WEBVTT - How Harry Styles Helped SC Perot Rediscover Joy

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<v Speaker 1>Hello Bessie's Hello Sunshine.

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<v Speaker 2>Today on the bright Side, we're talking to writer and

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<v Speaker 2>professor sc Pirot. She set out on a mission to

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<v Speaker 2>rediscover joy after a painful chapter in her life. Her

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<v Speaker 2>journey back to happiness was sparked by an unexpected source,

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<v Speaker 2>none other than pop icon Harry Styles. Tune in for

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<v Speaker 2>a story of healing, music and the power of joy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, March third. I'm Simone Boyce.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Danielle Robey, and this is the bright Side from

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<v Speaker 2>Hello Sunshine.

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<v Speaker 1>On my Mind. Monday is brought to you by Laurel Paris. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what time it is, Yes, ma'am. What's on

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<v Speaker 1>your mind today? Simone? Okay? Well, I got to give

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<v Speaker 1>a shout out to my man, Happy King, Arthur C. Brooks.

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<v Speaker 1>You know we love him. On the bright Side, so

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<v Speaker 1>he recently wrote a piece for The Atlantic called The

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<v Speaker 1>Benefit of Doing Things You're Bad at And as you

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<v Speaker 1>can imagine, it's all about embracing phil here.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I'm so bad at this?

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<v Speaker 1>Why why are you? Why do you say that?

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<v Speaker 2>I am such I don't even like to use the

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<v Speaker 2>word perfectionist, but I am. I hate doing things I'm

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<v Speaker 2>bad at I love being good at things, and I

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<v Speaker 2>just find it so difficult to do things you're bad at,

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<v Speaker 2>especially if you don't love them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so I know this is hard for you

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<v Speaker 1>because you are good at a lot of things. I'm not, actually,

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<v Speaker 1>and I know you like to be good at a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of things. But when is the last time that

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<v Speaker 1>you felt like you did something that you were bad at?

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<v Speaker 1>Really out of my depth? Yeah, a few things.

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<v Speaker 2>One I feel really out of my depth in the kitchen,

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<v Speaker 2>and I feel embarrassed that I'm out of my depth

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<v Speaker 2>there because I feel like I should.

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<v Speaker 1>Be good at it.

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<v Speaker 2>And also anything that has to do with drawing. When

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<v Speaker 2>the last time you felt out of your depth?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's funny you should ask, because I recently started

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<v Speaker 1>taking singing lessons and I'm doing it with my friend Liz,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is so much fun to do it together.

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<v Speaker 1>And let me tell you, we are so bad. Our

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<v Speaker 1>first duet to use a word that I know you'll appreciate, Danielle,

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<v Speaker 1>was cacoffiness. Okay, it was surprisingly know that word. You

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<v Speaker 1>know this word? Yes, true sacking, But I love this

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<v Speaker 1>for you. What sparks this? Liz and I have always

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<v Speaker 1>been like, we don't want to work together because we

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to ruin our friendship because we've seen so

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<v Speaker 1>many friendships do that, right, like where you like go

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<v Speaker 1>you start working with someone and then you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>start fighting, things get messy, YadA YadA. But we love

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<v Speaker 1>like trying new things together, and so this year we

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<v Speaker 1>kind of made this commitment where we're just like, we're

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<v Speaker 1>we're just going to follow the fun, right, Like there's

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<v Speaker 1>no stakes here, there's no we're not doing this for

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<v Speaker 1>any reason or for a job or anything. We're just

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<v Speaker 1>doing it for fun. And after our first class, we

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<v Speaker 1>both walked out feeling so empowered. There were so many

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<v Speaker 1>benefits to it, Like first of all, all that great

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<v Speaker 1>breath work that you get during singing, true it makes

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<v Speaker 1>you feel so grounded in your body afterwards. And then

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<v Speaker 1>there's also just something incredibly freeing about just letting yourself

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<v Speaker 1>be awful at something and having a great time doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I think this is so fun and I'm so

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<v Speaker 2>glad you shared this because I think it's inspiring. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>how so, I think it's a domino effect, Like to

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<v Speaker 2>do things as an adult that you did as a

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<v Speaker 2>kid is really really sol fulfilling if you can carve

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<v Speaker 2>out the time for it. I remember after the Olympics

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<v Speaker 2>this last summer, there was a spike in adult gymnastics

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<v Speaker 2>sign ups, like for classes.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I almost did it.

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<v Speaker 2>I love gymnastics as a kid, and it's like, I

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't carve out the time. So the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>you did carve out the time and you're doing it

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<v Speaker 2>with a friend, I think is so cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, honestly, all of this kind of ties right into

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<v Speaker 1>what Arthur Brooks was saying in that article. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>his whole point is that doing something you're bad at

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<v Speaker 1>can actually make you better at things you're good at.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the part that I wasn't expecting. So what does

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<v Speaker 1>he mean. Well, if you're trying to be great at

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<v Speaker 1>a certain skill, he suggests you should flunk on something else. Like,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, a recent study of baseball players, they looked

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<v Speaker 1>at skilled pitchers, people who are typically poor hitters. They

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<v Speaker 1>were given batting practice, so they were, you know, kind

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<v Speaker 1>of placed out of their comfort zone and placed into

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<v Speaker 1>this new area where they where they felt this pressure

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<v Speaker 1>to excel, and then when they underperformed, scholars found that

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<v Speaker 1>the frustration that came from that inferior performance actually led

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<v Speaker 1>them to be more driven to improve their pitching. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's almost it's almost counterintuitive, but it's like it's circular.

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder what that is though, right, Yeah, that is

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<v Speaker 2>so strange. I do say, I think I can relate

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<v Speaker 2>on a surface level. I don't quite understand that study

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm like, what is being in the outfield have

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<v Speaker 2>to do with hitting? But if the King Arthur Brooks

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<v Speaker 2>says it, I believe him. But I do think that

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<v Speaker 2>if I feel writer's block or a creative block at all,

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<v Speaker 2>it's the only thing that gets my creative juice is going.

