1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Music has always been an escape for Jim James, 2 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: from the time he started playing guitar as a shy 3 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: teenager in Louisville, Kentucky through his decades long success as 4 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: the frontman of My Mowing Jacket, his goal has always 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: been the same, to lose himself in the music. Since 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: starting My Mowning Jacket in nineteen ninety eight, he's released 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: eight albums with the band, along with several critically acclaimed 8 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: solo and side projects, and despite its prodigious output, Jim 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be running out of material. In July, 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: The Jacket released The Waterfall Too, a complete album of 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: holdovers from their twenty fifteen album The Waterfall, and according 12 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: to Jim, they've got another full album already recorded. Jim's 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: also sitting on a solo project from nineteen ninety eight 14 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: that he's recently started tinkering with again. On today's episode, 15 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: Jim talks to Bruce Headlam about how, after decades of performing, 16 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: he was only recently able to open his eyes on 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: stage and make eye contact with the crowd, and he 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: talks about how My Morning Jacket might not exist if 19 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: it hadn't been for Kermit The Frog's Rainbow Connection. This 20 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm 21 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: justin Richmonds. Just a quick note here. You can listen 22 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: to all of the music mentioned in this episode on 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: our playlist, which you can find a link to in 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: the show notes for licensing reasons, each time a song 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect 26 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: all right. Enjoy the episode. Here's Bruce Headlam's conversation with 27 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: Jim James. Tell me about Waterfalls two. Tell me how 28 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: it all came about. It's definitely not a leftovers record 29 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: or a B sides record. It's like there was a 30 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: time when we finished it all where we're like, oh, 31 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: maybe we'll just release this giant quadruple record or whatever, 32 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: you know, of all of the songs. But it just 33 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: felt like that just would have been too much, and 34 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: people probably would have missed a lot of the songs, 35 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: just because it's way too much to sort through. Because 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: even like the first Waterfall is still like double vinyl, 37 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: it's still like a long record. I didn't really think 38 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: about it until the Waterfall two. But I think we 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: built the Waterfall one with a lot of touring in mind. 40 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: You know, oftentimes like we'll think about like, oh, what 41 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: songs are gonna be good in the set, or this 42 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: kind of thing will work itself into the sequence of 43 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: a record as the record sequences itself too, in that 44 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: magic process. So it's interesting with the Waterfall too. You know, 45 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,799 Speaker 1: there was no touring because it came up the idea 46 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: that came up to me during the first couple of 47 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: weeks of Quarantine as a way to like reconnect with 48 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: fans and reconnect with ourselves as a band, because I 49 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: had forgotten about it, and I one of the songs 50 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: came up randomly as I was walking and I was like, 51 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, we've still got this whole other record. 52 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's done. It's like, there's this would be 53 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: hopefully a really great thing to release now while we're 54 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 1: all trapped in this weird pandemic. So it's interesting because 55 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: the record just like it just went shop and it 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: all sequenced itself really quickly, and I took a couple 57 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: walks with it to feel the sequence, and it was 58 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: just so effortless. So when you say you walked with it, 59 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: did you literally just put a sequence on your iPhone 60 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: or your whatever and then just walk around to see 61 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: did this feel like a record? That's how I walk, 62 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: and I hike a lot, and uh, that's how I 63 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: usually work on most music I'm working on, is whether 64 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: I'm mixing something, or writing something, or sequencing something or 65 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: approving a master or whatever, I'll go hike with it 66 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: and see how it works as a hike. Yeah, that's 67 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: just how I process it. For whatever reason. When I 68 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: was listening to it and then I was going back 69 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: and forth, sort of toggling between the two records. There's 70 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: a lot more heartbreak in this record. It's much more ambivalent. 71 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: It maybe is not the kind of arena rocker record. 72 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: It's it's very hopeful at points. But the first record 73 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: had more of a drive and I had, you know, 74 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: started with believe and this one, you know, it starts 75 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: with spinning my wheels. It's it's a very different feel. 76 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: Is that a reflection of what you were going through 77 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 1: back then or what you're going through now? Do you think? Well, 78 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: it's funny. I think a lot of those songs didn't 79 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 1: initially make the Waterfall one because of that reason. We 80 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: were touring and we were like, oh, let's, you know, 81 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: make it as upbeat as we can and stuff, and 82 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: I had gone through a breakup than, you know, real difficult, 83 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: painful breakup that a lot of those songs came out of. 84 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: And it really is in a lot of ways of 85 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: breakup record. But I think the reason it resonated with me, 86 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: and maybe the reason it resonates with people now is 87 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: because it feels like we're breaking up with life in 88 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, you know, in this pandemic, it's 89 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: like we've we can't do so many of the things 90 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: we used to love to do, and that's so painful. 91 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: So it's like, I didn't really even think about that, 92 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: But if it resonates with somebody, maybe it resonates on 93 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: that level. Hopefully it's like a comfort to this sadness 94 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: we're all feeling right now collectively in so many ways, 95 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: you know, that kind of was broken open by the 96 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: isolation of the pandemic. Why are the albums called Waterfalls? Well, 97 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:53,119 Speaker 1: I mean, I've just always loved nature, and I've always 98 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: needed nature to balance the insanity of life on this 99 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: planet because so many times I don't feel like I'm 100 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: at home on this planet, and I don't understand people, 101 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: and I don't understand why things are the way they 102 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 1: are here, like why is there so much hatred and 103 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: why is there so much violence and war? So I'll 104 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: go into nature with the trees and the lake and 105 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: the ocean and feel at peace, you know, with those 106 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: beings and for me and nature, one of the coolest 107 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: things is a waterfall. You know, when a water when 108 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: you see a waterfall, whether it's a little one in 109 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: the woods, or you know, giant snow quality falls or 110 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: Niagara Falls or Multnoma Falls, or it's just always been 111 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: something that like takes my breath away, you know, and 112 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: I stand there and I can look at it foreffort, 113 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like it plays tricks on your 114 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: mind and you can pretend like you're pausing it or 115 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: like rewinding it or fast forwarding it. It's just this 116 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: really amazing thing. So I just thought just to have 117 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: that thing with the music felt so cool, you know. 118 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: I ask because I grew up near Niagara Falls, and 119 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, the thing about waterfalls is there are a 