

440
00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 2: feet off the ground, just to get used to wearing

441
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 2: that hardness and get used to the whole process of it,

442
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 2: because it is different. You're right, you know, and everybody

443
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 2: talks about you know, if you have a deer like

444
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 2: way below you and you have that steep angle where

445
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 2: you know you're how to maintain your form and bend

446
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 2: at the waist and all that stuff like, that's great.

447
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: But eight steps before that is just being comfortable on

448
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 2: that little tiny platform spinning around to shoot this way

449
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 2: or that way or whatever. If you if you get there,

450
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 2: if you get comfortable with that, taking that steep angle

451
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: shot is like taking the tough shots is a lot easier,

452
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: Like you don't have to go through a bunch of

453
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: mental gymnastics, but it's a it takes a while to

454
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 2: just get used to it.

455
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 1: I was kind of wondering that, like about you know

456
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: your tether, and like do you sometimes lean out there

457
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 1: and just like let that thing catch and be like

458
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: all right, you know, and make your shot off off

459
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 1: off of that. I was thinking that would probably be

460
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: pretty effective.

461
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 2: All the time. I mean, the last bull elk I

462
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,719
Speaker 2: killed two years ago in Colorado, I was over a

463
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: water hole with a saddle, and I had that shot

464
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: where you lean out shoot behind you kind of so

465
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: you're you're leaned way out, but man, it's it's pretty steady,

466
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 2: like if you're if you're used to it, like it

467
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 2: feels like when you draw, you feel good. But I

468
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: could see where if you weren't used to it, it

469
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 2: would be a freaking nightmare. And you know how it is.

470
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: I mean, the danger of this stuff is if you

471
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 2: take your your mind out of the shot sequence for

472
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 2: half a second, if you have ten percent distraction in

473
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: there because you're worried about falling or whatever, you make

474
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 2: a bad shot. You or you or you don't make

475
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 2: the shot. You could like you might not necessarily make

476
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: a bad shot, but if you're if you want to

477
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: put yourself in a position to make a bad shot.

478
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 2: Take your brain out of the game in those two, three, four, five,

479
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: six seven seconds that it takes you to draw, aim

480
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: and execute that release. And so little stuff like this,

481
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: You know, even if it's just like a little niggling

482
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 2: thing in the back of your head where you're like,

483
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: I just don't feel that comfortable here, there's going to

484
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: be some attrition on your accuracy because your brain isn't

485
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: just dedicated to that little task you have to see through,

486
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 2: and that can become a big deal in a hurry.

487
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I could definitely see that. Yeah, So early

488
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: season white tails kind of want to talk to you

489
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 1: about that a little bit. I know, they're super fun

490
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: to hunt. It's a different time of year, you're not

491
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,399
Speaker 1: you're not as as cold typically, it's a little different.

492
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 1: What do you do to mitigate insects? Are you fighting

493
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 1: mosquitoes and ticks and.

494
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:48,360
Speaker 2: All the time? You know, our tic situation. I mean,

495
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 2: that's not like a huge deal tree stand hunting, but

496
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: we do, we do get a fall hatch of ticks

497
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 2: up here. That can be I mean, it's one of

498
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 2: the reasons I stopped grouse hunting early season, like first

499
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: week October, first two weeks of October if it's warm.

500
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: The Arctic situation is bananas, but the mosquito thing is

501
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: the one. The mosquitoes and nats are what drive you

502
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,439
Speaker 2: nuts white tail hunting, and so I either use a

503
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 2: thermicel and in fact, I hunted Florida a couple of

504
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 2: years ago because they have a summertime deer season, because

505
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 2: they don't run around the seasons, because they don't have

506
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: any seasons down there, And so you're literally calling in

507
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 2: running bucks in like the end of July, beginning of

508
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 2: August in horrible condition. Yes, I mean, oh, it's just

509
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: it was the worst hunt I've ever been on as

510
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: far as just like comfort. I ran two thermoicells down

511
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: there because the mosquitoes were so bad it was almost unbearable.

512
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: And you know, people will say, well, I don't want

513
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 2: something that makes scent, and they can you can smell it. Right.

