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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Yea, hey, wasn't the stuff through your mind?

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglass. And

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Speaker 1: it is the holiday season. Yes, it is. It is.

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Speaker 1: That is a statement of fact, and uh, it's a

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Speaker 1: statement of fiction. What's your take on Santa? To Santa

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Speaker 1: come to your house? Did Santa come to your house

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Speaker 1: as a child? Santa? Uh? And the idea of Santa

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Speaker 1: was dashed by my brother when I was but a

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Speaker 1: tender six year old. So my feelings on Santa are, yeah,

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Speaker 1: pretty whatever. Now he's he's a jolly old guy, and

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Speaker 1: I do find as an adult though, that his presence

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Speaker 1: is a bit creepy. Well, I feel like to a

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Speaker 1: certain extent he should be a little creepy because there

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Speaker 1: are you know, not to spend much time on it,

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Speaker 1: but there are a lot of different versions of Santa.

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Speaker 1: Do you have the sort of westernized American Santa who

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Speaker 1: is just kind of an overly positive, jolly fat man

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Speaker 1: who brings you gifts and and there's there's just all good.

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Speaker 1: There's you know, you sit on his lap, and and

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Speaker 1: it's so positive that it's like a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: darkness creeps into it. But then there are the older models.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of a gaunt uh St Nicholas,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. These type of characters, I feel like I

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Speaker 1: have more of an inherent darkness to them, so they

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Speaker 1: tend not to be as creepy because they're already the

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Speaker 1: creepiness doesn't grow on it like mold over time. It's

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Speaker 1: already part of the design. So you're you're talking about

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Speaker 1: more of the European representation of Santa Claus are scene

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Speaker 1: through clause, the Dutch Santa. Yeah, the Dutch Santa in particular,

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Speaker 1: because not only is he a bit dark and and

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Speaker 1: a little more. I mean, he's still bringing you gifts.

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Speaker 1: He's still the good cop, but there's also a bad

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Speaker 1: cop to this scenario. And in this I'm of course

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Speaker 1: talking about Crampus. Crampus, the holiday demon. The the one

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Speaker 1: of many types of Crampus is the horn. The beasts

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Speaker 1: that come down from them the hills in in the

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Speaker 1: period before the Feast of St. Nicholas and terrorize naughty

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Speaker 1: children in some cases beat them with sticks or haul

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Speaker 1: them off all together, perhaps to help. So they come

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Speaker 1: they come in advance. And there are the characters like this,

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Speaker 1: like Bell's nickel Um and that that come and sort

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Speaker 1: of terrorize the children. And and they're using the stick

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Speaker 1: as opposed to the carrot to try and get good,

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Speaker 1: good behavior out of them. Where's the good cop, Santa

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Speaker 1: Claus St. Nicholas whoever? Or the baby Jesus on a

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Speaker 1: golden string? If if you're if your check, they are

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Speaker 1: the good cop, and they are trying to dangle the

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Speaker 1: carrot in front of you to get positive behavior. M okay.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about carrot and stick today, what we

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Speaker 1: respond to. And I just want to read a little

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Speaker 1: excerpt from Santa. I don't know if you've heard this before.

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Speaker 1: Quote from Santa. Well, actually, if you reach out to him,

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Speaker 1: Santas elves sorry. He sees you when you're sleeping, he

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Speaker 1: knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been good

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Speaker 1: or bad, So be good for a goodness sake. Are

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Speaker 1: you familiar with that? Yeah, I'm familiar with that. That's

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Speaker 1: the that's those are the famous words. Well, I just

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Speaker 1: can't help but think back to the Panopticon, because we

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Speaker 1: talked about this, we talked about the c and eye

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Speaker 1: of God. And the Panopticon, of course, is the actual

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Speaker 1: structure that was meant as this concentric prison system with

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Speaker 1: this watch tower in the middle that was watching all

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Speaker 1: of the prisoners all the time. But doesn't this sound

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Speaker 1: a bit like Santa Claus, whether or not it's Santa

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Speaker 1: or Crampus. Really, Yeah, the Santa or Crampus to become

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Speaker 1: this uh, panoptic figure at the center of everything. They're

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Speaker 1: all knowing, they're all judging, and uh. And it's right

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Speaker 1: to be afraid of them, right and and uh. And

