WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 169 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.120 Calzon Media. 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.680 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.360 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.680 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.520 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.000 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:20.960 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:22.720 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.840 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.880 Welcome, Dick, It happen. Hear a podcast about things falling 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.400 apart and them continuing to fall apart. I'm your host, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.560 Na Wong with me as James Stout. 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:35.760 Hi. 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.839 Miya glad to hear about what I was going to 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:38.479 shit today. 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:42.400 Yeah, so before we start talking about imperialism, we're starting 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.440 everything episode with this. Until you people stop, until you 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.640 stop doing this. It is the year two thousand and 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:53.120 twenty five. We are a quarter of a century into 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:57.360 this millennium and people are still getting kettled by cops 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.840 on bridges. I did this occupy in twenty eleven. They 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.120 did it in twenty eighteen during the Occupy Ice protest. 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:05.800 The people did it in twenty twenty, people did it 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:08.880 last year. During the dream of the power signing cam lets. 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.200 People are doing it again this year. Simply do not 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:13.240 lead a march onto a bridge, yep. 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.800 Or a tunnel to AI reasons, we would also include 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:16.199 a tunnel. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:17.399 Yes, don't do the tunnel either. 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.000 Yeah. If there's no side exits, just don't. 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:22.679 Yes, here's the thing. The moment you walk onto a bridge, 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:24.800 all the cops have to do is take both exits 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.040 and everyone on the bridge gets arrested. You can simply 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.200 not do this. If you must do it, you need 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.440 to like make one thousand percent sure you can hold 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.120 both sides of the bridge. Yeah, both of them. You 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.600 need to all both of them. Yeah, and almost certainly 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.440 you can't. So only you, only you, dear listener, can 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:46.160 prevent four thousand more people from getting kettled on fucking bridges. 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.280 And I'm going to keep starting episodes hockeyboll get it, 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:52.200 don't get kettled up bridges until this stop. All right, 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.040 this is what this has been me as public service 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.840 announcement of a bridge kettling. Let's get into the nature 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:01.880 of imperialism and why Trump's is different. So we've been 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.640 covering a lot of Trump's sort of I don't know 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:09.360 the trade wars, his call for the US to seize 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.720 the Gozel strip, a whole bunch of stories about the 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.800 way that Trump is using the power of the American 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.880 state to do imperialism. And I think it's worth actually 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.959 taking a second to unpack this because things are probably 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:24.919 going to get worse. There is a non zero chance 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.600 that we effectively start a war with Mexico in the 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.000 next few months. 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.440 It's great, it's spanging. Everything's going so well. 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:38.880 Yeah, But I want to start with talking about the 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.160 way that Trump has been using tariffs as as a 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.440 sort of political weapon and not as an economic tool, 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:46.799 but varies very specifically as a political weapon, and how 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.120 this differs from the previous economic regime, because I think 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.400 there's been a lot of you know, as the terroriff's 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:53.920 the threat of the tariffs go up, in the markets 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.840 sort of tank in fear of them. There's been a 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.520 lot of sort of defense of like free trade in 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.400 ways where I don't think people actually understand what's happening. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.640 And to understand how what Trump is doing is different 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:08.520 from the stuff that's come before, we need to actually 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.920 understand what trade is now. When an economist talks about trade. 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.639 They go, oh, yeah, obviously, trade is when two countries 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.600 exchange a thing, right, yep, But that's not actually what 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.400 most of the stuff on earth that is labeled as 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.240 global trade, that's not what it is, right, Look at 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.160 like US Mexico trade. We're going to go a bit 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.079 more into detail about what that stuff is. But do 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.600 you know what most not most, but you know what 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.240 a huge portion of US Mexico trade is. It is 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.640 the same company, the same company moving an auto part 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.839 from one side of the border to the other, back 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.040 and forth across the body. 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:44.600 Yeah, I suppos got to say. 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:46.560 Yes, back and forth. Right, So it's a lot of 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.880 different people being paid different wages can make the same thing. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.880 Yeah, or if someone paid lower wages can make it. Yeah, 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:55.960 someone paid more con Q see it and then they 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:56.640 can send. 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:57.160 It back yep. 0:03:57.240 --> 0:03:58.840 Yeah, very very common. 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.000 Yeah, And this is actually a real substantive problem with 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.080 the way that I think everyone thinks about trade, because what 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:06.760 is happening here, and this is an argument that the 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.560 anti globalization movement used to make. You know, David Graeber 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.960 like makes this argument a lot, and they're right, which 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:14.720 is that most things that we think of as quote 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.120 unquote global trade are just a single corporation moving a 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.679 resource around the world so that they can produce something. 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.719 Yea and exploit labor at some impossible exploitation rate. 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:29.239 Yeah, you know. And this means that using nation states 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.240 as a way to understand trade is an absolutely terrible 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.760 way to think about global economy. Right there, there are 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.280 some things we're thinking about specifically nation state trade, Like 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.839 trade is important because you know, even even the same 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:46.880 corporation moving goods around, right, that does contribute to how 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.560 much foreign currency a country, right right, And so okay, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.200 there's things like balance of payments where if you run 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:53.560 out of it, if you're a country and you run out 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.240 of American dollars, suddenly you can't employ like fuel anymore 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.200 in your country, like explodes, And that's a very common 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.400 way that like this happens in Trilanck, for example, pretty recently. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.279 This is a way for your economy to blow up. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.080 But that's kind of an edge case in terms of 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:09.560 how global trade actually operates. But the problem is that 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.680 it is to the advantage of the ruling class for 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:14.520 you and everyone else to think about trade as something 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.039 that's like a war between you and the country next 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.839 to you instead of a corporation. Like fucking over everyone 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.479 involved in this entire thing. Now, there's a pretty interesting 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:27.400 book that I read recently called Border Economies Cities Bridging 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.799 the US Mexico Divide by James Greber Gerber Nicks Gerber, Okay, 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:33.760 And one of the things he points out is that 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.520 the two largest trade relations between any country, any two 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.640 countries on Earth are the US in Mexico and the 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:40.599 US in Canada. And those are the countries with the 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:45.880 highest tariffs that trumbles attempting to apply. Yeah, and it's 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:51.240 worth actually understanding what this does by looking at what 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.000 actually is traded between, for example, the US and Mexico. 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:57.960 And the place I want to start is that one 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.359 of the largest kinds of goods is moved from from 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.280 Mexico to the US is computer equipment. And nobody fucking 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:09.040 talks about this ever, No one, like zero fucking people 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:11.360 talk about this. I am convinced this is because of racism. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.520 But Mexico is a huge sort of like assembly place 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:17.960 for a whole bunch of things like monitor screens, like 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:19.760 computer equipment in general, and a lot of that stuff 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:23.760 comes into the US. And there's also you know, the thing, 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:25.640 the thing that we started this episode on. That's I 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:27.480 think the thing I gets talked about the most now 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:30.760 is transportation equipment, right, And this is a combination of 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:35.440 consumer vehicles and also like heavy duty cargo trucks, which 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.000 are unbelievably important for the maintenance of the American economy, 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.640 right of the entire global economies. Like having these trucks 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.279 is a sort of vital infrastructure thing for the United States. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.200 You can move stuff around a lot of that cost 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:49.839 in Mexico. And then also like a lot of it 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.000 is like whole cars that are like like finished assembly 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:54.640 like in Mexico, and they get shipp across the border 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.920 and there's a lot of things there. And these are 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.120 also like all the same international companies that work in 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.760 the US. So it's like Toyotas like Konda. 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.840 Yeah, I mean these are your American trucks often, right, 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:07.440 or like. 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:11.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, four does this too? Yeah, what's GM 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:12.800 now Stalores. 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.040 Yeah, yeah, like Chevy GM like these as well as 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:17.560 like Toyota. 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:18.800 Toyota I think has a big planet. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.160 I forget exactly where, but along the board is somewhere 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:22.160 if I recall correctly. 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:26.560 Yeah, yeah, this is extremely common Yeah. And what this is, right, like, 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:30.880 this is multinational capitalist companies who are moving their products 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.360 across the border. Yeah, and this gets counted as Mexico 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.760 doing trade. You know. One of the things in one 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.920 of the questions in this book is about why Mexico's 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.840 economy never had the kind of economic bump that China 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.920 did from the amount of industrial production if you look 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.080 at like the East Asian tigers, right right, And I 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.320 think part of that is actually something that is not 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:52.880 mentioned in the book, which is if if you look 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.000 at the East Asian economies that that develop their economies 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.040 that you're talking like your South Korea's, et cetera, cedule 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.760 like a lot of those countries, like Japan, there was 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.000 a lot of US military investment there in a way 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.240 that's just not true of Mexico. Like Mexico is not 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.920 like a place where you offshore you're supplying your supplies 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.120 to because you need to move stuff to you know, 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.760 fight the war in Vietnam. But you know, one of 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.120 the other reasons is that, Yeah, Okay, so like where 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.880 is all the profit from the international trade going. It's like, well, 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.520 it's going to a bunch of American and Japanese car companies. Yeah, 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.680 because it's it's those those multinationals are the people who 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.320 actually reap all of the benefits. 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.800 Yeah, to a degree, like post NAFTA, right, post ninety four, 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.280 it has created a class of people in Mexico who 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:38.520 have benefited from it, but it has it has not 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.520 lifted up like like the average income. Right, It's created 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.679 a greater disparity of income than at any point. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:44.160 Yeah. 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:45.199 Yeah, previous to that. 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:46.760 And you'll hear people I was talking to us Ran 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:51.800 about this yesterday in Tijuana, like how like what NAFTA did, 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:53.480 Like now, if you look at nineteen ninety four, I 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:54.920 think it's a really good example of what you're talking 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.679 about of Like, yeah, we opened up that border to 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.000 international companies to do tariff free back and forth, right, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:02.440 but we didn't open it up to people. 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:02.960 Yeah. 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.160 At the same time, we had Operation Gatekeeper, right like 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:09.480 enforced much harsher border enforcement. And the two things in 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.400 parallel really kind of indicate, yeah, what the free trade 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:13.200 is going for. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:13.679 Yeah. 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:15.640 Yeah, And you know, and this is another old anti 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:17.880 globalization thing like we ever talks about. This is like yeah, 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.480 free like free trade is about the free movement of 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.360 capital and the unfree movement of people, right, Yeah, so 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:26.920 it's about locking people down in place so you can 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.080 like you can you can dictate wages to them, and 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:32.040 then moving capital around the world to avoid them exactly. 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:32.360 Yeah. 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.839 Yeah, and we're gonna get into this more in a second, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:36.000 but I want to talk about some you know, some 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.719 of the other things that are that are exported from 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:42.439 Mexico fruits, vegetables, alcohol, or like huge exports. 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:43.959 Yeah. 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.160 And then also and this is something that I don't 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.679 think is people don't understand what's happening very well. Is 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.680 there's a lot of oil from Mexico that's shipped to 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.360 the US. But the thing that's happening there, and this 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.040 is the thing that's very weird about the oil industry, 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:03.959 is that the refinery facilities are not in the same 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:07.960 country as the extraction facilities a lot of the time. 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.200 So this oil is getting shipped around because they don't 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:13.880 have the refinery facilities to like refine the specific kind 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.000 of like crude oil or whatever that they're extracting. So like, yeah, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.120 it's again one of these situations where it's not really 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.480 like Mexico is sending its oil to the US. It's 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.959 like I mean kind of right, that's like one of 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:28.640 the more direct issh ones, But largely what's happening is 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.080 that like again like it's an oil company moving stuff 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:34.040 to you know, moving stuff around to do refinement of 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.640 it so they can sell it. Now There's there's been 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:38.760 some other stuff happening with Mexico that's a kind of 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:41.560 reaction to Trump's previous thing. And I think the extent 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.640 of this has been overblown to some extent, but a 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.240 lot of very low end manufacturing stuff has been leaving 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:49.880 China for a long time. This is one of my 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.440 media things on the show, is that this has been 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.600 happening for a while because labor price has been rising 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:56.880 in China and one of the places that these things 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:58.360 went to is Mexico. So there's been a lot of 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.880 like direct investment from trying to et cetera, et cetera, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.040 and all of these things. You know, like these these 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.520 these kind of movements. I'm talking about them because these 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.800 kind of like seismic global economic shifts right of the 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.800 kind that we're going to be see are driven by 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.319 a lot of things, you know, I mean this stuff 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.240 like currency valuations, like local tax laws, like state corporate 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.800 planning policies like demands or just blah blah blah blah blah. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.320 But one of the single most important things is the 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.520 state of class struggle in a country and what effect 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.880 that has on wages or like, you know, like straight 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:27.640 up uprisings. 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:27.920 Right. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.959 The geographer David Harvey, he gets credit for popularizing the 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:35.839 term the spatial fix, though other people were already using it, 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.760 and I don't like his work much, but he did. 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:41.000 He is the guy who gets credited with this. He describes, 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.280 you know, the sort of free trade regime that that 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:46.319 persisted roughly through like now. I mean it was it 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.520 was taking shape in sort of the eighties, like the 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:52.880 eighties through like roughly now, as the spatial fix for 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:59.360 declining profitability. Right, you know what else has declining profitability? Well? 0:11:59.400 --> 0:11:59.840 I don't know. 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.120 The worst things get the more people are listen to 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:04.160 our podcast, and you can say that. 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:16.400 We are back. Okay, So let's talk about this, this 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.960 sort of declining profitability and the fix that capitalism sort 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.679 of finds fit this, right. You know, through the seventies 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.600 there's this sort of spiraling unemployment and inflation and the 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.640 economy is sort of going to shit. And it's happening 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:32.000 everywhere because they're sort of like structural overcapacity and manufacturing. 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:34.640 And the solution to this is a spatial fix, right, 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.600 which is destroying some manufacturing capacity and just moving it 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.280 to other places. Yeah, and you know, and this is 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:42.240 this is sort of what James was talking about earlier, right. 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:44.480 The goal is to sort of weaken the power of 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.199 the working class by locking people down into their countries 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.640 and then moving capital to poorer countries, the weaker labor 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.400 protections and also a weaker level of sort of like 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:55.079 workers organization, right. 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.600 Yeah, and then it leaves like the previously well organized workers. 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.280 Like if you look at the industries and the places 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.679 where my grandparents come from, the dog workers and minors, right, 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.679 those are not really jobs that are employing large numbers 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.199 of people in the UK anymore. And like as a result, 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.280 those working class towns are just destitute, you know. So 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.960 that previously thriving a well organized working class that we 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.480 had northern England, it's left kind of like it has 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.920 to relocate or reorganize, right, and it destroys those like 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.560 nexuses of working class power that existed in Britain up 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:31.240 until the eighties. 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:32.800 With a minus strike, right, Yeah, and. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:34.960 This was this was done deliberately, yah, right. I mean 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:37.760 there there's always a debate in the literature about to 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.520 what extent, like neoliberalism was like planned, or to what 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.880 extent it was you know, a sort of reaction to 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.200 a bunch of crazies. But specifically this kind of like 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.440 offshoring and the container ships have been part of this, 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:52.080 but like this specific kind of thing, and even the 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.520 transition cold oil was like was a very deliberate thing 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.480 done by like done by sort of American and British 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.000 politicians in order to sort of break the power like 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.400 miners unions. And you know, one of the major places 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.480 that this went obviously like a lot of these things 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.480 go to Mexico. The sort of first round of these 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.480 go to like the original like Asian tiger economies I 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.280 was talking about, Well, I mean places like it, like 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.400 Indonesia too, with a lot of those economies sort of 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.640 like Thailand, those commies kind of blew up in the nineties. Yeah, 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:22.480 but you know, one of the largest, most important ones 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:27.000 was China. And you know it's important to sort of 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.600 remember I've talked about this on the show before. A 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.120 lot of this is also the product of Tianoman Square, 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.000 because the thing that's important to remember about Tianneman is 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.840 that contra both sort of liberal histories of Tiannemen and 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:42.720 also the sort of CCP line. Most of the people 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.200 who died at Tannama were workers, right, Most people who 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.960 were executed after Wridge were workers. They were like students died, 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.400 but it was mostly workers who were killed. And a 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.240 lot of what happened there was that, you know, Tanneman 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.520 was like the last time that China's like trade union federation, 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.440 which is like now such a joke that it's like 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.000 it's genuinely a subject of academic debate and discussion as 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.480 to whether you can even literally consider it a trade union. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.320 Like that's that's how fuck it is. And the last 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.800 time that Chinese trade unions took a political stand was 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.720 in favor of the Tianeman protests. And then the army 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.720 shows up and just like like slaughters their base. Yeah, 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.360 And what this does is it breaks the old Chinese 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.840 working class, right, It breaks the alliance with the students 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.880 that they'd had that was you know, and that was 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:32.040 a durable political force dating back to like the nineteen twenties, right, 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:36.520 And it breaks this extremely militant, well organized Chinese urban 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.200 working class and replaces them with a more exploitable and 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.720 less organized like migrant working class yea. And that is 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:44.840 the class that like to this day right now is 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:46.960 like the engine of global capital or like those like 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:49.040 three hundred million migrant workers yep. 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.240 And they can be in different parts of the world, 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:53.200 right like the other way. 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.160 The three hundred million number, that's just the microtworkers in China, Jesus. 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.120 To be clear, there are a lot more internationally. Yeah, 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.680 but yeah, China's miketworking population is like almost the size 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.040 of the US. It's like the fourth largest country in 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:04.880 the world just by like itself. 