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<v Speaker 2>Is if I get out of that mode, I have

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<v Speaker 2>to go for a run or do something totally different,

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<v Speaker 2>go to the ocean, have a fun day, everything that

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<v Speaker 2>you think you're not supposed to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's my theory. My theory is that failing in one

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<v Speaker 1>area where there's no stakes for you, there's less pressure

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<v Speaker 1>that sort of releases that pressure valve around the fear

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<v Speaker 1>of failure. And then I think releasing that pressure valve

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<v Speaker 1>and releasing yourself from the fear of failure actually facilitates

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<v Speaker 1>success in the area that you already excel in does

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<v Speaker 1>that make sense? That makes total sense?

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<v Speaker 2>I agree.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I gotta tell you, these singing lessons have brought

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<v Speaker 1>me so much joy. It's got me thinking about how

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<v Speaker 1>do I infuse my life with more joy? And when

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<v Speaker 1>I think about people who know how to do that, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think about my friend sc Pro, who is today's

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<v Speaker 1>guest ess and I met at group therapy camp, which

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<v Speaker 1>I have spoken about a lot on this show, but

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to bring her here on the show and

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<v Speaker 1>introduce her to you. Guys are besties because she has

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<v Speaker 1>this wild story about how she found joy after this

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<v Speaker 1>truly crushing, devastating period of grief. So in twenty twenty two,

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<v Speaker 1>sc went through this horrible divorce and no matter what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of coping mechanisms she tried, she just couldn't pull

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<v Speaker 1>herself out of that darkness.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's where her story takes an unexpected turn. All

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to say is that Harry Styles is at

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<v Speaker 2>the center of it all.

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<v Speaker 1>You're onto something there, Danielle. Her new book, Styles of Joy,

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<v Speaker 1>lays out this framework that we can all use to

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<v Speaker 1>find joy. And this is the same path that she

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<v Speaker 1>used to discover joy after going to seventeen Harry Styles

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<v Speaker 1>Concerts seventeen. We're going to break this all down for

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<v Speaker 1>you in the interview. At the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that all of us have the means

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<v Speaker 1>or the time to pack up our lives and go

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<v Speaker 1>on tour with an artist and go to seventeen concerts.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's all about just leaning into the unexpected, all right, Chelle.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break our conversation with Scproro.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks to our partners at Loriel Paris, because you're worth it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, welcome to the bright Side, sc Proro, Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much for having me, Essie. This has been a

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<v Speaker 1>long time coming. I was so profoundly moved by this book,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was just so inspired by your journey to joy.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's what we're going to get into today. Your

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<v Speaker 1>new book, Styles of Joy, chronicles this unexpected path to

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<v Speaker 1>discovering joy after overcoming insurmountable grief. You actually mentioned joy

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<v Speaker 1>over six hundred and fifty times in this book. Isn't

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<v Speaker 1>that wild.

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<v Speaker 3>I love that fact.

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<v Speaker 1>But before we get into how you rediscovered joy, we

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<v Speaker 1>really have to start with how you lost track of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So will you take us back to twenty twenty two.

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<v Speaker 1>You described that as the time when your life truly

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<v Speaker 1>fell apart.

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<v Speaker 4>So I was navigating all of a sudden, so many

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<v Speaker 4>life changes at once. I think everyone can relate to

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<v Speaker 4>how disruptive the pandemic was for all of us. And

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<v Speaker 4>we all were navigating that grief process. And I also

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<v Speaker 4>stopped practicing big law, and I got out of the

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<v Speaker 4>wrong marriage, kind of all back to back. And I

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<v Speaker 4>say to people all the time, anyone that thinks divorce

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<v Speaker 4>is solely about two people is completely mistaken. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>I lost an entire family, a whole group of friends,

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<v Speaker 4>my house, my dog, let alone, my partner.

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<v Speaker 1>The way that you wrote about divorce in your book

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<v Speaker 1>really illuminated this experience for me because I've never been

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<v Speaker 1>through it before. But the way that you retell your

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<v Speaker 1>experience helped me really understand what other people are going through.

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<v Speaker 1>You write that divorce is inherently lonely. Quote. My therapist

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<v Speaker 1>told me that even if I spent the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>my life recounting every single detail, going over every exchange

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<v Speaker 1>word she still could never and would never fully understand

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<v Speaker 1>because she hadn't lived it.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's lonely for so many reasons.

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<v Speaker 4>You know. It's that line that you just said that

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<v Speaker 4>even if you spind and spin your wheels and try

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<v Speaker 4>to explain how you got there and how you're feeling now,

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<v Speaker 4>no one's walking it we you. And I think the

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<v Speaker 4>especially lonely element of that is that the closest person

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<v Speaker 4>to this heartbreak is now the furthest person away. The

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<v Speaker 4>one person that might be able to relate to what

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<v Speaker 4>you're feeling is offline because of the nature of the situation,

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<v Speaker 4>and all of a sudden, all these people that I

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<v Speaker 4>had so unabashedly woven into my life, you know, I

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<v Speaker 4>lost a bonus mom, a bonus dad, a bonus sister,

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<v Speaker 4>a bonus brother. I lost my nieces. I was grappling

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<v Speaker 4>with whether I was still an aunt, you know, and

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<v Speaker 4>it was so heartbreaking in.

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<v Speaker 3>So many ways.

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<v Speaker 4>And I write in the book that all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 4>all these people in my life were on this kind

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<v Speaker 4>of like mental subcategory of people I cared about called

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<v Speaker 4>send good vibes, not text messages, you know, suddenly all

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<v Speaker 4>these people I loved were offline, and that was really

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<v Speaker 4>difficult to wrap my head around. And you can't move

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<v Speaker 4>forward unless you know where you are to go, and

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<v Speaker 4>that's a really lonely road too, And especially because I

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<v Speaker 4>was navigating a career pivot at the same time. I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>it was okay, where what are we building? Back brick

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<v Speaker 4>by brick in This New Life.

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<v Speaker 2>In the book, you talk about some of the things

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<v Speaker 2>that you did to try to cope. You rite that

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<v Speaker 2>they weren't really helping. At what point did you realize

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<v Speaker 2>you needed to make a major shift.

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<v Speaker 3>There were days I tried everything I knew to do.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 4>I was journaling, doing yoga, walking, talking to my lawyers,

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<v Speaker 4>crying of friends and family, browsing in the self help section.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, like you name it, I was. I was

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<v Speaker 3>throwing it all at the wall.