514
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: I'm to the point now where I will I will

515
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: use a thermo cell and I will spray around my head,

516
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: maybe my hat with with bugs, spray for the for

517
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: the nats, and I just play the wind. And you know,

518
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 2: people a lot of like die hard whitetail people would

519
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 2: probably cringe at that, but I'm gonna play the wind

520
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 2: guy through and through, Like I just believe in that strategy,

521
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: Like if they're up wind to me, they're not gonna

522
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: smell me if I have a thermoicell going. So I

523
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: just got to figure out how to put myself in

524
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 2: that position. Because the one thing that I've started to

525
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 2: do the last several years is if i have a

526
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: day to hunt, I'm trying not to leave the woods

527
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: very much. So even in the you know, I'm not

528
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: saying I sit dark to dark in September fifteenth, because

529
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 2: I don't. But I have found that if I try

530
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 2: to sit till like eleven in the morning or noon

531
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: versus leaving at nine thirty, sometimes those bucks come through late.

532
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: Or if I get out there at one or two

533
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: o'clock in the afternoon, then you're dealing with the hottest

534
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: part of the day in a lot of bugs. But

535
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: I hunt water a lot, you know, I'll hunt food

536
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 2: sources where the shade's going to hit this corner first,

537
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 2: and sometimes you kill a bucket like two o'clock. You know,

538
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: sometimes when the bugs are really bad, a lot of

539
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 2: our deer, and I've seen this in multiple places, we'll

540
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: bed right in a soybean field or right in a

541
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,439
Speaker 2: place where that wind's going to keep the bugs off

542
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: of them. They'll stand up, eat for a while, and

543
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 2: go bed back down. And so those conditions, like the

544
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 2: worst conditions for hunters to me are like the conditions

545
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: I want to be out there, and so, I bugs

546
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: are just a part of it. Heat is just a

547
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: part of it. But if you if you do a

548
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 2: lot of public land hunting, especially early season, if it's

549
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: something that will keep people away, I'm going to go

550
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: hunt it. And I know people don't like to hear

551
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 2: that because they want to wait for the rut and

552
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: it's going to be you know, twenty degrees in the

553
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 2: morning and thirty five at midday or whatever. But one

554
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: of the best ways I've found to just kill big

555
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 2: deer on public land has been to just go hunt

556
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 2: when the conditions just absolutely suck, Like they're just not

557
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: good fun conditions to hunt in. But you're you can

558
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 2: take out a crazy amount of your competition if it's

559
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: you know, the bugs are bad and it's warm, and

560
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 2: so those deer out there living with that stuff every day,

561
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: you know, they figured out how to how to mitigate

562
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 2: some of that that discomfort. So your job is just

563
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: go out and go Okay, I'm going to figure out

564
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 2: a way to manage this and then be there when

565
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 2: most people won't.

566
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: Right on, Well, you mentioned you like to hunt water

567
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: and you like to hunt food plots. You're just probably

568
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: depends on the property. I guess what you're going to

569
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: focus on for early season tactics. I feel like in Idaho,

570
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: you know, we have some agriculture where I grew up,

571
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: and you know, the deer could come out just about anywhere.

572
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: You know, they come out in this corner, they come

573
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: out in that corner. They weren't real consistent. But where

574
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: they were pretty consistent is around water, especially you know, hot,

575
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: dry summer conditions. Do you do you like to hunt

576
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: travel corridors as well, or you can hunt right on

577
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: the water, or you can hut right on the you

578
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,479
Speaker 1: said field edge like the shadowy field edge. Just depends.

579
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: It just depends, man. I mean I like water for

580
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: the same reason you just said there. I don't think

581
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: there's anything more consistent. And you know, I've I have

582
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: one little property that I have a food plot on

583
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 2: that I put the girls on. I don't I don't

584
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: really hunt it because it doesn't it It's just not

585
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: my thing. But I do really like scouting agg fields

586
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: and glass and deer and trying to figure out when

587
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: and where they're going to show up, because it because

588
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 2: you're right, you know it, it's on paper. It's like, well,

589
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 2: those Bachelor that Bachelor group's going to come out in

590
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 2: the same corner every night, and on opening night you

591
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: go in there and you shoot them, and it's like

592
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: when you start watching them, you're like, well they came

593
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: out there last night. Tonight, they didn't come to the

594
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 2: field at all. You know tomorrow they might come in

595
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: some other different spot, and your job is to figure

596
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: out why, right, Like was the wind coming out of

597
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,479
Speaker 2: the west today and the south tomorrow? Like what is it?

