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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George nor

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Speaker 1: with you with Ben west Off. Of course, his book

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Speaker 1: is called Fencanel, Inc. And it's a great book. Where

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Speaker 1: do people get the book? Ben? You can get it

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Speaker 1: anywhere you buy books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, your local bookseller, anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Is it illegal to manufacture this stuff in China? It is? Yes.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that these Chinese manufacturers can get around

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Speaker 1: the law through just slightly tweaking the chemical formula and

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Speaker 1: so then you've got a new type of fentanel and

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Speaker 1: those have been banned as well more recently, but the

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Speaker 1: enforcement is very spotty and there's still a lot of

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Speaker 1: fentanel coming into the United States. Now. What is Operation Denial?

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Speaker 1: Operation Denial was the most wide ranging international fentanel investigation

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Speaker 1: ever and it began after an eighteen year old boy

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Speaker 1: named Bailey Hankey from North Dakota died from fentanyl. And

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Speaker 1: so the investigation tracked the local dealers who got him

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Speaker 1: the fentanel and the dark web dealers who sold it

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Speaker 1: to them. The dark web dealers got it from China,

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Speaker 1: and the operation went all the way to the top

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Speaker 1: to the Chinese manufacturers who originally made the fentanyl. But

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Speaker 1: even though they were indicted by the US Department of Justice,

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Speaker 1: these Chinese manufacturers are still at large because China has

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Speaker 1: refused to extradite them. What percent would you say, ben

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Speaker 1: of pure cocaine has fentanyl in it? Now? I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say it's, you know, the majority, But I would say

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Speaker 1: that there are so many drug dealers out there who

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Speaker 1: are taking shortcuts who are trying to boost their profits

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Speaker 1: by putting cocaine, putting fentanel in the cocaine. That wouldn't

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Speaker 1: trust I wouldn't trust it at all. No, that's what's

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Speaker 1: so unbelievable. Yet people continue to use this. Don't they

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Speaker 1: even think about the possibilities that the fentanyl might be

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Speaker 1: laced in there? Well, I think people don't. I think

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Speaker 1: fentanyl is so new that people don't realize that it's

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Speaker 1: out there. The Singer's Prince and Tom Petty both died

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Speaker 1: because they actually took pills that they thought were legitimate

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical opioid pills like vic it in or oxycon, but

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Speaker 1: they were actually laced with fentanyl. They died instantly. I

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Speaker 1: mean it shuts down your lung system or something like that,

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Speaker 1: or is it a heart attack. Well, it basically stops

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Speaker 1: you from breathing, so it shuts down your respiratory system.

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Speaker 1: Oh and so if you're found in a frozen position,

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Speaker 1: chances are you got hit by fentanyl right there. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of reports of people who died

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Speaker 1: with the needle still in their arm because they died

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Speaker 1: so quickly. We have a friend in Saint Louis who

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Speaker 1: died ten months ago. We knew he was on vicodin

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Speaker 1: and xanax for anxiety. We didn't know how much, but

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Speaker 1: we were after him all the time. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't. He was an adult and if he doesn't

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Speaker 1: listens to you, what are you going to do? And apparently,

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Speaker 1: and I'm only speculating, they found him in a sitting

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Speaker 1: up position in his house with his rob on eyes,

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Speaker 1: open mouth open, hands clenched. I have a feeling he

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Speaker 1: was using something else with it and got hit by

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Speaker 1: fetnel because they never gave us the autopsy report. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's quite likely. And that is one of the very

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Speaker 1: most lethal combinations. Are these pills like xanax and vallium.

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Speaker 1: These are called benzo dies apan yep, and when those

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Speaker 1: are combined with opioids like fentanyl or oxycon or heroin,

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Speaker 1: that is one of the very most lethal combinations out there.

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Speaker 1: And alcohol it's asolutely that's another depressant and they'll do

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Speaker 1: the same thing. How many synthetic drugs are out there

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Speaker 1: on the market these days, Well, as I write about

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Speaker 1: my book, there's just it's been an explosion recently. So

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Speaker 1: for most of humanity's existence, people took natural drugs that

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Speaker 1: came from plants. There were maybe a handful of different drugs,

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Speaker 1: but in the last few years, there's literally a hundred

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Speaker 1: or more new ones every year because they're all synthetic.

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Speaker 1: Now they don't come from plants anymore. They're made in

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Speaker 1: a lab, and so these chemists can just tweak these

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Speaker 1: molecular formulas and create brand new drugs. They used to

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Speaker 1: be called designer drugs and now they're known as novel

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Speaker 1: psychoactive substances. Realistically, can this fentyl craze and epidemic stopped.