120 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: lot of people who when they see waterfalls, it scares 121 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: them because they feel like they have to jump. You know. 122 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: There's a whole community people around Niagara Falls who plan 123 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: to go over the falls, even though they know it 124 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: might kill them and you ask them why and they're 125 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: just like, I just got to do it. Yeah. In 126 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: Walt Whitman in Song of Myself, there's a very powerful 127 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: scene where he walks out I think he calls it 128 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: a headland, but it's like a promontory over a lake 129 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: and he's feelings. People are laughing at him, and he's 130 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: writing about being an artist, but it's all that thing 131 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,679 Speaker 1: like I'm out here and it's beautiful. Do I fall? 132 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: Do I jump? Right? And I just thought of that 133 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: so much when I was listening to this record. That's 134 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: what made me think about it in the Waterfalls, because 135 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: that whole thing of risking your life for the sake 136 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: of a song is it's kind of like, am I 137 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: going to jump? Yeah? And that's what a lot of 138 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: the record feels like to me. No, I love that. 139 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I've never thought about that, but that resonates 140 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: a lot, because, yeah, I feel that for sure with waterfalls. 141 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a great thing about a waterfall too, 142 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: is you can view it from the bottom, you can 143 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: view it from the top, you know, and when you're 144 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: at the top, you are like, oh my god, you know, 145 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: like this thing could carry me into the next dimension. 146 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: You know. It's like, if I get on this thing 147 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: and fried it off, I am probably gonna be gone 148 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: from this dimension. And yeah, like Niagara, when you're at 149 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: Niagara Falls, You're like, oh my god, Like, if I 150 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: jump in this water and go over these balls, I'm gone. 151 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: You know, you know, chances are likelihood that I am 152 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: fucking gone. And that is like what else you know? 153 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: Can you say that about that kind of powerful force 154 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: that can rip your life away? You know? In nature? 155 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: I mean so quickly. You know, of course you could 156 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: drown in a lake or an ocean or whatever. But 157 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: the waterfalls just like you know, it's like, yeah, it's 158 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: vine and it's something kind of ecstatic and exciting about 159 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: it too. Sorry, I hope I'm not ruining waterfalls for you. 160 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: That's not what I meant to do, not at all. 161 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: Tell me a bit about spinning my wheels, because it's 162 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: it's got that. It's not the first line, but that 163 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: incredible line about wondering about risking your life for the 164 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: sake of a song, it's very unsettling. Tell me where 165 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: that came from. Well, I just had been doing that 166 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: for so many years. I had literally, like been to 167 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: the hospital three times from injuries that I sustained on tour. 168 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: And I really felt for so long touring was a 169 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: love hate thing for me because I didn't listen to myself. 170 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: I listened to managers, you know, and agents and pressure 171 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: and you know, you gotta get out there and go 172 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: on a sixth straight and blah blah blah. You know 173 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: this this relentless push that so many people, I mean 174 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: all of us know it in life, no matter what 175 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,199 Speaker 1: what job we're in. You know, everybody, at a certain 176 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: point you have this crushing push of life, and if 177 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,840 Speaker 1: you don't listen to yourself and find some balance, you 178 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: get hurt. You know, you get injured and literally and metaphysically. 179 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: And I felt for so long that I was fighting 180 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: that that I kept risking my life over and over 181 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: again to do this this thing, this touring thing or whatever. 182 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: So I think eventually that's kind of the jacket, kind 183 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: of I had to put it on hold for a while. 184 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: It takes so much energy. I don't know. If that's 185 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: one thing people don't don't know or think about when 186 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: they think about the bands they love or the artists 187 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: they love or whatever. It's like, if you're fortunate enough 188 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: to keep going for a long time, there's so much 189 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: energy that you have to summon. You know. We've been 190 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: touring now for over twenty years or whatever, so a 191 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: lot of these songs I have to find the pain 192 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: of the twenty two year old me or whatever, even 193 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: though I'm a forty year old or whatever, you know. 194 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: And it's like, it's this wild thing that takes up 195 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: so much energy, and if you're not careful with that energy, 196 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: it can kill you. It's like playing with electricity or something. Yeah, 197 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: and you're famous for your live shows. They're electric. They're 198 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: huge experiences for people. It's not like, yeah, I saw them, 199 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: they played the songs I liked. It's like, oh my god, 200 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: I saw my morning jacket. People go to feel something, 201 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: to be transformed, that's what we hope. I mean, thanks, 202 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,719 Speaker 1: I don't you know. It's like, live music to all 203 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 1: of us has always been such a healing thing, you know, 204 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: so we want to be a part of that circle 205 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: of healing. Yeah, when you see a live concert that 206 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: moves you with people, you know again, it's that thing. 207 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: It heals you so much. We need that so much 208 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: right now, and that's we're missing it during the pandemic, 209 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, and it's this fucking like nightmare, you know. 210 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: That's uh, yeah, it's it's such a powerful experience. So 211 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: tell me a bit about growing up in in Louisville. 212 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: You had a great quote once I read that everybody 213 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: in the North thinks Louisville's in the south. Everybody in 214 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: the South thinks Louisville is in the north. What kind 215 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: of town was it when you grew up there? Yeah, 216 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: I mean that's why I've always loved it. It's it's 217 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: such a mysterious and strange place. I feel like there's 218 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: so many ghosts here, and there's so many The nature 219 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: here is amazing, Like the trees are amazing, and the 220 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: spirits are amazing. There's a lot of creative energy here, 221 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: but there's also a lot of darkness, you know, and 222 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot of the horrors of the past of 223 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: the United States, you know, the horrors of slavery and 224 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: the the horrors of you know, Louisville being such a 225 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: strange place because, yeah, what it wasn't north, and it 226 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: wasn't south, but it kind of was north and you know, 227 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: on the underground railroad a lot of people would escape. 