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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

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Speaker 2: Nicole Christy is here a writer, podcaster, an entrepreneur with

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Speaker 2: a passion for storytelling. She is the founder and CEO

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Speaker 2: of Pula Productions. She's also the host of the Here

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Speaker 2: for Me podcast. I love that your bio says you

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Speaker 2: are a storyteller with a hint of hippie.

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Speaker 3: It's like, I have Midwestern roots, but I was raised

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Speaker 3: in the Northwest in Seattle, and then now I live

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Speaker 3: in San Diego, so you know, got some West Coast

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Speaker 3: hippie vibes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense to me. Then, a storyteller with

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Speaker 2: the sense of hippie. Well, it is Mental Health Awareness Month,

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Speaker 2: and so whenever we initially started this conversation, I thought

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Speaker 2: this would be the perfect month to have you on.

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Speaker 2: I love your story because you, to me, are the

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Speaker 2: definition of taking your pain and turning it into purpose,

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Speaker 2: which for mental health and in my experience in life

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Speaker 2: has been such a healing part of anything that's ever

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Speaker 2: you know, quote unquote terrible that's ever happened in my life.

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Speaker 2: Using it then to help others or give myself a

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Speaker 2: sense of purpose has been immensely healing, so I hear

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Speaker 2: so much of that in your story. And then we

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Speaker 2: were also just talking a little bit before, and I

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Speaker 2: want to get into this in a little bit, but

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Speaker 2: you are starting the conversation or having the conversation about

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Speaker 2: narcissistic abuse and kind of your experience with that, And

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Speaker 2: as I said to you before, that is such an

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Speaker 2: important conversation to me, and I feel like it's starting

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Speaker 2: to become, you know, more prevalent. But it's also narcissist

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Speaker 2: is a buzzword and so there's a lot of like

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Speaker 2: overuse of it. So I want to dive into kind

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Speaker 2: of the specifics of what your experience was, what your

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Speaker 2: recovery was like, and what you've learned from that. But

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Speaker 2: before we get started with all of that, let's kind

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Speaker 2: of go back because you were in the corporate world

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Speaker 2: for many years at a company. I'm sure you guys

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Speaker 2: have heard of Microsoft.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of the big one.

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Speaker 2: So can you talk us through your journey from just

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Speaker 2: learning that you love words and kind of storytelling, getting

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Speaker 2: into the corporate world, and then the moment that it

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Speaker 2: all changed for you when you had some health scares.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've been a writer since I was very little.

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Speaker 3: It was something I knew I wanted to do as

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Speaker 3: a career from like second grade. And you know, you

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Speaker 3: always think you're going to be an author or a screenwriter,

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Speaker 3: and I certainly have dabbled in those. I journalism, went

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Speaker 3: to school and studied journalism and then got out of

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Speaker 3: that and sort of found my way early in my

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Speaker 3: career to Microsoft in the communications space, so specifically I

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Speaker 3: was doing employee communications and executive communications. So it's you know,

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Speaker 3: I had a real passion for employees feeling like they

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Speaker 3: are valued, and employee communications gave me the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: do that. And then executive communications, you're working with senior

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Speaker 3: leaders kind of on their platform, if you will, and

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Speaker 3: their thought leadership, So how do they talk to employees?

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Speaker 3: How do they to the press? So that was kind

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Speaker 3: of my focus. I ended up I had two lifetimes

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Speaker 3: at Microsoft, so I left. I went to New York.

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Speaker 3: I was in New York for about five years and

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Speaker 3: worked at a consulting firm for ten months, and I

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Speaker 3: knew that I'd always wanted to work for myself as

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Speaker 3: a storyteller and writer and communicator, and that was kind

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Speaker 3: of the first impetist to God and start my own

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Speaker 3: business doing this, which I did for a while, and

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Speaker 3: then I went back to Microsoft knowing I wanted to

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Speaker 3: shift to a different type of storytelling and I didn't

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Speaker 3: really know what that was going to be, something different

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Speaker 3: in the calm space. So went back to Microsoft in

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Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and about two years in had the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to host a talk show series for the company called

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Speaker 3: Modern Communications that ended up leading to my leadership saying

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Speaker 3: we want to start a podcast about the manager journey

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Speaker 3: at Microsoft and how that's evolving. Would you be interested

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Speaker 3: in hosting it because we want to talk to leaders

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Speaker 3: at Microsoft and have them tell their personal story about

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Speaker 3: managing people. And I was like yeah, and really candid

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Speaker 3: conversations the kind that I now have on here for me.

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Speaker 3: So that planted this for oh, you know, and also

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Speaker 3: studied improv in New York and performed improv. So I

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Speaker 3: was like everything sort of coming together in this very

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Speaker 3: authentic way, and I knew that I wanted to do

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Speaker 3: this more with conversations and talking with people. And then

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Speaker 3: in twenty nineteen, I had the first of two back

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Speaker 3: to back health crises, so I got a virus called

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Speaker 3: handfoot and mouth disease, which is very common in children.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no one knows how I got it.

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Speaker 3: I don't have children, I hadn't been near any children,

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Speaker 3: and I was ridiculously stressed out. My then husband and

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Speaker 3: I were about to move to San Diego together. We'd

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Speaker 3: been long distance for seven and a half years. It

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Speaker 3: was a huge thing. A lot was happening in my job.

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Speaker 3: I was really stressed, and my body, what they believe

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Speaker 3: was a stress induced autoimmune response, just attacked itself and

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Speaker 3: turned into a secondary condition called erithema multiform and I

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Speaker 3: lost six layers of skin and all of my toenails

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Speaker 3: over the course of about one or two weeks. And

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Speaker 3: it took a full nine months before I looked normal.

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Speaker 3: Before I could normally because it started to eat into

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Speaker 3: the connective tissue. I was in the hospital for a

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Speaker 3: week on ivy nutrients and hydration and meds and all

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Speaker 3: of this. So it took a while to fully heal

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Speaker 3: from that. And then March twenty twenty is when I

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Speaker 3: was finally like, oh, I feel like I'm healed. Still

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Speaker 3: took two years for all my toenails to come back normally,

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Speaker 3: But and then you know pandemic. I'm living in San Diego,

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Speaker 3: so you know, we had the lockdown, and then I found,

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Speaker 3: you know, something in my eye that turned out to

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Speaker 3: be eye cancer. I wasn't able to be diagnosed until

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Speaker 3: July of twenty twenty because no one was seeing anyone

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Speaker 3: unless you had a life threatening condition. So yeah, this whole,

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Speaker 3: you know, this upheaval that happened in my life made

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Speaker 3: me really look at what am I doing. I felt

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Speaker 3: like I had Those were two big wake up calls,

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Speaker 3: and it was sort of this metaphysical you know, with

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Speaker 3: my eye. It was my left eye. It was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I think I'm not seeing things clearly. And I started

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Speaker 3: to sort of look at the circumstances around me. I

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Speaker 3: started to see that I was allowing multiple people in

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Speaker 3: my life to really what I came to know of

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Speaker 3: as narcissistic abuse, but really emotionally and verbally abusive circumstances

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Speaker 3: that I was putting up with, that I was people pleasing,

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Speaker 3: not wanting to hurt people's feelings, having great empathy for

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Speaker 3: people because maybe they were in a difficult circumstance, and

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Speaker 3: so I would make myself smaller, dim my light to

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Speaker 3: make sure that they felt okay or make them feel

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Speaker 3: better when they were hurting me, because I'm like, well,

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Speaker 3: hurt people hurt people, right, And so that was really

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Speaker 3: the wake up call for me. And it took a while.

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Speaker 3: Like I did not heal. I wasn't declared cancer free

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Speaker 3: until June of twenty twenty one, So it was really

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Speaker 3: about a fifteen month period from finding that to having

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Speaker 3: multiple surgeries and multiple immunotherapy treatments until I was declared

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Speaker 3: cancer free. And I knew in that moment some things

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Speaker 3: have to change in your life. And it still took

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Speaker 3: another fifteen months beyond that for me to leave my work,

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Speaker 3: start my business, start my podcast, which I knew I

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Speaker 3: was in a position to have conversations that hopefully facilitated

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Speaker 3: healing through my own storytelling and the stories of others.