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.440 It's yeah, that's mad. 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.640 I was just thinking of today, like the scam compounds 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:14.720 which exists on the border between me and Mah and Thailand, 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.400 like they actually Thailand. 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.040 Just cut power off to them today. 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.360 I mean, I can see that the strategy there, but 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:21.880 it's just going to end up hurting the people who 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:23.760 are in those compounds more of course it is. Yeah, 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:25.480 of course, those people who are in those compounds used 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.080 to be able to escape and go to places where 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.920 they could like get back to their lives, right, like 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:34.520 be re taken care of, and of course that's well 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.840 funded by USA, so they don't exist as of this week, 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.080 which is pretty brutal. But like, yeah, these people, right, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.440 these these migrant workers who come from all over the 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.200 world hoping for a chance that the things that capitalism 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.520 have promised them are the people who have to be 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.200 exploited so that people in wealthy countries can. 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:51.840 Have their treats. 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:56.400 Yeah, and those workers are the basis of monoglobal capitalism, right, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.280 Like you know, like those Chinese workers for example, like 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.200 it it is illegal for them to form an independent union. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:04.520 If you try to form an independent union, you will 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:08.320 go to prison so fast that like though we dust 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:09.680 clouds like. 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:12.119 Hey and like Wiley Coyote will take you to prison. 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.240 Yeah, Like even trying to get your union to like 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.000 do something like trying to have your own independent people 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.639 elected to your to that union, like canon will get 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.080 you arrested and like and even like short, Chinese labor 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.199 oppression like is pretty intense. But it's like you know 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.400 that we're also talking about countries like Columbia. It's like, well, yeah, okay, 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.280 so what happens to union organizers in Columbia's like they 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.600 get being shopped by paramilitaries with machine guns. Right, And 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.399 that's that's that's what the sort of spatial fix was, right, 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.120 was moving jobs to places where the ruling classes sort 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:42.200 of control was more firm and their ability to use 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.280 violence was higher. Yeah, And so this is what the 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:51.399 American imperial system sort of had been, right. It's based 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.080 on American capital flowing around the world. And this is 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.040 also like international capital too, right, Like we've literally been 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.320 talking about like Japanese corporations right doing like the same shit, right, 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.320 But you know, it's like international capital flowing around the world, 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.320 extracting resources and labor from other countries and accumulating it 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.119 in American corporations like that. That's what free trade is. 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:10.520 Yeah. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.919 And it's also you know, secondarily, right, it is a 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:17.640 debt system. It's based on forcing countries to like pay 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.960 back loans that were taken out by dictators. Gogurid de 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.600 Draber's debt last five thousand years, it's very good. But yeah, 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:29.400 it's based on like turning entire countries into just debt 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.359 servicing engines, where like all of the wealth that is 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.080 produced by entire nation is just going to like pay 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.480 debts to bank of America. Yeah, And you know, the 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.600 thing about this is that this is actually a very 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.640 very efficient model of empire. It's one of the most 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:45.880 sophisticated imperial systems that the world has ever seen. 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:46.080 Right. 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.480 It works extremely well and makes the US an unbelievable 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.520 amount of money. It protects global capitalism, and the people 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.000 currently running it don't want it to work like that. 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:57.359 Now do you know who else? It doesn't want the 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.840 current system to work like it does because they can 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:01.639 make more money. 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:03.080 I can guess it's. 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.359 The products and services for this point, excited to hit 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:07.240 which one we get? 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:09.720 You know, it could be it could be anything. I 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:11.560 really at this point, who knows? 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:25.119 We are back, So we've entered I guess what you 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.760 could call the phase of mask off imperialism. US imperialism 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:33.400 usually at least sort of like war human face. And 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.600 and it did it for good reason, right you know, 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.520 Ronald Reagan did not give a single ship about democracy 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.239 and human rights, right like like you know, and this 0:19:41.280 --> 0:19:43.080 is this has been true in the US for like 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.040 ages and ages and ages, right you know that, like 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.320 they prop up right wing military dirtatorship constantly. But the 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.879 thing is, democracy and human rights are things that like 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:54.000 people like and so you know, it was it's it's 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:57.119 a weapon that he and and his sort of brand 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.679 of conservatives, like anti communist conservatives like wielded it again communism, 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.400 and it was a very very powerful ideological weapon because 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.080 if if if your choice ceases to be between like 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.480 communism and capitalism, and your choice is now between like 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:10.720 do you want to live in a dictatorship, but do 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:12.000 you want to live in a democracy? Like that's a 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.640 very different question, and it's it's a very very important 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.280 question for sort of how how the Cold War was 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:23.000 won and how international power is wielded, right, because there's 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.360 there's always been an illusion that there's an international community 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.879 in that countries are like working together and and this 0:20:28.960 --> 0:20:32.280 is this is a very very powerful ideological thing, you know, 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.320 I mean, and this is something like you live through this, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.560 like God, it probably listen to you didn't leave to 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.000 this now, dear God. But like like the Iraq War, right, 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.080 the US didn't unilaterally invader Rock now I was called 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.480 the quote unquote Coalition of the Wilding and included like 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:50.080 like they dragged Australia in the war by threatening to 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.960 like destroy their like milk shipping contracts with the Iraqi government, Like, 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:55.720 so you. 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.320 Know, yeah, you had all kinds of people running around 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:00.159 in a rock for a while then, I guess, yeah, 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.280 obviously the United Kingdom played a big role in it, 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.240 like an outside troll, given being a relatively small country. 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:07.199 Yeah, and you know, and this, this, this is the 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.840 way that you do. You know, even just overtly straight 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.680 up imperialist stuff like it, like invading a rock, right, 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:17.000 was still done under the auspices of like multinational like coalitions. 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:17.320 Yep. 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.440 And the thing about different about Trump is Trump doesn't 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:22.879 give a fuck about any of that, right, absolutely not. 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.959 He has turned on Rob Ford, a man who is 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.160 like boldly answers the question what if Trump smoke crack 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.320 like that is Rob Ford, Like he's he's turning on 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:35.639 his allies, like people people like right wingers who should 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.159 be his allies in Canada, right, who are exactly the 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.080 kind of people who you would expect to do sort 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.959 of like right wing multilateral interventions in countries, right. Yeah, 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.520 and you know he is caused with with his like 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.320 threat to put tariffs on like, he's caused these people 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:51.040 to become anti American. And this is the same thing 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.880 with Mexico. Right, even the sort of like the nominally 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.400 center left governments in Mexico like have cooperated with American imperism. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:21:59.399 But Trump doesn't want to fucking do that anymore. He 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:03.639 wants to run everything just very purely and very openly 0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:05.200 as as an American empire. 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:08.520 Yeah, Like America's always bullied Mexican. Right when we talk 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.360 about the deployment of troops to the border. Biden absolutely 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.119 bullied Amlo into into bringing those troops to the border 0:22:14.560 --> 0:22:17.000 because they came before Donald Trump even came into office. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:20.200 But now Donald Trump's just doing it on true social yeah, 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.320 like it's it's it's kind of different. Or Panama fuck, Like, 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:27.120 you know, I was in Panama September of twenty four 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.439 and I went to the Canal Museum, and Panama like 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:32.880 is very proud of its history of independence. 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:33.080 Right. 0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.639 It's relatively short, yeah, and hard earned and paid for 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:39.560 in blood. But like, yeah, I traveled. I'm a US 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:41.120 City cinema traveling you. No one gave me any shit. 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:41.520 It was fine. 0:22:41.640 --> 0:22:43.959 Everyone's very nice to me. Now the burning American flags 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:45.160 in Panama City, like. 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.160 Yeah, yeah, because Croup is trying to take the Panama 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:50.040 canal back and before we get into like you know, 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:51.760 I mean, I guess we can get into hear some 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:53.280 of the stuff that he's doing. Right, he's pulled out 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.040 of the International Criminal Court and it's putting sanctions on it. 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:58.400 He has been trying to use the sanctions that he's 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.080 been threatened to apply to Canada. Who get Canada to 0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:05.680 join the US? Like he is trying to conquer Canada, Right, Yeah, 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.000 he's he's been trying to He's been trying to force 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:10.560 the government of Denmark to buy Greenland. 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:13.199 Sell Greenland, right, Like he wants to purchase greenland from there. 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:15.639 Yeah, he wants to buy Greenland. Yeah, there was. There 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:18.600 was the whole sort of showdown with Columbia over Columbia's 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:22.720 like being pissed off about the treatment of deportees to Columbia, 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:25.720 and he used sanctions. There there is again him saying 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:28.159 the US is going to take over Gaza. And this 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:31.879 is a very, very substantively different thing than than the 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:34.320 kind of American empire that we've had before. 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:34.640 Right. 0:23:34.920 --> 0:23:37.400 Yeah, the last time the US tried to take Canada 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:42.280 was eighteen twelve. Right, it's been like two hot hundred years. 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.920 This is how Britain returns to the world stage, right, 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:47.639 And the thing is, last time, the last time the 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:49.640 US tried to take Canada, they burned the capitol down, 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:51.919 so like you know, yeah, but like like this is 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.000 something that even even under like people like Bush, right, 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.440 who is like a Bush is like a very very 0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:00.520 avert American imperialist, right, yeah, Bush would ever try to 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:05.520 invade Canada. Like yeah, yeah, that's that's completely unhinged, right, 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:07.800 And this is this, this is just a very very 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.560 different kind of imperialism than than what existed before. And 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:13.720 I wanted to go into I think why this is 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.000 the case? Yeah, and I think the reason why this 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.239 is the case. Okay, So the reason that there's been 0:24:19.280 --> 0:24:21.040 such a defensive free trade is like people being like, 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:22.640 oh my god, if he puts teriffs in place, it'll 0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:24.400 raise prices, and like, yeah, that's true, right, it'll crash 0:24:24.440 --> 0:24:27.040 the global economy because the global economy has been turned 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.840 into a very very efficient engine of extracting profit from 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.359 countries and putting them in the hands of corporations. Right. 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.040 It's it's working exactly how Trump wants it to work. Now, 0:24:35.240 --> 0:24:37.760 if the US wants to rebuild a manufacturing economy, that 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:40.720 is technically possible, right, Reagan was able to do this. 0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:44.040 But what Reagan did instead of doing tariffs is that well, 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:45.400 I mean kind of you but like the main thing 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:48.760 that he did was this thing called the Plaza Accords. 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:51.359 And the Plaza Accords was this this thing in the 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:55.359 eighties where he forced Japan. Japan was the important moment, 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:57.840 like Japan, West Germany. I think there are a couple 0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:01.480 other countries like he forced them to increase the value 0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:04.560 of their currency relative to the dollar, because like, you know, 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:06.159 so if you have a currency and it's worth a 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:09.080 bunch of like another person's currency, so like you know, 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:11.360 you have like the dollar and it's worth like a million, 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:14.120 like yen or whatever the fuck, right, the currency that's 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:18.879 worthless has a more competitive manufacturing economy. And Reagan was 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:21.680 able to like restart the American like manufacturing economy for 0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:23.359 a while by doing this. But the problem is that 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:25.600 it blew up the entire world economy. And so to 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.320 save the world economy, Clinton rolled back the accords and it, 0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:31.119 you know, and that was the thing that actually finally 0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:34.800 sort of like a viscerated American manufacturing and the exchange 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:37.600 here was you know, and all of the stuff that 0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:39.280 I've been I've been talking about for the last few minutes. 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:42.400 So there's a very very good essay written right after 0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:44.520 two thousand and eight called What's good for Goldman Sachs 0:25:44.600 --> 0:25:47.879 is good for America by the economist Robert Brenner. And 0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:50.720 what the strategy became, and this is a strategy that 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:54.840 was originally pioneered by Japan that we took was instead 0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:57.280 of having like a manufacturing economy, like actually a production 0:25:57.320 --> 0:26:01.000 based economy, you have an economy based on the value 0:26:01.000 --> 0:26:01.640 of assets. 0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:01.920 Right. 0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:03.639 So assets are things that you own, right, this is 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:06.159 the stocks, bonds, like real estate, which is important for 0:26:06.160 --> 0:26:08.879 our purposes. And the goal is to make the value 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:09.960 of those things go up. 0:26:10.280 --> 0:26:10.440 Right. 0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:12.159 And so what you do is you speculate on you 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:14.680 you take out loans, You speculate on the prices of 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:19.040 stocks going up, the prices of houses going up right, 0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:21.680 and you know, you make it very easy to borrow money. Now, 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:25.080 obviously this produced a series of like staggering economic collapses, 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:28.040 including like the dot com collapse two thousand and eight 0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:29.920 with you. 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:30.919 Know remember that one. 0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:33.359 But the thing is in the way of the financial collapse. 0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:36.040 The US mostly figured out how to sort of stabilize 0:26:36.080 --> 0:26:39.480 the system. But the thing is, you know, they were 0:26:39.520 --> 0:26:43.119 sort of able to stabilize the system economically, right. What 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:46.080 they couldn't stabilize was the political sector, where if you 0:26:46.119 --> 0:26:47.879 look at the two people who are currently running the 0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:50.359 United States, it is Elon Musk, who is the human 0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:53.480 personification of the stock price goes up bubble economy, right, 0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:56.200 and the other one is Donald Trump, who is the 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:59.560 human manifestation of the real estate class, right, whose wealth 0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:02.639 like belie enormously. And the thing is right, but because 0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:04.800 Elon Musk is like a tech bubble go up guy, right, 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:08.040 those people don't think like the people who built like 0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:12.240 American financial capitalists, right, just like the people who designed 0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:14.480 the tratism, they don't think the same way Trump does. 0:27:14.520 --> 0:27:16.959 Trump is a fucking real estate guy, right, And this 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:18.720 is how he sees the world. Right. He thinks in 0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:21.320 terms of land and borders and territorial control. And he 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.960 thinks in terms of like what physical thing can I 0:27:24.000 --> 0:27:26.320 steal from someone in order to make money? Right, and 0:27:26.320 --> 0:27:27.800 that you know, this is why you're trying to steal 0:27:27.800 --> 0:27:31.280 the Panama Canal. And and he thinks this way instead 0:27:31.280 --> 0:27:33.680 of like things that are more abstract like debt servicing 0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:35.760 and like, you know, the sort of lines of power 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:36.680 in the coalition building. 0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:37.040 Right. 0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:40.199 He looks at a map of Greenland and goes, this 0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:42.440 looks really big. I want it and so and now 0:27:42.440 --> 0:27:44.240 he's going to try to use the American empire to 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:45.560 just seize this. 0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:49.680 Yeah. He sees things in terms of like raw power. 0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:55.120 It's a very uh undeveloped notion of like power, right, 0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:57.240 Like yeah, yeah, I was thinking the other day, like, 0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:00.960 whoever is in the same room as Joseph I must 0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:03.359 be having a fucking field day right now at the 0:28:03.400 --> 0:28:07.159 guy who he was there? He wrote books about soft power, right, 0:28:07.200 --> 0:28:09.359 the idea of the US power to persuade rather than 0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:12.359 power to kind of whether there rather than like hard power, 0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:14.320 which comes in tanks or tariffs. 0:28:14.359 --> 0:28:17.719 I guess, Joseph and I is no longer relevant. I 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:18.119 get that. 0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:21.760 Yes, yes, no, we're we're back. We're back in pure hardpower. 0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:24.159 And something I think is renal very alarming that I 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:26.719 want to close on is the extent to which, like 0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.320 the US media is just sort of just once do 0:28:29.320 --> 0:28:32.000 you propaganda for it? Yeah, I'm gonna I'm going to 0:28:32.119 --> 0:28:35.720 read a quote from a CNN arc again this is CNN. Quote. 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.600 The subject heading is the US has been expanding for 0:28:38.640 --> 0:28:41.800 its entire history. This is an article, oh, the title 0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:44.280 of which is Trump is Trump wants to redraw the 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:47.440 map of the Western hemisphere for fun's. 0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:51.480 Sake, like twenty twenty five Monroe doctrine posting on CNN literal. 0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:54.320 Literally literally, Okay, okay, you are so far ahead of 0:28:54.680 --> 0:28:57.760 this thing, because the next I'm going to read the 0:28:58.000 --> 0:28:58.880 one I was going to read. 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:02.440 First, Uplift civilizing cris you and I what's an next paragrad. 0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:05.400 The next section heading is and I quote what is 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:08.680 Trump's doctrine and explains the Monroe doctor for. 0:29:08.760 --> 0:29:12.600 Fox sake, this is I cannot explain how like I 0:29:12.720 --> 0:29:16.680 have taught this as a thing in history classes for 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:19.520 more than a decade from the perspective of like that 0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:23.160 was fucked up and shameful, and even the conservative students like, yeah, 0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:26.200 hard agree, look at these racists as fuck cartoons about 0:29:26.240 --> 0:29:29.400 Filipino people that were used in here to justify this, 0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:32.800 and now we are back like it is, and like, yeah, 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:37.000 CNN is just out there like fucking cranking the manufacturing consent. 0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:40.000 That's not even the worst part about it, Like I 0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:41.200 want to read the session. So one of the other 0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:43.320 section headings is the US has been expanding for its 0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:46.920 entire history sick quote expansion. Expansion is built into the 0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:51.400 American DNA's has retired Ambassador Gordon Gray, now a professor 0:29:51.440 --> 0:29:54.400 of practice at George Washington University and former Foreign Service 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:55.160 career officer. 0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:58.600 Okay, yeah, like an angel sweeping across the planes, fucking 0:29:58.640 --> 0:29:59.720 manifest destinies. 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:02.120 Yeah, it's we're you know, and this is this is 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.040 this coming all sort of coming into like the way 0:30:04.040 --> 0:30:06.720 that Trump thinks about which Trump thinks about the US, 0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:09.480 like like an eighteenth century land empire, Yeah right, Yeah, 0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:13.920 eighteenth century land empires, you know, got money by conquering 0:30:13.960 --> 0:30:17.520 people and like extracting tribute from them directly. And then 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:20.440 also you know they were mercancilest empires, right, so they 0:30:20.520 --> 0:30:22.080 they got they got a bunch of their money. And 0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:23.440 this is the thing that Trump explicitly talks about. It 0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:25.000 is like he wants he thinks he can raise revenue 0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:26.680 from like terrosts, which like, no, he can't, but like 0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:28.680 what he can do is use the threat of tariffs 0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:31.040 to like force countries to do whatever the fuck he 0:30:31.080 --> 0:30:32.960 wants and this is the kind of imperialism that we're 0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:36.360 in now. It is a definite, substantive break from what 0:30:36.360 --> 0:30:39.239 we've seen in the US for a century, more than 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:41.720 a century. Yeah, and I think I think it's important 0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:44.880 for people to understand exactly how this functions. Yeah, and yeah, 0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:45.720 it's sick. 0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:48.120 We're going into the new opium wars. It's going to 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:52.000 be so fun. Yeah, it's great. 0:30:52.360 --> 0:30:54.520 Well, this is this spiniacul happened here. Do not get 0:30:54.600 --> 0:30:58.360 kettles on bridges, go out into the worlds and make trouble. 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:01.800 And people want to read more about the early like 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:05.880 globalizing that the previous year of neoliberal globalization, Like Naomi 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:08.800 Klein has some good stuff, and I think Joe Stiglitz 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:09.520 does as well. 0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:14.560 We can Yeah, yeah, I also recommend David Graber's direct 0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:18.360 action in Ethnography, which is him writing about the original 0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:21.200 like anti like ult globalization protests and his like time 0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:24.000 in them. So you know, if you need direct action ideas, 0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:26.920 they did some fun stuff. Yeah, dressing guys up like 0:31:26.960 --> 0:31:30.080 marshmallows and police batons would bounce off the great. 0:31:30.520 --> 0:31:32.600 Yeah, bring back clown block. That'll get us through it. 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:59.560 Yeah. 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:04.960 The government of two Weeks ago no longer exists. We 0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:08.440 are now in a fundamentally different country. Under the authority 0:32:08.520 --> 0:32:11.800 President Trump. Elon Musk is leading a de facto cyber 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:15.800 coup of the United States using the intentionally vague and 0:32:15.920 --> 0:32:20.840 unaccountable department of a government efficiency, Musk is seizing control 0:32:20.880 --> 0:32:25.000 of the United States critical digital infrastructure, literally rewriting the 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:28.840 code that runs our country and culling the federal workforce. 