228 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: And we went down some friends and I went down 229 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: and stood on the banks of the Ohio River a 230 00:12:54,720 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago and stood where fleeing slaves would 231 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: stand before they tried to cross the Ohio River to 232 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: get to this steeple on the other side in Indiana 233 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: as this beacon that once they got to this steeple, 234 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: they were probably going to be free. What was it 235 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: like to stand there and look, I mean, I'm tearing 236 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: it up thinking about it now, you know, it's like 237 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: just standing there thinking about because that there's a part 238 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: of town called Portland in Louisville. That was where Louisville 239 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: came up, and it was the shipping port on the 240 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: Ohio River. So there's a lot of you know, everything, 241 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: a lot of slave trading, a lot of merchandise and 242 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 1: everything in the town came from there, and a lot 243 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: of that. All the buildings and stuff or have been 244 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: gone or have changed, but there's still a lot of 245 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: old houses there that they're like that house used to be, 246 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, where abolitionists would hide slaves right before they 247 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: broke across the river to freedom, or that was a 248 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: jail where they would capture slaves and you know, all 249 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: this stuff, all this energy down there. You know, Louisville 250 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: is still battling today with the death of Brianna Taylor 251 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: and all of the systemic racism that you know, we're 252 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: battling as a country, But in Louisville it's resonating at 253 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: a really, really high frequency right now, which I think 254 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: is is really hopeful in a lot of ways, because 255 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: hopefully this energy can continue and push to more equality 256 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: and more fairness and real justice. And but it's it's 257 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: a Yeah, Louisville's a fascinating place. We should go back, though. 258 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 1: So tell me about your family growing up. You know, 259 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: for all intensive purposes, normal middle class family. We struggled 260 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: for a while and you know, never had much money, 261 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: and moved to Atlanta, Georgia for a couple of years 262 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: and moved back to Kentucky. But always had a really 263 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: great and supportive family, Like always had people I could 264 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: depend on. Was there music at home growing up? You know, 265 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of music. Like my parents there 266 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: was like music on in the car or whatever. They 267 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: were casual music fans. And luckily when I was a kid, 268 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: there's a lot of great just kind of oldies radio 269 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: on with whatever Motown or Simon and Garfuncle or you know, 270 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: whatever would be on the oldies radio. So I think 271 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: a lot of that one into my brain. Was there 272 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: a point, was there a record? Was there a song 273 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: that when you heard it you said, oh, yeah, that's 274 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: that's what I want to do. Yeah. I had several 275 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: of those moments, you know. I mean the first one 276 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: was the Muppet Show, seeing the Muppet Show band the 277 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: Electric Mayhem. You're the first first musician I know whose 278 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: favorite band growing up was with the Muppets. Man, Well, 279 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: you saw them, and I remember, you know, even seeing 280 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: Kermit sing the Rainbow Connection. You know, I just would 281 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: see that and I'd be like, oh my God, Like 282 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: what is that power he has? You know, what what 283 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: is he doing? You know? And how do I do that? 284 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: You know, like how do I sit on a log 285 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: with a banjo and make that sound that affects people? 286 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: Like this is affecting me, you know. And then as 287 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: I grew older, I remember seeing Neil Young on Saturday 288 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: Night Live to Harvest Moon. You know, that was a 289 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: really turning point for me because we my mom and 290 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: I were up late watching Saturday night live and he 291 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: played and his tech was sweeping the broom, you know, 292 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: and keeping the rhythm on the broom. And we both 293 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: watched that and we're so moved by it. And the 294 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: next day my mom bought me Harvest accidentally instead of 295 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: Harvest Moon. You know, she was like, here's that record. 296 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: We listen, here's what we saw Neil Young play last night. 297 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh cool. And I put it 298 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: on and I was like, holy shit, you know, like 299 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: this wasn't Harvest Moon. You know, that's a whole other thing, 300 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: you know. So I was just like, I never forget 301 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: it in the basement listening to that fucking record, you know, 302 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: and just like that was definitely a current the frog moment, 303 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: you know, of seeing Neil and at that time too, 304 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: grunge was blowing up, so you know, seeing Kurt Comain, 305 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: seeing Michael Stipe was huge for me. R EM was 306 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: a huge thing of seeing like these weird dudes from 307 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: the South, you know, that are like making this weird 308 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: music that is having this beautiful effect on the world. 309 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: You know, I'll never forget seeing r EM and being like, maybe, gosh, 310 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: maybe I could do that. You know. It's like because 311 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: I never felt like I could do hair metal, which 312 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: I was also into at the time and was so popular, 313 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:43,679 Speaker 1: and I was like, man, I don't know if I 314 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: can do the hair metal thing, you know, like I 315 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:48,720 Speaker 1: don't think I don't think I can accomplish that. But 316 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: was it the hair or the metal? Because you got 317 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: nice hair? Said, well, it was just so aggressive. There 318 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: was this big, aggressive thing going on, you know, and 319 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: it's like this big you know, as a kid, you 320 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: watch that and you're like, shit, well, I gotta have 321 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: a costume, and I gotta have, you know, leather outfit, 322 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: and I gotta have these fucking walls and stacks, you know, 323 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: and all this shit, all the things that went with it. 324 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: You know that that you're like, shit, is that what 325 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: you have to have if you're gonna be in a 326 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: rock and roll man? You know, because I didn't have 327 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: older I didn't have any older siblings to tell me 328 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: about lou Reid or tell me about you know, Chuck 329 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: Barrier or older rock and roll. So I kind of 330 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 1: like was born into rock and roll thinking it was 331 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: a heavy metal or whatever, you know, and then then 332 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: you see Nirvana and you see r Em and you know, 333 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: you see these bands that also talk about their influences. 334 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: So you start going back and you're like, oh, fuck, 335 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: I missed the whole. You know, first couple of chapters 336 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: you were saving up for a banjo and a log. 337 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: So have you actually ever played Rainbow Connection? Yeah? I 338 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: played it a couple of times. Oh really, what's it 339 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: like to play? It's amazing? I mean it's a master work. 340 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: You know. It's like Paul Williams wrote that song and 341 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: I mean Rainbow Connection again. It's like it's like lean 342 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,719 Speaker 1: on me or imagine or stand by me. You know, 343 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: it is one of our greatest songs as a humanity. 