598
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: You know, was the sun super bright overhead or was

599
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: it a little cooler and overcast? Like did that change

600
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 2: their approach? And I love that stuff for early season.

601
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: But if I'm looking for some situation with consistency, like

602
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: a high level of consistency, and I'm talking white tails,

603
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: elk meal deer, like you said earlier, bears, water is

604
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: like limited water is your best friend. You know, you

605
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 2: might get into a situation like where we hunt Wisconsin.

606
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: There's water everywhere, so it's just unless there's a water

607
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: source real close to some apple trees or acorns or

608
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: something that's like, you know, an extra kind of bonus

609
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,239
Speaker 2: thing that they're going to, and they just swing by

610
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 2: to that water because it's it's secure and it's close

611
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: that you know, you're kind of in trouble if there's

612
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: a lot of water. But you go out we I

613
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: go out west to some places and there might be

614
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 2: one cattle tank in a couple of sections or that

615
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: little meandering stream, and I'm like, here's this is where

616
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: you kill because they're gonna drink every day and it's

617
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: gonna be super consistent.

618
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you ever like try to call deer early season,

619
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: like rattling or grunning or anything.

620
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: You know, I don't. I don't rattle very much. I've

621
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: just I've killed a few deer that way. I just

622
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: have never I've never had a lot of confidence in it.

623
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: So even it kind of hurts me because even like

624
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 2: when I go to Iowa or I draw a good

625
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: tag somewhere, I'm just I don't rely on it like

626
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: I like to call. I just don't rattle very much.

627
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: And so early season. If you if I see a

628
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: bachelor group of bucks, like if I'm working a group

629
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: of deer, I will use contact grunts a lot, like

630
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: if there's a couple of bucks in the same general area,

631
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: Like I killed a buck in Minnesota, probably, I don't know,

632
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen. Some point I knew there was

633
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: a He was just a really nice eight poin where

634
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 2: he wasn't a giant, but he was hanging with a

635
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: couple of young bucks and he was coming out in

636
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: the soybean field. And I got in there second night

637
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: of the season, and he came out with two other

638
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: little bucks, and they were just feeding, doing bachelor group stuff,

639
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty five yards away, and I started to

640
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: contact grown at him, just like a sharp just one grunt,

641
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: and you know, they picked their heads up, drop their

642
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: heads back down, start feeding, Throw another one at him,

643
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 2: and eventually they started going after each other a little bit.

644
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: And I saw that big deer kind of swing his

645
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: antlers and sort of like posture up a little bit,

646
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: and I was like, he's toast because he's gonna You

647
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: could see the body language change right. Eventually he came in.

648
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 2: They all came in but he came in first and

649
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: I shot him. And it's like there's a situation with

650
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: those early season bucks where they're used to being around

651
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: other bucks, but they're also getting a little sick of

652
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 2: them and they get a little testy, and so they

653
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: will hang together, but there's still even when they're hanging together,

654
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,239
Speaker 2: there's that hierarchy, and people kind of don't think about this.

655
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: We think about dominant bucks, but we don't think about, like,

656
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: what does that mean? Like that three year old one

657
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty inchure that you would look at, go,

658
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 2: there's no way this is the dominant buck here. There's

659
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 2: a one fifteen in the neighborhood that'll kick his ass

660
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: all day long. But that deer is dominant to all

661
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: those two year olds and one and a half year

662
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: olds and all the does. Just like the doz. If

663
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: you start paying attention to individual dos, there's a whole

664
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 2: hierarchy of dominance there too. It all matters. And so

665
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 2: when you get that buck who's like I can whoop him,

666
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: I can whoop him. And now I hear this dude

667
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 2: down there somewhere that I can't see, but he's grunning

668
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 2: at me like I'm gonna I'm gonna go check this out.

669
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: I love that situation and the other thing that I like.