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<v Speaker 4>I was processing everything I was going through by going

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<v Speaker 4>on these long walks around the Town Lake Trail in

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<v Speaker 4>downtown Austin, Texas, which is where I was living at

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<v Speaker 4>the time. And I remember vividly typing good Energy in

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<v Speaker 4>on Spotify one day on these long walks because it

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<v Speaker 4>was like a cry for help to the algorithm. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 4>can we get some good energy up in here? It

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<v Speaker 4>is pretty grim, and I tell people all the time,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm like, and that's the saddest part of the story.

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<v Speaker 3>We are on our way up.

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<v Speaker 1>So everybody listening get ready to go on an adventure,

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<v Speaker 1>because this is where it really gets fun. You got

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<v Speaker 1>some help from this unexpected source, a world famous pop

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<v Speaker 1>star Harry Styles and his latest album, Harry's House.

0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.960
<v Speaker 4>Spotify fed me a playlist called Good Energy, and I

0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.040
<v Speaker 4>was like, oh, click, that's exactly what I want. And

0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 4>Harry styles third album, Harry's House, came out two days

0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.000
<v Speaker 4>after I told my ex husband I wanted a divorce.

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 4>So the new music was sprinkled throughout this Good Energy

0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.040
<v Speaker 4>playlist and that's where the story begins.

0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:54.640
<v Speaker 1>So what was it about that album, that music that

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.000
<v Speaker 1>really clicked within you? Like, what was it that caused

0:12:58.000 --> 0:12:58.520
<v Speaker 1>that shift?

0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.840
<v Speaker 3>I would like to get a wholehearted shout out to

0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.040
<v Speaker 3>a particular song music for a sushi restaurant.

0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so it's got one in particular.

0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.280
<v Speaker 4>I heard that song and I was on one of

0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 4>my long walks and I was like, wait a second,

0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.360
<v Speaker 4>this is this is a tear dryer. This song is

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.880
<v Speaker 4>a banger, and I all of a sudden, was seeking

0:13:20.960 --> 0:13:25.199
<v Speaker 4>that song out specifically. Now, music for a Sushi Restaurant

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:29.760
<v Speaker 4>is perfectly situated as track one to start the entire

0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.160
<v Speaker 4>Harry's House album. So that's really how this started is

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:36.640
<v Speaker 4>I was queueing up that good Vibe one song, and

0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 4>all of a sudden, I was like, Harry Styles. I've

0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 4>never really listened to Harry Styles. You know, I joke

0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 4>I was a little too old for the one direction days.

0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.960
<v Speaker 4>I'm an in sync Backstreet Boys girly and I'm like,

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 4>Harry Styles, Okay, what else?

0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.160
<v Speaker 3>What else does this guy got?

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.679
<v Speaker 4>Then I'm listening to just Harry's House, and I think

0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.920
<v Speaker 4>it's worth mentioning that it might be helpful for anyone

0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:02.000
<v Speaker 4>going through a breakup or a divorce or anything to

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 4>find something new. You know, this album, I had no

0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 4>memories attached to it. It was just this fresh kind

0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:13.320
<v Speaker 4>of new energy in addition to being good energy. And

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.560
<v Speaker 4>so I'm listening to that album and then I'm like,

0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.400
<v Speaker 4>wait a second, they're two more. It was like an

0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:21.720
<v Speaker 4>unwrapped Christmas present to find an artist that you loved

0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:25.520
<v Speaker 4>that I had never paid attention to. And you know,

0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.600
<v Speaker 4>fast forward I I'm really jumping ahead, but I saw

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.960
<v Speaker 4>his show seventeen times in five countries and travel with

0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:34.400
<v Speaker 4>strangers I met along the way and had an entire

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:39.920
<v Speaker 4>Harry Styles eat Prey love adventure, and that's what inspired

0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:40.320
<v Speaker 4>the book.

0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 1>So I love you and your story so much because

0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.000
<v Speaker 1>on the one hand, you're this You're this like serious person.

0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.800
<v Speaker 1>You're like a serious lawyer and a serious professor at Vanderbilt,

0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.760
<v Speaker 1>and you went through some serious stuff. You got a

0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 1>divorce during the pandemic, and you moved cities, like that's

0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:02.760
<v Speaker 1>all serious life transition stuff. But on the other hand,

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.680
<v Speaker 1>this book is deeply unserious. If I'm allowed to say that,

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, like, we're talking about fangirling over a pop star.

0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 1>So where are you at with wrapping your head around

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:15.400
<v Speaker 1>that irony?

0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:21.239
<v Speaker 4>I think it's really so exciting to just unabashedly reconcile

0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 4>the two. Where did this narrative come from? That serious

0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 4>lawyers also can't be super fans? Yes, why can't people

0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 4>in academia also love something wholeheartedly? I'm so passionate about

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 4>exploring this dynamic of the stigma around being a fangirl

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 4>in general, because I do think it's so gender. You

0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:45.240
<v Speaker 4>know what's interesting is in the middle of the night

0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.920
<v Speaker 4>one night, I was like, I wonder how many games

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 4>any NFL team plays per season? Because I was thinking, like,

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:56.440
<v Speaker 4>what if someone healed post of Wars, a man healed

0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 4>post divorce by going to every single game of their

0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:03.040
<v Speaker 4>favorite NFL team. You know what the number is? Seventeen.

0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.560
<v Speaker 4>I started laughing so hard. I was like, it is

0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.720
<v Speaker 4>the exact number of shows I went to. And I

0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.800
<v Speaker 4>was like, that's so wild. But there's such an interesting,

0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.600
<v Speaker 4>I think gender element there. When this book was going

0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.080
<v Speaker 4>under legal review, I got to call one of my

0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:24.360
<v Speaker 4>former bosses and she's this total powerhouse partner at this

0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:28.280
<v Speaker 4>big firm and she's just the coolest and she got

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.760
<v Speaker 4>on the phone with me. I had no idea. She

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:35.360
<v Speaker 4>was like the ultimate Madonna superfan. She's like, I've seen

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 4>her thirty five times. I took two weeks off work

0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.200
<v Speaker 4>to be a showrunner for her Super Bowl halftime performance

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:47.360
<v Speaker 4>years ago, and she said, this is the manifesto for

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.000
<v Speaker 4>people like us who have a passion and get so

0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.360
<v Speaker 4>much flak for it, particularly in a male dominated workplace. Oh,

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.840
<v Speaker 4>she's going to another Madonna show and she's like, you know,

0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 4>what yeah, I am because I work super hard and

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:04.080
<v Speaker 4>this brings me more joy than anything in the world.