344 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Jim James after 345 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: the break. Before we jump back into Bruce Headlam's conversation 346 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: with Jim James, let's hear an acoustic performance of Spinning 347 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: My Wheels from My Mowning Jacket's new album, The Waterfall Too. 348 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: Was a guitar your first instrument? Yeah? And when did 349 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: when did that start? Like seventh grade? Do you remember 350 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: what your guitar was back then? Yeah, I've I've got 351 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of which one I've got because 352 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: I got like my uh my great aunt aunt Betty 353 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: was kind of like my grandmother in a lot of ways, 354 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: and she was a real big yard sale nut, you know, 355 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: so she knew I was getting into guitar and she 356 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: got me this real cool, you know, no name brand, 357 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: little fifties guitar or whatever for thirty bucks at a 358 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: yard sale. So I had that. And then my parents 359 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: got me an acoustic for Christmas that was really cool. 360 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 1: And then my uncle loaned me some money that I 361 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: had to work at his paper company to pay him 362 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: back for this like other like cheap squire strat, and 363 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: I still got all three of those guitars. They all 364 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: kind of came around the same time. And then there 365 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: was just like a scene in Louisville, right like a 366 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: good a lot of musicians where there were a lot 367 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: of clubs. Why were there so many bands there? That 368 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: was a wild scene. So I kind of came in 369 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: on the tail end of that scene. It was really 370 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: difficult scene. It was really really pretentious, and there was 371 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 1: a lot of like just like kind of snobbery, and 372 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: it wasn't a very healthy place, but there was some 373 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: really great music that came out of it. And you know, 374 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: as a little kid, you know, let's say whatever, eighth grade, 375 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: sophomore in high school. Whenever you're first going to shows, 376 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: you know, you want to be welcomed into these places, 377 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: you know, but instead you go and it's like everybody's 378 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: too cool for school, and it's kind of you know, 379 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of this metaphysical thing where you feel kind 380 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: of like, shit, you know, I'm not cool enough to 381 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,479 Speaker 1: be here or whatever. But around that there grew another 382 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: community of people who felt like that, who also created 383 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: this beautiful scene of a more welcoming thing. So there's there, 384 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: always has been, and there always will be a really vibrant, 385 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: beautiful musical community here. That's uh, you know, so many 386 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: different styles of music and just things. But yeah, that 387 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: scene in the in the early nineties Louisville scene was 388 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: incredibly popular and incredibly resonated, really big, but it was 389 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: a really tough place to be. It's funny how local 390 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: scenes they're either like the Seattle scene was in the 391 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: early nineties, which there's actually those bands got along and 392 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: they liked each other and they played with each other. 393 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: Or they're like the sort of New York folks scene. 394 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: They're not cooperative, they're competitive, and it gets a very 395 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: cutthroat and as you said, people looking down another. You're 396 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: playing the wrong song, you're playing the wrong instrument, you know, 397 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: you're doing the wrong thing. But you found a group 398 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: of people who are not like that. Yeah. Yeah, a 399 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 1: group of people who could could just watch each other struggle, 400 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: you know, and enjoy it and laugh about it, you know, 401 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: like just just to have fun, you know, to be 402 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: all be a part because we're all struggling, you know that. 403 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: And that's one reason I think a lot of us 404 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: love music so much, because it helps you get through 405 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: the struggle. You've got a there's a strong spiritual element 406 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: to your songs, and certainly the way you talk about it, 407 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: there's a strong spiritual element, and you really, you really 408 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: feel about music that it's a kind of restorative thing 409 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: in people's lives. Did you go to church when you 410 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: were a kid. Where did that sense come from, that 411 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: spiritual sense? Well, it was my church. I am a 412 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: recovering Catholic. I was raised Catholic and I'm still recovering 413 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: from that. I've never been able to really get down 414 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: with any kind of organized religion, like I don't. I don't. 415 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 1: I also don't look down on it. Whatever people want 416 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: to do is that was fine with me, but it 417 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: never worked for me. So I always found religion in 418 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: music and in nature. I feel like those were the 419 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: only places I ever felt like my life mattered or 420 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: that it made sense at all. That was the only 421 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: way I could find peace, you know. And then once 422 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 1: you start growing up and learning about people like George 423 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: Harrison or Alice Coltrane or you know, people that really 424 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 1: started to explain to you the spiritual side of music, 425 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, and that music is indeed healing, and indeed 426 00:23:55,800 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: there are spiritual and scientific principles behind notes and frequencies 427 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: and chords, and you know these things that in the 428 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: music of the earth, you know, the music of nature, 429 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: the music of the birds, the music of the waterfalls. 430 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: You know, all these things that a lot of times 431 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: we don't even realize our music as well. Do you 432 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 1: take that with you into the concert hall, because your 433 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: concerts are you know, people describe your concerts as religious experiences, 434 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: not that they're converted to anything, but they're they're bigger 435 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: than themselves. They feel connected in a way. Is that 436 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: something you aim for or is it about your relationship 437 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: with the audience. Where does that come from? Definitely. I mean, 438 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: you aim for it, you don't always get there, you know, 439 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: but the goal is to get lost, right, The goal 440 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: is to be gone, you know, I think for all 441 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: of us. And I I played a rally the other 442 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: day for Amy McGrath here in Kentucky, and I hadn't 443 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: played a show in for I can't remember the last 444 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: time I play a show and I only played two songs. 445 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,959 Speaker 1: It was just a kind of rally thing, and I 446 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: realized again that thing. I was like, there are these 447 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: moments when the gateway is open, like the portal is open, 448 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: and I'm gone, and then there's moments when I'm back 449 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh shit, it's my guitar and tune 450 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: or it's kind of cold out here, you know, and 451 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: you're back on the earth thinking about all the shit 452 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: that you think about. But when you're gone, you're gone, 453 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: and you're in touch with everything. You know, You're in 454 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: touch all of life forces in touch. I feel like 455 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 1: when when we're in that state and you know, you 456 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: can get there through meditation, or you can get there 457 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: through love or sex, or you can get there through music, 458 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: or you can get there through nature. So yeah, I 459 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: hope when people come see our concerts. That can happen 460 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: for them too, you know, they can I can get 461 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: there so that they're not on the earth anymore, and 462 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: we're all united on this other plane that we don't 463 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: have words for. And you kind of come and go, 464 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: you know, you step behind the veil and you're gone 465 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: on and you wake up and you're like, oh shit, 466 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: I gotta go pee, or I gotta go get a 467 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: beer from the bar, or somebody just knocked into me, 468 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: or whatever brings you back to earth. It sounds like 469 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: you remember that experience of going into clubs when you 470 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: were a kid and not feeling welcome. Oh yeah, there 471 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: are things you do to make your audience feel welcome 472 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: or tricks you do. I mean, we always want everybody 473 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: to feel welcome, because that's one thing as a kid, 474 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: and you know, like going to this scene, this this 475 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: snobbish scene in Louisville, like I never felt welcome going 476 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: to a Catholic grade school in high school, I never 477 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: felt welcome. You know. I always felt like the outcast, 478 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,239 Speaker 1: kind of freak or whatever. And it's like, you know, 479 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, that's kind of all 480 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: of our job to realize we're all in the same boat. 481 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: You know, we're all some blend of unique freakishness in 482 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: a beautiful way, no matter what you are, no matter 483 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: how normal you think you are or how weird you 484 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 1: think you are. So it's like music is one of 485 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 1: the best ways to unify on that, you know. So 486 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: I think we try to do everything we can to 487 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: let everybody know that they're welcome and that this is 488 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: all about equality and inclusion and safety and love and peace. 