1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a gorgeous young 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: girl who was a victim of a sex assault, a rape, 3 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: get the courage to go forward with that, make a 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: complaint and then end up murdered. I'm Nancy Grace, this 5 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 6 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and series XIM one eleven. I'm talking 7 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: about Carla Dominguez Gonzalez. Why is she dead? How did 8 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: that happen? Since when do you get the death penalty? 9 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: Because you're brave? First of all, take a listen to this. 10 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: In October, thirty one year old Carla Dominguez Gonzalez called 11 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: police to report she had been sexually assaulted by Abraham Buyachi. 12 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: Investigators charged Bulyachi with six felonies rape, sodomy, strangulation, abduction, burglary, 13 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 1: and malicious wounding. The thirty three year old turned himself 14 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: in and he was held without bond. At a preliminary 15 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 1: hearing before Alexandria General District Court Chief Judge Donald M. 16 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: Haddick in December, Karla Dominguez Gonzalez testified that the incident 17 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: in her apartment on October tenth was violent and not consensual. 18 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: Judge Haddick found probable cause to send the case to 19 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: a grand jury and denied a request to allow Buyachi 20 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: to post bond. The grand jury indicted Buyachi on five 21 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: charges rape, sodomy, strangulation, abduction, and burglary. So this guy, 22 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 1: this rapist, is given no bond. The judge was wise. 23 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: There was a preliminary hearing. Now, in many jurisdictions, a 24 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: case either goes to a grand jury, which is twenty 25 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: to forty people they're taking off the voter registration list. 26 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: Usually they meet one to two times a week. In 27 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: most jurisdictions. They listen to bare bones evidence, just one witness, 28 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: very often, and they decide is there enough evidence for 29 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: an indictment a formal charge. Then there's a formal charge 30 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: or a no bill. In other words, they don't charge. 31 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: The indictments then are funnel through to judges in various 32 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: courts of the courthouse. And my jurisdiction was done by number, 33 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: so favorites were never play. One deck could get ten 34 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: stuffy shotliftings. In the next week I could get five murders. 35 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: It was all done by computer. There's another way a judge. 36 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: Here's a preliminary hearing. Here's the evidence, witnesses are brought forward, 37 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: usually just enough to make out the case, and then 38 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: the judge decides is there enough evidence to bind the 39 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: case over to misdemeanor or felony court? And that's what 40 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 1: happened here. Ibrahm Biachi was bound over on multiple felonies, 41 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: including and kidnapping. His victim, Carla Gonzalez, had to testify 42 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: about her rape and her ordeal in open court. So 43 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: why did she get the death penalty? Again? Thank you 44 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation Series eleven 45 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: with me an all star panel. First of all, veteran 46 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: trial lawyer in multiple jurisdictions, New York criminal defense attorney 47 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: Ken Belkin at Belkin Law dot com. Doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis, psychologist, 48 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: adjunct Professor, Columbia University at Debbie Joffe Ellis dot com, 49 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: Forensics expert, host of Shattered Souls podcast, Lecturer University Florida. 50 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 51 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: and author Blood Beneath My Feet Death investigator, but first 52 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: to Sierra Gillespie Crimoline dot com investigative reporter. Sierra, First 53 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to this. The sexual assault 54 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: trial of Abraham Buyanci was originally scheduled to begin on 55 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: March thirtieth, and his attorneys were preparing a defense that 56 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: Ibraham Buianci and Carla Domingez Gonzales were boyfriend girlfriend, but 57 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: the coronavirus pandemic put all court action on hold, even 58 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: though Buianchi had been held without bail since he turned 59 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: himself in on October twenty first, His lawyers argued that 60 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: the virus was a danger to inmates as well as 61 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: their attorneys, and that Buianchi should be freed while awaiting trial. 62 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: On April ninth, Circuit Court Judge Nolan Dawkins released Buyachi 63 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: on twenty five thousand dollars bond, with the condition that 64 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: he only leave his home in Maryland to meet with 65 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: lawyers or pre trial service officials. Okay, hold on, Sierra Gillestio, 66 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: I was coming to you, but let me just first 67 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: go to you. Ken Bell can really twenty five thousand 68 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: dollars bond? We all know they only have to put 69 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: up ten percent of that. That's twenty five hundred dollars. 