WEBVTT - My Morning Jacket's Jim James 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:14.680 Pushkin. Music has always been an escape for Jim James, 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:17.520 from the time he started playing guitar as a shy 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.560 teenager in Louisville, Kentucky through his decades long success as 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:24.560 the frontman of My Mowing Jacket, his goal has always 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.680 been the same, to lose himself in the music. Since 0:00:28.720 --> 0:00:31.800 starting My Mowning Jacket in nineteen ninety eight, he's released 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.320 eight albums with the band, along with several critically acclaimed 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.960 solo and side projects, and despite its prodigious output, Jim 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.720 doesn't seem to be running out of material. In July, 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.519 The Jacket released The Waterfall Too, a complete album of 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:50.240 holdovers from their twenty fifteen album The Waterfall, and according 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:54.360 to Jim, they've got another full album already recorded. Jim's 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:56.880 also sitting on a solo project from nineteen ninety eight 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.680 that he's recently started tinkering with again. On today's episode, 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:04.200 Jim talks to Bruce Headlam about how, after decades of performing, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.560 he was only recently able to open his eyes on 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.640 stage and make eye contact with the crowd, and he 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.600 talks about how My Morning Jacket might not exist if 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:19.800 it hadn't been for Kermit The Frog's Rainbow Connection. This 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.800 is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:30.839 justin Richmonds. Just a quick note here. You can listen 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:33.200 to all of the music mentioned in this episode on 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.560 our playlist, which you can find a link to in 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:39.160 the show notes for licensing reasons, each time a song 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.319 is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.840 all right. Enjoy the episode. Here's Bruce Headlam's conversation with 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.520 Jim James. Tell me about Waterfalls two. Tell me how 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.960 it all came about. It's definitely not a leftovers record 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:01.400 or a B sides record. It's like there was a 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.480 time when we finished it all where we're like, oh, 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.840 maybe we'll just release this giant quadruple record or whatever, 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:11.120 you know, of all of the songs. But it just 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.040 felt like that just would have been too much, and 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:16.880 people probably would have missed a lot of the songs, 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.760 just because it's way too much to sort through. Because 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:23.320 even like the first Waterfall is still like double vinyl, 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.880 it's still like a long record. I didn't really think 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.640 about it until the Waterfall two. But I think we 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:36.600 built the Waterfall one with a lot of touring in mind. 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:39.360 You know, oftentimes like we'll think about like, oh, what 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.760 songs are gonna be good in the set, or this 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.800 kind of thing will work itself into the sequence of 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.280 a record as the record sequences itself too, in that 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:55.240 magic process. So it's interesting with the Waterfall too. You know, 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.799 there was no touring because it came up the idea 0:02:57.840 --> 0:02:59.840 that came up to me during the first couple of 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:03.880 weeks of Quarantine as a way to like reconnect with 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.960 fans and reconnect with ourselves as a band, because I 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.919 had forgotten about it, and I one of the songs 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.680 came up randomly as I was walking and I was like, 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.600 oh my god, we've still got this whole other record. 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.320 You know, it's done. It's like, there's this would be 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.160 hopefully a really great thing to release now while we're 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.640 all trapped in this weird pandemic. So it's interesting because 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.000 the record just like it just went shop and it 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.560 all sequenced itself really quickly, and I took a couple 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:38.160 walks with it to feel the sequence, and it was 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.760 just so effortless. So when you say you walked with it, 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.960 did you literally just put a sequence on your iPhone 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.280 or your whatever and then just walk around to see 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.800 did this feel like a record? That's how I walk, 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.600 and I hike a lot, and uh, that's how I 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.840 usually work on most music I'm working on, is whether 0:03:55.880 --> 0:04:00.200 I'm mixing something, or writing something, or sequencing something or 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.920 approving a master or whatever, I'll go hike with it 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.240 and see how it works as a hike. Yeah, that's 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.280 just how I process it. For whatever reason. When I 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:11.800 was listening to it and then I was going back 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:15.040 and forth, sort of toggling between the two records. There's 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.880 a lot more heartbreak in this record. It's much more ambivalent. 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.040 It maybe is not the kind of arena rocker record. 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.640 It's it's very hopeful at points. But the first record 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.520 had more of a drive and I had, you know, 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.960 started with believe and this one, you know, it starts 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.159 with spinning my wheels. It's it's a very different feel. 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.279 Is that a reflection of what you were going through 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.040 back then or what you're going through now? Do you think? Well, 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:44.480 it's funny. I think a lot of those songs didn't 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.400 initially make the Waterfall one because of that reason. We 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:50.520 were touring and we were like, oh, let's, you know, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.320 make it as upbeat as we can and stuff, and 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:57.400 I had gone through a breakup than, you know, real difficult, 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.719 painful breakup that a lot of those songs came out of. 