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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you from House toupp

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Christen and I'm Caroline, and listeners, we gotta be honest

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Speaker 1: with you. This episode that we're about to do focusing

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Speaker 1: on the straight up racist stereotype of the welfare queen,

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Speaker 1: did not start. As you know, we didn't start out

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Speaker 1: intending to do this episode. Now. We intended to do

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Speaker 1: an episode looking at women and social work, which will

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Speaker 1: do eventually. Oh yeah, we're gonna revisit because it is

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Speaker 1: just a rich topic full of amazing, forward thinking, innovative

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Speaker 1: women such as Jane Adams, you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: really founders of social work. Um. But first of all,

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Speaker 1: as we started researching, he realized, oh, this is the huge,

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Speaker 1: a huge topic who hard hard to pack into one episode.

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Speaker 1: And then it just so happened that as we were

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Speaker 1: researching this, the twenty anniversary of so called welfare reform

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Speaker 1: came and went, and with that, um, this term, the stigmatizing,

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Speaker 1: awful term welfare queen came up. And so since welfare

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Speaker 1: queens that that stereotype, that controlling image, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk more about what that exactly means, since it

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Speaker 1: encapsulates so much of the stigma against welfare and even

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Speaker 1: social work in general. UM, we felt like it was

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Speaker 1: worth just focusing in on this because you have so

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Speaker 1: many intersections of race and gender and class and the

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Speaker 1: on going issue of poverty and motherhood and and who's

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Speaker 1: considered a worthy citizen and who's not yes, yes, the

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Speaker 1: whole rhetoric of deserving versus undeserving poor, And there's there's

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Speaker 1: so much, so much just embedded racism and classism that

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Speaker 1: is stitched up with all of this. UM. So we're

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Speaker 1: going to try to entangle some of that um and

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Speaker 1: hopefully not get too caught up in all of the

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Speaker 1: admittedly confusing bureaucracy that can quickly overtake. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 1: just going to devolve into us screaming the F word

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Speaker 1: a lot. Uh, So, let's go back to welfare reform quickly. So.

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Speaker 1: August two thousand sixteen marked the twenty anniversary of so

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Speaker 1: called welfare reform h This was a key piece of

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Speaker 1: legislation that President Bill Clinton signed into law. It was

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Speaker 1: the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, and it replaced

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Speaker 1: old school welfare a k A aid to families with

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Speaker 1: dependent children. And so now in lieu of that, welfare

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Speaker 1: doesn't really exist anymore. A lot of people might not

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Speaker 1: know that welfare is now what's called temporary assistance for

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Speaker 1: needy families. Yeah, I mean, there were some good intentions

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Speaker 1: behind this. The idea was to connect poor families with

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Speaker 1: employment so that they wouldn't need welfare, and it also

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Speaker 1: connect them to programs like job training and child care

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Speaker 1: and other support. I mean that sounds great, like what

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Speaker 1: could go wrong? Um? And and you know this, this

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Speaker 1: shift did cut the welfare recipients in half by the

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Speaker 1: year two thousand to just six point three million people

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Speaker 1: receiving it, down from the peak of fourteen point two

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Speaker 1: million people. And yeah, I mean a lot of millions.

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Speaker 1: In fact, a lot of low income single mothers in

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Speaker 1: particular have found work and taking care of their families

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Speaker 1: thanks to food stamp pro programs and the Earned income

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Speaker 1: tax credit. But there are some not so great realities

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Speaker 1: that are behind all of this. Yeah. And you have

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind too that in ninety six when

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Speaker 1: Clinton signed this legislation, the economy was going like gangbusters. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that was one reason why you see within a

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Speaker 1: four year period after it's signed into law. This major

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Speaker 1: uptick in the employment of low income single moms UM,

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Speaker 1: but definitely with influence from the Great Recession happening. You

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Speaker 1: have really controversial aspects of UH tent, that temporary assistance

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Speaker 1: for needy families that was controversial at the time. I

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Speaker 1: mean a lot of people, a lot of feminists and

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Speaker 1: activists protested it because they felt like it was too

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Speaker 1: punitive and didn't address more systemic problems of poverty UM

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Speaker 1: and and the t in tent is temporary because us

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Speaker 1: the lifetime limit on benefits is five years, so unlike

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Speaker 1: welfare that you could potentially stay on and definitely if

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Speaker 1: you needed it UM, this has that limit. And you

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Speaker 1: also have problems with TAMPA recipients having a hard time

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Speaker 1: finding and keeping jobs. That job training is a required

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Speaker 1: part of being of receiving that assistance, and going to

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Speaker 1: the job training though, can mean losing jobs that mother's

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Speaker 1: often women often already have. But one major wrinkle in

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Speaker 1: how this legislation is architected is a it has not

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Speaker 1: kept up with inflation. Republicans actually vetoed that UM, so

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Speaker 1: you have funding down in general UM and also you

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Speaker 1: have being dispersed through state block grants, which means that

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Speaker 1: Uncle Sam or Aunt Samanthos veminous podcast. I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 1: It can be Uncle Sam um writes a check and

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Speaker 1: it's like, okay, Louisiana, here you go, here is your

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Speaker 1: your federal funding, and Louisiana can then decide or whatever

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Speaker 1: state we're in, you can then decide how they want

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Speaker 1: to split up that cash. And I called it Louisiana

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Speaker 1: because there only four percent of poor families receive TAMP,

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Speaker 1: six thousand families, a tiny, tiny, tiny group of people,

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Speaker 1: because only eight percent of its welfare federal welfare grants

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Speaker 1: are used on cash benefits and only one percent are

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Speaker 1: used on jobs programs. So the rest is just being diverted. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's being diverted to other programs, to administrative costs. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's not like they can take that money and build

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Speaker 1: like roads and bridges instead, Um, But there are so

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Speaker 1: many other types of programs that they can in ways

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Speaker 1: that they can move that money around because of so

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Speaker 1: many budget cuts um that started really with the Great Recession.