670
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: And people think this is nuts, but it's worked for

671
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: me a lot. I shouldn't say a lot. It's worked

672
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,959
Speaker 2: for me enough where I believe in it wholeheartedly. Is

673
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: a it's a snort wheeze, and people just I don't

674
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: know where this came from. I think it's because we

675
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: never hear deer snortwheeze, right, Like in my entire life

676
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: of hunting out there, I heard one buck snortweeze and

677
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: he was in Texas and there was one hundred and

678
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: seventeen thousand deer around me, and he was just chasing

679
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: nuts and snort wheezing and they were fighting, and it

680
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: was like not a realistic scenario, you know what I mean,

681
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 2: Like it's not I saw. I remember sitting there thinking,

682
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's an hour into the morning, and I've

683
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 2: seen more like shooter class bucks today than I'll see

684
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 2: in an entire season hunting Minnesota, Wisconsin, you know. So

685
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: it's like that's sort of like an artificially curated environment.

686
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 2: So I think we don't hear dear snortwed like we

687
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 2: don't witness this behavior hardly ever, but just because I

688
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm kind of just like a I'll

689
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 2: just try stuff. I started snort wheezing at deer all

690
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 2: season long because I killed a big one in Iowa

691
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: the first time I drew down there, came out on

692
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 2: a dough right at last light, and I he wouldn't

693
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: respond to a grunt, so I snort wheeze at him

694
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: and it took me about five snort wheezes and he

695
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: got to seven yards and I killed him, and I

696
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: was like, oh, okay, like this can work, right, this

697
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: call can work. And so after that, if i'd see

698
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 2: a loan buck I did. It doesn't seem to work

699
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: very well with deer that are together. I don't know why.

700
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: Maybe that's just like my experience, but i'd see a

701
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: loan buck and if you look like he just had

702
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: nothing to do, not that like on a bee line

703
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: to go somewhere, but kind of just like staging through

704
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: the woods, or you know, early in the evening he's

705
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 2: not going to go out to the field yet, or

706
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 2: once in a while you'll see him just you know,

707
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: walking that edge between the beans and the corn, and

708
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: they really you know, they're living pretty good. Some of

709
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 2: those deer are so susceptible to a snort wheeze, even

710
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 2: in September, even in early October. And it's weird because

711
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 2: the reaction out of them, you know, usually pretty quick,

712
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: like you snort wieze and they'll stop and look at you,

713
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 2: and you can almost tell whether you're going to have

714
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: to use a second snort wheeze or not, or they're like,

715
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: I don't I don't like this, you know. And I

716
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: went out the year after I killed that buck in

717
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 2: Iowa and I was just sitting on a stand. It

718
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: was early in the evening. I was on an alfalfa

719
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 2: field and there was a cornfield strip a corn above

720
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: me and then some woods and had a little four

721
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 2: ky walk out and it was like not even close

722
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: to primetime. So I was like, I'm gonna snort weeze

723
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: at him, just just to see what he does. And

724
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 2: I snort weezed at that deer and he came right

725
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: in in front of me and looked around, and I went,

726
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 2: this goes against everything I've ever heard about this. Yeah,

727
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: And so my buddy and I were filming, we were

728
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: going to film the next like I don't know the

729
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: next week or something. It's still September. And we had

730
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 2: antler point restrictions in Minnesota then, so I had to

731
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: be four points on one side. And I saw this

732
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: buck going through the woods and it was early in

733
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: the evening again, and it looked like a decent deer

734
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 2: and I snored wheezed at it, and that buck stopped

735
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: and I was like, man, he looks like he might

736
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: I might be able to talk him in. And it

737
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: took like six of them, but he got all the

738
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,720
Speaker 2: way in and circled down Win and he just happened

739
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 2: to be a big six point. He didn't have any

740
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 2: brow times he couldn't shoot in and he left. Actually

741
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: he got down Win and he winded us, but he can't.

742
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 2: I could have killed him all day long before that.

743
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 2: And I just remember thinking, man, what I thought I

744
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: knew about this call is just wrong. And I hear

745
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 2: people constantly say, like, only dominant buck snortweeze, It's only

746
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: a rut call, and I've just found that to totally

747
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: not be true, and in fact, and the weird thing

748
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 2: about it is, I shot a buck in Kansas one

749
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: time during the rut. I bet I snort weezed at

750
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 2: that deer like thirty times, because every time I'd snort

751
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: weeze at him, he'd come like five yards closer than

752
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: he'd hold up. But every time I would do it,

753
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: he'd get a little closer. And that was like one

754
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 2: hundred and forty in eight pointer. And I had another

755
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: time in Wisconsin hunting public land, and like it was

756
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: like October tenth or something. I was in this big woods,

757
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 2: you know, overgrown clearcut situation with a creek running through it,

758
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: and I had a buck get past me. It was

759
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 2: super windy, and I didn't realize he had made his

760
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: way through there, and he was already like fifty yards

761
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: past me, and so I snort weezed at that dear

762
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: and he stopped and he didn't do anything, and then

763
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 2: he kind of started walking in. I snort weezed again,

764
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 2: and like the third time I did it, I saw

765
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: him like tip his head back like fine, like you

766
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 2: could see him just be like all right, I'm coming over.