70 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: And also the defense to a VI kidnapping and rape 71 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: and strangulation is their boyfriend girlfriend. I'm sorry, I don't 72 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: remember that defense in law school. Yeah, what is that? Yeah? 73 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 1: The fact that your boyfriend and girlfriend is not a 74 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: very viable defense. Now, look with respect of their bail. 75 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: This is emblematic of a pattern we're seeing play out 76 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: across the country, and especially up here in New York 77 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: City where I am. They judges are very susceptible to 78 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: the argument that because of COVID, it's a hardship and 79 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: our prisons are not equipped to deal with this sort 80 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: of viral outbreak, and as such, bail conditions should be modified, 81 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: defendants should be released. The reality is in prison is 82 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: probably one of the few places where you have a 83 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: constitutional right to adequate medical care. You're guaranteed to get 84 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: medical care in prison. You're not guaranteed to get it 85 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: outside in the real world. You know, I love the 86 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: way you play. Look here, not there? All right? I 87 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: start talking about COVID and the prisons system and the 88 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: treatment system. Why in the h E double L did 89 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: this Judge Nolan Dawkins think that the rapist I'll just 90 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: put it out there, because she was physically attacked with 91 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: obvious injuries, She had a rape kit done she goes 92 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: to testifies in court and they claim boyfriend girlfriend is 93 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 1: the defense. Like that somehow it makes us put in 94 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: perfume on the pig, like that makes it better, somehow 95 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: easier to take the stench off the stink. No, because 96 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: what it means Ken Belkin is first of all, a 97 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: rape suspect. Says, that didn't happen. I don't know her, 98 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,559 Speaker 1: I've never seen her. Then it turns out, oh, here's 99 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: Surilla's video of you in the bar, and there you 100 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: are talking to her. Oh her, Yeah, she was just 101 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: beside me in the bar. I don't know her. Okay, 102 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: so now we've defeated that claim that they never met. 103 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: Then it's witnesses saw you leaving the bar. Oh yeah, 104 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: I walked her to her car. She invited me to 105 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: walk her to her car. I had nothing to do 106 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: with that. Now I remember I did walk her to 107 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: the car, really, and no sex, No, No, I never 108 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: touched her. I walked her to the car. Well, then, 109 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: why is your seamen on her clothes and in her body? 110 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: You know what, now that I think of it, I 111 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: think she she wanted me. She was after me from 112 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: the get go. Yeah, you know what you're right, we 113 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: made out in the car. Well, what about the bruises 114 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: on her neck? She liked it rough. Okay, See that's 115 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: how that works. You start with I've never met her. 116 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, too. She likes 117 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: it rough. So the boyfriend girlfriend thing, that's not really 118 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: working for me, Ken Belkin, Yeah, it's not really working 119 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: for me. And I can tell you this, if I 120 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: was this defense attorney, I would be employing a much 121 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: different strategy because that ship had sailed and that story 122 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: has changed multiple times. Well, I guarantee Keim Belkin, this 123 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: is what the defense lawyer was thinking. There's probably DNA. 124 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: Jessica Morgan, Professor forensic Jackson State University. When I say DNA, 125 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: let's just be blunt, all right, it's sperm in and 126 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: on her body. So there's no way that he can 127 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: say it wasn't me. So how overwhelming statistically can a 128 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: DNA deoxyriboni clake acid result b How specific can it be? 129 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: The odds are like in the millions up into the 130 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: billions sometimes, Nancy, where we're talking about what are the 131 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: chances that it could be someone else other than this person? 132 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: You know, years ago, all we had to rely on. 133 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: Prior to DNA was syrology, where we would look for 134 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: people that would secrete blood cells into their seamen. And 135 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: you know we're only talking about abo groups relative to that. 136 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: This has taken this all to another level, and he 137 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: knows this. I'm sure it's specificity that this is all 138 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: hanging on. That's what makes this so difficult for the 139 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: defense because who else could it have been? So he 140 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 1: has no other choice but to say, well, yeah, I 141 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: was in proximity to her, but this is something else. 142 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: He has to be able to explain it well and 143 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: defense counsel has to as well. And these are very 144 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: difficult odds to be clime stories with Nancy Grace, the 145 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: guys we're talking about now, a murdered, beautiful young woman, 146 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: beautiful on the inside and the outside. Carl Unclenzalez, it's 147 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: a good thing trials strategy wise, that the prosecutor did 148 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: put her up at preliminary hearing for her testimony under 149 