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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst Us,

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Speaker 1: the production of iHeart Media and Crime Online. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever walked the streets of downtown and you're surrounded by

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Speaker 1: a lot of people, or at a mall, or at

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Speaker 1: the grocery store in a parking lot, and you just

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Speaker 1: pause and look around Killers amongst Us. It's so extraordinary

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Speaker 1: that they look just like everybody else. They could be innocuous,

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Speaker 1: or they could be flamboyant and well liked in their community.

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Speaker 1: What lurks in the hearts of men and women from

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Speaker 1: the outside looking in? There's no way to tell. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us, Killers amongst Us.

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Speaker 1: Right out to Deborah Mark, anchor and Talk Radio seven

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Speaker 1: ninety KABC. Deborah, the recent information that we got over

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Speaker 1: this past weekend is that after our show Friday night,

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Speaker 1: cops have now gone out and started reinterviewing people, interviewing friends.

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Speaker 1: We also learned about the possessions being thrown in a dumpster,

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Speaker 1: the jeep being towed away almost immediately after she goes missing.

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Speaker 1: About a week and a half later, Nancy, after she disappeared,

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Speaker 1: a friend of hers saw her husband's daughter and his

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Speaker 1: new girlfriend taking her stuff. They were in a car,

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Speaker 1: they drove to the restaurant, took stuff out of the car,

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Speaker 1: and started throwing things into the dumpster allegedly. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was a few things they decided to keep, but

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Speaker 1: most of the things were just thrown away. That's hl

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Speaker 1: In and I'm interviewing Deborah Mark from KABC in the

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Speaker 1: search for Dawn Van's what happened to her? Well, of

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Speaker 1: course it aroused suspicion when her clothing and some of

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Speaker 1: her possessions were thrown in a dumpster by her husband

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Speaker 1: a new girlfriend, But that does not evidence make While

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Speaker 1: it's certainly raised the hackles of the family, but what

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Speaker 1: about the mystery text. Finally, a friend named Monica comes

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Speaker 1: to police with a real clue. Hi, what can we

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Speaker 1: do for you? My husband and I have been friends

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Speaker 1: with David and Don since they got here, were regulars

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Speaker 1: at the restaurant. Anyway, I know that she's disappeared, but

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Speaker 1: I actually just got a test from her. What does

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Speaker 1: it say? It says, I'm okay, I'm in Florida. I'm

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Speaker 1: starting over Pixie. Pixie, which is the nickname that David

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Speaker 1: gave Dawn. That text message and of itself would explain

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Speaker 1: where Don was and it should relieve the worry from

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Speaker 1: her friends. But it did it, and I'll tell you why.

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Speaker 1: There was a glaring problem with that text. The nickname

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Speaker 1: Pixie was misspelled. How often do you misspell your own name? Again?

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, This as killers amongst us. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: being with us. What a panel joining together today in

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Speaker 1: the case of missing Dawn Then's first of all crack

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Speaker 1: reporter Larry Altman, crime reporter for Daily Breeze at the

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Speaker 1: time Don goes missing. Now freelance journalist, death investigator, professor forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on

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Speaker 1: Amazon Now, the star of a hit series Poisonous Liaisons

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Speaker 1: on the True Crime Network for police Chief John's Creek.

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Speaker 1: Chris Buyers twenty five years on the force, now private

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Speaker 1: investigator polygrapher at Chris Buyers Investigations and polygraph dot Com

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Speaker 1: psychologist junct professor Columbia University. Doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis, renowned

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Speaker 1: defense attorney, former prosecutor, Joining me to day out of

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta Jurisdiction, DARYLD Cohen and special guests, The Brothers

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Speaker 1: and sister of Dawn Vian's Derek, David, and Dana to everyone,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us well the moment it's

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Speaker 1: pointed out that Pixie is misspelled in that mystery text,

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Speaker 1: this is what happens. Take a listen to the Perfect Murder.