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Speaker 1: It is up to you know, the states to decide

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Speaker 1: how much they really how much they really want to

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Speaker 1: invest in these communities. Yeah, So on average in the US,

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Speaker 1: about fifty of these grants are argused on actual benefits

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Speaker 1: job training, in childcare, and thirty are spent elsewhere. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's this weird side of things where only families with

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Speaker 1: children living in poverty received tamp um, and overall poverty

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Speaker 1: and deep poverty is higher than it was. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, one reason why you have such a low

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Speaker 1: proportion of those emily is receiving this assistance is because

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Speaker 1: during this time you also have a lot more funding

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Speaker 1: going to SNAP, which is the food stamps program. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you also have the Earned Income Tax Credit, which

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Speaker 1: has been really helpful for a lot of UM working

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Speaker 1: families and poverty. But there's that issue of deep poverty,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty much equivalent to living on two dollars

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Speaker 1: a day. So am I wrong in feeling like it

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Speaker 1: seems like things are just shifted where instead of saying

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Speaker 1: like here's this um little sack of money, we're just

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Speaker 1: gonna take that money and put it into other areas

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Speaker 1: rather than just helping you. And some of it will

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Speaker 1: go to childcare things, and some of it will go

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Speaker 1: to food stamps, but yeah, and some goes to funding

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Speaker 1: things like Headstart programs which are really important, but there's

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Speaker 1: still that issue of jobs and um helping also helping

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Speaker 1: low income single mothers pursue higher education, you know. I

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Speaker 1: mean there's just there's just a lot that isn't accounted

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Speaker 1: for consistently. Yeah, Because while it's great to fund something

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Speaker 1: like Headstart, I mean our mothers well and fathers too,

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Speaker 1: but our families not struggling to like buy backpacks and

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Speaker 1: markers for their kids to go back to school exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean there have been a lot of uh stories

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Speaker 1: recently because of the twentieth anniversary kind of evaluating whether

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Speaker 1: welfare reform, so to speak, really reformed much. And one

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Speaker 1: of the NPR stories was talking to a mother who

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Speaker 1: uh you know, receives assistance, she lives in a homeless shelter,

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Speaker 1: and she can still, you know, barely afford to buy

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Speaker 1: her kids, uh just back to school supplies that they

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Speaker 1: might need. Um. So this is already really contradicting to

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Speaker 1: this racist portrayal of the welfare queen where it's like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, people are just sitting back just getting their

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Speaker 1: government checks and living high on the hog, when of

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Speaker 1: course that's not the case at all. But also what

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Speaker 1: you have here too is the product of highly polarized

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Speaker 1: political system where for years now Republicans UM have used

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Speaker 1: a lot of dog whistle politics, UM, talking about talking

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Speaker 1: down about so called entitlement programs and how you know

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Speaker 1: taxpayers are just you know, paying for all of these things.

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Speaker 1: What do you think social Security is? We're gonna get that.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get to that. Can't wait. Um. And

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Speaker 1: if Hillary Clinton is elected president, it is gonna be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see what happens on the welfare front, because

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Speaker 1: she has been asked about this a lot on the

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Speaker 1: campaign trail, because of course Bill Clinton signed this controversial legislation,

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Speaker 1: and in interviews in the nine nineties, she was very

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Speaker 1: explicit to about reforms to welfare and saying that basically

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Speaker 1: people needed to bootstrap better. Yeah, and one important aspect

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Speaker 1: of Tampa is that it did pivot attention more to jobs,

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Speaker 1: connecting you know, recipients straight to jobs. But obviously it

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Speaker 1: hasn't done a terrific job with that, and she's acknowledged

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Speaker 1: that too in more recent interviews, saying like, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: need to reevaluate what's going on, and for today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we are really going to focus on the stigmatizing of

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Speaker 1: low income black single mothers, usually on public assistance, and

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Speaker 1: sort of how all of this hot mess came to

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Speaker 1: be because, like you said, this like relates to this

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Speaker 1: old school idea of the deserving versus the undeserving poor.

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Speaker 1: You have racialized divisions between social insurance, which is social

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Speaker 1: security and unemployment insurance that rewards work versus welfare or

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Speaker 1: public assistance that has stigmatized unemployment. Well, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: the whole social insurance thing. Recipients aren't scrutinized. It was

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Speaker 1: originally intended for white male workers in their wives a

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Speaker 1: k a. Citizens, And how we treat them versus welfare,

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Speaker 1: which stigmatizes unemployment. Recipients are heavily scrutinized and stereotyped is irresponsible.

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Speaker 1: They have to go through judgmental case workers, and they

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Speaker 1: are viewed in this light as more like subjects of

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Speaker 1: the government versus you know, active citizens of the country. Well,

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Speaker 1: and that makes sense, unfortunately, because a lot of these

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Speaker 1: programs and the predecessors to these programs begin developing right

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Speaker 1: on the heels of abolition, where you have you know,

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Speaker 1: African Americans who are fighting truth and nail for full citizenship.

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Speaker 1: Especially women of color, who are facing double discrimination everywhere

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Speaker 1: they turn. UM. And when we look at this so

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Speaker 1: called welfare queen, it is a racist, sexist, controlling image

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Speaker 1: that perpetuates the myth that African American single mothers are

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Speaker 1: receiving government assistance because they are lazy, they're promiscuous, and

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Speaker 1: they're just morally bankrupt fraudsters who are swindling hardworking taxpayers

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Speaker 1: and perpetuating this so called culture of poverty. UM. And

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Speaker 1: I call it a controlling image rather than a stereotype,

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Speaker 1: because that's what sociologist Patricia Hill Collins, who's a badass,

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Speaker 1: calls it, because the controlling image is a stereotype that

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Speaker 1: is so strong that it exerts control not only over

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Speaker 1: the people that it allegedly represents, but it's also used

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Speaker 1: as justification to discriminate against them. And I have a

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Speaker 1: vocabulary question really quickly for social workers who are listening

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Speaker 1: to this episode, because we are using welfare and public

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Speaker 1: assistance interchangeably, and I don't know if that is accurate,

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Speaker 1: if that language is correct, So if someone can let

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Speaker 1: me know, Like, it's not something that came up explicitly

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Speaker 1: in our research, but I have a feeling that welfare

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Speaker 1: refers to something like programmatically different than public assistance. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I wish I could tell you. I know.

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Speaker 1: That's why I'm asking for social workers to let me know,

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Speaker 1: I mean. And this is also just a heads up

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Speaker 1: that we are aware that our language might not be precise. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: This book by Patricia Hill Collins Black Feminist Thought, was

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Speaker 1: such an instructive look at the issues of race and

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Speaker 1: class and sexism that come up in these discussions about welfare.

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Speaker 1: Um because you got the welfare mother whose this is

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Speaker 1: basically the bad mother stereotype that became the welfare queen

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Speaker 1: that we here talked about in the media. And this

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Speaker 1: is basically a stereotype that's like the stereotype of the mammy,

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Speaker 1: but she's even lazier. And that goes back to what

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Speaker 1: Christian was talking earlier about the controlling image, because this

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Speaker 1: stereotyping of black people as lazy provides the ideological justification,

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Speaker 1: as Collins writes, for efforts to harness black women's fertility

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Speaker 1: to the needs of a changing political economy. This goes

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Speaker 1: back to I believe it was our Mother's of Gynecology

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Speaker 1: episode where we talked about how when black people were enslaved. Uh,

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Speaker 1: slave owners were like, yes, produce more offspring so that

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Speaker 1: we can get more slaves. But as soon as slavery

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Speaker 1: as an institution is ended, oh god, black people having

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Speaker 1: children is something to be stopped. We have to control

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Speaker 1: black women's fertility well. And it also hearkens to our

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Speaker 1: episode on the sterilization for African American women, particularly in

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Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties. So, I mean, when we talk

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Speaker 1: about reproductive rights, it's so critical that we remember that

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Speaker 1: historically in the United States, Black women's fertility and motherhood

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Speaker 1: has been something that for so long was almost not

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Speaker 1: their own, you know, in terms of the whether it's

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Speaker 1: a slave owner trying controlling it or uh doctor forcibly

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Speaker 1: sterilizing them. And this is all why when we think

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Speaker 1: about reproductive rights, it's so critical to take an intersectional

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Speaker 1: approach because historically in the United States, Black women's fertility

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Speaker 1: and motherhood have continually been under siege. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: so rarely hasn't been something that is so prized and

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Speaker 1: protected in the way that it is and has been

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Speaker 1: for white women. Correct. So if we look at then

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Speaker 1: the welfare Queen as Patricia Hill Collins describes it. Um.