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.400 And it really is in a lot of ways of 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:09.320 breakup record. But I think the reason it resonated with me, 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.720 and maybe the reason it resonates with people now is 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:16.400 because it feels like we're breaking up with life in 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.600 a lot of ways, you know, in this pandemic, it's 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.000 like we've we can't do so many of the things 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.200 we used to love to do, and that's so painful. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.159 So it's like, I didn't really even think about that, 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.080 But if it resonates with somebody, maybe it resonates on 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:35.480 that level. Hopefully it's like a comfort to this sadness 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.600 we're all feeling right now collectively in so many ways, 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.120 you know, that kind of was broken open by the 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:48.320 isolation of the pandemic. Why are the albums called Waterfalls? Well, 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:53.119 I mean, I've just always loved nature, and I've always 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:58.840 needed nature to balance the insanity of life on this 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.240 planet because so many times I don't feel like I'm 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.760 at home on this planet, and I don't understand people, 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.800 and I don't understand why things are the way they 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.479 are here, like why is there so much hatred and 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.080 why is there so much violence and war? So I'll 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.479 go into nature with the trees and the lake and 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.480 the ocean and feel at peace, you know, with those 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.520 beings and for me and nature, one of the coolest 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.480 things is a waterfall. You know, when a water when 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.520 you see a waterfall, whether it's a little one in 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.920 the woods, or you know, giant snow quality falls or 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.320 Niagara Falls or Multnoma Falls, or it's just always been 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:39.440 something that like takes my breath away, you know, and 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.840 I stand there and I can look at it foreffort, 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:43.920 you know, and it's like it plays tricks on your 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.080 mind and you can pretend like you're pausing it or 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:49.520 like rewinding it or fast forwarding it. It's just this 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.000 really amazing thing. So I just thought just to have 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:59.039 that thing with the music felt so cool, you know. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.599 I ask because I grew up near Niagara Falls, and 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:06.800 you know, the thing about waterfalls is there are a 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.840 lot of people who when they see waterfalls, it scares 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.720 them because they feel like they have to jump. You know. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:16.440 There's a whole community people around Niagara Falls who plan 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.360 to go over the falls, even though they know it 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:20.520 might kill them and you ask them why and they're 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:23.960 just like, I just got to do it. Yeah. In 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.160 Walt Whitman in Song of Myself, there's a very powerful 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.680 scene where he walks out I think he calls it 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.360 a headland, but it's like a promontory over a lake 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.200 and he's feelings. People are laughing at him, and he's 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.680 writing about being an artist, but it's all that thing 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.679 like I'm out here and it's beautiful. Do I fall? 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.160 Do I jump? Right? And I just thought of that 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.600 so much when I was listening to this record. That's 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:50.560 what made me think about it in the Waterfalls, because 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.480 that whole thing of risking your life for the sake 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.080 of a song is it's kind of like, am I 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.920 going to jump? Yeah? And that's what a lot of 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.000 the record feels like to me. No, I love that. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.600 I mean, I've never thought about that, but that resonates 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.720 a lot, because, yeah, I feel that for sure with waterfalls. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.640 I mean, that's a great thing about a waterfall too, 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:13.120 is you can view it from the bottom, you can 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:14.920 view it from the top, you know, and when you're 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.320 at the top, you are like, oh my god, you know, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:22.560 like this thing could carry me into the next dimension. 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:24.360 You know. It's like, if I get on this thing 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.720 and fried it off, I am probably gonna be gone 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.360 from this dimension. And yeah, like Niagara, when you're at 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.400 Niagara Falls, You're like, oh my god, Like, if I 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.640 jump in this water and go over these balls, I'm gone. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:42.679 You know, you know, chances are likelihood that I am 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:47.880 fucking gone. And that is like what else you know? 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.640 Can you say that about that kind of powerful force 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.640 that can rip your life away? You know? In nature? 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:56.040 I mean so quickly. You know, of course you could 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.400 drown in a lake or an ocean or whatever. But 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.320 the waterfalls just like you know, it's like, yeah, it's 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.240 vine and it's something kind of ecstatic and exciting about 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:08.280 it too. Sorry, I hope I'm not ruining waterfalls for you. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:09.880 That's not what I meant to do, not at all. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.040 Tell me a bit about spinning my wheels, because it's 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.080 it's got that. It's not the first line, but that 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:18.440 incredible line about wondering about risking your life for the 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.800 sake of a song, it's very unsettling. Tell me where 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.320 that came from. Well, I just had been doing that 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:27.280 for so many years. I had literally, like been to 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:31.920 the hospital three times from injuries that I sustained on tour. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.680 And I really felt for so long touring was a 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:40.160 love hate thing for me because I didn't listen to myself. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:44.520 I listened to managers, you know, and agents and pressure 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.000 and you know, you gotta get out there and go 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.760 on a sixth straight and blah blah blah. You know 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.400 this this relentless push that so many people, I mean 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.400 all of us know it in life, no matter what 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.199 what job we're in. You know, everybody, at a certain 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:01.319 point you have this crushing push of life, and if 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.840 you don't listen to yourself and find some balance, you 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.839 get hurt. You know, you get injured and literally and metaphysically. 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:12.400 And I felt for so long that I was fighting 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.360 that that I kept risking my life over and over 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.840 again to do this this thing, this touring thing or whatever. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.000 So I think eventually that's kind of the jacket, kind 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.040 of I had to put it on hold for a while. 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.000 It takes so much energy. I don't know. If that's 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.439 one thing people don't don't know or think about when 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.960 they think about the bands they love or the artists 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:37.000 they love or whatever. It's like, if you're fortunate enough 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.680 to keep going for a long time, there's so much 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.080 energy that you have to summon. You know. We've been 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.480 touring now for over twenty years or whatever, so a 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.520 lot of these songs I have to find the pain 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.319 of the twenty two year old me or whatever, even 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.080 though I'm a forty year old or whatever, you know. 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.960 And it's like, it's this wild thing that takes up 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.880 so much energy, and if you're not careful with that energy, 0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:06.760 it can kill you. It's like playing with electricity or something. Yeah, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.720 and you're famous for your live shows. They're electric. They're 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.160 huge experiences for people. It's not like, yeah, I saw them, 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.679 they played the songs I liked. It's like, oh my god, 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.640 I saw my morning jacket. People go to feel something, 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.120 to be transformed, that's what we hope. I mean, thanks, 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.719 I don't you know. It's like, live music to all 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.880 of us has always been such a healing thing, you know, 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:31.960 so we want to be a part of that circle 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:35.920 of healing. Yeah, when you see a live concert that 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.720 moves you with people, you know again, it's that thing. 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.319 It heals you so much. We need that so much 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.400 right now, and that's we're missing it during the pandemic, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.640 you know, and it's this fucking like nightmare, you know. 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:52.840 That's uh, yeah, it's it's such a powerful experience. So 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.800 tell me a bit about growing up in in Louisville. 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.840 You had a great quote once I read that everybody 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.000 in the North thinks Louisville's in the south. Everybody in 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.000 the South thinks Louisville is in the north. What kind 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.720 of town was it when you grew up there? Yeah, 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.800 I mean that's why I've always loved it. It's it's 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.240 such a mysterious and strange place. I feel like there's 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.720 so many ghosts here, and there's so many The nature 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.680 here is amazing, Like the trees are amazing, and the 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:25.440 spirits are amazing. There's a lot of creative energy here, 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.240 but there's also a lot of darkness, you know, and 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.280 there's a lot of the horrors of the past of 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.960 the United States, you know, the horrors of slavery and 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:38.000 the the horrors of you know, Louisville being such a 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.880 strange place because, yeah, what it wasn't north, and it 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.280 wasn't south, but it kind of was north and you know, 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:50.000 on the underground railroad a lot of people would escape. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.080 And we went down some friends and I went down 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.640 and stood on the banks of the Ohio River a 0:12:54.720 --> 0:13:00.439 couple of weeks ago and stood where fleeing slaves would 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.840 stand before they tried to cross the Ohio River to 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.440 get to this steeple on the other side in Indiana 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:11.280 as this beacon that once they got to this steeple, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.040 they were probably going to be free. What was it 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.280 like to stand there and look, I mean, I'm tearing 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.120 it up thinking about it now, you know, it's like 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:27.520 just standing there thinking about because that there's a part 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.160 of town called Portland in Louisville. That was where Louisville 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.920 came up, and it was the shipping port on the 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.439 Ohio River. So there's a lot of you know, everything, 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:39.960 a lot of slave