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Speaker 1: We decided to take it to the next level and

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Speaker 1: do electronic surveyllables. We had a pole camera facing the

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Speaker 1: rear of the restaurant. We had GPS trackers on David's car,

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Speaker 1: and we also had undercovers that would go into the

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Speaker 1: restaurant occasionally for meals. During the investigation, one of the

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Speaker 1: phone calls from Don's phone was to Jackie, so we

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Speaker 1: added her phone number to the wire tap. David's daughter

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Speaker 1: has returned home to South Carolina, so detectives divide and

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Speaker 1: conquer in order to capture the phone calls, we had

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Speaker 1: to stimulate conversation between them. At that point, it was

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Speaker 1: decided that I would fly to South Carolina and confront

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Speaker 1: Jaggie just to get the phone's rune. The strategy proves

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Speaker 1: more fruitful than cops ever anticipated. Straight out to Larry Altman,

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Speaker 1: a crime reporter Daily Breeze at the time that Dawn

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Speaker 1: goes missing. So investigators start this electronic surveillance on David

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Speaker 1: Van's Don's husband, including GPS trackers, wire taps. They even

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Speaker 1: go undercover into the restaurant to eat to get a

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Speaker 1: sense of what's going on. But then they fly out

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Speaker 1: to see his daughter, Jackie. She had moved back to

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Speaker 1: South Carolina. What happens when they get there, Larry Altman, Well,

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Speaker 1: while they are interviewing her, and I'll tell you what

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Speaker 1: she said in a moment, they are also utilizing me.

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Speaker 1: And they used me. They gave me a story which

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Speaker 1: was true that and this is all going on. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, they told me that they had gone

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Speaker 1: into the residence where Don and David had lived. They

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Speaker 1: found blood in there. They believed Don was dead and

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Speaker 1: that there was blood, and that he was a person

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Speaker 1: of interest in the case. So I wrote a story

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Speaker 1: to put that out to the world. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: they're interviewing her, and during that interview, she apparently admitted

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Speaker 1: that her father had told her that he had killed

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Speaker 1: Dark Holy Molly. To defense attorney Daryl Cohen, you know what, Darryl,

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Speaker 1: I've about had it up to my eyeballs with you

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Speaker 1: going in court insisting about the Constitution protecting people from

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Speaker 1: their statements they make to cops, because the constitution doesn't

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Speaker 1: protect you from blabbing to your own family. There's no

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Speaker 1: protection for that. Daryl Cohen, did you hear what Altman

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Speaker 1: just said? I heard that the daughter, the adult daughter,

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Speaker 1: Jackie wasn't Wasn't she the one that was helping throw

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Speaker 1: out don Vin's clothing, Larry, wasn't she and the new

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Speaker 1: girlfriend doing that? Yeah? Okay, what about it? Darryl Cohen?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear that? What's the problem? Ancy? What's the

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Speaker 1: problem with throwing out clothing? If Pixie and by the way,

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Speaker 1: have you guys have ever heard of auto correct? Usually

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Speaker 1: auto non correct because it constantly changes words and names

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Speaker 1: and spellings. Well, what's the problem with throwing out Pixie? Disappeared?

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Speaker 1: She left, so they want to clear out everything. They

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Speaker 1: don't want to think about it because she's gone. She

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Speaker 1: just took off. Okay, wait right there, I agree with you,

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Speaker 1: just because Dawn Van's quote disappeared. Yeah, that's nothing. I've

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Speaker 1: got nothing to take to a jury or even a

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Speaker 1: grand jury. But then that's like you know, telling me

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Speaker 1: go make a cake with nothing but the flour that's

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Speaker 1: not gonna work. But then I add the butter. Then

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Speaker 1: I add the milk and the egg, and guess what,

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Speaker 1: turn on the oven. I got a cake. Now Here,

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Speaker 1: you've got Dawn Van's suddenly going missing. Then you have

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Speaker 1: the daughter Jackie and the new mistress that was quick

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Speaker 1: not judging. The husband says he fires Dawn and brings

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Speaker 1: in a new hostess within a few weeks. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: still not I still don't have a case. But then

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Speaker 1: you have a mystery text where Dawn misspells her own name.

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Speaker 1: Still don't have anything. But now I've got David Vin's

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Speaker 1: own blood daughter stating, oh yeah, that pixie text, Daddy

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Speaker 1: told me to do that. I didn't do that, Almane. See,

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Speaker 1: she thought she was in trouble for sending it, which

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Speaker 1: she should have been. Then she blamed her dad. Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friend at forty eight hours, Richard Slessinger,

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Speaker 1: Did you tell them the truth? I did? Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: told them what happened, and then she called her father

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Speaker 1: to tell him what she had done. I said, Pops,

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Speaker 1: they're looking for you. I mean they just came and

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Speaker 1: talks to me, and I told them what happened. So

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Speaker 1: you know, be aware they're going to become a for you.