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Speaker 1: She calls it a controlling image that points to working

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Speaker 1: class Black women as really the symptoms of our deteriorating state.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's they're just scapegoats over and over and

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Speaker 1: over again for what is bigger picture, a lot of

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Speaker 1: institutionalized racism, institutionalized racism as it intersects with our anxieties

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Speaker 1: about the state of society and our economy. But I

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Speaker 1: thought this point that Collins made about the welfare queen

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Speaker 1: stereotype or controlling image was so perfect and on the nose.

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Speaker 1: She said that she's typically portrayed as an unwed mother,

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Speaker 1: and she violates one cardinal tenant of white male dominating ideology.

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Speaker 1: She is a woman alone. As a result, her treatment

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Speaker 1: reinforces the dominant gender ideology, positing that a woman's true

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Speaker 1: worth and financial security should occur through heterosexual marriage. And

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Speaker 1: that dominant gender ideology was baked into the social work structure,

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Speaker 1: like the the the initial welfare structure. Um. And we're

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Speaker 1: going to get into more of that, and it's the

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Speaker 1: reason why, you know, we have a lot of these

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Speaker 1: issues today. But if we dig a little bit deeper

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Speaker 1: into these stereotypes, we came across a paper on Black

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Speaker 1: Womanhood and Social Policy, which uh links the welfare queen

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Speaker 1: rhetoric to tropes of the mammy as you've already mentioned,

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Speaker 1: and also sapphire and Jezebel. Um. So you have that claim,

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Speaker 1: that stereotypical claim that welfare mothers are unmarried and they

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Speaker 1: tend to have a lot of children, they don't want

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Speaker 1: to work, they lack moral character and have just abandoned

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Speaker 1: traditional family values and quotes and so um. This scholar

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Speaker 1: notes how in the nineteen eighties you have the welfare

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Speaker 1: queen hearkening that mammy trope with her presumed obesity that

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Speaker 1: signaled her laziness, but at the same time abundant food choices,

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Speaker 1: the whole idea of like, well, she's just you know,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't have to work, but she can still just

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Speaker 1: like sit around and eat whatever she wants all day,

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Speaker 1: which is of course then related to the whole food

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Speaker 1: stamps stereotypes that we get that you're just using your

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Speaker 1: food stamps to buy there's either the stereotype that you're

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Speaker 1: just using your food stamps to buy like cheetahs and coke,

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Speaker 1: or you're using them to buy lobster and you know,

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Speaker 1: fancy steak dinners, and then in the nineties, as the

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Speaker 1: public face of welfare shifted to a quote young inner

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Speaker 1: city teenage mother that hearkens to the Sapphire trope of

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Speaker 1: the hyper sexualized black woman who is just driven by

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Speaker 1: her libido with no interest in child rearing. And as

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Speaker 1: a paper notes, both of these stereotypes project poor black

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Speaker 1: women as unfit mothers, breeders of lustful sons, and unchased daughters,

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Speaker 1: so basically saying that it's black women's fault that they

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Speaker 1: are creating children like this, and these children then learn

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Speaker 1: these horrible habits from them and don't want to break

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Speaker 1: out of this cycle of poverty and food stamp use.

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Speaker 1: It's basically blaming the people in the system for both

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Speaker 1: creating poverty and like benefiting from poverty, and it harps

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Speaker 1: on so many racialized spears when you look at the

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Speaker 1: politics of it and how um conservatives will then accuse

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Speaker 1: liberals of also perpetuating a system because we're just all

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Speaker 1: about you know, high taxes and entitlements and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: as a result, our workforce is just deteriorating. UM. And

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Speaker 1: this leads us to a plot twist, because here comes

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan in nineteen seventy six, and Ronald Reagan really

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Speaker 1: made Welfare Queen a household term. Yeah. She was a

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Speaker 1: central character in his stump speeches of nineteen seventy six,

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Speaker 1: and he talks about how in Chicago they found this

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Speaker 1: woman who holds the record. He said that she used

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Speaker 1: eighty names, thirty addresses, fifteen telephone numbers to collect food Stamp,

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Speaker 1: Social Security of Veterans, benefits for non existent deceased veteran husbands,

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Speaker 1: as well as welfare and uh, the big, most often

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Speaker 1: cited moment of these speeches is that when he tells

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Speaker 1: the audience that her tax free cash income alone has

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Speaker 1: been running up to a hundred and fifty dollars a year,

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Speaker 1: there's a gasp from the audience. They're horrified, who is

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Speaker 1: this terrible woman? And I mean, what is what Reagan

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Speaker 1: is doing here is dog whistling that you know the

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Speaker 1: Welfare Queen is. We we know who you're talking about.

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Speaker 1: We know that you are implying that she is low income,

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Speaker 1: that she's African American, and that she is a single mother,

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Speaker 1: and that she's everywhere. You know, there's just this this

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Speaker 1: one just happens to stand out but all these women

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Speaker 1: are just fraudulent. They're driving their Cadillacs to go pick

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Speaker 1: up their welfare check. That's always the thing, that is

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Speaker 1: always the thing whenever you hear people not even like

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Speaker 1: citing Ronald Reagan or citing this period in history when

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Speaker 1: this was talked about all the time, it's always the

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Speaker 1: stereotype of the woman in fur coats and in a Cadillac.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like it's entered our subconscious as a country

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Speaker 1: that we just stereotype all of these people as that woman,

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Speaker 1: all of the people who have ever needed money or

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Speaker 1: financial assistance of any kind. Well, how dare a woman

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Speaker 1: of color indulged in conspicuous consumption? You know you're about

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Speaker 1: to tip over some you know, societal balance if that's

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Speaker 1: the case. Well, the funny thing about the whole welfare

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Speaker 1: queen stereotype, especially with Ronald Reagan relaying the story, is

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Speaker 1: that this character that he's citing is based on a

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Speaker 1: real person. And we don't mean that in the way

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Speaker 1: of like the hater's meaning of like, oh, this woman's everywhere,

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Speaker 1: all these welfare recipients in their fur coats. But the

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Speaker 1: welfare queen, with all of these different identities. Uh, that

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Speaker 1: term was actually coined by a journalist who was covering

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Speaker 1: an actual woman. Yeah. And the thing is, like today

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Speaker 1: a lot of people will say, oh, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: that is obviously racist rhetoric that Ronald Reagan was using.