trading, a lot of merchandise and 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.160 everything in the town came from there, and a lot 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:45.559 of that. All the buildings and stuff or have been 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.920 gone or have changed, but there's still a lot of 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.360 old houses there that they're like that house used to be, 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:57.760 you know, where abolitionists would hide slaves right before they 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.520 broke across the river to freedom, or that was a 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.160 jail where they would capture slaves and you know, all 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.160 this stuff, all this energy down there. You know, Louisville 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.800 is still battling today with the death of Brianna Taylor 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.320 and all of the systemic racism that you know, we're 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:19.720 battling as a country, But in Louisville it's resonating at 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.080 a really, really high frequency right now, which I think 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.680 is is really hopeful in a lot of ways, because 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.400 hopefully this energy can continue and push to more equality 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.640 and more fairness and real justice. And but it's it's 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:39.400 a Yeah, Louisville's a fascinating place. We should go back, though. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.040 So tell me about your family growing up. You know, 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:48.200 for all intensive purposes, normal middle class family. We struggled 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.600 for a while and you know, never had much money, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.800 and moved to Atlanta, Georgia for a couple of years 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:59.080 and moved back to Kentucky. But always had a really 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:03.840 great and supportive family, Like always had people I could 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.160 depend on. Was there music at home growing up? You know, 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.120 there wasn't a lot of music. Like my parents there 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:12.840 was like music on in the car or whatever. They 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.840 were casual music fans. And luckily when I was a kid, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:17.920 there's a lot of great just kind of oldies radio 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.560 on with whatever Motown or Simon and Garfuncle or you know, 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.040 whatever would be on the oldies radio. So I think 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:27.200 a lot of that one into my brain. Was there 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.960 a point, was there a record? Was there a song 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.320 that when you heard it you said, oh, yeah, that's 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:37.960 that's what I want to do. Yeah. I had several 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.160 of those moments, you know. I mean the first one 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.720 was the Muppet Show, seeing the Muppet Show band the 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.000 Electric Mayhem. You're the first first musician I know whose 0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:49.760 favorite band growing up was with the Muppets. Man, Well, 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:52.640 you saw them, and I remember, you know, even seeing 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.440 Kermit sing the Rainbow Connection. You know, I just would 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:57.240 see that and I'd be like, oh my God, Like 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.320 what is that power he has? You know, what what 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.720 is he doing? You know? And how do I do that? 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.640 You know, like how do I sit on a log 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.440 with a banjo and make that sound that affects people? 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.440 Like this is affecting me, you know. And then as 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.600 I grew older, I remember seeing Neil Young on Saturday 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.000 Night Live to Harvest Moon. You know, that was a 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.680 really turning point for me because we my mom and 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.040 I were up late watching Saturday night live and he 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.080 played and his tech was sweeping the broom, you know, 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.160 and keeping the rhythm on the broom. And we both 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.320 watched that and we're so moved by it. And the 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.840 next day my mom bought me Harvest accidentally instead of 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.520 Harvest Moon. You know, she was like, here's that record. 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.400 We listen, here's what we saw Neil Young play last night. 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.800 And I was like, oh cool. And I put it 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.800 on and I was like, holy shit, you know, like 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.600 this wasn't Harvest Moon. You know, that's a whole other thing, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.800 you know. So I was just like, I never forget 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.320 it in the basement listening to that fucking record, you know, 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.960 and just like that was definitely a current the frog moment, 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.840 you know, of seeing Neil and at that time too, 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.640 grunge was blowing up, so you know, seeing Kurt Comain, 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.960 seeing Michael Stipe was huge for me. R EM was 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.280 a huge thing of seeing like these weird dudes from 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.679 the South, you know, that are like making this weird 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.480 music that is having this beautiful effect on the world. 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.760 You know, I'll never forget seeing r EM and being like, maybe, gosh, 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:36.440 maybe I could do that. You know. It's like because 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.080 I never felt like I could do hair metal, which 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.800 I was also into at the time and was so popular, 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:43.679 and I was like, man, I don't know if I 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.119 can do the hair metal thing, you know, like I 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.720 don't think I don't think I can accomplish that. But 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:51.680 was it the hair or the metal? Because you got 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.360 nice hair? Said, well, it was just so aggressive. There 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.399 was this big, aggressive thing going on, you know, and 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.600 it's like this big you know, as a kid, you 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.679 watch that and you're like, shit, well, I gotta have 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.680 a costume, and I gotta have, you know, leather outfit, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.080 and I gotta have these fucking walls and stacks, you know, 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.280 and all this shit, all the things that went with it. 0:18:11.480 --> 0:18:14.240 You know that that you're like, shit, is that what 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:15.560 you have to have if you're gonna be in a 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.760 rock and roll man? You know, because I didn't have 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.080 older I didn't have any older siblings to tell me 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.160 about lou Reid or tell me about you know, Chuck 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.119 Barrier or older rock and roll. So I kind of 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.879 like was born into rock and roll thinking it was 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.080 a heavy metal or whatever, you know, and then then 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.679 you see Nirvana and you see r Em and you know, 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.840 you see these bands that also talk about their influences. 