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Speaker 1: It was an unanticipated extra stimulation, and that next morning,

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Speaker 1: February twenty third, two thousand and eleven, Vian's saw Altman's story.

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Speaker 1: Could you tell them the truth? I didn't. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: told them what happened. And then she called her father

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Speaker 1: to tell him what she had done. I said, Pops,

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Speaker 1: they're looking for you. I mean they just came and

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Speaker 1: talked to me, and I told them what happened, so

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Speaker 1: you know, be aware they're going to be coming for you.

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Speaker 1: It was an unanticipated extra stimulation, and that next morning,

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Speaker 1: February twenty third, two thousand and eleven, Vian's saw Altman's

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Speaker 1: story on page one, I smell a rat, Daryl Cohen. Well, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: you can smell a rat. But smelling a rat doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you see the rat. Smelling a rat doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: the rat exist. What it means is it gave you

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Speaker 1: some reason to continue whatever superficial or deep investigation you had.

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Speaker 1: But quite frankly, the fact that this daughter said yes,

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Speaker 1: I said it and Daddy told me to do it.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't want to throw herself under the bus, so

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Speaker 1: she throws her dad under the bus. Does that mean

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Speaker 1: he killed dog? No? And you know that's exactly why

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Speaker 1: I like trying people together, codefendants. I'll let them boil

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Speaker 1: in the same pot because they always started pointing the

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Speaker 1: finger at each other. You know, when was it, Dana Pappen,

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Speaker 1: this is John's sister that you found out? When did

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Speaker 1: you find out? The daughter? The grown daughter who high

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Speaker 1: tails it back to South Carolina says her dad told

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Speaker 1: her to send the text from quote Pixie and she

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Speaker 1: misspelled the name. I don't remember exactly how I found out.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of information coming in at the time.

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Speaker 1: I just remember being really sad by it, really upset

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Speaker 1: when you first learned that the sister the daughter David

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Speaker 1: Bean's daughter. David Pappen said she was the one that

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Speaker 1: sent the mystery text. I mean a lot of people

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Speaker 1: had panned hopes on that text that your sister was

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Speaker 1: alive somewhere in Florida. M I knew that she was

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Speaker 1: not in Florida because I was in Florida, and she

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Speaker 1: would have definitely reached out. If she just laughed with

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Speaker 1: nothing but the Louis Vaton bag, she would have certainly

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Speaker 1: readed some help. So I knew she wasn't a Florida

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Speaker 1: What about it, Derek, Yeah, I agree with just one

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Speaker 1: more wool over the sheep's eye a year everything that

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Speaker 1: has happened. At this point, police start digging in, d

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Speaker 1: egging in. I mean to you, Chief Chris Buyers, former

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Speaker 1: chief of John's Creek, twenty five years on the force,

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Speaker 1: Chief Buyers, if you had gotten that much information, what

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Speaker 1: would you think? Yeah? Absolutely, I mean detective working, It's

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Speaker 1: just like building a puzzle. You have these little pieces

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Speaker 1: and you figure out how they sit together, and eventually

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Speaker 1: you start to get a sense of what the picture is.

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Speaker 1: And so you're definitely seeing a ton of the puzzle

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Speaker 1: pieces starting to fit together, and it's really starting the

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Speaker 1: picture starting to look a whole lot like David, you

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Speaker 1: know what, Chief, you know what? I know that you're

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Speaker 1: just being kind to Daryl Cohen because I don't need

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Speaker 1: every piece of the puzzle to figure out it's a

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Speaker 1: picture of the Eiffel Tower. Oh absolutely, I mean I

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Speaker 1: got enough right now. And when Daryl Cohen attacked my

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Speaker 1: right rat theory, I smell a rat. When you smell

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Speaker 1: a rat, that means there is a rat, but the

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Speaker 1: rat has gotten away. Absolutely if you can't see it,

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Speaker 1: but there is a rat, and that's when you bring

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Speaker 1: in the exterminator. So right now the cops know something

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Speaker 1: is horribly wrong. They got a slow start on this investigation.