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Speaker 1: we talked in the Panopticon episode about how it's also

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Speaker 1: the seat of God in the in a belief system,

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Speaker 1: the idea that there's this divine figure there's looking down

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Speaker 1: on you and knows everything you've done and knows what

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Speaker 1: you're doing. And so that's one of the interesting things

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Speaker 1: about this whole Christmas scenario for children, with the with

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Speaker 1: the good cops and the bad cops, with the caret

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Speaker 1: and the stick, because it's it's basically a mini Day

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Speaker 1: of Doom. I've heard I've heard it referred to. It's

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Speaker 1: like a model of the of the more elaborate system

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Speaker 1: that the the adults would have had in which you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a situation of heaven in hell, fire and brimstone

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Speaker 1: eternal salvation, and then for the children it's kind of

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Speaker 1: reduced to a more simpler model. Well, yeah, it's an

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Speaker 1: initiation into the panopticon system, or basically this idea of

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Speaker 1: heaven and hell. Yes, yeah, on a simple level, like

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Speaker 1: people who believe in a in a divine being in

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Speaker 1: God's or goddesses, Like, is any given particular god is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it going to be a benign God that rewards

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Speaker 1: you for good behavior? Or is it a judgmental, harsh,

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Speaker 1: angry god that is all about punishing you for sin?

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Speaker 1: And into what degree do you end up using both?

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Speaker 1: And what sort of personality are you? Right? I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of what I probably would have thought about

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Speaker 1: it before. Are you a personality that responds more rewards

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Speaker 1: or to the possibility of punishment? But it turns out

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Speaker 1: to be a bit deeper than that, of course it

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Speaker 1: always does, right, Yeah, I mean with with humans, of course,

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Speaker 1: there's so many layers of cognition that end up being involved,

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Speaker 1: especially in in something like religion, but even in folk

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Speaker 1: tales for children. Uh, it just gets complicated really fast.

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Speaker 1: But what we're gonna talk about here in the rest

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Speaker 1: of this episode is that there does appear to be

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Speaker 1: a certain genetic factors at work here too. We can

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Speaker 1: actually look at individual genes that are involved in how

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Speaker 1: we deal with positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement with the

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Speaker 1: caret or the stick, the good cop or the bad cop,

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Speaker 1: the Santa Claus or the crampus, because of course it

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Speaker 1: always boils down to that brain, what's going on and

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Speaker 1: how we are genetically predisposed. Of course, genetics isn't everything,

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Speaker 1: but it's very interesting when it comes to something like this.

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Speaker 1: So on that note, we're gonna take a quick break

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Speaker 1: and when we come back, we're going to get into

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Speaker 1: the genetics of reward and punishment. Yes, the holidays are here,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps you want a little holiday viewing, well, head

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Speaker 1: on over to Netflix dot com, where you can find

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Speaker 1: various videos, TV shows, movies, feature films, classics, bad movies

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Speaker 1: as well horror movies, all with a holiday theme to

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Speaker 1: them that you can plug into your brain. Uh And

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Speaker 1: as a new member and a stuff to blow your

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Speaker 1: mind listener, you can get a free thirty day trial membership.

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Speaker 1: All you have to do is go to Netflix dot

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Speaker 1: com slash Blow the Mind and sign up. Be sure

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Speaker 1: to use that U r L Netflix dot com splash

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Speaker 1: Blow the Mind. That way they'll know that we sent you.

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Speaker 1: You're supporting this podcast while also benefiting your eyeballs. You

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Speaker 1: can play all this stuff in your Xbox, your PlayStation,

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Speaker 1: your mobile device. Selection subject to change, but it's always

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Speaker 1: a great deal. So go to Netflix dot com slact

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Speaker 1: blow the Mind sign up today. All right, we're back. Now,

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Speaker 1: let's travel on over to the Netherlands, not to sit

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Speaker 1: on the lap of synth class, but to visit with

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Speaker 1: Hanak than Ordin in Fashion Cools and their colleagues from

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers Institute in Naimahin in the Netherlands, because they

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Speaker 1: have published some very interesting research in the journal Journal Neuron. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, uh Nimangen is uh in the east,

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Speaker 1: in the east of the Netherlands near the German border,

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Speaker 1: so that's definitely St. Nicholas territory and uh and I

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Speaker 1: believe that skrampas territory as well. Um, people may have

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Speaker 1: to correct us on that, but I think he's around there.