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:34.160 Using the justification of removing government bureaucracy, Musk and the 0:32:34.160 --> 0:32:38.760 Trump administration have installed their own batch of bureaucratic tech oligarchs, 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:42.640 made up of former Tesla and SpaceX interns and engineers, 0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:50.240 teal fellowship researchers, pallenteer employees, eugenics enthusiasts, and literal nick fuentes, 0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:54.120 pilled gropers. Career employees have been locked out of their 0:32:54.160 --> 0:32:58.600 respective agencies, both digitally and physically, as the DOGE team 0:32:58.720 --> 0:33:03.800 ransacks various departments and accesses wide swaths of sensitive government data. 0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:07.760 Agency officials who have tried to resist Musk's seizure of 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:11.480 classified materials have been fired, and more federal employees have 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:15.800 been put on leave, including the entirety of USAID. This 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:20.200 effectively amounts to Musk abolishing the whole department, all without 0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:24.600 congressional authorization or oversight, not even in executive order from 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:28.959 Trump that extends presidential authority on a whim. The unelected 0:33:29.000 --> 0:33:31.959 Elon Musk decided to carry out the closure of an 0:33:32.080 --> 0:33:36.800 entire government agency, and he is far from finished. Doge 0:33:36.840 --> 0:33:40.680 has hijacked the Treasury to withhold authorized payments to multiple agencies, 0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:44.479 resulting in an ongoing battle of lawsuits and court orders. 0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:49.200 This is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, and 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.040 this episode is an audio companion to an article I 0:33:52.120 --> 0:33:56.240 published on the shatter Zone substack linked below. In the description. 0:33:56.760 --> 0:34:01.000 You can follow along online at Shatterzone dots substack dot 0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:04.720 com and click the hyperlinks for more information and sources. 0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:10.239 Elon Musk has personally directed the General Services Administration to 0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:15.600 terminate leases on quote unquote mostly empty federal buildings. The GSA, 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:19.080 essentially the landlord of the federal government, was one of 0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:22.520 the first agencies to receive Musks quote unquote fork in 0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:26.480 the road deferred resignation letter offering to buy out the 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:30.840 entire workforce. The legality of the letter is still uncertain, 0:34:30.960 --> 0:34:35.440 as it promises to pay out currently unappropriated funds. IRS 0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:38.319 workers who accepted the resignation offer have already been asked 0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:43.200 to return to work until May. The newly appointed GSA Commissioner, 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:47.560 Michael Peters, a private equity executive that specializes in downsizing 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:51.640 corporate real estate, has decided that quote non DoD federal 0:34:51.680 --> 0:34:55.880 building space should be reduced fifty percent quote, According to 0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:59.799 a GSA employee who requested to remain anonymous, on top 0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:03.360 of planning to cut the entire federal portfolio by half, 0:35:03.960 --> 0:35:07.200 DOGE is seeking to cut GSA's own budget by as 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:11.400 much as fifty percent, with talk of consolidating GSA offices 0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:15.200 into a few major cities using a quote unquote hub model. 0:35:16.120 --> 0:35:19.120 Wired reports that DOGE staff may be trying to use 0:35:19.360 --> 0:35:24.640 White House IT credentials to access GSA computers remotely. An 0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:28.080 anonymous GSA employee claims that few people at the agency 0:35:28.160 --> 0:35:32.040 have elected to take up the voluntary paid resignation offer, 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:36.040 with those who have mostly being of retirement age. High 0:35:36.160 --> 0:35:40.360 leveled Trump appointees used quote unquote scare tactics in agency 0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:44.640 emails pressuring career employees to accept the deferred resignation offer, 0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:48.319 warning that cost cutting measures will eventually lead to a 0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:52.480 further reduction in force. Employees are concerned that a reduced 0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:56.560 federal workforce would result in federal buildings losing their operations 0:35:56.560 --> 0:36:01.080 and maintenance contracts, with disastrous consequences for the functionality of 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:05.280 government buildings. Quote the brain drain is going to cripple 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:08.440 our ability to maintain the buildings even more than it 0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:13.880 already was. We aren't overstaffed unquote for a GSA employee, 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:18.399 they continued, quote, I think this process is already too 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:21.880 far along to stop. I'm hoping we just need to 0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:25.880 get to the mid terms unquote. What is happening across 0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:29.359 the federal government right now is unprecedented. But this is 0:36:29.400 --> 0:36:31.680 not Germany in the nineteen thirties. It's not the fall 0:36:31.719 --> 0:36:34.759 of the Soviet Union. We grasp at analogies to help 0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:39.840 contextualize current events that escape understanding. There are similarities, but 0:36:40.000 --> 0:36:44.920 what's happening is new, very American, very twenty first century. 0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:49.160 Think of the growth of the Internet, social media tech 0:36:49.239 --> 0:36:53.480 startups in fifty years. What's happening right now could be 0:36:53.520 --> 0:36:56.239 talked about in the vein of what happened to the 0:36:56.320 --> 0:37:00.680 United States in the mid twenty twenties. Now, rhetoric of 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:04.760 cutting red tape and breaking federal bureaucracy has been common 0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:08.960 political clap trap for decades, and previous efforts have been 0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:12.879 largely all bark and no bite. But now there's been 0:37:12.960 --> 0:37:18.359 a huge chomp. So why now? What happened? Trump has 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:22.240 blamed entrenched federal bureaucracy or the quote unquote deep state, 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:27.759 for preventing him from enacting sweeping change during his first term. 0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:30.719 The obstacles Trump encountered didn't just come from Congress and 0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:34.080 the courts, but rank and file government workers who run 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:38.560 day to day operations. Last month, the far right America 0:37:38.600 --> 0:37:42.960 First Policy Institute published a report titled Tales from the Swamp, 0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:48.040 How federal bureaucrats resisted President Trump. The author, James Shrek, 0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:53.040 a former Heritage fellow, credits quote unquote hostile career employees 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:58.960 for quote unquote refusing to implement policies. Shrek says, quote 0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:05.120 many employees refused or defied directives withheld information, slow walked 0:38:05.160 --> 0:38:09.960 projects that they opposed, performed unacceptably, and used strategic leaking 0:38:10.040 --> 0:38:14.759 to undermine the president's agenda unquote. Trump himself realized this 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:17.520 late into his first term and sought to remedy the 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:21.440 situation by revoking civil protections for tens of thousands of 0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:25.960 federal career employees, reclassifying them as atwill employees under an 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:29.799 executive order called Schedule F. This allowed Trump to treat 0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:34.400 large swaths of government employees as political appointments. In his 0:38:34.560 --> 0:38:38.360 article for the America First Policy Institute, Shrek refers to 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:42.560 career removal protections as a quote modern invention that protects 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:48.000 entrenched bureaucracy unquote. Though Biden repealed Schedule F, Trump effectively 0:38:48.040 --> 0:38:50.680 reinstated the order on the first day of his second term. 0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:54.760 Trump promised to restore his authority to quote remove rogue 0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:58.880 bureaucrats back in early twenty twenty three under his Agenda 0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:03.200 forty seven plan, vowing to quote wield that power very 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:08.240 aggressively unquote. When Trump first ran on Drain the Swamp 0:39:08.320 --> 0:39:12.440 in twenty fifteen, he was referring to corporate lobbyists special 0:39:12.480 --> 0:39:16.439 interests in Washington corruption, but now the term is used 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:21.880 to deride the so called administrative state, federal agencies, regulatory boards, 0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:25.799 and bureaucratic career employees that maintain the basic functionality of 0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:29.880 our government. Both Schedule F and Doge are part of 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:33.359 a too pronged assault on the administrative state, all in 0:39:33.440 --> 0:39:39.440 service of consolidating than amplifying executive power. Trump has fully 0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:43.560 embraced the unitary executive theory proposed by the likes of 0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:47.000 Russell Vaught, Project twenty twenty five co author and the 0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:50.960 newly confirmed director of the White House Office of Management 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:54.800 and Budget. Although it's understood that Congress has quote unquote 0:39:54.960 --> 0:39:59.080 power of the purse, under unitary executive theory, Trump now 0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:02.600 believes that funding appropriated by Congress does not need to 0:40:02.640 --> 0:40:06.480 be spent. Rather, the executive branch controls the flow of 0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:10.680 federal spending and Congress merely sets a ceiling on spending 0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:14.480 that the executive must not exceed. Under this interpretation of 0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:18.360 the Constitution, the president has sole and complete control of 0:40:18.360 --> 0:40:21.880 the executive Branch, including all of its agencies and departments. 0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:25.520 But people in Trump's circle like JD. Vance and Elon 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:29.360 Musk could be pushing Trump to go even further to 0:40:29.400 --> 0:40:33.240 where the president considers both the judicial and legislative branches 0:40:33.480 --> 0:40:38.399 as purely ceremonial and advisory. In the words of New 0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:43.279 Right philosopher Curtis Jarvin, and arguably we are already well 0:40:43.320 --> 0:40:47.040 on our way to that point. This centralized executive power 0:40:47.080 --> 0:40:49.799 allows the executive branch to achieve goals I would have 0:40:49.960 --> 0:40:53.839 previously considered to be quite lofty. And I'll outlined two 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.800 of those examples, pulling from the aspirations of the modern 0:40:56.840 --> 0:41:11.360 conservative movement. After this ad break, welcome back to it 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:14.360 could happen here, and get ready to say bye bye 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:18.960 to the FBI. Though the right has typically been thought 0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:21.160 to be firmly in the back of the blue camp, 0:41:21.760 --> 0:41:25.319 this isn't always the case, especially on the more extreme end. 0:41:25.920 --> 0:41:28.560 The far right militia movement has long clashed with federal 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:31.960 law enforcement agencies like the FBI and ATF. In the 0:41:32.000 --> 0:41:35.920 aftermath of January sixth, many Mega supporters found themselves at 0:41:35.920 --> 0:41:40.120 odds with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Republican politicians began 0:41:40.160 --> 0:41:43.719 to feed into right wing uproar surrounding the FBI, as 0:41:43.760 --> 0:41:47.920 Trump himself became a target for investigations after the mar 0:41:48.040 --> 0:41:51.080 Lago raid. In August of twenty twenty two, Marjorie Taylor 0:41:51.120 --> 0:41:57.280 Green tweeted defund the FBI. Arizona Representative Paul Gosar joined 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:01.480 in attacks on the bureau, hosting weight to destroy the FBI, 0:42:02.040 --> 0:42:06.360 we must save America. That same month, right wing columnist 0:42:06.400 --> 0:42:10.160 and podcaster Liz Wheeler published in op ed titled Abolish 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:14.000 the FBI, which called to quote farm out the vital 0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:17.960 functions of the FBI and raise the rest unquote. The 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:22.280 new right publication Compact Magazine featured a slightly better written 0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:27.080 article by the same title, Abolish the FBI at CPAC. 0:42:27.160 --> 0:42:30.120 In March of twenty twenty three, Matt Gates, noted pedophile 0:42:30.480 --> 0:42:34.680 advocated to get rid of the FBI among other federal agencies. 0:42:34.840 --> 0:42:37.440 Either get this government back on our side, or we 0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:42.200 defund and get rid of Abolish the FBI. 0:42:41.880 --> 0:42:48.040 CDC, atf DJ, every last one of them if they 0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:49.319 do not come to heal. 0:42:50.000 --> 0:42:52.680 In April of twenty twenty three, Trump joined in in 0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:57.120 calls to defund the FBI after being charged with thirty 0:42:57.160 --> 0:43:00.680 four felon accounts of falsepying business records. Next month, to 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:04.880 former FBI employees testified in a congressional hearing accusing the 0:43:04.880 --> 0:43:09.360 Bureau of weaponization against conservatives in regards to the January 0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:13.839 sixth investigations. The same two former FBI employees who had 0:43:13.840 --> 0:43:17.840 their security clearance revoked after espousing j six conspiracy theories. 0:43:18.320 --> 0:43:22.560 Later called to quote abolish the FBI at a Heritage 0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:26.920 Foundation symposium on the quote weaponization of the US government 0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:29.640 in April of twenty twenty four. 0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:34.799 You're given that magic wand that ability to be Jim Jordan, what. 0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:35.239 Would you do? 0:43:35.880 --> 0:43:37.960 I think you have to abolish the FBI. That's where 0:43:38.000 --> 0:43:38.760 I'm at at this point. 0:43:39.800 --> 0:43:44.200 What now, some people are going to say, Okay, yeah, 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:46.319 we're gonna have to do you just abolish a What 0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:46.719 would to you? 0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:49.040 Is there a replacement? I mean, you can't just not 0:43:49.200 --> 0:43:51.080 have federal law enforcement, right. 0:43:51.960 --> 0:43:53.920 I think in large part, you could just not have 0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:54.720 federal lawforce. 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:59.440 During a live episode of Donald Trump Junior's podcast on 0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:02.680 July eight eight, twenty twenty four, he called to abolish 0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:06.560 several federal agencies, starting with the FBI as well as 0:44:06.600 --> 0:44:08.520 the CIA and the IRS. 0:44:08.800 --> 0:44:14.560 Abolished the DEA. You know, I imagine of all the 0:44:14.560 --> 0:44:16.359 places to abolish, and I don't know if that's the 0:44:16.400 --> 0:44:19.680 best one. I'd start with the FBI, I'd start with 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:23.399 the CIA, I'd start with the IRS. There's a lot 0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:26.320 of you know, the DA. Now maybe I know agent 0:44:26.440 --> 0:44:28.560 level guys. So if they're going after narcos and stuff 0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:30.680 like that. Perhaps a little bit more forgiving. They don't 0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:32.839 seem to be setting up or in trapping people like 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:33.480 the FBI. 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:37.520 The Trump administration has already begun the process to dismantle 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:41.319 large swaths of the FBI before cash Battel has even 0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:45.040 been confirmed by the Senate. Eight top FBI officials have 0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.680 been fired or forced resign by order of Acting Deputy 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:53.400 Attorney General Emil Bove, despite resistance from Acting FBI Director 0:44:53.480 --> 0:44:58.200 Brian Driscoll. A questionnaire was distributed to FBI supervisors requesting 0:44:58.239 --> 0:45:01.680 agents provide information to their own involvement in the January 0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:05.080 sixth investigations. This was believed to be used for the 0:45:05.200 --> 0:45:09.440 targeted removal of agency personnel. Last week, the FBI handed 0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:13.319 over a list containing the information of five thousand employees 0:45:13.400 --> 0:45:17.480 and agents who worked on the January sixth investigations. FBI 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:21.799 leadership initially chose to withhold employee names. In response, Bove 0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:26.759 accused the FBI leadership of insubordination. This was ultimately a 0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:30.439 fruitless effort, as data seized by Elon Musk's DOGE team 0:45:30.760 --> 0:45:35.479 could easily match employee IDs to names. Trump has since 0:45:35.520 --> 0:45:38.560 agreed to not publicly release the names of agents until 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:42.680 at least late March as lawsuits continue, and is required 0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:45.880 to give two days notice if the administration chooses to 0:45:45.880 --> 0:45:50.319 publicly disclosed names. But individual agents are still worried. An 0:45:50.320 --> 0:45:53.400 anonymous letter from an FBI agent to Warren's quote. Currently, 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:55.880 there is an effort to cull a significant number of 0:45:55.960 --> 0:46:00.520 career special agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation unquote. 0:46:00.560 --> 0:46:03.239 Around one third of FBI agents were told they would 0:46:03.239 --> 0:46:05.920 be placed on leave. According to a government source who 0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:09.680 spoke on the condition of anonymity, FBI employees have lost 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:13.480 access to systems, only to later regain access, while others 0:46:13.520 --> 0:46:16.600 were told to wait to find out about their employee status. 0:46:17.480 --> 0:46:20.840 Agents are now trying to negotiate back into their jobs, 0:46:21.160 --> 0:46:24.359 with sources saying FBI employees may be able to stay 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:27.600 on if they can prove their loyalty to Trump and 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:31.480 disown the January sixth prosecutions. I write all of this 0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:35.600 not in defense of the FBI, but to demonstrate how 0:46:35.680 --> 0:46:38.400 far Trump is willing to go to expand his executive 0:46:38.480 --> 0:46:42.239 power and transfer law enforcement duties to agencies seen as 0:46:42.400 --> 0:46:45.680 more loyal to the president. Though I doubt the FBI 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:49.080 will be completely abolished in the next few years. The 0:46:49.160 --> 0:46:53.480 agency could become unrecognizable, a shell of its former self, 0:46:53.800 --> 0:46:58.000 with hardline Trump loyalists replacing the existing and already largely 0:46:58.040 --> 0:47:03.440 conservative workforce. Alternative agencies perceived as being more loyal to Trump, 0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:08.200 like Homeland security investigations, could start picking up the FBI slack. 0:47:08.880 --> 0:47:11.520 According to a senior government source, on day two of 0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:16.520 Trump's second term, HSI was instructed to reopen investigations into 0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:21.160 the twenty twenty George Floyd protests to quote identify protesters 0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:27.080 BLM rioters likely did to us after January sixth, unquote. 0:47:27.120 --> 0:47:30.680 For another once considered far fetched goal of the conservative 0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:34.520 movement that now seems oddly within grasp, let's talk about 0:47:34.640 --> 0:47:38.640 the Department of Education. Conservatives have advocated for dismantling the 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.840 Department of Education ever since Jimmy Carter signed its modern 0:47:41.840 --> 0:47:46.120 incarnation into law in nineteen seventy nine. Most notably, Ronald 0:47:46.160 --> 0:47:49.320 Reagan tried and failed to abolish the department in nineteen 0:47:49.360 --> 0:47:54.719 eighty one, but Reagan's Commission ironically strengthened support for the department. 0:47:55.440 --> 0:47:58.680 Once Reagan ran into roadblocks, he instead sought to limit 0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:03.040 the Department's power end influence. Since then, calls to abolish 0:48:03.120 --> 0:48:05.680 the Department of Education have been a recurring Republican talking 0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:09.040 point among certain think tanks and politicians, but they have 0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:13.000 struggled to land sizeable blows against the department. Trump previously 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:15.760 fiddled around with merging the Departments of Education and Labor 0:48:15.880 --> 0:48:19.839 during his first term, but that plan went nowhere. In 0:48:19.840 --> 0:48:22.719 Trump's own Agenda forty seven plan, released in twenty twenty three, 0:48:23.040 --> 0:48:26.000 he expressed his goal of quote closing up the Department 0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:29.960 of Education in Washington, d c. Later, at the National 0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:35.319 Religious Broadcasters twenty twenty four Christian Media Convention in February 0:48:35.360 --> 0:48:39.200 of twenty twenty four, Donald Trump repeated this promise, quote, 0:48:39.560 --> 0:48:42.000 I will close the Federal Department of Education, and we 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:44.800 will move everything back to the states where it belongs, 0:48:45.000 --> 0:48:50.040 where they can individualize education unquote. Project twenty twenty five 0:48:50.120 --> 0:48:53.240 outlined how to achieve the effective dismantling of the department 0:48:53.560 --> 0:48:57.000 by transferring funding and duties to other departments such as 0:48:57.040 --> 0:49:00.800 Health and Human Services and the DOJ. Opposition to the 0:49:00.840 --> 0:49:04.000 Department of Education was a frequent topic at the twenty 0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:08.960 twenty four Republican National Convention in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Robert Sophie 0:49:08.960 --> 0:49:12.400 and I attended multiple panels and events taking aim at 0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:15.359 the department, hosted by groups like Moms for Liberty and 0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:18.840 the Heritage Foundation. On the first day of the convention, 0:49:19.280 --> 0:49:23.080 the party ratified their official twenty twenty four RNC platform, 0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:26.760 which called to quote close the Department of Education in Washington, 0:49:26.840 --> 0:49:28.759 d C. And send it back to the States where 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:32.080 it belongs, and let the states run our educational system 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:35.400 as it should be run unquote. And now the Department 0:49:35.440 --> 0:49:38.280 seems to be next on the Trump doge chopping block. 0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:42.080 The administration is drafting a sweeping executive order. While Trump 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:45.839 says he wants his education nominee Linda McMahon to quote 0:49:45.880 --> 0:49:49.680 unquote put herself out of a job. The planned executive 0:49:49.760 --> 0:49:52.200 order would not just direct the Secretary of Education to 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:56.640 begin dismantling the department, but also ask Congress for assistance 0:49:56.800 --> 0:50:01.080 in formally abolishing the agency. It's unlikely that Trump would 0:50:01.080 --> 0:50:03.719 get the sixty Senate votes needed to pass the quote 0:50:03.760 --> 0:50:08.080 unquote necessary legislation, but even if they can't manage to 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:11.719 technically abolish the department, he could still try to rip it, 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:15.839 scuts out, slash spending and forcibly resign or fire employees, 0:50:16.440 --> 0:50:19.960 basically make the department simply non functioning, much like what 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:24.319 Doge did to USAID. Upwards of sixteen DOGE staffers are 0:50:24.360 --> 0:50:28.840 currently listed in the Education Department Directory. Federal education employees 0:50:28.880 --> 0:50:32.240 have already received the Fork in the Road resignation buyout offer, 0:50:32.680 --> 0:50:36.400 while others have been fired for alleged links to DEI. 0:50:37.680 --> 0:50:41.040 Without someone like Elon Musk and Trump's administration, there was 0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:44.040 no clear path towards implementing some of the more lofty 0:50:44.080 --> 0:50:47.440 plans proposed by conservative thought leaders, whether they be Trump's 0:50:47.440 --> 0:50:51.120 own Agenda forty seven, the Heritage Foundation's Project twenty twenty five, 0:50:51.600 --> 0:50:55.880 or Curtis Jarvin's dream of a national CEO king. Only 0:50:56.080 --> 0:51:01.880 Elon Musk could do this. You need someone with his influence, connections, money, experience, 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:06.120 and knowledge of fringe neo reactionary Silicon Valley political theory 0:51:06.480 --> 0:51:10.560 to propose and carry out something like Doge. So how 0:51:10.560 --> 0:51:14.160 did Musk get here? Though it's common knowledge that Musk 0:51:14.160 --> 0:51:17.360 has drifted pretty severely right word the past five years 0:51:18.080 --> 0:51:20.880 leading into the twenty twenty four presidential campaign, he was 0:51:20.920 --> 0:51:24.239 not an out and proud Trump supporter as recently as 0:51:24.239 --> 0:51:27.520 twenty twenty two, Musk deemed Trump too old to serve 0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:30.080 as president, again, tweeting that it was time for Trump 0:51:30.160 --> 0:51:32.840 to quote hang up his hat and sail into the 0:51:32.880 --> 0:51:37.200 sunset unquote. Initially, Musk threw his support behind the doomed 0:51:37.239 --> 0:51:41.160 presidential bid of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, but as it 0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:44.319 became clear Trump would be the Republican nominee, Musk fell 0:51:44.360 --> 0:51:48.360 in behind his new party line, but his implicit support 0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:51.279 of Trump was kept on the down low. The two 0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:53.760 met in Florida in March of twenty twenty four among 0:51:53.840 --> 0:51:58.240 other wealthy Republican donors, as Trump was lobbying for campaign funding. 0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:00.960 The New York Times reported that Musk did not want 0:52:00.960 --> 0:52:03.960 to publicly endorse Trump as of early twenty twenty four, 0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:07.360 telling friends the most he would do was an anti 0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:11.560 Biden endorsement. Instead of public support, Musk would create his 0:52:11.640 --> 0:52:15.040 own super pac to secretly help get Trump elected, timing 0:52:15.080 --> 0:52:18.200 payments so his fiscal backing of Trump's campaign could only 0:52:18.200 --> 0:52:22.080 go public after the election. But all that changed on 0:52:22.200 --> 0:52:26.919 July thirteenth, after Trump's brush with death in Butler, Pennsylvania, 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:31.280 Musk seemingly took Trump's call of fight Fight, Fight to heart, 0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:35.040 tweeting less than an hour later, quote I fully endorse 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:38.759 President Trump and hope for his rapid recovery unquote. This 0:52:38.840 --> 0:52:43.120 opened more frequent communication between Musk and Trump. Later that weekend, 0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:47.040 both Musk and Peter Teel called Trump to recommend J. D. 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:52.160 Vance as vice president. Next week was the Republican National Convention, 0:52:52.600 --> 0:52:56.359 during which Elon Musk was frequently name dropped, both by 0:52:56.400 --> 0:53:00.839 official speakers and regular attendees, talked about as almost some 0:53:00.960 --> 0:53:05.160 kind of mythic right wing superhero. On the final day 0:53:05.160 --> 0:53:08.239 of the convention, rumors circulated that Musk himself would make 0:53:08.280 --> 0:53:12.160 a surprise appearance on stage, Though said rumors did not 0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:16.840 come to fruition. Musk's specter haunted the entirety of the RNC. 0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:22.239 Come August, Musk just finished overhauling leadership at his America 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:26.200 Super Pack and was rigorously pushing pro Trump messaging on 0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:30.920 X the Everything app. On August twelfth, Musk hosted Trump 0:53:30.960 --> 0:53:33.719 in a two hour live streamed phone call dubbed in 0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:38.800 x Space. This conversation marked the first time Trump casually 0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:42.839 spoke at length about the assassination attempt. The pair also 0:53:42.880 --> 0:53:47.160 discussed quote unquote migrant crime and the need to eliminate 0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:52.080 federal bureaucracy. Trump gave a rare compliment to Musk, calling 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:55.960 him the greatest cutter, followed up by saying, quote, I 0:53:56.120 --> 0:53:59.040 need an Elon Musk. I need someone that has a 0:53:59.040 --> 0:54:02.239 lot of strength and courage and smarts. I want to 0:54:02.280 --> 0:54:05.080 close up the Department of Education, move education back to 0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:09.240 the States unquote. News outlets were more interested in reporting 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:13.000 on the stream's technical glitches rather than Musk's idea for 0:54:13.160 --> 0:54:18.200 a government efficiency commission, to which Trump responded very positively. 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:22.080 Next month, on September fourth, Trump announced that, at the 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:26.200 suggestion of Elon Musk, if elected, he would quote create 0:54:26.320 --> 0:54:30.400 a government Efficiency Commission tasked with conducting a complete financial 0:54:30.440 --> 0:54:33.839 and performance audit of the entire federal government and making 0:54:34.000 --> 0:54:38.960 recommendations for drastic reforms unquote. Musk himself agreed to be 0:54:39.000 --> 0:54:42.840 appointed head of the commission, aiming to cut trillions of dollars. 0:54:43.440 --> 0:54:47.080 This announcement was not taken very seriously. The New York 0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:51.040 Times called commissions such as this quote a favorite Washington 0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:55.440 solution for delaying dealing with hard problems unquote, and The 0:54:55.480 --> 0:54:59.319 Times later reported that the commission quote can issue recommendations 0:54:59.360 --> 0:55:02.600 around federal five funding and regulations, but will be powerless 0:55:02.640 --> 0:55:05.640 to enact them without executive actions by mister Trump or 0:55:06.000 --> 0:55:10.440 funding approval by Congress, even though I can admit that 0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:14.480 both myself and some of my coworkers underestimated Doge's ability 0:55:14.719 --> 0:55:19.040 to physically carry out Musk's suggestions with no Congressional oversight 0:55:19.239 --> 0:55:22.919 or authority. As the election ramped up, musk super Pac 0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:27.040 mobilized thousands of canvassers across key swing states and collected 0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:31.239 data to target both enthusiastic and unlikely voters. Throughout twenty 0:55:31.280 --> 0:55:35.080 twenty four, Musk spent over two hundred and ninety million 0:55:35.160 --> 0:55:39.720 dollars in contributions in support of the Mega campaign, mostly 0:55:39.840 --> 0:55:43.080 via his own super pack. On October fifth, Musk made 0:55:43.080 --> 0:55:46.440 his first appearance at an official campaign event, joining Trump 0:55:46.520 --> 0:55:50.680 for his return to Butler, Pennsylvania. Musk continued to appear 0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:53.080 at Trump rallies in the month leading up to the election. 