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Speaker 1: Larry Autman was beside himself trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: was happening. Finally he lights a fire under the police

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Speaker 1: rear ends and the case is now in full swing

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Speaker 1: and they start digging. Take a listen to our friend

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Speaker 1: at forty eight hours, Richard Schlessinger. In two thousand and five,

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Speaker 1: Vians was arrested for selling marijuana, and it was not

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Speaker 1: his first arrest. Manatee County Detective Randy Barnett and DA

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Speaker 1: agent Derek Pollock worked on the Florida case. He was

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Speaker 1: convicted in Vermont for distribution of cocaine in nineteen three.

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Speaker 1: The police sat Vans down and asked for his help

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Speaker 1: to break up the drug ring. He was an agent

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Speaker 1: stream to work with. He returned calls. He was there

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Speaker 1: for every deal that we needed for him to be

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Speaker 1: there for, and he was on time. Vans was sentenced

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Speaker 1: to just one year in prison, and in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight, he and Dawn headed to Lomita. What Dana

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Speaker 1: did you have any idea that Dawn Yea was dating

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Speaker 1: a doper. Yes, we found out pretty quickly that he

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Speaker 1: had been arrested and was awaiting jail time. Holy moly,

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Speaker 1: I mean, in the big scheme of things, were the

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Speaker 1: cases that you and I have handled in the past,

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen. Thank god we're on two different sides of

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Speaker 1: the fence. But I mean, you know, pot people don't

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Speaker 1: even sneeze at a bag of pot anymore. But this

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Speaker 1: guy was convicted of selling cocaine. That's a whole other

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Speaker 1: can of worms. Then he turns a minute, then he

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Speaker 1: turns into a snitch, a snitch. He was such a

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Speaker 1: great snitch, such a so convincing as a snitch. They

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Speaker 1: say he was a quote dream Si dream confidential informant.

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Speaker 1: He got a sweetheart ideal one year behind bars because

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Speaker 1: he was such a great liar, a snitch. You know,

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Speaker 1: snitches get stitches. My son just said that the other day.

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Speaker 1: Fancy what, oh, come on a problem. You have to

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Speaker 1: because without those confidential informants slash snitches, you don't make cases.

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Speaker 1: And we don't know how much cocaine he was convicted

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Speaker 1: or he played guilty, still sold it. It might have

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Speaker 1: been just a small amount. If he's sold from an ounce,

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Speaker 1: there has to be a brick somewhere, yeah, but doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily meet. It's in his hand, his house, his place

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Speaker 1: of business, or his car. He may have gotten it

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Speaker 1: from someone else. He's convicted of selling cocaine and Dana,

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Speaker 1: how much of his history did you know about in

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Speaker 1: the beginning? Not as much thing It's only took a

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Speaker 1: couple of years for more serious things to come to late.

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Speaker 1: Oh I know is if my sister we're dating a doper,

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Speaker 1: I would trylight hell to get her to break up

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Speaker 1: based on just what I know from being in the

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Speaker 1: crime business for so long. But whether Dawn knew the

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Speaker 1: full extent of his background, we may never know. The

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Speaker 1: investigation goes on. Listen to Richard's Slessinger. David Finns was

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Speaker 1: now a person of interest. When you introduced yourself as

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Garcia from the La County Sheriff's Homicide Division, how

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Speaker 1: did he react? He immediately turned white. He was a

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Speaker 1: loss for words here. And I called him right over

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Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, there's something that

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Speaker 1: you need to tell me. David Vinns was now a

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Speaker 1: person of interest. When you introduced yourself as Sergeant Garcia

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Speaker 1: from the La County Sheriff's Homicide Division, how did he react?

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Speaker 1: He immediately turned white. He was a loss for words here,

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Speaker 1: and I called him right over and I was like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, there's something that you need to tell

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Speaker 1: me too. Joseph's Goot Morgan death investigator, professor forensics, Jackson

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Speaker 1: State University, author and TV star. Your resume is getting

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Speaker 1: white too on for me to say the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, My question is why do people turn white?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't really completely understand why people turn

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Speaker 1: and red, but I get that the blood rushes to

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Speaker 1: your face. But why do people I guess both of those.