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Speaker 1: And that's totally true. I mean he was he was

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Speaker 1: gunning for white votes, um. And he was successful, not

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Speaker 1: in seventy six, but he was successful in Night with that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But the fact or fiction doesn't even matter. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's besides the point now, because those two words were

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Speaker 1: so successful at encapsulating all and stoking all of the

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Speaker 1: racist and classist anxieties of these usually more working class

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Speaker 1: white people. And we're going to get into who that

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Speaker 1: real woman was, um, but also how all of this

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Speaker 1: happened in the first place, how we got to nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy six with the gipper talking about welfare queens around

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Speaker 1: the country. When we come right back from a quick break,

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Speaker 1: so before we introduce you to that Chicago woman with

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Speaker 1: all of those different fake names, uh, we want to

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Speaker 1: offer a little welfare plus women history because surprise, welfare

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Speaker 1: as we think of it was initially set up for

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Speaker 1: white women, and it was set up for white women

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Speaker 1: not to get jobs, but to stay home and take

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Speaker 1: care of children, thus fulfilling their proper feminine duties of

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Speaker 1: child rearing and domestic caretaking. Yeah, because you still, you know,

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Speaker 1: if if a white man dies, Uh, you have to

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Speaker 1: be able to provide the breadwinner salary for the woman

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Speaker 1: to enable her to preserve her sphere, to stay at

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Speaker 1: home with the children, cooking and baking and mothering, because

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Speaker 1: God forbids who leaves the house and get a job.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the attitudes were not extended to Black women

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Speaker 1: who were expected. It was just expected that they would

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Speaker 1: be working outside the house. Well because their their bodies,

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Speaker 1: especially at that time, had for so long just been

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Speaker 1: rendered vessels of labor. You know, whether it is them

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Speaker 1: themselves working or um, if they are enslaved owners wanting

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Speaker 1: them to get pregnant so that they could then you know,

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Speaker 1: produce more laborers. Which is all just really disgusting when

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Speaker 1: you think about it all at once. Um. And this

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Speaker 1: is something that Gary Delgado and Rebecca Gordon write about

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Speaker 1: in the book From Poverty to Punishment, How welfare reform

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Speaker 1: punishes the poor uh, And they say, quote, at first,

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Speaker 1: welfare is based on a specific if unarticulated ideology of gender,

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Speaker 1: roles and race, and they go on to talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know how the idea is that white women's primary

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Speaker 1: responsibility is child rearing and unpaid domestic labor, whereas white

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Speaker 1: dudes job is to be family breadwinners. And so with

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Speaker 1: the introduction of welfare, they right, the government assumed financial

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Speaker 1: responsibility when no other breadwinner was available. White widows were

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Speaker 1: cast as quote deserving damsels in distress. Yeah, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of this goes back to the progressive era with

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Speaker 1: which I have a love hate relationship. Progressive area you

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Speaker 1: get a lot of really badass ladies coming out who

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Speaker 1: were like advocating for the marginalized and want to change

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Speaker 1: the world and get the vote and all this stuff.

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Speaker 1: You also get a lot of that bootstrapping rhetoric of like,

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Speaker 1: poor people are poor because they're poor, and it's their

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Speaker 1: fault for being poor because they're poor, and and because

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Speaker 1: of poverty they lack character and we just need to

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Speaker 1: teach some character. Yeah. So, love hate relationship with that era. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so if you go back to the Civil War,

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Speaker 1: for instance, about six dred and twenty thousand men were killed,

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Speaker 1: which left behind a lot of white widows that presumably

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Speaker 1: needed to be cared for so that they could maintain

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Speaker 1: their hearth and home status. Basically yeah, and at this

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Speaker 1: time any kind of assistance would have come from charitable organizations,

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Speaker 1: religious organizations. Um. I mean, historically single mothers would have

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Speaker 1: been taken care of by the church. And after the

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Speaker 1: Civil War you also have massive industrialization and urbanization that

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Speaker 1: leads to an uptick in uh, out of wedlock pregnancies.

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Speaker 1: So in response, you have all of these like pretty

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Speaker 1: well meaning white Progressive era women who are advocating for

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Speaker 1: what's called maternalist legislation essentially, you know, setting up mother's

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Speaker 1: aid programs um and and trying to figure out whether

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Speaker 1: the government could possibly help sort of fill in gaps

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Speaker 1: where private philanthropy and charity leaves off. But it's important

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Speaker 1: to remember that these progressive era women, while they lived

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Speaker 1: in the so called progressive era, we're not so progressive

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Speaker 1: in terms of their perception of the proper role for

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Speaker 1: women and the intended outcome of mother's aid because they

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Speaker 1: weren't saying, you know, let's let's give these women the

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Speaker 1: resources that they need in order to allow them to

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Speaker 1: support themselves and their children, but rather, let's give them

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Speaker 1: the support they need so that they can fulfill traditional

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Speaker 1: gender roles. Well. Yeah, and I mean so this is

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Speaker 1: where my love hate comes in, because these elitist progressive

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Speaker 1: era women might have managed to mobilize disenfranchised women and

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Speaker 1: spur legislators to act on behalf of you know, mothers, um,

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Speaker 1: but they relied on these fundamentalist notions of gender and

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Speaker 1: the patriarchal family norm, and therefore, through their efforts, were

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Speaker 1: basically trying to exert social control on poor immigrant families.

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Speaker 1: Not just fellow white lady these, but immigrant families as well.

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Speaker 1: Of course, not black families, just poor immigrant families where

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Speaker 1: I guess they thought the black families were beyond help. Um,

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Speaker 1: And hey, these people need to conform to American standards,

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Speaker 1: so like we need to support them so that they're

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Speaker 1: not living in that immigrant poverty and in the meantime

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Speaker 1: get them to completely integrate into American society. Yeah. And

429
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: and of course, providing resources and assistance for white immigrant

430
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: women is not the problem here. The problem here is

431
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: that their definition of a suitable home uh necessarily included

432
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: white skin color and completely overlooked black women. But you

433
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: also have during this era, a lot of black women

434
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: reformers who are noticing all of this and are obviously

435
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: like engaged in their communities, and what they're doing during

436
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: this time is advocating for assistance for working mothers instead

437
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: of fostering economic dependence on men, as well as advocating

438
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: for household work to be considered work not just maternal compulsion. Yeah,

439
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: didn't they. I can't remember what organization it was, but

440
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: it was like a working women's organization, and the these

441
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 1: activists invited mothers and housewives to be a part of

442
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: it because they recognize that the work you do at

443
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: home is work, and also to think about how domestic

444
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: labor paid. Domestic labor was one of the only jobs

445
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: available to working class Black women at the time as

446
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: well working in white homes. So all sorts of layers

447
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: to this. And when we get to ninety nine, uh,

448
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: the landmark White House Conference on the Care of Dependent

449
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: Children takes place, and this is essentially the first meeting

450
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: of charitable organizations and philanthropists coming in saying like, Okay,

451
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: we have this issue, especially in terms of urbanization, with

452
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: mothers living in poverty, and really the only option right

453
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: now is for those women to put their kids in orphanages.