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Speaker 1: I'm very pessimistic right now, just because the problem keeps

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Speaker 1: getting worse, and every year more people are dying from

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Speaker 1: fentanyl Now, the problem, as I mentioned earlier, is that

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Speaker 1: most people don't want fentanel. They get it without even

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Speaker 1: realizing it because drug dealers are trying to save money

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Speaker 1: and it's cut into all these other drugs that people

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Speaker 1: are intending to take well, and I don't think anybody

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Speaker 1: in the right mind, given the choice, would take the

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Speaker 1: cocaine with fentanyl in it. They'd probably prefer the pure stuff. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the good news is that it's possible to check these drugs.

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Speaker 1: So if you go online and you search for a

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Speaker 1: fentanyl testing strip, they're very cheap and that tells you

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Speaker 1: instantly if fentanyl is in your other drugs, even in

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Speaker 1: a minute amount. Yes, they're getting more and more sophisticated,

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Speaker 1: these fencinyl testing strips. Gosh, you know, if somebody were

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Speaker 1: using it for whatever reason, and I'm talking about cocaine folks,

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Speaker 1: and I hope you're not, but if you are get

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Speaker 1: these strips, it's your life exactly. And I actually I

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Speaker 1: went to China to investigate these labs where these drugs

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Speaker 1: are made. I was the first journalist to ever go

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Speaker 1: inside a Chinese fencinyl lab, and what I found was

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Speaker 1: very disturbing. It really blew me away. It's got to

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Speaker 1: be scary. Why aren't the dealers checking it with some

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Speaker 1: kind of testing equipment before they sell it to the public. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question. The number one question I get

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Speaker 1: is why would dealers want to kill their own customers,

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Speaker 1: their market? Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I talked to a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of dealers and users about this,

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Speaker 1: and what they say is that in the addicted users mindset,

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Speaker 1: when they hear that someone else overdosed, they don't think, well,

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Speaker 1: I should stay away from that batch. They think, Wow,

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Speaker 1: that batch must be really powerful. I want to get

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Speaker 1: some of that batch for myself. About what year do

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Speaker 1: you think, Ben, this all started with the fentanyl. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's been it's been building for a while, but around

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, particularly in Saint Louis. I'm from Saint Louis too,

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Speaker 1: and they started noticing the police on the grounds, and

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Speaker 1: the users started hearing about this new type of fentanyl.

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Speaker 1: They thought, this new type of heroin they thought at first,

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Speaker 1: and slowly and gradually the death toll mounted until now

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Speaker 1: it's um It's at a level no one thought was possible.

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Speaker 1: Who have you talked to about this recently? About this

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Speaker 1: kind of epidemic in terms of how they planned to

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Speaker 1: stop this. Well, I think, um, I had a friend

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Speaker 1: who died from fentanyl, the fentanyl patches actually, and so

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Speaker 1: people may have heard of these, these fentanyl patches. They're

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Speaker 1: for chronic pain, they're for people with cancer. They even

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Speaker 1: have a lollipop that's a that is with medical fentanyl.

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Speaker 1: And this has been this This killed my friend in

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Speaker 1: two thou ten. So I really wanted to know. This

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Speaker 1: made it personal for me. This is what got you

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Speaker 1: into it? Yeah, and I'm sure your listeners too know

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Speaker 1: people who have died from fentanyl, no, people with opioid addictions,

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Speaker 1: and so I wanted to know, yeah, what is what

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Speaker 1: is happening? What are we doing here? And unfortunately a

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Speaker 1: lot of the response from the government has been more

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Speaker 1: of these same old War on drugs policies, the idea

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Speaker 1: that we need to lock up the users. And what

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Speaker 1: we've found is that this just isn't effective. You know,

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Speaker 1: the recidivism rate for people who go to jail for

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Speaker 1: small drug crimes is absurdly high. People go to jail

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Speaker 1: and then they come right back out and start using again.

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Speaker 1: And so what I advocate for is more treatment. These

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Speaker 1: people need. These are these are not criminals. They're a

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Speaker 1: lot of them are committing crimes to defend their habit.