767
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 2: And he bristled up and turned around and came in

768
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 2: right to me, and I shot him. And I just

769
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 2: like I've had experiences like that where I go there's

770
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: way more going on with this call than we think.

771
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: And I think all it does is play off the

772
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: fact that these bucks all know who they can beat

773
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,400
Speaker 2: and who they can't, and they almost all have somebody

774
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: who they can beat and who they can't. And I

775
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 2: mean that's just me filling in the blanks. But it's

776
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 2: like it's like that's a dominant deer to some of

777
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 2: the other deer, you know, like the little basket four

778
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 2: kis and sixes or whatever, he's dominant to them. Or

779
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 2: that one forty who you know, you've got that one

780
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 2: seventy on camera, Like, okay, so the one forty is

781
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: not dominant to him, probably right, but think how many

782
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: deer are below him in the hierarchy. And so but

783
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,959
Speaker 2: it's it's really all early season calling. Maybe all deer

784
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: calling is like if you can lay eyes on them

785
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: and work through some of these calls, you know how

786
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 2: to proceed. They're going to tell you, you know, like

787
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,479
Speaker 2: I would never go out there early season and throw

788
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 2: contact grunts out there blindly, Like I would never go

789
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: out there and just snort, wheeze blindly hoping there's a

790
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,439
Speaker 2: buck around, you know, Like that's that's a different thing.

791
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: But when you can see them and you can work

792
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: through some of those, like it can work so much

793
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:54,879
Speaker 2: better than people think.

794
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think people kind of experiment a little

795
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,240
Speaker 1: bit with it and then maybe get a negative reaction

796
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, man, I'm never going to do

797
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: that again. For instance, here a couple of years ago,

798
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: I had the snort Wheeze prototype call we've been working

799
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: on and had this. I had a couple bucks there

800
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: and then this pretty good sized buck. He didn't have

801
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: a big react, but he was just a big, bully,

802
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: bullish looking thing, just big, heavy, mature body. He looked

803
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: pretty old, and he come in all bristled up to

804
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 1: these younger bucks, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I want

805
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: to see what happens with this snort wheeze because he's

806
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: obviously the fat cat in the field right now. You know,

807
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: he's the dominant buck. So I snort wheezed at him,

808
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: and he about turned inside out, like took him off guard,

809
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: jumped like ran over and stood there and stared at

810
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: me for a little bit and then split. But I'm like, man,

811
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: that didn't work work out like i'd hoped or but

812
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I'd really hoped. I just like

813
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: I thought maybe he would probably come over and and

814
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: want to check me out, but I just wanted to experiment,

815
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: to see what would happen and exactly. And then last

816
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: fall I did it again. But this buck was a

817
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: couple hundred yards across his field and he'd kind of

818
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: worked his way through this this crp field and he

819
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: got to the edge of the timber there and he

820
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 1: was kind of stopped there making a scrape. But I thought, man,

821
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna snort wheeze that sucker, and maybe I'll come

822
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: over here. And I snort weezed did him two or

823
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: three times, and he'd stop and he'd stare at me,

824
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: and then he'd go back to work, so I'd hit

825
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: him again, and then he finally just kind of wandered off.

826
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: So I feel like he probably had other things on

827
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: his mind, like he's checking scrapes and not trying to

828
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: fight fight guys right now right.