454
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: That's what happened. You might have had a foster care

455
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: system that was starting to develop, but really the go

456
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: to was an orphanage. And then uh, indigent women and

457
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: men might live in alms houses where the living conditions

458
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: were just deplorable. And Illinois, though, really led the charge

459
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: in terms of government assistants because in nineteen eleven it

460
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: became the first state to pass a mother's pension law,

461
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: which authorized county governments to provide grants to mothers with

462
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: dependent children. And this really caught on. By nineteen nineteen,

463
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: you have thirty nine states that are providing these with restrictions. Yeah,

464
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: I mean, some restricted grants to widows only, um, others

465
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: offered money to divorce or deserted mothers. Only Michigan and

466
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: Nebraska offered this support to unwed mothers. And really surprising

467
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: to no one is that the Southern states were slow

468
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: to enact these provisions, and these provisions were afforded pretty

469
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 1: much exclusively to white women. Still by just a scant

470
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: three percent of mother's Aid recipients were black. But then

471
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: when the Great Depression rolls around states, mother's aid programs

472
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: run dry. So this is when we get the new deal.

473
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: The federal government steps in, and once it becomes the

474
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 1: poverty becomes such a massive nationwide issue, you do see

475
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: this perspective shift that perhaps the economy and not just

476
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: moral ailing can cause poverty, and so that allows for

477
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:12,360
Speaker 1: the development of an otherwise unpalatable nationwide welfare system hashtag

478
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: deserving poor. Yeah, the idea that, oh, we'll see, that's

479
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: okay if it's because of the economy, like an outside factor.

480
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: But if it's something that you're doing or that we

481
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: perceive you to be doing, then you are hashtag undeserving. Yeah.

482
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: Or if the color of our skin leads us to

483
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: just assume, well exactly, yeah, that you're deviant in the

484
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: first place. Um. So in we have a landmark passage

485
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: of the Social Security Act which included aid to families

486
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: with dependent children, and that essentially was welfare, but it

487
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: was never intended to be a long term, fixed and

488
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,360
Speaker 1: it was certainly not intended to assist black women. Instead,

489
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: these policy architects figured that future male breadwinners would be

490
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 1: paying into Social Security and so when they died, their

491
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: widows would not have to rely on mother's pensions. They

492
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,760
Speaker 1: could then access social Security benefits, and in the meantime

493
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 1: you kind of have the stopgap measure of welfare because

494
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: in the meantime, before the Social Security coffers, you know,

495
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: kind of build up, these white widows can be compensated

496
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 1: for essentially giving birth to future laborers. Here that women,

497
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: you're a bunch of tools breeders. Um. But yeah, I

498
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: mean there was that assumption that all women across the

499
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: board would pursue that moral family ethic of marriage to

500
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: a strong white man who would provide for her and

501
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: then die before her. Yeah. But here we get the

502
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: gendering of public assistance policy where you have social security

503
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: and unemployment insurance that largely benefited white men because there

504
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 1: were far more white men who would be um working

505
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: outside the home at that time than women. And that

506
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: is a fixed entitlement. Yeah, you just get it. You

507
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: deserve it because you're a citizen. Yeah, you deserve it,

508
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: So there's no there's no shame. Yeah. And white widows eventually,

509
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,479
Speaker 1: you know, would be rolled into social Security benefits because

510
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: you deserve it because you're white. Yeah. And and you

511
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: didn't mean to become poor. You couldn't control your husband dying.

512
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: But when it comes to the aid to families with

513
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 1: dependent children that say divorce moms or single moms, low

514
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: income mothers might try to access they had to jump

515
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: through so many hoops not only to get it, but

516
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: also to keep it well. And lest you think that

517
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: all of these black mothers in question were just sitting

518
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: there accepting their poor treatment, there were a lot of

519
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: black activists during this time who were already arguing that

520
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: the investigation of their lives was a violation of citizenship rights.

521
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: And I mean it's important to use words like citizen

522
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: versus subject because again restating what we said earlier, black families,

523
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: particularly black women, were being treated as subjects of a

524
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: government versus members and active participants of it. And it's

525
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how they were treated. And when we

526
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 1: see surveillance like, we're not using hyperbole because these a

527
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: f c D case workers were very interested in recipients

528
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: personal lives. They got to determine who received aid, who

529
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: had a suitable home um to receive that aid, and

530
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: they would also police their sexual activity because they wanted

531
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: to make sure that that family epic was being upheld.

532
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: So I mean it bears repeating yet again that you

533
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: also get that cultural division in between how these programs

534
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: are viewed. Social security, you just get it, and you

535
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: deserve it. It's a thing that you're entitled to, but

536
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 1: let's not call it an entitlement program versus something like

537
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: the welfare program that black mothers were getting, which it

538
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,439
Speaker 1: was like, oh, well, I don't know if you really

539
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 1: deserve this. This is a lot of help we're giving you.

540
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: We better check up on you. And we know how

541
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: hyper sexual women of color can be. I don't know

542
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: that they're really going to be suitable. They're all those

543
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: man of the house regulations where it's like no, no, no, no, ladies,

544
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: you can't have a man over. No, we don't want

545
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: to de incentivize marriage. You've already you're already a single mother.

546
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: So from the nineteen thirties to nineteen sixty two, a

547
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: FDC grew from just a few hundred thousand recipients to

548
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: three point six million by nineteen sixty two. But the

549
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: thing is, black recipients, especially in the South, had to

550
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: fight for it because the federal government was allowing individual

551
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: states to define those eligibility requirements well and down to

552
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: case workers too. Um, there was a paper I was

553
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: looking at about all of this, which noted how ironic

554
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: this program quickly became because it functioned much like a

555
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: private charity because they, you know, a f CD case

556
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: workers were empowered to really pick and choose who received

557
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 1: this aid. And up until the nineteen sixties, households that

558
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: included children of color and children born out of wedlock

559
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: did not meet requirements for suitable home. So isn't that

560
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: so convenient if you don't want to give any assistance

561
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 1: to black mothers? That's kind of a that's a jerk move, says,

562
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: a super jerk move. And so you have I mean

563
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 1: activism saying like this is not okay. You have a

564
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: lot of court cases. Um. And finally you have in

565
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: nineteen six the one a f c D expanding its

