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Speaker 1: The US Bishops have a full meeting, and they're getting

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Speaker 1: very political, and why are young people coming back to

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Speaker 1: the faith? And a scandal erupts in New York City

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Speaker 1: The Prayerful Posse. We'll explore it all next Stay there,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to an important Prayerful Posse. Be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: to the show. It's a wonderful way to support our

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Speaker 1: work totally free. Or go to Raymondarroyo dot com. Let's

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Speaker 1: convene the Prayerful Posse. Canon lawyer and Priest of the

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Speaker 1: Archdiocese of New York, Father Gerald Murray, and editor in

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Speaker 1: chief of The Catholic Thing dot org, Robert Royal. The

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Speaker 1: whole Gang's here, gents. Last week we examined the Holy

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Speaker 1: Father urging the bishops to speak with one voice on

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Speaker 1: immigration policy. Well, this week, the United States Bishops at

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Speaker 1: their Fall meeting answered the call never say we aren't pressing.

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Speaker 1: Bishop Mark Say of El Paso, who's the chairman of

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Speaker 1: the Migration Committee, encouraged the bishops to support the migrant

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Speaker 1: community affected by US immigration policy under President Trump. The

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Speaker 1: committee's working on a national initiative titled you Are Not Alone.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's what he said.

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Speaker 3: Since January, The Trump administration has remained committed to carrying

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Speaker 3: out the president's campaign promise of mass deportations. This has

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Speaker 3: been accompanied by policy changes that are intimidating and dehumanizing

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Speaker 3: the immigrants in our midst regardless of how they came

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Speaker 3: to be here. As our late Holy Father Pope Francis

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Speaker 3: so often reminded us, and as Pope Leo has strongly

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Speaker 3: reiterated in these months of his papacy, acts of accompaniment

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Speaker 3: are vitally important and integral to our shared mission of

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Speaker 3: bringing hope and truth to a world desperately in need.

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Speaker 1: Father, what do you make of sites comments there, particularly

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Speaker 1: that that mention of deportations being intimidating and dehumanizing to immigrants.

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Speaker 4: Well, I reject the premise. I do not think it

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Speaker 4: is dehumanizing to enforce law, because you're recognizing that the

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Speaker 4: person who has violated the law is a rational actor

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Speaker 4: who made a decision at one point to enter the

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Speaker 4: country illegally or to overstay a visa, and always doing

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Speaker 4: that with the knowledge that this was something that was illegal.

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Speaker 4: So if the law enforcement agent approaches them, they should

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Speaker 4: admit their fault and then, you know, comply with whatever

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Speaker 4: is required. Self deportation has been offered by this administration

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Speaker 4: to people. Many have taken advantage of it, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I think of the analogy. Let's you know, let's say

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Speaker 4: let's say about three hundred people decided they wanted to

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Speaker 4: live in the USCCB headquarters and brought mattresses and all

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Speaker 4: the rest and their luggage and said we're moving in

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Speaker 4: and we're going to stay here. Would the bishop's conference say, well,

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Speaker 4: we have to let them stay. We can't call the

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Speaker 4: police and a victim because they're coming in here. Legally,

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Speaker 4: they would never allow three hundred people to take up

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Speaker 4: residence in their headquarters. So by analogy, the whole country

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Speaker 4: has a right to a similar policy. Now, legal immigration

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Speaker 4: were the strengths of this country. We all come from

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Speaker 4: immigrant stock in our genealogical background. It's a great thing,

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Speaker 4: but it has to be legal. Illegal immigration is not right, Bob.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, if immigrants or anybody else wanted to

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Speaker 1: occupy the USCCB headquarters, Father, as we learned during their

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Speaker 1: budget discussion at this meeting, half the building is empty

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Speaker 1: and they're looking for four million dollars to make up

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Speaker 1: the difference.

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Speaker 2: So you know, they could charge rent. That's a possibility.

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Speaker 1: But Bob, at the meeting, at the fall meeting, during

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Speaker 1: the presentation of a rather emotional four minute video that

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Speaker 1: Bishop sites played. It featured testimonials by immigrants who felt traumatized,

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Speaker 1: and you know, there were tears and it's very emotional.

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Speaker 1: The same presentation shown to Pope Leo you'll remember several

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Speaker 1: weeks ago that caused him to reportedly be visibly moved,

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Speaker 1: And after playing the video, the bishop had this to say.

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Speaker 3: Allow me to state the obvious. Our immigrant brothers and sisters,

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Speaker 3: from those who are undocumented to those who are naturalized citizens,

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Speaker 3: are living in a deep state of fear. Many are

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Speaker 3: too afraid to work, send their children to school, or

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Speaker 3: avail themselves of the sacraments, and even those who continued

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Speaker 3: to participate in daily life do so with a dark

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Speaker 3: cloud hanging over them.

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Speaker 1: Bob, what do you make of this political and emotional

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Speaker 1: messaging and the lack of distinction between those who are

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Speaker 1: here legally and those who aren't.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think this is rather typical of

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Speaker 5: the bishops and has been for a while. It goes

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Speaker 5: back I think at least ten or fifteen years I

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Speaker 5: was actually invited to speak to a committee of the

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Speaker 5: bishops about ten years ago who were looking to join

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Speaker 5: hands with more traditional Catholics to find out, you know,

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Speaker 5: how can we present our case their case about immigration.

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Speaker 5: And I remember saying to them at the time that

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Speaker 5: you know, you downplay the seriousness of the legal question here.

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Speaker 5: And one bishop, this was an auxiliary bishop from Adiasis

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Speaker 5: that I won't mention, said well, you know, what you're talking.

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Speaker 6: About is like jaywalking.

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Speaker 5: It's not all that serious a business, and so therefore

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Speaker 5: our people are integrating. And I said to him, well,

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Speaker 5: wait a minute, this is a great deal more serious

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Speaker 5: than that. This is this involves now sovereignty, all.

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Speaker 6: Sorts of different questions.

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Speaker 5: It's not just jaywalking. They're all kinds of other elements

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Speaker 5: that are involved here.

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Speaker 6: No, that's said.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes police actions like this are pretty ugly, and when

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Speaker 5: police have to go pick up a criminal somebody has

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Speaker 5: broken the law, it sometimes isn't very nice. And you

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Speaker 5: can put together a bunch of clips to make it

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Speaker 5: clear that that's the case. But just because there are

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Speaker 5: some violations of what should be the proper procedure doesn't

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Speaker 5: discredit the actual fact of what the police are doing

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Speaker 5: or what the Border Patrol does or what.

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Speaker 6: ICE is doing.

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Speaker 5: And you know, I've got to say that the Church

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Speaker 5: in general is behind the curve on this one. That

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Speaker 5: we are not in a world that is going to

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Speaker 5: be a world of open borders. It's created enormous problems

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Speaker 5: that the church is not recognized, but that many people

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Speaker 5: in many countries are.

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Speaker 6: Beginning to recognize. At a political level.

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Speaker 5: I think that they're going to have to come to

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Speaker 5: terms with this very soon, and the sooner the better,

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Speaker 5: because it's not going to be a pretty picture if

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Speaker 5: it goes on the way it's been going.