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Speaker 3: And I knew that, you know, my marriage was in

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Speaker 3: a serious state of disrepair and was not the right

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Speaker 3: thing for me to be in, but it did. It

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Speaker 3: took a while before I was able to both leave

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Speaker 3: the job, start the business, and get on this healing

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Speaker 3: path both in my work and my purpose and contribution

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Speaker 3: to the world, and also in my relationships.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, first of all, I want to just

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Speaker 2: say to the listeners, I'm looking at you right now,

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Speaker 2: and I would have never known any of those situations

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Speaker 2: had happened.

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Speaker 4: That is crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, then stuff, Oh yeah, the skinsk I mean, I

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Speaker 3: have a little bit of scars here, but no one

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Speaker 3: when I show it to my right, I wouldn't have known.

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Speaker 4: Your eyes look great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Ultimately I had half of my lower lid removed.

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Speaker 3: So I had conduct evil cancer, which is like the

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Speaker 3: skin of your eye. So it's sort of like skin cancer,

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Speaker 3: but because it's the lining of your eye and it's

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Speaker 3: basically you know, mucus, and it's also very close to

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Speaker 3: your brain and your head and neck lymph notes, that's

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Speaker 3: what they're worried about. Normally a skin cancer, they'd be like, oh,

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Speaker 3: we just dig it out and it's fine. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I had to be under a lot more surveillance and ultimately, yeah,

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Speaker 3: they tried to do a biopsy, scoop out as much

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Speaker 3: as they could, and then treat it with immunotherapy, which

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Speaker 3: was injections right into my eye. It's a big party,

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Speaker 3: I invite all people to join, right. Ultimately, Yeah, it

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Speaker 3: came back. It was very aggressive, which is also rare.

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Speaker 3: And they were super concerned about that. So February twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one, they're like, it's back and you get to

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Speaker 3: go have half your eyelid removed and rebuilt and my

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Speaker 3: tara duct removed and then you know, amazing what is

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Speaker 3: called an oculoplastic surgeon here in San Diego, world renowned.

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Speaker 3: I'm so lucky to have been here and how you

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Speaker 3: do that? He literally saved my life, save my eyes.

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Speaker 3: So thank you. That's his work that you're seeing now.

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Speaker 4: Nothing to do ask He's good at his job. Yes,

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Speaker 4: I agree.

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Speaker 2: I talk about this a lot on the podcast, but

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Speaker 2: to me, emotions and physical parts of our body are

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Speaker 2: so connected. And I've recently even had an experience with

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Speaker 2: a friend from high school who's going through so many

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Speaker 2: physical ailments and the doctors can't find it, but I

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Speaker 2: observe in her life so much stress and like exactly

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Speaker 2: what you're describing the giving and I know for me

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Speaker 2: it's you know, caused breakdowns and like it's not unfortunately

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Speaker 2: sometimes until the crash happens that I'll pay attention absolutely.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit about maybe what you've

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Speaker 2: learned as far as like how to stay in touch

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Speaker 2: with your body and in tune with your body even

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Speaker 2: going through life. Life is stressful, right, we can't just

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Speaker 2: always avoid stress, But like, what are some of the

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Speaker 2: things that you do now after this experience to be like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I will never do this again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the body is a beacon, and some

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Speaker 3: people more than others. Certainly I realized going through this

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Speaker 3: that my body had been a beacon for a long time.

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Speaker 3: So most of my life I would I had dealt

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Speaker 3: with migrains, GI issues, mysterious rashes like I would just

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Speaker 3: get hives and nobody could really understand why. When I

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Speaker 3: looked back at those instances, I could tie it to

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Speaker 3: very stressful things. Even when I first met my now

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Speaker 3: ex husband, I broke out on hives a month later

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Speaker 3: and that went on for like three or four months.

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Speaker 2: Also laughing because first of all, I'm nodding. I'm like, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 4: You get it, Yes, the same page.

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Speaker 2: But it's also like all of these things will be happening,

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Speaker 2: and you're like, you know what I'm gonna do. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna stay in that relationship.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, and you just totally and I was chalking it

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Speaker 3: up to other things, right, Like we had we had

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Speaker 3: met in Seattle. You know what he does for a living.

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Speaker 3: You know, he had to move back to where he

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Speaker 3: was going. It was a long story, and so he

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Speaker 3: went back to where to Montreal, and so I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: there's all this emotional chaos, like we met and we're

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Speaker 3: in love and now we have to be long distance.

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Speaker 3: And I was chalking it up to all of that.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god. And then you know, gi stuff was

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Speaker 3: happening for like years with him that that didn't miss same.

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Speaker 3: I would go to the doctor, like there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 3: with you. So I think paying attention to there's a

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Speaker 3: lot to be said for how is your body manifesting?

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Speaker 3: And I read something recently about you know, the body

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Speaker 3: is manifesting things that we don't allow ourselves to feel. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, your emotions or something. You know, it's not

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Speaker 3: always possible to make logical sense or cerebrally process things

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Speaker 3: that are happening in your life. So when your body's

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Speaker 3: talking to you in these mysterious ways, I think it's

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Speaker 3: what I do is I just check out of everything

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Speaker 3: for a second. And some people may meditate or journal.

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Speaker 3: I just need to be quiet. I just need to

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Speaker 3: go to a quiet place. And really think about what's happening.

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Speaker 3: You know, even just earlier this week, I was like,

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Speaker 3: why am I having this? Like am I having a

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Speaker 3: heart attack? Like why am I having this pain? And

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Speaker 3: I realized, I'm extremely anxious. I'm not even breathing properly

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Speaker 3: right now. I'm breathing really shit. So just taking time

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Speaker 3: to step away when my body's telling me things we're

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Speaker 3: and sometimes it truly is a medical issue. I want

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Speaker 3: to be care about that too. I've certainly had those instances.

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Speaker 3: But when you can't describe something like where in your

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Speaker 3: life are you misaligned? Where are you not paying attention

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Speaker 3: to maybe what path you need to be on, or

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Speaker 3: how someone is treating you, or what your relationship dynamic is.

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Speaker 3: Are you taking care of yourself? Are you eating? Are

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Speaker 3: you sleeping? All of that? So just really stopping and

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Speaker 3: very intentionally looking at your life and is there any

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Speaker 3: tie between the two times?

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Speaker 2: I love that you said you just stop. I've found

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Speaker 2: so much power in the pause in the past couple

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Speaker 2: of years. It's scary, but it's it's also very empowering.

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Speaker 3: I would say it's very empowering. And even you know

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Speaker 3: we're airing the last episode of season two of Here

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Speaker 3: for Me my podcast tomorrow and I'm announcing that we're

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Speaker 3: taking the summer off and we're going to do audience favorites.

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Speaker 3: But I'm freaking out about pausing. I'm freaking out about

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Speaker 3: the you know, this culture, like you have to keep

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Speaker 3: moving and you know, objects in motion, stay in motion,

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Speaker 3: and that, you know, me losing momentum is somehow going

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Speaker 3: to destroy everything. I'm actually and that was part of

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Speaker 3: what I tuned into earlier this week. I was like,

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Speaker 3: you're afraid to pause, You're afraid to stop. I'm part

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Speaker 3: of that is I'm afraid to not feel like I'm

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Speaker 3: doing something purposeful that I'm just going to take summer

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Speaker 3: off and it's San Diego. What screw around at the

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Speaker 3: beach or something, you know.

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Speaker 4: So amazing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it is just you're you're right, I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's it's you do. Just have to go. It's okay

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Speaker 3: to stop, and yeah, tune in and see what's going

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Speaker 3: on up here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's been one of the gifts of

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Speaker 2: COVID in some ways for our culture even is just

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Speaker 2: to realize how hard, how fast, how much we were

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Speaker 2: going and then when it all stops or has to stop.