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 3>And I'm not sorry.

0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:09.479
<v Speaker 1>You're so right, Like I so relate to this because

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.879
<v Speaker 1>when I worked in news, I often felt like I

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.840
<v Speaker 1>had to present a certain way, like I had to

0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:19.720
<v Speaker 1>be maintain this like straight laced news anchor persona, and

0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.720
<v Speaker 1>if I didn't, then my authority would be in question.

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.720
<v Speaker 1>But it's such like a false binary that we've created,

0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't serve us. When I saw Gail King

0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 1>on the cover of Sports Illustrated, you know, at her

0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:37.080
<v Speaker 1>ripe age wearing this bikini in Mexico, looking super hot

0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.560
<v Speaker 1>and sexy, I was like, you know what, hell yeah,

0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.919
<v Speaker 1>hell yeah, she can do that, and she can go

0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:43.720
<v Speaker 1>on the news and she can tell us what's happening

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:44.280
<v Speaker 1>in our world.

0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Es see, I want to hear more about that joy

0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 2>that you're talking about. So you walk into this first

0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 2>Harry Styles show and what happens, Like, what about that

0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 2>experience sparked so much in you?

0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 4>Interestingly, the first show was not that great. I think

0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 4>people might expect. Oh, I saw one show. The rest

0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 4>is history, Joy rediscovered, I gallivanted, and I was healed

0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.160
<v Speaker 4>That's really not how it went at all. I had

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.800
<v Speaker 4>been listening to Harry Styles all day, every day, for which,

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.720
<v Speaker 4>for the record, I don't even know how much I

0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.120
<v Speaker 4>was aware of that fact. You know, I was in

0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.600
<v Speaker 4>such intense grief that I kind of kept hitting play

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.480
<v Speaker 4>on what I knew was working. But by the time

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.920
<v Speaker 4>I got to this show, you know, I was there

0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.159
<v Speaker 4>with an acquaintance who invited me, and I kind of

0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:34.720
<v Speaker 4>was like, you know what, I will step outside of

0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.120
<v Speaker 4>my comfort zone. I had never previously been a fan

0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.800
<v Speaker 4>of big crowds. I would have told you I liked

0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.560
<v Speaker 4>live music, but the previous time I had traveled in

0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.480
<v Speaker 4>quotes for a show was forty minutes. Forty five minutes.

0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.920
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I was not the fangirl, you know, archetype,

0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.840
<v Speaker 4>And all of a sudden, I'm in this ocean of

0:18:54.880 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 4>inside jokes, Like people are doing choreography that is fan created.

0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.400
<v Speaker 4>People are, you know, holding up signs that make no

0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.040
<v Speaker 4>sense to a newcomer. You know, this is some deep subculture,

0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.679
<v Speaker 4>hardcore fandom at work. Everyone seemed to have a handbook

0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.879
<v Speaker 4>for this experience. And I'm thinking, I listened to a

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 4>lot of Harry's music. How do I not know what's

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.840
<v Speaker 4>going on, and it made me so curious. So I

0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 4>did these deep dives on TikTok and Instagram, and all

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.639
<v Speaker 4>of a sudden, I already had an invite to a

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.679
<v Speaker 4>second show to sit in the nosebleeds with all my

0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.320
<v Speaker 4>best girlfriends. And by the time I was at the

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.880
<v Speaker 4>second show, I was like, Okay, so that's his drummer

0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 4>down there, and she's married to the guitar player and

0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:39.320
<v Speaker 4>they met through the band.

0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:40.080
<v Speaker 3>Isn't that cute.

0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.120
<v Speaker 4>It was like, the more I learned, the more I liked,

0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.639
<v Speaker 4>and I realized that Harry Styles is the ted Lasso

0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:51.480
<v Speaker 4>of the music industry. I mean, it's all kindness. It

0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 4>is the sweetest culture.

0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:54.239
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:56.600
<v Speaker 4>You come for Harry and you stay for the fans.

0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.439
<v Speaker 4>I think is a great way to put it.

0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.480
<v Speaker 1>I love the way that you who approached each one

0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.000
<v Speaker 1>of these concerts and your conversations with the fans that

0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:08.480
<v Speaker 1>you met there. You actually almost treated it like an investigation,

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:14.000
<v Speaker 1>not just an investigation into the fandom, but also introspectively,

0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.000
<v Speaker 1>like turning the questions in the lens on yourself. You

0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.919
<v Speaker 1>were asking yourself these hard hitting questions about joy, like

0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.440
<v Speaker 1>what is joy? Who has it? Who doesn't? Is it big?

0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.399
<v Speaker 1>Is it small? Is it permanent? Is it fleeting? What

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:31.160
<v Speaker 1>did you learn from other fans through your investigation?

0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 4>It was so inspiring to me because I was new

0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:38.080
<v Speaker 4>to this world and I'm meeting people who have they've

0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:41.119
<v Speaker 4>been They've been in the Harry Styles orbit for thirteen years,

0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.200
<v Speaker 4>and I was wondering, you know, what does this mean

0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 4>to you? I can tell you what this means to me,

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:48.160
<v Speaker 4>but it's hard to pick a favorite.

0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:48.479
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:51.639
<v Speaker 4>I met a mother daughter duo outside of the Kia Forum.

0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.040
<v Speaker 4>I offered to take their photo. They offered to take

0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.800
<v Speaker 4>mine in front of this Harry Styles backdrop. I've talked

0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.440
<v Speaker 4>to them almost every single day since January of twenty

0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.879
<v Speaker 4>twenty three, like we are super close friends. They're driving

0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:05.360
<v Speaker 4>several hours to see me on book tour. We've gone

0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.000
<v Speaker 4>to other concerts together. One of my greatest takeaways about

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.480
<v Speaker 4>joy is the relationship between joy and judgment.