566
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: qualifying definition of a of a deprived child to include

567
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: one who has an unemployed parent, which did bring more

568
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,919
Speaker 1: women of color into the program. Um. And it's really

569
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,799
Speaker 1: in the sixties that you start to see a lot

570
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: more UM women receiving this, partly because in ninety four

571
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: LBJ declares the War on Poverty, but also because of

572
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: activism by organizations like the National Welfare Rights Organization, which

573
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: was the first movement to create a distinct political identity

574
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 1: among low income Black women, and that's the group that

575
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: invited mothers to be a part of their ranks because

576
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: their work mattered too. But even within the broader Black community,

577
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: the National Welfare Rights Organization was controversial at times because

578
00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: it was so largely composed of lower income women who

579
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: even among you know, black activists, their voices had been

580
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,919
Speaker 1: often marginalized, especially within the civil rights movement. So yeah,

581
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: around the time that LBJ declares the War on Poverty,

582
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: there is a growing recognition in this country of just

583
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: the the yawning gap between the rich and the poor,

584
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: and just how bad people in poverty in this country

585
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: did have it. Um. But money from this so called

586
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: war on poverty helped fund the food stamp program becoming permanent. Uh.

587
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 1: It established the Headstart program you see free and subsidized

588
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: school breakfasts and lunches. You also get the creation of

589
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: Medicare and Medicaid, which to me, I always am like,

590
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: I just kind of shake my head when people criticize

591
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: recipients of things like welfare because even though it's not

592
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: called welfare anymore, um, because like, are you on medicaid

593
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: in Social Security m And as a result of a

594
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: lot of this, between nineteen sixty four and nineteen seventy six,

595
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: the number of Americans receiving cash assistance. Is that cash

596
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: assistance part that always you know, makes people so uneasy

597
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: or we're just the government is just an a t M.

598
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: The number of Americans receiving cash assistance through a f

599
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: DC nearly tripled from four point to million Americans to

600
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 1: eleven point three million. And this is when white taxpayers

601
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: really start to lose their chill over all of this,

602
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: because of course a lot of those recipients are women

603
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: of color. And what doesn't help is the nineteen sixty

604
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: five publication of what's nicknamed the Moynahan Report, which really

605
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: laid the political foundation for the whole welfare queen construct.

606
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: And the Moynahan Report is the shorthand name for a

607
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaker 1: book called The Negro Family, the Case for National Action,

608
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: written by a dude named Daniel Patrick moynihan, who argued

609
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: that black quote matriarchal structure is the root of deviance

610
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: because these women are too domineering to be nurturers or

611
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: attract mats, thus inspiring low education, delinquency and single motherhood.

612
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: Oh my god, are we were like reliving a horrifically

613
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: nightmarish real life scenario of our romantic comedy episode about

614
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 1: the career woman. Oh god, yeah, too domineering. But isn't

615
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: it so much easier to just blame a really marginalized

616
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: group for this quote unquote culture of poverty then actually

617
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: like fixing the problem just being like, you know what

618
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: it's it's it's these women. It's these women's fault. We're

619
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: never going to hear from them because we never like

620
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 1: validate or elevate their experiences voices. But this is like

621
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: you still see this on Twitter. Our friend, our friend,

622
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: friend of the podcast, Raquel Willis was like always dealing

623
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,839
Speaker 1: with us on Twitter of of men tweeting at her

624
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: about like these independent black women these days. You know,

625
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: they're just not leaving any room for men if you

626
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: stop devaluing men. And it's like, who what? And speaking

627
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: of our rom com series in nine four a what

628
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: can be termed a romantic comedy, I first ran across

629
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: it when we're searching for our episode on romantic comedies

630
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: about people of color. And it's his film Claudine, which

631
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: stars Diane Carroll and James Earl Jones and Diane Carroll

632
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: is Claudine, and she is a single mother of six

633
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: living on welfare, and James Earl Jones comes into her

634
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: life and they fall in love. His name is Roupe,

635
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: I believe. And Diane Carroll is or Claudine is earning

636
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: some money outside the home, which of course is a

637
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: big no no if you are on welfare. And whenever

638
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: the caseworker, the white case worker would come by, she

639
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: would hide any sign of, you know, any extra income

640
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,240
Speaker 1: coming in. UM. One time, the case worker comes over

641
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: and James Earl Jones's character has left like a six

642
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: pack of beer and some food in the fridge, and

643
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: so she docks her um, you know, her welfare check,

644
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, taking off the value of the beer and

645
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: the food. UM. And really it's it's a social commentary

646
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:41,439
Speaker 1: on this trap that welfare became for a lot, a lot,

647
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 1: a lot of single mothers. And there's this quote from

648
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: the movie. Claudine is extremely frustrated and says, if I

649
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: don't feed my kids, it's child neglect. If I go

650
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: out and get a job and make a little money

651
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: on the side, then that's cheating. If I stay at home,

652
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm crazy, I can't win. Yeah, I mean that basically,

653
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: I mean that sums up so many of the issues

654
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: that come up around these programs. Yeah. And two years

655
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,439
Speaker 1: later you have Ronald Reagan making well for a queen

656
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 1: of household term that further arouses more ire against public assistants. Yeah.

657
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 1: So we told you earlier that this welfare queen, so

658
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: to speak, that Ronald Reagan is fighting it was a

659
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: real woman. And there's a fascinating, fascinating long form peace

660
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: over at Slate by Josh Levin introducing readers to this

661
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: woman named Linda Taylor, who was a massive con artist

662
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: and very likely a legitimate psychopath, who used and abused

663
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: and hustled and possibly murdered just through the decades in

664
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: order to get as much money as possible, including stealing

665
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: people's coats. Yeah. Her welfare fraud is a footnote in

666
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: her criminality. Yeah, no, kidding, compared to everything else she did. Yeah.

667
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: And Um, the term, like you said earlier, was coined

668
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: by Chicago Tribune reporter George bliss Um, who was covering

669
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: Taylor's trial. Um and bliss have been trying to draw

670
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: attention to widespread disarray in the Illinois Public Aid Office.

671
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: There was a lot of mismanagement happening. No big surprise.

672
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: When you have giant government bureaucracies. Uh, sometimes you know things,

673
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: things run amok. But that's not a sexy story. Bureaucracy

674
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 1: is not interesting. That's on an interesting headline. And he

675
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: was getting frustrated because no one is paying attention to

676
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: this really important issue until he comes up with the

677
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 1: welfare queen and suddenly, oh, now that we have a face,

678
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: and now that we have this, you know, face that

679
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: has been scapegoat it and objectified for so long. Oh,

680
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: now everyone's paying attention. Well, and the thing is too

681
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: like we also see the alignment in her in this

682
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: Linda Taylor person slash all the fifty million different aliases

683
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: that she went by. We see the alignment of the

684
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 1: welfare queen and blackness. But the thing is, Linda Taylor

685
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 1: specifically was a shape shifter when it came to race,

686
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 1: like according to I mean Josh Levin, like God bless him.