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: oath and on the record. I never like to do that. 150 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: I don't like preliminary hearings. Why because I put up 151 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: enough of the case to get the case bound over 152 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: to felony court to go to a pettit or jury 153 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: of twelve versus a grand jury of forty. And when 154 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing that preliminary hearing, the defense has a right 155 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: to cross examine my witnesses before the jury trial. I 156 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: don't like that, but in this case, fortuitously, I'm glad 157 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: our testimony was preserved. Take a listen to Police Chief 158 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: Michael Brown. Ibrahim Buigi is one er for the July 159 00:10:54,720 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: twenty ninth murder of Miss Carla Elizabeth Domingu's Gonzals. The 160 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: murder occurred at approximately six twenty in the morning in 161 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: the fourteen hundred block of South Greenmont Drive in the 162 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: city of Alexandria. Attempts to locate mister Buigi have been 163 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,599 Speaker 1: unsuccessful and we are asking for the public's help in 164 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: locating him. Buigi is described as a thirty three year 165 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: old Middle Eastern mail six foot two a weighing approximately 166 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty pounds. Luigi is considered armed and 167 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: dangers and poses a potential threat to anyone who comes 168 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: in contact with him. You're hearing the police Chief Michael 169 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: Brown reporting what happened. Muichi on the run. At this point, 170 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: they have no idea where he is. Take a listen 171 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: to Washington DC NBC News drew a Wilder Carlo Dominguez. 172 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: Rodriguez was found shot and killed near her apartment at 173 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: town Square, just off of North Beauregard Street on July 174 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: twenty ninth. Alexandria City police think this is her killer, 175 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: thirty three year old Ibram Buachi. Attempt to locate MISTERI 176 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: had been unsuccessful, and we were asking for the public 177 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: soul in locating him. Police Chief Michael Brown says Buachi 178 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: is a threat to anyone he comes in contact with, 179 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: and to consider him armed and dangerous. We spoke with 180 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: a woman who lives in the complex where the shooting happened. 181 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: She asked us not to show her face. I also 182 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: heard that the man was not captured, and so that's 183 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: kind of disturbing. Police a. Buachi was last known to 184 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: drive a stolen black two thousand and thirteen Nissan all 185 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: to missedan. I haven't even thought about, you know, whether 186 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,079 Speaker 1: or not he would come back. A go fund me 187 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: for the victim says all of her family lives in Venezuela. 188 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: A spokesperson for the city says Gonzalez was well known 189 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: back home for competing in beauty pageants. The spokesperson says, 190 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: there have already been memorials for Gonzalez in Venezuela, while 191 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: detectives here searched for her killer and joining me Sierra 192 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: Gillespie Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Sierra Gillespie. How 193 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: in the world did this judge Nolan Dawkins think it 194 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: was a good idea to let Voichi go released on 195 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: twenty five hundred dollars. I mean, the eye is already 196 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: driving a stolen car. He can get money, so if 197 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: he can get wheels like that, he can get money. 198 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: Why was his life And as ken Belkin pointed out, 199 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: would the best care the state can provide behind bars 200 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: on rape, kidnaps, triangulation more important than the innocent victim, 201 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: the beauty queen Carlo Gonzalez? What what was the judge thinking? 202 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: What happened? Honestly, Nancy, hindsight is twenty twenty, so at 203 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: this point we know it was clearly the wrong decision, 204 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: and I think a lot of people would actually argue 205 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: it was the wrong decision. Even at the time people 206 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: knew that he was a threat, especially if this woman, 207 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: the beautiful beauty, the queen was arguing that he had 208 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: raped her. It was clearly not the right decision. But 209 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: since then the judge has actually retired and he has 210 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: not made any comments about this since because now we 211 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: do know defeats of what happened to Carla Domingo Gondalez. Well, my, 212 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: my my, isn't that convenient to doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis 213 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: a joke Professor Columbia Debbie Joffe Ellis dot com. Wow, 214 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: so this judge can just retire with full benefits, kick 215 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 1: back with his feet up, and not issue a comment 216 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: on the dead victum. I guess being a judge doesn't 217 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: make one a saint. I mean, there's the element of 218 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: all any of us. All of us can make a mistake, 219 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: and it can be a minute, Doctor Debbie, hold on 220 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: just a second. To me, A mistake is when I 221 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: forget to get the blueberries at the grocery store, I 222 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: forget to fill the car up place to pick up 223 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: a tie dye T shirt. Lucy left her a little 224 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: friend's house. I forgot it. That's a mistake. When you 225 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: have a prosecutor and a victim begging, you do not 226 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: let this guy out, I'm afraid, and you do it anyway. 