829
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what, I think a lot of

830
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: people quit too early, Like I think he doesn't come

831
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 2: in and so you go, well, I don't want to

832
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: spook him. But a lot of the deer that I've

833
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 2: killed snort wheezing have taken way more calls than you

834
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,959
Speaker 2: would think. But on that first buck he talked about

835
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: there this is. This might be totally freaking, it might

836
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: be totally whacky, it might not be true at all,

837
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: But I kind of think because I've had bucks do this,

838
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: I've had bucks do that too, where you're like, man,

839
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: he looks like he's primed for this, and they take

840
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: off or their reaction is like super negative, and I

841
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: kind of think, you know, you talk about a Kansas

842
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 2: buck that's four or five six years old, that deer's

843
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: probably visited or went down wind of a million bait

844
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: sites in his life. He lives in a generally more

845
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: visible environment, that deer's probably been called to a ton,

846
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 2: So you know, I know, I mean, maybe that's crazy,

847
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 2: but I really think there's something to that where if

848
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,319
Speaker 2: you think about the average hunter out there and he

849
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: sees a buck that's one hundred and twenty five inches

850
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: and it's not coming in, he's calling to it right

851
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 2: like I mean, grunt, snortwheeze, is rattling whatever those deer,

852
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 2: And you know, if you're around enough pressure, those deer

853
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: might get called to every freaking time a hunter sees

854
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: them in daylight. And so their reaction to that stuff.

855
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: They could just be way more prone to a negative

856
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 2: reaction in a heartbeat. And I always think, like, personally,

857
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 2: my better responses to snort wheezing especially have been in cover.

858
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 2: And I just think, you know, a they can't see

859
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: that there's no deer there, right or not not as easily.

860
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 2: But also I kind of wonder if they're less used

861
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: to getting called to in the cover just because more

862
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: people will hunt openings than anything. And you know, I mean,

863
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: this might be totally it might be total bs. I

864
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: don't know, but I kind of think that. And I

865
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: do know without question, you know, you go, I don't

866
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: care what state it is, if it's October twentieth on,

867
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 2: almost every hunter you meet is going to have a

868
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 2: grunt to for sure, and a hell of a lot

869
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 2: of them are going to have a rattle bag or antlers.

870
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: And if they're not blind calling, you can bet they're

871
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 2: calling to the bucks they see. And a lot of

872
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 2: them are not factoring anything in other than that deer's

873
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 2: not going to come in. So I'm going to try

874
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,399
Speaker 2: what I can to see if I can talk him in.

875
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 2: And so those deer get an education at a level

876
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 2: that I don't. I don't think we can appreciate by

877
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: a one off encounter, you know what I mean?

878
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, that aligns it perfectly with elk hunting. Calling elk,

879
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: especially in open country right people sit there, they'll see

880
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: an elk across the claer cut or something and be like, oh, man,

881
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: I need to cow call that thing in and they'll

882
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: start cal calling the bowl kind of perk up and start.

883
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,919
Speaker 1: We'll look in and like they're not seeing any elk

884
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: over there. Pretty soon they get kind of nervous and

885
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: they just bolt and they get that, you know, a

886
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: couple of times they get pretty wise pretty quick. And

887
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,359
Speaker 1: I feel like, especially in that kind of country where

888
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of clear cut, it's a lot of logging,

889
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of access roads, they're getting

890
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: called that all the time. Anytime someone seats season, they

891
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: jump out of their pickup and start blowing blowing calls

892
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 1: at them, just like, oh, what will happen if I

893
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 1: blow my call at this elk? And when I'm standing

894
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: by my pickup and he can visibly see me, I

895
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: wonder what his reaction is going to be. Well, he's

896
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 1: gonna run away, of course, But people do that of.

897
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 2: Course, I'm sure well they do. And I mean I think,

898
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 2: you know, elk are a little different because an elk

899
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: bugle is meant to be heard from a long ways away,

900
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: and so I don't think I think it's a little

901
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: different with deer, but I think proximity to pressured animals

902
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: and calling is huge. So you see that buck, you know,

903
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: crossing that Kansas prairie, and he's three hundred yards away,

904
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: and you snore it wheeze at him. When you hear

905
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: a buck snort, wieze, it's quiet, and so already you've

906
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 2: done even though you're making the right call, maybe you're

907
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 2: already changing it to something that he can hear that

908
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 2: he just does not expect. Like he's like, I don't

909
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: have a buck anywhere near me, and now I can

910
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: hear one challenging me. Like even even if they can't

911
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: reason that out or a super loud grunt, it's not

912
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: that natural. They know that, you know, they know that, right,

913
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 2: Like they're like, I can look around me, and I'm

