WEBVTT - IAEA Director General Grossi Talks Iran's Nuclear Questions 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:08.640 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Meanwhile, we do need 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.719 to turn back to the Iran war because the International 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.640 Atomic Energy Agency says that it has lost contact with 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:21.680 Iran's Atomic Safety Regulator. Now, the IAEA Director General, Raphael 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.120 Grossi joins us now live from Vienna. We also want 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.320 to welcome our radio audience for this conversation as well, 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.320 Director General. That is exactly where I want to start, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.600 and it's what the channel of communication looks like with 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.040 Iron right now and what you're doing to try to 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:38.040 re establish it. 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:39.400 Well. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.839 Yes, of course, we have to consider that we are 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:49.519 in a war situation, so communications are not as smooth 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.560 and easy as they should normally. Eb you've seen that 0:00:55.320 --> 0:01:01.200 even dignitaries and have had from iranficulty, and the Foreign 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.520 Minister for example, was one of those accepted. So we 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:10.560 have as normal part of our operations channels of communication 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:15.920 with different institutions in the nuclear establishment so to speak 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.680 in Iran, including the nuclear regulator, and we haven't been 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.039 able to communicate with them. That doesn't mean we have 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.600 no communication with Iran. We are in contact with the 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.640 Permanent Mission here in Vienna, and we have other channels 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:32.440 of communication as well, So it's partly concerning, but that 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:34.520 doesn't mean that we are not talking to. 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.480 Them well to that point. I mean, what has the 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:40.840 outright outreach looked like from Arian? Are they reaching out 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:42.480 to you or are you reaching out to them or 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:44.119 some sort of mixture. 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:48.320 Here, it's a mix. We have to consider that up 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:49.360 until next week. 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:50.320 Sorry. 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.480 Last week, sorry, we had an ongoing negotiation, and then 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:58.720 of course war started on Saturday morning, which changes everything. 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:05.360 So I guess that at the moment we cannot go 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.880 back to business as usual, although what we were having 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:13.400 was no longer business as usual since June twenty twenty 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.160 five with the Twelfth Day War, so the conditions and 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.560 the communications were not as smooth as they used to 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.720 be in the past. So at the moment, I think 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:30.360 we are all in a sort of wait and see situation. 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:34.200 We are trying to ascertain what is going on on 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.360 the ground. We are following day by day, minute by minute, 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:42.200 what is happening with the nuclear sites. Of course, this 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:47.920 military campaign is in a certain sense different from the 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:53.079 last years in that the nuclear sites do not seem 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.399 to have been at the center or the main. 0:02:58.200 --> 0:02:59.640 Objective of this campaign. 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.600 I'm not a military expert, and we are only basing 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.320 our comments on what we see on the ground. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.839 So so far, there hasn't. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:16.000 Been evidence of massive attacks or attacks on the facilities. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.360 There are a couple of images that seem to point 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:25.360 to some damage one of the poortals in Natans, but 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:30.280 it doesn't seem to be a continued effort there. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.200 But of course this may change tomorrow. 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.200 We do not know what is the evolution at the 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:37.960 theater of operations there. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:40.760 I'm glad you clarified that point, since we did hear 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.720 from Iron's envoy claiming that they did see some targeted attacks. 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.160 When it comes to what's going on in the toons, 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.080 I do want to talk about what your organization's role 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.720 is here, since you did have a technical role. Of course, 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.440 when it comes to the diplomatic efforts between Iran and 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.520 the US, I know you said earlier today that frustrated 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.480 to see the collapse of those efforts. But how do 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.880 you view the role that the IAEA has here and 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:08.960 whether or not there's anything you can do to bridge 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:09.560 that gap. 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.960 Well, our role is simply dispensable. As you know, the 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:21.240 IAA aka the Nuclear Watchdog, we are the Nuclear Inspector 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.240 all over the world of all nuclear facilities, and in 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.920 particular we have been having a process with Iran, a 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.400 process which has not been an easy one because Iran 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:35.880 has not always complied with all their obligations in terms 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:38.680 of informing of everything they were doing. But we were 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:45.320 having this relationship since the war we lost some access, 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:50.360 important accesses to places where we used to inspect, including 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:55.560 these three main sites you know four though natans Isfahan 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.800 and we were in this sort of talking past each other, 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:05.120 we requesting them to have access to these facilities, and 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.480 Iran putting a number of reasons why or arguing that 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:11.880 we could not return for this or that reason. 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.600 Of course, the mediation led by. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:20.640 The money Foreign Minister started and at some point when 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:25.520 the conversations started to acquire some momentum, they judge and 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:29.200 rightly so that the presence of the Director General of 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:36.039 the IEA would add to the realism and the concreteness 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:40.120 of this conversation, because in nuclear diplomacy, you can express 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.920 a general principle, for example, not have nuclear weapons or 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.159 enrich only for medical purposes, but then you have to 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.760 turn that general principle into something concrete. 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.279 What does that mean? What are you planning to do. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.920 Where how many centrifuges, how many cascades, what are the 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.760 levels of enriched How are you going to verify that? 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:03.120 And for that? 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:06.840 Of course, each side may have its own ideas, but 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.520 we as a EEA, we can tell this is what 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:16.200 is necessary for this stated intention or activity, and then 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.960 propose the necessary verification. Any agreement without verification is just 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.240 a piece of paper. It's not an agreement, it's an 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:27.600 illusion of an agreement. So I think this was making 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.200 our presence around that table indispensable. 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:33.719 So we have to see now what's going to happen next? 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.040 And I am curious. I mean, this is the second 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:38.960 time in less than a year that we've seen these 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.039 negotiations be interrupted by a military strike. You referenced that 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.160 twelve day war back in June. And with that in mind, 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:49.080 Director General, do you feel that diplomacy is still the 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.640 only option out of this conflict? 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:59.400 Well, in my opinion, yes, if you want to define 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:09.160 a rurable, long lasting, stable solution. So of course at 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.880 the moment we are in the midst of a conflict, 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:18.800 of a military operation. So the countries participating or the 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:23.280 belligerents may have a different idea. From my perspective, what 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:29.680 we see is that even with this kinetic phase of 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.520 the conflict, at some point this will come to an end, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:37.840 hopefully sooner rather than later. And when that happens, you 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:43.400 will still have a question mark around these activities, these 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.360 nuclear activities, and we will have to go back to 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.800 the negotiating table. This is what we mean when we 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.280 say we need a diplomatic solution. 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:55.520 And next week, my understanding is that you're meeting with 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.080 Emmanuel Macron of France. France which just announced that it's 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.440 preparing to increase is the number of nuclear weapons in 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:07.040 its stockpile because basically it's uncertain of US security guarantees. 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.840 And I'm curious to hear your perspective on how you're 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:11.360 interpreting those decisions. 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:15.320 Well, I would say that all of these decisions and 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.920 what is happening not only in France, but in other countries, 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:24.160 in at least in all nuclear weapons states as recognized 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.680 by the Treaty on the Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:35.400 we see that given the strategic fragmentation, given the degree 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:41.160 of polarization that we are seeing in the world, unfortunately, 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.640 we are in a phase where there is we may 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:48.400 be frustrated by this, but there is an increased reliance 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:55.640 on nuclear weapons, and this is a concerning development, but 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:59.040 it's the reality. It is the reality. We would like 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.600 to see a world with less nuclear weapons. We would 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.360 like to see eventually a world without nuclear weapons. You 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.319 may remember that at some point even the President of 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.280 the United States, the previous president of the United States, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:15.200 was talking about that. But today, as we see the world, 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.600 the world as it is, we are seeing an increased 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.040 reliance on nuclear weapons. 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.040 In part maybe because of what you mentioned. 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:29.920 Countries are looking at their own security in terms of 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.319 their autonomy to take their own security decisions without depending 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:35.959 on someone else. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.319 We believe that. 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.400 An increased number of nuclear weapons perhaps is not the 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:48.480 ideal way to secure a more stable and peaceful world. 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.000 But this is the reality that we are seeing. And 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:55.680 from my perspective from the IEA, what concerns us is 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:59.400 the fact that countries that heretofore have not had nuclear 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.679 weapons are talking about that because you mentioned France. 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:04.040 France. 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.199 Of course, France is one of the five countries according 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:09.880 to the Treaty on the Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.360 By the way, in coincidence, the five permanent members of 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.520 the Security Council. They have an arsenal, and perhaps this 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:19.200 arsenal goes up or goes down. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:20.360 It's not going to. 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.640 Change the overall equation, but what we are seeing, and 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.720 this is more traveling if you want, there is that 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:30.120 countries that up until now where the. 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:33.760 Director General, unfortunately we are up against the clock, really 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:36.240 hate to cut you off, really appreciate your time. That 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.440 is Raphael Mariano Grossi, Director General of the International Atomic 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:41.520 Energy Agency,