227 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: That's not a mistake, doctor Debby, That's a calculated decision 228 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: that caused this girl her life. Would you like to rephrase, Well, 229 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: perhaps the word mistake in this context was a little 230 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: too mild for you. I mean, well, a little too mild. Okay, 231 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: all right, I'm not denying that's a little too mild. Yeah. Look, 232 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm not denying that he's screwed up. I mean, no 233 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: way defending him, I mean way in no way. But 234 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: we can dwell on why did he do it? The 235 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: fact is he did. Yeah, I want to know why 236 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: I did it, so judges and the futures don't do 237 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: it again. Yeah, well, then he would have to perhaps 238 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: do some sort of cognitive test so that I don't 239 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: know how much that would prove stars. Are you trying 240 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: to say he had a meal of deficient, say you 241 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: had an illness? No, I'm not, Nancy. I'm trying to 242 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: be somewhat humorous. Because we can't read his mind. I 243 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: can't from here, so I don't know what was going on. 244 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: Whether we can't say he did or didn't have malicious intent. 245 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: My hunches more towards negligence. And yes, I know you 246 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: think I tend to be more kind. But the bottom 247 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: line is we don't is the word. I think that 248 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: you are seeing violent criminals through rose colored glasses, and 249 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a psychological name for that. But let 250 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: me just tell you. This woman went through hell when 251 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: he kidnapped, attacked, strangled her, and raped her. Then she 252 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: had to have a rape kit, which is a pelvic exam. 253 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: Then she has to go and testify and relive the 254 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: whole ordeal again in front of people she doesn't know, 255 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: including a judge. Do you know how much I hate 256 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Debbie When people ei the Blue bring up to 257 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: me my fiance's murder and it happened a long time ago. 258 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: I can be having a perfectly fine day and somebody 259 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: brings that up. I feel like I got kicked in 260 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: the mouth. I hate it. I don't want to relive it. 261 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about it. It feels like 262 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: I have to go through it all over again, and 263 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: I can be sad over it for days on end. 264 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: My twins don't need a sad mommy, they need a 265 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: happy mommy. So here's this girl has to get up 266 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: and relive the whole thing, be re traumatized and that's 267 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: just the preliminary hearing and subjects herself to cross exam 268 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: by the defense lawyer. She's still got to do the 269 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: whole thing again at trial. So this girl's been through 270 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: h E double L already. Well, what is that when 271 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: you don't want to talk about a trauma, you don't 272 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: want to relive it? What's the psychological name for that? Well, 273 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: there could be a few. It could be avoidance, it 274 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: could be resistance. It's understandable, it's self protection. You know, 275 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: one doesn't want to suffer. Our natural inclination as healthy humans, 276 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: if we are, is to go towards feeling happy or 277 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: positive emotions. So it's not a mystery that we don't 278 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: want to do that. It can be, as you've described, 279 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: very clearly agonizing, agonizing. But you are asking about the 280 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: judge and his wrong decision, horrible decision. Yeah. Yeah, And 281 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: the fact is I'm saying, perhaps the obvious to most 282 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: of us, life isn't there. And with justice in many 283 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: cases and things happened, Tsunami's happened, you know, some people die. 284 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: This beautiful woman Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're 285 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: talking about a young lady who was raped strangled, kidnapped 286 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: by Ibraham Boichi. He was let out of jail after 287 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: his arrest, and then he goes and shoots her dead. 288 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: Now I've just spoken to, by all accounts, a renowned 289 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: psychologist who's a professor professor Colombia. I mean, that's nothing 290 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: to sneeze at, doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis. And she, in 291 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: her wisdom, has compared a judge's decision to let this 292 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,360 Speaker 1: guy walk free to go kill as victim. She compared 293 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: it to it an act of nature, a tragic cacti storm. 294 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: You said a tsunami. I don't think a tsunami is 295 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: intentionally planned by anyone, although some people claim as God 296 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: releasing his wrath. I don't believe that. I think it's 297 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: a convergence of medial meteorological factors and you have a tsunami. 