0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:13.359
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.200
<v Speaker 4>That was a huge takeaway from me. And the opposite

0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:21.000
<v Speaker 4>of joyful is not joyless. It's judgmental, you know. I

0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.879
<v Speaker 4>write that so often we judge the what when we

0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 4>don't know the why.

0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:26.440
<v Speaker 3>I was getting mean.

0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.879
<v Speaker 4>Dms have you lost your mind, what the hell are

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.679
<v Speaker 4>you doing? And on and on, and I just was

0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.200
<v Speaker 4>so grateful for these experiences and what they were doing

0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.840
<v Speaker 4>for me that it made me look around those concerts

0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.040
<v Speaker 4>and wonder, what does this mean to other people in

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.800
<v Speaker 4>this room? And that really inspired this curiosity that you

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:47.920
<v Speaker 4>alluded to.

0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Was there a turning point for you? When did you

0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.119
<v Speaker 2>discover you were coming out of your grief.

0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.000
<v Speaker 4>Harry has a song called Sign of the Times, and

0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.320
<v Speaker 4>the lyrics are stop your crying baby, It'll be all right.

0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.400
<v Speaker 4>And I had heard that song several times, but that

0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:08.359
<v Speaker 4>lyric just didn't land yet because I just I was like, no,

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 4>I'm in the thick of it, you know, I'm not

0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.119
<v Speaker 4>feeling like it's time to kind of stop this grief,

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:15.480
<v Speaker 4>which is what that lyric kind of sounded like to me.

0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:18.560
<v Speaker 4>But all of a sudden, we're at the final show.

0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.399
<v Speaker 4>I'm I'm with someone I met in a bathroom line

0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 4>who had extra tickets, and I'm hearing Harry Styles saying,

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:28.159
<v Speaker 4>stop your crying baby, It'll be all right, at the

0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.920
<v Speaker 4>biggest show of his career, at the end of this adventure,

0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:36.360
<v Speaker 4>and the sky's opened up and it started pouring rain,

0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:39.240
<v Speaker 4>at the same time, the fireworks are all going off.

0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:41.159
<v Speaker 3>It was not in the forecast.

0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:45.160
<v Speaker 4>It was this total freak thing, and I mean everyone

0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:48.919
<v Speaker 4>is losing it. It was the most cinematic moment of

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:52.000
<v Speaker 4>my entire life. And as people are splashing and screaming

0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.359
<v Speaker 4>and pulling out their phones and dancing and like in

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.120
<v Speaker 4>total shock, you know, I'm standing there as still as

0:22:58.119 --> 0:22:59.760
<v Speaker 4>a statue, and all of a sudden, I had this

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:05.880
<v Speaker 4>of Oh, I did it, and I ran this race.

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:09.639
<v Speaker 4>And that was about thirteen months post separation, and it

0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:14.440
<v Speaker 4>really felt like my life can be bifurcated into you know,

0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:18.080
<v Speaker 4>pre Wimbley in the rain and post Wimbley in the rain.

0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:20.919
<v Speaker 4>And it was such a turning point for me, the

0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.440
<v Speaker 4>biggest show, the biggest crescendo. I was leaving the next

0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:27.160
<v Speaker 4>day to go back to the States after this unexpected

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:30.199
<v Speaker 4>thirty days with hardly anything with me and traveling with

0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:32.760
<v Speaker 4>strangers and kind of rolling with it and having this

0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:38.120
<v Speaker 4>unexpected journey. And it's called the finale in the book

0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:39.120
<v Speaker 4>for multiple reasons.

0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:42.639
<v Speaker 1>So you said that you can't explain why it was

0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.960
<v Speaker 1>that that moment was so transformative, But I just want

0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.200
<v Speaker 1>to probe a little bit further, like, why do you think,

0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:51.920
<v Speaker 1>why was it that moment that changed everything?

0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:57.360
<v Speaker 4>I think it's because I was in this season of

0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:01.439
<v Speaker 4>such identity stripping. I was no longer a lawyer, I

0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:03.639
<v Speaker 4>was no longer a wife, I was no longer a

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.639
<v Speaker 4>daughter in law, sister in law, and you know, I

0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:09.439
<v Speaker 4>was no longer So and So's neighbor. You know, so

0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:14.119
<v Speaker 4>many identities in my life were changing or getting stripped away.

0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.879
<v Speaker 4>I think one of those transformative elements of going to

0:24:17.920 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 4>these concerts is that the vast majority of them, I

0:24:21.720 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 4>was an anonymous stranger in a crowd, and it's like

0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:32.600
<v Speaker 4>I had the interest to go even further in the

0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:36.080
<v Speaker 4>context of identity stripping. So if all these things that

0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:40.320
<v Speaker 4>I that were billed as mattering so much, career and

0:24:40.359 --> 0:24:44.560
<v Speaker 4>being married and all these things, if all that's gone,

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 4>but now no one knows or cares where I'm from,

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:50.920
<v Speaker 4>what I do or used to do, where I went

0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:53.480
<v Speaker 4>to school or didn't, what I have or don't have,

0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:56.640
<v Speaker 4>or know, or who I don't know, None of it matters,

0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:00.920
<v Speaker 4>and everything fades away. It made me ask myself, who

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:04.159
<v Speaker 4>am I in every single room I walk into? And

0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 4>I think I was beginning to really reap the benefit

0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:11.040
<v Speaker 4>of that level of introspection. I had begun to be really,

0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:15.720
<v Speaker 4>really thoughtful and reflective about just the value of these

0:25:15.760 --> 0:25:19.919
<v Speaker 4>experiences and how they bullied my spirits and really what

0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:25.080
<v Speaker 4>I learned again about kindness and identity and joy and grief.

0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:30.840
<v Speaker 4>And so it was the most cinematic curtain call of

0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.120
<v Speaker 4>this story when he's singing, stop your crying, baby, It'll

0:25:34.160 --> 0:25:36.320
<v Speaker 4>be all right. And I'm with these strangers that I

0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:39.359
<v Speaker 4>met in a bathroom, you know, like with dancing with

0:25:39.400 --> 0:25:42.880
<v Speaker 4>women from all over the world, as these fireworks are

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:46.600
<v Speaker 4>going off in Wimbley, the most iconic venue in his

0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 4>home country, and it was just this wash.