687
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: He went into such heavy, detailed research in terms of

688
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: this woman's life and her background and her story and everything.

689
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 1: And according to the census, when she was a child,

690
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: she was listed as a white girl in a white family,

691
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,760
Speaker 1: but she had darker skin, and they were like, maybe

692
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: it's from some like Native American or black ancestor, were

693
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: not really sure, but basically her skin was dark enough

694
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 1: that she was able to pass a black when it

695
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: was convenient, but also able to pass as white when

696
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: it suited her as well. She even passes Filipino, she

697
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,399
Speaker 1: passes Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not a black or white.

698
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: This is not a black or white to shoe. This

699
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: is like she was passing is whatever she needed to

700
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: pass as in order to steal, in order to take

701
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: advantage of, in order to kidnap. I mean, did all

702
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: of this though, remind you a little bit of Rachel

703
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 1: Dolas All? Oh god, hopefully she's never a kidnapped anyone,

704
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 1: the white woman who claims to be transracial. Um. Yeah,

705
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: I mean we don't even have time to go into. Yeah,

706
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: it's insane all of Taylor's criminality. But I mean, she

707
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: was a con artist. She was a big us said,

708
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: like multiple husbands at a time so that she could

709
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: um so then they could die in quotes and she

710
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: could get government funds for that. She was a kidnapper

711
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: and identity thief um and despite her criminality, though she

712
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: was only convicted on bilking eight thousand dollars of government

713
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: funds in nine and that conviction it just stands in

714
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:15,320
Speaker 1: such stark contrast to the societal impact of Ronald Reagan

715
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 1: spreading her alleged story, you know, and only and only

716
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: focusing in on one aspect of it. But as a result,

717
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: welfare investigations and criminalization for fraud went through the roof.

718
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: If you think that those case workers were scrutinizing wealth

719
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 1: or recipients before that, oh this time because now there

720
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: was a face, there was a bufferred bejeweled face to

721
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 1: go with all of these fears, and they would set

722
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: up in different This was focused more on Chicago, UM,

723
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: but they set up hotlines where people could call in

724
00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: and report folks that they thought were cheating on wealth there.

725
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: So I mean, you have these hotlines getting flooded with calls,

726
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 1: and it's just it's just a mess. And since then,

727
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 1: I mean not to just gloss over a lot more history,

728
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 1: but we have to. Since then, the Welfare Queen, even

729
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: though she has been largely debunked, I think in in

730
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: uh Today's commentary, but her specter is still there. The

731
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: animous behind it is absolutely still there. Yeah, because it's

732
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: an easy way. It's almost like an easy way to

733
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: disengage yourself or dissociate yourself from your racism, because you

734
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: can be like, well, no, it's not that I'm racist.

735
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 1: It's just that these welfare queens who happen to be

736
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: black women are abusing the system. And that is an

737
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 1: especially potent um argument to make too low income white people. Yeah,

738
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: because it plays on all of those racialized fears. So

739
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: you see, you know, repeated time and again. Um. And

740
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: in sociological terms, the welfare queen has become what's called

741
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: a narrative script or presumed common knowledge that most welfare

742
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: recipients are women, even though in reality, most welfare recipients

743
00:52:19,560 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: or children. Um. And they're specifically black, single women, and

744
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,399
Speaker 1: that this whole situation must be the product of their

745
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: moral failing and they're you know, de incentivized work ethic

746
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,000
Speaker 1: or non existent work ethic. Yeah, lie down, progressive era,

747
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 1: You're done. And that's what you still hear. Uh. And

748
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm I don't remember it directly because if you remember

749
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: every Donald Trump quote, your mind had just turned to garbage. Um.

750
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: But in researching this piece of course he's played on

751
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: this rhetoric. I mean, he's he hasn't used the words

752
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: welfare quam, but he doesn't have to um hashtag dog

753
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: whistle politics. But he does talk about, you know, entitlements

754
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: and de incentivizing work. We're going to get people back

755
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 1: to work because people want to some people want to work.

756
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: And before we wrap up, though, we do want to

757
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: hop back to a couple of realities for single moms

758
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: today on public assistance, and the fact of the matter

759
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 1: is it is tough. There's nothing queenly about it. And

760
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: fraud does exist, but it's not as simple as fraud

761
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: only being perpetuated by recipients. You have a whole system

762
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: set up. Yeah, well so, I mean, speaking of that fraud,

763
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: tant fraud is there's like a two percent max fraud rate,

764
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 1: and across the board, it's likelier to be instigated by

765
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 1: the providers rather than the actual recipients of UH public assistance.

766
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: And a lot of that is not necessarily people being

767
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: like mo, I'm going to game the government my employer,

768
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: but rather like just deficiencies in the system itself. Yeah,

769
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 1: and being overwhelmed. I mean, you have case workers who

770
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 1: are probably overloaded, you have mismanagement going on, and especially

771
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: in terms of Medicaid and Medicare, you do have a

772
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: lot of provider fraud happening. Um and uh. If we

773
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 1: look though at the situation, the income situation for single

774
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: mothers on public assistance, on average, Bureau of Labor Statistics

775
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 1: data find that just families in general receiving public assistant

776
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: spend uhty two dollars a year, very precise, compared to

777
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 1: sixty six thousand for families not on public assistance. And

778
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: The Atlantic pointed that out, um to sort of settle

779
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: the score on this idea that, oh, you know, the

780
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: entitlement programs are allowing these families to of high on

781
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 1: the hog and buy lobster. Yeah, like I didn't buy

782
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,279
Speaker 1: a new PlayStation, and all these people on welfare buying

783
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 1: PlayStations left and right, and lobsters to put on top

784
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 1: of the PlayStation because is the decoration. It's delicious. But

785
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 1: if we talk about lobster, families receiving assistant spent about

786
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 1: a third less on food, half as much on housing,

787
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: and sixty less on entertainment. So we've got some debunking

788
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 1: going on there. And if we look at snap benefits

789
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 1: the food Stamps program. Over nine of that money assist

790
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households,

791
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: not able bodied, working age Americans who just choose not

792
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: to work. Yeah, and and so I mean, just imagine

793
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 1: the massive damage it's being done by us like wilfully

794
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: buying into these stereotypes and these narratives about who is

795
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 1: on public assistance and how the system is like rife

796
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,800
Speaker 1: with welfare queens who are gaining it. I mean, again,

797
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: that's not to say that fraud doesn't happen, but it's

798
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: in such a minority of cases it's almost non existent. Yeah,

799
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: and just how degrading it is to, you know, point

800
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:19,040
Speaker 1: your finger at a group of people and say, like,

801
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: you are categorically lazy and have no desire to improve

802
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: your station in life. While kids raised um in public

803
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: assistance situations are statistically likelier to themselves receive public assistance

804
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 1: later in life, many many many of them do not.