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Speaker 2: You're like, what's actually important? And like how much of

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Speaker 2: that is made up in my head that I have

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Speaker 2: these deadlines and these like it has to get done today,

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Speaker 2: you know, like the things we put on ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I mean and COVID. I was going through

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Speaker 3: my cancer journey and COVID at the same time, and

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Speaker 3: so those two things happening simultaneously. And my husband what

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Speaker 3: he does for a living, he was furloughed for sixteen months,

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Speaker 3: so and we had never lived together. We'd been long

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Speaker 3: distance for our entire relationships. So everything happened all at

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Speaker 3: once and forced that pause and forced me to go, Okay,

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Speaker 3: my body's talking to me. Things were happening at work

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Speaker 3: that were crazy, things were happening at home. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: COVID did give us a lot of gifts. I don't

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Speaker 3: know that I would be on the other side of

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Speaker 3: a lot of trauma without it. So, you know, I

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Speaker 3: hate to say that there was there was a silver lining,

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Speaker 3: but you're right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think.

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Speaker 2: So, well, let's step in a little bit to the

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Speaker 2: narcissistic abuse stuff, because you know, we talked a little

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Speaker 2: bit before, and it's like more I think important to

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Speaker 2: talk about the solution, but it is important also to

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Speaker 2: say what it was like and kind of how you

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Speaker 2: got where you got. So you've mentioned the little bit

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Speaker 2: about the relationship. What I said to you is, like,

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Speaker 2: what I want to know is what it felt like

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Speaker 2: for you? Like what did you notice in yourself? Because

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Speaker 2: I know in this situation that I was in, I

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Speaker 2: can look back now and the person that I was

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Speaker 2: was unrecognizable to me.

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Speaker 4: Did you do you relate to that?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: What did it look like for you?

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Speaker 3: I totally relate to that. I mean, it's and I

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Speaker 3: talked about this a little bit on the first episode

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Speaker 3: of season two of the podcast, where I talked about

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure you feel the same thing. I actually

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Speaker 3: grieved the loss of myself more than I grieved the

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Speaker 3: loss of the relationship, because looking at that woman was

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Speaker 3: so hard and I and I said, like, I didn't

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Speaker 3: lose myself, but I buried myself in a shallow grave,

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Speaker 3: and then I had to go find her and wake

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Speaker 3: her up and go, h, here's what happened while you

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Speaker 3: were asleep. And that loss, I'm like, could be emotional

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Speaker 3: just talking about this was so devastating to see how

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Speaker 3: I had allowed myself to abandon myself. So what it

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Speaker 3: felt like for me was just forgetting who I was

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Speaker 3: and and you know that I had needs, that I

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Speaker 3: had goals, that I had dreams, that I had desires.

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Speaker 3: I just became all about supporting this other person who

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Speaker 3: was very good at convincing me that that was the

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Speaker 3: most important thing in our life, and I just I

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Speaker 3: put everything on the back burner. I questioned my own

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Speaker 3: sanity all the time, which you know, a therapist will

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Speaker 3: say that's gaslighting, right, So you know, like, oh, I

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Speaker 3: don't think that I really thought that, or know that

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Speaker 3: you you must be right, or every bit of criticism

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Speaker 3: that came at me narcissists And I'm going to preface this,

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Speaker 3: I'm not a mental health professional, but just sharing what

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Speaker 3: I learned in my experience or working with a narcissistic

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Speaker 3: abuse recovery therapist. They're good at getting supply and making

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Speaker 3: you sort of forget that you have needs that you are,

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Speaker 3: you know, a carbon being in the household. So I

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Speaker 3: was constantly making criticism in of like, oh that's a

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Speaker 3: really good point. I hadn't really thought about that, or

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Speaker 3: deflection and projection taking that on and then literally I

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Speaker 3: went into therapy for things that I now realized were

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Speaker 3: not problems I had. I think that there was you know,

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Speaker 3: and this is not just this relationship, but also I've

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Speaker 3: had others, not romantic relationships, but others in my life

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Speaker 3: throughout my lifetime. And most people, if you've been with

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Speaker 3: one narcissist in some way, you've probably been with others

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Speaker 3: in some fashion. Again, it could be a colleague, could

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Speaker 3: be a friend, could be a family member. A lot

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Speaker 3: of people come from narcissistic parenting, so that could be

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Speaker 3: it for you. But realizing that, you know, I was

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Speaker 3: taking on stuff that wasn't mine. But because I'm a

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Speaker 3: person who will shine the light on myself, I'm not

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Speaker 3: afraid of the dark corners, and I'll unpack things and go, huh,

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Speaker 3: I think I need to go with therapy and talk

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Speaker 3: about that. That's how that showed up for me a lot.

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Speaker 3: And it's not that some of that criticism wasn't valid,

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Speaker 3: you know, things that I needed to go work out

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Speaker 3: in therapy and unpack. But yeah, it was really just

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Speaker 3: questioning myself. There's a lot of brain fog, and there

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Speaker 3: were signs, there were bodily signs. Something I realized recently

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Speaker 3: was when I would go visit him, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it took twelve hours for us to get to each

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Speaker 3: other door to door. But I would go there for

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Speaker 3: a month. I worked for myself, I had my own business.

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Speaker 3: I'd go there for a month. I'd come back to

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Speaker 3: Seattle for a month. I would cry when the plane

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Speaker 3: would land. And I always thought that it was where

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Speaker 3: he was living, and that I hated that place and

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Speaker 3: visiting there and being like, oh, when are we going

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Speaker 3: to be able to get out of here? And I

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Speaker 3: look back on that, and that's certainly part of it.

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Speaker 3: But I think I also knew that I was going

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Speaker 3: to walk into that dynamic for a month. And then,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was so nice for me to go

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Speaker 3: back home to Seattle for a month, and I realized

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Speaker 3: I'd go home and fill my cup and get my energy,

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Speaker 3: and then i'd go there and I'd be drained. And

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Speaker 3: then i'd go home and i'd fill my cup, and

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Speaker 3: then i'd go there and I would be drained. And

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Speaker 3: I blamed all of that on external circumstances. And I'm

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Speaker 3: sure you can relate to this. You think it's if

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Speaker 3: only this, if only you know his job changed the

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Speaker 3: way he wanted to. Only we didn't live in this place,

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Speaker 3: if only whatever, when those things change, and then when

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Speaker 3: we got to San Diego and finally were together, he

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Speaker 3: had a job that has a job that brought him here,

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Speaker 3: I thought that everything would change. And then you realize, oh,

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Speaker 3: this is all you know. I feel so naive thinking that.

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Speaker 3: I don't like to think myself as someone who's naive.

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Speaker 3: But here we are together twenty four to seven. Then

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Speaker 3: a pandemic happens and you realize, oh no, there was

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Speaker 3: a shaky foundation and there were fundamental issues all along.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I'm just like everything you just said. Literally,

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Speaker 2: it's like you're telling my story, you know, it's yeah.

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Speaker 2: And this is the importance I think of talking about

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Speaker 2: things like this is so that if anyone's listening and

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Speaker 2: they're hearing some of their story, like you're not alone.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's so much power and sharing for that

405
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Speaker 2: purpose of just giving it a name, giving it a voice,

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Speaker 2: anything like that. You mentioned the brain fog, and one

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Speaker 2: of the questions I was going to ask you is

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Speaker 2: because in my recovery from this situation, I kept saying

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Speaker 2: over and over I said this to my therapist and

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Speaker 2: my family's and my friends. I'm like, I just want

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Speaker 2: my brain back. I just want my brain back. Like

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Speaker 2: I had this intense feeling of not being myself, but

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Speaker 2: also just I could not see the road ahead of me,

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Speaker 2: like I could not there was a constant fog every day,

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Speaker 2: and even getting out of bed becomes tough when you're

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Speaker 2: living under that big cloud.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely true, and I think some of that

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Speaker 3: I don't want to say. You know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: narcissistic behavior is not intentional, right, it's just how someone

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Speaker 3: has learned to walk through the world and get their

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Speaker 3: needs get theirself a.

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Speaker 4: Survival skill too.