0:55:53.719 --> 0:55:57.440 By election day, Musk was firmly in Trump's inner circle, 0:55:57.840 --> 0:56:00.799 spending Election night and most of the next week with 0:56:00.920 --> 0:56:04.960 President Elect Trump atmar A Lago. After this adbreak, we 0:56:05.000 --> 0:56:07.879 will return to discuss how Elon Musk is now trying 0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:21.520 to become the CEO of the United States of America. Okay, 0:56:21.560 --> 0:56:24.960 we are back, and now a few months after the election, 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:28.799 Elon Musk is doing to the United States exactly what 0:56:28.960 --> 0:56:32.040 he did to Twitter. By the end, it still might 0:56:32.080 --> 0:56:35.680 technically function on some level, just worse in every way, 0:56:36.160 --> 0:56:40.160 prone to glitches, and full of Nazis. The previous version 0:56:40.280 --> 0:56:43.560 was already bad and harmful, but the new one somehow 0:56:43.600 --> 0:56:46.800 sucks even more and no longer has the aspects that 0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:51.320 made it semi worthwhile. The Fork in the Road deferred 0:56:51.360 --> 0:56:55.120 resignation letters sent to government employees used the exact same 0:56:55.200 --> 0:56:59.000 title as a similar email sent to Twitter employees after 0:56:59.120 --> 0:57:02.800 Musk bought the com company. The Doge team has installed 0:57:02.880 --> 0:57:05.960 sofa beds on the fifth floor of the headquarters of 0:57:06.000 --> 0:57:09.480 the Office of Personnel Management to enable working around the clock, 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:14.839 mirroring Musk's previous actions. During his takeover of Twitter, Musk 0:57:14.880 --> 0:57:17.080 has brought on some of the same exact people who 0:57:17.120 --> 0:57:19.840 helped him take over Twitter, all of whom are now 0:57:20.200 --> 0:57:24.840 special government employees with odd job titles but immense power. 0:57:25.680 --> 0:57:28.600 It was reported and Wired that a Musk stooge told 0:57:28.760 --> 0:57:32.760 General Services Administration workers that the agency will now pursue 0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:37.920 quote an AI first strategy unquote, and that the GSA 0:57:38.240 --> 0:57:43.680 should operate like a quote unquote startup software company. Musk 0:57:43.760 --> 0:57:47.240 has ordered the General Services Administration to terminate leases for 0:57:47.400 --> 0:57:51.800 all roughly seven thousand and five hundred federal offices, amidst 0:57:51.840 --> 0:57:55.560 a national call to return to in person work. This 0:57:55.720 --> 0:57:59.440 again is a classic Musk move, taken from his takeover 0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:02.600 of Twitter, in which to cut costs, he refused to 0:58:02.640 --> 0:58:06.160 pay rent for Twitter offices in London, New York City, 0:58:06.200 --> 0:58:09.479 and San Francisco while the buildings were still in use. 0:58:10.400 --> 0:58:14.200 A current GSA employee was quoted and wired as saying, quote, 0:58:14.480 --> 0:58:16.880 they are acting like this is a takeover of a 0:58:17.000 --> 0:58:21.680 tech company unquote. Musk's own personal success hasn't been from 0:58:21.680 --> 0:58:24.920 his skill as an inventor or a software engineer. What 0:58:25.040 --> 0:58:29.479 he's proficient at is taking over corporations and molding them 0:58:29.520 --> 0:58:33.120 in his image. This is what happened to Tesla, SpaceX 0:58:33.200 --> 0:58:37.200 and Twitter in twenty twenty. Musk called the federal government 0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:42.200 quote the ultimate corporation unquote, and now he seeks to 0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:46.919 become CEO. In doing this, Musk is following the tech 0:58:47.000 --> 0:58:51.040 industry motto of move fast and break things. So far 0:58:51.440 --> 0:58:55.960 all his actions bypass Congress. The slow controller of stable government, 0:58:56.440 --> 0:58:59.880 having everything be done via executive order and doge helps 0:58:59.880 --> 0:59:03.320 to speed run a full reboot of the administrative state. 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:06.200 The motto of the old government may as well have 0:59:06.240 --> 0:59:10.760 been move slow and build things. Progress is slow, but 0:59:10.920 --> 0:59:14.720 detonation is fast. The breakage of government isn't a mere 0:59:14.880 --> 0:59:18.160 side effect or a bug of this expediated form of rule. 0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:23.520 It's a feature to reshape the government into their ideal technocracy. First, 0:59:23.640 --> 0:59:27.400 breaking things is a requirement. They might not get away 0:59:27.400 --> 0:59:29.600 with all of it, and they don't need to. They're 0:59:29.600 --> 0:59:32.600 doing so much so fast, knowing that they will only 0:59:32.600 --> 0:59:35.560 get away with some of it. But with new Supreme 0:59:35.640 --> 0:59:39.919 Court approved presidential immunity and unlimited pardon power, they can 0:59:39.960 --> 0:59:43.680 try as much as they want with zero consequence. These 0:59:43.680 --> 0:59:45.640 are not the moves you would make if you wanted 0:59:45.680 --> 0:59:48.760 a stable government. It's the moves you would make as 0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:52.400 a new tech company, which is why Musk's operation is 0:59:52.600 --> 0:59:57.840 masked with the Silicon Valley language of efficiency. The inefficiencies 0:59:57.840 --> 1:00:01.640 of government are part of the point. That's what creates stability, 1:00:01.680 --> 1:00:05.200 makes the country a trusted ally, and gives the dollar value. 1:00:05.600 --> 1:00:06.080 Quote. 1:00:06.320 --> 1:00:11.400 Regulations can be bothersome sometimes and downright problematic, but that's 1:00:11.560 --> 1:00:14.400 kind of the point. They act as a control on 1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:18.120 imprecise and rushed decision making. If the cost of doing 1:00:18.160 --> 1:00:21.280 business is slowing down the process, that's the cost that 1:00:21.400 --> 1:00:24.520 has to be made, to quote a government employee who 1:00:24.560 --> 1:00:29.160 spoke on the condition of anonymity. But those inefficiencies and 1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:34.080 pesky regulations really irritate the Silicon Valley tech bros who 1:00:34.120 --> 1:00:37.160 think they are the smartest people on the planet. It's 1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:40.600 their view that since they're so smart, shouldn't they run 1:00:40.640 --> 1:00:43.920 the country. Musk has a personal interest in slashing the 1:00:43.960 --> 1:00:47.800 regulatory state, as it interferes with his own businesses and 1:00:47.960 --> 1:00:52.800 dreams of space colonization. Last year, Musk claimed that Doge 1:00:52.880 --> 1:00:58.120 quote was the only path to extending life beyond Earth unquote. 1:00:58.480 --> 1:01:01.680 The White House Press Secretary has said that Musk himself 1:01:01.760 --> 1:01:04.920 will determine when there is a conflict of interest involving 1:01:04.920 --> 1:01:10.440 his businesses and Doge. SpaceX alone has received fifteen point 1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:14.160 four billion dollars in government contracts, according to The New 1:01:14.240 --> 1:01:19.160 York Times. The large reduction in the federal workforce through 1:01:19.280 --> 1:01:22.320 the combined efforts of doge and schedule F. There is 1:01:22.400 --> 1:01:26.080 an irrefutable similarity to a plan outlined by New Right 1:01:26.160 --> 1:01:31.120 blogger Curtis Jarvin, Peter Thiel's favorite philosopher. Last year, Robert 1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:33.960 Evans did a behind the Bastards on Curtis Yarvin, and 1:01:34.040 --> 1:01:37.240 you should absolutely check that out for more information. In 1:01:37.280 --> 1:01:40.959 twenty twenty two, Jarvin outlined how a second Trump term 1:01:41.160 --> 1:01:45.960 could quote unquote reboot the United States government. This plan 1:01:46.120 --> 1:01:50.680 amounts to a corporate takeover of government, which subsequently reshapes 1:01:50.720 --> 1:01:54.960 the structure of government, akin to a corporation. Though in 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:58.160 Yarvin's mind, it is not President Trump who assumes the 1:01:58.240 --> 1:02:02.640 role of CEO. Instead, the President acts as chairman of 1:02:02.680 --> 1:02:06.840 the board, and before inauguration should select a CEO who 1:02:06.880 --> 1:02:11.480 is an experienced executive. This appointed CEO could then quote 1:02:11.840 --> 1:02:15.120 run the executive branch without any interference from Congress or 1:02:15.120 --> 1:02:18.760 the courts, to quote Jarvin. While President Trump reviews the 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:23.920 CEO's performance in the background, Jarvin writes, quote most existing 1:02:24.080 --> 1:02:27.840 important institutions, public and private will be shut down and 1:02:27.960 --> 1:02:32.160 replaced with new and efficient systems. Trump will be monitoring 1:02:32.200 --> 1:02:35.840 this CEO's performance on TV and can fire him if 1:02:36.000 --> 1:02:39.880 need be unquote. Musk may believe that he has successfully 1:02:39.920 --> 1:02:43.440 maneuvered Trump into appointing him CEO, but Trump could be 1:02:43.520 --> 1:02:47.120 well aware of Musk's ambitions, but is keeping him around 1:02:47.240 --> 1:02:51.480 as an emergency patsy, ready to fire when needed. The 1:02:51.480 --> 1:02:55.080 Trump admin is currently testing the limits of presidential authority, 1:02:55.480 --> 1:02:58.240 and once those limits get surpassed by the standards of 1:02:58.280 --> 1:03:02.000 Senate Republicans, Musk is the easiest guy to blame and 1:03:02.120 --> 1:03:06.400 push out of the administration's inner circle. The first step 1:03:06.440 --> 1:03:10.600 in Yarvin's plan has the Trump campaign running on centralizing 1:03:10.720 --> 1:03:15.360 executive power to eliminate government inefficiency. This was both in 1:03:15.400 --> 1:03:19.120 line with Project twenty twenty five and Musk's suggestion of 1:03:19.160 --> 1:03:23.120 an efficiency commission once Trump gets into office. The plan 1:03:23.320 --> 1:03:30.240 is as follows, purge bureaucracy what Jarvin calls rage retire 1:03:30.480 --> 1:03:35.120 all government employees. This is essentially being carried out by 1:03:35.160 --> 1:03:38.920 doge schedule lef and by just pressuring career employees to 1:03:39.000 --> 1:03:45.120 accept deferred resignation offers. By threatening future mass layoffs, senior 1:03:45.200 --> 1:03:47.960 level officials have been replaced by a batch of loyal 1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:52.760 tech oligarchs with links to Musk and Peter Teel. The 1:03:52.800 --> 1:03:56.920 stupidity of Doge was almost a secret weapon. The cryptocurrency 1:03:57.160 --> 1:04:02.120 meanness made everyone in respectable society not take the idea seriously. 1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:05.280 What's the worst an advisory commission could do with no 1:04:05.480 --> 1:04:07.680 power to enforce its suggestions. 1:04:08.560 --> 1:04:09.000 Oops. 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:14.360 Another step in Yarvin's plan is to nullify elite institutions 1:04:14.360 --> 1:04:18.720 of power like the media and academia. Musk's takeover of 1:04:18.720 --> 1:04:22.080 Twitter has gone a long way in altering the country's 1:04:22.120 --> 1:04:26.000 information ecosystem. The Trump admen seems to be utilizing Steve 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:30.000 Bannon's flood the Zone strategy to distract and exhaust the media, 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:34.680 as well as more directed attacks. On January thirty, first, 1:04:34.920 --> 1:04:37.800 the Department of Defense kicked out NBC News, The New 1:04:37.920 --> 1:04:41.960 York Times, NPR, and Politico from their in house press 1:04:41.960 --> 1:04:45.760 offices and replace them with One American News, The New 1:04:45.840 --> 1:04:51.480 York Post, Breitbart, and huff Post. Under direction from Doge, 1:04:51.680 --> 1:04:55.280 the White House has ordered government agencies to cancel subscriptions 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:58.919 to policy news services from multiple news outlets. A White 1:04:58.920 --> 1:05:02.680 House advisor told Axios, quote, the eye of Sauron is 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:06.880 on more than just Politico, It's all the media unquote. 1:05:07.480 --> 1:05:11.000 In terms of attacks on academia, the federal grant freeze 1:05:11.000 --> 1:05:16.040 has had devastating effects on university research. Another step in 1:05:16.120 --> 1:05:20.160 Yarvin's plan is to co opt Congress and ignore the courts. 1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:24.160 This is where we are at right now. The goal 1:05:24.200 --> 1:05:27.400 is to reduce both the judicial and legislative branches to 1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:32.120 being purely ceremonial and advisory, as advocated by Yarvin. So far, 1:05:32.160 --> 1:05:36.160 the Trump administration has effectively sidestepped the legislative bodies via 1:05:36.200 --> 1:05:39.960 Elon Musk and Doge. It's highly unlikely Trump would ever 1:05:40.040 --> 1:05:44.000 be impeached or removed by this Congress. Furthermore, this Congress 1:05:44.040 --> 1:05:48.000 seems to have willfully given up on their power over 1:05:48.040 --> 1:05:51.920 the federal budget. To quote a senior government official quote, 1:05:52.320 --> 1:05:55.520 the real challenge is that Congress is on board for 1:05:55.600 --> 1:06:00.400 now in losing their own budgetary authority. So far, a 1:06:00.520 --> 1:06:03.880 loan security guard standing outside you, sayed and the Department 1:06:03.920 --> 1:06:06.720 of Education has been enough to deter resistance from the 1:06:06.720 --> 1:06:10.360 Democratic Party. Last week, I interviewed to Derek Black, a 1:06:10.440 --> 1:06:13.840 constitutional law professor at the University of South Carolina. The 1:06:13.920 --> 1:06:17.400 full interview will air tomorrow, but here's his short take 1:06:17.560 --> 1:06:19.040 on the current situation. 1:06:19.720 --> 1:06:23.200 When Congress is willing to hand the keys over to 1:06:23.240 --> 1:06:28.200 the president. Then we really no longer really have a democracy, 1:06:28.280 --> 1:06:31.560 or at least the constitutional democracy that was created, you know, 1:06:31.680 --> 1:06:34.200 a couple centuries ago. So the bigger danger, I think 1:06:34.320 --> 1:06:39.360 is that through law itself, Congress sedes more and more 1:06:39.440 --> 1:06:41.960 power to the president with a new legislation. So if 1:06:42.000 --> 1:06:45.880 Congress were to pass new legislation giving the president more 1:06:45.920 --> 1:06:48.360 centralized power, well that would be a concerning thing to me. 1:06:48.920 --> 1:06:49.360 Right now. 1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:51.600 The real roadblock is the courts. 1:06:52.400 --> 1:06:55.760 The Trump administration has already displayed a willingness to ignore 1:06:55.800 --> 1:06:58.640 the courts based on the continued halting of federal spending 1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:03.360 and grants order from a US district judge. The Justice 1:07:03.360 --> 1:07:06.400 Department has argued that the order to resume funding quote 1:07:06.800 --> 1:07:10.320 contains several ambiguous terms and provisions that could be read 1:07:10.360 --> 1:07:14.600 to constitute significant intrusions on the executive branch's lawful authorities 1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:19.240 and the separation of powers unquote. This past weekend, Musk 1:07:19.520 --> 1:07:22.960 raged against a federal judge who ordered to temporarily restrict 1:07:23.040 --> 1:07:27.240 doja's access to Treasury Department data. Both Musk and the 1:07:27.280 --> 1:07:30.800 White House have labeled a judge an activist, with White 1:07:30.840 --> 1:07:35.160 House spokesperson Harrison Fields calling the order quote absurd and 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:40.240 judicial overreach unquote. On x the Everything app, Musk boosted 1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:44.120 claims calling this a judicial coup and shared an announcement 1:07:44.240 --> 1:07:49.200 from California Representative darryl Isa to introduce legislation to quote 1:07:49.240 --> 1:07:54.400 unquote stop these rogue judges. But even without added legislation, 1:07:55.080 --> 1:07:57.960 Musk and the Trump administration are gearing up to directly 1:07:58.000 --> 1:08:02.560 defy judicial authority. On Saturday, Musk shared a tweet reading, 1:08:03.200 --> 1:08:05.640 I don't like the president it sets when you defy 1:08:05.680 --> 1:08:09.200 a judicial ruling, But I'm just wondering what other options 1:08:09.240 --> 1:08:11.600 are these judges leaving us if they're going to blatantly 1:08:11.640 --> 1:08:16.400 disregard the Constitution for their own partisan political goals quote. 1:08:17.120 --> 1:08:20.400 And On Sunday, Vice President j. D Vance posted a 1:08:20.439 --> 1:08:22.679 statement undermining judicial power. 1:08:22.800 --> 1:08:23.240 Quote. 1:08:23.400 --> 1:08:25.439 If a judge tried to tell a general how to 1:08:25.479 --> 1:08:28.560 conduct a military operation, that would be illegal. If a 1:08:28.640 --> 1:08:31.200 judge tried to command the attorney general in how to 1:08:31.320 --> 1:08:35.120 use her discretion as a prosecutor, that's also illegal. Judges 1:08:35.240 --> 1:08:41.360 aren't allowed to control executive's legitimate power unquote. So now 1:08:41.439 --> 1:08:44.639 it all comes down to force. If the executive branch 1:08:44.800 --> 1:08:49.800 not just ignores judicial authority, but blatantly defies it. Who 1:08:49.800 --> 1:08:52.479 would be left to enforce the power of the court. 1:08:53.560 --> 1:08:56.640 That leads us to another step in Yarvin's plan, centralize 1:08:56.680 --> 1:09:00.880 the police, nationalize local law enforcement to place them under 1:09:00.880 --> 1:09:04.360 federal control. Trump has flirted with his tactic in the past, 1:09:04.400 --> 1:09:08.280 when he deputized Washington police as US marshals to kill 1:09:08.320 --> 1:09:12.040 Michael Rhinol. In twenty twenty, Doge staff threatened to call 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:14.720 us marshals when you say to security officials who have 1:09:14.720 --> 1:09:19.040 since been fired, denied them access to classified systems. Jorvin 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:21.160 believes this step is paramount. 1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:21.839 Quote. 1:09:22.160 --> 1:09:25.760 Support of the democratic public is a cipher. I think 1:09:25.760 --> 1:09:29.600 that actually all you need is command of the police unquote, 1:09:30.160 --> 1:09:32.639 if you have all of the guys with guns who 1:09:32.720 --> 1:09:36.960 can physically stop you. Support from the public doesn't hurt, though, 1:09:37.439 --> 1:09:41.000 and if things get tricky, Trump could employ the next 1:09:41.040 --> 1:09:47.040 step in Yarvin's plan. Mobilize populist support, but crucially, don't 1:09:47.040 --> 1:09:49.600 wait until you're at your weakest at the end of 1:09:49.640 --> 1:09:53.799 your term after losing an election under popular mandate, deploy 1:09:53.880 --> 1:09:56.920 your empowered supporters at the height of your powers to 1:09:56.960 --> 1:10:00.240 oppose any obstruction from government agencies or the cour sort. 1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:04.760 Trump may weaponize a Supreme Court ordained presidential immunity and 1:10:04.840 --> 1:10:08.639 his unrestricted pardon power to make any willing actor carry 1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:12.840 out his bidding with zero risk of legal consequence. Now, 1:10:12.880 --> 1:10:16.280 even if Trump himself isn't aware of Jarvin's plan, his 1:10:16.439 --> 1:10:20.360 vice president certainly is. On a far right podcast in 1:10:20.360 --> 1:10:24.160 twenty twenty one, JD. Vance laid out a very similar 1:10:24.240 --> 1:10:27.679 vision for a second Trump term, using what the Peter 1:10:27.800 --> 1:10:33.600 Teel protege described as a dewocification program to purge bureaucracy. 1:10:33.880 --> 1:10:35.320 I think Trump is going to run again in twenty 1:10:35.320 --> 1:10:37.240 twenty four. I think he'll probably win again in twenty 1:10:37.280 --> 1:10:39.840 twenty four. I think that what Trump should do, like 1:10:39.880 --> 1:10:42.799 if I was giving him one piece of advice, fire 1:10:43.040 --> 1:10:46.200 every single mid level bureaucrat, every civil sermon in the 1:10:46.200 --> 1:10:49.799 administrative state. Replace them with our people. And when the courts, 1:10:49.840 --> 1:10:51.960 because you will get taken to court. And then when 1:10:51.960 --> 1:10:55.479 the courts stop, you stand before the country like Andrew 1:10:55.560 --> 1:10:58.120 Jackson did, and say the Chief Justice has made his ruling, 1:10:58.160 --> 1:10:59.040 now let him enforce It. 1:11:00.200 --> 1:11:03.759 Writes that the initial goal of this new administration should 1:11:03.800 --> 1:11:08.200 not be simply to govern, but to quote figure out 1:11:08.320 --> 1:11:12.080 what the Trump administration can actually do when it assumes 1:11:12.200 --> 1:11:15.520 the full constitutional power is given to the chief executive 1:11:15.600 --> 1:11:20.000 of the executive branch unquote. What the administration can do 1:11:20.160 --> 1:11:24.160 once they fully seize this power is so incredibly vast. 1:11:24.520 --> 1:11:28.040 Without checks and balances, all those crazy things Trump tried 1:11:28.080 --> 1:11:30.439 to do during his first term would be a lot 1:11:30.640 --> 1:11:33.800 easier to enact, let alone, whatever Musk and the tech 1:11:33.840 --> 1:11:38.000 oligarchs want out of the United States incorporated. But that's 1:11:38.040 --> 1:11:41.400 a whole separate topic. The current fight determines the degree 1:11:41.439 --> 1:11:45.160 to which this power is seized, and Jarvin notes the 1:11:45.160 --> 1:11:46.880 importance of going all the way. 1:11:47.320 --> 1:11:47.799 Quote. 1:11:48.200 --> 1:11:51.240 When Trump in twenty seventeen took office, he took about 1:11:51.760 --> 1:11:55.640 zero point zero one percent of power. If Trump in 1:11:55.680 --> 1:11:59.240 twenty twenty one wants to have more than zero point 1:11:59.600 --> 1:12:03.640 zero zero one percent of power, the only way he 1:12:03.720 --> 1:12:07.040 can do it is to take one hundred percent, take 1:12:07.080 --> 1:12:09.759 it all at once, completely legally. 1:12:10.320 --> 1:12:11.200 The real Donald J. 1:12:11.360 --> 1:12:13.720 Trump would never have the guts to even think of 1:12:13.800 --> 1:12:18.320 doing this, and he's just too old unquote. Funny pessimism 1:12:18.400 --> 1:12:21.600 from Jarvin. There, all of this doesn't even need to 1:12:21.680 --> 1:12:27.360 benefit average Trump supporters, because Trump's main campaign promise wasn't 1:12:27.560 --> 1:12:32.200 mass deportations, fixing the economy, or abolishing the Department of Education. 1:12:32.960 --> 1:12:38.240 It was retribution as extremism. Analyst Jared Holt notes, quote 1:12:38.560 --> 1:12:41.200 the right got its base so hooked on the idea 1:12:41.240 --> 1:12:44.120 of revenge. He doesn't even need to pretend that any 1:12:44.160 --> 1:12:47.720 of this benefits their base in any tangible way. They 1:12:47.800 --> 1:12:50.599 just have to say it hurts the wrong people, and 1:12:50.680 --> 1:12:52.200 that satisfies them. 1:12:52.280 --> 1:12:52.800 Unquote. 1:12:53.680 --> 1:12:56.720 If Trump and Musk continue to get their way, it 1:12:56.760 --> 1:12:59.840 could take years to fix. But the past ten years 1:12:59.880 --> 1:13:04.120 have shown us you can't really return to normal. There 1:13:04.200 --> 1:13:08.160 probably is no going back. The options are to hunker 1:13:08.280 --> 1:13:11.160 down and play it slow and try to survive whatever 1:13:11.200 --> 1:13:14.280 happens in the next two to four years while offering 1:13:14.479 --> 1:13:19.720 passive resistance, or we accelerate to whatever comes next, put 1:13:19.760 --> 1:13:23.400 cards on the table, trigger a kinetic confrontation, and fully 1:13:23.439 --> 1:13:28.000 manifest the results of this constitutional crisis. We are dealing 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:33.559 with managing crumbles versus a full system's collapse. Sad face 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:59.960 emoji this is it could happen here. I'm Garrison Day. 1:14:01.200 --> 1:14:04.000 Last week I was working on an essay about how 1:14:04.120 --> 1:14:07.080 the Trump administration is trying to shut down the Department 1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:12.400 of Education. Now very quickly that project expanded to being 1:14:12.439 --> 1:14:15.400 about how Elon Musk is actually trying to internally coop 1:14:15.439 --> 1:14:19.559 the federal government and become the CEO of the United States. 1:14:20.520 --> 1:14:24.120 That article is now published on Shatterzone dot substack dot com, 1:14:24.160 --> 1:14:24.919 and it's also. 1:14:24.760 --> 1:14:26.720 The previous episode of this podcast. 1:14:27.240 --> 1:14:30.799 But during my research, I talked with law professor Derek 1:14:30.840 --> 1:14:34.760 Black about the Department of Education, the state of disunion 1:14:34.840 --> 1:14:40.040 in the country, and if we still have a democracy already. 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:42.839 Some of the things we talked about have begun to happen, 1:14:43.080 --> 1:14:47.080 like Republicans introducing legislation to expanding executive power, while Trump 1:14:47.160 --> 1:14:50.120 and Musk flirt with denying the authority of the courts. 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:54.320 But I decided to publish the full interview because I 1:14:54.400 --> 1:14:57.919 believe his perspective is still helpful and the conversational format 1:14:58.120 --> 1:15:00.920 alters the way we process information compared to me just 1:15:01.160 --> 1:15:05.559 reading a kind of depressing essay for forty minutes. So, 1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:08.240 without further ado, here is the interviewing. 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:10.920 I'm Derek Black. 1:15:10.960 --> 1:15:13.440 I'm a professor of law at the University of South Carolina. 1:15:13.720 --> 1:15:16.800 My area focuses on education, law and policy and really 1:15:16.840 --> 1:15:19.080 sort of how that relates to democracy. But I teach 1:15:19.320 --> 1:15:22.479 constitutional law and courses like that, author of a couple 1:15:22.520 --> 1:15:25.720 of books schoolhouse burning, public education, and the assault on 1:15:25.720 --> 1:15:29.599 American democracy, and then more recently dangerous learning the South 1:15:29.760 --> 1:15:31.160 long war on Black literacy. 1:15:31.680 --> 1:15:34.320 Let's start by discussing what's going on at the Department 1:15:34.320 --> 1:15:37.040 of Education right now, and maybe let's actually start a 1:15:37.080 --> 1:15:40.719 little bit further back. Attacks on the Department of Education 1:15:40.800 --> 1:15:45.479 like are not new. Reagan famously kind of pioneered the 1:15:45.560 --> 1:15:48.439 rights focus on this, but it's been something they've struggled 1:15:48.479 --> 1:15:52.679 to deal sizable blows against, especially in terms of wanting 1:15:52.720 --> 1:15:55.240 to abolish the organization. Could you talk about like the 1:15:55.360 --> 1:15:58.360 history of conservative attacks against the department? 1:15:58.720 --> 1:16:03.000 Yeah, I mean there's always been this states rights issue 1:16:03.040 --> 1:16:06.519 that's been with America since its founding. Obviously was a 1:16:06.520 --> 1:16:08.280 big part of the Civil War, big part of the 1:16:08.320 --> 1:16:10.240 Civil rights movement, you know, a big part of the 1:16:10.280 --> 1:16:13.920 Affordable Healthcare Act debate. So you always have this stage 1:16:14.000 --> 1:16:17.160 rights argument going on, and at least amongst the folks 1:16:17.200 --> 1:16:20.080 that are worried about that, public education comes up as 1:16:20.120 --> 1:16:23.960 being a target because there's this argument always that well, 1:16:24.240 --> 1:16:26.880 education is not in the federal constitution, so what business 1:16:26.920 --> 1:16:28.960 does the federal government have to be involved, and so 1:16:29.400 --> 1:16:31.800 it's really more of a talking point as opposed to 1:16:31.840 --> 1:16:35.120 any particular substantive reason why they want to get rid 1:16:35.160 --> 1:16:37.320 of it. But that's really where it's come from. But 1:16:37.680 --> 1:16:41.479 you know, it's often been not that serious of a critique, 1:16:41.479 --> 1:16:43.679 but obviously it's gotten very serious here in the last 1:16:43.720 --> 1:16:44.600 couple of weeks. 1:16:45.080 --> 1:16:48.160 Yeah, that's the general overall feeling I'm having is that 1:16:48.439 --> 1:16:51.000 there's a lot of things going on that I would 1:16:51.040 --> 1:16:55.160 have previously thought are kind of like pipe dreams. Calls 1:16:55.200 --> 1:16:59.000 to abolish the Department of Education, even this rallying call 1:16:59.040 --> 1:17:01.879 from the new Right the past years to abolish the FBI, 1:17:02.560 --> 1:17:04.840 general claims of you know, like draining the swamp, these 1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:08.479 types of like old it's almost like stereotypical claims that 1:17:08.640 --> 1:17:11.080 now through musk they've been able to like weasel their 1:17:11.120 --> 1:17:14.840 way into actually dismantling like large, large systems that make 1:17:14.920 --> 1:17:19.400 the everyday functionality of the government possible. What should people 1:17:19.439 --> 1:17:22.960 know right now about the current attacks in the Department 1:17:23.000 --> 1:17:27.439 of Education? Trump is still allegedly drafting in executive order. 1:17:27.800 --> 1:17:30.360 He'll probably have to work through Congress, but we'll see 1:17:30.400 --> 1:17:33.000 the degree to which he even needs to do that 1:17:33.800 --> 1:17:35.200 what are you worried about like right now, and what 1:17:35.240 --> 1:17:38.080 do you think people should know about like the current 1:17:38.280 --> 1:17:40.280 the current attacks on the dewy. 1:17:41.040 --> 1:17:44.360 Well, there's the sort of immediate worries and then there's 1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:46.880 the larger worries. The immediate worries I'll have to say, 1:17:46.880 --> 1:17:49.200 I'm not terribly worried about. I mean, if you look 1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:52.200 at the reporting that we've seen, it is interesting that 1:17:52.520 --> 1:17:55.200 the White House seems to distinguish between the things that 1:17:55.240 --> 1:17:58.479 it can do unilaterally right without Congress, and those things 1:17:58.520 --> 1:18:01.320 that would need Congress. And I mean, it's a weird 1:18:01.960 --> 1:18:05.880 silver lining, but that gives me like some like measure 1:18:05.920 --> 1:18:10.000 of comfortability in this weird, bizarre world, only because you know, 1:18:10.240 --> 1:18:14.160 two weeks ago the administration was willing to do things 1:18:14.640 --> 1:18:16.559 that it had no authority to do right, just sort 1:18:16.560 --> 1:18:19.040 of his claiming authority to do everything. And so there 1:18:19.200 --> 1:18:22.920 is this at least recognition that there's not unbounded power. 1:18:23.040 --> 1:18:25.840 So that's sort of the immediate threat is not that 1:18:26.040 --> 1:18:30.200 huge because the White House or Trump's power over the 1:18:30.240 --> 1:18:32.400 Department or to close it up is relatively narrow, like 1:18:32.439 --> 1:18:35.519 most of the Department is established by statute, and he 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:37.960 can't just dissolve things or move things around that are 1:18:37.960 --> 1:18:40.280 created by statute. He can't take money that's for poor 1:18:40.360 --> 1:18:43.280 kids and spend them on vouchers. Right, these things, you know, 1:18:43.320 --> 1:18:47.560 the law dictates. And the fact that he's implicitly acknowledging, 1:18:47.960 --> 1:18:51.559 or rather his advisors or implicitly acknowledging they need Congress's 1:18:51.560 --> 1:18:53.479 help gives me a little bit of comfort because I 1:18:53.520 --> 1:18:56.800 think that getting rid of the department is I'm not 1:18:56.840 --> 1:18:59.400 sure there's a majority in the House for that, but 1:18:59.439 --> 1:19:02.759 there's certainly not a filibuster, you know, sixty vote majority 1:19:02.760 --> 1:19:05.720 for that in the Senate. So that's short term. But 1:19:05.800 --> 1:19:08.640 I think there's something far more disturbing to me, and 1:19:08.640 --> 1:19:12.120 it's the long term, This sort of idea that there's 1:19:12.160 --> 1:19:15.439 something illegitimate about the federal role and education, that there's 1:19:15.479 --> 1:19:20.440 something illegitimate about public education itself. Those are very dangerous ideas. 1:19:20.600 --> 1:19:22.840 I have a piece that just came out yesterday and 1:19:23.360 --> 1:19:26.720 Slate that says, look, you know, the federal role in 1:19:26.760 --> 1:19:31.040 public education predates the Constitution itself. You know, probably no one, 1:19:31.240 --> 1:19:33.759 not many listeners, probably familiar, ever heard of the Northwest 1:19:33.840 --> 1:19:37.000 Ordinances of seventeen eighty five and seventeen eighty seven, but 1:19:37.040 --> 1:19:40.560 before we even had a United States Constitution. This foundational 1:19:40.600 --> 1:19:44.240 document laid out how our territory is going to become states. 1:19:44.439 --> 1:19:47.960 And without going through all the details, Congress embeds public 1:19:48.080 --> 1:19:51.200 education and the very fabric of what it means to 1:19:51.240 --> 1:19:54.479 be a state before we even have a constitution. And 1:19:54.520 --> 1:19:57.040 so that's very important. Is where we start at the 1:19:57.120 --> 1:19:59.360 end of the Civil War, right where we almost lost 1:19:59.360 --> 1:20:03.320 our democer see Congress as a condition of readmitting Southern 1:20:03.360 --> 1:20:06.040 states into the Union, says that one of the terms 1:20:06.040 --> 1:20:09.360 of readmission is that you create public education system and 1:20:09.400 --> 1:20:12.479 you never take those rights away, right, forcing public education 1:20:12.600 --> 1:20:15.519 into the South in places where it never had been before. 1:20:15.840 --> 1:20:18.080 You know, people are more familiar with the civil rights movement. 1:20:18.120 --> 1:20:21.120 So I won't go through all that, but just to 1:20:21.200 --> 1:20:24.719 take one more pause, I mean, Congress created a Department 1:20:24.720 --> 1:20:28.800 of Education in eighteen sixty seven, right to get this 1:20:28.920 --> 1:20:32.600 public education project off the ground. So this isn't some 1:20:32.840 --> 1:20:36.200 wild new sort of fantasy of liberals or unions that 1:20:36.200 --> 1:20:38.800 we need a department so that we can hand over 1:20:38.840 --> 1:20:42.120 the spoils to teachers. This is an idea about what 1:20:42.200 --> 1:20:45.439 it means to have democracy in America and public education 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:48.280 is a centerpiece of that, and the federal government has 1:20:48.280 --> 1:20:51.000 been pushing it for two hundred and fifty years. And 1:20:51.040 --> 1:20:52.800 that's a good thing. It's a good thing. 