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Speaker 1: So what was what was old Heinekey interested in? Well,

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Speaker 1: uh in this study that they conducted, they demonstrated serotonin

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Speaker 1: and dopamine related genes influence how we base their choices

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Speaker 1: on past punishments and rewards. Now, we believe for a

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Speaker 1: while that brain chemicals dopamine and serotonin partially determine our

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Speaker 1: sensitivity to reward and punishment, right, I mean, after all,

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Speaker 1: dopamine is UH is a neuro transmitter that helps to

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Speaker 1: control the brain's reward and plasure centers, and serotonin's keyed

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Speaker 1: into a motion, mood control, digestion, et cetera. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've talked about about serotonin and dopamine countless times and

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Speaker 1: how they end up dictating who we are and how

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Speaker 1: we behave. But you have gene variants for these, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: and that would influence your behavior when it came to

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Speaker 1: punishment and reward. And to test this, the researchers used

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Speaker 1: a simple computer game to test the genetic influence of

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Speaker 1: the genes. D a T one that's the dopamine related gene.

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Speaker 1: Insert a CRT that's the serotonin related gene. As these

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Speaker 1: genes influenced dopamine in serotonin. Yeah, the variance of note

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Speaker 1: here UH for for cert is a five H T

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Speaker 1: T l P r plus R S two five five

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Speaker 1: and then for d A T one or that one

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Speaker 1: which seems that seems to me that one would lead

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Speaker 1: to all sorts of hilarity in the researcher, and but

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Speaker 1: it could be wrong. But anyway, the variant with that

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Speaker 1: one is thirty U t R v N t R

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Speaker 1: thirty one very nice, very nice. Um. During the study,

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Speaker 1: they had seven hundred participants who would repeatedly choose one

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Speaker 1: of two symbols, symbol A, which usually resulted in a reward,

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Speaker 1: or simple B, which usually resulted in punishment. And halfway

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Speaker 1: through the game, however, there was a twist. The rules

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Speaker 1: were reversed, and this allowed researchers to measure how flexible

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Speaker 1: people were in adjusting to their choices, and it also

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Speaker 1: revealed whether they impulsively changed their choice when the computer

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Speaker 1: gave them misleading feedback. So in of the words, they

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Speaker 1: had to sort of readjust and figure out whether or

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Speaker 1: not it's going to be a reward or a punishment.

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Speaker 1: And it's interesting because growing up is is kind of

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Speaker 1: a situation of finding the rules changing on you all

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Speaker 1: the time, Like what's this, I can't poop in my

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Speaker 1: pants anymore? I no longer have that option. That's a

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a game changer. And how am I

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Speaker 1: going to roll with that? What's this? I I can't

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Speaker 1: just you know, run around the house half naked. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I have to change? Well, you know, we're always dealing

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Speaker 1: with changes, are changes in our diet as we get older? Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know? Or Santa Claus not real? Are you kidding?

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Speaker 1: Nobody's watching me. Now I get to assess punishment and

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Speaker 1: reward in a different way exactly. Yeah, and then how

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Speaker 1: do you end up rolling with that? Yeah? Life is

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Speaker 1: full of revelations and new rules, and in our ability

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Speaker 1: to roll with those rules or not roll them kind

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Speaker 1: of ends up where we land in the grand scheme

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Speaker 1: of things. Now, the big result here is that they

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Speaker 1: discover that the dopamine gene affects how we learn from

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Speaker 1: the long term consequences of our choices, while the serotonin

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Speaker 1: gene affects our choices in the short term. So it

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Speaker 1: would follow that some people would be a little bit

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Speaker 1: more hardwired to air on the side, say of being

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Speaker 1: able to learn well with from long term consequences, or

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Speaker 1: they might be more motivated by choices in the short term. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: people's tendency to change their choices immediately after receiving punishment

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Speaker 1: depends on which serotonin gene variant they inherited from their parents. So,

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Speaker 1: in other words, certin is involved in behavioral adaptation following

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Speaker 1: losses in other words, the stick, whereas the dopamine gene variant,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, exerts influence on whether people can

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Speaker 1: stop themselves making the incorrect choice that was previously rewarded.