0:25:49.280 --> 0:25:50.439
<v Speaker 3>Of deep peace.

0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 4>And I write in the book that there's no such

0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:55.920
<v Speaker 4>thing as a grief guillotine.

0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't just end.

0:25:58.040 --> 0:25:59.840
<v Speaker 4>It's not like you turn a light back on in

0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:02.840
<v Speaker 4>life when you're ready to live in color again and

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 4>no longer in black and white. But it's like it's

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:10.440
<v Speaker 4>on a patient dimmer where slowly the lights are coming

0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:15.440
<v Speaker 4>back on, and it marks the pivot from saying I

0:26:15.480 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 4>know I'm going to be okay, or I'm going to

0:26:18.040 --> 0:26:22.919
<v Speaker 4>be okay, and it's such a slight shift into actually

0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 4>I am okay, Yeah, And for me, that moment was

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:27.720
<v Speaker 4>that shift.

0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:32.239
<v Speaker 2>It's time for another short break, but we'll be right

0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:42.200
<v Speaker 2>back to our conversation with sc Proroh, and we're back

0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:43.280
<v Speaker 2>with sc PROO.

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:48.640
<v Speaker 1>As I think about the identity stripping that you mentioned

0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:50.600
<v Speaker 1>and I look back on my own life, I think

0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:53.959
<v Speaker 1>the greatest blessing of aging has been the realization that

0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:58.200
<v Speaker 1>becoming the process of becoming is not about adding. It's

0:26:58.200 --> 0:27:04.120
<v Speaker 1>about subtracting, and it's about liberating yourself from the judgment

0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:09.359
<v Speaker 1>from your own doubts. That's so powerful. It feels like

0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:13.240
<v Speaker 1>in that moment you fully allowed yourself to like reset

0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:15.280
<v Speaker 1>and accept where you were.

0:27:15.080 --> 0:27:19.320
<v Speaker 4>In that moment absolutely, and there was going back to

0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:22.159
<v Speaker 4>this theme of judgment. There was such a point of

0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:26.840
<v Speaker 4>pride for me that I was trusting my instincts. I mean,

0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:30.320
<v Speaker 4>former me would be like, sorry, what are.

0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:31.160
<v Speaker 1>We doing right?

0:27:31.200 --> 0:27:33.639
<v Speaker 3>And I'm like you, no, we're rolling with it.

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:39.560
<v Speaker 4>And again it's it's made me so passionate about joy

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:43.600
<v Speaker 4>in whatever form it shows up in our lives, because

0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:47.639
<v Speaker 4>so often it doesn't. I am now like a fangirl

0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:50.440
<v Speaker 4>for fans, Like if you're a big fan of something,

0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm like I will ride or die for that thing.

0:27:54.640 --> 0:27:55.960
<v Speaker 3>You say, Renaissance fairs.

0:27:56.040 --> 0:27:58.560
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, pass me a turkey, like baby, let's roll

0:27:58.760 --> 0:28:02.600
<v Speaker 4>like I let's go oh, Star Wars, online forums, these

0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 4>things are important, and I'll be I'll be honest. I

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:12.439
<v Speaker 4>used to judge Disney adults. I didn't get it. I'm like,

0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:14.160
<v Speaker 4>where are you going to Disney without kids? I don't

0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 4>get it? And I asked a friend of mine. I said,

0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:21.679
<v Speaker 4>all right, can you explain this Disney adult thing to me?

0:28:21.840 --> 0:28:24.560
<v Speaker 4>And she said, you know, a couple of years ago,

0:28:24.760 --> 0:28:28.880
<v Speaker 4>I lost my dad to cancer, and Disney is where

0:28:28.920 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 4>we have all of our best family memories. And I

0:28:31.880 --> 0:28:34.200
<v Speaker 4>go back to Disney to feel closest to my dad.

0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:38.840
<v Speaker 4>And I'm thinking, so often we judge the what when

0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:42.200
<v Speaker 4>we don't know the why. And we never know what

0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:45.520
<v Speaker 4>difficult walks someone is walking, you know, we never know

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:48.680
<v Speaker 4>the role that music, or a sports team, or a

0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:52.240
<v Speaker 4>certain hobby or passion. We don't know what function that's

0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:55.440
<v Speaker 4>playing in their life. And I just invite a listener

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:59.440
<v Speaker 4>to think about being not only gentler with other people

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:05.040
<v Speaker 4>about passions and hobbies and interests, but also learning how

0:29:05.080 --> 0:29:09.520
<v Speaker 4>to give yourself grace is such an amazing practice as well.

0:29:09.800 --> 0:29:12.400
<v Speaker 4>I so easily could have been like, all right, sc

0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.480
<v Speaker 4>you've lost your damn mind because you have a cardboard

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:17.120
<v Speaker 4>cutout of a pop star in your house.

0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:18.880
<v Speaker 3>You've lost it.

0:29:19.800 --> 0:29:22.320
<v Speaker 4>But you know what, that cardboard cutout of Harry Styles

0:29:22.360 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 4>made me laugh harder for the six months that I

0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:27.760
<v Speaker 4>owned it with my friends. It gave me more joy

0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:31.000
<v Speaker 4>because it was so ridiculous. And if something is not

0:29:31.120 --> 0:29:34.080
<v Speaker 4>harming you or anyone else, I say, let's go.

0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:36.719
<v Speaker 1>I like the idea.

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:44.680
<v Speaker 2>I am curious where you're at with it now in hindsight, Like,

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:47.800
<v Speaker 2>will you be going to more Harry Styles concerts in

0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:48.840
<v Speaker 2>the future.

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:51.960
<v Speaker 3>Yes, one hundred percent.

0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:54.920
<v Speaker 4>There is nothing in life I am looking forward to

0:29:55.320 --> 0:29:58.720
<v Speaker 4>more than Harry's Next to her, I truly cannot wait.

0:29:58.840 --> 0:29:59.320
<v Speaker 1>Amazing.