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Speaker 1: Well, they don't seem to be getting the message at

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Speaker 1: all this new statement. In fact, at Bishop's Supches, Cardinal

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Speaker 1: Supches Urging condemns what he calls indiscriminate deportations, and they

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Speaker 1: added a thing about with no regard for due process. Well,

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Speaker 1: if somebody has an a visa overstay father and is

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Speaker 1: in violation of US code, they can be legally deported.

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Speaker 1: And the one thing you never hear, which I think

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Speaker 1: actually would help the bishop's argument and help them reach

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Speaker 1: more people, is about the criminality and abuse of the

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Speaker 1: American system by these cartels and the utter lack of

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Speaker 1: human dignity that are endured by those who are trafficked here.

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Speaker 4: Now it's correct, I mean, it's as Bob says, this

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Speaker 4: is an emotional presentation and is designed to get people

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Speaker 4: to say, oh, you know, keep the police at home,

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Speaker 4: don't arrest anybody. Can't we all just get along? And

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Speaker 4: the answer is, if you want that policy, convince Congress

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Speaker 4: to repeal all laws regulating entry into the country. And

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Speaker 4: the last election showed that people don't want that. The

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Speaker 4: Bidy administration led an unsupervised inflow of people that cartels

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Speaker 4: took advantage of to traffic people in here for prostitution,

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Speaker 4: drug distribution and other things. We have these gangs from

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Speaker 4: different Latin American countries who came in here to be

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Speaker 4: part of criminal enterprises. This is what happens when you

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Speaker 4: have a system in which the law is ignored, and

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Speaker 4: this is therefore in need. What this is, we would

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Speaker 4: call this a wall street, a correction. Things are getting

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Speaker 4: back to what they're supposed to be. Now it's you know,

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Speaker 4: do we love immigrants illegal and legal. Of course we

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Speaker 4: do the Church. So illegal aliens who are present here

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Speaker 4: have every right to be taken care of by Catholic

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Speaker 4: charities to have pastoral services. I would object if it's

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Speaker 4: true that ICE is not letting priests get into the

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Speaker 4: facilities to hear confessions and say mass and communion. That's

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Speaker 4: all should be regulated. But the idea that someone who

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Speaker 4: violates our law has a right to stay here and

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Speaker 4: not be arrested, that's a revolutionary idea. And if the

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Speaker 4: Catholic Church wants to pursue that, okay, hire the lawyers,

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Speaker 4: station them, you know, at the ICE facilities, and try

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Speaker 4: to get them becore. But these people who have already

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Speaker 4: been had a process which judge that they needed to

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Speaker 4: be evicted. ICE knows who these people are, and they're

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Speaker 4: going after them because they're already in the system. So

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Speaker 4: this is not the way that the Catholic Church should

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Speaker 4: be advocating. They should advocate for greater legal immigration. That's

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Speaker 4: what we need, more people coming in legally.

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Speaker 1: And look, I love that they're saying everyone should be

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Speaker 1: afforded human dignity. Obviously everyone should. That is a wonderful

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Speaker 1: position for the church. I do worry when the church

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Speaker 1: starts leaning though into immigration policy and characterizing in one

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Speaker 1: direction these deportations with no mention of what drove it.

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Speaker 1: I mean President Trump went out and he ran on

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Speaker 1: deporting illegal immigrants and he won.

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Speaker 2: So it isn't like it was a secret.

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Speaker 1: This is what the American people wanted and it comports

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Speaker 1: with American law. Bob, this is from the City Journal.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to read you this full excerpt because it

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Speaker 1: may explain this corporate advocacy we're seeing coming from the

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Speaker 1: Bishop's Conference and as we reported last week, really coming

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Speaker 1: from Rome as well. Total federal grants and contributions made

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Speaker 1: to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops and its affiliate

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Speaker 1: organizations for refugee assistance programs rose from fourteen point six

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Speaker 1: million under the first Trump administration in twenty nineteen to

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty two point six million in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty two, according to audited financial statements. In just three

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Speaker 1: years under Biden, those grants totaled more than two hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars. Signature federal program Preferred Communities tries to integrate

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Speaker 1: immigrants into local communities. In twenty twenty three, the US

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Speaker 1: Conference of Catholic Bishops was the top recipient of those grants,

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Speaker 1: garnering sixty six point five million dollars.

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Speaker 2: Reports opened the books.

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Speaker 1: Over three years, Catholic groups received more than one hundred

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Speaker 1: and ten million from this program alone. Bob Catholic Charities

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Speaker 1: received something like two billion dollars in twenty twenty three

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Speaker 1: in that one year. How much of this immigrant advocacy

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Speaker 1: is driven by the loss of these federal grants, which

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Speaker 1: we have to say floated the USCCB bureaucracy.

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Speaker 5: Well, look, I wouldn't over emphasize this. I mean, it's

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Speaker 5: clear that this plays a role, and there are lots

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Speaker 5: of agencies, of course that that send back information to

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Speaker 5: the Washington headquarters here, and you know, between one thing

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Speaker 5: and another, no doubt it exerts some pressure on the

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Speaker 5: Bishop's Conference as an institute, as a conference. And I

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Speaker 5: would just add though that there really is throughout our bishops.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how deep this runs, but there is

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Speaker 5: a kind of a generalized sense, and I don't know

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Speaker 5: where this comes from, that somehow enforcing immigration law is immoral.

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Speaker 5: You know, we've got a new vice president and vice

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Speaker 5: president of the Bishop's Conference, Bishop especially Cochley is the president,

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Speaker 5: very good man, but he's in favor of accompanying the

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Speaker 5: illegal immigrants. And then Bishop Flores who's now the new

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Speaker 5: vice president, said in twenty seventeen that arresting illegals was

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Speaker 5: a material cooperation in an intrinsic evil. He compared it

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Speaker 5: to driving someone to an abortion clinic for an abortion.

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Speaker 5: Now you know, he's very intell He's a PhD in theology,

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Speaker 5: is a very intelligent man. Somehow, these people, I think,

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Speaker 5: have been mesmerized by this idea of accompanying the stranger,

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Speaker 5: because it is not an evil in say a molement,

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Speaker 5: say that we say in theology abortion is an evil

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Speaker 5: in itself. Arresting somebody who is any illegal immigrant in

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Speaker 5: the United States is not an evil in itself. In fact,

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Speaker 5: it might be a good in itself depending on the circumstances,

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Speaker 5: and people who are carrying that out ice or whatever

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Speaker 5: law enforcement agencies may be actually doing a good thing

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Speaker 5: for the community.

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Speaker 6: So look, this runs deep.