1:20:53.280 --> 1:20:56.479 How do you think that relates to the administration's attempts 1:20:56.520 --> 1:20:59.360 to centralize executive power? Though, Like, if you look at 1:20:59.360 --> 1:21:01.719 like what happened with you say it, right, this agency 1:21:01.760 --> 1:21:04.160 that has been has been tried in law that may 1:21:04.200 --> 1:21:08.919 not be legally abolished now, but they've been effectively abolished, 1:21:08.960 --> 1:21:11.040 Like all the employees are on leave, it's been hallowed out. 1:21:11.320 --> 1:21:13.040 It essentially no longer exists. 1:21:13.800 --> 1:21:16.639 I feel like they're trying to at the very least 1:21:16.760 --> 1:21:21.440 test the bare limits of executive power and bypass Congress 1:21:21.600 --> 1:21:25.040 when they can. Part of my fear is like Congress 1:21:25.080 --> 1:21:27.680 is not willing to fight them on that, Seemingly like 1:21:27.720 --> 1:21:30.439 they're not willing to call them on that. They're almost 1:21:30.479 --> 1:21:35.120 willing to acquiesce their like appropriation's ability as well as 1:21:35.120 --> 1:21:37.120 you know, the ability to have actually have to like 1:21:37.200 --> 1:21:40.280 remove departments from existence or create new ones. 1:21:40.800 --> 1:21:43.040 Yeah, so you're picking up on a thread that's much 1:21:43.040 --> 1:21:47.280 bigger than a department. Right, So, when Congress is willing 1:21:47.320 --> 1:21:49.880 to hand the keys over to the president. Then we 1:21:50.000 --> 1:21:52.960 no longer really have you know, a democracy, or at 1:21:53.040 --> 1:21:56.280 least the constitutional democracy that was created, you know, a 1:21:56.360 --> 1:21:59.599 couple of centuries ago here in which the president executes 1:21:59.640 --> 1:22:02.240 the law. The president doesn't make the law, right, Congress 1:22:02.600 --> 1:22:06.679 funds programs, not the executive. But if if ultimately Congress 1:22:06.760 --> 1:22:09.760 is going to shift all that authority over like that, 1:22:09.760 --> 1:22:12.640 that's a dangerous place for democracy to be. There are 1:22:12.680 --> 1:22:15.840 no checks anymore. So I think what you're raising up 1:22:15.920 --> 1:22:18.160 is the fear that there aren't any checks in place. 1:22:18.880 --> 1:22:21.240 You know, Fortunately, there still is a legal apparatus. I mean, 1:22:21.280 --> 1:22:25.240 even if Congress isn't standing up shouting and complaining, it's 1:22:25.240 --> 1:22:27.759 still the case the president can't just do whatever he wants, 1:22:27.760 --> 1:22:30.840 and hopefully the courts, you know, would would step in. 1:22:30.880 --> 1:22:33.439 I use the word hopefully. I think courts will step 1:22:33.439 --> 1:22:36.519 in to limit his ability to do things that go 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:39.679 beyond to statutory power. So the bigger danger, I think 1:22:39.800 --> 1:22:44.800 is that through law itself, Congress seeds more and more 1:22:44.920 --> 1:22:47.439 power to the president with a new legislation. So if 1:22:47.439 --> 1:22:51.360 Congress were to pass new legislation giving the president more 1:22:51.360 --> 1:22:53.800 centralized power, well that would be a concerning thing to me. 1:22:54.360 --> 1:22:56.040 Let me just stop and we'll get to your next 1:22:56.080 --> 1:22:58.880 question to go. But we have a larger phenomenon that's 1:22:58.960 --> 1:23:01.920 just it's not just about Trump, and people don't necessarily 1:23:01.960 --> 1:23:05.280 realize this. I mean, look, I don't think that President 1:23:05.439 --> 1:23:09.560 Obama was a dictator or had authoritarian tendencies. I was 1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:12.840 part of the Obama Biden transition team, but I testified 1:23:12.880 --> 1:23:15.679 against Arnie Duncan in a case or against the United 1:23:15.680 --> 1:23:19.240 States Department of Education in twenty twelve or fourteen or 1:23:19.280 --> 1:23:22.559 something like that, because the department was taking power that 1:23:22.640 --> 1:23:24.840 it clearly did not have in regard to a no 1:23:24.960 --> 1:23:27.680 Child Left Behind waivers. And you know, I told the 1:23:27.720 --> 1:23:30.120 current administration, as much as I hate it, right, I 1:23:30.160 --> 1:23:33.080 wish we could just wipe away student debt. I feel 1:23:33.080 --> 1:23:36.240 bad for my students who have huge debt. But I said, 1:23:36.360 --> 1:23:38.880 it is beyond the president's power to just wipe away 1:23:38.920 --> 1:23:41.200 all this debt, and they did it anyway. The real 1:23:41.240 --> 1:23:45.400 point here is that both Democrats and Republicans have been 1:23:45.520 --> 1:23:48.800 asking things of their presidents that their presidents don't have 1:23:48.920 --> 1:23:51.639 the power to do, and their presidents are doing it anyway, right, 1:23:51.680 --> 1:23:55.160 And it's because our Congress is broken. Our Congress isn't 1:23:55.200 --> 1:23:58.439 doing its job. So citizens are demanding that our presidents 1:23:58.439 --> 1:24:00.280 do things that they really don't have the power too. 1:24:00.880 --> 1:24:02.920 And that's like the big thing that I'm concerned about 1:24:03.040 --> 1:24:04.920 is we talk about these things that presidents are not 1:24:04.960 --> 1:24:08.040 quote unquote like allowed to do. And I feel like 1:24:08.040 --> 1:24:10.719 like both Trump and Muskre now are are speed running 1:24:10.760 --> 1:24:13.679 like the limits of executive power, and they are willing 1:24:13.760 --> 1:24:16.000 to test the boundaries a little bit a little bit 1:24:16.000 --> 1:24:20.000 more than previous presidents, and they're willing to break the 1:24:20.040 --> 1:24:24.760 government temporarily to like their goals be enacted. And at 1:24:24.760 --> 1:24:28.080 a certain point, it's really tricky when the thing that 1:24:28.120 --> 1:24:30.280 you always hear is, you know, like hopefully the courts 1:24:30.280 --> 1:24:33.559 will step in, hopefully they'll do something. If things get 1:24:33.560 --> 1:24:36.400 really bad, who will like literally stop them in terms 1:24:36.439 --> 1:24:39.080 of like the courts told them to halt the funding freeze, 1:24:39.360 --> 1:24:41.680 and there's there's still grants that they were refusing to 1:24:41.760 --> 1:24:45.519 issue that were already approved legally need to be followed 1:24:45.520 --> 1:24:48.400 through on that they are still withholding. And it's really 1:24:48.439 --> 1:24:50.519 frightening when it comes down to like basic level of 1:24:50.600 --> 1:24:54.800 like is there people military police who will enforce this 1:24:54.880 --> 1:24:57.680 that things get really bad? That's something I don't have 1:24:57.760 --> 1:24:59.559 like complete confidence in anymore. 1:25:00.000 --> 1:25:02.479 Well, you know, I deal with this every year at 1:25:02.479 --> 1:25:04.880 the beginning of my constitutional law class. Right, this is 1:25:04.920 --> 1:25:09.320 not a new problem. It seems more real and frightening, 1:25:09.400 --> 1:25:10.800 but it's not a new problem. And so what I 1:25:10.920 --> 1:25:14.439 tell my constitutional law students is that the rule of 1:25:14.520 --> 1:25:19.120 law doesn't exist because of courts. Right, it doesn't exist 1:25:19.200 --> 1:25:22.000 because of police officers. Right, that the rule of law, 1:25:22.160 --> 1:25:24.840 when push comes to shove, exists in the hearts and 1:25:24.920 --> 1:25:29.440 minds of Americans, and if they don't believe in it, 1:25:29.479 --> 1:25:30.320 all is lost. 1:25:30.800 --> 1:25:31.000 Right. 1:25:31.080 --> 1:25:34.400 So, for when Brown versus Board of Education was decided, 1:25:34.400 --> 1:25:38.720 it was reportedly the case that the President said, you know, 1:25:38.960 --> 1:25:41.920 if the court wants to desegregate schools, let it do 1:25:41.960 --> 1:25:44.960 it itself. Because guess what, what's the Supreme Court. It's 1:25:45.120 --> 1:25:49.439 nine old people in one building with a handful of 1:25:49.520 --> 1:25:52.120 Capitol police. Like, they can't do anything, don't have a 1:25:52.120 --> 1:25:55.719 power to do anything. Right, So, our entire system really 1:25:56.240 --> 1:25:58.919 rests on good faith, or as I tell my students, 1:25:58.960 --> 1:26:02.559 like what is due to something you know, President Trump 1:26:02.680 --> 1:26:05.840 or Biden or whoever had done. The Federal District Court 1:26:06.000 --> 1:26:11.280 issued an order directing us marshals to take President Trump 1:26:11.439 --> 1:26:14.759 into a custody, so that order goes out. The marshals 1:26:14.760 --> 1:26:17.000 receive it, they march over to the White House. They 1:26:17.000 --> 1:26:19.000 come in the door and they say, we are here 1:26:19.400 --> 1:26:22.960 to take the president. Signed and it's already been fast 1:26:22.960 --> 1:26:26.240 tracked by Supreme Court, signed by the Supreme Court. The 1:26:26.360 --> 1:26:28.640 answer to whether we'll just use Biden, the answer to 1:26:28.640 --> 1:26:32.040 whether President Biden is escorted out of the White House 1:26:32.479 --> 1:26:35.760 by US marshals is not a function of military it's 1:26:35.800 --> 1:26:38.760 not a function of police power. It's a function of 1:26:38.800 --> 1:26:41.680 when that piece of paper is held up, does the 1:26:41.720 --> 1:26:47.400 secret service member believe that the rule of law exceeds 1:26:47.439 --> 1:26:49.760 his loyalty to the man standing behind him. 1:26:49.800 --> 1:26:51.120 Yeah, that's where it's at. 1:26:51.120 --> 1:26:53.880 Right, And so you know, it really is a good 1:26:53.880 --> 1:26:56.960 faith litmus test. And I think we used to live 1:26:57.000 --> 1:27:01.599 in an era when I think we all had maybe 1:27:01.680 --> 1:27:05.040 more faith in the idea that people put fidelity and 1:27:05.080 --> 1:27:08.560 commitment to the Constitution and the law above personal loyalty. 1:27:09.040 --> 1:27:11.559 But we increasingly live in a Congress and in a 1:27:11.600 --> 1:27:14.000 world in a situation when it seems that people put 1:27:14.439 --> 1:27:17.240 personal loyalty above the Constitution. 1:27:17.360 --> 1:27:28.719 At times, JD. 1:27:28.880 --> 1:27:32.559 Vance was interviewed on a far right podcast about like 1:27:32.800 --> 1:27:36.920 two or three years ago, and he expressed desire for 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:40.800 what he called a quote unquote dewocification program. Jahan like, 1:27:41.400 --> 1:27:45.320 sounds silly, but this is basically happening now. He extrapolated 1:27:45.320 --> 1:27:47.599 and said, quote, I think Trump is going to run 1:27:47.640 --> 1:27:49.960 again in twenty twenty four. I think what Trump should 1:27:50.000 --> 1:27:52.400 do if I was giving him one piece of advice, 1:27:52.880 --> 1:27:56.320 fire every single mid level bureaucrat, every civil servant in 1:27:56.320 --> 1:28:00.439 the administrative state. Replaced them with our people. When the 1:28:00.479 --> 1:28:04.280 courts stop, you stand before the country and say, the 1:28:04.360 --> 1:28:07.680 Chief Justice has made his ruling, now let him enforce it. 1:28:09.080 --> 1:28:10.840 And I feel like we're getting closer and closer to 1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:12.000 this scenario. 1:28:12.320 --> 1:28:15.360 I'm sorry, where did jd. Vance make this statement at 1:28:15.360 --> 1:28:16.000 what context? 1:28:16.200 --> 1:28:19.759 On Jack Murphy's podcast Jack Murphy is like a fart commentator. 1:28:20.439 --> 1:28:23.719 Vance is invoking the political philosophy of Curtis Jarvin, who's 1:28:23.760 --> 1:28:27.040 becoming increasingly popular in the New Right. While lots of 1:28:27.080 --> 1:28:30.360 what Must and Trump by extension have been doing the 1:28:30.400 --> 1:28:33.280 past few weeks is taken pretty directly out of Curtis 1:28:33.400 --> 1:28:36.840 Jarvin's playbook for seizing executive power. And I feel like 1:28:36.840 --> 1:28:39.840 we're getting closer and closer to this, and so much 1:28:39.840 --> 1:28:43.200 of what's happening in various agencies it is about proving 1:28:43.240 --> 1:28:45.200 loyalty to Trump so that if there is some kind 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:50.200 of constitutional confrontation, people side with them. DOGE is basically 1:28:50.560 --> 1:28:55.439 installing loyalty tests and running through communications to see what 1:28:55.720 --> 1:28:59.280 the loyalty to Trump is For different levels of administrative 1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:03.519 employees the FBI are negotiations to stay on, but only 1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:07.120 if they can prove their loyalty to the president. And 1:29:07.200 --> 1:29:10.200 like it's it's all of these scenarios that again, like 1:29:10.400 --> 1:29:12.519 originally would be kind of far fetched. When you're hearing 1:29:12.560 --> 1:29:15.280 someone like JD. Vance talk about this a few years 1:29:15.280 --> 1:29:17.559 ago on some like right wing podcast, that's one thing 1:29:17.920 --> 1:29:20.639 to watch this like happen in real time. For people 1:29:20.680 --> 1:29:22.679 like me who study like this type of like more 1:29:22.720 --> 1:29:26.120 like esoteric far right political theory, it's kind of surreal 1:29:26.640 --> 1:29:28.360 to watch the type of thing that you've been like 1:29:28.400 --> 1:29:31.559 writing about and thinking about, like on background for years 1:29:32.040 --> 1:29:35.320 now happen. I just kind of rambled there, But do 1:29:35.320 --> 1:29:37.160 you have any like, I guess thoughts on like this 1:29:37.280 --> 1:29:39.840 idea that like Vance is talking about in terms of 1:29:39.840 --> 1:29:42.080 like creating this constitutional crisis. 1:29:42.560 --> 1:29:47.360 Well, I mean, look, I tend to be I tend 1:29:47.400 --> 1:29:49.840 to be the guy in the room that says, let's 1:29:49.880 --> 1:29:53.720 not let's not overreact, let's let's see what happens. You 1:29:53.800 --> 1:29:57.240 know that there's a lot of you know, institutional history, 1:29:57.280 --> 1:30:00.120 and there's a lot of Americans who I think the 1:30:00.160 --> 1:30:02.120 majority of good and decent people, and they don't they 1:30:02.160 --> 1:30:04.920 don't want authoritarianism. So this, this is me, right, this 1:30:05.000 --> 1:30:08.720 is my predisposition. But a week or so ago, I 1:30:08.760 --> 1:30:12.880 had a huge crisis of confidence, should we say, there 1:30:12.880 --> 1:30:16.320 were just a few events in the news that I 1:30:16.479 --> 1:30:19.880 was just like, I just never thought that this would 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:22.680 happen in America. I never thought a governor would I mean, 1:30:22.840 --> 1:30:24.439 some of this was what governors were doing. I never 1:30:24.479 --> 1:30:26.400 thought a governor would do that. I never thought a 1:30:26.400 --> 1:30:28.240 president would do that. I just never thought, you know, 1:30:28.360 --> 1:30:30.439 never thought, never thought. And so I said to myself, 1:30:30.479 --> 1:30:34.640 you know, are any of my opinions or projections you know, 1:30:34.840 --> 1:30:38.000 valid anymore? Because I'm the guy who never thought? And 1:30:38.040 --> 1:30:40.240 so that was that was you know, that was a 1:30:40.240 --> 1:30:42.640 tough twenty four hours for me. I'll have to say. So, 1:30:43.160 --> 1:30:46.080 you know, I don't know if like I just rebooted 1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:51.200 and for self sanity and move forward, or you know, 1:30:51.840 --> 1:30:54.759 whether there is still some truth and reason to believe 1:30:55.080 --> 1:30:57.680 in certain stability. And I mean, I will say this, 1:30:58.200 --> 1:31:00.639 you know, as we started this conversation, and the fact 1:31:00.800 --> 1:31:04.120 that the White House is conceding that it can't do 1:31:04.240 --> 1:31:06.680 everything to the Department of Education that it wants to 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:09.920 do without Congress is a good thing. If you read 1:31:09.960 --> 1:31:14.519 the five executive orders for that they've already issued there, 1:31:14.520 --> 1:31:17.760 it's a good thing that actually, if you read them carefully, 1:31:18.560 --> 1:31:23.719 it's mostly directing appointees to think about stuff, not actually 1:31:23.840 --> 1:31:26.800 do stuff, but to think about stuff. And of course 1:31:26.840 --> 1:31:30.360 the president can appoint them to think about stuff. If 1:31:30.360 --> 1:31:32.880 they do the stuff they're thinking about, that becomes a problem. 1:31:32.880 --> 1:31:35.120 But again it is this sort of like can I 1:31:35.200 --> 1:31:38.639 grab a headline about what would sound like an awful 1:31:39.400 --> 1:31:41.320 you know reality, But really, all I've done is type 1:31:41.320 --> 1:31:43.639 of to think about that reality. You know, that gives 1:31:43.680 --> 1:31:49.280 me some faith, right And notwithstanding the fact that this 1:31:49.439 --> 1:31:53.600 United States Supreme Court, you know, granted an immunity to 1:31:54.200 --> 1:31:57.960 all presidents that I never could have imagined. You know, 1:31:58.040 --> 1:32:01.880 this court does you know, issue opinions that surprise us 1:32:02.000 --> 1:32:04.840 every single term, and they line up with the rule 1:32:04.880 --> 1:32:08.080 of law. It's just it's unpredictable to some extent which 1:32:08.080 --> 1:32:10.479 which opinions those are going to be. So I have 1:32:10.640 --> 1:32:13.920 this faith, you know, these sort of pieces of of 1:32:13.960 --> 1:32:17.360 the puzzle that still suggests we're still democracy and are 1:32:17.360 --> 1:32:19.760 going to remain one. But you know, I have I 1:32:19.800 --> 1:32:21.840 have my really bad days. I think, like you know, 1:32:21.920 --> 1:32:23.280 I think a lot of people have a bad day 1:32:23.320 --> 1:32:24.920 every day right now. It's you know, I just feel 1:32:24.920 --> 1:32:28.000 thankful minor mine or fewer and further between than others. 1:32:28.040 --> 1:32:30.479 And maybe that's just psychological coping. I don't know. 1:32:41.320 --> 1:32:44.800 Let's let's I guess clip we're talking about disunion and 1:32:44.800 --> 1:32:47.479 and how that relates to the general feeling I think 1:32:47.520 --> 1:32:49.920 a lot of people are experiencing around the country as 1:32:49.920 --> 1:32:52.360 well as you know, linking back again to the attacks 1:32:52.360 --> 1:32:53.400 on Department of Education. 1:32:54.320 --> 1:32:54.519 Yeah. 1:32:54.560 --> 1:32:56.519 So I spent a good a pretty good deal of 1:32:56.600 --> 1:33:00.280 time on this disunion question in my new book, Dangerously Learning, 1:33:00.360 --> 1:33:03.200 because I'm most of that book is focused on the 1:33:03.240 --> 1:33:05.880 three decades leading up to the Civil War, so that 1:33:05.880 --> 1:33:08.599 like the Civil War doesn't just happen overnight, it happens 1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:11.799 over the course of late eighteen twenties to the eighteen 1:33:11.880 --> 1:33:15.160 sixty with the South is saber rattling over and over again, 1:33:15.200 --> 1:33:18.920 openly talking about disunion. Right, so that you had a 1:33:19.040 --> 1:33:21.280 South that actually was diverse in lots of ways in 1:33:21.280 --> 1:33:24.640 its opinions about various things. I'm not going to say that, 1:33:23.840 --> 1:33:26.800 you know that there were a bunch of abolitions, but 1:33:26.840 --> 1:33:30.160 there was a manumissioned society in North Carolina in eighteen 1:33:30.200 --> 1:33:34.040 twenty nine that had I think sixteen hundred members. Right. 1:33:34.479 --> 1:33:38.240 The very idea of sixteen hundred you know, anti slavery 1:33:38.280 --> 1:33:40.840 advocates in North Carolina in the eighteen twenties is shocking 1:33:40.880 --> 1:33:43.599 to a lot of people, right, But ten years later, 1:33:43.680 --> 1:33:45.880 only twelve people show up to the final meeting, right, 1:33:45.920 --> 1:33:48.439 So you had something that changed there, right. And so 1:33:48.439 --> 1:33:51.240 you have this sort of period of escalating disunion and 1:33:51.360 --> 1:33:57.960 censorship and propaganda and sort of policing what is publicly 1:33:58.280 --> 1:34:02.080 you know, acceptable commentary in the South. All this stuff 1:34:02.120 --> 1:34:05.200 is happening sort of going in and you know, editing 1:34:05.200 --> 1:34:08.559 their sort of censoring textbooks, you know, demanding that books 1:34:08.560 --> 1:34:10.559 only be written by Southerners. Like, oh, I make a 1:34:10.560 --> 1:34:12.000 go on and on and on. We don't have time 1:34:12.040 --> 1:34:15.920 for it. What I point out though, in my analysis 1:34:15.960 --> 1:34:18.120 of what's going on, you know right now, over the 1:34:18.240 --> 1:34:21.760 last few years of education, is that there are a 1:34:21.880 --> 1:34:25.680 lot of policies that are attacking public education in the 1:34:25.720 --> 1:34:27.960 way that they previously had, and a lot of them 1:34:27.960 --> 1:34:32.720 are symbolic of disunion instincts, right, sort of just sort 1:34:32.760 --> 1:34:36.639 of anti government, right, anti sort of whatever the current 1:34:36.640 --> 1:34:40.360 culture is. And then there's actually policies that I argue 1:34:40.400 --> 1:34:43.080 are facilitating disunion. And one of those that I talk 1:34:43.120 --> 1:34:46.280 about is our public school voucher. I say, private school vouchers. 1:34:46.800 --> 1:34:50.840 You are so upset with You're so raging at the 1:34:50.880 --> 1:34:54.040 public school system that we need private school vouchers, right, 1:34:54.360 --> 1:34:58.840 and we are effectively paying, We're going to pay individuals 1:34:59.439 --> 1:35:02.720 to leave the public school system. And I call this 1:35:02.800 --> 1:35:05.439 a coded call for disunion, even if people don't think 1:35:05.520 --> 1:35:08.439 that's what they're doing. If we look back at where 1:35:08.479 --> 1:35:11.879 we started this conversation, which is institution of public education 1:35:12.080 --> 1:35:15.559 as something upon which American democracy has been built. Of course, 1:35:15.600 --> 1:35:17.600 it has lots of flaws and it wasn't perfect, but 1:35:17.640 --> 1:35:20.280 it's been part of how we build a democracy. It's 1:35:20.320 --> 1:35:24.360 always been a bipartisan project. Now becoming the thing that 1:35:24.400 --> 1:35:27.280 we rage against now becoming the thing in which we 1:35:27.320 --> 1:35:30.960 are going to finance exit from. Right, this is a 1:35:31.000 --> 1:35:36.800 step towards disunion from a fundamental institution of American democracy. 1:35:37.000 --> 1:35:41.439 What happens to us if they actually execute on that plan. 1:35:41.880 --> 1:35:44.639 I shudder to think about where we might be, because it's 1:35:44.680 --> 1:35:47.200 not just some private school that's the equivalent of the 1:35:47.240 --> 1:35:50.200 public school. We're talking about people on the public dollar 1:35:50.240 --> 1:35:54.920 retreating into their religious silos, into their racial silos, into 1:35:54.960 --> 1:35:59.200 their culture silos. And if there's anything I think that 1:35:59.280 --> 1:36:02.000 we could all agree on, is listening to only the 1:36:02.000 --> 1:36:04.479 people that you like on Twitter or listening only to 1:36:04.520 --> 1:36:06.960 the people that you like for the evening news is 1:36:07.000 --> 1:36:10.320 what got us here. And if what we have is 1:36:10.560 --> 1:36:15.679 education that becomes the equivalent of MSNBC and Fox News 1:36:15.680 --> 1:36:19.599 and Newsmax and you know whatever else, like that is 1:36:19.760 --> 1:36:22.560 a dangerous place. I don't know how we build democracy 1:36:22.640 --> 1:36:24.400 on such a system. 1:36:24.439 --> 1:36:25.840 What's the solution here? 1:36:26.439 --> 1:36:30.040 I mean, like beyond beyond people diversifying where they get 1:36:30.040 --> 1:36:33.120 their media from, and like for vast pats of the country, 1:36:33.160 --> 1:36:36.320 I think that that line's been crossed a long time ago. 1:36:36.640 --> 1:36:39.320 If you look at the way like Twitter functions, the 1:36:39.400 --> 1:36:42.599 way that people just exist in their bubbles and are 1:36:42.640 --> 1:36:45.679 happy to like people don't want to hear anything else, 1:36:46.160 --> 1:36:50.200 and with the most hostility coming from like both extreme ends. Yeah, 1:36:50.240 --> 1:36:51.880 I don't know how to get around this problem. This 1:36:51.920 --> 1:36:53.840 is something that you know, we've thought about a lot 1:36:53.920 --> 1:36:57.439 the past eight years, but certainly longer. 1:36:57.880 --> 1:37:01.360 Well, I'll say this, you know, public school can't solve 1:37:01.400 --> 1:37:03.760 all of the democracy's problem. You know, be a fool 1:37:03.800 --> 1:37:05.479 to say otherwise. But if what we're doing is talking 1:37:05.479 --> 1:37:08.720 about education itself, I think number one is that I 1:37:08.760 --> 1:37:13.440 think our leaders need to understand better understand the dangers 1:37:13.439 --> 1:37:17.000 of you know, vouchers for instance, like right now and 1:37:17.040 --> 1:37:19.120 I'm writing about this, like they think it's just a 1:37:19.160 --> 1:37:21.080 policy dispute, and like if you just look at the 1:37:21.120 --> 1:37:23.120 surface level, it's like, well, who cares if we give 1:37:23.160 --> 1:37:26.200 some more vouchers and that makes the most far reaches 1:37:26.240 --> 1:37:28.360 of our party happy. But like I think sort of 1:37:28.640 --> 1:37:32.160 really stepping back and appreciating how dangerous this is to 1:37:32.200 --> 1:37:35.120 our democracy is step one. That's hard, right, I'm talking 1:37:35.120 --> 1:37:37.320 about teaching adults to see things differently than what they 1:37:37.360 --> 1:37:40.200 currently see them. But as to our schools, I mean, 1:37:40.200 --> 1:37:42.840 I've got a little bit of stiff medicine for both sides. 1:37:42.880 --> 1:37:46.120 I mean, I do think that in the push for 1:37:46.280 --> 1:37:48.479 more justice in our public schools, and I think we 1:37:48.520 --> 1:37:50.720 do need. I mean, that's what I've devoted my career to. 1:37:51.479 --> 1:37:54.360 I do think that, Well, I don't think our schools 1:37:54.360 --> 1:37:56.639 did any of the any of the awful stuff that 1:37:56.720 --> 1:37:59.240 you know that the right has said, but I do 1:37:59.280 --> 1:38:02.479 think that they maybe were not as open to people 1:38:02.560 --> 1:38:05.360 disagreeing with them as they should have been. And what 1:38:05.400 --> 1:38:08.400 I really mean is in the push for justice, I 1:38:08.439 --> 1:38:11.960 think there was a bit of shutting down conversation. Not 1:38:12.080 --> 1:38:14.680 teaching children to reach their own conclusions, but giving them 1:38:14.680 --> 1:38:17.320 conclusions and expecting them to reach them. And so one 1:38:17.320 --> 1:38:19.080 of the things I'm working on my new book is that, like, 1:38:19.080 --> 1:38:22.559 I really think we have to rethink how we teach history, 1:38:22.920 --> 1:38:26.000 you know, how we teach literature. Maybe not so much literature. 1:38:26.000 --> 1:38:28.040 I think our literature teachers are pretty good, but rethink 1:38:28.080 --> 1:38:30.640 how we teach those things such that we are not 1:38:31.080 --> 1:38:35.160 committed to our children reaching particular conclusions. What we're committed 1:38:35.200 --> 1:38:38.360 to is our children engaging in free and open thought 1:38:38.400 --> 1:38:42.240 amongst themselves, right with hopefully an adult in the room 1:38:42.680 --> 1:38:47.080 that can you establish some guidelines. But I think you know, 1:38:47.120 --> 1:38:50.439 public education didn't do that very well five years ago, 1:38:50.560 --> 1:38:53.280 ten years ago, thirty years ago when I was there. 1:38:53.320 --> 1:38:56.000 But I think in this moment of cultural fracture, we 1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:59.840 do really have to commit to free speech, open to 1:39:00.080 --> 1:39:06.400 a inquiry, listening harder, thinking harder, right, not just bullet points, 1:39:06.640 --> 1:39:08.160 not just bullet points. 1:39:08.400 --> 1:39:12.280 What would cross the rubicon for you? People throw around 1:39:12.280 --> 1:39:16.800 the term constitutional crisis? What would actually happen that would 1:39:16.840 --> 1:39:19.160 make that something that you that you would be like 1:39:19.600 --> 1:39:22.559 this like it like like it is happening? What is 1:39:22.560 --> 1:39:23.880 that like make or break moment? 1:39:24.400 --> 1:39:26.479 You wanted me to imagine a realistic one or just 1:39:26.479 --> 1:39:28.559 sort of give you some sort of example that makes. 1:39:28.360 --> 1:39:30.559 Sense, No, like like what what would that be like 1:39:30.640 --> 1:39:32.639 for you? Because like I think everyone has their own 1:39:32.680 --> 1:39:36.920 personal rubric for like like what is too far in 1:39:36.960 --> 1:39:39.439 my mind? Like what is something that's like this is 1:39:39.520 --> 1:39:42.360 this is completely unacceptable? And for some people this this 1:39:42.400 --> 1:39:44.720 may have already happened. But like in terms of like 1:39:44.920 --> 1:39:51.200 legitimate like constitutional crisis, what is that for you? 1:39:51.960 --> 1:39:55.360 Well, this just rewind and this is I guess an 1:39:55.360 --> 1:39:58.040 example of why you know, someone still got their finger 1:39:58.160 --> 1:40:01.720 in the damn hold them back, holding it together. You know, 1:40:01.760 --> 1:40:06.080 the President of the United States asserted unilateral authority over 1:40:06.160 --> 1:40:09.880 the entire federal budget when he came into office, right, 1:40:10.240 --> 1:40:13.519 he does not have that power. Federal district court and 1:40:13.600 --> 1:40:18.479 joined it. He then backed down from that, right, but 1:40:18.560 --> 1:40:20.960 let's say he didn't back down. It's like, well, okay, 1:40:21.240 --> 1:40:23.760 you know, maybe you know it's a district court. But 1:40:23.800 --> 1:40:26.800 if the United States Supreme Court or a court of 1:40:26.800 --> 1:40:30.719 appeals told the president you lack the authority to sequestor 1:40:30.800 --> 1:40:34.160 those funds and he still did it. So just the budget, 1:40:34.520 --> 1:40:37.400 that's it. Just the budget, you know, just the belief 1:40:37.439 --> 1:40:41.280 that the president can spend our money however he wants 1:40:41.680 --> 1:40:47.120 with no constraint, and that would be crossing the rubicon. Now, 1:40:47.160 --> 1:40:49.840 I'll tell you. And this is why you know you 1:40:49.840 --> 1:40:52.680 had to kind of be like a constitutional law professor, 1:40:52.600 --> 1:40:54.719 or well, you don't have to be a constitutional law professor, 1:40:54.720 --> 1:40:57.120 but you've been following it. It's like, you know, I 1:40:57.160 --> 1:40:59.760 have been alarmed, and this goes back. This isn't just 1:40:59.800 --> 1:41:05.280 a Trump problem. Like I was alarmed with the NCLB waivers. 1:41:05.320 --> 1:41:07.960 Probably nobody in this even knows what I'm talking about. Right, like, 1:41:08.200 --> 1:41:11.479 you know, a decade ago, not that like President Obama 1:41:11.560 --> 1:41:13.360 was like going to take over the country, but alarmed 1:41:13.400 --> 1:41:15.519 that somehow another he thinks he can do this, Like 1:41:15.560 --> 1:41:17.840 why is he even testing the boundaries this way? 1:41:17.880 --> 1:41:21.320 Like executive power has been steadily expanding certainly. 1:41:21.200 --> 1:41:23.120 Yeah, and so but I was like, you know, you 1:41:23.120 --> 1:41:25.000 can kind of get it. There was some gray area 1:41:25.120 --> 1:41:26.559 this where he kind of need to be a constitutional 1:41:26.640 --> 1:41:29.160 law professor to kind of figure out why that was 1:41:29.200 --> 1:41:33.120 such a big deal. But when Biden, I mean think 1:41:33.200 --> 1:41:36.719 back and again, I don't begrudge people needing their debts relief, 1:41:36.800 --> 1:41:41.560 but when President Biden effectively asserted the power to allocate 1:41:42.160 --> 1:41:46.160 federal dollars to pay off debts, that was like, you know, 1:41:46.280 --> 1:41:49.639 half of the discretionary funds of the entire federal government. 1:41:49.720 --> 1:41:51.680 Like that's a big move to just say, yeah, I 1:41:51.760 --> 1:41:54.960 can I can commit this nation to a fifty percent 1:41:55.000 --> 1:41:58.519 increase and it's in its fiscal outlays tomorrow. That's not 1:41:58.640 --> 1:42:02.920 constitutional democracy. But now right, we have a present going 1:42:02.960 --> 1:42:05.920 even further than that. But he liked Biden at least 1:42:05.960 --> 1:42:09.519 thus far stepped back at least from the district court 1:42:09.600 --> 1:42:11.320 right when the court said can't. So it's really that 1:42:11.400 --> 1:42:14.679 sort of defying of the court at that point. Yeah, 1:42:14.960 --> 1:42:17.200 they've all been pushing the boundaries. He's pushed him further 1:42:17.600 --> 1:42:21.080 thus far. They've all complied with judicial orders, but it 1:42:21.080 --> 1:42:23.280 would be the refusal to comply with judicial order. 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:25.840 I mean, I guess the main difference there for me 1:42:26.479 --> 1:42:29.080 relates back to what you said about acting in good faith. 1:42:29.760 --> 1:42:32.280 Something that people on the left I think get mad 1:42:32.320 --> 1:42:37.360 about sometimes is Democrats seeming a complete commitment to acting 1:42:37.400 --> 1:42:41.559 in good faith sometimes. And it certainly appears that that 1:42:41.640 --> 1:42:45.360 Trump is willing to push a little bit farther, especially 1:42:45.400 --> 1:42:47.960 in terms of like tests for loyalty. And it's at 1:42:47.960 --> 1:42:50.880 a certain point, like if he does something really bad 1:42:51.600 --> 1:42:54.360 at least for these next two years, like I don't 1:42:54.400 --> 1:42:57.040 see a way that he'll get like impeached or removed 1:42:57.040 --> 1:42:59.640 from office, like certainly not with this Senate, not with 1:42:59.680 --> 1:43:03.240 this Congress, Like that check and balance just no longer 1:43:03.520 --> 1:43:07.840 is viable due to the last election, and acting with 1:43:07.960 --> 1:43:11.120 that popular mandate has I think given them a bit 1:43:11.200 --> 1:43:15.439 more courage on their side to go, you know, a 1:43:15.520 --> 1:43:18.200 little bit further, play a little bit more fast and 1:43:18.280 --> 1:43:21.760 loose some of these like checks and balances than what 1:43:21.760 --> 1:43:26.080 we've like previously seen, but this is certainly still still developing. 1:43:26.640 --> 1:43:28.960 Well, the thing that really sort of jumps out at me, 1:43:29.000 --> 1:43:31.439 and I was telling some you know, several reporters, is 1:43:31.479 --> 1:43:34.719 that you're right, he's pushing it further. It looks scarier. 1:43:34.760 --> 1:43:35.759 But part of why. 1:43:35.680 --> 1:43:39.639 It's scarier, to be quite honest, well, I think it's 1:43:39.640 --> 1:43:43.120 scarier is that he's doing it out in the open. 1:43:43.360 --> 1:43:45.640 I mean, on some level, some of this stuff like 1:43:45.800 --> 1:43:48.120 telling people to cook up crazy plans to do this 1:43:48.200 --> 1:43:50.200 that like presidents have been doing it, like you know, 1:43:50.280 --> 1:43:53.439 Nixon was Dixon. Nixon was paranoid. He was like, like, 1:43:53.479 --> 1:43:56.880 this is what presidents do, but it's not appropriate to 1:43:56.920 --> 1:44:00.519 do it in public, right, you do it behind close doors. 1:44:00.680 --> 1:44:04.360 You know, offer some plausible rational rationalization for what you're doing, 1:44:04.439 --> 1:44:06.200 and you know, you minimize it, act like there's no 1:44:06.240 --> 1:44:10.559 big deal. What's startling here is that he is out 1:44:10.560 --> 1:44:14.559 in the open expressing his designs to us, giving us 1:44:14.600 --> 1:44:17.120 the sort of thoughts. And that's very unusual. And it 1:44:17.160 --> 1:44:21.439 does show that what's acceptable from public officials is much 1:44:21.479 --> 1:44:24.760 different now because had you know, had Nixon shared his 1:44:24.840 --> 1:44:26.640 designs of the American public, he wouldn't have made it 1:44:26.640 --> 1:44:29.280 as long as he did, you know, and probably true 1:44:29.320 --> 1:44:31.200 of a lot of other presidents, they would have been gone. 1:44:31.479 --> 1:44:35.160 So what's actually acceptable as public behavior has clearly changed, 1:44:35.200 --> 1:44:40.040 what's acceptable as a policy agenda has clearly changed. And 1:44:40.120 --> 1:44:41.720 so he's just putting it out there. He's putting his 1:44:41.720 --> 1:44:43.519 dirty laundry out there, and people are like, oh, this 1:44:43.600 --> 1:44:44.080 is normal. 1:44:44.640 --> 1:44:46.800 Unless you have anything else to add, Do you want 1:44:46.800 --> 1:44:49.519 to talk about where people can find you and your writing? 