914
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 2: perfectly safe. There's nobody around here. I could smell, there's

915
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 2: nobody been here, and now I'm hearing this super loud

916
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: call coming from somewhere it's just a weird thing. And

917
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 2: so it feels like there's a you know, you don't

918
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 2: want them too close, right, you don't want them forty

919
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 2: yards away and snort ways out of blue because they're

920
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: going to take off, you know, kind of like with Elk,

921
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,959
Speaker 2: Like you you hunt Elk that last seat last week

922
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 2: of bow season and they've been pushed around and called

923
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 2: to and everything. It's all about proximity. They're still super callable,

924
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 2: but you got to be in like the dark timber

925
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 2: with them, right, Like they got to be one ridge

926
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: over or they got to be down below you, but

927
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 2: like one hundred yards away or you know what I mean.

928
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 2: Like there's just a range where it just works because

929
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 2: they're like, okay, I can't see it there. That's a

930
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: natural sounding call close to me where I'm I'm where

931
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: Elk are?

932
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: You know.

933
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of that stuff factors together,

934
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 2: and I think the same thing with white tails. There

935
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 2: seems to be just this sweet spot of like, I

936
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: don't know, fifty sixty yards out to you know, one

937
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty one hundred and fifty yards maybe depending

938
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 2: on the conditions, but it's so dependent on them being

939
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,919
Speaker 2: very confident where they're at. And you know, you talked

940
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 2: about that when you get an elk out in the open,

941
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: they might be super comfortable out there, But during hunting season,

942
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 2: the pressure is going to be concentrated around that meadow. Right,

943
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: people are going to go a lot of different places,

944
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 2: but a lot of people are going to go there,

945
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 2: and so they might not just be as confident as

946
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 2: they are in that dark timber where they they smell

947
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: two hundreds a week versus twenty, you know, And I

948
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 2: think white tails are the same way, where if you

949
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: catch them where they're like, this is my spot, this

950
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 2: is my staging area. Nobody hardly ever comes in here,

951
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 2: you know. I know where the people come in, I

952
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 2: know where the predators come in from. When they're in

953
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: that spot, there's so much more callable.

954
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. I'm gonna

955
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: I'm gonna change my tactics, my calling tactics a little bit.

956
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 2: I don't think you need to change your calling tactics.

957
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: Dude, for deer, Yeah for deer. Yeah. Cool. Well, I

958
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you if you could hunt one period

959
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: of the white tail rut, which is your.

960
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: Favorite the rut? Man if you'd asked me five years ago,

961
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 2: I would have said the first week of November. And

962
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 2: I'm really starting to lean hard on that last week October. Now,

963
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: I just think I don't know what it is. I

964
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: just think they're they get into a state where they'll

965
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: they're a little more careless, but still kind of predictable,

966
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: you know. When I when I get into November, you know,

967
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 2: first week in November, first ten days in November, it's

968
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 2: it's like often a reality check for me because in

969
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:11,799
Speaker 2: my head, I'm like, I'm going to go write out

970
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 2: this funnel, this pinch point, some kind of train trap,

971
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: and I'm I'm patient, Like I'll put in all day there,

972
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: for multiple days, and I'm like, that's all I need

973
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: to do to kill one. Except a lot of times

974
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,279
Speaker 2: I do that and I don't kill one. And it's

975
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 2: just different when you get that late October thing where

976
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 2: if you've done some scouting and there's a lot of

977
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,400
Speaker 2: sign out there then so you have a you kind

978
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 2: of have a blueprint to follow, you get those deer

979
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 2: staging or you get the right conditions. I think those

980
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 2: big deer are super killable then, and it's just like

981
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 2: not quite when everybody's going to be out there, you know,

982
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 2: by November first, second, third, every person who's gonna hunt

983
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: is going to be out there in the woods with you.

984
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: And that changes things in a lot of places. Not

985
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 2: you know, if you have five hundred acres to yourself,

986
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 2: it's a different story. But where a lot of people hunt.

987
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: You know, if you're on a small property and you're like,

988
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 2: I got forty acres or twenty five acres to work, well,

989
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: you might have fifteen twenty hunters in that section with

990
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 2: you on Saturday morning in the first weeks of November. Sorry,

991
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,839
Speaker 2: and that even though you're like, I did everything right,

992
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 2: I've my access is air tight. I got in early.