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Speaker 5: It's a combination I suppose of money and I think

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Speaker 5: a distorted view of Catholic morals that have given us

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Speaker 5: this This witch is brew that has to be examined

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Speaker 5: more careful. It needs to be examined here. And I

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Speaker 5: think Roman insta come to terms with this as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well, I mean, look, you're seeing this in

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Speaker 1: Europe too. Europe is saying, wait minute, maybe we allowed

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Speaker 1: too much of this unfedered illegal immigration, and now we're

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Speaker 1: seeing the cultural clash that Benedict the sixteenth warned was

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Speaker 1: upon us and was happening in Europe, and that he

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Speaker 1: was urging. You'll remember back in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven that Europe needed to rediscover its roots,

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Speaker 1: it's Christian roots, and now you see them being imperiled. Father,

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Speaker 1: is it time for the bishops to get out of

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Speaker 1: the relocation business? I mean, for years they've basically been

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Speaker 1: paid by the federal government to relocate illegal and legal

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Speaker 1: immigrants and refugees all across the country.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean this is a dilemma because, I mean,

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Speaker 4: let's look at it from what it is. The Biden

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Speaker 4: administration had a policy of allowing people to enter the

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Speaker 4: country illegally. In other words, they didn't have a visa,

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Speaker 4: but they let them in, and they gave them a

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Speaker 4: document which said you have to appear at immigration court

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Speaker 4: and that could be five to ten years later. So,

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Speaker 4: in other words, it was a day fact waiving the

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Speaker 4: men into the country and granting them a temporary status

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Speaker 4: so once they're in government control, the government decided we're

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Speaker 4: not going to spend money ourselves and build housing and

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Speaker 4: social services and all the it's not going to be

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Speaker 4: a federal responsibility. We're going to point it or pint it.

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Speaker 4: We're going to franchise it out to private groups, including

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Speaker 4: the Catholic Church. No, by the way, why can't they

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Speaker 4: franchise out educational vouchers in the same way. Okay, so

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Speaker 4: American citizens who want to send their kids to non

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Speaker 4: public schools could do that. So it's okay to send

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Speaker 4: illegal aliens to Catholic facilities for resettlement, but it's not

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Speaker 4: okay to use federal dollars to help pay poor kids

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Speaker 4: who want to go to a Catholic school. Not just

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Speaker 4: in the side, but in other words, the Catholic Church

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Speaker 4: is doing a good thing. I'm not going to criticize

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Speaker 4: people who were involved in resettlement services because they were acting,

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Speaker 4: according to the law, for a laudable motive, which is

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Speaker 4: to help people who are poor need adjustment and you know,

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Speaker 4: language and all the rest. But the question for the

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Speaker 4: America con citizens was do we want to keep doing this? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And people said no. That was part of the big

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Speaker 4: part of the election, and I don't think the bishops

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Speaker 4: should turn around till the American people know Trump is wrong.

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Speaker 4: These people have a right to stay and it doesn't

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Speaker 4: matter that they came in illegally. It does matter. If

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Speaker 4: law doesn't matter, then we might as well just basically

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Speaker 4: live in bunkers, because if there's no law, then it's

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Speaker 4: a free for all in society. We don't operate that way.

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Speaker 4: The American people don't want that, The Catholic Church doesn't

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Speaker 4: want that. I mean if somebody like the analogy I

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Speaker 4: said about coming into the headquarters, if people got in

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Speaker 4: there and took up residents, of course the bishops are

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Speaker 4: going to call the police. They're not going to want

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Speaker 4: to go confront who knows who living in their building illegally.

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Speaker 4: So we all live by law. We have to. If

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Speaker 4: you don't like the law, work to change. That's a

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Speaker 4: great thing. In the free society. You don't like laws,

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Speaker 4: elect people to change it. That's how you should operate.

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Speaker 1: But I worry in the effort to a company anyone

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Speaker 1: who wants to come into the country. And Bishop Sites

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Speaker 1: mentioned Afghanis and Nigerians and people from all over the

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Speaker 1: world in an effort to want to accompany them. When

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Speaker 1: do you accompany the American citizens, the people in your pews,

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Speaker 1: and law enforcement who are risking their lives to protect

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Speaker 1: that law and execute it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I'll just jump back in again. The federal

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Speaker 4: government needs to be out of our lives about directing

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Speaker 4: so many things. They shouldn't allow legal aliens in. That's

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Speaker 4: what the Trump administration are doing. We shouldn't get involved

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Speaker 4: in the police actions and try to stop them because

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Speaker 4: they're acting legally. And then why don't we reduce taxes

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Speaker 4: so people can afford to do the things they want to.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's so annoying to see that Catholic schools

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Speaker 4: are closing right and left in this country because of

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Speaker 4: inflation and other associated costs. This isn't how the society

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Speaker 4: should operate. We should favor private initiatives that benefit the citizenry.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as is customary at these annual the fall meeting

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Speaker 1: at least of the USCCB, the papal nuncio, who is

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Speaker 1: the Pope's representative in the United States. He made a

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Speaker 1: statement to the bishops of the us at the start

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Speaker 1: of this gathering, Cardinal Christophe Pierre Bob urged the body

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Speaker 1: to remain faithful to Pope Francis's pastoral path and to

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Speaker 1: the vision of the Second Vatican Council. The Nuncio talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about the late Pope Francis and his vision.

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Speaker 1: Your thoughts, Bob on the heavy focus on the previous pontificate.

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Speaker 1: He also said something about the Vatican Two is the

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Speaker 1: key to any revolution, any updates that will happen in.

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Speaker 2: The future, the path of the Church going forward.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I have to say I was really quite surprised

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Speaker 5: by this discourse that he gave to the bishops, because

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Speaker 5: when you try to understand what somebody is saying, one

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Speaker 5: of the better ways to do that is who do

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Speaker 5: they think their audience is, and what do they think

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Speaker 5: that that audience most.

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Speaker 6: Needs to hear.

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Speaker 5: And so our American bishop, who by and large or

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Speaker 5: Orthodox men, there's still largely in the line of John

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Speaker 5: Paula's second and Benedict, which is why they elected Archbishop Coakley.

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Speaker 5: Clearly he felt they needed to hear that Francis's vision

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Speaker 5: should continue, and no, no doubt he heard.

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Speaker 6: He checked that with Rome, and Rome said, yeah, go

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Speaker 6: ahead with that.

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Speaker 5: But the thing that was even more amazing was the

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Speaker 5: way he kept going back and back to Vatican two,

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Speaker 5: and as if Vatican two had predicted the moment that

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Speaker 5: we're in right now, this change of moment that it

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Speaker 5: anticipated in the rest of the world had not well.

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Speaker 5: In fact, there's been so much debate over what Vatican

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Speaker 5: two meant. This is why they need to keep going

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Speaker 5: back to this idea, the spirit of Vatican two, because

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Speaker 5: the documents don't seem to say what.

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Speaker 6: The spirit allegedly is saying.

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Speaker 5: And what we have right now is something that I

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Speaker 5: think is much different, much different than that that particular

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Speaker 5: reading of Vatican two, going all the.

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Speaker 6: Way back to shortly after it closed.

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Speaker 5: We are really in a different world, but it's not

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Speaker 5: the one that points back to this kind of open

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Speaker 5: world in which we're supposed to build bridges and not fences.

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Speaker 5: I think it's time to start building some fences, and

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Speaker 5: not only in the secular world, but in the church

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Speaker 5: as well. We need to get back to the point

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Speaker 5: where we have a clear definition of what it is

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Speaker 5: to be inside the church and outside the church, what

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Speaker 5: actually belongs to the faith and doesn't.