298 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: This judge did it on purpose. I mean, Ken Belkin, 299 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: help me. Look, you know, the reality is, as I 300 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: said before, in prison, you're guaranteed to get good health care, 301 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: and in many cases people in prison are getting better 302 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: health care than people outside. That's a fact. The state 303 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: has to provide it to you. You have a constitutional 304 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: right when in their customy the reality is this guy 305 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: was thirty three, He was not, by all accounts, particularly 306 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: susceptible to the worst effects of the coronavirus, and this 307 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: judge fit to give him release conditions bond twenty five 308 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: thousand dollars bond and pretrial services we're supposed to monitor him. 309 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: I don't see that pretrial services did any monitoring. This 310 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: guy went out and committed a murder of the victim 311 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: and chief witness in the case against him. But the 312 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: hell of a monitoring they did on him. Yeah, thank you, 313 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: thank you AUS for to give up cursing. So I 314 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: can't exactly say that, Okay, I agree with you they did. 315 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: Apologies for the language. Oh guys, take a listen to 316 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: our friend at Fox five DC. This is Tisha Lewis. 317 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: We're steps away from the courthouse where all these decisions 318 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: are being made, and we are told, though without commenting 319 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: on a specific case, a spokesperson for the city says 320 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: that ultimately it is up to the judge. The judge alone, 321 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: on a case by case decides about these releases due 322 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: to the coronavirus. But it's important to note that there's 323 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: no specific mandate or notification process for notating if a 324 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: case or if an innimate is being released due to 325 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. Now what we can say is the city 326 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: says that the only way to know for sure if 327 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: someone was released due to the coronavirus pandemic would be 328 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: to read the transcript of any bond hearing, which again 329 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: still would not have to include the premise of the release. 330 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: This new information comes as two inmates across our area 331 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: were released due to COVID nineteen and then went on 332 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: to allegedly commit murder. Thirty three year old Ibraheim Bowichi 333 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: reportedly raped, strangled, and abducted Carla Dominguez back in October. 334 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: She testified against him in December, and he was in 335 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: jail and Alexandria being held without bond when it was 336 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: released in April due to COVID nineteen concerns and safety 337 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: measures in the jails. He's accused of fatally shooting Dominguez 338 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: on July twenty ninth. She is dead, Her family left 339 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: to mourn and made to try to figure out what 340 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: the hey happened? What went wrong? Joining me in All 341 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: Star panels here at Gillespie, Joe Scott, Morgan, Karen Smith, 342 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:57,719 Speaker 1: doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis and Ken Belkin to you. Karen Smith, 343 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:04,239 Speaker 1: forensics expert host Shattered Souls podcast. We know that she 344 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: was brutally raped and strangled. She was very persuasive on 345 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: the stand. The judge believed her at the preliminary hearing. 346 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 1: What evidence do you believe was brought forward at the 347 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: preliminary hearing to convince the judge that this should be 348 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: tried in front of a felony jury. We've already talked 349 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: about the seaman evidence that they've obviously found. You have 350 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 1: photographs of the bruises on her neck, you have her 351 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: own testimony. Fancy, I am gritting my teeth. I am 352 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: so angry right now because, bottom line, to put a 353 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: button on it, Carla Dominguez Gonzalez should be alliance right now, 354 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: and but for the actions of this judge allowing the 355 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: release of a vicious, horrible felon into the general population 356 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: of this country, she is now dead. And frankly, I 357 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: am really upset because of the retired cop. Now the 358 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: ONUS has put back on the cop to go find him, 359 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: when their resources could be better put toward preventing crime, 360 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: toward boots on the ground. They're dealing with COVID. This 361 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: is ridiculous. I don't know where common sense has gone, Nancy, 362 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: it has gone out the window. Well, I guarantee you this. 363 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: I guarantee you this. Judge Nolan Dawkins heard the word 364 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: boyfriend girlfriend as the defense and suddenly decided that rapeist triangulations. 