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.720 So you start going back and you're like, oh, fuck, 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.440 I missed the whole. You know, first couple of chapters 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:46.840 you were saving up for a banjo and a log. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:51.159 So have you actually ever played Rainbow Connection? Yeah? I 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:53.320 played it a couple of times. Oh really, what's it 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.400 like to play? It's amazing? I mean it's a master work. 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.800 You know. It's like Paul Williams wrote that song and 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:03.200 I mean Rainbow Connection again. It's like it's like lean 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.719 on me or imagine or stand by me. You know, 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:13.240 it is one of our greatest songs as a humanity. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.240 We'll be right back with more from Jim James after 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:24.040 the break. Before we jump back into Bruce Headlam's conversation 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.760 with Jim James, let's hear an acoustic performance of Spinning 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:34.520 My Wheels from My Mowning Jacket's new album, The Waterfall Too. 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.400 Was a guitar your first instrument? Yeah? And when did 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.280 when did that start? Like seventh grade? Do you remember 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.120 what your guitar was back then? Yeah, I've I've got 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.399 I'm trying to think of which one I've got because 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.440 I got like my uh my great aunt aunt Betty 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:50.920 was kind of like my grandmother in a lot of ways, 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.159 and she was a real big yard sale nut, you know, 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.119 so she knew I was getting into guitar and she 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.560 got me this real cool, you know, no name brand, 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.960 little fifties guitar or whatever for thirty bucks at a 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.639 yard sale. So I had that. And then my parents 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.200 got me an acoustic for Christmas that was really cool. 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.919 And then my uncle loaned me some money that I 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.880 had to work at his paper company to pay him 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:21.480 back for this like other like cheap squire strat, and 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.119 I still got all three of those guitars. They all 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.040 kind of came around the same time. And then there 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:27.960 was just like a scene in Louisville, right like a 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:30.800 good a lot of musicians where there were a lot 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.760 of clubs. Why were there so many bands there? That 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.720 was a wild scene. So I kind of came in 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:38.480 on the tail end of that scene. It was really 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:44.720 difficult scene. It was really really pretentious, and there was 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:47.959 a lot of like just like kind of snobbery, and 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:52.119 it wasn't a very healthy place, but there was some 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:56.040 really great music that came out of it. And you know, 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:59.280 as a little kid, you know, let's say whatever, eighth grade, 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.760 sophomore in high school. Whenever you're first going to shows, 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.680 you know, you want to be welcomed into these places, 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:08.320 you know, but instead you go and it's like everybody's 0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:10.240 too cool for school, and it's kind of you know, 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:13.160 it's kind of this metaphysical thing where you feel kind 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.679 of like, shit, you know, I'm not cool enough to 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.479 be here or whatever. But around that there grew another 0:21:19.560 --> 0:21:23.200 community of people who felt like that, who also created 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:28.120 this beautiful scene of a more welcoming thing. So there's there, 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:32.400 always has been, and there always will be a really vibrant, 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:37.520 beautiful musical community here. That's uh, you know, so many 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:41.040 different styles of music and just things. But yeah, that 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.600 scene in the in the early nineties Louisville scene was 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:50.119 incredibly popular and incredibly resonated, really big, but it was 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:52.840 a really tough place to be. It's funny how local 0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:59.000 scenes they're either like the Seattle scene was in the 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.960 early nineties, which there's actually those bands got along and 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:03.960 they liked each other and they played with each other. 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.560 Or they're like the sort of New York folks scene. 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.000 They're not cooperative, they're competitive, and it gets a very 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:16.440 cutthroat and as you said, people looking down another. You're 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.040 playing the wrong song, you're playing the wrong instrument, you know, 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.520 you're doing the wrong thing. But you found a group 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.960 of people who are not like that. Yeah. Yeah, a 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.480 group of people who could could just watch each other struggle, 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.240 you know, and enjoy it and laugh about it, you know, 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.440