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Speaker 3: It's a survival exactly. It's a survival skill. And so

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Speaker 3: it's almost like that's just part of it, right, because

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Speaker 3: if you are in that fog and you can't see ahead,

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Speaker 3: you're more available for someone else's needs and supply, and

427
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Speaker 3: then you feel like you're being useful and there's a

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Speaker 3: purpose to that, or you're helping the relationship along. I

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Speaker 3: can relate to that. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of the big pieces for me was also just

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Speaker 2: the recovery, like once you actually well, let me ask

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Speaker 2: you this, how hard was it for you to leave

434
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,840
Speaker 2: that relationship.

435
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 3: Well, it took a year and a half from the

436
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,800
Speaker 3: time that I knew there was a last straw that

437
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 3: happened in February of twenty twenty one. Okay that I

438
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 3: won't go into and that it was the night before

439
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 3: my last cancer treatment. And I knew in that moment,

440
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,119
Speaker 3: I cannot stay in this. It's not psychologically safe for

441
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 3: me to do so emotionally safe. But it was the

442
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 3: night before my last cancer treatment. I went the next

443
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 3: day and they were like, your cancer is back. Great,

444
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 3: So you know, I had to keep my eyes on

445
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 3: my recovery for a while. And then you know, three

446
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 3: months later we had the surgery and they said we

447
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: got it all. Your cancer free, and I just needed

448
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,959
Speaker 3: to I literally I had, you know, girlfriends. I had

449
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 3: a few girlfriends that had walked this path with me

450
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,040
Speaker 3: and knew what was happening. Most people did not know

451
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,959
Speaker 3: what was happening. And they were like, Okay, so your

452
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 3: cancer free, You're going to go You're going to go

453
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: into your next chapter. And I said, I literally need

454
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 3: to stick my head in the sand after the last

455
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 3: two years of medical issues and pretend that everything is normal,

456
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 3: because I need to get strong again and the wonderful

457
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 3: therapist I was working with at that time, said that's

458
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: going to seem counterintuitive to you and everybody else, but

459
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 3: you can't walk away from this situation on your hands

460
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: and knees. You're on your hands and knees from a

461
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: two year health journey. So what she worked on with me,

462
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 3: and she said from the beginning, and I think most

463
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 3: are all narcissistic abuse recovery therapists will do this. It's

464
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 3: not my job to tell you to stay or go.

465
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 3: It's my job to give you the emotional toolbox to survive,

466
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 3: if not thrive within the relationship if you stay or

467
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 3: to leave it. And it took time. So I started

468
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,800
Speaker 3: working with her in April of twenty twenty one as

469
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 3: I was having these surgeries, and then we wrapped up

470
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,680
Speaker 3: our relationship. We'd work together for every week for ten months.

471
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 3: So January twenty twenty two, I was like, I feel

472
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 3: like I have all the tools I need and I

473
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 3: just need to let it integrate. So it was building

474
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 3: that toolbox, sticking my head in the sand, and having

475
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 3: a proper summer for the first time in two years,

476
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 3: and just also you know, there was still hope. I

477
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 3: was still like, well, maybe this toolbox will help me

478
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 3: be able to survive it and we can stay together

479
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: because we work so hard for seven and a half

480
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: years to get to this point. So it was hard

481
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 3: for those reasons. And then January twenty twenty two, when

482
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: I said to her, I need to just take a

483
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 3: pause on therapy, she was like great. It was still

484
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 3: not until September. It was another nine months of me

485
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 3: letting this integrate. The other thing I did at that

486
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: point was I felt like I was emotionally strong. I

487
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, I can fight this fight now, but

488
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 3: I with two years of health issues. I was like,

489
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 3: I need to get my strength physically back. So I

490
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: do like really hardcore crazy pilates three or four days

491
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 3: a week. And I went to my instructor. It was

492
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 3: finally safe to go back from like a COVID perspective

493
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 3: and my health perspective, and I went to her and

494
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 3: I said, I want you to kick my ass into

495
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 3: the best shape I've ever been in in my life,

496
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: because I need to into that room when I decide

497
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 3: that I'm ready and feel as emotional as physically strong

498
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 3: as I am emotionally strong. And I didn't have any

499
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 3: timeline on that I just knew that I would know.

500
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: So I'm still now I'm you know, over a year

501
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 3: February twenty twenty one till like April of twenty twenty two,

502
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 3: and I'm knowing we're getting close. Yeah, I'm starting to

503
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: feel like this is I gotta go. I will say

504
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 3: that producing here for Me was the thing that finally

505
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 3: made me realize you can't stay in this. Writing about

506
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 3: being here for yourself and choosing yourself was I mean,

507
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 3: it was so emotional to write the first two episodes

508
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 3: where I told this story without talking about what was

509
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 3: happening in the relationship so much not specifically, that I

510
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 3: actually processed what had been happening for eight years at

511
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 3: that point, and also processing what had been happening, you know,

512
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 3: between us, since we had lived together and I'd been

513
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 3: through these health issues. I was like, I can't stay

514
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 3: in this. It's I'm actually going to die. I did.

515
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 3: I shared a someone recently. I felt like I got

516
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 3: a message that said, you had two wake up calls,

517
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: You're not getting a third. You're not understanding what I

518
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 3: sent you here to do, so one more wake up call.

519
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 3: You're getting plucked off the planet. Like I am, yeah,

520
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: and so I knew, like, you have to leave this

521
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 3: at that point, this was September of last year. I

522
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: wouldn't say it was easy to leave, but I knew

523
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 3: it was right. And I also knew that I had

524
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 3: the strength emotionally to not be reeled back in. I

525
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: think even six months prior, we'd kind of had a

526
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 3: sort of coming to Jesus meeting, if you will, March

527
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,719
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty two or it was like, hey, some

528
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: stuff isn't working. Was a very calm, rational, but very long,

529
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 3: hours long conversation of this isn't working for me, this

530
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 3: wasn't working for him, let's recommit. Even in March of

531
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, I was still prone to being reeled

532
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,360
Speaker 3: back in. Yeah, September I was like, there is nothing,

533
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 3: and trust me, there were lots of attempts to get

534
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 3: me things I had never seen before, and I was like,

535
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: I'm not staying. This is not working. I have to go.

536
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: And I do believe that it was the right thing

537
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 3: for both of us. Honestly, it wasn't just for me.

538
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 3: I said, I think there's things you. I think we

539
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 3: don't bring out the best in each other. So yeah,

540
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it was it was a long process, so

541
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: it was really hard to build the emotional toolbox, feel

542
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 3: physically strong and healthy, and then have that sort of

543
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 3: weake up call moment of producing my podcast that really

544
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: solidified this message in me and like I have to

545
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 3: live this, not just because I need congruency with what

546
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 3: I'm telling people on my show, but like this is

547
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: a real thing that's critical to our being aligned solves

548
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 3: on this planet.

549
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, I hear so much right now

550
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 2: that I'm just really loving And this has taken me

551
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 2: a minute to get to. So if that's just like

552
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: a full disclosure statement, but I think that especially when

553
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 2: you go through something so painful as this kind of

554
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: situation is, it's very easy to villainize the other side.

555
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: And I don't hear any of that. I hear very

556
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: much like it just wasn't serving you. And that has

557
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: been a really freeing and healing place for me to

558
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 2: get to not feel like, oh my god, I can't

559
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: believe he's doing this.

560
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 4: To me because it is insane.

561
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: It's insane behavior, it's very painful behavior. There are certain

562
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 2: things that sent me into a place that, like I

563
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 2: said to you before the podcast, I was completely unrecognizable

564
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 2: to myself, like the ways I was reacting all of

565
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: the things. But it just doesn't serve me anymore to

566
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 2: sit here and be like that person is the problem,

567
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 2: Like us together was a problem for sure in my

568
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,719
Speaker 2: life it was. And I don't know what his journey is.

569
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: This is really none of my business, you know, But

570
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 2: like for me, it's been so helpful to just be like,

571
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: that's a survival skill. It is not one that I

572
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: want to be in a relationship with because I don't

573
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 2: like the result for me or yourself exactly.