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Speaker 1: In other words, uh d a t one that one plays,

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Speaker 1: that one plays a role in experience based preservation or

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Speaker 1: the carrot. Okay, So this is important because a lot

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Speaker 1: of neuropsychiatric disorders caused by abnormal dopamine and or serotonin

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Speaker 1: levels are associated with forms of inflexibility like addiction, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: or Parkinson's disease. So you see this being played out

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Speaker 1: in various chemicals in the brain in the extreme. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so and this it goes. The ratifications of a study

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Speaker 1: like this are far more than just oh, we know

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Speaker 1: how we inherit aspects of who we are. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is actually stuff that will be able to use

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Speaker 1: in the future to to deal with some of these

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Speaker 1: crippling disorders. All right, so there's an interesting blond called

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Speaker 1: neuroscience in the Law and is edited by Alex Verbeck,

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Speaker 1: who says a quote, A minority of Parkinson's patients who

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Speaker 1: undergo dopamine based therapies will develop persistent and potentially ruinous

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Speaker 1: impulsive behavior disorders, for example, chronic gambling. And this is

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Speaker 1: in patience with no prior history of problem gambling. But

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Speaker 1: once they start to get some of the dopamine based therapies,

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Speaker 1: their behavior changes. Now, Verbett goes on to say that, um,

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Speaker 1: that you can look at say chronic meta amphetamine us right, meth,

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Speaker 1: and you can see that it manics for reproduces the

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Speaker 1: effects of genetic mutations that would predispose someone to impulsive

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Speaker 1: or injurious choices. And what Rebetta goes on to say

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Speaker 1: is that the majority of programs UM have a long

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Speaker 1: term thinking and planning these rehabilitation programs from meth addicts,

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Speaker 1: and what happens is that they suffer from a high

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Speaker 1: washout rate or a high recidivism rate because of this,

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Speaker 1: because it's not really appealing to more of what we

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Speaker 1: would say is the carrot here, and that this is

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Speaker 1: something that when you're talking about neutoscience and law, and

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Speaker 1: you're talking about addicts that you really need to think

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Speaker 1: about in terms of rehabilitation, that inherently the system isn't

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Speaker 1: set up for success if it's not appealing to the

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Speaker 1: correct ways in which the person perceives the reward or

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Speaker 1: the punishment. Yeah, they have more carrot wiring in them

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Speaker 1: at this point. Therefore, it would make sense that you

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Speaker 1: wouldnit any kind of rehabilitation program would need to be

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Speaker 1: more carrot centric. Yeah, I mean, and this is true

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Speaker 1: of kids too, even in terms of lying. And we've

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Speaker 1: discussed kids and how much they'll lies. Something like a

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Speaker 1: six year old drops a whopper every like ninety minutes.

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Speaker 1: By whopper, I mean lie. Um. We were talking scat earlier,

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Speaker 1: just to be clear, Um. But it turns out that

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Speaker 1: again the reward and not the punishment is really key

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Speaker 1: they haven't been punished for lying, they actually will stop

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Speaker 1: the lying, whereas if they get punished, they continue to

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Speaker 1: do it over and over again. And there's some really

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Speaker 1: interesting studies in this book called Nurture Shop by Poe

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Speaker 1: Bronson and Ashley H. Merriment and they go over this territory.

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Speaker 1: But the point that seems to be arising, at least

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Speaker 1: from a good amount of scenarios is that the stick

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Speaker 1: isn't always that helpful, and yet it's one of the

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Speaker 1: I would say pillars of society, at least Western society. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you look, I mean that's that's that's always

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Speaker 1: been a big issue of course, in crime and punishment.

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Speaker 1: To what extent is that does does prison just become

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Speaker 1: a punishment to what extent we as a culture become, uh,

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Speaker 1: just completely wrapped up in the idea of punishing the

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Speaker 1: guilty rather than trying to rehabilitate people and turn them

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Speaker 1: around and give them some sort of carrot at the

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Speaker 1: end of the hallway. You know, what's weird? What's weird?