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Speaker 6: Belong to the faith.

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Speaker 5: Look, it will change things that happen some people will leave,

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Speaker 5: some people will be attracted. But the Church can only

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Speaker 5: continue to exist if it has that sort of clarity

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Speaker 5: about what it is, and what it is cannot simply

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Speaker 5: be a kind of a more pious version of what's

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Speaker 5: going in the secular world.

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Speaker 1: Bob, Wow, it's time for the church to build fences.

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Speaker 1: Bob Royle, I'm putting that on my Bumpersire Father, that's.

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Speaker 6: A patent to saying for Noah.

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Speaker 2: It's a great line.

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Speaker 1: But Father does speak to this confusion. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why they keep talking about the spirit of

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Speaker 1: Vatican two. Since Vatikan two, we have less people in

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Speaker 1: the pews, less people ordain, less people baptized, less people

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Speaker 1: were returning to the sacraments, and as Bob referenced, a

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Speaker 1: general confusion about the essences and foundational beliefs of the faith.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know that confusion is why Saint John Paul

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Speaker 4: the second issue the Catechism of the Catholic Church. So

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Speaker 4: if you know the Nuncio wants to people go back

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Speaker 4: to Vatican two and understand it in the contemporary scene. Well,

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Speaker 4: John Paul the second was that Vatican two he said,

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Speaker 4: we need a catechism. The bishops of the world. The

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Speaker 4: greed he issued. The Categins is one of the most

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Speaker 4: important documents that was issued in the post Concilier period.

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Speaker 4: And what was it. It's exactly what Bob was saying.

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Speaker 4: It was establishing this is what we believe, this is

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Speaker 4: what we don't believe. This is why we believe it,

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Speaker 4: this is why we don't believe these other things. I

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Speaker 4: was distressed because to identify Poe frien Ansis's policies with

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Speaker 4: Vatican two forgets that, in fact Pop Francis contradicted Vatican

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Speaker 4: two in a few things. Their Senate of Bishops was

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Speaker 4: established by the Second Vatican Council. It never said that

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Speaker 4: lay people should be added as voting members. That's what

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Speaker 4: Pope Francis did. VATICANU never said you should bless same

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Speaker 4: sex couples, which is what Post Francis did. Vadigan who

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Speaker 4: never said that people divorced and remarried to receive Holy communion,

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Speaker 4: That's what Pop Francis did. Vadigan TU never said that

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Speaker 4: God willed all religions, That's what Pop Francis signed a

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Speaker 4: document stating it, and then he said later he meant

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Speaker 4: God's passive will, but still he's identifying the will of

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Speaker 4: God with the existence of non Christian religions. We believe

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Speaker 4: that Jesus Christ fulfilled the promise made to Israel and

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Speaker 4: that there's one faith based precisely on the revelation God

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Speaker 4: made through Christ. We don't accept Buddhism and other religions

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Speaker 4: as being alternate, valuable ways that God wants people to act. No,

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Speaker 4: God wants people to be burt convert to come to

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Speaker 4: the Catholic religion. So yeah, I think that what the

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Speaker 4: Nunzia was trying to say is and I'm sure this

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Speaker 4: was of course approved by the Roman authorities, which is

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Speaker 4: the American hierarchy has not shown enough enthusiasm for the

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Speaker 4: heritage of Pope Francis. They better get in line because

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Speaker 4: otherwise we're going to accuse them of being unfaithful to

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Speaker 4: the Second Vatican Council, to which I would say, ex eminence.

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Speaker 4: Here's Academy of Catholic Church. Show me where the things

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Speaker 4: that Pope France has innovated are in that book, because

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Speaker 4: they're not.

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Speaker 1: M Wow, We're going to move on because this is

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Speaker 1: something we've been covering for weeks and it speaks to

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Speaker 1: this this battle over the traditional liturgy and even traditional

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Speaker 1: practices across the United States. The Diocese of Charlotte once again,

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Speaker 1: Bishop Michael Martin announced he will ban the use of

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Speaker 1: all altar rails for the reception of Holy Communion in

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Speaker 1: his diocese beginning the first Sunday of Advent. Father, I'll

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Speaker 1: start with you on this again. Can a bishop do

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Speaker 1: this canonically? I thought the faithful couldn't be kept from

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Speaker 1: kneeling if they wish to receive that way.

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Speaker 4: Well, a couple of precisions. First is, we don't know

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Speaker 4: about this because one of the pastors made an announcement

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Speaker 4: about this decree. Company the decree has not been published,

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Speaker 4: so the canon laura I say, I won't comment on

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Speaker 4: a diosin legislation unless I read it. But let's presume

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Speaker 4: that it's accurate. The bishop is not forbidding people to

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Speaker 4: kneel for communion. He's simply not allowing them to have

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Speaker 4: something to kneel down at an ultra rail or a predieu.

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Speaker 4: It is you could say, I think you make canonical case.

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Speaker 4: The bishop has the right as the local ordinary to

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Speaker 4: regulate the arrangement of his churches. In other words, the

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Speaker 4: liturgical appointments he has a right to do it, but

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Speaker 4: that right is also can be contested once the decree

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Speaker 4: is issued by late people saying you're depriving us of

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Speaker 4: the right to receive union kneeling in a way that

434
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 4: is convenient for us. I mean, think about an eighty

435
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 4: year old grandma who wants to receive communion kneeling, And

436
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 4: now you're telling you we're gonna the altra rail can't

437
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 4: be used, so we're going to go in the middle

438
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 4: aisle and you got to kneel down on the ground,

439
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 4: find your way to the floor. Granted, what kind of

440
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 4: charity is that? And I think it's it's certainly not

441
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,920
Speaker 4: the mind of the legislator. Now let's get back also

442
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,360
Speaker 4: to reality. Has any pope ever said that altar rails

443
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 4: are a bad thing and need to be removed? Never heard?

444
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 4: My goodness is so incredible.

445
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: Why are we wasting time with this stuff? Okay?

446
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: Why are they wasting time with the ink to write

447
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: this kind of mandate and directive?

448
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: It makes no sense to me. Bob.

449
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, in an almost comical counter story, okay, in Germany,

450
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: a priest conducted a Halloween service dressed in a Dracula costume.

451
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: Complete with artificial fog, and he emerged from a coffin.

452
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: Very is, Bob, why are these bishops so worried about

453
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: tradition and grandma and twenty and eighteen year old kids

454
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: kneeling when this nonsense is going on.

455
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 5: It's because they need to build more walls, which I

456
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 5: forgat you know, you alter rail, it's kind of a wall,

457
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 5: you know, actually on that one, just to start there

458
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 5: for a second, this really is an attempt to erase

459
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 5: the difference between the profane and the set and the sacred,

460
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 5: you know, I mean there's always been a kind of

461
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 5: a sacred space in the ancient temple in Israel and

462
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 5: most religions.

463
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 6: And this really I see this.