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Speaker 1: But if they get treatment, they not only can get better,

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Speaker 1: but they can stop doing crimes in order to support

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Speaker 1: their habits. You used to write for the Riverfront Time,

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Speaker 1: so you must know our buddy Ray Hartman. Yeah I did.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't the editor when I was there, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know Ray, and he since sold the Riverfront Times

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Speaker 1: and us these mini entrepreneur in Saint Louis these days, Ben, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he is, and I you know Saint Louis's We're right

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Speaker 1: in the heart of the rust belt, and it feels

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Speaker 1: like this plague gets hit the Midwest so hard, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's combined with a lot of times the

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Speaker 1: unemployment rate and fentanyl and the opioid epidemic has unfortunately

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Speaker 1: come here in a big way. Well, I gotta tell

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Speaker 1: you to me, you're an American hero, because this is

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Speaker 1: the first major investigation in the fentanyl anywhere nobody really

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Speaker 1: is doing anything on it. Yeah. I was shocked to

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Speaker 1: hear that no one had ever gone to China and

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Speaker 1: tried to go to one of these fentanyl labs. And

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Speaker 1: what I actually did was I just I started out

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Speaker 1: by googling by fentanyl in China. I wanted to know

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Speaker 1: how easy it was to do it, and all these

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Speaker 1: websites came up. They had the salespeople their email addresses,

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Speaker 1: and so I made a fake email address with a

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Speaker 1: fake name, and I wrote them, I said, I want

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Speaker 1: to come to China and do a drug deal with

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Speaker 1: you at your lab? Can we do this? And to

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Speaker 1: my surprise, they said yeah us And so I got

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Speaker 1: play into China and I got to visit one of

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Speaker 1: these labs where types of fentanel are made, and it

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Speaker 1: was very much sort of like the TV show Breaking

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Speaker 1: bad Ye with these giant glassware, and the amounts of

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Speaker 1: Sentinel and other drugs being made just blew my mind.

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Speaker 1: What it really reminded me of was the scene in

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Speaker 1: Scarface near the end with those huge piles of cocaine

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Speaker 1: and he's losing his mind al Pacino, and you know

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Speaker 1: that was child's play. Compared to the amount of drugs

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Speaker 1: being made in these Chinese labs, why isn't the Chinese

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Speaker 1: government busting these places? A lot of people think it's

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Speaker 1: because China Chinese citizens don't have a problem with fentanyl.

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Speaker 1: So in China, they have drug problems with other drugs

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Speaker 1: like math and heroin, but Chinese people aren't. They don't

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Speaker 1: have this big opioid crisis like we do. Well, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think they're putting the fentanyl and the cocaine

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Speaker 1: that the Chinese are using exactly. Fentanyl is not a

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Speaker 1: problem there, and so China has not dedicated the resources

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Speaker 1: to stopping these factories, even though they're exporting fentanyl to

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Speaker 1: the US in giant quantities. How often does someone get

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Speaker 1: to a hospital and what's the mortality rate ben once

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Speaker 1: they have ingested fentanyl? I mean, are they going to

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Speaker 1: die for sure? Or can they be saved? Well, the

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Speaker 1: good news is that there's something called Narcan, which some

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Speaker 1: of your listeners may have heard of, and narcan is

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Speaker 1: basically a miracle opioid reversal drug. It usually comes as

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Speaker 1: a nasal spray and if someone is overdosing on fentanyl

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Speaker 1: or heroin or OxyContin, you can give them these nasal

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Speaker 1: sprays and it will bring them back to life. But

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Speaker 1: that you've got to have that handy and it's got

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Speaker 1: to be done fast. That's right. You can buy it

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Speaker 1: at places like CBS, but first responders need better access

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Speaker 1: to it. Firemen are saving a lot of people's lives

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Speaker 1: with narcan, and bet you bet you're right, it's it's

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Speaker 1: best to be equipped. Geez, what a frightening situation. I

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Speaker 1: have just a sneaky suspicion that the Chinese government just

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Speaker 1: doesn't care. You're not the only one who believes that,

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Speaker 1: and it's certainly um. What was the most disturbing revelation

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Speaker 1: from my book Fentanyl Link is that not only is

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Speaker 1: China not stopping fentanyl from being exported to America, they're

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Speaker 1: actually encouraging the fentanyl industry in China. Now, how do

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Speaker 1: they do this. They offer tax breaks and subsidies to

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Speaker 1: companies that are making fentanyl and other deadly drugs. They

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Speaker 1: actually encourage these companies through tax breaks. When so, when

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Speaker 1: I found that out, my mind is blown. That's this

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Speaker 1: is unbelievable. I mean, did this is tantamount to a

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Speaker 1: country sending poison over to another country? That is exactly

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Speaker 1: what it is. It's um, you know, this is you know,

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Speaker 1: we talk a lot about terrorism, but terrorism only kills

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Speaker 1: a small amount of lives. Fentanyl kills. Like we were

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Speaker 1: saying thirty thousand Americans a year and the fact that

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Speaker 1: China is encouraging this trade through the tax code is

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Speaker 1: just devastating. Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every

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Speaker 1: weeknight at one am Eastern, and go to Coast to

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Speaker 1: Coast am dot com for more