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Speaker 1: I came across the study that said that if you

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Speaker 1: want to be able to control your impulse, right, and

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Speaker 1: let's say that you're you're in a situation and you're

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Speaker 1: there's a buffet in front of you, you are actually

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Speaker 1: going to be able to control those impulses, not by

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Speaker 1: the reward of the punishment of the situation, but by

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Speaker 1: your bladder, whether or not it's full. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: talking about bursting full because you know, then no cognition

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Speaker 1: occurs other than hey, I have to go to the

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Speaker 1: bathroom right now. But according to Dr Merrisham Tuk, who

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Speaker 1: led a study on this, the brain's control signals are

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Speaker 1: not task specific, but they actually result in an unintentional

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Speaker 1: increase in control over other tasks. When your bladder is

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Speaker 1: full and it's saying, hey, I'm full, and you're trying

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Speaker 1: to control that response to p all over the place,

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Speaker 1: isn't that fascinating, Like you're trying to control that. So

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Speaker 1: then you have a plateful of food in front of

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Speaker 1: you at the same time, and and and you make

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Speaker 1: the decision to control your impulse on that as well.

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Speaker 1: H Well, you know, I've often heard that if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to control your appetite, a lot of times when

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Speaker 1: we're hungry, we're actually thirsty and therefore drink more water.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like it would pay then to keep

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Speaker 1: your bladder at at kind of a full level, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, not to where you're just you know, you're

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Speaker 1: risking like complete urinary implosion, but but just enough to

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Speaker 1: keep you on edge, Like I feel. It's like sometimes

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Speaker 1: I'm like that and when we come into record of podcasts,

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Speaker 1: my my bladder are we just full enough that I'm

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Speaker 1: just a little on edge the whole time without actually

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Speaker 1: peeing myself? And I haven't really broken it down as

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Speaker 1: the wind as to why it works. But and certainly

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Speaker 1: I haven't thought about it much in terms of impulse control.

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Speaker 1: But but I don't know. I feel like I do better,

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Speaker 1: I perform better if I have a slightly full butter,

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Speaker 1: you know what. I do the same thing with podcasts sometimes. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gotta admit. And now I'm curious about you guys.

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Speaker 1: Have there if there are certain tasks that you consciously

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Speaker 1: do with a semi or full bladder. Yeah, and do

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Speaker 1: you know you're doing that on purpose? Let us know? Yes,

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Speaker 1: let us know. And hey, let us know what you

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Speaker 1: think about the carot and the stick in pretty much

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Speaker 1: any context you can imagine, be it rearing a child,

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Speaker 1: being a child, uh, celebrating Christmas, UM, to partaking of

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Speaker 1: your culture, UM, dealing with with crime and punishment on

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Speaker 1: a on a national or international level. UM. Let us know.

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Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Uh. And you know,

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Speaker 1: and I also would love to to hear about your

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Speaker 1: own particular take on holiday traditions to what extent they

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Speaker 1: fall on the scale between you know, outright uh, stick thrashing,

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Speaker 1: negativity and darkness uh. And on the other end of

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Speaker 1: the scale, you know, candy and puppy dog tails and bright,

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Speaker 1: jolly old elves and carrots. Uh. You know. Since we

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Speaker 1: have a few spare moments here, let's call over the

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Speaker 1: mailbot and see what we have to read. All right,

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Speaker 1: this one comes to us from Sam. Sam write sentences high,

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Speaker 1: Robert and Julie. My name is Sam from Aberdeen, Scotland.

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Speaker 1: I've been listening to your podcast for a long time

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Speaker 1: and they helped me get through my work day and

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Speaker 1: I love them. But this is my first message to yourselves.

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Speaker 1: I was just listening to your podcast on autotommy and

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Speaker 1: it made me think of the lizard from the Amazing

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Speaker 1: Spider Man Number six created by Stanley and Steve Ditko

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Speaker 1: in November nine. The villain is the Newest is In

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Speaker 1: the Newest Spider Man movie, Dr Kurt Connors tries to

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Speaker 1: regrow his arm using lizard DNA. It works, but ends

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Speaker 1: up changing him into a giant, crazy lizard. Compared to

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Speaker 1: the research is going on today with the regeneration they

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Speaker 1: were thinking far ahead of their time and the dangers

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Speaker 1: that may come with it, obviously in a worst case scenarios.