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:01.600
<v Speaker 3>Asked about what.

0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:02.080
<v Speaker 1>Was it was?

0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:05.520
<v Speaker 4>It came for Harry, stayed for the fans, and you know,

0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:09.800
<v Speaker 4>I want to give Harry's Styles a lot of credit

0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:14.520
<v Speaker 4>for so. I teach in the human and organizational development

0:30:14.560 --> 0:30:17.840
<v Speaker 4>at Vanderbilt University, and if you ask me, what's the

0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:21.600
<v Speaker 4>overlap between what you learned at these Hairy Styles concerts

0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 4>and what you teach your students. Is a concept that

0:30:24.840 --> 0:30:28.640
<v Speaker 4>I would call psychological safety. When people feel safe to

0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:32.920
<v Speaker 4>be themselves. Data shows that the most beautiful things result.

0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:37.680
<v Speaker 4>There's openness, kindness, confidence, and all these things. And it's

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:39.920
<v Speaker 4>something we talk about as a department, is how can

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.320
<v Speaker 4>we make students feel comfortable to share in class, knowing

0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:46.960
<v Speaker 4>their opinions are valuable and so forth. And when I

0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:49.840
<v Speaker 4>heard that phrase when I started teaching at the university,

0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:54.680
<v Speaker 4>I thought, Oh, that's the secret sauce at a hairy

0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:58.640
<v Speaker 4>concert is people feel safe to be creative and zany

0:30:58.680 --> 0:31:02.800
<v Speaker 4>and funny and emotional. People feel free to cry at

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:05.640
<v Speaker 4>the barricade to their favorite song that has moved them

0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:10.160
<v Speaker 4>for who knows what reason. And I think that's really

0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:14.560
<v Speaker 4>really powerful and worth mentioning. Harry Styles says, at every concert,

0:31:15.040 --> 0:31:17.680
<v Speaker 4>I hope you feel you can be in this room

0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:21.760
<v Speaker 4>who you've always wanted to be. What a beautiful invitation

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:24.600
<v Speaker 4>that you can show up and be yourself.

0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, after all that you experienced, does see all the

0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:31.120
<v Speaker 1>changes you made to your life, all the concerts, all

0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:36.520
<v Speaker 1>the bathroom conversations, you created this framework for finding joy.

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:42.920
<v Speaker 1>And the framework is cultivate, adopt, protect, spread. With the

0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:45.800
<v Speaker 1>time that we have left in this conversation, I want

0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:49.280
<v Speaker 1>to focus on adopting. What I love about the way

0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:51.440
<v Speaker 1>that you laid out this framework is that you punctuate

0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 1>each phase with this series of truly magical questions. And

0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:59.280
<v Speaker 1>there's a question that really stuck out to me in

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:03.560
<v Speaker 1>the adopt section, and you said, are you internalizing other victories, joys,

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 1>and wins and allowing them to bring you joy to

0:32:07.640 --> 0:32:12.080
<v Speaker 1>are you making others joy your own in a time

0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:16.479
<v Speaker 1>where some people are finding it hard to cultivate joy.

0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Can you give us a roadmap as to how we

0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:21.480
<v Speaker 1>can adopt the joy of others as our own.

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:25.600
<v Speaker 4>In a season of such significant loss, My spirits were

0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:30.480
<v Speaker 4>so buoyed by watching other people succeed and have fun

0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:33.560
<v Speaker 4>and so forth. And I introduced this idea of joy

0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.480
<v Speaker 4>in the wild and looking for joy in the wild, because,

0:32:36.520 --> 0:32:38.960
<v Speaker 4>like you said, sometimes cultivating joy in your own life

0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:41.680
<v Speaker 4>can feel like a challenge. You know, maybe grief is

0:32:41.680 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 4>your barrier to that, or whatever hardship it may be

0:32:44.880 --> 0:32:49.720
<v Speaker 4>for me. I started looking very closely at the world

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 4>around me in this season of rebuilding, and I found

0:32:53.080 --> 0:32:57.040
<v Speaker 4>that the more keenly observant I was, especially out in public,

0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:00.320
<v Speaker 4>the happier I was so. For example, at these Harry

0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:05.520
<v Speaker 4>Styles concerts, I'm looking at strangers offering to take each

0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:09.880
<v Speaker 4>other's photos. And my favorite example is girls were tying

0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 4>together feather boas to make one giant feather boa and

0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 4>they were using it to jump rope with strangers to

0:33:17.600 --> 0:33:21.360
<v Speaker 4>kill time before a concert started. And I was sitting

0:33:21.360 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 4>there and I was like, there, it is joy in

0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:24.480
<v Speaker 4>the wild.

0:33:25.040 --> 0:33:25.200
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:28.720
<v Speaker 4>The other day I was in Trader Joe's and I

0:33:28.760 --> 0:33:31.840
<v Speaker 4>could tell it was two best friends grocery shopping together,

0:33:32.400 --> 0:33:35.040
<v Speaker 4>and they went aisle by aisle with their carts side

0:33:35.040 --> 0:33:38.200
<v Speaker 4>by side, and they were commentating, have you tried those crackers?

0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:39.040
<v Speaker 3>Have you tried that?

0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Wait?

0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:41.200
<v Speaker 4>This hummus is the best, And didn't. I wasn't trying

0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:42.920
<v Speaker 4>to eavesdrop, but I could tell that, like that's what

0:33:42.960 --> 0:33:45.760
<v Speaker 4>they were doing. And they were laughing, and they were

0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:48.920
<v Speaker 4>like product recommending and they were having the best time.

0:33:49.720 --> 0:33:52.040
<v Speaker 4>They We were kind of on the same schedule, I guess,

0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:53.520
<v Speaker 4>because I saw them in the parking lot.

0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:55.840
<v Speaker 3>Their cars were parked side by side. They gave each

0:33:55.880 --> 0:33:58.480
<v Speaker 3>other the biggest bear hugs after they loaded their cars

0:33:58.480 --> 0:34:01.200
<v Speaker 3>with their respective groceries. And I was sitting there and

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:03.480
<v Speaker 3>I was like, I was having the worst day, and

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.680
<v Speaker 3>I thought to myself, there it is joy in the

0:34:06.680 --> 0:34:11.200
<v Speaker 3>wild A friendship date to Trader Joe's. So again, when

0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:12.080
<v Speaker 3>cultivating joy in.