805
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: They end up becoming middle class citizens. Because you do

806
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 1: have really hard working single mothers who are not making

807
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: anything but are making it work for their kids. And

808
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: that's why during the Obama administration it has been such

809
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,280
Speaker 1: a big deal the number of times, especially in big

810
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: speeches such as State of the Union. Addrest is that

811
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: he's called out the contributions, the positive contributions of single

812
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: mothers because for so long they've been really demonized in

813
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,839
Speaker 1: our society because of all of this stuff that we've

814
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 1: been talking about. Well, and that's why all of the

815
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: traps and strange loopholes, uh in these systems, that's why

816
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: they're so heartbreaking, because you know, you do read stories

817
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: about mothers who were at least getting by and able

818
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: to buy their kids supplies to go back to school

819
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: and things like that, until they hit some weird you know,

820
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: public assistance loophole and they were made homeless. Because kids

821
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: who grow up homeless they do perform a lot poorer

822
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 1: in school, and so that does set up just a

823
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 1: really unfortunate cycle for a lot of families. Yeah, and

824
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: and again, UM to any social workers listening, Uh, hopefully

825
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: we're not conflating too much the case worker situation under

826
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: h A f d C versus today with temporary assistance

827
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 1: for needy families. And I'm curious to know more about

828
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: how individual cases are handled UM and regulations about who

829
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: receives it and please help us fill in the gap, yeah,

830
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: and whether it's gotten any better, because I mean, it's

831
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: just as I was telling Caroline before we started recording

832
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: this episode, this was such a puzzle to put together

833
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 1: because it's such a big system. There is not a

834
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: lot of clear information, and it's so politicized as well

835
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: that it's challenging to find objective information as well. So

836
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 1: I mean, we're relying a lot on academic sources as

837
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: much as possible for this, but hopefully this is shed

838
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: at least some historical light on today's situation. So with that,

839
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 1: we want to hear all of your thoughts and feedback

840
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 1: how this resonated with you, whether you have, yeah, any

841
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: information that can help us sort of fill in, uh,

842
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: this broad conversation that we've just had. Mom Stuff at

843
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is our email address. You

844
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages

845
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 1: on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to

846
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: share with you when we come right back from a

847
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: quick break and now back to the show. All right,

848
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: I've got a letter here from Adriana, subject line the

849
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: unicorns with lots of exclamation points. Okay, she says, thank you,

850
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: so much for covering this topic. I too was obsessed

851
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: with unicorns when I was little, and maybe still am.

852
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: I think for me it had a lot to do

853
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: with the unicorns and Fantasia you mentioned in the episode.

854
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: The little flying horses were also the best. I mean,

855
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: who wouldn't want to fly through a rainbow with them? Anyways,

856
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 1: I promise I'm not the type of person who corrects

857
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: people all the time, but I did notice that you

858
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: made a small slip up in Greek goddess names. Side note,

859
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: a lot of you guys also are crazy see about

860
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: Greek mythology and have written in to tell us this,

861
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: and you're so right. We just we just got a

862
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: little mixed up. And and Adriana is like really nice

863
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 1: and sympathetic about it. She says, you mentioned that Athena

864
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: was the virginal goddess of the hunt, when actually it

865
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: is Artemis. Athena is the goddess of wisdom, which, fun fact,

866
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 1: is why there is a bust of her over the

867
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: doorway of the Dough Library at Yust Berkeley. In the

868
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: Roman tradition, Artemis is known as Diana. You were right

869
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 1: that she's associated with deer, and not only because she

870
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: hunted them in the forest. In Ovid's Metamorphoses, a man

871
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: named acting On is hunting with his hounds in the

872
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: woods when he discovers Diana and her nymphs bathing. This

873
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: is a site no man is supposed to see, because

874
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 1: Diana is a virgin goddess. She notices him watching and

875
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 1: furious turns him into a deer as punishment for spying

876
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 1: on her. He runs away and is later killed by

877
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: his own hounds. Acting On's transformation into a deer. It's

878
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: really beautifully described in the poem and I definitely recommend

879
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: reading it. I like the Ted Hughes translate and myself.

880
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the work you do on

881
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: this podcast. I very much enjoyed this episode. I just

882
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: finished a master's and Renaissance literature at Cambridge, and let

883
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: me tell you, there are a lot of weird and

884
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: sometimes scary unicorn illustrations and Renaissance manuscripts and printed books. Well,

885
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: we're definitely gonna have to google some of those, Adriana,

886
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: so thank you so much for writing in. And I

887
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,160
Speaker 1: got a little here from Cynthia about our Lisa Frank episode,

888
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: who writes I grew up in a single mother household

889
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,480
Speaker 1: and lived in hand me downs from friends and relatives

890
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: deep into my high school years. That's made going to

891
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 1: a school full of upper middle class kids extraordinarily challenging. However,

892
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: despite the fact that we were always on money and

893
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 1: rarely looked stylish or cool, our mother always tried to

894
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: give my siblings and me small things to help make

895
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: us enjoy our childhood in any way possible. Welcome super affordable, crazy,

896
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: psychedelic Lisa Frank during the height of her empire. I

897
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,080
Speaker 1: was in junior high school and, just like all the

898
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: other girls and a few boys in my class, absolutely

899
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 1: upset with all things Lisa, and because of how affordable

900
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: the stickers and folders were, this was something I could

901
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: finally be a part of and I felt so cool.

902
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: I had all the folders, notebooks, the racers, and stickers.

903
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: My favorite were the Cheetahs. I even got ahold of

904
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 1: a binder at some point as a birthday gift. I

905
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: created a vast sticker collection, which my classmates and I

906
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: traded during recess, and I became the go to Lisa

907
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: Frank gal. It was awesome. Lisa Frank patterns said a

908
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 1: way of making me truly happy at first gaze happiness

909
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: and childhood in a sense or things that I didn't

910
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: really have as a kid. But whenever I flipped through

911
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: my Lisa Frank folders and notebooks and the carefully placed

912
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,800
Speaker 1: the racers on my desk that I never used, I

913
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: felt happy and just like any other kid, listening to

914
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: your episode had me laughing with all the puns and jokes,

915
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 1: but also super nostalgic for a time in my life

916
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:50,919
Speaker 1: when despite the challenges, I could escape on the back

917
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 1: of a rainbow unicorn and visit trippy dolphins. Well, thank

918
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 1: you so much, Cynthia, and thanks to everybody who's written

919
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: into us Moms stuff at how stuff where dot com

920
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: is our email address and for links to all of

921
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: our social media as well as all of our blogs,

922
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: videos and podcasts with our sources. So you can learn

923
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: more about women in welfare, head on over to stuff

924
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You dot com. For more on this

925
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics, visit how Stuff Works dot com.