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Speaker 1: It always amazes me the kind of books and sci

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Speaker 1: fi from about forty years ago are filled with science

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Speaker 1: ideas that they are researching in the modern age. Keep

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Speaker 1: up the fantastic work, Thanks Sam. And indeed, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the great things that we've talked before about science

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Speaker 1: fiction is that it's science fiction is always a reflection

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Speaker 1: of a particular time period and their own dreams, aspirations

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Speaker 1: and fears about where science is going to take us

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Speaker 1: and uh and and more often than not, you'll find

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Speaker 1: some interesting uh um interpretations of where we're gonna go

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Speaker 1: in the future, and some of those hold out to

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Speaker 1: be really true. Did you We also got a comment

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Speaker 1: by Paula and she is responding to a video on

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Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com, a video on

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Speaker 1: smiling and we also have a podcast episode about this too.

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Speaker 1: She says, now, I am a longtime smiler, admittedly tipping

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Speaker 1: over into billy laughter pretty often, so definitely above that

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Speaker 1: twenty smile average a day for adults. So then she

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Speaker 1: goes on to say that she put a pencil in

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Speaker 1: her mouth to try to mimic that pencil in smiling study.

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Speaker 1: She said she didn't watch a funny funny visual, but

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Speaker 1: she thought about a scene in The Big Bang Uh

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Speaker 1: television show and she that I've seen actually that had

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Speaker 1: her falling off the couch laughing when she first saw it.

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Speaker 1: And she said, the smile then pushed in from the

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Speaker 1: muscles further out from the edge of my mouth. When

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Speaker 1: I felt that part of my cheek move it pressed

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Speaker 1: against the pencil, I felt a chortal moving from my

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Speaker 1: chest to my face. I wonder if you are a

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Speaker 1: habitual smile laugh person, if you routinely move more muscles

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Speaker 1: in your face, that you have more neuron connections making

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Speaker 1: it harder to squelch with the pencil and the mouth

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Speaker 1: question mark. So, you guys have given me so much

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Speaker 1: to think about, but you almost always managed to get

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Speaker 1: in something that also gives me a big grin a

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Speaker 1: total brain delight. Thanks Paula. Huh, that's I think that's

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Speaker 1: a really good question. If you smile more often, do

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Speaker 1: you have more neural tonal connections? Um, is it harder

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Speaker 1: to not smile? Essentially? Huh? That is an interesting question

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Speaker 1: and it also makes me, think about scuba divers. What

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Speaker 1: do you have Underwater's actually really hilarious, but scuba divers

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Speaker 1: always have the apparatus in their mouth, so they can't

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Speaker 1: laugh as much. It could just be absolutely hilarious down

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Speaker 1: there if you're there in person, but they never get

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Speaker 1: to laugh unless you're in some sort of specialized submarine,

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Speaker 1: which is a little more rare. Huh. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: That's another test that that could be completed. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about the pencil thing, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: my first thoughts were smokers do so would it affect

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Speaker 1: smokers because smokers, you don't have it in your mouth

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Speaker 1: the whole time the cigarette and they were moving into

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Speaker 1: the corner of their lips right, however, they are using

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Speaker 1: those muscles that are drawing their lips downward in the

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Speaker 1: corners of them downward. And we did see in one

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Speaker 1: of those pencil smile frown tests that if you had

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Speaker 1: the pencil vertical in sort of like a cigarette position,

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Speaker 1: that that people did not get the sort of emotional

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Speaker 1: jolt from others when they were looking at photos of

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Speaker 1: happy people and smiling people. Huh. Well, there's an area

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Speaker 1: of exploration for the future. All right, So there you

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Speaker 1: have it. We'd love to hear from. You can find

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00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 1: it in all the normal places, of course. Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com is our main homepage, our mothership,

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00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: and that's where you will find all of our blog posts,

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00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 1: all of our podcast episodes dating back to the very beginning,

405
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: as well as our weekly video series. We've been out

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00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 1: the three a week these days and they're always worth

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00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 1: checking out. Um. You can also find us on social media.

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Speaker 1: We're on Tumbler, Facebook, Twitter, Google Plus, on YouTube, were

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Speaker 1: Mind Stuff Show and the News. Of course, another way

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00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,399
Speaker 1: they might send a letter to us, that's right, You

411
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: can send a letter to us, particularly if you would

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00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 1: like to discuss if the Elf on a shelf it's

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00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: just a stand in for the pen off to come

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Speaker 1: watch Tower Guard. You can let us know at Blow

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Speaker 1: the Mind at Discovery dot com. For more on this

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Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how staff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: MHM