1:44:50.120 --> 1:44:55.240 Yeah, I mean I'm on Blue Sky more recently, still 1:44:55.320 --> 1:44:58.519 on on Twitter. I sort of have, you know, just 1:44:58.600 --> 1:45:00.840 lots of friends on there, so I'm still there. But 1:45:01.040 --> 1:45:02.680 to me too, yeah, you know, I'm not on there 1:45:02.720 --> 1:45:04.720 as often as I used to be. You know, I 1:45:04.760 --> 1:45:07.120 give up blogging a long time ago, so, you know, 1:45:07.600 --> 1:45:09.720 as we drink out of a fire hydrant, you know, 1:45:09.760 --> 1:45:11.439 I spent a lot of time just trying to explain 1:45:11.520 --> 1:45:14.840 basic things about public education to reporters. But you can 1:45:14.840 --> 1:45:16.560 find me there. I'm a professor of law at the 1:45:16.600 --> 1:45:19.439 University of South Carolina, And like I said, you know, 1:45:19.560 --> 1:45:21.760 Dangerous Learning just came out, you know, a week or 1:45:21.800 --> 1:45:24.880 so ago, really helping us, I think, helping us to 1:45:24.920 --> 1:45:27.880 see this current moment through a long lens of war 1:45:27.960 --> 1:45:31.559 on black equality, black freedom, and to be quite honest, 1:45:31.640 --> 1:45:34.200 just free and open debate. We've had those wars before 1:45:34.360 --> 1:45:37.320 and and we scarily are having them again. 1:45:37.840 --> 1:46:00.439 All right, thank as much, Thank you, Welcome back to 1:46:00.920 --> 1:46:04.640 It could happen here. This is a daily news podcast 1:46:04.800 --> 1:46:08.360 about all of the things happening here, which is wherever 1:46:08.439 --> 1:46:11.920 you happen to be, and also the world in general. 1:46:12.160 --> 1:46:15.679 And today we are going back to talk about Gaza, 1:46:16.080 --> 1:46:19.920 particularly what has happened and changed in sort of US 1:46:19.960 --> 1:46:24.000 policy relating to Gaza, to what's going to happen as 1:46:24.439 --> 1:46:28.680 the actual combat operations wind down, to the Trump administration's 1:46:29.200 --> 1:46:34.679 so far promises to effectively ethnically cleanse the entire area 1:46:34.720 --> 1:46:37.439 and turn it into some sort of weird US satellite. 1:46:37.520 --> 1:46:41.040 And with me today is Donna el Kurd, an assistant 1:46:41.040 --> 1:46:44.439 professor of political science, guest on our episodes about bib 1:46:44.560 --> 1:46:47.640 N Yahoo over It, Behind the Bastards. Dana, thank you 1:46:47.720 --> 1:46:49.960 so much for being here with us. How are you 1:46:50.040 --> 1:46:52.559 doing today? I know that's a dumb question. I just 1:46:52.600 --> 1:46:53.920 asked you that at the start of this too. 1:46:54.320 --> 1:46:57.920 Now, thank you for having me. I think every Palestinian 1:46:58.000 --> 1:46:59.240 in the world is not doing great. 1:46:59.560 --> 1:47:00.000 Yeah. 1:47:00.120 --> 1:47:03.880 Yeah, yeah, again, like I said, a dumb question. The 1:47:03.960 --> 1:47:05.920 short story of what is happening is that Trump made 1:47:05.960 --> 1:47:09.840 an unprecedented announcement about a week ago on stage with 1:47:09.920 --> 1:47:14.040 Netan Yahoo that gazo would be that, like the Palestinian 1:47:14.080 --> 1:47:17.200 population would be forced out and not allowed to return, 1:47:17.640 --> 1:47:21.439 and it would be turned into effectively American condos. Right, 1:47:21.760 --> 1:47:24.640 Like that's I think that's essentially the gist of the 1:47:24.680 --> 1:47:27.799 initial meeting, which was met with a degree of chaos 1:47:27.840 --> 1:47:30.840 even from Israel, because I don't think anyone entirely knew 1:47:30.840 --> 1:47:32.760 exactly what Trump was going to say when he got 1:47:32.800 --> 1:47:35.439 up on that stage, which is pretty normal Trump fashion. 1:47:35.520 --> 1:47:38.599 But yeah, how would you characterize kind of the initial 1:47:38.640 --> 1:47:40.160 reaction to that announcement. 1:47:40.400 --> 1:47:44.440 Yeah, so a couple of different audiences for that announcement 1:47:44.479 --> 1:47:48.240 to begin with. For the Israeli side, I mean, what 1:47:48.320 --> 1:47:52.840 I'm hearing from analysts and people who follow Israeli politics 1:47:52.960 --> 1:47:56.599 is that this has really changed the permission structure for them. 1:47:56.720 --> 1:47:57.040 Yeah. 1:47:57.200 --> 1:48:00.719 I think you're right that didn't expect something to this degree, 1:48:01.120 --> 1:48:03.320 But now that it's been said, it's like that is 1:48:03.360 --> 1:48:06.479 the full extent of what we can expect to do right, 1:48:06.520 --> 1:48:10.080 and so I don't think a lot of people are thinking, like, 1:48:10.360 --> 1:48:14.040 for real, there's going to be a Gaza riviera. But 1:48:14.320 --> 1:48:18.080 what this does is it just expands the scope of 1:48:18.120 --> 1:48:21.960 what they think is possible for Gaza, whether it's preventing 1:48:22.560 --> 1:48:26.599 reconstruction and you know, basically keeping them in this kind 1:48:26.600 --> 1:48:32.679 of stagnant condition and allowing people to start trickling out 1:48:32.680 --> 1:48:36.160 and leaving and anybody left is considered combatant. That could 1:48:36.160 --> 1:48:39.519 be a possibility moving forward. It could cover up for 1:48:40.439 --> 1:48:44.639 more aggressive action ending the ceasefire. I mean, it's really 1:48:45.200 --> 1:48:49.080 upended the things in terms of the Israeli perspective. Yeah, 1:48:49.120 --> 1:48:51.360 and how much they've accepted it, I think. 1:48:51.360 --> 1:48:54.479 Yeah, because I mean my interpretation would be that what 1:48:54.560 --> 1:48:57.639 Trump's literal words leave the door open to everything from 1:48:58.320 --> 1:49:00.960 like you said, sort of slowly waiting for people to 1:49:00.960 --> 1:49:03.640 trickle out and not letting them back in kind of 1:49:03.640 --> 1:49:06.200 like what you saw in the Chagos Islands, or outright 1:49:06.439 --> 1:49:09.720 mass killing. You know, like there's no closed doors and 1:49:09.800 --> 1:49:13.839 Trump's plan Other than about three hours before we recorded 1:49:13.840 --> 1:49:18.040 this on Monday the tenth, a series of articles went 1:49:18.160 --> 1:49:21.360 out based on some of Trump's comments, confirming Palestinians wouldn't 1:49:21.360 --> 1:49:24.080 be allowed back into Gaza under his plan, right, the 1:49:24.120 --> 1:49:26.280 plan is for ethnic cleansing, right, Like, that's the only 1:49:26.320 --> 1:49:27.400 way to describe that. 1:49:27.680 --> 1:49:30.640 Yeah, No, it's very explicit. And I think that the 1:49:30.680 --> 1:49:34.799 way in which American allies, allied regimes in the region 1:49:34.960 --> 1:49:39.960 have reacted to this, like shows a great deal of alarm. Obviously, 1:49:40.040 --> 1:49:43.320 Jordan and Egypt, already struggling as it is with a 1:49:43.400 --> 1:49:46.240 variety of issues, don't want a bunch of Palestinians who 1:49:46.240 --> 1:49:49.639 are very politically active to be absorbed into their population. 1:49:49.960 --> 1:49:53.519 The Saudi government, you know, put out I would say, 1:49:53.520 --> 1:49:55.559 like a pretty strong statement. I mean I was. I 1:49:55.600 --> 1:49:58.400 was surprised how strong it was about how much they 1:49:58.920 --> 1:50:00.439 do not endorse such plan. 1:50:01.200 --> 1:50:04.400 So yeah, and it's interesting because Trump, in the way 1:50:04.400 --> 1:50:07.519 that he often just like says shit has I'm going 1:50:07.600 --> 1:50:10.120 to read the exact quote. I'm talking about starting to 1:50:10.120 --> 1:50:12.040 build And I think I could make a deal with Jordan. 1:50:12.120 --> 1:50:13.840 I think I can make a deal with Egypt. You know, 1:50:13.880 --> 1:50:16.080 we give them billions and billions of dollars a year, 1:50:16.640 --> 1:50:19.960 and so far Egypt and Jordan have both said no, 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:23.480 this is not something we're interested you and special Rapporteur 1:50:23.680 --> 1:50:27.439 Francesca Albanize said Trump's proposal was nonsense but has to 1:50:27.479 --> 1:50:29.720 be taken very seriously, which I actually think is a 1:50:29.760 --> 1:50:33.679 reasonably good summary of how to handle everything that he says. 1:50:33.760 --> 1:50:36.080 It's nonsense that you have to take it very seriously. 1:50:36.880 --> 1:50:39.200 I mean, the man has the nukes, as we've discussed, 1:50:39.760 --> 1:50:44.240 so yeah, I mean the way that people have reacted 1:50:44.520 --> 1:50:46.760 is obviously a great deal of alarm. And on the 1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:51.320 Palestinian side, it's like Palestinian different Palstinian political actors are 1:50:51.360 --> 1:50:54.839 bracing for, Yeah, the end of the ceasefire essentially. 1:50:55.439 --> 1:50:57.720 Yeah, I mean, that's pretty stark term to put it. 1:50:57.720 --> 1:51:00.080 And I don't know, I guess because yeah, one thing 1:51:00.120 --> 1:51:02.559 that the door is open on Israel saying, well, now 1:51:02.600 --> 1:51:05.240 that we've announced this plan and people have to get out, 1:51:05.280 --> 1:51:08.519 everyone's staying is effectively a combatant exactly. 1:51:08.640 --> 1:51:11.320 Yeah, I think that that's. Yeah, it's not you know, 1:51:11.840 --> 1:51:14.120 what we've seen over the past four hundred and seventy 1:51:14.200 --> 1:51:16.400 days up to cease fire is not that they have 1:51:16.520 --> 1:51:19.640 much respect for non combatants to begin with. Yeah, that 1:51:19.720 --> 1:51:25.320 really didn't stop them from targeting civilians, targeting children. So 1:51:25.520 --> 1:51:29.000 you can imagine now that even I mean, it's hard 1:51:29.040 --> 1:51:30.600 to even talk about it in these terms. It's not 1:51:30.640 --> 1:51:32.960 like le Bide administration was really holding them accountable either, 1:51:33.080 --> 1:51:35.920 But now again, because the permission structure has just been 1:51:35.960 --> 1:51:38.920 expanded to such a degree that we don't know what 1:51:39.000 --> 1:51:40.960 kinds of things we're going to see for people who 1:51:40.960 --> 1:51:45.120 remain in Gaza in the coming future. And obviously this 1:51:45.240 --> 1:51:51.599 derails any possibility for Palestinian and Israeli civil society actors 1:51:51.600 --> 1:51:56.240 who are trying to move beyond this particular status quo. 1:51:56.479 --> 1:52:00.799 And there's no international actor that's really empowering those efforts, 1:52:00.920 --> 1:52:03.080 and so it's really bleak. 1:52:03.680 --> 1:52:06.799 Yeah, I mean it's bleak in so many comprehensive ways. 1:52:07.200 --> 1:52:09.760 Like one thing, and not to I don't mean to 1:52:09.880 --> 1:52:12.840 like kind of take the focus off of Gaza, but 1:52:13.000 --> 1:52:16.400 this is you use the term permission structure on an 1:52:16.439 --> 1:52:20.120 international level. The US saying we are backing a forced 1:52:20.520 --> 1:52:24.559 expulsion in genocide of an entire population does change the 1:52:24.560 --> 1:52:29.639 permission structure for every international actor in terms of like 1:52:29.680 --> 1:52:32.080 a massive variety of conflicts around the world, Like this 1:52:32.240 --> 1:52:36.559 is like a sea change in international norms that so 1:52:36.600 --> 1:52:40.160 many millions of people outside of Gaza will eventually and 1:52:40.479 --> 1:52:42.559 the probably immediately be effective. 1:52:42.560 --> 1:52:46.040 By I mean, I think that there has always been 1:52:46.800 --> 1:52:51.720 gaps in what is acceptable and what is permissible under 1:52:51.760 --> 1:52:55.800 international law. Obviously that has never been applied evenly. And 1:52:55.840 --> 1:52:58.760 then if you were a particular group that didn't have 1:52:58.920 --> 1:53:02.639 American backing, for example the Armenians in Artza, it didn't 1:53:02.680 --> 1:53:04.719 matter if you were ethnically cleansed. But like you said, 1:53:04.760 --> 1:53:06.960 this just expands it to such a scope like now 1:53:07.000 --> 1:53:11.840 this is an acceptable policy solution to remove wholesale, huge populations. 1:53:12.280 --> 1:53:15.240 And when the ceasefire happened, there was an argument, and 1:53:15.320 --> 1:53:18.200 I think that this is a valid one that Palestinians 1:53:18.240 --> 1:53:20.959 the fact that they were able to in the ceasefire 1:53:21.040 --> 1:53:24.880 agreement secure their right to return even to the rubble, 1:53:25.439 --> 1:53:28.839 that was a huge obstacle to this kind of precedent, 1:53:28.960 --> 1:53:32.559 and I think Trump is now try to upend that victory, 1:53:32.680 --> 1:53:34.920 even if it's you know, in terms of a precedent 1:53:34.960 --> 1:53:37.479 set or in symbolic terms, like you said, this is 1:53:37.520 --> 1:53:41.160 now going to become how states operate. I mean, the 1:53:41.200 --> 1:53:45.200 Syrian dictator during the Syrian Civil War I think pushed 1:53:45.240 --> 1:53:47.479 the bounds of how states can operate. And this is 1:53:47.520 --> 1:53:48.160 another level. 1:53:48.600 --> 1:53:51.960 Yeah, well, and I think that this is an I 1:53:52.000 --> 1:53:53.720 want to kind of zero back in on Gaza in 1:53:53.760 --> 1:53:56.120 a second, but I really do. I think that that 1:53:56.360 --> 1:53:59.400 broader point that you just make can't be made enough, 1:53:59.760 --> 1:54:02.080 not just the centrality of Syria, but the idea that 1:54:02.600 --> 1:54:05.559 when on the international stage the leader of a country 1:54:05.600 --> 1:54:09.799 is allowed to do force displacements through massive aerial bombing, 1:54:10.360 --> 1:54:13.120 Like there's this idea that you can just be like, well, 1:54:13.120 --> 1:54:15.760 that's just Syria, right, It's never just Syria, just like 1:54:15.800 --> 1:54:18.880 it's never just Gaza. You know, these things metastasize. You 1:54:18.960 --> 1:54:20.640 have to view that those kind of actions in the 1:54:20.680 --> 1:54:22.240 international stage like a cancer. 1:54:22.720 --> 1:54:22.920 Right. 1:54:23.000 --> 1:54:23.040 No. 1:54:23.160 --> 1:54:27.879 Absolutely. There was a Syrian activist and political writer, yasinl Hrsala, 1:54:27.960 --> 1:54:30.559 who said, the Syrianization of the world. Yeah, and we're 1:54:30.560 --> 1:54:32.640 seeing the gasification of the world. We will see the 1:54:32.640 --> 1:54:35.240 gassification of the world. Yeah, and that's very, very dangerous 1:54:35.280 --> 1:54:36.200 for everybody involved. 1:54:36.440 --> 1:54:40.000 Yeah, that can't be overstated. A chill kind of goes 1:54:40.040 --> 1:54:43.240 down my spine thinking about that and thinking about that quote, 1:54:43.600 --> 1:54:46.240 which makes this a very bad time to throw to ads. 1:54:46.320 --> 1:54:48.400 But that's what I'm going to do. Then we're going 1:54:48.480 --> 1:55:00.440 to come back and we're going to talk about b mining. 1:55:00.960 --> 1:55:04.880 We're back so to zero Beckon on Gaza. Obviously, one 1:55:04.880 --> 1:55:06.960 thing that comes up when Trump talks about this plan 1:55:07.200 --> 1:55:09.960 that is an actual thing that would have to be 1:55:10.000 --> 1:55:11.840 dealt with one way or the other, is that huge 1:55:11.920 --> 1:55:14.640 chunks of Gaza are uninhabitable right now and will be 1:55:14.680 --> 1:55:17.080 for the foreseeable future because of the sheer quantity of 1:55:17.200 --> 1:55:20.480 munitions dispensed. A number of munitions that have been used 1:55:20.480 --> 1:55:23.920 in Gaza are cluster munitions, but even munitions that are 1:55:23.960 --> 1:55:28.800 not cluster munitions, when you're dropping bombs on particularly dense 1:55:28.880 --> 1:55:31.920 urban targets, there's a wide variety of things that can 1:55:31.960 --> 1:55:34.080 happen to those munitions on their way to their target, 1:55:34.160 --> 1:55:37.160 including them getting deflected by debris, them getting deflected by 1:55:37.160 --> 1:55:39.840 pieces of metal and rebar and the like that damages 1:55:40.360 --> 1:55:43.600 the device and stops it from detonating but leaves it 1:55:43.640 --> 1:55:46.480 still in an active state. And the estimate I'm seeing 1:55:46.480 --> 1:55:49.160 for munitions used in Gaza is about ten percent of 1:55:49.200 --> 1:55:51.240 the munitions, and there's no way of knowing how many 1:55:51.280 --> 1:55:54.120 have been dropped, but estimates are at least thirty thousand 1:55:54.160 --> 1:56:01.080 in the first seventy days I think weeks sorry much 1:56:01.160 --> 1:56:03.600 less than seventy days, nearly thirty thousand munitions in the 1:56:03.640 --> 1:56:06.640 first seven weeks of the war, so a huge number, 1:56:06.680 --> 1:56:10.120 about ten percent at least, are still active and live. 1:56:10.320 --> 1:56:13.240 And you know, for an idea of how long it 1:56:13.440 --> 1:56:16.360 takes to d mine and render an area safe for 1:56:16.520 --> 1:56:18.960 munitions like this, there are still people who die in 1:56:18.960 --> 1:56:21.560 France from wor World War One munitions, you know, up 1:56:21.640 --> 1:56:24.960 to the present day in twenty twenty five. So this 1:56:25.120 --> 1:56:28.120 is a massive problem. In the best case scenario, something 1:56:28.160 --> 1:56:30.800 has to be done with these munitions. This is something 1:56:30.800 --> 1:56:33.000 that Trump has been bringing up and when talking about 1:56:33.040 --> 1:56:35.160 like his desire to clear people out of their d 1:56:35.360 --> 1:56:40.120 mine and then rebuild effectively what sounds almost like a 1:56:40.200 --> 1:56:44.000 vacation colony right for the United States. And one of 1:56:44.000 --> 1:56:46.480 the issues just with any sort of practical sort of 1:56:46.480 --> 1:56:50.240 effect with D mining is that USAID has been gutted 1:56:50.280 --> 1:56:53.080 as an agency, and that's the agency through which D 1:56:53.240 --> 1:56:56.600 mining was done. We've spent billions of dollars, put billions 1:56:56.600 --> 1:56:59.560 of dollars into D mining around the world through USAID. 1:56:59.800 --> 1:57:03.120 The US military is actually not allowed by our laws 1:57:03.160 --> 1:57:06.880 to do D mining operations. There's a complicated history there, 1:57:06.920 --> 1:57:09.760 but like so we both got this situation where the 1:57:09.960 --> 1:57:13.800 proposed justification for pushing the population out is, well, it's 1:57:13.840 --> 1:57:15.760 not safe to be there, we have to determine it. 1:57:15.800 --> 1:57:18.800 And also we have created a situation in which the 1:57:18.960 --> 1:57:21.600 organizations that do d mining can't do it anymore. 1:57:22.600 --> 1:57:26.040 Yeah, and I think those same organizations asked for like 1:57:26.080 --> 1:57:30.160 an exception to the stop work order and were denied 1:57:30.160 --> 1:57:32.640 by the State Department. And yep, no, you know, no 1:57:32.720 --> 1:57:35.320 explanations were given. And so I mean it's it's obviously 1:57:36.120 --> 1:57:39.120 a fig leaf. Yeah, it's obviously an excuse, like this 1:57:39.160 --> 1:57:43.000 has nothing to do with bettering conditions in Gaza. And 1:57:43.040 --> 1:57:45.880 I the fact that he's gone back and clarified and 1:57:45.960 --> 1:57:48.240 has been asked the number of times, including last night 1:57:48.280 --> 1:57:50.720 after the super Bowl or something, and he said no, no, 1:57:50.760 --> 1:57:53.680 they won't be allowed to return. Yeah, well, all right, 1:57:53.840 --> 1:57:56.160 what are you demining? You really think you're going to 1:57:56.200 --> 1:57:57.480 build hotels? 1:57:57.800 --> 1:57:58.600 Yeah. 1:57:58.800 --> 1:58:03.040 My understanding is like people in the administration were also 1:58:03.120 --> 1:58:08.320 surprised by this tack of reasoning. So I wonder who's 1:58:08.360 --> 1:58:11.240 fed him this idea, Like, who's given him this idea 1:58:11.280 --> 1:58:13.160 that he's going to be able to build hotels. 1:58:13.160 --> 1:58:18.680 Here my understanding, based on reading don't have any inns 1:58:18.680 --> 1:58:21.720 in the Trump administration. But the reporting I've seen suggested 1:58:21.800 --> 1:58:24.360 came from Kushner that like a year or so ago, 1:58:24.400 --> 1:58:26.160 he was talking, I have been talking about this like 1:58:26.240 --> 1:58:28.320 this is great, you know, a great place to build 1:58:28.320 --> 1:58:31.200 a condo. It's beautiful, you know, wonderful weather. I mean, 1:58:31.240 --> 1:58:33.200 we know just from the past. That is kind of 1:58:33.200 --> 1:58:36.320 how Trump works is somebody people tell him a lot 1:58:36.360 --> 1:58:39.240 of shit, but something sticks in his brain and that, 1:58:39.360 --> 1:58:42.320 like with the Greenland shit can become US policy. And 1:58:42.320 --> 1:58:44.000 that appears to be I mean, as best as I 1:58:44.040 --> 1:58:45.360 can tell, that's the origin of this. 1:58:45.720 --> 1:58:49.080 It's just like the grift can really stick in his mind. 1:58:49.200 --> 1:58:52.560 He's really good at holding onto possibilities for grifting. 1:58:52.920 --> 1:58:56.640 Yeah, the fact that you are doing a genocide in 1:58:56.800 --> 1:59:00.680 order to clear land for condos doesn't make it less 1:59:00.680 --> 1:59:03.920 of a genocide, but it is like a justification for genocide. 1:59:03.960 --> 1:59:07.240 I don't think i've heard a country's leader make before, right. 1:59:07.360 --> 1:59:09.800 I mean, parts of this are familiar and go back, 1:59:09.880 --> 1:59:11.640 you know, even to the Iraq War in terms of 1:59:11.760 --> 1:59:14.160 US Paul and further back right, like what is kind 1:59:14.200 --> 1:59:16.480 of the core of US support of Israel as our 1:59:16.520 --> 1:59:20.240 desire to have a stable territory within the Middle East 1:59:20.240 --> 1:59:23.600 from where we can project power, right, So, to that extent, 1:59:23.720 --> 1:59:27.640 this is like a natural expression of US policy for 1:59:27.720 --> 1:59:29.600 decades in the area, Like, well, what if we just 1:59:29.680 --> 1:59:32.760 take this for ourselves and then we have this stable 1:59:32.800 --> 1:59:35.720 platform from where we can airstrike whoever the hell we want, 1:59:36.280 --> 1:59:38.600 and also Jared Kushner can have his condos. 1:59:39.880 --> 1:59:42.960 Yeah, I mean the thing is they can. They can 1:59:43.000 --> 1:59:46.920 achieve and have already been able to maintain American hegemony 1:59:46.960 --> 1:59:50.320 with all sorts of bases across the Middle East some secrets, 1:59:50.360 --> 1:59:54.040 I'm not, Yeah, cultar like it's it's this is I 1:59:54.040 --> 1:59:57.280 think this is another level where it's like American andgemony 1:59:57.320 --> 2:00:00.720 is tangential to Jared Kushner making money. So it's an 2:00:00.760 --> 2:00:05.320 interesting little I've never seen a hedgemon kind of shoot 2:00:05.360 --> 2:00:09.160 itself in the foot in this direction to this degree. 2:00:09.640 --> 2:00:12.200 Yeah, I don't want the focus to be on the 2:00:12.320 --> 2:00:15.400 danger to Americans from this, but this is extremely dangerous 2:00:15.400 --> 2:00:18.760 for Americans too, right, Like having your country openly back 2:00:19.040 --> 2:00:22.720 a genocide to this extent, like not just even arming it, 2:00:22.760 --> 2:00:25.640 but saying like we are specifically going to build, like 2:00:25.800 --> 2:00:29.080 take this land and profit off of it is such 2:00:29.080 --> 2:00:33.640 as it so comprehensively escalates everything on an international scale, 2:00:34.200 --> 2:00:36.120 Like I don't even, I can't even. I can't think 2:00:36.120 --> 2:00:38.760 of a single decision that's this reckless that's been made 2:00:38.760 --> 2:00:43.520 in my lifetime by American politicians other than the Iraq War, right. 2:00:43.400 --> 2:00:45.960 And that was I think maybe the first nail in 2:00:46.000 --> 2:00:49.520 the confine. And we're reaching the last nails in the coffin. 2:00:50.000 --> 2:00:51.880 Yeah, yeah, well the coffin's almost done. 2:00:52.040 --> 2:00:57.160 It's almost done. We're dismantling the whatever remnants of the 2:00:57.160 --> 2:01:01.360 international order used to exist, and it's really going to 2:01:01.400 --> 2:01:02.160 be a free fall. 2:01:02.680 --> 2:01:03.120 Yeah. 2:01:03.400 --> 2:01:05.200 I don't know what more to say on that. I 2:01:05.200 --> 2:01:08.400 guess kind of one thing we should get into is 2:01:09.240 --> 2:01:11.920 what we're seeing in terms of the Trump administration and 2:01:12.240 --> 2:01:14.880 pro Palestine protests in the United States. Obviously, last night 2:01:14.920 --> 2:01:18.280 at the Super Bowl, we had a moment where a 2:01:18.360 --> 2:01:21.760 member of Kendrick Lamar's the performance crew on the ground. 2:01:21.760 --> 2:01:23.320 I think it was one of his dancers. As far 2:01:23.360 --> 2:01:25.440 as I can tell them, I don't believe the individual 2:01:25.480 --> 2:01:27.120 has been named yet. Maybe I missed that. 2:01:27.600 --> 2:01:30.200 I think somebody has released his name. I took to intercept. 2:01:30.480 --> 2:01:33.480 Okay, well, I don't feel specifically a need to do that, 2:01:33.680 --> 2:01:36.160 but an individual who was a part of that was 2:01:36.200 --> 2:01:38.880 standing on like one of the cars that was on 2:01:39.280 --> 2:01:42.840 stage that Kendrick had been dancing on, unfurled a Palestine 2:01:43.000 --> 2:01:46.960 and Sudan flag is a fairly small, like a couple 2:01:47.000 --> 2:01:49.760 of feet wide, couple of feet deep, so like not 2:01:49.840 --> 2:01:52.200 like a mask, certainly not a destructive act, but like, 2:01:52.720 --> 2:01:55.200 not only did that person get like banned for life 2:01:55.240 --> 2:01:58.840 from all sort of NFL events and performing or attending them, 2:01:59.280 --> 2:02:03.320 which I suppose was not super shocking, but there were 2:02:03.320 --> 2:02:07.320 immediate announcements by New Orleans Police that they are trying 2:02:07.360 --> 2:02:10.240 to figure out what to charge this person under, which, 2:02:10.360 --> 2:02:13.720 like I tell me what kind of crime that is? 2:02:14.120 --> 2:02:16.080 You know, I mean, it's not like he even invaded 2:02:16.120 --> 2:02:18.720 the pitch, right, like he's it was like to be 2:02:18.800 --> 2:02:19.280 an actor. 2:02:19.520 --> 2:02:20.800 Yeah, he did a thing. 2:02:20.840 --> 2:02:23.360 I think that wasn't part of the script, I assume, 2:02:23.560 --> 2:02:26.680 but like, I don't know how you even charged him. Yeah, 2:02:26.840 --> 2:02:29.560 I don't think charges are out yet, right, but they're 2:02:29.600 --> 2:02:32.960 going to find something to do, which is also going 2:02:33.000 --> 2:02:35.800 to set a precedent, right because this is nothing. This 2:02:36.160 --> 2:02:37.880 person was not in a place they weren't allowed to 2:02:37.880 --> 2:02:41.080 be this person didn't damage any property they held a 2:02:41.160 --> 2:02:44.280 thing like that's the definition of protected speech. You know, 2:02:44.680 --> 2:02:47.080 if you're their employer, you can fire them for that, 2:02:47.400 --> 2:02:50.120 but you can't charge them criminally for that. 2:02:50.920 --> 2:02:53.360 I mean they wanted to make an example. They and 2:02:53.400 --> 2:02:55.840 we'll see what kind of example that they try to 2:02:55.840 --> 2:02:58.480 make out of this person. And it like, like you said, 2:02:58.480 --> 2:03:03.440 it's really in line with Trump, the Trump administration taking 2:03:03.480 --> 2:03:09.080 aggressive action against any forms of dissent around American foreign policy. 2:03:09.120 --> 2:03:11.840 That is obviously, as we've mentioned, like very tied up 2:03:12.320 --> 2:03:17.080 with the genocide that unfolded. And so it's these executive 2:03:17.120 --> 2:03:21.400 orders around deporting international students, it's executive orders around like 2:03:21.520 --> 2:03:26.600 expanded understandings of anti semitism and the ideas. Even if 2:03:26.600 --> 2:03:30.800 you don't go after everybody, you're making an example enough 2:03:30.840 --> 2:03:34.560 that like you're chilling people's abilities to engage, whether it's 2:03:34.560 --> 2:03:38.560 on campuses or you know, off campuses, and so it's 2:03:38.680 --> 2:03:41.520 it's definitely I can tell you from like the academic perspective, 2:03:41.640 --> 2:03:46.800 like a number of disciplinary organizations and and and like 2:03:46.920 --> 2:03:50.400 mile Ease Studies Association and things like this, like they're 2:03:50.480 --> 2:03:53.040 they're very concerned, like this is a very concerning moment. 2:03:53.400 --> 2:03:55.880 Yeah, I want to kind of dig into that a 2:03:55.960 --> 2:03:59.320 little bit more and will continue our conversation. I've got 2:03:59.360 --> 2:04:01.760 to throw to Adds one last time and then we'll 2:04:01.800 --> 2:04:14.920 be back. We're back, Dana. Yeah, we're just talking about 2:04:14.960 --> 2:04:17.360 kind of the chilling effects this has had as an academic. 2:04:18.080 --> 2:04:19.640 Do you want to talk a little bit about what 2:04:19.720 --> 2:04:22.800 you've experienced so far and what you think kind of 2:04:22.880 --> 2:04:25.960 needs to be the response to this attempt to chill 2:04:26.040 --> 2:04:29.800 any kind of protected speech in favor of Palestine or 2:04:29.840 --> 2:04:32.520 not even in favor that's the wrong way to put it. Yeah, 2:04:32.600 --> 2:04:35.080 discussing the reality of the genocide. 2:04:35.160 --> 2:04:37.800 Yeah, I mean that's the thing is, like they have 2:04:38.040 --> 2:04:43.600 not They've conflated Yeah, any any attempt to give information 2:04:44.280 --> 2:04:47.600 with advocacy. Yes, so there's that conflation. But then, of 2:04:47.600 --> 2:04:50.480 course advocacy in and of itself is protected. Yes, you're 2:04:50.520 --> 2:04:53.200 certainly allowed to advocate if you're a student or things, 2:04:53.320 --> 2:04:55.240 or you know, a citizen in the world, like of course, 2:04:55.560 --> 2:04:58.440 so there is that conflation. And I will say that, like, 2:04:59.000 --> 2:05:03.839 we're seeing attacks on academic freedom, and we're seeing attacks 2:05:03.840 --> 2:05:07.000 on freedom of speech and freedom of assembly on academic campuses, 2:05:07.280 --> 2:05:10.640 both in public institutions, that have to uphold public laws 2:05:10.720 --> 2:05:13.600 and also in private institutions that have paid lip service 2:05:13.640 --> 2:05:17.320 to things like free speech and are now ignoring that 2:05:17.480 --> 2:05:20.560 commitment in the past. And so we've seen even tenured 2:05:20.560 --> 2:05:23.800 professors like what happened in Nihlenberg College, like tenured professors 2:05:24.200 --> 2:05:28.480 being targeted losing their jobs. And I can say that 2:05:28.800 --> 2:05:32.960 this has really activated organizations like the American Association of 2:05:33.040 --> 2:05:36.840 University Professors, the AAUP, the Middle East Studies Association as well. 2:05:36.840 --> 2:05:40.960 Their Committee on Academic Freedom has been working to collect 2:05:41.040 --> 2:05:45.160 data on how this has impacted people's abilities to engage 2:05:45.160 --> 2:05:47.000 on the issue of Israel Palast that even in their 2:05:47.000 --> 2:05:49.600 research or teaching. And then there was a study by 2:05:49.640 --> 2:05:53.720 two professors Mark Lynch and Shibity Tidhemi George Washington and 2:05:54.400 --> 2:05:57.760 University of Maryland respectively that found something like over ninety 2:05:57.800 --> 2:06:02.120 percent of professors who teach on the Middle East are 2:06:02.160 --> 2:06:05.320 self censoring Jesus. And it's not because they're out in 2:06:05.440 --> 2:06:09.919 front of the classroom giving a crap about giving their opinion. 2:06:10.120 --> 2:06:11.080 Yeah, I can tell. 2:06:10.960 --> 2:06:15.480 You none of us want to change anybody's minds about this. 2:06:15.680 --> 2:06:19.040 It's like they're literally just self censoring the content. Yeah, 2:06:19.120 --> 2:06:23.000 like we're just afraid to even address what happened, what's 2:06:23.040 --> 2:06:27.040 happening in a historical context, or you know, teaching a 2:06:27.200 --> 2:06:30.080 course on Israel Palestine or any of those kinds of 2:06:30.120 --> 2:06:32.640 things is now completely under the microscope. 2:06:32.920 --> 2:06:34.800 And this is all part of the whole kind of 2:06:34.960 --> 2:06:39.680 authoritarian chilling effect of any ability to express anything outside 2:06:39.680 --> 2:06:42.320 of like what the regimes can that you live under 2:06:42.440 --> 2:06:47.400 considers acceptable, you know, And it always starts with these well, 2:06:47.480 --> 2:06:49.960 you know, if we talk about Palistine and what's happening there, 2:06:50.000 --> 2:06:52.920 then maybe this department will get you know, its funding cut, 2:06:52.960 --> 2:06:54.960 and we won't be able to talk about anything. So really, 2:06:55.000 --> 2:06:57.960 this is the same decision a lot of hospitals are 2:06:57.960 --> 2:07:00.880 making around like the treatment for trade and skill wealth. 2:07:01.560 --> 2:07:03.280 We'll lose our funding if we do this, and we 2:07:03.320 --> 2:07:07.040 do all these other good things. But they never stop, right, like, 2:07:07.120 --> 2:07:09.960 you never actually are safe. There's no point at which 2:07:09.960 --> 2:07:13.880 these people say it's enough. They take your ability to 2:07:14.000 --> 2:07:16.320 talk about or to act in one way away, and 2:07:16.360 --> 2:07:18.320 then they take it in a way in another, and 2:07:18.360 --> 2:07:21.839 they keep taking, you know, until you make a stand, 2:07:21.920 --> 2:07:24.000 and you might as well make a stand the first 2:07:24.040 --> 2:07:26.320 time they start trying to take shit from you, otherwise 2:07:26.320 --> 2:07:28.720 you're going to get backed even further into a fucking corner. 2:07:28.880 --> 2:07:32.560 Yeah, there has to be institutions and leadership at these 2:07:32.560 --> 2:07:37.320 institutions holding a line because this kind of preemptive obedience 2:07:37.880 --> 2:07:41.400 hasn't served them and it's not going to change. Fundamentally, 2:07:41.440 --> 2:07:47.320 the fact that this administration sees academic knowledge production as 2:07:47.600 --> 2:07:50.920 a political landscape they need to control. And see, I 2:07:50.920 --> 2:07:53.960 mean Jadvan says it like professors are the enemy. Yeah, 2:07:54.040 --> 2:07:56.400 so what are you doing trying to placate you know, 2:07:56.520 --> 2:07:59.280 it's like you're just giving them an easier time. 2:07:59.480 --> 2:07:59.560 No. 2:08:00.240 --> 2:08:03.800 Yeah, Through the use of funding and their ability to 2:08:03.880 --> 2:08:07.240 kind of gin up outrage in media, groups like APEC 2:08:07.280 --> 2:08:10.680 have effectively blasted a salient in free speech in this 2:08:10.760 --> 2:08:15.400 country where you really you almost can't talk about Palestine 2:08:15.440 --> 2:08:20.000 and you certainly can't acknowledge what Israel is doing, right, 2:08:20.080 --> 2:08:22.520 You can't say it stayed in plane terms like we 2:08:22.560 --> 2:08:25.480 are watching a genocide be at least attempted here, right, 2:08:25.840 --> 2:08:28.520 And if you do that, there are huge consequences to 2:08:28.640 --> 2:08:32.600 most people in traditional organizations, particularly professors, which is always 2:08:32.640 --> 2:08:36.760 where it starts. And yeah, that salient is just going 2:08:36.800 --> 2:08:39.640 to get whiter and whiter and whiter, right, like that 2:08:40.120 --> 2:08:42.080 that's the way this stuff works. 2:08:42.680 --> 2:08:46.520 Yeah, yeah, I mean this is not a new argument, 2:08:46.600 --> 2:08:50.360 but it's like the ways in which the United States 2:08:50.440 --> 2:08:54.120 has engaged abroad. It's very much boomeranging home, you know. 2:08:54.840 --> 2:08:57.120 And so it's not about, like you said, it's not 2:08:57.160 --> 2:08:59.760 just about Palestine. It's not about people who studied Palestine 2:08:59.760 --> 2:09:03.520 are each about Israel Palestine. It's so much broader than that. 2:09:03.600 --> 2:09:06.840 The precedent that is being set, and what is like 2:09:06.920 --> 2:09:09.280 kind of a silver lining is that the last year 2:09:09.280 --> 2:09:12.160 of the Biden administration, the last year plus of the 2:09:12.160 --> 2:09:15.440 Biden administration, and then even now, I think at least 2:09:15.440 --> 2:09:18.200 it has helped people connect the dots a little bit, 2:09:18.960 --> 2:09:21.720 like this is not an issue in isolation, and just 2:09:21.760 --> 2:09:23.680 because you don't happen to work on it doesn't mean 2:09:23.680 --> 2:09:28.160 that you're safe from people meddling in your syllabi or 2:09:29.240 --> 2:09:33.440 chilling your speech on other issues, whether it's trans rights, 2:09:33.560 --> 2:09:38.560 whether it's you know, reproductive rights, whatever issue. If you 2:09:38.600 --> 2:09:41.360 don't toe the line, they're going to come for you too, right, 2:09:41.760 --> 2:09:45.120 And so I think that at least I've seen folks 2:09:45.200 --> 2:09:48.360 who are not who have never been, you know, activated 2:09:48.360 --> 2:09:50.720 on the issue of Israel Palestine, whether in their advocacy 2:09:50.800 --> 2:09:54.120 or in their research, they're making that connection at least, 2:09:54.240 --> 2:09:56.880 and maybe that's a silver lining that I'm trying to 2:09:56.880 --> 2:09:57.600 be less bleak here. 2:09:57.680 --> 2:09:59.400 Yeah, yeah, I think that's helpful. 