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Speaker 1: Why do you turn red when you're embarrassed or flummox

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Speaker 1: or your face gets hot? But why do people turn

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Speaker 1: Why is it the blood drains from their face? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's a literary device has been used for years

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Speaker 1: and years in the Nancy just idea that you know,

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Speaker 1: when you turn red, you become flushed. You know, this

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Speaker 1: vascular reaction that you have. And conversely, this can happen

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Speaker 1: when you're faced with kind of a shocking moment, you know,

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Speaker 1: And we've heard this for years and years. People have

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Speaker 1: a sensation that their blood runs cold. I meany times

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Speaker 1: have you heard that over the years, And most of

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Speaker 1: the time it's almost like it's this physiological response to

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Speaker 1: something very, very troubling, something horrific. It's almost a primal response.

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Speaker 1: If you will, do you, Doctor Debbie Joffey Ellis, Psychologists,

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Speaker 1: Adjunct Professor, Columbia University. I guess you're going to tell

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Speaker 1: me there could be any number of reasons someone's face

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Speaker 1: goes white. That's correct, Nancy's correct. It's true that these

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Speaker 1: micro involuntary kind of physical reactions can say a lot,

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Speaker 1: and they certainly can indicate at the very least some

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Speaker 1: discomfort within the person. But really we can't without solid

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Speaker 1: evidence safe for sure this or this or this is

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Speaker 1: the reason maybe need to go to the toilet and

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Speaker 1: didn't have time. I mean, I'm saying that lightly, but

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Speaker 1: we don't know unless there's solid evidence. But indeed there's

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Speaker 1: some discomfort within that. To doctor Ellis, whenever you do,

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Speaker 1: if ever get tired of being a psychologist, even though

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Speaker 1: you have this incredibly fancy job at Columbia University, you'd

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Speaker 1: make a great defense attorney because I've never ever and

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Speaker 1: I'm sadly dear Old co when the defense attorney he's

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Speaker 1: gonna probably use this in its next closing. Oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: they didn't turn white because they were shocked or afraid.

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Speaker 1: They just had to go take a poop. That's all

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Speaker 1: that was. So you know, don't be convinced. Now, let

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Speaker 1: me remind you, doctor Debbie that the jury is the

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Speaker 1: sole judge of the facts and the evidence and the law.

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Speaker 1: And I guarantee you if they heard that David Vin's

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Speaker 1: face went white when a detective knocks on the door,

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Speaker 1: I'll huh. Okay, Now this is what it's called, and no,

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Speaker 1: thanks to you, Joe Scott Morgan. It's called blanching. When

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Speaker 1: you're suddenly frightened or you have some emotional shot, it

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Speaker 1: can cause blanching as the blood is shunted away from

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Speaker 1: the skin and including the skin on the face. I've

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Speaker 1: just learned this in preparation to cross examine Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 1: Your face can turn pale in dangerous situations because your

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Speaker 1: body starts sending blood from non critical areas like your

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Speaker 1: face to where it's needed the most. In other words,

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Speaker 1: fight or flight. I like when you see a dog

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Speaker 1: chasing you, your face could could turn pale because your

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Speaker 1: body immediately sends blood to the parts of your body

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Speaker 1: like your legs and arms where it's needed, so you

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Speaker 1: can run and pump your arms. That is what scientists say.

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Speaker 1: It invokes the fight or flight response in your body.

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Speaker 1: And that goes way back to our caveman ancestors, Joe Scott.

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Speaker 1: Have I finally taught you something for once in all

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Speaker 1: the years. Oh Jackie, please save this tape. I am

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Speaker 1: so happy. So that's what I learned. When I heard

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Speaker 1: that his face drained white. I investigated, and it brought

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Speaker 1: on flight or flight And that's not just a term

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Speaker 1: of speech. Listen, he said, I don't want to talk

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Speaker 1: about it here. We need to leave. He just kept

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Speaker 1: saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and I kept saying, you know, how,

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Speaker 1: how could you let something like this happen? And I

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Speaker 1: was just like, I can't believe you. Right to me,

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Speaker 1: So I didn't hear that morning monitoring traffic, it seemed

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Speaker 1: like the cop was right here. I started, you know,

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Speaker 1: like flagging him down. We were just we were hauling.

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Speaker 1: I immediately pulled out behind them. He was going quite

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Speaker 1: fast and had no intention of stopping. I remember coming

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Speaker 1: up on this curve. That's where I said I don't

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Speaker 1: want to die. If there was any doubt about David

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Speaker 1: Vin's murdering his young wife, Dawn, it doesn't end there,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Gray's killers amongst us, signing off goodbye friends,