365 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: Back to Jo Scott Morgan, professor Forensics, chasevill State University, 366 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: author Blood Beneath My Feet Jesscot Morgan, all of this 367 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: is a travesty. I'm thinking about Carla Domingus Gonzalez. They're 368 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: afraid she may have had no idea this guy was 369 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: even out. Did you hear what the earlier reporter said 370 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: that the only way to find doubt if somebody gets 371 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: out on bonds. If you read the transcript for the 372 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: bond hearing. Have I ever told you this? Joe Scott 373 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: I was working at Court TV, thirty ninth and Third 374 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: Avenue in New York. I got off the air. I 375 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: had been there since about five thirty that morning, went 376 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: to my office, turn on the computer, saw an email 377 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: from a viewer, opened it up and they told me 378 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: my fiancee's murderer had gotten out on parole. I didn't know. 379 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: I knew nothing about it. His family knew nothing about it. 380 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: It was a big surprise. I forgot how the viewer 381 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: found out. I think she had must have looked up 382 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: the case and found out the killer was out walking free. 383 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: How do you the fact that a victim has to 384 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: get a hold of the bond hearing transcript of five 385 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: find out what happened? Did you hear that, Joe Scott? Yeah? 386 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: I did. It's obscene. And let me tell you something else. 387 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: When she was shot, Nancy, this is not like they 388 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: just happened to bump into one another in the late evening, 389 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: maybe going out for a bite to eat, and they 390 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: just happened to be in the same spot. This happened 391 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: early in the morning. This animal was stalking her. He 392 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: waited outside where she was living, and he gunned her down. 393 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: And let me tell you something else that's significant about this. 394 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: After all the reading that I've done on this case, Nancy, 395 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: do you realize that for the year twenty twenty, this 396 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: was the first number one first homicide in this jurisdiction, 397 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 1: the first So back to the judge, just for a second, 398 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: your honor, what else did you have on the docket? 399 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: That day that was so freaking pressing that you couldn't 400 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: ensure that he's going to be safe. You didn't need 401 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: to have the wherewithal, the forethought in your brilliant mind 402 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: to make this guy wearing an ankle monitor and another thing. 403 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: He's so violent, Nancy, we talk about the violence that 404 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: was inflicted. Let's talk about this. She was raped, she 405 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: was beaten, she was sodomized, Nancy, she was terrorized. And 406 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: so you're gonna cut this guy loose and just say, well, sugar, 407 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: you just stay at home, and we're gonna rely upon 408 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: this twenty five thousand dollars bond to keep you indoors, 409 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: and you're not gonna do anything else. And it's not 410 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: just about her. I want to know where this guy lived, 411 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: because if you cut him loose and he has this indication, 412 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: he wasn't convicted, but he has this indication of this 413 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: level of violence. I mean, this is animalistic, Nancy, it's brutal. 414 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: You're gonna let him live. Let's say he lived in 415 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: an apartment somewhere. Well, how do you know there's not 416 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: young children, other defenseless women that are living immediately adjacent 417 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: to him? And you're gonna cut him loose and let 418 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: him introduce him back into society without any kind of controls. 419 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: Have you lost your mind? Well, apparently it was temporary insanity, 420 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: because I gotta tell you he's destroyed. He ripped her 421 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: to shreds. Here's one more thing, and I'll shut my mouth. 422 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: How in the I'll say it? How in the hell 423 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: does this guy have a firearm? He is so violent, Nancy. 424 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: If he's that violent, why didn't somebody go to his home, 425 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 1: rifle through his home because he is a danger to 426 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: the public, and say, these are the controls, These are 427 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: as the stipulations. You cannot be in possession of a firearm. 428 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: How does he have a pistol? How does he have 429 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: the ability to possess one? When he's staring down bad 430 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: choice of words, the barrel of these kind of charges, 431 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: and then he's cut loose. This guy, this judge, this 432 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: judge should be held to account, and also the people 433 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: that are supposed to be quote unquote monitoring Hill crime 434 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a 435 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 1: travesty and a tragedy. A violent criminal who strangles, rapes, kidnaps, sodomizes, 436 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: gorgeous young girl, a beauty queen, is then given bond. 437 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: He kills her. Now Joe Scott, while we're on it, 438 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: let me give you the sour icing to top the 439 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: poisonous cake. I hope you're sitting down. You may need 440 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: to lay down for this. Buatchie had another run in 441 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: with the law, run in euphemism just before the shooting 442 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: in Now remember I believe didn't he get bond in April? 