489 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: And you know, how can we be as much of 490 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: a force of love as possible. I'm wondering, when you're playing, 491 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: do you do you ever look out and see somebody 492 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: who reminds you of you back when you weren't feeling 493 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: so welcome. That's a great question, you know what. It's wild. 494 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,239 Speaker 1: For the longest time, I couldn't look at people like 495 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: I couldn't handle it. I mean for years, when we 496 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: first started playing, I had my hair in my face 497 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: and I had and for years I had sunglasses on. 498 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: For a lot of times, I can't. It's so intense 499 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: that I can't handle it. For years I couldn't, And 500 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: then two or three years ago something changed and I 501 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,040 Speaker 1: could handle it. And now I like it now, I 502 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: like looking out and finding people and looking into people's 503 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 1: eyes and trying to see people, you know, And I've 504 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: never thought about it that way, but I definitely you 505 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: see people throughout the thing. You know, you see somebody 506 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: and you're like, oh man, they look lost, or you 507 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: see somebody crying, or you see somebody fucking throwing their 508 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: beer in the air and screaming, you know, enjoy. And 509 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: it's so it's like, that's a wild thing to be 510 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: on stage and see that many different emotions, you know, like, 511 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: was it just was it just too intense for you before? 512 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: You couldn't it was too intense and I was too shy, 513 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: and I was too nervous, and I was too because 514 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: a lot of times too you'll look at people and 515 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: they've got their arms crossed and they look like they 516 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: hate it, you know. And until I realized, I was like, 517 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: I probably look like that a lot of my favorite shows. 518 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: You know, if I'm like kind of bummed or whatever, 519 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be dancing and throwing a beer around, 520 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: even though I'm like loving the show, you might look 521 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: at me and I'm like, you know, and when you 522 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: see people as a performer, I look in the crowd, 523 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: and I used to see somebody like that, but I'll 524 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: be like, oh shit, we're doing terrible this is a 525 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: terrible show. I'm doing terrible job, you know. And it's 526 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: like I would get focused on that one person that 527 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: looked bummed and missed all the other people that looked joyful. 528 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: You know. I just couldn't handle that for a year, 529 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: for the majority of our career. Wow, is it nicer 530 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: to play now? Oh yeah, Oh my god, it's incredible. 531 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: I mean it's only the last two or three years 532 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: or whatever that I've flipped the page and gotten into 533 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: enjoying it. And now it'spec, you know. And it's so 534 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: funny because the Jacket was on break for a long 535 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: time and we got together and did these four shows, 536 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 1: two at Red Rocks and to New York, and those 537 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: shows were probably my favorite shows of my life. You know. 538 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 1: It's like they were so beautiful and so all career spanning, 539 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: and I felt so present and so connected, and it's 540 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: like I could look into people's eyes and I didn't 541 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: feel the need for any costumes or any tricks or 542 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's just like, let's go live or die, 543 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: but with the music I'm gonna walk out here in 544 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: my fucking T shirt with my guitar and I'm gonna 545 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: look you in the eye. I'm gonna try. I'm gonna 546 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: try to look you in the eye, and I'm gonna 547 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: fucking live or die. And that's it, you know, that's 548 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: the end of the thing. And it was so beautiful, 549 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: and then the fucking pandemic hits. You know, it's like 550 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: and that's like stop. You know, right when we were like, 551 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: oh right, this is awesome, I'm like, I'm ready to 552 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 1: do this. So now it's like, you know, we're all 553 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: on pause or whatever. So whenever it comes back, it's like, 554 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: I get teared up thinking about it. How powerful it's 555 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: gonna be for all of us to go to concerts again. 556 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: You know, when when we can all get together again, 557 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: it is gonna be like fucking crazy. We'll be right 558 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: back with more from Jim James after the break. We're 559 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: back with Jim James and Bruce Hadlow. You've done a 560 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: lot of covers. You did an album of Harrison covers. 561 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: He did the New Basement Tapes, which were you and 562 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: a lot of other great musicians, Elvis Costello and Mumfords 563 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: and many people writing songs to Bob Dylan lyrics and 564 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: you did the same thing with Woody Guthrie. What was 565 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: it like to write to somebody else's lyrics? So cool? 566 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: I mean, couldn't have better lyrical uh, you know than 567 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: Dylan and Guthrie. You know, it's like so because we 568 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: did the Woody Guthrie one first, and being at the 569 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: Guthrie archives, like seeing all his massive output of lyrics 570 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: like everywhere on grocery receipts and bags, and you know, 571 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: there's piles, mountains and mountains and mountains of lyrics that 572 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: this guy wrote, you know, and it's like, you know, 573 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: and obviously he was no longer with us, so there 574 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: was a lot of I would try and find him 575 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: out there, you know, as I was writing these music 576 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: and try and get his blessing and bring him in 577 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: and hope that he was good with what was going on. 578 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: And with the Dylan thing was so crazy because they 579 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: like brought all these lost lyrics that he had written 580 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: back in the Woodstock basement tape days or whatever, and 581 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,920 Speaker 1: we're sitting here looking at like the actual pieces of paper, 582 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: the literal pieces of paper that he wrote all this 583 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: shit on and you're like, motherfucker's still alive. You know. 584 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: It's like, I hope he likes this stuff. You know. 585 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: It's like so I'd like tried to find him, you know, 586 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: and and and look to him for guidance, you know, 587 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,479 Speaker 1: in the ether or whatever, even though he's still alive. 