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:13.840
<v Speaker 4>Your own life feels like a bit of a stretch,

0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:16.359
<v Speaker 4>you know that, And that's something I can relate to.

0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 4>That really was so life giving, and after I've trained

0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.360
<v Speaker 4>my eye to look for it, it's such a contagious

0:34:23.400 --> 0:34:23.919
<v Speaker 4>way to live.

0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:28.160
<v Speaker 1>And that speaks to the power of finding joy in

0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:30.920
<v Speaker 1>the mundane too. Joy doesn't have to look like, you know,

0:34:31.000 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 1>an extravagant trip to Europe to go see a concert

0:34:34.000 --> 0:34:35.960
<v Speaker 1>for people who don't have the means, let's say, but

0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:38.839
<v Speaker 1>it's all around us if we train our to look,

0:34:38.880 --> 0:34:39.759
<v Speaker 1>which is what you're saying.

0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:46.600
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely in the spirit of sharing joy, You've created Joy Hotline,

0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:49.480
<v Speaker 2>which is a place for people to call in and

0:34:49.520 --> 0:34:53.680
<v Speaker 2>share their moments of joy. What are some of the

0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:55.840
<v Speaker 2>great things that people have called in to share?

0:34:57.120 --> 0:34:59.839
<v Speaker 4>I am so glad you asked. I started the Joy

0:35:00.040 --> 0:35:02.320
<v Speaker 4>Hotline this past summer. I was teaching a class for

0:35:02.440 --> 0:35:05.080
<v Speaker 4>Vanderbilt and New York City and I had this idea

0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:08.800
<v Speaker 4>as I was thinking about the big question, what brings

0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:09.480
<v Speaker 4>you joy?

0:35:09.719 --> 0:35:15.600
<v Speaker 3>Why is that simple question so challenging for people to answer.

0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:18.319
<v Speaker 4>I'm so surprised by how often people say, I don't

0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:19.840
<v Speaker 4>know what brings me joy, and I don't know what

0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:22.600
<v Speaker 4>I like anymore. So I thought, you know what, let's

0:35:22.640 --> 0:35:25.560
<v Speaker 4>pull the people. So I made thousands of stickers and

0:35:25.600 --> 0:35:28.040
<v Speaker 4>put them all over New York with the Joy Hotline

0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:30.799
<v Speaker 4>phone number, and it says what brings you joy? And

0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:33.040
<v Speaker 4>I was shocked by how many voicemails I got. I

0:35:33.040 --> 0:35:36.080
<v Speaker 4>thought people would just text it. And one of my favorites,

0:35:36.600 --> 0:35:39.120
<v Speaker 4>this girl, called in and she said, Hey, I just

0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:43.400
<v Speaker 4>found your sticker in Madison Square Park. And what brings

0:35:43.440 --> 0:35:48.240
<v Speaker 4>me joy is Brazilian music and when my mom's really happy.

0:35:48.640 --> 0:35:51.160
<v Speaker 4>I also love that feeling when you're at a party

0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:53.880
<v Speaker 4>and you look around and no one's on their phone

0:35:53.920 --> 0:35:57.800
<v Speaker 4>because people are deeply present. And I also love catching

0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:01.200
<v Speaker 4>up with old friends. And anyway, thank you so much

0:36:01.239 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 4>for giving me a reason to reflect on joy. Thanks

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:05.080
<v Speaker 4>Joy Hotline.

0:36:05.440 --> 0:36:07.319
<v Speaker 3>I mean it just melted me.

0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:12.399
<v Speaker 4>And one of my other favorites someone said this week,

0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:16.680
<v Speaker 4>I trained my dog to smile in this really goofy

0:36:16.760 --> 0:36:20.400
<v Speaker 4>picture of their dog with the cheesiest smile. And one

0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:23.160
<v Speaker 4>of my other favorite voicemails. It was two Vanderbilt girls,

0:36:23.200 --> 0:36:26.920
<v Speaker 4>because the stickers are all over Vanderbilt too, And this

0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:30.879
<v Speaker 4>girl goes, Hey, Joy hotline. What brings me joy is

0:36:31.000 --> 0:36:34.160
<v Speaker 4>walking to Dunkin Donuts with my roommate because I love

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.000
<v Speaker 4>my roommate. And the second girl, the roommate, is also

0:36:37.040 --> 0:36:39.400
<v Speaker 4>on the voicemail and she goes, oh my god.

0:36:39.160 --> 0:36:42.680
<v Speaker 3>That is so nice. I love you too. You bring

0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 3>me so much joy.

0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:46.520
<v Speaker 4>And they proceed to have a conversation about their friendship

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:50.319
<v Speaker 4>on the Joy hotline and I'm just it brings me

0:36:51.040 --> 0:36:53.640
<v Speaker 4>crazy joy when people hit up the Joy hotline.

0:36:53.760 --> 0:36:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, I am certainly feeling less judgmental and a lot

0:36:57.000 --> 0:36:59.920
<v Speaker 1>more joyful. All thanks to USSI, thanks so much for

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:01.360
<v Speaker 1>joining us on the bright side today.

0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:03.959
<v Speaker 3>This was the most fun. Thank you both.

0:37:04.640 --> 0:37:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for your dose of joy.

0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Scproro is a professor at Vanderbilt University and the author

0:37:11.239 --> 0:37:14.600
<v Speaker 1>of Styles of Joy, a feel good framework for rediscovering

0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:15.760
<v Speaker 1>joy with a twist.

0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 2>That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, Kat Kantas is with us.

0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:29.280
<v Speaker 2>She's the co founder of the tequila brand twenty one Seeds,

0:37:29.560 --> 0:37:33.440
<v Speaker 2>and she's going to share some of her incredible entrepreneurial insight.

0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect

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<v Speaker 1>with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram

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<v Speaker 1>and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and

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<v Speaker 1>feel free to tag us at Simone Boyce and at

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<v Speaker 1>Danielle Robe.

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<v Speaker 2>Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,

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<v Speaker 2>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.