2:10:00.000 --> 2:10:02.560 You know, when I think about the hypocrisy of this moment, 2:10:02.920 --> 2:10:06.280 I think about how much of the clamping down on speech, 2:10:06.320 --> 2:10:09.160 particularly the attempt to punish like student protesters in the 2:10:09.280 --> 2:10:14.400 United States, is predicated on accusing them of backing HAMAS, right, 2:10:14.760 --> 2:10:16.920 And it's so interesting to me because, like, you know, 2:10:17.000 --> 2:10:21.480 obviously I don't think Hamas is a good organization, but 2:10:21.680 --> 2:10:23.960 neither is the IRA, and the former President of the 2:10:24.040 --> 2:10:27.440 United States, Joe Biden, made pro IRA statements, right, Like 2:10:27.680 --> 2:10:30.280 one thing is okay and the other is not. I 2:10:30.280 --> 2:10:34.040 don't know. I find it incredibly frustrating that like there's 2:10:34.080 --> 2:10:38.000 this pretended act that like, because you've got some people 2:10:38.040 --> 2:10:39.960 on one side who have made statements in favor of 2:10:40.000 --> 2:10:43.360 this group, that sucks that that is a reason for 2:10:43.440 --> 2:10:46.680 cracking down on the ability of people to talk about 2:10:46.800 --> 2:10:50.920 a genocide. Like it's it's just this hideous hypocrisy that 2:10:51.000 --> 2:10:53.640 I don't even understand how like people can keep that 2:10:53.680 --> 2:10:55.720 consistent in their own heads. But they don't need to, right, 2:10:55.800 --> 2:10:57.320 That's always the thing with fascists. 2:10:57.400 --> 2:11:00.440 No, there's no need for consistency. Yeah, yeah, I mean 2:11:00.560 --> 2:11:03.040 that's the thing. Is like, first of all, the conflation 2:11:03.280 --> 2:11:06.920 that like the entire movement made such a statement or 2:11:07.000 --> 2:11:09.240 you know, I mean obviously that that in and of 2:11:09.280 --> 2:11:12.760 itself is dishonest. And like you said, it's not that 2:11:12.760 --> 2:11:15.160 they care about consistency and they don't have to maintain 2:11:15.440 --> 2:11:19.600 an honest approach to this. They're just using these isolated 2:11:19.720 --> 2:11:25.640 incidents of particular you know, particular students or particular groups 2:11:26.280 --> 2:11:31.520 to shut down any speech around it. And I was 2:11:31.720 --> 2:11:36.080 featured in this like Vox video and it was just 2:11:36.120 --> 2:11:41.000 like an explainer, and I received some harassment and like 2:11:41.560 --> 2:11:45.720 accusations that because I was providing context in a Vox video, 2:11:45.920 --> 2:11:47.760 which is what I was asked to do based on 2:11:47.840 --> 2:11:52.880 my expertise, that I was making excuses for, you know, 2:11:52.880 --> 2:11:54.680 what had happened on October seventh. And I was like, 2:11:55.000 --> 2:11:58.120 is the red line now? Just even discussing anything like 2:11:58.720 --> 2:12:01.520 with any kind of expert tease or information like it's 2:12:01.560 --> 2:12:03.000 it's uh, yeah, it's mind boggling. 2:12:03.040 --> 2:12:05.120 I mean, I guess I think that is what they 2:12:05.160 --> 2:12:08.360 want to make thee Yeah. Yeah, what you went through 2:12:08.400 --> 2:12:10.320 there too makes me so angry when I read shit 2:12:10.480 --> 2:12:14.040 like and this is not on Gillibrand, but Christin Gillibrand 2:12:14.120 --> 2:12:17.280 was on someone's podcast recently talking about why some of 2:12:17.280 --> 2:12:20.480 her Republican colleagues who had expressed opposition to some of 2:12:20.520 --> 2:12:23.280 Trump's picks ultimately voted for them. And she's like, they're 2:12:23.280 --> 2:12:27.160 scared of getting murdered, and like, isn't everyone who says anything, 2:12:27.320 --> 2:12:29.720 and like you've got death threats for a vox video, 2:12:29.960 --> 2:12:32.520 Like why are these Congress people who have so many 2:12:32.560 --> 2:12:34.600 more resources to protect themselves, why do they get to 2:12:34.600 --> 2:12:35.080 be scared? 2:12:35.280 --> 2:12:38.360 Oh well that's that's yeah, Congress, And it's and it's 2:12:38.640 --> 2:12:42.160 inability to do anything, Like yeah, that's that's a whole 2:12:42.240 --> 2:12:44.480 other level of demoralization. 2:12:44.840 --> 2:12:46.720 Yeah, is there anything else you wanted to make sure 2:12:46.760 --> 2:12:49.120 we hit on during this conversation before we sort of 2:12:49.160 --> 2:12:49.920 close things out. 2:12:50.160 --> 2:12:52.080 I'm not sure if maybe this is two in the weeds, 2:12:52.120 --> 2:12:54.680 but I think there's been a lot discussed around Trump 2:12:54.720 --> 2:12:57.520 and the statements around Gaza and his and his supposed 2:12:57.560 --> 2:13:00.440 plans for Gaza, and some analysts have claimed that this 2:13:00.480 --> 2:13:03.320 has to do with like taking an extreme position, so 2:13:03.360 --> 2:13:07.520 that then Arab Israeli normalization deals could make the claim that, 2:13:07.600 --> 2:13:10.280 like we talked him down from this brink, yeah, and 2:13:10.360 --> 2:13:13.400 like Saudi is going to make peace with Israel and 2:13:13.560 --> 2:13:16.720 claim that we convinced Trump not to do this kind 2:13:16.760 --> 2:13:21.680 of thing. And so that's been something I've read in 2:13:21.720 --> 2:13:25.240 some analysis, and I don't think it's actually correct. I 2:13:25.280 --> 2:13:28.520 don't think that Trump is making these kinds of statements 2:13:28.640 --> 2:13:31.800 or possibly these kinds of plans, just as kind of 2:13:31.880 --> 2:13:35.040 like I don't know, multi level chess with Saudi Arabia 2:13:35.080 --> 2:13:37.400 to get them to sign a peace deal with Israel, 2:13:37.760 --> 2:13:40.680 and the conditions in the region I think have really shifted. 2:13:40.680 --> 2:13:42.920 And I don't think Saudi Arabia, as I mentioned at 2:13:42.920 --> 2:13:46.440 the beginning, because they put out statements to this effect, 2:13:46.200 --> 2:13:48.720 I don't think they're at all interested in this kind 2:13:48.760 --> 2:13:52.360 of move right at this point. So I just maybe 2:13:52.400 --> 2:13:54.560 I would only add that Trump is not playing this 2:13:54.680 --> 2:13:56.400 long game that we think he is. Maybe we can 2:13:56.400 --> 2:13:57.280 take him at his word. 2:13:57.920 --> 2:14:01.080 Yeah, No, I know, because like Biden was playing a 2:14:01.160 --> 2:14:03.440 long game, a dumb long game, but a long game 2:14:03.520 --> 2:14:07.360 trying to brokers deal with like Saudi Arabia and Israel 2:14:07.520 --> 2:14:11.919 that I'm again I think deranged. If there's clear evidence 2:14:11.960 --> 2:14:15.680 that the fact that he was not compassmentous, it's that right. 2:14:16.160 --> 2:14:18.640 But it was a long game, and I don't think 2:14:18.720 --> 2:14:22.000 that Trump is I don't think Trump cares about that. 2:14:22.520 --> 2:14:24.840 Yeah, and the region has changed so much, you know, 2:14:24.920 --> 2:14:26.680 for whether we like it or not, Like Iran is 2:14:26.680 --> 2:14:29.080 not the threat it used to be, closer ties with 2:14:29.080 --> 2:14:33.480 Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia, I mean, has a huge influence 2:14:33.520 --> 2:14:35.960 on the new Syrian government, Like they don't need this, 2:14:36.040 --> 2:14:38.200 they don't need this, and like this is not this 2:14:38.320 --> 2:14:43.120 kind of long game, multi level chess, you know, mastermind 2:14:43.120 --> 2:14:45.440 over here that Trump is now doing. So yeah, I 2:14:45.440 --> 2:14:46.320 just wanted to add that. 2:14:46.400 --> 2:14:49.200 People are just doing shit and trying to grab onto 2:14:49.200 --> 2:14:50.120 whatever they can. 2:14:50.280 --> 2:14:52.760 Right and like let's see what sticks, essentially. 2:14:52.600 --> 2:14:54.920 Exactly I mean, and that is so much of that 2:14:55.000 --> 2:14:58.520 is the entirety of the current plan of the new 2:14:58.520 --> 2:15:01.200 regime in the United States is row everything you can 2:15:01.320 --> 2:15:02.720 out there and see what sticks. 2:15:02.960 --> 2:15:03.160 You know. 2:15:03.640 --> 2:15:05.800 Yeah, they're doing that in Gaza, just like they're doing 2:15:05.800 --> 2:15:09.480 it everywhere else. Well, Donna, thank you so much. Do 2:15:09.520 --> 2:15:11.360 you want to plug anything at the end of this 2:15:11.640 --> 2:15:13.320 your own stuff or something else. 2:15:13.600 --> 2:15:16.520 Check out I Guess The Fire These Times podcast. I 2:15:16.560 --> 2:15:17.840 sometimes do episode for. 2:15:17.800 --> 2:15:19.320 Them, Yes, yes, yes, yes. 2:15:19.560 --> 2:15:22.920 And if you're looking for organizations to help support gosins 2:15:23.000 --> 2:15:26.080 right now, Heal Palestine or a nara A n E 2:15:26.320 --> 2:15:28.720 r A are both doing really crucial work. 2:15:29.000 --> 2:15:31.400 Excellent, excellent, We'll check that out. Definitely check out The 2:15:31.400 --> 2:15:34.600 Fire These Times and that's a great place to send 2:15:34.640 --> 2:15:36.880 some aid. Donna, thank you so much for being on 2:15:37.080 --> 2:15:39.600 the show again. And yeah, I hope you Uh, I 2:15:39.600 --> 2:15:42.720 don't know, I hope, I hope. 2:15:43.440 --> 2:15:44.640 I hope that's what I got. 2:15:44.840 --> 2:15:45.080 Hope. 2:15:45.480 --> 2:15:46.879 Yeah, yeah, thanks. 2:15:46.640 --> 2:15:47.240 For having. 2:16:12.720 --> 2:16:15.360 Welcome to the Birds and the Bees, a podcast where 2:16:15.480 --> 2:16:19.160 James Stout makes animal noises and also we talk about 2:16:19.200 --> 2:16:21.880 what's going on in the White House this week. 2:16:22.040 --> 2:16:24.960 That's right, this is it could happen here Executive Disorder, 2:16:25.000 --> 2:16:27.240 our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, 2:16:27.520 --> 2:16:30.680 the crumbling of our world, and what this means for you. 2:16:30.880 --> 2:16:34.160 That is Robert talking previously. James Stout is also here. 2:16:34.440 --> 2:16:37.480 I'm Garrison Davis. I'm also joined by Mia Wong. This episode, 2:16:37.480 --> 2:16:41.240 we're covering the week of February sixth to February twelfth. Currently, 2:16:41.480 --> 2:16:45.680 ME and Mia are inside New Orleans, Louisiana, and I 2:16:45.720 --> 2:16:48.640 am proud to report that fascism has been defeated. The 2:16:48.680 --> 2:16:52.080 Philadelphia Eagles have beat the KK Kansas City Chiefs in 2:16:52.200 --> 2:16:56.400 Super Bowl. Drake has been executed live on stage. It's 2:16:56.400 --> 2:16:57.000 a great week. 2:16:58.560 --> 2:17:00.840 That would have been kinder than what I actually happened 2:17:00.840 --> 2:17:01.279 to Drake. 2:17:03.400 --> 2:17:05.720 Look as someone, as someone in my brusk I mentioned, 2:17:05.720 --> 2:17:09.680 says capitalism. Currently the rule of capitalism seems inescapable, but 2:17:09.720 --> 2:17:12.680 the divine, the divine rule of the Chiefs once seemed 2:17:12.720 --> 2:17:15.959 undefeatable too. And they were fucking humiliated. 2:17:16.720 --> 2:17:18.560 Oh my god, they lost so bad. 2:17:19.160 --> 2:17:21.959 I can't even I can't even say that they were 2:17:21.959 --> 2:17:23.960 beaten up and down the field, because I'd even fucking 2:17:24.000 --> 2:17:28.680 get down the field, obliterately generational beat down. 2:17:29.000 --> 2:17:33.040 And yeah, when I arrived here in New Orleans on Monday, 2:17:33.600 --> 2:17:35.440 this is the Monday after the Super Bowl, so a 2:17:35.480 --> 2:17:40.199 complete nightmare. But there was just an ocean of an 2:17:40.360 --> 2:17:43.720 ocean of out and proud Eagles fans. And the funniest 2:17:43.720 --> 2:17:45.320 thing I saw is that when I was waiting for 2:17:45.360 --> 2:17:47.520 me to fly in, there was this like half a 2:17:47.560 --> 2:17:50.520 full clothing rack, a leftover Chiefs merch. 2:17:52.680 --> 2:17:54.720 And all of the Eagles merch were gone. 2:17:55.000 --> 2:17:57.760 I will see that Chiefs merch again somewhere in like 2:17:57.760 --> 2:18:00.760 a resource pause setting, and it's from now. 2:18:01.040 --> 2:18:03.879 Yes, yes, that's going to be the uniform of a 2:18:03.920 --> 2:18:05.800 future civil war. 2:18:08.720 --> 2:18:12.720 Literally literally Taylor Swift themed Kansas City Chiefs merch. 2:18:13.000 --> 2:18:15.640 Ah. Yeah, huge Alpha capital. 2:18:15.680 --> 2:18:20.600 It's so funny. Oh man, Well, I guess. Yeah. The 2:18:20.680 --> 2:18:25.360 big losers this week, Drake and unfortunately the nation of 2:18:25.520 --> 2:18:28.279 Ukraine and most of the rest of Western Europe. Yeah, 2:18:28.400 --> 2:18:30.760 I guess We'll start with the big news today, which 2:18:30.800 --> 2:18:33.320 is that Trump just had a really great call with 2:18:33.400 --> 2:18:36.440 Vladimir Putin, went super well. They're going to be meeting, 2:18:36.560 --> 2:18:40.160 maybe in Saudi Arabia. There's been some floating of the 2:18:40.160 --> 2:18:42.600 fact that they might meet at the White House, which 2:18:42.680 --> 2:18:45.280 I don't think it ends well for Putin if he 2:18:45.360 --> 2:18:47.039 visits the Uniteds. I don't think it ends well for 2:18:47.080 --> 2:18:49.959 anybody if he visits the United States. This country is 2:18:50.000 --> 2:18:53.959 too heavily armed and crazy right now. But they're doing 2:18:54.040 --> 2:18:56.840 this because Putin and Trump have evidently reached some sort 2:18:56.840 --> 2:18:59.920 of agreement about the end of the war in Ukraine. Zelensk, 2:19:00.080 --> 2:19:04.920 he was not really consulted on this. He's made a 2:19:04.920 --> 2:19:08.120 couple of statements like, yep, we're hoping that this is 2:19:08.160 --> 2:19:10.640 what pushes everything towards peace, but it's very clear that 2:19:10.760 --> 2:19:13.000 what's happening is Ukraine is going to be made to 2:19:13.040 --> 2:19:15.720 give up a decent chunk of their territory. Now they 2:19:15.720 --> 2:19:18.959 do have Russian territory still to bargain with somewhat, so 2:19:20.040 --> 2:19:22.280 it hopefully will not be a situation where Putin gets 2:19:22.360 --> 2:19:25.360 is entirely his own way. But that is kind of 2:19:25.400 --> 2:19:28.480 the what's happening. And the sea change that will accompany 2:19:28.520 --> 2:19:32.520 this is that new Secretary of Defense and Alcoholic Pete 2:19:32.520 --> 2:19:35.680 Hegseth made a statement and a meeting in Brussels that 2:19:35.720 --> 2:19:38.480 the United States will no longer be the guarante of 2:19:38.760 --> 2:19:41.720 peace in Europe. Specifically, he stated that we're not going 2:19:41.760 --> 2:19:45.680 to tolerate of an imbalanced relationship which encourages dependency. But 2:19:45.800 --> 2:19:49.480 this was an announcement that the post war sort of 2:19:49.520 --> 2:19:53.160 status quo is no longer something that we can rely 2:19:53.280 --> 2:19:56.600 on going forward, and that is a really significant admission 2:19:56.640 --> 2:19:57.440 from the sec deaff. 2:19:57.640 --> 2:20:01.240 Yeah, it's sick, it's pretty cool and it's gonna be great. 2:20:02.080 --> 2:20:02.760 It's gonna be great. 2:20:02.760 --> 2:20:05.280 If you're in the German arms industry, it's gonna be 2:20:05.320 --> 2:20:06.480 a banger year for you. 2:20:06.280 --> 2:20:07.879 You making simil. 2:20:08.080 --> 2:20:10.320 I think we could all agree the future is bright 2:20:10.400 --> 2:20:11.520 for German weaponry. 2:20:11.720 --> 2:20:15.520 Yeah, once again Germany will rise to its former glory. Hussah. 2:20:15.760 --> 2:20:17.560 Yeah, you say that as kind of a joke, but 2:20:17.680 --> 2:20:20.680 like genuinely the fact that we are doing a bunch 2:20:20.720 --> 2:20:22.840 of stuff that is leading to the full re armament 2:20:22.920 --> 2:20:25.360 of the German army at the moment when the German 2:20:25.400 --> 2:20:29.080 fascist parties are like about to take power. 2:20:29.240 --> 2:20:31.800 When off Day is getting into power, Yeah, it's great. 2:20:31.800 --> 2:20:33.880 And the Luftwaffe hasn't even bother to change his slogo 2:20:33.920 --> 2:20:35.320 since the last time, so that's cool. 2:20:35.440 --> 2:20:37.240 Well, and what you bring up there me is probably 2:20:37.240 --> 2:20:39.959 worth discussing in concert with all of this, which is 2:20:40.000 --> 2:20:44.039 that AfD off Day, the Alternative for Deutschland, which is 2:20:44.120 --> 2:20:48.920 the new Nazi Party in Germany, is not the majoritarian party, 2:20:48.959 --> 2:20:52.320 but is taking enough seats that it is going to 2:20:52.360 --> 2:20:55.960 be included in the next governing coalition, which is something 2:20:55.959 --> 2:20:58.880 that has not happened in the post World War Two era. 2:20:59.360 --> 2:21:03.000 In the immediate aftermath of World War Two, every Western 2:21:03.000 --> 2:21:07.240 European nation basically came to a tacit agreement referred to 2:21:07.280 --> 2:21:09.760 as the Cordon sanitaire, which is when a right wing 2:21:09.800 --> 2:21:12.760 party starts to gain power, you do not coalition with 2:21:12.840 --> 2:21:16.879 them under any circumstances. Germany is actually like the last 2:21:17.080 --> 2:21:20.760 of the European countries to give up this idea. But 2:21:20.920 --> 2:21:23.840 the fact that the Cordon sanitaire has fallen in Germany 2:21:23.959 --> 2:21:25.600 is real bad news. 2:21:26.040 --> 2:21:29.000 Yeah, and the ADF, like it's worth mentioning, right, Like 2:21:29.400 --> 2:21:32.440 the ADF is so right wing and so nazi that, 2:21:32.520 --> 2:21:36.320 like the Italian Fascists to our empower right now, will 2:21:36.360 --> 2:21:37.320 not work with them. 2:21:37.160 --> 2:21:39.080 Like yeah, yeah, A bunch. 2:21:38.959 --> 2:21:42.640 Of stuff leaked a little while ago about these people 2:21:42.680 --> 2:21:45.480 at meetings openly talking about deporting every single Jew and 2:21:45.480 --> 2:21:48.240 every single immigrant from the country. Like these people are 2:21:48.680 --> 2:21:52.640 you know, I mean, they're just Nazis. And yeah, so 2:21:52.720 --> 2:21:57.400 now we're fucking handing them the fucking justification to fucking 2:21:57.400 --> 2:22:01.199 rebuild their entire arms industry. So yep, rich stuff. 2:22:01.280 --> 2:22:03.720 It is dark, I mean. And again when we say 2:22:03.720 --> 2:22:08.439 the Italian Fascist this is literally Mussolini's party, as in 2:22:08.480 --> 2:22:12.280 his granddaughter it's a member. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, that's bad. 2:22:12.320 --> 2:22:15.279 I think that's probably most of what we can say 2:22:15.360 --> 2:22:18.200 about what's going on in Europe and with Ukraine right now. 2:22:18.240 --> 2:22:19.320 But it's not good. 2:22:19.560 --> 2:22:22.640 Yeah, yeah, it's not good. It doesn't point to a 2:22:22.640 --> 2:22:23.199 great future. 2:22:23.240 --> 2:22:26.360 And this is the multi polar world that like Russia 2:22:26.400 --> 2:22:29.520 has wanted for some time, like coming to fruition, right, 2:22:30.080 --> 2:22:32.800 and I didn't want to talk about. So there was 2:22:32.840 --> 2:22:36.360 a time when Vladimir Putin some as you remember, was 2:22:36.720 --> 2:22:40.240 sanctioned by the International Criminal Court for his war crimes 2:22:40.240 --> 2:22:43.840 in Ukraine the United States. However, the United States has 2:22:43.879 --> 2:22:46.440 not been a signatory to the Rome Statute, so it 2:22:46.720 --> 2:22:50.920 wouldn't necessarily have enforced that arrest warrant anyway. But this 2:22:51.000 --> 2:22:55.680 week Trump signed a little executive order titled in block capitals, 2:22:55.680 --> 2:22:58.840 as We've come to expect, imposing sanctions on the International 2:22:58.840 --> 2:23:03.520 Criminal Court. In doing so, he followed the example of Putin, 2:23:03.560 --> 2:23:06.080 who in twenty twenty three put out arrest warrants for 2:23:06.560 --> 2:23:10.240 ICC prosecutors after they put out a warrant for his arrest. 2:23:11.080 --> 2:23:14.760 Trump didn't cite the Putin example. He called the ICC's 2:23:14.920 --> 2:23:19.560 actions against Israel illegitimate and baseless. That's a quote He 2:23:19.680 --> 2:23:24.240 specifically called the warrants against UF Gallant and Benjamin Etting 2:23:24.320 --> 2:23:27.720 Yahoo baseless. He then went on to claim, quote, both 2:23:27.840 --> 2:23:31.080 nations are thriving democracies with militaries strictly adhered to. 2:23:31.000 --> 2:23:33.000 The laws of war. This is a thing that is 2:23:33.040 --> 2:23:33.520 not true. 2:23:34.280 --> 2:23:37.680 His order then goes on to outline what it calls 2:23:37.800 --> 2:23:41.000 protected persons for people who an't familiar at the United States. 2:23:41.040 --> 2:23:44.160 Person is distinguished from the United States citizen. It also 2:23:44.160 --> 2:23:47.680 includes any permanent residents. It also includes US Armed Forces 2:23:47.720 --> 2:23:51.360 government officials and contractors working on behalf of US Armed 2:23:51.360 --> 2:23:55.520 Forces contractors Yeah, yeah, yeah, the people who can do 2:23:55.560 --> 2:23:58.600 no wrong. It then goes on to include US allies, 2:23:58.680 --> 2:24:01.920 including all of NATO and sometimes contractors working on their behalf. 2:24:02.320 --> 2:24:04.960 It says that if the International Criminal Court investigates any 2:24:05.000 --> 2:24:08.000 of these people, Trump called the Clara National Emergency. It 2:24:08.120 --> 2:24:12.920 also imposes material sanctions and travel bands on both ICC 2:24:13.160 --> 2:24:15.880 prosecutors and people acting on their warrants, as well of 2:24:15.920 --> 2:24:17.199 the families of those people. 2:24:17.480 --> 2:24:17.959 Interesting. 2:24:18.360 --> 2:24:22.120 Yeah, this is an unprecedented American politics, and sometimes it 2:24:22.160 --> 2:24:25.280 gets reported like it is. I want to throw back 2:24:25.320 --> 2:24:28.320 to what they called the Hague Invasion Act that wasn't 2:24:28.360 --> 2:24:32.880 its real name, but that was George Bush's. Like it 2:24:32.959 --> 2:24:35.920 authorized the President to use any means necessary to release 2:24:36.040 --> 2:24:39.200 United States people held by the ICC or at its request, 2:24:39.600 --> 2:24:41.800 So people studied calling it the Hague Invasion Act. 2:24:41.879 --> 2:24:42.080 Right. 2:24:42.680 --> 2:24:46.120 Trump did also sanction ICC prosecutors and their families in 2:24:46.200 --> 2:24:49.879 twenty twenty for looking into US war crimes in Afghanistan. 2:24:50.280 --> 2:24:52.680 I think that happened in June of twenty twenty, so 2:24:52.840 --> 2:24:56.280 you can be forgiven for having missed up because some 2:24:56.320 --> 2:24:57.840 stuff was happening at that time. 2:24:58.000 --> 2:25:01.000 Oh was it? Yeah, things were going down. 2:25:01.360 --> 2:25:04.840 I'm sure the Philadelphia Eagles were beginning their rise to 2:25:04.840 --> 2:25:07.720 glory again. That was a big thing. Kansas City chiefs 2:25:07.720 --> 2:25:10.720 were doing some racist shit shockingly, shockingly. I'm sure Taylor 2:25:10.720 --> 2:25:13.080 Swift was doing something too. But yeah, this is like 2:25:13.360 --> 2:25:16.400 Israel has for nearly a decade been trying to hack 2:25:16.440 --> 2:25:19.240 smea surveil and threaten the Court. In the show notes, 2:25:19.280 --> 2:25:21.400 I'll include a link to a Guardian article that came 2:25:21.440 --> 2:25:24.959 out last year about Israel's attacks and attempts to undermine the. 2:25:24.920 --> 2:25:26.000 International Criminal Court. 2:25:26.440 --> 2:25:29.000 And just if I've been talking about something and you're like, 2:25:29.080 --> 2:25:32.640 what is the International Criminal Court? Very Briefly, it's based 2:25:32.680 --> 2:25:34.360 at the Hague. So if you've heard, you know you 2:25:34.400 --> 2:25:36.520 will stand trial at the Hague. That's what they're talking about. 2:25:36.840 --> 2:25:39.840 It has its most immediate routes in the tribunals investigated 2:25:39.840 --> 2:25:44.720 perpetrators of genocides in Rwanda and Yugoslavia. The US and 2:25:44.800 --> 2:25:46.959 Israel are not members of the court. They never signed 2:25:47.000 --> 2:25:50.240 the Rome Statute. Russia withdrew in twenty sixteen. 2:25:50.440 --> 2:25:51.640 Curious time to withdraw. 2:25:52.120 --> 2:25:53.279 Interesting, fascinating. 2:25:53.360 --> 2:25:56.880 Yeah, they just decided that it wasn't for them, and 2:25:56.959 --> 2:26:00.920 off they went to do some war grants. The ICC 2:26:01.080 --> 2:26:04.480 has been criticized, probably reasonably, for the vast majority of 2:26:04.480 --> 2:26:06.920 the people who have actually been prosecuted for the ICC 2:26:07.160 --> 2:26:11.279 being outside of the core neoliberal states. Right, it's prosecuted 2:26:11.320 --> 2:26:13.920 a lot of people in Africa. That doesn't mean that 2:26:13.959 --> 2:26:16.080 like African people can't do war crimes in Africa, of 2:26:16.080 --> 2:26:18.959 course they can, but it means that they're held accountable 2:26:19.000 --> 2:26:22.640 more often than when countries in the global North do 2:26:22.760 --> 2:26:25.920 war crimes, which they can do too. Okay, So Trump, 2:26:26.240 --> 2:26:29.440 that's like everything else he does, was condemned internationally for 2:26:29.480 --> 2:26:32.000 this right, including by several NATO allies. In so much 2:26:32.000 --> 2:26:34.560 as they really are NATO allies anymore given everything we've 2:26:34.600 --> 2:26:37.760 just talked about. However, it's also worth noting that some 2:26:37.840 --> 2:26:41.080 of the countries like France, who condemned Trump's sanctioning of 2:26:41.240 --> 2:26:45.280 ICC prosecutors, also allowed someone with an ICC warrant I 2:26:45.440 --> 2:26:48.720 Benjamin that's in Yahoo to transit their airspace. So like, 2:26:49.320 --> 2:26:53.080 therefore commitment to the ICC perhaps can be questioned, Like 2:26:53.080 --> 2:26:55.039 this is a problem with the ICC, right it doesn't 2:26:55.040 --> 2:26:56.959 have an integral enforcement mechanism. 2:26:57.320 --> 2:27:01.160 Yeah, yeah, I mean like Canada previous sleep promised quote 2:27:01.200 --> 2:27:04.440 unquote promised, yeah, to arrest nat Yahoo if they were 2:27:04.520 --> 2:27:07.600 ever like able to, And like, yeah, I'm very curious 2:27:07.600 --> 2:27:08.920 to see how this is going to shake down with 2:27:08.959 --> 2:27:12.119 the US taking like an extremely firmer stance at least 2:27:12.200 --> 2:27:13.280 than we previously had. 2:27:13.320 --> 2:27:15.039 We already like you know, quote. 2:27:14.879 --> 2:27:18.440 Unquote like condemnic Canada, but like I'm interested to see 2:27:18.440 --> 2:27:21.039 Trump like be more interested in actually pushing this further 2:27:21.440 --> 2:27:22.240 than it has been. 2:27:22.760 --> 2:27:24.080 Yeah, I guess we'll see how it goes. 2:27:24.240 --> 2:27:26.400 For people who are unfamiliar, I do want to like 2:27:26.680 --> 2:27:30.000 really quickly mention that like Palestine is a signatory and 2:27:30.040 --> 2:27:33.080 therefore war crime to happen within Palestine and covered by 2:27:33.080 --> 2:27:36.800 the CORE. Even if states such as Israel are not signatories, 2:27:37.160 --> 2:27:40.560 right therefore, then they're still under the court to jurisdiction. 2:27:40.640 --> 2:27:43.800 So that that's how in this case this is happening. Yep. 2:27:44.520 --> 2:27:47.320 It could also make the ICC's life very difficult in 2:27:47.400 --> 2:27:50.520 terms of using technology, right that the tech back end 2:27:50.560 --> 2:27:53.920 of everything that ICC does. Try to remove that from 2:27:54.000 --> 2:27:56.240 any United States involvement would be very hard. 2:27:57.400 --> 2:27:59.560 Well, let's go on a quick out of break in 2:27:59.680 --> 2:28:02.560 return to talk about I don't know, the treasury or something. 2:28:02.680 --> 2:28:04.080 Yeah, let's talk about the treasury. 2:28:04.360 --> 2:28:19.039 All right, all right, we are back. 2:28:19.600 --> 2:28:21.959 But before we talk about the Treasury, I first wanted 2:28:22.000 --> 2:28:24.920 to do some breaking news while kind of breaking. So 2:28:25.720 --> 2:28:27.760 when I was flying to New Orleans, I was able 2:28:27.800 --> 2:28:31.000 to fly past the brand new Gulf of America. It 2:28:31.040 --> 2:28:34.160 was a life changing experience. It really warmed my heart. 2:28:34.560 --> 2:28:39.040 And then luckily, a few days ago, Georgia Representative Buddy 2:28:39.160 --> 2:28:44.040 Carter announced legislation to empower Trump to enter into negotiations 2:28:44.080 --> 2:28:49.760 to quote unquote purchase or otherwise acquire Greenland and importantly 2:28:50.000 --> 2:28:54.160 to rename it Red, White, and Blue. Lind God, let's 2:28:54.160 --> 2:28:56.080 get some quick reactions from the panel. 2:28:56.240 --> 2:28:59.200 Sorry, as a person born in Europe, the idea of 2:28:59.320 --> 2:29:02.880 Buddy Carr authorizing the formation of Red, White and Blue Land, 2:29:02.879 --> 2:29:05.400 it's simply just like the fact that this is not 2:29:05.440 --> 2:29:07.240 a parody. It's just fucking too much for me. 2:29:07.320 --> 2:29:11.560 Yeah yeah, I mean, well, what it is is purposefully ridiculous. 2:29:11.680 --> 2:29:13.920 It's a it's a flex, it's a statement of the 2:29:13.959 --> 2:29:16.680 power that they have over their own party and the country. 2:29:16.720 --> 2:29:20.560 It is purposefully absurd and everyone is going to go 2:29:20.640 --> 2:29:24.200 along with it because the Chief the King supports it, right, 2:29:24.600 --> 2:29:26.160 Like that's the point in my opinion. 2:29:26.240 --> 2:29:29.839 Yeah, see empress new clothes of evading places. 2:29:29.440 --> 2:29:32.240 Like, it doesn't matter. We can be as silly as 2:29:32.280 --> 2:29:32.640 we want. 2:29:32.959 --> 2:29:35.640 Genuinely interested in hearing from people in Greenland. 2:29:35.760 --> 2:29:38.520 Yes, honestly, I'm kind of surprised because I would I 2:29:38.520 --> 2:29:40.880 would assume it. Maybe maybe this is still in the works. 2:29:41.320 --> 2:29:43.240 If Elon Musk can find a way to call this 2:29:43.320 --> 2:29:46.039 thing excellent, is really my concern. 2:29:46.560 --> 2:29:50.240 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but now I'm really interested 2:29:50.240 --> 2:29:53.040 in hearing from Greenland. Is genuinely You can contact us 2:29:53.080 --> 2:29:55.879 at cool Zone tips at proton dot me, which is 2:29:55.920 --> 2:29:59.599 an encrypted email address that you can send emails. 2:29:59.240 --> 2:30:02.760 To Yeah, all right, let's let's let's talk about Trump 2:30:02.760 --> 2:30:06.520 potentially crashing the entire world economy. He's taking more shots 2:30:06.600 --> 2:30:09.560 to just literally blow this all up. Yeah, okay, So 2:30:09.640 --> 2:30:14.039 let's talk about the treasuries thing and him potentially talking 2:30:14.040 --> 2:30:16.520 about not paying out our fucking treasury bonds. Okay, so 2:30:16.720 --> 2:30:19.960 many reason quotes from Reuter's so this is Trump. We're 2:30:19.959 --> 2:30:23.200 even looking at treasuries. Trump said there could be a problem. 2:30:23.200 --> 2:30:25.320 You've been reading about that with treasuries, and that could 2:30:25.360 --> 2:30:28.760 be an interesting problem. Now, treasuries again, our course, US 2:30:28.879 --> 2:30:30.960 treasury bonds. We will get to what those are in 2:30:31.000 --> 2:30:32.400 a second, but I need to read the rest of 2:30:32.440 --> 2:30:35.440 this quote. It could be that a lot of those 2:30:35.480 --> 2:30:38.480 things don't count. In other words, that some of the 2:30:38.480 --> 2:30:41.520 stuff that we're finding is very fraudulent. Therefore, maybe we 2:30:41.560 --> 2:30:45.800 have less debt than we thought. Now that's a very 2:30:45.840 --> 2:30:46.800 scary thing to say. 2:30:47.160 --> 2:30:52.320 Yeah, Treasury bills are the primary underpinning of like economic 2:30:52.400 --> 2:30:57.440 stability in this country. T bells are what large corporate 2:30:57.440 --> 2:30:59.640 institutions when they have a lot of cash. But like 2:30:59.879 --> 2:31:02.760 very wealthy people, it's where you park your money, and 2:31:02.800 --> 2:31:06.240 it's where foreign governments park a lot of their money, Like, yeah, 2:31:06.280 --> 2:31:08.280 and it's how our government gets a lot of its 2:31:08.320 --> 2:31:12.840 money because it's a good, reliable investment. So saying maybe 2:31:12.879 --> 2:31:15.560 we're going to declare some of these T bill investments 2:31:15.600 --> 2:31:18.280 bullshit is very dangerous. 2:31:19.680 --> 2:31:21.360 Yeah, for the global economy. 2:31:21.600 --> 2:31:25.320 Yeah, yeah, I want to read this next line because 2:31:25.560 --> 2:31:27.640 one of the things that's happening here, right is that 2:31:28.560 --> 2:31:31.280 people just simply and this has been a real problem 2:31:31.320 --> 2:31:34.440 for this entire administrations, people simply do not believe that 2:31:34.560 --> 2:31:36.680 he means to do the thing he says he's going 2:31:36.720 --> 2:31:36.920 to do. 2:31:37.080 --> 2:31:37.240 Right. 2:31:37.480 --> 2:31:41.279 Quote is this from Broiders. Again, it could be treasury payments, 2:31:41.440 --> 2:31:44.720 which is not linked the treasury bonds, said for shop Behani, 2:31:44.879 --> 2:31:49.080 investment chief for Asia at BNP Power Boss Wealth Management, 2:31:49.600 --> 2:31:51.800 I would be very surprised if they ever stopped a 2:31:51.800 --> 2:31:53.879 payment of treasury bonds to a holder. It would be 2:31:53.959 --> 2:31:55.440 like shooting yourself in the foot. 2:31:55.480 --> 2:31:55.879 He said. 2:31:56.480 --> 2:32:00.720 Now, this is something where these these institutional investors like 2:32:01.160 --> 2:32:04.000 they still have not quite wrapped their head around the 2:32:04.040 --> 2:32:06.320 fact that no, he really will do this shit because 2:32:06.320 --> 2:32:09.959 he doesn't understand at all. He thinks that American debt 2:32:10.040 --> 2:32:13.000 works the same way as like his own personal debt, 2:32:13.240 --> 2:32:15.720 and no it doesn't. I mean, it's it's worth saying something. So, 2:32:15.760 --> 2:32:19.120 I mean, just a very very basic shit about how 2:32:19.320 --> 2:32:23.080 national debt works. Right, Like all of our money, literally 2:32:23.120 --> 2:32:25.320 every single dollar that is in circulation, every dollar that 2:32:25.400 --> 2:32:28.080 is in a bank account, that is literally government debt, 2:32:28.520 --> 2:32:32.640 right like that that's what money is, right, And these 2:32:32.680 --> 2:32:35.800 treasury bonds are as you were talking about earlier, Right, 2:32:35.879 --> 2:32:41.680 this is like the investment asset for literally the entire world. 2:32:41.920 --> 2:32:44.280 And there's trillions of dollars of these. Actually Japan is 2:32:44.320 --> 2:32:47.840 the largest holder of treasury bonds. China's sort of been 2:32:47.879 --> 2:32:50.120 selling some of theirs, but they have a lot of them. 2:32:50.360 --> 2:32:51.600 Yeah, probably good to be doing that. 2:32:52.600 --> 2:32:52.840 Yeah. 2:32:52.840 --> 2:32:55.800 And it's also you know, like the fact that he's 2:32:56.160 --> 2:32:58.000 saying he's not gonna pay these yet, Like this can 2:32:58.040 --> 2:33:01.560 start a massive crisis in which I've been talking for 2:33:01.600 --> 2:33:03.280 a bit about. You know, every day we sort of 2:33:03.280 --> 2:33:06.400 get closer to credit rating agencies like downgrading the quality 2:33:06.440 --> 2:33:08.400 of US debt, which is a real problem for us 2:33:08.480 --> 2:33:11.800 trying to like get money from people. And and you know, 2:33:11.920 --> 2:33:13.600 even if you listen to what that what the sort 2:33:13.640 --> 2:33:15.920 of bond analyst is saying, right, he's like well, it's fine, 2:33:15.959 --> 2:33:19.600 they'll just stop paying like US debt to other things, 2:33:19.640 --> 2:33:23.440 which is like unbelievably unhinged. Would also in and of itself, 2:33:23.480 --> 2:33:25.160 like like destroying the full faith and credit of the 2:33:25.280 --> 2:33:28.600 United States would absolutely just fucking annihilate the world economy. 2:33:29.280 --> 2:33:32.520 And it's also another example of Trump not understanding how 2:33:32.600 --> 2:33:35.840 the empire he's inherited works, because like, the one of 2:33:35.879 --> 2:33:38.120 the ways the US funds is government is by getting 2:33:38.120 --> 2:33:41.360 its client states to buy like trillions of dollars of assets. 