588 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: And the first day we were there, somebody's like Jones 589 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: across the hall like some other records, and we were 590 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: all like, oh shit, we were all like super terrified, 591 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: were like, I hope he was a stop pot. You know. 592 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: It was like it was so funny. Did you end 593 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: up meeting them then or since then? No. We toured 594 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,479 Speaker 1: with the Dylan years ago, and uh I got to 595 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: sing on stage with him a couple of times, which was, 596 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, beyond an honor to say the least. He 597 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: brought Jeff Tweedy and myself out. We were on tour 598 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: with Wilco and Dylan, and we we stag with him 599 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: six or seven times throughout the tour. But never did 600 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: you see him off stage. You know, he was not. 601 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: It's like his bus rolls up five minutes before he plays. 602 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: He walks off this bus on the stage, plays the 603 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: songs he gets back on the bus and rolls away. 604 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: You know, that's he's not there at all. He's gone, 605 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, so just see him like that's that's song. 606 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: I'm not there right right. It was so crazy. So 607 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: you're like the only time I've ever seen him was 608 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: up there on that stage. Wow. It was so wow. Yeah, 609 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: you just you couldn't walk up with a couple of 610 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: beers and say hey, hey, why didn't you join us? 611 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: It was well, that's how they pitched the tour to 612 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: us like that, and that's why we were so excited 613 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: about the tour. They were like, Dylan wants to collaborate 614 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: with some younger vands and like, we'll have you guys, Wilco. 615 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: And you know, we pictured ourselves like sitting around the 616 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: camp fire and being like, let's do desire and it's 617 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: entirety tonight, Bob bells that sound you're like, or like 618 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: let's write a new song or whatever, you know, and 619 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: we pictured all this collaboration and all these high jinks 620 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: and stuff, and we get on tour and it's like 621 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: he is not there for h you know, for like 622 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: the first two or three weeks, we didn't even hear 623 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 1: anything about any uh, collaborations or anything. And then one 624 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: day his bass player, Tony walks up to us at 625 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,359 Speaker 1: dinner and hands us the CD of this Reverend Gary 626 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: Davis song and he's like, I think Bob wants wants 627 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: you guys to come sit in with him tonight, you know, 628 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: and and uh, and we were like wow, you know, 629 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: just like out of the blue. And then Uh, I 630 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: had heard this before, but he notoriously likes to change 631 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: the key, I guess, and I don't know thing about 632 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: keys or anything, you know. So Jeff and I are 633 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: like rushing to learn this song before we go play 634 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: it with him, you know. And we're like backstage with 635 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 1: our guitars and we like finally kind of learn it, 636 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 1: and literally like ten minutes before we're getting ready to gone, 637 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: the guitar tech comes back and he's like, oh, I 638 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: think Bob wants to do it and B flat and 639 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: stood a D diminished or whatever the original king was. 640 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: So we're like, oh shit. We run back into catering. 641 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,959 Speaker 1: We're like using our capos around like trying to figure 642 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: out it was. I mean, I don't think I've ever 643 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: been more nervous in my life. It was so funny. 644 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: Did it come off though I don't know, I don't know. 645 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I who knows. I hope. So he's so 646 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: fucking cool though, because you look over at him and 647 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: he I mean talk about gone. I mean that dude 648 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: is like you look over at Bob and he is 649 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: not there in the coolest way, you know what I mean, 650 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: It's like he is. I don't know what where he 651 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: is or what's going on, but it was inspiring to 652 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: look over there and see that far away look in 653 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: his eyes, like in a in an inspiring way, not 654 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: a not a vacant way, you know. It was like 655 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: like he you know, for so many of us, he 656 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,360 Speaker 1: is such a channel, you know, and it's like to 657 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: see see up see him that close, like it was. 658 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,759 Speaker 1: It was really beautiful. I am interested that did you 659 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: were there things about writing to his lyrics that when 660 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: you were writing the songs and the songs you wrote 661 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: are they're very different sounding, particularly on the on the 662 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: on the New Basement tapes, like you really take his 663 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: songs in kind of different directions. No, one, it doesn't 664 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: sound like a Bob Dylan tribute album sounds like you 665 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: really transform them, right, But when you were doing them, 666 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: where you were going, I see what he did here, 667 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do this on my next album. Where there 668 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: were there tricks you saw or things he did you thought, Okay, 669 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: that's great, I'm gonna I'm gonna use that. I mean 670 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: probably subliminally, you know. I mean, there's been so much 671 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,480 Speaker 1: of his music that's informed and inspired so much of 672 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: my music. You know. It's like, so I don't think 673 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 1: consciously I wrote there's still four or five songs that 674 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: I wrote and re recorded that didn't get released or whatever. 675 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: So I wrote eight or nine songs. And after I'm 676 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: trying to think of what we did after that. I 677 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: think we did the Waterfall after that. I think maybe 678 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: one thing that I did learn was just to try 679 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: and be less precious with things, because that was one 680 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: thing that is well known about the Basement Tapes is 681 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: there's so much information, you know, beyond what was released 682 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: as the original Basement tapes. You know, now there's been 683 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: box sets released and all the stuff of all the 684 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: Basement tapes. And then to learn there were this project 685 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: we did even more lyrics you know, that never got music. 686 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,319 Speaker 1: And the beautiful thing about it was is you could 687 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: feel he wasn't being precious about it because some of 688 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 1: these lyrics are hilarious, you know, some of them are goofy. 689 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: Some of them are heartbreakingly crushingly sad. You know, some 690 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 1: are the most beautiful poetry you've ever read. And as 691 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: I went into the future from that, I was like, 692 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: let's just let it be. You know, this stuff comes 693 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: from wherever it comes from, and I'm just gonna let 694 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: something be goofy, or I'm gonna let it be half finished, 695 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: or I'm gonna let it be complete and beautiful and 696 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: heartbreaking or monumental, you know, whatever the thing is trying 697 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: to be, instead of trying to change it too much, 698 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna let it be what the universe wants 699 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: it to be. What's writing like for you? Now? Are 700 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: you writing currently? I'm always kind of writing, but I've 701 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: been so bummed during this whole pandemic that it's like 702 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 1: I feel like, and I know a lot of people 703 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,279 Speaker 1: can probably relate to this, I feel like most days 704 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: you're just trying to keep your head above water, you know, 705 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: of just like the horror of the current administration and 706 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: the horror of the political landscape, and you know, hoping 707 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: that there's a vaccine, you know, hoping all these things. 