993
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 2: My setup's great. Wins great, Well, those deer are they're

994
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 2: encountering people all over every day just because you're doing

995
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 2: everything right, yeah, you know, like and so I just

996
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: I'm I'm constantly playing the people angle kind of in

997
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: parallel with the deer, and I think way too many people.

998
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: I think this is like the best way to learn

999
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 2: this is to hunt over the counter elk, because you

1000
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 2: might know everything that elk naturally do, and you might

1001
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 2: be able to make every sound that elk naturally make.

1002
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 2: And be a wizard at it. But if you don't

1003
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 2: understand people, you don't kill all very often because because

1004
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: that's you can't divorce your pursuit from the fact that

1005
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 2: the woods are saturated with these predators that the elk

1006
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: are very scared of, and I think white tails are

1007
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 2: the same way. And so any any kind of timing

1008
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 2: where I can be like I have an advantage over

1009
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: the people, then I just have to work the animals more.

1010
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 2: When I go November seventh somewhere and I'm hunting public land,

1011
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 2: I have to consider the people in a major way,

1012
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: and that's that's just harder, you know, So I would

1013
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 2: say the last week October. The other thing I would

1014
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 2: say is I'm starting to really kind of get fond

1015
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 2: of like or November, you know, like fifteenth through twentieth,

1016
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 2: you know, the kind of traditional lockdown period that a

1017
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 2: lot of people talk about. I, you know, just this

1018
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 2: is just from running cameras the last few years, and

1019
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,359
Speaker 2: I kind of got a plan for northern Wisconsin built

1020
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: around this this year. But I really think that people

1021
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 2: get in hot and heavy the beginning of November and

1022
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 2: they really start to peel out, and I'm getting pictures

1023
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 2: in some of these places, like these swamps where it's

1024
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,399
Speaker 2: like once every two or three days, a big one

1025
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 2: will go through there in daylight. And it's not the

1026
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 2: chase fest. It's not like it's not just bonkers like

1027
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 2: you want it. But it's like he's out there with

1028
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 2: his route and he's like, there's fewer people out here.

1029
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna take this risk, and I'm gonna stay

1030
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 2: in the cover and I'm gonna go scent and check

1031
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,800
Speaker 2: these betting areas or whatever. And I think a patient

1032
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 2: hunter who figures that stuff out can have a really

1033
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 2: really good chance of killing big deer kind of when

1034
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: the rut should already sort of be tailing off a

1035
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,000
Speaker 2: little bit for in a lot of regions anyway, obviously

1036
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 2: be a little different down south. So I'm kind of

1037
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: kind of going contrary and again and I'm getting out

1038
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: of like what most people consider the prime time, largely

1039
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 2: because most people consider it the prime time.

1040
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. Man, this has been a great,

1041
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: great conversation. We've given me some pretty good insight here.

1042
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: I have to I'm gonna have to listen to this

1043
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,200
Speaker 1: back and kind of digest it all really well. But

1044
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: I think I think we covered some really good stuff.

1045
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? You got social media or

1046
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,799
Speaker 1: are you just on the meat eater dot com or

1047
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 1: what I mean? Sounds like they probably find you all

1048
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: over the place.

1049
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 2: That all the above, you know, everything we do now

1050
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 2: is for meat Eater obviously, so the mediatter dot com,

1051
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 2: the articles of podcasts, the videos, you know, primarily Instagram

1052
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: at Tony J. Peterson, they can find me. But if

1053
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 2: they want to read anything or listen to, you know,

1054
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 2: the Foundation's podcast I put out every week is on

1055
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 2: the wire to hunt feed at our site, you know,

1056
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 2: and also probably every single place that they you can

1057
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 2: find podcasts too. But there's there's plenty of my stuff

1058
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 2: out there. If anybody wants to just go deep and

1059
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 2: get to the point where they're sick of me, they

1060
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: can go find it because it's it's out there.

1061
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 1: Awesome. Well, I appreciate you coming on and uh yeah,

1062
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: let's uh let's connect again. I got some more questions

1063
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: on a on another podcast. We'll dive down some deep

1064
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: holes and and cover some other stuff here later in deer.

1065
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 2: Season, so anytime, brother, Kay.

1066
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: Well thanks a lot, Tony, Thanks man M