464
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 5: We've talked about this before, but I really see this

465
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 5: as like this an attempt to make us the mass

466
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 5: is just kind of all of us getting together and

467
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 5: you know, having a nice time together. I Mean, one

468
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 5: of the things people try to do is to go

469
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 5: back and figure out what was the original last separate, like, well,

470
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 5: whatever it was that the apostles weren't standing line and

471
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 5: you know, receiving community. We know we can say that

472
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 5: for sure, but look, these two things are related. You're

473
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 5: quite right, because in one way we're breaking down the

474
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 5: idea of the sacred some sacred space and some you know,

475
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 5: in some of the legitimate Catholic rights, like in the

476
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 5: Eastern Byzantine rights, there actually is a screen, right, an

477
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 5: i kinographic screen between you know, the the altar and

478
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 5: the and the people. And I think that it's one

479
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 5: thing for a bishop and go out on a limb

480
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 5: like this. I really wish our bishops would get together

481
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 5: about it. It's not a good thing for a bishop's

482
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 5: conference to have to decide things like this, but certainly

483
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 5: in the United States we should have some kind of

484
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 5: uniform acceptance of maybe a couple of different things that

485
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 5: you can do. But a guy popping out of a coffin,

486
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 5: I think if I were the bishop of that diocese,

487
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 5: I would have had, you know, some medics right after that,

488
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 5: right to pick him up and take him to some

489
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 5: place and get him some help, because I mean, what

490
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 5: the world is? How does this happen? And the one

491
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 5: Holy Roman Catholic and Apostology.

492
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: Did you see those pictures father of the guy in

493
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: the drag kalla get up?

494
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 4: Yeah? I did. And for me, this is a symbol

495
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 4: of what the Catholic Church has done in Germany, which

496
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 4: is they've rejected revealed religion and entered the popularity contest

497
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 4: to get views on the internet. This is like the

498
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 4: priest I saw recently who dressed up in a rapper's outfit,

499
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 4: you know, with the heavy gold fake gold chain and

500
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 4: the hat and the glasses, and he was rapping during Mass.

501
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 4: In other words, you know, rhymed poetry.

502
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: Steelenloudnsa pete fakundat allen.

503
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 4: This is absurd this and you know what it reveals

504
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 4: to is a theological poverty that the act of worship

505
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,239
Speaker 4: is essentially an entertainment forum. And people no longer liked

506
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: the old entertainment we gave them when we had mass,

507
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: so now we're going to do it, was gonna substitute

508
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 4: it with other things. And you just say to yourself, Father,

509
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 4: did Jesus Christ come down into the world so that

510
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 4: his priests would be a B level version of Dracula movies?

511
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: Of course not. This is absurd. This is this is sad,

512
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 4: and it's just the spiritual rot in Germany is so

513
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 4: deep when these kind of things happen. And then you know,

514
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 4: Bob says, the guys needs needs a medic. Maybe he does,

515
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 4: or maybe he simply needs a b issue who says, no,

516
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 4: we're here to promote religion, not entertainment.

517
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, or in Exorcist, Oh yeah, well maybe that too.

518
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: And father, don't don't insult Dracula movies. You know, I

519
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: had Bela Lugosi's granddaughter on a few weeks ago. Bela

520
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: Lugosi was a faithful Catholic who served Blessed Karl during

521
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: the war at Mass. So you know, sometimes Dracula is

522
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: more than some of these people.

523
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 4: Hold on, Raymond, I love Dracula movies. I love Frankenstein,

524
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 4: you know. But the thing is.

525
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: That, but that's not what church is all about, right,

526
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: you know what I'm offering the sacraments.

527
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 2: I agree.

528
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: Okay, some possible good news, Bob, you flagged this force.

529
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: Pope Lio has announced a special consistory of cardinals at

530
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: the top of January. We don't have details on why

531
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: they're meeting. But first of all, Bob, what is a

532
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: consistory of cardinals? A lot of people here that term.

533
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: They don't know what you're talking about. And why is

534
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,239
Speaker 1: this different from Pope Francis.

535
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, broadly speaking, a consistory the cardinals who

536
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 5: were kind of advisors to the Holy Father at least

537
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 5: in theory ideally, you know, they come together in Rome.

538
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 5: He gathers them together in Rome and they get to

539
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 5: sit down and talk through some questions with one another.

540
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 5: It was a strange thing about the papacy of Pope

541
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 5: Francis that he after the first I think it was

542
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 5: only a first consistory that he had where Cardinal Casper

543
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 5: spoke about what became kind of the amorous Laticia line

544
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 5: of some people being able to receive Holy Communion who

545
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 5: were divorced without having an annulment. And I think after

546
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 5: the disappointment that the cardinals didn't get together behind Cardinal

547
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 5: Casper and along with Poe Francis, but Francis didn't really

548
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 5: convene consistency consistories like that again, right, and the criticism

549
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 5: was often made and we made it, the three of

550
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 5: us made it many times. Is that what that did

551
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 5: is that the cardinals didn't.

552
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 6: Really know one another.

553
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 5: They didn't get a chance as a body to advise

554
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 5: the pope very much. And so this is a departure.

555
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 5: As much as Leo has talked about wanting to follow

556
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 5: in the line of Poe Francis one of his first

557
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 5: official acts. And this year, you know, as we said,

558
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 5: this is a jubilee year, so his schedule is choc

559
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 5: a block with one event after another after another that's

560
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 5: been scheduled for years. And so in the first week

561
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 5: after the Jubilee year ends, he's got scheduled to try

562
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 5: to get all the cardinals as many as possible or

563
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 5: from around the world to Rome with him to talk

564
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 5: about what we don't know, as you rightly say, but

565
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 5: already just to bring them together and to consult with him.

566
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 5: That's kind of a sonotyl church that I could applaud.

567
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 2: Father.

568
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: This is it is interesting my thought when I read

569
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: it and read the several reports where this is covered,

570
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: it did seem to me this may be the actual

571
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: beginning of Pope Leo's reign, where he begins to for

572
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: the first time sort of be his own man, without

573
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: the specter of Pope Francis that has really covered him

574
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: throughout this Jubilee year that, as Bob said, was already

575
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: largely set in motion. The man is kind of walking

576
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: through the steps that we might have seen Pope Francis

577
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: walk through.

578
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 4: Well, we'll find out. You know, I can say that

579
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 4: he didn't observe Pope Francis's dress, manner of dressing his

580
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 4: you know his he's used. He's done a lot more

581
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 4: of the formalities of John Paul the second in Benedict,

582
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 4: so he can declare himself when he wants. He's also

583
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: taken days off with Leo. Pope Ranis never did. Now

584
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: just a little. The Pope Francis had a couple more

585
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 4: consistories and the last one though, no, you aren't allowed

586
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 4: to approach the mic and speak on your own. You

587
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 4: have to be called, and you have to submit your

588
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 4: comments ahead of time and all. It was very controlled.

589
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 4: In fact, it was it was stage managed, so to say.