708 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 1: I feel like this is such a time where we're 709 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: all like just trying to like get through each day. 710 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: You know, we're doing fine. Has become the new great. 711 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: You know, if you're doing you're doing fine, that's all 712 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: you're you're having to all of a day. So a 713 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: lot of days I don't have the metaphysical energy to 714 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,439 Speaker 1: work on things, but I'm still collecting. Ideas are coming, 715 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: and I collect them on my voice memil so I 716 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: don't forget them so I can work on them. And 717 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: I've also been going through I've got a lot of 718 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,759 Speaker 1: older albums that I've made, and I've been working on 719 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: a lot of older stuff, like trying to finish older stuff. 720 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: And that's been really healing for me because that's been 721 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: a different part of my brain. That's like a I 722 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: can still be productive and creative, but I'm not using 723 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: this whatever part of your brain you use when you're 724 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: working on brand new things. If that makes sense, Can 725 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: you work on old stuff and not be too hypercritical, 726 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: not look and say, ah, what was I thinking? And 727 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: I shouldn't have done that? And you know what interested 728 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: me about waterfalls is is that you just took those 729 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: songs from five years ago, and you didn't say, you know, 730 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: we got to fix this. That was why was I 731 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: doing Anybody else would feel self conscious, but you're like, no, 732 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: it's what they are. That's the thing. It's all the 733 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: time machine, you know. It's all for me now to 734 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: go fix that thing. It's kind of like breaking the 735 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: space time continuum or whatever. And I'm not even saying 736 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: you can't or you shouldn't do that, because there are 737 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: no rules to anything, so people should do whatever they 738 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: want musically. But for me, that's one of the coolest 739 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,479 Speaker 1: things about music or a career trajectory is you get 740 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: these little time machine snapshots of a person over all 741 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: these years. So the person I was when I made 742 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: the waterfall a completely different person, you know. And I 743 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: was a heartbroken person and all this energy that's so different. 744 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: And I'm literally you know, they say your cells regenerate 745 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: every seven years or whatever, so you're literally a completely 746 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: different person physically too. But it's interesting because I have 747 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: this record I made years ago, like in nineteen ninety 748 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: eight or something that I made with one of my 749 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: buddies who's now passed away, and actually Patrick from my 750 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: Morning Jacket played drums on it, and it's been sitting 751 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,399 Speaker 1: there forever, and for years I've just been like, there's 752 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: so much I like about it, but you know, it's real, 753 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: not recorded that well, and there's a lot of mistakes 754 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: and YadA YadA, YadA, and I'm like, oh jeez, Louise. 755 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: But just recently I was like, I'm just just gonna 756 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,439 Speaker 1: finish this fucking thing and just let it be as 757 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: it was. You know, it's like here it is. If 758 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,200 Speaker 1: you like it, great, if you don't great, you know, 759 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,720 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's just like it's fun. It's fun 760 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: for me to like feel this cool old time machine 761 00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: because back then I was obsessed with it. I love 762 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: it was like, I fucking it was all I could 763 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: think about. You. Also, you've done a couple of interesting things, 764 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: because you know, I tend to think of you as 765 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: like a you're a rock guy, so you're thinking of 766 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: guitar licks and solos and lyrics. But you did this 767 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: this great cover of the Brian Wilson song I just 768 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,319 Speaker 1: Wasn't made for these times, and you you sampled an 769 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 1: old Isaac Hayes song for it that's kind of like 770 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: almost a hip hop mentality. It's like a collage. You're 771 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: putting things together there. Do you do a lot of 772 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,520 Speaker 1: that kind of experimentation too? Oh yeah, I mean I've 773 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: always loved sampling and uh, I mean, if you think 774 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: about it, everything sampling. You know, if you play a 775 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,840 Speaker 1: C and a G chord, how many fucking people have 776 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: played C and G chords before you or whatever? You know, 777 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: it's it's all, yeah, you don't know if you talk 778 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 1: to their lawyers though, that's the well, yeah that is true. 779 00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: But but it's interesting though, when you think about the 780 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: way that like literal sampling started just as a necessity 781 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, it's like people started looping these 782 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: passages so they could speak their mind and speak their 783 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,160 Speaker 1: lyrics over this passage because they didn't have a guitar, 784 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: or they didn't you know whatever, they didn't have a 785 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: drum kit, so they had a recorded drum kit that 786 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: they could loot, you know, from an old James Brown 787 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: record or whatever. And it's like the I just wasn't 788 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 1: made for these times. Thing was so cool because I 789 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: had written liner notes for a reissue of Hot Buttered Soul, 790 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: and when I did that, they sent me stems from 791 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: a lot of my favorite stacked songs, like they sent 792 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: me the swims from a Hot Buttered Soul and from 793 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: what you see is what you get, and like several 794 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 1: snack songs. So when whenever I had heard, I was 795 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,120 Speaker 1: obsessed with Hot Buttered Soul for years. Like to me, 796 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: Hot Buttered Soul is like Dark Side of the Moon 797 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: in its scope and psychedelic landscape yet orchestral as It's 798 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: just a phenomenal record. And whenever I would hear by 799 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: the time I get to Phoenix, I would in my mind, 800 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: I'd always start singing I just wasn't made for these 801 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: times for some reason. I don't know why. I just 802 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 1: that would always happen for me, because there's a large 803 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: lead up. By the time I get to Phoenix is 804 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,759 Speaker 1: like nineteen minutes long, and the first eight minutes is 805 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: just Isaac Hay's talking over this single organ note in 806 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,720 Speaker 1: this tinging high hat or whatever. And in my mind, 807 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,919 Speaker 1: whenever we would listen to that record, I would kat 808 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: looking for you know, I would sing the Beach Boys song, 809 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,879 Speaker 1: and when I got the stems, I was like, oh fuck, 810 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,439 Speaker 1: I can like make this into the Beach Boys song. 811 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 1: It was so cool. Are you gonna be one of 812 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: those stem collectors now, like quest love, because because that's 813 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: a deep habit. Oh my god. Yeah, all the stems 814 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: that you find whenever. I mean I'm not like obsessed 815 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: like looking for it, but whenever somebody sends me something, 816 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: or you get to hear the stems of your favorite records, 817 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, like like what's going on? Like the stems 818 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: to that. I mean when you get to hear Marvin 819 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,399 Speaker 1: Gays isolated vocal and you're there in the vocal booth 820 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: with him hearing his like feet scratch around or hearing 821 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: him adjust to headphones or whatever. You know, all this 822 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,879 Speaker 1: shit that's in your song that you don't hear, it's 823 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,359 Speaker 1: all subliminal because it's all