443 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: Didn't know when doc has given bond in April? Get 444 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: ready everybody. In May, one month later, he is arrested 445 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: by green Belt police over a hold up alarm at 446 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: a Wendy's. Cops saved why he was acting strangely in 447 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: the drive through, became uncooperative with police arrest. Had charged 448 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: with two counts a first degree assault, to count secondary assault, 449 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: harming a law enforcement dog, resisting arrest, driving drunk. After 450 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: he got out on bond in April on rape and 451 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: strangulation in sodomy. He was then released May eleven, with 452 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: Alexandra officials saying we didn't know. We would have revoked 453 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: his bond if we knew. There's nothing you can tell 454 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: Carlos family that's going to make them feel any better. 455 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I almost wish they didn't know about this. 456 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: Did you know that Joe Scott he was actually a 457 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: arrested and a Windy's drive through. No I didn't, and 458 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: attacked a police dog in May after his release in April, 459 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: No I had no idea. I thought that my head 460 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: was going to explode. It has now officially exploded. This again, 461 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: is an indication, you know, it's It doesn't a disservice 462 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 1: to simply say, well, the left hand doesn't know what 463 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: the right hands doing. You know, that's okay if you're 464 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: if you're out working on a house, or if you're 465 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: out working on a car or something like that. We're 466 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: talking about people's lives here. You know that that the courts, 467 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: that the courts in this system would be this dismissive 468 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: and this event because who all. I mean, you've already 469 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: got an indication that he's a danger, and now you're 470 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: going to talk about he gets involved getting kakey with 471 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: the police and attacking a police dog as well, you 472 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: know to what extent and I know what we can say, well, 473 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: he's got some kind of this poor thing has got 474 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: some kind of psychopathology going on. He just needed hell Yeah, Well, 475 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, the squirrel needed help too, and in the balance, 476 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: apparently his needs outweighed her. It's not the first time 477 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: an instant like this has occurred. Take a listen to 478 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: cut fourteen our friends at k in pH Fox twenty six. 479 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: This is reporter Marie Atinger. Just two and a half 480 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 1: weeks ago, thirty seven year old Eric Simmons was arrested 481 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: on charges of rape, robbery, battery, assault with a deadly weapon. 482 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: He also had an outstanding morn for spousal abuse. He 483 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: posted bond and got out. Now he's back in jail, 484 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: arrested for eight new felony counts spousal abuse again, plus autothaft, 485 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: looting in other charges. That's the worst part, because you know, 486 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: we do this to protect the public from becoming a victim. 487 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: And to know you have somebody in your grasp and 488 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: you're locking them up and the next day they're out 489 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: and now they're victimizing somebody new And how do you 490 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: explain that to that person that, hey, I just rest 491 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: of this guy yesterday and I'm sorry. I wish I 492 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: could have protected you, but my hands were tied. On 493 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: April twenty third, Simmons was arrested for running from police, 494 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: driving on a suspended license, and drug charges. His bail 495 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: would have been fifty eight thousand bucks, but the zero 496 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 1: dollars bail rule meant he didn't know a dime. Well, 497 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: that was defendant Eric Simmons take a listen to our 498 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: friends across the country. At w STM CNY Central News, 499 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: Lauren khalil Da William Fitzpatrick says the incident never should 500 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: have happened in the first place. Mister Mobley is dead 501 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: because of your new law, that law, bail reform. According 502 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: to Fitzpatrick, Mowbli had a history of run ins with 503 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: the law. He had been charged earlier in the year 504 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: with the burglary. We're investigating information that he may have 505 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: been involved in some arsons. He clearly had no disrespect 506 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: to the dead, but he clearly had some mental health issues. 