574
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and not villainizing piece of it. You're so right

575
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: about that. I think a lot of people they were

576
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 3: doing that to me too, and it just it doesn't

577
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 3: serve you to do that. I think it also helps

578
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 3: to see what is it about myself that attracts these situations,

579
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 3: not that you blame yourself. An analogy I used on

580
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: the podcast was it's like, if you're fair skinned and

581
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: you're prone to sunburn, it's not your fault your fair skin,

582
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 3: it's not the sun's fault that it's going to beat.

583
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: You have to put SPF on and stay out of

584
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 3: the sun, and for certain times.

585
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 4: Of the day or is that'tra caution?

586
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so just understanding what is it about myself that

587
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 3: primed me for that behavior to put up with it,

588
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 3: I probably felt and maybe you did as well as

589
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 3: you healed, but you know, I almost felt more shame

590
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 3: myself of allowing it, like once.

591
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: Yougot its staying and going back what you talked about,

592
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: like I tried to leave so many times, more time

593
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: that I cared to say out loud, and for more

594
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: years than I care to stay out loud.

595
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 4: You know, say out loud.

596
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 3: It's just like blo. It's really calm.

597
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 4: It's very common. I'm learning that.

598
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 2: But the whatever you called them, I don't know if

599
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 2: you called them repair attempts or whatever it was, that

600
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: always amps up. That's what people don't understand. When you

601
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: actually get enough guts to be like I gotta go,

602
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: that's when it gets That's when like it really gets hard,

603
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 2: because oh yeah, the other side of that is that

604
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 2: there's a party that's like no your supply for me,

605
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: and you can't leave. And so, like you said, I

606
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 2: love that you really are talking about how strong you

607
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: had to get because that was sort of where I

608
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 2: had to get too. Like mine looked like having to

609
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 2: get to the bottom of the barrel, knowing I was

610
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: going to lose my job, my friends, my like literally

611
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 2: everything in my life, my life probably like it was

612
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: as dramatic as that may sound to people, that is reality.

613
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: It's not dramatic at all, and you realize, like your

614
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: health is at stake, your mental health, your physical health

615
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: is at steak when you get the bottom of the barrel.

616
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 3: Was a really great analogy for it, where you're just

617
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: sitting there going okay, you know, you don't have anything

618
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: to lose at that point either. It's like you have

619
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 3: to you know, as we stay on here for me,

620
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 3: you're to choose yourself.

621
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: Yes, m hmm, yeah, the only the only place I

622
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: could go from where I was at that worst day.

623
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 2: And I had a situation too. There was a one

624
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: day where I just knew, no matter what attempts were

625
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: made to get me to stay like, I had to go.

626
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: But the only two options were death or.

627
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 4: To go up.

628
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,239
Speaker 2: So it's like, Okay, I gotta go because like I

629
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: know my life. I actually didn't know that, but I'd

630
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: had enough experience with recovery and like kind of getting

631
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: myself back to know that like life can be better

632
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: than this, and I know that, and so I'm going

633
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: to trust that and I'm just gonna keep saying the

634
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: next right step forward.

635
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm curious too. Did you find that, you know,

636
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 3: your empathy was so out of control for someone else

637
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: that it that also led you to stay all of that?

638
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 2: I mean that that to me has been one of

639
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: the biggest things I've had to learn to manage. And

640
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,479
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the right word to use

641
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: around empathy, but that's in my nature just to be

642
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: that way, which is also very common for these kind

643
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: of dynamics between a narcissist and an impath. But that

644
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: is the way I'm wired, and so I give that freely.

645
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: And I'm learning now to not give it so freely

646
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: because a lot of people can't handle that and they

647
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: use it against you, and it's it's almost dangerous for me,

648
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 2: is how I look at it? Like, It's yeah, you know,

649
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 2: I have to be very picky and cheesy where I

650
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,479
Speaker 2: am giving that, but first I have to give it

651
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,959
Speaker 2: to myself. Yeah, it has I don't starts with yourself.

652
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: There was something I wish I could give credit to this,

653
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: but someone posted like an Instagram reel or something, and

654
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 2: I literally was in tears seeing this, but that, you

655
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: know something about I wish someone had warned me that

656
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: my and I might be paraphrasing a little bit. My

657
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: empathy was going to create a safe harbor for other

658
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: people's demons.

659
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: Oh, And I was like, oh, and just cry about that, right,

660
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: because that sounds like exactly what you were doing. I've

661
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 3: spent my whole life doing that with friends, family members, colleagues,

662
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 3: like feeling sorry for someone else and thinking. And I think,

663
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 3: you know, I'd been single for the better part of

664
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: eight years when I met my ex husband, Like I

665
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: dated people and had stupid entanglements and things, but I

666
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: hadn't had a serious relationship. So I had kind of

667
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: filled my cup and felt like I am here to

668
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 3: give and I was just ripe for you know, that

669
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 3: sort of that sort of thing. And I hadn't worked

670
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 3: through how how empathy can can be used against you,

671
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 3: or you know, you get involved with people that are

672
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 3: going to take advantage. I didn't know anything about that.

673
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 3: I think the other piece of it I didn't know

674
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 3: about that. I really didn't know until I started working

675
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: with my therapist was the spectrum of narcissism, which you

676
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier. It's such a popular time, it's almost you know,

677
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: it's not people with lots of selfies on social media.

678
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 3: It can be, but the spectrum of you know what

679
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 3: that would be like, the grandiose end of the spectrum

680
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: in very flashy, you know, very you know, egotistical or whatever.

681
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: The other end of it is the covert or vulnerable

682
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 3: narcissist that you know comes in with some sort of

683
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: poor me, woe is me, I've had all these terrible

684
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: things happen. And that's where you know you're you're primed

685
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: for it if you're an empast. Oh no, I'm so sorry,

686
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: let me help, and then pretty soon you've just lost it.

687
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: Sounds like you were in the same kind of situation.

688
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, you do help them, but it's

689
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 2: like I helped. I helped them so much that I

690
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 2: lost myself and I couldn't help myself anymore. And that

691
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 2: is where that balance and that dynamic really can get

692
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: you off. And I want to kind of just point

693
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: out too, because I don't know if you felt this.

694
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: You did mention that you had a really good support

695
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: system of friends.

696
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 4: I also do I.

697
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: Have an amazing support syst This, however, was a situation

698
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: I still felt very isolated in like I don't know

699
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: that people fully understand this dynamic and how tricky and

700
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 2: kind of like use the word covert with narcissists, but

701
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: I think it can be this like subtle.

702
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 4: It's so subtle.

703
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes and it's like just ticking away at a person

704
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: and I'm sitting here talking to you, thinking, look at

705
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 2: all this stuff, like you know, your qualifications are very impressive,

706
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: and you as a person are impressive, And I could

707
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: sit here and be like how that you know what?

708
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 2: That doesn't make sense? And that's what I had people

709
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: say to me all the time. You're really strong, you

710
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 2: like look, you give your shit together. And it's like

711
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 2: this can happen to anyone, Like, isn't something that is

712
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: just because you're weak. I think that was like one

713
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: of the that's one of the big points I want

714
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 2: to make for anyone listening that might be experiencing that

715
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 2: this isn't something because you're weak. This like could take

716
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: out anybody.

717
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 3: Oh my god. First of all, thank you for saying that,

718
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 3: And I'm honored to be on your show and talking

719
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: about this. It is it's actually like the opposite. And

720
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: then therapists tell you narcissists don't pick weak people. They

721
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 3: pick the best of the bunch because it's the best

722
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 3: level of supply. So someone like yourself, you're smart, successful, beautiful,

723
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 3: you have your shit together, you're an empathic person. Prime. Right,

724
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 3: Just it's like they pick the best, and they also

725
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 3: want the best, you know if especially if they're on

726
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 3: the grandiose end of the spectrum, they want the best

727
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: on their arm. Right, that's yeah, the point of prime.