590
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,479
Speaker 4: So my first thing is to find out will the

591
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 4: Cardinals get an open mic and more than two minutes

592
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 4: to speak? If they're giving five minutes to speak, then

593
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 4: we're going to have some serious conversation, you know. I mean,

594
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 4: if you can do a podcast for forty minutes with

595
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 4: three guys, why can't Why can't think the Cardinals do

596
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 4: something similar, you know, designate someone to represent different groups

597
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 4: from different languages or people whatever. But the real thing

598
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 4: for me is going to be, is this going to

599
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 4: be a rah rah session to say everything, Pope Francis,

600
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 4: did we have to endorse or will this be a truly,

601
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 4: you know, candid and realistic assessment of where the Catholic

602
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 4: Church is today, because we have open rep rebellion in

603
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 4: the Catholic Church, particularly on moral and doctrinal questions that

604
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 4: cannot be allowed to go unaddressed because if they if

605
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 4: they're not addressed, we're gonna have more chaos. And this

606
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,560
Speaker 4: is particularly in matters of sexuality, the ordination of women,

607
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 4: and then the whole question of do lay people share

608
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 4: in governance in the church, which is now you know,

609
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 4: we have women and lay people being given roles in

610
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 4: the Roman Cury which never were given before. And this

611
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 4: is all part of Pot Francis's vision of accompaniment, which

612
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 4: means everybody has a say in how the church is governed.

613
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 4: That has to be addressed.

614
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: Okay, for the record, Bob Royle, it's time to build walls.

615
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: Father Gerald Murray, open, Mike Knight for the cardinals.

616
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 2: I got it.

617
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna write the I'm creating these bumper stickers.

618
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna sell them everywhere, Okay.

619
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: In perhaps another sign of hope, Millennials and gen Zers,

620
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,839
Speaker 1: we learn, are now more likely to attend church than

621
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: their parents, acording to new research released by BARNA the

622
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: Barner Group. These findings show a marked reversal of decades

623
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: long trends that where we saw younger folks leaving church

624
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: attendants behind, Millennials and members of Gen Z have now

625
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: overtaken boomers and elders as the most frequent churchgoers. According

626
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 1: to Berna's stats, the average Gen Z Christian now attends

627
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: services one point nine weekends per month, Millennials one point

628
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 1: eight times, a steady increase for both groups since the pandemic. Father,

629
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: why are we seeing this, what is driving it?

630
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: And are you seeing this in your own parish?

631
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 4: Well, when I see these statistics, I do wonder, because yes,

632
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 4: I do see young people coming to church, but not

633
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 4: in the numbers I remember when I was a kid

634
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 4: back in the nineteen sixties and seventies. So you know,

635
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 4: just the attendant statistics are taken every year in all

636
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: the dioceses of the country, so we know who's going

637
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 4: to church who isn't. Now the surveys I won't. I

638
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: haven't done this, you know, study about their methodology, but

639
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 4: I will say this as the Charlie Kirk murder and

640
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 4: subsequent things have revealed, young people are hungry for truth

641
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 4: and authenticity. They're tired of the fake woke movement in

642
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 4: this country. They're tired of, you know, the religion of

643
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 4: balloons and cake. They want something that's going to address

644
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 4: questions of sin, salvation, how do I live a happy life?

645
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 4: So I'm not surprised that that's happening. But you know

646
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 4: the question is are we offering the authentic Catholic version

647
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 4: of life to them or are they going to be

648
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 4: simply going along and saying, you know, don't worry of

649
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 4: what you're doing in life. You know God's and God's

650
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 4: the God of accompaniment. The word is conversion. The word

651
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 4: is adhesion or coherence. That's what we need to teach,

652
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 4: not walk with us and will smile at each other. Yeah, Bob.

653
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: Any thing to add there about why these young people

654
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: are coming forward and what they're seeking.

655
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's probably several different things. I wouldn't

656
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 5: I wouldn't put too much energy behind this thinking that

657
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 5: we've got a sea change coming. Maybe we do, and

658
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 5: I hope we do, but these things kind of go cyclical.

659
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 6: I know we all remember it.

660
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 5: Back in the nineteen eighties, there was a Catholic moment,

661
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 5: according to our friend Richard House, and there was there

662
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 5: was there was a bump up in Catholicism at the time,

663
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 5: and then it kind of faded away in the nineties

664
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 5: and the two thousands.

665
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 6: I mean, these are good signs. Father.

666
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 5: I think is exactly right that the deepest motivation probably

667
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 5: is these are kids who are not haven't there's nothing

668
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 5: even for them to rebel against. They haven't even seen

669
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 5: a church that's a substantial church, and so when they

670
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 5: do come in contact with it, and it's something different

671
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 5: from the lack of substance that exists in the society

672
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,840
Speaker 5: as a whole. I mean, I look back at Jordan Peterson.

673
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 5: Why was Jordan Peterson, you know, so so effective. I

674
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 5: mean he's brilliant. Obviously he knew how to speak to

675
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 5: young people. But it wasn't only that he presented them

676
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 5: with something solid. You know, get up in the morning,

677
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 5: put your shoulders back, don't slatch you around, shake hands

678
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 5: with people, look them in the I mean, you know,

679
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 5: engage the world, be a human being in the well.

680
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: This is what we've talked about for years and it's

681
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 2: a pity. And look, I talk. I travel a lot.

682
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: I was just in Nashville, I was just in Texas,

683
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: I was just out in California. When you see the

684
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: young people pouring and packing into these churches, they're going

685
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: to traditional services. They're looking for traditional, solid structure.

686
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: Bob. That's what Jordan Peterson gave them, structure.

687
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: And I hate to say it, this is the rigidity

688
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: that Pope Francis tried to drive out of Catholic worship.

689
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: This is exactly what the young people are looking for.

690
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 2: They're looking for.

691
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: Something solid and a form and a structure in a

692
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: world of chaos and fluidity. And I don't know why

693
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: we're removing the foundations and the structure that the biggest

694
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: possible group of new Catholics are seriously craving.

695
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 2: Father.

696
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I would add on this too.

697
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 5: We've had a lot of new initiatives in the church,

698
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 5: especially here in the United States, you know, eucharistic congresses,

699
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 5: all sorts of things that have been developing. I talked

700
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 5: to young people who are on secular campuses where their

701
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,359
Speaker 5: campus ministries are really really right good. You know, this

702
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 5: is something different than existed in the past. So look

703
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 5: wherever we are, we build up this little bit and

704
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 5: you know, next thing, you know, all of a sudden

705
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 5: there's a wave of kind of conversions, of a wave

706
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 5: of young people coming into the church. I mean, we

707
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 5: should never despair of the power of the Holy Spirit.

708
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 5: When the Holy Spirit is allowed to be presented to

709
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 5: people like this. They're hungry for something, and we might

710
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 5: as well give them the best thing of all, which

711
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 5: is the Eucharist and the faith that will not only

712
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 5: help them in this life, but in eternity.

713
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 2: Father, you want to add any last one.

714
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 4: Well, I live in the land of mayor elect Ma'm

715
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,359
Speaker 4: Danny Okay, who was elected by the younger generation and

716
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 4: the combination of other factors including South Asian voters and

717
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: the like. But I think we're seeing, you know, we're

718
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 4: seeing a different split in the country, which is where

719
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 4: where there's less influence of elite institutions such as Ivy

720
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 4: League schools and the federal government. Uh, there's much more

721
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 4: open spirit. I mean, I Texas a and m I

722
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 4: hear one of the best Catholic centers from the whole country,

723
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: and they have lots and lots of kids going there.