507 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: You put that together, and any judge in the past 508 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: would have said, this individual is going to be held 509 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: without bail until such time as his mental health issues 510 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: are addressed. Fitzpatrick says the judge did exactly what he 511 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: was supposed to do in accordance with the new bail 512 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: reform law. As for the Syracuse Police, officer involved in 513 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: the deadly shooting. He's been released from the hospital and 514 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: his name will be released in the next few days 515 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: as prosecutors and police continue to investigate. There you have 516 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: people losing their allies, a cop in the hospital because 517 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: of bail reform, judges making horrible decisions not convinced. Take 518 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: listen to cut thirteen our friends at WRGB CBS six. 519 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: All the states new bail laws tangled up Troy police 520 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: in a loop of catch and release. They arrested Scott 521 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,760 Speaker 1: Nolan three times in seven hours Yesterday. Around nine am, 522 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: they arrested him and charged him for shoplifting. He was 523 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: released with an appearance ticket. Hours later, they say he 524 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: assaulted a man. Just before two thirty, he was arrested 525 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: and released again. Then just before four thirty, they say 526 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: he hit another person with a brick. Police charged him 527 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 1: with second degree attempted assault and third degree criminal possession 528 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: of a weapon, which kept him in custody. They just 529 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: basically become reactive instead of a proactive police department. Nicholas 530 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: Laviano was the president of Troy's police union. He says 531 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: the department knows Nolan well, and he says this isn't 532 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: Nolan's first run in with the department back in January, 533 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: police charged him with criminal mischief and released him. They 534 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 1: say they caught him committing the same crime hours later. 535 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: Laviano says Nolan's criminal history is fifty pages long and 536 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: that has to be printed out every time he's arrested. 537 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: He says that process uses up time and taxpayer moneys 538 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: a bit of a morale killer. They know that they're 539 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 1: not out there doing the real police work that they 540 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: want to be doing. Ken Belkin, did you hear that? 541 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: Ken Belkin is joining me in New York? Defense attorney 542 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: Belkin Law dot Com. A fifty page rap sheet. Believe 543 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: it or not, I've seen one that long made my 544 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: stomach turn. Fifty pages. It's not impossible. This guy's walking 545 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: around with a break in his hand. I have certainly 546 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: represented people with rap sheets that long in my day, 547 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: and let they tell you if you're not proud of it, look, 548 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,479 Speaker 1: I do the best they can for these people. I'd 549 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: like to think that the end of the day, I've 550 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 1: helped their lives on some level. You know, it's it's 551 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: not a cartoonist thing where it's like, oh, I got 552 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: him off, he's free to go to mccrimes. I'd like 553 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: to see my clients get help when they need it. 554 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: But the fact of the matter is there are forces 555 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: in this country and you see them at work here 556 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,320 Speaker 1: in New York City where and they want to undo 557 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: our bail laws. And in New York right now there 558 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: is a five page list of crimes that judges are 559 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 1: prohibited from setting bail on right now in New York City. Now, 560 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: add to that, there are bail fund organizations out there 561 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: that when judges, in the limited circumstances that judges are 562 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 1: even allowed to set bail these days, these bail funds 563 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: will post the bail for these defendants. And what happens 564 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: is the purpose of bail is that you don't trust 565 00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: this defendant's going to come back to court, so you 566 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,399 Speaker 1: want to hold something over them rather than put them 567 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: in jail, and we hold some money and if they 568 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,319 Speaker 1: come back to court make all their appearances, they get 569 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: that money back. These bail funds and these reforms totally 570 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,800 Speaker 1: defeat the purpose. If someone else is paying the bail, 571 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: when a judge can even set it, what is the 572 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: incentive for someone to come back to court. You know, 573 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: I want to go to doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis and 574 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: John Professor, Columbia University, renowned psychologist, doctor Debbie, and just 575 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: thinking about how you would feel keep defending these people 576 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: and but a guy like that coming at you with 577 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: a brick. I mean, there are people they may need help. 578 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: I want them to have help, but I don't want 579 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 1: them released and unleashed on the public. I couldn't agree 580 00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 1: with you more, Nancy. And I'm a psycholog, I'm not 581 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: a lawyer. I wish there were ways that you could 582 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: hold judges accountable when they make unbelievably wrong decisions. So 583 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: I think we're on the same page. Frankly, the end 584 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: of that is defendant. He goes missing, Corps can't find him, 585 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 1: he shoots himself. I don't have to worry about him 586 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: hurting anybody else. But the ailment in our justice system remains, 587 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: and there will be other Croa Dominguez's innocent victims if 588 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: we don't act. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing up, Goodbye,