728
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 3: Look at my you know, significant other? Who is you

729
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: know all these things? So thank you for pointing that out,

730
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 3: because it's that is actually exactly what it is. But

731
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 3: when you are I certainly went through it sounds like

732
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: you did as well. I literally thought I'm a I

733
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: am a bad person, I am a weak person. I

734
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,280
Speaker 3: have no self esteem, I have no self worth. And friends,

735
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: it is isolating because friends are like this, can't that's

736
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 3: not what's going on, you know, or also just the

737
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 3: incredible shame that you feel when you realize it and

738
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: admitting it to your friends, you feel like, well, so

739
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: I'm not all of those things because somehow I got

740
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: into the situation I had friends that on staged an

741
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 3: intervention on me and that didn't go well, yeah, oh

742
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: really yeah, And then you know, my therapist was like

743
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 3: this always backfirst. The only time that that's helpful in

744
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: any sort of abusive situation is when someone's life is

745
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 3: in danger, when friends need to intervene and get someone

746
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 3: out of something that was never what was going on.

747
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 3: That sounds like it was probably not what was going

748
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 3: on for you as well. Yeah, that.

749
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 2: I did. I will say I did have friends basically

750
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: cut me off a little bit, not not in not

751
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 2: in our whole friendship, but like to the point where

752
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 2: I kept getting back together with him so much sure

753
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: that they were like, that's you, you can do that.

754
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: I can't support that anymore, and like yes, So I

755
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: was to talk about the shame, the shame and the embarrassment,

756
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,479
Speaker 2: and that's where I started to be like, oh my god.

757
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: And I've kind of even leaned in a a little

758
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 2: bit further into like my attachment and codependency stuff with that,

759
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: because it's almost like an addiction. You're just you're just

760
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 2: so like in the withdraw it's like it's literally like

761
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: a drug addiction. Yep, that until you experience it It

762
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: sounds fucking crazy, but like it trusts me when I

763
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: say my body went into full withdraw. It's one of

764
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: the hardest things I've ever had to do is leave

765
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 2: that relationship.

766
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 3: It's a reason I haven't participated in this program, but

767
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 3: I've had therapists recommended if I need its codependence, Anonymous,

768
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 3: There's a reason there's a twelve step program around it

769
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 3: because it's addictive. And I also, I'm sure you've done

770
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: this work as well. Looking back at your childhood, you know,

771
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 3: what are the patterns that you this This is how

772
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 3: you were shown what love is, and so you tend

773
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 3: to pick people who are in the image of your

774
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 3: caretakers wherever your caretakers were. It's not always your parents,

775
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 3: but yeah, if you think that's what love is, you

776
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 3: will choose people who reinforce worse that because our brains,

777
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:06,120
Speaker 3: like you know, this essentially confirmation bias and learning to

778
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: break that and also just feeling like you're worthy of

779
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 3: something different is a real It's what you said, the

780
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 3: real process.

781
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, the worthiness, because I was just thinking, I think

782
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: I knew it wasn't love, but I also was so

783
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: one in the place of like I can fix this

784
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: that's you know, I had to get out of my

785
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 2: ego a little bit and be like, no, you can't.

786
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: You can't change that one.

787
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 4: You can't change it.

788
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then also really accepting and similar to you,

789
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 2: I had so many other things happening in my life

790
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: at the same time that I thought like my self

791
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: worth had gotten so just taken such a hit that

792
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: I really could not muster up the confidence to be like,

793
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 2: I know I deserve more, I know that, like I'll

794
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: find a better relationship for me. It was more of

795
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: the scarcity mindset of like I'll always be alone.

796
00:38:59,120 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 4: You know.

797
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 2: I had to get out of those narratives. And that's

798
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 2: a really scary place to be when you have no relationship.

799
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 3: With yourself exactly, and that and that relationship is eroding

800
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 3: that even further, which keeps you more locked in. You're

801
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 3: trauma bonded, right, people talk about being trauma bonded. It's

802
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 3: you're essentially brainwashed in this situation. I also was raised,

803
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: you know, to believe that life is supposed to be hard.

804
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 3: You shouldn't like your work, you know, relationships just are

805
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: what they are.

806
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 4: You work into it.

807
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're hard, And so this is maybe my uh,

808
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 3: my Midwestern roots a little bit, not to criticize all

809
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 3: my old family's Midwestern, but you know, hard knocks, right,

810
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 3: Like we pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, and so

811
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 3: to think that you're actually worth something nurturing and and

812
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 3: affirming is kind of not what runs in my blood.

813
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: I'm not saying all my Western people are raised that way,

814
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: but I definitely, it definitely was raised with that belief

815
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 3: and that's hard to break too.

816
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: Well, well, let's when we talked a little bit about

817
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: your recovery and what that looks like. What's the main

818
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: thing that you feel like you learned from being in

819
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: that relationship.

820
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,479
Speaker 3: I think the biggest thing I learned is what love

821
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: does not look like. I think that was kind of

822
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 3: the point of that whole relationship because I actually had

823
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 3: had pretty good relationships before that, actually, and maybe ones

824
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: that were almost so innocent that I was also primed

825
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 3: for this. Yeah, suddenly, you know, you learn this lesson

826
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 3: in a really big way because I just I don't

827
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,479
Speaker 3: think that I was getting needs met, but I didn't

828
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 3: know that I had any so and it really really

829
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 3: made me believe that I was worthy of being treated. Well.

830
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 3: I was telling someone the other day. I didn't have

831
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 3: a bullshit meter at all. It wasn't even that, it

832
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 3: wasn't finally tuned. I didn't have it because people are like,

833
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 3: how did you see all these signs and not know

834
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: because I didn't see these signs or I saw them

835
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: and I chalked them up to something else. So now

836
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 3: I have very finely tuned bullshit meter. I also, you know,

837
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: if someone in my life is showing me signs, I

838
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 3: immediately whereas my old reaction would be like oh, and

839
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: I would suddenly sort of shrink like, oh, let me,

840
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: I can fix that, or it doesn't matter that you're

841
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 3: doing this, It doesn't matter because of all these Now

842
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 3: I go, huhuh, I don't care how cute you are.

843
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 3: That's not gonna work for me. So that's something I

844
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 3: was actually not able to do in the past. I

845
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: don't really deal with passive aggressiveness anymore, which is something

846
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 3: even I I've seen in myself. So yeah, I mean,

847
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 3: there are definitely things of just being able to show

848
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 3: up in the world in a way that serves me

849
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 3: that I never had that I knew I should have

850
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: and would try to work on in therapy, but until

851
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: I changed on the inside and actually learned how to

852
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 3: choose myself and believe I was worthy the bullshit meter,

853
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: you know, calling bullshit, not putting up with shitty but

854
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: behavior people being passive aggressive, like or not being honest

855
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 3: about things I couldn't even did. I couldn't even cultivate

856
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 3: that skill set. And now it's come naturally to the

857
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,919
Speaker 3: point where I shock myself when it happens. I think

858
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 3: I could for do that.

859
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 4: So yay.

860
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: Life.

861
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's huge.

862
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: It's things that you know, people would be like, why

863
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 3: don't you just X write and I would be like,

864
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know how to do that, you know.

865
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, you mentioned that if you have faced

866
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: this or you're feeling like you're facing this in like

867
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 2: a romantic capacity, you've probably dealt with.

868
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 4: It in others. And that was me too.

869
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: It was like, also the way the universe works, It's like, Okay,

870
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a sign, you know, maybe pay attention,

871
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 2: and I'm like light of it, I'm bringing out in rashes,

872
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 2: but whatever I'm gonna say in this relationship, and you know,

873
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 2: things like that. But then also for me, it's like

874
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: the universe comes in and they're like, Okay, well you're

875
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 2: not getting this here, so we're gonna give to hear

876
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: and hear all at the same time so that we

877
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: can get your attention and you pay attention. So what

878
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: other parts did you start to see the same behaviors

879
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: in yourself, like around your whole.

880
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:18,160
Speaker 3: Life, like putting up with narcissistic behavior. Yeah. At the

881
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,280
Speaker 3: time that I was going through this with my ex,

882
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: I had a colleague, so I was literally getting it

883
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 3: from both sides almost twenty four hours a day except

884
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 3: when I was asleep, and I didn't recognize that either.