724
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 4: I think that's where the spirit of religion is appreciated

725
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 4: and taken for, you know, in the right sense. But look,

726
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: God is good. It only takes a couple of saints

727
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 4: to revolutionize a diocese or a country. I mean, Saint

728
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: Charles Borromeo is still talked about in Milan, you know,

729
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 4: five centuries later, because he was a holy bishop. And

730
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 4: you know, we have the same thing in our country

731
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 4: that we have people who are great. Mother Teresa Calcutt

732
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 4: is probably the only woman that every single American could

733
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 4: recognize who she is if you said it. And she

734
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 4: was a Catholic noun who take care of port people

735
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 4: in far distrom India. So I don't know, God acts

736
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,479
Speaker 4: in ways that are mysterious, thank God, because we mess

737
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 4: it up all the time.

738
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: Well, and the Mandani, the wave you've seen in New York,

739
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to argue, Father, hold me to this in

740
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: a few years. That will create a cauldron of confusion

741
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: and misery that's going to drive people into your parish

742
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: and others like it.

743
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: Watch just watch it, inevited.

744
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 1: When there's chaos and confusion, the church thrives and persecution

745
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: and you might get all.

746
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 2: Of that in New York City.

747
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: I hate to say, Father, I need you both to

748
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 1: weigh in on this. This week and openly gay TV

749
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: anchor is returning to the church after twenty five years.

750
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: He credits Pope Francis's legacy of inclusion and the outreach

751
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: of Jesuit Father James Martin for his return. This is

752
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: thirty eight year old Geo Benitez, known from ABC's Good

753
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: Morning America program, who's openly gay. He's married to a man,

754
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: received the sacrament of confirmation at Manhattan's Church of Saint

755
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: Paul the Apostle, which is well known for its LGBTQ ministry.

756
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: Father, your thoughts on this?

757
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: What does canon law say about the reception of the

758
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 1: sacraments in a case like this?

759
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 4: No, this is a scandalous event that should never have happened.

760
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 4: Mister Geo Benitez is in a so called same sex marriage,

761
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 4: which means he either went to a religion that agrees

762
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 4: with that a Protestant church, or to a civil ceremony,

763
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 4: and is now claiming that he's married to a man. Okay,

764
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 4: that is an open rejection of Catholic doctrine about the

765
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 4: nature of marriage. If he sincerely thinks he has a husband.

766
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 4: Then he is rebelling against the very faith he now

767
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 4: claims he's returning to. In addition, the same sex couple

768
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 4: engages in sexual activity, that's the purpose of having that

769
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 4: same sex relationship. The Church does not bless sodomy. This

770
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 4: is quite clear. This is why Pot Francis's activity and

771
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 4: saying you can bless same sex couples with so scandalous

772
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 4: and wrong. It needs to be stopped. Now we're having

773
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 4: a situation in which priests such as Father Martin and

774
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 4: the priests at that parish are saying, well, Post Francis said,

775
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 4: we can bless couples, and you know, we have an

776
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 4: inclusive view. The inclusive view is amnesia about what Jesus taught.

777
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 4: You know, Jesus did not endorse sodomy. It's condemned in

778
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 4: the Bible, it's condemned in natural law. So someone who

779
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 4: is publicly identifying themselves as engaging in that behavior and

780
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 4: pretends he's married to a man, he cannot be confirmed

781
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 4: in the Catholic Church because he is basically what we

782
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 4: would say in canon law, publicly defiant against the faith.

783
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 4: So this is a scandal. This is very, very wrong.

784
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: Bob Bishop Joseph Strickland, who is a bishop emeritus, was

785
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: at the bishop's conference this week. He got up in

786
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: the middle of the conference and said, so long as

787
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: we're talking about doctrine, I think we as a body

788
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: need to talk about this event that took place in

789
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: New York, the one we just described. And you know,

790
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 1: he thought it was scandalous. The bishops just ignored him.

791
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: They just went on, thank you, Bishop, and moved on

792
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: and continued with business.

793
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 2: Your reaction to that and this story.

794
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 5: Poor Bishop Strickland, I mean, he was brave enough to

795
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 5: stand up. I mean he obviously it's pursuona on grata

796
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,400
Speaker 5: in several quarters.

797
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 6: But look at what this is the bishops.

798
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 5: I think a large number of our bishops in the

799
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 5: United States, for all the problems that we know exists

800
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 5: in the church, probably agreed with him. They aren't willing

801
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,840
Speaker 5: to stand up in public and say that they're supportive

802
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 5: of him.

803
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 6: And why well, they would have to cross.

804
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,479
Speaker 5: Swords with the Jesuits who have a over James Martin,

805
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 5: who is a Jesuit priest. They would also have to

806
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:08,760
Speaker 5: implicitly be looking to Pope Leo, who met with Father

807
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,279
Speaker 5: Martin shortly after he was elected, and according to Father

808
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 5: Martin said, you know, keep doing what you're doing.

809
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 6: And what he's doing is creating confusion like.

810
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 5: This, and you know, these are Salami tactics. Every time

811
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 5: there's a story like this that appears, it makes it

812
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,840
Speaker 5: look one more time like the church is moving in

813
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 5: the direction of accepting homosexual activity, even though the highest

814
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 5: authorities say, oh, no, no, no, that's not what we're doing.

815
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 5: We're just accompanying people. You know, we're not blessing couples,

816
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 5: We're blessing individuals. Look, the world is understanding what the

817
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,919
Speaker 5: message is here. And I don't know how much longer

818
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 5: we do this can go on. At some point there's

819
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 5: going to be an explosion. It will not get better.

820
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 5: Ignoring it will not make it go away, and ignoring

821
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 5: it will only make it turn it into a more

822
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 5: and more difficult decision to make when it comes to

823
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,320
Speaker 5: a crisis point. And shame on our bishops. Shame on

824
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 5: our bishops. They should do something, perhaps not even as

825
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 5: a group, but they certainly were willing to stand up

826
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 5: when when Cardinal Superch was willing to give an award

827
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 5: to Senator Durbin in Illinois for his pro immigration work.

828
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 5: We need some kind of activity on the part of

829
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 5: our bishops, public activity to say no, this sort of

830
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 5: thing cannot take place. This is not even this is

831
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 5: not even something that Fiducia Suplicans says is okay. It

832
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 5: actually violates what we're told Fiducia Suplicans allows. So it's

833
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 5: not only scandalous to me, this is a further step

834
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 5: into a realm that is going to destroy whatever remains of.

835
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 6: The Church's teaching about LGBT.

836
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: We've been hearing a lot about anti Semitism in the

837
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: news of late given the controversy over Israel's war against

838
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: Thomas Tucker Carlson featuring Nick Fuinte on his show, and

839
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: the sixtieth anniversary of the landmark Vatican two document Nostra Atate.

840
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,879
Speaker 1: There was a Benedictine College history professor, Richard Crane, who

841
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: said the following.

842
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,359
Speaker 2: He said, it is a disturbing time.