2:33:41.360 --> 2:33:44.120 Like that's partially why feelie. Look at who who buys 2:33:44.200 --> 2:33:47.000 US assets, Like it's China and US tributary states like 2:33:47.080 --> 2:33:50.800 Japan for example, which is just purely in American military protectorate. Right, 2:33:50.840 --> 2:33:53.400 it's a sort of incredible system for the US. Right, 2:33:53.440 --> 2:33:56.039 you get a bunch of people and you, you know, 2:33:56.040 --> 2:33:57.960 you just you just sort of perpetually keep borrowing money 2:33:58.000 --> 2:33:59.960 from them, And it's this thing where they don't understand 2:34:00.000 --> 2:34:03.480 and who actually holds the power in the relationship, which 2:34:03.520 --> 2:34:05.520 is that the US having all this, is the one 2:34:05.520 --> 2:34:07.240 with the power and is the one that's getting everyone 2:34:07.240 --> 2:34:11.119 else's money for this sort of secure asset. So you know, 2:34:11.560 --> 2:34:13.720 who knows what's going to happen with this. If this 2:34:13.760 --> 2:34:16.600 actually starts happening, like, yeah, this is the world rending 2:34:16.720 --> 2:34:20.840 economic crisis levels of stuff. Well, we'll see if he 2:34:20.879 --> 2:34:23.240 moves on it, he may simply forget about it, or 2:34:23.320 --> 2:34:26.120 we're going to wake up one day and like the 2:34:26.240 --> 2:34:29.720 US's credit's going to be downgraded to like junk bond status, 2:34:29.800 --> 2:34:33.120 and yeah, everything's going to be chaos. So, speaking of 2:34:33.600 --> 2:34:37.000 Trump trying to sort of like take shots at pillars 2:34:37.000 --> 2:34:40.480 of the global economy, starting in March, he's trying to 2:34:40.520 --> 2:34:43.680 implement a twenty five percent tariff on all imported steel 2:34:43.680 --> 2:34:46.440 and aluminum. Most of that's actually from Canada and Mexico. 2:34:46.840 --> 2:34:49.200 I think in their minds is the thing about Chinese steel, 2:34:49.480 --> 2:34:54.600 but it's mostly from Canada and Mexico. This is also 2:34:54.920 --> 2:34:57.840 a fucking shit show because the US manufacturing capacity that 2:34:57.840 --> 2:34:59.160 we still have and we still actually do have a 2:34:59.200 --> 2:35:02.960 decent amount of like very high tech manufacturing capacity, right 2:35:03.520 --> 2:35:06.320 relies on this stuff, and this is going to make 2:35:06.360 --> 2:35:09.920 it more expensive, gets bad. It will do nothing to 2:35:10.000 --> 2:35:13.119 deal with the fact that US doesn't produce steel anymore, 2:35:13.160 --> 2:35:15.800 which is the product of that. One day, I'll do 2:35:15.879 --> 2:35:18.840 my structural Chinese steel over capacity episode. But you know, 2:35:18.920 --> 2:35:21.920 it's the product of like half a century of the 2:35:21.920 --> 2:35:25.520 global manufacturing economy, you know, becoming zero sum and they're 2:35:25.520 --> 2:35:28.720 simply not being a large enough consumer market for all 2:35:28.760 --> 2:35:33.039 of industrial goods, which means the production becomes increasingly you know, 2:35:33.680 --> 2:35:35.800 it becomes impossible to expand production to one place without 2:35:35.879 --> 2:35:37.760 you know, getting red production another place. In Trump things 2:35:37.800 --> 2:35:39.840 you can solve those with tariffs. You can't. Mostly it's 2:35:39.879 --> 2:35:42.520 just another like throw things at the economy. 2:35:42.520 --> 2:35:42.720 Shit. 2:35:43.760 --> 2:35:45.959 Now, you know, Trump is sort of throwing bombs at 2:35:46.000 --> 2:35:48.039 the economic system. One of the largest ones that he's 2:35:48.080 --> 2:35:54.920 thrown is he just straight up stole eighty million dollars 2:35:54.959 --> 2:35:57.560 in FEMA funding that they had already paid out, Like 2:35:57.600 --> 2:36:00.240 just straight up stole it from like New York City 2:36:00.280 --> 2:36:01.560 bank account. They like, so we've been paid to the 2:36:01.560 --> 2:36:03.920 government in New York. Right, this happened earlier today. Right, 2:36:03.959 --> 2:36:06.040 This is yeah, literally literally, this this is breaking news, 2:36:06.040 --> 2:36:08.120 breaking news on Wednesday. This is coming out Friday. This 2:36:08.160 --> 2:36:10.640 episode is being recorded on Wednesday. Everything that you hear, 2:36:10.720 --> 2:36:12.199 if shit has happened in the US a few days, 2:36:12.400 --> 2:36:13.080 that's from the future. 2:36:13.120 --> 2:36:13.600 We didn't know. 2:36:14.040 --> 2:36:17.680 But yeah, yeah, he literally like they have taken eighty 2:36:17.720 --> 2:36:20.960 million dollars just from this bank account. They just stole it. 2:36:21.320 --> 2:36:25.600 The hospital government is just straight up robbing banks. 2:36:25.800 --> 2:36:28.119 It's okay that came out today and said that don't 2:36:28.160 --> 2:36:30.840 worry your bank accounts are still safe, everybody. 2:36:32.000 --> 2:36:35.760 Yeah, And this is like appropriated funds like for FEMA, 2:36:35.840 --> 2:36:39.600 being sayly secured in banks that have like literally been 2:36:39.800 --> 2:36:41.720 still funds so approved. 2:36:41.320 --> 2:36:43.359 By Congress for a specific purpose. 2:36:43.480 --> 2:36:46.160 Right, yeah, And what's actually going to happen with this? Right? 2:36:46.240 --> 2:36:49.680 Because you would expect a even like a normal shitty 2:36:50.440 --> 2:36:53.840 mayor of New York to like go sicker mode. However, 2:36:54.440 --> 2:36:58.360 well man, however, comma, here's from Yahoo News quote. Eric 2:36:58.360 --> 2:37:00.640 Adams has said he will not publicly create size Trump 2:37:00.720 --> 2:37:03.520 or his administration. Instead, he'll take his concerns to Trump 2:37:03.520 --> 2:37:06.400 in private. On Monday, Adams convened a meeting with his 2:37:06.440 --> 2:37:08.720 own top officials to urge them not to speak badly 2:37:08.720 --> 2:37:10.720 about the President and public, saying if they were to 2:37:10.760 --> 2:37:14.080 do so, it could risk federal funding. Later that day. 2:37:14.120 --> 2:37:17.920 That same day, Trump's Justice Department ordered the prosecutors in 2:37:17.959 --> 2:37:20.760 Adam's criminal case to drop the charges against him, in part, 2:37:20.840 --> 2:37:22.720 arguing Adams must be free of the burden of his 2:37:22.760 --> 2:37:25.520 corruption indictment to help carry out Trump's immigration agenda in 2:37:25.560 --> 2:37:25.959 the city. 2:37:26.200 --> 2:37:26.440 Great. 2:37:26.800 --> 2:37:29.440 Cool, This is the most like quid pro quote thing 2:37:29.520 --> 2:37:30.520 I've ever seen. 2:37:30.840 --> 2:37:33.600 It is the single most corrupt thing I've seen out 2:37:33.640 --> 2:37:36.920 of US politics. Yeah, like blatantly, it's staggering. 2:37:37.120 --> 2:37:40.039 I mean it would come from Trump plus Adams, right, like, yeah, 2:37:40.040 --> 2:37:40.840 we'll go see it. 2:37:40.879 --> 2:37:43.199 That's what we're going to say. We've hit a singularity 2:37:43.320 --> 2:37:43.960 of corruption. 2:37:44.200 --> 2:37:47.119 Yes, yeah, it's stumbled as always the first stop. 2:37:47.240 --> 2:37:48.960 Yeah. The only way they can go further than this 2:37:49.120 --> 2:37:51.560 is that Eric Adams is going to appoint Rob Lagoyevitch's 2:37:51.600 --> 2:37:54.840 head of like bank robbery or something. One can dream, mia, 2:37:54.959 --> 2:37:55.720 one can dream. 2:37:55.800 --> 2:37:57.560 There are a few other ways they can go further 2:37:57.600 --> 2:38:00.800 with Yo, I'm afraid to inform youmya, but we'll be 2:38:00.800 --> 2:38:02.080 hoping those don't happen. 2:38:01.840 --> 2:38:04.039 Well on the corruption index, on the corruption index. 2:38:04.200 --> 2:38:19.840 Okay, speaking of corruption, let's pivot to ads. All right, 2:38:20.120 --> 2:38:22.680 we are back, and I'm going to close by talking 2:38:22.760 --> 2:38:26.439 about the war on Woke, my new favorite news beat. 2:38:26.760 --> 2:38:29.360 That I'm forced to addention to every week. 2:38:31.240 --> 2:38:34.400 There was a transports band that that that Trump did 2:38:34.400 --> 2:38:36.920 an executive order about using a whole bitch of children 2:38:37.000 --> 2:38:40.640 as a prop, very clearly trying to steal steal the 2:38:40.800 --> 2:38:44.800 charisma from whatever that governor who lost the election did 2:38:44.920 --> 2:38:48.800 with his free school lunch there anyway. Instead now it's 2:38:48.879 --> 2:38:51.120 you just you know, hurt other children in the school 2:38:51.160 --> 2:38:53.640 by not making them be allowed to play sports. So 2:38:53.920 --> 2:38:57.200 that happened, and then a few other things have happened 2:38:57.200 --> 2:38:58.680 the past few weeks, and I'm kind of just like 2:38:58.760 --> 2:39:01.200 catching up on because I been really focused on, like 2:39:01.280 --> 2:39:03.920 reporting on like Muscus specifically, and there's been a lot 2:39:03.959 --> 2:39:06.160 of other stuff the past few weeks, So I'm going 2:39:06.200 --> 2:39:09.359 to kind of get to that now. The State Department's 2:39:09.440 --> 2:39:15.360 travel website changed the acronym LGBT to LGB on a 2:39:15.400 --> 2:39:18.240 web page like warning about like how dangerous it might 2:39:18.320 --> 2:39:21.760 be to like travel to like other countries with like 2:39:21.879 --> 2:39:28.040 worse legal protections, say LGB travelers can face special challenges abroad. 2:39:28.240 --> 2:39:31.400 Laws and attitudes in some countries may affect safety and 2:39:31.600 --> 2:39:34.520 ease of travel. Many countries do not recognize the same 2:39:34.560 --> 2:39:37.800 sex marriage. Many countries don't recognize the ex gender marker 2:39:37.879 --> 2:39:41.959 in passports and do not have it systems at ports 2:39:42.000 --> 2:39:44.760 of entry that can accept sex markers other than female 2:39:44.760 --> 2:39:45.160 and male. 2:39:45.280 --> 2:39:48.119 So they've only changed the title pot. Yeah, they haven't 2:39:48.160 --> 2:39:49.520 even bothered to edit the text. 2:39:49.920 --> 2:39:53.240 No, because because they also have another info page where 2:39:53.240 --> 2:39:58.120 they have just like control ft LGBT two LGB as well. 2:39:58.480 --> 2:40:00.880 So this is this is like one of like many 2:40:01.040 --> 2:40:04.359 changes we're seeing across a whole bunch of federal websites 2:40:04.640 --> 2:40:07.240 in relation to Trump's order to like remove wokeness and 2:40:07.280 --> 2:40:12.400 gender ideology. Previously, the CDC removed like HIV and trans 2:40:12.480 --> 2:40:16.000 related like health info pages from their website, and as 2:40:16.040 --> 2:40:19.320 of yesterday, February eleventh, the web pages for the FDA, 2:40:19.640 --> 2:40:24.080 Health and Human Services and the CDC were allegedly brought 2:40:24.120 --> 2:40:29.000 back online, restoring their January thirtieth status. They did this 2:40:29.160 --> 2:40:32.760 like right before a court mandated deadline to restore these pages, 2:40:32.840 --> 2:40:35.160 so like I can I can now go back on 2:40:35.200 --> 2:40:35.560 to the. 2:40:35.440 --> 2:40:37.119 CDC's HIV page. 2:40:37.640 --> 2:40:40.560 Verge was first reported on this, and they said that, 2:40:40.600 --> 2:40:43.160 you know, they've been unable to verify that all of 2:40:43.200 --> 2:40:45.760 the pages have been restored exactly to how they were before. 2:40:46.040 --> 2:40:47.640 This is something that we're still working on because it's 2:40:47.640 --> 2:40:51.000 literally happened, like you know yesterday. This is this is 2:40:51.040 --> 2:40:53.880 like a small, a small part of their of their 2:40:53.920 --> 2:40:57.560 current war on wokeness. Another aspect of this is there's 2:40:57.600 --> 2:41:00.200 been a whole bunch of orders from federal agencies to 2:41:00.360 --> 2:41:07.280 ban specific woke keywords across their databases, their websites, training information, 2:41:07.920 --> 2:41:11.280 including from agencies like Noah. So just like the weather 2:41:11.360 --> 2:41:16.000 and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, they released a 2:41:16.080 --> 2:41:19.920 memo of banning specific words across the agency, including words 2:41:19.959 --> 2:41:26.840 like ability, acceptance, access, affirmation, aggression, ally shift, androgyne a, 2:41:26.920 --> 2:41:42.359 sexual belonging, bias, binary, bisexual, black culture, DEI, discrimination, diversity, empathy, empowerment, equity, ethnicity, fairness, gay, gender, genitisphia, handicap, homosexual, LGBTQ, intersex, 2:41:42.440 --> 2:41:46.800 pan sexual, queer, transgender, transvestite, as well as words like 2:41:46.879 --> 2:41:54.480 impartial inclusion, indigenous, intersectionality, justice, The word white has been banned, 2:41:55.120 --> 2:42:00.000 They space social justice, underserved communities, race, privilege, powerdynamics, the data, 2:42:00.080 --> 2:42:03.879 American multiculturalism. So just all of these Like again, this 2:42:03.959 --> 2:42:07.039 is like the Party of Free Speech has banned all 2:42:07.120 --> 2:42:10.200 of these words, and it's not it's it's it's it's 2:42:10.240 --> 2:42:14.200 not just Noah. Also, the National Science Foundation has has 2:42:14.240 --> 2:42:17.000 released my most saying that they cannot have these words 2:42:17.000 --> 2:42:19.480 included in their documents because it could cause them to 2:42:19.560 --> 2:42:20.600 lose grant funding. 2:42:20.680 --> 2:42:23.080 Well, it's the end for race science. Then they can't 2:42:23.120 --> 2:42:24.360 do race science anymore. 2:42:24.520 --> 2:42:27.240 There's a lot of similar words flagged in the National 2:42:27.240 --> 2:42:30.920 Science Foundation list of banned words, like activism, activists, advocacy, 2:42:31.480 --> 2:42:38.400 a barrier, a bias, black LATINX community, uh diversity, equity, 2:42:38.760 --> 2:42:44.000 cultural differences, cultural heritage, culturally responsive, diverse, you know, diverse, 2:42:44.000 --> 2:42:53.720 community divice groups, diversified, diversifying, all this kind of stuff, ethnicity, equality, inclusion, inequality, LGBT, 2:42:54.000 --> 2:43:05.480 institutional marginalize, trauma, underappreciated, stereotype type, systemic underrepresentation, undervalued victim. 2:43:06.320 --> 2:43:09.560 I love that you can no longer do scientific papers 2:43:09.600 --> 2:43:15.720 about systemic infections. Yeah, organs, Like yeah, no, there's anything. 2:43:15.400 --> 2:43:17.760 That has a barrier, Yeah, exactly. 2:43:17.879 --> 2:43:19.920 There's so many words that are just like used in 2:43:20.000 --> 2:43:23.800 like how like studies function that they cannot use because 2:43:23.840 --> 2:43:25.840 the word is too woke, and then they're gonna lose 2:43:25.879 --> 2:43:28.400 their funding. Like yeah, you can't, like you can't like 2:43:28.440 --> 2:43:31.320 look at like things being equal. You can't look at 2:43:31.360 --> 2:43:34.800 any kind of like scientific bias, Like you can't like 2:43:35.760 --> 2:43:38.160 this very basic stuff. It may just result in like 2:43:38.200 --> 2:43:41.360 the tiktokification of this, like trying to spell these words 2:43:41.400 --> 2:43:42.760 with like a different letter. 2:43:42.720 --> 2:43:44.200 Talking about cute little boots. 2:43:44.200 --> 2:43:47.320 So what it is, and like I'm laughing because it's 2:43:47.360 --> 2:43:49.280 all like absurd and it's kind of like kind of 2:43:49.320 --> 2:43:51.200 like a coping mechanism, but like this is all like 2:43:51.520 --> 2:43:52.120 very bad. 2:43:52.520 --> 2:43:54.280 Well, but like this some thing else, something else we 2:43:54.280 --> 2:43:55.720 need to talk about you, which is like like you 2:43:55.720 --> 2:43:59.039 are required by law as part of your grand proposal 2:43:59.160 --> 2:44:01.960 like have things that talk about like how this is 2:44:01.959 --> 2:44:04.240 going to affect different communities, et cetera, et cetera. Is 2:44:04.280 --> 2:44:06.080 a legal requirement for you to put that in your thing. 2:44:06.160 --> 2:44:08.800 So like if you were to like strictly enforce this, 2:44:08.800 --> 2:44:12.040 this kills every fucking grant. And this is this is 2:44:12.040 --> 2:44:14.280 one of these things where it's like you're literally just 2:44:14.360 --> 2:44:17.480 running straight into the federal law tells you you must 2:44:17.480 --> 2:44:19.720 do this thing, and the Trow Administration says these words 2:44:19.720 --> 2:44:22.119 are banned, and so like yeah, who knows, it's a 2:44:22.280 --> 2:44:23.439 really weird situation. 2:44:23.879 --> 2:44:27.080 Yeah, you can't do IRB right now. Like most guards 2:44:27.120 --> 2:44:29.560 will go through an institutional review board that will determine 2:44:29.680 --> 2:44:34.000 like if there are human subjects, they're like there ethical 2:44:34.240 --> 2:44:37.240 boundaries and like what you're doing is okay. I can't 2:44:37.280 --> 2:44:39.560 see it being possible to do an IRB and not 2:44:39.800 --> 2:44:40.840 say these words. 2:44:41.240 --> 2:44:43.840 Yeah no, and like we have to do scientific studies 2:44:43.840 --> 2:44:48.280 on like how how very disabilities affect people's lives, like 2:44:48.520 --> 2:44:51.560 very basic stuff like this, all of these types of things. 2:44:51.920 --> 2:44:54.600 It's really bad and these things like are going into effect. 2:44:54.640 --> 2:44:57.280 I know, like this is this stuff is still happening. 2:44:57.680 --> 2:45:01.320 Columnists to doctor Lucky Tran report quote, the CDC has 2:45:01.360 --> 2:45:04.680 instructed its scientists to retract or pause the publication of 2:45:04.720 --> 2:45:08.279 any research manuscript being considered by any medical or scientific journal. 2:45:08.440 --> 2:45:11.240 The move aims to ensure that quote unquote, no forbidden 2:45:11.400 --> 2:45:16.720 terms appear in the work band terms must be scrubbed. Great, 2:45:17.120 --> 2:45:20.720 it's all really bad, yep. And we're seeing this this 2:45:20.800 --> 2:45:24.879 sort of like lists being formed increasingly, including this DEI 2:45:25.080 --> 2:45:29.440 watch list put together by a conservative oppositional research group 2:45:29.520 --> 2:45:34.600 called the American Accountability Foundation CHRIST who released a DEI 2:45:34.640 --> 2:45:37.520 watch list, which publishes the names, photos, occupation, and personal 2:45:37.560 --> 2:45:41.080 information of mostly black employees who work under the Department 2:45:41.120 --> 2:45:44.039 of Health and Human Services When the website was first discovered, 2:45:44.080 --> 2:45:48.119 the employee profiles were labeled under targets. This has since 2:45:48.160 --> 2:45:53.480 been changed to dossiers like very very frightening, like very 2:45:53.520 --> 2:45:57.120 bad stuff, like very obvious intimidation for each target. The 2:45:57.160 --> 2:46:01.360 website lists a collection of alleged DEI offense, which includes 2:46:01.480 --> 2:46:05.000 donations to Democrats and social media posts having pronouns in 2:46:05.040 --> 2:46:08.760 their bio or previous work on since deleted diversity, equity 2:46:08.800 --> 2:46:13.039 and inclusion initiatives. Columnist Jamal Bowie says, quote, they are 2:46:13.040 --> 2:46:16.360 mostly targeting black employees. So this is quite literally just 2:46:16.440 --> 2:46:20.119 a repeat of Rigrow Wilson's segregationist purge of the federal government. 2:46:20.520 --> 2:46:23.039 And like, yes, like all of this, all of this 2:46:23.160 --> 2:46:26.640 like push against quote unquote DEEI is like very clearly 2:46:26.680 --> 2:46:29.440 just like white supremacists segregation in action. Like this is 2:46:29.520 --> 2:46:32.280 the whole point is that if any employee is a 2:46:32.280 --> 2:46:34.560 person of color, that means that they that they must 2:46:34.600 --> 2:46:37.880 be unqualified because they were hired only due to DEI 2:46:38.640 --> 2:46:41.720 and to avoid doing that, you could only hire white people. 2:46:42.080 --> 2:46:45.840 And Trump's Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy sent out a memo 2:46:45.920 --> 2:46:48.800 directing staff on where to direct like grant funds and 2:46:48.840 --> 2:46:52.080 he said, quote give preference to communities with marriage and 2:46:52.200 --> 2:46:55.640 birth rates higher than the national average unquote, which is 2:46:55.680 --> 2:46:58.320 a very clear dog whistle to just like only hire 2:46:58.400 --> 2:47:02.440 like white Christians are Christians with big families, you know, 2:47:02.600 --> 2:47:06.320 parenthesis like white people. This is like very very obviously 2:47:06.440 --> 2:47:07.080 what they're doing. 2:47:07.680 --> 2:47:09.959 Yeah, and they're I mean, this is extending to the 2:47:10.000 --> 2:47:13.600 military now under Hegseth. West Point has just announced effectively 2:47:13.600 --> 2:47:16.160 the banning of a number of clubs, including the Society 2:47:16.160 --> 2:47:19.080 of Black Engineers, which is like three quarters of a 2:47:19.120 --> 2:47:22.840 century old something like that. Also ending programs that are 2:47:22.840 --> 2:47:27.160 focused on like recruiting into the military black soldiers but 2:47:27.360 --> 2:47:31.480 have like pivoted to recruiting from NRA gatherings, even though 2:47:31.480 --> 2:47:34.240 there's internal agreement that that brings in a lower quality 2:47:34.360 --> 2:47:34.800 type of. 2:47:35.720 --> 2:47:38.359 Say I've seen Sementara members. 2:47:38.520 --> 2:47:41.080 Yeah, yeah, I've seen a few NRA members, right, and 2:47:41.120 --> 2:47:44.000 I yeah. And it's just one of these things, like 2:47:44.320 --> 2:47:46.720 there's a very good book that I think people need 2:47:46.760 --> 2:47:48.880 to read if you want to know kind of the 2:47:48.920 --> 2:47:51.280 operational impact this is going to have, both on the 2:47:51.360 --> 2:47:53.879 US military and probably to an extent, law enforcement. We 2:47:53.920 --> 2:47:56.080 look at agencies like the FBI, there's a book called 2:47:56.080 --> 2:48:00.640 The Dictator's Army that heavily focuses on how changes like 2:48:00.680 --> 2:48:04.280 this impact operational efficiency, and the gist of it is 2:48:04.320 --> 2:48:07.959 that the goal, and clearly what Hegseth's job is, is 2:48:08.000 --> 2:48:12.280 to make the military into something that can't pose opposition 2:48:12.480 --> 2:48:15.360 to the new regime. Right, that's the goal here, because 2:48:15.400 --> 2:48:18.200 there's a very realistic understanding that the military was one 2:48:18.240 --> 2:48:21.560 of things that stopped him from maintaining power in twenty twenty, right, 2:48:22.000 --> 2:48:25.080 both because the military was not willing to be used 2:48:25.080 --> 2:48:28.960 to crack down directly on protests and because General Milly 2:48:29.520 --> 2:48:32.400 acted as a barrier to Trump's attempt to do a 2:48:32.480 --> 2:48:33.480 coup the last time. 2:48:33.600 --> 2:48:33.800 Right. 2:48:34.400 --> 2:48:37.720 So you have an understanding which is very common when 2:48:37.879 --> 2:48:41.240 regimes like this takeover in democratic societies. In the early 2:48:41.320 --> 2:48:44.320 days of the Third Reich, the military was the primary 2:48:44.360 --> 2:48:48.040 concern Hitler had because they were not Nazis, right, they 2:48:48.080 --> 2:48:50.160 were conservative, but they were not in the tank for 2:48:50.200 --> 2:48:52.240 the Nazi Party, And there was a lot that he 2:48:52.360 --> 2:48:55.320 wanted to do that the military establishment at the time 2:48:55.360 --> 2:48:57.360 the Third Rich came to power wouldn't let him do. 2:48:57.440 --> 2:48:59.520 And that was that was one of the first things. 2:49:00.040 --> 2:49:01.720 And this this took several years, but that was one 2:49:01.760 --> 2:49:04.640 of the first goals of the Nazi regime and power 2:49:05.120 --> 2:49:07.880 was reforming the military as much as possible in their 2:49:07.920 --> 2:49:08.680 own image. 2:49:08.920 --> 2:49:10.520 And like so much of like what HEGGS is doing 2:49:10.520 --> 2:49:13.240 here specifically with like the West Point like club banning, 2:49:13.280 --> 2:49:15.720 it's like like these things are not like DEI. These 2:49:15.720 --> 2:49:18.760 things are like very old. These are like pretty like 2:49:18.840 --> 2:49:21.360 standard standard things that have been like roped into like 2:49:21.400 --> 2:49:24.480 what it means to like be in America. And we're 2:49:24.480 --> 2:49:28.080 now just seeing this like crusade against DEI being used 2:49:28.080 --> 2:49:31.600 to just reverse affirmative action and specifically select for white 2:49:31.640 --> 2:49:34.920 Christian applicants. Yeah, and like that's the entirety of this 2:49:35.240 --> 2:49:38.359 point here, Like they're they're using DEI as like as 2:49:38.400 --> 2:49:41.480 this like magical wand to frame things that are like 2:49:41.720 --> 2:49:45.000 pretty standard and like accepted parts of like how you 2:49:45.040 --> 2:49:48.320 do like hiring practices, how you don't do discrimination to 2:49:48.680 --> 2:49:53.360 just specifically only only like uplift white Christians. And that's 2:49:53.480 --> 2:49:56.320 part of this like very basic like Christian nationalist project 2:49:56.640 --> 2:49:58.760 that people like Heritage have been trying to do for 2:49:58.840 --> 2:49:59.640 a long time. 2:50:00.440 --> 2:50:02.160 I think it's also worth noting too that like the 2:50:02.200 --> 2:50:04.080 other thing that this mirrors, you know, and the like. 2:50:04.120 --> 2:50:06.440 Specifically in the way that this target's queer people is 2:50:07.040 --> 2:50:09.000 the Lavender Scare, which is a thing from like the 2:50:09.000 --> 2:50:11.240 sort of late forties through the sixties where the US 2:50:11.320 --> 2:50:14.720 is part of this like giant anti communist herge. It 2:50:14.840 --> 2:50:18.279 was on basically went through and found every gay government 2:50:18.280 --> 2:50:21.600 official and fucking ran them out. That's like another aspect 2:50:21.640 --> 2:50:23.720 of this whole thing, right, like the way these people 2:50:23.800 --> 2:50:26.600 understand the world. In order to sort of like purify 2:50:26.879 --> 2:50:28.879 their like white state, right like, you have to ord 2:50:28.920 --> 2:50:30.119 to the non white people, and you have to get 2:50:30.200 --> 2:50:33.160 rid of the queers, and you know, and people especially 2:50:33.160 --> 2:50:35.720 people who are fucking both. And so this is this 2:50:35.760 --> 2:50:41.200 sort of transformational project of changing this this sort of 2:50:41.240 --> 2:50:44.920 like just changing the composition of what the US is into, 2:50:45.800 --> 2:50:48.000 like and how its state functions, and how they can 2:50:48.560 --> 2:50:51.360 to like what level of violence they can bring about 2:50:51.440 --> 2:50:51.959 on people. 2:50:53.000 --> 2:50:55.800 And they've wrote these things together so closely now, like 2:50:56.200 --> 2:51:00.000 the anti trans like school executive order. Only the first 2:51:00.000 --> 2:51:02.360 first half the executive order was actually about the gender 2:51:02.480 --> 2:51:06.840 ideology stuff. The second half was aimed at curbing what 2:51:06.879 --> 2:51:13.280 they called discriminatory equity ideology d DEI. Basically it was 2:51:13.400 --> 2:51:18.280 proposing a program for quote unquote patriotic education across the country, 2:51:18.480 --> 2:51:21.480 basically trying to rewrite history to make like the United 2:51:21.520 --> 2:51:25.480 States like this, like noble historical project. H It's like 2:51:26.040 --> 2:51:27.720 stuff that they've tried to do before with that, like 2:51:28.040 --> 2:51:30.120 with that, like seventeen seventy six project that The New 2:51:30.200 --> 2:51:33.240 York Times reported on. Part of Trump's order called for 2:51:33.360 --> 2:51:38.000 quote an accurate, honest, unifying, inspiring, an ennobling characterization of 2:51:38.080 --> 2:51:42.080 America's founding and foundational principles, a clear examination of how 2:51:42.120 --> 2:51:45.120 the United States has admirably grown closer to its noble 2:51:45.120 --> 2:51:49.000 principles throughout history, the concept that commitment to America's aspirations 2:51:49.080 --> 2:51:52.439 is beneficial and justified, the concept that celebration of America's 2:51:52.440 --> 2:51:55.800 greatness and history is proper. And then the order goes 2:51:55.840 --> 2:51:58.279 on to try to ban the concept of white guilt, 2:51:58.840 --> 2:52:01.600 saying that like, teachers can get in trouble if any 2:52:01.640 --> 2:52:05.680 of their students feel guilty about things that people of 2:52:05.720 --> 2:52:07.600 like that same race have done in the past, and 2:52:07.640 --> 2:52:10.400 like making sure that teachers do not teach things in 2:52:10.440 --> 2:52:13.160 a way that could possibly make us students feel quote 2:52:13.200 --> 2:52:13.840 unquote guilt. 2:52:14.840 --> 2:52:18.160 They use the word children actually not students, which like 2:52:18.320 --> 2:52:20.560 is fundamentally something we don't do in education. 2:52:20.920 --> 2:52:21.040 Right. 2:52:21.080 --> 2:52:23.400 We refer to our students of students because we respect 2:52:23.400 --> 2:52:25.160 them as people. We don't think of them as like 2:52:25.760 --> 2:52:27.959 lesser than, especially when we're getting to the points where 2:52:27.959 --> 2:52:30.480 we're discussing things like race and equity, Like these are 2:52:30.560 --> 2:52:33.760 high school students, right, maybe we know we certainly do 2:52:33.800 --> 2:52:36.760 discuss these things in university, and like, it's fundamentally shows 2:52:36.800 --> 2:52:40.120 a complete lack of understanding of how education works to 2:52:40.160 --> 2:52:41.000 call them children. 2:52:41.440 --> 2:52:43.520 Yeah, And I think it gets to what this is 2:52:43.959 --> 2:52:45.960 actually about when this is something that I would argue 2:52:46.000 --> 2:52:49.119 both Trump administrations were about, right if you look at 2:52:49.160 --> 2:52:51.920 when Trump like comes down the fucking elevator for the 2:52:51.959 --> 2:52:55.720 first time. So I think people may remember, like after 2:52:55.760 --> 2:52:58.080 Ferguson in twenty fifteen, there was Baltimore where there was 2:52:58.160 --> 2:53:01.320 you know, huge riots, massive convers with the police, like 2:53:01.440 --> 2:53:04.080 massive anti racist actions. And that's the that's like the 2:53:04.120 --> 2:53:07.520 thing that really truly tipped like a bunch of the 2:53:07.520 --> 2:53:10.320 Republican Party even further right from where they'd been with 2:53:10.320 --> 2:53:12.600 the Tea Party into into this into sort of trump Ism. 2:53:12.640 --> 2:53:13.840 It was, you know, it was a reaction to that 2:53:13.879 --> 2:53:16.480 and then this entire campaign, right, like all of the 2:53:16.480 --> 2:53:18.640 stuff that he's talking about here, you know, this is 2:53:18.680 --> 2:53:22.000 about twenty twenty, right, this is about reversing the gains 2:53:22.080 --> 2:53:23.800 that had beened, you know, and like obviously they were 2:53:23.840 --> 2:53:26.000 incomplete gains. One of the things that did happen was 2:53:26.040 --> 2:53:29.560 that a bunch of teachers were trying to change the 2:53:29.600 --> 2:53:31.120 way the US history is taught to reflect that this 2:53:31.160 --> 2:53:33.879 country was like again, a settler colonial empire built by 2:53:33.920 --> 2:53:37.080 slave labor, and you know that that expanded its territory 2:53:37.080 --> 2:53:40.039 through genocide, which is just this is just objectively true 2:53:40.280 --> 2:53:42.600 about how the US started. But the thing is, like 2:53:42.640 --> 2:53:46.280 that's not good for you know, these people's projects, right, 2:53:46.360 --> 2:53:49.320 Like saying that out loud is a fucking issue for them. 2:53:49.400 --> 2:53:51.800 And so you know, their their attempt to roll back 2:53:51.959 --> 2:53:55.360 everything that was gained from sort of the Black uprisings 2:53:55.760 --> 2:53:57.600 is culminating all of this shit with like the purge 2:53:57.640 --> 2:54:00.040 of black workers for the federal government, with all of 2:54:00.080 --> 2:54:01.920 these things ordering you and like that's why they're talking 2:54:01.920 --> 2:54:03.720 about all of these weird all they keep banning all 2:54:03.760 --> 2:54:07.160 these weird like terms that don't make any sense, Like 2:54:07.160 --> 2:54:08.840 we were talking about like empathy, right, so like, okay, 2:54:08.840 --> 2:54:10.720 so why the fuck are they talking about banning empathy? Yeah, 2:54:10.720 --> 2:54:13.879 because specifically these things come from the purges they've been 2:54:13.879 --> 2:54:15.879 trying to do in the education system, where they have 2:54:15.879 --> 2:54:19.480 a bunch of very specific grievances about like kinds of 2:54:19.600 --> 2:54:23.120 education stuff that teachers the teachers were implementing, particularly in 2:54:23.160 --> 2:54:24.760 sort of like middle and high schools. 2:54:25.160 --> 2:54:26.840 Well, I'm going to close here with two pieces of 2:54:26.879 --> 2:54:29.920 breaking news. One, like, earlier today, we learned that the 2:54:30.040 --> 2:54:35.680 NAH has finally has finally acknowledged that the grant funding 2:54:35.720 --> 2:54:39.200 freeze is illegal. And this is probably like due to 2:54:39.280 --> 2:54:42.240 pressure from like news coverage about all of the temporary 2:54:42.280 --> 2:54:46.520 restraining order violations through the continued freezing of funds, and 2:54:46.720 --> 2:54:49.080 now the NH is saying, because of these orders, we 2:54:49.120 --> 2:54:53.360 will resume funding. The first tro was like two weeks ago, 2:54:54.000 --> 2:54:56.800 on February first, So it's not like like they just 2:54:56.959 --> 2:54:59.520 learned about this. It's that they have in some ways 2:54:59.520 --> 2:55:03.360 like perhaps caved to pressure. Again, like, these executive orders 2:55:03.360 --> 2:55:07.440 do not enforce themselves, These are enforced by people at agencies. 2:55:08.000 --> 2:55:10.760 These things do do not do not become automatically enforced. 2:55:10.840 --> 2:55:13.720 So this is this is like one one step now 2:55:14.080 --> 2:55:16.440 you can go to a popular dot info who has 2:55:16.480 --> 2:55:20.120 been breaking the news on this specifically, and then some 2:55:20.120 --> 2:55:23.200 some breaking news that I have here on drop site 2:55:23.520 --> 2:55:28.119 quote unquote armored Tesla forecast estimated to win four hundred 2:55:28.320 --> 2:55:31.720 million dollars of State Department contract funds. 2:55:32.000 --> 2:55:35.480 What So, this could go one of two ways. 2:55:35.879 --> 2:55:38.240 This could either go a really funny way, yeah it's 2:55:38.280 --> 2:55:40.400 kinda sha or it could go a really sad way. 2:55:40.560 --> 2:55:41.080 Yeah I do. 2:55:41.160 --> 2:55:43.480 I do like the idea of a lot of Trump 2:55:43.520 --> 2:55:47.600 appointees being in Tesla's that are armored when the batteries 2:55:47.680 --> 2:55:51.119 catch and maybe the jaws of life can't cut through those, 2:55:51.280 --> 2:55:53.279 you know, yep, yep. 2:55:53.400 --> 2:55:55.760 Yeah it was. This is very funny because Trump went 2:55:55.800 --> 2:55:59.800 off on a on a cotangent about electric tank horrible idea, 2:56:00.120 --> 2:56:03.400 paintrat a couple of times, horrible idea. Yeah, Well he's 2:56:03.440 --> 2:56:05.480 had he's had to come to Jesus moment and he 2:56:05.520 --> 2:56:08.040 has changed his mind and he wants a more sustainable 2:56:08.200 --> 2:56:10.000 sure beast as they called it. 2:56:10.080 --> 2:56:12.520 What everyone always says, the problem with tanks is is 2:56:12.520 --> 2:56:15.440 that they don't explode enough when hit by munitions or 2:56:15.440 --> 2:56:19.160 by themselves, when not hit by being by themselves, just because. 2:56:18.840 --> 2:56:20.560 Batteries do that sometimes. 2:56:20.640 --> 2:56:23.480 Yes, yeah, you never know what you're going to get. 2:56:23.680 --> 2:56:25.600 I'm excited. This is going to make everything a lot 2:56:25.640 --> 2:56:29.160 safer for our our our men and women in Greenland. 2:56:29.320 --> 2:56:29.840 I'm guessing. 2:56:30.959 --> 2:56:35.120 Yeah, batteries. Batteries thrive in the cold, red, white and 2:56:35.160 --> 2:56:35.680 blue lid. 2:56:37.320 --> 2:56:39.600 Yeah. I do love the new m one a whatever 2:56:39.840 --> 2:56:42.480 seven abrams that gets four miles on a chart. 2:56:43.320 --> 2:56:45.520 And then again detonates wait. 2:56:45.400 --> 2:56:48.480 Six months to use a solar panel to field recharge. 2:56:48.520 --> 2:56:51.000 At least it doesn't get light for six months. 2:56:51.040 --> 2:56:53.880 Yeah, magnificent upwards of ten miles a year. 2:56:54.000 --> 2:56:56.280 Yes, yep, all right, well that is it for us 2:56:56.280 --> 2:56:58.920 today on it could happen here, James things. Do you 2:56:58.920 --> 2:57:00.840 want to talk about the tip point again? 2:57:01.480 --> 2:57:01.680 Yeah? 2:57:01.800 --> 2:57:04.520 Yeah, So everybody, we have an email where you can 2:57:04.560 --> 2:57:06.320 reach out to us if you have things that you 2:57:06.400 --> 2:57:08.959 think we should be reporting on. It is a proton mail. 2:57:09.080 --> 2:57:12.080 That doesn't mean that it's super secure. It simply means 2:57:12.120 --> 2:57:13.920 it's sent to end encrypted. If you send from a 2:57:13.959 --> 2:57:18.960 proton address. The email address is cool Zone tips at 2:57:19.000 --> 2:57:24.360 proton dot me me. You can send story ideas, things 2:57:24.360 --> 2:57:25.760 that you think we should be reporting on, things that 2:57:25.800 --> 2:57:27.280 you've seen that you think you'd like to. 2:57:27.320 --> 2:57:31.600 Draw to our attention to that email address. We will 2:57:32.000 --> 2:57:34.160 try our best to get through all of those. 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