885
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 3: I was like and when I started doing this treatment,

886
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, I'm going to work

887
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 3: and I'm getting it from her, and then I'm at home,

888
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 3: which in the pandemic is both things home all the time,

889
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: but I'm getting it from him. And also lots of

890
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 3: friends over the years, girlfriends over the years. I started

891
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: to look back and go, oh, but you know, friendships

892
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 3: that I don't have any longer, that I thought had

893
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 3: fallen apart for others, I was dealing with narcissistic behavior,

894
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 3: and my therapist, and I want to point this out

895
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: for everyone was really good about saying I'm not diagnosing

896
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 3: anyone as a narcissist. I can't do that, but recognizing

897
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 3: narcissistic behavior, whether or not the person is actually classified

898
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 3: as that is really all that matters. It's behavior that

899
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 3: you is bringing, not bring out the best in you.

900
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean it was it was mostly like

901
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 3: friends and colleagues like I have been primed for this,

902
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 3: and I think, you know, my parents are very loving

903
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 3: and gentle people, but they didn't really give me any

904
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 3: conflict resolution skills. I was very much raised to turn

905
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 3: the other cheek, which is not a bad thing to

906
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 3: be raised. But because of that, and I'm not pointing

907
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 3: the finger at them, but I definitely put up with

908
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 3: this a lot because I was like, well, that's just

909
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: what you do. You empress for people, and you, you know,

910
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: embrace them, and you see that hurt people, hurt people,

911
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I mean I definitely from from childhood

912
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 3: on was I can go all the way back to

913
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 3: like elementary school and see where there were there were

914
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 3: kids who were exhibiting these kind of behaviors and I

915
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 3: was kind of a bucket for it.

916
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, once you start to kind of like unravel or

917
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: pull the tape back or whatever you want to say.

918
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 2: It's like, wait a second, way, I'm back forty years now.

919
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 4: I'm just starting to see this.

920
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 2: I love that your therapist was like, I can't diagnose

921
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: you know whatever, because obviously she or he hasn't met

922
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: the people, and so that's not a fair thing. And

923
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 2: I actually have gotten to the place where I'm like,

924
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it matters what they are or what

925
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:22,920
Speaker 2: their label is or anything like that.

926
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 4: How am I reacting?

927
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 2: And there is a point in my body that now

928
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: I identify with Okay, I don't feel safe, and to me,

929
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't need to know anything else. I

930
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: don't need to know what your name is, what your whatever.

931
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: Like I just have to turn and walk away. And

932
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: I've done it now multiple times in dating and in

933
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,479
Speaker 2: work situations, and it's new, so it's like I don't

934
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 2: do it perfectly.

935
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 4: But like sure, talk about.

936
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: Freeing and comforting and showing up for yourself is like,

937
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: honestly one of the best feelings I can imagine in

938
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 2: this lifetime.

939
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I mean I think you just encapsulated

940
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 3: it so perfectly, which is any time that you don't

941
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 3: feel good and I don't mean like it doesn't feel

942
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 3: good to have to do my taxes right right? Yeah,

943
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 3: you know this is yeah for being irresponsible. But you're

944
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 3: with a person or in a place or in a

945
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 3: situation and you don't feel you use the best word

946
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 3: for it, you don't feel safe emotionally, you don't feel

947
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 3: you feel bad in this presence. You don't have to

948
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 3: be you don't have to do the thing, you don't

949
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 3: have to go to the place, you don't have to

950
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 3: be with the person like you. Tuning into that in

951
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 3: your body is such a good place to return. And

952
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: I'm with you. I still am, you know. Two steps forward,

953
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 3: one step back, two steps forward, two steps back, Sit down,

954
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: have a cry about it because you just failed. Sometimes

955
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 3: That's what I'm doing sometimes, you know. But yeah, being

956
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 3: gentle with yourself as you cultivate new skill sets. I

957
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 3: think it might be might be misattributing it Young Pueblo

958
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 3: or someone you know, it said, like, you know, part

959
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 3: of when you are adopting healthy behaviors and when you're healing,

960
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 3: the first thing you'll do is react from the wounded

961
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 3: place and go oops, I should have done this. Then

962
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 3: you'll be like, oh, I reacted you know, from the

963
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 3: healed place, and now I feel guilty about it, right,

964
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 3: Like there's like a whole there's a whole process of

965
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 3: that I tell what becomes acting. Then again, I may

966
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 3: be misattributing this or and I'm probably paraphrasing, but this

967
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 3: is how I remember reading about. You know, it's it

968
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 3: takes a while for healed behavior to become second nature,

969
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 3: and just being gentle with yourself on that path as

970
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 3: you're doing, just being like, I'm not going to be perfect.

971
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 3: I just did it the other day, Like I was like,

972
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 3: why did you do that? Like, you know whatever, you

973
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 3: know better, but you'll but you recognize that you know

974
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 3: better and you know it will become more common with practice.

975
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I remember this is about a decade ago.

976
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: But I had just started kind of my healing journey,

977
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 2: if you want to call it that, and I had

978
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,760
Speaker 2: to set a boundary for the first time, and I

979
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 2: it was fine, The person even took it fine. I

980
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 2: got off the phone and sobbed for like an hour.

981
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 2: It was it was so hard for me and it

982
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 2: did not feel good, Like it wasn't this like big

983
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: reward that I thought that I would get. Maybe once

984
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 2: I started to kind of heal. It's it's a tricky

985
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: journey that way, but the corkscrew analogy is the one

986
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: that keeps me going because even when we like quote

987
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: unquote mess up or whatever, nothing is lost in recovery.

988
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 2: You know, it's just another lesson. So even when you

989
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: go down, you're gonna come back up. And it's just

990
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: that's this constant water.

991
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 3: It's such a great way of looking at it, and

992
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 3: you do. And women are conditioned if you set a

993
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 3: boundary or you're not giving all the time that you're

994
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 3: you know, you're selfish, you're a bitch, you're not nice.

995
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,759
Speaker 3: That internal dialogue is really hard to shut down, you know,

996
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 3: you do like and uh, one of my therapists had

997
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 3: a great way of positioning it, which is is it

998
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 3: justified guilt or unjustified guilt? Is it justified shame or

999
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 3: unjustified you like, did you really do something mean to

1000
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 3: another person or wrong to another person that you need

1001
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 3: to feel guilty about? Like do you need to feel

1002
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 3: shame for this? It was like, oh, so I try

1003
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 3: to run that filter through when when I have those

1004
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 3: moments where I'm like, you just set a boundary, you

1005
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: just said no I'm actually not in the mood for

1006
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 3: pizza tonight.

1007
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:24,919
Speaker 2: And they say it, okay, it's okay, okay, Yeah, you didn't.

1008
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 3: Do anything wrong. You're not a bit, you're not disagreeable,

1009
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 3: You're just like, that's not what I'm in the mood

1010
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 3: for at the moment. And that's but it is. It's

1011
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: hard breaking decades of and also generational trauma, cultural trauma,

1012
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 3: the patriarchy. We won't go there right now, but all

1013
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 3: of that is is breaking those cycles and it's painful.

1014
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 3: And I've done the same where you're just like, I

1015
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 3: don't really know, I have to go have a cry

1016
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 3: about this.

1017
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, Which is that how you're gonna process it?

1018
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 4: It's an emotional showers. Yeah, I love that. That's awesome.

1019
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,760
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk little bit about where you are now.

1020
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about the businesses.

1021
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 2: I mean, this is like you're not at Microsoft anymore,

1022
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: but now you're in your own world, So tell us

1023
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: a little bit about that.

1024
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I left Microsoft in October of twenty one,

1025
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 3: And so I mentioned I was declared cancer free in

1026
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: June twenty one, and I said, I just need to

1027
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 3: stick my head in the sand and I wasn't ready

1028
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 3: to deal with anything with the relationship, and I still

1029
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 3: thought there was hope and we could, you know, kind

1030
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 3: of make things work. But what did feel very life

1031
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 3: affirming to me in June of twenty twenty one was

1032
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 3: to spend the summer thinking about because I felt like

1033
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 3: it was time to leave Microsoft again. And it's such

1034
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 3: a wonderful company. They've lived everywhere that I've been in

1035
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 3: my life. Professionally, you know something that I've learned there,

1036
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 3: or a skill set I've picked up. So but I

1037
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 3: knew it was time to go out on my own again.