843
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: To live in, not just because of the resurgence of

844
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: anti Semitism, but the extent to which this is poisoned

845
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: at least elements of the Catholic faithful. Father your thoughts

846
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 1: on this alleged resurgence of anti Semitism, particularly in Catholic circles.

847
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 4: Do you see this after the Nazi killing of seven

848
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 4: million Jews. If we in the West are not conscious

849
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 4: of the fact that there are people who want to

850
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 4: do that again, then we are amnesiacs and moral cowards.

851
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 4: We have to confront the group of people who hate

852
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 4: Jews want to wipe Israel off the map. And now

853
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 4: we have the Islamic fanatics who join with the traditional

854
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 4: anti Semites and blame everything on the Jews. You know, no,

855
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 4: I look, I think in the fact most Catholics are

856
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 4: not anti Semitic. I think Nick Frents is kind of

857
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 4: a nut on the on the fringe, and I hope

858
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 4: he changes his mind, but we should have nothing to do.

859
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 4: The insinuation is also the conservative move in the United

860
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 4: States has always been anti Semitic. It's not only coming

861
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 4: to the surface. I reject that completely, and I don't

862
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 4: think that Tucker Carlson did a good thing and others

863
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 4: trying to defend him this. Nick fwent As is a

864
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 4: Nazi fanatical apologist. I don't accept that kind of person

865
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 4: in any civil discourse.

866
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: Bob is a journalist and a writer and thinker on

867
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: this scene for a long time, your thoughts on the

868
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: conflagration of hostility or upsetment over Israel's foreign policy decisions

869
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: with anti Semitism, we are seeing kind of a melding here.

870
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a strange thing.

871
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 5: As many people have said that once you put the

872
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 5: two words together, the Jews, they're already in dangerous territory,

873
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 5: as if every Jew is the same and it's all

874
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 5: an international conspiracy or whatnot. Look, it's possible to criticize

875
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 5: what Israel jating Gaza. I myself think that they have

876
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 5: a right to defend themselves, and I myself feel that

877
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 5: although I'm a supporter of Israel, that they may have

878
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 5: gone too far in certain ways. But it's not my decision.

879
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 5: They know the threat that they're facing there. But the

880
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 5: way that this demonic, slithering anti Semitism has just come

881
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 5: out of the sewer and hooked itself onto this debate

882
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 5: about Israel, to me is something diabolical. I mean, we

883
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 5: have to begin from the point that we have as Catholics,

884
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 5: we have an unshakable connection to Israel, the true Israel,

885
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 5: because the true Israel.

886
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 6: Is what gave us Jesus.

887
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 5: Jesus is the fulfillment of the promises to Israel, as

888
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 5: Father said earlier in this show, and that we can't

889
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 5: cannot be an anti semit As. I think it was

890
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 5: Paul six said spiritually, we are all semis We are

891
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 5: all part of that religion that began with Abraham and

892
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 5: that continued through the Jewish people and now is embodied

893
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 5: in the Church itself. The Church has become a kind

894
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 5: of a fulfillment of the Jewish people. And so the

895
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 5: way that this hooks onto Conservatism is very, very strange.

896
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 5: I mean, we all recalled. It was Bill Buckley, the

897
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 5: editor of National Review, who back in the nineteen fifties

898
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 5: and sixties when some of this started to emerge, made

899
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 5: very clear, as a Catholic and as a conservative in

900
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 5: America that this was not going to be part of

901
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 5: the respectable right in the United States. And somehow it

902
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 5: keeps coming back and coming back, and I think it's

903
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 5: because it has an evil spiritual origin. We must stop it.

904
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 5: And I don't know what motivated Tucker Carlson to give

905
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 5: a platform to this young man who is so deeply,

906
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 5: deeply disturbed and speaking evil.

907
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: I got to end with this. Father.

908
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: The Church's highest trial court, the Roman Rota, has ruled

909
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,759
Speaker 1: in favor of an American priest who sued over the

910
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: release of his name in a so called credibly accused

911
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: clergy list. In a November ninth article in La Republica,

912
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: an unnamed pre successfully brought a claim for defamation before

913
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: the Rohoters Tribunal under the norms of Canon two twenty

914
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: of the Code of Canon Law, which forbids quote the

915
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 1: illegitimate harm of a person's good reputation? Father, what are

916
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: those canons explicitly say? What's meant by illegitimate harm?

917
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, this is a debated point in canon law,

918
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 4: because priests who are accused of a crime have a

919
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 4: right to self defense. They have a right that their

920
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:56,279
Speaker 4: good name not be impugned, meaning that the fact that

921
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 4: the accusation has been given means that they are treated

922
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 4: by the church as if they're guilty. But is an

923
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 4: indictment in a civil court or a criminal court. Is

924
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 4: an indictment a harm to someone's reputation? You could say,

925
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 4: in one sense, maybe, but the whole legal system depends

926
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 4: on the fact that we are now going to submit

927
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 4: that person to a process in which he's given every

928
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 4: opportunity to defend his name and he doesn't have to

929
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 4: prove his innocence, you know, the state has to prove

930
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 4: his guilt. So in the Catholic Church they had to say,

931
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 4: rather than conduct trials so that people's names can people

932
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 4: can be cleared of acute accusations, they simply say, well,

933
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 4: this man has been accused, and we're going to put

934
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 4: the name out there. This has to often do with

935
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 4: people who are dead, in other words, accusation against dead priests,

936
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 4: and then they put them out there. Now it's a

937
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 4: difficult question because for me, if someone's indicted, that's not

938
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 4: a harm to their reputation. That's if you want to

939
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 4: live in a free system with a legal system, you

940
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 4: have to submit to its claims. If you don't like it,

941
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 4: get out of the country. But you're never going to

942
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 4: find a better system, in my view, to combine the

943
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 4: rights of people to be considered innocent and the rights

944
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 4: of victims and the state to prosecute criminals and people

945
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,360
Speaker 4: cause harm. So I'm waiting to see how this it

946
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 4: plays out. Because there is no legal standard for the

947
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 4: definition what does it mean to be credibly accused? I

948
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 4: was never happy with that. I think it much be

949
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 4: better to say this man is now subject to a

950
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 4: prosecution and then don't leave that open, finish the trial

951
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 4: and then determine guilty or innocence. So but this is

952
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 4: again we talked about a lot. Modern standards of justice

953
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 4: are not being infect in canonical criminal procedures. They go

954
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 4: on these ancient ways of doing things where everything's hidden,

955
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 4: and then the authority invents a term like credibly accused.

956
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: No, that's not how it should be. Okay, POSSI. We

957
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: will leave it there. Thank you both for your time.

958
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: Grateful to you all as always. If you want more

959
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: of the Arroyo Grande Prayerful Posse, subscribe to the Arroyo

960
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: Grande channel on YouTube or follow our podcast wherever you

961
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: get yours on behalf of Robert Royal, Father Gerald Murray

962
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: Until the Posse rides again, Gang, stay the course, follow

963
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: the light on Raymond Arroyo.

964
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time.

965
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and

966
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,520
Speaker 1: is available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get

967
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: your podcasts.