mixed in there. But when 824 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,399 Speaker 1: you get to hear that ship or hear like James 825 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 1: Jamerson's Baseline isolated or the strings like it is, mind blow. 826 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: Does the world miss the sort of big albums like 827 00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: you mentioned, Hotbuttered Soul, What's going On, Dark Side of 828 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,399 Speaker 1: the Moon. Whether people like that music or not, they 829 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: were just big. They took up a lot of room. 830 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: You kind of couldn't get around them if you if 831 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,200 Speaker 1: you were alive and listening to the radio. You knew 832 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: what those were. You know, Otis Redding's Blue, Sergeant Pepper, 833 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: whatever album, you know, rumors, whatever you want to say, 834 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: Is there something about those that were missing now in 835 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: the world those kind of big statements. No, No, I 836 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,360 Speaker 1: think there's so many bands making so many great records, 837 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,479 Speaker 1: so much amazing music right now. I think the only 838 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: thing that people don't realize is that back then they 839 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,080 Speaker 1: were like a couple of mirrors through which almost everybody 840 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,360 Speaker 1: saw music, you know, And with the Internet, it's like 841 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: somebody took a hammer and shattered the mirrors into thousands 842 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: of pieces. So now it's not as easy to have 843 00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,320 Speaker 1: a cultural moment. You know, we don't get these cultural 844 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,839 Speaker 1: moments anymore because everybody's all fragmented, and it's like, you 845 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,440 Speaker 1: like indie dance pop, then you're fragmented into this mirror shard. 846 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,160 Speaker 1: Or you like hip hop, you're over here, you know, 847 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,960 Speaker 1: And it's like, and there are those of us who 848 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,959 Speaker 1: are trying to look at all of the shards because 849 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 1: we love all types of music. But I feel like 850 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:15,000 Speaker 1: grunge was maybe the last era, or that era or 851 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: even slightly after that was like there there were these 852 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: moments of galvanized albums like a clemini by Outcast or 853 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: you know, just like whatever, even Nirvana, Nevermind or whatever, 854 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's Thriller or what. You know, these these moments 855 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,839 Speaker 1: of like albums that were like not only were they 856 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: artistic in mind expanding, but they're also phenomenally commercially successful. 857 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: You know that. That's where I think we don't see 858 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: that anymore because everything's shattered and albums sales have been 859 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 1: stolen from artists. So now it's like they're still artists 860 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,879 Speaker 1: making statements and making incredible music, but it's all it's 861 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: like you have to find it in this sea of 862 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,480 Speaker 1: sea of illusions, you know, and it's like and you 863 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:00,960 Speaker 1: have to find it on your your phone or your 864 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,880 Speaker 1: fucking computer. And I know I'm sick of screens, you know, 865 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: but we kind of have to use them, especially during 866 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: the pandemic. I'm I'm grateful for them. Okay, what's next 867 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 1: for you? I don't know. I mean, I hope, God, 868 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: isn't it wild. I have no idea, you know, I 869 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: just hope to be a lot. You know. It's like 870 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,520 Speaker 1: I hope that we're all free, you know. I hope 871 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,960 Speaker 1: that we're all working towards equality. I hope we all 872 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: can somehow managed to all get healthcare. I hope we 873 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,719 Speaker 1: can all stay safe and healthy and not get this 874 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 1: fucking virus. I hope that a cure or a treatment 875 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: or whatever comes soon so we can all get back 876 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 1: out there and enjoy life the way it's meant to 877 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: be enjoyed, you know, and like and like people are saying, 878 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: I really believe, let's not go back to normal, you know, 879 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,760 Speaker 1: let's go forward. Okay. When you think about the future 880 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 1: and you think about getting up on stage when this 881 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: is all over and there's a crowd in front of you, 882 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: what's the song you're gonna play? Wow, that's a great, 883 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,280 Speaker 1: great funt. I don't know, because there's so many songs 884 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,239 Speaker 1: we haven't played, you know, there's so many songs we 885 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: have played, and there's so many songs we haven't I mean, 886 00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: by the time that happens, I don't I don't know. 887 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: I mean, we've already got a whole new Jacket record 888 00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: and we've got this new Waterfall two things. So we've 889 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,240 Speaker 1: already got like two whole records full of music that 890 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:24,839 Speaker 1: that we have never played. Gosh, I don't know. It's 891 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,400 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a very overwhelming moment. But I've also 892 00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: realized that I think we all tend to think in 893 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 1: terms of these kind of yes or no moments, like 894 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 1: and I've realized it's not going to be that way, 895 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: because it's gonna be a slow trickle back in. As 896 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,240 Speaker 1: I realized the other day when I played this rally, 897 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,080 Speaker 1: it's like whenever my morning Jackie gets to play a 898 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:50,280 Speaker 1: concert again, it's not gonna be you know, nine thousand 899 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,800 Speaker 1: screaming people at Red Rocks. It's gonna be socially distanced. 900 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,879 Speaker 1: Everybody's kind of scared coming back in. You know, there's 901 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,200 Speaker 1: some masks, there's a you know, wherever it is, it's outdoor. 902 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,040 Speaker 1: It's gonna be a gradual thing where I feel like 903 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,600 Speaker 1: we're all gonna have to hold each other's hands back 904 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,279 Speaker 1: into this thing, you know, and yeah, move slowly back in, 905 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,920 Speaker 1: you know, because people are fucking broke too, and every 906 00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: band's going to be coming back on the road, you know. 907 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,799 Speaker 1: And so you've got every band coming back on the road, 908 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: and you're broke. You know, It's it's Thursday night in 909 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,839 Speaker 1: Oklahoma City and fucking five of your favorite bands are 910 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 1: in town. You know, what do we do. You know, 911 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 1: we've got to be flexible with the idea of ticketing 912 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: and prices, and you know, hopefully we can have some 913 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,239 Speaker 1: kind of sliding scale system in place so people with 914 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 1: no money can come to the show. It's gonna be nuts. 915 00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: I guess you're like anybody else. You need a plan 916 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,880 Speaker 1: for reopening. Totally listen. It's been fantastic talking to you. 917 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: It's been just wonderful. It's a great record. Thank you 918 00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: so much for it. Thank you, and thank you for 919 00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,799 Speaker 1: talking and best of luck with everything you too. Thanks 920 00:49:54,840 --> 00:50:00,680 Speaker 1: so much. Thanks to jim James for recording songs for 921 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,040 Speaker 1: us and catching us up on everything he's been up 922 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: to while in quarantine. You can hear our favorite my 923 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,839 Speaker 1: Morning Jacket in Jimmy James Songs on a playlist at 924 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 1: broken record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to 925 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast. 926 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,719 Speaker 1: There you can find extended cuts of new and old episodes. 927 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,800 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, 928 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:29,200 Speaker 1: Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, and his executive Produced by mil Lobell. 929 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,560 Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries and if 930 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,719 Speaker 1: you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and 931 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: review us on your podcast. Dad A theme musics by 932 00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,280 Speaker 1: Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond bass