1038
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 3: And I knew that I wanted to do storytelling, and

1039
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 3: now I had the skill set to not just do

1040
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 3: written storytelling, written communications, brand marketing, but now I could

1041
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 3: do video audio. I fell in love with podcasting, and

1042
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: I wanted to help others create podcast organizations and individuals.

1043
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 3: How do you create this and tell stories in this

1044
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 3: like beautiful forum as you do, I mean, and have

1045
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 3: done for so long, and this really intimate and personal

1046
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 3: way that resonates with people. So September October of twenty

1047
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 3: twenty one, I left Microsoft and I took three months off.

1048
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 3: You can talk about stopping I was like, I just

1049
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 3: need to process what has happened to me, processed what

1050
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 3: was happening in my relationship, what had happened to my body.

1051
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 3: We had moved, the pandemic was kind of starting to

1052
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 3: lift a little bit at that point, process what had

1053
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 3: happened with this colleague I had worked with, and just

1054
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 3: take a few months, which doesn't even seem like that long.

1055
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 3: But in January twenty twenty two, on one eleven, because

1056
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: I'm very into Angel numbers one eleven twenty two, I

1057
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 3: started my official journey and I still work with Microsoft.

1058
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 3: There's still my clients, So I guess that's you know, affirming,

1059
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 3: But yeah, podcasting audio storytelling is a big piece of it,

1060
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 3: and video scripting production in you know, helping executives leaders

1061
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 3: telling their stories in these ways. And then in April

1062
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 3: of twenty two, as I mentioned, I started producing Here

1063
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 3: for Me, which is my own storytelling forum to talk

1064
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 3: about my I started out talking about my journey, you know,

1065
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 3: this is why I'm telling these stories, and then having

1066
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 3: other people on who have been through something life changing,

1067
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 3: life altering what lessons have they learned about choosing themselves?

1068
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 3: And that premiered in October and We're just about to

1069
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 3: wrap season two tomorrow, and it has been and continues

1070
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 3: to be one of the most incredible journeys I've had

1071
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: to have this opportunity to have, as you do on

1072
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 3: your show, raw candid conversations. I feel like people are

1073
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,320
Speaker 3: craving it after the pandemic, like, no more bullshit, No,

1074
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 3: let's put all of our shit out there, please, because

1075
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 3: when you do that, I think everyone sees we're all

1076
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 3: more like than we are different. We can find threads

1077
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,359
Speaker 3: of continuity, and we can't heal without being honest about

1078
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 3: what we're going through. And you mentioned, you know, narcissism.

1079
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: I love that we're having this conversation about this because

1080
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 3: this is way more prevalent than anyone understands. And I

1081
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 3: think it's way more prevalent, as you said in strong, smart,

1082
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 3: successful women who aren't supposed to be in quotes going

1083
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 3: through this. So yeah, I know That's where I'm at today.

1084
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 3: I'm still in San Diego. I love it here. I

1085
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 3: am now divorced from my ex husband and enjoying my

1086
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 3: life and enjoying myself and meeting people and having conversations

1087
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 3: and enjoying the sun and the beach and very optimistic

1088
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 3: about what is ahead. It's the first time in my life.

1089
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 3: You know. I'm sure you have as well. I've had

1090
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: a few moments where I had opportunities to sort of relign.

1091
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 3: This is the first time that I'm like, you actually

1092
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,359
Speaker 3: found your path. That's very early. We'll see what's going

1093
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 3: to unfold. And so there's an optimism and a hope.

1094
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 3: As much as there has been sadness and grief along

1095
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 3: the way as well, there's definitely hope for what's ahead.

1096
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 3: I love that.

1097
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 2: I just had this question that popped up in I have,

1098
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 2: But what's something like, what's one thing every day you

1099
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 2: do to get back in touch with yourself?

1100
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 3: I am Music is my lifeblood Seattle, so you know,

1101
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 3: Seattle Vands. I'm a rock and roll girl at heart.

1102
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 3: It is very important to me. And I blew my

1103
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 3: ear drums out basically as a teenager because music was

1104
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 3: therapy for me. I didn't even care. I was headphones

1105
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 3: before headphones, so every day at some point, and I

1106
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 3: talked about on the first episode of season two of

1107
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 3: the podcast how music was so key to healing, and

1108
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,320
Speaker 3: I created a playlist for people if they want to listen.

1109
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 3: I was listening to it, probably way too much, probably

1110
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 3: twenty hours a day. I had my EarPods in while

1111
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 3: I was grieving when I went through my divorce, but

1112
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 3: it was part of the process. So now though that

1113
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 3: is still I have got to get music on. You

1114
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 3: live in Nashville, Oh yeah, you work in this industry,

1115
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 3: you understand this. That is how I get back in

1116
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,280
Speaker 3: touch with myself. You know. I have bands and songs

1117
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 3: that just sort of help me get centered. And then

1118
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 3: that's where answers flow from. So air pods go in

1119
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 3: or I'm driving in the car or you know, I

1120
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 3: live in a in a high rise building in downtown

1121
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 3: San Diego.

1122
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 4: So like, I can't blast music as.

1123
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 3: Loud as I like people.

1124
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't do that.

1125
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 3: I probably get thrown out. So yeah, that's every day

1126
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 3: there's got to be some music, and I know when

1127
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 3: it happens, and I will literally say out loud, I

1128
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 3: need tunes, I need tunes, I need tunes. Yeah, and

1129
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 3: I just need or I'll go for a walk with

1130
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 3: my AirPods in and walk through downtown San Diego, walk

1131
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 3: to the bay, get to Coronado, I walk on Coronado

1132
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 3: Beach a lot uh with headphones in so or your

1133
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 3: air pods in. So that's that's really key.

1134
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that every person I ask that question

1135
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,399
Speaker 2: to you has a completely different answer, and so I'm

1136
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: like giving me ideas. I'm a walk or two. So

1137
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,320
Speaker 2: that's like one of the ways I really kind of recenter.

1138
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 2: Even like I say this all the time on the

1139
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: podcast twenty Minutes is like game changing for my day

1140
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 2: or putting on good music in some I have to dance.

1141
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 4: That's like a really good recess.

1142
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: You know.

1143
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 3: Someone told me once that, you know, Americans were like

1144
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 3: the only culture that doesn't really have dance. If you

1145
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,839
Speaker 3: think about like Ireland, Africa, Mexico, Spain, you know, they

1146
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 3: all Argentina tango. Most cultures have some form of dance

1147
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 3: that is a way to connect and release, and for

1148
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 3: some reason Americans kind of don't. But I'm with you.

1149
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 3: I mean I have private dance parties all the time. Yeah,

1150
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 3: sounds like you do as well. And it's very it

1151
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 3: was very you know, grounding, yes, centering and in your

1152
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 3: walking outside you know, you're you're connecting with the earth.

1153
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 3: It's so important to do that.

1154
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, and and bringing you back to your body.

1155
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 2: I think that's especially because it's not like you go

1156
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: through a situation where you went through narcissistic abuse and

1157
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 2: you're not prone to it anymore. Like it's always there,

1158
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 2: and so it's always there. It's something that you have

1159
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 2: to constantly work on within yourself. And for me, it's

1160
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: been developing a relationship with myself that I've never had before.

1161
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 3: So it sounds like that's for you too. That is

1162
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 3: beautiful and I love that. Yeah, keep grounding and keep centering.

1163
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nicole, thank you so much for being here. I'm

1164
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 2: going to put all the links to her podcast where

1165
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: else you guys can find Nicole in the description of

1166
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: this podcast that I just loved having this conversation.

1167
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 4: And thank you for the work that you're doing.

1168
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. It has been an absolute honor

1169
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 3: and a delight and your kindred spirit. So thank you

1170
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 3: all the light that you put out into the world

1171
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 3: on your podcast and the work that you do.

1172
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 4: Thank you so much. Thank you guys for listening.

1173
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

1174
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a

1175
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,

1176
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge. Wherever you get your podcasts